Joe Rogan podcast, check it out. The Joe
Rogan experience. TRAIN BY DAY, JOE
ROGAN PODCAST BY NIGHT. ALL DAY.
WHAT'S UP, GENTLEMEN? HEY, JOE. [music]
Great to see you again, Bob. Same here.
Long time.
>> Luigi, Joe. Um you are still to this day
the most watched ever podcast we have
ever done that's on YouTube.
>> That's That's just unreal. It's unreal.
It is unreal cuz it shows you how many
people are just absolutely fascinated by
the story and what you guys have done in
this new film
is essentially recreate S-4 and using AI
recreate you as a young man and these
experiences that you had and it was
really excellent. Luigi, uh you're the
one who put the film together. You
figured it all out and first of all,
what was the technology that you guys
used to recreate everything you guys
did?
>> I just want to say there's there's about
10% AI in the film, but there's 90%
Blender. And that's actually handmade
CGI. So, everything you see is all
handmade.
And even the de-aging of Bob Lazar, we
scanned Bob, we went over to his house,
scanned his face, took a process of
de-aging him through that, then creating
a digital model of Bob in different
ages, and then placing him in the
environment. And then
in some instances at the very end, we
perfected or kind of put a bow on it
with a little touch of AI, but the whole
thing is handmade. So, the craft, the
environment, the Papoose Lake, the the
the facility, the equipment, and the
people were all made. And some of the
people are actually real actors that we
put in there. So, it's not It's It's a
There's One of the guys that is Barry in
the film is a guy called Luis Martinez
that's been working with me for the past
10 years and he laughs at it cuz he
says, "I can't believe I'm Barry." You
know, so Does he look anything like
Barry? Actually, he does. He does.
That's why we chose him. Yeah, yeah.
Where is Barry The actual Barry now?
I don't know, you know, I kind of
thought at one point after all this
happened, we would at least hear from
one of those guys.
But, uh I never heard from anybody after
you know, after the the initial
the release of all the information,
yeah.
It seems like Well, I don't know. If
people are able to keep secrets for this
long, it's got to be very difficult to
just blurt it out. Like, if you know, if
you're holding on to a secret for 20,
30, 40 years, you're
It's like I guess these guys were
lifers, though. Yeah. I mean, they spent
most of their time there. They spent at
least 2 weeks at a time and had 1 week
off. So, they stayed at the base. I
mean, these guys were hardcore.
I had just come in on the project. You
know, so um
I don't know. I don't know what happened
to him. I'd love to know.
I suspect that Dennis Mariani, my
supervisor, died. I've seen people track
him down, you know, all the way to point
to speaking to his family and they said,
"Yeah, he had some classified job out in
the desert or something." And they
showed me his gravestone and stuff. So,
you know, at least
they were able to track him down, but
I've never heard of any leads on Barry
or Renee or anybody like that.
What is it like seeing the recreation of
it in a film? Cuz I mean, it essentially
it was your
direction, for lack of a better word,
your description of it, you you telling
them exactly every everything was laid
out. And then once they recreated it,
what is that feeling like when you watch
it?
Well, the final product is absolutely
mind-blowing because as I've said to
Luigi, it looks like you guys downloaded
that out of my brain.
I mean
you know, you can describe something a
hundred times and until you actually
make a a picture, it doesn't become
clear.
But, uh you know, this took years. I
think it was like five and a half years
from when I first met Luigi and he said,
"Yeah, I can do this." And um
the quality kept improving to where he
started showing me pictures and I went,
"Jesus, that's That's really it. It's
not really it. It's really it." And uh
I mean, it it blew me away.
Later on, he showed me a 3D environment
where I could put goggles on and move
around inside. I mean, that made the
hair stand up on my arms. It was It was
unbelievable. So, um
I don't know if I could really describe
how that made me feel, but it felt like
I was teleported back there. And that's,
you know, that's when really
I developed an admiration for Luigi's
talent. I said, you know, I'm behind
this and uh flew out to Canada a couple
times. I didn't have much to do with the
film other than
I guess a couple times going out there
and going, "No, that's right. That's the
wrong color. Move this here. Do that."
And uh but those guys spent over 3 years
working on it. And um
you know, what they And they never
showed me anything, you know, I'd speak
to Luigi, you know, a couple times a
month and you know, he'd always say,
"You
Oh my god, you won't believe this." I
said, "Yeah,
show me."
Yeah, no, it's not It's not done yet.
So, I really didn't get it to to see
anything till close to the end, but when
I did, um
really, without trying to sound
dramatic, it really put tears in my eyes
going that it
that's it. That's it. You You did it.
Just stop. It's perfect. Why? So, I had
the pleasure of watching the movie with
you and sitting there with you where
there was a bunch of times in the movie
you're like
Yeah, yeah.
>> You could tell. Yeah. It is just like
>> I could feel that place. I I could feel
it watching that movie. It It It just It
really freaks me out because
as I've said before, it's not like what
I saw. It's It's exactly what I saw. Um
It's It's perfect. It's just like Luigi
was at S-4 with a camera. So, um It's
very
>> It was. It's a It's a very unique
documentary in that regard. And And
watching it with you, seeing you
experience this thing, and then me
trying to imagine what it's like for
you.
You're this young scientist who gets
brought in on this thing without much
explanation, and then all of a sudden
you're confronted by this craft. And you
you know, the way it's broken down in
the film and you get to actually see you
viewing this thing and being in the
presence of this thing for the first
time. It's just I could just only
imagine
what that must have been like for you.
And it's so weird to watch you watch it
again and see your wheels spin. You're
like, "What the happened [laughter]
to my life, man? Right. What did they do
to me? What did they
What did they
make me experience? Like, what the hell?
Yeah, I
I really can't fill in the blanks there.
It's uh
I I want to just say that there was a
time when Bob got angry at me a lot cuz
I wouldn't show him. And he was like,
"Come on, show me." And I said, "It's
not ready yet. I don't want to show you
something." But, at a certain point, we
had to.
And Bob started remembering more stuff
Yeah, yeah, that's true. Mhm. It It
really made a big difference when he
when he showed me some things and, you
know, walking down the corridor here and
turn, "Oh, stop. Wait, there's another
door there." I mean, it was like I was
going back into the facility and uh
really brought I mean, actually seeing
it again, uh really brought some things
back that I that I had completely
forgotten about. So, that
you know. Well, what's really
fascinating is
for people that don't know your story,
you came up with the story, you talked
to George Knapp in Was it '89?
'88. '88, '89, somewhere in there, yeah.
So, late '80s, you essentially told the
exact same story all these years. And
then
within the last, you know, 9, 10 years,
we've started to get all these reports.
There was the New York Times story,
there was the GoFast video and the FLIR
video, and all these videos that show a
craft that's moving the way you
described this sport model moving.
Right. Which kind of freaked a lot of
people out with the way it rotated and
turned.
>> Rotate Yeah, it does the belly roll,
faces at the bottom towards where it's
want to go, and then it it takes off and
yeah. It's exactly how you described all
those years ago, which is really
crazy.
Well, that's I mean, that's the way it
was. But, it's just It's It's crazy
because you had this story way, way, way
back then and everybody's like, "This
guy's just making things up. This is all
cockamamie bullshit."
And then you see those videos from these
fighter jets and you're like, "Whoa.
Wait a minute. This is It's moving the
exact same way he described. It's doing
what he described in 1989."
Yeah.
>> [snorts]
>> Yeah.
Um
Time to take a drink. Cheers.
>> [laughter]
>> Cheers. Cuz it's so weird. I can't I
mean, I've had so many conversations
with people. And you know, one of the
things that comes up is uh do you think
Bob Lazar's telling the truth?
And I say, "Look, I don't know. There's
no way I can know, but he doesn't seem
like he's lying. I've been around a lot
of liars."
>> Look, nobody can know unless you're
there.
You know, I'm the biggest skeptic of
all. Although, if you look at Wikipedia,
it says I'm a conspiracy
theorist or something.
>> Yeah, conspiracy theorist. I think it
says I'm a far-right podcaster. Yeah,
all right. I mean,
>> [laughter]
>> yeah, it's crazy. But,
dog, I lost my train of thought
now.
Well, they that that if if you if like
basically are you a conspiracy theorist?
No, you don't even look at this stuff.
>> Well, you've had if you have a lie, you
have one lie. It's amazing cuz you've
told the same one for all these years.
>> It's a pretty detailed lie. It's also
not normal. Like, normally when people
lie, they get bored with the same lie
and then they come up with another lie
and then there's some other story.
There's some You catch them. Eventually,
you catch them. There's some cockamamie
new thing that they come up with and
it's the type of people that are that
deceptive. I mean, it's just it doesn't
make sense. It doesn't fit the standard
model of someone
>> Well, there are other people involved
with it. I mean, uh you know, this is
where the first time Gene Huff finally
is on film, you know, cuz when I had the
you know, the test flight information,
um it was one of the not one of the was
the first person I told about that and
uh you know, we were all able to go out
and and see it and so everybody knew
that I wasn't crazy.
Um
it was And then also all the
confirmation that you were being
with. That you know, when you're in the
gym, they would show up and open up your
lock car doors and open up your trunk
and leave it there so you'd go out there
and see it.
They'd go to your house when you weren't
there. Yeah, they were even Right, they
were even following George Knapp and and
uh
I mean, all of us. Anybody that had
anything to do with it at that time. Uh
they were keeping eyes on. It was uh Not
just eyes, but a lot of intimidation
tactics. Just letting you know
letting you know that they could touch
you. Yeah.
To I I've really worked for decades to
push this out of my mind. So, it's
always tough to bring it back, you know,
and and talk about it. And it's Yeah,
although it might be funny now, it
wasn't funny then at all. Um it was a
really stressful time.
And still
is a very stressful thing for me. I know
it's so many years ago, but do you
remember the thought that came in your
mind when you realized that it wasn't
ours?
Do I remember the thought? Do you
remember the experience? Yeah, I
remember I remember the feeling.
>> Of recognize cuz initially, you saw the
American flag sticking out.
>> saw the American flag when I first went
in it the first time I went in through
the hangar door instead of around the
back, um
you know, I slid my hand across it, saw
the American flag and I thought, "Oh my
god, you know, this explains the UFO
nuts, you know?" Um It's ours. Yeah,
this is ours. This is a new top secret
fighter. We can't with a new propulsion
system and uh
you know, it it explains everything
because I never believed in flying
saucers. I thought people were nuts.
Um
But, when they started reviewing
everything with me, they were trying I
was trying to replace somebody or they
were trying to use me to replace
somebody as quick as possible.
And um
they had two directives.
One was to
Directive one was to duplicate the
technology with available material at
any cost, which is exact verbatim what
it was, and directive two was to be able
to disable this technology at a distance
at any cost.
And
you know, once you start thinking about
that,
Wait, don't you guys know how the thing
you built worked? And it's kind of like
they left that out. That this [laughter]
this By the way, this isn't ours. And
Barry is the guy that filled me in
going, "No, no, no. This is an alien
craft and
we need to figure out how this works.
Look at the technology here. I mean,
this is decades, light years ahead of
where we are.
And uh
I I it it it was a
it was a shock, really, to me. I
remember going home that night and just
laying in bed and reviewing everything
that everybody said that day. And uh
I really don't remember
how I felt
the following days, but I it was just a
different It was just a different
feeling. Like the world just changed.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it was
I don't know. I really can't put it into
words. Well, I couldn't imagine. I
couldn't imagine what that experience is
like. And it's also very strange that
they would bring you in and not
specifically state to you that this is
not ours.
They just bring you in and just give you
a directive. This is your what you were
trying to accomplish. Well, they gave me
the they gave me a bunch of briefings.
Everything was moving at a very fast
pace and I don't know why. Um
I think I mentioned in the movie
uh
right prior to I got there, there
there were Russians involved in it. You
know, from what I can ascertain, there
was an exchange of information and then
we discovered something, something of
great importance. And of of course,
kicked the Russians out and just held
onto that information ourselves. And uh
there was kind of a knowledge vacuum
there. There was also an accident and I
was told I was replacing someone
uh
that was injured. I believe he actually
died. Um There's no record of who this
person was or has anybody ever tried to
figure out it out?
>> I don't know. I don't have any names. I
just know that Barry told me, you know,
I'm replacing somebody that he used to
work with and he was without a lab
partner for a while. So, when I came in
there, um How long's a while?
I don't know, but I mean, that brings up
a good point.
First of all, we're dealing with alien
or another civilization technology,
whether it, you know, it's from another
dimension, another time, another planet.
I mean, who really knows? Um
So,
I'll eventually get to answer the
question here, but uh
wouldn't you think this place would be
more like the lunar receiving lab where
everything is white? You know, so you
can see a speck of dust. There's
everything is sterile.
People are being extremely careful with
what they're doing, but you're not
seeing that.
This is in now something akin to an
aircraft hangar in the middle of the
desert. There's dust on everything.
People are taking everything
nonchalantly. There's a There's a
freaking poster about the thing, you
know, a there here poster there. Um
Thank you, Luigi, for getting me that.
We got to figure out a place for that.
We'll put it in here somewhere. It's
awesome. I mean, but but I mean, they
went to the trouble of making a poster.
They actually I think right here. That's
a good place.
>> That right there. That's a good spot
right there. Um but they uh I mean, they
actually cut one of the amplifiers out
of the craft. So, that my point is
>> This is in the film as well. You could
see.
>> Yeah, but my my point is it's so
nonchalant
at this point. When they first had it,
it had to be at that level. And they
became so used to it,
so familiar with it
that, you know, to them it just became
like another
you know, fighter aircraft or something
from another country. So, it's uh
It must have been there a long time as
what my point is.
Because Look, as soon as you have
something that unique,
you don't let it just sit there in a
hangar and be exposed to the environment
and have security people walking by and
people touching it. I mean, it's in an
isolated, sealed, secure environment and
they were past that. So, I think it had
been there for a decade or decades.
A long time. And these guys were
intimately familiar with it, not afraid
of it, you know, and
knew what was going on. So, they
essentially had gotten just completely
acclimated to the fact that this craft
exists, that it was there, and there had
been relatively little progress as far
as figuring it out and figuring out what
it does and how to recreate it. So, it
just kind of sat there. And so, I think
they were making very little progress
and I think they kept going over the
same road again and again and they
probably had other experts there and
just didn't and I think the reason I got
hired is cuz I was a guy out in left
field that didn't necessarily follow
what was going on. I mean, the biggest
distractors in the
in in
you know,
to me, anyway, in the story, um are
other scientists, other physicists
going, "Well, they would have hired me
because I'm the top guy in the field."
Yeah, you you probably are, but I think
they hired plenty of you guys and you
just kept going down the same road and
didn't do anything. I think they were
looking for somebody that just would
have some radical idea and just to push
the,
you know, the project forward because
everything had stalled when I got there.
And it was I think they were just in a
desperate move to make some progress.
One of the things you talked about in
the first podcast that I think is really
important is that the only way for
science to really progress is that
these various
scientists have to be able to
communicate and you have to be able to
share ideas and you have to be able to
collaborate but that's not how this was
run because it was so top secret
everything was compartmentalized.
Like the metallurgist weren't talking to
the propulsion people who weren't
talking to if there were biologics
experts like everybody was
>> Super frustrating because I I think I I
don't remember exactly where that
started again it's 40 years ago but I
think it started with uh
with the seats
and uh no it start it started with
actual skin of the craft because
everything looked like it was made from
the same material
and I wanted some information
um
about you know the skin the
superstructure of the craft and they
said no that's that's restricted what's
you know we we need a reason for you to
I I just want to see
if everything is exactly the same
material and what I call the seats in
the craft I still don't know if they
were the seats but they might be I think
it'd be hilarious if they were actually
something else um
but I wanted some information on those
and that was restricted information too
there were other groups working on that
so they compartmentalized stuff so much
there was no exchange of information
between any groups I mean you could
submit a written response that your
supervisor in my case Dennis would have
to carry over and they would have to
approve and you know you'd get a two or
three line response from
you know the other group but it's it's
just that's not how science works
science works on the free exchange of
information and it they they were just
killing themselves with security and it
would it was really frustrating it was
terribly frustrating. So was this a
function of security people people that
are concentrating on talk top secret
that don't truly understand how
collaborative science works?
>> that's it right there you can stop right
there they had no idea how that works.
>> Because it stands to reason that
whatever that thing was made out of
probably in some way interacts with the
propulsion system and whatever controls
that are in it that this material has to
be particularly unique. Exactly that's
exactly my point and I suspected the
material was an electric. You know what
an electric is?
>> No. Okay you know like a magnet
a permanent magnet is like
you know it's a magnet it's forever it's
a magnet it has a magnetic field an
electric is a material that has a
permanent static field to it.
A static electric field to it and
I strongly suspected that's that the
craft was made out of an electric and I
was not because again that's the
material science guys I was not allowed
to connect that to but
that's so important to connect it to the
propulsion system and how the propulsion
system uh interacts with the amplifier
of the emitters and I just I
I wasn't allowed you know the
information I needed so it was uh
I don't know it it it was self-defeating
is what it was.
>> It seems like they were treating it like
a fighter jet or automobile like in an
automobile you have the outer area the
shell of the car you have the doors the
skins the hood the roof all that stuff
which is meant but then you have the
propulsion system which is the engine
and the transmission and the tires and
the wheels and the suspension
but they're all not connected they're
connected cuz they're bolted together
but they have different functions I
think the idea the concept at least is
as I'm gathering from you is that this
thing all worked as a cohesive unit.
>> Right with no physical connection
between
you know between the subsystems.
And all of it made out of the same
material.
At least on the outside at least on the
outside all made of the same material
and the other crafts all had the same
power plant in them.
So that brings to mind you know like uh
like a GM plant that makes a car with a
Chevy 350 and makes you know a dozen
different models to it.
>> Right. So that makes you think about boy
is there a a factory making these things
and
you know your brain can just wander off
in directions but I tried to stick with
just the technology. Um
Did you know who the metallurgist were?
The people that were
>> saw I saw them you know I know them and
Barry we'd go to the lunch room Barry
would point them out you know And you
weren't allowed to communicate with them
at all? Oh hell no you have a a lab
partner which might in in uh
my case it was Barry and you're you have
you're allowed to talk to your lab
partner
but you can't talk to any other group
that has to go through a written request
has to go to your um supervisor and
he'll bring it over to them and they'll
bring it back and so on and so forth but
uh
it's it's ridiculous that
that that it slows down any progress you
might be making.
Which is why they were probably stalled
out for decades.
>> Yeah. Did you ever expressly
communicate to them that you
you theorized at least that this all
could be connected that there's there's
something about the way the metal works
Oh we all knew that.
We all knew that.
Because we'd get requests from other
you know from other groups and you could
tell they're desperate just like we are
and and and fighting against the system.
>> What kind of requests would you get?
Just exactly what we found out you know
what where is the energy being
transferred here if the reactor fires up
is there a field present around it or is
the field just absorbed into the emitter
and you can touch the
you know reactor itself and just little
things like that you know if uh
and actually that that was an important
thing when the reactor's operating
is it perfectly tuned the emitter to
where it removes all the energy from the
reactor and pushes it out the bottom and
the answer to that was no I remember
that as a specific request from you know
from one of the groups
the metallurgy group is the one that we
really wanted to hear from.
Uh
and some of the I didn't I don't even
know what some of the other groups were.
But How many groups were there? I
[snorts and clears throat] I don't know.
There were only 22 people there total
including myself.
So um
I I would like for you to tell Joe one
of the things that also interested me
cuz I built the craft is how the
waveguide worked with the ceiling in in
interior and how it blended
if you can explain there was no
telescopic
>> well this is why I we wanted to talk to
the metallurgist people. The uh
the reactor that sits on the bottom of
the craft has a little dome over it
and there's something that looks like a
pipe
that's slight you can lift it up and
take the reactor out put the reactor in
and lift it down but you know like a
antenna works on an old walkie-talkie it
has different sections
There it is there's from the video.
There it is yeah yeah okay
um
you can retract the pipe but there's no
sections and it doesn't get any thicker.
It just becomes smaller and if you look
underneath
um where the emitters hang down
um
they turn
it
and it it it doesn't buckle it's it's a
magical material this is
this is the basis of the craft is really
the material that it's made of it's a
it's amazing the way it works.
It just you can push it into a small
volume
and it doesn't change at all it doesn't
it doesn't get bigger physically
it's um
I don't really know how to describe
>> lifting the pipe up and down but it's
not going anywhere.
>> you had a big pipe
and you push it together it has to get
thicker Right. because the material has
to go somewhere this doesn't.
Okay it stays in exactly the same
dimensions it just becomes smaller.
How? Well
>> couldn't talk to the metallurgist so you
had no idea.
>> yeah but those guys knew how. They did
know how. I well Well they know it did
it. They know it they know it did it and
that's their job so I imagine they have
more information than I did.
Um
but that was fascinating.
It really was. And the uh
the waveguides that hold the emitters
they come down and the emitters can turn
and bend and the pipes bend and nothing
changes in them.
It's
and there's no wires or anything to make
the pipe bend
um
I'm I'm trying to relate it to something
but I can't think of anything to relate
it to.
Well one thing that you said that I I
also thought was fascinating there's no
seams so everything looks like it's 3D
printed.
>> Again right it comes down to the
material. Which at the time 3D printers
weren't real, right? They Yeah, at the
time that really confused me. I said,
"How did they build this?" It must have
been built
out of wax or something and then melted.
Um cuz you can't build anything without
seams. And then 3D printing came into
existence and you know, you can you
could build stuff from layers up. Um
That made sense.
I know, some sort of 3D printer or they
grew it uh
you know, a in some
It of course is not a crystal in
fashion, but um
I I don't know how that was fabricated,
but it was fabricated different than
anything that we have. I don't even
think it was 3D printed.
And so you never got any inkling or any
understanding of what the metal was,
what what what kind of an alloy, what it
consisted of?
All I can say it was cold to the touch
cuz the you know, when I when I touched
it, but um
I can't say it was a if it was a ceramic
or I say it was metal cuz it was cold.
Um Cuz it looks like metal. And this is
>> Yeah, it looks like metal. Does that
this is the Designs by Perry um
version of it. Does that How much does
that look like it? No, that's 100%.
That's it.
Yeah, that's that's
>> to have the the first ripple is supposed
to be black.
>> right. See? Yeah.
So, Luigi has gone over this so many
times. Yeah.
>> uh
the There's an insulator ring in there.
Jimmy, show what it looks like in the
film. If you could show one of the
images. I don't know.
I was pulling them off the trailer and I
don't
They might not They've been holding that
back
Yeah, on the trailer there's some shots.
>> Yeah, there's there's a ring around it
and we measured the voltage on the craft
and there was a a high voltage on it. Um
And above that ring, there is not
>> not a good shot. There's probably a
This is the original trailer. It's the
new trailer that would actually [snorts]
Yeah, that one there.
And you'll get to see it right
there.
Actually, right after this.
Well, it's actually before this, I
believe.
You're going to see the craft. And if
you see there's a black Right, there's
like a black line. Mhm. It's the first
ripple that's actually not metal.
Yeah, we call that the Yeah, there it
is. That's a good shot. We call We call
that the insulator ring because below
that there's a high voltage present on
the craft all the time and above that,
there isn't.
Um
I would imagine that
your life has like two completely
different chapters. It's before this and
after this.
Whereas like once you see it,
the whole rest of your life is now going
to be very different. And you are you
are in in its presence for how long did
you work there for?
I don't know, maybe 6 months or so. So,
for 6 months,
you're around this thing.
And I would imagine that's to occupy
your thoughts 24 hours a day.
Well, at the time it did, for sure. It's
actually three stages to the life. It's
before it, during, and after it.
Before it was just my life, during was
when it happened, and then the after
part of my life is almost trying to
dismiss it, you know, to just go on.
Yeah, you didn't talk about it for a
long time. I mean, you did the George
Knapp interviews, you talked about it a
little, you made some videos explaining
things and how things worked.
>> No, I don't I don't really like public
attention and uh I don't really like
doing interviews.
Um
As [snorts] you probably know.
>> [laughter]
>> You know, but um
I know there's people that thrive on
that stuff, but you know, uh
it
I felt privileged to be part of the
project, but it left me with an
insatiable appetite. Oh my god, I want
to know where it's gone. Like even when
I was there in the '80s, they were
talking about moving the project at that
time.
So,
um
I really I I'm dying to know, is it
still there? Has it moved on Did they
split it up and move it to other places?
Um
Yeah, I remember Barry talking about
moving it to
the South Pacific like in Kwajalein or
something, but they said the expenses
were so great, they couldn't do that,
but they wanted to be from everybody.
And the they hated the fact that it was
right alongside the highway in Nevada,
you know, by south of Area 51.
Uh but that's the best place they had at
the time and the most affordable.
And of course now with you know, budgets
being so tight,
who knows where it is. Who knows if
budgets are tight for this, though.
Yeah, that that's true. That's true. I
mean, they did say at whatever expense,
figure this out. Yeah, they were serious
about that. We don't really care what it
was.
>> It's like the original Apollo program.
You know, back in the Apollo program, if
they needed parts
and if somebody had something ordered
UPS or through the mail or whatever,
they had the authority to stop that
shipment to that other person and take
their stuff if they needed it. And you
know, they had an unlimited budget. I
mean, if you're working like that, you
could do anything.
And uh Or at least anything that's
currently possible with today's
technology. There you go. Which therein
lies the problem is that they're dealing
with something that's not possible with
like you couldn't build it from scratch
with American technology in 1989.
No, but that's what they wanted to do.
And really thinking about that now, I'm
not sure
I'm not [laughter] exactly sure these
guys should be allowed to do that. This
is really powerful technology and the
world has really changed. I mean, we
have a lot of crazy people doing stuff
now and nonsense
transmits through the population at the
speed of light.
And uh
you know, I don't know. This can be a
very powerful world-conquering
technology
and
Look, for 40 years, I think I've said
this before, for 40 years, all the
people in control of this information
have all agreed to keep it quiet. And
these aren't idiots.
These aren't idiots for 40 years. You
have a line of people that all have
agreed, "No, let's not say anything. No,
let's not say anything. No, let's not
say anything." There has to be a reason
why.
And if they all agreed to that,
maybe I'm the
>> [laughter]
>> No, really. Maybe they're right and
Maybe you would have figured that out if
you kept working for them. Yeah, I don't
know, but I'm increasingly thinking
I'm the one that made the mistake. Maybe
this is supposed to be
just kept quiet.
Yeah, but that doesn't ring true.
Cuz cuz I don't think it's ever healthy
if small groups of individuals have
information that would change our
understanding of where we are.
>> Yeah, there's that. There's that.
>> It's I don't think they
I don't think they deserve it. I don't
think it's right. I don't think it makes
any sense. I think you have an
obligation to
>> But really think about it. What if it's
something that's really dramatic?
Like how so? Like what do you think
would be like?
I don't know. May maybe I mean, what if
it's I'm not saying this is what it is,
but I mean, what if it's like
you know, like like we raise cows out in
a field and just feed them grass and
they're just going to be food.
What if it's something like that? What
if we're just like, you know, a a
population of creatures that are just to
be consumed in some way?
I don't know if we're to be consumed,
but I do think we are
>> Not physically consumed like eaten, but
I mean
>> I think we have a task.
And
I'm uh more and more convinced as time
goes on that we were engineered.
I don't think we came about as a normal
evolutionary process like all the other
animals.
>> I agree with that. I I really agree with
that, too. There's a lot of people that
think that. It just doesn't make sense
objectively. I mean, without seeming
like a cook
or someone who buys into conspiracy
theories, if you just look at all the
other biology on Earth, why is one so
uniquely able to manipulate its
environment, communicate instantaneously
at distance, do
can't really even exist in its
environment in most places that it lives
without clothes and shelter. We're a
weird animal.
We're we're very strange. Like we don't
seem to have normally adapted to our
environment with the way we've
completely controlled our environment
with air conditioning and electricity
and electronics and flight and travel.
We're so beyond everything else that
evolved. Whereas every other animal,
predator or prey, plant eater or meat
eater, all seems to cohesively exist
inside of its ecosystem. And then you
have us, which is like Yeah, yeah.
almost like an invasive species. Like
invasive species destroy ecosystems like
because they don't belong there. Mhm.
Well, that's kind of what we do. Like we
suck all the fish out of the ocean, we
pollute the rivers with our technology,
we, you know, mess up underground water
systems with fracking and drill we we're
like an invasive species in a lot of
ways. Yeah.
Yeah. We're really weird.
>> can't argue with that at all.
Yeah, this Tim Burchett thing. Um so Tim
Burchett has recently been talking about
this and the he can't talk about it
because it's classified, but he said
you'd be up at night with the things
that I've seen
if the things that I've seen have
released.
Yeah.
He said we just needed to close disclose
it all. I'm sick of it.
Uh I well I was briefed and I will tell
you this. I was briefed last week on an
issue or excuse me 2 weeks ago and it
would have set the earth on this country
would have become unglued. I think if
they would have heard all that I heard.
Well, this is what I was talking about.
If you know,
it's not like there's a bunch of space
brothers coming down going, "Oh, look
what we discovered, you know, here I
have some information and you know, uh
what if it's not that? What if all the
information is bad?"
But what would be bad? Like have you
ever thought about this? Tried to like
play it out to its natural conclusion?
Like what do you think the scenarios
could be that's bad? I don't know.
Everything that we're
we uh
Look, we view ourselves at the top of
the food chain.
What if we're not anywhere near there? I
don't think we are. Okay, what if we're
just consumables?
Well, I don't know if like chimpanzees
are consumables, right? They're not at
the top of the food chain either, right?
But No, but there's
I I would consider them substantially
lower than we are. Like my
my good friend that I John Lear who had
a bunch of crazy thoughts. I mean he
used to come over and tell us that uh
you know, on the moon there was a soul
sucker.
And when you
>> [laughter]
>> He did. He said this. You better give me
that bottle.
I want to drink before you explain this
one.
Um
>> Oh boy.
A soul sucker. Yeah.
>> John Lear was a eccentric individual.
I'm kind of sad I never met him.
Man, he he would
>> supporting evidence? He was a What?
Terence McKenna talking about the moon
being a soul catcher. Yeah, yeah. No,
and he'd give me pictures of these giant
antennas on the moon and
>> [clears throat]
>> um in fact, I'll tell you a story. He um
uh you know, he was an accomplished
pilot, had many world records and and
things of that, you know, um
part of the Lear family
that
his father invented autopilot, the
eight-track tape, all kinds of stuff.
And uh
but he John Lear was a loose cannon.
At the time
uh
he'd fly from Las Vegas and uh
you know, shuttle L-1011s which are
giant planes back and forth and he'd say
uh
you know, be kind of lonely. He goes,
"Hey, you want to go to Minneapolis
tonight?" He'd call me like at 9:00 at
night and say, "Well, no, not really.
Come on. Come on, fly with me." He'd
say, "Just put on a suit and you know,
come to so-and-so." And I'd go to
McCarran Airport and you know, go there.
And uh yeah, I'm going to tell everybody
you're
you know, an inspector from the FAA and
I'm like, "Okay,
great." You know, and I'd
get on the plane and he'd say, you know,
"Just act like you're you're going to
kick everyone's ass." So I'd
>> [laughter]
>> go on there and I'd sit in the they pull
down a jump seat behind the plane and
I'd just sit there looking at everybody
and
God, all this stuff is so illegal. And
um
you know, get on there and and fly and
you know, John would take and the
L-1011 was a
pretty advanced plane at the time. This
was in the '80s.
And you know, John would be smoking his
pipe, he'd take off, he'd put his feet
up and smoke his pipe and he'd fall
asleep. And I'd just be, you know,
hanging out there and you know, before
the plane would land, he'd just, you
know, wake up and you know, be smoking
his pipe and the you know, plane would
land itself. At the time my wife was
taking flying lessons and um
he said, "Yeah, yeah, you know, bring
her up here and um
I think they had an engineer also on
another panel. I don't I don't quite
remember, but I was there with my wife,
there were people on board and he he'd
say "Hey, come on here and take the
wheel." And he'd get the captain of the
plane with
you know, I think my wife was in her 20s
at the time and just sit her down and
say, "Yeah, hold on to it and you know,
just keep correcting." And he'd just let
her fly the plane which is insane. And
you know, the co-pilot would just look
over and I remember looking over at I
think the engineer that looked at the
gauges and he just put his head down
>> [laughter]
>> and pretended like nothing was
happening. And um
that was just one time. Another time he
was fly uh
ferrying an L-1011
going by Roswell. At the time I was
living in New Mexico
and they called him and told him he
wasn't getting paid.
That the company was, you know,
defaulted or something like that.
And
he was coming up to New Mexico and
landed at the Roswell just took the
plane and landed at the Roswell Airport
this the whole 1011 got off walked out
walked up to a bus station, gave me a
call on the the payphone and said, "Hey
Bob, I'm coming over."
Okay, you know, you're in New Mexico.
Yeah. And he drove up
taxi would drop him off at the house,
he'd walk he [laughter] he walked in he
went, "Boy, I'm tired." And he just laid
down on the couch, you know, and go to
sleep and I said,
"What are you doing here? What's going
on?" "Oh, I just dropped the plane off.
They're not paying me and you know, that
that's it." But I mean John Lear was
such like a loose cannon.
Um
he was he was a great friend to have,
but uh he had no filter.
If he had a retired general come up and
give him all kinds of information
or if he had a psychic come up from, you
know, the neighborhood and give him all
kinds of information, he'd put him in
the same category. Um
>> You know, and uh so
he really did have useful information
that was difficult to get, but it was
mixed up with nonsense. Right. And you
and sometimes he would just really lean
into that nonsense. Like he was
convinced that the sun wasn't hot and
there were people living inside and I
used to die laughing. I'm like, "You are
[laughter]
insane."
I said, "You you can't prove it's hot."
"Yes, I can." You know, just go outside
>> [laughter]
>> you know, on a hot day, you know, and
and you know, and John said, "That's not
the sun. That's just the the sun's
atmosphere that's on fire." And I said,
"You're just crazy." But we got along
and he knew that I I thought he was
crazy, but the thing is a lot of people
did come to him
and give him good information.
Um
Anyway, I don't remember where I was
going with this.
>> the thing about some people. Some people
will tell you nonsense and then they'll
tell you true things. And it's difficult
to accept that true things also come
from people that say nonsense. Like just
because they've said something that's
nonsense doesn't mean necessarily that
this thing they're saying is not true.
This other thing. And you've got to be
able to discern.
You've got like I talk to a lot of
people that say a lot of kooky things
that don't make any sense, but then
they'll say something that rings true.
And it's it's difficult because you have
to have some sort of an understanding of
the human psyche and of those kind of
people because there are kind of people
that have very loose nets.
You're counting on their filter working
like yours.
>> it doesn't.
>> And it No, it doesn't. Some people
>> stuff gets in there and you go, "Hold
on. What did you just say?
Tell me that again. How does that one
work?" Yeah, you can't really discount
people because somebody comes up with
some absolute nonsense. It just means
their filter is defective.
But Which is also the reason why they're
willing to entertain things that are
outside of the normal spectrum. Right.
So like they might have actual real
useful information but it's wrapped up
in there with Bigfoot.
Exactly. Yeah, exactly. But so the soul
catcher thing. Oh, that yeah, that's
where I was going. The soul catcher. So
um
I remember him sitting and I think he
was telling my wife Joy this story
because I walked in on it. He said,
"Yeah, there are these giant antennas
and when you die
>> [laughter]
>> your soul goes up and I think he said
the grays, you know, this alien race set
up this soul catcher and that's what
this whole thing is about. And as you
die
it sucks your soul in and they use it in
some way. And um it's not where your
soul is supposed to go. They just like
set some sort of intercept.
>> say where your soul was supposed to go?
No. No.
>> No, he was just more really into the
soul catcher.
>> Well, that was one of the weirder things
about some of the documents that you had
at least been alerted to when you're on
the base. And one of them being that
humans are containers. Yeah. All right.
Yeah.
Yeah, and
>> Which the likely conclusion is
containers of souls. If a soul is a real
thing, whatever that That's what you
would think. Right. I mean, that's what
I thought. Yeah. I mean, It's just a
guess.
>> prefer to believe that that's that's not
true. Mhm. Um
but maybe it is. I just they I don't
know. As Barry said, you know, they mix
absolute nonsense in there.
So, if they get if you
and it's unique to each person. So, if
you give out any information and they
go, "Oh, we heard some stuff about soul
catchers. Oh, we know that came from
Lazar." You know, so, um
that's just a way where they can direct
where it where it came to.
But Then the problem is like decades and
decades, generations and generations of
people working there. How many people
know what the real truth is? And how
many people know
>> know. I mean, there must be a Yeah,
there must be a group of people that
really have the pure information of
what's going on. I would assume, but not
necessarily.
I would think over There has to be there
has to be a group of people that know
what's going on. And um Who are those
people? Mhm. You know, and to me, like I
I was telling Luigi, I have a bunch of
questions for me.
You know? Right.
>> Um Like what would be your questions for
you if you met you? Yeah. Now, questions
for me are people that ask me over
decades the same same questions. You
know, why is it the Navy? The Navy paid
me. I always said the Navy everything
has been the Navy instead of the Air
Force because, you know, back in the
'60s and '70s, you know, there's Project
Blue Book in the Air Force and all that,
but um
everything associated with this was the
Navy.
So,
and in these days, you hear some of
these
new types of crafts that are
transmedium. Yeah, you you hear the word
transmedium and in it David Fravor,
Commander David Fravor, you know, with
the Tic Tac and you know, things are
under the water.
And you know, supposedly the the craft
that
the sport model was an archaeological
recovery, and that itself was
underwater. So, what is
what is the deal with the water?
I mean, it's it's
it's by far the biggest medium of the
planet.
I mean, if you want to hide
people down there, almost an entire
civilization down there, you could do it
in the ocean as long as you do it deep
enough and away from people.
So, yeah, number one is what's the deal
with the ocean? That's probably the the
number one question. Because there's a
ton of sightings
where people see things come out of the
water
and go into the water.
>> Yeah, there has to be a reason for that.
Well, it just in terms of if they have
the ability to travel through space, if
they if whatever that thing is really
does create some sort of a gravity
bubble or some sort of a space-time
bubble. Yeah, but maybe it's not space.
Maybe it's not space. Maybe maybe it's
time. Maybe it's another dimension.
There's
there's really no limit. If you can
start manipulating
physics in that way,
um
you can bend time, you can
open doorways into other dimensions. So,
maybe it has nothing to do with going I
Look, we all want it to be like Star
Trek. Right.
>> You know, because Star Trek is really
understandable. Right.
>> You go out there, you fly to another
planet. You meet the people there, you
go to another one. Well, these guys are
happy, those guys aren't, you know, and
it all makes perfect sense.
I don't really think it's like that.
Look,
you know, if you look in history,
especially, you know, in United States
history,
anytime a superior
race or intelligence meets with an
inferior one, it's never good for the
inferior guys. Never.
We never come over and go, "Oh, we just
want to teach you guys everything that
we know." Right. No, no. It's like,
"We're going to rape all your women,
take all your stuff, and then just kill
you." Use your resources.
>> Yeah, right. And just consume everything
you want. That's just always the way it
goes. Now, maybe that's just what humans
do, but I would be concerned that's what
all life does. Well,
we are territorial primates. Mhm. And
that makes sense that that's what we do.
The thing that always fascinates me
about particularly the grays, they seem
to be genderless,
and they seem to have no muscle at all.
They and they seem to have enormous
heads, and the
stories at least, the anecdotal accounts
of people having communication with
these creatures is that they communicate
in some way telepathically.
Yeah. If you transcend all of our weird
biological needs, like all the things
that are attached to being a human
being, ego, lust, greed, desire to
conquer, desire to control resources,
all those things are territorial primate
instincts.
And one of the conversations I had
yesterday with my friend Theo, we were
talking about like what's happening to
people's bodies,
is that people are slowly
we're consuming microplastics and
phthalates and all these things that are
reducing our reproductive system, our
testosterone's dropping. Right, right.
All this stuff like leads you to say,
"Well, where does this go ultimately?"
Like what what how many more people are
autistic now than were before? It's one
out of 12 boys in California now. Used
to be one out of 10,000 just a few
decades ago. Like we're moving into this
very weird direction without us
recognizing it.
>> me stop you there. It's one out of how
many? One out of 12 boys in California
are diagnosed autistic now.
But do you think that might be the way
they're diagnosed? No.
No, I think it's exposure. I think it's
exposed to chemicals, vaccines,
environmental toxins. You think that do,
yeah? I think that. It's not just me.
There's tons of studies and and a lot of
buried studies, too.
>> Okay. I mean, if that's accurate, that's
frightening. Yeah. Well, it is it's it
can't be just diagnosed because I mean,
I know so many people that have
nonverbal autistic kids, where I didn't
know anybody that had nonverbal autistic
kids when I was younger. Well,
you know, I mean, back in the '60s and
'70s, there was no there were no kids
with ADHD.
>> Mhm.
Kids that were like that were just
Mhm. You know? I think that's
still the the case. I don't think ADHD
is a real diagnosis. I think it's a real
excuse to give people medication. I
think ADHD is essentially a superpower.
What ADHD is allows you to concentrate
on things that you really enjoy, but you
cannot concentrate on things you don't
enjoy. Okay. I think I have it.
You know, and I think I'm very fortunate
that I'm not diagnosed and medicated or
wasn't or was born in the right time
when they weren't doing that as much.
>> No, I actually I'll stop you there and
say I I agree that that's a superpower,
too. Because it's a very unusual. I can
Yeah, yeah. If I find a thing that I
like, I can lock in and concentrate on
it for 12, 14 hours with no sleep, no
food. All I need is like water or
coffee, and and I'm locked in. All
right. I locked in for 4 and 1/2 years.
>> [laughter]
>> Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know. I don't I
don't think I think what ADHD is you're
taking kids, you're putting them in a
completely unnatural environment, you're
making them sit down. They don't want to
sit down. They're very active and
energetic. You're making them study
things by very unenthusiastic teachers.
They don't want to pay attention.
They're off in class because
they're completely bored. And then
you're saying that kid's got a problem.
We have to diagnose them. And then what
do you give them? You give them
Adderall. And all of a sudden the kid's
locked in cuz they're on speed.
>> Yeah. And I just think
>> if you focus in and let them do what
they're interested in.
>> kid a video game. Watch him play it for
10 hours with no food. Cuz
that's what happens. Cuz that's
something they're actually engaged with.
It's not that they can't be focused on
anything. They just don't focus on
things they enjoy. And we want to turn
people into nice little factory workers.
>> Right. And the only way to do that is
you got to get a kid to comply. You got
to get a kid to pay attention and follow
the rules.
>> the same channel. It's really great. I
don't believe that ADHD is a real thing.
I just think there's some people that
are wired differently, and they should
pursue different things in life. Right.
The difference between that and autism
is very different. And autism is
especially when it happens like almost
directly after multiple vaccinations.
There's a lot of them they point to,
particularly the MMR vaccine. There's a
there's there's quite a few. When you
look at the schedule of vaccines and how
it ramped up and it completely
correlates with the ramping up of the
diagnoses of autism.
But but without casting aspersions or
getting into some anti-vaccine
conversation, Wait, you just did. I
know, I did. But what I'm saying is but
ultimately the human race is moving into
a very weird place. So, I had a
conversation with um
Shanna Swan, Dr. Shanna Swan, who
is uh she studies environmental
endocrine disruptors. So, various
toxins, phthalates, microplastics, and
plasticizers that are completely
disruptive to people's endocrine system,
reproductive system. And from the
introduction of these petrochemical
products in the 1950s and '60s, you see
a direct correlation between the dip in
testosterone rates in amongst men, the
uh increase of miscarriages and
infertility, and then on top of that,
the actual shrinking of their taint. So,
one of the ways they find out the
difference between mammals um some
mammals in particular, when you see a a
a a child a baby mammal, the difference
between a male and a female is easily
recognized by the size of the gap
between their anal their anal hole and
where their genitals are.
>> But, that could just be correlation.
You know, it's like No, no, no. No, no,
no. No, I'll explain why it's not.
Because when they've done studies where
they've used phthalates, particularly
phthalates, and they've introduced them
specifically purposely into certain
mammals and rodents, their taint
shrinks. Hm. And their taint shrinks and
their penises their penis size shrinks.
And there's studies on rivers, they have
smaller penises. And she she talked
about all this. And all this these are
endocrine disruptors
that are in the environment that are
doing something that reduces fertility.
And it changes the way the human biology
functions. And it makes men more
feminine and it makes women less
fertile. Okay. Well, ultimately we look
at the Grays, what do they look like?
Yeah. They look like they have no
genitals. They look like they have they
have no sex. They have like That might
be where biology has to go to transcend
away from our territorial primate
biology.
Our territorial primate biology that is
insistent on war and violence and Right.
And we think this is the place to stay.
Exactly.
>> And it may not be.
>> It may not be. It it it may be
completely non-beneficial to all life.
>> Right. Right.
>> That we have to transcend that. And
well, we are transcending it whether we
like it or not. And what I was saying is
that I don't know if it's a bug. I think
it might be a feature of evolution. That
our insistence on using plastics and
technology and all of these different
environmental
toxins that we use to produce energy and
all the goods and services that we need
also are disrupting our endocrine system
and changing us from being these hulking
hair-covered cave men to being these
very small, slight autistic men that can
code 24 hours a day without
sleep. Right.
It seems like if you extrapolate and you
naturally take that further, well, what
do you get? You get really skinny things
with no muscles and giant heads. My my
take also and I and I do agree with that
is what I find out what I find sometimes
really
uh concerning is how fast that's moving.
So, it's not just a question of like is
this actually
it it this is probably a thing, but it's
moving so incredibly fast. If I look at
my father's generation or my
grandfather's generation and my
generation,
I mean, it's it's similar, but now it's
moving so fast. I I I do agree with
you're saying and I'm thinking if it's
moving so fast,
there could be a not a natural component
to it, but there's an intentional
component.
>> Right. If you wanted to do something to
a race to change it. Like think about
what we did with wolves.
Right. All dogs are wolves. Yeah. Right.
I have two dogs that are the furthest
thing from wolves you could
possibly imagine.
>> Is that Marshmallow? Marshall. Yeah,
>> [laughter]
>> you can call him he might be a
Marshmallow. He might as well be a
Marshmallow. Marshall who's a Golden
Retriever is the sweetest dog of all
time. Then I have another dog named
Charlie who's a King Charles Cavalier
Spaniel who's even further from a wolf
than Marshall. He's just a cute little
fuzzy little sweetheart. They have no
killer instincts whatsoever.
That used to be a wolf. Right, well,
what happened? We softened them to the
point where they're something compatible
with our modern life with households and
families and babies and you can we made
them safe. And that's happening to
people.
It's happening to people whether we like
it or not. We could attribute it to all
these different factors. Oh, it's a
problem. We have to remove these things
from the environment. This is what's
going on. Maybe or maybe you just look
at the overall picture, there seems to
be an insatiable desire for innovation
and technology that human beings have.
If you looked at us from afar, if you
weren't part of the human race and
you're just studying us, you're like,
what does this species do? Well, makes
better things. Makes better things all
the time.
Constantly. You know, I look I have a
iPhone 16 here. It's not as good as the
iPhone 17. iPhone 17's better. Why don't
you get an iPhone 17? You know, it just
like keeps going. It never stops. It
never ends. The TVs get bigger. They get
stronger. Your cars get faster. Your
computer does more cores. Does
processing, video editing so much
quicker. Everything moves faster and
better. We keep making better things. We
never stop and say, you know what?
Society right now, we have a lot of
problems. The problems that we don't
have are technology. Our technology
seems completely suitable to this world
that we're living in right now. Let's
just
new things and concentrate on cleaning
the rivers and concentrate on stopping
crime and concentrate on educating
people. Concentrate on counseling for
troubled young people. No. No, we just
plow forward ahead with the one thing
that we absolutely guarantee to do. We
make better things. We make better
weapons, better cars, faster planes.
Everything we do, we make things better.
And I'll and I'll sorry, I have to add
we do that and we also do it in a way
where it's economically beneficial to
the ones that are making it because we
make things break now.
Think about it. We make better things,
but we make them so that you have to buy
the better thing after. Right.
Engineered obsolescence. Yeah. That's
also important.
>> Yeah, it is because then it also human
beings have this very bizarre desire for
materialism. Like what why would a thing
with a finite lifespan want to
accumulate objects? Like I know people
that are in their 80s that collect
things. Like what are you doing
with that stuff? You're going to die.
You have maybe like 10 summers left on
on Earth. And here you are collecting
stamps or cars or
>> yeah. No, no. I've gotten to that. It's
weird. Yeah, I mean, at some point you
>> [cough and clears throat]
>> you have to bypass the accumulating
stuff Right.
>> part of life. But, materialism ensures a
constant fueling of innovation.
Because this is one of the things that
gets people excited about collecting new
stuff is that you're going to make a
better version.
Like I don't care how good your Mercedes
is. It's not a 2026 Mercedes. Right.
Yeah, exactly. It has new features. It
has a new thing. And so, it's like all
built into the human psychology and also
to this thing that I said like I said,
if you were somewhere from somewhere
else and studying this species, what
does it do? It it makes better things.
What do sharks do? They eat things. They
just swim around. They can't even stop
swimming. They eat things. What do
people do? They they really just make
better things. They go to war. Why do
they go to war really? They go to war so
they can control resources so they have
more money so they can make more things
and better things. And also the amount
of innovation that is in warfare, in war
weapons, in war fighting. Yeah, that
yeah, that's actually critical to keep
the system going. Yeah. Well, ultimately
all that does it all of it releases more
endocrine disruptors, more contact with
all these different chemicals and
toxins, feminizes men, ruins women's
reproductive systems to the point where
ultimately we say, oh, for the survival
of the race, we're going to have to
figure out how to reproduce
non-biologically.
>> Hm.
When I first got involved in
yeah, it's
It's something to ponder, right? It's
something to ponder because we're so
wrapped up in who we are. We're so
wrapped up and look, I love being a
person. I love living in Texas. I love
driving an American car. I love all
those things. But, what does that mean?
Like what is that what is that? You
know, these are just weird identity
points that you connect with whatever
this species is. Well, but if you just
could just have a
above view,
and you look down and go, what are we
doing?
Yeah, that's a that's a good question.
That's a good question.
Yeah, like how far are we going and how
fast are we going there? We're going
pretty fast. And now with AI, I
think we're going way faster than we
even understand.
Because with Claude, I mean, they they
think that the Claude AI the the
engineers, they we think it's sentient
already. It just doesn't have a physical
body to move around.
>> is going to kill us. Everybody agrees
with that. [laughter]
There's no question.
>> think it's going to kill us. You know
what I think it's going to do? I think
it's going to prevent us from breeding.
I think it's going to let us die off.
No, it's not going to kill us, Joe.
>> we're going to willingly go with it
because we're going to get like mates
like Ex Machina. We're going to just
something to take care of us.
>> they come out
with a female robot
>> Uh-huh. Yeah. That's sexually attractive
or whatever. Yeah, game over.
>> over. There's there's just going to be
no more babies and we're just going to
die out.
>> Yeah. So,
>> Or integrate. And I think it's much more
likely that we integrate. And that's
where you get the Grays. I think that
what the Grays are is a combination of
technology and biology. And if you just
if you just go from
>> chimp
to caveman
to gray, you go, oh, I see where going.
Chimp, chimp, caveman, human. Modern
human,
gelatinous, soft, slow-moving,
weak modern human, grays. Like I have I
have always
leaned into what Barry told me cuz it's
the only information I had that
the craft came from Zeta Reticuli, which
is a star system I
30 some odd light-years away. And um,
you know, again, it was just like a Star
Trek thing. They came over here
for whatever reason.
But that information may not be true.
Right, that might information
information might be one of those things
they put out that's nonsense.
>> if it's if it has to do with time, I
think uh
from what George has told me, Jacques
Vallée and some, you know, other really
credible researchers have have said that
uh
these are people either from another
dimension or another time or maybe
they're us from the future. Right. You
know, just coming back to
interact with us in some way.
Um
>> Make sure we don't everything up
irreparably. Yeah, but it it doesn't
seem like they're doing a good job.
Well, maybe things up somewhat
is also part of the plan.
Maybe that actually has to take place
and disrupt.
>> Look at the Look at the way things are
going right now.
>> Right.
>> Holy cow.
>> Exactly. Things are off
totally off the rails.
>> Mhm.
But maybe that's part of the plan. Maybe
part of it is like it has to get so far
sideways that we realize how up
everything is that we start making
meaningful changes and implement AI as
government.
That's a dangerous thing.
>> Exactly, but is it as dangerous as Iran
getting nukes? I don't know. Is it as
dangerous as
a global Islamic caliphate? No, it's not
Iran. Iran's not getting nukes. I mean
>> Okay, but what if
>> They have Iran they
Never mind.
>> [laughter]
>> I don't want to get into political
stuff. No, but you could. You could.
Like if you gave Iran the technology to
get nukes, they would take it.
>> has any any physicist has the technology
to get nukes. Right. I mean, the
difficulty is actually making the
material. So, I mean, if I was Iran, I
would enrich to 80 or 90% because that's
where you can make a weapon
and and stop there.
>> Right, it's not like they would be the
only people with the weapon. Pakistan,
India, North Korea.
>> doesn't make you have a weapon. It just
gives you a shortcut to it.
And making a weapon from there and being
able to deliver a weapon,
you know, to 4,000 mi away, good luck
with that. That's a
big deal. So, um Right, but they're in
communication with China who has that.
They're in communication with China.
>> to they don't need to enrich uranium or
do anything. They just get Can you give
me a a missile? Um Right, but wouldn't
they rather make their own? No. But
that's but it's not even the point.
>> Rather make their own. Why Why would you
do that? Would you rather make your own
car or just somebody give it to you?
No, you Why Why would Why would you do
that? You got a buddy that'll just give
you one. Cuz you'd want to be
self-sufficient. You'd want to have your
own production where you don't have to
rely on someone. No, you can always do
that. You can always do that. I don't I
don't think they're ever they were ever
going They're going to absolutely make a
weapon now
Right. because we're, you know, kicking
their ass. I
As everyone has learned, I guess you
have to have nuclear weapons now to, you
know, but
the it this is a really bad situation.
Oh, it's a horrible situation. But my
point is
why is this situation taking place? The
situation taking place is because human
beings suck.
Right? We suck in how we interact with
each other. It's we suck we suck because
we're territorial primates with weapons
of mass destruction.
>> just all get along? Well, what is the
way to stop that from ever happening?
Well, one, you will let a catastrophe
unfold and then you offer a solution to
make sure these catastrophes never
unfold again.
Well, what's the best solution? Well, we
have something far smarter than people
that will take over control of resources
and government.
AI. AI. Yeah. This is This is Colossus.
You ever seen the movie Colossus?
>> I got to watch it.
>> Well that That's a merit against you.
>> [laughter]
>> The movie Colossus was a 1960s or 70s
movie and
it it's about um
you know, the scientist makes
deep inside this mountain a computer to
take over the defense of the United
States.
And
you know, they
build this gigantic computer inside
Cheyenne Mountain or something similar
to it and you know, they flip the switch
and they went, "Okay, we're we're
protected. We're we're in good shape."
And um
shortly after time goes on, you know,
they realize, "Wow, the computer is
really performing better than we
expected." And as it turns out,
Russia had done the same thing.
And the computers want to communicate
together.
And um
you know, they start communicating and
the United States goes, "Well, they
might be giving our our secrets away, so
we better
you know, cut the communication line."
And the computers freak out and they go,
"Well, I guess we'll just launch nuclear
bombs, you know, at everybody." And they
launches weapons and, you know,
essentially holds everybody hostage, but
um
it's kind of like a trap. It's kind of
like a trap. If we go that way, it it
could trap us.
>> a trap.
>> Well, you know, in simulated war games,
AIs use nuclear weapons
>> 98% of the time. Yeah. I [laughter]
mean, yeah, because
why wouldn't they? Because I mean, look,
the goal is to win. Right. And we're
going to present you with the scenario
and they go, "Okay, nuke 'em."
And you know, and why wouldn't you pick
that? We You going to start with
slapping them in the face?
>> Well, why is it better to just bomb them
over and over and over again until you
achieve the same amount of damage?
>> in the face. Nuke 'em, it's over with.
We can move on from there.
>> Right. So Yeah, that's
>> Well, you think about what happened in
Gaza. Like you look at the leveling of
all those buildings, the mass
destruction. It's terrible. It looks
like a nuke. Yeah. It looks like one
nuke instead of thousands of missiles
and bombs. It's one nuke.
>> but it's not.
>> Right. In terms of the amount of damage
it could do instantaneously.
>> Because I mean, because we can detect a
nuke. Was there ever any conversation
that you were privy to where they
discussed, because one of the things
that does come up over and over again in
UFO discussions is these crafts that
show up at these military bases and shut
down all the weapon systems?
>> No, I I actually know nothing about
that. Um
Most of the UFO stuff or UFO lore that
I've heard, I I don't know anything
about. I I've just looked at it That's
so fascinating cuz you're the most
prominent figure in all of UFO lore.
>> telling him yesterday. Yeah, but
[laughter] I I
I I really I really only like like to
talk about what I know about.
>> Right, And I've heard I mean, I've heard
other stories, but I've never heard them
officially. I don't know if they're
really
real. Um Well, it's one of the things
that makes you most credible.
Cuz you're not a UFO guy.
>> but I mean No, yes, it does with me.
Because when people are like way too
into it, they want to believe too much.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. But no, I I I don't
know anything.
>> you know who these people are?
Yeah, yeah, Betty and Barney Hill.
>> Okay. Well, so you know a little Yeah,
they they were the first abductees. I
mean, to me, they're
I don't I don't know who first
introduced those to me and I looked them
up.
And
you know, I people say, "Do you believe
them?" And I'm kind of inclined to
believe them because look, in the 1960s,
right, where they're from, the last
thing you want to do is be recognized
as a mixed-race couple.
Right? I mean Right, and go public with
your Yeah, I mean, holy cow. They would
hate you. Yeah. A black person and a
white person that were, you know, in any
kind of relationship, but um
And they have this crazy story. Yeah.
And you hear their abduction story.
>> on top of that, I have a connection to
that because Barry said they're from the
Zeta Reticuli star system and I believe
it's Betty Betty Hill drew a map of the
Zeta Reticuli star system and said this
is part of their roots.
Whoa.
Did you know that? You didn't know that?
No, I don't remember that. I don't
remember I mean, I remember it from what
you said from your story.
>> you look up in Betty and Barney Hill,
she said
um I think
I don't know. I mean, I can never get
this stuff right. They show her a map
and they say, "Well, this is a map." She
wanted to know why they were here,
what's going on. They showed her a map,
am I right?
>> her a map. And
they said, "Do you Do you understand
this?" And she said, "No." And they
said, "Well, why should we tell you any
more?" And
well, I don't know. Maybe you could fill
in the blank. It's something like they
they showed her this star map, you know,
and she obviously
Look at that. Under hypnosis, Betty Hill
describes a map she was shown by the
leader aboard the ship. Later, she
sketched it. She said she was told that
the heavy lines marked regular trade
routes
and And the broken lines recorded
various space expeditions. The following
year, the map seen at right was
published in the New York Times. Mrs.
Hill, struck by the similarity between
the Times map and her sketch, then added
the corresponding names.
Yeah. And it ended up being the Zeta
Reticuli binary star system, which was
really interesting. And I remember when
I first heard about Bob's story back in
1989, and he said Zeta Reticuli.
I remember thinking, "Wow, that's what
Betty Hill saw." So, that made me also
question, "Is that real in that
document? Did Did these guys really come
from there?"
You know, because it was mentioned in
1968.
Right. So, why would the government, the
US Navy,
write that in there that would correlate
to something that we already kind of
knew? I think that was a a purposeful
disinformation
>> [snorts]
>> to disinform someone. I think so. But,
why? If maybe it's true.
Yeah, go ahead. We'll we'll we'll pause
right here and use the restroom. We'll
be right back, folks. I really got to I
got it. No worries. No worries. We'll be
right back.
Um we were talking about this whole Zeta
Reticuli thing. So,
when you're dealing with so many
different crafts and so many different
things, the idea that only one
species or one thing more advanced than
us is visiting us seems kind of silly.
If the universe is populated by all
these things.
I don't know. Does it?
That's it.
>> Kind of.
Kind of.
>> the universe is really big. I do Do you
think everybody can find this place? I
mean,
>> Yeah.
I would imagine um it's like spots that
you visit. Like uh you know, there's
Machu Picchu, there's ancient Egypt,
there's you know, sub-Saharan Africa.
There's a bunch of different places
where people go.
You know, just humans on Earth. And I
would imagine if you have an
understanding of how life is evolving in
the cosmos,
you there's probably stages where things
reach certain levels. And if you are a
>> far apart.
>> Right?
>> They're far apart. I mean, one could be
in this quadrant of the
Milky Way galaxy, and they reach that
point where they can travel and explore.
Mhm. And there's
a far distant point where another
civilization civilization can do that.
And I mean, really, do you think there
are that many? I don't think there are
that many civilizations visiting us.
There's certainly There's no doubt that
there's one from somewhere on another
planet, another time, another dimension,
whatever it may be.
Someone else is here. We're not the top,
you know, of the pyramid. No.
>> We're absolutely not there. There's no
question.
Well, I think if you got technology that
say, let's let's just say the Grays.
Let's say the Grays are real. Let's say
they fly around these little crafts.
Why would we assume that it stops there?
Why wouldn't we assume the technology
gets to the point where not only are
they far more advanced than them, but
they also are completely undetectable?
Well, if you want to view the universe
as infinite, Yeah. then it then it never
stops.
>> It scales out. There's somebody above
them, and there's somebody above them,
and there's somebody above them, and it
never stops.
>> watching this lecture where this woman
was talking about quantum entanglement,
and she was talking about how maybe our
understanding of space and the distance
between things is limited by what our
our current
technology is and our current
understanding of what what space and
time actually are. And she What she was
saying yeah. What she was saying is
there might not be we might at one point
in time, given enough time, thousands of
years, whatever, be able to
instantaneously travel anywhere.
And that just how like
quantum like like like subatomic
particles are connected in some sort of
a strange way that we don't totally
understand even at far distance spooky
action at a distance, right?
>> As Einstein said, yeah.
>> Right. That we might eventually get to a
point where that's how travel works.
That's instantaneous travel everywhere.
I think we just have hints of these
technologies. Look, everything
you know, we look at Maxwell's equations
and things like that that we base all
electromagnetic, electrostatic,
you know, um
actions on and how they relate to time
and how they relate to things in our
universe, but
uh
that may be nothing. There There may be
an entire level of physics that we're
unfamiliar with that you know, these
crafts, these people, or these
civilizations
just utilize.
Um
Of course. I mean, if you just stop and
think about going from Morse code to a
cell phone
in a relatively short period of time
historically. You go to the the
difference between 1200 and 1400 is not
that big of a deal in terms of
technology, what's available. The
difference between 1800 and 2026 is
massive.
>> Yeah, right. Yeah. It is a massive crazy
change, right? So, 2026 to
2226,
who knows what we're talking
about.
>> Right. Especially when you have sentient
AI, you have nuclear power plants that
are controlling sentient AI that are
fueling them and giving them resources.
I mean,
you really have no limit to where this
goes. You scale out a thousand years.
You scale out two thousand years.
>> You really can't scale out a thousand
years. Right. It's not possible.
>> even at a hundred years, it's way Yeah.
Too much.
>> way more than we would would have ever
considered. Also, it's exponential,
right? Right. That's That's why you
can't scale out to a thousand years.
>> you think it's exponential now, imagine
when you have AI able to generate better
versions of itself, which is what's
happening with ChatGPT 5. It's
essentially made by ChatGPT 4. Now, I AI
is that absolutely the death of us.
There's
>> [laughter]
>> There's no There's no question. Well,
we're certainly going to become obsolete
in terms of our thinking.
But,
>> If we're obsolete in terms of our
thinking, we're obsolete.
I mean, all all AI needs is hands,
right? I think we integrate.
That's what I think happens.
Yeah.
That's a scary
>> And And And that's a Yeah, I was going
to say, and that's a scary thought.
That's a scary thought because it's like
we're going to integrate. I think it's
inevitable. I think you're right about
that. We're just going there. It's It's
not like
even if you and I are not going to
actually do it, somebody will, and it's
going to integrate because other people
will, and it's going to happen. But,
it's still the same primate. We're still
the same human. Sort of, but we we
already have problems with joints, and
so we replace them with fake ones. We
you know, take titanium knees and you
know, Yeah, but they don't work as good.
They don't for now. Yeah. But, before
they used to not work at all. Like, you
know,
I've met people that had surgeries in
the 1980s, like knee surgeries, and oh
my god,
they're crippled for life. Even though
they put your knee back together again,
it's still destroyed.
>> Mhm. You know, you get a knee surgery
today, six months later, you're a
hundred percent. No, I'd I'd love to
know the future. Yeah. Well, it's going
to I'd love to know the future. Well,
that is
So, one of the things that I want to
talk about is the the actual
the generator, this thing that works on
this element that bombards it with
radiation. How did you guys figure out
what the function of it was and what it
did? So, when you're first introduced to
this craft, and you see
this this dome
>> reactor that's covering this this thing
that's generating this power. What What
was
What was the introduction to it? How did
they explain it to you?
>> The introduction was was way before me.
Um
and
that's where the guy
prior to me either got hurt or killed.
So,
they determined that this was the power
source.
And at some point
they decided to take that out to the
nuclear test site because they wanted to
cut into it.
Um they x-rayed it. They They only found
a small tube that ran went around it.
They really couldn't determine how it
worked or what was going on. So,
at some point and and Barry made this
somewhat clear that they cut into the
reactor while it was running
or or while it was under load, I should
say.
And the reactor exploded.
That's what killed or hurt the person
that I replaced.
But,
um it produced
the
the base gravitational wave or base
energy that provided that propelled the
craft that provided the craft the
propulsion. I mean, when they removed
it, the craft didn't work. When they put
it in, every single other craft they
found had something either exactly like
it or similar to it. So,
uh
they determined that was the power
source. That's at the point that I was
introduced into the project. So, when
you say gravitational wave, is that for
lack of a better term, or is it
something that's measured? Is it
>> No, it's a it's for lack of a better
term. Like there there's nothing I mean
uh as I said in Luigi's movie, you can
take magnets with like poles and push
them together and they repel, but you
can't take your hands ever and push on
something and they repel them. That's a
force field, right? That's science
fiction stuff. But that's what this did.
And this produced a field that repelled
the craft from the ground.
>> Did you try to touch it? Yeah, yeah. And
when you try to touch it What did you
feel? I
an elastic field. You can push down, but
you can't get close to it. The closer
you get to it, the the more it pushes
back. So
you can Like how much distance between
you and the actual thing you were able
to see it?
>> would say about 6 in or so? Uh maybe
about 9 in,
which is about a span.
And
um
No, it's
at some point you you can't push back on
it at all, but the important thing is
if you have a magnet
a little disc magnet sitting on the
ground
and you have another magnet and you push
on it, that magnet moves away, right?
Yeah.
>> Cuz it's pushing on it.
But the craft didn't. The reactor
didn't. If you had the craft it the
reactor there and you pushed back on it
it didn't push away when you pushed on
it. It just prevented you from touching
it.
>> Yeah, and so when Dennis said go go out
there and look under the craft
um here's the craft
whatever it weighs
suspending itself above the ground and I
went underneath it, you would think it's
translating its weight onto the ground
and pushing and I should be
squashed.
>> Squashed but without any doubt, but I'm
not. There's no feeling there at all. So
it's not translating its weight or its
push to the ground and pushing off the
ground, it's just canceling out its
weight, which is something completely
different.
Mhm.
And so
when
so element 115
um so you have it in this triangle shape
form. Mhm. Did you ask how they got into
a triangle shape form? Was it made like
this? This is how it came in the
reactor. I did, but I mean it only
worked like that. It worked like a stack
of this discs and had to be cut at a
certain angle to work in the reactor.
And And did they say they cut it or did
they say it was already cut?
Well, it was already cut and they were
duplicating it. Pull that microphone up
to you. So they they were duplicating
it. Did they have more of it, this
element?
>> Yeah, yeah, they had quite a bit of it.
So either there was a quantity in other
other crafts or other reactors that they
removed. Yeah.
But was there any discussion that there
had been some sort of an exchange where
they had been giving this? No.
So one of the things like do you know
Diana Pasulka?
She's an author that's written some
interesting stuff about UFOs and she's
worked with Gary Nolan and you know on
material recollection from supposed
crash crash sites.
And
she said that the way these researchers
refer to these crafts they refer to them
as donations.
And I guess that's possible. Right.
Well, doesn't it make sense if if this
thing crashed, why is it perfect? Why is
it not destroyed? Look, I I've heard so
many I'm not into UFOs Right, which is
hilarious.
>> Yeah, that's that's crazy.
Um I'm just interested in the technology
and I feel very privileged to have been
involved in the project. But um
I don't know. I I I I don't I don't
think
I don't think there can be that many
crashes, do you? No.
>> technology, you think they're coming to
Earth and just there's a
a thunderstorm and they're crashing into
the ground. I'm not I'm not buying that.
>> There's one logical explanation that
does actually make sense. There were
some high altitude nuclear tests that
they did.
And
>> Well, there was the Teak test, you know,
back in the '60s.
>> Starfish Prime. And Starfish Prime,
right.
>> Yeah. Um
if you had no idea that this was about
to happen and you were hovering over
Earth observing us.
>> What are the chances? I mean what are
the chances? They're not very high.
>> Yeah, they're not very I mean what are
the chances a craft is coming over and
they did a nuclear test that exact
second? Unless there's a lot more
observation than we know. And that they
just
observe us in a way that we can't see
them. As especially if you're going back
to the 1950s and 1960s
we have very few satellites. We have
very That was the nuclear cowboy era.
>> Yeah. Where they were just Well, they
just
Starfish Prime, explain to people what
they did. Yeah.
I they did a 1.4 megaton, you know
detonation up there and just
I think all they did let's see what
happens if we blow it up at this
altitude. I mean that's crazy. You know,
there was another
test planned to blow up on the moon.
Just just to make the Russians look uh
you know like [laughter]
like we were awesome. Um
you know. But they
>> Detonate the moon. What if they pushed
it away and it up our orbit?
Yeah, I think that would take a lot
more. I know. I mean there was really I
I don't remember what the uh
the project
Project A119.
>> Oh, A119, that was it. Yeah, I
>> Study of lunar research flights.
Detonate nuclear Yeah, I I can't pull up
these numbers, but yeah, A project
A111A. Crazy. Yeah, we're going to do
that. Because then like everybody on
Earth could just go outside and look at
the moon get blown up. And the
>> [laughter]
>> the explosion would be faintly visible
to the human eye to people on Earth.
>> Yeah. Wow.
>> I still think they should have done
that. But um
>> [laughter]
>> Yeah, but you're you're the guy that put
a jet engine in the back of a Honda.
Like let's see
>> think they should detonate a nuclear
bomb on the 4th of July every year.
But that's just me.
Um Well, also you live in Nevada
>> [laughter]
>> and it's more you're used to it at
least. It had a long history of them
doing that.
Yeah, oh man. So going back to this uh
reactor.
So
did how was it explained to you? Did
they explain to you how the technology
works or what they know about it? Like
Now, the way it was explained to me is
is
when I got to be alone with Barry, he
said he was excited to show this to me.
He said I'm going to turn this is the
reactor that we assume powers the craft.
Sorry. No worries. I'm uh
I'm going to uh show you the reactor
that powers the craft. And he turned it
on.
Small little dome on a flat little
plate.
I said Was this in the craft or was this
on a table?
>> this is in the experimental area. Okay.
And um So this was not the one that was
in the sport craft, this was another
one. This was another one.
>> This is it right here.
>> that's it. That's it. Okay, that's in
the film.
>> And yeah, on on the table and he had it
there and he went over
to the emitter and rotated it and he
said try and touch it.
And I put my hand on it and it it
rebounded off. And I
at the closer you got to it, the more it
pushed back.
And um that's that's a real shock
because there's nothing that pushes back
like that. That that's a that's a living
force field, that's science fiction
stuff.
So
um that really got my attention. So
explain what is happening like in terms
of the rotation of this thing?
Like what it what is happening? Like
what energy is going into it that's
causing it to go on? Well, actually we
don't know that.
I mean that that's the whole thing. It's
it's pushing back. That's a
it's a repulsive gravitational field.
Like as far as we know gravity gravity
only has an attractive force to it.
We've never even with any matter
we've analyzed it and it still has
an attractive force to it. There's no
repulsive force that we've discovered.
Because that would be a great propulsion
system.
But this repulsed.
So this was a a new field completely.
>> But how was he turning it on? He had
the emitter, which is a big pipe. Part
of What is an emitter? Like what is
The craft itself has on the main level
has the reactor
and what we call the amplifiers. Three
react the reactor and three amplifiers.
Right underneath that
there are three emitters
that are right under the amplifiers. And
we believe the energy
from the reactor is amplified by the
emitters.
And By the amplifiers. By the
amplifiers, sorry. And transmitted to
the emitters.
And they produce this field that lifts
the craft off the ground.
And that's how it works. But there is
nothing
nothing even in our physics or our
science that
that correlates to that at all.
>> And what is the energy that's going to
them that causes it to turn on? don't
>> I mean we just assume it's gravity
because it's the only thing we know like
that, but
it has a negative gravity effect. So,
it might be a new force entirely.
But when you were saying, so you have
this machine that's next to it that you
do something to that causes it to turn
on. The emitter. The right. There's the
amplifier and there's the emitter which
looks like a big pipe. Right. And if you
rotate the emitter, I don't remember how
many degrees was it? 20 degrees?
>> Three 20 degrees or something like that.
That connects it in some way
to
the reactor and it begins to be powered.
>> And what is the emitter doing?
It emits that field.
It's not a gravitate
It could be a gravitational field, but
it's an anti-gravitational field that
pushes on the ground. And what's
happening in the emitter? Did you study
the emitter? Well, we attempted to, but
no.
There was nothing that we really came up
with that.
But what does it look like? Like what's
the internal structure of it?
>> It's just it's a hollow pipe with
I guess
little copper colored plates all inside.
It's kind of in the in the film. Mhm. Um
But this
I mean, these guys have been working on
it for years before I got there and
there was really no
no concept of what they were doing.
Did they explain to you why element 115
is crucial to this working and what
>> No, but
no.
So, element 115 um
was
not even really discussed back when you
were doing this. It was
It wasn't even discovered or proven
physically until it was a large hadron
collider experiment in the 2000s, right?
No, I know they they synthesized that.
But look, and you know, in in any
element there's always
there's always a large amount of
um
Well, it did It doesn't decay.
Yeah.
That was the thing about in the large
hadron collider experiment, they they
were able to achieve it, but it only
existed for a few milliseconds. Yeah.
Sorry, I've had too much. No worries.
So,
>> um
did they
How did they define this material?
>> I mean, there's different isotopes of of
every element.
And
element 115, just like any other
element,
uh there can be a stable version of it
and a hundred or 50 different unstable
elements to them.
So,
>> [sighs]
>> I'm sorry. No, no, it's all right. Just
try to
continue the train of thought. So, It's
basically different isotopes of it.
Yeah, different isotopes. I've I need to
stop drinking this.
>> [laughter]
>> It's all right. Have a cup of coffee.
I can't even remember. Yeah, so coffee's
good. Oh, we got coffee.
Oh my god.
All right. Holy cow. There you go. Let
it hop. Um Yeah, there's I mean, there's
there's different isotopes. And you were
able to physically touch this element
Oh, absolutely. I was physically
physically able to touch the element.
Yeah. But when you're physically able to
touch it, there's no adverse effects. It
doesn't have any effect on the Feel like
metal? Does it feel like plastic?
>> It looks copper like. I mean, maybe it's
not as dark as copper is, but it it's
that color. Um
and
uh I haven't seen an element like that.
It has unique properties that other
elements don't have. It produces
an anti-gravitational field.
When combined with energy.
With some kind of energy it produces
this field.
>> Yeah.
And was it understood what is happening?
Like what is the relationship between
this element and this Like how is What
is going on?
Like you're bombarding this element with
something? Yeah, I
From what we understood, we x-rayed the
reactor itself
and there was a path around it
that looked It made it look like a
cyclotron. So,
it looked like
there was an accelerator.
So, when they were explaining it to you,
is is is this just your work partner
that's explaining this stuff to you?
>> Yes, it's it's just Barry that's
explaining
>> And did you ask him, how do you know
this? Where are you getting this from?
Is this
Yeah, he got this information prior to
me.
Um
and they x-rayed it,
found
um a a structure in there to where they
believed it was an accelerator and it
was interacting
the point of the one The 115 is in a
little triangular
piece Mhm. and it was um interacting
with that in some fashion. So,
And did he say whether or not the United
States government or whoever was doing
this research had tried to recreate one
of those on their own?
That uh that was our job to try to
recreate one of those on their own. But
what was the metal that it was made out
of?
We don't know. We don't know.
>> Again, the metallurgy was not that was
not
It seems insane that you couldn't
communicate to them that whatever this
stuff is made out of, this whole thing
acts as one cohesive unit. It's not like
you could make the same exact thing with
aluminum or carbon fiber.
>> No, you can't. This thing acted
differently.
This thing acted differently than any
material that we knew.
And I mean, I think all the answers are
in the metallurgy guys. It you know,
that's That's who knew what was going
on, who was able to provide the answers.
But um
as far as we knew, if we didn't have the
connection with those other groups, we
weren't really going to make any
progress.
You were speculating that there was a
type of
metallic alloy that would work better
with
this concept. Was it Byzantine? Like
what what was
>> Bismuth. Bismuth, yes.
Did I say that?
>> think so. I don't know. I don't think
so. No. Someone Someone that I talked to
was explaining to me.
>> It's related to on the periodic table. I
mean, bismuth is above it and 115 is
below it. But um we never did see any
correlation between bismuth. This was a
completely new material. Well, I think
Oh, that's what it was. Oh, this is what
it was. So, one of the pieces that Gary
Nolan had [clears throat] found that was
Gary Nolan is the guy to Stanford that
has examined these pieces that are from
supposedly crashed sites crash sites
where something had gone down and
scattered.
Some of these pieces, they're atomically
layered and
>> I've heard that.
>> magnesium and bismuth seem to be
prevalent in this.
>> Bismuth is the thing. Yeah. Bismuth is
the thing. It's right above 115 on the
periodic chart and there's Yeah, there's
something about that. There's something
about 115. Yeah. There's weird magnetism
stuff with bismuth. There's a video from
the Action Lab, The Strange Magnetism of
Bismuth. And it's showing a bunch of
>> Yeah.
So, let him play it out a little bit.
I'm trying to find the
What is diamagnetic?
>> Diamagnetic is it opposes magnetic
fields. I see.
So, it kind of makes sense if they're
finding these pieces that are
the way he was explaining
>> Bismuth. That's bismuth, yeah. the way
he's explaining this whatever this alloy
was, this very small piece that was
found, I believe in
prior to the 1970s. I don't remember the
exact date that he said. From one of
these crash One of them was from Brazil
that they had recovered. And someone had
gotten possession of it in the 1990s and
someone had gotten it eventually to Gary
Nolan.
He said that to create this on Earth,
first of all, it can't be done with
current technology. We don't have the
ability to do this.
>> technology?
>> Yes. And that it would cost billions of
dollars
just theoretically to make this and it's
It doesn't exist.
Yeah, this is it. Alleged
extraterrestrial metal the bottom of a
wedge shaped craft in 1940s. 26
alternating layers, 1 to 4 microns dark
bismuth
with a hundred to two hundred microns of
silver magnesium zinc alloy. Each piece
received from the US Army source were
formed with a curvature that tapered.
Oh, in the four in the 40s. Yeah. Right.
That good good luck making that in the
40s.
>> says a wedge
wedge shaped craft in late 1940s. That's
Roswell. I mean, that's that's Roswell.
Well, I mean, what What does it do? I
would like to see the test results of
just the material.
Um we can make that now.
We can?
Yeah. 1 to 4 microns of bismuth?
200 microns of silver? Yeah.
The thing is like making something like
that in the 1940s is absolutely
impossible.
>> in the 40s, forget it.
>> But I mean, now we could fabricate
something like that.
>> And it would cost a shitload of money.
So, like the idea that you would make
something like that and just scatter it
around and go, But what But what does it
do? Right. What does it do? Why? Why is
magnesium and bismuth why in that
particular
>> There is something about Bismuth.
There was something about Bismuth. But
that's that's why it's so fascinating. I
would I would love to know where they
Like it's been 40 years. I would love to
know Where they're at now. Yeah, where
they're at now. If they continued.
Well, they had to have continued. I
can't I can't imagine you go, "Ah, we're
done."
No, I mean they might have moved it. I
mean like I like I said before I mean
they were anxious to move it out of
there at that time.
But Are you aware of
the labyrinths in Egypt that they
discovered?
So, there's this
>> Are you talking about the The columns.
Columns on the
>> no. This is unrelated. This is something
different. So, Herodotus discussed this.
Now, my friend Ben Van Kerkwijk, he has
UnchartedX on
YouTube. It's an amazing channel where
he was a tech guy who just got
absolutely fascinated by all these
stories of ancient history and really
got obsessed with Egypt and Peru and and
left his field and started making these
incredible videos. But he's highly
intelligent incredibly articulate. And
so these videos are just absolutely
fantastic and really uh
he's he's
very well versed scientifically so you
can understand these things and explain
them to you. Like they're examining like
the construction of the pyramids and the
whatever technology was used to carve
the stones and there's just so much of
it that is like confusing because it's
it clearly is like a very high level of
sophistication and technology that's
involved in creating these things. Well,
Herodotus described these labyrinths
that were underground in Giza. Not not
not in Giza, but Hawara? Is that where
it was?
Jimmy will find it. But this these the
way Herodotus described it he said they
were far superior and more impressive
than the the the pyramids of Giza.
Underground. Well, these massive
labyrinths that exist underground were
all flooded in the 1960s accidentally
when they created dams in order to
provide irrigation to agriculture that
was in the area. So, they changed the
water table, it up. This whole
area got flooded.
>> Did they know they were there when they
accidentally
>> because a lot of this stuff like this is
from thousands and thousands of years
ago. A lot of it was covered over with
sand and you know, there had there had
been some explorers a long time ago that
went there and saw some of what was in
there. But the way Herodotus described
it it's just absolutely fantastic.
So, then they started using ground
penetrating radar. And they started
using these various technologies that
could detect what was under the surface.
And one of the things that they found
was there's a massive atrium. And inside
this atrium yes.
>> There is a 40 m long metallic object
that is inside this atrium.
40 m of some unknown metal. How deep is
it?
I believe it's 100 m into the ground.
So, you're telling me ground penetrating
radar can get to 100 m underground and
>> that
Filippo Bondi has used from satellites
The one that we were talking about.
>> more than a kilometer into the ground.
And
>> With decent resolution? Well, No. not
decent resolution, but enough that you
could see symmetry. Enough that they can
also detect things that are well known.
100 m is for chambers Well, listen to
this. They got they detected accurately
a particle collider in Italy that is
inside of a mountain 1.2 km below the
mountain. It sees through the mountain
and can detect this thing in the exact
diameter the exact
dimensions that this thing exist. So,
they can show you this
>> Yes. A particle collider? Yes. So, this
is a particle collider that they they
know exists, right? So, this is an
actual particle collider
>> looking for it just to prove So, they
they just it's just proof that this
technology is not just
>> Well, wait. I mean hang on. I mean how
do they know it's a particle collider?
>> No, no. Well, no, the particle collider
exists. This is a the the the Italians
have this particle collider. It it it
it's known. They made it. It's like it's
>> Okay, they they didn't detect something
underground. Right. No, it's not like we
found a particle collider that didn't
exist.
No, no, no, no. So, this [laughter]
particle collider they used this
technology to show that you can see
straight through this mountain to this
particle collider that's underneath the
mountain.
So, they know the the exact dimensions
of this particle collider. You can see
you can almost draw a schematic of it.
Well, through this technology they've
also found these columns that are below
the pyramids. These columns are 22 m 20
plus meters in diameter and they have
something that resembles coils around
all of them. And they're positioned at
various points all around where the
structure is. It goes all the way down
into hundreds of meters down and then it
goes to another structure and the whole
complex of it these structures goes to
over a kilometer into the ground.
>> But how can you see a kilometer
underground? Well, you would have to
understand this technology. What it it
was it called radio tomography? He
explained it to me.
>> aperture radar, right? Yes. Well,
whatever this technology
>> a kilometer underground at decent
resolution? It's not decent resolution,
but it's enough to understand the scope
of what it is. It's enough to understand
where spaces are Like everybody knows
about this but me. I mean
It's pretty fascinating. I'll send you
the podcast and I'll send you some of
his conferences where he was explaining
this to room fills with scientists.
>> You would think they'd be anxious to dig
this up.
>> They are.
And there's there's there's actual like
studies that are Okay. currently being
discussed. Well, they already know that
there's these channels that go in the
ground that have since been covered with
silt and sand because you know the the
sand's constantly moving. But these
things go hundreds of meters down these
shafts that go down. Like if they find
hundreds of If they find shafts hundreds
of meters down with coils around them
Look, that's advanced technology.
>> Exactly. This is the point. This is the
[clears throat] point.
Whatever this thing is that they have in
an atrium. Like if they said that they
got that craft from an archaeological
dig
I mean what
Maybe the Egyptians had found something
similar to this thousands and thousands
and thousands of years ago.
>> believe that's possible. Yeah.
Well,
The object that you're I didn't I
actually got to speak to Filippo Bondi
by the way.
He's in Italy he's in Rome we got to
speak I speak Italian so we got to talk
and we talked about that. I had no idea
they found something with a metal object
down there though. This is not Filippo
Bondi's work. This is some different
scientists that are just studying the
labyrinths. Jimmy, pull up some some of
the schematics of the labyrinth. So, in
the labyrinth there's like a big
>> Sorry.
atrium. You got to pee again? Yeah. Go
ahead. Go ahead.
>> Sorry. Head up. Yeah.
Go ahead. I feel like a ass.
>> Don't worry about it. Get some air.
Clear your head. I have a prostate. So,
in this in this labyrinth there's a
large atrium. And in this large atrium
there is essentially a Tic Tac
>> Really? a Tic Tac shaped object that is
40 m long that is of some unknown metal.
They don't know what it is. They don't
know how it works. But this is this
structure is all underground
in Egypt.
>> Which is wild because and how how it's
100 m? Well, look at Well, we'll get a
chance to look at it. This is Hawara.
So, So, there where it says the 40 m
metallic object. See that where it says
Hawara Rising?
>> Yeah. So, if you click on that it talks
about the 40 m metallic object
discovered in Egyptians.
I don't think I can't We can't read a
report on that.
>> Subterranean labyrinth. Yeah. This is
people talking about it.
>> Right. Got it. But so whatever it is,
you play out some of the video just so
we could talk about it.
>> [snorts]
>> So,
this this whole thing if you see some of
the images that they're discussing
friends Luis Dacordier will get into
images I think. And today we're
Yeah. about the work that I um Chicago
Huh. uh and the team that was in uh
Poland as well.
And at that point is when I had met the
person Lucinda Lubis
who later became my wife 6 months later.
So, yeah, you you actually
um
were working with the NRA G and then the
I don't know what they're talking about.
Yeah, that is not going to help us. But
if you could just go to some of the
images where they've sort of outlined
what it is.
>> find it. I That's
There is not a very clear image of the
metallic object that
they're talking
>> But just the labyrinth itself what they
think the structure of it was. That's
why I I don't know where they got this
from is also the other issue.
>> m mystery metal object that
>> That's a weird rendering that doesn't
usually come out from Right, but there's
some other drawings of like from the
Herodotus days and
>> Yeah, but I
Like so, this is what they think it
looks like under the ground.
>> [snorts]
>> Which is completely bonkers. And
if there is some 40 m metallic object
that's under the ground and we are
talking about like the sport model being
a part of an archaeological Right. They
might have found something back then
and worshiped that thing and had that
thing as like
>> They turned it into this. Right. As a
pyramid Yeah.
I I I I think there's something to that.
Well, there
you know, all these people that believe
that there was a incredibly advanced
civilization before some sort of
apocalyptic disaster that
reset civilization and it took thousands
of years. And what we are essentially is
not the first advanced civilization but
a rebuild. A rebuild thousands and
thousands and thousands of years later.
You know, that rings true with me. And
as Graham Hancock always says, we are a
species with amnesia. And I think that
makes sense. And I think if you're
dealing with people that were basically
knocked back into the Stone Age 11,000,
12,000 years ago and it took us forever
to rebuild to where we are now. I think
we've gone down a completely different
path than whatever the people that were
able to build the pyramids of Egypt and
all these fantastic megalithic
structures were in in a we don't
understand the technology we used. We
don't And it doesn't it literally
doesn't make sense that they were able
to do this. It's even like when we see
those big gigantic stones and they're
not just piled together. They're like
interlocked in weird shapes and all
that. It's like how do we how did that
happen? I mean that you know, those are
the things that yeah, I agree with you.
>> Yeah, archaeologists are very reluctant
to admit it but there's tremendous
evidence that not only were these people
far more advanced than we think people
should have been back then but they're
probably more advanced than we are now
with some
different kind of technology. And maybe
like again, it's like a it's like
advanced but in a different way. Right.
Right cuz otherwise
>> pathway. They didn't go
>> our way. Yeah, they didn't go internal
combustion engine and electronics
>> Cuz we would see something.
>> Exactly.
>> Right. But might not if you're thinking
about a 100,000 years ago. There might
not be anything left which is part of
the problem. But whatever this metallic
object is, if they are able to figure
out a way to divert some of the water
there
see all layers converge at a central
corridor or avenue, he said, like the
atrium of shopping mall where you can
see all floors from one vantage point. A
hall consisting of a massive space 40 m
wide and no less than 100 m long. My
personal interpretation, Tim said, is
that the entire hall was constructed to
house a centrally positioned
free-standing object about 40 m long.
Wow. So this hall, they believe was
constructed to house whatever this 40-m
long unknown metallic object is.
>> not dig that up? Well, they could but
it's going to cost an immense amount of
money. And the thing is about the
Egyptians the people that run it, I had
one of them on the podcast, Zahi Hawass,
and he's incredibly dogmatic about his
ideas of who built this and what. And
when you say, "How did they make these
structures? 2 million, 300,000 stones
that weigh between 2 and 80 tons. The
biggest stones cut from quarries that
were hundreds of miles away through the
mountain." And it's like, "This was a
national project." Yeah, man. The
Egyptians did everything because
[laughter] they were awesome. Yeah. I'm
sure they were awesome. I'm sure they
were awesome but it doesn't explain the
technology involved cuz there's extreme
technology. Just to be able to cut those
things. Like one of the things that they
don't understand is these vases.
These vases that they made that are
perfectly Yeah. perfectly designed where
there's the the difference between like
the edges and the symmetry is like a
thousandth of a human hair. And these
are cut out of incredibly hard granite.
They don't Really? I've never heard
Yeah. Yeah. You guys are familiar with
that.
>> This is a 3D print of one of them that
exists.
>> Yeah, and they're fascinated by the
perfection and they're saying how did
they do that? We don't even know how to
do that. incredibly hard stone.
>> Built with an incredible precision. Yes.
Incredibly
incredibly hard granite, incredible
precision back when they had no metal
alloys. They had copper tools. It
doesn't make any sense. None of it makes
any sense. Then there's the symmetry
involved in some of these statues. Like
they're perfectly symmetrical in terms
of the distance between the eyes, the
nose, the lips. Most No one's face is
symmetrical. Your your left side of your
face is different. If you combine the
two sides, they they look it looks
weird. But when you look at these
statues, these statues which are
massive, carved out of granite again,
supposedly before they had steel. Like
they didn't have diamond-tipped
instruments to do this. They polished
them. They're perfectly symmetrical and
massive. Some of them are a thousand
tons. And they don't have any
understanding of how these people built
these things or put them there. And they
all seem to be the biggest, most
spectacular ones are the oldest.
How could you not want to dig those up?
Yeah, well they And look and look at
them because I mean they're concerned
about national pride but if you dig them
up, I It's not just national pride. It's
the pride of the people that have been
espousing this one narrative for so
long. That's part of the problem. The
gatekeepers of the information.
>> It's still national pride.
>> It is but these people are idiots. That
that's part of the problem. Like they
their own ego is preventing them from
being open-minded and calling out to the
world's research communities and saying,
"Listen, there's something going on
here. We don't have the big picture. We
have a picture that we have formed from
a limited amount of information and
we've been incredibly arrogant about
what we're assuming. We also know that a
lot of these pharaohs would carve their
name and carve their hieroglyphs into
existing things. They would claim
existing things. Some of the carvings on
these things are far cruder in the way
they've done it than the actual
construction of the thing. And they
think that these are old things that
were there already and then these later
pharaohs Just wanted to attach his name.
>> chiseled their hieroglyphs into these
things.
And another thing and this has been
mentioned a lot is the fact that there's
no tools that were ever discovered in
those areas that would prove that those
thing that those things were made with
those and they have to use tools. They
have to have something. So there's not
even that. That's not even available. So
it's like how did they do it? Did they
hide the tools? Did they I mean why
would they do that? It doesn't None of
it makes any sense. And also these
incredibly hard vases that you find,
they're the oldest ones. They're the the
things that they find in the oldest
sites. It's like the most complicated,
complex, confusing technology seems to
be the oldest stuff.
There's also like You had another guy
here that that does a research on Peru
and he was talk I can't remember his
name. I got to meet him. Luke Caverns?
Was it him?
>> Yeah, he goes to Peru and he has a show
about that about the the ancient stuff
that they're finding underground in
Peru.
>> There's a couple guys. What was the
other guy?
He
He's got black hair. I can't remember
his name.
>> That's Luke. The younger guy?
>> Yeah, younger guy.
>> Luke. So basically he was talking about
the fact that there's two layers of
ancient stuff in Peru. The first layer
is younger and what's below it is what's
really incredible and more complex.
>> More complex but they don't want to go
there because you're going to destroy an
existing archaeological site that's on
top of it.
So what's happening is they're having
trouble now getting permission to go to
the lower level which is even better
because they're they're going to have to
break an archaeological site of a of a
more recent
part of that civilization.
>> is a common theme among people. We build
on older sites. There's a place that I
go to in Italy in the Amalfi Coast and
there's this incredible old
church there that's over a thousand
years old. But it's built on an even
older church and there's a plexiglass
floor that shows the old church.
>> Yes. That the old church is underneath
it and you can see the structure of this
old church. And I was asking them, "How
old is the old church?" They go, "We
don't know."
It's over a thousand years old. So it's
over a thousand years old this church
and then this really old church is on
top of it that's like hundreds and
hundreds of years old also. But they
built it on top of an existing
structure. So this is a common theme.
This is a theme in Peru where you see
the Inca construction which is like much
less complicated, smaller stones, you
know, mud mortar and it but it's on top
of these megalithic structures that are
carved in these jigsaw shapes where it
seems like they're they've been melted.
Yeah. It's freaky stuff. They have no
understanding of what technology was
used, who did it, how they did it, how
they moved these immense thousand-ton
stones and cut them with precision in
this jigsaw way so that it will absorb
the energy of earthquakes and not fall
down.
Yeah, that's crazy. I mean that's crazy.
>> There's a lot of that stuff that's
really, really freaky. And then you get
into old religious texts and that's when
things get really freaky. You get to
things like the Book of Enoch that talk
about the watchers who came down from
the sky and created humans. A lot of
unusual stuff happened a long time a
long time ago. And we don't have a good
record of it. We just have what we know
and what we know we get very arrogant
about. We know what happened 300 years
ago.
>> good point. Of what we know we get very
arrogant about.
>> it's also And anything else we don't.
>> These academics
and these people that are in charge of
the narrative like the people in Egypt
where they're very arrogant and they're
gatekeepers cuz their whole identity is
based on them being the ones that
explained to the world how these
incredible sites were produced. And if
something comes along that is counter to
that narrative
they fight it. They fight it because it
is their it's part of them. It's their
identity. Yeah, when I spoke to Filippo
Biondi, I talked to one of my cousins in
Italy. I spent a lot of my time in Italy
when I was younger. One of them, she was
younger than I was when I was there but
she's now become a respected archaeol
archaeologist in Rome and she's an
Egyptologist, okay? And I went out to
Italy to visit family and I was sitting
at the table. This is not even that long
ago. And she's sitting next to me and I
mean I remember her from from being a
kid. And she nudged me at the table.
There's her family's all academic.
Everybody's a doctor or scientist or
something like that. So, there's always
that pride of the science and she nudges
me and in Italian she says, "I'm really
interested in what what you do, what
you're looking into." And I knew what
she meant. It was about UFOs. And I just
responded, "I'm I'm even more interested
in what you know about what's out there
in Egypt."
And she looked at me
and she says, "We don't really know
all of it, some a lot of she said a lot
of it makes no sense."
But she said it whispering because she
knew that that's not well seen at the
table cuz now she's going to come across
as this pseudo-science type of like, "Oh
my god, she's going to come out of the
the the mainstream,
you know." So, and then she she came she
went to her place and I was still there.
We were there for a couple of days. She
came and gave me a little book
and
it in Italian, I don't know how to say
it. Il van the the the missing I don't
know how to say it in English, but
the missing evangelio, like the missing
scriptures, basically. It's a little
book in Italian about the missing
scriptures that are not in the Bible
that speak of things that are not
convenient
for what we
are arrogant to think we understand. And
one of the fascinating things about
these missing scriptures is they found
them alongside existing scriptures. So,
when they found the Dead Sea Scrolls in
Qumran, so they found these in a cave in
Qumran. And it was it's kind of a crazy
thing like someone threw a rock and hit
a clay pot and heard the shattering of a
clay pot. So, they threw a rock into
this high
cave and
realized there was something in there
and then they started looking and then
they found these scrolls that were in
these clay pots. Inside the scrolls they
found the Book of Isaiah.
It was a thousand years older than the
oldest version of the Book of Isaiah
that we had ever found and
it's identical verbatim to the Book of
Isaiah that is currently in the Bible.
Along with it is the Book of Enoch and
the Book of Enoch is squirrely.
>> Yeah. That Book of Enoch is squirrely.
That's a good way to describe it. Just a
few rabbis decided that the Book of
Enoch was too weird cuz it didn't jive
with the Torah, so they left it out of
the biblical canon. That's why it's not
taught.
But the Book of Enoch is readily
available. You can read it and it's also
in the Ethiopian Bible. The Ethiopian
Bible includes the Book of Enoch.
>> Really? Yes, and those are the people
that supposedly are in possession of the
Ark of the Covenant.
>> the Covenant, yeah. Which is like
Graham Hancock talks about it. There's
like a person is set to like they have a
job of watching the Ark of the Covenant,
but it's known that it's going to kill
them, so they all get cataracts and
cancer and they all want to die.
>> things, yeah, that's right.
>> Well, it has some sort of radiation
apparently and they they exhibit signs
of radiation poisoning when these people
are designed to be the curators.
>> Where is the Ark of the Covenant
supposed to be?
>> supposedly in Ethiopia. So, you guys
think that's
I mean, I'm very
>> it's ancient technology. I think it's
probably ancient technology. It's
probably some completely
not understood ancient technology. I'm
I'm not discounting it. I'm just I'm
just wondering.
>> Well, I like the fact that you're
skeptical even though you have the
craziest story of all time.
>> [laughter]
>> But it's
it's speaks to your integrity. It really
does because you're not a guy who
believes cookie So, for you, a guy
who doesn't believe cookie is a
hard rational scientist who is an
engineer who's done things like put a
rocket engine in the back of a
Honda and then or a hydrogen powered
Corvette and then you go and see these
things you're like, "Wait, what what the
is this thing you have in this
hangar?"
>> technology.
>> Right.
Nothing else. Right. So, I mean, to hear
something like that, it's Do you think
that that
that actually exists?
I don't know. Um Graham Hancock is
convinced it exists. It's very carefully
guarded and these people have been
guarding it for centuries.
>> it's just it's throughout history,
right? So, I mean, there's too many
missing pieces of the puzzle to really
say one way or another. I don't think
there's a right
>> mythology or an actual
>> Right. But it is weird that he's talked
to these people. They have these
cataracts and these people all say the
same thing. They die. The people that
are designed or that are designated to
be the curators of this
particular religious
>> I relate this back to the I think I told
you the first time we met, you know, if
somebody found a nuclear reactor Right.
back at that time, you know, and they
took it apart they just would drop dead.
Right.
>> the radiation. Yeah, magically from
that. And anybody that came in to check
on them would also die and they go,
"This is evil
evil. It's cursed or whatever."
>> Or and something that you're not
supposed to have access to because it's
divine.
>> Yeah, right. Could this be something at
another level? Yes. That I have to say
and I I mean, I'm no one to say it, but
I struggle with divine stuff because I'm
like it this this craft or this
technology I mean, our phones to
somebody a thousand years ago would look
like some divine object. I mean, it it's
technology to us. So, we have to be very
cautious in like I I'm not saying there
is no divine something. Maybe there is,
we don't know, but I think technology
really could mask itself as divine power
or
divine energy itself could be technology
taken to its final form.
That's that I'm open to. Well, if you
think about what we're talking about
with sentient AI, an AI that has the
ability to make better versions of
itself, what happens if it's left alone
Yeah. for a thousand years to do this?
Well, what do you have? You have
something that can harness the power of
the universe itself.
It has access
zero point energy, can do whatever I
mean, has a complete understanding of
quantum quantum entanglement, complete
understanding of how the universe
functions, how it was created. I mean,
there's new theories that believe that
the entire universe itself exists inside
of a black hole. They're trying to
figure out whether or not there were
ever was a big bang or if it's a
continuous cycle of things existing
inside black holes. So, where where
where do you think we are? What do you
think this is? I think it's a process. I
think we're we're at a stage of a
process. Our problem is we have
ideology, we have
we have dogma, we have ego, we have
people that are smarter than most
people, but want to think that they have
all the information and I don't think
they do. And then we have open-minded
people that are curious, but don't want
to look like kooks and they're all
trying to figure it out while we're
making a digital god while these
weirdo on the spectrum eggheads
>> are literally manufacturing our own god.
>> Right. Right.
>> [laughter]
>> We are. We are. If that and you you
extrapolate, you go from where it is
now, you think about the exponential
increase of technology. Well, where does
that go? It kind of goes divine. I mean,
that might be what God is. We want to
think that God is a thing that exists.
It just exists, it created everything.
Maybe we make God.
>> yeah. Yeah. All right, we're on the same
channel, yeah. I I think we created we I
think we created God. I think human
curiosity and the this thirst for
innovation is all a part of it.
I'll say something about the technology
cuz it always fascinates me. I mean, I
spent four years with Bob and I had to
build it in a virtual environment, so I
kind of had to think about it while I'm
doing it, but if you really think about
what this technology that you saw does
it essentially creates this artificial
field of whether it's artificial maybe
it's natural. Maybe it's a natural
field, but it creates a field that we're
not familiar with and that field I mean,
Joe, you saw the movie there was a test
that was done in the lab that froze a
candle flame. Right, right.
But the but the photons are still
visible within our realm here outside of
the field and you're still seeing the
photons, yet it looks like it's frozen.
To me is the is this is that technology
like a black hole? Is it some type of
time stop?
And they and it it basically gives us
the power to utilize time in our
advantage. If you think about
progression in technology, anything we
do, it takes time. Anything takes time.
Whether it's computing power where now
we're seeing quantum computers do things
that they're faster and faster and they
could do a trillion processes in an
instant and Japan is going coming up
with better and then China.
But because everything has to do with
how long does it take to do that? Right.
If a technology can make you bypass time
it's like the record player playing
music, but you're you're now able to
lift it lift the little pin on the
record and move it to wherever you want.
>> Yes. That's a good way to describe it.
>> Right? And now at that point time is in
your hands.
And if we have a technology similar to
what you saw because you always said
gravity is a control gravity and time.
>> yeah. It it's interlocked, right?
>> and time are interlocked.
>> Exactly. So, if that's interlocked, then
we have to look at it not just as a
propulsion system or some type of cool
weapon
but how is it affecting time and how can
we use that to our benefit to evolve
sorry, to evolve faster?
Because again the faster we can compute,
the faster we could do something, the
faster we're evolving. And if we could
lift that needle and bring it faster to
get there to get somewhere, why not use
it? Or should I mean should we be
allowed to do that? Austin our current
form.
>> Yeah, I know. I
>> [laughter]
>> Like I said, I'm I'm not exactly on our
side anymore.
Well, that was one of the
Do you remember Jamie who discussed the
way they were describing the use of some
of this alien technology as
instantaneous
weapon deployment systems? I I'm not
sure we should be trusted with this
stuff.
>> Right. No, really. Well, you think about
what we're doing in Iran right now, you
would say no. Yeah. Yeah, I would I
would say no for sure.
>> over patches of dirt and bombing the
out of
>> No, imagine if we had something a a a
million times that power. Um
Really, humans should not
be trusted with that.
>> Right, we got to trust it to AI. That's
why we're making it, Bob.
This is [laughter] This is getting
scary. Yeah, it is getting scary. It is.
But it's it's not science fiction
anymore.
>> no no it's not I mean we're making fun
of it now, but no this is this is
dangerous stuff and I'm
you know, I'm sorry for the people who
think this is all a joke. It's not. This
is real. And um
I'm really not sure we should be trusted
with this. That's maybe why for 40 years
or 60 years people have agreed to keep
it quiet.
>> I would agree.
>> And and um
Well, that's the most logical
conclusion.
>> Yeah, this is incredibly dangerous
stuff. And again, it's a world
dominating technology. And I I don't
know what to do with it other than to
keep it from people.
So,
and how do we know if it comes out
something I always struggle with is
let's say they they let's say we do get
an a
some some type of thing saying, all
right, we we have to see it from
somebody in the government, the
president, whoever that says, okay, here
we are, we have this. Well, first of
all, we have to validate it. The
journalists are going to The whole world
Nobody's going to say The media is not
going to just trust somebody saying
that. They're going to go, okay, wait a
minute. What are you talking about,
right? So, it's not like because
somebody says it, we just have to
swallow it. It's like, all right,
go. Show us, right? And then when you do
that, well, now you're exposing
something else. What do we What What
happens when we need to believe it? Like
as as a as a as people, what do what has
to happen for me to believe something
that somebody says?
There really has to be something serious
that makes me believe it. Right.
>> You know what I mean? Like some if a
president or anybody, prime minister,
whoever it is says something to me, I'll
still go like, okay. I mean, show me.
Right.
>> they when they show it, how do I know
that's actually that?
Think about that. Yeah. Right? And then
from there, we now have to go to another
level of okay, well, if we have to prove
it, we have to bring in scientific
community.
Okay. That means they have access to it.
What's the security parameters there?
Right. And then you get
compartmentalization.
Right. And then that stops any sort of
an understanding of And that's why you
have this stigma this stick this
stagnation of where you've got these
people working on this thing for decades
and not making any progress. Do you know
how far we could have gotten if there
was free discussion between all the
groups working on this? Right. Yeah. But
then you also have these psychos
like from Dr. Strangelove that want to
turn it into a nuclear delivery system.
Yeah.
So, where you don't have to worry about
them detecting nuclear bombs headed
their way, you just instantaneously
devastate Moscow in one shot.
You don't have to take credit for it.
Yeah, but we'd
Right. [laughter]
No, it's like we are not ready. Right.
Yeah, and I know we're not ready, but
we'd be more advanced if we did that.
No, I I mean I I agree that I agree with
that. But um
It's all very strange and no one knows
more strange than you.
Uh like No, there are plenty of people
that know more strange than me. I mean,
Dennis knew more strange than me.
Anybody above him knew that. I just knew
a small part of it.
>> But you out of all the people that can
talk about it that are out there
communicating about it, you have
actually seen it physically.
>> Yeah, I I I try to only talk about what
I I've seen and touched and verified.
I've heard plenty of other stuff that I
don't know if it's true or not. And
there's no sense in repeating that.
Because nonsense moves at the speed of
light these days.
>> Right. Yeah. It does. And that's that's
just it's terrible. You live in a weird
existence, Bob. You really do. Because
you're you know, you've been holding on
to this. You have this experience from
40 years ago that's just
become a part of
folklore. It's become a part of the
zeitgeist. Like this is why your podcast
that we did is the most watched podcast
I've ever done. This resonates with
people in a way that Look, I've done a
lot of UFO ones. I had Travis Walton on.
I've had a lot of people that have
stories. They're all very interesting.
They don't get nearly the amount of
traction that yours does. And I think
it's because you're uniquely credible.
You're uniquely credible in the fact
that you are very skeptical. You're not
interested in like these fantastic
ideas. You're you're very dismissive of
nonsense. But yet you have this burden.
Like you actually
physically touched these things
and went inside of them.
>> I mean, I was fortunate enough to have
this really unique job. That that's
about it. And I am fascinated with the
technology.
But that's where it stops.
I'm not interested interested in anybody
else's story, although everybody has to
email me and you know, I I understand
it, you know, they're looking for
somebody Hey, I saw this thing out when
I was out on my boat and then you know,
what is it?
I don't know. You know, I mean, they're
[laughter] they're they're they're
they're just looking for something and
that's like I don't know, maybe it was
Venus or something and
Oh my god, you suck, you know, you work
for the government, you [laughter] know,
and it's like Dude, I'm just looking for
a prosaic explanation and and um
you know, but I only know what I saw and
I touched for myself. And everything
else, even in official government
documentation, it's just words on paper.
I don't know if that stuff is true. So,
you got to draw the line there. Yes. But
um you know, I know what I what I did
see, I know for a fact. And there is no
way you can tell me that that's not
real.
Yeah. I I mean, I I have to say in
having worked with him and having you
know, inadvertently, there's no way that
myself or people on my team weren't
trying to dig deeper and find Maybe
there's a prob- Maybe there's going to
be a gap. Maybe we'll find something
wrong with the story. Cuz we we went we
went very deep. We had to build S4. We
had to build the sport model.
And
there were things that happened over the
years, things that he had said to us
before we had built it that there's no
way he could have known because there
was physicality, real things that we
built. When you build something in a 3D
environment, you're actually building a
real world. It's got light bounce and
refractions like the real world. Like
when you turn on the light, it does the
same thing. If a material has a sheen,
you see it. It's literally the same
thing. It's just computing power that
gives you access to another world. And
he mentioned things that were absolutely
impossible to know.
Like what? One of the things that got
two things really
convinced me.
One of them was in the interior of the
craft. You had said to us it was very
dark in there.
And while Bob is explaining to us the
this interior of the craft and many time
he kept repeating it was really dark in
there.
And so, at a certain point he says, as
I'm crawling in, there's like these
extension cords. And I remember going,
extension cords? Like I it that hadn't
computed. And he's like, yeah, they had
lights in there. And I'm thinking, it's
true. I mean, there's no light switch
inside this big thing. It's 50 52 ft.
It's big. And so, he said, yeah, there
were two big industrial yellow
industrial lights with four spots each
pointed up. And so, we decided to make
those. We decided to research the type
that were used back then in the United
States, especially on military bases,
the halogen power cuz it was halogen in
1988. And we turned them on. And it was
still dark.
>> And it was super dark. And I remember
Christopher Mattel, by the way, a big
shout out to Christopher Mattel that's
on my team who made a lot of those
visuals and he's like a magician. He's
He's the best.
He He's there and I I said, Chris, turn
on the lights cuz we have to film in the
craft. And he's like, they're they're
on.
I said, they're not on. I can't
see anything. He's like, they're fully
on.
And I said, well, that that doesn't make
any sense. It's so dark in there. I
remember thinking,
>> light in there.
>> we upped the power of the light so that
you could see more. And it was still
dark. And I thought, what the hell is
happening? I goes, is there a bug? Is it
Is there something wrong? He goes, no, I
don't know. It's It's It's absorbing the
light in there.
We had to up the light intensity on
those tripods by 20-fold
in order for you to see the visuals you
see in our film.
Otherwise, it would be really dark in
that craft.
>> So, how did you compute that? Like what
what what parameters did you establish?
So, what you do is you're you're inside
a 3D environment. You're an actual a
three you're in a 3D world. Now, we're
inside the craft that is 52 ft in
diameter. It's we bring a camera in
there. So, we were filming the whole
film was was done with the Blackmagic 6K
cams. So, we would bring our Blackmagics
in the 3D environment. You can actually
set that so that we could film inside
the craft so matches the filming of of
our real cameras.
And so, the as soon as the camera's on,
it's the same lens, it's the same
aperture, everything is as you would
have it. And so, you're trying to adjust
for this dark room.
But if the room is really dark, you
can't really get a good look at it cuz
if you go close enough, you would have
seen like a seat and a little bit of the
reactor, but you would have been like,
"What's the black screen I'm looking
at?"
>> So, what is the explanation for why it's
so dark? It's just the way the light
reflects on the And that is exactly
Yeah, it's when you're in that space,
exactly
>> here's the question. Like, what what are
you when you're making this in a
computer model? Right? What are you
putting in that would make it absorb
light that way?
>> I didn't do that. So, what we did is
we spent over a year with Bob. I I'm not
I'm not kidding. It was like a year of
trying to figure out the material of the
craft, the the actual skin of the craft.
That was the hardest thing to do in
>> clarity and the reflectivity of the
actual material.
Yeah. And then when the lights are in
there, they just reflect at a weird
angle, and it never gets bright in there
unless you have
tremendous amounts of light in there.
It's always dark.
>> And and sorry to interrupt, but that
would have been So, when when that
happened and we have the right material,
which is like this let's call it
unpolished stainless steel. It's got a
little bit of usage to it just to give
it some texture.
It's It's as It's got the same sheen,
reflection, refractions of a real
material like that cuz every time we put
a fake light in there, okay, it's
reacting like that.
And now you turn these big halogen
lights on and it's like the part of
where the halogen is hitting the ceiling
of the craft cuz they were turned
upwards. Remember you Bob said they were
not pointed like this. They were pointed
to the ceiling of the craft. So, you got
two of them.
It's like wherever the light was going
was getting eaten up by that portion of
the material. So, it's not reflecting
all the way. So, you have a 52-ft
distance and it's being lost in a maybe
7-8 ft diameter environment area where
the light is. And we're like, "Why is
that happening?" But that's how it What
that's the reality. He could not have
known that if he if he's trying to make
that up.
Anybody who's inventing a story says
there's two industrial light
with four hal- bright halogen spots in
there.
A liar would not say it was really dark
in there.
You don't know that. You have to build
it. Right. So, to me that was a
physicality of being inside the craft
that made me go, "Lazar could not have
known that if he was making that up."
>> know it until you experienced it.
>> Exactly. Right. So, I'm like, "Unless
Bob back then decided to go and in his
garage build himself a fake dome, which
I don't think you did." I'm like, "How
would he have known that?" We didn't
expect that. We were we were struggling
with, "Why is it so dark in there?"
>> And you make films, so you're used to
using lighting and
>> Exactly. And and Chris was like, "Dude,
this thing is just eating up the light."
And I'm like, "Bob kept saying it's so
dark in there." And it just How How do
you How do you How is that possible?
>> the other things? The other one
I laugh about this with Bob all the
time. It's about the flag
on the craft that you could have seen
it.
>> remember.
>> So, when he walked into the hangar the
very first time,
he saw the very first time
>> flag.
>> he saw the craft and he saw the American
the reversed American flag sticker on
the craft.
>> why it was reversed. I I'll get to that
in a sec. I think I know, but
whatever. I'll I'll I'll say what I
think. And
there's a lot of stuff I researched a
lot of stuff on Bob Lazar before I did
this, and there's a lot of bad
information out there.
So, I I really I I really tell people if
you really want to see what he saw,
don't go read what's out there. Check
this out cuz Bob actually vetted
everything, so it's not the wrong
information read. But anyway, there's a
lot of detractors saying there's no way
Lazar could have seen that flag. If the
craft was that size and it was on the
hall on the on the craft shell, there's
no way the angle he's 5 something, he
wouldn't have been able to see it. So,
we built it. We built a 52-ft diameter
craft. We put it in the hangar. It's
there. And my my team, Chris, gives me
the goggles, the ones I made you try on.
And it's the very first time I go in
there. And I know the craft is there.
So, I put them on. And now they're
they're hoping cuz they're there with
with notes. They're hoping I'm giving
them all the notes of, "No, that's not
good. That's not good." And the first
thing I did is I looked to my right. I'm
looking at the craft.
And I'm I asked uh Chris to put me at 5
ft 10, which is your height. So, I said,
"At 5 10, I'm Bob's height with the
goggles. I want to see."
And the first thing I said is, "Oh, it's
There it is."
And they're like,
"There what is?" I said, "The flag." And
they thought I was pointing at a flag on
a wall. And they're like, "There's no
flag in the hangar." I said, "No, on the
craft." And they're like, "Yeah?"
I said, "You can clearly see it."
It was clear. That was something that
also made me go, "Yeah, this is this is
it. This is the real size." So,
had Bob Lazar not actually seen that,
the majority of the the detractors out
there kept saying there's no way at that
angle a human eye could see a sticker on
the top of the craft, which is on the
top shelf.
>> Mhm.
But you can. It's as clear as day. So,
those were two things that I considered
to be like, you know,
it's there. So, I know to may- maybe
some people that's not a lot, but as a
person like I am who's very technical,
I'm very
I'm super difficult. It took a long time
to do this cuz I'm a perfectionist, and
I wanted to make sure it was accurate to
what he saw.
I look at stuff like that because I
analyze everything like that.
And I I analyzed his story inside out.
>> you couldn't see the flag from that
position, it would it would be a red
flag. Yeah, that would have been a red
flag for me. I would have been like,
"Wait, you can't see it." But you can.
So, you can't you can't put
enough of a value on little details like
that
because he didn't say this in 2026. He
said this in 1989. Right.
Why?
>> Why do you think the flag was reversed?
In American uh flag use law, the the the
the only thing we were able to
ascertain is the fact that on military
or on vehicles, anything military on a
on a uniform, if ever you see an
American flag on your right shoulder,
it's reversed because it's how the wind
is blowing the flag. On your left side,
it's like the flag is because the wind
is blowing this way. If you look at
[clears throat] vehicles, uh let's say a
Greyhound bus, they have American flags
on each side, and they have a normal one
on the left one on the left side and a
reversed on the right side because it's
the right side of the vehicle. So, it's
a blowing it's blowing in the flag
>> the flag that way. So, the reversed
American flag is a is a is a actual
uh
it's the law of how to use the flag in
the United States military or on
vehicles. And it has to be like that on
the right side. So, to to say, "Is that
the right side of the craft?" Yeah, it
must be.
>> be because if you go into the craft, the
seats when you're when you go into the
craft I I can't wait for you to go in
the craft.
When you go inside, the seats are facing
the right side, meaning
the hatch is the right side of the
craft. It's the only thing that came to
mind. I mean, is that what the they did
at S4? They put a sticker on it?
I mean, it's the only logical thing we
could think of is that's why it was
there. Mhm. I don't know. I'm
you know, my other my other because if
it was an American fla- if it was just
for identifying this is America,
why would you reverse it? Right. Right?
You're reversing it because it's
indicating the direction which it
travels. Exactly. Wow.
That's just an interesting
>> Yeah. Right?
It's all interesting. The The goggles is
a trip. When I put on the 3D AR goggles
and you you VR goggles rather and you
you stand in that
warehouse, that hangar, and look at it,
it's very strange. It feels weird.
>> like it was. It feels very weird. It
feels very weird cuz I I mean, I'm only
imagining what it's like to actually be
you in 1988 and be standing there. When
you put the goggles on, that's exactly
how it was. What did What did Dennis say
when you first saw it? Was like, "Huh?
Huh?"
Like, [laughter] "Come on."
Dennis Dennis was hardcore. Yeah.
>> He was Yeah, he was here. Look at that.
You know, come back in here. I mean it
There was no reaction. Barry on the
other hand was out of his mind. He he
couldn't wait to show me stuff and you
know, he said, "Check this out. Oh my
god, that was that awesome." You know,
but Dennis was uh
It was like a hardcore
you know, military guy.
How much of a view did you get of the
other crafts? Cuz it's one of the things
in the film, you only see like hints of
them. That was it. That's it. That's it.
What you saw on the film was exactly
what it was. It was just a passing thing
and as I was walking out there going,
"Wow, there's more. Everything looks
different." And
other than the the first two hangars, I
really couldn't tell what was past out
there, but there were other hangars and
there were things inside them. But It's
also interesting that at the time in
1988, this site was not even confirmed.
This was like for you to have to know
about this and know the exact location
of it is kind of strange. Right. Now,
Luigi did that. I mean, I gave him the
general idea. I said
you know, I know
what time I got out there and I could
see Papoose Lake and behind me
the hill.
>> He pulled he pulled up a lot of stuff
from there. But another interesting
thing he pulled up was
there was an old silver mine exactly
there.
In the exact same place and I wonder if
they used that as the it was already
drilled. There was already, you know,
corridors in there.
>> I actually held this
for this show. What I'm about to say is
the first time ever. It's not even It
didn't make it in my film. I wish it
did, but it didn't make it in the film.
Veronica at on our team, she's my
sister. She's like my right hand and I
didn't If I didn't have her, I wouldn't
be here right now.
She found this
and at a certain point we were looking
at the maps out there and we we You'll
see in my film that Gene Huff sent us
some US Department of the Interior
official maps of that environment at the
Groom Groom Lake Papoose Lake.
But we weren't satisfied. We wanted to
go deeper. We said there's got to be
more and there's one map
in
that is a publicly available map. It's
super not easy to find, by the way,
that is in the hands of the US
Department of the Interior.
I could get it to you if you want. I can
email it to you.
That map is the oldest map of Papoose
Lake known in the hands of the
government that is that is public
domain.
That map and everybody's going to be
listening to this
clearly shows a road that goes right
into where S4 was.
is.
It doesn't show a road near it. It shows
a road going right in the mountain.
And they removed it. That map is from
1941.
Okay? Right after that, the map is 1950
and 1952 and those roads were removed.
But the the late the oldest map we ever
found, it's going to be available.
We're going to post it on our website.
It's going to be everywhere.
It shows
clear as day a road that goes right into
the mountain exactly where Bob Lazar
said S4 was. So, do you think that was
the road to the silver mine initially?
>> Yes, I believe that yeah. I believe It
makes sense that they would use an
existing facility and just enlarge it
instead of start from nothing. Right, of
course. Especially if it's abandoned.
Yeah. Yeah.
And it also makes sense that if Roswell
was real and if they really did
find a crashed UFO in 1947
like in the 1950s they'd be like, "Let's
get rid of this road."
Right?
>> Yeah, if we're putting this out there,
if we're building this facility out
there. And if they did have it, that
also makes sense that they worked on
this for decades. You come along in
1988, they've got this happening in the
1950s and it's still there. Yeah.
Yeah. I think what happened is when the
CIA took over cuz CIA is the one took
over area They're the ones that Area 51.
I think what happened is as they took
over, they just removed the the road.
It wasn't even because there was a UF
a flying saucer there. I I just think
they got in there, took control of that
terrain, that whole landscape and said
"Remove it off the maps." Because it's
there prior to them taking ownership of
that land.
So, I mean
it's clear that there was a road there
and then they came in, CIA said take it
out and S4 might have had already an
installat Not it wasn't an installation,
but they probably had a a tunnel in
there already because they were it was a
mine.
So, it was an easier way to build a big
facility in the in the side of the hill.
Makes sense. It does make sense. And
then there's also the images that you
got of what looks like the hangar bay
doors that are camouflaged. And I have
to say that Got to go again? Yeah.
Sorry. No worries. I'm That's all good.
That
>> [laughter]
>> Technology will fix that.
It'll remove your prostate.
>> [laughter]
>> Turn you into a alien.
Um so, though the that image that you
got um of the unfortunately it's kind of
blurry, but it you do see something that
looks very similar to what you'd expect
to be camouflage garage bay doors. I got
contacted by a guy called Scott
Mitchell. And I was getting contacted by
everybody, Joe. Everybody everybody was
trying to get in in find getting to make
me work with them or use something they
found. So, I was I was ignoring 95 99%
of people's like It's getting tiring.
Everybody's like, "You got to listen to
me. I know stuff about that." I'm like,
"Whatever. I'm working with Bob Lazar. I
I have enough right now."
But this guy we had built the base.
And I knew exactly where it was. I knew
exactly the layout. And this guy he not
only contacted me, but he sent me an
image that he had that he had drawn. He
didn't want to send me the real what he
had found, but he says, "Here it is.
This is where the doors are and this is
exactly where they they point to."
I looked at the image and I said
"Not bad." I mean, he really nailed it
in the image and I thought "Okay." I I I
at first I thought somebody on my team
leaked something we had. To be honest,
I'm like, "Ah, who did that? Who sent
out one of our renders to somebody?" And
cuz that's what I thought. And they're
like, "No, no, no. This is what?" So, I
I
talked to this guy and
he's a he's really really good at
researching and he ended up becoming
probably one of the best I've ever like
he's one of the best I've ever seen. His
name is Scott Mitchell.
And he says, "There are pictures that
were taken in 2020." And they ironically
those pictures were taken on December
25th, 2020, which is Christmas Day
in the middle of COVID.
Which means the base might have been
shut down.
If you think about that, you know what I
mean? Like it's COVID. It's like in the
heat of it. Plus it's 20 It's 20 It's
25th of December. So, there's probably
nothing going on there. And this private
uh
pilot in in a small Cessna requested
access inside the perimeter
and they granted him permission.
And he had a big Nikon camera on board
with a big telescopic zoom and he took a
ton of pictures and they're
amazing. They're all public. They're all
available. You can download them.
And there's this these pictures of
Papoose Lake and the hill. But they were
being used on the internet for a long
time. Everybody was like, "See, Bob
Lazar is is a fraud. It's not real.
There's nothing there."
Well, of course you can't see it. It's
First of all, it's 17 mi away and
secondly, they're not designed for you
to see it. And that also let's talk
about something that Bob was talking
about in 1988. The picture was taken in
2020. I mean, there could be
That's could be a different landscape
now. Anyway.
So,
he said, "Look, this image if you change
the contrast, you got to keep the
original, but just move and try to
extract data from your image." You know,
anybody who knows how to use that do
that with photography, you can do that.
And he and he pulls out these this this
geometric these geometric shapes. You
could see them. They're they're like
little They look like rectangles.
And I thought
"What if this is not real?" I I'm I was
super skeptical. I'll be honest with
you. I wasn't I'm We're talking about
the the picture with the doors on the
the hangar doors the hangar doors, the
one from Scott Mitchell, the one that we
have in the film. All right, right. And
uh
And so I I I didn't believe it. I
thought there's no way. I go, "There's
no way this is real. I I I don't believe
it." So, Scott was really cool. He said,
"Look, man, I I understand you're
skeptic. I get it. I want you to do me a
favor.
Go online. Search it yourself. I won't
even tell you where it is. I'll just
tell you what who who took the pictures.
E The The only thing he gave us is the
picture number is 0501. That's what the
picture number is. He goes, "If you find
it, have what whoever on your team play
around with it until you see it." That
was fair cuz I said, "Okay." Cuz I mean,
if it's if it's out there, there's two
different places it was
on online and the one place we got it
from was the source of it, okay? Was the
from the photographer, the guy himself.
We take it. I had three different people
on my team. Everybody's really good at
all this stuff on my team. So, I said,
"Guys,
this is what we need to see. If you guys
could pull it up, I I I'm I'm not going
to be a skeptical. Everybody got it
almost in the same time. They were
playing around and eventually the the
easiest software we used to get that
detail out was DaVinci Resolve. And with
DaVinci, it's a faster process than if
you're messing around with Photoshop or
whatever.
And it came and I was like, "Oh my god."
It it it's it's really there. You could
clear So, what I did is I had them scan
the rest of the picture because it's
pixels, right? So, I said, "Let's also
see if it's not some pixel pixelation.
Is it maybe just what the photo does?
Maybe we just got lucky and it looks
like that there. Maybe it's going to
show something similar elsewhere." And
it doesn't. And then I said, "All right,
go get me 0502. I want 0500. I want"
because the guy kept snapping pictures.
I want you to do the same Like we went
really military. Like I said, "I want to
make sure this is this is real. I don't
I'm not going to put our name on this if
it's not." And then it ended up being
other pictures also show it, by the way,
cuz he he went click click click. So,
it's like it's not just that one. That's
the clearest one. And so, I was at a
certain point I go to Bob's house and
I'm sitting there and the guy
calls me. Scott Mitchell calls me and he
he has no idea I'm with I'm with Bob
Lazar.
So, I pick up. It's a video call.
And he goes, "Hey, man, what's going
on?" I said, "Well, look." I said, "Look
who I'm with." And he just like exploded
cuz he was like, "Oh my god, you're with
Bob." And I said, "Show him." And so,
Bob was there and we showed it we ended
up transferring the call on a on a Zoom
call. And he showed it and you said,
"Yeah." Like I remember you going,
"Yeah, that's it." Yeah, yeah, that.
What did that look like to you when you
saw those images?
>> that was that was awesome.
>> Yeah.
>> It was awesome. What what was really
shocking was the first hangar was
bigger. Yeah.
>> And that's what we discovered. Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah, cuz the first hangar is the big
hangar and there's a bunch of smaller
ones. And I said, "Jesus, the first
hangar is bigger. You You found it. You
found it." So, I mean, that that was I I
just lit up at that point.
>> it was
>> What happens if you look at that site
with Google Earth?
That is with the Google Earth.
>> No. No, that was the picture, but Google
Earth but Google Earth and I'll tell you
something about Google That that was the
>> That wasn't with the Google Earth?
>> No, the the picture is a real photo.
The picture of the hangar doors is a
real photo.
>> I said that was Google Earth.
>> No. No, the picture is a real photo. The
Google Earth, though, you see that in
the film.
>> Yeah.
I can't make this up. I didn't want to
put anything in the film. That was one
of my things. I did not want to put
anything in the film that would make me,
the whole team, or even Bob look like
we're trying to like
MacGyver some something in there. It has
to be you go look for it yourself. It's
public. If you don't believe it, go
check it out yourself. I That's how
That's what was That's the only thing we
allowed in there. And
when you go on Papoose Lake,
on June 20 So, June 22nd of 2024,
June of 2024,
Google Earth changed. There's you're
you're going to be right over Papoose
Lake. If you zoom in, you're you're not
going to notice it cuz it it's kind of a
yellowish a tint to the to the image.
And I remember going, "Why is it so
yellow?" I mean, I'd been there so many
times. I was like, "Why Why it
turned so yellow?"
And I'm like I saw I I'm zooming out and
I'm like, "Why did they it up?" I
thought they ruined everything.
It's all yellow. And as I go further,
you see this box that is like right over
Papoose. So, I'm like, "What is that?"
And I put my mouse over it and wherever
you're in the box, it's June 22nd, 2024.
And as soon as you put your mouse
outside of the box, well, it's an older
date.
And I thought, "Oh, they just did that."
And the mis- So, I think what they
thought they were going to do
is that new filter right over Papoose
Lake removes every possible detail on
the terrain the landscape.
Where the brushes are and the the Joshua
trees are. It really really removes all
that.
>> everything.
>> It blurs everything out. But it makes
they made a mistake. They made a huge
error. I believe so. And I think if
they're listening, they're going to go,
"Yeah,
our bad." To the to the DoD cuz they're
going cuz you see all the tracks on the
lake.
It for some reason that filter
accentuates the tracks on Papoose Lake
and removes the landscape brushes for I
don't know why. It just did that. And I
was like, "Holy you see all these
tracks." What it looks like is they're
trying to purposely obscure the area.
>> Yes. And the fact that it's in a very
clear box.
>> Yeah. And you talked about that in the
film. And it's kind of bonkers.
>> And what's crazy
>> no reason
>> There's no reason.
>> one little square box out of Why? Why?
That nobody goes to, right? Yeah. So,
they tried to obscure it. Yeah. Yeah.
Why would
>> I thought, "Jeez, dude, we got to put
this in there. I mean, it's so cool,
right?" It's all very compelling.
Um
I think we should wrap this up, but uh
the film's excellent. Thank you.
>> Congratulations. You can tell it took a
tremendous amount of effort. And uh I
could tell by watching you watch it when
we watched it together that it had an
insane impact on you. It it really
affected me.
>> before I saw it with you. So, you're
just seeing it again. It's just like
it's bonkers. Yeah, it it really
affected me. And uh
is Is there anything else you want to
say? There's a couple things I want to
bring up.
>> Okay.
>> You know.
>> Yeah. Um
Just because I stuff Luigi has told me,
people think that I make millions of
dollars off of this stuff.
>> [laughter]
>> Oh, yeah. And I don't. I would I would
love to sign on to the millions of
dollars program. [laughter]
Um you know, Jeremy made made his movie
and I didn't get a cent from Jeremy's
movie. I said, "Anything you make, give
to George." Um
you know, it Luigi has spent millions of
dollars of his own money, literally,
right?
>> Literally.
>> know, making this stuff. And I can't see
how he's ever going to make the money
back. If he does, that's awesome. I
drive a uh 1980-something
uh
>> Not a 1980. You drive a
>> No, 19
>> 2018 No, a 20 2018 Chevy Bolt electric
car. I mean, it's a car you'd buy for
your teenage daughter. It's embarrassing
to drive. It cost me $18,000.
You know, my house on the 10 acres cost
450 grand. And you know, back when I
when I got it, I mean, that's that's I
work 6 to 7 days a week at United
Nuclear, my business. I mean, if there's
anyone that wants to give me millions of
dollars, please [laughter]
contact contact me immediately because I
would like to retire. But but no, I
don't make millions of dollars off this
stuff. And uh I
I my my wife and I do fine. We grow our
food in our greenhouse and we live in
our little place up in the mountains and
that that that's it. But I um you know,
this is Luigi's thing. That's why he's
here. I think the film's going to be
very successful and I think you're
probably going to make money off of it.
At least I'm hoping.
>> he'll make money off it.
>> Well,
>> [laughter]
>> he'll make money off of it.
>> I Thank you, Joe. Um
I think we should wrap it up. Thank you
very much, Luigi. Knocked it out of the
park.
>> you.
>> It's fantastic. Bob, great to see you
again, as always. I'm sorry I had to pee
so much. That's okay.
>> [laughter]
>> It's understandable. It's
understandable. And uh again, the film
uh let's show it on the screen, Jamie,
so people can know uh where they could
see it when they
when it's available.
>> Yeah, it's available actually as of
right now.
Let's play the trailer. We'll we'll
we'll end it with
>> let's do that. S4 The Bob Lazar Story.
We'll end it with a trailer.
It's on Amazon and uh We Are Not Alone.
>> Not Alone, right?
Physical evidence now exists which
proves that there is life elsewhere and
at least one form of that life has been
here.
As of 1989, that evidence was in the
custody of the United States government.
Between December of 1988 and April of
1989, I worked as a senior staff
physicist in what has to be the most
secret project in history.
My job in this program was to be part of
a back-engineering team.
>> [music]
>> This particular disk appeared to be in
excellent condition and because of its
sleek appearance, I nicknamed it the
sport model.
The goal in this program was to see if
the technology of the disk could be
duplicated with Earth materials.
To start up the reactor, of course, we
need [music] some element 115.
In fact, you need 223 g machined into a
wedge like this.
The program at Area S4 [music] consisted
of three projects: Project Galileo,
Project Sidekick, and Project Looking
Glass.
The file on top was [music] Project
Galileo. And as it turned out, that's
the project that I was part of. And that
clearly
[music]
referred to
alien spacecraft.
Just cannot be a secret from
from anyone, [music] not just the
American people, but the rest of the
world.
All this stuff is something that
happened to him. It's not who he is.
They're doing everything they can to
keep this information secret.
That's empirical evidence. I saw a craft
to do that, thanks to him.
>> [music]
>> Help this story spills.
And the world change.
Bye.
>> [music]