WEBVTT 00:00:00.240 --> 00:00:04.640 Today, I am thrilled to welcome Stripe's 00:00:02.560 --> 00:00:06.878 head of design, Katie Dill, back to the 00:00:04.639 --> 00:00:09.599 show. Katie and her team recently 00:00:06.878 --> 00:00:11.199 launched a brand new Stripe homepage. 00:00:09.599 --> 00:00:13.599 She's going to take us behind the scenes 00:00:11.199 --> 00:00:16.160 of the new website and talk about how AI 00:00:13.599 --> 00:00:18.000 is changing her team's design process. 00:00:16.160 --> 00:00:21.000 Welcome to another episode of Design 00:00:18.000 --> 00:00:21.000 Review. 00:00:26.000 --> 00:00:28.079 >> Katie, thank you so much for joining us 00:00:27.760 --> 00:00:29.599 again. 00:00:28.079 --> 00:00:30.320 >> Well, thank you for having me. It's nice 00:00:29.599 --> 00:00:32.079 to be back. 00:00:30.320 --> 00:00:34.079 >> I saw along with everybody else when you 00:00:32.079 --> 00:00:35.359 launched the new Stripe homepage and I 00:00:34.079 --> 00:00:37.439 thought it would be amazing to have you 00:00:35.359 --> 00:00:40.399 on and kind of take us through the old 00:00:37.439 --> 00:00:42.320 site and uh things that you wanted to 00:00:40.399 --> 00:00:44.160 change about it and update cuz I know 00:00:42.320 --> 00:00:46.238 it's been a few years since you launched 00:00:44.159 --> 00:00:47.759 that one and then take us through the 00:00:46.238 --> 00:00:50.078 new one and talk a little bit about the 00:00:47.759 --> 00:00:51.359 process that you used in order to get to 00:00:50.079 --> 00:00:51.679 uh where you guys landed with the new 00:00:51.359 --> 00:00:53.439 one. 00:00:51.679 --> 00:00:54.079 >> I do enjoy a good design crit with you. 00:00:53.439 --> 00:00:55.759 So, let's do it. 00:00:54.079 --> 00:00:57.920 >> All right, let's jump into uh the 00:00:55.759 --> 00:01:00.399 original site. So, how long ago did you 00:00:57.920 --> 00:01:02.399 launch this one? This one was from 2020. 00:01:00.399 --> 00:01:02.640 >> Okay. So, we're talking six years ago at 00:01:02.399 --> 00:01:03.920 this point. 00:01:02.640 --> 00:01:05.599 >> Yeah. Kudos to the team. I wasn't there 00:01:03.920 --> 00:01:07.439 at the time, but I do think that they 00:01:05.599 --> 00:01:08.798 built something that stood the test of 00:01:07.438 --> 00:01:11.039 time quite well. 00:01:08.799 --> 00:01:12.799 >> Uh we weren't, you know, oh my gosh, we 00:01:11.040 --> 00:01:14.000 have to change it. It's been too long. 00:01:12.799 --> 00:01:16.479 It's just, you know, it doesn't work 00:01:14.000 --> 00:01:18.560 anymore. It actually was standing up 00:01:16.478 --> 00:01:20.640 quite well. And when we endeavored to 00:01:18.560 --> 00:01:22.719 change it, it was because the business 00:01:20.640 --> 00:01:25.280 had just evolved beyond the point of 00:01:22.719 --> 00:01:26.478 what this story was was being told on 00:01:25.280 --> 00:01:28.159 this site. And I'll explain that in a 00:01:26.478 --> 00:01:30.879 little bit. Of course, we wanted to kind 00:01:28.159 --> 00:01:33.600 of freshen it up as a part of our brand 00:01:30.879 --> 00:01:35.280 that also had been evolving and becoming 00:01:33.599 --> 00:01:37.359 more sophisticated and reaching, you 00:01:35.280 --> 00:01:39.519 know, a broader set of users. Uh, but 00:01:37.359 --> 00:01:41.200 still it was it was a good site. So, I 00:01:39.519 --> 00:01:42.319 can point out a couple of things that we 00:01:41.200 --> 00:01:42.799 uh aimed to change. 00:01:42.319 --> 00:01:46.239 >> Yeah. 00:01:42.799 --> 00:01:48.799 >> Uh, so one, you know, this evolved over 00:01:46.239 --> 00:01:50.399 time. We certainly had changed the words 00:01:48.799 --> 00:01:53.360 on the site and exactly how it was 00:01:50.399 --> 00:01:55.118 portraying what we do. Um, and then also 00:01:53.359 --> 00:01:57.438 some of the the product shots that we 00:01:55.118 --> 00:01:59.599 were including. Um and then of course 00:01:57.438 --> 00:02:02.158 our users as we you know continue to 00:01:59.599 --> 00:02:05.118 evolve and um help more in different 00:02:02.159 --> 00:02:07.200 categories or larger enterprises or uh 00:02:05.118 --> 00:02:09.118 growing startups. But then as you go 00:02:07.200 --> 00:02:11.120 down the page we were articulating the 00:02:09.118 --> 00:02:12.239 number of things that we do and this is 00:02:11.120 --> 00:02:14.080 actually one of the things that had 00:02:12.239 --> 00:02:15.759 evolved the most over the last couple of 00:02:14.080 --> 00:02:18.640 years because our product suite was 00:02:15.759 --> 00:02:21.039 evolving. And so for example we started 00:02:18.639 --> 00:02:23.759 with payments being a main part of our 00:02:21.039 --> 00:02:27.359 business but over time uh payments is 00:02:23.759 --> 00:02:31.039 just one part of it. We now today serve 00:02:27.360 --> 00:02:33.200 you in multi- uh national enterprises in 00:02:31.039 --> 00:02:35.679 many categories including helping them 00:02:33.199 --> 00:02:38.238 with subscriptions, helping AI companies 00:02:35.680 --> 00:02:41.519 with usage based billing, tax revenue 00:02:38.239 --> 00:02:43.439 recognition platforms like Shopify and 00:02:41.519 --> 00:02:45.680 helping them move money for the 00:02:43.439 --> 00:02:48.318 businesses in their um on their 00:02:45.680 --> 00:02:50.959 platform. And so these stories were 00:02:48.318 --> 00:02:53.439 coming through here, but you were kind 00:02:50.959 --> 00:02:55.439 of only getting a glimpse of the product 00:02:53.439 --> 00:02:57.039 offering that Stripe provided. And so 00:02:55.439 --> 00:02:59.280 this was probably the biggest thing that 00:02:57.039 --> 00:03:01.919 we realized that we needed to change. So 00:02:59.280 --> 00:03:04.318 we needed to adjust that. And the other 00:03:01.919 --> 00:03:06.479 piece is that, you know, the page grows 00:03:04.318 --> 00:03:09.039 quite long. There's a lot of trying to 00:03:06.479 --> 00:03:10.719 be told here. uh we were doing that 00:03:09.039 --> 00:03:13.359 thing that happens over time where you 00:03:10.719 --> 00:03:16.000 kind of add on and add on and we're kind 00:03:13.360 --> 00:03:19.840 of losing the the narrative uh with the 00:03:16.000 --> 00:03:21.919 site and so we thought to think about 00:03:19.840 --> 00:03:23.280 ways that we could uh update that 00:03:21.919 --> 00:03:25.359 narrative. Now of course you could 00:03:23.280 --> 00:03:26.959 adjust that what was here but we 00:03:25.360 --> 00:03:29.680 realized that it was also time to 00:03:26.959 --> 00:03:31.759 refresh the visuals. uh it I don't think 00:03:29.680 --> 00:03:34.239 that the you know the visuals came out 00:03:31.759 --> 00:03:36.878 of fashion but it also just didn't feel 00:03:34.239 --> 00:03:39.200 like it took the sophistication of how 00:03:36.878 --> 00:03:41.120 the business itself evolved. Uh and we 00:03:39.199 --> 00:03:43.199 were seeing it honestly in the way that 00:03:41.120 --> 00:03:44.878 our teams were kind of rolling out this 00:03:43.199 --> 00:03:47.679 design language. There wasn't a lot of 00:03:44.878 --> 00:03:50.000 clarity on how do we use this 12 degree 00:03:47.680 --> 00:03:52.879 bar, how do we use colors and overlays? 00:03:50.000 --> 00:03:54.639 Um how do we use our typography? Um the 00:03:52.878 --> 00:03:56.479 gradient wave that's at the top was 00:03:54.639 --> 00:03:59.039 certainly an element but it didn't 00:03:56.479 --> 00:04:02.639 really scale well. So, we had to create 00:03:59.039 --> 00:04:03.919 a new design vision for our language and 00:04:02.639 --> 00:04:05.279 then update the story. 00:04:03.919 --> 00:04:07.359 >> It's interesting because you mentioned 00:04:05.280 --> 00:04:08.479 that visually I look at this and this 00:04:07.360 --> 00:04:10.319 looks like a site that could have been 00:04:08.479 --> 00:04:12.238 launched yesterday. Um, and I think 00:04:10.318 --> 00:04:14.158 that's a testament to how Stripe has 00:04:12.239 --> 00:04:15.759 always been so far ahead of the game 00:04:14.158 --> 00:04:17.599 >> from a design perspective that you could 00:04:15.759 --> 00:04:20.238 have a site that's 6 years old and 00:04:17.600 --> 00:04:21.519 obviously you you made updates to it 00:04:20.238 --> 00:04:22.719 over the years. This wasn't literally 00:04:21.519 --> 00:04:25.199 the site that you launched six years 00:04:22.720 --> 00:04:26.479 ago, right? But um clearly it has stood 00:04:25.199 --> 00:04:28.478 the test of time which is really 00:04:26.478 --> 00:04:29.839 impressive and it makes sense that 00:04:28.478 --> 00:04:31.599 you've got all these different customers 00:04:29.839 --> 00:04:33.599 now. It seems like the approach that you 00:04:31.600 --> 00:04:35.520 took with the old one was just keep 00:04:33.600 --> 00:04:37.040 adding sections that would target 00:04:35.519 --> 00:04:38.478 different types of users and hopefully 00:04:37.040 --> 00:04:40.240 people would scroll until they hit the 00:04:38.478 --> 00:04:41.918 one that's right for them. And it sounds 00:04:40.240 --> 00:04:43.040 like maybe you've rethought that for the 00:04:41.918 --> 00:04:44.799 new site that you launched. 00:04:43.040 --> 00:04:46.879 >> Yeah, I mean like perfect example, you 00:04:44.800 --> 00:04:48.560 know, AI is very big part of our 00:04:46.879 --> 00:04:51.360 business. It's both like how we build 00:04:48.560 --> 00:04:56.560 what we build and who we build for. like 00:04:51.360 --> 00:04:59.040 over 78% of the Forbes AI 50 use Stripe 00:04:56.560 --> 00:05:01.918 and they are using our products to help 00:04:59.040 --> 00:05:03.600 them scale really fast and help them 00:05:01.918 --> 00:05:06.399 monetize in new ways right so usage 00:05:03.600 --> 00:05:07.919 based billing so that you can uh make 00:05:06.399 --> 00:05:10.000 the right moves for your inferences 00:05:07.918 --> 00:05:12.719 costs and how your users are actually 00:05:10.000 --> 00:05:13.918 using your product and it's a tile on 00:05:12.720 --> 00:05:15.919 the website 00:05:13.918 --> 00:05:17.279 >> so the story was missing like what we're 00:05:15.918 --> 00:05:19.198 actually building wasn't coming clear 00:05:17.279 --> 00:05:20.799 and so when we realized okay now it's 00:05:19.199 --> 00:05:22.478 time to update our site I would say 00:05:20.800 --> 00:05:24.720 there's a couple of things on that front 00:05:22.478 --> 00:05:25.839 which is one like first principles what 00:05:24.720 --> 00:05:27.440 are we trying to do here like what is 00:05:25.839 --> 00:05:28.399 the point of a website anyways I 00:05:27.439 --> 00:05:30.000 remember being in a meeting where 00:05:28.399 --> 00:05:32.000 Patrick asked like well what is the 00:05:30.000 --> 00:05:33.038 point of a website I think one part of 00:05:32.000 --> 00:05:34.720 it is it's 00:05:33.038 --> 00:05:37.120 >> it's your manifesto whether you 00:05:34.720 --> 00:05:39.600 explicitly call it that or not 00:05:37.120 --> 00:05:42.639 >> because you're demonstrating who you are 00:05:39.600 --> 00:05:44.800 what you are doing and why you do it and 00:05:42.639 --> 00:05:46.160 in some indirect ways right it's just 00:05:44.800 --> 00:05:47.680 like the nature of the way that you 00:05:46.160 --> 00:05:49.280 build your site how you present yourself 00:05:47.680 --> 00:05:51.038 what colors you choose what typography 00:05:49.279 --> 00:05:53.038 you choose the details that you choose 00:05:51.038 --> 00:05:55.038 to care and the ones you don't and then 00:05:53.038 --> 00:05:57.199 of course how you articulate what you're 00:05:55.038 --> 00:05:58.879 doing and what you offer. So we set out 00:05:57.199 --> 00:06:00.879 to make sure that the story was 00:05:58.879 --> 00:06:03.519 extremely clear for who we're serving 00:06:00.879 --> 00:06:05.600 and how we're serving them and what we 00:06:03.519 --> 00:06:08.799 care about. And so that's where, you 00:06:05.600 --> 00:06:10.879 know, honestly painstaking hours over a 00:06:08.800 --> 00:06:13.439 year or more is what, you know, ended up 00:06:10.879 --> 00:06:15.360 going into this. Partly because in some 00:06:13.439 --> 00:06:16.959 ways we weren't rushing to get something 00:06:15.360 --> 00:06:18.000 out like when we're ser when we're 00:06:16.959 --> 00:06:19.359 building something for our users, it's 00:06:18.000 --> 00:06:20.720 like, okay, it needs to be out like it 00:06:19.360 --> 00:06:22.639 needs to be out tomorrow because they're 00:06:20.720 --> 00:06:24.960 dependent on this. This was like it was 00:06:22.639 --> 00:06:27.439 for ourselves in a lot of ways. And so 00:06:24.959 --> 00:06:29.279 we certainly could take the time to 00:06:27.439 --> 00:06:31.439 sniff out the right design and, you 00:06:29.279 --> 00:06:33.599 know, get on that scent. Um, and you 00:06:31.439 --> 00:06:36.079 know what? There were many weeks and 00:06:33.600 --> 00:06:37.439 months of design exploration where we 00:06:36.079 --> 00:06:39.038 liked it, but we're like, "No, that's 00:06:37.439 --> 00:06:40.560 not it." Yeah, we're not ready to, you 00:06:39.038 --> 00:06:42.639 know, wear that shirt for the next six 00:06:40.560 --> 00:06:44.319 years or whatever it might be. 00:06:42.639 --> 00:06:46.319 >> And so, it's financial infrastructure to 00:06:44.319 --> 00:06:48.160 grow your revenue as the first one, 00:06:46.319 --> 00:06:49.680 >> which is the exact same for a sentence. 00:06:48.160 --> 00:06:51.039 So, that has remained consistent and it 00:06:49.680 --> 00:06:53.840 seems like what you wanted to add here 00:06:51.038 --> 00:06:54.879 was the extra things here that would 00:06:53.839 --> 00:06:55.198 catch other people. 00:06:54.879 --> 00:06:56.639 >> Yeah. 00:06:55.199 --> 00:06:57.840 >> That where Strike would actually be the 00:06:56.639 --> 00:06:58.879 right product for them, too. 00:06:57.839 --> 00:07:00.719 >> Yeah. One of the things that's 00:06:58.879 --> 00:07:02.478 interesting is I like looking at sites 00:07:00.720 --> 00:07:04.080 and trying to figure out what is 00:07:02.478 --> 00:07:06.159 something that only this company could 00:07:04.079 --> 00:07:07.918 do that nobody else could do. And one of 00:07:06.160 --> 00:07:10.479 the things that stands out to me is the 00:07:07.918 --> 00:07:12.799 GDP counter that you have here. It's not 00:07:10.478 --> 00:07:16.240 many companies that could um that could 00:07:12.800 --> 00:07:19.439 have a live counter of the percentage of 00:07:16.240 --> 00:07:21.519 the global GDP, not even just US GDP 00:07:19.439 --> 00:07:23.439 that is running on Stripe. Talk about 00:07:21.519 --> 00:07:25.279 the decision to put that right up at the 00:07:23.439 --> 00:07:27.199 top as well. Well, I would imagine a lot 00:07:25.279 --> 00:07:28.559 of, you know, people watching and people 00:07:27.199 --> 00:07:31.199 building websites are thinking about, 00:07:28.560 --> 00:07:33.439 well, how can we demonstrate the the 00:07:31.199 --> 00:07:35.199 impact that we're having, the the reason 00:07:33.439 --> 00:07:37.439 why you should trust us, the social 00:07:35.199 --> 00:07:39.038 proof, you know, what users trust us 00:07:37.439 --> 00:07:41.360 before. Uh, these are important 00:07:39.038 --> 00:07:43.439 messages. They they help the, you know, 00:07:41.360 --> 00:07:45.280 the the potential customer understand 00:07:43.439 --> 00:07:46.719 like whether or not this is a brand that 00:07:45.279 --> 00:07:48.318 you could trust and okay, good to know 00:07:46.720 --> 00:07:50.080 that you've done it for others. As I 00:07:48.319 --> 00:07:51.840 expressed earlier, like we're, you know, 00:07:50.079 --> 00:07:53.199 trying to help everybody from a micro 00:07:51.839 --> 00:07:55.198 entrepreneur who's going to grow a 00:07:53.199 --> 00:07:57.120 startup to hopefully great success as 00:07:55.199 --> 00:07:59.439 well as these large enterprises. It 00:07:57.120 --> 00:08:01.840 matters a lot to them whether or not 00:07:59.439 --> 00:08:03.439 that Stripe is dependable, reliable, 00:08:01.839 --> 00:08:04.159 trustworthy, and can operate at their 00:08:03.439 --> 00:08:05.598 scale. 00:08:04.160 --> 00:08:07.039 >> So, we ask ourselves, well, how do we 00:08:05.598 --> 00:08:08.800 express that? How do we help you see 00:08:07.038 --> 00:08:10.878 that we can? Of course, one of the ways 00:08:08.800 --> 00:08:12.478 is that we tell you about the users that 00:08:10.879 --> 00:08:14.560 use us, and you can see that scrolling 00:08:12.478 --> 00:08:16.800 across the bottom. But another way is 00:08:14.560 --> 00:08:18.319 like you know the actual enormous impact 00:08:16.800 --> 00:08:20.400 that we have had the the privilege and 00:08:18.319 --> 00:08:22.960 the responsibility of serving in that 00:08:20.399 --> 00:08:24.959 can actually be quantified in the GDP. 00:08:22.959 --> 00:08:26.638 >> Yeah. I love that. And the other key 00:08:24.959 --> 00:08:28.159 word here too is billionth. You know 00:08:26.639 --> 00:08:30.400 like that just signals if you do 00:08:28.160 --> 00:08:31.039 billions of transactions stripe is right 00:08:30.399 --> 00:08:32.559 for you. 00:08:31.038 --> 00:08:33.519 >> Yeah. YC companies. 00:08:32.559 --> 00:08:34.478 >> Yeah. 00:08:33.519 --> 00:08:36.959 >> You got this. 00:08:34.479 --> 00:08:38.479 >> Yeah. Yeah. Very cool. Okay. Take us 00:08:36.958 --> 00:08:39.838 through uh the other sections that you 00:08:38.479 --> 00:08:41.919 you put underneath that. 00:08:39.839 --> 00:08:44.320 >> Yeah. All right. So this next section is 00:08:41.918 --> 00:08:46.240 what we call our bento. And so this is 00:08:44.320 --> 00:08:47.519 probably the big area that's seeking to 00:08:46.240 --> 00:08:50.159 solve some of the problems I talked 00:08:47.519 --> 00:08:51.759 about earlier about really expressing 00:08:50.159 --> 00:08:54.480 kind of like the scale of the product 00:08:51.759 --> 00:08:57.039 offering. And so before you saw like 00:08:54.480 --> 00:08:58.560 okay we do issuing we do payments. Uh 00:08:57.039 --> 00:09:00.958 but here we're trying to depict a little 00:08:58.559 --> 00:09:03.039 bit more of the solution set. And so 00:09:00.958 --> 00:09:05.599 payments yes we do payments we do online 00:09:03.039 --> 00:09:07.120 payments we also do terminal. Uh billing 00:09:05.600 --> 00:09:09.600 is you know what we were talking about 00:09:07.120 --> 00:09:10.879 earlier about usage based billing or um 00:09:09.600 --> 00:09:12.639 you know could be fixed fee 00:09:10.879 --> 00:09:15.759 subscriptions any number of these types 00:09:12.639 --> 00:09:17.600 of things are a lot more adjustable and 00:09:15.759 --> 00:09:19.600 um customizable to the businesses we're 00:09:17.600 --> 00:09:22.720 serving. uh we talked a little bit about 00:09:19.600 --> 00:09:24.480 the the role that AI plays in the 00:09:22.720 --> 00:09:27.360 organizations and so we wanted to make 00:09:24.480 --> 00:09:30.080 that clear our issuing product stable 00:09:27.360 --> 00:09:32.000 coins and then of course the way that we 00:09:30.080 --> 00:09:34.240 uh provide for platform businesses and 00:09:32.000 --> 00:09:37.600 marketplaces and so what we're trying to 00:09:34.240 --> 00:09:39.360 do here is not overwhelm you with too 00:09:37.600 --> 00:09:41.519 much going on I mean that I know there 00:09:39.360 --> 00:09:42.399 is a lot on this page but you know you 00:09:41.519 --> 00:09:44.879 can see that 00:09:42.399 --> 00:09:46.799 >> there's a very little text we're just 00:09:44.879 --> 00:09:48.639 trying to get the point across to give 00:09:46.799 --> 00:09:50.719 you enough of a sense of like, okay, 00:09:48.639 --> 00:09:53.120 this may be for me. And then what we're 00:09:50.720 --> 00:09:55.600 really trying to do is show rather than 00:09:53.120 --> 00:09:57.839 tell. So, hence the imagery. And then 00:09:55.600 --> 00:10:00.639 the quick way that you can gain more 00:09:57.839 --> 00:10:02.480 insight is we do this kind of overlay, 00:10:00.639 --> 00:10:04.399 this larger modal, so you don't actually 00:10:02.480 --> 00:10:05.600 have to go off your course. You're not 00:10:04.399 --> 00:10:07.278 we're not taking you away from the 00:10:05.600 --> 00:10:08.720 homepage yet, but we can give you a 00:10:07.278 --> 00:10:11.200 little bit more of a sense of what this 00:10:08.720 --> 00:10:12.480 is all about. There's many products 00:10:11.200 --> 00:10:14.959 layered into this, right? Like, you 00:10:12.480 --> 00:10:17.680 know, we on that bento, it's 1, two, 00:10:14.958 --> 00:10:20.239 three, four, five, six. But that's, you 00:10:17.679 --> 00:10:23.359 know, I think we have many, many more 00:10:20.240 --> 00:10:25.200 dozen products on top of that that we 00:10:23.360 --> 00:10:26.240 can't express all on one page. That 00:10:25.200 --> 00:10:28.320 would just be too much and would 00:10:26.240 --> 00:10:30.159 overwhelm you. So, we want to give you 00:10:28.320 --> 00:10:31.920 essentially progressive disclosure as a 00:10:30.159 --> 00:10:33.360 way of of getting towards the more 00:10:31.919 --> 00:10:34.078 details behind the products and more 00:10:33.360 --> 00:10:35.278 things that we offer. 00:10:34.078 --> 00:10:37.120 >> Yeah, that's very cool. I don't know 00:10:35.278 --> 00:10:38.799 that I've seen this specific design with 00:10:37.120 --> 00:10:40.480 the bento box and the modals that you 00:10:38.799 --> 00:10:42.000 can pop up that give more information 00:10:40.480 --> 00:10:44.079 directly on the page. It's an 00:10:42.000 --> 00:10:46.320 interesting smart choice because rather 00:10:44.078 --> 00:10:47.759 than take people to a dedicated page, 00:10:46.320 --> 00:10:50.160 you keep them right here. Show them what 00:10:47.759 --> 00:10:51.759 they want. You give buttons to to jump 00:10:50.159 --> 00:10:53.360 to the next section or you can keep 00:10:51.759 --> 00:10:54.480 scrolling down if this is not the right 00:10:53.360 --> 00:10:56.480 thing that you're looking for. 00:10:54.480 --> 00:10:59.200 >> Yeah. That that you want it to feel 00:10:56.480 --> 00:11:01.200 light. You want it to feel easy to kind 00:10:59.200 --> 00:11:03.120 of explore and engage and you're taking 00:11:01.200 --> 00:11:05.440 them on a journey for sure. You want to 00:11:03.120 --> 00:11:07.759 help them get to where they're going. Uh 00:11:05.440 --> 00:11:10.079 but yeah, I think if we leapt people off 00:11:07.759 --> 00:11:11.278 the page, you know, when it might be too 00:11:10.078 --> 00:11:13.120 early for them to have made their 00:11:11.278 --> 00:11:15.039 decision on what they're actually going 00:11:13.120 --> 00:11:17.120 after. Uh so this is really just a bit 00:11:15.039 --> 00:11:19.278 more of a browse experience and it's a 00:11:17.120 --> 00:11:19.759 gives them a bit more of a a chance to 00:11:19.278 --> 00:11:22.159 explore. 00:11:19.759 --> 00:11:24.399 >> YC Starter School is back. We're hand 00:11:22.159 --> 00:11:26.159 selecting the most promising builders in 00:11:24.399 --> 00:11:29.440 the world and flying them out to San 00:11:26.159 --> 00:11:31.679 Francisco for July 25th and 26th to 00:11:29.440 --> 00:11:34.160 discuss the cutting edge of tech. Apply 00:11:31.679 --> 00:11:35.439 now for a spot. Okay, back to the video. 00:11:34.159 --> 00:11:36.639 Yeah, it's interesting. Another thing 00:11:35.440 --> 00:11:38.800 that stands out to me is how much 00:11:36.639 --> 00:11:40.639 animation you use um in each of these 00:11:38.799 --> 00:11:42.719 cards. Talk a little about about that 00:11:40.639 --> 00:11:44.799 and and how you can do it without making 00:11:42.720 --> 00:11:45.440 it too overwhelming or distracting for 00:11:44.799 --> 00:11:47.359 people. 00:11:45.440 --> 00:11:49.040 >> Yeah, it's a difficult balance to get. I 00:11:47.360 --> 00:11:51.120 mean, this is where prototyping and 00:11:49.039 --> 00:11:53.039 experimentation like I remember this one 00:11:51.120 --> 00:11:54.639 where it's like we had too many lines at 00:11:53.039 --> 00:11:56.319 first and then we had too few lines at 00:11:54.639 --> 00:11:58.559 first and the the ball was moving too 00:11:56.320 --> 00:12:00.399 fast. Uh so you do have to really 00:11:58.559 --> 00:12:01.919 fine-tune, bring it in. You know, one of 00:12:00.399 --> 00:12:03.600 the things as kind of pointed out 00:12:01.919 --> 00:12:05.759 earlier and when when you're building a 00:12:03.600 --> 00:12:07.278 website like this, you are either, you 00:12:05.759 --> 00:12:09.919 know, both directly and indirectly 00:12:07.278 --> 00:12:11.519 expressing your company's manifesto. So, 00:12:09.919 --> 00:12:14.078 one of the things that we are trying to 00:12:11.519 --> 00:12:15.919 express is the care that we put into the 00:12:14.078 --> 00:12:17.759 work that we do because if you see the 00:12:15.919 --> 00:12:19.360 care that goes here, then you you're 00:12:17.759 --> 00:12:20.958 right to assume that we also put that 00:12:19.360 --> 00:12:22.320 care behind the scenes in the way that 00:12:20.958 --> 00:12:24.799 we move money and the way that we 00:12:22.320 --> 00:12:27.440 protect uh a company's information. 00:12:24.799 --> 00:12:30.159 These are important details to express. 00:12:27.440 --> 00:12:32.240 It's also, you know, the idea of making 00:12:30.159 --> 00:12:34.159 the site feel a bit more alive. 00:12:32.240 --> 00:12:35.680 >> You know, that there's a presence here 00:12:34.159 --> 00:12:37.759 is something that I think the motion 00:12:35.679 --> 00:12:39.439 does really well. You were right though. 00:12:37.759 --> 00:12:41.120 If you go too far with it, it becomes 00:12:39.440 --> 00:12:42.880 distracting. It becomes annoying. Nobody 00:12:41.120 --> 00:12:45.278 really wants to engage with that. And 00:12:42.879 --> 00:12:47.120 so, it's just delicate movements and 00:12:45.278 --> 00:12:48.720 really just like trying to fine-tune it. 00:12:47.120 --> 00:12:50.959 Um, and also thinking about the role 00:12:48.720 --> 00:12:52.240 that when somebody engages with it, 00:12:50.958 --> 00:12:53.759 that's where, you know, you bring 00:12:52.240 --> 00:12:55.278 certain things to life and make sure 00:12:53.759 --> 00:12:57.120 that you're like responding and this 00:12:55.278 --> 00:12:58.720 gives the feedback to also register 00:12:57.120 --> 00:13:00.399 like, okay, I can click on this. You 00:12:58.720 --> 00:13:02.160 might not have known that otherwise. So, 00:13:00.399 --> 00:13:04.000 we try to engage in that way. This is 00:13:02.159 --> 00:13:05.919 where we're we're basically these are 00:13:04.000 --> 00:13:07.440 kind of like the the big important 00:13:05.919 --> 00:13:09.360 metrics that can help you understand 00:13:07.440 --> 00:13:11.519 again kind of the scale of what we 00:13:09.360 --> 00:13:13.120 build. Um, and you know, of course, 00:13:11.519 --> 00:13:15.440 there were versions where we could just 00:13:13.120 --> 00:13:18.159 put the numbers there. Uh but what we 00:13:15.440 --> 00:13:21.360 intended to do with this is to just add 00:13:18.159 --> 00:13:24.319 a little bit of interest. It is loosely 00:13:21.360 --> 00:13:26.560 communicating the intention of these uh 00:13:24.320 --> 00:13:28.240 metrics. It's not really a data viz of 00:13:26.559 --> 00:13:30.078 course. Uh but it gives you a sense of 00:13:28.240 --> 00:13:32.560 like okay here we're talking about 00:13:30.078 --> 00:13:34.719 global scale. Here we're talking about 00:13:32.559 --> 00:13:37.039 um uptime and so you kind of get the 00:13:34.720 --> 00:13:39.519 sense of continuity here. Um but really 00:13:37.039 --> 00:13:41.278 it's just fun. It's just beautiful. Um, 00:13:39.519 --> 00:13:42.799 and then there's, you know, it changes 00:13:41.278 --> 00:13:44.240 depending on what time of day, but if 00:13:42.799 --> 00:13:45.759 you want to go ahead and see what it 00:13:44.240 --> 00:13:46.879 would be like at night, you can come in 00:13:45.759 --> 00:13:48.559 and check it out yourself. 00:13:46.879 --> 00:13:50.320 >> It feels like we're entering an era now 00:13:48.559 --> 00:13:50.879 where websites can be fun again. 00:13:50.320 --> 00:13:53.519 >> Yeah, 00:13:50.879 --> 00:13:55.200 >> they were fun early on and then it got 00:13:53.519 --> 00:13:57.278 to a point where every SAS website 00:13:55.200 --> 00:13:58.639 looked exactly the same. And um, it's 00:13:57.278 --> 00:14:00.078 really cool to see you focused on things 00:13:58.639 --> 00:14:00.399 that are just fun for the sake of being 00:14:00.078 --> 00:14:03.439 fun. 00:14:00.399 --> 00:14:05.198 >> Yeah. I mean, I'm I'm a AI hopeful that 00:14:03.440 --> 00:14:07.519 the creation of these tools that can 00:14:05.198 --> 00:14:10.559 help us move so much faster and 00:14:07.519 --> 00:14:12.720 basically get to like get to good almost 00:14:10.559 --> 00:14:15.359 like instantaneously and almost for 00:14:12.720 --> 00:14:17.759 free. And now great, we can take that 00:14:15.360 --> 00:14:19.278 time to then push it that next level and 00:14:17.759 --> 00:14:22.000 to create something that is really 00:14:19.278 --> 00:14:22.639 interesting and playful and, you know, 00:14:22.000 --> 00:14:24.000 beautiful. 00:14:22.639 --> 00:14:25.519 >> Yeah. I think what's interesting here 00:14:24.000 --> 00:14:27.759 that's that's maybe worth for anybody 00:14:25.519 --> 00:14:29.679 watching to pay attention to is that 00:14:27.759 --> 00:14:31.600 these aren't animations for animation's 00:14:29.679 --> 00:14:33.278 sake or interactivity for interactivity 00:14:31.600 --> 00:14:34.560 sake. There's there's an intention and a 00:14:33.278 --> 00:14:36.639 purpose behind everything that you're 00:14:34.559 --> 00:14:38.078 doing and it's connecting to the 00:14:36.639 --> 00:14:39.680 specific message that you're trying to 00:14:38.078 --> 00:14:41.198 communicate with each of these numbers 00:14:39.679 --> 00:14:42.559 and it's easy to look at it and go like 00:14:41.198 --> 00:14:44.078 oh yeah it's just like a fun kind of 00:14:42.559 --> 00:14:44.719 thing and it is that but it's not 00:14:44.078 --> 00:14:47.278 random. 00:14:44.720 --> 00:14:48.959 >> Yeah. And a lot of thought goes into 00:14:47.278 --> 00:14:50.559 that I'm sure like talk about some of 00:14:48.958 --> 00:14:52.638 the different things that you explored 00:14:50.559 --> 00:14:54.719 or were people even against putting this 00:14:52.639 --> 00:14:57.278 in thinking well what value does it have 00:14:54.720 --> 00:14:59.199 and every inch of the screen has to have 00:14:57.278 --> 00:15:02.078 um you know directly measurable value. 00:14:59.198 --> 00:15:06.078 >> Yeah. Well also interesting is it's this 00:15:02.078 --> 00:15:07.759 section that the site didn't launch in 00:15:06.078 --> 00:15:10.239 December. M 00:15:07.759 --> 00:15:14.399 >> so we we ended up launching in January 00:15:10.240 --> 00:15:17.440 and uh we were at a stage with this 00:15:14.399 --> 00:15:20.720 where like we had something good like we 00:15:17.440 --> 00:15:22.800 had you know all four animations but 00:15:20.720 --> 00:15:25.680 they didn't move quite the way you know 00:15:22.799 --> 00:15:29.198 we thought would feel really smooth and 00:15:25.679 --> 00:15:31.919 really intentional and the extra detail 00:15:29.198 --> 00:15:34.479 of how they transition from one to the 00:15:31.919 --> 00:15:36.879 next just like felt a little cluji and 00:15:34.480 --> 00:15:40.320 wasn't quite as smooth as it could 00:15:36.879 --> 00:15:42.958 And it was a decision, you know, a group 00:15:40.320 --> 00:15:46.000 decision that we should wait and we 00:15:42.958 --> 00:15:47.919 should do it right. We could have, well, 00:15:46.000 --> 00:15:49.839 let's just only do three or let's just 00:15:47.919 --> 00:15:52.879 only do one or maybe you don't make the 00:15:49.839 --> 00:15:54.320 move. Um, and you know, for sure what we 00:15:52.879 --> 00:15:55.838 don't want to get in the habit of is 00:15:54.320 --> 00:15:57.920 just like pushing timelines out to the 00:15:55.839 --> 00:16:02.240 end of time. But this was a decision 00:15:57.919 --> 00:16:04.958 that it was worth it to get it done well 00:16:02.240 --> 00:16:07.120 and make it actually a kind of joyful 00:16:04.958 --> 00:16:08.799 experience that demonstrates you know 00:16:07.120 --> 00:16:11.039 that love and care and the technical 00:16:08.799 --> 00:16:13.039 ability and you know it was over the 00:16:11.039 --> 00:16:15.039 holidays and so pushing it another week 00:16:13.039 --> 00:16:16.958 was was not going to be you know the end 00:16:15.039 --> 00:16:18.958 of the world but also a really good 00:16:16.958 --> 00:16:20.399 thing in the long run about how it feels 00:16:18.958 --> 00:16:23.679 within the overall composition. 00:16:20.399 --> 00:16:25.039 >> Yeah. Very cool. So this area is um a 00:16:23.679 --> 00:16:28.239 place where we're we're talking about 00:16:25.039 --> 00:16:31.360 our users but we created these images so 00:16:28.240 --> 00:16:34.560 it brings together Stripe the brand and 00:16:31.360 --> 00:16:37.039 the the companies that we serve. So each 00:16:34.559 --> 00:16:39.198 one of these is custommade uh and it's 00:16:37.039 --> 00:16:41.120 you know intended to express a bit of 00:16:39.198 --> 00:16:43.198 the brand that we're highlighting as 00:16:41.120 --> 00:16:44.959 well as the Stripe brand with the 00:16:43.198 --> 00:16:46.159 parallelogram. You could look at this 00:16:44.958 --> 00:16:48.479 and you could be like oh yeah great 00:16:46.159 --> 00:16:50.000 opportunity to use AI as did we. We're 00:16:48.480 --> 00:16:51.519 like great, we're gonna use AI and it's 00:16:50.000 --> 00:16:53.679 going to be awesome and we're gonna get 00:16:51.519 --> 00:16:55.360 these done in a, you know, a day. Now, 00:16:53.679 --> 00:16:58.239 of course, like the reality is, you 00:16:55.360 --> 00:17:00.560 know, building with AI is actually also, 00:16:58.240 --> 00:17:02.240 you know, something that is u it 00:17:00.559 --> 00:17:03.838 requires the love and care and attention 00:17:02.240 --> 00:17:05.838 of the makers. And so, there was 00:17:03.839 --> 00:17:07.759 definitely a process behind it. But 00:17:05.838 --> 00:17:09.838 these are really just meant to bring 00:17:07.759 --> 00:17:11.919 some interest. And you kind of again, as 00:17:09.838 --> 00:17:14.318 you're trying to express through 00:17:11.919 --> 00:17:15.439 visuals, a lot of people scroll really 00:17:14.318 --> 00:17:17.519 fast through the website, right? At 00:17:15.439 --> 00:17:19.279 least I do. I don't know about you. But 00:17:17.519 --> 00:17:20.959 when you're you're trying to get them to 00:17:19.279 --> 00:17:22.240 like take a beat almost like a song, you 00:17:20.959 --> 00:17:25.120 know, it's like what are those like key 00:17:22.240 --> 00:17:26.880 moments of punctuation and where do we 00:17:25.119 --> 00:17:28.798 want you know folks to slow down and 00:17:26.880 --> 00:17:30.240 take a note and also when are we trying 00:17:28.798 --> 00:17:32.240 to express something like you know 00:17:30.240 --> 00:17:34.160 trying to communicate uh the type of 00:17:32.240 --> 00:17:36.240 brand that we work with especially if 00:17:34.160 --> 00:17:37.600 you're you know not familiar with them. 00:17:36.240 --> 00:17:38.798 >> And now we've moved to a darker 00:17:37.599 --> 00:17:40.719 background. 00:17:38.798 --> 00:17:42.960 >> Is there something intentional behind 00:17:40.720 --> 00:17:45.600 that now? Well, this is an area that 00:17:42.960 --> 00:17:48.880 we're talking about our um integrations 00:17:45.599 --> 00:17:51.119 in the way that our APIs work. Uh and 00:17:48.880 --> 00:17:53.600 certainly there's, you know, a developer 00:17:51.119 --> 00:17:55.678 language. Uh not everything has to be in 00:17:53.599 --> 00:17:57.199 dark mode, but um it is actually 00:17:55.679 --> 00:17:58.720 something we have done in the previous 00:17:57.200 --> 00:17:59.679 site as well. And so we wanted to carry 00:17:58.720 --> 00:18:01.919 that forward. 00:17:59.679 --> 00:18:03.600 >> This is uh the area that we call squeezy 00:18:01.919 --> 00:18:06.000 boy. 00:18:03.599 --> 00:18:07.599 Uh design is definitely more fun when 00:18:06.000 --> 00:18:09.839 you can give everything a fun name. Uh 00:18:07.599 --> 00:18:11.119 but it is a an area where we're we're 00:18:09.839 --> 00:18:13.599 kind of just showing some of the things 00:18:11.119 --> 00:18:16.000 that are comingings and goings and uh so 00:18:13.599 --> 00:18:20.079 this is our Black Friday Cyber Monday uh 00:18:16.000 --> 00:18:22.240 city that we had built um our 00:18:20.079 --> 00:18:23.839 podcast Cheeky Pint. Uh so this will 00:18:22.240 --> 00:18:25.839 always be changing with different things 00:18:23.839 --> 00:18:27.279 that come through. Uh but we wanted to 00:18:25.839 --> 00:18:29.279 once again you know have a little fun 00:18:27.279 --> 00:18:32.000 with how we portray these things make it 00:18:29.279 --> 00:18:34.960 easier and um also inviting to engage 00:18:32.000 --> 00:18:36.960 with. Um certainly added more challenge 00:18:34.960 --> 00:18:39.759 to it. Like so for example how do you 00:18:36.960 --> 00:18:41.279 get an image that when it's this size is 00:18:39.759 --> 00:18:43.119 going to make sense as much as it's 00:18:41.279 --> 00:18:45.839 going to make sense when it's this size. 00:18:43.119 --> 00:18:47.599 Uh so this was tricky to to build it 00:18:45.839 --> 00:18:49.439 right. And so you know quite a bit of 00:18:47.599 --> 00:18:50.959 iteration on that but I think the team 00:18:49.440 --> 00:18:52.960 found a clever way. It's amazing seeing 00:18:50.960 --> 00:18:55.519 the finished product here and everything 00:18:52.960 --> 00:18:57.120 is so polished and and put together, but 00:18:55.519 --> 00:18:58.960 I think it's really easy to miss all the 00:18:57.119 --> 00:19:01.038 work and the iteration and the process 00:18:58.960 --> 00:19:02.640 that goes on behind the scenes there. I 00:19:01.038 --> 00:19:04.079 would love for you to take us through 00:19:02.640 --> 00:19:05.919 show your work on all these different 00:19:04.079 --> 00:19:07.279 sections and all the iterations that you 00:19:05.919 --> 00:19:07.840 went through to ultimately end up at 00:19:07.279 --> 00:19:09.359 this point. 00:19:07.839 --> 00:19:11.918 >> Well, okay, we're starting here on the 00:19:09.359 --> 00:19:14.079 top where we have this wave. Uh I've 00:19:11.919 --> 00:19:16.080 worked at Stripe now for five years and 00:19:14.079 --> 00:19:19.038 I cannot even tell you how many 00:19:16.079 --> 00:19:21.199 different variants of a wave or gradient 00:19:19.038 --> 00:19:23.839 or gradient wave that I have seen and 00:19:21.200 --> 00:19:26.880 been a part of. Um I think we are trying 00:19:23.839 --> 00:19:30.879 to find every possible solution on this 00:19:26.880 --> 00:19:33.760 project. You know we knew we wanted to 00:19:30.880 --> 00:19:36.480 bring a lot of kind of color and joy to 00:19:33.759 --> 00:19:39.279 the experience and we knew that a a wave 00:19:36.480 --> 00:19:41.519 or gradient wave like we had before is a 00:19:39.279 --> 00:19:44.079 a key way to do that. and we enjoy that 00:19:41.519 --> 00:19:45.519 part of the brand, but which wave, how 00:19:44.079 --> 00:19:47.199 to do it, what's going to stand the test 00:19:45.519 --> 00:19:49.839 of time, what could be on there for six 00:19:47.200 --> 00:19:52.480 years potentially, uh, and, you know, 00:19:49.839 --> 00:19:55.199 give you a, you know, a bit of joy when 00:19:52.480 --> 00:19:58.400 you visit, but not overdo it. And what's 00:19:55.200 --> 00:20:01.360 super cool is that our wonderful team 00:19:58.400 --> 00:20:03.919 created this tool where we can 00:20:01.359 --> 00:20:04.879 experiment and get the right waves, 00:20:03.919 --> 00:20:07.360 >> the perfect wave. 00:20:04.880 --> 00:20:09.280 >> Exactly. So, you could just like tweak, 00:20:07.359 --> 00:20:11.359 do I want that much blur? No, not that 00:20:09.279 --> 00:20:13.359 much. Do I want a more grain? No, not 00:20:11.359 --> 00:20:15.678 that much. Let's see. We want to also 00:20:13.359 --> 00:20:18.639 switch it on the scale. Do how do we 00:20:15.679 --> 00:20:20.720 want it rotated? How thick do we want? 00:20:18.640 --> 00:20:22.640 How much texture do we want? You know, 00:20:20.720 --> 00:20:24.558 the reality is is all of those factors 00:20:22.640 --> 00:20:26.080 matter so much. Like what exactly is the 00:20:24.558 --> 00:20:27.279 color? Like that's a little like that 00:20:26.079 --> 00:20:28.720 yellow isn't right. Right. That's not 00:20:27.279 --> 00:20:30.879 the what we ended up with. Like we want 00:20:28.720 --> 00:20:32.319 to find just the right color mix, just 00:20:30.880 --> 00:20:34.960 the right texture, just the right amount 00:20:32.319 --> 00:20:37.359 of movement. And having a tool like this 00:20:34.960 --> 00:20:39.279 was essential to make that happen. And 00:20:37.359 --> 00:20:41.599 then you know we first get it right and 00:20:39.279 --> 00:20:43.440 like okay we see how it is here and then 00:20:41.599 --> 00:20:44.798 becomes the building process like how do 00:20:43.440 --> 00:20:46.960 we actually build it so it's also 00:20:44.798 --> 00:20:48.000 performant and is going to you know 00:20:46.960 --> 00:20:50.159 operate 00:20:48.000 --> 00:20:51.599 >> really smoothly on anybody's computer 00:20:50.159 --> 00:20:53.440 >> and and I noticed some buttons here it 00:20:51.599 --> 00:20:55.359 looks like you can save the state 00:20:53.440 --> 00:20:56.798 >> so do you create different variations of 00:20:55.359 --> 00:20:58.158 these and then kind of test them against 00:20:56.798 --> 00:20:58.639 each what was the process even of using 00:20:58.159 --> 00:21:00.880 this tool 00:20:58.640 --> 00:21:03.038 >> yeah before we even got in that tool we 00:21:00.880 --> 00:21:04.880 were even just trying to get centered on 00:21:03.038 --> 00:21:06.879 well what is it that we're actually 00:21:04.880 --> 00:21:08.240 trying to achieve with the wave what are 00:21:06.880 --> 00:21:09.919 talking about here like well how vibrant 00:21:08.240 --> 00:21:11.839 do we want to be or do we want like 00:21:09.919 --> 00:21:14.000 prefer it muted like some of these were 00:21:11.839 --> 00:21:16.798 really interesting but is that the right 00:21:14.000 --> 00:21:18.880 feel for the page or not? Um you know 00:21:16.798 --> 00:21:21.918 there this is one of our previous waves 00:21:18.880 --> 00:21:24.640 from one of our event sites uh which was 00:21:21.919 --> 00:21:26.400 monochromatic but also really bold or do 00:21:24.640 --> 00:21:28.799 we want to be a little bit more uh 00:21:26.400 --> 00:21:31.038 diverse and more rainbow like? And so we 00:21:28.798 --> 00:21:32.798 looked at each of these kinds of ways of 00:21:31.038 --> 00:21:34.640 thinking about it and then you know 00:21:32.798 --> 00:21:37.119 essentially had discussions about like 00:21:34.640 --> 00:21:40.559 well is it flat or is it an object with 00:21:37.119 --> 00:21:43.038 a form and these great discussions help 00:21:40.558 --> 00:21:45.038 us tease out uh what we're we're 00:21:43.038 --> 00:21:47.119 actually trying to do and of course you 00:21:45.038 --> 00:21:48.558 know Patrick is was heavily involved in 00:21:47.119 --> 00:21:50.079 the site as well and so we had many 00:21:48.558 --> 00:21:52.079 discussions with him is like this this 00:21:50.079 --> 00:21:54.158 wave feel right because when you're you 00:21:52.079 --> 00:21:55.599 know creating a new homepage it's almost 00:21:54.159 --> 00:21:56.720 like yeah you're deciding what you know 00:21:55.599 --> 00:21:58.639 clothes you're going to wear for the 00:21:56.720 --> 00:22:01.279 next many years. M it's a big decision. 00:21:58.640 --> 00:22:03.038 >> It's amazing seeing um the literally 00:22:01.279 --> 00:22:04.240 infinite variations that you could come 00:22:03.038 --> 00:22:06.000 up with here. 00:22:04.240 --> 00:22:08.319 >> I imagine that makes it harder to just 00:22:06.000 --> 00:22:12.319 make a final call. What is that process? 00:22:08.319 --> 00:22:13.678 Who who decides and and um you know how 00:22:12.319 --> 00:22:16.158 do you decide like this is the one that 00:22:13.679 --> 00:22:17.200 we're going with and and move on from 00:22:16.159 --> 00:22:18.480 this because you could probably spend 00:22:17.200 --> 00:22:21.200 forever debating. 00:22:18.480 --> 00:22:23.120 >> Oh, it's very very true. Uh usually well 00:22:21.200 --> 00:22:24.720 for something like this Patrick was 00:22:23.119 --> 00:22:27.439 definitely a part of the decision-making 00:22:24.720 --> 00:22:30.720 process and so usually you know with the 00:22:27.440 --> 00:22:34.159 team we will look at quite a large range 00:22:30.720 --> 00:22:36.240 then we will down select to you know a 00:22:34.159 --> 00:22:37.440 subset of those and say like okay these 00:22:36.240 --> 00:22:38.480 are the ones that we're comfortable with 00:22:37.440 --> 00:22:40.080 like we don't want to put in front of 00:22:38.480 --> 00:22:41.279 Patrick ones that we're like definitely 00:22:40.079 --> 00:22:42.720 not comfortable with or wouldn't 00:22:41.279 --> 00:22:44.480 recommend. Although it's it's always 00:22:42.720 --> 00:22:46.400 helpful to show kind of like the process 00:22:44.480 --> 00:22:49.038 and what we did explore. But then we 00:22:46.400 --> 00:22:50.640 look at the ones that are likely a very 00:22:49.038 --> 00:22:52.400 good fit and then we'll have a 00:22:50.640 --> 00:22:54.000 conversation about what you know feels 00:22:52.400 --> 00:22:56.960 right for him. And luckily, you know, 00:22:54.000 --> 00:22:59.119 he's also exceptionally decisive and has 00:22:56.960 --> 00:23:00.400 very good taste. And so we usually can 00:22:59.119 --> 00:23:01.918 use that as a conversation of like, 00:23:00.400 --> 00:23:03.280 okay, this one feels right. But I'll 00:23:01.919 --> 00:23:04.799 also admit, I mean, this is one of the 00:23:03.279 --> 00:23:06.480 blessings and the curse of the design 00:23:04.798 --> 00:23:09.279 process is that something that could 00:23:06.480 --> 00:23:11.440 feel great here on or on a board or in 00:23:09.279 --> 00:23:12.960 isolation, um, all of a sudden feels 00:23:11.440 --> 00:23:14.960 very different when you actually put it 00:23:12.960 --> 00:23:16.640 in place and you feel it. that you feel 00:23:14.960 --> 00:23:18.400 it with the rest of the typography and 00:23:16.640 --> 00:23:20.080 the the logos on there and the various 00:23:18.400 --> 00:23:22.080 other things and also just like sit with 00:23:20.079 --> 00:23:23.839 it for some time. Uh so we definitely 00:23:22.079 --> 00:23:26.079 evolved it over time. Something that may 00:23:23.839 --> 00:23:28.639 have felt right at one point um starts 00:23:26.079 --> 00:23:29.759 to feel, you know, just like it it it 00:23:28.640 --> 00:23:30.799 isn't going to stand the test of time 00:23:29.759 --> 00:23:32.798 and then we want to change it. 00:23:30.798 --> 00:23:34.639 >> Yeah. So, at what point in the process 00:23:32.798 --> 00:23:36.798 do you go from looking at a bunch of 00:23:34.640 --> 00:23:38.640 different variations on this like flat 00:23:36.798 --> 00:23:41.119 to an object with a form or quiet to 00:23:38.640 --> 00:23:43.280 turbulent and then actually get it coded 00:23:41.119 --> 00:23:44.798 up and working live in the page so that 00:23:43.279 --> 00:23:45.599 you can get a sense of what it actually 00:23:44.798 --> 00:23:47.279 feels like live. 00:23:45.599 --> 00:23:49.519 >> I mean, I would say the goal is as 00:23:47.279 --> 00:23:51.519 quickly as possible to get it into state 00:23:49.519 --> 00:23:52.639 that would be like the way a user would 00:23:51.519 --> 00:23:54.480 experience it. 00:23:52.640 --> 00:23:56.559 >> Uh because it is really hard to judge 00:23:54.480 --> 00:23:58.960 anything in isolation in a way that 00:23:56.558 --> 00:24:00.158 isn't like the user would be. you're you 00:23:58.960 --> 00:24:01.360 that's what you're trying to do is just 00:24:00.159 --> 00:24:02.880 like put yourself in their shoes and 00:24:01.359 --> 00:24:04.558 then see what that would feel like. 00:24:02.880 --> 00:24:06.240 Sometimes we're just we're not there 00:24:04.558 --> 00:24:08.879 yet. Like it could take some time to 00:24:06.240 --> 00:24:10.400 code it up. Uh and so we want to you 00:24:08.880 --> 00:24:12.080 know start to down select just so we 00:24:10.400 --> 00:24:14.000 know like should we code you know the 00:24:12.079 --> 00:24:16.558 these five versions or you know these 00:24:14.000 --> 00:24:18.319 five versions. And so we would start 00:24:16.558 --> 00:24:20.079 perhaps with something that's more of 00:24:18.319 --> 00:24:21.678 just like a static visual and just get a 00:24:20.079 --> 00:24:24.079 sense okay we want to go over here over 00:24:21.679 --> 00:24:26.559 there. But that's where that tool comes 00:24:24.079 --> 00:24:28.639 in hand because this allows us to 00:24:26.558 --> 00:24:30.319 essentially, you know, get many versions 00:24:28.640 --> 00:24:31.120 at once, right? And so we can play with 00:24:30.319 --> 00:24:32.319 them together. 00:24:31.119 --> 00:24:34.319 >> Yeah. And one of the other things that 00:24:32.319 --> 00:24:36.639 you might not get to experience um just 00:24:34.319 --> 00:24:38.399 playing with it in frames is it it comes 00:24:36.640 --> 00:24:39.600 behind the text there. And so you have 00:24:38.400 --> 00:24:41.278 to change the text color and make sure 00:24:39.599 --> 00:24:42.798 that the text is readable and and not 00:24:41.278 --> 00:24:44.000 distracting and and it interacts with 00:24:42.798 --> 00:24:45.440 all these other elements on the page 00:24:44.000 --> 00:24:45.919 that are really important, too. 00:24:45.440 --> 00:24:47.600 >> Right. 00:24:45.919 --> 00:24:48.880 >> You talked about a few different uh 00:24:47.599 --> 00:24:49.199 bento variations. 00:24:48.880 --> 00:24:50.880 >> Oh, yeah. 00:24:49.200 --> 00:24:52.400 >> I'm curious to see some more of those. 00:24:50.880 --> 00:24:53.760 >> Yeah. So, this is the bento where we're 00:24:52.400 --> 00:24:55.360 trying to communicate a lot of different 00:24:53.759 --> 00:24:58.240 things that we do. 00:24:55.359 --> 00:25:01.119 >> Uh, and what what's the right way to to 00:24:58.240 --> 00:25:02.480 communicate this? We looked at a ton of 00:25:01.119 --> 00:25:04.798 different things. And so, what we're 00:25:02.480 --> 00:25:07.759 trying to figure out is, you know, if 00:25:04.798 --> 00:25:11.200 you're what kind of user are you? Are 00:25:07.759 --> 00:25:13.519 you a uh micro entrepreneur with a small 00:25:11.200 --> 00:25:15.840 business or are you a large enterprise? 00:25:13.519 --> 00:25:17.759 Are you interested in billing or are you 00:25:15.839 --> 00:25:19.199 interested in connect these things? Do 00:25:17.759 --> 00:25:21.440 we want to show you them all in one 00:25:19.200 --> 00:25:23.200 screen? this might be an approach so we 00:25:21.440 --> 00:25:25.440 can get there faster because of course 00:25:23.200 --> 00:25:27.840 on any website the more you scroll down 00:25:25.440 --> 00:25:29.440 the less users get there, right? Uh so 00:25:27.839 --> 00:25:30.959 what if we just squished it all in? 00:25:29.440 --> 00:25:32.240 Well, that's a lot. It's pretty type 00:25:30.960 --> 00:25:34.079 heavy. We're not doing a whole lot of 00:25:32.240 --> 00:25:36.558 showing versus telling. 00:25:34.079 --> 00:25:38.079 >> Uh we looked at uh these kinds of 00:25:36.558 --> 00:25:40.399 sections. This is a little bit more 00:25:38.079 --> 00:25:42.158 similar to our original site that I 00:25:40.400 --> 00:25:44.400 showed you where you just kind of like 00:25:42.159 --> 00:25:47.039 pass through section by section. This 00:25:44.400 --> 00:25:48.640 felt like a little too scrolly telling, 00:25:47.038 --> 00:25:49.839 right? and you're just like kind of you 00:25:48.640 --> 00:25:51.278 want to get to it and you want to get to 00:25:49.839 --> 00:25:53.839 it faster and you want to be able to get 00:25:51.278 --> 00:25:56.400 a a quicker sense of what we offer. Uh 00:25:53.839 --> 00:25:58.319 then we have here a essentially an 00:25:56.400 --> 00:25:59.919 accordion so you could press these 00:25:58.319 --> 00:26:01.918 things to then open them up and see what 00:25:59.919 --> 00:26:05.759 we have. Uh this one we actually did 00:26:01.919 --> 00:26:10.080 take to user research and unsurprisingly 00:26:05.759 --> 00:26:12.640 it was not a quick way for people to 00:26:10.079 --> 00:26:14.879 really digest a lot at once because it 00:26:12.640 --> 00:26:16.960 requires effort. you know what even if 00:26:14.880 --> 00:26:19.120 it's not a lot of effort, right? But you 00:26:16.960 --> 00:26:21.519 um you want somebody to tap on it or you 00:26:19.119 --> 00:26:22.959 want them to scroll over it. Uh and you 00:26:21.519 --> 00:26:24.480 know, otherwise you're you're in trying 00:26:22.960 --> 00:26:26.798 to introduce something to them like 00:26:24.480 --> 00:26:28.400 manage a marketplace end to end. Like 00:26:26.798 --> 00:26:28.798 you might know what that means, but you 00:26:28.400 --> 00:26:30.000 might not. 00:26:28.798 --> 00:26:31.679 >> Would you would you be interested enough 00:26:30.000 --> 00:26:32.640 to click through and most people just 00:26:31.679 --> 00:26:34.960 don't click tabs? 00:26:32.640 --> 00:26:36.559 >> Yeah, exactly. So that's why, you know, 00:26:34.960 --> 00:26:39.278 again, this didn't feel right and a more 00:26:36.558 --> 00:26:41.359 visual one um was definitely a better 00:26:39.278 --> 00:26:43.119 choice. Uh but there's a lot of 00:26:41.359 --> 00:26:45.839 different variants here in the way that 00:26:43.119 --> 00:26:47.918 we explored how to communicate this. And 00:26:45.839 --> 00:26:49.759 then again, you know, it just we have to 00:26:47.919 --> 00:26:51.520 remember that when people are coming to 00:26:49.759 --> 00:26:53.278 this site, they're in a more of a lean 00:26:51.519 --> 00:26:55.119 back mode. They're in more of a browse 00:26:53.278 --> 00:26:57.919 mode. So the idea that you're going to 00:26:55.119 --> 00:27:00.000 put your most important messages a click 00:26:57.919 --> 00:27:02.480 away, it's going to be tough. And so 00:27:00.000 --> 00:27:03.839 that's where the bento kind of won at 00:27:02.480 --> 00:27:06.640 the end of the day because it was just 00:27:03.839 --> 00:27:08.240 so much more visual um and I would say 00:27:06.640 --> 00:27:09.440 kinder to the users because it meant 00:27:08.240 --> 00:27:10.159 that they could be in that lean back 00:27:09.440 --> 00:27:12.640 position. 00:27:10.159 --> 00:27:15.919 >> Talk a little bit about the process and 00:27:12.640 --> 00:27:17.278 maybe how you used AI in building this. 00:27:15.919 --> 00:27:18.960 >> Well, so yeah, let's start with the 00:27:17.278 --> 00:27:20.720 images that but there's other parts of 00:27:18.960 --> 00:27:23.038 the process there. But these were 00:27:20.720 --> 00:27:25.519 certainly a type of thing that lend 00:27:23.038 --> 00:27:27.679 themselves to AI. I think AI is really 00:27:25.519 --> 00:27:30.558 good at these pictures that seem, you 00:27:27.679 --> 00:27:32.798 know, super real. Uh, and so this is 00:27:30.558 --> 00:27:35.440 kind of what we're going for. Now, it 00:27:32.798 --> 00:27:37.759 seems like it would be pretty simple to 00:27:35.440 --> 00:27:39.679 ask a, you know, an AI like, you know, 00:27:37.759 --> 00:27:41.440 free pick or whatever of like, you know, 00:27:39.679 --> 00:27:44.080 give me a parallelogram inside this 00:27:41.440 --> 00:27:46.320 thing. But the reality is, you know, the 00:27:44.079 --> 00:27:48.879 nuance of the details really mattered to 00:27:46.319 --> 00:27:51.519 us. Like, you couldn't just put uh 00:27:48.880 --> 00:27:53.679 something that sort of got there. Uh, it 00:27:51.519 --> 00:27:55.839 had to feel like it was, you know, at 00:27:53.679 --> 00:27:57.278 the same level of love and care as these 00:27:55.839 --> 00:28:00.079 other things. What was really kind of 00:27:57.278 --> 00:28:01.599 funny was the process here. Uh because 00:28:00.079 --> 00:28:03.519 you know, one wouldn't have thought that 00:28:01.599 --> 00:28:05.839 bubbles would have taken so much of our 00:28:03.519 --> 00:28:07.359 attention, but they sure did. Uh so here 00:28:05.839 --> 00:28:09.038 was a version that we had for a 00:28:07.359 --> 00:28:11.599 different user that is uh not depicted 00:28:09.038 --> 00:28:14.158 on the site just right now. Um and you 00:28:11.599 --> 00:28:15.678 can kind of see like, okay, yeah, it's 00:28:14.159 --> 00:28:16.880 an ice cube and the bubbles and you 00:28:15.679 --> 00:28:17.360 know, generally what do you think? Looks 00:28:16.880 --> 00:28:18.000 looks okay. 00:28:17.359 --> 00:28:18.558 >> Yeah, 00:28:18.000 --> 00:28:19.359 >> looks real. 00:28:18.558 --> 00:28:22.720 >> Yeah, ship it. 00:28:19.359 --> 00:28:25.038 >> Well, this is the team's uh thoughts on 00:28:22.720 --> 00:28:27.679 the matter. And so each one of these 00:28:25.038 --> 00:28:29.599 things is actually a critique of, you 00:28:27.679 --> 00:28:30.640 know, where it just doesn't feel quite 00:28:29.599 --> 00:28:35.599 real, right? 00:28:30.640 --> 00:28:38.480 >> The example um from uh urban um or URBN 00:28:35.599 --> 00:28:41.678 is the um you know, how well does this 00:28:38.480 --> 00:28:43.759 all feel like the right urban uh layout 00:28:41.679 --> 00:28:46.720 now gets a lot of it right, but when you 00:28:43.759 --> 00:28:48.480 take a double look, um her arm isn't 00:28:46.720 --> 00:28:50.880 quite right. He doesn't quite have a 00:28:48.480 --> 00:28:53.278 hand. Um you know, that shadow isn't 00:28:50.880 --> 00:28:56.080 exactly how it would be. uh and so the 00:28:53.278 --> 00:28:58.880 the detail in each of these little 00:28:56.079 --> 00:29:01.359 nuances like each pixel basically needs 00:28:58.880 --> 00:29:03.278 the same uh amount of attention. So I 00:29:01.359 --> 00:29:05.278 think what AI is helping us do is it's 00:29:03.278 --> 00:29:08.079 helping us speed up our process and 00:29:05.278 --> 00:29:10.720 certainly helping us explore more. We 00:29:08.079 --> 00:29:12.079 can look at you know 20 ideas in the 00:29:10.720 --> 00:29:15.120 time it normally would have taken to 00:29:12.079 --> 00:29:17.278 look at two. However, the it doesn't 00:29:15.119 --> 00:29:19.119 replace craft. It doesn't replace taste. 00:29:17.278 --> 00:29:20.960 it doesn't replace, you know, the 00:29:19.119 --> 00:29:22.158 attention to detail to ensure that 00:29:20.960 --> 00:29:24.640 you're getting each of those things 00:29:22.159 --> 00:29:27.440 right. Um, we're really excited about 00:29:24.640 --> 00:29:29.120 how it's sped up prototyping and sped 00:29:27.440 --> 00:29:30.640 up, you know, experimentation. So, it's 00:29:29.119 --> 00:29:32.158 like, how should these accordionss move? 00:29:30.640 --> 00:29:34.159 Should it replace this or should it push 00:29:32.159 --> 00:29:36.640 that? Uh, we can mock that up really 00:29:34.159 --> 00:29:39.278 fast and then saves engineers countless 00:29:36.640 --> 00:29:41.278 time hours and and designers as well as 00:29:39.278 --> 00:29:43.759 they're exploring different varieties. 00:29:41.278 --> 00:29:45.679 It's also really great for user testing. 00:29:43.759 --> 00:29:48.079 Um, if we want to be able to change all 00:29:45.679 --> 00:29:50.000 the words in here, uh, so that it feels 00:29:48.079 --> 00:29:52.639 one way for one user that we're talking 00:29:50.000 --> 00:29:54.720 to versus another, we can do that really 00:29:52.640 --> 00:29:56.880 easily with AI prototyping. I would say 00:29:54.720 --> 00:29:58.960 even during that time period, you know, 00:29:56.880 --> 00:30:01.600 what we were exploring is, you know, 00:29:58.960 --> 00:30:02.720 feels oldfashioned a year ago versus uh, 00:30:01.599 --> 00:30:04.398 how we explore today. 00:30:02.720 --> 00:30:06.558 >> How about uh, like the role of 00:30:04.398 --> 00:30:09.359 designers? You know, it's it seems like 00:30:06.558 --> 00:30:10.480 it's not just um, pushing pixels in 00:30:09.359 --> 00:30:12.879 frames in Figma. 00:30:10.480 --> 00:30:14.558 >> Yeah. talk about what the designers on 00:30:12.880 --> 00:30:16.320 your team are doing and and the role 00:30:14.558 --> 00:30:17.038 that they played in uh in actually 00:30:16.319 --> 00:30:19.359 building this 00:30:17.038 --> 00:30:21.519 >> what designers at Stripe endeavor to do 00:30:19.359 --> 00:30:23.599 or to create things that feel like they 00:30:21.519 --> 00:30:25.359 push the status quo forward. That kind 00:30:23.599 --> 00:30:27.038 of all harks back right to the idea of 00:30:25.359 --> 00:30:28.959 like what what is the global progress 00:30:27.038 --> 00:30:30.558 that we can provide and we want to do 00:30:28.960 --> 00:30:32.558 that via design as well. We want to 00:30:30.558 --> 00:30:35.678 create things that are exceedingly easy 00:30:32.558 --> 00:30:37.440 to use that are also really really 00:30:35.679 --> 00:30:38.720 powerful and that can help people solve 00:30:37.440 --> 00:30:40.000 problems or help them build their 00:30:38.720 --> 00:30:42.000 business or help them accomplish what 00:30:40.000 --> 00:30:43.919 they're trying to do but do so in a way 00:30:42.000 --> 00:30:45.679 that actually just brings a little joy 00:30:43.919 --> 00:30:47.278 to the day too. You know, because 00:30:45.679 --> 00:30:49.440 frankly that's part of progress as well 00:30:47.278 --> 00:30:50.880 is that like a beautiful world is 00:30:49.440 --> 00:30:53.200 definitely a better world. I want to 00:30:50.880 --> 00:30:55.600 live in that one. And so designers are 00:30:53.200 --> 00:30:57.919 trying to create things that are going 00:30:55.599 --> 00:30:59.839 to be really intentional for our users 00:30:57.919 --> 00:31:01.520 but also do so that's you know in a 00:30:59.839 --> 00:31:04.319 creative and thoughtful and 00:31:01.519 --> 00:31:07.038 differentiated way and I would say the 00:31:04.319 --> 00:31:09.439 tools that we're using are allowing for 00:31:07.038 --> 00:31:11.278 that now hopefully better and faster you 00:31:09.440 --> 00:31:14.159 know as we talked about earlier is that 00:31:11.278 --> 00:31:16.398 you know I think AI can you know give us 00:31:14.159 --> 00:31:18.559 opportunity to keep the base like to 00:31:16.398 --> 00:31:20.158 raise the floor essentially to create 00:31:18.558 --> 00:31:22.480 baseline products maybe that like the 00:31:20.159 --> 00:31:24.640 seven out of 10 really quickly, really 00:31:22.480 --> 00:31:26.558 easily. But then what do you do with 00:31:24.640 --> 00:31:28.240 that extra found time? Do you just like 00:31:26.558 --> 00:31:30.639 ship that and just like, you know, ship 00:31:28.240 --> 00:31:33.200 more sevens out of tens? Like, boy, I 00:31:30.640 --> 00:31:34.799 hope not. Uh, what instead we want to do 00:31:33.200 --> 00:31:37.120 is, you know, get the things that are 00:31:34.798 --> 00:31:39.278 just like, okay, that's a very typical 00:31:37.119 --> 00:31:41.278 modal to, you know, accept somebody's 00:31:39.278 --> 00:31:42.558 email address to sign them up. Like 00:31:41.278 --> 00:31:44.159 maybe you don't need to reinvent the 00:31:42.558 --> 00:31:45.918 wheel there. Like as long as that is 00:31:44.159 --> 00:31:48.159 like a really good version of that, then 00:31:45.919 --> 00:31:49.840 we're good. But now, can we spend the 00:31:48.159 --> 00:31:51.519 time to think about new paradigms of 00:31:49.839 --> 00:31:53.359 interaction? Like for example, people 00:31:51.519 --> 00:31:55.839 are using agents to build their 00:31:53.359 --> 00:31:57.278 businesses now. Um they're using agents 00:31:55.839 --> 00:31:59.278 to basically do everything under the 00:31:57.278 --> 00:32:01.119 sun. So what is your agent experience? 00:31:59.278 --> 00:32:03.519 How good is that? What is the the 00:32:01.119 --> 00:32:05.278 users's experience going to be like when 00:32:03.519 --> 00:32:07.200 they are traversing, you know, the 00:32:05.278 --> 00:32:08.798 internet or their tools in that way? And 00:32:07.200 --> 00:32:10.640 so that's where I would say designers 00:32:08.798 --> 00:32:12.879 are putting more time now is thinking 00:32:10.640 --> 00:32:14.799 about those new paradigms of interaction 00:32:12.880 --> 00:32:17.039 and trying to think about like what does 00:32:14.798 --> 00:32:19.200 great experience or user experience or 00:32:17.038 --> 00:32:20.960 agent experience look like for tomorrow. 00:32:19.200 --> 00:32:22.798 We have incredible new tools that are 00:32:20.960 --> 00:32:24.319 available for everybody. And one of the 00:32:22.798 --> 00:32:26.879 trends obviously that that we've been 00:32:24.319 --> 00:32:29.519 seeing a lot of is everybody within a 00:32:26.880 --> 00:32:33.278 company now having the ability to ship 00:32:29.519 --> 00:32:35.200 code and improve products and update the 00:32:33.278 --> 00:32:36.880 website and you know the core product 00:32:35.200 --> 00:32:39.120 that customers are using which I think 00:32:36.880 --> 00:32:40.880 is really powerful and one of the 00:32:39.119 --> 00:32:42.000 questions that I think that that comes 00:32:40.880 --> 00:32:44.240 out of that 00:32:42.000 --> 00:32:46.558 >> um especially from a design perspective 00:32:44.240 --> 00:32:49.359 is how do you keep it so there's this 00:32:46.558 --> 00:32:51.519 cohesive design language and it stays to 00:32:49.359 --> 00:32:52.959 the bar that you is so important to you 00:32:51.519 --> 00:32:55.759 and 00:32:52.960 --> 00:32:58.000 without being directly in the flow of 00:32:55.759 --> 00:32:59.519 how new code gets written and shipped 00:32:58.000 --> 00:33:02.398 and going live on the site. 00:32:59.519 --> 00:33:04.079 >> Yeah, I really interested to see and be 00:33:02.398 --> 00:33:06.558 a part of the evolution of design 00:33:04.079 --> 00:33:08.879 systems in this way because design 00:33:06.558 --> 00:33:12.319 systems have always been a way to help a 00:33:08.880 --> 00:33:14.880 team scale. So as a organization grows 00:33:12.319 --> 00:33:16.480 and you can no longer just know what the 00:33:14.880 --> 00:33:17.919 right thing is because you know there's 00:33:16.480 --> 00:33:19.120 10 of you seated around the table and 00:33:17.919 --> 00:33:21.278 you're all just talking about every 00:33:19.119 --> 00:33:24.158 single thing you do. when you scale like 00:33:21.278 --> 00:33:26.000 it helps the organization make decisions 00:33:24.159 --> 00:33:29.440 together and ensure that there's con 00:33:26.000 --> 00:33:32.240 coherency in the user's experience with 00:33:29.440 --> 00:33:35.840 AI tools I think that we're going to see 00:33:32.240 --> 00:33:38.880 a whole new wave where these systems are 00:33:35.839 --> 00:33:41.918 you know kind of managed by the AI tools 00:33:38.880 --> 00:33:44.240 and that can help us scale things a lot 00:33:41.919 --> 00:33:46.559 more quickly and so for example as I 00:33:44.240 --> 00:33:49.278 mentioned I you know drew a sketch of 00:33:46.558 --> 00:33:52.000 what I wanted to see built and then I 00:33:49.278 --> 00:33:54.079 put that in the AI tool and then it uses 00:33:52.000 --> 00:33:55.919 the components from our design system to 00:33:54.079 --> 00:33:58.158 piece that together for me and get a 00:33:55.919 --> 00:34:00.320 like the the rough version. Then I want 00:33:58.159 --> 00:34:01.679 to, you know, push it here and there and 00:34:00.319 --> 00:34:03.439 actually, you know what, that component 00:34:01.679 --> 00:34:05.278 isn't really fit to purpose for what I'm 00:34:03.440 --> 00:34:06.798 trying to do here. So this is where 00:34:05.278 --> 00:34:09.039 we're going to need to push from that 00:34:06.798 --> 00:34:11.838 and so then can the AI tool help me 00:34:09.039 --> 00:34:13.918 actually expand the design system and 00:34:11.838 --> 00:34:16.078 actually help to grow it for the use 00:34:13.918 --> 00:34:18.000 cases that we need. And so I think 00:34:16.079 --> 00:34:20.960 there's a lot that is going to be 00:34:18.000 --> 00:34:23.358 facilitated in terms of bringing more 00:34:20.960 --> 00:34:25.358 high quality things at that like 00:34:23.358 --> 00:34:27.440 baseline. But honestly, I mean, this is 00:34:25.358 --> 00:34:29.759 what people have to choose to do because 00:34:27.440 --> 00:34:31.440 sometimes it's so easy when you put it 00:34:29.760 --> 00:34:33.040 in the, you know, the AI tool and it 00:34:31.440 --> 00:34:34.878 spits back a thing and you're like, "Oh, 00:34:33.039 --> 00:34:36.719 that that was fast and that was easy and 00:34:34.878 --> 00:34:38.319 that's pretty good." And you will like 00:34:36.719 --> 00:34:40.319 you can feel it in yourself just being 00:34:38.320 --> 00:34:43.359 like, "Yeah, I guess that's enough." But 00:34:40.320 --> 00:34:46.159 like the reality is like don't be wooed 00:34:43.358 --> 00:34:48.319 by you know just how easy that was to 00:34:46.159 --> 00:34:50.800 achieve but instead ask yourself like 00:34:48.320 --> 00:34:52.800 but is this really is this really great? 00:34:50.800 --> 00:34:53.919 Is this like have I really hit the mark? 00:34:52.800 --> 00:34:56.240 Is this really going to achieve the 00:34:53.918 --> 00:34:57.519 goal? is really going to feel like it's 00:34:56.239 --> 00:34:59.598 wellcraftrafted and put, you know, 00:34:57.519 --> 00:35:00.880 intentionality behind it. And then, you 00:34:59.599 --> 00:35:02.880 know, sometimes that takes, you know, 00:35:00.880 --> 00:35:04.480 another rev and another turn. And, you 00:35:02.880 --> 00:35:06.559 know, the the way that, you know, our 00:35:04.480 --> 00:35:08.079 tools today can allow you to kind of go 00:35:06.559 --> 00:35:10.078 back and like, no, tweak this little bit 00:35:08.079 --> 00:35:12.000 and tweak that little bit. Uh, and 00:35:10.079 --> 00:35:14.640 essentially the merging of design and 00:35:12.000 --> 00:35:16.960 edge tools and one allows you a lot more 00:35:14.639 --> 00:35:19.519 ability to kind of customize that. So, 00:35:16.960 --> 00:35:21.280 you don't need to accept slop and you 00:35:19.519 --> 00:35:23.599 shouldn't accept slop. you should you 00:35:21.280 --> 00:35:24.560 know hunt for fight for the right 00:35:23.599 --> 00:35:26.160 solution. 00:35:24.559 --> 00:35:28.239 >> What are some more principles like that 00:35:26.159 --> 00:35:30.480 that you try to instill in your team? I 00:35:28.239 --> 00:35:32.639 mean, I think I think a part of it is, 00:35:30.480 --> 00:35:33.760 you know, the reality is, and I think we 00:35:32.639 --> 00:35:35.759 may have even talked about this last 00:35:33.760 --> 00:35:38.720 time we talked, like the gravitational 00:35:35.760 --> 00:35:43.119 pull is to mediocrity. Like, it is just 00:35:38.719 --> 00:35:45.439 so easy to accept good enough. 00:35:43.119 --> 00:35:46.800 >> And I think it really really takes 00:35:45.440 --> 00:35:49.039 intentionality and you really have to 00:35:46.800 --> 00:35:52.480 think about like what is the cost of 00:35:49.039 --> 00:35:53.759 accepting good enough. And I think in 00:35:52.480 --> 00:35:55.039 that one decision, you're just like, 00:35:53.760 --> 00:35:56.480 well, it's just fine. Like it's just 00:35:55.039 --> 00:35:58.480 like ship it like it, you know, it 00:35:56.480 --> 00:36:01.039 achieves it. like you know I really you 00:35:58.480 --> 00:36:02.880 know we we've got too much to do and you 00:36:01.039 --> 00:36:04.239 know is it like that data viz thing we 00:36:02.880 --> 00:36:05.760 were talking about before like it's it's 00:36:04.239 --> 00:36:06.959 pretty good you know we got like 00:36:05.760 --> 00:36:08.400 wouldn't it be great to like get the 00:36:06.960 --> 00:36:09.920 team on something else and you you like 00:36:08.400 --> 00:36:11.519 weigh all these other costs and you 00:36:09.920 --> 00:36:13.280 think about it and you end up making a 00:36:11.519 --> 00:36:15.358 decision to go for good enough 00:36:13.280 --> 00:36:18.640 >> but think about if you made that good 00:36:15.358 --> 00:36:21.199 enough decision every day all day every 00:36:18.639 --> 00:36:22.799 day and then think about how many 00:36:21.199 --> 00:36:25.279 companies do that right like how many 00:36:22.800 --> 00:36:27.599 companies really stand out to us as like 00:36:25.280 --> 00:36:29.920 exquisite and exceptional and that like 00:36:27.599 --> 00:36:32.400 really hold that bar up that it reminds 00:36:29.920 --> 00:36:35.680 you of just like how hard it is to fight 00:36:32.400 --> 00:36:37.119 that fight of like well I if I let this 00:36:35.679 --> 00:36:38.319 slide you know what else am I going to 00:36:37.119 --> 00:36:40.559 let slide and what is that like 00:36:38.320 --> 00:36:42.640 composite going to be and then I think a 00:36:40.559 --> 00:36:44.639 lot of people make decisions based on 00:36:42.639 --> 00:36:46.000 well you know the team put so much 00:36:44.639 --> 00:36:47.838 effort in like I'm going to you know 00:36:46.000 --> 00:36:49.599 upset the team if I don't go forward 00:36:47.838 --> 00:36:51.679 it's like well how happy is the team 00:36:49.599 --> 00:36:53.280 going to be if the product is just meh 00:36:51.679 --> 00:36:55.279 fight the gravitational pull to 00:36:53.280 --> 00:36:56.240 mediocrity and do not leave well enough 00:36:55.280 --> 00:36:57.760 alone Mhm. 00:36:56.239 --> 00:36:59.679 >> And really look for the thing that's 00:36:57.760 --> 00:37:01.520 going to make a difference. I think the 00:36:59.679 --> 00:37:03.598 other thing that we talk a lot about 00:37:01.519 --> 00:37:05.679 internally and I think is really 00:37:03.599 --> 00:37:07.838 important for folks to consider when 00:37:05.679 --> 00:37:11.759 they're building products and 00:37:07.838 --> 00:37:13.039 experiences is what is the user going to 00:37:11.760 --> 00:37:14.560 experience at the end of the day. You 00:37:13.039 --> 00:37:16.159 know, we get a little too caught up in 00:37:14.559 --> 00:37:19.519 our own world. We're too comfortable 00:37:16.159 --> 00:37:22.239 with it. And so what I would always say 00:37:19.519 --> 00:37:25.759 is just like realize it the way a user 00:37:22.239 --> 00:37:27.679 would. prototyping, not presenting. 00:37:25.760 --> 00:37:29.359 Don't try to communicate to, you know, 00:37:27.679 --> 00:37:31.440 the stakeholder of like, well, this is 00:37:29.358 --> 00:37:33.199 why we did this and this is, you know, 00:37:31.440 --> 00:37:34.800 the trade-off that we fought against and 00:37:33.199 --> 00:37:36.480 this and that. It's just like if you're 00:37:34.800 --> 00:37:38.560 there to talk about whether or not this 00:37:36.480 --> 00:37:39.838 is the right solution or not, then you 00:37:38.559 --> 00:37:40.880 should be asking of like, well, how is 00:37:39.838 --> 00:37:42.159 this going to feel at the end of the day 00:37:40.880 --> 00:37:44.640 for the person that's going to be 00:37:42.159 --> 00:37:46.639 experiencing this? And, you know, does 00:37:44.639 --> 00:37:49.279 that feel good? Without all of that 00:37:46.639 --> 00:37:52.000 knowledge, do I think that part is is 00:37:49.280 --> 00:37:54.640 the right one? um that makes a big big 00:37:52.000 --> 00:37:57.519 difference. Um I would also say when 00:37:54.639 --> 00:37:59.920 we're exploring different products and 00:37:57.519 --> 00:38:02.559 like what are you know what is actually 00:37:59.920 --> 00:38:04.639 shipworthy or not you think about like 00:38:02.559 --> 00:38:06.719 what the trade-offs are of like is this 00:38:04.639 --> 00:38:09.679 going to negatively impact somebody's 00:38:06.719 --> 00:38:11.679 day? Is this going to be something that 00:38:09.679 --> 00:38:13.039 erodess trust if you don't get this 00:38:11.679 --> 00:38:15.118 right? Is this going to make it to the 00:38:13.039 --> 00:38:17.039 front page of the news? Like what what 00:38:15.119 --> 00:38:19.200 are the tradeoffs when you're making a 00:38:17.039 --> 00:38:21.679 decision? And I guess like a lot of the 00:38:19.199 --> 00:38:23.919 things that I'm talking about here are 00:38:21.679 --> 00:38:26.239 the things that sound like I'm looking 00:38:23.920 --> 00:38:28.960 for perfection. And I think that's also 00:38:26.239 --> 00:38:31.519 a dangerous pursuit because of course 00:38:28.960 --> 00:38:33.039 like your product is only as good as 00:38:31.519 --> 00:38:34.559 what's actually out there, what's 00:38:33.039 --> 00:38:35.679 shipped. It's not what we've been 00:38:34.559 --> 00:38:36.880 thinking about. It's not what we've been 00:38:35.679 --> 00:38:38.239 talking about. It's not our intention 00:38:36.880 --> 00:38:40.000 and what we're pursuing. It's what's 00:38:38.239 --> 00:38:41.919 actually available to the people that 00:38:40.000 --> 00:38:44.880 are you're you're serving. 00:38:41.920 --> 00:38:47.039 >> And I think progress is probably more 00:38:44.880 --> 00:38:49.039 important than perfection in that case. 00:38:47.039 --> 00:38:51.358 And a lot of times it's not out there 00:38:49.039 --> 00:38:52.480 until you actually can learn and 00:38:51.358 --> 00:38:55.039 understand whether or not it's 00:38:52.480 --> 00:38:57.280 effective, especially with AI tools and 00:38:55.039 --> 00:38:59.599 the way that you know you you really 00:38:57.280 --> 00:39:01.440 don't know how people are going to use 00:38:59.599 --> 00:39:03.200 it and how it's going to respond and how 00:39:01.440 --> 00:39:05.760 they're going to evolve with it until 00:39:03.199 --> 00:39:07.679 you can bring it actually to market. And 00:39:05.760 --> 00:39:10.079 so I think you have to have a kind of a 00:39:07.679 --> 00:39:12.319 rubric in place about what are, you 00:39:10.079 --> 00:39:14.320 know, the essential pieces to a 00:39:12.320 --> 00:39:17.039 successful product. I wouldn't call it 00:39:14.320 --> 00:39:20.160 an MVP. It's probably like an MVQP, like 00:39:17.039 --> 00:39:21.599 a minimum viable quality product. Uh 00:39:20.159 --> 00:39:23.519 because again, you don't want to lose 00:39:21.599 --> 00:39:25.599 trust by experimenting with something 00:39:23.519 --> 00:39:27.280 out in the world. Uh but you certainly 00:39:25.599 --> 00:39:28.480 want to learn from their experiences. 00:39:27.280 --> 00:39:30.720 >> It feels like something that's becoming 00:39:28.480 --> 00:39:32.880 even more important these days um with 00:39:30.719 --> 00:39:33.199 all the advancements in AI is QA. 00:39:32.880 --> 00:39:35.039 >> Yeah. 00:39:33.199 --> 00:39:36.639 >> And testing. And you know, you talk 00:39:35.039 --> 00:39:38.079 about having the voice of the user and 00:39:36.639 --> 00:39:40.639 the perspective of the user in your head 00:39:38.079 --> 00:39:42.400 as you're designing. Um, and part of 00:39:40.639 --> 00:39:44.480 what you do at Stripe, which you told us 00:39:42.400 --> 00:39:44.880 about last time, is uh, walking the 00:39:44.480 --> 00:39:45.440 store. 00:39:44.880 --> 00:39:47.920 >> Oh, yeah. 00:39:45.440 --> 00:39:49.760 >> And, um, and you actually go in and you 00:39:47.920 --> 00:39:51.920 test all of the products yourselves and 00:39:49.760 --> 00:39:53.839 you do that as part of a company culture 00:39:51.920 --> 00:39:55.760 and a requirement that everybody does. 00:39:53.838 --> 00:39:57.519 Everyone is expected to do that. Um, 00:39:55.760 --> 00:39:59.760 which I think is really important. How 00:39:57.519 --> 00:40:01.679 has that changed more recently? Um, 00:39:59.760 --> 00:40:03.280 either within Stripe or certainly with 00:40:01.679 --> 00:40:05.598 all the changes with AI that have been 00:40:03.280 --> 00:40:07.760 happening. Walking the store is such an 00:40:05.599 --> 00:40:10.079 important part of building products and 00:40:07.760 --> 00:40:10.800 experiences because again it like at the 00:40:10.079 --> 00:40:12.000 end of the day you're trying to 00:40:10.800 --> 00:40:13.519 understand what the user is going 00:40:12.000 --> 00:40:15.199 through. And when you're building 00:40:13.519 --> 00:40:16.639 something, it's so easy to be like, "Oh 00:40:15.199 --> 00:40:18.078 yeah, we're in our product. We're in it 00:40:16.639 --> 00:40:20.078 all day. I'm thinking about my product 00:40:18.079 --> 00:40:22.320 all day." But what you're thinking about 00:40:20.079 --> 00:40:24.480 is, you know, that next feature that you 00:40:22.320 --> 00:40:27.039 launch and it's really easy to lose 00:40:24.480 --> 00:40:30.159 sight of what's actually out there. It's 00:40:27.039 --> 00:40:31.440 kind of funny like how you can create 00:40:30.159 --> 00:40:33.199 something. you're like, "Oh, when I 00:40:31.440 --> 00:40:35.519 shipped it, we did all these bug bashes 00:40:33.199 --> 00:40:37.118 and it was great." But then you use it 00:40:35.519 --> 00:40:39.199 and maybe you use it a month later, 00:40:37.119 --> 00:40:41.440 maybe you use it, you know, two, six 00:40:39.199 --> 00:40:43.199 months later, and it's evolved. It's 00:40:41.440 --> 00:40:44.720 changed. And the reason why is because 00:40:43.199 --> 00:40:46.639 probably somebody else shipped something 00:40:44.719 --> 00:40:48.719 and somebody else shipped something and 00:40:46.639 --> 00:40:51.039 now it's like, you know, it's in your 00:40:48.719 --> 00:40:52.319 home when you've updated the dining 00:40:51.039 --> 00:40:53.599 room, but none of the other rooms and 00:40:52.320 --> 00:40:55.280 all of a sudden the light switches don't 00:40:53.599 --> 00:40:57.359 match and the colors are off and every 00:40:55.280 --> 00:40:59.359 other room now looks bad. You have to 00:40:57.358 --> 00:41:01.358 think about how that composite works 00:40:59.358 --> 00:41:03.679 together. And you know for Stripe for 00:41:01.358 --> 00:41:06.078 example, we have a number of different 00:41:03.679 --> 00:41:07.598 business areas, right? We have our money 00:41:06.079 --> 00:41:09.519 movement business, we have our revenue 00:41:07.599 --> 00:41:12.079 business, we have our payments business. 00:41:09.519 --> 00:41:14.719 And these organizations need to focus 00:41:12.079 --> 00:41:16.240 and they need to stay true to their 00:41:14.719 --> 00:41:18.480 mission and what they're trying to get 00:41:16.239 --> 00:41:21.039 done. But if they don't think about how 00:41:18.480 --> 00:41:24.079 their product intersects with each 00:41:21.039 --> 00:41:26.159 others and how a user might go from, 00:41:24.079 --> 00:41:28.720 well, I use subscriptions and I use 00:41:26.159 --> 00:41:30.480 payments and I use tax. how are these 00:41:28.719 --> 00:41:32.078 things all going to work together? Then 00:41:30.480 --> 00:41:34.400 they're really missing the user 00:41:32.079 --> 00:41:36.720 experience. And so walking the store 00:41:34.400 --> 00:41:38.240 helps people see kind of the forest 00:41:36.719 --> 00:41:39.358 through the trees and see how all these 00:41:38.239 --> 00:41:42.239 things connect. 00:41:39.358 --> 00:41:44.318 >> And yes, we do basically it's like a 00:41:42.239 --> 00:41:47.279 part of the culture that everybody does 00:41:44.318 --> 00:41:48.559 this. Uh we do have a program that we 00:41:47.280 --> 00:41:51.040 talked about last time, essential 00:41:48.559 --> 00:41:53.599 journeys where we have a a subset of 00:41:51.039 --> 00:41:56.079 these journeys um kind of like on a 00:41:53.599 --> 00:41:58.318 scoreboard and like are they you know 00:41:56.079 --> 00:42:00.400 red, yellow, green, how good are they? 00:41:58.318 --> 00:42:02.719 But everybody should be exploring the 00:42:00.400 --> 00:42:04.639 store different parts imagining 00:42:02.719 --> 00:42:06.318 themselves as different types of users 00:42:04.639 --> 00:42:08.639 experiencing different sides of it and 00:42:06.318 --> 00:42:11.279 trying to find the the dead ends. We 00:42:08.639 --> 00:42:13.279 also do this every Friday where the 00:42:11.280 --> 00:42:15.599 founders do it in front of the whole 00:42:13.280 --> 00:42:17.839 company where they're walking the store. 00:42:15.599 --> 00:42:20.160 One to just instill how important this 00:42:17.838 --> 00:42:22.318 is and kind of raise awareness and also 00:42:20.159 --> 00:42:24.879 to help people think about how do you 00:42:22.318 --> 00:42:27.599 see not everybody has the same attention 00:42:24.880 --> 00:42:29.440 to different types of details. And so I 00:42:27.599 --> 00:42:31.280 might see something that you might not 00:42:29.440 --> 00:42:33.358 because of my discipline or my 00:42:31.280 --> 00:42:34.800 disposition or you know that the user 00:42:33.358 --> 00:42:36.400 that I talked to earlier that week and 00:42:34.800 --> 00:42:38.079 so the thing that I'm interested in. And 00:42:36.400 --> 00:42:40.079 so when we do these things together, we 00:42:38.079 --> 00:42:42.480 see the value that different points of 00:42:40.079 --> 00:42:44.000 view bring. So I really love to walk the 00:42:42.480 --> 00:42:45.838 store with like an engineer in the room 00:42:44.000 --> 00:42:47.119 and a product leader in a room and a 00:42:45.838 --> 00:42:48.960 data science in the room because we're 00:42:47.119 --> 00:42:50.160 all looking at it very differently and 00:42:48.960 --> 00:42:52.318 we're all going to point out different 00:42:50.159 --> 00:42:54.000 things and that is what like gets us 00:42:52.318 --> 00:42:55.119 closer to really actually understanding 00:42:54.000 --> 00:42:57.280 what a user might feel. 00:42:55.119 --> 00:42:59.200 >> Well Katie, this has been incredible. 00:42:57.280 --> 00:43:01.760 Thank you so much for coming and um I 00:42:59.199 --> 00:43:03.358 feel like it's so rare to get an honest 00:43:01.760 --> 00:43:04.800 peak behind the scenes and showing the 00:43:03.358 --> 00:43:06.719 process and all the steps that you had 00:43:04.800 --> 00:43:07.680 along the way. So, uh, really appreciate 00:43:06.719 --> 00:43:09.759 you sharing that with us. 00:43:07.679 --> 00:43:11.279 >> It was a lot of fun. I'm always happy to 00:43:09.760 --> 00:43:13.200 talk about behind the scenes. I think 00:43:11.280 --> 00:43:14.960 the blood, sweat, and tears and the 00:43:13.199 --> 00:43:16.960 effort that goes into it is something 00:43:14.960 --> 00:43:18.559 that's a part of the work, but is often 00:43:16.960 --> 00:43:19.920 not talked about. I love hearing it from 00:43:18.559 --> 00:43:21.119 other designers, and I'm always happy to 00:43:19.920 --> 00:43:21.599 talk about it myself. Thanks for having 00:43:21.119 --> 00:43:23.680 me on. 00:43:21.599 --> 00:43:25.440 >> Awesome. That does it for another design 00:43:23.679 --> 00:43:29.399 review. Thank you for joining us, and 00:43:25.440 --> 00:43:29.400 we'll see you on the next episode.