Joe Rogan Experience #2479 - Bob Lazar & Luigi Vendittelli — Full Transcript

0:53

one who put the film together. You

0:55

figured it all out and first of all,

0:57

what was the technology that you guys

0:59

used to recreate everything you guys

1:01

did?

1:01

>> I just want to say there's there's about

1:04

10% AI in the film, but there's 90%

1:08

Blender. And that's actually handmade

1:10

CGI. So, everything you see is all

1:14

handmade.

1:16

And even the de-aging of Bob Lazar, we

1:19

scanned Bob, we went over to his house,

1:22

scanned his face, took a process of

1:24

de-aging him through that, then creating

1:27

a digital model of Bob in different

1:30

ages, and then placing him in the

1:33

environment. And then

1:35

in some instances at the very end, we

1:38

perfected or kind of put a bow on it

1:41

with a little touch of AI, but the whole

1:44

thing is handmade. So, the craft, the

1:46

environment, the Papoose Lake, the the

1:49

the facility, the equipment, and the

1:51

people were all made. And some of the

1:54

people are actually real actors that we

1:55

put in there. So, it's not It's It's a

1:58

There's One of the guys that is Barry in

2:00

the film is a guy called Luis Martinez

2:03

that's been working with me for the past

2:04

10 years and he laughs at it cuz he

2:06

says, "I can't believe I'm Barry." You

2:08

know, so Does he look anything like

2:09

Barry? Actually, he does. He does.

2:12

That's why we chose him. Yeah, yeah.

2:14

Where is Barry The actual Barry now?

2:17

I don't know, you know, I kind of

2:19

thought at one point after all this

2:21

happened, we would at least hear from

2:24

one of those guys.

2:25

But, uh I never heard from anybody after

2:28

you know, after the the initial

2:31

the release of all the information,

2:33

yeah.

2:34

It seems like Well, I don't know. If

2:37

people are able to keep secrets for this

2:39

long, it's got to be very difficult to

2:41

just blurt it out. Like, if you know, if

2:44

you're holding on to a secret for 20,

2:46

30, 40 years, you're

2:49

It's like I guess these guys were

2:51

lifers, though. Yeah. I mean, they spent

2:53

most of their time there. They spent at

2:55

least 2 weeks at a time and had 1 week

2:57

off. So, they stayed at the base. I

2:59

mean, these guys were hardcore.

3:01

I had just come in on the project. You

3:04

know, so um

3:07

I don't know. I don't know what happened

3:08

to him. I'd love to know.

3:10

I suspect that Dennis Mariani, my

3:12

supervisor, died. I've seen people track

3:14

him down, you know, all the way to point

3:16

to speaking to his family and they said,

3:18

"Yeah, he had some classified job out in

3:20

the desert or something." And they

3:21

showed me his gravestone and stuff. So,

3:24

you know, at least

3:25

they were able to track him down, but

3:27

I've never heard of any leads on Barry

3:29

or Renee or anybody like that.

3:31

What is it like seeing the recreation of

3:35

it in a film? Cuz I mean, it essentially

3:39

it was your

3:43

direction, for lack of a better word,

3:45

your description of it, you you telling

3:48

them exactly every everything was laid

3:50

out. And then once they recreated it,

3:52

what is that feeling like when you watch

3:54

it?

3:56

Well, the final product is absolutely

4:00

mind-blowing because as I've said to

4:02

Luigi, it looks like you guys downloaded

4:05

that out of my brain.

4:07

I mean

4:09

you know, you can describe something a

4:10

hundred times and until you actually

4:12

make a a picture, it doesn't become

4:14

clear.

4:16

But, uh you know, this took years. I

4:18

think it was like five and a half years

4:21

from when I first met Luigi and he said,

4:24

"Yeah, I can do this." And um

4:26

the quality kept improving to where he

4:28

started showing me pictures and I went,

4:30

"Jesus, that's That's really it. It's

4:33

not really it. It's really it." And uh

4:37

I mean, it it blew me away.

4:40

Later on, he showed me a 3D environment

4:43

where I could put goggles on and move

4:44

around inside. I mean, that made the

4:46

hair stand up on my arms. It was It was

4:48

unbelievable. So, um

4:51

I don't know if I could really describe

4:53

how that made me feel, but it felt like

4:55

I was teleported back there. And that's,

4:58

you know, that's when really

5:00

I developed an admiration for Luigi's

5:02

talent. I said, you know, I'm behind

5:04

this and uh flew out to Canada a couple

5:07

times. I didn't have much to do with the

5:08

film other than

5:11

I guess a couple times going out there

5:12

and going, "No, that's right. That's the

5:14

wrong color. Move this here. Do that."

5:16

And uh but those guys spent over 3 years

5:19

working on it. And um

5:22

you know, what they And they never

5:24

showed me anything, you know, I'd speak

5:26

to Luigi, you know, a couple times a

5:28

month and you know, he'd always say,

5:30

"You

5:31

Oh my god, you won't believe this." I

5:33

said, "Yeah,

5:34

show me."

5:35

Yeah, no, it's not It's not done yet.

5:37

So, I really didn't get it to to see

5:40

anything till close to the end, but when

5:42

I did, um

5:45

really, without trying to sound

5:46

dramatic, it really put tears in my eyes

5:49

going that it

5:50

that's it. That's it. You You did it.

5:52

Just stop. It's perfect. Why? So, I had

5:55

the pleasure of watching the movie with

5:56

you and sitting there with you where

5:58

there was a bunch of times in the movie

6:00

you're like

6:02

Yeah, yeah.

6:03

>> You could tell. Yeah. It is just like

6:05

>> I could feel that place. I I could feel

6:08

it watching that movie. It It It just It

6:12

really freaks me out because

6:14

as I've said before, it's not like what

6:16

I saw. It's It's exactly what I saw. Um

6:24

It's It's perfect. It's just like Luigi

6:26

was at S-4 with a camera. So, um It's

6:29

very

6:29

>> It was. It's a It's a very unique

6:31

documentary in that regard. And And

6:33

watching it with you, seeing you

6:35

experience this thing, and then me

6:37

trying to imagine what it's like for

6:40

you.

6:42

You're this young scientist who gets

6:45

brought in on this thing without much

6:47

explanation, and then all of a sudden

6:48

you're confronted by this craft. And you

6:51

you know, the way it's broken down in

6:53

the film and you get to actually see you

6:57

viewing this thing and being in the

6:58

presence of this thing for the first

7:00

time. It's just I could just only

7:03

imagine

7:04

what that must have been like for you.

7:07

And it's so weird to watch you watch it

7:10

again and see your wheels spin. You're

7:12

like, "What the happened [laughter]

7:14

to my life, man? Right. What did they do

7:17

to me? What did they

7:19

What did they

7:20

make me experience? Like, what the hell?

7:25

Yeah, I

7:26

I really can't fill in the blanks there.

7:28

It's uh

7:29

I I want to just say that there was a

7:31

time when Bob got angry at me a lot cuz

7:35

I wouldn't show him. And he was like,

7:37

"Come on, show me." And I said, "It's

7:39

not ready yet. I don't want to show you

7:41

something." But, at a certain point, we

7:43

had to.

7:44

And Bob started remembering more stuff

7:49

Yeah, yeah, that's true. Mhm. It It

7:52

really made a big difference when he

7:54

when he showed me some things and, you

7:56

know, walking down the corridor here and

7:58

turn, "Oh, stop. Wait, there's another

8:00

door there." I mean, it was like I was

8:02

going back into the facility and uh

8:05

really brought I mean, actually seeing

8:07

it again, uh really brought some things

8:09

back that I that I had completely

8:11

forgotten about. So, that

8:14

you know. Well, what's really

8:15

fascinating is

8:17

for people that don't know your story,

8:19

you came up with the story, you talked

8:21

to George Knapp in Was it '89?

8:24

'88. '88, '89, somewhere in there, yeah.

8:27

So, late '80s, you essentially told the

8:30

exact same story all these years. And

8:34

then

8:35

within the last, you know, 9, 10 years,

8:40

we've started to get all these reports.

8:43

There was the New York Times story,

8:45

there was the GoFast video and the FLIR

8:48

video, and all these videos that show a

8:50

craft that's moving the way you

8:53

described this sport model moving.

8:56

Right. Which kind of freaked a lot of

8:58

people out with the way it rotated and

9:00

turned.

9:00

>> Rotate Yeah, it does the belly roll,

9:02

faces at the bottom towards where it's

9:04

want to go, and then it it takes off and

9:07

yeah. It's exactly how you described all

9:10

those years ago, which is really

9:13

crazy.

9:15

Well, that's I mean, that's the way it

9:17

was. But, it's just It's It's crazy

9:20

because you had this story way, way, way

9:23

back then and everybody's like, "This

9:25

guy's just making things up. This is all

9:27

cockamamie bullshit."

9:29

And then you see those videos from these

9:31

fighter jets and you're like, "Whoa.

9:34

Wait a minute. This is It's moving the

9:36

exact same way he described. It's doing

9:37

what he described in 1989."

9:41

Yeah.

9:41

>> [snorts]

9:42

>> Yeah.

9:43

Um

9:45

Time to take a drink. Cheers.

9:46

>> [laughter]

9:47

>> Cheers. Cuz it's so weird. I can't I

9:49

mean, I've had so many conversations

9:51

with people. And you know, one of the

9:53

things that comes up is uh do you think

9:55

Bob Lazar's telling the truth?

9:58

And I say, "Look, I don't know. There's

9:59

no way I can know, but he doesn't seem

10:01

like he's lying. I've been around a lot

10:03

of liars."

10:04

>> Look, nobody can know unless you're

10:06

there.

10:07

You know, I'm the biggest skeptic of

10:09

all. Although, if you look at Wikipedia,

10:11

it says I'm a conspiracy

10:13

theorist or something.

10:14

>> Yeah, conspiracy theorist. I think it

10:15

says I'm a far-right podcaster. Yeah,

10:17

all right. I mean,

10:18

>> [laughter]

10:19

>> yeah, it's crazy. But,

10:21

dog, I lost my train of thought

10:23

now.

10:23

Well, they that that if if you if like

10:27

basically are you a conspiracy theorist?

10:29

No, you don't even look at this stuff.

10:30

>> Well, you've had if you have a lie, you

10:33

have one lie. It's amazing cuz you've

10:36

told the same one for all these years.

10:38

>> It's a pretty detailed lie. It's also

10:40

not normal. Like, normally when people

10:43

lie, they get bored with the same lie

10:45

and then they come up with another lie

10:47

and then there's some other story.

10:48

There's some You catch them. Eventually,

10:50

you catch them. There's some cockamamie

10:52

new thing that they come up with and

10:54

it's the type of people that are that

10:56

deceptive. I mean, it's just it doesn't

10:58

make sense. It doesn't fit the standard

11:00

model of someone

11:02

>> Well, there are other people involved

11:03

with it. I mean, uh you know, this is

11:05

where the first time Gene Huff finally

11:08

is on film, you know, cuz when I had the

11:10

you know, the test flight information,

11:13

um it was one of the not one of the was

11:16

the first person I told about that and

11:18

uh you know, we were all able to go out

11:20

and and see it and so everybody knew

11:23

that I wasn't crazy.

11:25

Um

11:26

it was And then also all the

11:28

confirmation that you were being

11:31

with. That you know, when you're in the

11:32

gym, they would show up and open up your

11:35

lock car doors and open up your trunk

11:37

and leave it there so you'd go out there

11:38

and see it.

11:39

They'd go to your house when you weren't

11:41

there. Yeah, they were even Right, they

11:44

were even following George Knapp and and

11:46

uh

11:47

I mean, all of us. Anybody that had

11:49

anything to do with it at that time. Uh

11:51

they were keeping eyes on. It was uh Not

11:54

just eyes, but a lot of intimidation

11:55

tactics. Just letting you know

11:58

letting you know that they could touch

11:59

you. Yeah.

12:01

To I I've really worked for decades to

12:03

push this out of my mind. So, it's

12:04

always tough to bring it back, you know,

12:07

and and talk about it. And it's Yeah,

12:09

although it might be funny now, it

12:11

wasn't funny then at all. Um it was a

12:14

really stressful time.

12:16

And still

12:17

is a very stressful thing for me. I know

12:19

it's so many years ago, but do you

12:22

remember the thought that came in your

12:25

mind when you realized that it wasn't

12:28

ours?

12:31

Do I remember the thought? Do you

12:32

remember the experience? Yeah, I

12:35

remember I remember the feeling.

12:36

>> Of recognize cuz initially, you saw the

12:39

American flag sticking out.

12:40

>> saw the American flag when I first went

12:42

in it the first time I went in through

12:45

the hangar door instead of around the

12:46

back, um

12:49

you know, I slid my hand across it, saw

12:50

the American flag and I thought, "Oh my

12:52

god, you know, this explains the UFO

12:55

nuts, you know?" Um It's ours. Yeah,

12:58

this is ours. This is a new top secret

13:00

fighter. We can't with a new propulsion

13:02

system and uh

13:04

you know, it it explains everything

13:06

because I never believed in flying

13:07

saucers. I thought people were nuts.

13:10

Um

13:12

But, when they started reviewing

13:13

everything with me, they were trying I

13:16

was trying to replace somebody or they

13:18

were trying to use me to replace

13:20

somebody as quick as possible.

13:22

And um

13:24

they had two directives.

13:27

One was to

13:28

Directive one was to duplicate the

13:30

technology with available material at

13:32

any cost, which is exact verbatim what

13:35

it was, and directive two was to be able

13:39

to disable this technology at a distance

13:42

at any cost.

13:44

And

13:46

you know, once you start thinking about

13:47

that,

13:49

Wait, don't you guys know how the thing

13:50

you built worked? And it's kind of like

13:53

they left that out. That this [laughter]

13:56

this By the way, this isn't ours. And

13:58

Barry is the guy that filled me in

14:00

going, "No, no, no. This is an alien

14:03

craft and

14:05

we need to figure out how this works.

14:08

Look at the technology here. I mean,

14:10

this is decades, light years ahead of

14:13

where we are.

14:14

And uh

14:16

I I it it it was a

14:19

it was a shock, really, to me. I

14:22

remember going home that night and just

14:25

laying in bed and reviewing everything

14:27

that everybody said that day. And uh

14:32

I really don't remember

14:34

how I felt

14:36

the following days, but I it was just a

14:38

different It was just a different

14:41

feeling. Like the world just changed.

14:43

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it was

14:46

I don't know. I really can't put it into

14:48

words. Well, I couldn't imagine. I

14:50

couldn't imagine what that experience is

14:51

like. And it's also very strange that

14:53

they would bring you in and not

14:55

specifically state to you that this is

14:58

not ours.

14:59

They just bring you in and just give you

15:02

a directive. This is your what you were

15:04

trying to accomplish. Well, they gave me

15:06

the they gave me a bunch of briefings.

15:07

Everything was moving at a very fast

15:10

pace and I don't know why. Um

15:12

I think I mentioned in the movie

15:14

uh

15:15

right prior to I got there, there

15:18

there were Russians involved in it. You

15:20

know, from what I can ascertain, there

15:22

was an exchange of information and then

15:25

we discovered something, something of

15:27

great importance. And of of course,

15:30

kicked the Russians out and just held

15:32

onto that information ourselves. And uh

15:36

there was kind of a knowledge vacuum

15:38

there. There was also an accident and I

15:41

was told I was replacing someone

15:43

uh

15:45

that was injured. I believe he actually

15:47

died. Um There's no record of who this

15:50

person was or has anybody ever tried to

15:52

figure out it out?

15:53

>> I don't know. I don't have any names. I

15:55

just know that Barry told me, you know,

15:57

I'm replacing somebody that he used to

15:58

work with and he was without a lab

16:01

partner for a while. So, when I came in

16:03

there, um How long's a while?

16:06

I don't know, but I mean, that brings up

16:08

a good point.

16:10

First of all, we're dealing with alien

16:13

or another civilization technology,

16:15

whether it, you know, it's from another

16:17

dimension, another time, another planet.

16:20

I mean, who really knows? Um

16:23

So,

16:26

I'll eventually get to answer the

16:27

question here, but uh

16:29

wouldn't you think this place would be

16:31

more like the lunar receiving lab where

16:33

everything is white? You know, so you

16:35

can see a speck of dust. There's

16:38

everything is sterile.

16:40

People are being extremely careful with

16:42

what they're doing, but you're not

16:44

seeing that.

16:45

This is in now something akin to an

16:48

aircraft hangar in the middle of the

16:50

desert. There's dust on everything.

16:53

People are taking everything

16:54

nonchalantly. There's a There's a

16:57

freaking poster about the thing, you

17:00

know, a there here poster there. Um

17:02

Thank you, Luigi, for getting me that.

17:04

We got to figure out a place for that.

17:06

We'll put it in here somewhere. It's

17:07

awesome. I mean, but but I mean, they

17:09

went to the trouble of making a poster.

17:10

They actually I think right here. That's

17:12

a good place.

17:13

>> That right there. That's a good spot

17:14

right there. Um but they uh I mean, they

17:17

actually cut one of the amplifiers out

17:19

of the craft. So, that my point is

17:21

>> This is in the film as well. You could

17:22

see.

17:23

>> Yeah, but my my point is it's so

17:25

nonchalant

17:27

at this point. When they first had it,

17:30

it had to be at that level. And they

17:33

became so used to it,

17:36

so familiar with it

17:38

that, you know, to them it just became

17:41

like another

17:43

you know, fighter aircraft or something

17:45

from another country. So, it's uh

17:48

It must have been there a long time as

17:51

what my point is.

17:53

Because Look, as soon as you have

17:55

something that unique,

18:00

you don't let it just sit there in a

18:02

hangar and be exposed to the environment

18:05

and have security people walking by and

18:07

people touching it. I mean, it's in an

18:09

isolated, sealed, secure environment and

18:13

they were past that. So, I think it had

18:16

been there for a decade or decades.

18:19

A long time. And these guys were

18:22

intimately familiar with it, not afraid

18:24

of it, you know, and

18:26

knew what was going on. So, they

18:28

essentially had gotten just completely

18:29

acclimated to the fact that this craft

18:31

exists, that it was there, and there had

18:34

been relatively little progress as far

18:37

as figuring it out and figuring out what

18:40

it does and how to recreate it. So, it

18:42

just kind of sat there. And so, I think

18:45

they were making very little progress

18:47

and I think they kept going over the

18:49

same road again and again and they

18:52

probably had other experts there and

18:55

just didn't and I think the reason I got

18:57

hired is cuz I was a guy out in left

19:00

field that didn't necessarily follow

19:02

what was going on. I mean, the biggest

19:04

distractors in the

19:06

in in

19:08

you know,

19:09

to me, anyway, in the story, um are

19:13

other scientists, other physicists

19:15

going, "Well, they would have hired me

19:17

because I'm the top guy in the field."

19:18

Yeah, you you probably are, but I think

19:21

they hired plenty of you guys and you

19:23

just kept going down the same road and

19:25

didn't do anything. I think they were

19:26

looking for somebody that just would

19:28

have some radical idea and just to push

19:31

the,

19:31

you know, the project forward because

19:33

everything had stalled when I got there.

19:35

And it was I think they were just in a

19:38

desperate move to make some progress.

19:40

One of the things you talked about in

19:41

the first podcast that I think is really

19:43

important is that the only way for

19:45

science to really progress is that

19:48

these various

19:51

scientists have to be able to

19:53

communicate and you have to be able to

19:55

share ideas and you have to be able to

19:57

collaborate but that's not how this was

20:00

run because it was so top secret

20:02

everything was compartmentalized.

20:04

Like the metallurgist weren't talking to

20:06

the propulsion people who weren't

20:08

talking to if there were biologics

20:11

experts like everybody was

20:13

>> Super frustrating because I I think I I

20:16

don't remember exactly where that

20:18

started again it's 40 years ago but I

20:20

think it started with uh

20:23

with the seats

20:25

and uh no it start it started with

20:27

actual skin of the craft because

20:29

everything looked like it was made from

20:30

the same material

20:32

and I wanted some information

20:35

um

20:36

about you know the skin the

20:38

superstructure of the craft and they

20:40

said no that's that's restricted what's

20:42

you know we we need a reason for you to

20:45

I I just want to see

20:47

if everything is exactly the same

20:49

material and what I call the seats in

20:51

the craft I still don't know if they

20:53

were the seats but they might be I think

20:56

it'd be hilarious if they were actually

20:57

something else um

21:00

but I wanted some information on those

21:02

and that was restricted information too

21:04

there were other groups working on that

21:05

so they compartmentalized stuff so much

21:08

there was no exchange of information

21:10

between any groups I mean you could

21:12

submit a written response that your

21:16

supervisor in my case Dennis would have

21:17

to carry over and they would have to

21:19

approve and you know you'd get a two or

21:22

three line response from

21:24

you know the other group but it's it's

21:26

just that's not how science works

21:28

science works on the free exchange of

21:30

information and it they they were just

21:34

killing themselves with security and it

21:38

would it was really frustrating it was

21:40

terribly frustrating. So was this a

21:43

function of security people people that

21:45

are concentrating on talk top secret

21:47

that don't truly understand how

21:49

collaborative science works?

21:51

>> that's it right there you can stop right

21:53

there they had no idea how that works.

21:55

>> Because it stands to reason that

21:57

whatever that thing was made out of

22:01

probably in some way interacts with the

22:05

propulsion system and whatever controls

22:08

that are in it that this material has to

22:12

be particularly unique. Exactly that's

22:15

exactly my point and I suspected the

22:18

material was an electric. You know what

22:20

an electric is?

22:21

>> No. Okay you know like a magnet

22:24

a permanent magnet is like

22:27

you know it's a magnet it's forever it's

22:29

a magnet it has a magnetic field an

22:32

electric is a material that has a

22:35

permanent static field to it.

22:38

A static electric field to it and

22:41

I strongly suspected that's that the

22:45

craft was made out of an electric and I

22:47

was not because again that's the

22:50

material science guys I was not allowed

22:52

to connect that to but

22:55

that's so important to connect it to the

22:58

propulsion system and how the propulsion

23:00

system uh interacts with the amplifier

23:03

of the emitters and I just I

23:05

I wasn't allowed you know the

23:07

information I needed so it was uh

23:12

I don't know it it it was self-defeating

23:15

is what it was.

23:16

>> It seems like they were treating it like

23:18

a fighter jet or automobile like in an

23:21

automobile you have the outer area the

23:25

shell of the car you have the doors the

23:28

skins the hood the roof all that stuff

23:31

which is meant but then you have the

23:32

propulsion system which is the engine

23:34

and the transmission and the tires and

23:36

the wheels and the suspension

23:38

but they're all not connected they're

23:41

connected cuz they're bolted together

23:43

but they have different functions I

23:45

think the idea the concept at least is

23:48

as I'm gathering from you is that this

23:50

thing all worked as a cohesive unit.

23:53

>> Right with no physical connection

23:56

between

23:57

you know between the subsystems.

24:00

And all of it made out of the same

24:02

material.

24:04

At least on the outside at least on the

24:06

outside all made of the same material

24:08

and the other crafts all had the same

24:12

power plant in them.

24:13

So that brings to mind you know like uh

24:17

like a GM plant that makes a car with a

24:20

Chevy 350 and makes you know a dozen

24:23

different models to it.

24:24

>> Right. So that makes you think about boy

24:27

is there a a factory making these things

24:30

and

24:32

you know your brain can just wander off

24:34

in directions but I tried to stick with

24:36

just the technology. Um

24:39

Did you know who the metallurgist were?

24:42

The people that were

24:42

>> saw I saw them you know I know them and

24:45

Barry we'd go to the lunch room Barry

24:47

would point them out you know And you

24:49

weren't allowed to communicate with them

24:50

at all? Oh hell no you have a a lab

24:53

partner which might in in uh

24:56

my case it was Barry and you're you have

24:59

you're allowed to talk to your lab

25:00

partner

25:01

but you can't talk to any other group

25:04

that has to go through a written request

25:06

has to go to your um supervisor and

25:09

he'll bring it over to them and they'll

25:11

bring it back and so on and so forth but

25:14

uh

25:14

it's it's ridiculous that

25:16

that that it slows down any progress you

25:19

might be making.

25:21

Which is why they were probably stalled

25:22

out for decades.

25:23

>> Yeah. Did you ever expressly

25:28

communicate to them that you

25:32

you theorized at least that this all

25:34

could be connected that there's there's

25:36

something about the way the metal works

25:39

Oh we all knew that.

25:41

We all knew that.

25:43

Because we'd get requests from other

25:45

you know from other groups and you could

25:47

tell they're desperate just like we are

25:51

and and and fighting against the system.

25:53

>> What kind of requests would you get?

25:55

Just exactly what we found out you know

25:58

what where is the energy being

26:00

transferred here if the reactor fires up

26:03

is there a field present around it or is

26:06

the field just absorbed into the emitter

26:09

and you can touch the

26:11

you know reactor itself and just little

26:14

things like that you know if uh

26:18

and actually that that was an important

26:19

thing when the reactor's operating

26:23

is it perfectly tuned the emitter to

26:26

where it removes all the energy from the

26:28

reactor and pushes it out the bottom and

26:30

the answer to that was no I remember

26:32

that as a specific request from you know

26:34

from one of the groups

26:36

the metallurgy group is the one that we

26:38

really wanted to hear from.

26:40

Uh

26:42

and some of the I didn't I don't even

26:43

know what some of the other groups were.

26:46

But How many groups were there? I

26:48

[snorts and clears throat] I don't know.

26:50

There were only 22 people there total

26:52

including myself.

26:54

So um

26:57

I I would like for you to tell Joe one

27:00

of the things that also interested me

27:02

cuz I built the craft is how the

27:04

waveguide worked with the ceiling in in

27:07

interior and how it blended

27:09

if you can explain there was no

27:10

telescopic

27:12

>> well this is why I we wanted to talk to

27:14

the metallurgist people. The uh

27:17

the reactor that sits on the bottom of

27:19

the craft has a little dome over it

27:22

and there's something that looks like a

27:23

pipe

27:24

that's slight you can lift it up and

27:27

take the reactor out put the reactor in

27:30

and lift it down but you know like a

27:33

antenna works on an old walkie-talkie it

27:36

has different sections

27:38

There it is there's from the video.

27:40

There it is yeah yeah okay

27:42

um

27:44

you can retract the pipe but there's no

27:46

sections and it doesn't get any thicker.

27:51

It just becomes smaller and if you look

27:54

underneath

27:56

um where the emitters hang down

27:58

um

27:59

they turn

28:02

it

28:02

and it it it doesn't buckle it's it's a

28:05

magical material this is

28:09

this is the basis of the craft is really

28:11

the material that it's made of it's a

28:14

it's amazing the way it works.

28:17

It just you can push it into a small

28:19

volume

28:21

and it doesn't change at all it doesn't

28:24

it doesn't get bigger physically

28:26

it's um

28:28

I don't really know how to describe

28:29

>> lifting the pipe up and down but it's

28:31

not going anywhere.

28:33

>> you had a big pipe

28:34

and you push it together it has to get

28:37

thicker Right. because the material has

28:39

to go somewhere this doesn't.

28:43

Okay it stays in exactly the same

28:46

dimensions it just becomes smaller.

28:49

How? Well

28:51

>> couldn't talk to the metallurgist so you

28:53

had no idea.

28:53

>> yeah but those guys knew how. They did

28:55

know how. I well Well they know it did

28:58

it. They know it they know it did it and

29:00

that's their job so I imagine they have

29:02

more information than I did.

29:04

Um

29:06

but that was fascinating.

29:08

It really was. And the uh

29:11

the waveguides that hold the emitters

29:13

they come down and the emitters can turn

29:15

and bend and the pipes bend and nothing

29:18

changes in them.

29:20

It's

29:22

and there's no wires or anything to make

29:27

the pipe bend

29:29

um

29:32

I'm I'm trying to relate it to something

29:34

but I can't think of anything to relate

29:36

it to.

29:38

Well one thing that you said that I I

29:39

also thought was fascinating there's no

29:41

seams so everything looks like it's 3D

29:43

printed.

29:44

>> Again right it comes down to the

29:45

material. Which at the time 3D printers

29:48

weren't real, right? They Yeah, at the

29:50

time that really confused me. I said,

29:53

"How did they build this?" It must have

29:54

been built

29:56

out of wax or something and then melted.

29:59

Um cuz you can't build anything without

30:01

seams. And then 3D printing came into

30:03

existence and you know, you can you

30:05

could build stuff from layers up. Um

30:09

That made sense.

30:11

I know, some sort of 3D printer or they

30:13

grew it uh

30:15

you know, a in some

30:18

It of course is not a crystal in

30:20

fashion, but um

30:24

I I don't know how that was fabricated,

30:26

but it was fabricated different than

30:27

anything that we have. I don't even

30:29

think it was 3D printed.

30:31

And so you never got any inkling or any

30:35

understanding of what the metal was,

30:38

what what what kind of an alloy, what it

30:40

consisted of?

30:43

All I can say it was cold to the touch

30:45

cuz the you know, when I when I touched

30:47

it, but um

30:48

I can't say it was a if it was a ceramic

30:51

or I say it was metal cuz it was cold.

30:54

Um Cuz it looks like metal. And this is

30:57

>> Yeah, it looks like metal. Does that

30:58

this is the Designs by Perry um

31:01

version of it. Does that How much does

31:03

that look like it? No, that's 100%.

31:05

That's it.

31:06

Yeah, that's that's

31:07

>> to have the the first ripple is supposed

31:10

to be black.

31:10

>> right. See? Yeah.

31:13

So, Luigi has gone over this so many

31:16

times. Yeah.

31:17

>> uh

31:18

the There's an insulator ring in there.

31:19

Jimmy, show what it looks like in the

31:21

film. If you could show one of the

31:23

images. I don't know.

31:24

I was pulling them off the trailer and I

31:25

don't

31:26

They might not They've been holding that

31:27

back

31:28

Yeah, on the trailer there's some shots.

31:31

>> Yeah, there's there's a ring around it

31:32

and we measured the voltage on the craft

31:35

and there was a a high voltage on it. Um

31:39

And above that ring, there is not

31:42

>> not a good shot. There's probably a

31:45

This is the original trailer. It's the

31:47

new trailer that would actually [snorts]

31:49

Yeah, that one there.

31:51

And you'll get to see it right

31:55

there.

31:57

Actually, right after this.

31:59

Well, it's actually before this, I

32:01

believe.

32:02

You're going to see the craft. And if

32:05

you see there's a black Right, there's

32:07

like a black line. Mhm. It's the first

32:10

ripple that's actually not metal.

32:13

Yeah, we call that the Yeah, there it

32:14

is. That's a good shot. We call We call

32:17

that the insulator ring because below

32:19

that there's a high voltage present on

32:21

the craft all the time and above that,

32:25

there isn't.

32:26

Um

32:28

I would imagine that

32:30

your life has like two completely

32:32

different chapters. It's before this and

32:36

after this.

32:37

Whereas like once you see it,

32:40

the whole rest of your life is now going

32:42

to be very different. And you are you

32:45

are in in its presence for how long did

32:47

you work there for?

32:49

I don't know, maybe 6 months or so. So,

32:51

for 6 months,

32:53

you're around this thing.

32:55

And I would imagine that's to occupy

32:57

your thoughts 24 hours a day.

32:59

Well, at the time it did, for sure. It's

33:02

actually three stages to the life. It's

33:04

before it, during, and after it.

33:08

Before it was just my life, during was

33:10

when it happened, and then the after

33:13

part of my life is almost trying to

33:14

dismiss it, you know, to just go on.

33:18

Yeah, you didn't talk about it for a

33:19

long time. I mean, you did the George

33:22

Knapp interviews, you talked about it a

33:23

little, you made some videos explaining

33:25

things and how things worked.

33:27

>> No, I don't I don't really like public

33:28

attention and uh I don't really like

33:32

doing interviews.

33:33

Um

33:35

As [snorts] you probably know.

33:36

>> [laughter]

33:39

>> You know, but um

33:41

I know there's people that thrive on

33:42

that stuff, but you know, uh

33:46

it

33:47

I felt privileged to be part of the

33:49

project, but it left me with an

33:51

insatiable appetite. Oh my god, I want

33:54

to know where it's gone. Like even when

33:57

I was there in the '80s, they were

33:59

talking about moving the project at that

34:02

time.

34:03

So,

34:04

um

34:06

I really I I'm dying to know, is it

34:09

still there? Has it moved on Did they

34:12

split it up and move it to other places?

34:15

Um

34:16

Yeah, I remember Barry talking about

34:18

moving it to

34:19

the South Pacific like in Kwajalein or

34:21

something, but they said the expenses

34:23

were so great, they couldn't do that,

34:25

but they wanted to be from everybody.

34:27

And the they hated the fact that it was

34:30

right alongside the highway in Nevada,

34:33

you know, by south of Area 51.

34:36

Uh but that's the best place they had at

34:38

the time and the most affordable.

34:40

And of course now with you know, budgets

34:43

being so tight,

34:45

who knows where it is. Who knows if

34:47

budgets are tight for this, though.

34:49

Yeah, that that's true. That's true. I

34:51

mean, they did say at whatever expense,

34:54

figure this out. Yeah, they were serious

34:56

about that. We don't really care what it

34:58

was.

34:59

>> It's like the original Apollo program.

35:01

You know, back in the Apollo program, if

35:03

they needed parts

35:06

and if somebody had something ordered

35:07

UPS or through the mail or whatever,

35:09

they had the authority to stop that

35:11

shipment to that other person and take

35:14

their stuff if they needed it. And you

35:16

know, they had an unlimited budget. I

35:17

mean, if you're working like that, you

35:19

could do anything.

35:21

And uh Or at least anything that's

35:24

currently possible with today's

35:25

technology. There you go. Which therein

35:28

lies the problem is that they're dealing

35:29

with something that's not possible with

35:32

like you couldn't build it from scratch

35:34

with American technology in 1989.

35:38

No, but that's what they wanted to do.

35:42

And really thinking about that now, I'm

35:45

not sure

35:46

I'm not [laughter] exactly sure these

35:48

guys should be allowed to do that. This

35:51

is really powerful technology and the

35:53

world has really changed. I mean, we

35:56

have a lot of crazy people doing stuff

35:58

now and nonsense

36:02

transmits through the population at the

36:03

speed of light.

36:05

And uh

36:07

you know, I don't know. This can be a

36:09

very powerful world-conquering

36:12

technology

36:13

and

36:15

Look, for 40 years, I think I've said

36:17

this before, for 40 years, all the

36:19

people in control of this information

36:21

have all agreed to keep it quiet. And

36:24

these aren't idiots.

36:27

These aren't idiots for 40 years. You

36:28

have a line of people that all have

36:31

agreed, "No, let's not say anything. No,

36:34

let's not say anything. No, let's not

36:35

say anything." There has to be a reason

36:37

why.

36:40

And if they all agreed to that,

36:43

maybe I'm the

36:46

>> [laughter]

36:47

>> No, really. Maybe they're right and

36:50

Maybe you would have figured that out if

36:52

you kept working for them. Yeah, I don't

36:54

know, but I'm increasingly thinking

36:56

I'm the one that made the mistake. Maybe

36:59

this is supposed to be

37:01

just kept quiet.

37:03

Yeah, but that doesn't ring true.

37:06

Cuz cuz I don't think it's ever healthy

37:09

if small groups of individuals have

37:13

information that would change our

37:15

understanding of where we are.

37:17

>> Yeah, there's that. There's that.

37:19

>> It's I don't think they

37:20

I don't think they deserve it. I don't

37:22

think it's right. I don't think it makes

37:23

any sense. I think you have an

37:25

obligation to

37:27

>> But really think about it. What if it's

37:28

something that's really dramatic?

37:32

Like how so? Like what do you think

37:33

would be like?

37:35

I don't know. May maybe I mean, what if

37:37

it's I'm not saying this is what it is,

37:40

but I mean, what if it's like

37:43

you know, like like we raise cows out in

37:46

a field and just feed them grass and

37:48

they're just going to be food.

37:50

What if it's something like that? What

37:52

if we're just like, you know, a a

37:53

population of creatures that are just to

37:56

be consumed in some way?

38:00

I don't know if we're to be consumed,

38:02

but I do think we are

38:04

>> Not physically consumed like eaten, but

38:06

I mean

38:07

>> I think we have a task.

38:09

And

38:10

I'm uh more and more convinced as time

38:13

goes on that we were engineered.

38:16

I don't think we came about as a normal

38:19

evolutionary process like all the other

38:20

animals.

38:21

>> I agree with that. I I really agree with

38:23

that, too. There's a lot of people that

38:24

think that. It just doesn't make sense

38:27

objectively. I mean, without seeming

38:29

like a cook

38:31

or someone who buys into conspiracy

38:32

theories, if you just look at all the

38:34

other biology on Earth, why is one so

38:39

uniquely able to manipulate its

38:41

environment, communicate instantaneously

38:44

at distance, do

38:46

can't really even exist in its

38:48

environment in most places that it lives

38:50

without clothes and shelter. We're a

38:53

weird animal.

38:54

We're we're very strange. Like we don't

38:56

seem to have normally adapted to our

38:59

environment with the way we've

39:01

completely controlled our environment

39:04

with air conditioning and electricity

39:07

and electronics and flight and travel.

39:10

We're so beyond everything else that

39:13

evolved. Whereas every other animal,

39:16

predator or prey, plant eater or meat

39:19

eater, all seems to cohesively exist

39:23

inside of its ecosystem. And then you

39:25

have us, which is like Yeah, yeah.

39:28

almost like an invasive species. Like

39:31

invasive species destroy ecosystems like

39:34

because they don't belong there. Mhm.

39:35

Well, that's kind of what we do. Like we

39:37

suck all the fish out of the ocean, we

39:39

pollute the rivers with our technology,

39:42

we, you know, mess up underground water

39:44

systems with fracking and drill we we're

39:47

like an invasive species in a lot of

39:50

ways. Yeah.

39:52

Yeah. We're really weird.

39:54

>> can't argue with that at all.

39:56

Yeah, this Tim Burchett thing. Um so Tim

39:59

Burchett has recently been talking about

40:01

this and the he can't talk about it

40:04

because it's classified, but he said

40:06

you'd be up at night with the things

40:08

that I've seen

40:09

if the things that I've seen have

40:10

released.

40:13

Yeah.

40:14

He said we just needed to close disclose

40:16

it all. I'm sick of it.

40:18

Uh I well I was briefed and I will tell

40:20

you this. I was briefed last week on an

40:22

issue or excuse me 2 weeks ago and it

40:24

would have set the earth on this country

40:26

would have become unglued. I think if

40:29

they would have heard all that I heard.

40:31

Well, this is what I was talking about.

40:33

If you know,

40:35

it's not like there's a bunch of space

40:37

brothers coming down going, "Oh, look

40:39

what we discovered, you know, here I

40:41

have some information and you know, uh

40:44

what if it's not that? What if all the

40:46

information is bad?"

40:49

But what would be bad? Like have you

40:50

ever thought about this? Tried to like

40:52

play it out to its natural conclusion?

40:54

Like what do you think the scenarios

40:55

could be that's bad? I don't know.

40:57

Everything that we're

40:59

we uh

41:00

Look, we view ourselves at the top of

41:02

the food chain.

41:04

What if we're not anywhere near there? I

41:07

don't think we are. Okay, what if we're

41:09

just consumables?

41:11

Well, I don't know if like chimpanzees

41:13

are consumables, right? They're not at

41:15

the top of the food chain either, right?

41:17

But No, but there's

41:19

I I would consider them substantially

41:22

lower than we are. Like my

41:25

my good friend that I John Lear who had

41:28

a bunch of crazy thoughts. I mean he

41:30

used to come over and tell us that uh

41:35

you know, on the moon there was a soul

41:36

sucker.

41:38

And when you

41:39

>> [laughter]

41:39

>> He did. He said this. You better give me

41:41

that bottle.

41:45

I want to drink before you explain this

41:47

one.

41:48

Um

41:49

>> Oh boy.

41:50

A soul sucker. Yeah.

41:52

>> John Lear was a eccentric individual.

41:54

I'm kind of sad I never met him.

41:57

Man, he he would

41:58

>> supporting evidence? He was a What?

42:01

Terence McKenna talking about the moon

42:03

being a soul catcher. Yeah, yeah. No,

42:05

and he'd give me pictures of these giant

42:08

antennas on the moon and

42:09

>> [clears throat]

42:10

>> um in fact, I'll tell you a story. He um

42:14

uh you know, he was an accomplished

42:16

pilot, had many world records and and

42:19

things of that, you know, um

42:21

part of the Lear family

42:23

that

42:24

his father invented autopilot, the

42:26

eight-track tape, all kinds of stuff.

42:28

And uh

42:30

but he John Lear was a loose cannon.

42:33

At the time

42:34

uh

42:37

he'd fly from Las Vegas and uh

42:41

you know, shuttle L-1011s which are

42:43

giant planes back and forth and he'd say

42:47

uh

42:48

you know, be kind of lonely. He goes,

42:50

"Hey, you want to go to Minneapolis

42:51

tonight?" He'd call me like at 9:00 at

42:53

night and say, "Well, no, not really.

42:56

Come on. Come on, fly with me." He'd

42:58

say, "Just put on a suit and you know,

43:01

come to so-and-so." And I'd go to

43:03

McCarran Airport and you know, go there.

43:05

And uh yeah, I'm going to tell everybody

43:08

you're

43:08

you know, an inspector from the FAA and

43:11

I'm like, "Okay,

43:12

great." You know, and I'd

43:14

get on the plane and he'd say, you know,

43:16

"Just act like you're you're going to

43:17

kick everyone's ass." So I'd

43:19

>> [laughter]

43:20

>> go on there and I'd sit in the they pull

43:22

down a jump seat behind the plane and

43:24

I'd just sit there looking at everybody

43:26

and

43:28

God, all this stuff is so illegal. And

43:30

um

43:31

you know, get on there and and fly and

43:34

you know, John would take and the

43:36

L-1011 was a

43:38

pretty advanced plane at the time. This

43:40

was in the '80s.

43:41

And you know, John would be smoking his

43:43

pipe, he'd take off, he'd put his feet

43:45

up and smoke his pipe and he'd fall

43:49

asleep. And I'd just be, you know,

43:51

hanging out there and you know, before

43:53

the plane would land, he'd just, you

43:56

know, wake up and you know, be smoking

43:59

his pipe and the you know, plane would

44:00

land itself. At the time my wife was

44:03

taking flying lessons and um

44:07

he said, "Yeah, yeah, you know, bring

44:08

her up here and um

44:12

I think they had an engineer also on

44:15

another panel. I don't I don't quite

44:17

remember, but I was there with my wife,

44:19

there were people on board and he he'd

44:22

say "Hey, come on here and take the

44:24

wheel." And he'd get the captain of the

44:26

plane with

44:28

you know, I think my wife was in her 20s

44:30

at the time and just sit her down and

44:32

say, "Yeah, hold on to it and you know,

44:35

just keep correcting." And he'd just let

44:37

her fly the plane which is insane. And

44:42

you know, the co-pilot would just look

44:44

over and I remember looking over at I

44:47

think the engineer that looked at the

44:48

gauges and he just put his head down

44:51

>> [laughter]

44:51

>> and pretended like nothing was

44:52

happening. And um

44:55

that was just one time. Another time he

44:57

was fly uh

45:00

ferrying an L-1011

45:02

going by Roswell. At the time I was

45:04

living in New Mexico

45:06

and they called him and told him he

45:09

wasn't getting paid.

45:12

That the company was, you know,

45:14

defaulted or something like that.

45:17

And

45:18

he was coming up to New Mexico and

45:20

landed at the Roswell just took the

45:22

plane and landed at the Roswell Airport

45:25

this the whole 1011 got off walked out

45:30

walked up to a bus station, gave me a

45:32

call on the the payphone and said, "Hey

45:34

Bob, I'm coming over."

45:36

Okay, you know, you're in New Mexico.

45:39

Yeah. And he drove up

45:41

taxi would drop him off at the house,

45:43

he'd walk he [laughter] he walked in he

45:45

went, "Boy, I'm tired." And he just laid

45:48

down on the couch, you know, and go to

45:50

sleep and I said,

45:51

"What are you doing here? What's going

45:53

on?" "Oh, I just dropped the plane off.

45:54

They're not paying me and you know, that

45:56

that's it." But I mean John Lear was

45:58

such like a loose cannon.

46:00

Um

46:01

he was he was a great friend to have,

46:03

but uh he had no filter.

46:06

If he had a retired general come up and

46:10

give him all kinds of information

46:13

or if he had a psychic come up from, you

46:16

know, the neighborhood and give him all

46:18

kinds of information, he'd put him in

46:20

the same category. Um

46:23

>> You know, and uh so

46:26

he really did have useful information

46:31

that was difficult to get, but it was

46:32

mixed up with nonsense. Right. And you

46:37

and sometimes he would just really lean

46:40

into that nonsense. Like he was

46:42

convinced that the sun wasn't hot and

46:44

there were people living inside and I

46:46

used to die laughing. I'm like, "You are

46:48

[laughter]

46:49

insane."

46:51

I said, "You you can't prove it's hot."

46:53

"Yes, I can." You know, just go outside

46:57

>> [laughter]

46:57

>> you know, on a hot day, you know, and

46:59

and you know, and John said, "That's not

47:02

the sun. That's just the the sun's

47:04

atmosphere that's on fire." And I said,

47:06

"You're just crazy." But we got along

47:10

and he knew that I I thought he was

47:12

crazy, but the thing is a lot of people

47:15

did come to him

47:17

and give him good information.

47:19

Um

47:21

Anyway, I don't remember where I was

47:23

going with this.

47:23

>> the thing about some people. Some people

47:26

will tell you nonsense and then they'll

47:28

tell you true things. And it's difficult

47:31

to accept that true things also come

47:34

from people that say nonsense. Like just

47:36

because they've said something that's

47:38

nonsense doesn't mean necessarily that

47:41

this thing they're saying is not true.

47:43

This other thing. And you've got to be

47:45

able to discern.

47:47

You've got like I talk to a lot of

47:48

people that say a lot of kooky things

47:50

that don't make any sense, but then

47:51

they'll say something that rings true.

47:53

And it's it's difficult because you have

47:56

to have some sort of an understanding of

47:59

the human psyche and of those kind of

48:01

people because there are kind of people

48:03

that have very loose nets.

48:06

You're counting on their filter working

48:08

like yours.

48:08

>> it doesn't.

48:09

>> And it No, it doesn't. Some people

48:11

>> stuff gets in there and you go, "Hold

48:12

on. What did you just say?

48:14

Tell me that again. How does that one

48:16

work?" Yeah, you can't really discount

48:18

people because somebody comes up with

48:19

some absolute nonsense. It just means

48:22

their filter is defective.

48:24

But Which is also the reason why they're

48:26

willing to entertain things that are

48:28

outside of the normal spectrum. Right.

48:31

So like they might have actual real

48:34

useful information but it's wrapped up

48:37

in there with Bigfoot.

48:39

Exactly. Yeah, exactly. But so the soul

48:42

catcher thing. Oh, that yeah, that's

48:44

where I was going. The soul catcher. So

48:46

um

48:48

I remember him sitting and I think he

48:50

was telling my wife Joy this story

48:53

because I walked in on it. He said,

48:55

"Yeah, there are these giant antennas

48:57

and when you die

48:59

>> [laughter]

48:59

>> your soul goes up and I think he said

49:03

the grays, you know, this alien race set

49:06

up this soul catcher and that's what

49:08

this whole thing is about. And as you

49:10

die

49:12

it sucks your soul in and they use it in

49:15

some way. And um it's not where your

49:18

soul is supposed to go. They just like

49:20

set some sort of intercept.

49:22

>> say where your soul was supposed to go?

49:24

No. No.

49:25

>> No, he was just more really into the

49:27

soul catcher.

49:28

>> Well, that was one of the weirder things

49:29

about some of the documents that you had

49:33

at least been alerted to when you're on

49:35

the base. And one of them being that

49:37

humans are containers. Yeah. All right.

49:39

Yeah.

49:40

Yeah, and

49:41

>> Which the likely conclusion is

49:43

containers of souls. If a soul is a real

49:46

thing, whatever that That's what you

49:47

would think. Right. I mean, that's what

49:49

I thought. Yeah. I mean, It's just a

49:51

guess.

49:52

>> prefer to believe that that's that's not

49:54

true. Mhm. Um

49:57

but maybe it is. I just they I don't

50:00

know. As Barry said, you know, they mix

50:02

absolute nonsense in there.

50:05

So, if they get if you

50:08

and it's unique to each person. So, if

50:10

you give out any information and they

50:11

go, "Oh, we heard some stuff about soul

50:13

catchers. Oh, we know that came from

50:15

Lazar." You know, so, um

50:18

that's just a way where they can direct

50:20

where it where it came to.

50:22

But Then the problem is like decades and

50:24

decades, generations and generations of

50:26

people working there. How many people

50:28

know what the real truth is? And how

50:30

many people know

50:31

>> know. I mean, there must be a Yeah,

50:33

there must be a group of people that

50:35

really have the pure information of

50:36

what's going on. I would assume, but not

50:39

necessarily.

50:41

I would think over There has to be there

50:43

has to be a group of people that know

50:45

what's going on. And um Who are those

50:47

people? Mhm. You know, and to me, like I

50:50

I was telling Luigi, I have a bunch of

50:53

questions for me.

50:55

You know? Right.

50:56

>> Um Like what would be your questions for

50:58

you if you met you? Yeah. Now, questions

51:00

for me are people that ask me over

51:03

decades the same same questions. You

51:06

know, why is it the Navy? The Navy paid

51:10

me. I always said the Navy everything

51:12

has been the Navy instead of the Air

51:13

Force because, you know, back in the

51:16

'60s and '70s, you know, there's Project

51:18

Blue Book in the Air Force and all that,

51:20

but um

51:23

everything associated with this was the

51:25

Navy.

51:27

So,

51:29

and in these days, you hear some of

51:31

these

51:33

new types of crafts that are

51:35

transmedium. Yeah, you you hear the word

51:38

transmedium and in it David Fravor,

51:41

Commander David Fravor, you know, with

51:43

the Tic Tac and you know, things are

51:45

under the water.

51:47

And you know, supposedly the the craft

51:50

that

51:51

the sport model was an archaeological

51:54

recovery, and that itself was

51:57

underwater. So, what is

52:01

what is the deal with the water?

52:03

I mean, it's it's

52:06

it's by far the biggest medium of the

52:09

planet.

52:10

I mean, if you want to hide

52:13

people down there, almost an entire

52:15

civilization down there, you could do it

52:18

in the ocean as long as you do it deep

52:20

enough and away from people.

52:22

So, yeah, number one is what's the deal

52:24

with the ocean? That's probably the the

52:26

number one question. Because there's a

52:28

ton of sightings

52:30

where people see things come out of the

52:32

water

52:33

and go into the water.

52:34

>> Yeah, there has to be a reason for that.

52:37

Well, it just in terms of if they have

52:39

the ability to travel through space, if

52:42

they if whatever that thing is really

52:44

does create some sort of a gravity

52:46

bubble or some sort of a space-time

52:48

bubble. Yeah, but maybe it's not space.

52:52

Maybe it's not space. Maybe maybe it's

52:54

time. Maybe it's another dimension.

52:57

There's

52:58

there's really no limit. If you can

53:01

start manipulating

53:04

physics in that way,

53:06

um

53:08

you can bend time, you can

53:10

open doorways into other dimensions. So,

53:17

maybe it has nothing to do with going I

53:19

Look, we all want it to be like Star

53:21

Trek. Right.

53:22

>> You know, because Star Trek is really

53:24

understandable. Right.

53:25

>> You go out there, you fly to another

53:27

planet. You meet the people there, you

53:29

go to another one. Well, these guys are

53:31

happy, those guys aren't, you know, and

53:33

it all makes perfect sense.

53:35

I don't really think it's like that.

53:39

Look,

53:40

you know, if you look in history,

53:41

especially, you know, in United States

53:43

history,

53:44

anytime a superior

53:48

race or intelligence meets with an

53:50

inferior one, it's never good for the

53:54

inferior guys. Never.

53:56

We never come over and go, "Oh, we just

53:59

want to teach you guys everything that

54:00

we know." Right. No, no. It's like,

54:03

"We're going to rape all your women,

54:05

take all your stuff, and then just kill

54:07

you." Use your resources.

54:08

>> Yeah, right. And just consume everything

54:10

you want. That's just always the way it

54:12

goes. Now, maybe that's just what humans

54:14

do, but I would be concerned that's what

54:18

all life does. Well,

54:21

we are territorial primates. Mhm. And

54:24

that makes sense that that's what we do.

54:26

The thing that always fascinates me

54:28

about particularly the grays, they seem

54:30

to be genderless,

54:32

and they seem to have no muscle at all.

54:35

They and they seem to have enormous

54:37

heads, and the

54:39

stories at least, the anecdotal accounts

54:42

of people having communication with

54:44

these creatures is that they communicate

54:46

in some way telepathically.

54:49

Yeah. If you transcend all of our weird

54:54

biological needs, like all the things

54:57

that are attached to being a human

54:58

being, ego, lust, greed, desire to

55:01

conquer, desire to control resources,

55:03

all those things are territorial primate

55:06

instincts.

55:08

And one of the conversations I had

55:09

yesterday with my friend Theo, we were

55:10

talking about like what's happening to

55:13

people's bodies,

55:15

is that people are slowly

55:18

we're consuming microplastics and

55:21

phthalates and all these things that are

55:23

reducing our reproductive system, our

55:25

testosterone's dropping. Right, right.

55:28

All this stuff like leads you to say,

55:30

"Well, where does this go ultimately?"

55:33

Like what what how many more people are

55:36

autistic now than were before? It's one

55:39

out of 12 boys in California now. Used

55:42

to be one out of 10,000 just a few

55:44

decades ago. Like we're moving into this

55:46

very weird direction without us

55:48

recognizing it.

55:49

>> me stop you there. It's one out of how

55:51

many? One out of 12 boys in California

55:53

are diagnosed autistic now.

55:56

But do you think that might be the way

55:59

they're diagnosed? No.

56:01

No, I think it's exposure. I think it's

56:03

exposed to chemicals, vaccines,

56:06

environmental toxins. You think that do,

56:08

yeah? I think that. It's not just me.

56:10

There's tons of studies and and a lot of

56:13

buried studies, too.

56:14

>> Okay. I mean, if that's accurate, that's

56:15

frightening. Yeah. Well, it is it's it

56:17

can't be just diagnosed because I mean,

56:20

I know so many people that have

56:21

nonverbal autistic kids, where I didn't

56:23

know anybody that had nonverbal autistic

56:25

kids when I was younger. Well,

56:29

you know, I mean, back in the '60s and

56:31

'70s, there was no there were no kids

56:34

with ADHD.

56:35

>> Mhm.

56:36

Kids that were like that were just

56:37

Mhm. You know? I think that's

56:39

still the the case. I don't think ADHD

56:42

is a real diagnosis. I think it's a real

56:45

excuse to give people medication. I

56:47

think ADHD is essentially a superpower.

56:50

What ADHD is allows you to concentrate

56:52

on things that you really enjoy, but you

56:54

cannot concentrate on things you don't

56:56

enjoy. Okay. I think I have it.

56:58

You know, and I think I'm very fortunate

57:00

that I'm not diagnosed and medicated or

57:02

wasn't or was born in the right time

57:04

when they weren't doing that as much.

57:06

>> No, I actually I'll stop you there and

57:08

say I I agree that that's a superpower,

57:10

too. Because it's a very unusual. I can

57:12

Yeah, yeah. If I find a thing that I

57:14

like, I can lock in and concentrate on

57:16

it for 12, 14 hours with no sleep, no

57:19

food. All I need is like water or

57:21

coffee, and and I'm locked in. All

57:23

right. I locked in for 4 and 1/2 years.

57:26

>> [laughter]

57:26

>> Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know. I don't I

57:28

don't think I think what ADHD is you're

57:30

taking kids, you're putting them in a

57:32

completely unnatural environment, you're

57:34

making them sit down. They don't want to

57:35

sit down. They're very active and

57:36

energetic. You're making them study

57:38

things by very unenthusiastic teachers.

57:41

They don't want to pay attention.

57:42

They're off in class because

57:43

they're completely bored. And then

57:45

you're saying that kid's got a problem.

57:47

We have to diagnose them. And then what

57:49

do you give them? You give them

57:50

Adderall. And all of a sudden the kid's

57:52

locked in cuz they're on speed.

57:54

>> Yeah. And I just think

57:56

>> if you focus in and let them do what

57:58

they're interested in.

57:59

>> kid a video game. Watch him play it for

58:01

10 hours with no food. Cuz

58:03

that's what happens. Cuz that's

58:04

something they're actually engaged with.

58:05

It's not that they can't be focused on

58:08

anything. They just don't focus on

58:10

things they enjoy. And we want to turn

58:12

people into nice little factory workers.

58:14

>> Right. And the only way to do that is

58:16

you got to get a kid to comply. You got

58:17

to get a kid to pay attention and follow

58:19

the rules.

58:19

>> the same channel. It's really great. I

58:21

don't believe that ADHD is a real thing.

58:23

I just think there's some people that

58:24

are wired differently, and they should

58:27

pursue different things in life. Right.

58:29

The difference between that and autism

58:30

is very different. And autism is

58:33

especially when it happens like almost

58:37

directly after multiple vaccinations.

58:40

There's a lot of them they point to,

58:41

particularly the MMR vaccine. There's a

58:43

there's there's quite a few. When you

58:45

look at the schedule of vaccines and how

58:47

it ramped up and it completely

58:49

correlates with the ramping up of the

58:51

diagnoses of autism.

58:53

But but without casting aspersions or

58:55

getting into some anti-vaccine

58:57

conversation, Wait, you just did. I

58:59

know, I did. But what I'm saying is but

59:01

ultimately the human race is moving into

59:04

a very weird place. So, I had a

59:06

conversation with um

59:08

Shanna Swan, Dr. Shanna Swan, who

59:11

is uh she studies environmental

59:14

endocrine disruptors. So, various

59:17

toxins, phthalates, microplastics, and

59:20

plasticizers that are completely

59:22

disruptive to people's endocrine system,

59:25

reproductive system. And from the

59:27

introduction of these petrochemical

59:29

products in the 1950s and '60s, you see

59:32

a direct correlation between the dip in

59:35

testosterone rates in amongst men, the

59:39

uh increase of miscarriages and

59:41

infertility, and then on top of that,

59:44

the actual shrinking of their taint. So,

59:47

one of the ways they find out the

59:48

difference between mammals um some

59:51

mammals in particular, when you see a a

59:54

a a child a baby mammal, the difference

59:57

between a male and a female is easily

1:00:01

recognized by the size of the gap

1:00:03

between their anal their anal hole and

1:00:06

where their genitals are.

1:00:07

>> But, that could just be correlation.

1:00:10

You know, it's like No, no, no. No, no,

1:00:12

no. No, I'll explain why it's not.

1:00:14

Because when they've done studies where

1:00:16

they've used phthalates, particularly

1:00:18

phthalates, and they've introduced them

1:00:20

specifically purposely into certain

1:00:23

mammals and rodents, their taint

1:00:24

shrinks. Hm. And their taint shrinks and

1:00:27

their penises their penis size shrinks.

1:00:29

And there's studies on rivers, they have

1:00:31

smaller penises. And she she talked

1:00:33

about all this. And all this these are

1:00:35

endocrine disruptors

1:00:39

that are in the environment that are

1:00:40

doing something that reduces fertility.

1:00:44

And it changes the way the human biology

1:00:47

functions. And it makes men more

1:00:49

feminine and it makes women less

1:00:50

fertile. Okay. Well, ultimately we look

1:00:53

at the Grays, what do they look like?

1:00:55

Yeah. They look like they have no

1:00:57

genitals. They look like they have they

1:00:58

have no sex. They have like That might

1:01:01

be where biology has to go to transcend

1:01:05

away from our territorial primate

1:01:08

biology.

1:01:09

Our territorial primate biology that is

1:01:11

insistent on war and violence and Right.

1:01:14

And we think this is the place to stay.

1:01:17

Exactly.

1:01:17

>> And it may not be.

1:01:18

>> It may not be. It it it may be

1:01:20

completely non-beneficial to all life.

1:01:23

>> Right. Right.

1:01:24

>> That we have to transcend that. And

1:01:26

well, we are transcending it whether we

1:01:28

like it or not. And what I was saying is

1:01:30

that I don't know if it's a bug. I think

1:01:33

it might be a feature of evolution. That

1:01:37

our insistence on using plastics and

1:01:40

technology and all of these different

1:01:43

environmental

1:01:44

toxins that we use to produce energy and

1:01:49

all the goods and services that we need

1:01:52

also are disrupting our endocrine system

1:01:55

and changing us from being these hulking

1:01:58

hair-covered cave men to being these

1:02:01

very small, slight autistic men that can

1:02:05

code 24 hours a day without

1:02:07

sleep. Right.

1:02:08

It seems like if you extrapolate and you

1:02:11

naturally take that further, well, what

1:02:13

do you get? You get really skinny things

1:02:16

with no muscles and giant heads. My my

1:02:18

take also and I and I do agree with that

1:02:21

is what I find out what I find sometimes

1:02:24

really

1:02:25

uh concerning is how fast that's moving.

1:02:29

So, it's not just a question of like is

1:02:33

this actually

1:02:35

it it this is probably a thing, but it's

1:02:37

moving so incredibly fast. If I look at

1:02:40

my father's generation or my

1:02:41

grandfather's generation and my

1:02:43

generation,

1:02:45

I mean, it's it's similar, but now it's

1:02:48

moving so fast. I I I do agree with

1:02:51

you're saying and I'm thinking if it's

1:02:53

moving so fast,

1:02:55

there could be a not a natural component

1:02:57

to it, but there's an intentional

1:02:59

component.

1:03:00

>> Right. If you wanted to do something to

1:03:02

a race to change it. Like think about

1:03:04

what we did with wolves.

1:03:06

Right. All dogs are wolves. Yeah. Right.

1:03:08

I have two dogs that are the furthest

1:03:11

thing from wolves you could

1:03:12

possibly imagine.

1:03:13

>> Is that Marshmallow? Marshall. Yeah,

1:03:15

>> [laughter]

1:03:15

>> you can call him he might be a

1:03:16

Marshmallow. He might as well be a

1:03:17

Marshmallow. Marshall who's a Golden

1:03:19

Retriever is the sweetest dog of all

1:03:21

time. Then I have another dog named

1:03:22

Charlie who's a King Charles Cavalier

1:03:24

Spaniel who's even further from a wolf

1:03:27

than Marshall. He's just a cute little

1:03:30

fuzzy little sweetheart. They have no

1:03:33

killer instincts whatsoever.

1:03:35

That used to be a wolf. Right, well,

1:03:37

what happened? We softened them to the

1:03:40

point where they're something compatible

1:03:42

with our modern life with households and

1:03:45

families and babies and you can we made

1:03:48

them safe. And that's happening to

1:03:51

people.

1:03:52

It's happening to people whether we like

1:03:54

it or not. We could attribute it to all

1:03:55

these different factors. Oh, it's a

1:03:56

problem. We have to remove these things

1:03:58

from the environment. This is what's

1:03:59

going on. Maybe or maybe you just look

1:04:02

at the overall picture, there seems to

1:04:04

be an insatiable desire for innovation

1:04:06

and technology that human beings have.

1:04:08

If you looked at us from afar, if you

1:04:10

weren't part of the human race and

1:04:12

you're just studying us, you're like,

1:04:13

what does this species do? Well, makes

1:04:15

better things. Makes better things all

1:04:17

the time.

1:04:18

Constantly. You know, I look I have a

1:04:20

iPhone 16 here. It's not as good as the

1:04:22

iPhone 17. iPhone 17's better. Why don't

1:04:25

you get an iPhone 17? You know, it just

1:04:26

like keeps going. It never stops. It

1:04:28

never ends. The TVs get bigger. They get

1:04:30

stronger. Your cars get faster. Your

1:04:32

computer does more cores. Does

1:04:35

processing, video editing so much

1:04:38

quicker. Everything moves faster and

1:04:40

better. We keep making better things. We

1:04:42

never stop and say, you know what?

1:04:43

Society right now, we have a lot of

1:04:46

problems. The problems that we don't

1:04:48

have are technology. Our technology

1:04:50

seems completely suitable to this world

1:04:52

that we're living in right now. Let's

1:04:54

just

1:04:55

new things and concentrate on cleaning

1:04:57

the rivers and concentrate on stopping

1:04:59

crime and concentrate on educating

1:05:01

people. Concentrate on counseling for

1:05:04

troubled young people. No. No, we just

1:05:06

plow forward ahead with the one thing

1:05:08

that we absolutely guarantee to do. We

1:05:11

make better things. We make better

1:05:12

weapons, better cars, faster planes.

1:05:15

Everything we do, we make things better.

1:05:17

And I'll and I'll sorry, I have to add

1:05:19

we do that and we also do it in a way

1:05:22

where it's economically beneficial to

1:05:24

the ones that are making it because we

1:05:26

make things break now.

1:05:28

Think about it. We make better things,

1:05:30

but we make them so that you have to buy

1:05:31

the better thing after. Right.

1:05:34

Engineered obsolescence. Yeah. That's

1:05:35

also important.

1:05:36

>> Yeah, it is because then it also human

1:05:39

beings have this very bizarre desire for

1:05:42

materialism. Like what why would a thing

1:05:45

with a finite lifespan want to

1:05:48

accumulate objects? Like I know people

1:05:51

that are in their 80s that collect

1:05:53

things. Like what are you doing

1:05:55

with that stuff? You're going to die.

1:05:57

You have maybe like 10 summers left on

1:05:59

on Earth. And here you are collecting

1:06:02

stamps or cars or

1:06:04

>> yeah. No, no. I've gotten to that. It's

1:06:07

weird. Yeah, I mean, at some point you

1:06:10

>> [cough and clears throat]

1:06:11

>> you have to bypass the accumulating

1:06:13

stuff Right.

1:06:14

>> part of life. But, materialism ensures a

1:06:18

constant fueling of innovation.

1:06:22

Because this is one of the things that

1:06:23

gets people excited about collecting new

1:06:25

stuff is that you're going to make a

1:06:27

better version.

1:06:29

Like I don't care how good your Mercedes

1:06:31

is. It's not a 2026 Mercedes. Right.

1:06:34

Yeah, exactly. It has new features. It

1:06:36

has a new thing. And so, it's like all

1:06:38

built into the human psychology and also

1:06:41

to this thing that I said like I said,

1:06:43

if you were somewhere from somewhere

1:06:45

else and studying this species, what

1:06:47

does it do? It it makes better things.

1:06:50

What do sharks do? They eat things. They

1:06:52

just swim around. They can't even stop

1:06:53

swimming. They eat things. What do

1:06:55

people do? They they really just make

1:06:57

better things. They go to war. Why do

1:06:59

they go to war really? They go to war so

1:07:01

they can control resources so they have

1:07:03

more money so they can make more things

1:07:05

and better things. And also the amount

1:07:07

of innovation that is in warfare, in war

1:07:10

weapons, in war fighting. Yeah, that

1:07:12

yeah, that's actually critical to keep

1:07:15

the system going. Yeah. Well, ultimately

1:07:17

all that does it all of it releases more

1:07:20

endocrine disruptors, more contact with

1:07:23

all these different chemicals and

1:07:24

toxins, feminizes men, ruins women's

1:07:28

reproductive systems to the point where

1:07:29

ultimately we say, oh, for the survival

1:07:32

of the race, we're going to have to

1:07:33

figure out how to reproduce

1:07:35

non-biologically.

1:07:36

>> Hm.

1:07:38

When I first got involved in

1:07:40

yeah, it's

1:07:42

It's something to ponder, right? It's

1:07:44

something to ponder because we're so

1:07:45

wrapped up in who we are. We're so

1:07:47

wrapped up and look, I love being a

1:07:48

person. I love living in Texas. I love

1:07:51

driving an American car. I love all

1:07:53

those things. But, what does that mean?

1:07:55

Like what is that what is that? You

1:07:57

know, these are just weird identity

1:07:59

points that you connect with whatever

1:08:00

this species is. Well, but if you just

1:08:03

could just have a

1:08:05

above view,

1:08:07

and you look down and go, what are we

1:08:08

doing?

1:08:11

Yeah, that's a that's a good question.

1:08:13

That's a good question.

1:08:15

Yeah, like how far are we going and how

1:08:17

fast are we going there? We're going

1:08:19

pretty fast. And now with AI, I

1:08:22

think we're going way faster than we

1:08:24

even understand.

1:08:26

Because with Claude, I mean, they they

1:08:28

think that the Claude AI the the

1:08:30

engineers, they we think it's sentient

1:08:32

already. It just doesn't have a physical

1:08:34

body to move around.

1:08:35

>> is going to kill us. Everybody agrees

1:08:37

with that. [laughter]

1:08:38

There's no question.

1:08:39

>> think it's going to kill us. You know

1:08:40

what I think it's going to do? I think

1:08:41

it's going to prevent us from breeding.

1:08:43

I think it's going to let us die off.

1:08:45

No, it's not going to kill us, Joe.

1:08:47

>> we're going to willingly go with it

1:08:49

because we're going to get like mates

1:08:50

like Ex Machina. We're going to just

1:08:53

something to take care of us.

1:08:54

>> they come out

1:08:56

with a female robot

1:08:58

>> Uh-huh. Yeah. That's sexually attractive

1:09:00

or whatever. Yeah, game over.

1:09:03

>> over. There's there's just going to be

1:09:05

no more babies and we're just going to

1:09:07

die out.

1:09:08

>> Yeah. So,

1:09:09

>> Or integrate. And I think it's much more

1:09:11

likely that we integrate. And that's

1:09:13

where you get the Grays. I think that

1:09:14

what the Grays are is a combination of

1:09:16

technology and biology. And if you just

1:09:19

if you just go from

1:09:21

>> chimp

1:09:22

to caveman

1:09:24

to gray, you go, oh, I see where going.

1:09:27

Chimp, chimp, caveman, human. Modern

1:09:31

human,

1:09:32

gelatinous, soft, slow-moving,

1:09:35

weak modern human, grays. Like I have I

1:09:39

have always

1:09:40

leaned into what Barry told me cuz it's

1:09:43

the only information I had that

1:09:46

the craft came from Zeta Reticuli, which

1:09:48

is a star system I

1:09:50

30 some odd light-years away. And um,

1:09:54

you know, again, it was just like a Star

1:09:56

Trek thing. They came over here

1:09:59

for whatever reason.

1:10:01

But that information may not be true.

1:10:04

Right, that might information

1:10:05

information might be one of those things

1:10:06

they put out that's nonsense.

1:10:09

>> if it's if it has to do with time, I

1:10:11

think uh

1:10:13

from what George has told me, Jacques

1:10:14

Vallée and some, you know, other really

1:10:16

credible researchers have have said that

1:10:19

uh

1:10:20

these are people either from another

1:10:22

dimension or another time or maybe

1:10:24

they're us from the future. Right. You

1:10:26

know, just coming back to

1:10:29

interact with us in some way.

1:10:31

Um

1:10:31

>> Make sure we don't everything up

1:10:33

irreparably. Yeah, but it it doesn't

1:10:35

seem like they're doing a good job.

1:10:38

Well, maybe things up somewhat

1:10:40

is also part of the plan.

1:10:42

Maybe that actually has to take place

1:10:44

and disrupt.

1:10:46

>> Look at the Look at the way things are

1:10:48

going right now.

1:10:49

>> Right.

1:10:49

>> Holy cow.

1:10:50

>> Exactly. Things are off

1:10:52

totally off the rails.

1:10:54

>> Mhm.

1:10:55

But maybe that's part of the plan. Maybe

1:10:57

part of it is like it has to get so far

1:10:59

sideways that we realize how up

1:11:01

everything is that we start making

1:11:02

meaningful changes and implement AI as

1:11:06

government.

1:11:08

That's a dangerous thing.

1:11:09

>> Exactly, but is it as dangerous as Iran

1:11:11

getting nukes? I don't know. Is it as

1:11:13

dangerous as

1:11:15

a global Islamic caliphate? No, it's not

1:11:17

Iran. Iran's not getting nukes. I mean

1:11:20

>> Okay, but what if

1:11:21

>> They have Iran they

1:11:23

Never mind.

1:11:25

>> [laughter]

1:11:25

>> I don't want to get into political

1:11:26

stuff. No, but you could. You could.

1:11:29

Like if you gave Iran the technology to

1:11:31

get nukes, they would take it.

1:11:33

>> has any any physicist has the technology

1:11:35

to get nukes. Right. I mean, the

1:11:37

difficulty is actually making the

1:11:39

material. So, I mean, if I was Iran, I

1:11:43

would enrich to 80 or 90% because that's

1:11:46

where you can make a weapon

1:11:48

and and stop there.

1:11:50

>> Right, it's not like they would be the

1:11:51

only people with the weapon. Pakistan,

1:11:53

India, North Korea.

1:11:54

>> doesn't make you have a weapon. It just

1:11:57

gives you a shortcut to it.

1:12:00

And making a weapon from there and being

1:12:03

able to deliver a weapon,

1:12:06

you know, to 4,000 mi away, good luck

1:12:10

with that. That's a

1:12:12

big deal. So, um Right, but they're in

1:12:15

communication with China who has that.

1:12:17

They're in communication with China.

1:12:18

>> to they don't need to enrich uranium or

1:12:20

do anything. They just get Can you give

1:12:21

me a a missile? Um Right, but wouldn't

1:12:24

they rather make their own? No. But

1:12:26

that's but it's not even the point.

1:12:27

>> Rather make their own. Why Why would you

1:12:29

do that? Would you rather make your own

1:12:31

car or just somebody give it to you?

1:12:34

No, you Why Why would Why would you do

1:12:37

that? You got a buddy that'll just give

1:12:38

you one. Cuz you'd want to be

1:12:39

self-sufficient. You'd want to have your

1:12:41

own production where you don't have to

1:12:43

rely on someone. No, you can always do

1:12:45

that. You can always do that. I don't I

1:12:47

don't think they're ever they were ever

1:12:49

going They're going to absolutely make a

1:12:51

weapon now

1:12:53

Right. because we're, you know, kicking

1:12:55

their ass. I

1:12:57

As everyone has learned, I guess you

1:12:59

have to have nuclear weapons now to, you

1:13:02

know, but

1:13:04

the it this is a really bad situation.

1:13:07

Oh, it's a horrible situation. But my

1:13:09

point is

1:13:10

why is this situation taking place? The

1:13:13

situation taking place is because human

1:13:15

beings suck.

1:13:17

Right? We suck in how we interact with

1:13:19

each other. It's we suck we suck because

1:13:22

we're territorial primates with weapons

1:13:26

of mass destruction.

1:13:27

>> just all get along? Well, what is the

1:13:30

way to stop that from ever happening?

1:13:33

Well, one, you will let a catastrophe

1:13:35

unfold and then you offer a solution to

1:13:37

make sure these catastrophes never

1:13:39

unfold again.

1:13:40

Well, what's the best solution? Well, we

1:13:41

have something far smarter than people

1:13:43

that will take over control of resources

1:13:45

and government.

1:13:47

AI. AI. Yeah. This is This is Colossus.

1:13:50

You ever seen the movie Colossus?

1:13:53

>> I got to watch it.

1:13:54

>> Well that That's a merit against you.

1:13:58

>> [laughter]

1:13:59

>> The movie Colossus was a 1960s or 70s

1:14:03

movie and

1:14:05

it it's about um

1:14:08

you know, the scientist makes

1:14:11

deep inside this mountain a computer to

1:14:14

take over the defense of the United

1:14:16

States.

1:14:17

And

1:14:18

you know, they

1:14:20

build this gigantic computer inside

1:14:22

Cheyenne Mountain or something similar

1:14:25

to it and you know, they flip the switch

1:14:28

and they went, "Okay, we're we're

1:14:29

protected. We're we're in good shape."

1:14:32

And um

1:14:34

shortly after time goes on, you know,

1:14:37

they realize, "Wow, the computer is

1:14:39

really performing better than we

1:14:41

expected." And as it turns out,

1:14:45

Russia had done the same thing.

1:14:48

And the computers want to communicate

1:14:49

together.

1:14:51

And um

1:14:53

you know, they start communicating and

1:14:55

the United States goes, "Well, they

1:14:57

might be giving our our secrets away, so

1:14:59

we better

1:15:00

you know, cut the communication line."

1:15:03

And the computers freak out and they go,

1:15:05

"Well, I guess we'll just launch nuclear

1:15:07

bombs, you know, at everybody." And they

1:15:10

launches weapons and, you know,

1:15:12

essentially holds everybody hostage, but

1:15:15

um

1:15:18

it's kind of like a trap. It's kind of

1:15:20

like a trap. If we go that way, it it

1:15:21

could trap us.

1:15:23

>> a trap.

1:15:24

>> Well, you know, in simulated war games,

1:15:25

AIs use nuclear weapons

1:15:27

>> 98% of the time. Yeah. I [laughter]

1:15:30

mean, yeah, because

1:15:31

why wouldn't they? Because I mean, look,

1:15:33

the goal is to win. Right. And we're

1:15:37

going to present you with the scenario

1:15:39

and they go, "Okay, nuke 'em."

1:15:42

And you know, and why wouldn't you pick

1:15:44

that? We You going to start with

1:15:45

slapping them in the face?

1:15:46

>> Well, why is it better to just bomb them

1:15:49

over and over and over again until you

1:15:51

achieve the same amount of damage?

1:15:52

>> in the face. Nuke 'em, it's over with.

1:15:55

We can move on from there.

1:15:56

>> Right. So Yeah, that's

1:15:58

>> Well, you think about what happened in

1:15:59

Gaza. Like you look at the leveling of

1:16:01

all those buildings, the mass

1:16:03

destruction. It's terrible. It looks

1:16:05

like a nuke. Yeah. It looks like one

1:16:07

nuke instead of thousands of missiles

1:16:10

and bombs. It's one nuke.

1:16:12

>> but it's not.

1:16:13

>> Right. In terms of the amount of damage

1:16:14

it could do instantaneously.

1:16:16

>> Because I mean, because we can detect a

1:16:18

nuke. Was there ever any conversation

1:16:20

that you were privy to where they

1:16:21

discussed, because one of the things

1:16:23

that does come up over and over again in

1:16:26

UFO discussions is these crafts that

1:16:29

show up at these military bases and shut

1:16:31

down all the weapon systems?

1:16:33

>> No, I I actually know nothing about

1:16:35

that. Um

1:16:37

Most of the UFO stuff or UFO lore that

1:16:40

I've heard, I I don't know anything

1:16:42

about. I I've just looked at it That's

1:16:44

so fascinating cuz you're the most

1:16:46

prominent figure in all of UFO lore.

1:16:48

>> telling him yesterday. Yeah, but

1:16:49

[laughter] I I

1:16:50

I I really I really only like like to

1:16:53

talk about what I know about.

1:16:55

>> Right, And I've heard I mean, I've heard

1:16:57

other stories, but I've never heard them

1:16:59

officially. I don't know if they're

1:17:01

really

1:17:02

real. Um Well, it's one of the things

1:17:04

that makes you most credible.

1:17:06

Cuz you're not a UFO guy.

1:17:08

>> but I mean No, yes, it does with me.

1:17:11

Because when people are like way too

1:17:12

into it, they want to believe too much.

1:17:15

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But no, I I I don't

1:17:18

know anything.

1:17:18

>> you know who these people are?

1:17:20

Yeah, yeah, Betty and Barney Hill.

1:17:21

>> Okay. Well, so you know a little Yeah,

1:17:22

they they were the first abductees. I

1:17:25

mean, to me, they're

1:17:27

I don't I don't know who first

1:17:28

introduced those to me and I looked them

1:17:30

up.

1:17:31

And

1:17:34

you know, I people say, "Do you believe

1:17:36

them?" And I'm kind of inclined to

1:17:39

believe them because look, in the 1960s,

1:17:43

right, where they're from, the last

1:17:46

thing you want to do is be recognized

1:17:50

as a mixed-race couple.

1:17:52

Right? I mean Right, and go public with

1:17:54

your Yeah, I mean, holy cow. They would

1:17:57

hate you. Yeah. A black person and a

1:18:00

white person that were, you know, in any

1:18:03

kind of relationship, but um

1:18:06

And they have this crazy story. Yeah.

1:18:09

And you hear their abduction story.

1:18:10

>> on top of that, I have a connection to

1:18:14

that because Barry said they're from the

1:18:16

Zeta Reticuli star system and I believe

1:18:20

it's Betty Betty Hill drew a map of the

1:18:24

Zeta Reticuli star system and said this

1:18:26

is part of their roots.

1:18:29

Whoa.

1:18:30

Did you know that? You didn't know that?

1:18:32

No, I don't remember that. I don't

1:18:33

remember I mean, I remember it from what

1:18:35

you said from your story.

1:18:36

>> you look up in Betty and Barney Hill,

1:18:40

she said

1:18:41

um I think

1:18:44

I don't know. I mean, I can never get

1:18:45

this stuff right. They show her a map

1:18:47

and they say, "Well, this is a map." She

1:18:49

wanted to know why they were here,

1:18:51

what's going on. They showed her a map,

1:18:53

am I right?

1:18:54

>> her a map. And

1:18:56

they said, "Do you Do you understand

1:18:58

this?" And she said, "No." And they

1:19:00

said, "Well, why should we tell you any

1:19:01

more?" And

1:19:03

well, I don't know. Maybe you could fill

1:19:04

in the blank. It's something like they

1:19:05

they showed her this star map, you know,

1:19:08

and she obviously

1:19:11

Look at that. Under hypnosis, Betty Hill

1:19:13

describes a map she was shown by the

1:19:15

leader aboard the ship. Later, she

1:19:16

sketched it. She said she was told that

1:19:18

the heavy lines marked regular trade

1:19:20

routes

1:19:21

and And the broken lines recorded

1:19:23

various space expeditions. The following

1:19:25

year, the map seen at right was

1:19:28

published in the New York Times. Mrs.

1:19:30

Hill, struck by the similarity between

1:19:32

the Times map and her sketch, then added

1:19:34

the corresponding names.

1:19:36

Yeah. And it ended up being the Zeta

1:19:39

Reticuli binary star system, which was

1:19:43

really interesting. And I remember when

1:19:44

I first heard about Bob's story back in

1:19:46

1989, and he said Zeta Reticuli.

1:19:50

I remember thinking, "Wow, that's what

1:19:53

Betty Hill saw." So, that made me also

1:19:55

question, "Is that real in that

1:19:57

document? Did Did these guys really come

1:20:00

from there?"

1:20:01

You know, because it was mentioned in

1:20:03

1968.

1:20:05

Right. So, why would the government, the

1:20:07

US Navy,

1:20:09

write that in there that would correlate

1:20:11

to something that we already kind of

1:20:13

knew? I think that was a a purposeful

1:20:17

disinformation

1:20:18

>> [snorts]

1:20:18

>> to disinform someone. I think so. But,

1:20:21

why? If maybe it's true.

1:20:23

Yeah, go ahead. We'll we'll we'll pause

1:20:25

right here and use the restroom. We'll

1:20:26

be right back, folks. I really got to I

1:20:28

got it. No worries. No worries. We'll be

1:20:29

right back.

1:20:31

Um we were talking about this whole Zeta

1:20:33

Reticuli thing. So,

1:20:37

when you're dealing with so many

1:20:39

different crafts and so many different

1:20:41

things, the idea that only one

1:20:44

species or one thing more advanced than

1:20:47

us is visiting us seems kind of silly.

1:20:50

If the universe is populated by all

1:20:52

these things.

1:20:54

I don't know. Does it?

1:20:57

That's it.

1:20:57

>> Kind of.

1:20:58

Kind of.

1:20:59

>> the universe is really big. I do Do you

1:21:01

think everybody can find this place? I

1:21:04

mean,

1:21:04

>> Yeah.

1:21:05

I would imagine um it's like spots that

1:21:08

you visit. Like uh you know, there's

1:21:10

Machu Picchu, there's ancient Egypt,

1:21:13

there's you know, sub-Saharan Africa.

1:21:16

There's a bunch of different places

1:21:17

where people go.

1:21:18

You know, just humans on Earth. And I

1:21:20

would imagine if you have an

1:21:22

understanding of how life is evolving in

1:21:24

the cosmos,

1:21:26

you there's probably stages where things

1:21:28

reach certain levels. And if you are a

1:21:32

>> far apart.

1:21:33

>> Right?

1:21:33

>> They're far apart. I mean, one could be

1:21:35

in this quadrant of the

1:21:37

Milky Way galaxy, and they reach that

1:21:40

point where they can travel and explore.

1:21:43

Mhm. And there's

1:21:45

a far distant point where another

1:21:48

civilization civilization can do that.

1:21:50

And I mean, really, do you think there

1:21:53

are that many? I don't think there are

1:21:54

that many civilizations visiting us.

1:21:57

There's certainly There's no doubt that

1:21:59

there's one from somewhere on another

1:22:02

planet, another time, another dimension,

1:22:04

whatever it may be.

1:22:06

Someone else is here. We're not the top,

1:22:11

you know, of the pyramid. No.

1:22:13

>> We're absolutely not there. There's no

1:22:15

question.

1:22:17

Well, I think if you got technology that

1:22:21

say, let's let's just say the Grays.

1:22:23

Let's say the Grays are real. Let's say

1:22:24

they fly around these little crafts.

1:22:26

Why would we assume that it stops there?

1:22:28

Why wouldn't we assume the technology

1:22:29

gets to the point where not only are

1:22:31

they far more advanced than them, but

1:22:34

they also are completely undetectable?

1:22:36

Well, if you want to view the universe

1:22:37

as infinite, Yeah. then it then it never

1:22:40

stops.

1:22:40

>> It scales out. There's somebody above

1:22:42

them, and there's somebody above them,

1:22:44

and there's somebody above them, and it

1:22:45

never stops.

1:22:46

>> watching this lecture where this woman

1:22:48

was talking about quantum entanglement,

1:22:50

and she was talking about how maybe our

1:22:53

understanding of space and the distance

1:22:55

between things is limited by what our

1:23:00

our current

1:23:01

technology is and our current

1:23:03

understanding of what what space and

1:23:06

time actually are. And she What she was

1:23:09

saying yeah. What she was saying is

1:23:10

there might not be we might at one point

1:23:14

in time, given enough time, thousands of

1:23:16

years, whatever, be able to

1:23:18

instantaneously travel anywhere.

1:23:20

And that just how like

1:23:23

quantum like like like subatomic

1:23:25

particles are connected in some sort of

1:23:26

a strange way that we don't totally

1:23:28

understand even at far distance spooky

1:23:29

action at a distance, right?

1:23:31

>> As Einstein said, yeah.

1:23:32

>> Right. That we might eventually get to a

1:23:34

point where that's how travel works.

1:23:35

That's instantaneous travel everywhere.

1:23:38

I think we just have hints of these

1:23:40

technologies. Look, everything

1:23:43

you know, we look at Maxwell's equations

1:23:45

and things like that that we base all

1:23:48

electromagnetic, electrostatic,

1:23:50

you know, um

1:23:52

actions on and how they relate to time

1:23:57

and how they relate to things in our

1:23:59

universe, but

1:24:01

uh

1:24:02

that may be nothing. There There may be

1:24:05

an entire level of physics that we're

1:24:07

unfamiliar with that you know, these

1:24:10

crafts, these people, or these

1:24:12

civilizations

1:24:13

just utilize.

1:24:18

Um

1:24:20

Of course. I mean, if you just stop and

1:24:22

think about going from Morse code to a

1:24:26

cell phone

1:24:27

in a relatively short period of time

1:24:29

historically. You go to the the

1:24:31

difference between 1200 and 1400 is not

1:24:34

that big of a deal in terms of

1:24:36

technology, what's available. The

1:24:38

difference between 1800 and 2026 is

1:24:42

massive.

1:24:43

>> Yeah, right. Yeah. It is a massive crazy

1:24:46

change, right? So, 2026 to

1:24:50

2226,

1:24:52

who knows what we're talking

1:24:54

about.

1:24:55

>> Right. Especially when you have sentient

1:24:57

AI, you have nuclear power plants that

1:25:00

are controlling sentient AI that are

1:25:02

fueling them and giving them resources.

1:25:05

I mean,

1:25:07

you really have no limit to where this

1:25:09

goes. You scale out a thousand years.

1:25:12

You scale out two thousand years.

1:25:13

>> You really can't scale out a thousand

1:25:15

years. Right. It's not possible.

1:25:17

>> even at a hundred years, it's way Yeah.

1:25:21

Too much.

1:25:22

>> way more than we would would have ever

1:25:23

considered. Also, it's exponential,

1:25:25

right? Right. That's That's why you

1:25:27

can't scale out to a thousand years.

1:25:29

>> you think it's exponential now, imagine

1:25:31

when you have AI able to generate better

1:25:33

versions of itself, which is what's

1:25:35

happening with ChatGPT 5. It's

1:25:37

essentially made by ChatGPT 4. Now, I AI

1:25:41

is that absolutely the death of us.

1:25:43

There's

1:25:44

>> [laughter]

1:25:44

>> There's no There's no question. Well,

1:25:47

we're certainly going to become obsolete

1:25:49

in terms of our thinking.

1:25:51

But,

1:25:51

>> If we're obsolete in terms of our

1:25:53

thinking, we're obsolete.

1:25:55

I mean, all all AI needs is hands,

1:25:58

right? I think we integrate.

1:26:01

That's what I think happens.

1:26:03

Yeah.

1:26:04

That's a scary

1:26:04

>> And And And that's a Yeah, I was going

1:26:06

to say, and that's a scary thought.

1:26:08

That's a scary thought because it's like

1:26:09

we're going to integrate. I think it's

1:26:11

inevitable. I think you're right about

1:26:12

that. We're just going there. It's It's

1:26:14

not like

1:26:15

even if you and I are not going to

1:26:16

actually do it, somebody will, and it's

1:26:18

going to integrate because other people

1:26:20

will, and it's going to happen. But,

1:26:21

it's still the same primate. We're still

1:26:23

the same human. Sort of, but we we

1:26:25

already have problems with joints, and

1:26:27

so we replace them with fake ones. We

1:26:29

you know, take titanium knees and you

1:26:32

know, Yeah, but they don't work as good.

1:26:34

They don't for now. Yeah. But, before

1:26:36

they used to not work at all. Like, you

1:26:38

know,

1:26:39

I've met people that had surgeries in

1:26:41

the 1980s, like knee surgeries, and oh

1:26:44

my god,

1:26:45

they're crippled for life. Even though

1:26:47

they put your knee back together again,

1:26:49

it's still destroyed.

1:26:50

>> Mhm. You know, you get a knee surgery

1:26:51

today, six months later, you're a

1:26:52

hundred percent. No, I'd I'd love to

1:26:55

know the future. Yeah. Well, it's going

1:26:56

to I'd love to know the future. Well,

1:26:57

that is

1:26:58

So, one of the things that I want to

1:27:00

talk about is the the actual

1:27:03

the generator, this thing that works on

1:27:07

this element that bombards it with

1:27:09

radiation. How did you guys figure out

1:27:14

what the function of it was and what it

1:27:16

did? So, when you're first introduced to

1:27:18

this craft, and you see

1:27:21

this this dome

1:27:24

>> reactor that's covering this this thing

1:27:27

that's generating this power. What What

1:27:30

was

1:27:31

What was the introduction to it? How did

1:27:32

they explain it to you?

1:27:33

>> The introduction was was way before me.

1:27:36

Um

1:27:38

and

1:27:39

that's where the guy

1:27:41

prior to me either got hurt or killed.

1:27:44

So,

1:27:46

they determined that this was the power

1:27:48

source.

1:27:50

And at some point

1:27:53

they decided to take that out to the

1:27:55

nuclear test site because they wanted to

1:27:57

cut into it.

1:27:59

Um they x-rayed it. They They only found

1:28:03

a small tube that ran went around it.

1:28:05

They really couldn't determine how it

1:28:07

worked or what was going on. So,

1:28:11

at some point and and Barry made this

1:28:17

somewhat clear that they cut into the

1:28:21

reactor while it was running

1:28:26

or or while it was under load, I should

1:28:28

say.

1:28:29

And the reactor exploded.

1:28:32

That's what killed or hurt the person

1:28:35

that I replaced.

1:28:37

But,

1:28:39

um it produced

1:28:42

the

1:28:44

the base gravitational wave or base

1:28:46

energy that provided that propelled the

1:28:49

craft that provided the craft the

1:28:52

propulsion. I mean, when they removed

1:28:54

it, the craft didn't work. When they put

1:28:55

it in, every single other craft they

1:28:58

found had something either exactly like

1:29:00

it or similar to it. So,

1:29:03

uh

1:29:03

they determined that was the power

1:29:05

source. That's at the point that I was

1:29:07

introduced into the project. So, when

1:29:09

you say gravitational wave, is that for

1:29:12

lack of a better term, or is it

1:29:14

something that's measured? Is it

1:29:15

>> No, it's a it's for lack of a better

1:29:17

term. Like there there's nothing I mean

1:29:19

uh as I said in Luigi's movie, you can

1:29:22

take magnets with like poles and push

1:29:24

them together and they repel, but you

1:29:26

can't take your hands ever and push on

1:29:29

something and they repel them. That's a

1:29:31

force field, right? That's science

1:29:32

fiction stuff. But that's what this did.

1:29:36

And this produced a field that repelled

1:29:40

the craft from the ground.

1:29:42

>> Did you try to touch it? Yeah, yeah. And

1:29:44

when you try to touch it What did you

1:29:45

feel? I

1:29:47

an elastic field. You can push down, but

1:29:50

you can't get close to it. The closer

1:29:52

you get to it, the the more it pushes

1:29:55

back. So

1:29:56

you can Like how much distance between

1:29:58

you and the actual thing you were able

1:30:00

to see it?

1:30:01

>> would say about 6 in or so? Uh maybe

1:30:04

about 9 in,

1:30:06

which is about a span.

1:30:08

And

1:30:10

um

1:30:11

No, it's

1:30:13

at some point you you can't push back on

1:30:15

it at all, but the important thing is

1:30:19

if you have a magnet

1:30:21

a little disc magnet sitting on the

1:30:24

ground

1:30:25

and you have another magnet and you push

1:30:29

on it, that magnet moves away, right?

1:30:32

Yeah.

1:30:32

>> Cuz it's pushing on it.

1:30:35

But the craft didn't. The reactor

1:30:38

didn't. If you had the craft it the

1:30:40

reactor there and you pushed back on it

1:30:42

it didn't push away when you pushed on

1:30:45

it. It just prevented you from touching

1:30:47

it.

1:30:47

>> Yeah, and so when Dennis said go go out

1:30:50

there and look under the craft

1:30:52

um here's the craft

1:30:57

whatever it weighs

1:30:58

suspending itself above the ground and I

1:31:00

went underneath it, you would think it's

1:31:03

translating its weight onto the ground

1:31:06

and pushing and I should be

1:31:08

squashed.

1:31:08

>> Squashed but without any doubt, but I'm

1:31:12

not. There's no feeling there at all. So

1:31:15

it's not translating its weight or its

1:31:18

push to the ground and pushing off the

1:31:21

ground, it's just canceling out its

1:31:24

weight, which is something completely

1:31:26

different.

1:31:27

Mhm.

1:31:29

And so

1:31:30

when

1:31:31

so element 115

1:31:33

um so you have it in this triangle shape

1:31:36

form. Mhm. Did you ask how they got into

1:31:40

a triangle shape form? Was it made like

1:31:43

this? This is how it came in the

1:31:44

reactor. I did, but I mean it only

1:31:46

worked like that. It worked like a stack

1:31:49

of this discs and had to be cut at a

1:31:51

certain angle to work in the reactor.

1:31:54

And And did they say they cut it or did

1:31:57

they say it was already cut?

1:31:59

Well, it was already cut and they were

1:32:00

duplicating it. Pull that microphone up

1:32:02

to you. So they they were duplicating

1:32:05

it. Did they have more of it, this

1:32:08

element?

1:32:08

>> Yeah, yeah, they had quite a bit of it.

1:32:10

So either there was a quantity in other

1:32:13

other crafts or other reactors that they

1:32:16

removed. Yeah.

1:32:19

But was there any discussion that there

1:32:21

had been some sort of an exchange where

1:32:23

they had been giving this? No.

1:32:25

So one of the things like do you know

1:32:26

Diana Pasulka?

1:32:28

She's an author that's written some

1:32:30

interesting stuff about UFOs and she's

1:32:33

worked with Gary Nolan and you know on

1:32:36

material recollection from supposed

1:32:38

crash crash sites.

1:32:40

And

1:32:41

she said that the way these researchers

1:32:44

refer to these crafts they refer to them

1:32:47

as donations.

1:32:49

And I guess that's possible. Right.

1:32:52

Well, doesn't it make sense if if this

1:32:54

thing crashed, why is it perfect? Why is

1:32:57

it not destroyed? Look, I I've heard so

1:32:59

many I'm not into UFOs Right, which is

1:33:02

hilarious.

1:33:04

>> Yeah, that's that's crazy.

1:33:06

Um I'm just interested in the technology

1:33:08

and I feel very privileged to have been

1:33:11

involved in the project. But um

1:33:16

I don't know. I I I I don't I don't

1:33:18

think

1:33:19

I don't think there can be that many

1:33:21

crashes, do you? No.

1:33:23

>> technology, you think they're coming to

1:33:25

Earth and just there's a

1:33:27

a thunderstorm and they're crashing into

1:33:29

the ground. I'm not I'm not buying that.

1:33:31

>> There's one logical explanation that

1:33:34

does actually make sense. There were

1:33:36

some high altitude nuclear tests that

1:33:39

they did.

1:33:40

And

1:33:41

>> Well, there was the Teak test, you know,

1:33:43

back in the '60s.

1:33:44

>> Starfish Prime. And Starfish Prime,

1:33:46

right.

1:33:46

>> Yeah. Um

1:33:48

if you had no idea that this was about

1:33:50

to happen and you were hovering over

1:33:51

Earth observing us.

1:33:53

>> What are the chances? I mean what are

1:33:55

the chances? They're not very high.

1:33:57

>> Yeah, they're not very I mean what are

1:33:59

the chances a craft is coming over and

1:34:00

they did a nuclear test that exact

1:34:03

second? Unless there's a lot more

1:34:06

observation than we know. And that they

1:34:10

just

1:34:11

observe us in a way that we can't see

1:34:13

them. As especially if you're going back

1:34:15

to the 1950s and 1960s

1:34:17

we have very few satellites. We have

1:34:19

very That was the nuclear cowboy era.

1:34:22

>> Yeah. Where they were just Well, they

1:34:24

just

1:34:25

Starfish Prime, explain to people what

1:34:26

they did. Yeah.

1:34:28

I they did a 1.4 megaton, you know

1:34:32

detonation up there and just

1:34:34

I think all they did let's see what

1:34:36

happens if we blow it up at this

1:34:38

altitude. I mean that's crazy. You know,

1:34:40

there was another

1:34:42

test planned to blow up on the moon.

1:34:45

Just just to make the Russians look uh

1:34:48

you know like [laughter]

1:34:50

like we were awesome. Um

1:34:54

you know. But they

1:34:56

>> Detonate the moon. What if they pushed

1:34:58

it away and it up our orbit?

1:35:00

Yeah, I think that would take a lot

1:35:01

more. I know. I mean there was really I

1:35:04

I don't remember what the uh

1:35:07

the project

1:35:08

Project A119.

1:35:10

>> Oh, A119, that was it. Yeah, I

1:35:12

>> Study of lunar research flights.

1:35:14

Detonate nuclear Yeah, I I can't pull up

1:35:17

these numbers, but yeah, A project

1:35:19

A111A. Crazy. Yeah, we're going to do

1:35:22

that. Because then like everybody on

1:35:24

Earth could just go outside and look at

1:35:26

the moon get blown up. And the

1:35:30

>> [laughter]

1:35:30

>> the explosion would be faintly visible

1:35:32

to the human eye to people on Earth.

1:35:34

>> Yeah. Wow.

1:35:35

>> I still think they should have done

1:35:36

that. But um

1:35:38

>> [laughter]

1:35:39

>> Yeah, but you're you're the guy that put

1:35:40

a jet engine in the back of a Honda.

1:35:42

Like let's see

1:35:44

>> think they should detonate a nuclear

1:35:46

bomb on the 4th of July every year.

1:35:48

But that's just me.

1:35:50

Um Well, also you live in Nevada

1:35:52

>> [laughter]

1:35:52

>> and it's more you're used to it at

1:35:53

least. It had a long history of them

1:35:55

doing that.

1:35:57

Yeah, oh man. So going back to this uh

1:36:00

reactor.

1:36:01

So

1:36:03

did how was it explained to you? Did

1:36:05

they explain to you how the technology

1:36:08

works or what they know about it? Like

1:36:11

Now, the way it was explained to me is

1:36:13

is

1:36:15

when I got to be alone with Barry, he

1:36:17

said he was excited to show this to me.

1:36:20

He said I'm going to turn this is the

1:36:22

reactor that we assume powers the craft.

1:36:25

Sorry. No worries. I'm uh

1:36:28

I'm going to uh show you the reactor

1:36:30

that powers the craft. And he turned it

1:36:33

on.

1:36:34

Small little dome on a flat little

1:36:36

plate.

1:36:37

I said Was this in the craft or was this

1:36:39

on a table?

1:36:40

>> this is in the experimental area. Okay.

1:36:43

And um So this was not the one that was

1:36:45

in the sport craft, this was another

1:36:46

one. This was another one.

1:36:48

>> This is it right here.

1:36:49

>> that's it. That's it. Okay, that's in

1:36:50

the film.

1:36:51

>> And yeah, on on the table and he had it

1:36:54

there and he went over

1:36:56

to the emitter and rotated it and he

1:36:59

said try and touch it.

1:37:01

And I put my hand on it and it it

1:37:03

rebounded off. And I

1:37:06

at the closer you got to it, the more it

1:37:08

pushed back.

1:37:09

And um that's that's a real shock

1:37:12

because there's nothing that pushes back

1:37:14

like that. That that's a that's a living

1:37:16

force field, that's science fiction

1:37:17

stuff.

1:37:18

So

1:37:19

um that really got my attention. So

1:37:22

explain what is happening like in terms

1:37:25

of the rotation of this thing?

1:37:28

Like what it what is happening? Like

1:37:29

what energy is going into it that's

1:37:31

causing it to go on? Well, actually we

1:37:33

don't know that.

1:37:35

I mean that that's the whole thing. It's

1:37:38

it's pushing back. That's a

1:37:40

it's a repulsive gravitational field.

1:37:43

Like as far as we know gravity gravity

1:37:47

only has an attractive force to it.

1:37:49

We've never even with any matter

1:37:52

we've analyzed it and it still has

1:37:55

an attractive force to it. There's no

1:37:57

repulsive force that we've discovered.

1:38:01

Because that would be a great propulsion

1:38:03

system.

1:38:04

But this repulsed.

1:38:07

So this was a a new field completely.

1:38:10

>> But how was he turning it on? He had

1:38:13

the emitter, which is a big pipe. Part

1:38:15

of What is an emitter? Like what is

1:38:20

The craft itself has on the main level

1:38:24

has the reactor

1:38:26

and what we call the amplifiers. Three

1:38:28

react the reactor and three amplifiers.

1:38:31

Right underneath that

1:38:33

there are three emitters

1:38:36

that are right under the amplifiers. And

1:38:38

we believe the energy

1:38:41

from the reactor is amplified by the

1:38:43

emitters.

1:38:45

And By the amplifiers. By the

1:38:47

amplifiers, sorry. And transmitted to

1:38:50

the emitters.

1:38:52

And they produce this field that lifts

1:38:54

the craft off the ground.

1:38:56

And that's how it works. But there is

1:38:58

nothing

1:39:00

nothing even in our physics or our

1:39:02

science that

1:39:04

that correlates to that at all.

1:39:06

>> And what is the energy that's going to

1:39:08

them that causes it to turn on? don't

1:39:10

>> I mean we just assume it's gravity

1:39:12

because it's the only thing we know like

1:39:14

that, but

1:39:16

it has a negative gravity effect. So,

1:39:21

it might be a new force entirely.

1:39:23

But when you were saying, so you have

1:39:25

this machine that's next to it that you

1:39:28

do something to that causes it to turn

1:39:30

on. The emitter. The right. There's the

1:39:33

amplifier and there's the emitter which

1:39:35

looks like a big pipe. Right. And if you

1:39:37

rotate the emitter, I don't remember how

1:39:40

many degrees was it? 20 degrees?

1:39:42

>> Three 20 degrees or something like that.

1:39:45

That connects it in some way

1:39:49

to

1:39:50

the reactor and it begins to be powered.

1:39:53

>> And what is the emitter doing?

1:39:56

It emits that field.

1:39:59

It's not a gravitate

1:40:00

It could be a gravitational field, but

1:40:02

it's an anti-gravitational field that

1:40:04

pushes on the ground. And what's

1:40:07

happening in the emitter? Did you study

1:40:08

the emitter? Well, we attempted to, but

1:40:10

no.

1:40:12

There was nothing that we really came up

1:40:13

with that.

1:40:15

But what does it look like? Like what's

1:40:16

the internal structure of it?

1:40:18

>> It's just it's a hollow pipe with

1:40:22

I guess

1:40:24

little copper colored plates all inside.

1:40:27

It's kind of in the in the film. Mhm. Um

1:40:32

But this

1:40:33

I mean, these guys have been working on

1:40:36

it for years before I got there and

1:40:38

there was really no

1:40:41

no concept of what they were doing.

1:40:44

Did they explain to you why element 115

1:40:47

is crucial to this working and what

1:40:49

>> No, but

1:40:50

no.

1:40:52

So, element 115 um

1:40:55

was

1:40:56

not even really discussed back when you

1:40:58

were doing this. It was

1:40:59

It wasn't even discovered or proven

1:41:02

physically until it was a large hadron

1:41:06

collider experiment in the 2000s, right?

1:41:10

No, I know they they synthesized that.

1:41:13

But look, and you know, in in any

1:41:15

element there's always

1:41:19

there's always a large amount of

1:41:23

um

1:41:24

Well, it did It doesn't decay.

1:41:26

Yeah.

1:41:28

That was the thing about in the large

1:41:30

hadron collider experiment, they they

1:41:32

were able to achieve it, but it only

1:41:34

existed for a few milliseconds. Yeah.

1:41:37

Sorry, I've had too much. No worries.

1:41:42

So,

1:41:42

>> um

1:41:44

did they

1:41:45

How did they define this material?

1:41:48

>> I mean, there's different isotopes of of

1:41:51

every element.

1:41:52

And

1:41:54

element 115, just like any other

1:41:56

element,

1:41:57

uh there can be a stable version of it

1:42:00

and a hundred or 50 different unstable

1:42:04

elements to them.

1:42:06

So,

1:42:08

>> [sighs]

1:42:11

>> I'm sorry. No, no, it's all right. Just

1:42:13

try to

1:42:14

continue the train of thought. So, It's

1:42:16

basically different isotopes of it.

1:42:18

Yeah, different isotopes. I've I need to

1:42:21

stop drinking this.

1:42:22

>> [laughter]

1:42:23

>> It's all right. Have a cup of coffee.

1:42:26

I can't even remember. Yeah, so coffee's

1:42:28

good. Oh, we got coffee.

1:42:30

Oh my god.

1:42:31

All right. Holy cow. There you go. Let

1:42:34

it hop. Um Yeah, there's I mean, there's

1:42:37

there's different isotopes. And you were

1:42:38

able to physically touch this element

1:42:41

Oh, absolutely. I was physically

1:42:45

physically able to touch the element.

1:42:47

Yeah. But when you're physically able to

1:42:48

touch it, there's no adverse effects. It

1:42:50

doesn't have any effect on the Feel like

1:42:52

metal? Does it feel like plastic?

1:42:55

>> It looks copper like. I mean, maybe it's

1:42:58

not as dark as copper is, but it it's

1:43:01

that color. Um

1:43:04

and

1:43:06

uh I haven't seen an element like that.

1:43:08

It has unique properties that other

1:43:10

elements don't have. It produces

1:43:14

an anti-gravitational field.

1:43:17

When combined with energy.

1:43:20

With some kind of energy it produces

1:43:21

this field.

1:43:22

>> Yeah.

1:43:23

And was it understood what is happening?

1:43:25

Like what is the relationship between

1:43:27

this element and this Like how is What

1:43:30

is going on?

1:43:32

Like you're bombarding this element with

1:43:34

something? Yeah, I

1:43:36

From what we understood, we x-rayed the

1:43:39

reactor itself

1:43:41

and there was a path around it

1:43:44

that looked It made it look like a

1:43:46

cyclotron. So,

1:43:49

it looked like

1:43:50

there was an accelerator.

1:43:52

So, when they were explaining it to you,

1:43:56

is is is this just your work partner

1:43:59

that's explaining this stuff to you?

1:44:01

>> Yes, it's it's just Barry that's

1:44:02

explaining

1:44:02

>> And did you ask him, how do you know

1:44:04

this? Where are you getting this from?

1:44:06

Is this

1:44:07

Yeah, he got this information prior to

1:44:09

me.

1:44:10

Um

1:44:11

and they x-rayed it,

1:44:14

found

1:44:16

um a a structure in there to where they

1:44:19

believed it was an accelerator and it

1:44:21

was interacting

1:44:23

the point of the one The 115 is in a

1:44:26

little triangular

1:44:28

piece Mhm. and it was um interacting

1:44:32

with that in some fashion. So,

1:44:35

And did he say whether or not the United

1:44:39

States government or whoever was doing

1:44:41

this research had tried to recreate one

1:44:43

of those on their own?

1:44:45

That uh that was our job to try to

1:44:47

recreate one of those on their own. But

1:44:49

what was the metal that it was made out

1:44:51

of?

1:44:52

We don't know. We don't know.

1:44:53

>> Again, the metallurgy was not that was

1:44:56

not

1:44:58

It seems insane that you couldn't

1:44:59

communicate to them that whatever this

1:45:02

stuff is made out of, this whole thing

1:45:05

acts as one cohesive unit. It's not like

1:45:07

you could make the same exact thing with

1:45:09

aluminum or carbon fiber.

1:45:11

>> No, you can't. This thing acted

1:45:13

differently.

1:45:14

This thing acted differently than any

1:45:16

material that we knew.

1:45:18

And I mean, I think all the answers are

1:45:21

in the metallurgy guys. It you know,

1:45:23

that's That's who knew what was going

1:45:26

on, who was able to provide the answers.

1:45:29

But um

1:45:31

as far as we knew, if we didn't have the

1:45:34

connection with those other groups, we

1:45:36

weren't really going to make any

1:45:37

progress.

1:45:38

You were speculating that there was a

1:45:41

type of

1:45:43

metallic alloy that would work better

1:45:46

with

1:45:48

this concept. Was it Byzantine? Like

1:45:52

what what was

1:45:52

>> Bismuth. Bismuth, yes.

1:45:55

Did I say that?

1:45:56

>> think so. I don't know. I don't think

1:45:58

so. No. Someone Someone that I talked to

1:46:00

was explaining to me.

1:46:01

>> It's related to on the periodic table. I

1:46:03

mean, bismuth is above it and 115 is

1:46:06

below it. But um we never did see any

1:46:09

correlation between bismuth. This was a

1:46:12

completely new material. Well, I think

1:46:13

Oh, that's what it was. Oh, this is what

1:46:15

it was. So, one of the pieces that Gary

1:46:18

Nolan had [clears throat] found that was

1:46:21

Gary Nolan is the guy to Stanford that

1:46:24

has examined these pieces that are from

1:46:27

supposedly crashed sites crash sites

1:46:31

where something had gone down and

1:46:33

scattered.

1:46:34

Some of these pieces, they're atomically

1:46:36

layered and

1:46:38

>> I've heard that.

1:46:39

>> magnesium and bismuth seem to be

1:46:41

prevalent in this.

1:46:42

>> Bismuth is the thing. Yeah. Bismuth is

1:46:44

the thing. It's right above 115 on the

1:46:46

periodic chart and there's Yeah, there's

1:46:49

something about that. There's something

1:46:50

about 115. Yeah. There's weird magnetism

1:46:53

stuff with bismuth. There's a video from

1:46:55

the Action Lab, The Strange Magnetism of

1:46:57

Bismuth. And it's showing a bunch of

1:47:01

>> Yeah.

1:47:02

So, let him play it out a little bit.

1:47:05

I'm trying to find the

1:47:06

What is diamagnetic?

1:47:08

>> Diamagnetic is it opposes magnetic

1:47:10

fields. I see.

1:47:12

So, it kind of makes sense if they're

1:47:14

finding these pieces that are

1:47:18

the way he was explaining

1:47:19

>> Bismuth. That's bismuth, yeah. the way

1:47:20

he's explaining this whatever this alloy

1:47:23

was, this very small piece that was

1:47:24

found, I believe in

1:47:27

prior to the 1970s. I don't remember the

1:47:29

exact date that he said. From one of

1:47:30

these crash One of them was from Brazil

1:47:32

that they had recovered. And someone had

1:47:34

gotten possession of it in the 1990s and

1:47:37

someone had gotten it eventually to Gary

1:47:39

Nolan.

1:47:40

He said that to create this on Earth,

1:47:42

first of all, it can't be done with

1:47:44

current technology. We don't have the

1:47:45

ability to do this.

1:47:47

>> technology?

1:47:48

>> Yes. And that it would cost billions of

1:47:50

dollars

1:47:51

just theoretically to make this and it's

1:47:54

It doesn't exist.

1:47:57

Yeah, this is it. Alleged

1:47:58

extraterrestrial metal the bottom of a

1:48:00

wedge shaped craft in 1940s. 26

1:48:03

alternating layers, 1 to 4 microns dark

1:48:06

bismuth

1:48:08

with a hundred to two hundred microns of

1:48:10

silver magnesium zinc alloy. Each piece

1:48:13

received from the US Army source were

1:48:15

formed with a curvature that tapered.

1:48:18

Oh, in the four in the 40s. Yeah. Right.

1:48:21

That good good luck making that in the

1:48:22

40s.

1:48:23

>> says a wedge

1:48:24

wedge shaped craft in late 1940s. That's

1:48:26

Roswell. I mean, that's that's Roswell.

1:48:29

Well, I mean, what What does it do? I

1:48:32

would like to see the test results of

1:48:34

just the material.

1:48:36

Um we can make that now.

1:48:39

We can?

1:48:40

Yeah. 1 to 4 microns of bismuth?

1:48:43

200 microns of silver? Yeah.

1:48:47

The thing is like making something like

1:48:48

that in the 1940s is absolutely

1:48:50

impossible.

1:48:50

>> in the 40s, forget it.

1:48:52

>> But I mean, now we could fabricate

1:48:54

something like that.

1:48:55

>> And it would cost a shitload of money.

1:48:56

So, like the idea that you would make

1:48:58

something like that and just scatter it

1:48:59

around and go, But what But what does it

1:49:01

do? Right. What does it do? Why? Why is

1:49:04

magnesium and bismuth why in that

1:49:06

particular

1:49:08

>> There is something about Bismuth.

1:49:10

There was something about Bismuth. But

1:49:12

that's that's why it's so fascinating. I

1:49:13

would I would love to know where they

1:49:15

Like it's been 40 years. I would love to

1:49:18

know Where they're at now. Yeah, where

1:49:19

they're at now. If they continued.

1:49:22

Well, they had to have continued. I

1:49:23

can't I can't imagine you go, "Ah, we're

1:49:24

done."

1:49:26

No, I mean they might have moved it. I

1:49:28

mean like I like I said before I mean

1:49:29

they were anxious to move it out of

1:49:31

there at that time.

1:49:32

But Are you aware of

1:49:35

the labyrinths in Egypt that they

1:49:39

discovered?

1:49:41

So, there's this

1:49:42

>> Are you talking about the The columns.

1:49:44

Columns on the

1:49:45

>> no. This is unrelated. This is something

1:49:47

different. So, Herodotus discussed this.

1:49:49

Now, my friend Ben Van Kerkwijk, he has

1:49:52

UnchartedX on

1:49:54

YouTube. It's an amazing channel where

1:49:56

he was a tech guy who just got

1:49:59

absolutely fascinated by all these

1:50:02

stories of ancient history and really

1:50:03

got obsessed with Egypt and Peru and and

1:50:07

left his field and started making these

1:50:09

incredible videos. But he's highly

1:50:12

intelligent incredibly articulate. And

1:50:14

so these videos are just absolutely

1:50:16

fantastic and really uh

1:50:20

he's he's

1:50:22

very well versed scientifically so you

1:50:24

can understand these things and explain

1:50:26

them to you. Like they're examining like

1:50:29

the construction of the pyramids and the

1:50:31

whatever technology was used to carve

1:50:33

the stones and there's just so much of

1:50:36

it that is like confusing because it's

1:50:38

it clearly is like a very high level of

1:50:42

sophistication and technology that's

1:50:43

involved in creating these things. Well,

1:50:45

Herodotus described these labyrinths

1:50:48

that were underground in Giza. Not not

1:50:51

not in Giza, but Hawara? Is that where

1:50:53

it was?

1:50:54

Jimmy will find it. But this these the

1:50:58

way Herodotus described it he said they

1:51:00

were far superior and more impressive

1:51:03

than the the the pyramids of Giza.

1:51:06

Underground. Well, these massive

1:51:10

labyrinths that exist underground were

1:51:12

all flooded in the 1960s accidentally

1:51:15

when they created dams in order to

1:51:18

provide irrigation to agriculture that

1:51:21

was in the area. So, they changed the

1:51:22

water table, it up. This whole

1:51:24

area got flooded.

1:51:25

>> Did they know they were there when they

1:51:27

accidentally

1:51:28

>> because a lot of this stuff like this is

1:51:30

from thousands and thousands of years

1:51:31

ago. A lot of it was covered over with

1:51:33

sand and you know, there had there had

1:51:35

been some explorers a long time ago that

1:51:38

went there and saw some of what was in

1:51:40

there. But the way Herodotus described

1:51:42

it it's just absolutely fantastic.

1:51:45

So, then they started using ground

1:51:46

penetrating radar. And they started

1:51:49

using these various technologies that

1:51:50

could detect what was under the surface.

1:51:52

And one of the things that they found

1:51:54

was there's a massive atrium. And inside

1:51:57

this atrium yes.

1:51:58

>> There is a 40 m long metallic object

1:52:03

that is inside this atrium.

1:52:06

40 m of some unknown metal. How deep is

1:52:09

it?

1:52:10

I believe it's 100 m into the ground.

1:52:13

So, you're telling me ground penetrating

1:52:15

radar can get to 100 m underground and

1:52:18

>> that

1:52:19

Filippo Bondi has used from satellites

1:52:22

The one that we were talking about.

1:52:23

>> more than a kilometer into the ground.

1:52:26

And

1:52:27

>> With decent resolution? Well, No. not

1:52:30

decent resolution, but enough that you

1:52:32

could see symmetry. Enough that they can

1:52:34

also detect things that are well known.

1:52:36

100 m is for chambers Well, listen to

1:52:38

this. They got they detected accurately

1:52:42

a particle collider in Italy that is

1:52:45

inside of a mountain 1.2 km below the

1:52:49

mountain. It sees through the mountain

1:52:51

and can detect this thing in the exact

1:52:53

diameter the exact

1:52:56

dimensions that this thing exist. So,

1:52:58

they can show you this

1:53:00

>> Yes. A particle collider? Yes. So, this

1:53:04

is a particle collider that they they

1:53:05

know exists, right? So, this is an

1:53:07

actual particle collider

1:53:08

>> looking for it just to prove So, they

1:53:10

they just it's just proof that this

1:53:11

technology is not just

1:53:12

>> Well, wait. I mean hang on. I mean how

1:53:15

do they know it's a particle collider?

1:53:16

>> No, no. Well, no, the particle collider

1:53:18

exists. This is a the the the Italians

1:53:20

have this particle collider. It it it

1:53:23

it's known. They made it. It's like it's

1:53:25

>> Okay, they they didn't detect something

1:53:27

underground. Right. No, it's not like we

1:53:29

found a particle collider that didn't

1:53:30

exist.

1:53:31

No, no, no, no. So, this [laughter]

1:53:32

particle collider they used this

1:53:34

technology to show that you can see

1:53:37

straight through this mountain to this

1:53:40

particle collider that's underneath the

1:53:41

mountain.

1:53:43

So, they know the the exact dimensions

1:53:44

of this particle collider. You can see

1:53:46

you can almost draw a schematic of it.

1:53:48

Well, through this technology they've

1:53:50

also found these columns that are below

1:53:52

the pyramids. These columns are 22 m 20

1:53:56

plus meters in diameter and they have

1:54:00

something that resembles coils around

1:54:03

all of them. And they're positioned at

1:54:05

various points all around where the

1:54:08

structure is. It goes all the way down

1:54:10

into hundreds of meters down and then it

1:54:12

goes to another structure and the whole

1:54:14

complex of it these structures goes to

1:54:17

over a kilometer into the ground.

1:54:19

>> But how can you see a kilometer

1:54:20

underground? Well, you would have to

1:54:22

understand this technology. What it it

1:54:24

was it called radio tomography? He

1:54:26

explained it to me.

1:54:28

>> aperture radar, right? Yes. Well,

1:54:31

whatever this technology

1:54:32

>> a kilometer underground at decent

1:54:34

resolution? It's not decent resolution,

1:54:36

but it's enough to understand the scope

1:54:38

of what it is. It's enough to understand

1:54:40

where spaces are Like everybody knows

1:54:42

about this but me. I mean

1:54:45

It's pretty fascinating. I'll send you

1:54:47

the podcast and I'll send you some of

1:54:49

his conferences where he was explaining

1:54:51

this to room fills with scientists.

1:54:54

>> You would think they'd be anxious to dig

1:54:55

this up.

1:54:56

>> They are.

1:54:57

And there's there's there's actual like

1:54:59

studies that are Okay. currently being

1:55:01

discussed. Well, they already know that

1:55:03

there's these channels that go in the

1:55:05

ground that have since been covered with

1:55:07

silt and sand because you know the the

1:55:10

sand's constantly moving. But these

1:55:11

things go hundreds of meters down these

1:55:13

shafts that go down. Like if they find

1:55:15

hundreds of If they find shafts hundreds

1:55:18

of meters down with coils around them

1:55:20

Look, that's advanced technology.

1:55:22

>> Exactly. This is the point. This is the

1:55:24

[clears throat] point.

1:55:25

Whatever this thing is that they have in

1:55:28

an atrium. Like if they said that they

1:55:29

got that craft from an archaeological

1:55:31

dig

1:55:33

I mean what

1:55:35

Maybe the Egyptians had found something

1:55:38

similar to this thousands and thousands

1:55:40

and thousands of years ago.

1:55:41

>> believe that's possible. Yeah.

1:55:44

Well,

1:55:45

The object that you're I didn't I

1:55:47

actually got to speak to Filippo Bondi

1:55:49

by the way.

1:55:50

He's in Italy he's in Rome we got to

1:55:52

speak I speak Italian so we got to talk

1:55:54

and we talked about that. I had no idea

1:55:56

they found something with a metal object

1:55:59

down there though. This is not Filippo

1:56:00

Bondi's work. This is some different

1:56:03

scientists that are just studying the

1:56:05

labyrinths. Jimmy, pull up some some of

1:56:07

the schematics of the labyrinth. So, in

1:56:10

the labyrinth there's like a big

1:56:12

>> Sorry.

1:56:13

atrium. You got to pee again? Yeah. Go

1:56:14

ahead. Go ahead.

1:56:15

>> Sorry. Head up. Yeah.

1:56:16

Go ahead. I feel like a ass.

1:56:17

>> Don't worry about it. Get some air.

1:56:20

Clear your head. I have a prostate. So,

1:56:22

in this in this labyrinth there's a

1:56:25

large atrium. And in this large atrium

1:56:28

there is essentially a Tic Tac

1:56:31

>> Really? a Tic Tac shaped object that is

1:56:35

40 m long that is of some unknown metal.

1:56:40

They don't know what it is. They don't

1:56:41

know how it works. But this is this

1:56:42

structure is all underground

1:56:46

in Egypt.

1:56:47

>> Which is wild because and how how it's

1:56:49

100 m? Well, look at Well, we'll get a

1:56:52

chance to look at it. This is Hawara.

1:56:54

So, So, there where it says the 40 m

1:56:57

metallic object. See that where it says

1:56:59

Hawara Rising?

1:57:00

>> Yeah. So, if you click on that it talks

1:57:02

about the 40 m metallic object

1:57:04

discovered in Egyptians.

1:57:07

I don't think I can't We can't read a

1:57:08

report on that.

1:57:09

>> Subterranean labyrinth. Yeah. This is

1:57:11

people talking about it.

1:57:11

>> Right. Got it. But so whatever it is,

1:57:15

you play out some of the video just so

1:57:16

we could talk about it.

1:57:18

>> [snorts]

1:57:19

>> So,

1:57:20

this this whole thing if you see some of

1:57:23

the images that they're discussing

1:57:25

friends Luis Dacordier will get into

1:57:27

images I think. And today we're

1:57:29

Yeah. about the work that I um Chicago

1:57:33

Huh. uh and the team that was in uh

1:57:36

Poland as well.

1:57:38

And at that point is when I had met the

1:57:40

person Lucinda Lubis

1:57:42

who later became my wife 6 months later.

1:57:46

So, yeah, you you actually

1:57:48

um

1:57:49

were working with the NRA G and then the

1:57:51

I don't know what they're talking about.

1:57:52

Yeah, that is not going to help us. But

1:57:54

if you could just go to some of the

1:57:56

images where they've sort of outlined

1:57:58

what it is.

1:57:59

>> find it. I That's

1:58:00

There is not a very clear image of the

1:58:02

metallic object that

1:58:04

they're talking

1:58:04

>> But just the labyrinth itself what they

1:58:06

think the structure of it was. That's

1:58:07

why I I don't know where they got this

1:58:08

from is also the other issue.

1:58:10

>> m mystery metal object that

1:58:12

>> That's a weird rendering that doesn't

1:58:14

usually come out from Right, but there's

1:58:15

some other drawings of like from the

1:58:18

Herodotus days and

1:58:19

>> Yeah, but I

1:58:20

Like so, this is what they think it

1:58:21

looks like under the ground.

1:58:24

>> [snorts]

1:58:25

>> Which is completely bonkers. And

1:58:27

if there is some 40 m metallic object

1:58:30

that's under the ground and we are

1:58:31

talking about like the sport model being

1:58:33

a part of an archaeological Right. They

1:58:35

might have found something back then

1:58:38

and worshiped that thing and had that

1:58:40

thing as like

1:58:41

>> They turned it into this. Right. As a

1:58:43

pyramid Yeah.

1:58:45

I I I I think there's something to that.

1:58:48

Well, there

1:58:49

you know, all these people that believe

1:58:51

that there was a incredibly advanced

1:58:53

civilization before some sort of

1:58:54

apocalyptic disaster that

1:58:57

reset civilization and it took thousands

1:59:00

of years. And what we are essentially is

1:59:03

not the first advanced civilization but

1:59:05

a rebuild. A rebuild thousands and

1:59:08

thousands and thousands of years later.

1:59:10

You know, that rings true with me. And

1:59:14

as Graham Hancock always says, we are a

1:59:16

species with amnesia. And I think that

1:59:18

makes sense. And I think if you're

1:59:20

dealing with people that were basically

1:59:22

knocked back into the Stone Age 11,000,

1:59:25

12,000 years ago and it took us forever

1:59:27

to rebuild to where we are now. I think

1:59:29

we've gone down a completely different

1:59:31

path than whatever the people that were

1:59:33

able to build the pyramids of Egypt and

1:59:35

all these fantastic megalithic

1:59:37

structures were in in a we don't

1:59:39

understand the technology we used. We

1:59:42

don't And it doesn't it literally

1:59:43

doesn't make sense that they were able

1:59:45

to do this. It's even like when we see

1:59:47

those big gigantic stones and they're

1:59:48

not just piled together. They're like

1:59:50

interlocked in weird shapes and all

1:59:52

that. It's like how do we how did that

1:59:53

happen? I mean that you know, those are

1:59:55

the things that yeah, I agree with you.

1:59:56

>> Yeah, archaeologists are very reluctant

1:59:58

to admit it but there's tremendous

2:00:00

evidence that not only were these people

2:00:02

far more advanced than we think people

2:00:05

should have been back then but they're

2:00:07

probably more advanced than we are now

2:00:09

with some

2:00:11

different kind of technology. And maybe

2:00:14

like again, it's like a it's like

2:00:16

advanced but in a different way. Right.

2:00:18

Right cuz otherwise

2:00:20

>> pathway. They didn't go

2:00:21

>> our way. Yeah, they didn't go internal

2:00:23

combustion engine and electronics

2:00:25

>> Cuz we would see something.

2:00:26

>> Exactly.

2:00:27

>> Right. But might not if you're thinking

2:00:29

about a 100,000 years ago. There might

2:00:31

not be anything left which is part of

2:00:32

the problem. But whatever this metallic

2:00:35

object is, if they are able to figure

2:00:38

out a way to divert some of the water

2:00:40

there

2:00:41

see all layers converge at a central

2:00:43

corridor or avenue, he said, like the

2:00:45

atrium of shopping mall where you can

2:00:47

see all floors from one vantage point. A

2:00:50

hall consisting of a massive space 40 m

2:00:53

wide and no less than 100 m long. My

2:00:55

personal interpretation, Tim said, is

2:00:57

that the entire hall was constructed to

2:00:59

house a centrally positioned

2:01:01

free-standing object about 40 m long.

2:01:05

Wow. So this hall, they believe was

2:01:06

constructed to house whatever this 40-m

2:01:10

long unknown metallic object is.

2:01:12

>> not dig that up? Well, they could but

2:01:14

it's going to cost an immense amount of

2:01:16

money. And the thing is about the

2:01:17

Egyptians the people that run it, I had

2:01:20

one of them on the podcast, Zahi Hawass,

2:01:23

and he's incredibly dogmatic about his

2:01:25

ideas of who built this and what. And

2:01:28

when you say, "How did they make these

2:01:30

structures? 2 million, 300,000 stones

2:01:32

that weigh between 2 and 80 tons. The

2:01:35

biggest stones cut from quarries that

2:01:37

were hundreds of miles away through the

2:01:38

mountain." And it's like, "This was a

2:01:40

national project." Yeah, man. The

2:01:41

Egyptians did everything because

2:01:43

[laughter] they were awesome. Yeah. I'm

2:01:45

sure they were awesome. I'm sure they

2:01:47

were awesome but it doesn't explain the

2:01:48

technology involved cuz there's extreme

2:01:50

technology. Just to be able to cut those

2:01:53

things. Like one of the things that they

2:01:55

don't understand is these vases.

2:01:57

These vases that they made that are

2:01:59

perfectly Yeah. perfectly designed where

2:02:03

there's the the difference between like

2:02:06

the edges and the symmetry is like a

2:02:08

thousandth of a human hair. And these

2:02:11

are cut out of incredibly hard granite.

2:02:13

They don't Really? I've never heard

2:02:15

Yeah. Yeah. You guys are familiar with

2:02:17

that.

2:02:17

>> This is a 3D print of one of them that

2:02:20

exists.

2:02:21

>> Yeah, and they're fascinated by the

2:02:22

perfection and they're saying how did

2:02:24

they do that? We don't even know how to

2:02:26

do that. incredibly hard stone.

2:02:28

>> Built with an incredible precision. Yes.

2:02:32

Incredibly

2:02:33

incredibly hard granite, incredible

2:02:35

precision back when they had no metal

2:02:37

alloys. They had copper tools. It

2:02:39

doesn't make any sense. None of it makes

2:02:41

any sense. Then there's the symmetry

2:02:44

involved in some of these statues. Like

2:02:47

they're perfectly symmetrical in terms

2:02:49

of the distance between the eyes, the

2:02:50

nose, the lips. Most No one's face is

2:02:53

symmetrical. Your your left side of your

2:02:54

face is different. If you combine the

2:02:56

two sides, they they look it looks

2:02:58

weird. But when you look at these

2:03:00

statues, these statues which are

2:03:02

massive, carved out of granite again,

2:03:05

supposedly before they had steel. Like

2:03:07

they didn't have diamond-tipped

2:03:09

instruments to do this. They polished

2:03:11

them. They're perfectly symmetrical and

2:03:13

massive. Some of them are a thousand

2:03:15

tons. And they don't have any

2:03:17

understanding of how these people built

2:03:18

these things or put them there. And they

2:03:20

all seem to be the biggest, most

2:03:22

spectacular ones are the oldest.

2:03:25

How could you not want to dig those up?

2:03:28

Yeah, well they And look and look at

2:03:30

them because I mean they're concerned

2:03:32

about national pride but if you dig them

2:03:34

up, I It's not just national pride. It's

2:03:37

the pride of the people that have been

2:03:38

espousing this one narrative for so

2:03:41

long. That's part of the problem. The

2:03:42

gatekeepers of the information.

2:03:44

>> It's still national pride.

2:03:46

>> It is but these people are idiots. That

2:03:48

that's part of the problem. Like they

2:03:50

their own ego is preventing them from

2:03:52

being open-minded and calling out to the

2:03:55

world's research communities and saying,

2:03:57

"Listen, there's something going on

2:03:59

here. We don't have the big picture. We

2:04:01

have a picture that we have formed from

2:04:04

a limited amount of information and

2:04:05

we've been incredibly arrogant about

2:04:07

what we're assuming. We also know that a

2:04:09

lot of these pharaohs would carve their

2:04:12

name and carve their hieroglyphs into

2:04:15

existing things. They would claim

2:04:17

existing things. Some of the carvings on

2:04:19

these things are far cruder in the way

2:04:22

they've done it than the actual

2:04:23

construction of the thing. And they

2:04:25

think that these are old things that

2:04:27

were there already and then these later

2:04:29

pharaohs Just wanted to attach his name.

2:04:32

>> chiseled their hieroglyphs into these

2:04:33

things.

2:04:35

And another thing and this has been

2:04:38

mentioned a lot is the fact that there's

2:04:40

no tools that were ever discovered in

2:04:43

those areas that would prove that those

2:04:46

thing that those things were made with

2:04:47

those and they have to use tools. They

2:04:48

have to have something. So there's not

2:04:50

even that. That's not even available. So

2:04:52

it's like how did they do it? Did they

2:04:54

hide the tools? Did they I mean why

2:04:57

would they do that? It doesn't None of

2:04:59

it makes any sense. And also these

2:05:01

incredibly hard vases that you find,

2:05:03

they're the oldest ones. They're the the

2:05:05

things that they find in the oldest

2:05:06

sites. It's like the most complicated,

2:05:08

complex, confusing technology seems to

2:05:11

be the oldest stuff.

2:05:12

There's also like You had another guy

2:05:14

here that that does a research on Peru

2:05:18

and he was talk I can't remember his

2:05:19

name. I got to meet him. Luke Caverns?

2:05:22

Was it him?

2:05:23

>> Yeah, he goes to Peru and he has a show

2:05:24

about that about the the ancient stuff

2:05:26

that they're finding underground in

2:05:28

Peru.

2:05:28

>> There's a couple guys. What was the

2:05:29

other guy?

2:05:30

He

2:05:31

He's got black hair. I can't remember

2:05:33

his name.

2:05:33

>> That's Luke. The younger guy?

2:05:34

>> Yeah, younger guy.

2:05:35

>> Luke. So basically he was talking about

2:05:38

the fact that there's two layers of

2:05:40

ancient stuff in Peru. The first layer

2:05:42

is younger and what's below it is what's

2:05:45

really incredible and more complex.

2:05:47

>> More complex but they don't want to go

2:05:49

there because you're going to destroy an

2:05:51

existing archaeological site that's on

2:05:54

top of it.

2:05:55

So what's happening is they're having

2:05:56

trouble now getting permission to go to

2:05:59

the lower level which is even better

2:06:01

because they're they're going to have to

2:06:02

break an archaeological site of a of a

2:06:06

more recent

2:06:07

part of that civilization.

2:06:09

>> is a common theme among people. We build

2:06:12

on older sites. There's a place that I

2:06:14

go to in Italy in the Amalfi Coast and

2:06:16

there's this incredible old

2:06:18

church there that's over a thousand

2:06:20

years old. But it's built on an even

2:06:22

older church and there's a plexiglass

2:06:25

floor that shows the old church.

2:06:27

>> Yes. That the old church is underneath

2:06:29

it and you can see the structure of this

2:06:30

old church. And I was asking them, "How

2:06:32

old is the old church?" They go, "We

2:06:33

don't know."

2:06:35

It's over a thousand years old. So it's

2:06:37

over a thousand years old this church

2:06:39

and then this really old church is on

2:06:41

top of it that's like hundreds and

2:06:43

hundreds of years old also. But they

2:06:45

built it on top of an existing

2:06:47

structure. So this is a common theme.

2:06:49

This is a theme in Peru where you see

2:06:51

the Inca construction which is like much

2:06:54

less complicated, smaller stones, you

2:06:57

know, mud mortar and it but it's on top

2:06:59

of these megalithic structures that are

2:07:01

carved in these jigsaw shapes where it

2:07:04

seems like they're they've been melted.

2:07:06

Yeah. It's freaky stuff. They have no

2:07:09

understanding of what technology was

2:07:10

used, who did it, how they did it, how

2:07:12

they moved these immense thousand-ton

2:07:15

stones and cut them with precision in

2:07:17

this jigsaw way so that it will absorb

2:07:19

the energy of earthquakes and not fall

2:07:22

down.

2:07:23

Yeah, that's crazy. I mean that's crazy.

2:07:25

>> There's a lot of that stuff that's

2:07:27

really, really freaky. And then you get

2:07:29

into old religious texts and that's when

2:07:32

things get really freaky. You get to

2:07:34

things like the Book of Enoch that talk

2:07:36

about the watchers who came down from

2:07:38

the sky and created humans. A lot of

2:07:40

unusual stuff happened a long time a

2:07:44

long time ago. And we don't have a good

2:07:46

record of it. We just have what we know

2:07:49

and what we know we get very arrogant

2:07:51

about. We know what happened 300 years

2:07:53

ago.

2:07:54

>> good point. Of what we know we get very

2:07:56

arrogant about.

2:07:57

>> it's also And anything else we don't.

2:07:59

>> These academics

2:08:01

and these people that are in charge of

2:08:03

the narrative like the people in Egypt

2:08:05

where they're very arrogant and they're

2:08:07

gatekeepers cuz their whole identity is

2:08:10

based on them being the ones that

2:08:12

explained to the world how these

2:08:14

incredible sites were produced. And if

2:08:15

something comes along that is counter to

2:08:17

that narrative

2:08:19

they fight it. They fight it because it

2:08:21

is their it's part of them. It's their

2:08:23

identity. Yeah, when I spoke to Filippo

2:08:25

Biondi, I talked to one of my cousins in

2:08:27

Italy. I spent a lot of my time in Italy

2:08:29

when I was younger. One of them, she was

2:08:31

younger than I was when I was there but

2:08:32

she's now become a respected archaeol

2:08:35

archaeologist in Rome and she's an

2:08:38

Egyptologist, okay? And I went out to

2:08:41

Italy to visit family and I was sitting

2:08:43

at the table. This is not even that long

2:08:45

ago. And she's sitting next to me and I

2:08:47

mean I remember her from from being a

2:08:49

kid. And she nudged me at the table.

2:08:52

There's her family's all academic.

2:08:54

Everybody's a doctor or scientist or

2:08:57

something like that. So, there's always

2:08:58

that pride of the science and she nudges

2:09:02

me and in Italian she says, "I'm really

2:09:04

interested in what what you do, what

2:09:06

you're looking into." And I knew what

2:09:08

she meant. It was about UFOs. And I just

2:09:12

responded, "I'm I'm even more interested

2:09:14

in what you know about what's out there

2:09:18

in Egypt."

2:09:19

And she looked at me

2:09:21

and she says, "We don't really know

2:09:24

all of it, some a lot of she said a lot

2:09:27

of it makes no sense."

2:09:29

But she said it whispering because she

2:09:32

knew that that's not well seen at the

2:09:34

table cuz now she's going to come across

2:09:37

as this pseudo-science type of like, "Oh

2:09:39

my god, she's going to come out of the

2:09:41

the the mainstream,

2:09:43

you know." So, and then she she came she

2:09:46

went to her place and I was still there.

2:09:49

We were there for a couple of days. She

2:09:51

came and gave me a little book

2:09:53

and

2:09:55

it in Italian, I don't know how to say

2:09:57

it. Il van the the the missing I don't

2:10:01

know how to say it in English, but

2:10:03

the missing evangelio, like the missing

2:10:05

scriptures, basically. It's a little

2:10:08

book in Italian about the missing

2:10:10

scriptures that are not in the Bible

2:10:12

that speak of things that are not

2:10:14

convenient

2:10:16

for what we

2:10:17

are arrogant to think we understand. And

2:10:20

one of the fascinating things about

2:10:21

these missing scriptures is they found

2:10:23

them alongside existing scriptures. So,

2:10:26

when they found the Dead Sea Scrolls in

2:10:27

Qumran, so they found these in a cave in

2:10:30

Qumran. And it was it's kind of a crazy

2:10:31

thing like someone threw a rock and hit

2:10:34

a clay pot and heard the shattering of a

2:10:36

clay pot. So, they threw a rock into

2:10:37

this high

2:10:39

cave and

2:10:41

realized there was something in there

2:10:43

and then they started looking and then

2:10:44

they found these scrolls that were in

2:10:45

these clay pots. Inside the scrolls they

2:10:47

found the Book of Isaiah.

2:10:49

It was a thousand years older than the

2:10:53

oldest version of the Book of Isaiah

2:10:54

that we had ever found and

2:10:57

it's identical verbatim to the Book of

2:11:01

Isaiah that is currently in the Bible.

2:11:03

Along with it is the Book of Enoch and

2:11:06

the Book of Enoch is squirrely.

2:11:08

>> Yeah. That Book of Enoch is squirrely.

2:11:11

That's a good way to describe it. Just a

2:11:13

few rabbis decided that the Book of

2:11:16

Enoch was too weird cuz it didn't jive

2:11:18

with the Torah, so they left it out of

2:11:20

the biblical canon. That's why it's not

2:11:22

taught.

2:11:24

But the Book of Enoch is readily

2:11:25

available. You can read it and it's also

2:11:26

in the Ethiopian Bible. The Ethiopian

2:11:29

Bible includes the Book of Enoch.

2:11:30

>> Really? Yes, and those are the people

2:11:31

that supposedly are in possession of the

2:11:34

Ark of the Covenant.

2:11:35

>> the Covenant, yeah. Which is like

2:11:37

Graham Hancock talks about it. There's

2:11:39

like a person is set to like they have a

2:11:41

job of watching the Ark of the Covenant,

2:11:43

but it's known that it's going to kill

2:11:45

them, so they all get cataracts and

2:11:47

cancer and they all want to die.

2:11:48

>> things, yeah, that's right.

2:11:49

>> Well, it has some sort of radiation

2:11:50

apparently and they they exhibit signs

2:11:52

of radiation poisoning when these people

2:11:54

are designed to be the curators.

2:11:56

>> Where is the Ark of the Covenant

2:11:57

supposed to be?

2:11:58

>> supposedly in Ethiopia. So, you guys

2:12:00

think that's

2:12:02

I mean, I'm very

2:12:03

>> it's ancient technology. I think it's

2:12:05

probably ancient technology. It's

2:12:06

probably some completely

2:12:09

not understood ancient technology. I'm

2:12:12

I'm not discounting it. I'm just I'm

2:12:14

just wondering.

2:12:15

>> Well, I like the fact that you're

2:12:15

skeptical even though you have the

2:12:17

craziest story of all time.

2:12:18

>> [laughter]

2:12:19

>> But it's

2:12:20

it's speaks to your integrity. It really

2:12:22

does because you're not a guy who

2:12:23

believes cookie So, for you, a guy

2:12:26

who doesn't believe cookie is a

2:12:27

hard rational scientist who is an

2:12:29

engineer who's done things like put a

2:12:31

rocket engine in the back of a

2:12:33

Honda and then or a hydrogen powered

2:12:36

Corvette and then you go and see these

2:12:38

things you're like, "Wait, what what the

2:12:40

is this thing you have in this

2:12:42

hangar?"

2:12:43

>> technology.

2:12:44

>> Right.

2:12:45

Nothing else. Right. So, I mean, to hear

2:12:47

something like that, it's Do you think

2:12:49

that that

2:12:51

that actually exists?

2:12:53

I don't know. Um Graham Hancock is

2:12:55

convinced it exists. It's very carefully

2:12:57

guarded and these people have been

2:12:58

guarding it for centuries.

2:12:59

>> it's just it's throughout history,

2:13:01

right? So, I mean, there's too many

2:13:03

missing pieces of the puzzle to really

2:13:05

say one way or another. I don't think

2:13:07

there's a right

2:13:08

>> mythology or an actual

2:13:11

>> Right. But it is weird that he's talked

2:13:13

to these people. They have these

2:13:15

cataracts and these people all say the

2:13:16

same thing. They die. The people that

2:13:18

are designed or that are designated to

2:13:20

be the curators of this

2:13:22

particular religious

2:13:24

>> I relate this back to the I think I told

2:13:26

you the first time we met, you know, if

2:13:28

somebody found a nuclear reactor Right.

2:13:31

back at that time, you know, and they

2:13:33

took it apart they just would drop dead.

2:13:36

Right.

2:13:37

>> the radiation. Yeah, magically from

2:13:39

that. And anybody that came in to check

2:13:41

on them would also die and they go,

2:13:43

"This is evil

2:13:44

evil. It's cursed or whatever."

2:13:46

>> Or and something that you're not

2:13:48

supposed to have access to because it's

2:13:51

divine.

2:13:52

>> Yeah, right. Could this be something at

2:13:55

another level? Yes. That I have to say

2:13:59

and I I mean, I'm no one to say it, but

2:14:01

I struggle with divine stuff because I'm

2:14:03

like it this this craft or this

2:14:06

technology I mean, our phones to

2:14:09

somebody a thousand years ago would look

2:14:12

like some divine object. I mean, it it's

2:14:14

technology to us. So, we have to be very

2:14:17

cautious in like I I'm not saying there

2:14:19

is no divine something. Maybe there is,

2:14:21

we don't know, but I think technology

2:14:24

really could mask itself as divine power

2:14:27

or

2:14:28

or

2:14:29

divine energy itself could be technology

2:14:33

taken to its final form.

2:14:36

That's that I'm open to. Well, if you

2:14:38

think about what we're talking about

2:14:40

with sentient AI, an AI that has the

2:14:42

ability to make better versions of

2:14:44

itself, what happens if it's left alone

2:14:47

Yeah. for a thousand years to do this?

2:14:49

Well, what do you have? You have

2:14:51

something that can harness the power of

2:14:52

the universe itself.

2:14:54

It has access

2:14:55

zero point energy, can do whatever I

2:14:57

mean, has a complete understanding of

2:14:59

quantum quantum entanglement, complete

2:15:01

understanding of how the universe

2:15:03

functions, how it was created. I mean,

2:15:05

there's new theories that believe that

2:15:07

the entire universe itself exists inside

2:15:09

of a black hole. They're trying to

2:15:10

figure out whether or not there were

2:15:12

ever was a big bang or if it's a

2:15:13

continuous cycle of things existing

2:15:16

inside black holes. So, where where

2:15:18

where do you think we are? What do you

2:15:20

think this is? I think it's a process. I

2:15:22

think we're we're at a stage of a

2:15:24

process. Our problem is we have

2:15:27

ideology, we have

2:15:29

we have dogma, we have ego, we have

2:15:32

people that are smarter than most

2:15:34

people, but want to think that they have

2:15:36

all the information and I don't think

2:15:37

they do. And then we have open-minded

2:15:39

people that are curious, but don't want

2:15:40

to look like kooks and they're all

2:15:42

trying to figure it out while we're

2:15:43

making a digital god while these

2:15:46

weirdo on the spectrum eggheads

2:15:48

>> are literally manufacturing our own god.

2:15:50

>> Right. Right.

2:15:51

>> [laughter]

2:15:51

>> We are. We are. If that and you you

2:15:54

extrapolate, you go from where it is

2:15:56

now, you think about the exponential

2:15:58

increase of technology. Well, where does

2:16:00

that go? It kind of goes divine. I mean,

2:16:03

that might be what God is. We want to

2:16:05

think that God is a thing that exists.

2:16:08

It just exists, it created everything.

2:16:10

Maybe we make God.

2:16:13

>> yeah. Yeah. All right, we're on the same

2:16:15

channel, yeah. I I think we created we I

2:16:18

think we created God. I think human

2:16:20

curiosity and the this thirst for

2:16:23

innovation is all a part of it.

2:16:26

I'll say something about the technology

2:16:28

cuz it always fascinates me. I mean, I

2:16:30

spent four years with Bob and I had to

2:16:32

build it in a virtual environment, so I

2:16:34

kind of had to think about it while I'm

2:16:36

doing it, but if you really think about

2:16:38

what this technology that you saw does

2:16:42

it essentially creates this artificial

2:16:44

field of whether it's artificial maybe

2:16:46

it's natural. Maybe it's a natural

2:16:47

field, but it creates a field that we're

2:16:49

not familiar with and that field I mean,

2:16:52

Joe, you saw the movie there was a test

2:16:54

that was done in the lab that froze a

2:16:57

candle flame. Right, right.

2:16:59

But the but the photons are still

2:17:01

visible within our realm here outside of

2:17:05

the field and you're still seeing the

2:17:07

photons, yet it looks like it's frozen.

2:17:10

To me is the is this is that technology

2:17:16

like a black hole? Is it some type of

2:17:18

time stop?

2:17:20

And they and it it basically gives us

2:17:23

the power to utilize time in our

2:17:27

advantage. If you think about

2:17:30

progression in technology, anything we

2:17:32

do, it takes time. Anything takes time.

2:17:35

Whether it's computing power where now

2:17:37

we're seeing quantum computers do things

2:17:39

that they're faster and faster and they

2:17:41

could do a trillion processes in an

2:17:43

instant and Japan is going coming up

2:17:45

with better and then China.

2:17:47

But because everything has to do with

2:17:49

how long does it take to do that? Right.

2:17:52

If a technology can make you bypass time

2:17:56

it's like the record player playing

2:17:58

music, but you're you're now able to

2:18:01

lift it lift the little pin on the

2:18:03

record and move it to wherever you want.

2:18:06

>> Yes. That's a good way to describe it.

2:18:07

>> Right? And now at that point time is in

2:18:10

your hands.

2:18:12

And if we have a technology similar to

2:18:14

what you saw because you always said

2:18:17

gravity is a control gravity and time.

2:18:20

>> yeah. It it's interlocked, right?

2:18:22

>> and time are interlocked.

2:18:24

>> Exactly. So, if that's interlocked, then

2:18:27

we have to look at it not just as a

2:18:30

propulsion system or some type of cool

2:18:32

weapon

2:18:33

but how is it affecting time and how can

2:18:36

we use that to our benefit to evolve

2:18:39

sorry, to evolve faster?

2:18:41

Because again the faster we can compute,

2:18:45

the faster we could do something, the

2:18:47

faster we're evolving. And if we could

2:18:50

lift that needle and bring it faster to

2:18:53

get there to get somewhere, why not use

2:18:55

it? Or should I mean should we be

2:18:57

allowed to do that? Austin our current

2:19:00

form.

2:19:00

>> Yeah, I know. I

2:19:02

>> [laughter]

2:19:03

>> Like I said, I'm I'm not exactly on our

2:19:06

side anymore.

2:19:08

Well, that was one of the

2:19:09

Do you remember Jamie who discussed the

2:19:11

way they were describing the use of some

2:19:14

of this alien technology as

2:19:16

instantaneous

2:19:18

weapon deployment systems? I I'm not

2:19:21

sure we should be trusted with this

2:19:22

stuff.

2:19:23

>> Right. No, really. Well, you think about

2:19:26

what we're doing in Iran right now, you

2:19:28

would say no. Yeah. Yeah, I would I

2:19:30

would say no for sure.

2:19:32

>> over patches of dirt and bombing the

2:19:34

out of

2:19:35

>> No, imagine if we had something a a a

2:19:37

million times that power. Um

2:19:41

Really, humans should not

2:19:44

be trusted with that.

2:19:46

>> Right, we got to trust it to AI. That's

2:19:48

why we're making it, Bob.

2:19:50

This is [laughter] This is getting

2:19:52

scary. Yeah, it is getting scary. It is.

2:19:54

But it's it's not science fiction

2:19:56

anymore.

2:19:56

>> no no it's not I mean we're making fun

2:19:59

of it now, but no this is this is

2:20:01

dangerous stuff and I'm

2:20:03

you know, I'm sorry for the people who

2:20:05

think this is all a joke. It's not. This

2:20:07

is real. And um

2:20:10

I'm really not sure we should be trusted

2:20:12

with this. That's maybe why for 40 years

2:20:14

or 60 years people have agreed to keep

2:20:17

it quiet.

2:20:17

>> I would agree.

2:20:18

>> And and um

2:20:20

Well, that's the most logical

2:20:21

conclusion.

2:20:22

>> Yeah, this is incredibly dangerous

2:20:23

stuff. And again, it's a world

2:20:26

dominating technology. And I I don't

2:20:30

know what to do with it other than to

2:20:31

keep it from people.

2:20:34

So,

2:20:35

and how do we know if it comes out

2:20:37

something I always struggle with is

2:20:40

let's say they they let's say we do get

2:20:42

an a

2:20:43

some some type of thing saying, all

2:20:45

right, we we have to see it from

2:20:47

somebody in the government, the

2:20:48

president, whoever that says, okay, here

2:20:51

we are, we have this. Well, first of

2:20:53

all, we have to validate it. The

2:20:55

journalists are going to The whole world

2:20:57

Nobody's going to say The media is not

2:20:58

going to just trust somebody saying

2:20:59

that. They're going to go, okay, wait a

2:21:01

minute. What are you talking about,

2:21:02

right? So, it's not like because

2:21:03

somebody says it, we just have to

2:21:05

swallow it. It's like, all right,

2:21:07

go. Show us, right? And then when you do

2:21:10

that, well, now you're exposing

2:21:12

something else. What do we What What

2:21:15

happens when we need to believe it? Like

2:21:18

as as a as a as people, what do what has

2:21:22

to happen for me to believe something

2:21:24

that somebody says?

2:21:26

There really has to be something serious

2:21:28

that makes me believe it. Right.

2:21:30

>> You know what I mean? Like some if a

2:21:31

president or anybody, prime minister,

2:21:33

whoever it is says something to me, I'll

2:21:35

still go like, okay. I mean, show me.

2:21:38

Right.

2:21:38

>> they when they show it, how do I know

2:21:41

that's actually that?

2:21:44

Think about that. Yeah. Right? And then

2:21:46

from there, we now have to go to another

2:21:49

level of okay, well, if we have to prove

2:21:52

it, we have to bring in scientific

2:21:54

community.

2:21:55

Okay. That means they have access to it.

2:21:58

What's the security parameters there?

2:22:00

Right. And then you get

2:22:01

compartmentalization.

2:22:03

Right. And then that stops any sort of

2:22:05

an understanding of And that's why you

2:22:07

have this stigma this stick this

2:22:10

stagnation of where you've got these

2:22:12

people working on this thing for decades

2:22:14

and not making any progress. Do you know

2:22:16

how far we could have gotten if there

2:22:18

was free discussion between all the

2:22:20

groups working on this? Right. Yeah. But

2:22:23

then you also have these psychos

2:22:24

like from Dr. Strangelove that want to

2:22:26

turn it into a nuclear delivery system.

2:22:28

Yeah.

2:22:30

So, where you don't have to worry about

2:22:31

them detecting nuclear bombs headed

2:22:33

their way, you just instantaneously

2:22:36

devastate Moscow in one shot.

2:22:40

You don't have to take credit for it.

2:22:42

Yeah, but we'd

2:22:43

Right. [laughter]

2:22:44

No, it's like we are not ready. Right.

2:22:47

Yeah, and I know we're not ready, but

2:22:49

we'd be more advanced if we did that.

2:22:51

No, I I mean I I agree that I agree with

2:22:53

that. But um

2:22:56

It's all very strange and no one knows

2:22:58

more strange than you.

2:23:00

Uh like No, there are plenty of people

2:23:02

that know more strange than me. I mean,

2:23:04

Dennis knew more strange than me.

2:23:06

Anybody above him knew that. I just knew

2:23:09

a small part of it.

2:23:10

>> But you out of all the people that can

2:23:12

talk about it that are out there

2:23:14

communicating about it, you have

2:23:16

actually seen it physically.

2:23:18

>> Yeah, I I I try to only talk about what

2:23:21

I I've seen and touched and verified.

2:23:23

I've heard plenty of other stuff that I

2:23:25

don't know if it's true or not. And

2:23:27

there's no sense in repeating that.

2:23:29

Because nonsense moves at the speed of

2:23:31

light these days.

2:23:32

>> Right. Yeah. It does. And that's that's

2:23:35

just it's terrible. You live in a weird

2:23:37

existence, Bob. You really do. Because

2:23:40

you're you know, you've been holding on

2:23:42

to this. You have this experience from

2:23:45

40 years ago that's just

2:23:48

become a part of

2:23:50

folklore. It's become a part of the

2:23:52

zeitgeist. Like this is why your podcast

2:23:55

that we did is the most watched podcast

2:23:57

I've ever done. This resonates with

2:23:59

people in a way that Look, I've done a

2:24:01

lot of UFO ones. I had Travis Walton on.

2:24:04

I've had a lot of people that have

2:24:05

stories. They're all very interesting.

2:24:07

They don't get nearly the amount of

2:24:08

traction that yours does. And I think

2:24:10

it's because you're uniquely credible.

2:24:13

You're uniquely credible in the fact

2:24:14

that you are very skeptical. You're not

2:24:16

interested in like these fantastic

2:24:18

ideas. You're you're very dismissive of

2:24:20

nonsense. But yet you have this burden.

2:24:24

Like you actually

2:24:26

physically touched these things

2:24:29

and went inside of them.

2:24:30

>> I mean, I was fortunate enough to have

2:24:32

this really unique job. That that's

2:24:34

about it. And I am fascinated with the

2:24:36

technology.

2:24:37

But that's where it stops.

2:24:39

I'm not interested interested in anybody

2:24:41

else's story, although everybody has to

2:24:44

email me and you know, I I understand

2:24:47

it, you know, they're looking for

2:24:49

somebody Hey, I saw this thing out when

2:24:51

I was out on my boat and then you know,

2:24:52

what is it?

2:24:53

I don't know. You know, I mean, they're

2:24:55

[laughter] they're they're they're

2:24:57

they're just looking for something and

2:24:59

that's like I don't know, maybe it was

2:25:01

Venus or something and

2:25:02

Oh my god, you suck, you know, you work

2:25:04

for the government, you [laughter] know,

2:25:05

and it's like Dude, I'm just looking for

2:25:08

a prosaic explanation and and um

2:25:12

you know, but I only know what I saw and

2:25:14

I touched for myself. And everything

2:25:17

else, even in official government

2:25:19

documentation, it's just words on paper.

2:25:22

I don't know if that stuff is true. So,

2:25:23

you got to draw the line there. Yes. But

2:25:26

um you know, I know what I what I did

2:25:29

see, I know for a fact. And there is no

2:25:34

way you can tell me that that's not

2:25:37

real.

2:25:39

Yeah. I I mean, I I have to say in

2:25:43

having worked with him and having you

2:25:46

know, inadvertently, there's no way that

2:25:48

myself or people on my team weren't

2:25:50

trying to dig deeper and find Maybe

2:25:52

there's a prob- Maybe there's going to

2:25:53

be a gap. Maybe we'll find something

2:25:55

wrong with the story. Cuz we we went we

2:25:58

went very deep. We had to build S4. We

2:26:00

had to build the sport model.

2:26:02

And

2:26:04

there were things that happened over the

2:26:07

years, things that he had said to us

2:26:09

before we had built it that there's no

2:26:11

way he could have known because there

2:26:14

was physicality, real things that we

2:26:17

built. When you build something in a 3D

2:26:19

environment, you're actually building a

2:26:21

real world. It's got light bounce and

2:26:24

refractions like the real world. Like

2:26:25

when you turn on the light, it does the

2:26:27

same thing. If a material has a sheen,

2:26:30

you see it. It's literally the same

2:26:32

thing. It's just computing power that

2:26:33

gives you access to another world. And

2:26:36

he mentioned things that were absolutely

2:26:39

impossible to know.

2:26:41

Like what? One of the things that got

2:26:44

two things really

2:26:46

convinced me.

2:26:47

One of them was in the interior of the

2:26:50

craft. You had said to us it was very

2:26:53

dark in there.

2:26:55

And while Bob is explaining to us the

2:26:58

this interior of the craft and many time

2:27:00

he kept repeating it was really dark in

2:27:02

there.

2:27:03

And so, at a certain point he says, as

2:27:05

I'm crawling in, there's like these

2:27:07

extension cords. And I remember going,

2:27:09

extension cords? Like I it that hadn't

2:27:12

computed. And he's like, yeah, they had

2:27:14

lights in there. And I'm thinking, it's

2:27:16

true. I mean, there's no light switch

2:27:19

inside this big thing. It's 50 52 ft.

2:27:22

It's big. And so, he said, yeah, there

2:27:24

were two big industrial yellow

2:27:28

industrial lights with four spots each

2:27:30

pointed up. And so, we decided to make

2:27:32

those. We decided to research the type

2:27:35

that were used back then in the United

2:27:37

States, especially on military bases,

2:27:38

the halogen power cuz it was halogen in

2:27:40

1988. And we turned them on. And it was

2:27:44

still dark.

2:27:45

>> And it was super dark. And I remember

2:27:48

Christopher Mattel, by the way, a big

2:27:50

shout out to Christopher Mattel that's

2:27:51

on my team who made a lot of those

2:27:53

visuals and he's like a magician. He's

2:27:55

He's the best.

2:27:56

He He's there and I I said, Chris, turn

2:27:59

on the lights cuz we have to film in the

2:28:01

craft. And he's like, they're they're

2:28:02

on.

2:28:03

I said, they're not on. I can't

2:28:05

see anything. He's like, they're fully

2:28:07

on.

2:28:08

And I said, well, that that doesn't make

2:28:10

any sense. It's so dark in there. I

2:28:11

remember thinking,

2:28:13

>> light in there.

2:28:15

>> we upped the power of the light so that

2:28:18

you could see more. And it was still

2:28:20

dark. And I thought, what the hell is

2:28:23

happening? I goes, is there a bug? Is it

2:28:25

Is there something wrong? He goes, no, I

2:28:27

don't know. It's It's It's absorbing the

2:28:29

light in there.

2:28:30

We had to up the light intensity on

2:28:33

those tripods by 20-fold

2:28:36

in order for you to see the visuals you

2:28:38

see in our film.

2:28:40

Otherwise, it would be really dark in

2:28:42

that craft.

2:28:43

>> So, how did you compute that? Like what

2:28:45

what what parameters did you establish?

2:28:48

So, what you do is you're you're inside

2:28:51

a 3D environment. You're an actual a

2:28:53

three you're in a 3D world. Now, we're

2:28:55

inside the craft that is 52 ft in

2:28:58

diameter. It's we bring a camera in

2:29:01

there. So, we were filming the whole

2:29:03

film was was done with the Blackmagic 6K

2:29:06

cams. So, we would bring our Blackmagics

2:29:09

in the 3D environment. You can actually

2:29:10

set that so that we could film inside

2:29:14

the craft so matches the filming of of

2:29:16

our real cameras.

2:29:17

And so, the as soon as the camera's on,

2:29:20

it's the same lens, it's the same

2:29:22

aperture, everything is as you would

2:29:24

have it. And so, you're trying to adjust

2:29:26

for this dark room.

2:29:28

But if the room is really dark, you

2:29:31

can't really get a good look at it cuz

2:29:33

if you go close enough, you would have

2:29:35

seen like a seat and a little bit of the

2:29:37

reactor, but you would have been like,

2:29:39

"What's the black screen I'm looking

2:29:40

at?"

2:29:40

>> So, what is the explanation for why it's

2:29:42

so dark? It's just the way the light

2:29:44

reflects on the And that is exactly

2:29:46

Yeah, it's when you're in that space,

2:29:48

exactly

2:29:49

>> here's the question. Like, what what are

2:29:50

you when you're making this in a

2:29:52

computer model? Right? What are you

2:29:55

putting in that would make it absorb

2:29:58

light that way?

2:29:59

>> I didn't do that. So, what we did is

2:30:01

we spent over a year with Bob. I I'm not

2:30:05

I'm not kidding. It was like a year of

2:30:07

trying to figure out the material of the

2:30:10

craft, the the actual skin of the craft.

2:30:13

That was the hardest thing to do in

2:30:15

>> clarity and the reflectivity of the

2:30:16

actual material.

2:30:19

Yeah. And then when the lights are in

2:30:20

there, they just reflect at a weird

2:30:23

angle, and it never gets bright in there

2:30:26

unless you have

2:30:27

tremendous amounts of light in there.

2:30:29

It's always dark.

2:30:30

>> And and sorry to interrupt, but that

2:30:33

would have been So, when when that

2:30:35

happened and we have the right material,

2:30:37

which is like this let's call it

2:30:39

unpolished stainless steel. It's got a

2:30:41

little bit of usage to it just to give

2:30:43

it some texture.

2:30:45

It's It's as It's got the same sheen,

2:30:47

reflection, refractions of a real

2:30:49

material like that cuz every time we put

2:30:51

a fake light in there, okay, it's

2:30:52

reacting like that.

2:30:54

And now you turn these big halogen

2:30:56

lights on and it's like the part of

2:30:59

where the halogen is hitting the ceiling

2:31:01

of the craft cuz they were turned

2:31:02

upwards. Remember you Bob said they were

2:31:05

not pointed like this. They were pointed

2:31:07

to the ceiling of the craft. So, you got

2:31:08

two of them.

2:31:10

It's like wherever the light was going

2:31:12

was getting eaten up by that portion of

2:31:15

the material. So, it's not reflecting

2:31:18

all the way. So, you have a 52-ft

2:31:21

distance and it's being lost in a maybe

2:31:24

7-8 ft diameter environment area where

2:31:28

the light is. And we're like, "Why is

2:31:30

that happening?" But that's how it What

2:31:34

that's the reality. He could not have

2:31:36

known that if he if he's trying to make

2:31:40

that up.

2:31:42

Anybody who's inventing a story says

2:31:45

there's two industrial light

2:31:47

with four hal- bright halogen spots in

2:31:50

there.

2:31:51

A liar would not say it was really dark

2:31:54

in there.

2:31:55

You don't know that. You have to build

2:31:58

it. Right. So, to me that was a

2:32:00

physicality of being inside the craft

2:32:03

that made me go, "Lazar could not have

2:32:06

known that if he was making that up."

2:32:09

>> know it until you experienced it.

2:32:10

>> Exactly. Right. So, I'm like, "Unless

2:32:12

Bob back then decided to go and in his

2:32:16

garage build himself a fake dome, which

2:32:20

I don't think you did." I'm like, "How

2:32:22

would he have known that?" We didn't

2:32:24

expect that. We were we were struggling

2:32:26

with, "Why is it so dark in there?"

2:32:28

>> And you make films, so you're used to

2:32:30

using lighting and

2:32:30

>> Exactly. And and Chris was like, "Dude,

2:32:33

this thing is just eating up the light."

2:32:35

And I'm like, "Bob kept saying it's so

2:32:38

dark in there." And it just How How do

2:32:42

you How do you How is that possible?

2:32:44

>> the other things? The other one

2:32:47

I laugh about this with Bob all the

2:32:48

time. It's about the flag

2:32:50

on the craft that you could have seen

2:32:52

it.

2:32:52

>> remember.

2:32:53

>> So, when he walked into the hangar the

2:32:55

very first time,

2:32:57

he saw the very first time

2:33:00

>> flag.

2:33:01

>> he saw the craft and he saw the American

2:33:03

the reversed American flag sticker on

2:33:05

the craft.

2:33:06

>> why it was reversed. I I'll get to that

2:33:08

in a sec. I think I know, but

2:33:11

whatever. I'll I'll I'll say what I

2:33:12

think. And

2:33:14

there's a lot of stuff I researched a

2:33:16

lot of stuff on Bob Lazar before I did

2:33:18

this, and there's a lot of bad

2:33:19

information out there.

2:33:21

So, I I really I I really tell people if

2:33:23

you really want to see what he saw,

2:33:25

don't go read what's out there. Check

2:33:27

this out cuz Bob actually vetted

2:33:28

everything, so it's not the wrong

2:33:30

information read. But anyway, there's a

2:33:32

lot of detractors saying there's no way

2:33:35

Lazar could have seen that flag. If the

2:33:37

craft was that size and it was on the

2:33:39

hall on the on the craft shell, there's

2:33:41

no way the angle he's 5 something, he

2:33:43

wouldn't have been able to see it. So,

2:33:45

we built it. We built a 52-ft diameter

2:33:48

craft. We put it in the hangar. It's

2:33:51

there. And my my team, Chris, gives me

2:33:54

the goggles, the ones I made you try on.

2:33:56

And it's the very first time I go in

2:33:58

there. And I know the craft is there.

2:34:01

So, I put them on. And now they're

2:34:03

they're hoping cuz they're there with

2:34:05

with notes. They're hoping I'm giving

2:34:07

them all the notes of, "No, that's not

2:34:08

good. That's not good." And the first

2:34:10

thing I did is I looked to my right. I'm

2:34:12

looking at the craft.

2:34:14

And I'm I asked uh Chris to put me at 5

2:34:17

ft 10, which is your height. So, I said,

2:34:20

"At 5 10, I'm Bob's height with the

2:34:22

goggles. I want to see."

2:34:23

And the first thing I said is, "Oh, it's

2:34:25

There it is."

2:34:27

And they're like,

2:34:28

"There what is?" I said, "The flag." And

2:34:31

they thought I was pointing at a flag on

2:34:33

a wall. And they're like, "There's no

2:34:35

flag in the hangar." I said, "No, on the

2:34:37

craft." And they're like, "Yeah?"

2:34:39

I said, "You can clearly see it."

2:34:42

It was clear. That was something that

2:34:45

also made me go, "Yeah, this is this is

2:34:48

it. This is the real size." So,

2:34:51

had Bob Lazar not actually seen that,

2:34:54

the majority of the the detractors out

2:34:57

there kept saying there's no way at that

2:34:59

angle a human eye could see a sticker on

2:35:02

the top of the craft, which is on the

2:35:05

top shelf.

2:35:05

>> Mhm.

2:35:06

But you can. It's as clear as day. So,

2:35:09

those were two things that I considered

2:35:11

to be like, you know,

2:35:15

it's there. So, I know to may- maybe

2:35:18

some people that's not a lot, but as a

2:35:21

person like I am who's very technical,

2:35:23

I'm very

2:35:24

I'm super difficult. It took a long time

2:35:27

to do this cuz I'm a perfectionist, and

2:35:29

I wanted to make sure it was accurate to

2:35:31

what he saw.

2:35:33

I look at stuff like that because I

2:35:36

analyze everything like that.

2:35:39

And I I analyzed his story inside out.

2:35:42

>> you couldn't see the flag from that

2:35:43

position, it would it would be a red

2:35:44

flag. Yeah, that would have been a red

2:35:47

flag for me. I would have been like,

2:35:48

"Wait, you can't see it." But you can.

2:35:50

So, you can't you can't put

2:35:53

enough of a value on little details like

2:35:56

that

2:35:57

because he didn't say this in 2026. He

2:35:59

said this in 1989. Right.

2:36:03

Why?

2:36:04

>> Why do you think the flag was reversed?

2:36:07

In American uh flag use law, the the the

2:36:11

the only thing we were able to

2:36:14

ascertain is the fact that on military

2:36:17

or on vehicles, anything military on a

2:36:19

on a uniform, if ever you see an

2:36:21

American flag on your right shoulder,

2:36:24

it's reversed because it's how the wind

2:36:26

is blowing the flag. On your left side,

2:36:29

it's like the flag is because the wind

2:36:31

is blowing this way. If you look at

2:36:33

[clears throat] vehicles, uh let's say a

2:36:35

Greyhound bus, they have American flags

2:36:37

on each side, and they have a normal one

2:36:40

on the left one on the left side and a

2:36:42

reversed on the right side because it's

2:36:44

the right side of the vehicle. So, it's

2:36:46

a blowing it's blowing in the flag

2:36:48

>> the flag that way. So, the reversed

2:36:51

American flag is a is a is a actual

2:36:55

uh

2:36:56

it's the law of how to use the flag in

2:36:58

the United States military or on

2:37:00

vehicles. And it has to be like that on

2:37:03

the right side. So, to to say, "Is that

2:37:07

the right side of the craft?" Yeah, it

2:37:09

must be.

2:37:10

>> be because if you go into the craft, the

2:37:13

seats when you're when you go into the

2:37:15

craft I I can't wait for you to go in

2:37:17

the craft.

2:37:18

When you go inside, the seats are facing

2:37:21

the right side, meaning

2:37:23

the hatch is the right side of the

2:37:26

craft. It's the only thing that came to

2:37:29

mind. I mean, is that what the they did

2:37:32

at S4? They put a sticker on it?

2:37:35

I mean, it's the only logical thing we

2:37:37

could think of is that's why it was

2:37:40

there. Mhm. I don't know. I'm

2:37:43

you know, my other my other because if

2:37:45

it was an American fla- if it was just

2:37:48

for identifying this is America,

2:37:51

why would you reverse it? Right. Right?

2:37:55

You're reversing it because it's

2:37:57

indicating the direction which it

2:37:58

travels. Exactly. Wow.

2:38:01

That's just an interesting

2:38:03

>> Yeah. Right?

2:38:04

It's all interesting. The The goggles is

2:38:06

a trip. When I put on the 3D AR goggles

2:38:11

and you you VR goggles rather and you

2:38:13

you stand in that

2:38:15

warehouse, that hangar, and look at it,

2:38:18

it's very strange. It feels weird.

2:38:20

>> like it was. It feels very weird. It

2:38:23

feels very weird cuz I I mean, I'm only

2:38:25

imagining what it's like to actually be

2:38:27

you in 1988 and be standing there. When

2:38:30

you put the goggles on, that's exactly

2:38:31

how it was. What did What did Dennis say

2:38:34

when you first saw it? Was like, "Huh?

2:38:36

Huh?"

2:38:37

Like, [laughter] "Come on."

2:38:38

Dennis Dennis was hardcore. Yeah.

2:38:40

>> He was Yeah, he was here. Look at that.

2:38:43

You know, come back in here. I mean it

2:38:46

There was no reaction. Barry on the

2:38:48

other hand was out of his mind. He he

2:38:50

couldn't wait to show me stuff and you

2:38:52

know, he said, "Check this out. Oh my

2:38:54

god, that was that awesome." You know,

2:38:56

but Dennis was uh

2:38:58

It was like a hardcore

2:39:00

you know, military guy.

2:39:03

How much of a view did you get of the

2:39:05

other crafts? Cuz it's one of the things

2:39:07

in the film, you only see like hints of

2:39:10

them. That was it. That's it. That's it.

2:39:12

What you saw on the film was exactly

2:39:13

what it was. It was just a passing thing

2:39:15

and as I was walking out there going,

2:39:18

"Wow, there's more. Everything looks

2:39:21

different." And

2:39:24

other than the the first two hangars, I

2:39:26

really couldn't tell what was past out

2:39:28

there, but there were other hangars and

2:39:30

there were things inside them. But It's

2:39:33

also interesting that at the time in

2:39:35

1988, this site was not even confirmed.

2:39:38

This was like for you to have to know

2:39:40

about this and know the exact location

2:39:42

of it is kind of strange. Right. Now,

2:39:45

Luigi did that. I mean, I gave him the

2:39:47

general idea. I said

2:39:49

you know, I know

2:39:51

what time I got out there and I could

2:39:53

see Papoose Lake and behind me

2:39:56

the hill.

2:39:56

>> He pulled he pulled up a lot of stuff

2:39:57

from there. But another interesting

2:39:59

thing he pulled up was

2:40:02

there was an old silver mine exactly

2:40:04

there.

2:40:06

In the exact same place and I wonder if

2:40:08

they used that as the it was already

2:40:11

drilled. There was already, you know,

2:40:13

corridors in there.

2:40:15

>> I actually held this

2:40:17

for this show. What I'm about to say is

2:40:19

the first time ever. It's not even It

2:40:21

didn't make it in my film. I wish it

2:40:23

did, but it didn't make it in the film.

2:40:25

Veronica at on our team, she's my

2:40:28

sister. She's like my right hand and I

2:40:30

didn't If I didn't have her, I wouldn't

2:40:31

be here right now.

2:40:33

She found this

2:40:35

and at a certain point we were looking

2:40:37

at the maps out there and we we You'll

2:40:40

see in my film that Gene Huff sent us

2:40:42

some US Department of the Interior

2:40:44

official maps of that environment at the

2:40:47

Groom Groom Lake Papoose Lake.

2:40:49

But we weren't satisfied. We wanted to

2:40:51

go deeper. We said there's got to be

2:40:52

more and there's one map

2:40:55

in

2:40:56

that is a publicly available map. It's

2:41:00

super not easy to find, by the way,

2:41:02

that is in the hands of the US

2:41:04

Department of the Interior.

2:41:07

I could get it to you if you want. I can

2:41:09

email it to you.

2:41:10

That map is the oldest map of Papoose

2:41:13

Lake known in the hands of the

2:41:15

government that is that is public

2:41:17

domain.

2:41:18

That map and everybody's going to be

2:41:21

listening to this

2:41:22

clearly shows a road that goes right

2:41:27

into where S4 was.

2:41:30

is.

2:41:31

It doesn't show a road near it. It shows

2:41:34

a road going right in the mountain.

2:41:38

And they removed it. That map is from

2:41:41

1941.

2:41:44

Okay? Right after that, the map is 1950

2:41:48

and 1952 and those roads were removed.

2:41:52

But the the late the oldest map we ever

2:41:54

found, it's going to be available.

2:41:56

We're going to post it on our website.

2:41:58

It's going to be everywhere.

2:42:00

It shows

2:42:01

clear as day a road that goes right into

2:42:05

the mountain exactly where Bob Lazar

2:42:07

said S4 was. So, do you think that was

2:42:10

the road to the silver mine initially?

2:42:12

>> Yes, I believe that yeah. I believe It

2:42:14

makes sense that they would use an

2:42:15

existing facility and just enlarge it

2:42:17

instead of start from nothing. Right, of

2:42:19

course. Especially if it's abandoned.

2:42:21

Yeah. Yeah.

2:42:22

And it also makes sense that if Roswell

2:42:25

was real and if they really did

2:42:28

find a crashed UFO in 1947

2:42:31

like in the 1950s they'd be like, "Let's

2:42:33

get rid of this road."

2:42:35

Right?

2:42:35

>> Yeah, if we're putting this out there,

2:42:37

if we're building this facility out

2:42:39

there. And if they did have it, that

2:42:41

also makes sense that they worked on

2:42:42

this for decades. You come along in

2:42:44

1988, they've got this happening in the

2:42:46

1950s and it's still there. Yeah.

2:42:49

Yeah. I think what happened is when the

2:42:52

CIA took over cuz CIA is the one took

2:42:54

over area They're the ones that Area 51.

2:42:57

I think what happened is as they took

2:42:59

over, they just removed the the road.

2:43:02

It wasn't even because there was a UF

2:43:04

a flying saucer there. I I just think

2:43:06

they got in there, took control of that

2:43:09

terrain, that whole landscape and said

2:43:12

"Remove it off the maps." Because it's

2:43:14

there prior to them taking ownership of

2:43:16

that land.

2:43:18

So, I mean

2:43:20

it's clear that there was a road there

2:43:23

and then they came in, CIA said take it

2:43:25

out and S4 might have had already an

2:43:28

installat Not it wasn't an installation,

2:43:30

but they probably had a a tunnel in

2:43:32

there already because they were it was a

2:43:34

mine.

2:43:35

So, it was an easier way to build a big

2:43:37

facility in the in the side of the hill.

2:43:39

Makes sense. It does make sense. And

2:43:41

then there's also the images that you

2:43:42

got of what looks like the hangar bay

2:43:45

doors that are camouflaged. And I have

2:43:48

to say that Got to go again? Yeah.

2:43:50

Sorry. No worries. I'm That's all good.

2:43:53

That

2:43:54

>> [laughter]

2:43:56

>> Technology will fix that.

2:43:59

It'll remove your prostate.

2:44:01

>> [laughter]

2:44:01

>> Turn you into a alien.

2:44:03

Um so, though the that image that you

2:44:06

got um of the unfortunately it's kind of

2:44:09

blurry, but it you do see something that

2:44:13

looks very similar to what you'd expect

2:44:15

to be camouflage garage bay doors. I got

2:44:18

contacted by a guy called Scott

2:44:21

Mitchell. And I was getting contacted by

2:44:24

everybody, Joe. Everybody everybody was

2:44:26

trying to get in in find getting to make

2:44:28

me work with them or use something they

2:44:30

found. So, I was I was ignoring 95 99%

2:44:34

of people's like It's getting tiring.

2:44:36

Everybody's like, "You got to listen to

2:44:37

me. I know stuff about that." I'm like,

2:44:39

"Whatever. I'm working with Bob Lazar. I

2:44:41

I have enough right now."

2:44:43

But this guy we had built the base.

2:44:46

And I knew exactly where it was. I knew

2:44:48

exactly the layout. And this guy he not

2:44:50

only contacted me, but he sent me an

2:44:53

image that he had that he had drawn. He

2:44:55

didn't want to send me the real what he

2:44:57

had found, but he says, "Here it is.

2:44:59

This is where the doors are and this is

2:45:00

exactly where they they point to."

2:45:03

I looked at the image and I said

2:45:06

"Not bad." I mean, he really nailed it

2:45:08

in the image and I thought "Okay." I I I

2:45:11

at first I thought somebody on my team

2:45:14

leaked something we had. To be honest,

2:45:16

I'm like, "Ah, who did that? Who sent

2:45:18

out one of our renders to somebody?" And

2:45:21

cuz that's what I thought. And they're

2:45:22

like, "No, no, no. This is what?" So, I

2:45:25

I

2:45:25

I

2:45:26

talked to this guy and

2:45:29

he's a he's really really good at

2:45:31

researching and he ended up becoming

2:45:34

probably one of the best I've ever like

2:45:36

he's one of the best I've ever seen. His

2:45:38

name is Scott Mitchell.

2:45:39

And he says, "There are pictures that

2:45:42

were taken in 2020." And they ironically

2:45:44

those pictures were taken on December

2:45:46

25th, 2020, which is Christmas Day

2:45:49

in the middle of COVID.

2:45:51

Which means the base might have been

2:45:53

shut down.

2:45:54

If you think about that, you know what I

2:45:55

mean? Like it's COVID. It's like in the

2:45:57

heat of it. Plus it's 20 It's 20 It's

2:45:59

25th of December. So, there's probably

2:46:01

nothing going on there. And this private

2:46:04

uh

2:46:05

pilot in in a small Cessna requested

2:46:08

access inside the perimeter

2:46:10

and they granted him permission.

2:46:13

And he had a big Nikon camera on board

2:46:15

with a big telescopic zoom and he took a

2:46:18

ton of pictures and they're

2:46:19

amazing. They're all public. They're all

2:46:21

available. You can download them.

2:46:23

And there's this these pictures of

2:46:26

Papoose Lake and the hill. But they were

2:46:28

being used on the internet for a long

2:46:30

time. Everybody was like, "See, Bob

2:46:31

Lazar is is a fraud. It's not real.

2:46:33

There's nothing there."

2:46:35

Well, of course you can't see it. It's

2:46:37

First of all, it's 17 mi away and

2:46:40

secondly, they're not designed for you

2:46:41

to see it. And that also let's talk

2:46:44

about something that Bob was talking

2:46:46

about in 1988. The picture was taken in

2:46:48

2020. I mean, there could be

2:46:51

That's could be a different landscape

2:46:52

now. Anyway.

2:46:53

So,

2:46:54

he said, "Look, this image if you change

2:46:57

the contrast, you got to keep the

2:46:59

original, but just move and try to

2:47:01

extract data from your image." You know,

2:47:04

anybody who knows how to use that do

2:47:06

that with photography, you can do that.

2:47:09

And he and he pulls out these this this

2:47:11

geometric these geometric shapes. You

2:47:14

could see them. They're they're like

2:47:15

little They look like rectangles.

2:47:18

And I thought

2:47:20

"What if this is not real?" I I'm I was

2:47:23

super skeptical. I'll be honest with

2:47:25

you. I wasn't I'm We're talking about

2:47:26

the the picture with the doors on the

2:47:29

the hangar doors the hangar doors, the

2:47:30

one from Scott Mitchell, the one that we

2:47:31

have in the film. All right, right. And

2:47:34

uh

2:47:35

And so I I I didn't believe it. I

2:47:36

thought there's no way. I go, "There's

2:47:38

no way this is real. I I I don't believe

2:47:40

it." So, Scott was really cool. He said,

2:47:42

"Look, man, I I understand you're

2:47:44

skeptic. I get it. I want you to do me a

2:47:47

favor.

2:47:48

Go online. Search it yourself. I won't

2:47:51

even tell you where it is. I'll just

2:47:53

tell you what who who took the pictures.

2:47:56

E The The only thing he gave us is the

2:47:58

picture number is 0501. That's what the

2:48:01

picture number is. He goes, "If you find

2:48:03

it, have what whoever on your team play

2:48:05

around with it until you see it." That

2:48:07

was fair cuz I said, "Okay." Cuz I mean,

2:48:10

if it's if it's out there, there's two

2:48:12

different places it was

2:48:14

on online and the one place we got it

2:48:16

from was the source of it, okay? Was the

2:48:20

from the photographer, the guy himself.

2:48:24

We take it. I had three different people

2:48:27

on my team. Everybody's really good at

2:48:29

all this stuff on my team. So, I said,

2:48:30

"Guys,

2:48:31

this is what we need to see. If you guys

2:48:33

could pull it up, I I I'm I'm not going

2:48:37

to be a skeptical. Everybody got it

2:48:39

almost in the same time. They were

2:48:41

playing around and eventually the the

2:48:43

easiest software we used to get that

2:48:46

detail out was DaVinci Resolve. And with

2:48:48

DaVinci, it's a faster process than if

2:48:51

you're messing around with Photoshop or

2:48:52

whatever.

2:48:53

And it came and I was like, "Oh my god."

2:48:57

It it it's it's really there. You could

2:48:59

clear So, what I did is I had them scan

2:49:02

the rest of the picture because it's

2:49:04

pixels, right? So, I said, "Let's also

2:49:07

see if it's not some pixel pixelation.

2:49:10

Is it maybe just what the photo does?

2:49:13

Maybe we just got lucky and it looks

2:49:14

like that there. Maybe it's going to

2:49:15

show something similar elsewhere." And

2:49:18

it doesn't. And then I said, "All right,

2:49:20

go get me 0502. I want 0500. I want"

2:49:23

because the guy kept snapping pictures.

2:49:25

I want you to do the same Like we went

2:49:27

really military. Like I said, "I want to

2:49:29

make sure this is this is real. I don't

2:49:32

I'm not going to put our name on this if

2:49:33

it's not." And then it ended up being

2:49:36

other pictures also show it, by the way,

2:49:38

cuz he he went click click click. So,

2:49:40

it's like it's not just that one. That's

2:49:42

the clearest one. And so, I was at a

2:49:46

certain point I go to Bob's house and

2:49:48

I'm sitting there and the guy

2:49:51

calls me. Scott Mitchell calls me and he

2:49:54

he has no idea I'm with I'm with Bob

2:49:55

Lazar.

2:49:56

So, I pick up. It's a video call.

2:49:59

And he goes, "Hey, man, what's going

2:50:00

on?" I said, "Well, look." I said, "Look

2:50:02

who I'm with." And he just like exploded

2:50:04

cuz he was like, "Oh my god, you're with

2:50:05

Bob." And I said, "Show him." And so,

2:50:07

Bob was there and we showed it we ended

2:50:10

up transferring the call on a on a Zoom

2:50:12

call. And he showed it and you said,

2:50:15

"Yeah." Like I remember you going,

2:50:17

"Yeah, that's it." Yeah, yeah, that.

2:50:19

What did that look like to you when you

2:50:20

saw those images?

2:50:21

>> that was that was awesome.

2:50:22

>> Yeah.

2:50:23

>> It was awesome. What what was really

2:50:25

shocking was the first hangar was

2:50:28

bigger. Yeah.

2:50:29

>> And that's what we discovered. Yeah.

2:50:30

>> Yeah.

2:50:31

>> Yeah, cuz the first hangar is the big

2:50:32

hangar and there's a bunch of smaller

2:50:33

ones. And I said, "Jesus, the first

2:50:35

hangar is bigger. You You found it. You

2:50:38

found it." So, I mean, that that was I I

2:50:42

just lit up at that point.

2:50:44

>> it was

2:50:44

>> What happens if you look at that site

2:50:45

with Google Earth?

2:50:47

That is with the Google Earth.

2:50:48

>> No. No, that was the picture, but Google

2:50:50

Earth but Google Earth and I'll tell you

2:50:52

something about Google That that was the

2:50:54

>> That wasn't with the Google Earth?

2:50:55

>> No, the the picture is a real photo.

2:50:57

The picture of the hangar doors is a

2:50:59

real photo.

2:51:00

>> I said that was Google Earth.

2:51:01

>> No. No, the picture is a real photo. The

2:51:02

Google Earth, though, you see that in

2:51:04

the film.

2:51:05

>> Yeah.

2:51:06

I can't make this up. I didn't want to

2:51:08

put anything in the film. That was one

2:51:10

of my things. I did not want to put

2:51:12

anything in the film that would make me,

2:51:14

the whole team, or even Bob look like

2:51:17

we're trying to like

2:51:19

MacGyver some something in there. It has

2:51:21

to be you go look for it yourself. It's

2:51:24

public. If you don't believe it, go

2:51:27

check it out yourself. I That's how

2:51:29

That's what was That's the only thing we

2:51:30

allowed in there. And

2:51:33

when you go on Papoose Lake,

2:51:36

on June 20 So, June 22nd of 2024,

2:51:42

June of 2024,

2:51:45

Google Earth changed. There's you're

2:51:48

you're going to be right over Papoose

2:51:50

Lake. If you zoom in, you're you're not

2:51:52

going to notice it cuz it it's kind of a

2:51:54

yellowish a tint to the to the image.

2:51:58

And I remember going, "Why is it so

2:52:00

yellow?" I mean, I'd been there so many

2:52:01

times. I was like, "Why Why it

2:52:03

turned so yellow?"

2:52:05

And I'm like I saw I I'm zooming out and

2:52:07

I'm like, "Why did they it up?" I

2:52:09

thought they ruined everything.

2:52:11

It's all yellow. And as I go further,

2:52:14

you see this box that is like right over

2:52:18

Papoose. So, I'm like, "What is that?"

2:52:21

And I put my mouse over it and wherever

2:52:24

you're in the box, it's June 22nd, 2024.

2:52:29

And as soon as you put your mouse

2:52:31

outside of the box, well, it's an older

2:52:33

date.

2:52:35

And I thought, "Oh, they just did that."

2:52:38

And the mis- So, I think what they

2:52:41

thought they were going to do

2:52:43

is that new filter right over Papoose

2:52:46

Lake removes every possible detail on

2:52:50

the terrain the landscape.

2:52:52

Where the brushes are and the the Joshua

2:52:54

trees are. It really really removes all

2:52:57

that.

2:52:57

>> everything.

2:52:57

>> It blurs everything out. But it makes

2:53:00

they made a mistake. They made a huge

2:53:02

error. I believe so. And I think if

2:53:04

they're listening, they're going to go,

2:53:05

"Yeah,

2:53:06

our bad." To the to the DoD cuz they're

2:53:09

going cuz you see all the tracks on the

2:53:12

lake.

2:53:13

It for some reason that filter

2:53:16

accentuates the tracks on Papoose Lake

2:53:20

and removes the landscape brushes for I

2:53:23

don't know why. It just did that. And I

2:53:26

was like, "Holy you see all these

2:53:29

tracks." What it looks like is they're

2:53:31

trying to purposely obscure the area.

2:53:33

>> Yes. And the fact that it's in a very

2:53:35

clear box.

2:53:36

>> Yeah. And you talked about that in the

2:53:38

film. And it's kind of bonkers.

2:53:39

>> And what's crazy

2:53:40

>> no reason

2:53:41

>> There's no reason.

2:53:42

>> one little square box out of Why? Why?

2:53:45

That nobody goes to, right? Yeah. So,

2:53:48

they tried to obscure it. Yeah. Yeah.

2:53:49

Why would

2:53:50

>> I thought, "Jeez, dude, we got to put

2:53:52

this in there. I mean, it's so cool,

2:53:54

right?" It's all very compelling.

2:53:56

Um

2:53:58

I think we should wrap this up, but uh

2:54:00

the film's excellent. Thank you.

2:54:01

>> Congratulations. You can tell it took a

2:54:03

tremendous amount of effort. And uh I

2:54:05

could tell by watching you watch it when

2:54:08

we watched it together that it had an

2:54:09

insane impact on you. It it really

2:54:12

affected me.

2:54:12

>> before I saw it with you. So, you're

2:54:14

just seeing it again. It's just like

2:54:17

it's bonkers. Yeah, it it really

2:54:20

affected me. And uh

2:54:22

is Is there anything else you want to

2:54:25

say? There's a couple things I want to

2:54:27

bring up.

2:54:27

>> Okay.

2:54:28

>> You know.

2:54:28

>> Yeah. Um

2:54:30

Just because I stuff Luigi has told me,

2:54:33

people think that I make millions of

2:54:35

dollars off of this stuff.

2:54:37

>> [laughter]

2:54:37

>> Oh, yeah. And I don't. I would I would

2:54:40

love to sign on to the millions of

2:54:42

dollars program. [laughter]

2:54:43

Um you know, Jeremy made made his movie

2:54:47

and I didn't get a cent from Jeremy's

2:54:49

movie. I said, "Anything you make, give

2:54:51

to George." Um

2:54:53

you know, it Luigi has spent millions of

2:54:57

dollars of his own money, literally,

2:54:59

right?

2:54:59

>> Literally.

2:55:00

>> know, making this stuff. And I can't see

2:55:03

how he's ever going to make the money

2:55:05

back. If he does, that's awesome. I

2:55:07

drive a uh 1980-something

2:55:11

uh

2:55:12

>> Not a 1980. You drive a

2:55:14

>> No, 19

2:55:15

>> 2018 No, a 20 2018 Chevy Bolt electric

2:55:19

car. I mean, it's a car you'd buy for

2:55:22

your teenage daughter. It's embarrassing

2:55:24

to drive. It cost me $18,000.

2:55:27

You know, my house on the 10 acres cost

2:55:30

450 grand. And you know, back when I

2:55:33

when I got it, I mean, that's that's I

2:55:35

work 6 to 7 days a week at United

2:55:39

Nuclear, my business. I mean, if there's

2:55:42

anyone that wants to give me millions of

2:55:43

dollars, please [laughter]

2:55:45

contact contact me immediately because I

2:55:48

would like to retire. But but no, I

2:55:50

don't make millions of dollars off this

2:55:52

stuff. And uh I

2:55:56

I my my wife and I do fine. We grow our

2:55:58

food in our greenhouse and we live in

2:56:00

our little place up in the mountains and

2:56:02

that that that's it. But I um you know,

2:56:05

this is Luigi's thing. That's why he's

2:56:08

here. I think the film's going to be

2:56:09

very successful and I think you're

2:56:11

probably going to make money off of it.

2:56:12

At least I'm hoping.

2:56:13

>> he'll make money off it.

2:56:14

>> Well,

2:56:15

>> [laughter]

2:56:15

>> he'll make money off of it.

2:56:17

>> I Thank you, Joe. Um

2:56:19

I think we should wrap it up. Thank you

2:56:20

very much, Luigi. Knocked it out of the

2:56:22

park.

2:56:23

>> you.

2:56:23

>> It's fantastic. Bob, great to see you

2:56:25

again, as always. I'm sorry I had to pee

2:56:27

so much. That's okay.

2:56:29

>> [laughter]

2:56:31

>> It's understandable. It's

2:56:32

understandable. And uh again, the film

2:56:35

uh let's show it on the screen, Jamie,

2:56:37

so people can know uh where they could

2:56:39

see it when they

2:56:40

when it's available.

2:56:41

>> Yeah, it's available actually as of

2:56:44

right now.

2:56:45

Let's play the trailer. We'll we'll

2:56:46

we'll end it with

2:56:47

>> let's do that. S4 The Bob Lazar Story.

2:56:50

We'll end it with a trailer.

2:56:53

It's on Amazon and uh We Are Not Alone.

2:56:56

>> Not Alone, right?

2:57:15

Physical evidence now exists which

2:57:17

proves that there is life elsewhere and

2:57:19

at least one form of that life has been

2:57:20

here.

2:57:23

As of 1989, that evidence was in the

2:57:26

custody of the United States government.

2:57:29

Between December of 1988 and April of

2:57:32

1989, I worked as a senior staff

2:57:34

physicist in what has to be the most

2:57:36

secret project in history.

2:57:40

My job in this program was to be part of

2:57:42

a back-engineering team.

2:57:45

>> [music]

2:57:46

>> This particular disk appeared to be in

2:57:48

excellent condition and because of its

2:57:50

sleek appearance, I nicknamed it the

2:57:52

sport model.

2:57:55

The goal in this program was to see if

2:57:57

the technology of the disk could be

2:57:59

duplicated with Earth materials.

2:58:02

To start up the reactor, of course, we

2:58:04

need [music] some element 115.

2:58:07

In fact, you need 223 g machined into a

2:58:10

wedge like this.

2:58:12

The program at Area S4 [music] consisted

2:58:14

of three projects: Project Galileo,

2:58:16

Project Sidekick, and Project Looking

2:58:18

Glass.

2:58:20

The file on top was [music] Project

2:58:22

Galileo. And as it turned out, that's

2:58:24

the project that I was part of. And that

2:58:28

clearly

2:58:30

[music]

2:58:32

referred to

2:58:33

alien spacecraft.

2:58:38

Just cannot be a secret from

2:58:40

from anyone, [music] not just the

2:58:41

American people, but the rest of the

2:58:42

world.

2:58:48

All this stuff is something that

2:58:49

happened to him. It's not who he is.

2:58:55

They're doing everything they can to

2:58:57

keep this information secret.

2:59:02

That's empirical evidence. I saw a craft

2:59:05

to do that, thanks to him.

2:59:09

>> [music]

2:59:09

>> Help this story spills.

2:59:13

And the world change.

2:59:23

Bye.

2:59:29

>> [music]

Joe Rogan Experience #2479 - Bob Lazar & Luigi Vendittelli

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