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Today, I am thrilled to welcome Stripe's

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head of design, Katie Dill, back to the

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show. Katie and her team recently

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launched a brand new Stripe homepage.

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She's going to take us behind the scenes

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of the new website and talk about how AI

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is changing her team's design process.

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Welcome to another episode of Design

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Review.

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>> Katie, thank you so much for joining us

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again.

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>> Well, thank you for having me. It's nice

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to be back.

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>> I saw along with everybody else when you

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launched the new Stripe homepage and I

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thought it would be amazing to have you

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on and kind of take us through the old

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site and uh things that you wanted to

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change about it and update cuz I know

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it's been a few years since you launched

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that one and then take us through the

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new one and talk a little bit about the

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process that you used in order to get to

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uh where you guys landed with the new

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one.

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>> I do enjoy a good design crit with you.

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So, let's do it.

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>> All right, let's jump into uh the

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original site. So, how long ago did you

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launch this one? This one was from 2020.

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>> Okay. So, we're talking six years ago at

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this point.

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>> Yeah. Kudos to the team. I wasn't there

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at the time, but I do think that they

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built something that stood the test of

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time quite well.

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>> Uh we weren't, you know, oh my gosh, we

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have to change it. It's been too long.

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It's just, you know, it doesn't work

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anymore. It actually was standing up

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quite well. And when we endeavored to

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change it, it was because the business

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had just evolved beyond the point of

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what this story was was being told on

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this site. And I'll explain that in a

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little bit. Of course, we wanted to kind

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of freshen it up as a part of our brand

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that also had been evolving and becoming

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more sophisticated and reaching, you

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know, a broader set of users. Uh, but

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still it was it was a good site. So, I

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can point out a couple of things that we

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uh aimed to change.

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>> Yeah.

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>> Uh, so one, you know, this evolved over

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time. We certainly had changed the words

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on the site and exactly how it was

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portraying what we do. Um, and then also

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some of the the product shots that we

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were including. Um and then of course

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our users as we you know continue to

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evolve and um help more in different

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categories or larger enterprises or uh

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growing startups. But then as you go

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down the page we were articulating the

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number of things that we do and this is

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actually one of the things that had

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evolved the most over the last couple of

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years because our product suite was

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evolving. And so for example we started

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with payments being a main part of our

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business but over time uh payments is

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just one part of it. We now today serve

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you in multi- uh national enterprises in

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many categories including helping them

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with subscriptions, helping AI companies

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with usage based billing, tax revenue

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recognition platforms like Shopify and

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helping them move money for the

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businesses in their um on their

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platform. And so these stories were

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coming through here, but you were kind

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of only getting a glimpse of the product

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offering that Stripe provided. And so

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this was probably the biggest thing that

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we realized that we needed to change. So

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we needed to adjust that. And the other

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piece is that, you know, the page grows

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quite long. There's a lot of trying to

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be told here. uh we were doing that

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thing that happens over time where you

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kind of add on and add on and we're kind

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of losing the the narrative uh with the

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site and so we thought to think about

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ways that we could uh update that

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narrative. Now of course you could

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adjust that what was here but we

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realized that it was also time to

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refresh the visuals. uh it I don't think

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that the you know the visuals came out

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of fashion but it also just didn't feel

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like it took the sophistication of how

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the business itself evolved. Uh and we

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were seeing it honestly in the way that

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our teams were kind of rolling out this

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design language. There wasn't a lot of

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clarity on how do we use this 12 degree

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bar, how do we use colors and overlays?

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Um how do we use our typography? Um the

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gradient wave that's at the top was

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certainly an element but it didn't

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really scale well. So, we had to create

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a new design vision for our language and

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then update the story.

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>> It's interesting because you mentioned

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that visually I look at this and this

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looks like a site that could have been

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launched yesterday. Um, and I think

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that's a testament to how Stripe has

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always been so far ahead of the game

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>> from a design perspective that you could

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have a site that's 6 years old and

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obviously you you made updates to it

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over the years. This wasn't literally

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the site that you launched six years

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ago, right? But um clearly it has stood

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the test of time which is really

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impressive and it makes sense that

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you've got all these different customers

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now. It seems like the approach that you

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took with the old one was just keep

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adding sections that would target

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different types of users and hopefully

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people would scroll until they hit the

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one that's right for them. And it sounds

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like maybe you've rethought that for the

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new site that you launched.

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>> Yeah, I mean like perfect example, you

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know, AI is very big part of our

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business. It's both like how we build

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what we build and who we build for. like

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over 78% of the Forbes AI 50 use Stripe

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and they are using our products to help

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them scale really fast and help them

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monetize in new ways right so usage

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based billing so that you can uh make

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the right moves for your inferences

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costs and how your users are actually

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using your product and it's a tile on

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the website

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>> so the story was missing like what we're

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actually building wasn't coming clear

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and so when we realized okay now it's

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time to update our site I would say

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there's a couple of things on that front

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which is one like first principles what

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are we trying to do here like what is

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the point of a website anyways I

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remember being in a meeting where

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Patrick asked like well what is the

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point of a website I think one part of

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it is it's

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>> it's your manifesto whether you

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explicitly call it that or not

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>> because you're demonstrating who you are

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what you are doing and why you do it and

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in some indirect ways right it's just

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like the nature of the way that you

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build your site how you present yourself

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what colors you choose what typography

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you choose the details that you choose

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to care and the ones you don't and then

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of course how you articulate what you're

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doing and what you offer. So we set out

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to make sure that the story was

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extremely clear for who we're serving

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and how we're serving them and what we

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care about. And so that's where, you

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know, honestly painstaking hours over a

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year or more is what, you know, ended up

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going into this. Partly because in some

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ways we weren't rushing to get something

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out like when we're ser when we're

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building something for our users, it's

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like, okay, it needs to be out like it

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needs to be out tomorrow because they're

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dependent on this. This was like it was

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for ourselves in a lot of ways. And so

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we certainly could take the time to

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sniff out the right design and, you

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know, get on that scent. Um, and you

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know what? There were many weeks and

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months of design exploration where we

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liked it, but we're like, "No, that's

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not it." Yeah, we're not ready to, you

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know, wear that shirt for the next six

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years or whatever it might be.

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>> And so, it's financial infrastructure to

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grow your revenue as the first one,

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>> which is the exact same for a sentence.

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So, that has remained consistent and it

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seems like what you wanted to add here

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was the extra things here that would

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catch other people.

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>> Yeah.

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>> That where Strike would actually be the

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right product for them, too.

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>> Yeah. One of the things that's

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interesting is I like looking at sites

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and trying to figure out what is

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something that only this company could

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do that nobody else could do. And one of

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the things that stands out to me is the

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GDP counter that you have here. It's not

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many companies that could um that could

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have a live counter of the percentage of

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the global GDP, not even just US GDP

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that is running on Stripe. Talk about

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the decision to put that right up at the

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top as well. Well, I would imagine a lot

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of, you know, people watching and people

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building websites are thinking about,

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well, how can we demonstrate the the

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impact that we're having, the the reason

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why you should trust us, the social

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proof, you know, what users trust us

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before. Uh, these are important

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messages. They they help the, you know,

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the the potential customer understand

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like whether or not this is a brand that

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you could trust and okay, good to know

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that you've done it for others. As I

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expressed earlier, like we're, you know,

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trying to help everybody from a micro

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entrepreneur who's going to grow a

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startup to hopefully great success as

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well as these large enterprises. It

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matters a lot to them whether or not

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that Stripe is dependable, reliable,

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trustworthy, and can operate at their

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scale.

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>> So, we ask ourselves, well, how do we

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express that? How do we help you see

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that we can? Of course, one of the ways

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is that we tell you about the users that

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use us, and you can see that scrolling

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across the bottom. But another way is

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like you know the actual enormous impact

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that we have had the the privilege and

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the responsibility of serving in that

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can actually be quantified in the GDP.

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>> Yeah. I love that. And the other key

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word here too is billionth. You know

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like that just signals if you do

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billions of transactions stripe is right

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for you.

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>> Yeah. YC companies.

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>> Yeah.

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>> You got this.

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>> Yeah. Yeah. Very cool. Okay. Take us

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through uh the other sections that you

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you put underneath that.

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>> Yeah. All right. So this next section is

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what we call our bento. And so this is

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probably the big area that's seeking to

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solve some of the problems I talked

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about earlier about really expressing

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kind of like the scale of the product

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offering. And so before you saw like

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okay we do issuing we do payments. Uh

271
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but here we're trying to depict a little

272
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bit more of the solution set. And so

273
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payments yes we do payments we do online

274
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payments we also do terminal. Uh billing

275
00:09:05,600 --> 00:09:09,600
is you know what we were talking about

276
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earlier about usage based billing or um

277
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you know could be fixed fee

278
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subscriptions any number of these types

279
00:09:12,639 --> 00:09:17,600
of things are a lot more adjustable and

280
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um customizable to the businesses we're

281
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serving. uh we talked a little bit about

282
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the the role that AI plays in the

283
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organizations and so we wanted to make

284
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that clear our issuing product stable

285
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coins and then of course the way that we

286
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uh provide for platform businesses and

287
00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:37,600
marketplaces and so what we're trying to

288
00:09:34,240 --> 00:09:39,360
do here is not overwhelm you with too

289
00:09:37,600 --> 00:09:41,519
much going on I mean that I know there

290
00:09:39,360 --> 00:09:42,399
is a lot on this page but you know you

291
00:09:41,519 --> 00:09:44,879
can see that

292
00:09:42,399 --> 00:09:46,799
>> there's a very little text we're just

293
00:09:44,879 --> 00:09:48,639
trying to get the point across to give

294
00:09:46,799 --> 00:09:50,719
you enough of a sense of like, okay,

295
00:09:48,639 --> 00:09:53,120
this may be for me. And then what we're

296
00:09:50,720 --> 00:09:55,600
really trying to do is show rather than

297
00:09:53,120 --> 00:09:57,839
tell. So, hence the imagery. And then

298
00:09:55,600 --> 00:10:00,639
the quick way that you can gain more

299
00:09:57,839 --> 00:10:02,480
insight is we do this kind of overlay,

300
00:10:00,639 --> 00:10:04,399
this larger modal, so you don't actually

301
00:10:02,480 --> 00:10:05,600
have to go off your course. You're not

302
00:10:04,399 --> 00:10:07,278
we're not taking you away from the

303
00:10:05,600 --> 00:10:08,720
homepage yet, but we can give you a

304
00:10:07,278 --> 00:10:11,200
little bit more of a sense of what this

305
00:10:08,720 --> 00:10:12,480
is all about. There's many products

306
00:10:11,200 --> 00:10:14,959
layered into this, right? Like, you

307
00:10:12,480 --> 00:10:17,680
know, we on that bento, it's 1, two,

308
00:10:14,958 --> 00:10:20,239
three, four, five, six. But that's, you

309
00:10:17,679 --> 00:10:23,359
know, I think we have many, many more

310
00:10:20,240 --> 00:10:25,200
dozen products on top of that that we

311
00:10:23,360 --> 00:10:26,240
can't express all on one page. That

312
00:10:25,200 --> 00:10:28,320
would just be too much and would

313
00:10:26,240 --> 00:10:30,159
overwhelm you. So, we want to give you

314
00:10:28,320 --> 00:10:31,920
essentially progressive disclosure as a

315
00:10:30,159 --> 00:10:33,360
way of of getting towards the more

316
00:10:31,919 --> 00:10:34,078
details behind the products and more

317
00:10:33,360 --> 00:10:35,278
things that we offer.

318
00:10:34,078 --> 00:10:37,120
>> Yeah, that's very cool. I don't know

319
00:10:35,278 --> 00:10:38,799
that I've seen this specific design with

320
00:10:37,120 --> 00:10:40,480
the bento box and the modals that you

321
00:10:38,799 --> 00:10:42,000
can pop up that give more information

322
00:10:40,480 --> 00:10:44,079
directly on the page. It's an

323
00:10:42,000 --> 00:10:46,320
interesting smart choice because rather

324
00:10:44,078 --> 00:10:47,759
than take people to a dedicated page,

325
00:10:46,320 --> 00:10:50,160
you keep them right here. Show them what

326
00:10:47,759 --> 00:10:51,759
they want. You give buttons to to jump

327
00:10:50,159 --> 00:10:53,360
to the next section or you can keep

328
00:10:51,759 --> 00:10:54,480
scrolling down if this is not the right

329
00:10:53,360 --> 00:10:56,480
thing that you're looking for.

330
00:10:54,480 --> 00:10:59,200
>> Yeah. That that you want it to feel

331
00:10:56,480 --> 00:11:01,200
light. You want it to feel easy to kind

332
00:10:59,200 --> 00:11:03,120
of explore and engage and you're taking

333
00:11:01,200 --> 00:11:05,440
them on a journey for sure. You want to

334
00:11:03,120 --> 00:11:07,759
help them get to where they're going. Uh

335
00:11:05,440 --> 00:11:10,079
but yeah, I think if we leapt people off

336
00:11:07,759 --> 00:11:11,278
the page, you know, when it might be too

337
00:11:10,078 --> 00:11:13,120
early for them to have made their

338
00:11:11,278 --> 00:11:15,039
decision on what they're actually going

339
00:11:13,120 --> 00:11:17,120
after. Uh so this is really just a bit

340
00:11:15,039 --> 00:11:19,278
more of a browse experience and it's a

341
00:11:17,120 --> 00:11:19,759
gives them a bit more of a a chance to

342
00:11:19,278 --> 00:11:22,159
explore.

343
00:11:19,759 --> 00:11:24,399
>> YC Starter School is back. We're hand

344
00:11:22,159 --> 00:11:26,159
selecting the most promising builders in

345
00:11:24,399 --> 00:11:29,440
the world and flying them out to San

346
00:11:26,159 --> 00:11:31,679
Francisco for July 25th and 26th to

347
00:11:29,440 --> 00:11:34,160
discuss the cutting edge of tech. Apply

348
00:11:31,679 --> 00:11:35,439
now for a spot. Okay, back to the video.

349
00:11:34,159 --> 00:11:36,639
Yeah, it's interesting. Another thing

350
00:11:35,440 --> 00:11:38,800
that stands out to me is how much

351
00:11:36,639 --> 00:11:40,639
animation you use um in each of these

352
00:11:38,799 --> 00:11:42,719
cards. Talk a little about about that

353
00:11:40,639 --> 00:11:44,799
and and how you can do it without making

354
00:11:42,720 --> 00:11:45,440
it too overwhelming or distracting for

355
00:11:44,799 --> 00:11:47,359
people.

356
00:11:45,440 --> 00:11:49,040
>> Yeah, it's a difficult balance to get. I

357
00:11:47,360 --> 00:11:51,120
mean, this is where prototyping and

358
00:11:49,039 --> 00:11:53,039
experimentation like I remember this one

359
00:11:51,120 --> 00:11:54,639
where it's like we had too many lines at

360
00:11:53,039 --> 00:11:56,319
first and then we had too few lines at

361
00:11:54,639 --> 00:11:58,559
first and the the ball was moving too

362
00:11:56,320 --> 00:12:00,399
fast. Uh so you do have to really

363
00:11:58,559 --> 00:12:01,919
fine-tune, bring it in. You know, one of

364
00:12:00,399 --> 00:12:03,600
the things as kind of pointed out

365
00:12:01,919 --> 00:12:05,759
earlier and when when you're building a

366
00:12:03,600 --> 00:12:07,278
website like this, you are either, you

367
00:12:05,759 --> 00:12:09,919
know, both directly and indirectly

368
00:12:07,278 --> 00:12:11,519
expressing your company's manifesto. So,

369
00:12:09,919 --> 00:12:14,078
one of the things that we are trying to

370
00:12:11,519 --> 00:12:15,919
express is the care that we put into the

371
00:12:14,078 --> 00:12:17,759
work that we do because if you see the

372
00:12:15,919 --> 00:12:19,360
care that goes here, then you you're

373
00:12:17,759 --> 00:12:20,958
right to assume that we also put that

374
00:12:19,360 --> 00:12:22,320
care behind the scenes in the way that

375
00:12:20,958 --> 00:12:24,799
we move money and the way that we

376
00:12:22,320 --> 00:12:27,440
protect uh a company's information.

377
00:12:24,799 --> 00:12:30,159
These are important details to express.

378
00:12:27,440 --> 00:12:32,240
It's also, you know, the idea of making

379
00:12:30,159 --> 00:12:34,159
the site feel a bit more alive.

380
00:12:32,240 --> 00:12:35,680
>> You know, that there's a presence here

381
00:12:34,159 --> 00:12:37,759
is something that I think the motion

382
00:12:35,679 --> 00:12:39,439
does really well. You were right though.

383
00:12:37,759 --> 00:12:41,120
If you go too far with it, it becomes

384
00:12:39,440 --> 00:12:42,880
distracting. It becomes annoying. Nobody

385
00:12:41,120 --> 00:12:45,278
really wants to engage with that. And

386
00:12:42,879 --> 00:12:47,120
so, it's just delicate movements and

387
00:12:45,278 --> 00:12:48,720
really just like trying to fine-tune it.

388
00:12:47,120 --> 00:12:50,959
Um, and also thinking about the role

389
00:12:48,720 --> 00:12:52,240
that when somebody engages with it,

390
00:12:50,958 --> 00:12:53,759
that's where, you know, you bring

391
00:12:52,240 --> 00:12:55,278
certain things to life and make sure

392
00:12:53,759 --> 00:12:57,120
that you're like responding and this

393
00:12:55,278 --> 00:12:58,720
gives the feedback to also register

394
00:12:57,120 --> 00:13:00,399
like, okay, I can click on this. You

395
00:12:58,720 --> 00:13:02,160
might not have known that otherwise. So,

396
00:13:00,399 --> 00:13:04,000
we try to engage in that way. This is

397
00:13:02,159 --> 00:13:05,919
where we're we're basically these are

398
00:13:04,000 --> 00:13:07,440
kind of like the the big important

399
00:13:05,919 --> 00:13:09,360
metrics that can help you understand

400
00:13:07,440 --> 00:13:11,519
again kind of the scale of what we

401
00:13:09,360 --> 00:13:13,120
build. Um, and you know, of course,

402
00:13:11,519 --> 00:13:15,440
there were versions where we could just

403
00:13:13,120 --> 00:13:18,159
put the numbers there. Uh but what we

404
00:13:15,440 --> 00:13:21,360
intended to do with this is to just add

405
00:13:18,159 --> 00:13:24,319
a little bit of interest. It is loosely

406
00:13:21,360 --> 00:13:26,560
communicating the intention of these uh

407
00:13:24,320 --> 00:13:28,240
metrics. It's not really a data viz of

408
00:13:26,559 --> 00:13:30,078
course. Uh but it gives you a sense of

409
00:13:28,240 --> 00:13:32,560
like okay here we're talking about

410
00:13:30,078 --> 00:13:34,719
global scale. Here we're talking about

411
00:13:32,559 --> 00:13:37,039
um uptime and so you kind of get the

412
00:13:34,720 --> 00:13:39,519
sense of continuity here. Um but really

413
00:13:37,039 --> 00:13:41,278
it's just fun. It's just beautiful. Um,

414
00:13:39,519 --> 00:13:42,799
and then there's, you know, it changes

415
00:13:41,278 --> 00:13:44,240
depending on what time of day, but if

416
00:13:42,799 --> 00:13:45,759
you want to go ahead and see what it

417
00:13:44,240 --> 00:13:46,879
would be like at night, you can come in

418
00:13:45,759 --> 00:13:48,559
and check it out yourself.

419
00:13:46,879 --> 00:13:50,320
>> It feels like we're entering an era now

420
00:13:48,559 --> 00:13:50,879
where websites can be fun again.

421
00:13:50,320 --> 00:13:53,519
>> Yeah,

422
00:13:50,879 --> 00:13:55,200
>> they were fun early on and then it got

423
00:13:53,519 --> 00:13:57,278
to a point where every SAS website

424
00:13:55,200 --> 00:13:58,639
looked exactly the same. And um, it's

425
00:13:57,278 --> 00:14:00,078
really cool to see you focused on things

426
00:13:58,639 --> 00:14:00,399
that are just fun for the sake of being

427
00:14:00,078 --> 00:14:03,439
fun.

428
00:14:00,399 --> 00:14:05,198
>> Yeah. I mean, I'm I'm a AI hopeful that

429
00:14:03,440 --> 00:14:07,519
the creation of these tools that can

430
00:14:05,198 --> 00:14:10,559
help us move so much faster and

431
00:14:07,519 --> 00:14:12,720
basically get to like get to good almost

432
00:14:10,559 --> 00:14:15,359
like instantaneously and almost for

433
00:14:12,720 --> 00:14:17,759
free. And now great, we can take that

434
00:14:15,360 --> 00:14:19,278
time to then push it that next level and

435
00:14:17,759 --> 00:14:22,000
to create something that is really

436
00:14:19,278 --> 00:14:22,639
interesting and playful and, you know,

437
00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:24,000
beautiful.

438
00:14:22,639 --> 00:14:25,519
>> Yeah. I think what's interesting here

439
00:14:24,000 --> 00:14:27,759
that's that's maybe worth for anybody

440
00:14:25,519 --> 00:14:29,679
watching to pay attention to is that

441
00:14:27,759 --> 00:14:31,600
these aren't animations for animation's

442
00:14:29,679 --> 00:14:33,278
sake or interactivity for interactivity

443
00:14:31,600 --> 00:14:34,560
sake. There's there's an intention and a

444
00:14:33,278 --> 00:14:36,639
purpose behind everything that you're

445
00:14:34,559 --> 00:14:38,078
doing and it's connecting to the

446
00:14:36,639 --> 00:14:39,680
specific message that you're trying to

447
00:14:38,078 --> 00:14:41,198
communicate with each of these numbers

448
00:14:39,679 --> 00:14:42,559
and it's easy to look at it and go like

449
00:14:41,198 --> 00:14:44,078
oh yeah it's just like a fun kind of

450
00:14:42,559 --> 00:14:44,719
thing and it is that but it's not

451
00:14:44,078 --> 00:14:47,278
random.

452
00:14:44,720 --> 00:14:48,959
>> Yeah. And a lot of thought goes into

453
00:14:47,278 --> 00:14:50,559
that I'm sure like talk about some of

454
00:14:48,958 --> 00:14:52,638
the different things that you explored

455
00:14:50,559 --> 00:14:54,719
or were people even against putting this

456
00:14:52,639 --> 00:14:57,278
in thinking well what value does it have

457
00:14:54,720 --> 00:14:59,199
and every inch of the screen has to have

458
00:14:57,278 --> 00:15:02,078
um you know directly measurable value.

459
00:14:59,198 --> 00:15:06,078
>> Yeah. Well also interesting is it's this

460
00:15:02,078 --> 00:15:07,759
section that the site didn't launch in

461
00:15:06,078 --> 00:15:10,239
December. M

462
00:15:07,759 --> 00:15:14,399
>> so we we ended up launching in January

463
00:15:10,240 --> 00:15:17,440
and uh we were at a stage with this

464
00:15:14,399 --> 00:15:20,720
where like we had something good like we

465
00:15:17,440 --> 00:15:22,800
had you know all four animations but

466
00:15:20,720 --> 00:15:25,680
they didn't move quite the way you know

467
00:15:22,799 --> 00:15:29,198
we thought would feel really smooth and

468
00:15:25,679 --> 00:15:31,919
really intentional and the extra detail

469
00:15:29,198 --> 00:15:34,479
of how they transition from one to the

470
00:15:31,919 --> 00:15:36,879
next just like felt a little cluji and

471
00:15:34,480 --> 00:15:40,320
wasn't quite as smooth as it could

472
00:15:36,879 --> 00:15:42,958
And it was a decision, you know, a group

473
00:15:40,320 --> 00:15:46,000
decision that we should wait and we

474
00:15:42,958 --> 00:15:47,919
should do it right. We could have, well,

475
00:15:46,000 --> 00:15:49,839
let's just only do three or let's just

476
00:15:47,919 --> 00:15:52,879
only do one or maybe you don't make the

477
00:15:49,839 --> 00:15:54,320
move. Um, and you know, for sure what we

478
00:15:52,879 --> 00:15:55,838
don't want to get in the habit of is

479
00:15:54,320 --> 00:15:57,920
just like pushing timelines out to the

480
00:15:55,839 --> 00:16:02,240
end of time. But this was a decision

481
00:15:57,919 --> 00:16:04,958
that it was worth it to get it done well

482
00:16:02,240 --> 00:16:07,120
and make it actually a kind of joyful

483
00:16:04,958 --> 00:16:08,799
experience that demonstrates you know

484
00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:11,039
that love and care and the technical

485
00:16:08,799 --> 00:16:13,039
ability and you know it was over the

486
00:16:11,039 --> 00:16:15,039
holidays and so pushing it another week

487
00:16:13,039 --> 00:16:16,958
was was not going to be you know the end

488
00:16:15,039 --> 00:16:18,958
of the world but also a really good

489
00:16:16,958 --> 00:16:20,399
thing in the long run about how it feels

490
00:16:18,958 --> 00:16:23,679
within the overall composition.

491
00:16:20,399 --> 00:16:25,039
>> Yeah. Very cool. So this area is um a

492
00:16:23,679 --> 00:16:28,239
place where we're we're talking about

493
00:16:25,039 --> 00:16:31,360
our users but we created these images so

494
00:16:28,240 --> 00:16:34,560
it brings together Stripe the brand and

495
00:16:31,360 --> 00:16:37,039
the the companies that we serve. So each

496
00:16:34,559 --> 00:16:39,198
one of these is custommade uh and it's

497
00:16:37,039 --> 00:16:41,120
you know intended to express a bit of

498
00:16:39,198 --> 00:16:43,198
the brand that we're highlighting as

499
00:16:41,120 --> 00:16:44,959
well as the Stripe brand with the

500
00:16:43,198 --> 00:16:46,159
parallelogram. You could look at this

501
00:16:44,958 --> 00:16:48,479
and you could be like oh yeah great

502
00:16:46,159 --> 00:16:50,000
opportunity to use AI as did we. We're

503
00:16:48,480 --> 00:16:51,519
like great, we're gonna use AI and it's

504
00:16:50,000 --> 00:16:53,679
going to be awesome and we're gonna get

505
00:16:51,519 --> 00:16:55,360
these done in a, you know, a day. Now,

506
00:16:53,679 --> 00:16:58,239
of course, like the reality is, you

507
00:16:55,360 --> 00:17:00,560
know, building with AI is actually also,

508
00:16:58,240 --> 00:17:02,240
you know, something that is u it

509
00:17:00,559 --> 00:17:03,838
requires the love and care and attention

510
00:17:02,240 --> 00:17:05,838
of the makers. And so, there was

511
00:17:03,839 --> 00:17:07,759
definitely a process behind it. But

512
00:17:05,838 --> 00:17:09,838
these are really just meant to bring

513
00:17:07,759 --> 00:17:11,919
some interest. And you kind of again, as

514
00:17:09,838 --> 00:17:14,318
you're trying to express through

515
00:17:11,919 --> 00:17:15,439
visuals, a lot of people scroll really

516
00:17:14,318 --> 00:17:17,519
fast through the website, right? At

517
00:17:15,439 --> 00:17:19,279
least I do. I don't know about you. But

518
00:17:17,519 --> 00:17:20,959
when you're you're trying to get them to

519
00:17:19,279 --> 00:17:22,240
like take a beat almost like a song, you

520
00:17:20,959 --> 00:17:25,120
know, it's like what are those like key

521
00:17:22,240 --> 00:17:26,880
moments of punctuation and where do we

522
00:17:25,119 --> 00:17:28,798
want you know folks to slow down and

523
00:17:26,880 --> 00:17:30,240
take a note and also when are we trying

524
00:17:28,798 --> 00:17:32,240
to express something like you know

525
00:17:30,240 --> 00:17:34,160
trying to communicate uh the type of

526
00:17:32,240 --> 00:17:36,240
brand that we work with especially if

527
00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:37,600
you're you know not familiar with them.

528
00:17:36,240 --> 00:17:38,798
>> And now we've moved to a darker

529
00:17:37,599 --> 00:17:40,719
background.

530
00:17:38,798 --> 00:17:42,960
>> Is there something intentional behind

531
00:17:40,720 --> 00:17:45,600
that now? Well, this is an area that

532
00:17:42,960 --> 00:17:48,880
we're talking about our um integrations

533
00:17:45,599 --> 00:17:51,119
in the way that our APIs work. Uh and

534
00:17:48,880 --> 00:17:53,600
certainly there's, you know, a developer

535
00:17:51,119 --> 00:17:55,678
language. Uh not everything has to be in

536
00:17:53,599 --> 00:17:57,199
dark mode, but um it is actually

537
00:17:55,679 --> 00:17:58,720
something we have done in the previous

538
00:17:57,200 --> 00:17:59,679
site as well. And so we wanted to carry

539
00:17:58,720 --> 00:18:01,919
that forward.

540
00:17:59,679 --> 00:18:03,600
>> This is uh the area that we call squeezy

541
00:18:01,919 --> 00:18:06,000
boy.

542
00:18:03,599 --> 00:18:07,599
Uh design is definitely more fun when

543
00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:09,839
you can give everything a fun name. Uh

544
00:18:07,599 --> 00:18:11,119
but it is a an area where we're we're

545
00:18:09,839 --> 00:18:13,599
kind of just showing some of the things

546
00:18:11,119 --> 00:18:16,000
that are comingings and goings and uh so

547
00:18:13,599 --> 00:18:20,079
this is our Black Friday Cyber Monday uh

548
00:18:16,000 --> 00:18:22,240
city that we had built um our

549
00:18:20,079 --> 00:18:23,839
podcast Cheeky Pint. Uh so this will

550
00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:25,839
always be changing with different things

551
00:18:23,839 --> 00:18:27,279
that come through. Uh but we wanted to

552
00:18:25,839 --> 00:18:29,279
once again you know have a little fun

553
00:18:27,279 --> 00:18:32,000
with how we portray these things make it

554
00:18:29,279 --> 00:18:34,960
easier and um also inviting to engage

555
00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:36,960
with. Um certainly added more challenge

556
00:18:34,960 --> 00:18:39,759
to it. Like so for example how do you

557
00:18:36,960 --> 00:18:41,279
get an image that when it's this size is

558
00:18:39,759 --> 00:18:43,119
going to make sense as much as it's

559
00:18:41,279 --> 00:18:45,839
going to make sense when it's this size.

560
00:18:43,119 --> 00:18:47,599
Uh so this was tricky to to build it

561
00:18:45,839 --> 00:18:49,439
right. And so you know quite a bit of

562
00:18:47,599 --> 00:18:50,959
iteration on that but I think the team

563
00:18:49,440 --> 00:18:52,960
found a clever way. It's amazing seeing

564
00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:55,519
the finished product here and everything

565
00:18:52,960 --> 00:18:57,120
is so polished and and put together, but

566
00:18:55,519 --> 00:18:58,960
I think it's really easy to miss all the

567
00:18:57,119 --> 00:19:01,038
work and the iteration and the process

568
00:18:58,960 --> 00:19:02,640
that goes on behind the scenes there. I

569
00:19:01,038 --> 00:19:04,079
would love for you to take us through

570
00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:05,919
show your work on all these different

571
00:19:04,079 --> 00:19:07,279
sections and all the iterations that you

572
00:19:05,919 --> 00:19:07,840
went through to ultimately end up at

573
00:19:07,279 --> 00:19:09,359
this point.

574
00:19:07,839 --> 00:19:11,918
>> Well, okay, we're starting here on the

575
00:19:09,359 --> 00:19:14,079
top where we have this wave. Uh I've

576
00:19:11,919 --> 00:19:16,080
worked at Stripe now for five years and

577
00:19:14,079 --> 00:19:19,038
I cannot even tell you how many

578
00:19:16,079 --> 00:19:21,199
different variants of a wave or gradient

579
00:19:19,038 --> 00:19:23,839
or gradient wave that I have seen and

580
00:19:21,200 --> 00:19:26,880
been a part of. Um I think we are trying

581
00:19:23,839 --> 00:19:30,879
to find every possible solution on this

582
00:19:26,880 --> 00:19:33,760
project. You know we knew we wanted to

583
00:19:30,880 --> 00:19:36,480
bring a lot of kind of color and joy to

584
00:19:33,759 --> 00:19:39,279
the experience and we knew that a a wave

585
00:19:36,480 --> 00:19:41,519
or gradient wave like we had before is a

586
00:19:39,279 --> 00:19:44,079
a key way to do that. and we enjoy that

587
00:19:41,519 --> 00:19:45,519
part of the brand, but which wave, how

588
00:19:44,079 --> 00:19:47,199
to do it, what's going to stand the test

589
00:19:45,519 --> 00:19:49,839
of time, what could be on there for six

590
00:19:47,200 --> 00:19:52,480
years potentially, uh, and, you know,

591
00:19:49,839 --> 00:19:55,199
give you a, you know, a bit of joy when

592
00:19:52,480 --> 00:19:58,400
you visit, but not overdo it. And what's

593
00:19:55,200 --> 00:20:01,360
super cool is that our wonderful team

594
00:19:58,400 --> 00:20:03,919
created this tool where we can

595
00:20:01,359 --> 00:20:04,879
experiment and get the right waves,

596
00:20:03,919 --> 00:20:07,360
>> the perfect wave.

597
00:20:04,880 --> 00:20:09,280
>> Exactly. So, you could just like tweak,

598
00:20:07,359 --> 00:20:11,359
do I want that much blur? No, not that

599
00:20:09,279 --> 00:20:13,359
much. Do I want a more grain? No, not

600
00:20:11,359 --> 00:20:15,678
that much. Let's see. We want to also

601
00:20:13,359 --> 00:20:18,639
switch it on the scale. Do how do we

602
00:20:15,679 --> 00:20:20,720
want it rotated? How thick do we want?

603
00:20:18,640 --> 00:20:22,640
How much texture do we want? You know,

604
00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:24,558
the reality is is all of those factors

605
00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:26,080
matter so much. Like what exactly is the

606
00:20:24,558 --> 00:20:27,279
color? Like that's a little like that

607
00:20:26,079 --> 00:20:28,720
yellow isn't right. Right. That's not

608
00:20:27,279 --> 00:20:30,879
the what we ended up with. Like we want

609
00:20:28,720 --> 00:20:32,319
to find just the right color mix, just

610
00:20:30,880 --> 00:20:34,960
the right texture, just the right amount

611
00:20:32,319 --> 00:20:37,359
of movement. And having a tool like this

612
00:20:34,960 --> 00:20:39,279
was essential to make that happen. And

613
00:20:37,359 --> 00:20:41,599
then you know we first get it right and

614
00:20:39,279 --> 00:20:43,440
like okay we see how it is here and then

615
00:20:41,599 --> 00:20:44,798
becomes the building process like how do

616
00:20:43,440 --> 00:20:46,960
we actually build it so it's also

617
00:20:44,798 --> 00:20:48,000
performant and is going to you know

618
00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:50,159
operate

619
00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:51,599
>> really smoothly on anybody's computer

620
00:20:50,159 --> 00:20:53,440
>> and and I noticed some buttons here it

621
00:20:51,599 --> 00:20:55,359
looks like you can save the state

622
00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:56,798
>> so do you create different variations of

623
00:20:55,359 --> 00:20:58,158
these and then kind of test them against

624
00:20:56,798 --> 00:20:58,639
each what was the process even of using

625
00:20:58,159 --> 00:21:00,880
this tool

626
00:20:58,640 --> 00:21:03,038
>> yeah before we even got in that tool we

627
00:21:00,880 --> 00:21:04,880
were even just trying to get centered on

628
00:21:03,038 --> 00:21:06,879
well what is it that we're actually

629
00:21:04,880 --> 00:21:08,240
trying to achieve with the wave what are

630
00:21:06,880 --> 00:21:09,919
talking about here like well how vibrant

631
00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:11,839
do we want to be or do we want like

632
00:21:09,919 --> 00:21:14,000
prefer it muted like some of these were

633
00:21:11,839 --> 00:21:16,798
really interesting but is that the right

634
00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:18,880
feel for the page or not? Um you know

635
00:21:16,798 --> 00:21:21,918
there this is one of our previous waves

636
00:21:18,880 --> 00:21:24,640
from one of our event sites uh which was

637
00:21:21,919 --> 00:21:26,400
monochromatic but also really bold or do

638
00:21:24,640 --> 00:21:28,799
we want to be a little bit more uh

639
00:21:26,400 --> 00:21:31,038
diverse and more rainbow like? And so we

640
00:21:28,798 --> 00:21:32,798
looked at each of these kinds of ways of

641
00:21:31,038 --> 00:21:34,640
thinking about it and then you know

642
00:21:32,798 --> 00:21:37,119
essentially had discussions about like

643
00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:40,559
well is it flat or is it an object with

644
00:21:37,119 --> 00:21:43,038
a form and these great discussions help

645
00:21:40,558 --> 00:21:45,038
us tease out uh what we're we're

646
00:21:43,038 --> 00:21:47,119
actually trying to do and of course you

647
00:21:45,038 --> 00:21:48,558
know Patrick is was heavily involved in

648
00:21:47,119 --> 00:21:50,079
the site as well and so we had many

649
00:21:48,558 --> 00:21:52,079
discussions with him is like this this

650
00:21:50,079 --> 00:21:54,158
wave feel right because when you're you

651
00:21:52,079 --> 00:21:55,599
know creating a new homepage it's almost

652
00:21:54,159 --> 00:21:56,720
like yeah you're deciding what you know

653
00:21:55,599 --> 00:21:58,639
clothes you're going to wear for the

654
00:21:56,720 --> 00:22:01,279
next many years. M it's a big decision.

655
00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:03,038
>> It's amazing seeing um the literally

656
00:22:01,279 --> 00:22:04,240
infinite variations that you could come

657
00:22:03,038 --> 00:22:06,000
up with here.

658
00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:08,319
>> I imagine that makes it harder to just

659
00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:12,319
make a final call. What is that process?

660
00:22:08,319 --> 00:22:13,678
Who who decides and and um you know how

661
00:22:12,319 --> 00:22:16,158
do you decide like this is the one that

662
00:22:13,679 --> 00:22:17,200
we're going with and and move on from

663
00:22:16,159 --> 00:22:18,480
this because you could probably spend

664
00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:21,200
forever debating.

665
00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:23,120
>> Oh, it's very very true. Uh usually well

666
00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:24,720
for something like this Patrick was

667
00:22:23,119 --> 00:22:27,439
definitely a part of the decision-making

668
00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:30,720
process and so usually you know with the

669
00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:34,159
team we will look at quite a large range

670
00:22:30,720 --> 00:22:36,240
then we will down select to you know a

671
00:22:34,159 --> 00:22:37,440
subset of those and say like okay these

672
00:22:36,240 --> 00:22:38,480
are the ones that we're comfortable with

673
00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:40,080
like we don't want to put in front of

674
00:22:38,480 --> 00:22:41,279
Patrick ones that we're like definitely

675
00:22:40,079 --> 00:22:42,720
not comfortable with or wouldn't

676
00:22:41,279 --> 00:22:44,480
recommend. Although it's it's always

677
00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:46,400
helpful to show kind of like the process

678
00:22:44,480 --> 00:22:49,038
and what we did explore. But then we

679
00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:50,640
look at the ones that are likely a very

680
00:22:49,038 --> 00:22:52,400
good fit and then we'll have a

681
00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:54,000
conversation about what you know feels

682
00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:56,960
right for him. And luckily, you know,

683
00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:59,119
he's also exceptionally decisive and has

684
00:22:56,960 --> 00:23:00,400
very good taste. And so we usually can

685
00:22:59,119 --> 00:23:01,918
use that as a conversation of like,

686
00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:03,280
okay, this one feels right. But I'll

687
00:23:01,919 --> 00:23:04,799
also admit, I mean, this is one of the

688
00:23:03,279 --> 00:23:06,480
blessings and the curse of the design

689
00:23:04,798 --> 00:23:09,279
process is that something that could

690
00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:11,440
feel great here on or on a board or in

691
00:23:09,279 --> 00:23:12,960
isolation, um, all of a sudden feels

692
00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:14,960
very different when you actually put it

693
00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:16,640
in place and you feel it. that you feel

694
00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:18,400
it with the rest of the typography and

695
00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:20,080
the the logos on there and the various

696
00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:22,080
other things and also just like sit with

697
00:23:20,079 --> 00:23:23,839
it for some time. Uh so we definitely

698
00:23:22,079 --> 00:23:26,079
evolved it over time. Something that may

699
00:23:23,839 --> 00:23:28,639
have felt right at one point um starts

700
00:23:26,079 --> 00:23:29,759
to feel, you know, just like it it it

701
00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:30,799
isn't going to stand the test of time

702
00:23:29,759 --> 00:23:32,798
and then we want to change it.

703
00:23:30,798 --> 00:23:34,639
>> Yeah. So, at what point in the process

704
00:23:32,798 --> 00:23:36,798
do you go from looking at a bunch of

705
00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:38,640
different variations on this like flat

706
00:23:36,798 --> 00:23:41,119
to an object with a form or quiet to

707
00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:43,280
turbulent and then actually get it coded

708
00:23:41,119 --> 00:23:44,798
up and working live in the page so that

709
00:23:43,279 --> 00:23:45,599
you can get a sense of what it actually

710
00:23:44,798 --> 00:23:47,279
feels like live.

711
00:23:45,599 --> 00:23:49,519
>> I mean, I would say the goal is as

712
00:23:47,279 --> 00:23:51,519
quickly as possible to get it into state

713
00:23:49,519 --> 00:23:52,639
that would be like the way a user would

714
00:23:51,519 --> 00:23:54,480
experience it.

715
00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:56,559
>> Uh because it is really hard to judge

716
00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:58,960
anything in isolation in a way that

717
00:23:56,558 --> 00:24:00,158
isn't like the user would be. you're you

718
00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:01,360
that's what you're trying to do is just

719
00:24:00,159 --> 00:24:02,880
like put yourself in their shoes and

720
00:24:01,359 --> 00:24:04,558
then see what that would feel like.

721
00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:06,240
Sometimes we're just we're not there

722
00:24:04,558 --> 00:24:08,879
yet. Like it could take some time to

723
00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:10,400
code it up. Uh and so we want to you

724
00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:12,080
know start to down select just so we

725
00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:14,000
know like should we code you know the

726
00:24:12,079 --> 00:24:16,558
these five versions or you know these

727
00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:18,319
five versions. And so we would start

728
00:24:16,558 --> 00:24:20,079
perhaps with something that's more of

729
00:24:18,319 --> 00:24:21,678
just like a static visual and just get a

730
00:24:20,079 --> 00:24:24,079
sense okay we want to go over here over

731
00:24:21,679 --> 00:24:26,559
there. But that's where that tool comes

732
00:24:24,079 --> 00:24:28,639
in hand because this allows us to

733
00:24:26,558 --> 00:24:30,319
essentially, you know, get many versions

734
00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:31,120
at once, right? And so we can play with

735
00:24:30,319 --> 00:24:32,319
them together.

736
00:24:31,119 --> 00:24:34,319
>> Yeah. And one of the other things that

737
00:24:32,319 --> 00:24:36,639
you might not get to experience um just

738
00:24:34,319 --> 00:24:38,399
playing with it in frames is it it comes

739
00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:39,600
behind the text there. And so you have

740
00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:41,278
to change the text color and make sure

741
00:24:39,599 --> 00:24:42,798
that the text is readable and and not

742
00:24:41,278 --> 00:24:44,000
distracting and and it interacts with

743
00:24:42,798 --> 00:24:45,440
all these other elements on the page

744
00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:45,919
that are really important, too.

745
00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:47,600
>> Right.

746
00:24:45,919 --> 00:24:48,880
>> You talked about a few different uh

747
00:24:47,599 --> 00:24:49,199
bento variations.

748
00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:50,880
>> Oh, yeah.

749
00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:52,400
>> I'm curious to see some more of those.

750
00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:53,760
>> Yeah. So, this is the bento where we're

751
00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:55,360
trying to communicate a lot of different

752
00:24:53,759 --> 00:24:58,240
things that we do.

753
00:24:55,359 --> 00:25:01,119
>> Uh, and what what's the right way to to

754
00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:02,480
communicate this? We looked at a ton of

755
00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:04,798
different things. And so, what we're

756
00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:07,759
trying to figure out is, you know, if

757
00:25:04,798 --> 00:25:11,200
you're what kind of user are you? Are

758
00:25:07,759 --> 00:25:13,519
you a uh micro entrepreneur with a small

759
00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:15,840
business or are you a large enterprise?

760
00:25:13,519 --> 00:25:17,759
Are you interested in billing or are you

761
00:25:15,839 --> 00:25:19,199
interested in connect these things? Do

762
00:25:17,759 --> 00:25:21,440
we want to show you them all in one

763
00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:23,200
screen? this might be an approach so we

764
00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:25,440
can get there faster because of course

765
00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:27,840
on any website the more you scroll down

766
00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:29,440
the less users get there, right? Uh so

767
00:25:27,839 --> 00:25:30,959
what if we just squished it all in?

768
00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:32,240
Well, that's a lot. It's pretty type

769
00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:34,079
heavy. We're not doing a whole lot of

770
00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:36,558
showing versus telling.

771
00:25:34,079 --> 00:25:38,079
>> Uh we looked at uh these kinds of

772
00:25:36,558 --> 00:25:40,399
sections. This is a little bit more

773
00:25:38,079 --> 00:25:42,158
similar to our original site that I

774
00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:44,400
showed you where you just kind of like

775
00:25:42,159 --> 00:25:47,039
pass through section by section. This

776
00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:48,640
felt like a little too scrolly telling,

777
00:25:47,038 --> 00:25:49,839
right? and you're just like kind of you

778
00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:51,278
want to get to it and you want to get to

779
00:25:49,839 --> 00:25:53,839
it faster and you want to be able to get

780
00:25:51,278 --> 00:25:56,400
a a quicker sense of what we offer. Uh

781
00:25:53,839 --> 00:25:58,319
then we have here a essentially an

782
00:25:56,400 --> 00:25:59,919
accordion so you could press these

783
00:25:58,319 --> 00:26:01,918
things to then open them up and see what

784
00:25:59,919 --> 00:26:05,759
we have. Uh this one we actually did

785
00:26:01,919 --> 00:26:10,080
take to user research and unsurprisingly

786
00:26:05,759 --> 00:26:12,640
it was not a quick way for people to

787
00:26:10,079 --> 00:26:14,879
really digest a lot at once because it

788
00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:16,960
requires effort. you know what even if

789
00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:19,120
it's not a lot of effort, right? But you

790
00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:21,519
um you want somebody to tap on it or you

791
00:26:19,119 --> 00:26:22,959
want them to scroll over it. Uh and you

792
00:26:21,519 --> 00:26:24,480
know, otherwise you're you're in trying

793
00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:26,798
to introduce something to them like

794
00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:28,400
manage a marketplace end to end. Like

795
00:26:26,798 --> 00:26:28,798
you might know what that means, but you

796
00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:30,000
might not.

797
00:26:28,798 --> 00:26:31,679
>> Would you would you be interested enough

798
00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:32,640
to click through and most people just

799
00:26:31,679 --> 00:26:34,960
don't click tabs?

800
00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:36,559
>> Yeah, exactly. So that's why, you know,

801
00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:39,278
again, this didn't feel right and a more

802
00:26:36,558 --> 00:26:41,359
visual one um was definitely a better

803
00:26:39,278 --> 00:26:43,119
choice. Uh but there's a lot of

804
00:26:41,359 --> 00:26:45,839
different variants here in the way that

805
00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:47,918
we explored how to communicate this. And

806
00:26:45,839 --> 00:26:49,759
then again, you know, it just we have to

807
00:26:47,919 --> 00:26:51,520
remember that when people are coming to

808
00:26:49,759 --> 00:26:53,278
this site, they're in a more of a lean

809
00:26:51,519 --> 00:26:55,119
back mode. They're in more of a browse

810
00:26:53,278 --> 00:26:57,919
mode. So the idea that you're going to

811
00:26:55,119 --> 00:27:00,000
put your most important messages a click

812
00:26:57,919 --> 00:27:02,480
away, it's going to be tough. And so

813
00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:03,839
that's where the bento kind of won at

814
00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:06,640
the end of the day because it was just

815
00:27:03,839 --> 00:27:08,240
so much more visual um and I would say

816
00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:09,440
kinder to the users because it meant

817
00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:10,159
that they could be in that lean back

818
00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:12,640
position.

819
00:27:10,159 --> 00:27:15,919
>> Talk a little bit about the process and

820
00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:17,278
maybe how you used AI in building this.

821
00:27:15,919 --> 00:27:18,960
>> Well, so yeah, let's start with the

822
00:27:17,278 --> 00:27:20,720
images that but there's other parts of

823
00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:23,038
the process there. But these were

824
00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:25,519
certainly a type of thing that lend

825
00:27:23,038 --> 00:27:27,679
themselves to AI. I think AI is really

826
00:27:25,519 --> 00:27:30,558
good at these pictures that seem, you

827
00:27:27,679 --> 00:27:32,798
know, super real. Uh, and so this is

828
00:27:30,558 --> 00:27:35,440
kind of what we're going for. Now, it

829
00:27:32,798 --> 00:27:37,759
seems like it would be pretty simple to

830
00:27:35,440 --> 00:27:39,679
ask a, you know, an AI like, you know,

831
00:27:37,759 --> 00:27:41,440
free pick or whatever of like, you know,

832
00:27:39,679 --> 00:27:44,080
give me a parallelogram inside this

833
00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:46,320
thing. But the reality is, you know, the

834
00:27:44,079 --> 00:27:48,879
nuance of the details really mattered to

835
00:27:46,319 --> 00:27:51,519
us. Like, you couldn't just put uh

836
00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:53,679
something that sort of got there. Uh, it

837
00:27:51,519 --> 00:27:55,839
had to feel like it was, you know, at

838
00:27:53,679 --> 00:27:57,278
the same level of love and care as these

839
00:27:55,839 --> 00:28:00,079
other things. What was really kind of

840
00:27:57,278 --> 00:28:01,599
funny was the process here. Uh because

841
00:28:00,079 --> 00:28:03,519
you know, one wouldn't have thought that

842
00:28:01,599 --> 00:28:05,839
bubbles would have taken so much of our

843
00:28:03,519 --> 00:28:07,359
attention, but they sure did. Uh so here

844
00:28:05,839 --> 00:28:09,038
was a version that we had for a

845
00:28:07,359 --> 00:28:11,599
different user that is uh not depicted

846
00:28:09,038 --> 00:28:14,158
on the site just right now. Um and you

847
00:28:11,599 --> 00:28:15,678
can kind of see like, okay, yeah, it's

848
00:28:14,159 --> 00:28:16,880
an ice cube and the bubbles and you

849
00:28:15,679 --> 00:28:17,360
know, generally what do you think? Looks

850
00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:18,000
looks okay.

851
00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:18,558
>> Yeah,

852
00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:19,359
>> looks real.

853
00:28:18,558 --> 00:28:22,720
>> Yeah, ship it.

854
00:28:19,359 --> 00:28:25,038
>> Well, this is the team's uh thoughts on

855
00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:27,679
the matter. And so each one of these

856
00:28:25,038 --> 00:28:29,599
things is actually a critique of, you

857
00:28:27,679 --> 00:28:30,640
know, where it just doesn't feel quite

858
00:28:29,599 --> 00:28:35,599
real, right?

859
00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:38,480
>> The example um from uh urban um or URBN

860
00:28:35,599 --> 00:28:41,678
is the um you know, how well does this

861
00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:43,759
all feel like the right urban uh layout

862
00:28:41,679 --> 00:28:46,720
now gets a lot of it right, but when you

863
00:28:43,759 --> 00:28:48,480
take a double look, um her arm isn't

864
00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:50,880
quite right. He doesn't quite have a

865
00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:53,278
hand. Um you know, that shadow isn't

866
00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:56,080
exactly how it would be. uh and so the

867
00:28:53,278 --> 00:28:58,880
the detail in each of these little

868
00:28:56,079 --> 00:29:01,359
nuances like each pixel basically needs

869
00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:03,278
the same uh amount of attention. So I

870
00:29:01,359 --> 00:29:05,278
think what AI is helping us do is it's

871
00:29:03,278 --> 00:29:08,079
helping us speed up our process and

872
00:29:05,278 --> 00:29:10,720
certainly helping us explore more. We

873
00:29:08,079 --> 00:29:12,079
can look at you know 20 ideas in the

874
00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:15,120
time it normally would have taken to

875
00:29:12,079 --> 00:29:17,278
look at two. However, the it doesn't

876
00:29:15,119 --> 00:29:19,119
replace craft. It doesn't replace taste.

877
00:29:17,278 --> 00:29:20,960
it doesn't replace, you know, the

878
00:29:19,119 --> 00:29:22,158
attention to detail to ensure that

879
00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:24,640
you're getting each of those things

880
00:29:22,159 --> 00:29:27,440
right. Um, we're really excited about

881
00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:29,120
how it's sped up prototyping and sped

882
00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:30,640
up, you know, experimentation. So, it's

883
00:29:29,119 --> 00:29:32,158
like, how should these accordionss move?

884
00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:34,159
Should it replace this or should it push

885
00:29:32,159 --> 00:29:36,640
that? Uh, we can mock that up really

886
00:29:34,159 --> 00:29:39,278
fast and then saves engineers countless

887
00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:41,278
time hours and and designers as well as

888
00:29:39,278 --> 00:29:43,759
they're exploring different varieties.

889
00:29:41,278 --> 00:29:45,679
It's also really great for user testing.

890
00:29:43,759 --> 00:29:48,079
Um, if we want to be able to change all

891
00:29:45,679 --> 00:29:50,000
the words in here, uh, so that it feels

892
00:29:48,079 --> 00:29:52,639
one way for one user that we're talking

893
00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:54,720
to versus another, we can do that really

894
00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:56,880
easily with AI prototyping. I would say

895
00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:58,960
even during that time period, you know,

896
00:29:56,880 --> 00:30:01,600
what we were exploring is, you know,

897
00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:02,720
feels oldfashioned a year ago versus uh,

898
00:30:01,599 --> 00:30:04,398
how we explore today.

899
00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:06,558
>> How about uh, like the role of

900
00:30:04,398 --> 00:30:09,359
designers? You know, it's it seems like

901
00:30:06,558 --> 00:30:10,480
it's not just um, pushing pixels in

902
00:30:09,359 --> 00:30:12,879
frames in Figma.

903
00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:14,558
>> Yeah. talk about what the designers on

904
00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:16,320
your team are doing and and the role

905
00:30:14,558 --> 00:30:17,038
that they played in uh in actually

906
00:30:16,319 --> 00:30:19,359
building this

907
00:30:17,038 --> 00:30:21,519
>> what designers at Stripe endeavor to do

908
00:30:19,359 --> 00:30:23,599
or to create things that feel like they

909
00:30:21,519 --> 00:30:25,359
push the status quo forward. That kind

910
00:30:23,599 --> 00:30:27,038
of all harks back right to the idea of

911
00:30:25,359 --> 00:30:28,959
like what what is the global progress

912
00:30:27,038 --> 00:30:30,558
that we can provide and we want to do

913
00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:32,558
that via design as well. We want to

914
00:30:30,558 --> 00:30:35,678
create things that are exceedingly easy

915
00:30:32,558 --> 00:30:37,440
to use that are also really really

916
00:30:35,679 --> 00:30:38,720
powerful and that can help people solve

917
00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:40,000
problems or help them build their

918
00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:42,000
business or help them accomplish what

919
00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:43,919
they're trying to do but do so in a way

920
00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:45,679
that actually just brings a little joy

921
00:30:43,919 --> 00:30:47,278
to the day too. You know, because

922
00:30:45,679 --> 00:30:49,440
frankly that's part of progress as well

923
00:30:47,278 --> 00:30:50,880
is that like a beautiful world is

924
00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:53,200
definitely a better world. I want to

925
00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:55,600
live in that one. And so designers are

926
00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:57,919
trying to create things that are going

927
00:30:55,599 --> 00:30:59,839
to be really intentional for our users

928
00:30:57,919 --> 00:31:01,520
but also do so that's you know in a

929
00:30:59,839 --> 00:31:04,319
creative and thoughtful and

930
00:31:01,519 --> 00:31:07,038
differentiated way and I would say the

931
00:31:04,319 --> 00:31:09,439
tools that we're using are allowing for

932
00:31:07,038 --> 00:31:11,278
that now hopefully better and faster you

933
00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:14,159
know as we talked about earlier is that

934
00:31:11,278 --> 00:31:16,398
you know I think AI can you know give us

935
00:31:14,159 --> 00:31:18,559
opportunity to keep the base like to

936
00:31:16,398 --> 00:31:20,158
raise the floor essentially to create

937
00:31:18,558 --> 00:31:22,480
baseline products maybe that like the

938
00:31:20,159 --> 00:31:24,640
seven out of 10 really quickly, really

939
00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:26,558
easily. But then what do you do with

940
00:31:24,640 --> 00:31:28,240
that extra found time? Do you just like

941
00:31:26,558 --> 00:31:30,639
ship that and just like, you know, ship

942
00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:33,200
more sevens out of tens? Like, boy, I

943
00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:34,799
hope not. Uh, what instead we want to do

944
00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:37,120
is, you know, get the things that are

945
00:31:34,798 --> 00:31:39,278
just like, okay, that's a very typical

946
00:31:37,119 --> 00:31:41,278
modal to, you know, accept somebody's

947
00:31:39,278 --> 00:31:42,558
email address to sign them up. Like

948
00:31:41,278 --> 00:31:44,159
maybe you don't need to reinvent the

949
00:31:42,558 --> 00:31:45,918
wheel there. Like as long as that is

950
00:31:44,159 --> 00:31:48,159
like a really good version of that, then

951
00:31:45,919 --> 00:31:49,840
we're good. But now, can we spend the

952
00:31:48,159 --> 00:31:51,519
time to think about new paradigms of

953
00:31:49,839 --> 00:31:53,359
interaction? Like for example, people

954
00:31:51,519 --> 00:31:55,839
are using agents to build their

955
00:31:53,359 --> 00:31:57,278
businesses now. Um they're using agents

956
00:31:55,839 --> 00:31:59,278
to basically do everything under the

957
00:31:57,278 --> 00:32:01,119
sun. So what is your agent experience?

958
00:31:59,278 --> 00:32:03,519
How good is that? What is the the

959
00:32:01,119 --> 00:32:05,278
users's experience going to be like when

960
00:32:03,519 --> 00:32:07,200
they are traversing, you know, the

961
00:32:05,278 --> 00:32:08,798
internet or their tools in that way? And

962
00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:10,640
so that's where I would say designers

963
00:32:08,798 --> 00:32:12,879
are putting more time now is thinking

964
00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:14,799
about those new paradigms of interaction

965
00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:17,039
and trying to think about like what does

966
00:32:14,798 --> 00:32:19,200
great experience or user experience or

967
00:32:17,038 --> 00:32:20,960
agent experience look like for tomorrow.

968
00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:22,798
We have incredible new tools that are

969
00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:24,319
available for everybody. And one of the

970
00:32:22,798 --> 00:32:26,879
trends obviously that that we've been

971
00:32:24,319 --> 00:32:29,519
seeing a lot of is everybody within a

972
00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:33,278
company now having the ability to ship

973
00:32:29,519 --> 00:32:35,200
code and improve products and update the

974
00:32:33,278 --> 00:32:36,880
website and you know the core product

975
00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:39,120
that customers are using which I think

976
00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:40,880
is really powerful and one of the

977
00:32:39,119 --> 00:32:42,000
questions that I think that that comes

978
00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:44,240
out of that

979
00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:46,558
>> um especially from a design perspective

980
00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:49,359
is how do you keep it so there's this

981
00:32:46,558 --> 00:32:51,519
cohesive design language and it stays to

982
00:32:49,359 --> 00:32:52,959
the bar that you is so important to you

983
00:32:51,519 --> 00:32:55,759
and

984
00:32:52,960 --> 00:32:58,000
without being directly in the flow of

985
00:32:55,759 --> 00:32:59,519
how new code gets written and shipped

986
00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:02,398
and going live on the site.

987
00:32:59,519 --> 00:33:04,079
>> Yeah, I really interested to see and be

988
00:33:02,398 --> 00:33:06,558
a part of the evolution of design

989
00:33:04,079 --> 00:33:08,879
systems in this way because design

990
00:33:06,558 --> 00:33:12,319
systems have always been a way to help a

991
00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:14,880
team scale. So as a organization grows

992
00:33:12,319 --> 00:33:16,480
and you can no longer just know what the

993
00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:17,919
right thing is because you know there's

994
00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:19,120
10 of you seated around the table and

995
00:33:17,919 --> 00:33:21,278
you're all just talking about every

996
00:33:19,119 --> 00:33:24,158
single thing you do. when you scale like

997
00:33:21,278 --> 00:33:26,000
it helps the organization make decisions

998
00:33:24,159 --> 00:33:29,440
together and ensure that there's con

999
00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:32,240
coherency in the user's experience with

1000
00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:35,840
AI tools I think that we're going to see

1001
00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:38,880
a whole new wave where these systems are

1002
00:33:35,839 --> 00:33:41,918
you know kind of managed by the AI tools

1003
00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:44,240
and that can help us scale things a lot

1004
00:33:41,919 --> 00:33:46,559
more quickly and so for example as I

1005
00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:49,278
mentioned I you know drew a sketch of

1006
00:33:46,558 --> 00:33:52,000
what I wanted to see built and then I

1007
00:33:49,278 --> 00:33:54,079
put that in the AI tool and then it uses

1008
00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:55,919
the components from our design system to

1009
00:33:54,079 --> 00:33:58,158
piece that together for me and get a

1010
00:33:55,919 --> 00:34:00,320
like the the rough version. Then I want

1011
00:33:58,159 --> 00:34:01,679
to, you know, push it here and there and

1012
00:34:00,319 --> 00:34:03,439
actually, you know what, that component

1013
00:34:01,679 --> 00:34:05,278
isn't really fit to purpose for what I'm

1014
00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:06,798
trying to do here. So this is where

1015
00:34:05,278 --> 00:34:09,039
we're going to need to push from that

1016
00:34:06,798 --> 00:34:11,838
and so then can the AI tool help me

1017
00:34:09,039 --> 00:34:13,918
actually expand the design system and

1018
00:34:11,838 --> 00:34:16,078
actually help to grow it for the use

1019
00:34:13,918 --> 00:34:18,000
cases that we need. And so I think

1020
00:34:16,079 --> 00:34:20,960
there's a lot that is going to be

1021
00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:23,358
facilitated in terms of bringing more

1022
00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:25,358
high quality things at that like

1023
00:34:23,358 --> 00:34:27,440
baseline. But honestly, I mean, this is

1024
00:34:25,358 --> 00:34:29,759
what people have to choose to do because

1025
00:34:27,440 --> 00:34:31,440
sometimes it's so easy when you put it

1026
00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:33,040
in the, you know, the AI tool and it

1027
00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:34,878
spits back a thing and you're like, "Oh,

1028
00:34:33,039 --> 00:34:36,719
that that was fast and that was easy and

1029
00:34:34,878 --> 00:34:38,319
that's pretty good." And you will like

1030
00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:40,319
you can feel it in yourself just being

1031
00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:43,359
like, "Yeah, I guess that's enough." But

1032
00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:46,159
like the reality is like don't be wooed

1033
00:34:43,358 --> 00:34:48,319
by you know just how easy that was to

1034
00:34:46,159 --> 00:34:50,800
achieve but instead ask yourself like

1035
00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:52,800
but is this really is this really great?

1036
00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:53,919
Is this like have I really hit the mark?

1037
00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:56,240
Is this really going to achieve the

1038
00:34:53,918 --> 00:34:57,519
goal? is really going to feel like it's

1039
00:34:56,239 --> 00:34:59,598
wellcraftrafted and put, you know,

1040
00:34:57,519 --> 00:35:00,880
intentionality behind it. And then, you

1041
00:34:59,599 --> 00:35:02,880
know, sometimes that takes, you know,

1042
00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:04,480
another rev and another turn. And, you

1043
00:35:02,880 --> 00:35:06,559
know, the the way that, you know, our

1044
00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:08,079
tools today can allow you to kind of go

1045
00:35:06,559 --> 00:35:10,078
back and like, no, tweak this little bit

1046
00:35:08,079 --> 00:35:12,000
and tweak that little bit. Uh, and

1047
00:35:10,079 --> 00:35:14,640
essentially the merging of design and

1048
00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:16,960
edge tools and one allows you a lot more

1049
00:35:14,639 --> 00:35:19,519
ability to kind of customize that. So,

1050
00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:21,280
you don't need to accept slop and you

1051
00:35:19,519 --> 00:35:23,599
shouldn't accept slop. you should you

1052
00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:24,560
know hunt for fight for the right

1053
00:35:23,599 --> 00:35:26,160
solution.

1054
00:35:24,559 --> 00:35:28,239
>> What are some more principles like that

1055
00:35:26,159 --> 00:35:30,480
that you try to instill in your team? I

1056
00:35:28,239 --> 00:35:32,639
mean, I think I think a part of it is,

1057
00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:33,760
you know, the reality is, and I think we

1058
00:35:32,639 --> 00:35:35,759
may have even talked about this last

1059
00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:38,720
time we talked, like the gravitational

1060
00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:43,119
pull is to mediocrity. Like, it is just

1061
00:35:38,719 --> 00:35:45,439
so easy to accept good enough.

1062
00:35:43,119 --> 00:35:46,800
>> And I think it really really takes

1063
00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:49,039
intentionality and you really have to

1064
00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:52,480
think about like what is the cost of

1065
00:35:49,039 --> 00:35:53,759
accepting good enough. And I think in

1066
00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:55,039
that one decision, you're just like,

1067
00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:56,480
well, it's just fine. Like it's just

1068
00:35:55,039 --> 00:35:58,480
like ship it like it, you know, it

1069
00:35:56,480 --> 00:36:01,039
achieves it. like you know I really you

1070
00:35:58,480 --> 00:36:02,880
know we we've got too much to do and you

1071
00:36:01,039 --> 00:36:04,239
know is it like that data viz thing we

1072
00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:05,760
were talking about before like it's it's

1073
00:36:04,239 --> 00:36:06,959
pretty good you know we got like

1074
00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:08,400
wouldn't it be great to like get the

1075
00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:09,920
team on something else and you you like

1076
00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:11,519
weigh all these other costs and you

1077
00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:13,280
think about it and you end up making a

1078
00:36:11,519 --> 00:36:15,358
decision to go for good enough

1079
00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:18,640
>> but think about if you made that good

1080
00:36:15,358 --> 00:36:21,199
enough decision every day all day every

1081
00:36:18,639 --> 00:36:22,799
day and then think about how many

1082
00:36:21,199 --> 00:36:25,279
companies do that right like how many

1083
00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:27,599
companies really stand out to us as like

1084
00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:29,920
exquisite and exceptional and that like

1085
00:36:27,599 --> 00:36:32,400
really hold that bar up that it reminds

1086
00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:35,680
you of just like how hard it is to fight

1087
00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:37,119
that fight of like well I if I let this

1088
00:36:35,679 --> 00:36:38,319
slide you know what else am I going to

1089
00:36:37,119 --> 00:36:40,559
let slide and what is that like

1090
00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:42,640
composite going to be and then I think a

1091
00:36:40,559 --> 00:36:44,639
lot of people make decisions based on

1092
00:36:42,639 --> 00:36:46,000
well you know the team put so much

1093
00:36:44,639 --> 00:36:47,838
effort in like I'm going to you know

1094
00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:49,599
upset the team if I don't go forward

1095
00:36:47,838 --> 00:36:51,679
it's like well how happy is the team

1096
00:36:49,599 --> 00:36:53,280
going to be if the product is just meh

1097
00:36:51,679 --> 00:36:55,279
fight the gravitational pull to

1098
00:36:53,280 --> 00:36:56,240
mediocrity and do not leave well enough

1099
00:36:55,280 --> 00:36:57,760
alone Mhm.

1100
00:36:56,239 --> 00:36:59,679
>> And really look for the thing that's

1101
00:36:57,760 --> 00:37:01,520
going to make a difference. I think the

1102
00:36:59,679 --> 00:37:03,598
other thing that we talk a lot about

1103
00:37:01,519 --> 00:37:05,679
internally and I think is really

1104
00:37:03,599 --> 00:37:07,838
important for folks to consider when

1105
00:37:05,679 --> 00:37:11,759
they're building products and

1106
00:37:07,838 --> 00:37:13,039
experiences is what is the user going to

1107
00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:14,560
experience at the end of the day. You

1108
00:37:13,039 --> 00:37:16,159
know, we get a little too caught up in

1109
00:37:14,559 --> 00:37:19,519
our own world. We're too comfortable

1110
00:37:16,159 --> 00:37:22,239
with it. And so what I would always say

1111
00:37:19,519 --> 00:37:25,759
is just like realize it the way a user

1112
00:37:22,239 --> 00:37:27,679
would. prototyping, not presenting.

1113
00:37:25,760 --> 00:37:29,359
Don't try to communicate to, you know,

1114
00:37:27,679 --> 00:37:31,440
the stakeholder of like, well, this is

1115
00:37:29,358 --> 00:37:33,199
why we did this and this is, you know,

1116
00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:34,800
the trade-off that we fought against and

1117
00:37:33,199 --> 00:37:36,480
this and that. It's just like if you're

1118
00:37:34,800 --> 00:37:38,560
there to talk about whether or not this

1119
00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:39,838
is the right solution or not, then you

1120
00:37:38,559 --> 00:37:40,880
should be asking of like, well, how is

1121
00:37:39,838 --> 00:37:42,159
this going to feel at the end of the day

1122
00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:44,640
for the person that's going to be

1123
00:37:42,159 --> 00:37:46,639
experiencing this? And, you know, does

1124
00:37:44,639 --> 00:37:49,279
that feel good? Without all of that

1125
00:37:46,639 --> 00:37:52,000
knowledge, do I think that part is is

1126
00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:54,640
the right one? um that makes a big big

1127
00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:57,519
difference. Um I would also say when

1128
00:37:54,639 --> 00:37:59,920
we're exploring different products and

1129
00:37:57,519 --> 00:38:02,559
like what are you know what is actually

1130
00:37:59,920 --> 00:38:04,639
shipworthy or not you think about like

1131
00:38:02,559 --> 00:38:06,719
what the trade-offs are of like is this

1132
00:38:04,639 --> 00:38:09,679
going to negatively impact somebody's

1133
00:38:06,719 --> 00:38:11,679
day? Is this going to be something that

1134
00:38:09,679 --> 00:38:13,039
erodess trust if you don't get this

1135
00:38:11,679 --> 00:38:15,118
right? Is this going to make it to the

1136
00:38:13,039 --> 00:38:17,039
front page of the news? Like what what

1137
00:38:15,119 --> 00:38:19,200
are the tradeoffs when you're making a

1138
00:38:17,039 --> 00:38:21,679
decision? And I guess like a lot of the

1139
00:38:19,199 --> 00:38:23,919
things that I'm talking about here are

1140
00:38:21,679 --> 00:38:26,239
the things that sound like I'm looking

1141
00:38:23,920 --> 00:38:28,960
for perfection. And I think that's also

1142
00:38:26,239 --> 00:38:31,519
a dangerous pursuit because of course

1143
00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:33,039
like your product is only as good as

1144
00:38:31,519 --> 00:38:34,559
what's actually out there, what's

1145
00:38:33,039 --> 00:38:35,679
shipped. It's not what we've been

1146
00:38:34,559 --> 00:38:36,880
thinking about. It's not what we've been

1147
00:38:35,679 --> 00:38:38,239
talking about. It's not our intention

1148
00:38:36,880 --> 00:38:40,000
and what we're pursuing. It's what's

1149
00:38:38,239 --> 00:38:41,919
actually available to the people that

1150
00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:44,880
are you're you're serving.

1151
00:38:41,920 --> 00:38:47,039
>> And I think progress is probably more

1152
00:38:44,880 --> 00:38:49,039
important than perfection in that case.

1153
00:38:47,039 --> 00:38:51,358
And a lot of times it's not out there

1154
00:38:49,039 --> 00:38:52,480
until you actually can learn and

1155
00:38:51,358 --> 00:38:55,039
understand whether or not it's

1156
00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:57,280
effective, especially with AI tools and

1157
00:38:55,039 --> 00:38:59,599
the way that you know you you really

1158
00:38:57,280 --> 00:39:01,440
don't know how people are going to use

1159
00:38:59,599 --> 00:39:03,200
it and how it's going to respond and how

1160
00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:05,760
they're going to evolve with it until

1161
00:39:03,199 --> 00:39:07,679
you can bring it actually to market. And

1162
00:39:05,760 --> 00:39:10,079
so I think you have to have a kind of a

1163
00:39:07,679 --> 00:39:12,319
rubric in place about what are, you

1164
00:39:10,079 --> 00:39:14,320
know, the essential pieces to a

1165
00:39:12,320 --> 00:39:17,039
successful product. I wouldn't call it

1166
00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:20,160
an MVP. It's probably like an MVQP, like

1167
00:39:17,039 --> 00:39:21,599
a minimum viable quality product. Uh

1168
00:39:20,159 --> 00:39:23,519
because again, you don't want to lose

1169
00:39:21,599 --> 00:39:25,599
trust by experimenting with something

1170
00:39:23,519 --> 00:39:27,280
out in the world. Uh but you certainly

1171
00:39:25,599 --> 00:39:28,480
want to learn from their experiences.

1172
00:39:27,280 --> 00:39:30,720
>> It feels like something that's becoming

1173
00:39:28,480 --> 00:39:32,880
even more important these days um with

1174
00:39:30,719 --> 00:39:33,199
all the advancements in AI is QA.

1175
00:39:32,880 --> 00:39:35,039
>> Yeah.

1176
00:39:33,199 --> 00:39:36,639
>> And testing. And you know, you talk

1177
00:39:35,039 --> 00:39:38,079
about having the voice of the user and

1178
00:39:36,639 --> 00:39:40,639
the perspective of the user in your head

1179
00:39:38,079 --> 00:39:42,400
as you're designing. Um, and part of

1180
00:39:40,639 --> 00:39:44,480
what you do at Stripe, which you told us

1181
00:39:42,400 --> 00:39:44,880
about last time, is uh, walking the

1182
00:39:44,480 --> 00:39:45,440
store.

1183
00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:47,920
>> Oh, yeah.

1184
00:39:45,440 --> 00:39:49,760
>> And, um, and you actually go in and you

1185
00:39:47,920 --> 00:39:51,920
test all of the products yourselves and

1186
00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:53,839
you do that as part of a company culture

1187
00:39:51,920 --> 00:39:55,760
and a requirement that everybody does.

1188
00:39:53,838 --> 00:39:57,519
Everyone is expected to do that. Um,

1189
00:39:55,760 --> 00:39:59,760
which I think is really important. How

1190
00:39:57,519 --> 00:40:01,679
has that changed more recently? Um,

1191
00:39:59,760 --> 00:40:03,280
either within Stripe or certainly with

1192
00:40:01,679 --> 00:40:05,598
all the changes with AI that have been

1193
00:40:03,280 --> 00:40:07,760
happening. Walking the store is such an

1194
00:40:05,599 --> 00:40:10,079
important part of building products and

1195
00:40:07,760 --> 00:40:10,800
experiences because again it like at the

1196
00:40:10,079 --> 00:40:12,000
end of the day you're trying to

1197
00:40:10,800 --> 00:40:13,519
understand what the user is going

1198
00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:15,199
through. And when you're building

1199
00:40:13,519 --> 00:40:16,639
something, it's so easy to be like, "Oh

1200
00:40:15,199 --> 00:40:18,078
yeah, we're in our product. We're in it

1201
00:40:16,639 --> 00:40:20,078
all day. I'm thinking about my product

1202
00:40:18,079 --> 00:40:22,320
all day." But what you're thinking about

1203
00:40:20,079 --> 00:40:24,480
is, you know, that next feature that you

1204
00:40:22,320 --> 00:40:27,039
launch and it's really easy to lose

1205
00:40:24,480 --> 00:40:30,159
sight of what's actually out there. It's

1206
00:40:27,039 --> 00:40:31,440
kind of funny like how you can create

1207
00:40:30,159 --> 00:40:33,199
something. you're like, "Oh, when I

1208
00:40:31,440 --> 00:40:35,519
shipped it, we did all these bug bashes

1209
00:40:33,199 --> 00:40:37,118
and it was great." But then you use it

1210
00:40:35,519 --> 00:40:39,199
and maybe you use it a month later,

1211
00:40:37,119 --> 00:40:41,440
maybe you use it, you know, two, six

1212
00:40:39,199 --> 00:40:43,199
months later, and it's evolved. It's

1213
00:40:41,440 --> 00:40:44,720
changed. And the reason why is because

1214
00:40:43,199 --> 00:40:46,639
probably somebody else shipped something

1215
00:40:44,719 --> 00:40:48,719
and somebody else shipped something and

1216
00:40:46,639 --> 00:40:51,039
now it's like, you know, it's in your

1217
00:40:48,719 --> 00:40:52,319
home when you've updated the dining

1218
00:40:51,039 --> 00:40:53,599
room, but none of the other rooms and

1219
00:40:52,320 --> 00:40:55,280
all of a sudden the light switches don't

1220
00:40:53,599 --> 00:40:57,359
match and the colors are off and every

1221
00:40:55,280 --> 00:40:59,359
other room now looks bad. You have to

1222
00:40:57,358 --> 00:41:01,358
think about how that composite works

1223
00:40:59,358 --> 00:41:03,679
together. And you know for Stripe for

1224
00:41:01,358 --> 00:41:06,078
example, we have a number of different

1225
00:41:03,679 --> 00:41:07,598
business areas, right? We have our money

1226
00:41:06,079 --> 00:41:09,519
movement business, we have our revenue

1227
00:41:07,599 --> 00:41:12,079
business, we have our payments business.

1228
00:41:09,519 --> 00:41:14,719
And these organizations need to focus

1229
00:41:12,079 --> 00:41:16,240
and they need to stay true to their

1230
00:41:14,719 --> 00:41:18,480
mission and what they're trying to get

1231
00:41:16,239 --> 00:41:21,039
done. But if they don't think about how

1232
00:41:18,480 --> 00:41:24,079
their product intersects with each

1233
00:41:21,039 --> 00:41:26,159
others and how a user might go from,

1234
00:41:24,079 --> 00:41:28,720
well, I use subscriptions and I use

1235
00:41:26,159 --> 00:41:30,480
payments and I use tax. how are these

1236
00:41:28,719 --> 00:41:32,078
things all going to work together? Then

1237
00:41:30,480 --> 00:41:34,400
they're really missing the user

1238
00:41:32,079 --> 00:41:36,720
experience. And so walking the store

1239
00:41:34,400 --> 00:41:38,240
helps people see kind of the forest

1240
00:41:36,719 --> 00:41:39,358
through the trees and see how all these

1241
00:41:38,239 --> 00:41:42,239
things connect.

1242
00:41:39,358 --> 00:41:44,318
>> And yes, we do basically it's like a

1243
00:41:42,239 --> 00:41:47,279
part of the culture that everybody does

1244
00:41:44,318 --> 00:41:48,559
this. Uh we do have a program that we

1245
00:41:47,280 --> 00:41:51,040
talked about last time, essential

1246
00:41:48,559 --> 00:41:53,599
journeys where we have a a subset of

1247
00:41:51,039 --> 00:41:56,079
these journeys um kind of like on a

1248
00:41:53,599 --> 00:41:58,318
scoreboard and like are they you know

1249
00:41:56,079 --> 00:42:00,400
red, yellow, green, how good are they?

1250
00:41:58,318 --> 00:42:02,719
But everybody should be exploring the

1251
00:42:00,400 --> 00:42:04,639
store different parts imagining

1252
00:42:02,719 --> 00:42:06,318
themselves as different types of users

1253
00:42:04,639 --> 00:42:08,639
experiencing different sides of it and

1254
00:42:06,318 --> 00:42:11,279
trying to find the the dead ends. We

1255
00:42:08,639 --> 00:42:13,279
also do this every Friday where the

1256
00:42:11,280 --> 00:42:15,599
founders do it in front of the whole

1257
00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:17,839
company where they're walking the store.

1258
00:42:15,599 --> 00:42:20,160
One to just instill how important this

1259
00:42:17,838 --> 00:42:22,318
is and kind of raise awareness and also

1260
00:42:20,159 --> 00:42:24,879
to help people think about how do you

1261
00:42:22,318 --> 00:42:27,599
see not everybody has the same attention

1262
00:42:24,880 --> 00:42:29,440
to different types of details. And so I

1263
00:42:27,599 --> 00:42:31,280
might see something that you might not

1264
00:42:29,440 --> 00:42:33,358
because of my discipline or my

1265
00:42:31,280 --> 00:42:34,800
disposition or you know that the user

1266
00:42:33,358 --> 00:42:36,400
that I talked to earlier that week and

1267
00:42:34,800 --> 00:42:38,079
so the thing that I'm interested in. And

1268
00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:40,079
so when we do these things together, we

1269
00:42:38,079 --> 00:42:42,480
see the value that different points of

1270
00:42:40,079 --> 00:42:44,000
view bring. So I really love to walk the

1271
00:42:42,480 --> 00:42:45,838
store with like an engineer in the room

1272
00:42:44,000 --> 00:42:47,119
and a product leader in a room and a

1273
00:42:45,838 --> 00:42:48,960
data science in the room because we're

1274
00:42:47,119 --> 00:42:50,160
all looking at it very differently and

1275
00:42:48,960 --> 00:42:52,318
we're all going to point out different

1276
00:42:50,159 --> 00:42:54,000
things and that is what like gets us

1277
00:42:52,318 --> 00:42:55,119
closer to really actually understanding

1278
00:42:54,000 --> 00:42:57,280
what a user might feel.

1279
00:42:55,119 --> 00:42:59,200
>> Well Katie, this has been incredible.

1280
00:42:57,280 --> 00:43:01,760
Thank you so much for coming and um I

1281
00:42:59,199 --> 00:43:03,358
feel like it's so rare to get an honest

1282
00:43:01,760 --> 00:43:04,800
peak behind the scenes and showing the

1283
00:43:03,358 --> 00:43:06,719
process and all the steps that you had

1284
00:43:04,800 --> 00:43:07,680
along the way. So, uh, really appreciate

1285
00:43:06,719 --> 00:43:09,759
you sharing that with us.

1286
00:43:07,679 --> 00:43:11,279
>> It was a lot of fun. I'm always happy to

1287
00:43:09,760 --> 00:43:13,200
talk about behind the scenes. I think

1288
00:43:11,280 --> 00:43:14,960
the blood, sweat, and tears and the

1289
00:43:13,199 --> 00:43:16,960
effort that goes into it is something

1290
00:43:14,960 --> 00:43:18,559
that's a part of the work, but is often

1291
00:43:16,960 --> 00:43:19,920
not talked about. I love hearing it from

1292
00:43:18,559 --> 00:43:21,119
other designers, and I'm always happy to

1293
00:43:19,920 --> 00:43:21,599
talk about it myself. Thanks for having

1294
00:43:21,119 --> 00:43:23,680
me on.

1295
00:43:21,599 --> 00:43:25,440
>> Awesome. That does it for another design

1296
00:43:23,679 --> 00:43:29,399
review. Thank you for joining us, and

1297
00:43:25,440 --> 00:43:29,400
we'll see you on the next episode.