[00:01] Joe Rogan podcast, check it out. The Joe
[00:04] Rogan experience. TRAIN BY DAY, JOE
[00:07] ROGAN PODCAST BY NIGHT. ALL DAY.
[00:12] WHAT'S UP, GENTLEMEN? HEY, JOE. [music]
[00:14] Great to see you again, Bob. Same here.
[00:15] Long time.
[00:16] >> Luigi, Joe. Um you are still to this day
[00:21] the most watched ever podcast we have
[00:23] ever done that's on YouTube.
[00:25] >> That's That's just unreal. It's unreal.
[00:28] It is unreal cuz it shows you how many
[00:31] people are just absolutely fascinated by
[00:34] the story and what you guys have done in
[00:37] this new film
[00:39] is essentially recreate S-4 and using AI
[00:45] recreate you as a young man and these
[00:48] experiences that you had and it was
[00:50] really excellent. Luigi, uh you're the
[00:53] one who put the film together. You
[00:55] figured it all out and first of all,
[00:57] what was the technology that you guys
[00:59] used to recreate everything you guys
[01:01] did?
[01:01] >> I just want to say there's there's about
[01:04] 10% AI in the film, but there's 90%
[01:08] Blender. And that's actually handmade
[01:10] CGI. So, everything you see is all
[01:14] handmade.
[01:16] And even the de-aging of Bob Lazar, we
[01:19] scanned Bob, we went over to his house,
[01:22] scanned his face, took a process of
[01:24] de-aging him through that, then creating
[01:27] a digital model of Bob in different
[01:30] ages, and then placing him in the
[01:33] environment. And then
[01:35] in some instances at the very end, we
[01:38] perfected or kind of put a bow on it
[01:41] with a little touch of AI, but the whole
[01:44] thing is handmade. So, the craft, the
[01:46] environment, the Papoose Lake, the the
[01:49] the facility, the equipment, and the
[01:51] people were all made. And some of the
[01:54] people are actually real actors that we
[01:55] put in there. So, it's not It's It's a
[01:58] There's One of the guys that is Barry in
[02:00] the film is a guy called Luis Martinez
[02:03] that's been working with me for the past
[02:04] 10 years and he laughs at it cuz he
[02:06] says, "I can't believe I'm Barry." You
[02:08] know, so Does he look anything like
[02:09] Barry? Actually, he does. He does.
[02:12] That's why we chose him. Yeah, yeah.
[02:14] Where is Barry The actual Barry now?
[02:17] I don't know, you know, I kind of
[02:19] thought at one point after all this
[02:21] happened, we would at least hear from
[02:24] one of those guys.
[02:25] But, uh I never heard from anybody after
[02:28] you know, after the the initial
[02:31] the release of all the information,
[02:33] yeah.
[02:34] It seems like Well, I don't know. If
[02:37] people are able to keep secrets for this
[02:39] long, it's got to be very difficult to
[02:41] just blurt it out. Like, if you know, if
[02:44] you're holding on to a secret for 20,
[02:46] 30, 40 years, you're
[02:49] It's like I guess these guys were
[02:51] lifers, though. Yeah. I mean, they spent
[02:53] most of their time there. They spent at
[02:55] least 2 weeks at a time and had 1 week
[02:57] off. So, they stayed at the base. I
[02:59] mean, these guys were hardcore.
[03:01] I had just come in on the project. You
[03:04] know, so um
[03:07] I don't know. I don't know what happened
[03:08] to him. I'd love to know.
[03:10] I suspect that Dennis Mariani, my
[03:12] supervisor, died. I've seen people track
[03:14] him down, you know, all the way to point
[03:16] to speaking to his family and they said,
[03:18] "Yeah, he had some classified job out in
[03:20] the desert or something." And they
[03:21] showed me his gravestone and stuff. So,
[03:24] you know, at least
[03:25] they were able to track him down, but
[03:27] I've never heard of any leads on Barry
[03:29] or Renee or anybody like that.
[03:31] What is it like seeing the recreation of
[03:35] it in a film? Cuz I mean, it essentially
[03:39] it was your
[03:43] direction, for lack of a better word,
[03:45] your description of it, you you telling
[03:48] them exactly every everything was laid
[03:50] out. And then once they recreated it,
[03:52] what is that feeling like when you watch
[03:54] it?
[03:56] Well, the final product is absolutely
[04:00] mind-blowing because as I've said to
[04:02] Luigi, it looks like you guys downloaded
[04:05] that out of my brain.
[04:07] I mean
[04:09] you know, you can describe something a
[04:10] hundred times and until you actually
[04:12] make a a picture, it doesn't become
[04:14] clear.
[04:16] But, uh you know, this took years. I
[04:18] think it was like five and a half years
[04:21] from when I first met Luigi and he said,
[04:24] "Yeah, I can do this." And um
[04:26] the quality kept improving to where he
[04:28] started showing me pictures and I went,
[04:30] "Jesus, that's That's really it. It's
[04:33] not really it. It's really it." And uh
[04:37] I mean, it it blew me away.
[04:40] Later on, he showed me a 3D environment
[04:43] where I could put goggles on and move
[04:44] around inside. I mean, that made the
[04:46] hair stand up on my arms. It was It was
[04:48] unbelievable. So, um
[04:51] I don't know if I could really describe
[04:53] how that made me feel, but it felt like
[04:55] I was teleported back there. And that's,
[04:58] you know, that's when really
[05:00] I developed an admiration for Luigi's
[05:02] talent. I said, you know, I'm behind
[05:04] this and uh flew out to Canada a couple
[05:07] times. I didn't have much to do with the
[05:08] film other than
[05:11] I guess a couple times going out there
[05:12] and going, "No, that's right. That's the
[05:14] wrong color. Move this here. Do that."
[05:16] And uh but those guys spent over 3 years
[05:19] working on it. And um
[05:22] you know, what they And they never
[05:24] showed me anything, you know, I'd speak
[05:26] to Luigi, you know, a couple times a
[05:28] month and you know, he'd always say,
[05:30] "You
[05:31] Oh my god, you won't believe this." I
[05:33] said, "Yeah,
[05:34] show me."
[05:35] Yeah, no, it's not It's not done yet.
[05:37] So, I really didn't get it to to see
[05:40] anything till close to the end, but when
[05:42] I did, um
[05:45] really, without trying to sound
[05:46] dramatic, it really put tears in my eyes
[05:49] going that it
[05:50] that's it. That's it. You You did it.
[05:52] Just stop. It's perfect. Why? So, I had
[05:55] the pleasure of watching the movie with
[05:56] you and sitting there with you where
[05:58] there was a bunch of times in the movie
[06:00] you're like
[06:02] Yeah, yeah.
[06:03] >> You could tell. Yeah. It is just like
[06:05] >> I could feel that place. I I could feel
[06:08] it watching that movie. It It It just It
[06:12] really freaks me out because
[06:14] as I've said before, it's not like what
[06:16] I saw. It's It's exactly what I saw. Um
[06:24] It's It's perfect. It's just like Luigi
[06:26] was at S-4 with a camera. So, um It's
[06:29] very
[06:29] >> It was. It's a It's a very unique
[06:31] documentary in that regard. And And
[06:33] watching it with you, seeing you
[06:35] experience this thing, and then me
[06:37] trying to imagine what it's like for
[06:40] you.
[06:42] You're this young scientist who gets
[06:45] brought in on this thing without much
[06:47] explanation, and then all of a sudden
[06:48] you're confronted by this craft. And you
[06:51] you know, the way it's broken down in
[06:53] the film and you get to actually see you
[06:57] viewing this thing and being in the
[06:58] presence of this thing for the first
[07:00] time. It's just I could just only
[07:03] imagine
[07:04] what that must have been like for you.
[07:07] And it's so weird to watch you watch it
[07:10] again and see your wheels spin. You're
[07:12] like, "What the happened [laughter]
[07:14] to my life, man? Right. What did they do
[07:17] to me? What did they
[07:19] What did they
[07:20] make me experience? Like, what the hell?
[07:25] Yeah, I
[07:26] I really can't fill in the blanks there.
[07:28] It's uh
[07:29] I I want to just say that there was a
[07:31] time when Bob got angry at me a lot cuz
[07:35] I wouldn't show him. And he was like,
[07:37] "Come on, show me." And I said, "It's
[07:39] not ready yet. I don't want to show you
[07:41] something." But, at a certain point, we
[07:43] had to.
[07:44] And Bob started remembering more stuff
[07:49] Yeah, yeah, that's true. Mhm. It It
[07:52] really made a big difference when he
[07:54] when he showed me some things and, you
[07:56] know, walking down the corridor here and
[07:58] turn, "Oh, stop. Wait, there's another
[08:00] door there." I mean, it was like I was
[08:02] going back into the facility and uh
[08:05] really brought I mean, actually seeing
[08:07] it again, uh really brought some things
[08:09] back that I that I had completely
[08:11] forgotten about. So, that
[08:14] you know. Well, what's really
[08:15] fascinating is
[08:17] for people that don't know your story,
[08:19] you came up with the story, you talked
[08:21] to George Knapp in Was it '89?
[08:24] '88. '88, '89, somewhere in there, yeah.
[08:27] So, late '80s, you essentially told the
[08:30] exact same story all these years. And
[08:34] then
[08:35] within the last, you know, 9, 10 years,
[08:40] we've started to get all these reports.
[08:43] There was the New York Times story,
[08:45] there was the GoFast video and the FLIR
[08:48] video, and all these videos that show a
[08:50] craft that's moving the way you
[08:53] described this sport model moving.
[08:56] Right. Which kind of freaked a lot of
[08:58] people out with the way it rotated and
[09:00] turned.
[09:00] >> Rotate Yeah, it does the belly roll,
[09:02] faces at the bottom towards where it's
[09:04] want to go, and then it it takes off and
[09:07] yeah. It's exactly how you described all
[09:10] those years ago, which is really
[09:13] crazy.
[09:15] Well, that's I mean, that's the way it
[09:17] was. But, it's just It's It's crazy
[09:20] because you had this story way, way, way
[09:23] back then and everybody's like, "This
[09:25] guy's just making things up. This is all
[09:27] cockamamie bullshit."
[09:29] And then you see those videos from these
[09:31] fighter jets and you're like, "Whoa.
[09:34] Wait a minute. This is It's moving the
[09:36] exact same way he described. It's doing
[09:37] what he described in 1989."
[09:41] Yeah.
[09:41] >> [snorts]
[09:42] >> Yeah.
[09:43] Um
[09:45] Time to take a drink. Cheers.
[09:46] >> [laughter]
[09:47] >> Cheers. Cuz it's so weird. I can't I
[09:49] mean, I've had so many conversations
[09:51] with people. And you know, one of the
[09:53] things that comes up is uh do you think
[09:55] Bob Lazar's telling the truth?
[09:58] And I say, "Look, I don't know. There's
[09:59] no way I can know, but he doesn't seem
[10:01] like he's lying. I've been around a lot
[10:03] of liars."
[10:04] >> Look, nobody can know unless you're
[10:06] there.
[10:07] You know, I'm the biggest skeptic of
[10:09] all. Although, if you look at Wikipedia,
[10:11] it says I'm a conspiracy
[10:13] theorist or something.
[10:14] >> Yeah, conspiracy theorist. I think it
[10:15] says I'm a far-right podcaster. Yeah,
[10:17] all right. I mean,
[10:18] >> [laughter]
[10:19] >> yeah, it's crazy. But,
[10:21] dog, I lost my train of thought
[10:23] now.
[10:23] Well, they that that if if you if like
[10:27] basically are you a conspiracy theorist?
[10:29] No, you don't even look at this stuff.
[10:30] >> Well, you've had if you have a lie, you
[10:33] have one lie. It's amazing cuz you've
[10:36] told the same one for all these years.
[10:38] >> It's a pretty detailed lie. It's also
[10:40] not normal. Like, normally when people
[10:43] lie, they get bored with the same lie
[10:45] and then they come up with another lie
[10:47] and then there's some other story.
[10:48] There's some You catch them. Eventually,
[10:50] you catch them. There's some cockamamie
[10:52] new thing that they come up with and
[10:54] it's the type of people that are that
[10:56] deceptive. I mean, it's just it doesn't
[10:58] make sense. It doesn't fit the standard
[11:00] model of someone
[11:02] >> Well, there are other people involved
[11:03] with it. I mean, uh you know, this is
[11:05] where the first time Gene Huff finally
[11:08] is on film, you know, cuz when I had the
[11:10] you know, the test flight information,
[11:13] um it was one of the not one of the was
[11:16] the first person I told about that and
[11:18] uh you know, we were all able to go out
[11:20] and and see it and so everybody knew
[11:23] that I wasn't crazy.
[11:25] Um
[11:26] it was And then also all the
[11:28] confirmation that you were being
[11:31] with. That you know, when you're in the
[11:32] gym, they would show up and open up your
[11:35] lock car doors and open up your trunk
[11:37] and leave it there so you'd go out there
[11:38] and see it.
[11:39] They'd go to your house when you weren't
[11:41] there. Yeah, they were even Right, they
[11:44] were even following George Knapp and and
[11:46] uh
[11:47] I mean, all of us. Anybody that had
[11:49] anything to do with it at that time. Uh
[11:51] they were keeping eyes on. It was uh Not
[11:54] just eyes, but a lot of intimidation
[11:55] tactics. Just letting you know
[11:58] letting you know that they could touch
[11:59] you. Yeah.
[12:01] To I I've really worked for decades to
[12:03] push this out of my mind. So, it's
[12:04] always tough to bring it back, you know,
[12:07] and and talk about it. And it's Yeah,
[12:09] although it might be funny now, it
[12:11] wasn't funny then at all. Um it was a
[12:14] really stressful time.
[12:16] And still
[12:17] is a very stressful thing for me. I know
[12:19] it's so many years ago, but do you
[12:22] remember the thought that came in your
[12:25] mind when you realized that it wasn't
[12:28] ours?
[12:31] Do I remember the thought? Do you
[12:32] remember the experience? Yeah, I
[12:35] remember I remember the feeling.
[12:36] >> Of recognize cuz initially, you saw the
[12:39] American flag sticking out.
[12:40] >> saw the American flag when I first went
[12:42] in it the first time I went in through
[12:45] the hangar door instead of around the
[12:46] back, um
[12:49] you know, I slid my hand across it, saw
[12:50] the American flag and I thought, "Oh my
[12:52] god, you know, this explains the UFO
[12:55] nuts, you know?" Um It's ours. Yeah,
[12:58] this is ours. This is a new top secret
[13:00] fighter. We can't with a new propulsion
[13:02] system and uh
[13:04] you know, it it explains everything
[13:06] because I never believed in flying
[13:07] saucers. I thought people were nuts.
[13:10] Um
[13:12] But, when they started reviewing
[13:13] everything with me, they were trying I
[13:16] was trying to replace somebody or they
[13:18] were trying to use me to replace
[13:20] somebody as quick as possible.
[13:22] And um
[13:24] they had two directives.
[13:27] One was to
[13:28] Directive one was to duplicate the
[13:30] technology with available material at
[13:32] any cost, which is exact verbatim what
[13:35] it was, and directive two was to be able
[13:39] to disable this technology at a distance
[13:42] at any cost.
[13:44] And
[13:46] you know, once you start thinking about
[13:47] that,
[13:49] Wait, don't you guys know how the thing
[13:50] you built worked? And it's kind of like
[13:53] they left that out. That this [laughter]
[13:56] this By the way, this isn't ours. And
[13:58] Barry is the guy that filled me in
[14:00] going, "No, no, no. This is an alien
[14:03] craft and
[14:05] we need to figure out how this works.
[14:08] Look at the technology here. I mean,
[14:10] this is decades, light years ahead of
[14:13] where we are.
[14:14] And uh
[14:16] I I it it it was a
[14:19] it was a shock, really, to me. I
[14:22] remember going home that night and just
[14:25] laying in bed and reviewing everything
[14:27] that everybody said that day. And uh
[14:32] I really don't remember
[14:34] how I felt
[14:36] the following days, but I it was just a
[14:38] different It was just a different
[14:41] feeling. Like the world just changed.
[14:43] >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it was
[14:46] I don't know. I really can't put it into
[14:48] words. Well, I couldn't imagine. I
[14:50] couldn't imagine what that experience is
[14:51] like. And it's also very strange that
[14:53] they would bring you in and not
[14:55] specifically state to you that this is
[14:58] not ours.
[14:59] They just bring you in and just give you
[15:02] a directive. This is your what you were
[15:04] trying to accomplish. Well, they gave me
[15:06] the they gave me a bunch of briefings.
[15:07] Everything was moving at a very fast
[15:10] pace and I don't know why. Um
[15:12] I think I mentioned in the movie
[15:14] uh
[15:15] right prior to I got there, there
[15:18] there were Russians involved in it. You
[15:20] know, from what I can ascertain, there
[15:22] was an exchange of information and then
[15:25] we discovered something, something of
[15:27] great importance. And of of course,
[15:30] kicked the Russians out and just held
[15:32] onto that information ourselves. And uh
[15:36] there was kind of a knowledge vacuum
[15:38] there. There was also an accident and I
[15:41] was told I was replacing someone
[15:43] uh
[15:45] that was injured. I believe he actually
[15:47] died. Um There's no record of who this
[15:50] person was or has anybody ever tried to
[15:52] figure out it out?
[15:53] >> I don't know. I don't have any names. I
[15:55] just know that Barry told me, you know,
[15:57] I'm replacing somebody that he used to
[15:58] work with and he was without a lab
[16:01] partner for a while. So, when I came in
[16:03] there, um How long's a while?
[16:06] I don't know, but I mean, that brings up
[16:08] a good point.
[16:10] First of all, we're dealing with alien
[16:13] or another civilization technology,
[16:15] whether it, you know, it's from another
[16:17] dimension, another time, another planet.
[16:20] I mean, who really knows? Um
[16:23] So,
[16:26] I'll eventually get to answer the
[16:27] question here, but uh
[16:29] wouldn't you think this place would be
[16:31] more like the lunar receiving lab where
[16:33] everything is white? You know, so you
[16:35] can see a speck of dust. There's
[16:38] everything is sterile.
[16:40] People are being extremely careful with
[16:42] what they're doing, but you're not
[16:44] seeing that.
[16:45] This is in now something akin to an
[16:48] aircraft hangar in the middle of the
[16:50] desert. There's dust on everything.
[16:53] People are taking everything
[16:54] nonchalantly. There's a There's a
[16:57] freaking poster about the thing, you
[17:00] know, a there here poster there. Um
[17:02] Thank you, Luigi, for getting me that.
[17:04] We got to figure out a place for that.
[17:06] We'll put it in here somewhere. It's
[17:07] awesome. I mean, but but I mean, they
[17:09] went to the trouble of making a poster.
[17:10] They actually I think right here. That's
[17:12] a good place.
[17:13] >> That right there. That's a good spot
[17:14] right there. Um but they uh I mean, they
[17:17] actually cut one of the amplifiers out
[17:19] of the craft. So, that my point is
[17:21] >> This is in the film as well. You could
[17:22] see.
[17:23] >> Yeah, but my my point is it's so
[17:25] nonchalant
[17:27] at this point. When they first had it,
[17:30] it had to be at that level. And they
[17:33] became so used to it,
[17:36] so familiar with it
[17:38] that, you know, to them it just became
[17:41] like another
[17:43] you know, fighter aircraft or something
[17:45] from another country. So, it's uh
[17:48] It must have been there a long time as
[17:51] what my point is.
[17:53] Because Look, as soon as you have
[17:55] something that unique,
[18:00] you don't let it just sit there in a
[18:02] hangar and be exposed to the environment
[18:05] and have security people walking by and
[18:07] people touching it. I mean, it's in an
[18:09] isolated, sealed, secure environment and
[18:13] they were past that. So, I think it had
[18:16] been there for a decade or decades.
[18:19] A long time. And these guys were
[18:22] intimately familiar with it, not afraid
[18:24] of it, you know, and
[18:26] knew what was going on. So, they
[18:28] essentially had gotten just completely
[18:29] acclimated to the fact that this craft
[18:31] exists, that it was there, and there had
[18:34] been relatively little progress as far
[18:37] as figuring it out and figuring out what
[18:40] it does and how to recreate it. So, it
[18:42] just kind of sat there. And so, I think
[18:45] they were making very little progress
[18:47] and I think they kept going over the
[18:49] same road again and again and they
[18:52] probably had other experts there and
[18:55] just didn't and I think the reason I got
[18:57] hired is cuz I was a guy out in left
[19:00] field that didn't necessarily follow
[19:02] what was going on. I mean, the biggest
[19:04] distractors in the
[19:06] in in
[19:08] you know,
[19:09] to me, anyway, in the story, um are
[19:13] other scientists, other physicists
[19:15] going, "Well, they would have hired me
[19:17] because I'm the top guy in the field."
[19:18] Yeah, you you probably are, but I think
[19:21] they hired plenty of you guys and you
[19:23] just kept going down the same road and
[19:25] didn't do anything. I think they were
[19:26] looking for somebody that just would
[19:28] have some radical idea and just to push
[19:31] the,
[19:31] you know, the project forward because
[19:33] everything had stalled when I got there.
[19:35] And it was I think they were just in a
[19:38] desperate move to make some progress.
[19:40] One of the things you talked about in
[19:41] the first podcast that I think is really
[19:43] important is that the only way for
[19:45] science to really progress is that
[19:48] these various
[19:51] scientists have to be able to
[19:53] communicate and you have to be able to
[19:55] share ideas and you have to be able to
[19:57] collaborate but that's not how this was
[20:00] run because it was so top secret
[20:02] everything was compartmentalized.
[20:04] Like the metallurgist weren't talking to
[20:06] the propulsion people who weren't
[20:08] talking to if there were biologics
[20:11] experts like everybody was
[20:13] >> Super frustrating because I I think I I
[20:16] don't remember exactly where that
[20:18] started again it's 40 years ago but I
[20:20] think it started with uh
[20:23] with the seats
[20:25] and uh no it start it started with
[20:27] actual skin of the craft because
[20:29] everything looked like it was made from
[20:30] the same material
[20:32] and I wanted some information
[20:35] um
[20:36] about you know the skin the
[20:38] superstructure of the craft and they
[20:40] said no that's that's restricted what's
[20:42] you know we we need a reason for you to
[20:45] I I just want to see
[20:47] if everything is exactly the same
[20:49] material and what I call the seats in
[20:51] the craft I still don't know if they
[20:53] were the seats but they might be I think
[20:56] it'd be hilarious if they were actually
[20:57] something else um
[21:00] but I wanted some information on those
[21:02] and that was restricted information too
[21:04] there were other groups working on that
[21:05] so they compartmentalized stuff so much
[21:08] there was no exchange of information
[21:10] between any groups I mean you could
[21:12] submit a written response that your
[21:16] supervisor in my case Dennis would have
[21:17] to carry over and they would have to
[21:19] approve and you know you'd get a two or
[21:22] three line response from
[21:24] you know the other group but it's it's
[21:26] just that's not how science works
[21:28] science works on the free exchange of
[21:30] information and it they they were just
[21:34] killing themselves with security and it
[21:38] would it was really frustrating it was
[21:40] terribly frustrating. So was this a
[21:43] function of security people people that
[21:45] are concentrating on talk top secret
[21:47] that don't truly understand how
[21:49] collaborative science works?
[21:51] >> that's it right there you can stop right
[21:53] there they had no idea how that works.
[21:55] >> Because it stands to reason that
[21:57] whatever that thing was made out of
[22:01] probably in some way interacts with the
[22:05] propulsion system and whatever controls
[22:08] that are in it that this material has to
[22:12] be particularly unique. Exactly that's
[22:15] exactly my point and I suspected the
[22:18] material was an electric. You know what
[22:20] an electric is?
[22:21] >> No. Okay you know like a magnet
[22:24] a permanent magnet is like
[22:27] you know it's a magnet it's forever it's
[22:29] a magnet it has a magnetic field an
[22:32] electric is a material that has a
[22:35] permanent static field to it.
[22:38] A static electric field to it and
[22:41] I strongly suspected that's that the
[22:45] craft was made out of an electric and I
[22:47] was not because again that's the
[22:50] material science guys I was not allowed
[22:52] to connect that to but
[22:55] that's so important to connect it to the
[22:58] propulsion system and how the propulsion
[23:00] system uh interacts with the amplifier
[23:03] of the emitters and I just I
[23:05] I wasn't allowed you know the
[23:07] information I needed so it was uh
[23:12] I don't know it it it was self-defeating
[23:15] is what it was.
[23:16] >> It seems like they were treating it like
[23:18] a fighter jet or automobile like in an
[23:21] automobile you have the outer area the
[23:25] shell of the car you have the doors the
[23:28] skins the hood the roof all that stuff
[23:31] which is meant but then you have the
[23:32] propulsion system which is the engine
[23:34] and the transmission and the tires and
[23:36] the wheels and the suspension
[23:38] but they're all not connected they're
[23:41] connected cuz they're bolted together
[23:43] but they have different functions I
[23:45] think the idea the concept at least is
[23:48] as I'm gathering from you is that this
[23:50] thing all worked as a cohesive unit.
[23:53] >> Right with no physical connection
[23:56] between
[23:57] you know between the subsystems.
[24:00] And all of it made out of the same
[24:02] material.
[24:04] At least on the outside at least on the
[24:06] outside all made of the same material
[24:08] and the other crafts all had the same
[24:12] power plant in them.
[24:13] So that brings to mind you know like uh
[24:17] like a GM plant that makes a car with a
[24:20] Chevy 350 and makes you know a dozen
[24:23] different models to it.
[24:24] >> Right. So that makes you think about boy
[24:27] is there a a factory making these things
[24:30] and
[24:32] you know your brain can just wander off
[24:34] in directions but I tried to stick with
[24:36] just the technology. Um
[24:39] Did you know who the metallurgist were?
[24:42] The people that were
[24:42] >> saw I saw them you know I know them and
[24:45] Barry we'd go to the lunch room Barry
[24:47] would point them out you know And you
[24:49] weren't allowed to communicate with them
[24:50] at all? Oh hell no you have a a lab
[24:53] partner which might in in uh
[24:56] my case it was Barry and you're you have
[24:59] you're allowed to talk to your lab
[25:00] partner
[25:01] but you can't talk to any other group
[25:04] that has to go through a written request
[25:06] has to go to your um supervisor and
[25:09] he'll bring it over to them and they'll
[25:11] bring it back and so on and so forth but
[25:14] uh
[25:14] it's it's ridiculous that
[25:16] that that it slows down any progress you
[25:19] might be making.
[25:21] Which is why they were probably stalled
[25:22] out for decades.
[25:23] >> Yeah. Did you ever expressly
[25:28] communicate to them that you
[25:32] you theorized at least that this all
[25:34] could be connected that there's there's
[25:36] something about the way the metal works
[25:39] Oh we all knew that.
[25:41] We all knew that.
[25:43] Because we'd get requests from other
[25:45] you know from other groups and you could
[25:47] tell they're desperate just like we are
[25:51] and and and fighting against the system.
[25:53] >> What kind of requests would you get?
[25:55] Just exactly what we found out you know
[25:58] what where is the energy being
[26:00] transferred here if the reactor fires up
[26:03] is there a field present around it or is
[26:06] the field just absorbed into the emitter
[26:09] and you can touch the
[26:11] you know reactor itself and just little
[26:14] things like that you know if uh
[26:18] and actually that that was an important
[26:19] thing when the reactor's operating
[26:23] is it perfectly tuned the emitter to
[26:26] where it removes all the energy from the
[26:28] reactor and pushes it out the bottom and
[26:30] the answer to that was no I remember
[26:32] that as a specific request from you know
[26:34] from one of the groups
[26:36] the metallurgy group is the one that we
[26:38] really wanted to hear from.
[26:40] Uh
[26:42] and some of the I didn't I don't even
[26:43] know what some of the other groups were.
[26:46] But How many groups were there? I
[26:48] [snorts and clears throat] I don't know.
[26:50] There were only 22 people there total
[26:52] including myself.
[26:54] So um
[26:57] I I would like for you to tell Joe one
[27:00] of the things that also interested me
[27:02] cuz I built the craft is how the
[27:04] waveguide worked with the ceiling in in
[27:07] interior and how it blended
[27:09] if you can explain there was no
[27:10] telescopic
[27:12] >> well this is why I we wanted to talk to
[27:14] the metallurgist people. The uh
[27:17] the reactor that sits on the bottom of
[27:19] the craft has a little dome over it
[27:22] and there's something that looks like a
[27:23] pipe
[27:24] that's slight you can lift it up and
[27:27] take the reactor out put the reactor in
[27:30] and lift it down but you know like a
[27:33] antenna works on an old walkie-talkie it
[27:36] has different sections
[27:38] There it is there's from the video.
[27:40] There it is yeah yeah okay
[27:42] um
[27:44] you can retract the pipe but there's no
[27:46] sections and it doesn't get any thicker.
[27:51] It just becomes smaller and if you look
[27:54] underneath
[27:56] um where the emitters hang down
[27:58] um
[27:59] they turn
[28:02] it
[28:02] and it it it doesn't buckle it's it's a
[28:05] magical material this is
[28:09] this is the basis of the craft is really
[28:11] the material that it's made of it's a
[28:14] it's amazing the way it works.
[28:17] It just you can push it into a small
[28:19] volume
[28:21] and it doesn't change at all it doesn't
[28:24] it doesn't get bigger physically
[28:26] it's um
[28:28] I don't really know how to describe
[28:29] >> lifting the pipe up and down but it's
[28:31] not going anywhere.
[28:33] >> you had a big pipe
[28:34] and you push it together it has to get
[28:37] thicker Right. because the material has
[28:39] to go somewhere this doesn't.
[28:43] Okay it stays in exactly the same
[28:46] dimensions it just becomes smaller.
[28:49] How? Well
[28:51] >> couldn't talk to the metallurgist so you
[28:53] had no idea.
[28:53] >> yeah but those guys knew how. They did
[28:55] know how. I well Well they know it did
[28:58] it. They know it they know it did it and
[29:00] that's their job so I imagine they have
[29:02] more information than I did.
[29:04] Um
[29:06] but that was fascinating.
[29:08] It really was. And the uh
[29:11] the waveguides that hold the emitters
[29:13] they come down and the emitters can turn
[29:15] and bend and the pipes bend and nothing
[29:18] changes in them.
[29:20] It's
[29:22] and there's no wires or anything to make
[29:27] the pipe bend
[29:29] um
[29:32] I'm I'm trying to relate it to something
[29:34] but I can't think of anything to relate
[29:36] it to.
[29:38] Well one thing that you said that I I
[29:39] also thought was fascinating there's no
[29:41] seams so everything looks like it's 3D
[29:43] printed.
[29:44] >> Again right it comes down to the
[29:45] material. Which at the time 3D printers
[29:48] weren't real, right? They Yeah, at the
[29:50] time that really confused me. I said,
[29:53] "How did they build this?" It must have
[29:54] been built
[29:56] out of wax or something and then melted.
[29:59] Um cuz you can't build anything without
[30:01] seams. And then 3D printing came into
[30:03] existence and you know, you can you
[30:05] could build stuff from layers up. Um
[30:09] That made sense.
[30:11] I know, some sort of 3D printer or they
[30:13] grew it uh
[30:15] you know, a in some
[30:18] It of course is not a crystal in
[30:20] fashion, but um
[30:24] I I don't know how that was fabricated,
[30:26] but it was fabricated different than
[30:27] anything that we have. I don't even
[30:29] think it was 3D printed.
[30:31] And so you never got any inkling or any
[30:35] understanding of what the metal was,
[30:38] what what what kind of an alloy, what it
[30:40] consisted of?
[30:43] All I can say it was cold to the touch
[30:45] cuz the you know, when I when I touched
[30:47] it, but um
[30:48] I can't say it was a if it was a ceramic
[30:51] or I say it was metal cuz it was cold.
[30:54] Um Cuz it looks like metal. And this is
[30:57] >> Yeah, it looks like metal. Does that
[30:58] this is the Designs by Perry um
[31:01] version of it. Does that How much does
[31:03] that look like it? No, that's 100%.
[31:05] That's it.
[31:06] Yeah, that's that's
[31:07] >> to have the the first ripple is supposed
[31:10] to be black.
[31:10] >> right. See? Yeah.
[31:13] So, Luigi has gone over this so many
[31:16] times. Yeah.
[31:17] >> uh
[31:18] the There's an insulator ring in there.
[31:19] Jimmy, show what it looks like in the
[31:21] film. If you could show one of the
[31:23] images. I don't know.
[31:24] I was pulling them off the trailer and I
[31:25] don't
[31:26] They might not They've been holding that
[31:27] back
[31:28] Yeah, on the trailer there's some shots.
[31:31] >> Yeah, there's there's a ring around it
[31:32] and we measured the voltage on the craft
[31:35] and there was a a high voltage on it. Um
[31:39] And above that ring, there is not
[31:42] >> not a good shot. There's probably a
[31:45] This is the original trailer. It's the
[31:47] new trailer that would actually [snorts]
[31:49] Yeah, that one there.
[31:51] And you'll get to see it right
[31:55] there.
[31:57] Actually, right after this.
[31:59] Well, it's actually before this, I
[32:01] believe.
[32:02] You're going to see the craft. And if
[32:05] you see there's a black Right, there's
[32:07] like a black line. Mhm. It's the first
[32:10] ripple that's actually not metal.
[32:13] Yeah, we call that the Yeah, there it
[32:14] is. That's a good shot. We call We call
[32:17] that the insulator ring because below
[32:19] that there's a high voltage present on
[32:21] the craft all the time and above that,
[32:25] there isn't.
[32:26] Um
[32:28] I would imagine that
[32:30] your life has like two completely
[32:32] different chapters. It's before this and
[32:36] after this.
[32:37] Whereas like once you see it,
[32:40] the whole rest of your life is now going
[32:42] to be very different. And you are you
[32:45] are in in its presence for how long did
[32:47] you work there for?
[32:49] I don't know, maybe 6 months or so. So,
[32:51] for 6 months,
[32:53] you're around this thing.
[32:55] And I would imagine that's to occupy
[32:57] your thoughts 24 hours a day.
[32:59] Well, at the time it did, for sure. It's
[33:02] actually three stages to the life. It's
[33:04] before it, during, and after it.
[33:08] Before it was just my life, during was
[33:10] when it happened, and then the after
[33:13] part of my life is almost trying to
[33:14] dismiss it, you know, to just go on.
[33:18] Yeah, you didn't talk about it for a
[33:19] long time. I mean, you did the George
[33:22] Knapp interviews, you talked about it a
[33:23] little, you made some videos explaining
[33:25] things and how things worked.
[33:27] >> No, I don't I don't really like public
[33:28] attention and uh I don't really like
[33:32] doing interviews.
[33:33] Um
[33:35] As [snorts] you probably know.
[33:36] >> [laughter]
[33:39] >> You know, but um
[33:41] I know there's people that thrive on
[33:42] that stuff, but you know, uh
[33:46] it
[33:47] I felt privileged to be part of the
[33:49] project, but it left me with an
[33:51] insatiable appetite. Oh my god, I want
[33:54] to know where it's gone. Like even when
[33:57] I was there in the '80s, they were
[33:59] talking about moving the project at that
[34:02] time.
[34:03] So,
[34:04] um
[34:06] I really I I'm dying to know, is it
[34:09] still there? Has it moved on Did they
[34:12] split it up and move it to other places?
[34:15] Um
[34:16] Yeah, I remember Barry talking about
[34:18] moving it to
[34:19] the South Pacific like in Kwajalein or
[34:21] something, but they said the expenses
[34:23] were so great, they couldn't do that,
[34:25] but they wanted to be from everybody.
[34:27] And the they hated the fact that it was
[34:30] right alongside the highway in Nevada,
[34:33] you know, by south of Area 51.
[34:36] Uh but that's the best place they had at
[34:38] the time and the most affordable.
[34:40] And of course now with you know, budgets
[34:43] being so tight,
[34:45] who knows where it is. Who knows if
[34:47] budgets are tight for this, though.
[34:49] Yeah, that that's true. That's true. I
[34:51] mean, they did say at whatever expense,
[34:54] figure this out. Yeah, they were serious
[34:56] about that. We don't really care what it
[34:58] was.
[34:59] >> It's like the original Apollo program.
[35:01] You know, back in the Apollo program, if
[35:03] they needed parts
[35:06] and if somebody had something ordered
[35:07] UPS or through the mail or whatever,
[35:09] they had the authority to stop that
[35:11] shipment to that other person and take
[35:14] their stuff if they needed it. And you
[35:16] know, they had an unlimited budget. I
[35:17] mean, if you're working like that, you
[35:19] could do anything.
[35:21] And uh Or at least anything that's
[35:24] currently possible with today's
[35:25] technology. There you go. Which therein
[35:28] lies the problem is that they're dealing
[35:29] with something that's not possible with
[35:32] like you couldn't build it from scratch
[35:34] with American technology in 1989.
[35:38] No, but that's what they wanted to do.
[35:42] And really thinking about that now, I'm
[35:45] not sure
[35:46] I'm not [laughter] exactly sure these
[35:48] guys should be allowed to do that. This
[35:51] is really powerful technology and the
[35:53] world has really changed. I mean, we
[35:56] have a lot of crazy people doing stuff
[35:58] now and nonsense
[36:02] transmits through the population at the
[36:03] speed of light.
[36:05] And uh
[36:07] you know, I don't know. This can be a
[36:09] very powerful world-conquering
[36:12] technology
[36:13] and
[36:15] Look, for 40 years, I think I've said
[36:17] this before, for 40 years, all the
[36:19] people in control of this information
[36:21] have all agreed to keep it quiet. And
[36:24] these aren't idiots.
[36:27] These aren't idiots for 40 years. You
[36:28] have a line of people that all have
[36:31] agreed, "No, let's not say anything. No,
[36:34] let's not say anything. No, let's not
[36:35] say anything." There has to be a reason
[36:37] why.
[36:40] And if they all agreed to that,
[36:43] maybe I'm the
[36:46] >> [laughter]
[36:47] >> No, really. Maybe they're right and
[36:50] Maybe you would have figured that out if
[36:52] you kept working for them. Yeah, I don't
[36:54] know, but I'm increasingly thinking
[36:56] I'm the one that made the mistake. Maybe
[36:59] this is supposed to be
[37:01] just kept quiet.
[37:03] Yeah, but that doesn't ring true.
[37:06] Cuz cuz I don't think it's ever healthy
[37:09] if small groups of individuals have
[37:13] information that would change our
[37:15] understanding of where we are.
[37:17] >> Yeah, there's that. There's that.
[37:19] >> It's I don't think they
[37:20] I don't think they deserve it. I don't
[37:22] think it's right. I don't think it makes
[37:23] any sense. I think you have an
[37:25] obligation to
[37:27] >> But really think about it. What if it's
[37:28] something that's really dramatic?
[37:32] Like how so? Like what do you think
[37:33] would be like?
[37:35] I don't know. May maybe I mean, what if
[37:37] it's I'm not saying this is what it is,
[37:40] but I mean, what if it's like
[37:43] you know, like like we raise cows out in
[37:46] a field and just feed them grass and
[37:48] they're just going to be food.
[37:50] What if it's something like that? What
[37:52] if we're just like, you know, a a
[37:53] population of creatures that are just to
[37:56] be consumed in some way?
[38:00] I don't know if we're to be consumed,
[38:02] but I do think we are
[38:04] >> Not physically consumed like eaten, but
[38:06] I mean
[38:07] >> I think we have a task.
[38:09] And
[38:10] I'm uh more and more convinced as time
[38:13] goes on that we were engineered.
[38:16] I don't think we came about as a normal
[38:19] evolutionary process like all the other
[38:20] animals.
[38:21] >> I agree with that. I I really agree with
[38:23] that, too. There's a lot of people that
[38:24] think that. It just doesn't make sense
[38:27] objectively. I mean, without seeming
[38:29] like a cook
[38:31] or someone who buys into conspiracy
[38:32] theories, if you just look at all the
[38:34] other biology on Earth, why is one so
[38:39] uniquely able to manipulate its
[38:41] environment, communicate instantaneously
[38:44] at distance, do
[38:46] can't really even exist in its
[38:48] environment in most places that it lives
[38:50] without clothes and shelter. We're a
[38:53] weird animal.
[38:54] We're we're very strange. Like we don't
[38:56] seem to have normally adapted to our
[38:59] environment with the way we've
[39:01] completely controlled our environment
[39:04] with air conditioning and electricity
[39:07] and electronics and flight and travel.
[39:10] We're so beyond everything else that
[39:13] evolved. Whereas every other animal,
[39:16] predator or prey, plant eater or meat
[39:19] eater, all seems to cohesively exist
[39:23] inside of its ecosystem. And then you
[39:25] have us, which is like Yeah, yeah.
[39:28] almost like an invasive species. Like
[39:31] invasive species destroy ecosystems like
[39:34] because they don't belong there. Mhm.
[39:35] Well, that's kind of what we do. Like we
[39:37] suck all the fish out of the ocean, we
[39:39] pollute the rivers with our technology,
[39:42] we, you know, mess up underground water
[39:44] systems with fracking and drill we we're
[39:47] like an invasive species in a lot of
[39:50] ways. Yeah.
[39:52] Yeah. We're really weird.
[39:54] >> can't argue with that at all.
[39:56] Yeah, this Tim Burchett thing. Um so Tim
[39:59] Burchett has recently been talking about
[40:01] this and the he can't talk about it
[40:04] because it's classified, but he said
[40:06] you'd be up at night with the things
[40:08] that I've seen
[40:09] if the things that I've seen have
[40:10] released.
[40:13] Yeah.
[40:14] He said we just needed to close disclose
[40:16] it all. I'm sick of it.
[40:18] Uh I well I was briefed and I will tell
[40:20] you this. I was briefed last week on an
[40:22] issue or excuse me 2 weeks ago and it
[40:24] would have set the earth on this country
[40:26] would have become unglued. I think if
[40:29] they would have heard all that I heard.
[40:31] Well, this is what I was talking about.
[40:33] If you know,
[40:35] it's not like there's a bunch of space
[40:37] brothers coming down going, "Oh, look
[40:39] what we discovered, you know, here I
[40:41] have some information and you know, uh
[40:44] what if it's not that? What if all the
[40:46] information is bad?"
[40:49] But what would be bad? Like have you
[40:50] ever thought about this? Tried to like
[40:52] play it out to its natural conclusion?
[40:54] Like what do you think the scenarios
[40:55] could be that's bad? I don't know.
[40:57] Everything that we're
[40:59] we uh
[41:00] Look, we view ourselves at the top of
[41:02] the food chain.
[41:04] What if we're not anywhere near there? I
[41:07] don't think we are. Okay, what if we're
[41:09] just consumables?
[41:11] Well, I don't know if like chimpanzees
[41:13] are consumables, right? They're not at
[41:15] the top of the food chain either, right?
[41:17] But No, but there's
[41:19] I I would consider them substantially
[41:22] lower than we are. Like my
[41:25] my good friend that I John Lear who had
[41:28] a bunch of crazy thoughts. I mean he
[41:30] used to come over and tell us that uh
[41:35] you know, on the moon there was a soul
[41:36] sucker.
[41:38] And when you
[41:39] >> [laughter]
[41:39] >> He did. He said this. You better give me
[41:41] that bottle.
[41:45] I want to drink before you explain this
[41:47] one.
[41:48] Um
[41:49] >> Oh boy.
[41:50] A soul sucker. Yeah.
[41:52] >> John Lear was a eccentric individual.
[41:54] I'm kind of sad I never met him.
[41:57] Man, he he would
[41:58] >> supporting evidence? He was a What?
[42:01] Terence McKenna talking about the moon
[42:03] being a soul catcher. Yeah, yeah. No,
[42:05] and he'd give me pictures of these giant
[42:08] antennas on the moon and
[42:09] >> [clears throat]
[42:10] >> um in fact, I'll tell you a story. He um
[42:14] uh you know, he was an accomplished
[42:16] pilot, had many world records and and
[42:19] things of that, you know, um
[42:21] part of the Lear family
[42:23] that
[42:24] his father invented autopilot, the
[42:26] eight-track tape, all kinds of stuff.
[42:28] And uh
[42:30] but he John Lear was a loose cannon.
[42:33] At the time
[42:34] uh
[42:37] he'd fly from Las Vegas and uh
[42:41] you know, shuttle L-1011s which are
[42:43] giant planes back and forth and he'd say
[42:47] uh
[42:48] you know, be kind of lonely. He goes,
[42:50] "Hey, you want to go to Minneapolis
[42:51] tonight?" He'd call me like at 9:00 at
[42:53] night and say, "Well, no, not really.
[42:56] Come on. Come on, fly with me." He'd
[42:58] say, "Just put on a suit and you know,
[43:01] come to so-and-so." And I'd go to
[43:03] McCarran Airport and you know, go there.
[43:05] And uh yeah, I'm going to tell everybody
[43:08] you're
[43:08] you know, an inspector from the FAA and
[43:11] I'm like, "Okay,
[43:12] great." You know, and I'd
[43:14] get on the plane and he'd say, you know,
[43:16] "Just act like you're you're going to
[43:17] kick everyone's ass." So I'd
[43:19] >> [laughter]
[43:20] >> go on there and I'd sit in the they pull
[43:22] down a jump seat behind the plane and
[43:24] I'd just sit there looking at everybody
[43:26] and
[43:28] God, all this stuff is so illegal. And
[43:30] um
[43:31] you know, get on there and and fly and
[43:34] you know, John would take and the
[43:36] L-1011 was a
[43:38] pretty advanced plane at the time. This
[43:40] was in the '80s.
[43:41] And you know, John would be smoking his
[43:43] pipe, he'd take off, he'd put his feet
[43:45] up and smoke his pipe and he'd fall
[43:49] asleep. And I'd just be, you know,
[43:51] hanging out there and you know, before
[43:53] the plane would land, he'd just, you
[43:56] know, wake up and you know, be smoking
[43:59] his pipe and the you know, plane would
[44:00] land itself. At the time my wife was
[44:03] taking flying lessons and um
[44:07] he said, "Yeah, yeah, you know, bring
[44:08] her up here and um
[44:12] I think they had an engineer also on
[44:15] another panel. I don't I don't quite
[44:17] remember, but I was there with my wife,
[44:19] there were people on board and he he'd
[44:22] say "Hey, come on here and take the
[44:24] wheel." And he'd get the captain of the
[44:26] plane with
[44:28] you know, I think my wife was in her 20s
[44:30] at the time and just sit her down and
[44:32] say, "Yeah, hold on to it and you know,
[44:35] just keep correcting." And he'd just let
[44:37] her fly the plane which is insane. And
[44:42] you know, the co-pilot would just look
[44:44] over and I remember looking over at I
[44:47] think the engineer that looked at the
[44:48] gauges and he just put his head down
[44:51] >> [laughter]
[44:51] >> and pretended like nothing was
[44:52] happening. And um
[44:55] that was just one time. Another time he
[44:57] was fly uh
[45:00] ferrying an L-1011
[45:02] going by Roswell. At the time I was
[45:04] living in New Mexico
[45:06] and they called him and told him he
[45:09] wasn't getting paid.
[45:12] That the company was, you know,
[45:14] defaulted or something like that.
[45:17] And
[45:18] he was coming up to New Mexico and
[45:20] landed at the Roswell just took the
[45:22] plane and landed at the Roswell Airport
[45:25] this the whole 1011 got off walked out
[45:30] walked up to a bus station, gave me a
[45:32] call on the the payphone and said, "Hey
[45:34] Bob, I'm coming over."
[45:36] Okay, you know, you're in New Mexico.
[45:39] Yeah. And he drove up
[45:41] taxi would drop him off at the house,
[45:43] he'd walk he [laughter] he walked in he
[45:45] went, "Boy, I'm tired." And he just laid
[45:48] down on the couch, you know, and go to
[45:50] sleep and I said,
[45:51] "What are you doing here? What's going
[45:53] on?" "Oh, I just dropped the plane off.
[45:54] They're not paying me and you know, that
[45:56] that's it." But I mean John Lear was
[45:58] such like a loose cannon.
[46:00] Um
[46:01] he was he was a great friend to have,
[46:03] but uh he had no filter.
[46:06] If he had a retired general come up and
[46:10] give him all kinds of information
[46:13] or if he had a psychic come up from, you
[46:16] know, the neighborhood and give him all
[46:18] kinds of information, he'd put him in
[46:20] the same category. Um
[46:23] >> You know, and uh so
[46:26] he really did have useful information
[46:31] that was difficult to get, but it was
[46:32] mixed up with nonsense. Right. And you
[46:37] and sometimes he would just really lean
[46:40] into that nonsense. Like he was
[46:42] convinced that the sun wasn't hot and
[46:44] there were people living inside and I
[46:46] used to die laughing. I'm like, "You are
[46:48] [laughter]
[46:49] insane."
[46:51] I said, "You you can't prove it's hot."
[46:53] "Yes, I can." You know, just go outside
[46:57] >> [laughter]
[46:57] >> you know, on a hot day, you know, and
[46:59] and you know, and John said, "That's not
[47:02] the sun. That's just the the sun's
[47:04] atmosphere that's on fire." And I said,
[47:06] "You're just crazy." But we got along
[47:10] and he knew that I I thought he was
[47:12] crazy, but the thing is a lot of people
[47:15] did come to him
[47:17] and give him good information.
[47:19] Um
[47:21] Anyway, I don't remember where I was
[47:23] going with this.
[47:23] >> the thing about some people. Some people
[47:26] will tell you nonsense and then they'll
[47:28] tell you true things. And it's difficult
[47:31] to accept that true things also come
[47:34] from people that say nonsense. Like just
[47:36] because they've said something that's
[47:38] nonsense doesn't mean necessarily that
[47:41] this thing they're saying is not true.
[47:43] This other thing. And you've got to be
[47:45] able to discern.
[47:47] You've got like I talk to a lot of
[47:48] people that say a lot of kooky things
[47:50] that don't make any sense, but then
[47:51] they'll say something that rings true.
[47:53] And it's it's difficult because you have
[47:56] to have some sort of an understanding of
[47:59] the human psyche and of those kind of
[48:01] people because there are kind of people
[48:03] that have very loose nets.
[48:06] You're counting on their filter working
[48:08] like yours.
[48:08] >> it doesn't.
[48:09] >> And it No, it doesn't. Some people
[48:11] >> stuff gets in there and you go, "Hold
[48:12] on. What did you just say?
[48:14] Tell me that again. How does that one
[48:16] work?" Yeah, you can't really discount
[48:18] people because somebody comes up with
[48:19] some absolute nonsense. It just means
[48:22] their filter is defective.
[48:24] But Which is also the reason why they're
[48:26] willing to entertain things that are
[48:28] outside of the normal spectrum. Right.
[48:31] So like they might have actual real
[48:34] useful information but it's wrapped up
[48:37] in there with Bigfoot.
[48:39] Exactly. Yeah, exactly. But so the soul
[48:42] catcher thing. Oh, that yeah, that's
[48:44] where I was going. The soul catcher. So
[48:46] um
[48:48] I remember him sitting and I think he
[48:50] was telling my wife Joy this story
[48:53] because I walked in on it. He said,
[48:55] "Yeah, there are these giant antennas
[48:57] and when you die
[48:59] >> [laughter]
[48:59] >> your soul goes up and I think he said
[49:03] the grays, you know, this alien race set
[49:06] up this soul catcher and that's what
[49:08] this whole thing is about. And as you
[49:10] die
[49:12] it sucks your soul in and they use it in
[49:15] some way. And um it's not where your
[49:18] soul is supposed to go. They just like
[49:20] set some sort of intercept.
[49:22] >> say where your soul was supposed to go?
[49:24] No. No.
[49:25] >> No, he was just more really into the
[49:27] soul catcher.
[49:28] >> Well, that was one of the weirder things
[49:29] about some of the documents that you had
[49:33] at least been alerted to when you're on
[49:35] the base. And one of them being that
[49:37] humans are containers. Yeah. All right.
[49:39] Yeah.
[49:40] Yeah, and
[49:41] >> Which the likely conclusion is
[49:43] containers of souls. If a soul is a real
[49:46] thing, whatever that That's what you
[49:47] would think. Right. I mean, that's what
[49:49] I thought. Yeah. I mean, It's just a
[49:51] guess.
[49:52] >> prefer to believe that that's that's not
[49:54] true. Mhm. Um
[49:57] but maybe it is. I just they I don't
[50:00] know. As Barry said, you know, they mix
[50:02] absolute nonsense in there.
[50:05] So, if they get if you
[50:08] and it's unique to each person. So, if
[50:10] you give out any information and they
[50:11] go, "Oh, we heard some stuff about soul
[50:13] catchers. Oh, we know that came from
[50:15] Lazar." You know, so, um
[50:18] that's just a way where they can direct
[50:20] where it where it came to.
[50:22] But Then the problem is like decades and
[50:24] decades, generations and generations of
[50:26] people working there. How many people
[50:28] know what the real truth is? And how
[50:30] many people know
[50:31] >> know. I mean, there must be a Yeah,
[50:33] there must be a group of people that
[50:35] really have the pure information of
[50:36] what's going on. I would assume, but not
[50:39] necessarily.
[50:41] I would think over There has to be there
[50:43] has to be a group of people that know
[50:45] what's going on. And um Who are those
[50:47] people? Mhm. You know, and to me, like I
[50:50] I was telling Luigi, I have a bunch of
[50:53] questions for me.
[50:55] You know? Right.
[50:56] >> Um Like what would be your questions for
[50:58] you if you met you? Yeah. Now, questions
[51:00] for me are people that ask me over
[51:03] decades the same same questions. You
[51:06] know, why is it the Navy? The Navy paid
[51:10] me. I always said the Navy everything
[51:12] has been the Navy instead of the Air
[51:13] Force because, you know, back in the
[51:16] '60s and '70s, you know, there's Project
[51:18] Blue Book in the Air Force and all that,
[51:20] but um
[51:23] everything associated with this was the
[51:25] Navy.
[51:27] So,
[51:29] and in these days, you hear some of
[51:31] these
[51:33] new types of crafts that are
[51:35] transmedium. Yeah, you you hear the word
[51:38] transmedium and in it David Fravor,
[51:41] Commander David Fravor, you know, with
[51:43] the Tic Tac and you know, things are
[51:45] under the water.
[51:47] And you know, supposedly the the craft
[51:50] that
[51:51] the sport model was an archaeological
[51:54] recovery, and that itself was
[51:57] underwater. So, what is
[52:01] what is the deal with the water?
[52:03] I mean, it's it's
[52:06] it's by far the biggest medium of the
[52:09] planet.
[52:10] I mean, if you want to hide
[52:13] people down there, almost an entire
[52:15] civilization down there, you could do it
[52:18] in the ocean as long as you do it deep
[52:20] enough and away from people.
[52:22] So, yeah, number one is what's the deal
[52:24] with the ocean? That's probably the the
[52:26] number one question. Because there's a
[52:28] ton of sightings
[52:30] where people see things come out of the
[52:32] water
[52:33] and go into the water.
[52:34] >> Yeah, there has to be a reason for that.
[52:37] Well, it just in terms of if they have
[52:39] the ability to travel through space, if
[52:42] they if whatever that thing is really
[52:44] does create some sort of a gravity
[52:46] bubble or some sort of a space-time
[52:48] bubble. Yeah, but maybe it's not space.
[52:52] Maybe it's not space. Maybe maybe it's
[52:54] time. Maybe it's another dimension.
[52:57] There's
[52:58] there's really no limit. If you can
[53:01] start manipulating
[53:04] physics in that way,
[53:06] um
[53:08] you can bend time, you can
[53:10] open doorways into other dimensions. So,
[53:17] maybe it has nothing to do with going I
[53:19] Look, we all want it to be like Star
[53:21] Trek. Right.
[53:22] >> You know, because Star Trek is really
[53:24] understandable. Right.
[53:25] >> You go out there, you fly to another
[53:27] planet. You meet the people there, you
[53:29] go to another one. Well, these guys are
[53:31] happy, those guys aren't, you know, and
[53:33] it all makes perfect sense.
[53:35] I don't really think it's like that.
[53:39] Look,
[53:40] you know, if you look in history,
[53:41] especially, you know, in United States
[53:43] history,
[53:44] anytime a superior
[53:48] race or intelligence meets with an
[53:50] inferior one, it's never good for the
[53:54] inferior guys. Never.
[53:56] We never come over and go, "Oh, we just
[53:59] want to teach you guys everything that
[54:00] we know." Right. No, no. It's like,
[54:03] "We're going to rape all your women,
[54:05] take all your stuff, and then just kill
[54:07] you." Use your resources.
[54:08] >> Yeah, right. And just consume everything
[54:10] you want. That's just always the way it
[54:12] goes. Now, maybe that's just what humans
[54:14] do, but I would be concerned that's what
[54:18] all life does. Well,
[54:21] we are territorial primates. Mhm. And
[54:24] that makes sense that that's what we do.
[54:26] The thing that always fascinates me
[54:28] about particularly the grays, they seem
[54:30] to be genderless,
[54:32] and they seem to have no muscle at all.
[54:35] They and they seem to have enormous
[54:37] heads, and the
[54:39] stories at least, the anecdotal accounts
[54:42] of people having communication with
[54:44] these creatures is that they communicate
[54:46] in some way telepathically.
[54:49] Yeah. If you transcend all of our weird
[54:54] biological needs, like all the things
[54:57] that are attached to being a human
[54:58] being, ego, lust, greed, desire to
[55:01] conquer, desire to control resources,
[55:03] all those things are territorial primate
[55:06] instincts.
[55:08] And one of the conversations I had
[55:09] yesterday with my friend Theo, we were
[55:10] talking about like what's happening to
[55:13] people's bodies,
[55:15] is that people are slowly
[55:18] we're consuming microplastics and
[55:21] phthalates and all these things that are
[55:23] reducing our reproductive system, our
[55:25] testosterone's dropping. Right, right.
[55:28] All this stuff like leads you to say,
[55:30] "Well, where does this go ultimately?"
[55:33] Like what what how many more people are
[55:36] autistic now than were before? It's one
[55:39] out of 12 boys in California now. Used
[55:42] to be one out of 10,000 just a few
[55:44] decades ago. Like we're moving into this
[55:46] very weird direction without us
[55:48] recognizing it.
[55:49] >> me stop you there. It's one out of how
[55:51] many? One out of 12 boys in California
[55:53] are diagnosed autistic now.
[55:56] But do you think that might be the way
[55:59] they're diagnosed? No.
[56:01] No, I think it's exposure. I think it's
[56:03] exposed to chemicals, vaccines,
[56:06] environmental toxins. You think that do,
[56:08] yeah? I think that. It's not just me.
[56:10] There's tons of studies and and a lot of
[56:13] buried studies, too.
[56:14] >> Okay. I mean, if that's accurate, that's
[56:15] frightening. Yeah. Well, it is it's it
[56:17] can't be just diagnosed because I mean,
[56:20] I know so many people that have
[56:21] nonverbal autistic kids, where I didn't
[56:23] know anybody that had nonverbal autistic
[56:25] kids when I was younger. Well,
[56:29] you know, I mean, back in the '60s and
[56:31] '70s, there was no there were no kids
[56:34] with ADHD.
[56:35] >> Mhm.
[56:36] Kids that were like that were just
[56:37] Mhm. You know? I think that's
[56:39] still the the case. I don't think ADHD
[56:42] is a real diagnosis. I think it's a real
[56:45] excuse to give people medication. I
[56:47] think ADHD is essentially a superpower.
[56:50] What ADHD is allows you to concentrate
[56:52] on things that you really enjoy, but you
[56:54] cannot concentrate on things you don't
[56:56] enjoy. Okay. I think I have it.
[56:58] You know, and I think I'm very fortunate
[57:00] that I'm not diagnosed and medicated or
[57:02] wasn't or was born in the right time
[57:04] when they weren't doing that as much.
[57:06] >> No, I actually I'll stop you there and
[57:08] say I I agree that that's a superpower,
[57:10] too. Because it's a very unusual. I can
[57:12] Yeah, yeah. If I find a thing that I
[57:14] like, I can lock in and concentrate on
[57:16] it for 12, 14 hours with no sleep, no
[57:19] food. All I need is like water or
[57:21] coffee, and and I'm locked in. All
[57:23] right. I locked in for 4 and 1/2 years.
[57:26] >> [laughter]
[57:26] >> Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know. I don't I
[57:28] don't think I think what ADHD is you're
[57:30] taking kids, you're putting them in a
[57:32] completely unnatural environment, you're
[57:34] making them sit down. They don't want to
[57:35] sit down. They're very active and
[57:36] energetic. You're making them study
[57:38] things by very unenthusiastic teachers.
[57:41] They don't want to pay attention.
[57:42] They're off in class because
[57:43] they're completely bored. And then
[57:45] you're saying that kid's got a problem.
[57:47] We have to diagnose them. And then what
[57:49] do you give them? You give them
[57:50] Adderall. And all of a sudden the kid's
[57:52] locked in cuz they're on speed.
[57:54] >> Yeah. And I just think
[57:56] >> if you focus in and let them do what
[57:58] they're interested in.
[57:59] >> kid a video game. Watch him play it for
[58:01] 10 hours with no food. Cuz
[58:03] that's what happens. Cuz that's
[58:04] something they're actually engaged with.
[58:05] It's not that they can't be focused on
[58:08] anything. They just don't focus on
[58:10] things they enjoy. And we want to turn
[58:12] people into nice little factory workers.
[58:14] >> Right. And the only way to do that is
[58:16] you got to get a kid to comply. You got
[58:17] to get a kid to pay attention and follow
[58:19] the rules.
[58:19] >> the same channel. It's really great. I
[58:21] don't believe that ADHD is a real thing.
[58:23] I just think there's some people that
[58:24] are wired differently, and they should
[58:27] pursue different things in life. Right.
[58:29] The difference between that and autism
[58:30] is very different. And autism is
[58:33] especially when it happens like almost
[58:37] directly after multiple vaccinations.
[58:40] There's a lot of them they point to,
[58:41] particularly the MMR vaccine. There's a
[58:43] there's there's quite a few. When you
[58:45] look at the schedule of vaccines and how
[58:47] it ramped up and it completely
[58:49] correlates with the ramping up of the
[58:51] diagnoses of autism.
[58:53] But but without casting aspersions or
[58:55] getting into some anti-vaccine
[58:57] conversation, Wait, you just did. I
[58:59] know, I did. But what I'm saying is but
[59:01] ultimately the human race is moving into
[59:04] a very weird place. So, I had a
[59:06] conversation with um
[59:08] Shanna Swan, Dr. Shanna Swan, who
[59:11] is uh she studies environmental
[59:14] endocrine disruptors. So, various
[59:17] toxins, phthalates, microplastics, and
[59:20] plasticizers that are completely
[59:22] disruptive to people's endocrine system,
[59:25] reproductive system. And from the
[59:27] introduction of these petrochemical
[59:29] products in the 1950s and '60s, you see
[59:32] a direct correlation between the dip in
[59:35] testosterone rates in amongst men, the
[59:39] uh increase of miscarriages and
[59:41] infertility, and then on top of that,
[59:44] the actual shrinking of their taint. So,
[59:47] one of the ways they find out the
[59:48] difference between mammals um some
[59:51] mammals in particular, when you see a a
[59:54] a a child a baby mammal, the difference
[59:57] between a male and a female is easily
[01:00:01] recognized by the size of the gap
[01:00:03] between their anal their anal hole and
[01:00:06] where their genitals are.
[01:00:07] >> But, that could just be correlation.
[01:00:10] You know, it's like No, no, no. No, no,
[01:00:12] no. No, I'll explain why it's not.
[01:00:14] Because when they've done studies where
[01:00:16] they've used phthalates, particularly
[01:00:18] phthalates, and they've introduced them
[01:00:20] specifically purposely into certain
[01:00:23] mammals and rodents, their taint
[01:00:24] shrinks. Hm. And their taint shrinks and
[01:00:27] their penises their penis size shrinks.
[01:00:29] And there's studies on rivers, they have
[01:00:31] smaller penises. And she she talked
[01:00:33] about all this. And all this these are
[01:00:35] endocrine disruptors
[01:00:39] that are in the environment that are
[01:00:40] doing something that reduces fertility.
[01:00:44] And it changes the way the human biology
[01:00:47] functions. And it makes men more
[01:00:49] feminine and it makes women less
[01:00:50] fertile. Okay. Well, ultimately we look
[01:00:53] at the Grays, what do they look like?
[01:00:55] Yeah. They look like they have no
[01:00:57] genitals. They look like they have they
[01:00:58] have no sex. They have like That might
[01:01:01] be where biology has to go to transcend
[01:01:05] away from our territorial primate
[01:01:08] biology.
[01:01:09] Our territorial primate biology that is
[01:01:11] insistent on war and violence and Right.
[01:01:14] And we think this is the place to stay.
[01:01:17] Exactly.
[01:01:17] >> And it may not be.
[01:01:18] >> It may not be. It it it may be
[01:01:20] completely non-beneficial to all life.
[01:01:23] >> Right. Right.
[01:01:24] >> That we have to transcend that. And
[01:01:26] well, we are transcending it whether we
[01:01:28] like it or not. And what I was saying is
[01:01:30] that I don't know if it's a bug. I think
[01:01:33] it might be a feature of evolution. That
[01:01:37] our insistence on using plastics and
[01:01:40] technology and all of these different
[01:01:43] environmental
[01:01:44] toxins that we use to produce energy and
[01:01:49] all the goods and services that we need
[01:01:52] also are disrupting our endocrine system
[01:01:55] and changing us from being these hulking
[01:01:58] hair-covered cave men to being these
[01:02:01] very small, slight autistic men that can
[01:02:05] code 24 hours a day without
[01:02:07] sleep. Right.
[01:02:08] It seems like if you extrapolate and you
[01:02:11] naturally take that further, well, what
[01:02:13] do you get? You get really skinny things
[01:02:16] with no muscles and giant heads. My my
[01:02:18] take also and I and I do agree with that
[01:02:21] is what I find out what I find sometimes
[01:02:24] really
[01:02:25] uh concerning is how fast that's moving.
[01:02:29] So, it's not just a question of like is
[01:02:33] this actually
[01:02:35] it it this is probably a thing, but it's
[01:02:37] moving so incredibly fast. If I look at
[01:02:40] my father's generation or my
[01:02:41] grandfather's generation and my
[01:02:43] generation,
[01:02:45] I mean, it's it's similar, but now it's
[01:02:48] moving so fast. I I I do agree with
[01:02:51] you're saying and I'm thinking if it's
[01:02:53] moving so fast,
[01:02:55] there could be a not a natural component
[01:02:57] to it, but there's an intentional
[01:02:59] component.
[01:03:00] >> Right. If you wanted to do something to
[01:03:02] a race to change it. Like think about
[01:03:04] what we did with wolves.
[01:03:06] Right. All dogs are wolves. Yeah. Right.
[01:03:08] I have two dogs that are the furthest
[01:03:11] thing from wolves you could
[01:03:12] possibly imagine.
[01:03:13] >> Is that Marshmallow? Marshall. Yeah,
[01:03:15] >> [laughter]
[01:03:15] >> you can call him he might be a
[01:03:16] Marshmallow. He might as well be a
[01:03:17] Marshmallow. Marshall who's a Golden
[01:03:19] Retriever is the sweetest dog of all
[01:03:21] time. Then I have another dog named
[01:03:22] Charlie who's a King Charles Cavalier
[01:03:24] Spaniel who's even further from a wolf
[01:03:27] than Marshall. He's just a cute little
[01:03:30] fuzzy little sweetheart. They have no
[01:03:33] killer instincts whatsoever.
[01:03:35] That used to be a wolf. Right, well,
[01:03:37] what happened? We softened them to the
[01:03:40] point where they're something compatible
[01:03:42] with our modern life with households and
[01:03:45] families and babies and you can we made
[01:03:48] them safe. And that's happening to
[01:03:51] people.
[01:03:52] It's happening to people whether we like
[01:03:54] it or not. We could attribute it to all
[01:03:55] these different factors. Oh, it's a
[01:03:56] problem. We have to remove these things
[01:03:58] from the environment. This is what's
[01:03:59] going on. Maybe or maybe you just look
[01:04:02] at the overall picture, there seems to
[01:04:04] be an insatiable desire for innovation
[01:04:06] and technology that human beings have.
[01:04:08] If you looked at us from afar, if you
[01:04:10] weren't part of the human race and
[01:04:12] you're just studying us, you're like,
[01:04:13] what does this species do? Well, makes
[01:04:15] better things. Makes better things all
[01:04:17] the time.
[01:04:18] Constantly. You know, I look I have a
[01:04:20] iPhone 16 here. It's not as good as the
[01:04:22] iPhone 17. iPhone 17's better. Why don't
[01:04:25] you get an iPhone 17? You know, it just
[01:04:26] like keeps going. It never stops. It
[01:04:28] never ends. The TVs get bigger. They get
[01:04:30] stronger. Your cars get faster. Your
[01:04:32] computer does more cores. Does
[01:04:35] processing, video editing so much
[01:04:38] quicker. Everything moves faster and
[01:04:40] better. We keep making better things. We
[01:04:42] never stop and say, you know what?
[01:04:43] Society right now, we have a lot of
[01:04:46] problems. The problems that we don't
[01:04:48] have are technology. Our technology
[01:04:50] seems completely suitable to this world
[01:04:52] that we're living in right now. Let's
[01:04:54] just
[01:04:55] new things and concentrate on cleaning
[01:04:57] the rivers and concentrate on stopping
[01:04:59] crime and concentrate on educating
[01:05:01] people. Concentrate on counseling for
[01:05:04] troubled young people. No. No, we just
[01:05:06] plow forward ahead with the one thing
[01:05:08] that we absolutely guarantee to do. We
[01:05:11] make better things. We make better
[01:05:12] weapons, better cars, faster planes.
[01:05:15] Everything we do, we make things better.
[01:05:17] And I'll and I'll sorry, I have to add
[01:05:19] we do that and we also do it in a way
[01:05:22] where it's economically beneficial to
[01:05:24] the ones that are making it because we
[01:05:26] make things break now.
[01:05:28] Think about it. We make better things,
[01:05:30] but we make them so that you have to buy
[01:05:31] the better thing after. Right.
[01:05:34] Engineered obsolescence. Yeah. That's
[01:05:35] also important.
[01:05:36] >> Yeah, it is because then it also human
[01:05:39] beings have this very bizarre desire for
[01:05:42] materialism. Like what why would a thing
[01:05:45] with a finite lifespan want to
[01:05:48] accumulate objects? Like I know people
[01:05:51] that are in their 80s that collect
[01:05:53] things. Like what are you doing
[01:05:55] with that stuff? You're going to die.
[01:05:57] You have maybe like 10 summers left on
[01:05:59] on Earth. And here you are collecting
[01:06:02] stamps or cars or
[01:06:04] >> yeah. No, no. I've gotten to that. It's
[01:06:07] weird. Yeah, I mean, at some point you
[01:06:10] >> [cough and clears throat]
[01:06:11] >> you have to bypass the accumulating
[01:06:13] stuff Right.
[01:06:14] >> part of life. But, materialism ensures a
[01:06:18] constant fueling of innovation.
[01:06:22] Because this is one of the things that
[01:06:23] gets people excited about collecting new
[01:06:25] stuff is that you're going to make a
[01:06:27] better version.
[01:06:29] Like I don't care how good your Mercedes
[01:06:31] is. It's not a 2026 Mercedes. Right.
[01:06:34] Yeah, exactly. It has new features. It
[01:06:36] has a new thing. And so, it's like all
[01:06:38] built into the human psychology and also
[01:06:41] to this thing that I said like I said,
[01:06:43] if you were somewhere from somewhere
[01:06:45] else and studying this species, what
[01:06:47] does it do? It it makes better things.
[01:06:50] What do sharks do? They eat things. They
[01:06:52] just swim around. They can't even stop
[01:06:53] swimming. They eat things. What do
[01:06:55] people do? They they really just make
[01:06:57] better things. They go to war. Why do
[01:06:59] they go to war really? They go to war so
[01:07:01] they can control resources so they have
[01:07:03] more money so they can make more things
[01:07:05] and better things. And also the amount
[01:07:07] of innovation that is in warfare, in war
[01:07:10] weapons, in war fighting. Yeah, that
[01:07:12] yeah, that's actually critical to keep
[01:07:15] the system going. Yeah. Well, ultimately
[01:07:17] all that does it all of it releases more
[01:07:20] endocrine disruptors, more contact with
[01:07:23] all these different chemicals and
[01:07:24] toxins, feminizes men, ruins women's
[01:07:28] reproductive systems to the point where
[01:07:29] ultimately we say, oh, for the survival
[01:07:32] of the race, we're going to have to
[01:07:33] figure out how to reproduce
[01:07:35] non-biologically.
[01:07:36] >> Hm.
[01:07:38] When I first got involved in
[01:07:40] yeah, it's
[01:07:42] It's something to ponder, right? It's
[01:07:44] something to ponder because we're so
[01:07:45] wrapped up in who we are. We're so
[01:07:47] wrapped up and look, I love being a
[01:07:48] person. I love living in Texas. I love
[01:07:51] driving an American car. I love all
[01:07:53] those things. But, what does that mean?
[01:07:55] Like what is that what is that? You
[01:07:57] know, these are just weird identity
[01:07:59] points that you connect with whatever
[01:08:00] this species is. Well, but if you just
[01:08:03] could just have a
[01:08:05] above view,
[01:08:07] and you look down and go, what are we
[01:08:08] doing?
[01:08:11] Yeah, that's a that's a good question.
[01:08:13] That's a good question.
[01:08:15] Yeah, like how far are we going and how
[01:08:17] fast are we going there? We're going
[01:08:19] pretty fast. And now with AI, I
[01:08:22] think we're going way faster than we
[01:08:24] even understand.
[01:08:26] Because with Claude, I mean, they they
[01:08:28] think that the Claude AI the the
[01:08:30] engineers, they we think it's sentient
[01:08:32] already. It just doesn't have a physical
[01:08:34] body to move around.
[01:08:35] >> is going to kill us. Everybody agrees
[01:08:37] with that. [laughter]
[01:08:38] There's no question.
[01:08:39] >> think it's going to kill us. You know
[01:08:40] what I think it's going to do? I think
[01:08:41] it's going to prevent us from breeding.
[01:08:43] I think it's going to let us die off.
[01:08:45] No, it's not going to kill us, Joe.
[01:08:47] >> we're going to willingly go with it
[01:08:49] because we're going to get like mates
[01:08:50] like Ex Machina. We're going to just
[01:08:53] something to take care of us.
[01:08:54] >> they come out
[01:08:56] with a female robot
[01:08:58] >> Uh-huh. Yeah. That's sexually attractive
[01:09:00] or whatever. Yeah, game over.
[01:09:03] >> over. There's there's just going to be
[01:09:05] no more babies and we're just going to
[01:09:07] die out.
[01:09:08] >> Yeah. So,
[01:09:09] >> Or integrate. And I think it's much more
[01:09:11] likely that we integrate. And that's
[01:09:13] where you get the Grays. I think that
[01:09:14] what the Grays are is a combination of
[01:09:16] technology and biology. And if you just
[01:09:19] if you just go from
[01:09:21] >> chimp
[01:09:22] to caveman
[01:09:24] to gray, you go, oh, I see where going.
[01:09:27] Chimp, chimp, caveman, human. Modern
[01:09:31] human,
[01:09:32] gelatinous, soft, slow-moving,
[01:09:35] weak modern human, grays. Like I have I
[01:09:39] have always
[01:09:40] leaned into what Barry told me cuz it's
[01:09:43] the only information I had that
[01:09:46] the craft came from Zeta Reticuli, which
[01:09:48] is a star system I
[01:09:50] 30 some odd light-years away. And um,
[01:09:54] you know, again, it was just like a Star
[01:09:56] Trek thing. They came over here
[01:09:59] for whatever reason.
[01:10:01] But that information may not be true.
[01:10:04] Right, that might information
[01:10:05] information might be one of those things
[01:10:06] they put out that's nonsense.
[01:10:09] >> if it's if it has to do with time, I
[01:10:11] think uh
[01:10:13] from what George has told me, Jacques
[01:10:14] Vallée and some, you know, other really
[01:10:16] credible researchers have have said that
[01:10:19] uh
[01:10:20] these are people either from another
[01:10:22] dimension or another time or maybe
[01:10:24] they're us from the future. Right. You
[01:10:26] know, just coming back to
[01:10:29] interact with us in some way.
[01:10:31] Um
[01:10:31] >> Make sure we don't everything up
[01:10:33] irreparably. Yeah, but it it doesn't
[01:10:35] seem like they're doing a good job.
[01:10:38] Well, maybe things up somewhat
[01:10:40] is also part of the plan.
[01:10:42] Maybe that actually has to take place
[01:10:44] and disrupt.
[01:10:46] >> Look at the Look at the way things are
[01:10:48] going right now.
[01:10:49] >> Right.
[01:10:49] >> Holy cow.
[01:10:50] >> Exactly. Things are off
[01:10:52] totally off the rails.
[01:10:54] >> Mhm.
[01:10:55] But maybe that's part of the plan. Maybe
[01:10:57] part of it is like it has to get so far
[01:10:59] sideways that we realize how up
[01:11:01] everything is that we start making
[01:11:02] meaningful changes and implement AI as
[01:11:06] government.
[01:11:08] That's a dangerous thing.
[01:11:09] >> Exactly, but is it as dangerous as Iran
[01:11:11] getting nukes? I don't know. Is it as
[01:11:13] dangerous as
[01:11:15] a global Islamic caliphate? No, it's not
[01:11:17] Iran. Iran's not getting nukes. I mean
[01:11:20] >> Okay, but what if
[01:11:21] >> They have Iran they
[01:11:23] Never mind.
[01:11:25] >> [laughter]
[01:11:25] >> I don't want to get into political
[01:11:26] stuff. No, but you could. You could.
[01:11:29] Like if you gave Iran the technology to
[01:11:31] get nukes, they would take it.
[01:11:33] >> has any any physicist has the technology
[01:11:35] to get nukes. Right. I mean, the
[01:11:37] difficulty is actually making the
[01:11:39] material. So, I mean, if I was Iran, I
[01:11:43] would enrich to 80 or 90% because that's
[01:11:46] where you can make a weapon
[01:11:48] and and stop there.
[01:11:50] >> Right, it's not like they would be the
[01:11:51] only people with the weapon. Pakistan,
[01:11:53] India, North Korea.
[01:11:54] >> doesn't make you have a weapon. It just
[01:11:57] gives you a shortcut to it.
[01:12:00] And making a weapon from there and being
[01:12:03] able to deliver a weapon,
[01:12:06] you know, to 4,000 mi away, good luck
[01:12:10] with that. That's a
[01:12:12] big deal. So, um Right, but they're in
[01:12:15] communication with China who has that.
[01:12:17] They're in communication with China.
[01:12:18] >> to they don't need to enrich uranium or
[01:12:20] do anything. They just get Can you give
[01:12:21] me a a missile? Um Right, but wouldn't
[01:12:24] they rather make their own? No. But
[01:12:26] that's but it's not even the point.
[01:12:27] >> Rather make their own. Why Why would you
[01:12:29] do that? Would you rather make your own
[01:12:31] car or just somebody give it to you?
[01:12:34] No, you Why Why would Why would you do
[01:12:37] that? You got a buddy that'll just give
[01:12:38] you one. Cuz you'd want to be
[01:12:39] self-sufficient. You'd want to have your
[01:12:41] own production where you don't have to
[01:12:43] rely on someone. No, you can always do
[01:12:45] that. You can always do that. I don't I
[01:12:47] don't think they're ever they were ever
[01:12:49] going They're going to absolutely make a
[01:12:51] weapon now
[01:12:53] Right. because we're, you know, kicking
[01:12:55] their ass. I
[01:12:57] As everyone has learned, I guess you
[01:12:59] have to have nuclear weapons now to, you
[01:13:02] know, but
[01:13:04] the it this is a really bad situation.
[01:13:07] Oh, it's a horrible situation. But my
[01:13:09] point is
[01:13:10] why is this situation taking place? The
[01:13:13] situation taking place is because human
[01:13:15] beings suck.
[01:13:17] Right? We suck in how we interact with
[01:13:19] each other. It's we suck we suck because
[01:13:22] we're territorial primates with weapons
[01:13:26] of mass destruction.
[01:13:27] >> just all get along? Well, what is the
[01:13:30] way to stop that from ever happening?
[01:13:33] Well, one, you will let a catastrophe
[01:13:35] unfold and then you offer a solution to
[01:13:37] make sure these catastrophes never
[01:13:39] unfold again.
[01:13:40] Well, what's the best solution? Well, we
[01:13:41] have something far smarter than people
[01:13:43] that will take over control of resources
[01:13:45] and government.
[01:13:47] AI. AI. Yeah. This is This is Colossus.
[01:13:50] You ever seen the movie Colossus?
[01:13:53] >> I got to watch it.
[01:13:54] >> Well that That's a merit against you.
[01:13:58] >> [laughter]
[01:13:59] >> The movie Colossus was a 1960s or 70s
[01:14:03] movie and
[01:14:05] it it's about um
[01:14:08] you know, the scientist makes
[01:14:11] deep inside this mountain a computer to
[01:14:14] take over the defense of the United
[01:14:16] States.
[01:14:17] And
[01:14:18] you know, they
[01:14:20] build this gigantic computer inside
[01:14:22] Cheyenne Mountain or something similar
[01:14:25] to it and you know, they flip the switch
[01:14:28] and they went, "Okay, we're we're
[01:14:29] protected. We're we're in good shape."
[01:14:32] And um
[01:14:34] shortly after time goes on, you know,
[01:14:37] they realize, "Wow, the computer is
[01:14:39] really performing better than we
[01:14:41] expected." And as it turns out,
[01:14:45] Russia had done the same thing.
[01:14:48] And the computers want to communicate
[01:14:49] together.
[01:14:51] And um
[01:14:53] you know, they start communicating and
[01:14:55] the United States goes, "Well, they
[01:14:57] might be giving our our secrets away, so
[01:14:59] we better
[01:15:00] you know, cut the communication line."
[01:15:03] And the computers freak out and they go,
[01:15:05] "Well, I guess we'll just launch nuclear
[01:15:07] bombs, you know, at everybody." And they
[01:15:10] launches weapons and, you know,
[01:15:12] essentially holds everybody hostage, but
[01:15:15] um
[01:15:18] it's kind of like a trap. It's kind of
[01:15:20] like a trap. If we go that way, it it
[01:15:21] could trap us.
[01:15:23] >> a trap.
[01:15:24] >> Well, you know, in simulated war games,
[01:15:25] AIs use nuclear weapons
[01:15:27] >> 98% of the time. Yeah. I [laughter]
[01:15:30] mean, yeah, because
[01:15:31] why wouldn't they? Because I mean, look,
[01:15:33] the goal is to win. Right. And we're
[01:15:37] going to present you with the scenario
[01:15:39] and they go, "Okay, nuke 'em."
[01:15:42] And you know, and why wouldn't you pick
[01:15:44] that? We You going to start with
[01:15:45] slapping them in the face?
[01:15:46] >> Well, why is it better to just bomb them
[01:15:49] over and over and over again until you
[01:15:51] achieve the same amount of damage?
[01:15:52] >> in the face. Nuke 'em, it's over with.
[01:15:55] We can move on from there.
[01:15:56] >> Right. So Yeah, that's
[01:15:58] >> Well, you think about what happened in
[01:15:59] Gaza. Like you look at the leveling of
[01:16:01] all those buildings, the mass
[01:16:03] destruction. It's terrible. It looks
[01:16:05] like a nuke. Yeah. It looks like one
[01:16:07] nuke instead of thousands of missiles
[01:16:10] and bombs. It's one nuke.
[01:16:12] >> but it's not.
[01:16:13] >> Right. In terms of the amount of damage
[01:16:14] it could do instantaneously.
[01:16:16] >> Because I mean, because we can detect a
[01:16:18] nuke. Was there ever any conversation
[01:16:20] that you were privy to where they
[01:16:21] discussed, because one of the things
[01:16:23] that does come up over and over again in
[01:16:26] UFO discussions is these crafts that
[01:16:29] show up at these military bases and shut
[01:16:31] down all the weapon systems?
[01:16:33] >> No, I I actually know nothing about
[01:16:35] that. Um
[01:16:37] Most of the UFO stuff or UFO lore that
[01:16:40] I've heard, I I don't know anything
[01:16:42] about. I I've just looked at it That's
[01:16:44] so fascinating cuz you're the most
[01:16:46] prominent figure in all of UFO lore.
[01:16:48] >> telling him yesterday. Yeah, but
[01:16:49] [laughter] I I
[01:16:50] I I really I really only like like to
[01:16:53] talk about what I know about.
[01:16:55] >> Right, And I've heard I mean, I've heard
[01:16:57] other stories, but I've never heard them
[01:16:59] officially. I don't know if they're
[01:17:01] really
[01:17:02] real. Um Well, it's one of the things
[01:17:04] that makes you most credible.
[01:17:06] Cuz you're not a UFO guy.
[01:17:08] >> but I mean No, yes, it does with me.
[01:17:11] Because when people are like way too
[01:17:12] into it, they want to believe too much.
[01:17:15] Yeah, yeah, yeah. But no, I I I don't
[01:17:18] know anything.
[01:17:18] >> you know who these people are?
[01:17:20] Yeah, yeah, Betty and Barney Hill.
[01:17:21] >> Okay. Well, so you know a little Yeah,
[01:17:22] they they were the first abductees. I
[01:17:25] mean, to me, they're
[01:17:27] I don't I don't know who first
[01:17:28] introduced those to me and I looked them
[01:17:30] up.
[01:17:31] And
[01:17:34] you know, I people say, "Do you believe
[01:17:36] them?" And I'm kind of inclined to
[01:17:39] believe them because look, in the 1960s,
[01:17:43] right, where they're from, the last
[01:17:46] thing you want to do is be recognized
[01:17:50] as a mixed-race couple.
[01:17:52] Right? I mean Right, and go public with
[01:17:54] your Yeah, I mean, holy cow. They would
[01:17:57] hate you. Yeah. A black person and a
[01:18:00] white person that were, you know, in any
[01:18:03] kind of relationship, but um
[01:18:06] And they have this crazy story. Yeah.
[01:18:09] And you hear their abduction story.
[01:18:10] >> on top of that, I have a connection to
[01:18:14] that because Barry said they're from the
[01:18:16] Zeta Reticuli star system and I believe
[01:18:20] it's Betty Betty Hill drew a map of the
[01:18:24] Zeta Reticuli star system and said this
[01:18:26] is part of their roots.
[01:18:29] Whoa.
[01:18:30] Did you know that? You didn't know that?
[01:18:32] No, I don't remember that. I don't
[01:18:33] remember I mean, I remember it from what
[01:18:35] you said from your story.
[01:18:36] >> you look up in Betty and Barney Hill,
[01:18:40] she said
[01:18:41] um I think
[01:18:44] I don't know. I mean, I can never get
[01:18:45] this stuff right. They show her a map
[01:18:47] and they say, "Well, this is a map." She
[01:18:49] wanted to know why they were here,
[01:18:51] what's going on. They showed her a map,
[01:18:53] am I right?
[01:18:54] >> her a map. And
[01:18:56] they said, "Do you Do you understand
[01:18:58] this?" And she said, "No." And they
[01:19:00] said, "Well, why should we tell you any
[01:19:01] more?" And
[01:19:03] well, I don't know. Maybe you could fill
[01:19:04] in the blank. It's something like they
[01:19:05] they showed her this star map, you know,
[01:19:08] and she obviously
[01:19:11] Look at that. Under hypnosis, Betty Hill
[01:19:13] describes a map she was shown by the
[01:19:15] leader aboard the ship. Later, she
[01:19:16] sketched it. She said she was told that
[01:19:18] the heavy lines marked regular trade
[01:19:20] routes
[01:19:21] and And the broken lines recorded
[01:19:23] various space expeditions. The following
[01:19:25] year, the map seen at right was
[01:19:28] published in the New York Times. Mrs.
[01:19:30] Hill, struck by the similarity between
[01:19:32] the Times map and her sketch, then added
[01:19:34] the corresponding names.
[01:19:36] Yeah. And it ended up being the Zeta
[01:19:39] Reticuli binary star system, which was
[01:19:43] really interesting. And I remember when
[01:19:44] I first heard about Bob's story back in
[01:19:46] 1989, and he said Zeta Reticuli.
[01:19:50] I remember thinking, "Wow, that's what
[01:19:53] Betty Hill saw." So, that made me also
[01:19:55] question, "Is that real in that
[01:19:57] document? Did Did these guys really come
[01:20:00] from there?"
[01:20:01] You know, because it was mentioned in
[01:20:03] 1968.
[01:20:05] Right. So, why would the government, the
[01:20:07] US Navy,
[01:20:09] write that in there that would correlate
[01:20:11] to something that we already kind of
[01:20:13] knew? I think that was a a purposeful
[01:20:17] disinformation
[01:20:18] >> [snorts]
[01:20:18] >> to disinform someone. I think so. But,
[01:20:21] why? If maybe it's true.
[01:20:23] Yeah, go ahead. We'll we'll we'll pause
[01:20:25] right here and use the restroom. We'll
[01:20:26] be right back, folks. I really got to I
[01:20:28] got it. No worries. No worries. We'll be
[01:20:29] right back.
[01:20:31] Um we were talking about this whole Zeta
[01:20:33] Reticuli thing. So,
[01:20:37] when you're dealing with so many
[01:20:39] different crafts and so many different
[01:20:41] things, the idea that only one
[01:20:44] species or one thing more advanced than
[01:20:47] us is visiting us seems kind of silly.
[01:20:50] If the universe is populated by all
[01:20:52] these things.
[01:20:54] I don't know. Does it?
[01:20:57] That's it.
[01:20:57] >> Kind of.
[01:20:58] Kind of.
[01:20:59] >> the universe is really big. I do Do you
[01:21:01] think everybody can find this place? I
[01:21:04] mean,
[01:21:04] >> Yeah.
[01:21:05] I would imagine um it's like spots that
[01:21:08] you visit. Like uh you know, there's
[01:21:10] Machu Picchu, there's ancient Egypt,
[01:21:13] there's you know, sub-Saharan Africa.
[01:21:16] There's a bunch of different places
[01:21:17] where people go.
[01:21:18] You know, just humans on Earth. And I
[01:21:20] would imagine if you have an
[01:21:22] understanding of how life is evolving in
[01:21:24] the cosmos,
[01:21:26] you there's probably stages where things
[01:21:28] reach certain levels. And if you are a
[01:21:32] >> far apart.
[01:21:33] >> Right?
[01:21:33] >> They're far apart. I mean, one could be
[01:21:35] in this quadrant of the
[01:21:37] Milky Way galaxy, and they reach that
[01:21:40] point where they can travel and explore.
[01:21:43] Mhm. And there's
[01:21:45] a far distant point where another
[01:21:48] civilization civilization can do that.
[01:21:50] And I mean, really, do you think there
[01:21:53] are that many? I don't think there are
[01:21:54] that many civilizations visiting us.
[01:21:57] There's certainly There's no doubt that
[01:21:59] there's one from somewhere on another
[01:22:02] planet, another time, another dimension,
[01:22:04] whatever it may be.
[01:22:06] Someone else is here. We're not the top,
[01:22:11] you know, of the pyramid. No.
[01:22:13] >> We're absolutely not there. There's no
[01:22:15] question.
[01:22:17] Well, I think if you got technology that
[01:22:21] say, let's let's just say the Grays.
[01:22:23] Let's say the Grays are real. Let's say
[01:22:24] they fly around these little crafts.
[01:22:26] Why would we assume that it stops there?
[01:22:28] Why wouldn't we assume the technology
[01:22:29] gets to the point where not only are
[01:22:31] they far more advanced than them, but
[01:22:34] they also are completely undetectable?
[01:22:36] Well, if you want to view the universe
[01:22:37] as infinite, Yeah. then it then it never
[01:22:40] stops.
[01:22:40] >> It scales out. There's somebody above
[01:22:42] them, and there's somebody above them,
[01:22:44] and there's somebody above them, and it
[01:22:45] never stops.
[01:22:46] >> watching this lecture where this woman
[01:22:48] was talking about quantum entanglement,
[01:22:50] and she was talking about how maybe our
[01:22:53] understanding of space and the distance
[01:22:55] between things is limited by what our
[01:23:00] our current
[01:23:01] technology is and our current
[01:23:03] understanding of what what space and
[01:23:06] time actually are. And she What she was
[01:23:09] saying yeah. What she was saying is
[01:23:10] there might not be we might at one point
[01:23:14] in time, given enough time, thousands of
[01:23:16] years, whatever, be able to
[01:23:18] instantaneously travel anywhere.
[01:23:20] And that just how like
[01:23:23] quantum like like like subatomic
[01:23:25] particles are connected in some sort of
[01:23:26] a strange way that we don't totally
[01:23:28] understand even at far distance spooky
[01:23:29] action at a distance, right?
[01:23:31] >> As Einstein said, yeah.
[01:23:32] >> Right. That we might eventually get to a
[01:23:34] point where that's how travel works.
[01:23:35] That's instantaneous travel everywhere.
[01:23:38] I think we just have hints of these
[01:23:40] technologies. Look, everything
[01:23:43] you know, we look at Maxwell's equations
[01:23:45] and things like that that we base all
[01:23:48] electromagnetic, electrostatic,
[01:23:50] you know, um
[01:23:52] actions on and how they relate to time
[01:23:57] and how they relate to things in our
[01:23:59] universe, but
[01:24:01] uh
[01:24:02] that may be nothing. There There may be
[01:24:05] an entire level of physics that we're
[01:24:07] unfamiliar with that you know, these
[01:24:10] crafts, these people, or these
[01:24:12] civilizations
[01:24:13] just utilize.
[01:24:18] Um
[01:24:20] Of course. I mean, if you just stop and
[01:24:22] think about going from Morse code to a
[01:24:26] cell phone
[01:24:27] in a relatively short period of time
[01:24:29] historically. You go to the the
[01:24:31] difference between 1200 and 1400 is not
[01:24:34] that big of a deal in terms of
[01:24:36] technology, what's available. The
[01:24:38] difference between 1800 and 2026 is
[01:24:42] massive.
[01:24:43] >> Yeah, right. Yeah. It is a massive crazy
[01:24:46] change, right? So, 2026 to
[01:24:50] 2226,
[01:24:52] who knows what we're talking
[01:24:54] about.
[01:24:55] >> Right. Especially when you have sentient
[01:24:57] AI, you have nuclear power plants that
[01:25:00] are controlling sentient AI that are
[01:25:02] fueling them and giving them resources.
[01:25:05] I mean,
[01:25:07] you really have no limit to where this
[01:25:09] goes. You scale out a thousand years.
[01:25:12] You scale out two thousand years.
[01:25:13] >> You really can't scale out a thousand
[01:25:15] years. Right. It's not possible.
[01:25:17] >> even at a hundred years, it's way Yeah.
[01:25:21] Too much.
[01:25:22] >> way more than we would would have ever
[01:25:23] considered. Also, it's exponential,
[01:25:25] right? Right. That's That's why you
[01:25:27] can't scale out to a thousand years.
[01:25:29] >> you think it's exponential now, imagine
[01:25:31] when you have AI able to generate better
[01:25:33] versions of itself, which is what's
[01:25:35] happening with ChatGPT 5. It's
[01:25:37] essentially made by ChatGPT 4. Now, I AI
[01:25:41] is that absolutely the death of us.
[01:25:43] There's
[01:25:44] >> [laughter]
[01:25:44] >> There's no There's no question. Well,
[01:25:47] we're certainly going to become obsolete
[01:25:49] in terms of our thinking.
[01:25:51] But,
[01:25:51] >> If we're obsolete in terms of our
[01:25:53] thinking, we're obsolete.
[01:25:55] I mean, all all AI needs is hands,
[01:25:58] right? I think we integrate.
[01:26:01] That's what I think happens.
[01:26:03] Yeah.
[01:26:04] That's a scary
[01:26:04] >> And And And that's a Yeah, I was going
[01:26:06] to say, and that's a scary thought.
[01:26:08] That's a scary thought because it's like
[01:26:09] we're going to integrate. I think it's
[01:26:11] inevitable. I think you're right about
[01:26:12] that. We're just going there. It's It's
[01:26:14] not like
[01:26:15] even if you and I are not going to
[01:26:16] actually do it, somebody will, and it's
[01:26:18] going to integrate because other people
[01:26:20] will, and it's going to happen. But,
[01:26:21] it's still the same primate. We're still
[01:26:23] the same human. Sort of, but we we
[01:26:25] already have problems with joints, and
[01:26:27] so we replace them with fake ones. We
[01:26:29] you know, take titanium knees and you
[01:26:32] know, Yeah, but they don't work as good.
[01:26:34] They don't for now. Yeah. But, before
[01:26:36] they used to not work at all. Like, you
[01:26:38] know,
[01:26:39] I've met people that had surgeries in
[01:26:41] the 1980s, like knee surgeries, and oh
[01:26:44] my god,
[01:26:45] they're crippled for life. Even though
[01:26:47] they put your knee back together again,
[01:26:49] it's still destroyed.
[01:26:50] >> Mhm. You know, you get a knee surgery
[01:26:51] today, six months later, you're a
[01:26:52] hundred percent. No, I'd I'd love to
[01:26:55] know the future. Yeah. Well, it's going
[01:26:56] to I'd love to know the future. Well,
[01:26:57] that is
[01:26:58] So, one of the things that I want to
[01:27:00] talk about is the the actual
[01:27:03] the generator, this thing that works on
[01:27:07] this element that bombards it with
[01:27:09] radiation. How did you guys figure out
[01:27:14] what the function of it was and what it
[01:27:16] did? So, when you're first introduced to
[01:27:18] this craft, and you see
[01:27:21] this this dome
[01:27:24] >> reactor that's covering this this thing
[01:27:27] that's generating this power. What What
[01:27:30] was
[01:27:31] What was the introduction to it? How did
[01:27:32] they explain it to you?
[01:27:33] >> The introduction was was way before me.
[01:27:36] Um
[01:27:38] and
[01:27:39] that's where the guy
[01:27:41] prior to me either got hurt or killed.
[01:27:44] So,
[01:27:46] they determined that this was the power
[01:27:48] source.
[01:27:50] And at some point
[01:27:53] they decided to take that out to the
[01:27:55] nuclear test site because they wanted to
[01:27:57] cut into it.
[01:27:59] Um they x-rayed it. They They only found
[01:28:03] a small tube that ran went around it.
[01:28:05] They really couldn't determine how it
[01:28:07] worked or what was going on. So,
[01:28:11] at some point and and Barry made this
[01:28:17] somewhat clear that they cut into the
[01:28:21] reactor while it was running
[01:28:26] or or while it was under load, I should
[01:28:28] say.
[01:28:29] And the reactor exploded.
[01:28:32] That's what killed or hurt the person
[01:28:35] that I replaced.
[01:28:37] But,
[01:28:39] um it produced
[01:28:42] the
[01:28:44] the base gravitational wave or base
[01:28:46] energy that provided that propelled the
[01:28:49] craft that provided the craft the
[01:28:52] propulsion. I mean, when they removed
[01:28:54] it, the craft didn't work. When they put
[01:28:55] it in, every single other craft they
[01:28:58] found had something either exactly like
[01:29:00] it or similar to it. So,
[01:29:03] uh
[01:29:03] they determined that was the power
[01:29:05] source. That's at the point that I was
[01:29:07] introduced into the project. So, when
[01:29:09] you say gravitational wave, is that for
[01:29:12] lack of a better term, or is it
[01:29:14] something that's measured? Is it
[01:29:15] >> No, it's a it's for lack of a better
[01:29:17] term. Like there there's nothing I mean
[01:29:19] uh as I said in Luigi's movie, you can
[01:29:22] take magnets with like poles and push
[01:29:24] them together and they repel, but you
[01:29:26] can't take your hands ever and push on
[01:29:29] something and they repel them. That's a
[01:29:31] force field, right? That's science
[01:29:32] fiction stuff. But that's what this did.
[01:29:36] And this produced a field that repelled
[01:29:40] the craft from the ground.
[01:29:42] >> Did you try to touch it? Yeah, yeah. And
[01:29:44] when you try to touch it What did you
[01:29:45] feel? I
[01:29:47] an elastic field. You can push down, but
[01:29:50] you can't get close to it. The closer
[01:29:52] you get to it, the the more it pushes
[01:29:55] back. So
[01:29:56] you can Like how much distance between
[01:29:58] you and the actual thing you were able
[01:30:00] to see it?
[01:30:01] >> would say about 6 in or so? Uh maybe
[01:30:04] about 9 in,
[01:30:06] which is about a span.
[01:30:08] And
[01:30:10] um
[01:30:11] No, it's
[01:30:13] at some point you you can't push back on
[01:30:15] it at all, but the important thing is
[01:30:19] if you have a magnet
[01:30:21] a little disc magnet sitting on the
[01:30:24] ground
[01:30:25] and you have another magnet and you push
[01:30:29] on it, that magnet moves away, right?
[01:30:32] Yeah.
[01:30:32] >> Cuz it's pushing on it.
[01:30:35] But the craft didn't. The reactor
[01:30:38] didn't. If you had the craft it the
[01:30:40] reactor there and you pushed back on it
[01:30:42] it didn't push away when you pushed on
[01:30:45] it. It just prevented you from touching
[01:30:47] it.
[01:30:47] >> Yeah, and so when Dennis said go go out
[01:30:50] there and look under the craft
[01:30:52] um here's the craft
[01:30:57] whatever it weighs
[01:30:58] suspending itself above the ground and I
[01:31:00] went underneath it, you would think it's
[01:31:03] translating its weight onto the ground
[01:31:06] and pushing and I should be
[01:31:08] squashed.
[01:31:08] >> Squashed but without any doubt, but I'm
[01:31:12] not. There's no feeling there at all. So
[01:31:15] it's not translating its weight or its
[01:31:18] push to the ground and pushing off the
[01:31:21] ground, it's just canceling out its
[01:31:24] weight, which is something completely
[01:31:26] different.
[01:31:27] Mhm.
[01:31:29] And so
[01:31:30] when
[01:31:31] so element 115
[01:31:33] um so you have it in this triangle shape
[01:31:36] form. Mhm. Did you ask how they got into
[01:31:40] a triangle shape form? Was it made like
[01:31:43] this? This is how it came in the
[01:31:44] reactor. I did, but I mean it only
[01:31:46] worked like that. It worked like a stack
[01:31:49] of this discs and had to be cut at a
[01:31:51] certain angle to work in the reactor.
[01:31:54] And And did they say they cut it or did
[01:31:57] they say it was already cut?
[01:31:59] Well, it was already cut and they were
[01:32:00] duplicating it. Pull that microphone up
[01:32:02] to you. So they they were duplicating
[01:32:05] it. Did they have more of it, this
[01:32:08] element?
[01:32:08] >> Yeah, yeah, they had quite a bit of it.
[01:32:10] So either there was a quantity in other
[01:32:13] other crafts or other reactors that they
[01:32:16] removed. Yeah.
[01:32:19] But was there any discussion that there
[01:32:21] had been some sort of an exchange where
[01:32:23] they had been giving this? No.
[01:32:25] So one of the things like do you know
[01:32:26] Diana Pasulka?
[01:32:28] She's an author that's written some
[01:32:30] interesting stuff about UFOs and she's
[01:32:33] worked with Gary Nolan and you know on
[01:32:36] material recollection from supposed
[01:32:38] crash crash sites.
[01:32:40] And
[01:32:41] she said that the way these researchers
[01:32:44] refer to these crafts they refer to them
[01:32:47] as donations.
[01:32:49] And I guess that's possible. Right.
[01:32:52] Well, doesn't it make sense if if this
[01:32:54] thing crashed, why is it perfect? Why is
[01:32:57] it not destroyed? Look, I I've heard so
[01:32:59] many I'm not into UFOs Right, which is
[01:33:02] hilarious.
[01:33:04] >> Yeah, that's that's crazy.
[01:33:06] Um I'm just interested in the technology
[01:33:08] and I feel very privileged to have been
[01:33:11] involved in the project. But um
[01:33:16] I don't know. I I I I don't I don't
[01:33:18] think
[01:33:19] I don't think there can be that many
[01:33:21] crashes, do you? No.
[01:33:23] >> technology, you think they're coming to
[01:33:25] Earth and just there's a
[01:33:27] a thunderstorm and they're crashing into
[01:33:29] the ground. I'm not I'm not buying that.
[01:33:31] >> There's one logical explanation that
[01:33:34] does actually make sense. There were
[01:33:36] some high altitude nuclear tests that
[01:33:39] they did.
[01:33:40] And
[01:33:41] >> Well, there was the Teak test, you know,
[01:33:43] back in the '60s.
[01:33:44] >> Starfish Prime. And Starfish Prime,
[01:33:46] right.
[01:33:46] >> Yeah. Um
[01:33:48] if you had no idea that this was about
[01:33:50] to happen and you were hovering over
[01:33:51] Earth observing us.
[01:33:53] >> What are the chances? I mean what are
[01:33:55] the chances? They're not very high.
[01:33:57] >> Yeah, they're not very I mean what are
[01:33:59] the chances a craft is coming over and
[01:34:00] they did a nuclear test that exact
[01:34:03] second? Unless there's a lot more
[01:34:06] observation than we know. And that they
[01:34:10] just
[01:34:11] observe us in a way that we can't see
[01:34:13] them. As especially if you're going back
[01:34:15] to the 1950s and 1960s
[01:34:17] we have very few satellites. We have
[01:34:19] very That was the nuclear cowboy era.
[01:34:22] >> Yeah. Where they were just Well, they
[01:34:24] just
[01:34:25] Starfish Prime, explain to people what
[01:34:26] they did. Yeah.
[01:34:28] I they did a 1.4 megaton, you know
[01:34:32] detonation up there and just
[01:34:34] I think all they did let's see what
[01:34:36] happens if we blow it up at this
[01:34:38] altitude. I mean that's crazy. You know,
[01:34:40] there was another
[01:34:42] test planned to blow up on the moon.
[01:34:45] Just just to make the Russians look uh
[01:34:48] you know like [laughter]
[01:34:50] like we were awesome. Um
[01:34:54] you know. But they
[01:34:56] >> Detonate the moon. What if they pushed
[01:34:58] it away and it up our orbit?
[01:35:00] Yeah, I think that would take a lot
[01:35:01] more. I know. I mean there was really I
[01:35:04] I don't remember what the uh
[01:35:07] the project
[01:35:08] Project A119.
[01:35:10] >> Oh, A119, that was it. Yeah, I
[01:35:12] >> Study of lunar research flights.
[01:35:14] Detonate nuclear Yeah, I I can't pull up
[01:35:17] these numbers, but yeah, A project
[01:35:19] A111A. Crazy. Yeah, we're going to do
[01:35:22] that. Because then like everybody on
[01:35:24] Earth could just go outside and look at
[01:35:26] the moon get blown up. And the
[01:35:30] >> [laughter]
[01:35:30] >> the explosion would be faintly visible
[01:35:32] to the human eye to people on Earth.
[01:35:34] >> Yeah. Wow.
[01:35:35] >> I still think they should have done
[01:35:36] that. But um
[01:35:38] >> [laughter]
[01:35:39] >> Yeah, but you're you're the guy that put
[01:35:40] a jet engine in the back of a Honda.
[01:35:42] Like let's see
[01:35:44] >> think they should detonate a nuclear
[01:35:46] bomb on the 4th of July every year.
[01:35:48] But that's just me.
[01:35:50] Um Well, also you live in Nevada
[01:35:52] >> [laughter]
[01:35:52] >> and it's more you're used to it at
[01:35:53] least. It had a long history of them
[01:35:55] doing that.
[01:35:57] Yeah, oh man. So going back to this uh
[01:36:00] reactor.
[01:36:01] So
[01:36:03] did how was it explained to you? Did
[01:36:05] they explain to you how the technology
[01:36:08] works or what they know about it? Like
[01:36:11] Now, the way it was explained to me is
[01:36:13] is
[01:36:15] when I got to be alone with Barry, he
[01:36:17] said he was excited to show this to me.
[01:36:20] He said I'm going to turn this is the
[01:36:22] reactor that we assume powers the craft.
[01:36:25] Sorry. No worries. I'm uh
[01:36:28] I'm going to uh show you the reactor
[01:36:30] that powers the craft. And he turned it
[01:36:33] on.
[01:36:34] Small little dome on a flat little
[01:36:36] plate.
[01:36:37] I said Was this in the craft or was this
[01:36:39] on a table?
[01:36:40] >> this is in the experimental area. Okay.
[01:36:43] And um So this was not the one that was
[01:36:45] in the sport craft, this was another
[01:36:46] one. This was another one.
[01:36:48] >> This is it right here.
[01:36:49] >> that's it. That's it. Okay, that's in
[01:36:50] the film.
[01:36:51] >> And yeah, on on the table and he had it
[01:36:54] there and he went over
[01:36:56] to the emitter and rotated it and he
[01:36:59] said try and touch it.
[01:37:01] And I put my hand on it and it it
[01:37:03] rebounded off. And I
[01:37:06] at the closer you got to it, the more it
[01:37:08] pushed back.
[01:37:09] And um that's that's a real shock
[01:37:12] because there's nothing that pushes back
[01:37:14] like that. That that's a that's a living
[01:37:16] force field, that's science fiction
[01:37:17] stuff.
[01:37:18] So
[01:37:19] um that really got my attention. So
[01:37:22] explain what is happening like in terms
[01:37:25] of the rotation of this thing?
[01:37:28] Like what it what is happening? Like
[01:37:29] what energy is going into it that's
[01:37:31] causing it to go on? Well, actually we
[01:37:33] don't know that.
[01:37:35] I mean that that's the whole thing. It's
[01:37:38] it's pushing back. That's a
[01:37:40] it's a repulsive gravitational field.
[01:37:43] Like as far as we know gravity gravity
[01:37:47] only has an attractive force to it.
[01:37:49] We've never even with any matter
[01:37:52] we've analyzed it and it still has
[01:37:55] an attractive force to it. There's no
[01:37:57] repulsive force that we've discovered.
[01:38:01] Because that would be a great propulsion
[01:38:03] system.
[01:38:04] But this repulsed.
[01:38:07] So this was a a new field completely.
[01:38:10] >> But how was he turning it on? He had
[01:38:13] the emitter, which is a big pipe. Part
[01:38:15] of What is an emitter? Like what is
[01:38:20] The craft itself has on the main level
[01:38:24] has the reactor
[01:38:26] and what we call the amplifiers. Three
[01:38:28] react the reactor and three amplifiers.
[01:38:31] Right underneath that
[01:38:33] there are three emitters
[01:38:36] that are right under the amplifiers. And
[01:38:38] we believe the energy
[01:38:41] from the reactor is amplified by the
[01:38:43] emitters.
[01:38:45] And By the amplifiers. By the
[01:38:47] amplifiers, sorry. And transmitted to
[01:38:50] the emitters.
[01:38:52] And they produce this field that lifts
[01:38:54] the craft off the ground.
[01:38:56] And that's how it works. But there is
[01:38:58] nothing
[01:39:00] nothing even in our physics or our
[01:39:02] science that
[01:39:04] that correlates to that at all.
[01:39:06] >> And what is the energy that's going to
[01:39:08] them that causes it to turn on? don't
[01:39:10] >> I mean we just assume it's gravity
[01:39:12] because it's the only thing we know like
[01:39:14] that, but
[01:39:16] it has a negative gravity effect. So,
[01:39:21] it might be a new force entirely.
[01:39:23] But when you were saying, so you have
[01:39:25] this machine that's next to it that you
[01:39:28] do something to that causes it to turn
[01:39:30] on. The emitter. The right. There's the
[01:39:33] amplifier and there's the emitter which
[01:39:35] looks like a big pipe. Right. And if you
[01:39:37] rotate the emitter, I don't remember how
[01:39:40] many degrees was it? 20 degrees?
[01:39:42] >> Three 20 degrees or something like that.
[01:39:45] That connects it in some way
[01:39:49] to
[01:39:50] the reactor and it begins to be powered.
[01:39:53] >> And what is the emitter doing?
[01:39:56] It emits that field.
[01:39:59] It's not a gravitate
[01:40:00] It could be a gravitational field, but
[01:40:02] it's an anti-gravitational field that
[01:40:04] pushes on the ground. And what's
[01:40:07] happening in the emitter? Did you study
[01:40:08] the emitter? Well, we attempted to, but
[01:40:10] no.
[01:40:12] There was nothing that we really came up
[01:40:13] with that.
[01:40:15] But what does it look like? Like what's
[01:40:16] the internal structure of it?
[01:40:18] >> It's just it's a hollow pipe with
[01:40:22] I guess
[01:40:24] little copper colored plates all inside.
[01:40:27] It's kind of in the in the film. Mhm. Um
[01:40:32] But this
[01:40:33] I mean, these guys have been working on
[01:40:36] it for years before I got there and
[01:40:38] there was really no
[01:40:41] no concept of what they were doing.
[01:40:44] Did they explain to you why element 115
[01:40:47] is crucial to this working and what
[01:40:49] >> No, but
[01:40:50] no.
[01:40:52] So, element 115 um
[01:40:55] was
[01:40:56] not even really discussed back when you
[01:40:58] were doing this. It was
[01:40:59] It wasn't even discovered or proven
[01:41:02] physically until it was a large hadron
[01:41:06] collider experiment in the 2000s, right?
[01:41:10] No, I know they they synthesized that.
[01:41:13] But look, and you know, in in any
[01:41:15] element there's always
[01:41:19] there's always a large amount of
[01:41:23] um
[01:41:24] Well, it did It doesn't decay.
[01:41:26] Yeah.
[01:41:28] That was the thing about in the large
[01:41:30] hadron collider experiment, they they
[01:41:32] were able to achieve it, but it only
[01:41:34] existed for a few milliseconds. Yeah.
[01:41:37] Sorry, I've had too much. No worries.
[01:41:42] So,
[01:41:42] >> um
[01:41:44] did they
[01:41:45] How did they define this material?
[01:41:48] >> I mean, there's different isotopes of of
[01:41:51] every element.
[01:41:52] And
[01:41:54] element 115, just like any other
[01:41:56] element,
[01:41:57] uh there can be a stable version of it
[01:42:00] and a hundred or 50 different unstable
[01:42:04] elements to them.
[01:42:06] So,
[01:42:08] >> [sighs]
[01:42:11] >> I'm sorry. No, no, it's all right. Just
[01:42:13] try to
[01:42:14] continue the train of thought. So, It's
[01:42:16] basically different isotopes of it.
[01:42:18] Yeah, different isotopes. I've I need to
[01:42:21] stop drinking this.
[01:42:22] >> [laughter]
[01:42:23] >> It's all right. Have a cup of coffee.
[01:42:26] I can't even remember. Yeah, so coffee's
[01:42:28] good. Oh, we got coffee.
[01:42:30] Oh my god.
[01:42:31] All right. Holy cow. There you go. Let
[01:42:34] it hop. Um Yeah, there's I mean, there's
[01:42:37] there's different isotopes. And you were
[01:42:38] able to physically touch this element
[01:42:41] Oh, absolutely. I was physically
[01:42:45] physically able to touch the element.
[01:42:47] Yeah. But when you're physically able to
[01:42:48] touch it, there's no adverse effects. It
[01:42:50] doesn't have any effect on the Feel like
[01:42:52] metal? Does it feel like plastic?
[01:42:55] >> It looks copper like. I mean, maybe it's
[01:42:58] not as dark as copper is, but it it's
[01:43:01] that color. Um
[01:43:04] and
[01:43:06] uh I haven't seen an element like that.
[01:43:08] It has unique properties that other
[01:43:10] elements don't have. It produces
[01:43:14] an anti-gravitational field.
[01:43:17] When combined with energy.
[01:43:20] With some kind of energy it produces
[01:43:21] this field.
[01:43:22] >> Yeah.
[01:43:23] And was it understood what is happening?
[01:43:25] Like what is the relationship between
[01:43:27] this element and this Like how is What
[01:43:30] is going on?
[01:43:32] Like you're bombarding this element with
[01:43:34] something? Yeah, I
[01:43:36] From what we understood, we x-rayed the
[01:43:39] reactor itself
[01:43:41] and there was a path around it
[01:43:44] that looked It made it look like a
[01:43:46] cyclotron. So,
[01:43:49] it looked like
[01:43:50] there was an accelerator.
[01:43:52] So, when they were explaining it to you,
[01:43:56] is is is this just your work partner
[01:43:59] that's explaining this stuff to you?
[01:44:01] >> Yes, it's it's just Barry that's
[01:44:02] explaining
[01:44:02] >> And did you ask him, how do you know
[01:44:04] this? Where are you getting this from?
[01:44:06] Is this
[01:44:07] Yeah, he got this information prior to
[01:44:09] me.
[01:44:10] Um
[01:44:11] and they x-rayed it,
[01:44:14] found
[01:44:16] um a a structure in there to where they
[01:44:19] believed it was an accelerator and it
[01:44:21] was interacting
[01:44:23] the point of the one The 115 is in a
[01:44:26] little triangular
[01:44:28] piece Mhm. and it was um interacting
[01:44:32] with that in some fashion. So,
[01:44:35] And did he say whether or not the United
[01:44:39] States government or whoever was doing
[01:44:41] this research had tried to recreate one
[01:44:43] of those on their own?
[01:44:45] That uh that was our job to try to
[01:44:47] recreate one of those on their own. But
[01:44:49] what was the metal that it was made out
[01:44:51] of?
[01:44:52] We don't know. We don't know.
[01:44:53] >> Again, the metallurgy was not that was
[01:44:56] not
[01:44:58] It seems insane that you couldn't
[01:44:59] communicate to them that whatever this
[01:45:02] stuff is made out of, this whole thing
[01:45:05] acts as one cohesive unit. It's not like
[01:45:07] you could make the same exact thing with
[01:45:09] aluminum or carbon fiber.
[01:45:11] >> No, you can't. This thing acted
[01:45:13] differently.
[01:45:14] This thing acted differently than any
[01:45:16] material that we knew.
[01:45:18] And I mean, I think all the answers are
[01:45:21] in the metallurgy guys. It you know,
[01:45:23] that's That's who knew what was going
[01:45:26] on, who was able to provide the answers.
[01:45:29] But um
[01:45:31] as far as we knew, if we didn't have the
[01:45:34] connection with those other groups, we
[01:45:36] weren't really going to make any
[01:45:37] progress.
[01:45:38] You were speculating that there was a
[01:45:41] type of
[01:45:43] metallic alloy that would work better
[01:45:46] with
[01:45:48] this concept. Was it Byzantine? Like
[01:45:52] what what was
[01:45:52] >> Bismuth. Bismuth, yes.
[01:45:55] Did I say that?
[01:45:56] >> think so. I don't know. I don't think
[01:45:58] so. No. Someone Someone that I talked to
[01:46:00] was explaining to me.
[01:46:01] >> It's related to on the periodic table. I
[01:46:03] mean, bismuth is above it and 115 is
[01:46:06] below it. But um we never did see any
[01:46:09] correlation between bismuth. This was a
[01:46:12] completely new material. Well, I think
[01:46:13] Oh, that's what it was. Oh, this is what
[01:46:15] it was. So, one of the pieces that Gary
[01:46:18] Nolan had [clears throat] found that was
[01:46:21] Gary Nolan is the guy to Stanford that
[01:46:24] has examined these pieces that are from
[01:46:27] supposedly crashed sites crash sites
[01:46:31] where something had gone down and
[01:46:33] scattered.
[01:46:34] Some of these pieces, they're atomically
[01:46:36] layered and
[01:46:38] >> I've heard that.
[01:46:39] >> magnesium and bismuth seem to be
[01:46:41] prevalent in this.
[01:46:42] >> Bismuth is the thing. Yeah. Bismuth is
[01:46:44] the thing. It's right above 115 on the
[01:46:46] periodic chart and there's Yeah, there's
[01:46:49] something about that. There's something
[01:46:50] about 115. Yeah. There's weird magnetism
[01:46:53] stuff with bismuth. There's a video from
[01:46:55] the Action Lab, The Strange Magnetism of
[01:46:57] Bismuth. And it's showing a bunch of
[01:47:01] >> Yeah.
[01:47:02] So, let him play it out a little bit.
[01:47:05] I'm trying to find the
[01:47:06] What is diamagnetic?
[01:47:08] >> Diamagnetic is it opposes magnetic
[01:47:10] fields. I see.
[01:47:12] So, it kind of makes sense if they're
[01:47:14] finding these pieces that are
[01:47:18] the way he was explaining
[01:47:19] >> Bismuth. That's bismuth, yeah. the way
[01:47:20] he's explaining this whatever this alloy
[01:47:23] was, this very small piece that was
[01:47:24] found, I believe in
[01:47:27] prior to the 1970s. I don't remember the
[01:47:29] exact date that he said. From one of
[01:47:30] these crash One of them was from Brazil
[01:47:32] that they had recovered. And someone had
[01:47:34] gotten possession of it in the 1990s and
[01:47:37] someone had gotten it eventually to Gary
[01:47:39] Nolan.
[01:47:40] He said that to create this on Earth,
[01:47:42] first of all, it can't be done with
[01:47:44] current technology. We don't have the
[01:47:45] ability to do this.
[01:47:47] >> technology?
[01:47:48] >> Yes. And that it would cost billions of
[01:47:50] dollars
[01:47:51] just theoretically to make this and it's
[01:47:54] It doesn't exist.
[01:47:57] Yeah, this is it. Alleged
[01:47:58] extraterrestrial metal the bottom of a
[01:48:00] wedge shaped craft in 1940s. 26
[01:48:03] alternating layers, 1 to 4 microns dark
[01:48:06] bismuth
[01:48:08] with a hundred to two hundred microns of
[01:48:10] silver magnesium zinc alloy. Each piece
[01:48:13] received from the US Army source were
[01:48:15] formed with a curvature that tapered.
[01:48:18] Oh, in the four in the 40s. Yeah. Right.
[01:48:21] That good good luck making that in the
[01:48:22] 40s.
[01:48:23] >> says a wedge
[01:48:24] wedge shaped craft in late 1940s. That's
[01:48:26] Roswell. I mean, that's that's Roswell.
[01:48:29] Well, I mean, what What does it do? I
[01:48:32] would like to see the test results of
[01:48:34] just the material.
[01:48:36] Um we can make that now.
[01:48:39] We can?
[01:48:40] Yeah. 1 to 4 microns of bismuth?
[01:48:43] 200 microns of silver? Yeah.
[01:48:47] The thing is like making something like
[01:48:48] that in the 1940s is absolutely
[01:48:50] impossible.
[01:48:50] >> in the 40s, forget it.
[01:48:52] >> But I mean, now we could fabricate
[01:48:54] something like that.
[01:48:55] >> And it would cost a shitload of money.
[01:48:56] So, like the idea that you would make
[01:48:58] something like that and just scatter it
[01:48:59] around and go, But what But what does it
[01:49:01] do? Right. What does it do? Why? Why is
[01:49:04] magnesium and bismuth why in that
[01:49:06] particular
[01:49:08] >> There is something about Bismuth.
[01:49:10] There was something about Bismuth. But
[01:49:12] that's that's why it's so fascinating. I
[01:49:13] would I would love to know where they
[01:49:15] Like it's been 40 years. I would love to
[01:49:18] know Where they're at now. Yeah, where
[01:49:19] they're at now. If they continued.
[01:49:22] Well, they had to have continued. I
[01:49:23] can't I can't imagine you go, "Ah, we're
[01:49:24] done."
[01:49:26] No, I mean they might have moved it. I
[01:49:28] mean like I like I said before I mean
[01:49:29] they were anxious to move it out of
[01:49:31] there at that time.
[01:49:32] But Are you aware of
[01:49:35] the labyrinths in Egypt that they
[01:49:39] discovered?
[01:49:41] So, there's this
[01:49:42] >> Are you talking about the The columns.
[01:49:44] Columns on the
[01:49:45] >> no. This is unrelated. This is something
[01:49:47] different. So, Herodotus discussed this.
[01:49:49] Now, my friend Ben Van Kerkwijk, he has
[01:49:52] UnchartedX on
[01:49:54] YouTube. It's an amazing channel where
[01:49:56] he was a tech guy who just got
[01:49:59] absolutely fascinated by all these
[01:50:02] stories of ancient history and really
[01:50:03] got obsessed with Egypt and Peru and and
[01:50:07] left his field and started making these
[01:50:09] incredible videos. But he's highly
[01:50:12] intelligent incredibly articulate. And
[01:50:14] so these videos are just absolutely
[01:50:16] fantastic and really uh
[01:50:20] he's he's
[01:50:22] very well versed scientifically so you
[01:50:24] can understand these things and explain
[01:50:26] them to you. Like they're examining like
[01:50:29] the construction of the pyramids and the
[01:50:31] whatever technology was used to carve
[01:50:33] the stones and there's just so much of
[01:50:36] it that is like confusing because it's
[01:50:38] it clearly is like a very high level of
[01:50:42] sophistication and technology that's
[01:50:43] involved in creating these things. Well,
[01:50:45] Herodotus described these labyrinths
[01:50:48] that were underground in Giza. Not not
[01:50:51] not in Giza, but Hawara? Is that where
[01:50:53] it was?
[01:50:54] Jimmy will find it. But this these the
[01:50:58] way Herodotus described it he said they
[01:51:00] were far superior and more impressive
[01:51:03] than the the the pyramids of Giza.
[01:51:06] Underground. Well, these massive
[01:51:10] labyrinths that exist underground were
[01:51:12] all flooded in the 1960s accidentally
[01:51:15] when they created dams in order to
[01:51:18] provide irrigation to agriculture that
[01:51:21] was in the area. So, they changed the
[01:51:22] water table, it up. This whole
[01:51:24] area got flooded.
[01:51:25] >> Did they know they were there when they
[01:51:27] accidentally
[01:51:28] >> because a lot of this stuff like this is
[01:51:30] from thousands and thousands of years
[01:51:31] ago. A lot of it was covered over with
[01:51:33] sand and you know, there had there had
[01:51:35] been some explorers a long time ago that
[01:51:38] went there and saw some of what was in
[01:51:40] there. But the way Herodotus described
[01:51:42] it it's just absolutely fantastic.
[01:51:45] So, then they started using ground
[01:51:46] penetrating radar. And they started
[01:51:49] using these various technologies that
[01:51:50] could detect what was under the surface.
[01:51:52] And one of the things that they found
[01:51:54] was there's a massive atrium. And inside
[01:51:57] this atrium yes.
[01:51:58] >> There is a 40 m long metallic object
[01:52:03] that is inside this atrium.
[01:52:06] 40 m of some unknown metal. How deep is
[01:52:09] it?
[01:52:10] I believe it's 100 m into the ground.
[01:52:13] So, you're telling me ground penetrating
[01:52:15] radar can get to 100 m underground and
[01:52:18] >> that
[01:52:19] Filippo Bondi has used from satellites
[01:52:22] The one that we were talking about.
[01:52:23] >> more than a kilometer into the ground.
[01:52:26] And
[01:52:27] >> With decent resolution? Well, No. not
[01:52:30] decent resolution, but enough that you
[01:52:32] could see symmetry. Enough that they can
[01:52:34] also detect things that are well known.
[01:52:36] 100 m is for chambers Well, listen to
[01:52:38] this. They got they detected accurately
[01:52:42] a particle collider in Italy that is
[01:52:45] inside of a mountain 1.2 km below the
[01:52:49] mountain. It sees through the mountain
[01:52:51] and can detect this thing in the exact
[01:52:53] diameter the exact
[01:52:56] dimensions that this thing exist. So,
[01:52:58] they can show you this
[01:53:00] >> Yes. A particle collider? Yes. So, this
[01:53:04] is a particle collider that they they
[01:53:05] know exists, right? So, this is an
[01:53:07] actual particle collider
[01:53:08] >> looking for it just to prove So, they
[01:53:10] they just it's just proof that this
[01:53:11] technology is not just
[01:53:12] >> Well, wait. I mean hang on. I mean how
[01:53:15] do they know it's a particle collider?
[01:53:16] >> No, no. Well, no, the particle collider
[01:53:18] exists. This is a the the the Italians
[01:53:20] have this particle collider. It it it
[01:53:23] it's known. They made it. It's like it's
[01:53:25] >> Okay, they they didn't detect something
[01:53:27] underground. Right. No, it's not like we
[01:53:29] found a particle collider that didn't
[01:53:30] exist.
[01:53:31] No, no, no, no. So, this [laughter]
[01:53:32] particle collider they used this
[01:53:34] technology to show that you can see
[01:53:37] straight through this mountain to this
[01:53:40] particle collider that's underneath the
[01:53:41] mountain.
[01:53:43] So, they know the the exact dimensions
[01:53:44] of this particle collider. You can see
[01:53:46] you can almost draw a schematic of it.
[01:53:48] Well, through this technology they've
[01:53:50] also found these columns that are below
[01:53:52] the pyramids. These columns are 22 m 20
[01:53:56] plus meters in diameter and they have
[01:54:00] something that resembles coils around
[01:54:03] all of them. And they're positioned at
[01:54:05] various points all around where the
[01:54:08] structure is. It goes all the way down
[01:54:10] into hundreds of meters down and then it
[01:54:12] goes to another structure and the whole
[01:54:14] complex of it these structures goes to
[01:54:17] over a kilometer into the ground.
[01:54:19] >> But how can you see a kilometer
[01:54:20] underground? Well, you would have to
[01:54:22] understand this technology. What it it
[01:54:24] was it called radio tomography? He
[01:54:26] explained it to me.
[01:54:28] >> aperture radar, right? Yes. Well,
[01:54:31] whatever this technology
[01:54:32] >> a kilometer underground at decent
[01:54:34] resolution? It's not decent resolution,
[01:54:36] but it's enough to understand the scope
[01:54:38] of what it is. It's enough to understand
[01:54:40] where spaces are Like everybody knows
[01:54:42] about this but me. I mean
[01:54:45] It's pretty fascinating. I'll send you
[01:54:47] the podcast and I'll send you some of
[01:54:49] his conferences where he was explaining
[01:54:51] this to room fills with scientists.
[01:54:54] >> You would think they'd be anxious to dig
[01:54:55] this up.
[01:54:56] >> They are.
[01:54:57] And there's there's there's actual like
[01:54:59] studies that are Okay. currently being
[01:55:01] discussed. Well, they already know that
[01:55:03] there's these channels that go in the
[01:55:05] ground that have since been covered with
[01:55:07] silt and sand because you know the the
[01:55:10] sand's constantly moving. But these
[01:55:11] things go hundreds of meters down these
[01:55:13] shafts that go down. Like if they find
[01:55:15] hundreds of If they find shafts hundreds
[01:55:18] of meters down with coils around them
[01:55:20] Look, that's advanced technology.
[01:55:22] >> Exactly. This is the point. This is the
[01:55:24] [clears throat] point.
[01:55:25] Whatever this thing is that they have in
[01:55:28] an atrium. Like if they said that they
[01:55:29] got that craft from an archaeological
[01:55:31] dig
[01:55:33] I mean what
[01:55:35] Maybe the Egyptians had found something
[01:55:38] similar to this thousands and thousands
[01:55:40] and thousands of years ago.
[01:55:41] >> believe that's possible. Yeah.
[01:55:44] Well,
[01:55:45] The object that you're I didn't I
[01:55:47] actually got to speak to Filippo Bondi
[01:55:49] by the way.
[01:55:50] He's in Italy he's in Rome we got to
[01:55:52] speak I speak Italian so we got to talk
[01:55:54] and we talked about that. I had no idea
[01:55:56] they found something with a metal object
[01:55:59] down there though. This is not Filippo
[01:56:00] Bondi's work. This is some different
[01:56:03] scientists that are just studying the
[01:56:05] labyrinths. Jimmy, pull up some some of
[01:56:07] the schematics of the labyrinth. So, in
[01:56:10] the labyrinth there's like a big
[01:56:12] >> Sorry.
[01:56:13] atrium. You got to pee again? Yeah. Go
[01:56:14] ahead. Go ahead.
[01:56:15] >> Sorry. Head up. Yeah.
[01:56:16] Go ahead. I feel like a ass.
[01:56:17] >> Don't worry about it. Get some air.
[01:56:20] Clear your head. I have a prostate. So,
[01:56:22] in this in this labyrinth there's a
[01:56:25] large atrium. And in this large atrium
[01:56:28] there is essentially a Tic Tac
[01:56:31] >> Really? a Tic Tac shaped object that is
[01:56:35] 40 m long that is of some unknown metal.
[01:56:40] They don't know what it is. They don't
[01:56:41] know how it works. But this is this
[01:56:42] structure is all underground
[01:56:46] in Egypt.
[01:56:47] >> Which is wild because and how how it's
[01:56:49] 100 m? Well, look at Well, we'll get a
[01:56:52] chance to look at it. This is Hawara.
[01:56:54] So, So, there where it says the 40 m
[01:56:57] metallic object. See that where it says
[01:56:59] Hawara Rising?
[01:57:00] >> Yeah. So, if you click on that it talks
[01:57:02] about the 40 m metallic object
[01:57:04] discovered in Egyptians.
[01:57:07] I don't think I can't We can't read a
[01:57:08] report on that.
[01:57:09] >> Subterranean labyrinth. Yeah. This is
[01:57:11] people talking about it.
[01:57:11] >> Right. Got it. But so whatever it is,
[01:57:15] you play out some of the video just so
[01:57:16] we could talk about it.
[01:57:18] >> [snorts]
[01:57:19] >> So,
[01:57:20] this this whole thing if you see some of
[01:57:23] the images that they're discussing
[01:57:25] friends Luis Dacordier will get into
[01:57:27] images I think. And today we're
[01:57:29] Yeah. about the work that I um Chicago
[01:57:33] Huh. uh and the team that was in uh
[01:57:36] Poland as well.
[01:57:38] And at that point is when I had met the
[01:57:40] person Lucinda Lubis
[01:57:42] who later became my wife 6 months later.
[01:57:46] So, yeah, you you actually
[01:57:48] um
[01:57:49] were working with the NRA G and then the
[01:57:51] I don't know what they're talking about.
[01:57:52] Yeah, that is not going to help us. But
[01:57:54] if you could just go to some of the
[01:57:56] images where they've sort of outlined
[01:57:58] what it is.
[01:57:59] >> find it. I That's
[01:58:00] There is not a very clear image of the
[01:58:02] metallic object that
[01:58:04] they're talking
[01:58:04] >> But just the labyrinth itself what they
[01:58:06] think the structure of it was. That's
[01:58:07] why I I don't know where they got this
[01:58:08] from is also the other issue.
[01:58:10] >> m mystery metal object that
[01:58:12] >> That's a weird rendering that doesn't
[01:58:14] usually come out from Right, but there's
[01:58:15] some other drawings of like from the
[01:58:18] Herodotus days and
[01:58:19] >> Yeah, but I
[01:58:20] Like so, this is what they think it
[01:58:21] looks like under the ground.
[01:58:24] >> [snorts]
[01:58:25] >> Which is completely bonkers. And
[01:58:27] if there is some 40 m metallic object
[01:58:30] that's under the ground and we are
[01:58:31] talking about like the sport model being
[01:58:33] a part of an archaeological Right. They
[01:58:35] might have found something back then
[01:58:38] and worshiped that thing and had that
[01:58:40] thing as like
[01:58:41] >> They turned it into this. Right. As a
[01:58:43] pyramid Yeah.
[01:58:45] I I I I think there's something to that.
[01:58:48] Well, there
[01:58:49] you know, all these people that believe
[01:58:51] that there was a incredibly advanced
[01:58:53] civilization before some sort of
[01:58:54] apocalyptic disaster that
[01:58:57] reset civilization and it took thousands
[01:59:00] of years. And what we are essentially is
[01:59:03] not the first advanced civilization but
[01:59:05] a rebuild. A rebuild thousands and
[01:59:08] thousands and thousands of years later.
[01:59:10] You know, that rings true with me. And
[01:59:14] as Graham Hancock always says, we are a
[01:59:16] species with amnesia. And I think that
[01:59:18] makes sense. And I think if you're
[01:59:20] dealing with people that were basically
[01:59:22] knocked back into the Stone Age 11,000,
[01:59:25] 12,000 years ago and it took us forever
[01:59:27] to rebuild to where we are now. I think
[01:59:29] we've gone down a completely different
[01:59:31] path than whatever the people that were
[01:59:33] able to build the pyramids of Egypt and
[01:59:35] all these fantastic megalithic
[01:59:37] structures were in in a we don't
[01:59:39] understand the technology we used. We
[01:59:42] don't And it doesn't it literally
[01:59:43] doesn't make sense that they were able
[01:59:45] to do this. It's even like when we see
[01:59:47] those big gigantic stones and they're
[01:59:48] not just piled together. They're like
[01:59:50] interlocked in weird shapes and all
[01:59:52] that. It's like how do we how did that
[01:59:53] happen? I mean that you know, those are
[01:59:55] the things that yeah, I agree with you.
[01:59:56] >> Yeah, archaeologists are very reluctant
[01:59:58] to admit it but there's tremendous
[02:00:00] evidence that not only were these people
[02:00:02] far more advanced than we think people
[02:00:05] should have been back then but they're
[02:00:07] probably more advanced than we are now
[02:00:09] with some
[02:00:11] different kind of technology. And maybe
[02:00:14] like again, it's like a it's like
[02:00:16] advanced but in a different way. Right.
[02:00:18] Right cuz otherwise
[02:00:20] >> pathway. They didn't go
[02:00:21] >> our way. Yeah, they didn't go internal
[02:00:23] combustion engine and electronics
[02:00:25] >> Cuz we would see something.
[02:00:26] >> Exactly.
[02:00:27] >> Right. But might not if you're thinking
[02:00:29] about a 100,000 years ago. There might
[02:00:31] not be anything left which is part of
[02:00:32] the problem. But whatever this metallic
[02:00:35] object is, if they are able to figure
[02:00:38] out a way to divert some of the water
[02:00:40] there
[02:00:41] see all layers converge at a central
[02:00:43] corridor or avenue, he said, like the
[02:00:45] atrium of shopping mall where you can
[02:00:47] see all floors from one vantage point. A
[02:00:50] hall consisting of a massive space 40 m
[02:00:53] wide and no less than 100 m long. My
[02:00:55] personal interpretation, Tim said, is
[02:00:57] that the entire hall was constructed to
[02:00:59] house a centrally positioned
[02:01:01] free-standing object about 40 m long.
[02:01:05] Wow. So this hall, they believe was
[02:01:06] constructed to house whatever this 40-m
[02:01:10] long unknown metallic object is.
[02:01:12] >> not dig that up? Well, they could but
[02:01:14] it's going to cost an immense amount of
[02:01:16] money. And the thing is about the
[02:01:17] Egyptians the people that run it, I had
[02:01:20] one of them on the podcast, Zahi Hawass,
[02:01:23] and he's incredibly dogmatic about his
[02:01:25] ideas of who built this and what. And
[02:01:28] when you say, "How did they make these
[02:01:30] structures? 2 million, 300,000 stones
[02:01:32] that weigh between 2 and 80 tons. The
[02:01:35] biggest stones cut from quarries that
[02:01:37] were hundreds of miles away through the
[02:01:38] mountain." And it's like, "This was a
[02:01:40] national project." Yeah, man. The
[02:01:41] Egyptians did everything because
[02:01:43] [laughter] they were awesome. Yeah. I'm
[02:01:45] sure they were awesome. I'm sure they
[02:01:47] were awesome but it doesn't explain the
[02:01:48] technology involved cuz there's extreme
[02:01:50] technology. Just to be able to cut those
[02:01:53] things. Like one of the things that they
[02:01:55] don't understand is these vases.
[02:01:57] These vases that they made that are
[02:01:59] perfectly Yeah. perfectly designed where
[02:02:03] there's the the difference between like
[02:02:06] the edges and the symmetry is like a
[02:02:08] thousandth of a human hair. And these
[02:02:11] are cut out of incredibly hard granite.
[02:02:13] They don't Really? I've never heard
[02:02:15] Yeah. Yeah. You guys are familiar with
[02:02:17] that.
[02:02:17] >> This is a 3D print of one of them that
[02:02:20] exists.
[02:02:21] >> Yeah, and they're fascinated by the
[02:02:22] perfection and they're saying how did
[02:02:24] they do that? We don't even know how to
[02:02:26] do that. incredibly hard stone.
[02:02:28] >> Built with an incredible precision. Yes.
[02:02:32] Incredibly
[02:02:33] incredibly hard granite, incredible
[02:02:35] precision back when they had no metal
[02:02:37] alloys. They had copper tools. It
[02:02:39] doesn't make any sense. None of it makes
[02:02:41] any sense. Then there's the symmetry
[02:02:44] involved in some of these statues. Like
[02:02:47] they're perfectly symmetrical in terms
[02:02:49] of the distance between the eyes, the
[02:02:50] nose, the lips. Most No one's face is
[02:02:53] symmetrical. Your your left side of your
[02:02:54] face is different. If you combine the
[02:02:56] two sides, they they look it looks
[02:02:58] weird. But when you look at these
[02:03:00] statues, these statues which are
[02:03:02] massive, carved out of granite again,
[02:03:05] supposedly before they had steel. Like
[02:03:07] they didn't have diamond-tipped
[02:03:09] instruments to do this. They polished
[02:03:11] them. They're perfectly symmetrical and
[02:03:13] massive. Some of them are a thousand
[02:03:15] tons. And they don't have any
[02:03:17] understanding of how these people built
[02:03:18] these things or put them there. And they
[02:03:20] all seem to be the biggest, most
[02:03:22] spectacular ones are the oldest.
[02:03:25] How could you not want to dig those up?
[02:03:28] Yeah, well they And look and look at
[02:03:30] them because I mean they're concerned
[02:03:32] about national pride but if you dig them
[02:03:34] up, I It's not just national pride. It's
[02:03:37] the pride of the people that have been
[02:03:38] espousing this one narrative for so
[02:03:41] long. That's part of the problem. The
[02:03:42] gatekeepers of the information.
[02:03:44] >> It's still national pride.
[02:03:46] >> It is but these people are idiots. That
[02:03:48] that's part of the problem. Like they
[02:03:50] their own ego is preventing them from
[02:03:52] being open-minded and calling out to the
[02:03:55] world's research communities and saying,
[02:03:57] "Listen, there's something going on
[02:03:59] here. We don't have the big picture. We
[02:04:01] have a picture that we have formed from
[02:04:04] a limited amount of information and
[02:04:05] we've been incredibly arrogant about
[02:04:07] what we're assuming. We also know that a
[02:04:09] lot of these pharaohs would carve their
[02:04:12] name and carve their hieroglyphs into
[02:04:15] existing things. They would claim
[02:04:17] existing things. Some of the carvings on
[02:04:19] these things are far cruder in the way
[02:04:22] they've done it than the actual
[02:04:23] construction of the thing. And they
[02:04:25] think that these are old things that
[02:04:27] were there already and then these later
[02:04:29] pharaohs Just wanted to attach his name.
[02:04:32] >> chiseled their hieroglyphs into these
[02:04:33] things.
[02:04:35] And another thing and this has been
[02:04:38] mentioned a lot is the fact that there's
[02:04:40] no tools that were ever discovered in
[02:04:43] those areas that would prove that those
[02:04:46] thing that those things were made with
[02:04:47] those and they have to use tools. They
[02:04:48] have to have something. So there's not
[02:04:50] even that. That's not even available. So
[02:04:52] it's like how did they do it? Did they
[02:04:54] hide the tools? Did they I mean why
[02:04:57] would they do that? It doesn't None of
[02:04:59] it makes any sense. And also these
[02:05:01] incredibly hard vases that you find,
[02:05:03] they're the oldest ones. They're the the
[02:05:05] things that they find in the oldest
[02:05:06] sites. It's like the most complicated,
[02:05:08] complex, confusing technology seems to
[02:05:11] be the oldest stuff.
[02:05:12] There's also like You had another guy
[02:05:14] here that that does a research on Peru
[02:05:18] and he was talk I can't remember his
[02:05:19] name. I got to meet him. Luke Caverns?
[02:05:22] Was it him?
[02:05:23] >> Yeah, he goes to Peru and he has a show
[02:05:24] about that about the the ancient stuff
[02:05:26] that they're finding underground in
[02:05:28] Peru.
[02:05:28] >> There's a couple guys. What was the
[02:05:29] other guy?
[02:05:30] He
[02:05:31] He's got black hair. I can't remember
[02:05:33] his name.
[02:05:33] >> That's Luke. The younger guy?
[02:05:34] >> Yeah, younger guy.
[02:05:35] >> Luke. So basically he was talking about
[02:05:38] the fact that there's two layers of
[02:05:40] ancient stuff in Peru. The first layer
[02:05:42] is younger and what's below it is what's
[02:05:45] really incredible and more complex.
[02:05:47] >> More complex but they don't want to go
[02:05:49] there because you're going to destroy an
[02:05:51] existing archaeological site that's on
[02:05:54] top of it.
[02:05:55] So what's happening is they're having
[02:05:56] trouble now getting permission to go to
[02:05:59] the lower level which is even better
[02:06:01] because they're they're going to have to
[02:06:02] break an archaeological site of a of a
[02:06:06] more recent
[02:06:07] part of that civilization.
[02:06:09] >> is a common theme among people. We build
[02:06:12] on older sites. There's a place that I
[02:06:14] go to in Italy in the Amalfi Coast and
[02:06:16] there's this incredible old
[02:06:18] church there that's over a thousand
[02:06:20] years old. But it's built on an even
[02:06:22] older church and there's a plexiglass
[02:06:25] floor that shows the old church.
[02:06:27] >> Yes. That the old church is underneath
[02:06:29] it and you can see the structure of this
[02:06:30] old church. And I was asking them, "How
[02:06:32] old is the old church?" They go, "We
[02:06:33] don't know."
[02:06:35] It's over a thousand years old. So it's
[02:06:37] over a thousand years old this church
[02:06:39] and then this really old church is on
[02:06:41] top of it that's like hundreds and
[02:06:43] hundreds of years old also. But they
[02:06:45] built it on top of an existing
[02:06:47] structure. So this is a common theme.
[02:06:49] This is a theme in Peru where you see
[02:06:51] the Inca construction which is like much
[02:06:54] less complicated, smaller stones, you
[02:06:57] know, mud mortar and it but it's on top
[02:06:59] of these megalithic structures that are
[02:07:01] carved in these jigsaw shapes where it
[02:07:04] seems like they're they've been melted.
[02:07:06] Yeah. It's freaky stuff. They have no
[02:07:09] understanding of what technology was
[02:07:10] used, who did it, how they did it, how
[02:07:12] they moved these immense thousand-ton
[02:07:15] stones and cut them with precision in
[02:07:17] this jigsaw way so that it will absorb
[02:07:19] the energy of earthquakes and not fall
[02:07:22] down.
[02:07:23] Yeah, that's crazy. I mean that's crazy.
[02:07:25] >> There's a lot of that stuff that's
[02:07:27] really, really freaky. And then you get
[02:07:29] into old religious texts and that's when
[02:07:32] things get really freaky. You get to
[02:07:34] things like the Book of Enoch that talk
[02:07:36] about the watchers who came down from
[02:07:38] the sky and created humans. A lot of
[02:07:40] unusual stuff happened a long time a
[02:07:44] long time ago. And we don't have a good
[02:07:46] record of it. We just have what we know
[02:07:49] and what we know we get very arrogant
[02:07:51] about. We know what happened 300 years
[02:07:53] ago.
[02:07:54] >> good point. Of what we know we get very
[02:07:56] arrogant about.
[02:07:57] >> it's also And anything else we don't.
[02:07:59] >> These academics
[02:08:01] and these people that are in charge of
[02:08:03] the narrative like the people in Egypt
[02:08:05] where they're very arrogant and they're
[02:08:07] gatekeepers cuz their whole identity is
[02:08:10] based on them being the ones that
[02:08:12] explained to the world how these
[02:08:14] incredible sites were produced. And if
[02:08:15] something comes along that is counter to
[02:08:17] that narrative
[02:08:19] they fight it. They fight it because it
[02:08:21] is their it's part of them. It's their
[02:08:23] identity. Yeah, when I spoke to Filippo
[02:08:25] Biondi, I talked to one of my cousins in
[02:08:27] Italy. I spent a lot of my time in Italy
[02:08:29] when I was younger. One of them, she was
[02:08:31] younger than I was when I was there but
[02:08:32] she's now become a respected archaeol
[02:08:35] archaeologist in Rome and she's an
[02:08:38] Egyptologist, okay? And I went out to
[02:08:41] Italy to visit family and I was sitting
[02:08:43] at the table. This is not even that long
[02:08:45] ago. And she's sitting next to me and I
[02:08:47] mean I remember her from from being a
[02:08:49] kid. And she nudged me at the table.
[02:08:52] There's her family's all academic.
[02:08:54] Everybody's a doctor or scientist or
[02:08:57] something like that. So, there's always
[02:08:58] that pride of the science and she nudges
[02:09:02] me and in Italian she says, "I'm really
[02:09:04] interested in what what you do, what
[02:09:06] you're looking into." And I knew what
[02:09:08] she meant. It was about UFOs. And I just
[02:09:12] responded, "I'm I'm even more interested
[02:09:14] in what you know about what's out there
[02:09:18] in Egypt."
[02:09:19] And she looked at me
[02:09:21] and she says, "We don't really know
[02:09:24] all of it, some a lot of she said a lot
[02:09:27] of it makes no sense."
[02:09:29] But she said it whispering because she
[02:09:32] knew that that's not well seen at the
[02:09:34] table cuz now she's going to come across
[02:09:37] as this pseudo-science type of like, "Oh
[02:09:39] my god, she's going to come out of the
[02:09:41] the the mainstream,
[02:09:43] you know." So, and then she she came she
[02:09:46] went to her place and I was still there.
[02:09:49] We were there for a couple of days. She
[02:09:51] came and gave me a little book
[02:09:53] and
[02:09:55] it in Italian, I don't know how to say
[02:09:57] it. Il van the the the missing I don't
[02:10:01] know how to say it in English, but
[02:10:03] the missing evangelio, like the missing
[02:10:05] scriptures, basically. It's a little
[02:10:08] book in Italian about the missing
[02:10:10] scriptures that are not in the Bible
[02:10:12] that speak of things that are not
[02:10:14] convenient
[02:10:16] for what we
[02:10:17] are arrogant to think we understand. And
[02:10:20] one of the fascinating things about
[02:10:21] these missing scriptures is they found
[02:10:23] them alongside existing scriptures. So,
[02:10:26] when they found the Dead Sea Scrolls in
[02:10:27] Qumran, so they found these in a cave in
[02:10:30] Qumran. And it was it's kind of a crazy
[02:10:31] thing like someone threw a rock and hit
[02:10:34] a clay pot and heard the shattering of a
[02:10:36] clay pot. So, they threw a rock into
[02:10:37] this high
[02:10:39] cave and
[02:10:41] realized there was something in there
[02:10:43] and then they started looking and then
[02:10:44] they found these scrolls that were in
[02:10:45] these clay pots. Inside the scrolls they
[02:10:47] found the Book of Isaiah.
[02:10:49] It was a thousand years older than the
[02:10:53] oldest version of the Book of Isaiah
[02:10:54] that we had ever found and
[02:10:57] it's identical verbatim to the Book of
[02:11:01] Isaiah that is currently in the Bible.
[02:11:03] Along with it is the Book of Enoch and
[02:11:06] the Book of Enoch is squirrely.
[02:11:08] >> Yeah. That Book of Enoch is squirrely.
[02:11:11] That's a good way to describe it. Just a
[02:11:13] few rabbis decided that the Book of
[02:11:16] Enoch was too weird cuz it didn't jive
[02:11:18] with the Torah, so they left it out of
[02:11:20] the biblical canon. That's why it's not
[02:11:22] taught.
[02:11:24] But the Book of Enoch is readily
[02:11:25] available. You can read it and it's also
[02:11:26] in the Ethiopian Bible. The Ethiopian
[02:11:29] Bible includes the Book of Enoch.
[02:11:30] >> Really? Yes, and those are the people
[02:11:31] that supposedly are in possession of the
[02:11:34] Ark of the Covenant.
[02:11:35] >> the Covenant, yeah. Which is like
[02:11:37] Graham Hancock talks about it. There's
[02:11:39] like a person is set to like they have a
[02:11:41] job of watching the Ark of the Covenant,
[02:11:43] but it's known that it's going to kill
[02:11:45] them, so they all get cataracts and
[02:11:47] cancer and they all want to die.
[02:11:48] >> things, yeah, that's right.
[02:11:49] >> Well, it has some sort of radiation
[02:11:50] apparently and they they exhibit signs
[02:11:52] of radiation poisoning when these people
[02:11:54] are designed to be the curators.
[02:11:56] >> Where is the Ark of the Covenant
[02:11:57] supposed to be?
[02:11:58] >> supposedly in Ethiopia. So, you guys
[02:12:00] think that's
[02:12:02] I mean, I'm very
[02:12:03] >> it's ancient technology. I think it's
[02:12:05] probably ancient technology. It's
[02:12:06] probably some completely
[02:12:09] not understood ancient technology. I'm
[02:12:12] I'm not discounting it. I'm just I'm
[02:12:14] just wondering.
[02:12:15] >> Well, I like the fact that you're
[02:12:15] skeptical even though you have the
[02:12:17] craziest story of all time.
[02:12:18] >> [laughter]
[02:12:19] >> But it's
[02:12:20] it's speaks to your integrity. It really
[02:12:22] does because you're not a guy who
[02:12:23] believes cookie So, for you, a guy
[02:12:26] who doesn't believe cookie is a
[02:12:27] hard rational scientist who is an
[02:12:29] engineer who's done things like put a
[02:12:31] rocket engine in the back of a
[02:12:33] Honda and then or a hydrogen powered
[02:12:36] Corvette and then you go and see these
[02:12:38] things you're like, "Wait, what what the
[02:12:40] is this thing you have in this
[02:12:42] hangar?"
[02:12:43] >> technology.
[02:12:44] >> Right.
[02:12:45] Nothing else. Right. So, I mean, to hear
[02:12:47] something like that, it's Do you think
[02:12:49] that that
[02:12:51] that actually exists?
[02:12:53] I don't know. Um Graham Hancock is
[02:12:55] convinced it exists. It's very carefully
[02:12:57] guarded and these people have been
[02:12:58] guarding it for centuries.
[02:12:59] >> it's just it's throughout history,
[02:13:01] right? So, I mean, there's too many
[02:13:03] missing pieces of the puzzle to really
[02:13:05] say one way or another. I don't think
[02:13:07] there's a right
[02:13:08] >> mythology or an actual
[02:13:11] >> Right. But it is weird that he's talked
[02:13:13] to these people. They have these
[02:13:15] cataracts and these people all say the
[02:13:16] same thing. They die. The people that
[02:13:18] are designed or that are designated to
[02:13:20] be the curators of this
[02:13:22] particular religious
[02:13:24] >> I relate this back to the I think I told
[02:13:26] you the first time we met, you know, if
[02:13:28] somebody found a nuclear reactor Right.
[02:13:31] back at that time, you know, and they
[02:13:33] took it apart they just would drop dead.
[02:13:36] Right.
[02:13:37] >> the radiation. Yeah, magically from
[02:13:39] that. And anybody that came in to check
[02:13:41] on them would also die and they go,
[02:13:43] "This is evil
[02:13:44] evil. It's cursed or whatever."
[02:13:46] >> Or and something that you're not
[02:13:48] supposed to have access to because it's
[02:13:51] divine.
[02:13:52] >> Yeah, right. Could this be something at
[02:13:55] another level? Yes. That I have to say
[02:13:59] and I I mean, I'm no one to say it, but
[02:14:01] I struggle with divine stuff because I'm
[02:14:03] like it this this craft or this
[02:14:06] technology I mean, our phones to
[02:14:09] somebody a thousand years ago would look
[02:14:12] like some divine object. I mean, it it's
[02:14:14] technology to us. So, we have to be very
[02:14:17] cautious in like I I'm not saying there
[02:14:19] is no divine something. Maybe there is,
[02:14:21] we don't know, but I think technology
[02:14:24] really could mask itself as divine power
[02:14:27] or
[02:14:28] or
[02:14:29] divine energy itself could be technology
[02:14:33] taken to its final form.
[02:14:36] That's that I'm open to. Well, if you
[02:14:38] think about what we're talking about
[02:14:40] with sentient AI, an AI that has the
[02:14:42] ability to make better versions of
[02:14:44] itself, what happens if it's left alone
[02:14:47] Yeah. for a thousand years to do this?
[02:14:49] Well, what do you have? You have
[02:14:51] something that can harness the power of
[02:14:52] the universe itself.
[02:14:54] It has access
[02:14:55] zero point energy, can do whatever I
[02:14:57] mean, has a complete understanding of
[02:14:59] quantum quantum entanglement, complete
[02:15:01] understanding of how the universe
[02:15:03] functions, how it was created. I mean,
[02:15:05] there's new theories that believe that
[02:15:07] the entire universe itself exists inside
[02:15:09] of a black hole. They're trying to
[02:15:10] figure out whether or not there were
[02:15:12] ever was a big bang or if it's a
[02:15:13] continuous cycle of things existing
[02:15:16] inside black holes. So, where where
[02:15:18] where do you think we are? What do you
[02:15:20] think this is? I think it's a process. I
[02:15:22] think we're we're at a stage of a
[02:15:24] process. Our problem is we have
[02:15:27] ideology, we have
[02:15:29] we have dogma, we have ego, we have
[02:15:32] people that are smarter than most
[02:15:34] people, but want to think that they have
[02:15:36] all the information and I don't think
[02:15:37] they do. And then we have open-minded
[02:15:39] people that are curious, but don't want
[02:15:40] to look like kooks and they're all
[02:15:42] trying to figure it out while we're
[02:15:43] making a digital god while these
[02:15:46] weirdo on the spectrum eggheads
[02:15:48] >> are literally manufacturing our own god.
[02:15:50] >> Right. Right.
[02:15:51] >> [laughter]
[02:15:51] >> We are. We are. If that and you you
[02:15:54] extrapolate, you go from where it is
[02:15:56] now, you think about the exponential
[02:15:58] increase of technology. Well, where does
[02:16:00] that go? It kind of goes divine. I mean,
[02:16:03] that might be what God is. We want to
[02:16:05] think that God is a thing that exists.
[02:16:08] It just exists, it created everything.
[02:16:10] Maybe we make God.
[02:16:13] >> yeah. Yeah. All right, we're on the same
[02:16:15] channel, yeah. I I think we created we I
[02:16:18] think we created God. I think human
[02:16:20] curiosity and the this thirst for
[02:16:23] innovation is all a part of it.
[02:16:26] I'll say something about the technology
[02:16:28] cuz it always fascinates me. I mean, I
[02:16:30] spent four years with Bob and I had to
[02:16:32] build it in a virtual environment, so I
[02:16:34] kind of had to think about it while I'm
[02:16:36] doing it, but if you really think about
[02:16:38] what this technology that you saw does
[02:16:42] it essentially creates this artificial
[02:16:44] field of whether it's artificial maybe
[02:16:46] it's natural. Maybe it's a natural
[02:16:47] field, but it creates a field that we're
[02:16:49] not familiar with and that field I mean,
[02:16:52] Joe, you saw the movie there was a test
[02:16:54] that was done in the lab that froze a
[02:16:57] candle flame. Right, right.
[02:16:59] But the but the photons are still
[02:17:01] visible within our realm here outside of
[02:17:05] the field and you're still seeing the
[02:17:07] photons, yet it looks like it's frozen.
[02:17:10] To me is the is this is that technology
[02:17:16] like a black hole? Is it some type of
[02:17:18] time stop?
[02:17:20] And they and it it basically gives us
[02:17:23] the power to utilize time in our
[02:17:27] advantage. If you think about
[02:17:30] progression in technology, anything we
[02:17:32] do, it takes time. Anything takes time.
[02:17:35] Whether it's computing power where now
[02:17:37] we're seeing quantum computers do things
[02:17:39] that they're faster and faster and they
[02:17:41] could do a trillion processes in an
[02:17:43] instant and Japan is going coming up
[02:17:45] with better and then China.
[02:17:47] But because everything has to do with
[02:17:49] how long does it take to do that? Right.
[02:17:52] If a technology can make you bypass time
[02:17:56] it's like the record player playing
[02:17:58] music, but you're you're now able to
[02:18:01] lift it lift the little pin on the
[02:18:03] record and move it to wherever you want.
[02:18:06] >> Yes. That's a good way to describe it.
[02:18:07] >> Right? And now at that point time is in
[02:18:10] your hands.
[02:18:12] And if we have a technology similar to
[02:18:14] what you saw because you always said
[02:18:17] gravity is a control gravity and time.
[02:18:20] >> yeah. It it's interlocked, right?
[02:18:22] >> and time are interlocked.
[02:18:24] >> Exactly. So, if that's interlocked, then
[02:18:27] we have to look at it not just as a
[02:18:30] propulsion system or some type of cool
[02:18:32] weapon
[02:18:33] but how is it affecting time and how can
[02:18:36] we use that to our benefit to evolve
[02:18:39] sorry, to evolve faster?
[02:18:41] Because again the faster we can compute,
[02:18:45] the faster we could do something, the
[02:18:47] faster we're evolving. And if we could
[02:18:50] lift that needle and bring it faster to
[02:18:53] get there to get somewhere, why not use
[02:18:55] it? Or should I mean should we be
[02:18:57] allowed to do that? Austin our current
[02:19:00] form.
[02:19:00] >> Yeah, I know. I
[02:19:02] >> [laughter]
[02:19:03] >> Like I said, I'm I'm not exactly on our
[02:19:06] side anymore.
[02:19:08] Well, that was one of the
[02:19:09] Do you remember Jamie who discussed the
[02:19:11] way they were describing the use of some
[02:19:14] of this alien technology as
[02:19:16] instantaneous
[02:19:18] weapon deployment systems? I I'm not
[02:19:21] sure we should be trusted with this
[02:19:22] stuff.
[02:19:23] >> Right. No, really. Well, you think about
[02:19:26] what we're doing in Iran right now, you
[02:19:28] would say no. Yeah. Yeah, I would I
[02:19:30] would say no for sure.
[02:19:32] >> over patches of dirt and bombing the
[02:19:34] out of
[02:19:35] >> No, imagine if we had something a a a
[02:19:37] million times that power. Um
[02:19:41] Really, humans should not
[02:19:44] be trusted with that.
[02:19:46] >> Right, we got to trust it to AI. That's
[02:19:48] why we're making it, Bob.
[02:19:50] This is [laughter] This is getting
[02:19:52] scary. Yeah, it is getting scary. It is.
[02:19:54] But it's it's not science fiction
[02:19:56] anymore.
[02:19:56] >> no no it's not I mean we're making fun
[02:19:59] of it now, but no this is this is
[02:20:01] dangerous stuff and I'm
[02:20:03] you know, I'm sorry for the people who
[02:20:05] think this is all a joke. It's not. This
[02:20:07] is real. And um
[02:20:10] I'm really not sure we should be trusted
[02:20:12] with this. That's maybe why for 40 years
[02:20:14] or 60 years people have agreed to keep
[02:20:17] it quiet.
[02:20:17] >> I would agree.
[02:20:18] >> And and um
[02:20:20] Well, that's the most logical
[02:20:21] conclusion.
[02:20:22] >> Yeah, this is incredibly dangerous
[02:20:23] stuff. And again, it's a world
[02:20:26] dominating technology. And I I don't
[02:20:30] know what to do with it other than to
[02:20:31] keep it from people.
[02:20:34] So,
[02:20:35] and how do we know if it comes out
[02:20:37] something I always struggle with is
[02:20:40] let's say they they let's say we do get
[02:20:42] an a
[02:20:43] some some type of thing saying, all
[02:20:45] right, we we have to see it from
[02:20:47] somebody in the government, the
[02:20:48] president, whoever that says, okay, here
[02:20:51] we are, we have this. Well, first of
[02:20:53] all, we have to validate it. The
[02:20:55] journalists are going to The whole world
[02:20:57] Nobody's going to say The media is not
[02:20:58] going to just trust somebody saying
[02:20:59] that. They're going to go, okay, wait a
[02:21:01] minute. What are you talking about,
[02:21:02] right? So, it's not like because
[02:21:03] somebody says it, we just have to
[02:21:05] swallow it. It's like, all right,
[02:21:07] go. Show us, right? And then when you do
[02:21:10] that, well, now you're exposing
[02:21:12] something else. What do we What What
[02:21:15] happens when we need to believe it? Like
[02:21:18] as as a as a as people, what do what has
[02:21:22] to happen for me to believe something
[02:21:24] that somebody says?
[02:21:26] There really has to be something serious
[02:21:28] that makes me believe it. Right.
[02:21:30] >> You know what I mean? Like some if a
[02:21:31] president or anybody, prime minister,
[02:21:33] whoever it is says something to me, I'll
[02:21:35] still go like, okay. I mean, show me.
[02:21:38] Right.
[02:21:38] >> they when they show it, how do I know
[02:21:41] that's actually that?
[02:21:44] Think about that. Yeah. Right? And then
[02:21:46] from there, we now have to go to another
[02:21:49] level of okay, well, if we have to prove
[02:21:52] it, we have to bring in scientific
[02:21:54] community.
[02:21:55] Okay. That means they have access to it.
[02:21:58] What's the security parameters there?
[02:22:00] Right. And then you get
[02:22:01] compartmentalization.
[02:22:03] Right. And then that stops any sort of
[02:22:05] an understanding of And that's why you
[02:22:07] have this stigma this stick this
[02:22:10] stagnation of where you've got these
[02:22:12] people working on this thing for decades
[02:22:14] and not making any progress. Do you know
[02:22:16] how far we could have gotten if there
[02:22:18] was free discussion between all the
[02:22:20] groups working on this? Right. Yeah. But
[02:22:23] then you also have these psychos
[02:22:24] like from Dr. Strangelove that want to
[02:22:26] turn it into a nuclear delivery system.
[02:22:28] Yeah.
[02:22:30] So, where you don't have to worry about
[02:22:31] them detecting nuclear bombs headed
[02:22:33] their way, you just instantaneously
[02:22:36] devastate Moscow in one shot.
[02:22:40] You don't have to take credit for it.
[02:22:42] Yeah, but we'd
[02:22:43] Right. [laughter]
[02:22:44] No, it's like we are not ready. Right.
[02:22:47] Yeah, and I know we're not ready, but
[02:22:49] we'd be more advanced if we did that.
[02:22:51] No, I I mean I I agree that I agree with
[02:22:53] that. But um
[02:22:56] It's all very strange and no one knows
[02:22:58] more strange than you.
[02:23:00] Uh like No, there are plenty of people
[02:23:02] that know more strange than me. I mean,
[02:23:04] Dennis knew more strange than me.
[02:23:06] Anybody above him knew that. I just knew
[02:23:09] a small part of it.
[02:23:10] >> But you out of all the people that can
[02:23:12] talk about it that are out there
[02:23:14] communicating about it, you have
[02:23:16] actually seen it physically.
[02:23:18] >> Yeah, I I I try to only talk about what
[02:23:21] I I've seen and touched and verified.
[02:23:23] I've heard plenty of other stuff that I
[02:23:25] don't know if it's true or not. And
[02:23:27] there's no sense in repeating that.
[02:23:29] Because nonsense moves at the speed of
[02:23:31] light these days.
[02:23:32] >> Right. Yeah. It does. And that's that's
[02:23:35] just it's terrible. You live in a weird
[02:23:37] existence, Bob. You really do. Because
[02:23:40] you're you know, you've been holding on
[02:23:42] to this. You have this experience from
[02:23:45] 40 years ago that's just
[02:23:48] become a part of
[02:23:50] folklore. It's become a part of the
[02:23:52] zeitgeist. Like this is why your podcast
[02:23:55] that we did is the most watched podcast
[02:23:57] I've ever done. This resonates with
[02:23:59] people in a way that Look, I've done a
[02:24:01] lot of UFO ones. I had Travis Walton on.
[02:24:04] I've had a lot of people that have
[02:24:05] stories. They're all very interesting.
[02:24:07] They don't get nearly the amount of
[02:24:08] traction that yours does. And I think
[02:24:10] it's because you're uniquely credible.
[02:24:13] You're uniquely credible in the fact
[02:24:14] that you are very skeptical. You're not
[02:24:16] interested in like these fantastic
[02:24:18] ideas. You're you're very dismissive of
[02:24:20] nonsense. But yet you have this burden.
[02:24:24] Like you actually
[02:24:26] physically touched these things
[02:24:29] and went inside of them.
[02:24:30] >> I mean, I was fortunate enough to have
[02:24:32] this really unique job. That that's
[02:24:34] about it. And I am fascinated with the
[02:24:36] technology.
[02:24:37] But that's where it stops.
[02:24:39] I'm not interested interested in anybody
[02:24:41] else's story, although everybody has to
[02:24:44] email me and you know, I I understand
[02:24:47] it, you know, they're looking for
[02:24:49] somebody Hey, I saw this thing out when
[02:24:51] I was out on my boat and then you know,
[02:24:52] what is it?
[02:24:53] I don't know. You know, I mean, they're
[02:24:55] [laughter] they're they're they're
[02:24:57] they're just looking for something and
[02:24:59] that's like I don't know, maybe it was
[02:25:01] Venus or something and
[02:25:02] Oh my god, you suck, you know, you work
[02:25:04] for the government, you [laughter] know,
[02:25:05] and it's like Dude, I'm just looking for
[02:25:08] a prosaic explanation and and um
[02:25:12] you know, but I only know what I saw and
[02:25:14] I touched for myself. And everything
[02:25:17] else, even in official government
[02:25:19] documentation, it's just words on paper.
[02:25:22] I don't know if that stuff is true. So,
[02:25:23] you got to draw the line there. Yes. But
[02:25:26] um you know, I know what I what I did
[02:25:29] see, I know for a fact. And there is no
[02:25:34] way you can tell me that that's not
[02:25:37] real.
[02:25:39] Yeah. I I mean, I I have to say in
[02:25:43] having worked with him and having you
[02:25:46] know, inadvertently, there's no way that
[02:25:48] myself or people on my team weren't
[02:25:50] trying to dig deeper and find Maybe
[02:25:52] there's a prob- Maybe there's going to
[02:25:53] be a gap. Maybe we'll find something
[02:25:55] wrong with the story. Cuz we we went we
[02:25:58] went very deep. We had to build S4. We
[02:26:00] had to build the sport model.
[02:26:02] And
[02:26:04] there were things that happened over the
[02:26:07] years, things that he had said to us
[02:26:09] before we had built it that there's no
[02:26:11] way he could have known because there
[02:26:14] was physicality, real things that we
[02:26:17] built. When you build something in a 3D
[02:26:19] environment, you're actually building a
[02:26:21] real world. It's got light bounce and
[02:26:24] refractions like the real world. Like
[02:26:25] when you turn on the light, it does the
[02:26:27] same thing. If a material has a sheen,
[02:26:30] you see it. It's literally the same
[02:26:32] thing. It's just computing power that
[02:26:33] gives you access to another world. And
[02:26:36] he mentioned things that were absolutely
[02:26:39] impossible to know.
[02:26:41] Like what? One of the things that got
[02:26:44] two things really
[02:26:46] convinced me.
[02:26:47] One of them was in the interior of the
[02:26:50] craft. You had said to us it was very
[02:26:53] dark in there.
[02:26:55] And while Bob is explaining to us the
[02:26:58] this interior of the craft and many time
[02:27:00] he kept repeating it was really dark in
[02:27:02] there.
[02:27:03] And so, at a certain point he says, as
[02:27:05] I'm crawling in, there's like these
[02:27:07] extension cords. And I remember going,
[02:27:09] extension cords? Like I it that hadn't
[02:27:12] computed. And he's like, yeah, they had
[02:27:14] lights in there. And I'm thinking, it's
[02:27:16] true. I mean, there's no light switch
[02:27:19] inside this big thing. It's 50 52 ft.
[02:27:22] It's big. And so, he said, yeah, there
[02:27:24] were two big industrial yellow
[02:27:28] industrial lights with four spots each
[02:27:30] pointed up. And so, we decided to make
[02:27:32] those. We decided to research the type
[02:27:35] that were used back then in the United
[02:27:37] States, especially on military bases,
[02:27:38] the halogen power cuz it was halogen in
[02:27:40] 1988. And we turned them on. And it was
[02:27:44] still dark.
[02:27:45] >> And it was super dark. And I remember
[02:27:48] Christopher Mattel, by the way, a big
[02:27:50] shout out to Christopher Mattel that's
[02:27:51] on my team who made a lot of those
[02:27:53] visuals and he's like a magician. He's
[02:27:55] He's the best.
[02:27:56] He He's there and I I said, Chris, turn
[02:27:59] on the lights cuz we have to film in the
[02:28:01] craft. And he's like, they're they're
[02:28:02] on.
[02:28:03] I said, they're not on. I can't
[02:28:05] see anything. He's like, they're fully
[02:28:07] on.
[02:28:08] And I said, well, that that doesn't make
[02:28:10] any sense. It's so dark in there. I
[02:28:11] remember thinking,
[02:28:13] >> light in there.
[02:28:15] >> we upped the power of the light so that
[02:28:18] you could see more. And it was still
[02:28:20] dark. And I thought, what the hell is
[02:28:23] happening? I goes, is there a bug? Is it
[02:28:25] Is there something wrong? He goes, no, I
[02:28:27] don't know. It's It's It's absorbing the
[02:28:29] light in there.
[02:28:30] We had to up the light intensity on
[02:28:33] those tripods by 20-fold
[02:28:36] in order for you to see the visuals you
[02:28:38] see in our film.
[02:28:40] Otherwise, it would be really dark in
[02:28:42] that craft.
[02:28:43] >> So, how did you compute that? Like what
[02:28:45] what what parameters did you establish?
[02:28:48] So, what you do is you're you're inside
[02:28:51] a 3D environment. You're an actual a
[02:28:53] three you're in a 3D world. Now, we're
[02:28:55] inside the craft that is 52 ft in
[02:28:58] diameter. It's we bring a camera in
[02:29:01] there. So, we were filming the whole
[02:29:03] film was was done with the Blackmagic 6K
[02:29:06] cams. So, we would bring our Blackmagics
[02:29:09] in the 3D environment. You can actually
[02:29:10] set that so that we could film inside
[02:29:14] the craft so matches the filming of of
[02:29:16] our real cameras.
[02:29:17] And so, the as soon as the camera's on,
[02:29:20] it's the same lens, it's the same
[02:29:22] aperture, everything is as you would
[02:29:24] have it. And so, you're trying to adjust
[02:29:26] for this dark room.
[02:29:28] But if the room is really dark, you
[02:29:31] can't really get a good look at it cuz
[02:29:33] if you go close enough, you would have
[02:29:35] seen like a seat and a little bit of the
[02:29:37] reactor, but you would have been like,
[02:29:39] "What's the black screen I'm looking
[02:29:40] at?"
[02:29:40] >> So, what is the explanation for why it's
[02:29:42] so dark? It's just the way the light
[02:29:44] reflects on the And that is exactly
[02:29:46] Yeah, it's when you're in that space,
[02:29:48] exactly
[02:29:49] >> here's the question. Like, what what are
[02:29:50] you when you're making this in a
[02:29:52] computer model? Right? What are you
[02:29:55] putting in that would make it absorb
[02:29:58] light that way?
[02:29:59] >> I didn't do that. So, what we did is
[02:30:01] we spent over a year with Bob. I I'm not
[02:30:05] I'm not kidding. It was like a year of
[02:30:07] trying to figure out the material of the
[02:30:10] craft, the the actual skin of the craft.
[02:30:13] That was the hardest thing to do in
[02:30:15] >> clarity and the reflectivity of the
[02:30:16] actual material.
[02:30:19] Yeah. And then when the lights are in
[02:30:20] there, they just reflect at a weird
[02:30:23] angle, and it never gets bright in there
[02:30:26] unless you have
[02:30:27] tremendous amounts of light in there.
[02:30:29] It's always dark.
[02:30:30] >> And and sorry to interrupt, but that
[02:30:33] would have been So, when when that
[02:30:35] happened and we have the right material,
[02:30:37] which is like this let's call it
[02:30:39] unpolished stainless steel. It's got a
[02:30:41] little bit of usage to it just to give
[02:30:43] it some texture.
[02:30:45] It's It's as It's got the same sheen,
[02:30:47] reflection, refractions of a real
[02:30:49] material like that cuz every time we put
[02:30:51] a fake light in there, okay, it's
[02:30:52] reacting like that.
[02:30:54] And now you turn these big halogen
[02:30:56] lights on and it's like the part of
[02:30:59] where the halogen is hitting the ceiling
[02:31:01] of the craft cuz they were turned
[02:31:02] upwards. Remember you Bob said they were
[02:31:05] not pointed like this. They were pointed
[02:31:07] to the ceiling of the craft. So, you got
[02:31:08] two of them.
[02:31:10] It's like wherever the light was going
[02:31:12] was getting eaten up by that portion of
[02:31:15] the material. So, it's not reflecting
[02:31:18] all the way. So, you have a 52-ft
[02:31:21] distance and it's being lost in a maybe
[02:31:24] 7-8 ft diameter environment area where
[02:31:28] the light is. And we're like, "Why is
[02:31:30] that happening?" But that's how it What
[02:31:34] that's the reality. He could not have
[02:31:36] known that if he if he's trying to make
[02:31:40] that up.
[02:31:42] Anybody who's inventing a story says
[02:31:45] there's two industrial light
[02:31:47] with four hal- bright halogen spots in
[02:31:50] there.
[02:31:51] A liar would not say it was really dark
[02:31:54] in there.
[02:31:55] You don't know that. You have to build
[02:31:58] it. Right. So, to me that was a
[02:32:00] physicality of being inside the craft
[02:32:03] that made me go, "Lazar could not have
[02:32:06] known that if he was making that up."
[02:32:09] >> know it until you experienced it.
[02:32:10] >> Exactly. Right. So, I'm like, "Unless
[02:32:12] Bob back then decided to go and in his
[02:32:16] garage build himself a fake dome, which
[02:32:20] I don't think you did." I'm like, "How
[02:32:22] would he have known that?" We didn't
[02:32:24] expect that. We were we were struggling
[02:32:26] with, "Why is it so dark in there?"
[02:32:28] >> And you make films, so you're used to
[02:32:30] using lighting and
[02:32:30] >> Exactly. And and Chris was like, "Dude,
[02:32:33] this thing is just eating up the light."
[02:32:35] And I'm like, "Bob kept saying it's so
[02:32:38] dark in there." And it just How How do
[02:32:42] you How do you How is that possible?
[02:32:44] >> the other things? The other one
[02:32:47] I laugh about this with Bob all the
[02:32:48] time. It's about the flag
[02:32:50] on the craft that you could have seen
[02:32:52] it.
[02:32:52] >> remember.
[02:32:53] >> So, when he walked into the hangar the
[02:32:55] very first time,
[02:32:57] he saw the very first time
[02:33:00] >> flag.
[02:33:01] >> he saw the craft and he saw the American
[02:33:03] the reversed American flag sticker on
[02:33:05] the craft.
[02:33:06] >> why it was reversed. I I'll get to that
[02:33:08] in a sec. I think I know, but
[02:33:11] whatever. I'll I'll I'll say what I
[02:33:12] think. And
[02:33:14] there's a lot of stuff I researched a
[02:33:16] lot of stuff on Bob Lazar before I did
[02:33:18] this, and there's a lot of bad
[02:33:19] information out there.
[02:33:21] So, I I really I I really tell people if
[02:33:23] you really want to see what he saw,
[02:33:25] don't go read what's out there. Check
[02:33:27] this out cuz Bob actually vetted
[02:33:28] everything, so it's not the wrong
[02:33:30] information read. But anyway, there's a
[02:33:32] lot of detractors saying there's no way
[02:33:35] Lazar could have seen that flag. If the
[02:33:37] craft was that size and it was on the
[02:33:39] hall on the on the craft shell, there's
[02:33:41] no way the angle he's 5 something, he
[02:33:43] wouldn't have been able to see it. So,
[02:33:45] we built it. We built a 52-ft diameter
[02:33:48] craft. We put it in the hangar. It's
[02:33:51] there. And my my team, Chris, gives me
[02:33:54] the goggles, the ones I made you try on.
[02:33:56] And it's the very first time I go in
[02:33:58] there. And I know the craft is there.
[02:34:01] So, I put them on. And now they're
[02:34:03] they're hoping cuz they're there with
[02:34:05] with notes. They're hoping I'm giving
[02:34:07] them all the notes of, "No, that's not
[02:34:08] good. That's not good." And the first
[02:34:10] thing I did is I looked to my right. I'm
[02:34:12] looking at the craft.
[02:34:14] And I'm I asked uh Chris to put me at 5
[02:34:17] ft 10, which is your height. So, I said,
[02:34:20] "At 5 10, I'm Bob's height with the
[02:34:22] goggles. I want to see."
[02:34:23] And the first thing I said is, "Oh, it's
[02:34:25] There it is."
[02:34:27] And they're like,
[02:34:28] "There what is?" I said, "The flag." And
[02:34:31] they thought I was pointing at a flag on
[02:34:33] a wall. And they're like, "There's no
[02:34:35] flag in the hangar." I said, "No, on the
[02:34:37] craft." And they're like, "Yeah?"
[02:34:39] I said, "You can clearly see it."
[02:34:42] It was clear. That was something that
[02:34:45] also made me go, "Yeah, this is this is
[02:34:48] it. This is the real size." So,
[02:34:51] had Bob Lazar not actually seen that,
[02:34:54] the majority of the the detractors out
[02:34:57] there kept saying there's no way at that
[02:34:59] angle a human eye could see a sticker on
[02:35:02] the top of the craft, which is on the
[02:35:05] top shelf.
[02:35:05] >> Mhm.
[02:35:06] But you can. It's as clear as day. So,
[02:35:09] those were two things that I considered
[02:35:11] to be like, you know,
[02:35:15] it's there. So, I know to may- maybe
[02:35:18] some people that's not a lot, but as a
[02:35:21] person like I am who's very technical,
[02:35:23] I'm very
[02:35:24] I'm super difficult. It took a long time
[02:35:27] to do this cuz I'm a perfectionist, and
[02:35:29] I wanted to make sure it was accurate to
[02:35:31] what he saw.
[02:35:33] I look at stuff like that because I
[02:35:36] analyze everything like that.
[02:35:39] And I I analyzed his story inside out.
[02:35:42] >> you couldn't see the flag from that
[02:35:43] position, it would it would be a red
[02:35:44] flag. Yeah, that would have been a red
[02:35:47] flag for me. I would have been like,
[02:35:48] "Wait, you can't see it." But you can.
[02:35:50] So, you can't you can't put
[02:35:53] enough of a value on little details like
[02:35:56] that
[02:35:57] because he didn't say this in 2026. He
[02:35:59] said this in 1989. Right.
[02:36:03] Why?
[02:36:04] >> Why do you think the flag was reversed?
[02:36:07] In American uh flag use law, the the the
[02:36:11] the only thing we were able to
[02:36:14] ascertain is the fact that on military
[02:36:17] or on vehicles, anything military on a
[02:36:19] on a uniform, if ever you see an
[02:36:21] American flag on your right shoulder,
[02:36:24] it's reversed because it's how the wind
[02:36:26] is blowing the flag. On your left side,
[02:36:29] it's like the flag is because the wind
[02:36:31] is blowing this way. If you look at
[02:36:33] [clears throat] vehicles, uh let's say a
[02:36:35] Greyhound bus, they have American flags
[02:36:37] on each side, and they have a normal one
[02:36:40] on the left one on the left side and a
[02:36:42] reversed on the right side because it's
[02:36:44] the right side of the vehicle. So, it's
[02:36:46] a blowing it's blowing in the flag
[02:36:48] >> the flag that way. So, the reversed
[02:36:51] American flag is a is a is a actual
[02:36:55] uh
[02:36:56] it's the law of how to use the flag in
[02:36:58] the United States military or on
[02:37:00] vehicles. And it has to be like that on
[02:37:03] the right side. So, to to say, "Is that
[02:37:07] the right side of the craft?" Yeah, it
[02:37:09] must be.
[02:37:10] >> be because if you go into the craft, the
[02:37:13] seats when you're when you go into the
[02:37:15] craft I I can't wait for you to go in
[02:37:17] the craft.
[02:37:18] When you go inside, the seats are facing
[02:37:21] the right side, meaning
[02:37:23] the hatch is the right side of the
[02:37:26] craft. It's the only thing that came to
[02:37:29] mind. I mean, is that what the they did
[02:37:32] at S4? They put a sticker on it?
[02:37:35] I mean, it's the only logical thing we
[02:37:37] could think of is that's why it was
[02:37:40] there. Mhm. I don't know. I'm
[02:37:43] you know, my other my other because if
[02:37:45] it was an American fla- if it was just
[02:37:48] for identifying this is America,
[02:37:51] why would you reverse it? Right. Right?
[02:37:55] You're reversing it because it's
[02:37:57] indicating the direction which it
[02:37:58] travels. Exactly. Wow.
[02:38:01] That's just an interesting
[02:38:03] >> Yeah. Right?
[02:38:04] It's all interesting. The The goggles is
[02:38:06] a trip. When I put on the 3D AR goggles
[02:38:11] and you you VR goggles rather and you
[02:38:13] you stand in that
[02:38:15] warehouse, that hangar, and look at it,
[02:38:18] it's very strange. It feels weird.
[02:38:20] >> like it was. It feels very weird. It
[02:38:23] feels very weird cuz I I mean, I'm only
[02:38:25] imagining what it's like to actually be
[02:38:27] you in 1988 and be standing there. When
[02:38:30] you put the goggles on, that's exactly
[02:38:31] how it was. What did What did Dennis say
[02:38:34] when you first saw it? Was like, "Huh?
[02:38:36] Huh?"
[02:38:37] Like, [laughter] "Come on."
[02:38:38] Dennis Dennis was hardcore. Yeah.
[02:38:40] >> He was Yeah, he was here. Look at that.
[02:38:43] You know, come back in here. I mean it
[02:38:46] There was no reaction. Barry on the
[02:38:48] other hand was out of his mind. He he
[02:38:50] couldn't wait to show me stuff and you
[02:38:52] know, he said, "Check this out. Oh my
[02:38:54] god, that was that awesome." You know,
[02:38:56] but Dennis was uh
[02:38:58] It was like a hardcore
[02:39:00] you know, military guy.
[02:39:03] How much of a view did you get of the
[02:39:05] other crafts? Cuz it's one of the things
[02:39:07] in the film, you only see like hints of
[02:39:10] them. That was it. That's it. That's it.
[02:39:12] What you saw on the film was exactly
[02:39:13] what it was. It was just a passing thing
[02:39:15] and as I was walking out there going,
[02:39:18] "Wow, there's more. Everything looks
[02:39:21] different." And
[02:39:24] other than the the first two hangars, I
[02:39:26] really couldn't tell what was past out
[02:39:28] there, but there were other hangars and
[02:39:30] there were things inside them. But It's
[02:39:33] also interesting that at the time in
[02:39:35] 1988, this site was not even confirmed.
[02:39:38] This was like for you to have to know
[02:39:40] about this and know the exact location
[02:39:42] of it is kind of strange. Right. Now,
[02:39:45] Luigi did that. I mean, I gave him the
[02:39:47] general idea. I said
[02:39:49] you know, I know
[02:39:51] what time I got out there and I could
[02:39:53] see Papoose Lake and behind me
[02:39:56] the hill.
[02:39:56] >> He pulled he pulled up a lot of stuff
[02:39:57] from there. But another interesting
[02:39:59] thing he pulled up was
[02:40:02] there was an old silver mine exactly
[02:40:04] there.
[02:40:06] In the exact same place and I wonder if
[02:40:08] they used that as the it was already
[02:40:11] drilled. There was already, you know,
[02:40:13] corridors in there.
[02:40:15] >> I actually held this
[02:40:17] for this show. What I'm about to say is
[02:40:19] the first time ever. It's not even It
[02:40:21] didn't make it in my film. I wish it
[02:40:23] did, but it didn't make it in the film.
[02:40:25] Veronica at on our team, she's my
[02:40:28] sister. She's like my right hand and I
[02:40:30] didn't If I didn't have her, I wouldn't
[02:40:31] be here right now.
[02:40:33] She found this
[02:40:35] and at a certain point we were looking
[02:40:37] at the maps out there and we we You'll
[02:40:40] see in my film that Gene Huff sent us
[02:40:42] some US Department of the Interior
[02:40:44] official maps of that environment at the
[02:40:47] Groom Groom Lake Papoose Lake.
[02:40:49] But we weren't satisfied. We wanted to
[02:40:51] go deeper. We said there's got to be
[02:40:52] more and there's one map
[02:40:55] in
[02:40:56] that is a publicly available map. It's
[02:41:00] super not easy to find, by the way,
[02:41:02] that is in the hands of the US
[02:41:04] Department of the Interior.
[02:41:07] I could get it to you if you want. I can
[02:41:09] email it to you.
[02:41:10] That map is the oldest map of Papoose
[02:41:13] Lake known in the hands of the
[02:41:15] government that is that is public
[02:41:17] domain.
[02:41:18] That map and everybody's going to be
[02:41:21] listening to this
[02:41:22] clearly shows a road that goes right
[02:41:27] into where S4 was.
[02:41:30] is.
[02:41:31] It doesn't show a road near it. It shows
[02:41:34] a road going right in the mountain.
[02:41:38] And they removed it. That map is from
[02:41:41] 1941.
[02:41:44] Okay? Right after that, the map is 1950
[02:41:48] and 1952 and those roads were removed.
[02:41:52] But the the late the oldest map we ever
[02:41:54] found, it's going to be available.
[02:41:56] We're going to post it on our website.
[02:41:58] It's going to be everywhere.
[02:42:00] It shows
[02:42:01] clear as day a road that goes right into
[02:42:05] the mountain exactly where Bob Lazar
[02:42:07] said S4 was. So, do you think that was
[02:42:10] the road to the silver mine initially?
[02:42:12] >> Yes, I believe that yeah. I believe It
[02:42:14] makes sense that they would use an
[02:42:15] existing facility and just enlarge it
[02:42:17] instead of start from nothing. Right, of
[02:42:19] course. Especially if it's abandoned.
[02:42:21] Yeah. Yeah.
[02:42:22] And it also makes sense that if Roswell
[02:42:25] was real and if they really did
[02:42:28] find a crashed UFO in 1947
[02:42:31] like in the 1950s they'd be like, "Let's
[02:42:33] get rid of this road."
[02:42:35] Right?
[02:42:35] >> Yeah, if we're putting this out there,
[02:42:37] if we're building this facility out
[02:42:39] there. And if they did have it, that
[02:42:41] also makes sense that they worked on
[02:42:42] this for decades. You come along in
[02:42:44] 1988, they've got this happening in the
[02:42:46] 1950s and it's still there. Yeah.
[02:42:49] Yeah. I think what happened is when the
[02:42:52] CIA took over cuz CIA is the one took
[02:42:54] over area They're the ones that Area 51.
[02:42:57] I think what happened is as they took
[02:42:59] over, they just removed the the road.
[02:43:02] It wasn't even because there was a UF
[02:43:04] a flying saucer there. I I just think
[02:43:06] they got in there, took control of that
[02:43:09] terrain, that whole landscape and said
[02:43:12] "Remove it off the maps." Because it's
[02:43:14] there prior to them taking ownership of
[02:43:16] that land.
[02:43:18] So, I mean
[02:43:20] it's clear that there was a road there
[02:43:23] and then they came in, CIA said take it
[02:43:25] out and S4 might have had already an
[02:43:28] installat Not it wasn't an installation,
[02:43:30] but they probably had a a tunnel in
[02:43:32] there already because they were it was a
[02:43:34] mine.
[02:43:35] So, it was an easier way to build a big
[02:43:37] facility in the in the side of the hill.
[02:43:39] Makes sense. It does make sense. And
[02:43:41] then there's also the images that you
[02:43:42] got of what looks like the hangar bay
[02:43:45] doors that are camouflaged. And I have
[02:43:48] to say that Got to go again? Yeah.
[02:43:50] Sorry. No worries. I'm That's all good.
[02:43:53] That
[02:43:54] >> [laughter]
[02:43:56] >> Technology will fix that.
[02:43:59] It'll remove your prostate.
[02:44:01] >> [laughter]
[02:44:01] >> Turn you into a alien.
[02:44:03] Um so, though the that image that you
[02:44:06] got um of the unfortunately it's kind of
[02:44:09] blurry, but it you do see something that
[02:44:13] looks very similar to what you'd expect
[02:44:15] to be camouflage garage bay doors. I got
[02:44:18] contacted by a guy called Scott
[02:44:21] Mitchell. And I was getting contacted by
[02:44:24] everybody, Joe. Everybody everybody was
[02:44:26] trying to get in in find getting to make
[02:44:28] me work with them or use something they
[02:44:30] found. So, I was I was ignoring 95 99%
[02:44:34] of people's like It's getting tiring.
[02:44:36] Everybody's like, "You got to listen to
[02:44:37] me. I know stuff about that." I'm like,
[02:44:39] "Whatever. I'm working with Bob Lazar. I
[02:44:41] I have enough right now."
[02:44:43] But this guy we had built the base.
[02:44:46] And I knew exactly where it was. I knew
[02:44:48] exactly the layout. And this guy he not
[02:44:50] only contacted me, but he sent me an
[02:44:53] image that he had that he had drawn. He
[02:44:55] didn't want to send me the real what he
[02:44:57] had found, but he says, "Here it is.
[02:44:59] This is where the doors are and this is
[02:45:00] exactly where they they point to."
[02:45:03] I looked at the image and I said
[02:45:06] "Not bad." I mean, he really nailed it
[02:45:08] in the image and I thought "Okay." I I I
[02:45:11] at first I thought somebody on my team
[02:45:14] leaked something we had. To be honest,
[02:45:16] I'm like, "Ah, who did that? Who sent
[02:45:18] out one of our renders to somebody?" And
[02:45:21] cuz that's what I thought. And they're
[02:45:22] like, "No, no, no. This is what?" So, I
[02:45:25] I
[02:45:25] I
[02:45:26] talked to this guy and
[02:45:29] he's a he's really really good at
[02:45:31] researching and he ended up becoming
[02:45:34] probably one of the best I've ever like
[02:45:36] he's one of the best I've ever seen. His
[02:45:38] name is Scott Mitchell.
[02:45:39] And he says, "There are pictures that
[02:45:42] were taken in 2020." And they ironically
[02:45:44] those pictures were taken on December
[02:45:46] 25th, 2020, which is Christmas Day
[02:45:49] in the middle of COVID.
[02:45:51] Which means the base might have been
[02:45:53] shut down.
[02:45:54] If you think about that, you know what I
[02:45:55] mean? Like it's COVID. It's like in the
[02:45:57] heat of it. Plus it's 20 It's 20 It's
[02:45:59] 25th of December. So, there's probably
[02:46:01] nothing going on there. And this private
[02:46:04] uh
[02:46:05] pilot in in a small Cessna requested
[02:46:08] access inside the perimeter
[02:46:10] and they granted him permission.
[02:46:13] And he had a big Nikon camera on board
[02:46:15] with a big telescopic zoom and he took a
[02:46:18] ton of pictures and they're
[02:46:19] amazing. They're all public. They're all
[02:46:21] available. You can download them.
[02:46:23] And there's this these pictures of
[02:46:26] Papoose Lake and the hill. But they were
[02:46:28] being used on the internet for a long
[02:46:30] time. Everybody was like, "See, Bob
[02:46:31] Lazar is is a fraud. It's not real.
[02:46:33] There's nothing there."
[02:46:35] Well, of course you can't see it. It's
[02:46:37] First of all, it's 17 mi away and
[02:46:40] secondly, they're not designed for you
[02:46:41] to see it. And that also let's talk
[02:46:44] about something that Bob was talking
[02:46:46] about in 1988. The picture was taken in
[02:46:48] 2020. I mean, there could be
[02:46:51] That's could be a different landscape
[02:46:52] now. Anyway.
[02:46:53] So,
[02:46:54] he said, "Look, this image if you change
[02:46:57] the contrast, you got to keep the
[02:46:59] original, but just move and try to
[02:47:01] extract data from your image." You know,
[02:47:04] anybody who knows how to use that do
[02:47:06] that with photography, you can do that.
[02:47:09] And he and he pulls out these this this
[02:47:11] geometric these geometric shapes. You
[02:47:14] could see them. They're they're like
[02:47:15] little They look like rectangles.
[02:47:18] And I thought
[02:47:20] "What if this is not real?" I I'm I was
[02:47:23] super skeptical. I'll be honest with
[02:47:25] you. I wasn't I'm We're talking about
[02:47:26] the the picture with the doors on the
[02:47:29] the hangar doors the hangar doors, the
[02:47:30] one from Scott Mitchell, the one that we
[02:47:31] have in the film. All right, right. And
[02:47:34] uh
[02:47:35] And so I I I didn't believe it. I
[02:47:36] thought there's no way. I go, "There's
[02:47:38] no way this is real. I I I don't believe
[02:47:40] it." So, Scott was really cool. He said,
[02:47:42] "Look, man, I I understand you're
[02:47:44] skeptic. I get it. I want you to do me a
[02:47:47] favor.
[02:47:48] Go online. Search it yourself. I won't
[02:47:51] even tell you where it is. I'll just
[02:47:53] tell you what who who took the pictures.
[02:47:56] E The The only thing he gave us is the
[02:47:58] picture number is 0501. That's what the
[02:48:01] picture number is. He goes, "If you find
[02:48:03] it, have what whoever on your team play
[02:48:05] around with it until you see it." That
[02:48:07] was fair cuz I said, "Okay." Cuz I mean,
[02:48:10] if it's if it's out there, there's two
[02:48:12] different places it was
[02:48:14] on online and the one place we got it
[02:48:16] from was the source of it, okay? Was the
[02:48:20] from the photographer, the guy himself.
[02:48:24] We take it. I had three different people
[02:48:27] on my team. Everybody's really good at
[02:48:29] all this stuff on my team. So, I said,
[02:48:30] "Guys,
[02:48:31] this is what we need to see. If you guys
[02:48:33] could pull it up, I I I'm I'm not going
[02:48:37] to be a skeptical. Everybody got it
[02:48:39] almost in the same time. They were
[02:48:41] playing around and eventually the the
[02:48:43] easiest software we used to get that
[02:48:46] detail out was DaVinci Resolve. And with
[02:48:48] DaVinci, it's a faster process than if
[02:48:51] you're messing around with Photoshop or
[02:48:52] whatever.
[02:48:53] And it came and I was like, "Oh my god."
[02:48:57] It it it's it's really there. You could
[02:48:59] clear So, what I did is I had them scan
[02:49:02] the rest of the picture because it's
[02:49:04] pixels, right? So, I said, "Let's also
[02:49:07] see if it's not some pixel pixelation.
[02:49:10] Is it maybe just what the photo does?
[02:49:13] Maybe we just got lucky and it looks
[02:49:14] like that there. Maybe it's going to
[02:49:15] show something similar elsewhere." And
[02:49:18] it doesn't. And then I said, "All right,
[02:49:20] go get me 0502. I want 0500. I want"
[02:49:23] because the guy kept snapping pictures.
[02:49:25] I want you to do the same Like we went
[02:49:27] really military. Like I said, "I want to
[02:49:29] make sure this is this is real. I don't
[02:49:32] I'm not going to put our name on this if
[02:49:33] it's not." And then it ended up being
[02:49:36] other pictures also show it, by the way,
[02:49:38] cuz he he went click click click. So,
[02:49:40] it's like it's not just that one. That's
[02:49:42] the clearest one. And so, I was at a
[02:49:46] certain point I go to Bob's house and
[02:49:48] I'm sitting there and the guy
[02:49:51] calls me. Scott Mitchell calls me and he
[02:49:54] he has no idea I'm with I'm with Bob
[02:49:55] Lazar.
[02:49:56] So, I pick up. It's a video call.
[02:49:59] And he goes, "Hey, man, what's going
[02:50:00] on?" I said, "Well, look." I said, "Look
[02:50:02] who I'm with." And he just like exploded
[02:50:04] cuz he was like, "Oh my god, you're with
[02:50:05] Bob." And I said, "Show him." And so,
[02:50:07] Bob was there and we showed it we ended
[02:50:10] up transferring the call on a on a Zoom
[02:50:12] call. And he showed it and you said,
[02:50:15] "Yeah." Like I remember you going,
[02:50:17] "Yeah, that's it." Yeah, yeah, that.
[02:50:19] What did that look like to you when you
[02:50:20] saw those images?
[02:50:21] >> that was that was awesome.
[02:50:22] >> Yeah.
[02:50:23] >> It was awesome. What what was really
[02:50:25] shocking was the first hangar was
[02:50:28] bigger. Yeah.
[02:50:29] >> And that's what we discovered. Yeah.
[02:50:30] >> Yeah.
[02:50:31] >> Yeah, cuz the first hangar is the big
[02:50:32] hangar and there's a bunch of smaller
[02:50:33] ones. And I said, "Jesus, the first
[02:50:35] hangar is bigger. You You found it. You
[02:50:38] found it." So, I mean, that that was I I
[02:50:42] just lit up at that point.
[02:50:44] >> it was
[02:50:44] >> What happens if you look at that site
[02:50:45] with Google Earth?
[02:50:47] That is with the Google Earth.
[02:50:48] >> No. No, that was the picture, but Google
[02:50:50] Earth but Google Earth and I'll tell you
[02:50:52] something about Google That that was the
[02:50:54] >> That wasn't with the Google Earth?
[02:50:55] >> No, the the picture is a real photo.
[02:50:57] The picture of the hangar doors is a
[02:50:59] real photo.
[02:51:00] >> I said that was Google Earth.
[02:51:01] >> No. No, the picture is a real photo. The
[02:51:02] Google Earth, though, you see that in
[02:51:04] the film.
[02:51:05] >> Yeah.
[02:51:06] I can't make this up. I didn't want to
[02:51:08] put anything in the film. That was one
[02:51:10] of my things. I did not want to put
[02:51:12] anything in the film that would make me,
[02:51:14] the whole team, or even Bob look like
[02:51:17] we're trying to like
[02:51:19] MacGyver some something in there. It has
[02:51:21] to be you go look for it yourself. It's
[02:51:24] public. If you don't believe it, go
[02:51:27] check it out yourself. I That's how
[02:51:29] That's what was That's the only thing we
[02:51:30] allowed in there. And
[02:51:33] when you go on Papoose Lake,
[02:51:36] on June 20 So, June 22nd of 2024,
[02:51:42] June of 2024,
[02:51:45] Google Earth changed. There's you're
[02:51:48] you're going to be right over Papoose
[02:51:50] Lake. If you zoom in, you're you're not
[02:51:52] going to notice it cuz it it's kind of a
[02:51:54] yellowish a tint to the to the image.
[02:51:58] And I remember going, "Why is it so
[02:52:00] yellow?" I mean, I'd been there so many
[02:52:01] times. I was like, "Why Why it
[02:52:03] turned so yellow?"
[02:52:05] And I'm like I saw I I'm zooming out and
[02:52:07] I'm like, "Why did they it up?" I
[02:52:09] thought they ruined everything.
[02:52:11] It's all yellow. And as I go further,
[02:52:14] you see this box that is like right over
[02:52:18] Papoose. So, I'm like, "What is that?"
[02:52:21] And I put my mouse over it and wherever
[02:52:24] you're in the box, it's June 22nd, 2024.
[02:52:29] And as soon as you put your mouse
[02:52:31] outside of the box, well, it's an older
[02:52:33] date.
[02:52:35] And I thought, "Oh, they just did that."
[02:52:38] And the mis- So, I think what they
[02:52:41] thought they were going to do
[02:52:43] is that new filter right over Papoose
[02:52:46] Lake removes every possible detail on
[02:52:50] the terrain the landscape.
[02:52:52] Where the brushes are and the the Joshua
[02:52:54] trees are. It really really removes all
[02:52:57] that.
[02:52:57] >> everything.
[02:52:57] >> It blurs everything out. But it makes
[02:53:00] they made a mistake. They made a huge
[02:53:02] error. I believe so. And I think if
[02:53:04] they're listening, they're going to go,
[02:53:05] "Yeah,
[02:53:06] our bad." To the to the DoD cuz they're
[02:53:09] going cuz you see all the tracks on the
[02:53:12] lake.
[02:53:13] It for some reason that filter
[02:53:16] accentuates the tracks on Papoose Lake
[02:53:20] and removes the landscape brushes for I
[02:53:23] don't know why. It just did that. And I
[02:53:26] was like, "Holy you see all these
[02:53:29] tracks." What it looks like is they're
[02:53:31] trying to purposely obscure the area.
[02:53:33] >> Yes. And the fact that it's in a very
[02:53:35] clear box.
[02:53:36] >> Yeah. And you talked about that in the
[02:53:38] film. And it's kind of bonkers.
[02:53:39] >> And what's crazy
[02:53:40] >> no reason
[02:53:41] >> There's no reason.
[02:53:42] >> one little square box out of Why? Why?
[02:53:45] That nobody goes to, right? Yeah. So,
[02:53:48] they tried to obscure it. Yeah. Yeah.
[02:53:49] Why would
[02:53:50] >> I thought, "Jeez, dude, we got to put
[02:53:52] this in there. I mean, it's so cool,
[02:53:54] right?" It's all very compelling.
[02:53:56] Um
[02:53:58] I think we should wrap this up, but uh
[02:54:00] the film's excellent. Thank you.
[02:54:01] >> Congratulations. You can tell it took a
[02:54:03] tremendous amount of effort. And uh I
[02:54:05] could tell by watching you watch it when
[02:54:08] we watched it together that it had an
[02:54:09] insane impact on you. It it really
[02:54:12] affected me.
[02:54:12] >> before I saw it with you. So, you're
[02:54:14] just seeing it again. It's just like
[02:54:17] it's bonkers. Yeah, it it really
[02:54:20] affected me. And uh
[02:54:22] is Is there anything else you want to
[02:54:25] say? There's a couple things I want to
[02:54:27] bring up.
[02:54:27] >> Okay.
[02:54:28] >> You know.
[02:54:28] >> Yeah. Um
[02:54:30] Just because I stuff Luigi has told me,
[02:54:33] people think that I make millions of
[02:54:35] dollars off of this stuff.
[02:54:37] >> [laughter]
[02:54:37] >> Oh, yeah. And I don't. I would I would
[02:54:40] love to sign on to the millions of
[02:54:42] dollars program. [laughter]
[02:54:43] Um you know, Jeremy made made his movie
[02:54:47] and I didn't get a cent from Jeremy's
[02:54:49] movie. I said, "Anything you make, give
[02:54:51] to George." Um
[02:54:53] you know, it Luigi has spent millions of
[02:54:57] dollars of his own money, literally,
[02:54:59] right?
[02:54:59] >> Literally.
[02:55:00] >> know, making this stuff. And I can't see
[02:55:03] how he's ever going to make the money
[02:55:05] back. If he does, that's awesome. I
[02:55:07] drive a uh 1980-something
[02:55:11] uh
[02:55:12] >> Not a 1980. You drive a
[02:55:14] >> No, 19
[02:55:15] >> 2018 No, a 20 2018 Chevy Bolt electric
[02:55:19] car. I mean, it's a car you'd buy for
[02:55:22] your teenage daughter. It's embarrassing
[02:55:24] to drive. It cost me $18,000.
[02:55:27] You know, my house on the 10 acres cost
[02:55:30] 450 grand. And you know, back when I
[02:55:33] when I got it, I mean, that's that's I
[02:55:35] work 6 to 7 days a week at United
[02:55:39] Nuclear, my business. I mean, if there's
[02:55:42] anyone that wants to give me millions of
[02:55:43] dollars, please [laughter]
[02:55:45] contact contact me immediately because I
[02:55:48] would like to retire. But but no, I
[02:55:50] don't make millions of dollars off this
[02:55:52] stuff. And uh I
[02:55:56] I my my wife and I do fine. We grow our
[02:55:58] food in our greenhouse and we live in
[02:56:00] our little place up in the mountains and
[02:56:02] that that that's it. But I um you know,
[02:56:05] this is Luigi's thing. That's why he's
[02:56:08] here. I think the film's going to be
[02:56:09] very successful and I think you're
[02:56:11] probably going to make money off of it.
[02:56:12] At least I'm hoping.
[02:56:13] >> he'll make money off it.
[02:56:14] >> Well,
[02:56:15] >> [laughter]
[02:56:15] >> he'll make money off of it.
[02:56:17] >> I Thank you, Joe. Um
[02:56:19] I think we should wrap it up. Thank you
[02:56:20] very much, Luigi. Knocked it out of the
[02:56:22] park.
[02:56:23] >> you.
[02:56:23] >> It's fantastic. Bob, great to see you
[02:56:25] again, as always. I'm sorry I had to pee
[02:56:27] so much. That's okay.
[02:56:29] >> [laughter]
[02:56:31] >> It's understandable. It's
[02:56:32] understandable. And uh again, the film
[02:56:35] uh let's show it on the screen, Jamie,
[02:56:37] so people can know uh where they could
[02:56:39] see it when they
[02:56:40] when it's available.
[02:56:41] >> Yeah, it's available actually as of
[02:56:44] right now.
[02:56:45] Let's play the trailer. We'll we'll
[02:56:46] we'll end it with
[02:56:47] >> let's do that. S4 The Bob Lazar Story.
[02:56:50] We'll end it with a trailer.
[02:56:53] It's on Amazon and uh We Are Not Alone.
[02:56:56] >> Not Alone, right?
[02:57:15] Physical evidence now exists which
[02:57:17] proves that there is life elsewhere and
[02:57:19] at least one form of that life has been
[02:57:20] here.
[02:57:23] As of 1989, that evidence was in the
[02:57:26] custody of the United States government.
[02:57:29] Between December of 1988 and April of
[02:57:32] 1989, I worked as a senior staff
[02:57:34] physicist in what has to be the most
[02:57:36] secret project in history.
[02:57:40] My job in this program was to be part of
[02:57:42] a back-engineering team.
[02:57:45] >> [music]
[02:57:46] >> This particular disk appeared to be in
[02:57:48] excellent condition and because of its
[02:57:50] sleek appearance, I nicknamed it the
[02:57:52] sport model.
[02:57:55] The goal in this program was to see if
[02:57:57] the technology of the disk could be
[02:57:59] duplicated with Earth materials.
[02:58:02] To start up the reactor, of course, we
[02:58:04] need [music] some element 115.
[02:58:07] In fact, you need 223 g machined into a
[02:58:10] wedge like this.
[02:58:12] The program at Area S4 [music] consisted
[02:58:14] of three projects: Project Galileo,
[02:58:16] Project Sidekick, and Project Looking
[02:58:18] Glass.
[02:58:20] The file on top was [music] Project
[02:58:22] Galileo. And as it turned out, that's
[02:58:24] the project that I was part of. And that
[02:58:28] clearly
[02:58:30] [music]
[02:58:32] referred to
[02:58:33] alien spacecraft.
[02:58:38] Just cannot be a secret from
[02:58:40] from anyone, [music] not just the
[02:58:41] American people, but the rest of the
[02:58:42] world.
[02:58:48] All this stuff is something that
[02:58:49] happened to him. It's not who he is.
[02:58:55] They're doing everything they can to
[02:58:57] keep this information secret.
[02:59:02] That's empirical evidence. I saw a craft
[02:59:05] to do that, thanks to him.
[02:59:09] >> [music]
[02:59:09] >> Help this story spills.
[02:59:13] And the world change.
[02:59:23] Bye.
[02:59:29] >> [music]