WEBVTT

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take me to the frontier of particle

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physics today there's tremendous

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progress being it's such an exciting

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time in fundamental physics not only

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particle physics but we said

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gravitational astronomy the exploration

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of the force of gravity black holes

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Quantum information Quantum Computing

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and all sorts all that stuff is is to me

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utterly fascinating I I think for the

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first time it's probably true to say in

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particle physics we don't know if

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there's anything else just around the

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corner which is bad you know but it's

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also it is our duty to find things out

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about

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nature this is Star Talk Neil degrass

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Tyson you're a personal astrophysicist

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and today we are featuring my exclusive

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one-on-one interview with my friend and

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colleague from across the pond Brian Cox

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Brian welcome hi it's great to be back

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oh my God gosh oh it's it's been been

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tooo long yeah and we don't usually get

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to do it in person it's usually over

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Zoom or something right let's get some

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of your biography out there for State

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Side people who might not fully know who

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you are uh you cut your teeth as a

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particle physicist is that correct yeah

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initially I mean actually my degree is

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the University of Manchester by the way

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in the UK I've never left so I started

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there doing my undergraduate degree

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postgraduate what do they call you there

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now you are professor of particle

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physics at the University of Manchester

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yeah and Royal

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Society as in the Royal Society of

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London yeah Royal Society professor of

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public engagement in science yeah so

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we're Kindred Souls across the Atlantic

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yeah so okay so you never left is that

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because they wanted you so badly or that

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no one else wanted you yeah probably the

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latter but but I started it was actually

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um physics with astrophysics my degree

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so I did a degree physics with

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astrophysics then PhD in particle

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physics although the first year was I

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was working on supernova neutrinos so I

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crossing over in astroparticle physics

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as we would call it then I got into

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particle physics went to the daisy

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laboratory in Hamburg and works on

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electron proton collisions so called

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defc scattering I've seen Daisy online

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I've seen Daisy simulations of things

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they simulate like colliding black holes

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and things fascinating Daisy they Dy

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theut synchron yeah they they have a a

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public facing platform see I didn't know

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that I didn't know because the

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accelerator is no longer operational so

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but it's a big it's it's a huge lab in

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Hamburg so I did my PhD there that's in

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particle physics then moved to fermilab

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in Chicago for a while and then to CERN

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when we were Building A Large Hadron

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Collider and then but I've always

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Switzerland yes in Geneva and remind me

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that's Center the European Center for

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nuclear research research acony French

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acronymed yeah to because it was founded

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in the 1950s and at the time so it was

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it was what part of the Reconstruction

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of Europe really after the war so it was

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a that lab was founded I think it's 1954

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1953 um and so it was Nuclear Physics at

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the time there wasn't really such a

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thing as particle physics I suppose at

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the time and then and now it's by far

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the world's largest accelerator particle

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physics lab yeah I mean the center of

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mass of that whole world left the United

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States when we stopped funding our super

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in Texas yeah the SSC super conducting

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supering super collider yeah I would

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have called it the super duper collider

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that might have kept its funding at that

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point but uh yeah so Europe still leads

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the world in in nuclear particle

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research it's a it's a it's a very

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International lab I mean it is the

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world's cider so um so although it's

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based in Switzerland and France I would

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say it's a it's a world lab

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okay that's very diplomatic of you well

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it certainly is I mean the US have a

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tremendous presence there for example

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while you're saying all this to me

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you're not describing this this branch

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of your life as a musician so just

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briefly remind me of that yes so when I

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was uh 18 so traditionally you would go

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to university there start a Physics

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degree but I didn't because I was in a

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band a rock band that I joined just

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before I'm sure your parents love that

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fact no they did actually they they they

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loved it I could go to college and major

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in physics or continue with my band oh

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but do you have that thing like a gap

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year we call it where you say well I'm

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going to take a year off the studies

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before I go to college or university and

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so I'd said that I'd said I'm going to

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be in this band and and I'm just going

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to do it for a year and then I'll go and

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do physics H but then we got a record

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deal uh a big record deal with A&M

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records this is in 1986 1987 it's a long

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time ago got a big record deal and so we

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we I came to Los Angeles and recorded an

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album with uh actually produced by Larry

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kleene who was married to Joanie

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Mitchell at the time and so we recorded

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some of it in Janie Mitchell studio in

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Los Angeles so and then we toured with

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uh my first professional gig with that

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band was with Jimmy Page in Jimmy pagee

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and did you open for Jimmy Page yeah we

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open for Jimmy pagee and and Gary Moore

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who'd also been in the band thing Lizzy

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and then Europe the The Final Countdown

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so you know this song The Final

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Countdown and Carri was a big h here in

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the US so we opened for them made a

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couple of albums so I did that basically

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for five years and it charted uh

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actually no we we just we did Big Shows

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it was a rock and roll band and then and

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then we I left that band um went

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straight back to Manchester and went to

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start a Physics degree as one do yes but

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then in that little Gap that I joined

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another band who then had some hit

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records so a band called D this is in

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the early 90s now and we we they didn't

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have a record deal when I joined them

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and they got a record deal as well so

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when I was at University I was in this

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band we had a number one hit in the UK

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and Australia with a song which violates

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the second law thermodynamics which

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you'll love call things can only get

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better which is clearly incorrect

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certainly things could only get worse

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globally in the universe exactly so and

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then so so yeah so I had a two and that

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song what helped it if I remember

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correctly some political candidate

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adopted it their theme song Tony Blair

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it was very ton Blair yeah it was Tony

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Blair in

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1997 his associated with his election

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yeah and came back actually into fashion

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because we just had a a change of

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administration in the UK and uh that

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song came up again and it came up and it

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got quite popular again so I did

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Glastonbury this year with the band wait

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that's that huge Place yeah the big

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Festival yeah that's the hu any huge

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scene of musicians in the UK is at that

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location well it's the world I mean it's

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probably the biggest Festival in the

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world I would imagine I would guess but

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it's a huge Festival so you and Brian

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May those we are the two he did it the

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other way around though he he so he he

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got

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extremely well yeah he he got extremely

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famous and then finished his PhD in

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astrophysics yeah okay Brian May good Le

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guitarist of queen queen yes yeah so

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let's pick up some of the physics we are

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both here right now now in Las Vegas uh

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at

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a world Skeptics conference yeah yeah uh

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we we're both Skeptics I mean any

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scientist is a skeptic but problem is

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when the world does weird things who's

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going to put them in check somebody's

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got to show up at the scene and say no

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that's not how that works or no the laws

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of physics prevent that or you so you've

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you've had to do this in the UK right

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there's certain resonances between the

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United States and the UK about how

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people misthink things so what was your

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baptism into this world well actually I

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mean I was only interested in doing

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research for a long time so I as a

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postar and that in that part of my

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career I didn't want to know about

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anything else other than doing research

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and that's all I did but um it was uh I

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can't remember when it was now but there

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was one of those regular funding crises

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as you'll know from here in the US when

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when government support in particular

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for research dipped and so I got

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involved in trying to fight that and we

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realize I mean it's kind of obvious I

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suppose but we realize that one of the

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reasons talking to government that they

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had cut the research budget was that

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they didn't think anyone cared so they

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thought it was a simple thing to demy

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you could just and so we we as a

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Community we were re-ed we we learned

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again we've learned over the years but

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we learned again that popular support

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popular support uh for for what we do is

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important and and where does the support

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comes from it comes from understanding

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and I could there are many reasons by

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the way why uh talking to people who are

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not in science about what we are doing

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as scientists is important one of them

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of course is just purely democratizing

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knowledge it's it we tax payers fund at

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least in part what we do and therefore

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they have a right to know so there's

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that level but on the other level which

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I think you're suggesting as well um

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what science does I think it's not it's

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not about knowing the facts it's not

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about really it's not about knowing the

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universe is 13.8 billion years old for

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example or it's 13.8 billion years since

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the Big Bang we could talk about that

00:09:51.879 --> 00:09:56.399
later actually does that mean it had a

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bite origin in time in the P that anyway

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but it's not put in that we'll get back

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to that okay it's not about knowing

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facts so much

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as understanding something about the

00:10:04.519 --> 00:10:09.399
process by which we acquire reliable

00:10:06.919 --> 00:10:12.000
knowledge about the world and and

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science is the process by which we

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acquire reliable knowledge and so I I

00:10:14.559 --> 00:10:20.799
think that realiz in that on that well

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it's yeah in the sense I think in the

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sense that nature is there whether and

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and it the job of the scientist is to

00:10:28.839 --> 00:10:33.240
find out how it works and of course as

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Richard fan and many others are famously

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said it doesn't care who you are or what

00:10:35.559 --> 00:10:39.278
your opinion is or how popular you are

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how many votes you got or anything how

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much money you've got it doesn't care so

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in that sense I think it is a unique

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Pursuit because the the standard by

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which your opinion is judged is is

00:10:49.200 --> 00:10:52.879
external to us it's nothing to do with

00:10:51.159 --> 00:10:56.480
Humanity nature is the ultimate judge

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jury an executioner so so so I think I

00:10:56.480 --> 00:11:02.159
became involved initially just on that

00:10:58.958 --> 00:11:03.919
very narrow idea that we wanted to make

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sure that people understood what we did

00:11:03.919 --> 00:11:08.039
and what the value of it is and then

00:11:06.200 --> 00:11:10.600
that branch that that became bigger and

00:11:08.039 --> 00:11:12.519
bigger in my career and and Branch

00:11:10.600 --> 00:11:14.800
Stein's television and and live shows

00:11:12.519 --> 00:11:18.240
and all sorts of things but it came from

00:11:14.799 --> 00:11:19.879
that that's I wasn't interested in

00:11:18.240 --> 00:11:22.039
communicating science I was just

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interested in doing it for a very long

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time so you had a certain Duty and

00:11:25.399 --> 00:11:30.200
responsibility to the world well I think

00:11:27.159 --> 00:11:34.159
we all do I mean I've realized since

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that I I think uh actually fan again

00:11:34.159 --> 00:11:39.120
said it's a very brilliant essay that

00:11:36.480 --> 00:11:41.278
anyone can download from 1955 I think it

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is called the value of science it's just

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four pages and it's there it's on calex

00:11:44.360 --> 00:11:49.839
archive I think and in there he says

00:11:47.278 --> 00:11:54.679
that it is our duty as scientists our

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duty knowing the the great value of he

00:11:54.679 --> 00:11:58.599
calls it he defines science as a

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satisfactory philosophy of ignorance

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which is a beauti

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just merely satisfactory it's philosophy

00:12:01.440 --> 00:12:04.480
of ignorance you start out from not

00:12:02.958 --> 00:12:05.559
knowing and he said and he said the

00:12:04.480 --> 00:12:07.079
great value of the satisfactory

00:12:05.559 --> 00:12:09.879
philosophy of ignorance the great value

00:12:07.078 --> 00:12:12.479
of freedom of thought to Proclaim that

00:12:09.879 --> 00:12:14.159
freedom and to try to protect it for all

00:12:12.480 --> 00:12:16.879
coming Generations essentially says at

00:12:14.159 --> 00:12:20.240
the end so but but I like the framing it

00:12:16.879 --> 00:12:23.039
is our duty as scientist to do that as

00:12:20.240 --> 00:12:25.320
well as do our job which is to find

00:12:23.039 --> 00:12:27.919
things out about nature about the

00:12:25.320 --> 00:12:31.399
natural world and I uh in this

00:12:27.919 --> 00:12:34.639
conference I am to bestow upon you the

00:12:31.399 --> 00:12:37.600
Richard Dawkins award for science and

00:12:34.639 --> 00:12:39.240
reason bestow bestow yes the Richard

00:12:37.600 --> 00:12:43.560
Dawkins award is something I won last

00:12:39.240 --> 00:12:45.799
year and uh I was called back in to

00:12:43.559 --> 00:12:49.399
bestow it upon

00:12:45.799 --> 00:12:51.639
you a great honor it is a it will be a

00:12:49.399 --> 00:12:54.958
delight for me it takes place tonight

00:12:51.639 --> 00:12:58.120
yeah I look forward to that and just the

00:12:54.958 --> 00:13:00.359
idea that science and reason is

00:12:58.120 --> 00:13:02.198
something maybe it's sad that it's

00:13:00.360 --> 00:13:04.800
something that needs to be

00:13:02.198 --> 00:13:07.879
rewarded because if it's one of these

00:13:04.799 --> 00:13:10.359
awards that if the world functioned just

00:13:07.879 --> 00:13:12.600
right you wouldn't need it and also you

00:13:10.360 --> 00:13:14.879
know although I said as as fan has said

00:13:12.600 --> 00:13:17.639
it's it's in in a sense our duty as

00:13:14.879 --> 00:13:20.759
scientists it is also true that not all

00:13:17.639 --> 00:13:22.720
scientists want to want to do that or or

00:13:20.759 --> 00:13:26.039
feel comfortable with it as I said I

00:13:22.720 --> 00:13:27.800
didn't want to do it um initially now

00:13:26.039 --> 00:13:30.799
now I very much enjoy it and think it's

00:13:27.799 --> 00:13:33.559
very important but it so we don't need

00:13:30.799 --> 00:13:35.879
everybody to to do it but but some

00:13:33.559 --> 00:13:37.838
people will and that's that's important

00:13:35.879 --> 00:13:39.519
right discussing big ideas with experts

00:13:37.839 --> 00:13:41.839
from physicists and biologists to

00:13:39.519 --> 00:13:44.198
entertainers and politicians is our

00:13:41.839 --> 00:13:47.279
favorite way to critically explore the

00:13:44.198 --> 00:13:48.838
world around us and now with spacex's

00:13:47.278 --> 00:13:51.559
Starship on track to ramp up its

00:13:48.839 --> 00:13:54.880
launches Elon Musk is turning Visionary

00:13:51.559 --> 00:13:56.359
ideas into real progress however since

00:13:54.879 --> 00:13:58.559
his cabinet appointment in Trump's

00:13:56.360 --> 00:14:00.800
Administration many are wondering about

00:13:58.559 --> 00:14:03.679
Musk conflicts of interest his influence

00:14:00.799 --> 00:14:05.838
on policies and more so tracking

00:14:03.679 --> 00:14:08.198
developments through reliable sources

00:14:05.839 --> 00:14:10.680
these next four years is absolutely

00:14:08.198 --> 00:14:13.120
essential something our long-term

00:14:10.679 --> 00:14:15.799
Partners at Ground news simplify they're

00:14:13.120 --> 00:14:17.799
an app and website founded by a former

00:14:15.799 --> 00:14:20.519
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00:14:17.799 --> 00:14:23.639
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00:14:20.519 --> 00:14:26.278
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00:14:23.639 --> 00:14:28.278
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00:14:26.278 --> 00:14:31.639
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00:14:31.639 --> 00:14:35.919
media bubble and find important angles

00:14:33.879 --> 00:14:38.519
impacting space and Beyond you might

00:14:35.919 --> 00:14:40.198
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00:14:38.519 --> 00:14:42.600
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00:15:16.039 --> 00:15:22.480
let's get back to the show so let's talk

00:15:20.078 --> 00:15:24.838
physics take me to the frontier of

00:15:22.480 --> 00:15:28.560
particle physics today what's going on

00:15:24.839 --> 00:15:30.360
at CERN now that the pigs boan is

00:15:28.559 --> 00:15:33.518
discovered and the Nobel prizes were

00:15:30.360 --> 00:15:36.240
granted uh what are they doing now well

00:15:33.519 --> 00:15:38.560
did they just close shop and go home no

00:15:36.240 --> 00:15:39.720
I mean what what particle physics is

00:15:38.559 --> 00:15:42.239
because we're talking about quantum

00:15:39.720 --> 00:15:44.560
mechanics basically it's statistical in

00:15:42.240 --> 00:15:46.079
the sense that do you Collide what we do

00:15:44.559 --> 00:15:48.278
there is Collide protons together at

00:15:46.078 --> 00:15:50.919
high energy and we Collide a lots of

00:15:48.278 --> 00:15:53.519
protons together at high energy protons

00:15:50.919 --> 00:15:55.559
have a charge so that you can put them

00:15:53.519 --> 00:15:57.959
in a magnetic field and accelerate them

00:15:55.559 --> 00:15:59.479
yeah to very high speed yeah so so they

00:15:57.958 --> 00:16:02.278
go so the LHC

00:15:59.480 --> 00:16:05.240
in kilometers is 27 kilm and that's the

00:16:02.278 --> 00:16:08.519
number yeah about 60 miles or something

00:16:05.240 --> 00:16:11.240
like that and uh and the the protons go

00:16:08.519 --> 00:16:13.839
around that ring uh 11,000 times a

00:16:11.240 --> 00:16:16.278
second so that's how fast they go that's

00:16:13.839 --> 00:16:19.040
fast that's

00:16:16.278 --> 00:16:22.159
99.999999% the speed of light okay so

00:16:19.039 --> 00:16:25.198
you you've granted them energy so that

00:16:22.159 --> 00:16:28.439
when you Collide them you break them

00:16:25.198 --> 00:16:29.439
apart you're basically deconstructing

00:16:28.440 --> 00:16:33.279
nature

00:16:29.440 --> 00:16:35.480
to see what residue comes out of it when

00:16:33.278 --> 00:16:37.919
I think of doing that for anything else

00:16:35.480 --> 00:16:39.680
it's going to break right I don't take

00:16:37.919 --> 00:16:42.399
chairs and slam them together and still

00:16:39.679 --> 00:16:47.479
have chairs I have a pile

00:16:42.399 --> 00:16:50.720
of of kindling okay so who ever thought

00:16:47.480 --> 00:16:52.920
it was a good idea to smash nature into

00:16:50.720 --> 00:16:56.199
itself well um I suppose ER is

00:16:52.919 --> 00:16:59.000
Rutherford initially um so we go back to

00:16:56.198 --> 00:17:02.479
Manchester the turn of the 20th century

00:16:59.000 --> 00:17:05.838
and Rutherford was using radioactive

00:17:02.480 --> 00:17:07.599
decay to um essentially produce the

00:17:05.838 --> 00:17:09.599
particles I mean it's just the the decay

00:17:07.599 --> 00:17:11.639
of the decay of atomic nuclei that

00:17:09.599 --> 00:17:13.879
naturally happens to produce high energy

00:17:11.640 --> 00:17:17.640
particles which he then fired into gold

00:17:13.880 --> 00:17:19.360
foil and bounced them off the foil in

00:17:17.640 --> 00:17:22.120
doing that he discovered the atomic

00:17:19.359 --> 00:17:24.438
nucleus so you one way to think about

00:17:22.119 --> 00:17:25.639
particle physics is that you when you

00:17:24.439 --> 00:17:27.798
Collide things together what are you

00:17:25.640 --> 00:17:29.960
doing you you're really building a

00:17:27.798 --> 00:17:31.200
microscope one way to think of it is

00:17:29.960 --> 00:17:32.798
that the higher the energy of the

00:17:31.200 --> 00:17:35.798
Collision the the faster these things

00:17:32.798 --> 00:17:38.038
are traveling uh the smaller the the

00:17:35.798 --> 00:17:40.160
smaller the objects you can see so we

00:17:38.038 --> 00:17:42.879
were talking about seeing for the first

00:17:40.160 --> 00:17:46.558
time in those experiments the atomic

00:17:42.880 --> 00:17:48.440
nucleus and you move forward to the um

00:17:46.558 --> 00:17:50.639
you well ultimately through the 50s and

00:17:48.440 --> 00:17:52.558
60s and we have higher and higher energy

00:17:50.640 --> 00:17:55.640
collisions you start seeing that the

00:17:52.558 --> 00:17:57.200
nucleus is made of protons and neutrons

00:17:55.640 --> 00:17:58.960
and then you start seeing in the 50s and

00:17:57.200 --> 00:18:01.279
60s that the protons and neutrons are

00:17:58.960 --> 00:18:03.400
made of smaller things called quarks and

00:18:01.279 --> 00:18:04.960
so we discover those that we've not

00:18:03.400 --> 00:18:06.320
discovered anything smaller than that by

00:18:04.960 --> 00:18:08.720
the way is it because you don't have

00:18:06.319 --> 00:18:11.200
enough energy to bust up a quark yes

00:18:08.720 --> 00:18:13.759
well well or or to resolve what's inside

00:18:11.200 --> 00:18:15.640
it let's say to build a microscope

00:18:13.759 --> 00:18:18.158
because right now the inventory of

00:18:15.640 --> 00:18:19.320
fundamental particles includes quirks

00:18:18.159 --> 00:18:21.000
yeah so somebody saying that's

00:18:19.319 --> 00:18:22.960
fundamental which sounds a little like

00:18:21.000 --> 00:18:24.679
the Greeks saying atoms are fundamental

00:18:22.960 --> 00:18:26.640
oh no they won't be fundamental you're

00:18:24.679 --> 00:18:29.640
absolutely right but uh but they look

00:18:26.640 --> 00:18:31.799
Point like from the the point view from

00:18:29.640 --> 00:18:33.559
the energies that we can generate today

00:18:31.798 --> 00:18:34.918
but that that's one side of particle

00:18:33.558 --> 00:18:36.879
physics so we've been exploring the

00:18:34.919 --> 00:18:38.159
structure of matter which is

00:18:36.880 --> 00:18:40.760
historically you know it goes back to

00:18:38.159 --> 00:18:42.720
Rutherford I suppose and again you have

00:18:40.759 --> 00:18:46.279
confidence that when you break matter

00:18:42.720 --> 00:18:49.400
apart you didn't break the matter you're

00:18:46.279 --> 00:18:50.879
just deconstructing it yeah you you're

00:18:49.400 --> 00:18:52.559
it really I think the way to think about

00:18:50.880 --> 00:18:55.960
it when you think about what a collision

00:18:52.558 --> 00:18:59.000
is so let's say you Collide as we did at

00:18:55.960 --> 00:19:01.319
in my PhD electrons and protons together

00:18:59.000 --> 00:19:02.839
so you get an electron beam and a proton

00:19:01.319 --> 00:19:04.639
beam and you smash them into each other

00:19:02.839 --> 00:19:07.359
what's actually happening what's

00:19:04.640 --> 00:19:08.960
actually happening is one way that the

00:19:07.359 --> 00:19:11.000
Collision can happen is that the

00:19:08.960 --> 00:19:13.120
electron can emit a photon which is a

00:19:11.000 --> 00:19:15.880
particle of light and the particle of

00:19:13.119 --> 00:19:18.599
light goes and and and it hits the pH

00:19:15.880 --> 00:19:20.679
the proton now the the wavelength of

00:19:18.599 --> 00:19:24.038
that light which is which telling you

00:19:20.679 --> 00:19:25.919
how small a thing you can see is

00:19:24.038 --> 00:19:27.079
proportional to the energy of the thing

00:19:25.919 --> 00:19:29.360
that's how hard we're smashing the

00:19:27.079 --> 00:19:31.359
things together so the

00:19:29.359 --> 00:19:32.558
together yeah so faster you smash

00:19:31.359 --> 00:19:35.000
together the higher the energy the

00:19:32.558 --> 00:19:37.519
smaller the the smaller the things that

00:19:35.000 --> 00:19:39.480
you can see so so that's a way of

00:19:37.519 --> 00:19:41.240
thinking about particle collision so it

00:19:39.480 --> 00:19:43.159
really is a microscope in that sense

00:19:41.240 --> 00:19:44.679
that analogy works I'm just thinking if

00:19:43.159 --> 00:19:47.480
I were a proton I wouldn't want to be

00:19:44.679 --> 00:19:49.519
busted apart into quirks that would not

00:19:47.480 --> 00:19:51.319
be a nice day for me in some ways I

00:19:49.519 --> 00:19:53.558
suppose it's like having it's kind of

00:19:51.319 --> 00:19:54.720
like having an x-ray I suppose isn't it

00:19:53.558 --> 00:19:56.000
you're right though you hit them hard

00:19:54.720 --> 00:19:59.200
enough and they fall to bits but that

00:19:56.000 --> 00:20:01.839
would be the same for you would so

00:19:59.200 --> 00:20:03.798
but we we would try not to hit ex what

00:20:01.839 --> 00:20:04.959
the bits that I fell into no one's

00:20:03.798 --> 00:20:07.839
considered them

00:20:04.960 --> 00:20:09.200
fundamental bits of Neil but right but

00:20:07.839 --> 00:20:11.000
the other way to think about particle

00:20:09.200 --> 00:20:13.120
physics which is I think so you say the

00:20:11.000 --> 00:20:15.240
higs particle you mentioned so that's

00:20:13.119 --> 00:20:17.000
not in the proton you're not you're not

00:20:15.240 --> 00:20:18.440
smashing the things together and finding

00:20:17.000 --> 00:20:21.599
a higs particle buried in there

00:20:18.440 --> 00:20:23.240
somewhere the other side is really so

00:20:21.599 --> 00:20:26.519
you think of Einstein's famous equation

00:20:23.240 --> 00:20:28.679
eal mc^2 so energy and mass are

00:20:26.519 --> 00:20:30.319
interchangeable let's put it like that

00:20:28.679 --> 00:20:32.919
so it also says that if we have loads of

00:20:30.319 --> 00:20:35.599
energy in these collisions then we can

00:20:32.919 --> 00:20:37.159
make new particles that are extremely

00:20:35.599 --> 00:20:38.839
massive much more massive that would

00:20:37.159 --> 00:20:40.520
come spontaneously out of the available

00:20:38.839 --> 00:20:43.639
energy that would otherwise be doing

00:20:40.519 --> 00:20:46.798
nothing so so we have when you Collide

00:20:43.640 --> 00:20:50.480
protons together these energies you have

00:20:46.798 --> 00:20:53.359
plenty of energy there to make a higs

00:20:50.480 --> 00:20:55.440
particle for example or a top quar which

00:20:53.359 --> 00:20:58.038
is a very heavy particle as well far

00:20:55.440 --> 00:21:00.279
more massive than the protons so so

00:20:58.038 --> 00:21:02.640
that's I suppose the way to think about

00:21:00.279 --> 00:21:04.519
trying to manufacture higs particles so

00:21:02.640 --> 00:21:06.038
you can observe them you need enough

00:21:04.519 --> 00:21:08.519
energy to make them so you're not just

00:21:06.038 --> 00:21:11.359
buing them apart you're creating an

00:21:08.519 --> 00:21:12.720
opportunity to view more massive

00:21:11.359 --> 00:21:14.000
particles than would otherwise be

00:21:12.720 --> 00:21:16.000
available to you yeah and the other

00:21:14.000 --> 00:21:17.558
thing to say so to get a complete

00:21:16.000 --> 00:21:21.319
picture is these very massive things

00:21:17.558 --> 00:21:24.240
like higs particles um they they have a

00:21:21.319 --> 00:21:26.678
very short lifetime so you make them and

00:21:24.240 --> 00:21:28.159
they Decay away into lighter particles

00:21:26.679 --> 00:21:31.440
very very fast so you don't see the higs

00:21:28.159 --> 00:21:33.559
particles what you see the the debris

00:21:31.440 --> 00:21:35.759
from the decay of the higs particle and

00:21:33.558 --> 00:21:38.759
the the the the challenge of particle

00:21:35.759 --> 00:21:40.879
physics is to get detect all those bits

00:21:38.759 --> 00:21:42.400
that came off basically and by the way

00:21:40.880 --> 00:21:43.840
you also have the bits of the protons

00:21:42.400 --> 00:21:46.278
that all got smashed up as well so it's

00:21:43.839 --> 00:21:49.319
a big mess and we have more

00:21:46.278 --> 00:21:52.200
than these these it's very hard because

00:21:49.319 --> 00:21:55.079
you don't only have one proton Collision

00:21:52.200 --> 00:21:57.319
per we we we send the particles around

00:21:55.079 --> 00:22:00.199
in little bunches basically so you can

00:21:57.319 --> 00:22:02.960
get 10 20 30 collisions at the same time

00:22:00.200 --> 00:22:05.319
only one of them on a very good day will

00:22:02.960 --> 00:22:06.640
be an interesting one and and then so

00:22:05.319 --> 00:22:09.000
you've got to sift through all this

00:22:06.640 --> 00:22:10.480
which is the the the difficulty or the

00:22:09.000 --> 00:22:12.558
professional challenge let's say of

00:22:10.480 --> 00:22:15.120
particle physics with that reasoning

00:22:12.558 --> 00:22:17.918
there's always some next energy level

00:22:15.119 --> 00:22:19.399
that you haven't visited yes where more

00:22:17.919 --> 00:22:21.360
and interesting physics can reveal

00:22:19.400 --> 00:22:24.880
itself and this is where it gets um

00:22:21.359 --> 00:22:26.639
challenging at the moment because so the

00:22:24.880 --> 00:22:29.080
the so-called standard model higs

00:22:26.640 --> 00:22:31.919
particle and I should just that for a

00:22:29.079 --> 00:22:33.918
minute that that thing the existence of

00:22:31.919 --> 00:22:38.000
this thing was predicted in the 1960s by

00:22:33.919 --> 00:22:40.919
Peter higs and others and um it was a

00:22:38.000 --> 00:22:43.679
suggestion a theory a guess let's say at

00:22:40.919 --> 00:22:45.440
the time mathematically motivated almost

00:22:43.679 --> 00:22:48.440
purely by the way mathematically

00:22:45.440 --> 00:22:51.278
motivated of how things get mass in the

00:22:48.440 --> 00:22:54.360
universe at the most fundamental level

00:22:51.278 --> 00:22:56.440
how the quarks and the these these very

00:22:54.359 --> 00:22:59.599
heavy things called the w and z bosons

00:22:56.440 --> 00:23:01.278
that how how those things got m

00:22:59.599 --> 00:23:04.240
um and so it was a a mathematical

00:23:01.278 --> 00:23:07.960
construct it predicted that there should

00:23:04.240 --> 00:23:10.359
be in the simplest case one this thing

00:23:07.960 --> 00:23:15.000
the higs Bose on but there could be more

00:23:10.359 --> 00:23:17.678
complicated versions and so we knew that

00:23:15.000 --> 00:23:19.359
if we collided protons together at the

00:23:17.679 --> 00:23:22.278
energies that we generate at the large

00:23:19.359 --> 00:23:25.000
handron collider then we would either

00:23:22.278 --> 00:23:28.640
discover the higs BOS on and prove this

00:23:25.000 --> 00:23:30.240
Theory to be correct or we knew that if

00:23:28.640 --> 00:23:34.200
it wasn't there we would see something

00:23:30.240 --> 00:23:36.679
else so we had a very clear idea from

00:23:34.200 --> 00:23:38.840
experiment and theory that we were going

00:23:36.679 --> 00:23:40.840
to discover something with that machine

00:23:38.839 --> 00:23:42.959
and you don't know what it is it turned

00:23:40.839 --> 00:23:44.839
out it was the simplest thing it was

00:23:42.960 --> 00:23:46.640
this thing that Peter higs had had

00:23:44.839 --> 00:23:49.720
dreamt of for all those years ago which

00:23:46.640 --> 00:23:51.240
is astonishing by the way 50 years after

00:23:49.720 --> 00:23:52.480
the prediction and there's there's a

00:23:51.240 --> 00:23:54.400
great essay that you might know by

00:23:52.480 --> 00:23:56.360
Eugene vigner called the unreasonable

00:23:54.400 --> 00:23:58.640
effectiveness of mathematics physical

00:23:56.359 --> 00:24:00.639
sciences I think that's the one of the

00:23:58.640 --> 00:24:03.640
best examples it's an astonishing

00:24:00.640 --> 00:24:06.240
achievement that we got it right and so

00:24:03.640 --> 00:24:09.520
so we discover the higs Bo on to put

00:24:06.240 --> 00:24:12.558
Precision on that that winer's the point

00:24:09.519 --> 00:24:16.480
in that paper it's not that math in a

00:24:12.558 --> 00:24:17.879
vacuum no pun intended makes discoveries

00:24:16.480 --> 00:24:20.360
it's the

00:24:17.880 --> 00:24:23.600
mathematical representation of a

00:24:20.359 --> 00:24:25.000
physical idea yeah and then you pursue

00:24:23.599 --> 00:24:28.439
the

00:24:25.000 --> 00:24:32.679
math and it applies to the universe but

00:24:28.440 --> 00:24:35.038
only if the physical idea

00:24:32.679 --> 00:24:37.440
is has captured reality in some

00:24:35.038 --> 00:24:40.079
fundamental way although the what it was

00:24:37.440 --> 00:24:41.798
I think the it was a a very a very

00:24:40.079 --> 00:24:44.158
mathematical framework which became the

00:24:41.798 --> 00:24:46.960
standard model of particle physics based

00:24:44.159 --> 00:24:49.399
on ideas of symmetries and all sorts of

00:24:46.960 --> 00:24:51.480
beautiful ideas which which really did

00:24:49.398 --> 00:24:54.398
have mathematical foundations so there's

00:24:51.480 --> 00:24:56.558
an aesthetic sense I think built into

00:24:54.398 --> 00:24:59.839
that model and that would be the pure

00:24:56.558 --> 00:25:01.839
mathematical see I'm you know my people

00:24:59.839 --> 00:25:06.038
in astrophysics we have enough

00:25:01.839 --> 00:25:09.798
embarrassing historical examples of

00:25:06.038 --> 00:25:12.440
chasing know elegance and Kepler Kepler

00:25:09.798 --> 00:25:14.359
I'm saying look at Kepler but the I I

00:25:12.440 --> 00:25:16.038
think the genius of Kepler he had these

00:25:14.359 --> 00:25:18.119
platonic solids in these ideas right

00:25:16.038 --> 00:25:20.480
he's got the pyramid and the cube and

00:25:18.119 --> 00:25:24.879
the this and then he rejected it Based

00:25:20.480 --> 00:25:27.798
on data yes in 16 but his his first

00:25:24.880 --> 00:25:30.320
thought was the universe is beautiful

00:25:27.798 --> 00:25:32.759
and divine and perfect and these solids

00:25:30.319 --> 00:25:34.960
are perfect planets are in the universe

00:25:32.759 --> 00:25:36.879
so it must be a connection he spent 10

00:25:34.960 --> 00:25:38.120
years looking at it yeah and but then

00:25:36.880 --> 00:25:40.559
but then he rejected it and then the

00:25:38.119 --> 00:25:42.239
laws of planetary motion which which are

00:25:40.558 --> 00:25:43.918
indicative of a very beautiful thing

00:25:42.240 --> 00:25:46.399
which is Newton's law of gravitation an

00:25:43.919 --> 00:25:48.278
inverse Square law and so there is a

00:25:46.398 --> 00:25:50.599
there's a beauty underlying it but only

00:25:48.278 --> 00:25:52.759
after he had to scrap this other beauty

00:25:50.599 --> 00:25:55.599
that he had presumed it would be that's

00:25:52.759 --> 00:25:57.599
why we we step lightly when someone says

00:25:55.599 --> 00:26:00.079
I have this beautiful idea yeah okay

00:25:57.599 --> 00:26:02.359
let's hear it but but it is true that

00:26:00.079 --> 00:26:05.599
and I think it's one of the great

00:26:02.359 --> 00:26:07.918
Mysteries that that that there is um

00:26:05.599 --> 00:26:09.959
historically Einstein's theory general

00:26:07.919 --> 00:26:11.960
relativity is another example where

00:26:09.960 --> 00:26:14.278
where a quest for Simplicity and beauty

00:26:11.960 --> 00:26:18.200
and elegance which are judgments right

00:26:14.278 --> 00:26:19.839
the human judgments has led to very very

00:26:18.200 --> 00:26:22.679
precise models of the way that nature

00:26:19.839 --> 00:26:24.879
Works given that CERN which has the

00:26:22.679 --> 00:26:28.600
large hyron collider

00:26:24.880 --> 00:26:30.120
LHC discovered the higs boson if you to

00:26:28.599 --> 00:26:33.519
discover more particles presumably you

00:26:30.119 --> 00:26:35.959
have to keep sort of upgrading the

00:26:33.519 --> 00:26:39.359
system as the LHC was compared to what

00:26:35.960 --> 00:26:42.600
was there before so that you can ever

00:26:39.359 --> 00:26:45.199
with ever greater force bust into the

00:26:42.599 --> 00:26:48.079
particles and see what's lurking so we

00:26:45.200 --> 00:26:51.519
can't increase the energy of the LHC

00:26:48.079 --> 00:26:54.720
very easily so or even easily or we

00:26:51.519 --> 00:26:57.558
can't really so that that would be a

00:26:54.720 --> 00:27:00.640
major change to the machine but what we

00:26:57.558 --> 00:27:03.240
can do and are doing is so-called High

00:27:00.640 --> 00:27:05.960
Luminosity upgrades which means you

00:27:03.240 --> 00:27:08.200
Collide more protons together and the

00:27:05.960 --> 00:27:10.519
thing about um so then you win on the

00:27:08.200 --> 00:27:12.679
statistics of the partical physics is

00:27:10.519 --> 00:27:15.278
it's a quantum mechanics and so things

00:27:12.679 --> 00:27:17.360
happen statistically so so it's you know

00:27:15.278 --> 00:27:19.359
one in I don't know the numbers off to

00:27:17.359 --> 00:27:21.240
my one in 10 billion collisions you'll

00:27:19.359 --> 00:27:24.398
produce something like interesting a

00:27:21.240 --> 00:27:26.720
higs it's less than that but um so so

00:27:24.398 --> 00:27:28.798
when when giving yourself more

00:27:26.720 --> 00:27:32.000
collisions gives you

00:27:28.798 --> 00:27:34.240
more chance to discover new particles

00:27:32.000 --> 00:27:37.759
and it gives you more particles like

00:27:34.240 --> 00:27:40.319
higs bosons to explore if you get a higs

00:27:37.759 --> 00:27:43.119
particle after however many collisions

00:27:40.319 --> 00:27:45.639
and that's kind of rare if you have more

00:27:43.119 --> 00:27:47.518
collisions you'll get more higs yeah to

00:27:45.640 --> 00:27:49.080
improve your statistics on what the hell

00:27:47.519 --> 00:27:52.000
the higs is yeah because we want to know

00:27:49.079 --> 00:27:55.319
but then there could be a reaction

00:27:52.000 --> 00:27:57.240
that's even rarer to manifest than the

00:27:55.319 --> 00:27:58.879
higs and if your sample wasn't large

00:27:57.240 --> 00:28:01.359
enough you would just never go there yes

00:27:58.880 --> 00:28:04.519
you wouldn't see it if you just made one

00:28:01.359 --> 00:28:07.398
thing one particle you know what one

00:28:04.519 --> 00:28:09.278
whatever it is the higs prime whatever

00:28:07.398 --> 00:28:11.439
if you made one of those then you

00:28:09.278 --> 00:28:14.960
wouldn't see it if you made one of

00:28:11.440 --> 00:28:17.320
them superhero Nemesis I'm higs Prime

00:28:14.960 --> 00:28:19.120
you know I've come toy by the way and we

00:28:17.319 --> 00:28:21.278
do look for those things Zed Prime the

00:28:19.119 --> 00:28:22.398
zos on we look for the Z primes because

00:28:21.278 --> 00:28:23.880
they can be signatures of extra

00:28:22.398 --> 00:28:25.759
dimensions in the universe by the way so

00:28:23.880 --> 00:28:28.840
we look for this stuff but the point is

00:28:25.759 --> 00:28:31.119
that if something is very very rare

00:28:28.839 --> 00:28:32.519
then you you won't really see it if you

00:28:31.119 --> 00:28:34.079
just make one or two of them you need to

00:28:32.519 --> 00:28:35.798
make hundreds or thousands or whatever

00:28:34.079 --> 00:28:37.960
it is to see them yeah it's like how

00:28:35.798 --> 00:28:39.319
many people have to live in a city

00:28:37.960 --> 00:28:41.640
before you stumble on someone who's

00:28:39.319 --> 00:28:45.200
seven feet tall yeah that's statistic

00:28:41.640 --> 00:28:47.159
statistically you yeah you need so

00:28:45.200 --> 00:28:49.080
possibly Millions yeah so so the

00:28:47.159 --> 00:28:50.720
upgrades are the the upgrades that we

00:28:49.079 --> 00:28:52.639
can do and it's you have to upgrade the

00:28:50.720 --> 00:28:54.440
detectors the cameras that we use as

00:28:52.640 --> 00:28:56.278
well as the machine okay so you kept the

00:28:54.440 --> 00:28:57.480
same hole in the ground yeah yeah

00:28:56.278 --> 00:28:59.759
because we don't want to dig another one

00:28:57.480 --> 00:29:01.079
of those or change other magnets around

00:28:59.759 --> 00:29:02.200
which are very expensive does that hole

00:29:01.079 --> 00:29:03.759
go through more than one country or is

00:29:02.200 --> 00:29:05.640
it all contain intland France and

00:29:03.759 --> 00:29:07.879
Switzerland wow okay yeah most of it's

00:29:05.640 --> 00:29:10.600
in France actually oh didn't know only a

00:29:07.880 --> 00:29:12.440
little bit of it's in Switzerland okay

00:29:10.599 --> 00:29:15.359
so that's one thing and and the other

00:29:12.440 --> 00:29:17.519
thing is this higs that we've discovered

00:29:15.359 --> 00:29:20.038
that this the question Still Remains is

00:29:17.519 --> 00:29:23.159
it the the simplest one the standard

00:29:20.038 --> 00:29:25.119
model higs called or is it something

00:29:23.159 --> 00:29:27.440
more complicated how does it behave so

00:29:25.119 --> 00:29:29.839
the analogy in in in planetary science

00:29:27.440 --> 00:29:31.840
would be yeah we discovered a moon and

00:29:29.839 --> 00:29:33.519
so you go great then you would like to

00:29:31.839 --> 00:29:34.918
know about the moon you don't want to

00:29:33.519 --> 00:29:37.640
just say we've discovered this moon it's

00:29:34.919 --> 00:29:39.120
a DOT that's fine as you said they're

00:29:37.640 --> 00:29:41.159
interest want characterize it in

00:29:39.119 --> 00:29:45.599
whatever way you can for that you need a

00:29:41.159 --> 00:29:48.039
lot of them to to observe so so so it's

00:29:45.599 --> 00:29:50.319
it's exciting that but and it's

00:29:48.038 --> 00:29:52.599
challenging because I I think for the

00:29:50.319 --> 00:29:55.558
first time it's probably true to say in

00:29:52.599 --> 00:29:57.639
particle physics we don't know if

00:29:55.558 --> 00:29:58.558
there's anything else just around the

00:29:57.640 --> 00:30:02.278
corner

00:29:58.558 --> 00:30:03.639
which is bad you know but it's also good

00:30:02.278 --> 00:30:05.359
I suppose it's just science I mean

00:30:03.640 --> 00:30:07.080
ultimately it's neither bad nor good

00:30:05.359 --> 00:30:09.398
it's the way nature is that's that's

00:30:07.079 --> 00:30:11.558
what triggers whatever next round of

00:30:09.398 --> 00:30:13.678
physics is complete yeah you know you

00:30:11.558 --> 00:30:15.440
get PE you get those people that show up

00:30:13.679 --> 00:30:18.240
and say there's nothing left in physics

00:30:15.440 --> 00:30:20.480
to discover well they be they show up

00:30:18.240 --> 00:30:21.720
every few decad so utterly wrong that

00:30:20.480 --> 00:30:24.880
they're not even

00:30:21.720 --> 00:30:26.640
worth I mean you know there's tremendous

00:30:24.880 --> 00:30:28.840
progress being it's such an exciting

00:30:26.640 --> 00:30:32.559
time in fundamental physics mhm at the

00:30:28.839 --> 00:30:34.158
moment that uh particle physics not only

00:30:32.558 --> 00:30:35.440
particle physics but we said

00:30:34.159 --> 00:30:37.960
gravitational

00:30:35.440 --> 00:30:40.840
astronomy the the the exploration of the

00:30:37.960 --> 00:30:43.159
force of gravity black holes Quantum

00:30:40.839 --> 00:30:45.519
information which is related to Quantum

00:30:43.159 --> 00:30:48.399
Computing and also all that stuff is is

00:30:45.519 --> 00:30:51.319
to me utterly fascinating there's some

00:30:48.398 --> 00:30:53.199
really interesting I read some stuff the

00:30:51.319 --> 00:30:55.038
other day which I don't fully understand

00:30:53.200 --> 00:30:58.038
actually um some of the progress in

00:30:55.038 --> 00:31:01.119
string theory it's interesting because

00:30:58.038 --> 00:31:03.599
just as an decide it's linking it seems

00:31:01.119 --> 00:31:04.839
to me it's linking one of the great

00:31:03.599 --> 00:31:06.599
Mysteries which is the so-called

00:31:04.839 --> 00:31:09.038
cosmological constant so the fact that

00:31:06.599 --> 00:31:11.319
we observed that the universe is

00:31:09.038 --> 00:31:13.519
accelerating in its expansion and Nobel

00:31:11.319 --> 00:31:15.678
Prize has been given for the observation

00:31:13.519 --> 00:31:17.519
not for the understanding yes he a

00:31:15.679 --> 00:31:20.399
friend of mine who by the way didn't

00:31:17.519 --> 00:31:22.159
believe his he he didn't believe it when

00:31:20.398 --> 00:31:23.839
he saw it because it wasn't in the air

00:31:22.159 --> 00:31:27.600
this idea he was looking at light from

00:31:23.839 --> 00:31:29.879
Supernova super I'm on I'm on a paper

00:31:27.599 --> 00:31:32.719
with briyan Schmidt yeah I I'm like very

00:31:29.880 --> 00:31:34.200
minor author uh you have to scroll down

00:31:32.720 --> 00:31:36.600
and then like my name is in the super

00:31:34.200 --> 00:31:38.880
NOA yeah but it was it was it was

00:31:36.599 --> 00:31:41.038
analysis of high red ship supern noi

00:31:38.880 --> 00:31:42.679
yeah and I I totally enjoyed that work

00:31:41.038 --> 00:31:45.720
but he obviously went on and made an

00:31:42.679 --> 00:31:48.399
entire sort of yeah branch of his career

00:31:45.720 --> 00:31:50.399
on it so there's this remarkable idea

00:31:48.398 --> 00:31:53.239
that which comes from that which is

00:31:50.398 --> 00:31:55.278
which is in Einstein's theory this idea

00:31:53.240 --> 00:31:57.120
that you can you can have a kind of

00:31:55.278 --> 00:31:58.919
energy in the universe let's say or a

00:31:57.119 --> 00:32:00.638
thing whatever it is because we don't

00:31:58.919 --> 00:32:02.720
know what it is but something that makes

00:32:00.638 --> 00:32:06.240
the universe that the rate the the space

00:32:02.720 --> 00:32:08.079
stretches increase which is uh so that

00:32:06.240 --> 00:32:10.519
that's there and it's observed it's one

00:32:08.079 --> 00:32:14.240
of the great Mysteries because it's I

00:32:10.519 --> 00:32:17.159
think it's the smallest number in all of

00:32:14.240 --> 00:32:22.000
physics by what is it it's something

00:32:17.159 --> 00:32:24.039
like a 10 the^ minus 122 or something in

00:32:22.000 --> 00:32:26.398
appropriate units right which is

00:32:24.038 --> 00:32:29.960
absolutely ridiculously so so it's a

00:32:26.398 --> 00:32:33.518
tiny tiny tiny tiny thing that's causing

00:32:29.960 --> 00:32:35.558
this rate of expansion um but it's not

00:32:33.519 --> 00:32:37.638
zero and so the question becomes why is

00:32:35.558 --> 00:32:39.720
it tiny the the why is it tiny and not

00:32:37.638 --> 00:32:41.439
zero yeah yeah and and so because if it

00:32:39.720 --> 00:32:42.679
were even slightly bigger we wouldn't be

00:32:41.440 --> 00:32:45.399
here so the universe would have been

00:32:42.679 --> 00:32:48.000
blown apart so it seems very unusual but

00:32:45.398 --> 00:32:49.239
I I saw the other week or the other day

00:32:48.000 --> 00:32:52.200
actually that there's some research

00:32:49.240 --> 00:32:55.200
that's linking that in in a in a in the

00:32:52.200 --> 00:33:01.000
framework of a string theory uh or M

00:32:55.200 --> 00:33:02.240
Theory to uh matter so so so there

00:33:01.000 --> 00:33:05.519
there's a kind of an idea that if you

00:33:02.240 --> 00:33:08.359
fix that you get a prediction out that

00:33:05.519 --> 00:33:09.599
there should be um dark matter but it

00:33:08.359 --> 00:33:11.678
turns out it's to do with extra

00:33:09.599 --> 00:33:13.558
dimensions and gravitons in extra

00:33:11.679 --> 00:33:15.600
dimensions and things so it's it's quite

00:33:13.558 --> 00:33:17.319
but it's quite interesting so I think

00:33:15.599 --> 00:33:19.519
there there are some very interesting

00:33:17.319 --> 00:33:21.678
areas of string theory where progress is

00:33:19.519 --> 00:33:24.159
being made quite remarkably do string

00:33:21.679 --> 00:33:26.720
theorist need a fuller or better

00:33:24.159 --> 00:33:28.440
inventory of particles so for example

00:33:26.720 --> 00:33:31.159
are we still looking for a gravit

00:33:28.440 --> 00:33:32.639
are we still looking for you know every

00:33:31.159 --> 00:33:35.200
you shake a stick and there's a

00:33:32.638 --> 00:33:37.599
physicist proposing a hypothetical

00:33:35.200 --> 00:33:39.720
particle to explain Dark Matter to

00:33:37.599 --> 00:33:42.119
explain wouldn't it be cool if the Dark

00:33:39.720 --> 00:33:44.839
Matter were related to gravitons which

00:33:42.119 --> 00:33:47.038
is that this is not my field I only

00:33:44.839 --> 00:33:48.879
heard of it the other day but it sounded

00:33:47.038 --> 00:33:52.960
interesting but it just shows you that

00:33:48.880 --> 00:33:56.639
we so to go back the to to

00:33:52.960 --> 00:34:00.600
LHC um we have the higs particle as you

00:33:56.638 --> 00:34:02.199
said um we had expected I would say most

00:34:00.599 --> 00:34:04.278
particle physicists expected there would

00:34:02.200 --> 00:34:07.080
be other particles discovered there's a

00:34:04.278 --> 00:34:08.639
particular that same experiment yeah LC

00:34:07.079 --> 00:34:10.799
so there's a particular Theory which

00:34:08.639 --> 00:34:13.838
which motivated by String Theory a long

00:34:10.800 --> 00:34:16.800
time ago called super symmetry which is

00:34:13.838 --> 00:34:18.878
a a property of the universe we we we

00:34:16.800 --> 00:34:20.200
it's been around for many decades and it

00:34:18.878 --> 00:34:22.878
came initially

00:34:20.199 --> 00:34:24.598
from either from String Theory are from

00:34:22.878 --> 00:34:26.199
some other is it got Incorporated in I

00:34:24.599 --> 00:34:28.519
can't remember historically which way it

00:34:26.199 --> 00:34:30.480
came but it's um

00:34:28.519 --> 00:34:32.800
but it's it essentially predicts that

00:34:30.480 --> 00:34:34.838
there are double the number of particles

00:34:32.800 --> 00:34:37.760
that we see fundamental particles at

00:34:34.838 --> 00:34:39.559
this energy so so we and they would have

00:34:37.760 --> 00:34:41.720
been great candidates for dark matter by

00:34:39.559 --> 00:34:44.078
the way which is astrophysical

00:34:41.719 --> 00:34:45.959
Discovery so we should say I suppose the

00:34:44.079 --> 00:34:48.560
one the one sentence description the

00:34:45.960 --> 00:34:50.398
dark matter is that we see the the the

00:34:48.559 --> 00:34:52.480
universe there's far much more ma matter

00:34:50.398 --> 00:34:54.358
in the universe than we can see see I I

00:34:52.480 --> 00:34:58.199
would put it differently yeah I would

00:34:54.358 --> 00:35:01.440
say there's far it's not dark matter

00:34:58.199 --> 00:35:02.838
it's dark gravity well you say matter we

00:35:01.440 --> 00:35:04.240
don't know what we don't know what it is

00:35:02.838 --> 00:35:06.519
well true so so you see it through its

00:35:04.239 --> 00:35:09.039
gravitational inter so it's dark gravity

00:35:06.519 --> 00:35:12.320
yeah we don't see otherwise you get

00:35:09.039 --> 00:35:15.400
newspaper headlines say oh uh we must

00:35:12.320 --> 00:35:17.838
abandon our ideas of Dark Matter well if

00:35:15.400 --> 00:35:19.838
it's not matter it's still there okay

00:35:17.838 --> 00:35:22.078
it's misnamed yes I see what you mean I

00:35:19.838 --> 00:35:24.400
mean I I I that's a cool newspaper by

00:35:22.079 --> 00:35:25.640
the way that would have a headline like

00:35:24.400 --> 00:35:28.079
that it goes there at all she usually

00:35:25.639 --> 00:35:30.239
about a football player and so I'm on

00:35:28.079 --> 00:35:31.519
board with that newspaper yeah I'm just

00:35:30.239 --> 00:35:34.039
saying if we don't know what it is we

00:35:31.519 --> 00:35:35.759
had no business calling it matter at all

00:35:34.039 --> 00:35:38.358
so the thing to say though is dark

00:35:35.760 --> 00:35:40.079
Gravity the best which sounds cool so

00:35:38.358 --> 00:35:43.039
you build model you build models and it

00:35:40.079 --> 00:35:44.960
is true that the best model that fits

00:35:43.039 --> 00:35:47.079
all the data which is not just the way

00:35:44.960 --> 00:35:49.519
that gravit that that galaxies rotate

00:35:47.079 --> 00:35:52.280
and and Collide and and the way that

00:35:49.519 --> 00:35:54.400
gravities galaxies kind of lens light

00:35:52.280 --> 00:35:56.000
and all those things but also the cosmic

00:35:54.400 --> 00:35:57.920
microwave background radiation which is

00:35:56.000 --> 00:35:59.960
the oldest light in the universe and and

00:35:57.920 --> 00:36:01.280
how that worked and how the ripples the

00:35:59.960 --> 00:36:03.000
sound waves went through the early

00:36:01.280 --> 00:36:05.599
universe and all that you put it all

00:36:03.000 --> 00:36:09.400
together and and it it fits if you have

00:36:05.599 --> 00:36:12.838
a a light a lsh particle that does not

00:36:09.400 --> 00:36:15.160
interact with light but interacts weakly

00:36:12.838 --> 00:36:18.279
so this would be another category of

00:36:15.159 --> 00:36:20.480
particle in the particle soup yeah that

00:36:18.280 --> 00:36:22.839
has gravity but doesn't interact

00:36:20.480 --> 00:36:25.599
electromagnetically or only very weakly

00:36:22.838 --> 00:36:26.799
and so just it's all right so that

00:36:25.599 --> 00:36:28.680
that's a model though you're right so

00:36:26.800 --> 00:36:31.640
that's a model which is kind of I would

00:36:28.679 --> 00:36:33.559
said the Baseline model the people

00:36:31.639 --> 00:36:37.440
assume that and I don't have a problem

00:36:33.559 --> 00:36:39.838
with it but if anything happens to that

00:36:37.440 --> 00:36:41.720
model it gets shown it can't be true

00:36:39.838 --> 00:36:43.078
people oh then there is no dark matter

00:36:41.719 --> 00:36:45.039
no there's still dark it is a

00:36:43.079 --> 00:36:47.760
measurement in the universe we just

00:36:45.039 --> 00:36:50.559
misnamed it yeah I agree the measurement

00:36:47.760 --> 00:36:51.960
is just galaxies spin round too fast but

00:36:50.559 --> 00:36:54.318
too fast there it is or the way they

00:36:51.960 --> 00:36:56.159
Collide and and so on there's quite a

00:36:54.318 --> 00:36:58.159
lot of independent measurements of this

00:36:56.159 --> 00:36:59.920
thing so tell me about Gra I mean is

00:36:58.159 --> 00:37:01.639
that a real particle I think most

00:36:59.920 --> 00:37:05.159
physicists would say that quantum

00:37:01.639 --> 00:37:06.118
mechanics requires is is the base is the

00:37:05.159 --> 00:37:09.078
base

00:37:06.119 --> 00:37:10.960
Theory I think the reason I'm careful is

00:37:09.079 --> 00:37:12.720
because there is some people who would

00:37:10.960 --> 00:37:14.720
say general relativity is is a thing

00:37:12.719 --> 00:37:16.358
space time is a real thing and all that

00:37:14.719 --> 00:37:17.559
but but I think generally most people

00:37:16.358 --> 00:37:19.598
would say quantum mechanics is

00:37:17.559 --> 00:37:20.639
underlining and that that would if you

00:37:19.599 --> 00:37:23.000
have an interaction in other words

00:37:20.639 --> 00:37:25.039
quantum physics is foundational yeah to

00:37:23.000 --> 00:37:27.639
the universe in ways that even general

00:37:25.039 --> 00:37:29.519
relativity would not be yeah so we we

00:37:27.639 --> 00:37:33.199
talk about this later but the idea that

00:37:29.519 --> 00:37:36.119
space and time or space time emerge from

00:37:33.199 --> 00:37:38.118
a quantum theory is very fashionable at

00:37:36.119 --> 00:37:39.599
the moment partly because of the study

00:37:38.119 --> 00:37:43.480
of black holes so we could talk about

00:37:39.599 --> 00:37:45.440
that but so so given that then you so I

00:37:43.480 --> 00:37:47.318
I should say just for people who are

00:37:45.440 --> 00:37:49.358
watching and listening that um so how

00:37:47.318 --> 00:37:51.960
would we picture the electromagnetic

00:37:49.358 --> 00:37:53.598
force in particle physics so you know

00:37:51.960 --> 00:37:56.039
that if you put like charges together

00:37:53.599 --> 00:37:58.599
they repel and and so on so so what's

00:37:56.039 --> 00:37:59.920
happening there or if you bring magnets

00:37:58.599 --> 00:38:01.640
together right they repel each other

00:37:59.920 --> 00:38:03.200
everybody knows if the North Pole

00:38:01.639 --> 00:38:06.000
together and they repel so what's

00:38:03.199 --> 00:38:08.239
happening in particle physics terms you

00:38:06.000 --> 00:38:11.039
you picture that as the exchange of a

00:38:08.239 --> 00:38:12.719
photon it's a particle of light goes

00:38:11.039 --> 00:38:15.279
from one particle to the other and

00:38:12.719 --> 00:38:17.078
essentially carries the force so that's

00:38:15.280 --> 00:38:22.040
that's what our particle physicist would

00:38:17.079 --> 00:38:24.480
picture a that force all forces have we

00:38:22.039 --> 00:38:28.159
successfully applied that to gravity no

00:38:24.480 --> 00:38:31.119
so that's the point so so so so but you

00:38:28.159 --> 00:38:32.598
the give me a more resonant no the very

00:38:31.119 --> 00:38:34.960
the very

00:38:32.599 --> 00:38:36.720
strong I suppose I'm trying to find the

00:38:34.960 --> 00:38:38.599
right word for it I think it's that's

00:38:36.719 --> 00:38:39.838
why I said conviction it's almost I

00:38:38.599 --> 00:38:41.519
don't know if any physicists who would

00:38:39.838 --> 00:38:45.559
disagree with because if you can't fold

00:38:41.519 --> 00:38:47.318
it into the quantum world you don't

00:38:45.559 --> 00:38:49.358
really have a right to start looking for

00:38:47.318 --> 00:38:51.599
a graviton because you're going to say

00:38:49.358 --> 00:38:53.199
the graviton is the mediating particle

00:38:51.599 --> 00:38:56.800
yes so it's the way the photon is the

00:38:53.199 --> 00:38:58.000
med particle so and that's um I I think

00:38:56.800 --> 00:39:00.599
I don't think you'd find anyone who

00:38:58.000 --> 00:39:03.079
would disagree with that statement okay

00:39:00.599 --> 00:39:05.559
although I don't think you would

00:39:03.079 --> 00:39:07.599
although it is true to say that because

00:39:05.559 --> 00:39:10.400
gravity is so weak so this is the other

00:39:07.599 --> 00:39:12.838
thing to say it is tremendously weak

00:39:10.400 --> 00:39:14.800
compared to the other three forces of

00:39:12.838 --> 00:39:16.000
nature of which electrom magnetism is

00:39:14.800 --> 00:39:17.920
one here I tell people you've surely

00:39:16.000 --> 00:39:20.199
done this in class they say how weak is

00:39:17.920 --> 00:39:22.760
gravity well I can pick something up off

00:39:20.199 --> 00:39:24.679
the floor against the wishes of Earth

00:39:22.760 --> 00:39:27.079
exactly yeah yeah the whole earth is

00:39:24.679 --> 00:39:29.879
pulling on this ball and I can just pick

00:39:27.079 --> 00:39:31.640
it up off and and kick kick it and

00:39:29.880 --> 00:39:33.119
you're using electromagnetism that's

00:39:31.639 --> 00:39:34.279
what's happening so your muscles and all

00:39:33.119 --> 00:39:36.160
that thing so this is all

00:39:34.280 --> 00:39:37.880
electromagnetic force which completely

00:39:36.159 --> 00:39:42.159
destroys as you said the gravitational

00:39:37.880 --> 00:39:44.079
force um but gravity is only additive so

00:39:42.159 --> 00:39:46.838
it only adds up in the universe so is a

00:39:44.079 --> 00:39:49.000
do is the dominant force on Cosmic

00:39:46.838 --> 00:39:50.759
distance scales that's the point about

00:39:49.000 --> 00:39:53.599
gravity here's a calculation I haven't

00:39:50.760 --> 00:39:55.960
verified but it sounded legit uh very

00:39:53.599 --> 00:39:58.200
verifiable I just never I was too lazy

00:39:55.960 --> 00:40:00.760
that uh if you take like the space

00:39:58.199 --> 00:40:04.799
shuttle in its Glory Days and you take

00:40:00.760 --> 00:40:09.200
one remove the electrons from one cubic

00:40:04.800 --> 00:40:11.119
centimeter in the nose of the main tank

00:40:09.199 --> 00:40:13.960
and take all those electrons and put it

00:40:11.119 --> 00:40:15.519
at the base of the Launchpad it could

00:40:13.960 --> 00:40:17.720
would not be able to launch the

00:40:15.519 --> 00:40:19.679
attraction between the electrons at the

00:40:17.719 --> 00:40:21.598
base of the launch pad and the net

00:40:19.679 --> 00:40:24.118
positive charge at the top right yeah is

00:40:21.599 --> 00:40:26.039
enough to prevent it from launching yeah

00:40:24.119 --> 00:40:29.318
that's a cool idea I could see that that

00:40:26.039 --> 00:40:32.639
would be yeah yeah actually would yeah

00:40:29.318 --> 00:40:36.400
borrow a whole so it probably yeah it's

00:40:32.639 --> 00:40:38.239
not a realistic experiment but to get

00:40:36.400 --> 00:40:39.720
some sense of the forces involved yeah

00:40:38.239 --> 00:40:41.399
that's a really nice okay so gravity is

00:40:39.719 --> 00:40:43.000
weak that somehow bails you out of this

00:40:41.400 --> 00:40:45.440
problem well it just means that you

00:40:43.000 --> 00:40:48.318
can't we don't have experimental access

00:40:45.440 --> 00:40:50.599
to them okay because it's so weak I

00:40:48.318 --> 00:40:54.039
agree so whereas we do have experimental

00:40:50.599 --> 00:40:57.318
access to photons yeah unless you could

00:40:54.039 --> 00:40:59.279
potentially have access if there were

00:40:57.318 --> 00:41:01.079
extra dimensions in the universe that

00:40:59.280 --> 00:41:02.599
are configured in the right way

00:41:01.079 --> 00:41:05.240
physicist always throwing in extra

00:41:02.599 --> 00:41:06.640
Dimensions whenever you need it you know

00:41:05.239 --> 00:41:10.679
it is interesting though that that

00:41:06.639 --> 00:41:14.078
string theory Works in 10 dimensions and

00:41:10.679 --> 00:41:16.639
only 10 Dimensions mathematically so

00:41:14.079 --> 00:41:18.318
that's um an interesting observation

00:41:16.639 --> 00:41:21.039
right so I don't I don't I don't have

00:41:18.318 --> 00:41:24.199
the background to be an authentic drink

00:41:21.039 --> 00:41:27.639
Theory skeptic but I know physicists who

00:41:24.199 --> 00:41:29.318
are and so I don't yeah I think there I

00:41:27.639 --> 00:41:31.480
mean it depends I think it depends what

00:41:29.318 --> 00:41:34.079
you mean by String Theory I mean there

00:41:31.480 --> 00:41:35.960
was that if you go back you know a few

00:41:34.079 --> 00:41:37.960
decades you talk to Brian Green for

00:41:35.960 --> 00:41:39.240
example and when he started working in

00:41:37.960 --> 00:41:40.838
this area he would he's a friend of Star

00:41:39.239 --> 00:41:43.000
Talk he been onest several times he

00:41:40.838 --> 00:41:44.838
would have um it's great but the elegant

00:41:43.000 --> 00:41:46.920
universe is a beautiful description of

00:41:44.838 --> 00:41:48.400
string theory and and so I think the

00:41:46.920 --> 00:41:50.200
idea initially with the Hope was that

00:41:48.400 --> 00:41:52.039
you'd have a theory and you could write

00:41:50.199 --> 00:41:53.679
it down it's a theory of everything and

00:41:52.039 --> 00:41:55.559
it would predict the universe as we see

00:41:53.679 --> 00:41:59.440
it and then you go home and done and I

00:41:55.559 --> 00:42:02.920
think that's gone as a as an idea but

00:41:59.440 --> 00:42:04.599
the the the the basic idea of these I

00:42:02.920 --> 00:42:06.720
mean why is it called string theory is

00:42:04.599 --> 00:42:08.880
because particles are not point likee

00:42:06.719 --> 00:42:12.519
the these strings are like little string

00:42:08.880 --> 00:42:15.318
little loops and and but that idea I

00:42:12.519 --> 00:42:17.838
think is still at the foundation of most

00:42:15.318 --> 00:42:20.639
modern theoretical physics in this area

00:42:17.838 --> 00:42:22.119
but it's got much more complicated and

00:42:20.639 --> 00:42:23.639
it's been much harder I think the

00:42:22.119 --> 00:42:25.760
initial idea that you could just predict

00:42:23.639 --> 00:42:27.799
everything from one number maybe has

00:42:25.760 --> 00:42:30.200
gone away one simple equation on one

00:42:27.800 --> 00:42:33.240
line but there is tremendous progress

00:42:30.199 --> 00:42:35.039
being made in in string theory so it's

00:42:33.239 --> 00:42:36.879
it's it's not gone away it's just become

00:42:35.039 --> 00:42:39.440
more complicated I would say well thanks

00:42:36.880 --> 00:42:41.000
for catching me up on this I at this

00:42:39.440 --> 00:42:43.000
conference you're giving a a talk on

00:42:41.000 --> 00:42:44.719
black holes yeah and there was some

00:42:43.000 --> 00:42:47.400
recent announcement the biggest jet from

00:42:44.719 --> 00:42:52.759
a black hole ever discovered ever yeah

00:42:47.400 --> 00:42:55.358
ever uh I I when I was asked about it by

00:42:52.760 --> 00:42:57.359
the Press I simply said there's always a

00:42:55.358 --> 00:43:02.719
biggest jet in the universe and so now

00:42:57.358 --> 00:43:07.119
this one is that the A380 okay airb A380

00:43:02.719 --> 00:43:10.879
it's a fantastic a did I under sell the

00:43:07.119 --> 00:43:12.519
significance of this huge jet so what if

00:43:10.880 --> 00:43:14.440
it's the biggest one unless there's some

00:43:12.519 --> 00:43:17.480
interesting physics that's coming out of

00:43:14.440 --> 00:43:19.480
it the area that I have I share a PhD

00:43:17.480 --> 00:43:20.880
student who's working in the area is

00:43:19.480 --> 00:43:22.240
more is more theoretical it's about

00:43:20.880 --> 00:43:24.760
Quantum information the way the

00:43:22.239 --> 00:43:26.838
information behaves inside and outside

00:43:24.760 --> 00:43:29.040
of black hole what happens to things

00:43:26.838 --> 00:43:32.759
that fall in but um in terms of the

00:43:29.039 --> 00:43:35.358
astrophysical work that if you go back

00:43:32.760 --> 00:43:38.599
you know not long ago we didn't really

00:43:35.358 --> 00:43:40.719
have any observation of how uh things

00:43:38.599 --> 00:43:42.440
behave in the vicinity of black holes

00:43:40.719 --> 00:43:44.118
and so I would put it in that box we've

00:43:42.440 --> 00:43:45.880
got several observations now we've got

00:43:44.119 --> 00:43:47.920
the radio telescope observations from

00:43:45.880 --> 00:43:49.599
The Event Horizon collaboration that are

00:43:47.920 --> 00:43:51.680
shown us how the magnetic fields work

00:43:49.599 --> 00:43:53.280
for example around the the the black

00:43:51.679 --> 00:43:55.399
hole in the Milky Way we've got these

00:43:53.280 --> 00:43:57.480
Jets which are giving you access to the

00:43:55.400 --> 00:43:58.838
magnetic structure presumably in the way

00:43:57.480 --> 00:44:00.880
that they thank you for putting it in

00:43:58.838 --> 00:44:03.279
that context now I can understand it

00:44:00.880 --> 00:44:04.880
broadens the astrophysical data set yeah

00:44:03.280 --> 00:44:07.480
on which we

00:44:04.880 --> 00:44:08.440
can sharpen our hypotheses for what's

00:44:07.480 --> 00:44:10.240
going on yeah because they're hard

00:44:08.440 --> 00:44:12.039
things to observe and of course you

00:44:10.239 --> 00:44:13.118
can't observe the interior because it's

00:44:12.039 --> 00:44:15.800
inside this thing called The Event

00:44:13.119 --> 00:44:18.039
Horizon but what you can do and we are

00:44:15.800 --> 00:44:21.440
doing is observe the way that material

00:44:18.039 --> 00:44:23.558
behaves in the vicinity of them or what

00:44:21.440 --> 00:44:24.720
the other remarkable thing we've been

00:44:23.559 --> 00:44:27.119
able to do in the last few years is

00:44:24.719 --> 00:44:29.318
watch them Collide and see how the

00:44:27.119 --> 00:44:31.240
ripples in the fabric of the universe

00:44:29.318 --> 00:44:33.800
come out and we can detect those ripples

00:44:31.239 --> 00:44:36.639
so all these things are allowing us to

00:44:33.800 --> 00:44:39.599
probe these objects by and it's worth

00:44:36.639 --> 00:44:40.799
remembering that they were present they

00:44:39.599 --> 00:44:43.680
were

00:44:40.800 --> 00:44:46.519
described um non-spinning ones were

00:44:43.679 --> 00:44:48.639
described fully by the work that Carl

00:44:46.519 --> 00:44:51.639
swell did in in

00:44:48.639 --> 00:44:52.719
1916 so months after Einstein had

00:44:51.639 --> 00:44:55.159
published the theory of general

00:44:52.719 --> 00:44:57.039
relativity he didn't know it at the time

00:44:55.159 --> 00:44:59.838
but his the the mathematical descrip

00:44:57.039 --> 00:45:01.558
description he found which describes how

00:44:59.838 --> 00:45:04.838
space and time are distorted in the

00:45:01.559 --> 00:45:07.480
presence of a star a non-spinning star

00:45:04.838 --> 00:45:09.440
is kind of important um those those

00:45:07.480 --> 00:45:12.000
fully describe a black hole that isn't

00:45:09.440 --> 00:45:13.519
spinning remember correctly uh he would

00:45:12.000 --> 00:45:15.119
die in the first World War I don't think

00:45:13.519 --> 00:45:19.079
he made it out of the war no he died in

00:45:15.119 --> 00:45:21.000
1916 so shortly after not not in action

00:45:19.079 --> 00:45:23.880
he not in action okay I think he died

00:45:21.000 --> 00:45:27.199
from dis diseases that it was on the

00:45:23.880 --> 00:45:29.559
Russian front okay it was yeah so War

00:45:27.199 --> 00:45:31.919
related but not I think it was you would

00:45:29.559 --> 00:45:34.280
argue War related uh yeah so we've got

00:45:31.920 --> 00:45:35.920
you know more than a century of

00:45:34.280 --> 00:45:38.559
mathematical foundation for this yeah

00:45:35.920 --> 00:45:40.720
and then you go forward to with no data

00:45:38.559 --> 00:45:42.400
no data no and then then then so it

00:45:40.719 --> 00:45:43.759
takes another 50 years by the way for

00:45:42.400 --> 00:45:46.200
someone to work out what it looks like

00:45:43.760 --> 00:45:50.079
for a spinning one which is Roy Kerr

00:45:46.199 --> 00:45:52.358
it's a famous ker solution but those two

00:45:50.079 --> 00:45:55.839
solutions there they're in Einstein's

00:45:52.358 --> 00:45:59.318
theory in some in a sense um and they

00:45:55.838 --> 00:46:01.318
describe the black ho but um observing

00:45:59.318 --> 00:46:03.639
them is something that we haven't been

00:46:01.318 --> 00:46:05.599
able to do till recently so so in

00:46:03.639 --> 00:46:07.118
multi-wave lengths as well yeah so so

00:46:05.599 --> 00:46:09.079
now we have radio observations the

00:46:07.119 --> 00:46:11.720
gravitational wave observations I'll

00:46:09.079 --> 00:46:14.039
I'll be a little kinder to that well

00:46:11.719 --> 00:46:16.558
because it's the way the thing is you as

00:46:14.039 --> 00:46:19.400
you said right at the start science is

00:46:16.559 --> 00:46:21.480
about yes having ideas building theories

00:46:19.400 --> 00:46:23.160
and so on but it's it's really

00:46:21.480 --> 00:46:25.559
fundamentally about testing those

00:46:23.159 --> 00:46:27.519
theories yeah and so we can talk about

00:46:25.559 --> 00:46:30.800
these theoretical object Jacks black

00:46:27.519 --> 00:46:32.719
holes but really and they are rich

00:46:30.800 --> 00:46:34.480
theoretically But ultimately you've got

00:46:32.719 --> 00:46:36.399
to make observations and that's where

00:46:34.480 --> 00:46:37.639
these Jets and and seeing how material

00:46:36.400 --> 00:46:39.318
behaves it gives you access to the

00:46:37.639 --> 00:46:41.239
magnetic fields and how the thing's

00:46:39.318 --> 00:46:44.079
spinning and what it's that that's

00:46:41.239 --> 00:46:46.598
important hey Star Talk fans I don't

00:46:44.079 --> 00:46:49.920
know if you know this but the audio

00:46:46.599 --> 00:46:53.240
version of the podcast actually posts a

00:46:49.920 --> 00:46:56.079
week in advance of the video version and

00:46:53.239 --> 00:46:57.598
you can get that in Spotify and apple

00:46:56.079 --> 00:47:00.480
podcast and

00:46:57.599 --> 00:47:04.000
most other podcast Outlets that are out

00:47:00.480 --> 00:47:06.599
there multiple ways to ingest all that

00:47:04.000 --> 00:47:10.000
is Cosmic on Star talk let's talk about

00:47:06.599 --> 00:47:11.400
your work with the public you you said

00:47:10.000 --> 00:47:16.280
earlier

00:47:11.400 --> 00:47:19.680
you you share this commitment that binan

00:47:16.280 --> 00:47:22.319
declared duty to bring science to the

00:47:19.679 --> 00:47:24.598
public you you don't you not only talk

00:47:22.318 --> 00:47:27.119
the talk you walk the walk and you have

00:47:24.599 --> 00:47:29.559
spillage everywhere you know you get

00:47:27.119 --> 00:47:33.480
given tours Public tours in in in

00:47:29.559 --> 00:47:35.280
Australia across Europe uh and if I

00:47:33.480 --> 00:47:37.280
remember correctly you're coming back to

00:47:35.280 --> 00:47:39.040
the United States next spring to give a

00:47:37.280 --> 00:47:41.319
tour across the country yeah yeah it's a

00:47:39.039 --> 00:47:43.079
tour that um that that's been going on

00:47:41.318 --> 00:47:44.558
for quite a long time it wasn't meant to

00:47:43.079 --> 00:47:48.039
really but we've ended

00:47:44.559 --> 00:47:49.760
up playing to over 400,000 people across

00:47:48.039 --> 00:47:51.800
the world with this tour wait wait wait

00:47:49.760 --> 00:47:54.200
you're not a musician you say playing

00:47:51.800 --> 00:47:57.480
get your vocabulary I'm look I'm rock

00:47:54.199 --> 00:47:58.719
and roll basically I always been so when

00:47:57.480 --> 00:48:01.760
when

00:47:58.719 --> 00:48:03.639
we we have five trucks and two tour

00:48:01.760 --> 00:48:05.440
buses it's brilliant so I'm reliving My

00:48:03.639 --> 00:48:06.920
Life as a so did I see a version of that

00:48:05.440 --> 00:48:08.599
when you came to the city yeah it was

00:48:06.920 --> 00:48:10.079
very early on just after it was just

00:48:08.599 --> 00:48:13.960
after yeah you have these screens that

00:48:10.079 --> 00:48:16.039
interlock and then the whole stage is is

00:48:13.960 --> 00:48:18.358
yeah and that was a very early iteration

00:48:16.039 --> 00:48:20.960
of this and so it's changed a lot before

00:48:18.358 --> 00:48:22.838
I laid it to rest this tour and develop

00:48:20.960 --> 00:48:25.400
another one I wanted to bring it back

00:48:22.838 --> 00:48:27.480
here in the form that it is now which is

00:48:25.400 --> 00:48:30.400
so radically different from what and and

00:48:27.480 --> 00:48:33.599
it's you celebrating the universe with

00:48:30.400 --> 00:48:36.280
and for the it is and the public it also

00:48:33.599 --> 00:48:38.599
morphed into there's a version that I do

00:48:36.280 --> 00:48:40.920
with the symphony orchestra which is

00:48:38.599 --> 00:48:43.720
great fun so we did it at Sydney offer

00:48:40.920 --> 00:48:46.440
house actually initially um last year

00:48:43.719 --> 00:48:48.199
and it's a big Orchestra because it's 90

00:48:46.440 --> 00:48:52.599
piece Symphony Orchestra because of the

00:48:48.199 --> 00:48:55.639
music that that I chose and so the The

00:48:52.599 --> 00:48:57.640
Reason by the way as a slight digression

00:48:55.639 --> 00:48:59.118
it's part of this tour the classical

00:48:57.639 --> 00:49:01.358
music is a big part of the tour so it

00:48:59.119 --> 00:49:02.559
starts with calus's Fifth Symphony third

00:49:01.358 --> 00:49:03.880
movement and that was because a

00:49:02.559 --> 00:49:05.559
conductor friend of mine called Daniel

00:49:03.880 --> 00:49:08.200
Harding I said to him what should

00:49:05.559 --> 00:49:10.280
Stanley cubric have used in 2001 as a

00:49:08.199 --> 00:49:12.318
joke like what should he have used we

00:49:10.280 --> 00:49:15.880
immediately said seus Fifth Symphony and

00:49:12.318 --> 00:49:17.279
it is it was written in 19 uh 15 same

00:49:15.880 --> 00:49:19.720
year that general relativity was

00:49:17.280 --> 00:49:21.440
published but it's the basis of almost

00:49:19.719 --> 00:49:25.078
every science fiction theme you've ever

00:49:21.440 --> 00:49:27.400
heard you hear it's beautiful and and uh

00:49:25.079 --> 00:49:28.960
so the idea

00:49:27.400 --> 00:49:30.880
which I've always strongly believed but

00:49:28.960 --> 00:49:33.159
it came to my mind as I was doing this

00:49:30.880 --> 00:49:34.920
tour is that what what if we're talking

00:49:33.159 --> 00:49:37.879
about deeper philosophical questions

00:49:34.920 --> 00:49:40.000
which are raised by cosmology I say

00:49:37.880 --> 00:49:41.760
right at the start what does it mean to

00:49:40.000 --> 00:49:43.880
live a finite fragile life in an

00:49:41.760 --> 00:49:46.040
infinite Eternal Universe right is it

00:49:43.880 --> 00:49:47.000
because it and and I say of course I

00:49:46.039 --> 00:49:49.440
don't know the answer to that do that

00:49:47.000 --> 00:49:51.719
uplift people or depress them well but

00:49:49.440 --> 00:49:53.798
but it's that as you know the moment you

00:49:51.719 --> 00:49:55.118
contemplate the Scale of the Universe

00:49:53.798 --> 00:49:57.000
and I should say we don't know whether

00:49:55.119 --> 00:49:58.798
it's infinite we don't know whether it's

00:49:57.000 --> 00:50:01.280
Eternal right but but it could well be

00:49:58.798 --> 00:50:03.759
infinite and eternal for all purposes it

00:50:01.280 --> 00:50:06.240
kind of is right on a human to a human

00:50:03.760 --> 00:50:08.240
scale yeah so so the immediately when

00:50:06.239 --> 00:50:10.358
you contemplate the size and scale of

00:50:08.239 --> 00:50:13.838
the universe you ask questions about our

00:50:10.358 --> 00:50:15.639
place and quite vividly what does it

00:50:13.838 --> 00:50:19.239
mean to live these little finite fragile

00:50:15.639 --> 00:50:21.318
lives and so I think I try to approach

00:50:19.239 --> 00:50:23.719
those questions and you realize or I

00:50:21.318 --> 00:50:25.838
realize that there are other lights you

00:50:23.719 --> 00:50:28.078
can shine on that problem and science is

00:50:25.838 --> 00:50:30.400
a necessary bright and Vivid light that

00:50:28.079 --> 00:50:32.200
casts a very well delineated Shadow

00:50:30.400 --> 00:50:34.920
which is given us some obviously it's

00:50:32.199 --> 00:50:37.318
the framework within which we operate

00:50:34.920 --> 00:50:39.559
but there are other lights so I you

00:50:37.318 --> 00:50:42.279
realize that Mara for example so we use

00:50:39.559 --> 00:50:44.160
Mara in in the classical concerts Mara

00:50:42.280 --> 00:50:46.680
thought a lot about what it means to

00:50:44.159 --> 00:50:49.159
live a finite fragile life and he gave a

00:50:46.679 --> 00:50:50.798
very eloquent answer many eloquent

00:50:49.159 --> 00:50:52.798
answers in his Symphonies and he was

00:50:50.798 --> 00:50:54.280
once asked by the way uh what what are

00:50:52.798 --> 00:50:56.119
you trying to say what what's this

00:50:54.280 --> 00:50:57.200
answer and he said well if I if I could

00:50:56.119 --> 00:50:59.640
say it I would wouldn't have written the

00:50:57.199 --> 00:51:02.598
music good answer you have this music

00:50:59.639 --> 00:51:04.960
love that so so the music so the

00:51:02.599 --> 00:51:06.838
composers that I chose and that part

00:51:04.960 --> 00:51:10.480
they are in the the tour that we're

00:51:06.838 --> 00:51:14.440
going to do NE this coming year NE next

00:51:10.480 --> 00:51:16.079
April 2025 um they're in there as music

00:51:14.440 --> 00:51:18.440
the the composers were chosen because

00:51:16.079 --> 00:51:21.680
they explored this question and gave

00:51:18.440 --> 00:51:24.200
very eloquent answers the the so so it's

00:51:21.679 --> 00:51:26.000
it adds to I think the more

00:51:24.199 --> 00:51:27.960
philosophical exploration of the

00:51:26.000 --> 00:51:29.639
questions that raised by the signs

00:51:27.960 --> 00:51:32.358
what's the name of the tour called

00:51:29.639 --> 00:51:34.480
Horizons Horizons that's easy enough to

00:51:32.358 --> 00:51:35.719
remember okay very cool but there's a

00:51:34.480 --> 00:51:38.240
lot of black holes in it as well I

00:51:35.719 --> 00:51:40.358
should say so it's an exploration of of

00:51:38.239 --> 00:51:42.279
the ideas that I find black is a horizon

00:51:40.358 --> 00:51:44.239
of its own they have Horizons yes but

00:51:42.280 --> 00:51:46.880
but but also life in the universe the

00:51:44.239 --> 00:51:48.519
origin evolution of Life speculations on

00:51:46.880 --> 00:51:51.599
we could talk about speculations on how

00:51:48.519 --> 00:51:53.239
many civilizations there might be as a

00:51:51.599 --> 00:51:56.200
guest well this thing about life in the

00:51:53.239 --> 00:51:57.879
universe you've done many many uh TV

00:51:56.199 --> 00:52:00.639
series

00:51:57.880 --> 00:52:04.559
and most recently one on the solar

00:52:00.639 --> 00:52:07.000
system yeah where the search for life is

00:52:04.559 --> 00:52:08.599
a main theme well yeah we just saw as we

00:52:07.000 --> 00:52:10.519
speak last week the Europa Clipper

00:52:08.599 --> 00:52:13.280
spacecraft was launched yes on the way

00:52:10.519 --> 00:52:14.679
to Europa we have an entire show devoted

00:52:13.280 --> 00:52:17.160
just to that we visited the jet

00:52:14.679 --> 00:52:19.118
propulsion labs and saw felt the

00:52:17.159 --> 00:52:20.798
excitement of everyone there it's great

00:52:19.119 --> 00:52:23.599
isn't it it's the first spacecraft I've

00:52:20.798 --> 00:52:25.679
seen major spacecraft being built so I

00:52:23.599 --> 00:52:27.119
saw the Clipper and the thing is the

00:52:25.679 --> 00:52:28.719
scale of that thing it's it's the

00:52:27.119 --> 00:52:31.960
largest spacecraft isn't it that's ever

00:52:28.719 --> 00:52:34.639
been sent into well if you add the so

00:52:31.960 --> 00:52:36.519
the most massive here's it may be but

00:52:34.639 --> 00:52:38.719
there's another important fact solar

00:52:36.519 --> 00:52:40.679
panels have gotten more efficient in the

00:52:38.719 --> 00:52:43.439
day back if you were going to explore

00:52:40.679 --> 00:52:45.239
beyond the asteroid belt you couldn't

00:52:43.440 --> 00:52:47.599
use solar panels the intensity of the

00:52:45.239 --> 00:52:50.519
sun wasn't high enough this one has a

00:52:47.599 --> 00:52:52.240
very Deployable large solar panel

00:52:50.519 --> 00:52:55.280
that'll help it along without having to

00:52:52.239 --> 00:52:57.358
rely entirely on the on the nuclear

00:52:55.280 --> 00:53:00.400
Decay PL

00:52:57.358 --> 00:53:04.598
yeah so it's a huge spacecraft and the

00:53:00.400 --> 00:53:06.960
point is that Europa Jupiter's moon is a

00:53:04.599 --> 00:53:10.599
prime candidate for for a habitable

00:53:06.960 --> 00:53:12.480
world in the what we know almost

00:53:10.599 --> 00:53:14.798
certainly I'm always the people who I

00:53:12.480 --> 00:53:17.519
know work on the mission say don't say

00:53:14.798 --> 00:53:19.199
we know we we're almost sure there's a

00:53:17.519 --> 00:53:21.358
saltwater ocean below the surface I

00:53:19.199 --> 00:53:23.118
think it's pretty indisputable now so

00:53:21.358 --> 00:53:25.239
pretty sure it's there yeah but whatever

00:53:23.119 --> 00:53:27.640
is the skepticism what would it be were

00:53:25.239 --> 00:53:29.078
it not a glal ocean yeah it's very

00:53:27.639 --> 00:53:31.199
difficult to because and that's from

00:53:29.079 --> 00:53:33.318
many measurements made amonia I mean

00:53:31.199 --> 00:53:37.199
there's not you know water molecule is

00:53:33.318 --> 00:53:38.558
not rare yeah it looks like salt water

00:53:37.199 --> 00:53:41.919
yeah and and we have a lot of

00:53:38.559 --> 00:53:44.559
comparative planetology with is it the

00:53:41.920 --> 00:53:46.720
Arctic when it freezes over you have

00:53:44.559 --> 00:53:49.400
these chunks of ice that will break and

00:53:46.719 --> 00:53:50.838
refreeze and readjust and and you can

00:53:49.400 --> 00:53:52.880
compare the images and you'd think you

00:53:50.838 --> 00:53:55.719
were looking at the frozen Arctic yeah

00:53:52.880 --> 00:53:57.280
yeah so it it looks and there's more

00:53:55.719 --> 00:53:58.439
water in that ocean

00:53:57.280 --> 00:54:01.440
than all the oceans of the earth

00:53:58.440 --> 00:54:03.679
combined geologically active there are

00:54:01.440 --> 00:54:05.318
questions about how the ice cracks and

00:54:03.679 --> 00:54:07.078
moves on the surface so it's a

00:54:05.318 --> 00:54:08.599
fascinating Mission so that's Europa

00:54:07.079 --> 00:54:11.200
Mars of course which You' probably

00:54:08.599 --> 00:54:13.240
spoken about many times on this podcast

00:54:11.199 --> 00:54:16.239
um Enceladus is another one Saturn's

00:54:13.239 --> 00:54:20.239
moon even even out of Pluto I even the

00:54:16.239 --> 00:54:22.118
ones we see the plumes of of geysers I

00:54:20.239 --> 00:54:24.479
guess yeah yeah when at the right Sun

00:54:22.119 --> 00:54:27.240
angle you can see who who took those

00:54:24.480 --> 00:54:29.358
pictures that must must have been right

00:54:27.239 --> 00:54:31.399
right right yeah so and also there's

00:54:29.358 --> 00:54:34.598
some measurements from Cassini the

00:54:31.400 --> 00:54:37.318
particles in those Jets of water which

00:54:34.599 --> 00:54:39.519
are consistent with hydrothermal vent

00:54:37.318 --> 00:54:42.519
activity on the floors and hydrothermal

00:54:39.519 --> 00:54:43.880
vents are one of the plausible

00:54:42.519 --> 00:54:46.239
candidates for the origin of life on

00:54:43.880 --> 00:54:49.280
Earth yes so you seem to have everything

00:54:46.239 --> 00:54:51.879
the one thing I think europa's got that

00:54:49.280 --> 00:54:53.480
arguably nowhere else has is it looks

00:54:51.880 --> 00:54:55.720
like that ocean has been there for many

00:54:53.480 --> 00:54:58.400
billions of years that's the the

00:54:55.719 --> 00:55:00.439
Baseline scenario and we evolve life in

00:54:58.400 --> 00:55:03.720
less time than that here on Earth yeah

00:55:00.440 --> 00:55:06.159
yeah present what 3.8 billion years ago

00:55:03.719 --> 00:55:08.000
3.8 yeah yeah and the the other four and

00:55:06.159 --> 00:55:09.440
a half billion years old so right yes so

00:55:08.000 --> 00:55:11.719
so it looks like you have a habitat

00:55:09.440 --> 00:55:13.838
that's been stable there and I think you

00:55:11.719 --> 00:55:15.318
can't CL that with in fact you know it

00:55:13.838 --> 00:55:17.960
was taught that it took about a half a

00:55:15.318 --> 00:55:20.159
billion years on Earth to get life going

00:55:17.960 --> 00:55:23.119
but we were able to revise that number

00:55:20.159 --> 00:55:25.440
down because in the early Earth these

00:55:23.119 --> 00:55:27.559
periods of heavy bombardment it's not

00:55:25.440 --> 00:55:29.480
fair to start the clock while we're

00:55:27.559 --> 00:55:31.880
still getting slammed by you know still

00:55:29.480 --> 00:55:33.760
accreting leftover rocks from the solar

00:55:31.880 --> 00:55:35.920
system as the temperature of the surface

00:55:33.760 --> 00:55:38.039
of the Earth is high enough to prevent

00:55:35.920 --> 00:55:41.000
complex molecules give us a chance

00:55:38.039 --> 00:55:44.039
please so the the periods of bombardment

00:55:41.000 --> 00:55:46.079
subside Earth surface cools now start

00:55:44.039 --> 00:55:48.640
the clock and then it's about 100 100

00:55:46.079 --> 00:55:51.280
million years yeah yeah so that's like

00:55:48.639 --> 00:55:53.480
that yeah which is one of the reasons I

00:55:51.280 --> 00:55:55.880
think that I think if you speak to many

00:55:53.480 --> 00:55:58.639
biologists they would say that might

00:55:55.880 --> 00:56:00.838
suggest that given the right conditions

00:55:58.639 --> 00:56:02.639
then whatever the origin of life is

00:56:00.838 --> 00:56:04.440
there's a reasonable probability given

00:56:02.639 --> 00:56:06.558
the right conditions because it happened

00:56:04.440 --> 00:56:08.480
quickly here right so but that now

00:56:06.559 --> 00:56:11.319
that's not that's not definitive in any

00:56:08.480 --> 00:56:13.039
sense but certainly tempting to go there

00:56:11.318 --> 00:56:15.759
but then but what I find very

00:56:13.039 --> 00:56:17.599
interesting then is though when you ask

00:56:15.760 --> 00:56:20.559
okay but when did life get more complex

00:56:17.599 --> 00:56:21.760
than a single cell you're you're then I

00:56:20.559 --> 00:56:23.798
don't think there's any evidence in the

00:56:21.760 --> 00:56:25.640
fossil record back Beyond about 600

00:56:23.798 --> 00:56:28.038
million years ago that took a while yeah

00:56:25.639 --> 00:56:31.199
we we as single cell creatures three

00:56:28.039 --> 00:56:33.240
billion years yeah plus but it seems so

00:56:31.199 --> 00:56:35.598
I think people who think about this

00:56:33.239 --> 00:56:37.679
problem are honest about that and so in

00:56:35.599 --> 00:56:39.680
the search for life on other planets

00:56:37.679 --> 00:56:42.159
we're really looking for single cell

00:56:39.679 --> 00:56:44.199
organism well it would be it would be

00:56:42.159 --> 00:56:45.639
remarkable to see anything more complex

00:56:44.199 --> 00:56:48.078
well it' be remarkable to see a single

00:56:45.639 --> 00:56:50.798
cell because then you

00:56:48.079 --> 00:56:52.119
know especially if it were biologically

00:56:50.798 --> 00:56:53.719
different so you can really show that

00:56:52.119 --> 00:56:55.358
it's got a different origin because it's

00:56:53.719 --> 00:56:57.439
worth saying that on Mars the material

00:56:55.358 --> 00:56:59.480
is exchanged between Earth and Mars so

00:56:57.440 --> 00:57:01.318
it's not obvious yeah that you could and

00:56:59.480 --> 00:57:03.000
you make all these points in your Series

00:57:01.318 --> 00:57:04.599
right so where where where can people

00:57:03.000 --> 00:57:06.199
find your series it's streaming I

00:57:04.599 --> 00:57:07.920
presume yeah yeah we've got the new one

00:57:06.199 --> 00:57:10.000
is just on the moment actually that's

00:57:07.920 --> 00:57:12.200
what I'm saying the solar system so that

00:57:10.000 --> 00:57:14.760
will appear on Apple I suppose at some

00:57:12.199 --> 00:57:17.558
point and other places yeah I mean it's

00:57:14.760 --> 00:57:18.799
the moment it's on the BBC so um and

00:57:17.559 --> 00:57:20.400
it's streaming on the BBC and then it

00:57:18.798 --> 00:57:22.798
will head off around the world one of

00:57:20.400 --> 00:57:25.639
the coolest things I think about Europa

00:57:22.798 --> 00:57:29.759
is that the the habitat that the

00:57:25.639 --> 00:57:31.960
potential habitat requires Jupiter

00:57:29.760 --> 00:57:35.000
because the the heating it's liquid

00:57:31.960 --> 00:57:37.000
because of theing around a big but it

00:57:35.000 --> 00:57:39.280
also seems to require well it requires

00:57:37.000 --> 00:57:40.880
the other moons iio and ganim to keep it

00:57:39.280 --> 00:57:42.160
in this orbital resonance which keeps

00:57:40.880 --> 00:57:44.480
feeding the energy in from the

00:57:42.159 --> 00:57:46.960
gravitational field the Family Affair

00:57:44.480 --> 00:57:50.280
but it also might need the the the

00:57:46.960 --> 00:57:53.280
material from the volcanoes of IO on the

00:57:50.280 --> 00:57:55.240
surface of Europa because they might

00:57:53.280 --> 00:57:58.559
provide the what what we call the

00:57:55.239 --> 00:58:02.038
oxidant right so that so so life is so

00:57:58.559 --> 00:58:05.440
you're saying that the an IO which is

00:58:02.039 --> 00:58:09.319
badly stressed it's just one big volcano

00:58:05.440 --> 00:58:12.159
there one big volcano so th it spews

00:58:09.318 --> 00:58:13.880
volcanic substance yeah faster than

00:58:12.159 --> 00:58:16.358
escape velocity apparently and then it

00:58:13.880 --> 00:58:19.720
goes which lands on on EUR and it it

00:58:16.358 --> 00:58:22.480
goes into Pathways that intersect other

00:58:19.719 --> 00:58:24.279
moons Europa included you do this for a

00:58:22.480 --> 00:58:26.599
billion years and then the

00:58:24.280 --> 00:58:29.160
chemistry and then it gets iradi helps

00:58:26.599 --> 00:58:31.160
out the chemistry yeah so we we one of

00:58:29.159 --> 00:58:33.679
the theories that that I've spoken to

00:58:31.159 --> 00:58:36.000
people on the clip emission said is that

00:58:33.679 --> 00:58:38.279
that's part of the battery of life that

00:58:36.000 --> 00:58:40.719
chemistry so life I can't remember who

00:58:38.280 --> 00:58:42.519
said it but he said life it was someone

00:58:40.719 --> 00:58:45.199
said it's life it's an electron looking

00:58:42.519 --> 00:58:47.038
for a place to land that's what life is

00:58:45.199 --> 00:58:49.239
it's just in one way you can see life is

00:58:47.039 --> 00:58:51.640
electrons moving around but that means

00:58:49.239 --> 00:58:53.519
you need the chemistry but to is that

00:58:51.639 --> 00:58:56.239
all we are just electrons looking for a

00:58:53.519 --> 00:58:58.920
place to land well that's that's whatt

00:58:56.239 --> 00:59:01.159
I'd rather be Dust in the Wind whatever

00:58:58.920 --> 00:59:02.960
all we are so so but I find that

00:59:01.159 --> 00:59:05.759
wonderful because then you've got this

00:59:02.960 --> 00:59:07.400
habitat which is a system and as you

00:59:05.760 --> 00:59:08.960
said comparative planetology you

00:59:07.400 --> 00:59:11.400
mentioned earlier it's also true of

00:59:08.960 --> 00:59:14.358
Earth isn't it you you can't understand

00:59:11.400 --> 00:59:16.440
Earth without understanding the system

00:59:14.358 --> 00:59:19.038
the solar system you need to understand

00:59:16.440 --> 00:59:20.400
the moon and how it stabilizes the spin

00:59:19.039 --> 00:59:21.760
axis and you need to understand of

00:59:20.400 --> 00:59:23.599
course the sun and the way it interacts

00:59:21.760 --> 00:59:25.079
with Earth and so on I'm a few years

00:59:23.599 --> 00:59:27.838
your senior I don't know if you would

00:59:25.079 --> 00:59:29.480
remember this but I defitely do the era

00:59:27.838 --> 00:59:32.078
where no one was thinking or caring

00:59:29.480 --> 00:59:33.400
about moons yeah in the solar system you

00:59:32.079 --> 00:59:36.318
know we had a we have a dead Moon

00:59:33.400 --> 00:59:38.639
orbiting us oddly large but fine let's

00:59:36.318 --> 00:59:41.159
go look at the planets yeah and so every

00:59:38.639 --> 00:59:43.078
Mission out to the planets we the they

00:59:41.159 --> 00:59:46.519
looked over their shoulder and found

00:59:43.079 --> 00:59:48.480
moons which had way more geologic

00:59:46.519 --> 00:59:49.719
diversity than anything we're finding on

00:59:48.480 --> 00:59:51.480
the planet you know I found it

00:59:49.719 --> 00:59:54.199
interesting because did you I mean when

00:59:51.480 --> 00:59:57.079
you were in school did where were we pre

00:59:54.199 --> 00:59:59.358
Voyage well Voyage it so I'm pre Voyager

00:59:57.079 --> 01:00:01.400
and Voyager turned the moons into Worlds

00:59:59.358 --> 01:00:03.119
yeah that's what happened yeah yeah so

01:00:01.400 --> 01:00:05.639
the idea you have a habitable zone in a

01:00:03.119 --> 01:00:07.358
solar system which is the The Zone

01:00:05.639 --> 01:00:09.279
within which if you have a rocky planet

01:00:07.358 --> 01:00:10.960
orbiting and everything's right then and

01:00:09.280 --> 01:00:12.519
the atmosphere is right you could have

01:00:10.960 --> 01:00:16.400
the conditions to support life on the

01:00:12.519 --> 01:00:19.159
surface liquid water let's say and so

01:00:16.400 --> 01:00:21.240
and so that turn out to be needlessly

01:00:19.159 --> 01:00:24.279
limiting well exactly so so so you just

01:00:21.239 --> 01:00:26.798
say well Mars Earth Venus in our solar

01:00:24.280 --> 01:00:29.280
system that's it but then you find reh

01:00:26.798 --> 01:00:30.880
habitable zones around gas giants that

01:00:29.280 --> 01:00:33.240
and that as you said that was the great

01:00:30.880 --> 01:00:35.519
discovery of VO Voyager I would say yeah

01:00:33.239 --> 01:00:38.519
began with voyager really for sure yeah

01:00:35.519 --> 01:00:39.920
should be 19 early 1980s right so I'm

01:00:38.519 --> 01:00:42.358
I'm delighted even as a particle

01:00:39.920 --> 01:00:44.119
physicist you get to also platform the

01:00:42.358 --> 01:00:46.159
solar system because you you have the

01:00:44.119 --> 01:00:48.318
name recognition was always but that's

01:00:46.159 --> 01:00:50.118
why I said I started with astrophysics I

01:00:48.318 --> 01:00:51.558
really just wanted to be an astronomer

01:00:50.119 --> 01:00:54.880
so I've always been I've I've got a

01:00:51.559 --> 01:00:56.839
telescope you confess to me I a safe

01:00:54.880 --> 01:00:58.960
space to do that ended up in particle

01:00:56.838 --> 01:01:00.599
physics it was almost so I was doing

01:00:58.960 --> 01:01:02.079
astrophysics that's what I was doing and

01:01:00.599 --> 01:01:03.519
I thought I want to be an astronomer we

01:01:02.079 --> 01:01:05.318
University of Manchester has the jodell

01:01:03.519 --> 01:01:06.880
bank radio telescope for example which

01:01:05.318 --> 01:01:09.358
one of the big radio telescopes in the

01:01:06.880 --> 01:01:11.640
world still and so I that wasn't the one

01:01:09.358 --> 01:01:15.480
that discovered the first Pulsar was it

01:01:11.639 --> 01:01:17.960
uh no that Cambridge CD CD J discovered

01:01:15.480 --> 01:01:19.240
something else I mean just George bank

01:01:17.960 --> 01:01:21.039
it's it was one of the first so it's

01:01:19.239 --> 01:01:22.479
Pine it's one of the pioneering it's it

01:01:21.039 --> 01:01:25.720
does a lot of the work work on the camp

01:01:22.480 --> 01:01:27.318
pulsar and so on but uh it was uh so so

01:01:25.719 --> 01:01:29.038
I thought I'd be an astronomer and I

01:01:27.318 --> 01:01:31.400
have a telescope you that's what I do I

01:01:29.039 --> 01:01:34.720
I sit there and in we accept you in the

01:01:31.400 --> 01:01:36.798
club even though you you you drifted to

01:01:34.719 --> 01:01:38.199
particle physics space expiration so

01:01:36.798 --> 01:01:41.559
that's what all what but it was at

01:01:38.199 --> 01:01:43.159
University I just got interested in

01:01:41.559 --> 01:01:46.079
mathematics I didn't think I was very

01:01:43.159 --> 01:01:48.239
good at mathematics at school and uh but

01:01:46.079 --> 01:01:51.119
I found out if with a bit of practice

01:01:48.239 --> 01:01:52.558
then I I enjoyed it so I ended up really

01:01:51.119 --> 01:01:55.318
getting more into theoretical physics

01:01:52.559 --> 01:01:57.480
and and went that way so that's why I

01:01:55.318 --> 01:02:00.558
ended up in partical physics really but

01:01:57.480 --> 01:02:02.798
then now of course I I've every every

01:02:00.559 --> 01:02:05.079
opportunity I get I seem to drift back

01:02:02.798 --> 01:02:06.599
because the universe is cool you know I

01:02:05.079 --> 01:02:09.559
don't want to brag about the universe

01:02:06.599 --> 01:02:12.400
but and black holes actually are where

01:02:09.559 --> 01:02:13.960
they intersect they absolutely particle

01:02:12.400 --> 01:02:16.440
physics and general

01:02:13.960 --> 01:02:18.838
relativity astronomy and the Big Bang

01:02:16.440 --> 01:02:20.798
itself course yeah yeah yeah yeah with

01:02:18.838 --> 01:02:22.920
your particle physics hat where are we

01:02:20.798 --> 01:02:24.358
with neutrinos now I thought with

01:02:22.920 --> 01:02:27.318
they're sort of fully understood we

01:02:24.358 --> 01:02:30.159
solved the nutrino problem in the Sun

01:02:27.318 --> 01:02:32.880
that a Nobel Prize was given for that uh

01:02:30.159 --> 01:02:35.278
is there anything left to discover about

01:02:32.880 --> 01:02:38.160
this elusive particle that belongs in

01:02:35.278 --> 01:02:40.079
the in the I say Tree of Life in the the

01:02:38.159 --> 01:02:43.558
particle Tree of Life yeah I mean there

01:02:40.079 --> 01:02:45.278
are neutrinos are fascinating things

01:02:43.559 --> 01:02:48.000
that they're very very very they're

01:02:45.278 --> 01:02:50.039
almost massless but not quite and that

01:02:48.000 --> 01:02:51.838
matters that should ring bells you know

01:02:50.039 --> 01:02:53.278
it's like why that's the thing about

01:02:51.838 --> 01:02:56.000
science isn't it you go why is this

01:02:53.278 --> 01:02:57.639
unusually light or maybe it isn't maybe

01:02:56.000 --> 01:02:59.440
the other things are unusually heavy but

01:02:57.639 --> 01:03:00.400
but but but it's telling us something

01:02:59.440 --> 01:03:02.639
and it's only

01:03:00.400 --> 01:03:05.400
neutrinos that how hard it is to

01:03:02.639 --> 01:03:08.358
interact with them they gives me any

01:03:05.400 --> 01:03:10.000
belief at all in some other set of

01:03:08.358 --> 01:03:12.159
particles that might exist that we don't

01:03:10.000 --> 01:03:14.798
interact with because neutrinos are our

01:03:12.159 --> 01:03:16.960
own species well they interact through a

01:03:14.798 --> 01:03:19.318
the weak Force they interact but that's

01:03:16.960 --> 01:03:22.240
us that's our little world here right

01:03:19.318 --> 01:03:24.278
any other symmetric particles there

01:03:22.239 --> 01:03:28.598
other forces that mediate them is that

01:03:24.278 --> 01:03:30.760
correct there would be so if you have um

01:03:28.599 --> 01:03:32.559
sort of extensions to the standard model

01:03:30.760 --> 01:03:34.160
of particle physics then you you can

01:03:32.559 --> 01:03:37.039
have forces that change things into

01:03:34.159 --> 01:03:40.118
other things and and so different forces

01:03:37.039 --> 01:03:42.839
but as far as we know as far the zoo

01:03:40.119 --> 01:03:45.278
that we have discovered is is described

01:03:42.838 --> 01:03:46.880
by the three forces um the strong

01:03:45.278 --> 01:03:48.838
nuclear force the weak nuclear force

01:03:46.880 --> 01:03:51.640
electromagnetism and then hanging out

01:03:48.838 --> 01:03:54.038
there as we've discussed is gravity in

01:03:51.639 --> 01:03:56.798
in really a different framework at the

01:03:54.039 --> 01:03:59.640
moment so I Coral Steve ber in elevator

01:03:56.798 --> 01:04:02.719
one day and

01:03:59.639 --> 01:04:04.679
uh and you know physicist I'm telling

01:04:02.719 --> 01:04:07.358
you I'm telling the audience particle

01:04:04.679 --> 01:04:09.480
physicist one of the greats yeah and he

01:04:07.358 --> 01:04:12.960
went to my high school let me allow me

01:04:09.480 --> 01:04:15.838
to add one of wi Nobel laurates from my

01:04:12.960 --> 01:04:19.400
high school and I

01:04:15.838 --> 01:04:22.960
said how can you live with yourself at

01:04:19.400 --> 01:04:25.599
night given how many particles there are

01:04:22.960 --> 01:04:26.960
come on there's like I lost count what

01:04:25.599 --> 01:04:30.278
what what does what does this mean about

01:04:26.960 --> 01:04:32.480
our universe and he said it's not how

01:04:30.278 --> 01:04:36.199
many particles there

01:04:32.480 --> 01:04:38.318
are it's how many laws we have that

01:04:36.199 --> 01:04:41.519
describe them all yeah and it's only

01:04:38.318 --> 01:04:44.960
just a few yeah I thought damn good

01:04:41.519 --> 01:04:47.960
answer yeah he's I remember Steven Weber

01:04:44.960 --> 01:04:50.278
good answer I I think I'm right in

01:04:47.960 --> 01:04:53.278
quoting him as saying that he almost

01:04:50.278 --> 01:04:55.960
wish black holes didn't exist because

01:04:53.278 --> 01:04:57.880
they're so perplexing that it would be

01:04:55.960 --> 01:05:00.000
just easier and he was kind of joking of

01:04:57.880 --> 01:05:02.200
course because physicists love a mystery

01:05:00.000 --> 01:05:04.838
but he was almost like this is too

01:05:02.199 --> 01:05:07.879
difficult there too bizarre maybe nature

01:05:04.838 --> 01:05:10.880
doesn't make them oh I got so see see

01:05:07.880 --> 01:05:12.559
he's he's invoking human limitations on

01:05:10.880 --> 01:05:13.960
the capacity of kind of joke and he was

01:05:12.559 --> 01:05:16.160
just saying these things are so baffling

01:05:13.960 --> 01:05:17.880
and so weird in some ways I'd rather

01:05:16.159 --> 01:05:20.000
they weren't there you know did he say

01:05:17.880 --> 01:05:22.079
that in his old age so that he was

01:05:20.000 --> 01:05:24.199
getting tired of solving the universe he

01:05:22.079 --> 01:05:26.160
was joking so we're still trying to

01:05:24.199 --> 01:05:29.278
explore neutrinos and as I understand

01:05:26.159 --> 01:05:31.719
there's a new nutrino experiment that

01:05:29.278 --> 01:05:35.719
just there came online I mean there are

01:05:31.719 --> 01:05:39.000
several I mean I so the I mean what the

01:05:35.719 --> 01:05:40.959
fundamental question they they do seem

01:05:39.000 --> 01:05:42.159
that the reason we're interested in them

01:05:40.960 --> 01:05:44.838
just we're interested in them because

01:05:42.159 --> 01:05:49.159
they're three of the 12 fundamental

01:05:44.838 --> 01:05:52.960
particles right so so we are made of

01:05:49.159 --> 01:05:55.639
basically three particles that's us and

01:05:52.960 --> 01:05:56.838
electrons protons neutrons uh well no so

01:05:55.639 --> 01:06:00.000
so the protons and neutrons are made of

01:05:56.838 --> 01:06:02.798
quarks oh so okay quarks down let let's

01:06:00.000 --> 01:06:04.278
start from the we're made of atoms you

01:06:02.798 --> 01:06:08.119
can start with we're made of atoms and

01:06:04.278 --> 01:06:10.119
we ATS in Greek means indivisible yeah

01:06:08.119 --> 01:06:12.318
that's what that word means yeah and and

01:06:10.119 --> 01:06:15.039
I it is remarkable by the way you say

01:06:12.318 --> 01:06:17.558
the the Greeks 2,000 years ago uh we

01:06:15.039 --> 01:06:19.920
only discovered that the structure of

01:06:17.559 --> 01:06:22.119
atoms in the 20th century or there ads

01:06:19.920 --> 01:06:24.039
existed well yeah it was up for debates

01:06:22.119 --> 01:06:25.838
the turn of the 20th century it was one

01:06:24.039 --> 01:06:28.480
of the debates in science is there such

01:06:25.838 --> 01:06:30.639
a thing as an atom yeah it's incredible

01:06:28.480 --> 01:06:32.960
incredible yeah yeah yeah and Einstein

01:06:30.639 --> 01:06:35.118
indeed in 1905 one of his famous papers

01:06:32.960 --> 01:06:37.000
was on brownie in motion which one of

01:06:35.119 --> 01:06:38.920
the three famous papers in that year one

01:06:37.000 --> 01:06:40.039
of the other one was special relativity

01:06:38.920 --> 01:06:42.039
and the other one when he got the Nobel

01:06:40.039 --> 01:06:44.359
Prize for was the photo electric effects

01:06:42.039 --> 01:06:45.960
the third one Einstein we should just

01:06:44.358 --> 01:06:48.400
retroactively give him like a dozen

01:06:45.960 --> 01:06:50.559
Nobel prizes it's astonishing he didn't

01:06:48.400 --> 01:06:52.240
get the Nobel Prize for relativity you

01:06:50.559 --> 01:06:54.400
got it for basically the foundation to

01:06:52.239 --> 01:06:57.598
Quantum Mechanics yeah we we discovered

01:06:54.400 --> 01:06:59.358
that matters made of atoms and then we

01:06:57.599 --> 01:07:02.240
very quickly discover after that that

01:06:59.358 --> 01:07:04.119
the atom is a electrons initially we

01:07:02.239 --> 01:07:07.038
have this almost solar system like model

01:07:04.119 --> 01:07:09.039
that it's a a nucleus a dense nucleus

01:07:07.039 --> 01:07:10.839
with an electron going around it and

01:07:09.039 --> 01:07:13.480
then we discover the nucleus is made of

01:07:10.838 --> 01:07:16.239
protons and neutrons that's 1930s by the

01:07:13.480 --> 01:07:18.240
way by orbit model is still the the

01:07:16.239 --> 01:07:21.318
symbol for an atom yeah you know yeah

01:07:18.239 --> 01:07:22.959
the atomic because it's classic you know

01:07:21.318 --> 01:07:24.880
but that's Adams look nothing like that

01:07:22.960 --> 01:07:26.960
no no no and so then quantum mechanics

01:07:24.880 --> 01:07:28.720
comes in tells you you can't have that

01:07:26.960 --> 01:07:29.960
because charged particles moving around

01:07:28.719 --> 01:07:31.679
in the vicinity of other charged

01:07:29.960 --> 01:07:33.838
particles radiate energy away and they

01:07:31.679 --> 01:07:36.278
wouldn't be stable and that was known of

01:07:33.838 --> 01:07:38.199
course um and so then you find that the

01:07:36.278 --> 01:07:40.318
nucleus is made of prot and neutrons and

01:07:38.199 --> 01:07:42.919
as I said the neutron it's a 1930s

01:07:40.318 --> 01:07:45.119
Discovery so we're not that long ago I'm

01:07:42.920 --> 01:07:46.000
amazed when so much you know we're now

01:07:45.119 --> 01:07:48.599
in the

01:07:46.000 --> 01:07:50.199
Centennial decade of the discovery of

01:07:48.599 --> 01:07:54.480
quantum physics back in the

01:07:50.199 --> 01:07:56.000
1920s and the whole 1920s was done

01:07:54.480 --> 01:07:58.760
before we discovered the new

01:07:56.000 --> 01:08:00.599
that's crazy yeah it's it's it's almost

01:07:58.760 --> 01:08:03.480
living it is living memory for some

01:08:00.599 --> 01:08:05.119
people just about this okay so let's get

01:08:03.480 --> 01:08:06.278
back to the fundamental particles then

01:08:05.119 --> 01:08:08.240
then we discovered that the protons and

01:08:06.278 --> 01:08:11.480
neutrons are made of quarks quarks so

01:08:08.239 --> 01:08:13.278
they are as far as we can tell Point

01:08:11.480 --> 01:08:15.838
like objects so they're fundamental they

01:08:13.278 --> 01:08:18.679
won't be but as far as we can tell they

01:08:15.838 --> 01:08:21.158
are experimentally so we have the photon

01:08:18.679 --> 01:08:23.039
the electron well let's the matter

01:08:21.158 --> 01:08:25.559
particles so we have so the up and down

01:08:23.039 --> 01:08:27.640
quarks make up protons and neutrons so

01:08:25.560 --> 01:08:30.000
proton is is two ups and a down and a

01:08:27.640 --> 01:08:33.480
neutron is two downs and an up got it

01:08:30.000 --> 01:08:36.520
and we have two quarks per energy

01:08:33.479 --> 01:08:38.318
stratum here correct well so then so

01:08:36.520 --> 01:08:39.839
then we discovered so we had this we

01:08:38.319 --> 01:08:41.839
have this nice thing so we have the

01:08:39.838 --> 01:08:43.559
electron as you said the up and down

01:08:41.838 --> 01:08:44.559
quark and then the thing called the

01:08:43.560 --> 01:08:46.920
electron

01:08:44.560 --> 01:08:48.759
neutrino which we so we just talked

01:08:46.920 --> 01:08:50.359
about NEOS so only four fundamental

01:08:48.759 --> 01:08:52.520
particles in anything we know or care

01:08:50.359 --> 01:08:54.279
about so we have four of them yep that's

01:08:52.520 --> 01:08:56.880
it and then we have so I can construct

01:08:54.279 --> 01:08:57.719
you out of these particles if I had the

01:08:56.880 --> 01:09:00.880
the

01:08:57.719 --> 01:09:02.560
recip but then so we have four of them

01:09:00.880 --> 01:09:04.400
so so that's there's four of them and

01:09:02.560 --> 01:09:07.199
then the for is that that mediate the

01:09:04.399 --> 01:09:09.079
interactions right okay and which we can

01:09:07.198 --> 01:09:11.599
also think of as being carried by

01:09:09.079 --> 01:09:13.519
particles as we said we have the photon

01:09:11.600 --> 01:09:15.719
partic the electromagnetic force we have

01:09:13.520 --> 01:09:18.759
the w and z bosons which do the weak

01:09:15.719 --> 01:09:19.880
nuclear force and the gluons which the

01:09:18.759 --> 01:09:23.960
strong nuclear force and stick the

01:09:19.880 --> 01:09:26.880
quarks name gluons GL okay and and so

01:09:23.960 --> 01:09:31.239
that's it it seems except that there are

01:09:26.880 --> 01:09:34.279
two copies of those that are identical

01:09:31.238 --> 01:09:36.278
except they're more massive so the so

01:09:34.279 --> 01:09:39.719
there's there's the Str the charm and

01:09:36.279 --> 01:09:41.560
strange quarks and the muon and the M

01:09:39.719 --> 01:09:42.960
neutrino that's another family that's

01:09:41.560 --> 01:09:45.359
nothing that's the next level up in

01:09:42.960 --> 01:09:46.920
energy they're more massive more massive

01:09:45.359 --> 01:09:50.319
okay okay so you have the charm and

01:09:46.920 --> 01:09:52.158
strange and the muan and the Muno and

01:09:50.319 --> 01:09:54.560
then you have another one yeah which are

01:09:52.158 --> 01:09:56.039
the bottom and top or sometimes called

01:09:54.560 --> 01:09:58.080
Beauty and Truth depending on how you

01:09:56.039 --> 01:10:01.439
want to do it the quarks and then the

01:09:58.079 --> 01:10:03.119
TOA and the to neutrino and that's it as

01:10:01.439 --> 01:10:06.399
far as we can tell so that those are the

01:10:03.119 --> 01:10:08.198
M 4812 fundamental particles and their

01:10:06.399 --> 01:10:10.920
antimatter counterparts yeah and then

01:10:08.198 --> 01:10:15.079
the antimatter counterparts and so that

01:10:10.920 --> 01:10:18.560
that why we don't know so why there are

01:10:15.079 --> 01:10:21.000
three and with with experimentally

01:10:18.560 --> 01:10:23.960
proven really with some very small

01:10:21.000 --> 01:10:26.238
caveats only three generations only

01:10:23.960 --> 01:10:27.480
three families of these things

01:10:26.238 --> 01:10:29.678
is there reason for there to be only

01:10:27.479 --> 01:10:31.359
three could there be five 10 so we don't

01:10:29.679 --> 01:10:33.960
know it must be something to do with the

01:10:31.359 --> 01:10:36.079
underlying it looks like a periodic

01:10:33.960 --> 01:10:38.640
table so remember you go back to men

01:10:36.079 --> 01:10:40.359
mendal and the periodic table what what

01:10:38.640 --> 01:10:42.520
how do you understand that pattern in

01:10:40.359 --> 01:10:44.839
the in the chemical properties of the of

01:10:42.520 --> 01:10:46.280
the elements you understand it when you

01:10:44.840 --> 01:10:48.360
know that everything's made of atoms

01:10:46.279 --> 01:10:50.559
yeah I mean the chemist arranged it but

01:10:48.359 --> 01:10:52.158
didn't have any understanding of it no

01:10:50.560 --> 01:10:53.440
quantum physics well well you need to

01:10:52.158 --> 01:10:55.399
know the structure you need to know that

01:10:53.439 --> 01:10:57.198
there's a nucleus and there's you know

01:10:55.399 --> 01:10:59.198
hydrogen's got one electron and helium's

01:10:57.198 --> 01:11:02.399
got two and carbon how can we only get

01:10:59.198 --> 01:11:03.919
you so far yeah so so you you understand

01:11:02.399 --> 01:11:05.599
chemistry you understand the pattern

01:11:03.920 --> 01:11:07.760
when you understand the building blocks

01:11:05.600 --> 01:11:09.679
okay so we don't know why that pattern

01:11:07.760 --> 01:11:11.039
is there but it's clearly telling us

01:11:09.679 --> 01:11:13.279
about the building blocks or the

01:11:11.039 --> 01:11:15.719
underlying Theory which we don't know so

01:11:13.279 --> 01:11:18.319
it's one of the great Mysteries so so

01:11:15.719 --> 01:11:19.679
this so that's the the the zoo of

01:11:18.319 --> 01:11:22.000
particles as we know and then there's

01:11:19.679 --> 01:11:24.399
the higs and just to be clear when I

01:11:22.000 --> 01:11:27.079
attacked Steven Weinberg in the elevator

01:11:24.399 --> 01:11:29.119
uh most of the particle identities I was

01:11:27.079 --> 01:11:31.479
referencing are different combinations

01:11:29.119 --> 01:11:33.079
of different quirks yeah come together

01:11:31.479 --> 01:11:35.198
yeah so all these like you said in the

01:11:33.079 --> 01:11:38.359
f50s and people were discovering all

01:11:35.198 --> 01:11:39.919
these things and they're different

01:11:38.359 --> 01:11:43.359
combinations of ups and downs and

01:11:39.920 --> 01:11:45.279
strange and charm and and and bottom and

01:11:43.359 --> 01:11:46.880
you know and so on so they exist in our

01:11:45.279 --> 01:11:47.759
universe but again they're made of the

01:11:46.880 --> 01:11:50.039
more

01:11:47.760 --> 01:11:52.719
fundamental so so basically the these

01:11:50.039 --> 01:11:54.800
things that the proton and neutron

01:11:52.719 --> 01:11:56.880
they're kind analogous to an atom in a

01:11:54.800 --> 01:11:59.279
way so so they're a thing they're quite

01:11:56.880 --> 01:12:01.480
a big things in particle physics and

01:11:59.279 --> 01:12:03.479
they have an internal structure and and

01:12:01.479 --> 01:12:04.959
one yeah and one of the things that I

01:12:03.479 --> 01:12:06.879
was involved in that we did back in

01:12:04.960 --> 01:12:09.399
Hamburg all those years ago was we were

01:12:06.880 --> 01:12:10.920
mapping the structure of the proton so

01:12:09.399 --> 01:12:12.319
we we we're saying what what is in the

01:12:10.920 --> 01:12:13.920
proton how does it work maing the

01:12:12.319 --> 01:12:16.119
interior structure of the proton and we

01:12:13.920 --> 01:12:17.760
need that we needed that for the LHC so

01:12:16.119 --> 01:12:20.519
we need because we Collide protons

01:12:17.760 --> 01:12:22.400
together so so we have very detailed

01:12:20.520 --> 01:12:24.239
maps if you like they call structure

01:12:22.399 --> 01:12:25.679
functions but they're maps of the of the

01:12:24.238 --> 01:12:28.959
proton well

01:12:25.679 --> 01:12:31.440
thank you pleasure for joining me I I

01:12:28.960 --> 01:12:34.158
always love talking to you being we're

01:12:31.439 --> 01:12:36.359
just like we're Kindred Spirits in this

01:12:34.158 --> 01:12:39.079
world and I wish you great success with

01:12:36.359 --> 01:12:41.519
your spring tour does it go beyond the

01:12:39.079 --> 01:12:43.399
United States is it a world tour it has

01:12:41.520 --> 01:12:46.480
been a world tour we've been to I don't

01:12:43.399 --> 01:12:47.759
know 20 or 30 countries I said we we

01:12:46.479 --> 01:12:49.799
we're probably approaching half a

01:12:47.760 --> 01:12:52.199
million people who've come to okay so so

01:12:49.800 --> 01:12:54.639
that's the that we're we're at the at

01:12:52.198 --> 01:12:56.479
the end really of this one and so I just

01:12:54.639 --> 01:12:59.239
wanted to bring it back here it's

01:12:56.479 --> 01:13:02.079
changed so much we could started in the

01:12:59.238 --> 01:13:04.439
states actually with it in its Proto

01:13:02.079 --> 01:13:06.399
form and now and now I just I I've loved

01:13:04.439 --> 01:13:07.638
doing it so much and I just wanted to

01:13:06.399 --> 01:13:09.399
bring I just like the idea that a

01:13:07.639 --> 01:13:10.880
science talk is being given but there

01:13:09.399 --> 01:13:13.158
are trucks that have to unload the

01:13:10.880 --> 01:13:16.639
staging for it it's Pro it's proper rock

01:13:13.158 --> 01:13:19.638
and roll I got Ries I've got everything

01:13:16.639 --> 01:13:21.079
do you have a Tor T-shirt with on it

01:13:19.639 --> 01:13:23.159
yeah oh yeah all right I should have

01:13:21.079 --> 01:13:24.519
brought one to one of those shirts oh my

01:13:23.158 --> 01:13:26.719
god oh we've got everything and we've

01:13:24.520 --> 01:13:29.159
done so many many shows I I how many it

01:13:26.719 --> 01:13:31.679
is 150 200 they don't all fit on one

01:13:29.158 --> 01:13:34.279
t-shirt so so we got different t-shirts

01:13:31.679 --> 01:13:36.639
for different regions of the the world

01:13:34.279 --> 01:13:39.198
physics takes the world uh very good

01:13:36.639 --> 01:13:41.359
Brian again thanks for being on the show

01:13:39.198 --> 01:13:44.079
this has been an exclusive conversation

01:13:41.359 --> 01:13:46.158
between me and my good friend Brian Cox

01:13:44.079 --> 01:13:48.880
from the UK who's coming

01:13:46.158 --> 01:13:51.599
Stateside with a tour and we're going to

01:13:48.880 --> 01:13:55.199
look for the solar system on should be

01:13:51.600 --> 01:13:57.079
Rand yeah if does it BBC how many how

01:13:55.198 --> 01:13:59.359
many episodes is it five five episodes

01:13:57.079 --> 01:14:01.719
we'll look forward all right I this has

01:13:59.359 --> 01:14:05.859
been star talk I'm your host Neil

01:14:01.719 --> 01:14:09.039
degrass Tyson as always keep looking up

01:14:05.859 --> 01:14:09.039
[Music]

01:14:16.939 --> 01:14:21.779
[Music]

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