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take me to the frontier of particle

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physics today there's tremendous

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progress being it's such an exciting

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time in fundamental physics not only

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particle physics but we said

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gravitational astronomy the exploration

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of the force of gravity black holes

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Quantum information Quantum Computing

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and all sorts all that stuff is is to me

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utterly fascinating I I think for the

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first time it's probably true to say in

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particle physics we don't know if

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there's anything else just around the

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corner which is bad you know but it's

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also it is our duty to find things out

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about

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nature this is Star Talk Neil degrass

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Tyson you're a personal astrophysicist

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and today we are featuring my exclusive

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one-on-one interview with my friend and

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colleague from across the pond Brian Cox

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Brian welcome hi it's great to be back

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oh my God gosh oh it's it's been been

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tooo long yeah and we don't usually get

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to do it in person it's usually over

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Zoom or something right let's get some

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of your biography out there for State

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Side people who might not fully know who

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you are uh you cut your teeth as a

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particle physicist is that correct yeah

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initially I mean actually my degree is

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the University of Manchester by the way

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in the UK I've never left so I started

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there doing my undergraduate degree

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postgraduate what do they call you there

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now you are professor of particle

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physics at the University of Manchester

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yeah and Royal

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Society as in the Royal Society of

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London yeah Royal Society professor of

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public engagement in science yeah so

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we're Kindred Souls across the Atlantic

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yeah so okay so you never left is that

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because they wanted you so badly or that

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no one else wanted you yeah probably the

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latter but but I started it was actually

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um physics with astrophysics my degree

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so I did a degree physics with

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astrophysics then PhD in particle

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physics although the first year was I

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was working on supernova neutrinos so I

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crossing over in astroparticle physics

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as we would call it then I got into

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particle physics went to the daisy

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laboratory in Hamburg and works on

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electron proton collisions so called

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defc scattering I've seen Daisy online

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I've seen Daisy simulations of things

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they simulate like colliding black holes

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and things fascinating Daisy they Dy

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theut synchron yeah they they have a a

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public facing platform see I didn't know

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that I didn't know because the

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accelerator is no longer operational so

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but it's a big it's it's a huge lab in

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Hamburg so I did my PhD there that's in

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particle physics then moved to fermilab

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in Chicago for a while and then to CERN

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when we were Building A Large Hadron

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Collider and then but I've always

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Switzerland yes in Geneva and remind me

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that's Center the European Center for

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nuclear research research acony French

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acronymed yeah to because it was founded

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in the 1950s and at the time so it was

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it was what part of the Reconstruction

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of Europe really after the war so it was

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a that lab was founded I think it's 1954

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1953 um and so it was Nuclear Physics at

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the time there wasn't really such a

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thing as particle physics I suppose at

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the time and then and now it's by far

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the world's largest accelerator particle

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physics lab yeah I mean the center of

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mass of that whole world left the United

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States when we stopped funding our super

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in Texas yeah the SSC super conducting

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supering super collider yeah I would

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have called it the super duper collider

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that might have kept its funding at that

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point but uh yeah so Europe still leads

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the world in in nuclear particle

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research it's a it's a it's a very

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International lab I mean it is the

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world's cider so um so although it's

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based in Switzerland and France I would

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say it's a it's a world lab

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okay that's very diplomatic of you well

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it certainly is I mean the US have a

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tremendous presence there for example

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while you're saying all this to me

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you're not describing this this branch

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of your life as a musician so just

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briefly remind me of that yes so when I

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was uh 18 so traditionally you would go

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to university there start a Physics

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degree but I didn't because I was in a

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band a rock band that I joined just

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before I'm sure your parents love that

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fact no they did actually they they they

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loved it I could go to college and major

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in physics or continue with my band oh

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but do you have that thing like a gap

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year we call it where you say well I'm

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going to take a year off the studies

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before I go to college or university and

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so I'd said that I'd said I'm going to

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be in this band and and I'm just going

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to do it for a year and then I'll go and

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do physics H but then we got a record

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deal uh a big record deal with A&M

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records this is in 1986 1987 it's a long

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time ago got a big record deal and so we

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we I came to Los Angeles and recorded an

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album with uh actually produced by Larry

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kleene who was married to Joanie

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Mitchell at the time and so we recorded

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some of it in Janie Mitchell studio in

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Los Angeles so and then we toured with

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uh my first professional gig with that

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band was with Jimmy Page in Jimmy pagee

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and did you open for Jimmy Page yeah we

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open for Jimmy pagee and and Gary Moore

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who'd also been in the band thing Lizzy

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and then Europe the The Final Countdown

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so you know this song The Final

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Countdown and Carri was a big h here in

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the US so we opened for them made a

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couple of albums so I did that basically

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for five years and it charted uh

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actually no we we just we did Big Shows

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it was a rock and roll band and then and

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then we I left that band um went

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straight back to Manchester and went to

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start a Physics degree as one do yes but

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then in that little Gap that I joined

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another band who then had some hit

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records so a band called D this is in

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the early 90s now and we we they didn't

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have a record deal when I joined them

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and they got a record deal as well so

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when I was at University I was in this

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band we had a number one hit in the UK

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and Australia with a song which violates

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the second law thermodynamics which

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you'll love call things can only get

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better which is clearly incorrect

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certainly things could only get worse

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globally in the universe exactly so and

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then so so yeah so I had a two and that

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song what helped it if I remember

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correctly some political candidate

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adopted it their theme song Tony Blair

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it was very ton Blair yeah it was Tony

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Blair in

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1997 his associated with his election

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yeah and came back actually into fashion

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because we just had a a change of

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administration in the UK and uh that

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song came up again and it came up and it

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got quite popular again so I did

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Glastonbury this year with the band wait

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that's that huge Place yeah the big

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Festival yeah that's the hu any huge

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scene of musicians in the UK is at that

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location well it's the world I mean it's

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probably the biggest Festival in the

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world I would imagine I would guess but

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it's a huge Festival so you and Brian

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May those we are the two he did it the

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other way around though he he so he he

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got

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extremely well yeah he he got extremely

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famous and then finished his PhD in

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astrophysics yeah okay Brian May good Le

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guitarist of queen queen yes yeah so

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let's pick up some of the physics we are

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both here right now now in Las Vegas uh

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at

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a world Skeptics conference yeah yeah uh

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we we're both Skeptics I mean any

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scientist is a skeptic but problem is

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when the world does weird things who's

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going to put them in check somebody's

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got to show up at the scene and say no

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that's not how that works or no the laws

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of physics prevent that or you so you've

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you've had to do this in the UK right

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there's certain resonances between the

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United States and the UK about how

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people misthink things so what was your

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baptism into this world well actually I

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mean I was only interested in doing

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research for a long time so I as a

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postar and that in that part of my

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career I didn't want to know about

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anything else other than doing research

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and that's all I did but um it was uh I

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can't remember when it was now but there

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was one of those regular funding crises

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as you'll know from here in the US when

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when government support in particular

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for research dipped and so I got

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involved in trying to fight that and we

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realize I mean it's kind of obvious I

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suppose but we realize that one of the

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reasons talking to government that they

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had cut the research budget was that

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they didn't think anyone cared so they

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thought it was a simple thing to demy

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you could just and so we we as a

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Community we were re-ed we we learned

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again we've learned over the years but

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we learned again that popular support

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popular support uh for for what we do is

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important and and where does the support

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comes from it comes from understanding

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and I could there are many reasons by

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the way why uh talking to people who are

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not in science about what we are doing

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as scientists is important one of them

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of course is just purely democratizing

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knowledge it's it we tax payers fund at

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least in part what we do and therefore

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they have a right to know so there's

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that level but on the other level which

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I think you're suggesting as well um

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what science does I think it's not it's

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not about knowing the facts it's not

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about really it's not about knowing the

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universe is 13.8 billion years old for

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example or it's 13.8 billion years since

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the Big Bang we could talk about that

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later actually does that mean it had a

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bite origin in time in the P that anyway

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but it's not put in that we'll get back

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to that okay it's not about knowing

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facts so much

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as understanding something about the

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process by which we acquire reliable

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knowledge about the world and and

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science is the process by which we

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acquire reliable knowledge and so I I

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think that realiz in that on that well

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it's yeah in the sense I think in the

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sense that nature is there whether and

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and it the job of the scientist is to

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find out how it works and of course as

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Richard fan and many others are famously

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said it doesn't care who you are or what

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your opinion is or how popular you are

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how many votes you got or anything how

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much money you've got it doesn't care so

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in that sense I think it is a unique

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Pursuit because the the standard by

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which your opinion is judged is is

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external to us it's nothing to do with

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Humanity nature is the ultimate judge

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jury an executioner so so so I think I

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became involved initially just on that

271
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very narrow idea that we wanted to make

272
00:11:02,159 --> 00:11:06,199
sure that people understood what we did

273
00:11:03,919 --> 00:11:08,039
and what the value of it is and then

274
00:11:06,200 --> 00:11:10,600
that branch that that became bigger and

275
00:11:08,039 --> 00:11:12,519
bigger in my career and and Branch

276
00:11:10,600 --> 00:11:14,800
Stein's television and and live shows

277
00:11:12,519 --> 00:11:18,240
and all sorts of things but it came from

278
00:11:14,799 --> 00:11:19,879
that that's I wasn't interested in

279
00:11:18,240 --> 00:11:22,039
communicating science I was just

280
00:11:19,879 --> 00:11:25,399
interested in doing it for a very long

281
00:11:22,039 --> 00:11:27,159
time so you had a certain Duty and

282
00:11:25,399 --> 00:11:30,200
responsibility to the world well I think

283
00:11:27,159 --> 00:11:34,159
we all do I mean I've realized since

284
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that I I think uh actually fan again

285
00:11:34,159 --> 00:11:39,120
said it's a very brilliant essay that

286
00:11:36,480 --> 00:11:41,278
anyone can download from 1955 I think it

287
00:11:39,120 --> 00:11:44,360
is called the value of science it's just

288
00:11:41,278 --> 00:11:47,278
four pages and it's there it's on calex

289
00:11:44,360 --> 00:11:49,839
archive I think and in there he says

290
00:11:47,278 --> 00:11:54,679
that it is our duty as scientists our

291
00:11:49,839 --> 00:11:56,399
duty knowing the the great value of he

292
00:11:54,679 --> 00:11:58,599
calls it he defines science as a

293
00:11:56,399 --> 00:11:59,799
satisfactory philosophy of ignorance

294
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which is a beauti

295
00:11:59,799 --> 00:12:02,958
just merely satisfactory it's philosophy

296
00:12:01,440 --> 00:12:04,480
of ignorance you start out from not

297
00:12:02,958 --> 00:12:05,559
knowing and he said and he said the

298
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great value of the satisfactory

299
00:12:05,559 --> 00:12:09,879
philosophy of ignorance the great value

300
00:12:07,078 --> 00:12:12,479
of freedom of thought to Proclaim that

301
00:12:09,879 --> 00:12:14,159
freedom and to try to protect it for all

302
00:12:12,480 --> 00:12:16,879
coming Generations essentially says at

303
00:12:14,159 --> 00:12:20,240
the end so but but I like the framing it

304
00:12:16,879 --> 00:12:23,039
is our duty as scientist to do that as

305
00:12:20,240 --> 00:12:25,320
well as do our job which is to find

306
00:12:23,039 --> 00:12:27,919
things out about nature about the

307
00:12:25,320 --> 00:12:31,399
natural world and I uh in this

308
00:12:27,919 --> 00:12:34,639
conference I am to bestow upon you the

309
00:12:31,399 --> 00:12:37,600
Richard Dawkins award for science and

310
00:12:34,639 --> 00:12:39,240
reason bestow bestow yes the Richard

311
00:12:37,600 --> 00:12:43,560
Dawkins award is something I won last

312
00:12:39,240 --> 00:12:45,799
year and uh I was called back in to

313
00:12:43,559 --> 00:12:49,399
bestow it upon

314
00:12:45,799 --> 00:12:51,639
you a great honor it is a it will be a

315
00:12:49,399 --> 00:12:54,958
delight for me it takes place tonight

316
00:12:51,639 --> 00:12:58,120
yeah I look forward to that and just the

317
00:12:54,958 --> 00:13:00,359
idea that science and reason is

318
00:12:58,120 --> 00:13:02,198
something maybe it's sad that it's

319
00:13:00,360 --> 00:13:04,800
something that needs to be

320
00:13:02,198 --> 00:13:07,879
rewarded because if it's one of these

321
00:13:04,799 --> 00:13:10,359
awards that if the world functioned just

322
00:13:07,879 --> 00:13:12,600
right you wouldn't need it and also you

323
00:13:10,360 --> 00:13:14,879
know although I said as as fan has said

324
00:13:12,600 --> 00:13:17,639
it's it's in in a sense our duty as

325
00:13:14,879 --> 00:13:20,759
scientists it is also true that not all

326
00:13:17,639 --> 00:13:22,720
scientists want to want to do that or or

327
00:13:20,759 --> 00:13:26,039
feel comfortable with it as I said I

328
00:13:22,720 --> 00:13:27,800
didn't want to do it um initially now

329
00:13:26,039 --> 00:13:30,799
now I very much enjoy it and think it's

330
00:13:27,799 --> 00:13:33,559
very important but it so we don't need

331
00:13:30,799 --> 00:13:35,879
everybody to to do it but but some

332
00:13:33,559 --> 00:13:37,838
people will and that's that's important

333
00:13:35,879 --> 00:13:39,519
right discussing big ideas with experts

334
00:13:37,839 --> 00:13:41,839
from physicists and biologists to

335
00:13:39,519 --> 00:13:44,198
entertainers and politicians is our

336
00:13:41,839 --> 00:13:47,279
favorite way to critically explore the

337
00:13:44,198 --> 00:13:48,838
world around us and now with spacex's

338
00:13:47,278 --> 00:13:51,559
Starship on track to ramp up its

339
00:13:48,839 --> 00:13:54,880
launches Elon Musk is turning Visionary

340
00:13:51,559 --> 00:13:56,359
ideas into real progress however since

341
00:13:54,879 --> 00:13:58,559
his cabinet appointment in Trump's

342
00:13:56,360 --> 00:14:00,800
Administration many are wondering about

343
00:13:58,559 --> 00:14:03,679
Musk conflicts of interest his influence

344
00:14:00,799 --> 00:14:05,838
on policies and more so tracking

345
00:14:03,679 --> 00:14:08,198
developments through reliable sources

346
00:14:05,839 --> 00:14:10,680
these next four years is absolutely

347
00:14:08,198 --> 00:14:13,120
essential something our long-term

348
00:14:10,679 --> 00:14:15,799
Partners at Ground news simplify they're

349
00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:17,799
an app and website founded by a former

350
00:14:15,799 --> 00:14:20,519
NASA engineer who brought the same level

351
00:14:17,799 --> 00:14:23,639
of precision she needed up in space to

352
00:14:20,519 --> 00:14:26,278
how we consume information here on Earth

353
00:14:23,639 --> 00:14:28,278
access every perspective shaping a story

354
00:14:26,278 --> 00:14:31,639
with data on how credible their

355
00:14:28,278 --> 00:14:33,879
reporting and actually is or burst your

356
00:14:31,639 --> 00:14:35,919
media bubble and find important angles

357
00:14:33,879 --> 00:14:38,519
impacting space and Beyond you might

358
00:14:35,919 --> 00:14:40,198
have otherwise missed with science

359
00:14:38,519 --> 00:14:42,600
increasingly becoming a political

360
00:14:40,198 --> 00:14:44,519
talking point these days access to a

361
00:14:42,600 --> 00:14:47,120
platform designed to bring Clarity to

362
00:14:44,519 --> 00:14:49,600
even the most polarizing topics has

363
00:14:47,120 --> 00:14:53,440
never been more important so head to

364
00:14:49,600 --> 00:14:56,079
ground. newsst StarTalk or scan the QR C

365
00:14:53,440 --> 00:14:59,199
to subscribe to ground news today we're

366
00:14:56,078 --> 00:15:01,399
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367
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368
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down to $5 a month the decisions made in

369
00:15:05,240 --> 00:15:10,198
the coming years could profoundly shape

370
00:15:07,639 --> 00:15:12,039
the future of space exploration and more

371
00:15:10,198 --> 00:15:16,039
so we really can't recommend enough

372
00:15:12,039 --> 00:15:20,078
finding clarity through ground news now

373
00:15:16,039 --> 00:15:22,480
let's get back to the show so let's talk

374
00:15:20,078 --> 00:15:24,838
physics take me to the frontier of

375
00:15:22,480 --> 00:15:28,560
particle physics today what's going on

376
00:15:24,839 --> 00:15:30,360
at CERN now that the pigs boan is

377
00:15:28,559 --> 00:15:33,518
discovered and the Nobel prizes were

378
00:15:30,360 --> 00:15:36,240
granted uh what are they doing now well

379
00:15:33,519 --> 00:15:38,560
did they just close shop and go home no

380
00:15:36,240 --> 00:15:39,720
I mean what what particle physics is

381
00:15:38,559 --> 00:15:42,239
because we're talking about quantum

382
00:15:39,720 --> 00:15:44,560
mechanics basically it's statistical in

383
00:15:42,240 --> 00:15:46,079
the sense that do you Collide what we do

384
00:15:44,559 --> 00:15:48,278
there is Collide protons together at

385
00:15:46,078 --> 00:15:50,919
high energy and we Collide a lots of

386
00:15:48,278 --> 00:15:53,519
protons together at high energy protons

387
00:15:50,919 --> 00:15:55,559
have a charge so that you can put them

388
00:15:53,519 --> 00:15:57,959
in a magnetic field and accelerate them

389
00:15:55,559 --> 00:15:59,479
yeah to very high speed yeah so so they

390
00:15:57,958 --> 00:16:02,278
go so the LHC

391
00:15:59,480 --> 00:16:05,240
in kilometers is 27 kilm and that's the

392
00:16:02,278 --> 00:16:08,519
number yeah about 60 miles or something

393
00:16:05,240 --> 00:16:11,240
like that and uh and the the protons go

394
00:16:08,519 --> 00:16:13,839
around that ring uh 11,000 times a

395
00:16:11,240 --> 00:16:16,278
second so that's how fast they go that's

396
00:16:13,839 --> 00:16:19,040
fast that's

397
00:16:16,278 --> 00:16:22,159
99.999999% the speed of light okay so

398
00:16:19,039 --> 00:16:25,198
you you've granted them energy so that

399
00:16:22,159 --> 00:16:28,439
when you Collide them you break them

400
00:16:25,198 --> 00:16:29,439
apart you're basically deconstructing

401
00:16:28,440 --> 00:16:33,279
nature

402
00:16:29,440 --> 00:16:35,480
to see what residue comes out of it when

403
00:16:33,278 --> 00:16:37,919
I think of doing that for anything else

404
00:16:35,480 --> 00:16:39,680
it's going to break right I don't take

405
00:16:37,919 --> 00:16:42,399
chairs and slam them together and still

406
00:16:39,679 --> 00:16:47,479
have chairs I have a pile

407
00:16:42,399 --> 00:16:50,720
of of kindling okay so who ever thought

408
00:16:47,480 --> 00:16:52,920
it was a good idea to smash nature into

409
00:16:50,720 --> 00:16:56,199
itself well um I suppose ER is

410
00:16:52,919 --> 00:16:59,000
Rutherford initially um so we go back to

411
00:16:56,198 --> 00:17:02,479
Manchester the turn of the 20th century

412
00:16:59,000 --> 00:17:05,838
and Rutherford was using radioactive

413
00:17:02,480 --> 00:17:07,599
decay to um essentially produce the

414
00:17:05,838 --> 00:17:09,599
particles I mean it's just the the decay

415
00:17:07,599 --> 00:17:11,639
of the decay of atomic nuclei that

416
00:17:09,599 --> 00:17:13,879
naturally happens to produce high energy

417
00:17:11,640 --> 00:17:17,640
particles which he then fired into gold

418
00:17:13,880 --> 00:17:19,360
foil and bounced them off the foil in

419
00:17:17,640 --> 00:17:22,120
doing that he discovered the atomic

420
00:17:19,359 --> 00:17:24,438
nucleus so you one way to think about

421
00:17:22,119 --> 00:17:25,639
particle physics is that you when you

422
00:17:24,439 --> 00:17:27,798
Collide things together what are you

423
00:17:25,640 --> 00:17:29,960
doing you you're really building a

424
00:17:27,798 --> 00:17:31,200
microscope one way to think of it is

425
00:17:29,960 --> 00:17:32,798
that the higher the energy of the

426
00:17:31,200 --> 00:17:35,798
Collision the the faster these things

427
00:17:32,798 --> 00:17:38,038
are traveling uh the smaller the the

428
00:17:35,798 --> 00:17:40,160
smaller the objects you can see so we

429
00:17:38,038 --> 00:17:42,879
were talking about seeing for the first

430
00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:46,558
time in those experiments the atomic

431
00:17:42,880 --> 00:17:48,440
nucleus and you move forward to the um

432
00:17:46,558 --> 00:17:50,639
you well ultimately through the 50s and

433
00:17:48,440 --> 00:17:52,558
60s and we have higher and higher energy

434
00:17:50,640 --> 00:17:55,640
collisions you start seeing that the

435
00:17:52,558 --> 00:17:57,200
nucleus is made of protons and neutrons

436
00:17:55,640 --> 00:17:58,960
and then you start seeing in the 50s and

437
00:17:57,200 --> 00:18:01,279
60s that the protons and neutrons are

438
00:17:58,960 --> 00:18:03,400
made of smaller things called quarks and

439
00:18:01,279 --> 00:18:04,960
so we discover those that we've not

440
00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:06,320
discovered anything smaller than that by

441
00:18:04,960 --> 00:18:08,720
the way is it because you don't have

442
00:18:06,319 --> 00:18:11,200
enough energy to bust up a quark yes

443
00:18:08,720 --> 00:18:13,759
well well or or to resolve what's inside

444
00:18:11,200 --> 00:18:15,640
it let's say to build a microscope

445
00:18:13,759 --> 00:18:18,158
because right now the inventory of

446
00:18:15,640 --> 00:18:19,320
fundamental particles includes quirks

447
00:18:18,159 --> 00:18:21,000
yeah so somebody saying that's

448
00:18:19,319 --> 00:18:22,960
fundamental which sounds a little like

449
00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:24,679
the Greeks saying atoms are fundamental

450
00:18:22,960 --> 00:18:26,640
oh no they won't be fundamental you're

451
00:18:24,679 --> 00:18:29,640
absolutely right but uh but they look

452
00:18:26,640 --> 00:18:31,799
Point like from the the point view from

453
00:18:29,640 --> 00:18:33,559
the energies that we can generate today

454
00:18:31,798 --> 00:18:34,918
but that that's one side of particle

455
00:18:33,558 --> 00:18:36,879
physics so we've been exploring the

456
00:18:34,919 --> 00:18:38,159
structure of matter which is

457
00:18:36,880 --> 00:18:40,760
historically you know it goes back to

458
00:18:38,159 --> 00:18:42,720
Rutherford I suppose and again you have

459
00:18:40,759 --> 00:18:46,279
confidence that when you break matter

460
00:18:42,720 --> 00:18:49,400
apart you didn't break the matter you're

461
00:18:46,279 --> 00:18:50,879
just deconstructing it yeah you you're

462
00:18:49,400 --> 00:18:52,559
it really I think the way to think about

463
00:18:50,880 --> 00:18:55,960
it when you think about what a collision

464
00:18:52,558 --> 00:18:59,000
is so let's say you Collide as we did at

465
00:18:55,960 --> 00:19:01,319
in my PhD electrons and protons together

466
00:18:59,000 --> 00:19:02,839
so you get an electron beam and a proton

467
00:19:01,319 --> 00:19:04,639
beam and you smash them into each other

468
00:19:02,839 --> 00:19:07,359
what's actually happening what's

469
00:19:04,640 --> 00:19:08,960
actually happening is one way that the

470
00:19:07,359 --> 00:19:11,000
Collision can happen is that the

471
00:19:08,960 --> 00:19:13,120
electron can emit a photon which is a

472
00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:15,880
particle of light and the particle of

473
00:19:13,119 --> 00:19:18,599
light goes and and and it hits the pH

474
00:19:15,880 --> 00:19:20,679
the proton now the the wavelength of

475
00:19:18,599 --> 00:19:24,038
that light which is which telling you

476
00:19:20,679 --> 00:19:25,919
how small a thing you can see is

477
00:19:24,038 --> 00:19:27,079
proportional to the energy of the thing

478
00:19:25,919 --> 00:19:29,360
that's how hard we're smashing the

479
00:19:27,079 --> 00:19:31,359
things together so the

480
00:19:29,359 --> 00:19:32,558
together yeah so faster you smash

481
00:19:31,359 --> 00:19:35,000
together the higher the energy the

482
00:19:32,558 --> 00:19:37,519
smaller the the smaller the things that

483
00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:39,480
you can see so so that's a way of

484
00:19:37,519 --> 00:19:41,240
thinking about particle collision so it

485
00:19:39,480 --> 00:19:43,159
really is a microscope in that sense

486
00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:44,679
that analogy works I'm just thinking if

487
00:19:43,159 --> 00:19:47,480
I were a proton I wouldn't want to be

488
00:19:44,679 --> 00:19:49,519
busted apart into quirks that would not

489
00:19:47,480 --> 00:19:51,319
be a nice day for me in some ways I

490
00:19:49,519 --> 00:19:53,558
suppose it's like having it's kind of

491
00:19:51,319 --> 00:19:54,720
like having an x-ray I suppose isn't it

492
00:19:53,558 --> 00:19:56,000
you're right though you hit them hard

493
00:19:54,720 --> 00:19:59,200
enough and they fall to bits but that

494
00:19:56,000 --> 00:20:01,839
would be the same for you would so

495
00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:03,798
but we we would try not to hit ex what

496
00:20:01,839 --> 00:20:04,959
the bits that I fell into no one's

497
00:20:03,798 --> 00:20:07,839
considered them

498
00:20:04,960 --> 00:20:09,200
fundamental bits of Neil but right but

499
00:20:07,839 --> 00:20:11,000
the other way to think about particle

500
00:20:09,200 --> 00:20:13,120
physics which is I think so you say the

501
00:20:11,000 --> 00:20:15,240
higs particle you mentioned so that's

502
00:20:13,119 --> 00:20:17,000
not in the proton you're not you're not

503
00:20:15,240 --> 00:20:18,440
smashing the things together and finding

504
00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:21,599
a higs particle buried in there

505
00:20:18,440 --> 00:20:23,240
somewhere the other side is really so

506
00:20:21,599 --> 00:20:26,519
you think of Einstein's famous equation

507
00:20:23,240 --> 00:20:28,679
eal mc^2 so energy and mass are

508
00:20:26,519 --> 00:20:30,319
interchangeable let's put it like that

509
00:20:28,679 --> 00:20:32,919
so it also says that if we have loads of

510
00:20:30,319 --> 00:20:35,599
energy in these collisions then we can

511
00:20:32,919 --> 00:20:37,159
make new particles that are extremely

512
00:20:35,599 --> 00:20:38,839
massive much more massive that would

513
00:20:37,159 --> 00:20:40,520
come spontaneously out of the available

514
00:20:38,839 --> 00:20:43,639
energy that would otherwise be doing

515
00:20:40,519 --> 00:20:46,798
nothing so so we have when you Collide

516
00:20:43,640 --> 00:20:50,480
protons together these energies you have

517
00:20:46,798 --> 00:20:53,359
plenty of energy there to make a higs

518
00:20:50,480 --> 00:20:55,440
particle for example or a top quar which

519
00:20:53,359 --> 00:20:58,038
is a very heavy particle as well far

520
00:20:55,440 --> 00:21:00,279
more massive than the protons so so

521
00:20:58,038 --> 00:21:02,640
that's I suppose the way to think about

522
00:21:00,279 --> 00:21:04,519
trying to manufacture higs particles so

523
00:21:02,640 --> 00:21:06,038
you can observe them you need enough

524
00:21:04,519 --> 00:21:08,519
energy to make them so you're not just

525
00:21:06,038 --> 00:21:11,359
buing them apart you're creating an

526
00:21:08,519 --> 00:21:12,720
opportunity to view more massive

527
00:21:11,359 --> 00:21:14,000
particles than would otherwise be

528
00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:16,000
available to you yeah and the other

529
00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:17,558
thing to say so to get a complete

530
00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:21,319
picture is these very massive things

531
00:21:17,558 --> 00:21:24,240
like higs particles um they they have a

532
00:21:21,319 --> 00:21:26,678
very short lifetime so you make them and

533
00:21:24,240 --> 00:21:28,159
they Decay away into lighter particles

534
00:21:26,679 --> 00:21:31,440
very very fast so you don't see the higs

535
00:21:28,159 --> 00:21:33,559
particles what you see the the debris

536
00:21:31,440 --> 00:21:35,759
from the decay of the higs particle and

537
00:21:33,558 --> 00:21:38,759
the the the the challenge of particle

538
00:21:35,759 --> 00:21:40,879
physics is to get detect all those bits

539
00:21:38,759 --> 00:21:42,400
that came off basically and by the way

540
00:21:40,880 --> 00:21:43,840
you also have the bits of the protons

541
00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:46,278
that all got smashed up as well so it's

542
00:21:43,839 --> 00:21:49,319
a big mess and we have more

543
00:21:46,278 --> 00:21:52,200
than these these it's very hard because

544
00:21:49,319 --> 00:21:55,079
you don't only have one proton Collision

545
00:21:52,200 --> 00:21:57,319
per we we we send the particles around

546
00:21:55,079 --> 00:22:00,199
in little bunches basically so you can

547
00:21:57,319 --> 00:22:02,960
get 10 20 30 collisions at the same time

548
00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:05,319
only one of them on a very good day will

549
00:22:02,960 --> 00:22:06,640
be an interesting one and and then so

550
00:22:05,319 --> 00:22:09,000
you've got to sift through all this

551
00:22:06,640 --> 00:22:10,480
which is the the the difficulty or the

552
00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:12,558
professional challenge let's say of

553
00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:15,120
particle physics with that reasoning

554
00:22:12,558 --> 00:22:17,918
there's always some next energy level

555
00:22:15,119 --> 00:22:19,399
that you haven't visited yes where more

556
00:22:17,919 --> 00:22:21,360
and interesting physics can reveal

557
00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:24,880
itself and this is where it gets um

558
00:22:21,359 --> 00:22:26,639
challenging at the moment because so the

559
00:22:24,880 --> 00:22:29,080
the so-called standard model higs

560
00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:31,919
particle and I should just that for a

561
00:22:29,079 --> 00:22:33,918
minute that that thing the existence of

562
00:22:31,919 --> 00:22:38,000
this thing was predicted in the 1960s by

563
00:22:33,919 --> 00:22:40,919
Peter higs and others and um it was a

564
00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:43,679
suggestion a theory a guess let's say at

565
00:22:40,919 --> 00:22:45,440
the time mathematically motivated almost

566
00:22:43,679 --> 00:22:48,440
purely by the way mathematically

567
00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:51,278
motivated of how things get mass in the

568
00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:54,360
universe at the most fundamental level

569
00:22:51,278 --> 00:22:56,440
how the quarks and the these these very

570
00:22:54,359 --> 00:22:59,599
heavy things called the w and z bosons

571
00:22:56,440 --> 00:23:01,278
that how how those things got m

572
00:22:59,599 --> 00:23:04,240
um and so it was a a mathematical

573
00:23:01,278 --> 00:23:07,960
construct it predicted that there should

574
00:23:04,240 --> 00:23:10,359
be in the simplest case one this thing

575
00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:15,000
the higs Bose on but there could be more

576
00:23:10,359 --> 00:23:17,678
complicated versions and so we knew that

577
00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:19,359
if we collided protons together at the

578
00:23:17,679 --> 00:23:22,278
energies that we generate at the large

579
00:23:19,359 --> 00:23:25,000
handron collider then we would either

580
00:23:22,278 --> 00:23:28,640
discover the higs BOS on and prove this

581
00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:30,240
Theory to be correct or we knew that if

582
00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:34,200
it wasn't there we would see something

583
00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:36,679
else so we had a very clear idea from

584
00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:38,840
experiment and theory that we were going

585
00:23:36,679 --> 00:23:40,840
to discover something with that machine

586
00:23:38,839 --> 00:23:42,959
and you don't know what it is it turned

587
00:23:40,839 --> 00:23:44,839
out it was the simplest thing it was

588
00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:46,640
this thing that Peter higs had had

589
00:23:44,839 --> 00:23:49,720
dreamt of for all those years ago which

590
00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:51,240
is astonishing by the way 50 years after

591
00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:52,480
the prediction and there's there's a

592
00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:54,400
great essay that you might know by

593
00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:56,360
Eugene vigner called the unreasonable

594
00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:58,640
effectiveness of mathematics physical

595
00:23:56,359 --> 00:24:00,639
sciences I think that's the one of the

596
00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:03,640
best examples it's an astonishing

597
00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:06,240
achievement that we got it right and so

598
00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:09,520
so we discover the higs Bo on to put

599
00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:12,558
Precision on that that winer's the point

600
00:24:09,519 --> 00:24:16,480
in that paper it's not that math in a

601
00:24:12,558 --> 00:24:17,879
vacuum no pun intended makes discoveries

602
00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:20,360
it's the

603
00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:23,600
mathematical representation of a

604
00:24:20,359 --> 00:24:25,000
physical idea yeah and then you pursue

605
00:24:23,599 --> 00:24:28,439
the

606
00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:32,679
math and it applies to the universe but

607
00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:35,038
only if the physical idea

608
00:24:32,679 --> 00:24:37,440
is has captured reality in some

609
00:24:35,038 --> 00:24:40,079
fundamental way although the what it was

610
00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:41,798
I think the it was a a very a very

611
00:24:40,079 --> 00:24:44,158
mathematical framework which became the

612
00:24:41,798 --> 00:24:46,960
standard model of particle physics based

613
00:24:44,159 --> 00:24:49,399
on ideas of symmetries and all sorts of

614
00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:51,480
beautiful ideas which which really did

615
00:24:49,398 --> 00:24:54,398
have mathematical foundations so there's

616
00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:56,558
an aesthetic sense I think built into

617
00:24:54,398 --> 00:24:59,839
that model and that would be the pure

618
00:24:56,558 --> 00:25:01,839
mathematical see I'm you know my people

619
00:24:59,839 --> 00:25:06,038
in astrophysics we have enough

620
00:25:01,839 --> 00:25:09,798
embarrassing historical examples of

621
00:25:06,038 --> 00:25:12,440
chasing know elegance and Kepler Kepler

622
00:25:09,798 --> 00:25:14,359
I'm saying look at Kepler but the I I

623
00:25:12,440 --> 00:25:16,038
think the genius of Kepler he had these

624
00:25:14,359 --> 00:25:18,119
platonic solids in these ideas right

625
00:25:16,038 --> 00:25:20,480
he's got the pyramid and the cube and

626
00:25:18,119 --> 00:25:24,879
the this and then he rejected it Based

627
00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:27,798
on data yes in 16 but his his first

628
00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:30,320
thought was the universe is beautiful

629
00:25:27,798 --> 00:25:32,759
and divine and perfect and these solids

630
00:25:30,319 --> 00:25:34,960
are perfect planets are in the universe

631
00:25:32,759 --> 00:25:36,879
so it must be a connection he spent 10

632
00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:38,120
years looking at it yeah and but then

633
00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:40,559
but then he rejected it and then the

634
00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:42,239
laws of planetary motion which which are

635
00:25:40,558 --> 00:25:43,918
indicative of a very beautiful thing

636
00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:46,399
which is Newton's law of gravitation an

637
00:25:43,919 --> 00:25:48,278
inverse Square law and so there is a

638
00:25:46,398 --> 00:25:50,599
there's a beauty underlying it but only

639
00:25:48,278 --> 00:25:52,759
after he had to scrap this other beauty

640
00:25:50,599 --> 00:25:55,599
that he had presumed it would be that's

641
00:25:52,759 --> 00:25:57,599
why we we step lightly when someone says

642
00:25:55,599 --> 00:26:00,079
I have this beautiful idea yeah okay

643
00:25:57,599 --> 00:26:02,359
let's hear it but but it is true that

644
00:26:00,079 --> 00:26:05,599
and I think it's one of the great

645
00:26:02,359 --> 00:26:07,918
Mysteries that that that there is um

646
00:26:05,599 --> 00:26:09,959
historically Einstein's theory general

647
00:26:07,919 --> 00:26:11,960
relativity is another example where

648
00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:14,278
where a quest for Simplicity and beauty

649
00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:18,200
and elegance which are judgments right

650
00:26:14,278 --> 00:26:19,839
the human judgments has led to very very

651
00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:22,679
precise models of the way that nature

652
00:26:19,839 --> 00:26:24,879
Works given that CERN which has the

653
00:26:22,679 --> 00:26:28,600
large hyron collider

654
00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:30,120
LHC discovered the higs boson if you to

655
00:26:28,599 --> 00:26:33,519
discover more particles presumably you

656
00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:35,959
have to keep sort of upgrading the

657
00:26:33,519 --> 00:26:39,359
system as the LHC was compared to what

658
00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:42,600
was there before so that you can ever

659
00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:45,199
with ever greater force bust into the

660
00:26:42,599 --> 00:26:48,079
particles and see what's lurking so we

661
00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:51,519
can't increase the energy of the LHC

662
00:26:48,079 --> 00:26:54,720
very easily so or even easily or we

663
00:26:51,519 --> 00:26:57,558
can't really so that that would be a

664
00:26:54,720 --> 00:27:00,640
major change to the machine but what we

665
00:26:57,558 --> 00:27:03,240
can do and are doing is so-called High

666
00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:05,960
Luminosity upgrades which means you

667
00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:08,200
Collide more protons together and the

668
00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:10,519
thing about um so then you win on the

669
00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:12,679
statistics of the partical physics is

670
00:27:10,519 --> 00:27:15,278
it's a quantum mechanics and so things

671
00:27:12,679 --> 00:27:17,360
happen statistically so so it's you know

672
00:27:15,278 --> 00:27:19,359
one in I don't know the numbers off to

673
00:27:17,359 --> 00:27:21,240
my one in 10 billion collisions you'll

674
00:27:19,359 --> 00:27:24,398
produce something like interesting a

675
00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:26,720
higs it's less than that but um so so

676
00:27:24,398 --> 00:27:28,798
when when giving yourself more

677
00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:32,000
collisions gives you

678
00:27:28,798 --> 00:27:34,240
more chance to discover new particles

679
00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:37,759
and it gives you more particles like

680
00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:40,319
higs bosons to explore if you get a higs

681
00:27:37,759 --> 00:27:43,119
particle after however many collisions

682
00:27:40,319 --> 00:27:45,639
and that's kind of rare if you have more

683
00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:47,518
collisions you'll get more higs yeah to

684
00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:49,080
improve your statistics on what the hell

685
00:27:47,519 --> 00:27:52,000
the higs is yeah because we want to know

686
00:27:49,079 --> 00:27:55,319
but then there could be a reaction

687
00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:57,240
that's even rarer to manifest than the

688
00:27:55,319 --> 00:27:58,879
higs and if your sample wasn't large

689
00:27:57,240 --> 00:28:01,359
enough you would just never go there yes

690
00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:04,519
you wouldn't see it if you just made one

691
00:28:01,359 --> 00:28:07,398
thing one particle you know what one

692
00:28:04,519 --> 00:28:09,278
whatever it is the higs prime whatever

693
00:28:07,398 --> 00:28:11,439
if you made one of those then you

694
00:28:09,278 --> 00:28:14,960
wouldn't see it if you made one of

695
00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:17,320
them superhero Nemesis I'm higs Prime

696
00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:19,120
you know I've come toy by the way and we

697
00:28:17,319 --> 00:28:21,278
do look for those things Zed Prime the

698
00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:22,398
zos on we look for the Z primes because

699
00:28:21,278 --> 00:28:23,880
they can be signatures of extra

700
00:28:22,398 --> 00:28:25,759
dimensions in the universe by the way so

701
00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:28,840
we look for this stuff but the point is

702
00:28:25,759 --> 00:28:31,119
that if something is very very rare

703
00:28:28,839 --> 00:28:32,519
then you you won't really see it if you

704
00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:34,079
just make one or two of them you need to

705
00:28:32,519 --> 00:28:35,798
make hundreds or thousands or whatever

706
00:28:34,079 --> 00:28:37,960
it is to see them yeah it's like how

707
00:28:35,798 --> 00:28:39,319
many people have to live in a city

708
00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:41,640
before you stumble on someone who's

709
00:28:39,319 --> 00:28:45,200
seven feet tall yeah that's statistic

710
00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:47,159
statistically you yeah you need so

711
00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:49,080
possibly Millions yeah so so the

712
00:28:47,159 --> 00:28:50,720
upgrades are the the upgrades that we

713
00:28:49,079 --> 00:28:52,639
can do and it's you have to upgrade the

714
00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:54,440
detectors the cameras that we use as

715
00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:56,278
well as the machine okay so you kept the

716
00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:57,480
same hole in the ground yeah yeah

717
00:28:56,278 --> 00:28:59,759
because we don't want to dig another one

718
00:28:57,480 --> 00:29:01,079
of those or change other magnets around

719
00:28:59,759 --> 00:29:02,200
which are very expensive does that hole

720
00:29:01,079 --> 00:29:03,759
go through more than one country or is

721
00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:05,640
it all contain intland France and

722
00:29:03,759 --> 00:29:07,879
Switzerland wow okay yeah most of it's

723
00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:10,600
in France actually oh didn't know only a

724
00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:12,440
little bit of it's in Switzerland okay

725
00:29:10,599 --> 00:29:15,359
so that's one thing and and the other

726
00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:17,519
thing is this higs that we've discovered

727
00:29:15,359 --> 00:29:20,038
that this the question Still Remains is

728
00:29:17,519 --> 00:29:23,159
it the the simplest one the standard

729
00:29:20,038 --> 00:29:25,119
model higs called or is it something

730
00:29:23,159 --> 00:29:27,440
more complicated how does it behave so

731
00:29:25,119 --> 00:29:29,839
the analogy in in in planetary science

732
00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:31,840
would be yeah we discovered a moon and

733
00:29:29,839 --> 00:29:33,519
so you go great then you would like to

734
00:29:31,839 --> 00:29:34,918
know about the moon you don't want to

735
00:29:33,519 --> 00:29:37,640
just say we've discovered this moon it's

736
00:29:34,919 --> 00:29:39,120
a DOT that's fine as you said they're

737
00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:41,159
interest want characterize it in

738
00:29:39,119 --> 00:29:45,599
whatever way you can for that you need a

739
00:29:41,159 --> 00:29:48,039
lot of them to to observe so so so it's

740
00:29:45,599 --> 00:29:50,319
it's exciting that but and it's

741
00:29:48,038 --> 00:29:52,599
challenging because I I think for the

742
00:29:50,319 --> 00:29:55,558
first time it's probably true to say in

743
00:29:52,599 --> 00:29:57,639
particle physics we don't know if

744
00:29:55,558 --> 00:29:58,558
there's anything else just around the

745
00:29:57,640 --> 00:30:02,278
corner

746
00:29:58,558 --> 00:30:03,639
which is bad you know but it's also good

747
00:30:02,278 --> 00:30:05,359
I suppose it's just science I mean

748
00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:07,080
ultimately it's neither bad nor good

749
00:30:05,359 --> 00:30:09,398
it's the way nature is that's that's

750
00:30:07,079 --> 00:30:11,558
what triggers whatever next round of

751
00:30:09,398 --> 00:30:13,678
physics is complete yeah you know you

752
00:30:11,558 --> 00:30:15,440
get PE you get those people that show up

753
00:30:13,679 --> 00:30:18,240
and say there's nothing left in physics

754
00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:20,480
to discover well they be they show up

755
00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:21,720
every few decad so utterly wrong that

756
00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:24,880
they're not even

757
00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:26,640
worth I mean you know there's tremendous

758
00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:28,840
progress being it's such an exciting

759
00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:32,559
time in fundamental physics mhm at the

760
00:30:28,839 --> 00:30:34,158
moment that uh particle physics not only

761
00:30:32,558 --> 00:30:35,440
particle physics but we said

762
00:30:34,159 --> 00:30:37,960
gravitational

763
00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:40,840
astronomy the the the exploration of the

764
00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:43,159
force of gravity black holes Quantum

765
00:30:40,839 --> 00:30:45,519
information which is related to Quantum

766
00:30:43,159 --> 00:30:48,399
Computing and also all that stuff is is

767
00:30:45,519 --> 00:30:51,319
to me utterly fascinating there's some

768
00:30:48,398 --> 00:30:53,199
really interesting I read some stuff the

769
00:30:51,319 --> 00:30:55,038
other day which I don't fully understand

770
00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:58,038
actually um some of the progress in

771
00:30:55,038 --> 00:31:01,119
string theory it's interesting because

772
00:30:58,038 --> 00:31:03,599
just as an decide it's linking it seems

773
00:31:01,119 --> 00:31:04,839
to me it's linking one of the great

774
00:31:03,599 --> 00:31:06,599
Mysteries which is the so-called

775
00:31:04,839 --> 00:31:09,038
cosmological constant so the fact that

776
00:31:06,599 --> 00:31:11,319
we observed that the universe is

777
00:31:09,038 --> 00:31:13,519
accelerating in its expansion and Nobel

778
00:31:11,319 --> 00:31:15,678
Prize has been given for the observation

779
00:31:13,519 --> 00:31:17,519
not for the understanding yes he a

780
00:31:15,679 --> 00:31:20,399
friend of mine who by the way didn't

781
00:31:17,519 --> 00:31:22,159
believe his he he didn't believe it when

782
00:31:20,398 --> 00:31:23,839
he saw it because it wasn't in the air

783
00:31:22,159 --> 00:31:27,600
this idea he was looking at light from

784
00:31:23,839 --> 00:31:29,879
Supernova super I'm on I'm on a paper

785
00:31:27,599 --> 00:31:32,719
with briyan Schmidt yeah I I'm like very

786
00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:34,200
minor author uh you have to scroll down

787
00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:36,600
and then like my name is in the super

788
00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:38,880
NOA yeah but it was it was it was

789
00:31:36,599 --> 00:31:41,038
analysis of high red ship supern noi

790
00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:42,679
yeah and I I totally enjoyed that work

791
00:31:41,038 --> 00:31:45,720
but he obviously went on and made an

792
00:31:42,679 --> 00:31:48,399
entire sort of yeah branch of his career

793
00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:50,399
on it so there's this remarkable idea

794
00:31:48,398 --> 00:31:53,239
that which comes from that which is

795
00:31:50,398 --> 00:31:55,278
which is in Einstein's theory this idea

796
00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:57,120
that you can you can have a kind of

797
00:31:55,278 --> 00:31:58,919
energy in the universe let's say or a

798
00:31:57,119 --> 00:32:00,638
thing whatever it is because we don't

799
00:31:58,919 --> 00:32:02,720
know what it is but something that makes

800
00:32:00,638 --> 00:32:06,240
the universe that the rate the the space

801
00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:08,079
stretches increase which is uh so that

802
00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:10,519
that's there and it's observed it's one

803
00:32:08,079 --> 00:32:14,240
of the great Mysteries because it's I

804
00:32:10,519 --> 00:32:17,159
think it's the smallest number in all of

805
00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:22,000
physics by what is it it's something

806
00:32:17,159 --> 00:32:24,039
like a 10 the^ minus 122 or something in

807
00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:26,398
appropriate units right which is

808
00:32:24,038 --> 00:32:29,960
absolutely ridiculously so so it's a

809
00:32:26,398 --> 00:32:33,518
tiny tiny tiny tiny thing that's causing

810
00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:35,558
this rate of expansion um but it's not

811
00:32:33,519 --> 00:32:37,638
zero and so the question becomes why is

812
00:32:35,558 --> 00:32:39,720
it tiny the the why is it tiny and not

813
00:32:37,638 --> 00:32:41,439
zero yeah yeah and and so because if it

814
00:32:39,720 --> 00:32:42,679
were even slightly bigger we wouldn't be

815
00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:45,399
here so the universe would have been

816
00:32:42,679 --> 00:32:48,000
blown apart so it seems very unusual but

817
00:32:45,398 --> 00:32:49,239
I I saw the other week or the other day

818
00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:52,200
actually that there's some research

819
00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:55,200
that's linking that in in a in a in the

820
00:32:52,200 --> 00:33:01,000
framework of a string theory uh or M

821
00:32:55,200 --> 00:33:02,240
Theory to uh matter so so so there

822
00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:05,519
there's a kind of an idea that if you

823
00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:08,359
fix that you get a prediction out that

824
00:33:05,519 --> 00:33:09,599
there should be um dark matter but it

825
00:33:08,359 --> 00:33:11,678
turns out it's to do with extra

826
00:33:09,599 --> 00:33:13,558
dimensions and gravitons in extra

827
00:33:11,679 --> 00:33:15,600
dimensions and things so it's it's quite

828
00:33:13,558 --> 00:33:17,319
but it's quite interesting so I think

829
00:33:15,599 --> 00:33:19,519
there there are some very interesting

830
00:33:17,319 --> 00:33:21,678
areas of string theory where progress is

831
00:33:19,519 --> 00:33:24,159
being made quite remarkably do string

832
00:33:21,679 --> 00:33:26,720
theorist need a fuller or better

833
00:33:24,159 --> 00:33:28,440
inventory of particles so for example

834
00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:31,159
are we still looking for a gravit

835
00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:32,639
are we still looking for you know every

836
00:33:31,159 --> 00:33:35,200
you shake a stick and there's a

837
00:33:32,638 --> 00:33:37,599
physicist proposing a hypothetical

838
00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:39,720
particle to explain Dark Matter to

839
00:33:37,599 --> 00:33:42,119
explain wouldn't it be cool if the Dark

840
00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:44,839
Matter were related to gravitons which

841
00:33:42,119 --> 00:33:47,038
is that this is not my field I only

842
00:33:44,839 --> 00:33:48,879
heard of it the other day but it sounded

843
00:33:47,038 --> 00:33:52,960
interesting but it just shows you that

844
00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:56,639
we so to go back the to to

845
00:33:52,960 --> 00:34:00,600
LHC um we have the higs particle as you

846
00:33:56,638 --> 00:34:02,199
said um we had expected I would say most

847
00:34:00,599 --> 00:34:04,278
particle physicists expected there would

848
00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:07,080
be other particles discovered there's a

849
00:34:04,278 --> 00:34:08,639
particular that same experiment yeah LC

850
00:34:07,079 --> 00:34:10,799
so there's a particular Theory which

851
00:34:08,639 --> 00:34:13,838
which motivated by String Theory a long

852
00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:16,800
time ago called super symmetry which is

853
00:34:13,838 --> 00:34:18,878
a a property of the universe we we we

854
00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:20,200
it's been around for many decades and it

855
00:34:18,878 --> 00:34:22,878
came initially

856
00:34:20,199 --> 00:34:24,598
from either from String Theory are from

857
00:34:22,878 --> 00:34:26,199
some other is it got Incorporated in I

858
00:34:24,599 --> 00:34:28,519
can't remember historically which way it

859
00:34:26,199 --> 00:34:30,480
came but it's um

860
00:34:28,519 --> 00:34:32,800
but it's it essentially predicts that

861
00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:34,838
there are double the number of particles

862
00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:37,760
that we see fundamental particles at

863
00:34:34,838 --> 00:34:39,559
this energy so so we and they would have

864
00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:41,720
been great candidates for dark matter by

865
00:34:39,559 --> 00:34:44,078
the way which is astrophysical

866
00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:45,959
Discovery so we should say I suppose the

867
00:34:44,079 --> 00:34:48,560
one the one sentence description the

868
00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:50,398
dark matter is that we see the the the

869
00:34:48,559 --> 00:34:52,480
universe there's far much more ma matter

870
00:34:50,398 --> 00:34:54,358
in the universe than we can see see I I

871
00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:58,199
would put it differently yeah I would

872
00:34:54,358 --> 00:35:01,440
say there's far it's not dark matter

873
00:34:58,199 --> 00:35:02,838
it's dark gravity well you say matter we

874
00:35:01,440 --> 00:35:04,240
don't know what we don't know what it is

875
00:35:02,838 --> 00:35:06,519
well true so so you see it through its

876
00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:09,039
gravitational inter so it's dark gravity

877
00:35:06,519 --> 00:35:12,320
yeah we don't see otherwise you get

878
00:35:09,039 --> 00:35:15,400
newspaper headlines say oh uh we must

879
00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:17,838
abandon our ideas of Dark Matter well if

880
00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:19,838
it's not matter it's still there okay

881
00:35:17,838 --> 00:35:22,078
it's misnamed yes I see what you mean I

882
00:35:19,838 --> 00:35:24,400
mean I I I that's a cool newspaper by

883
00:35:22,079 --> 00:35:25,640
the way that would have a headline like

884
00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:28,079
that it goes there at all she usually

885
00:35:25,639 --> 00:35:30,239
about a football player and so I'm on

886
00:35:28,079 --> 00:35:31,519
board with that newspaper yeah I'm just

887
00:35:30,239 --> 00:35:34,039
saying if we don't know what it is we

888
00:35:31,519 --> 00:35:35,759
had no business calling it matter at all

889
00:35:34,039 --> 00:35:38,358
so the thing to say though is dark

890
00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:40,079
Gravity the best which sounds cool so

891
00:35:38,358 --> 00:35:43,039
you build model you build models and it

892
00:35:40,079 --> 00:35:44,960
is true that the best model that fits

893
00:35:43,039 --> 00:35:47,079
all the data which is not just the way

894
00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:49,519
that gravit that that galaxies rotate

895
00:35:47,079 --> 00:35:52,280
and and Collide and and the way that

896
00:35:49,519 --> 00:35:54,400
gravities galaxies kind of lens light

897
00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:56,000
and all those things but also the cosmic

898
00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:57,920
microwave background radiation which is

899
00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:59,960
the oldest light in the universe and and

900
00:35:57,920 --> 00:36:01,280
how that worked and how the ripples the

901
00:35:59,960 --> 00:36:03,000
sound waves went through the early

902
00:36:01,280 --> 00:36:05,599
universe and all that you put it all

903
00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:09,400
together and and it it fits if you have

904
00:36:05,599 --> 00:36:12,838
a a light a lsh particle that does not

905
00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:15,160
interact with light but interacts weakly

906
00:36:12,838 --> 00:36:18,279
so this would be another category of

907
00:36:15,159 --> 00:36:20,480
particle in the particle soup yeah that

908
00:36:18,280 --> 00:36:22,839
has gravity but doesn't interact

909
00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:25,599
electromagnetically or only very weakly

910
00:36:22,838 --> 00:36:26,799
and so just it's all right so that

911
00:36:25,599 --> 00:36:28,680
that's a model though you're right so

912
00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:31,640
that's a model which is kind of I would

913
00:36:28,679 --> 00:36:33,559
said the Baseline model the people

914
00:36:31,639 --> 00:36:37,440
assume that and I don't have a problem

915
00:36:33,559 --> 00:36:39,838
with it but if anything happens to that

916
00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:41,720
model it gets shown it can't be true

917
00:36:39,838 --> 00:36:43,078
people oh then there is no dark matter

918
00:36:41,719 --> 00:36:45,039
no there's still dark it is a

919
00:36:43,079 --> 00:36:47,760
measurement in the universe we just

920
00:36:45,039 --> 00:36:50,559
misnamed it yeah I agree the measurement

921
00:36:47,760 --> 00:36:51,960
is just galaxies spin round too fast but

922
00:36:50,559 --> 00:36:54,318
too fast there it is or the way they

923
00:36:51,960 --> 00:36:56,159
Collide and and so on there's quite a

924
00:36:54,318 --> 00:36:58,159
lot of independent measurements of this

925
00:36:56,159 --> 00:36:59,920
thing so tell me about Gra I mean is

926
00:36:58,159 --> 00:37:01,639
that a real particle I think most

927
00:36:59,920 --> 00:37:05,159
physicists would say that quantum

928
00:37:01,639 --> 00:37:06,118
mechanics requires is is the base is the

929
00:37:05,159 --> 00:37:09,078
base

930
00:37:06,119 --> 00:37:10,960
Theory I think the reason I'm careful is

931
00:37:09,079 --> 00:37:12,720
because there is some people who would

932
00:37:10,960 --> 00:37:14,720
say general relativity is is a thing

933
00:37:12,719 --> 00:37:16,358
space time is a real thing and all that

934
00:37:14,719 --> 00:37:17,559
but but I think generally most people

935
00:37:16,358 --> 00:37:19,598
would say quantum mechanics is

936
00:37:17,559 --> 00:37:20,639
underlining and that that would if you

937
00:37:19,599 --> 00:37:23,000
have an interaction in other words

938
00:37:20,639 --> 00:37:25,039
quantum physics is foundational yeah to

939
00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:27,639
the universe in ways that even general

940
00:37:25,039 --> 00:37:29,519
relativity would not be yeah so we we

941
00:37:27,639 --> 00:37:33,199
talk about this later but the idea that

942
00:37:29,519 --> 00:37:36,119
space and time or space time emerge from

943
00:37:33,199 --> 00:37:38,118
a quantum theory is very fashionable at

944
00:37:36,119 --> 00:37:39,599
the moment partly because of the study

945
00:37:38,119 --> 00:37:43,480
of black holes so we could talk about

946
00:37:39,599 --> 00:37:45,440
that but so so given that then you so I

947
00:37:43,480 --> 00:37:47,318
I should say just for people who are

948
00:37:45,440 --> 00:37:49,358
watching and listening that um so how

949
00:37:47,318 --> 00:37:51,960
would we picture the electromagnetic

950
00:37:49,358 --> 00:37:53,598
force in particle physics so you know

951
00:37:51,960 --> 00:37:56,039
that if you put like charges together

952
00:37:53,599 --> 00:37:58,599
they repel and and so on so so what's

953
00:37:56,039 --> 00:37:59,920
happening there or if you bring magnets

954
00:37:58,599 --> 00:38:01,640
together right they repel each other

955
00:37:59,920 --> 00:38:03,200
everybody knows if the North Pole

956
00:38:01,639 --> 00:38:06,000
together and they repel so what's

957
00:38:03,199 --> 00:38:08,239
happening in particle physics terms you

958
00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:11,039
you picture that as the exchange of a

959
00:38:08,239 --> 00:38:12,719
photon it's a particle of light goes

960
00:38:11,039 --> 00:38:15,279
from one particle to the other and

961
00:38:12,719 --> 00:38:17,078
essentially carries the force so that's

962
00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:22,040
that's what our particle physicist would

963
00:38:17,079 --> 00:38:24,480
picture a that force all forces have we

964
00:38:22,039 --> 00:38:28,159
successfully applied that to gravity no

965
00:38:24,480 --> 00:38:31,119
so that's the point so so so so but you

966
00:38:28,159 --> 00:38:32,598
the give me a more resonant no the very

967
00:38:31,119 --> 00:38:34,960
the very

968
00:38:32,599 --> 00:38:36,720
strong I suppose I'm trying to find the

969
00:38:34,960 --> 00:38:38,599
right word for it I think it's that's

970
00:38:36,719 --> 00:38:39,838
why I said conviction it's almost I

971
00:38:38,599 --> 00:38:41,519
don't know if any physicists who would

972
00:38:39,838 --> 00:38:45,559
disagree with because if you can't fold

973
00:38:41,519 --> 00:38:47,318
it into the quantum world you don't

974
00:38:45,559 --> 00:38:49,358
really have a right to start looking for

975
00:38:47,318 --> 00:38:51,599
a graviton because you're going to say

976
00:38:49,358 --> 00:38:53,199
the graviton is the mediating particle

977
00:38:51,599 --> 00:38:56,800
yes so it's the way the photon is the

978
00:38:53,199 --> 00:38:58,000
med particle so and that's um I I think

979
00:38:56,800 --> 00:39:00,599
I don't think you'd find anyone who

980
00:38:58,000 --> 00:39:03,079
would disagree with that statement okay

981
00:39:00,599 --> 00:39:05,559
although I don't think you would

982
00:39:03,079 --> 00:39:07,599
although it is true to say that because

983
00:39:05,559 --> 00:39:10,400
gravity is so weak so this is the other

984
00:39:07,599 --> 00:39:12,838
thing to say it is tremendously weak

985
00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:14,800
compared to the other three forces of

986
00:39:12,838 --> 00:39:16,000
nature of which electrom magnetism is

987
00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:17,920
one here I tell people you've surely

988
00:39:16,000 --> 00:39:20,199
done this in class they say how weak is

989
00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:22,760
gravity well I can pick something up off

990
00:39:20,199 --> 00:39:24,679
the floor against the wishes of Earth

991
00:39:22,760 --> 00:39:27,079
exactly yeah yeah the whole earth is

992
00:39:24,679 --> 00:39:29,879
pulling on this ball and I can just pick

993
00:39:27,079 --> 00:39:31,640
it up off and and kick kick it and

994
00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:33,119
you're using electromagnetism that's

995
00:39:31,639 --> 00:39:34,279
what's happening so your muscles and all

996
00:39:33,119 --> 00:39:36,160
that thing so this is all

997
00:39:34,280 --> 00:39:37,880
electromagnetic force which completely

998
00:39:36,159 --> 00:39:42,159
destroys as you said the gravitational

999
00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:44,079
force um but gravity is only additive so

1000
00:39:42,159 --> 00:39:46,838
it only adds up in the universe so is a

1001
00:39:44,079 --> 00:39:49,000
do is the dominant force on Cosmic

1002
00:39:46,838 --> 00:39:50,759
distance scales that's the point about

1003
00:39:49,000 --> 00:39:53,599
gravity here's a calculation I haven't

1004
00:39:50,760 --> 00:39:55,960
verified but it sounded legit uh very

1005
00:39:53,599 --> 00:39:58,200
verifiable I just never I was too lazy

1006
00:39:55,960 --> 00:40:00,760
that uh if you take like the space

1007
00:39:58,199 --> 00:40:04,799
shuttle in its Glory Days and you take

1008
00:40:00,760 --> 00:40:09,200
one remove the electrons from one cubic

1009
00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:11,119
centimeter in the nose of the main tank

1010
00:40:09,199 --> 00:40:13,960
and take all those electrons and put it

1011
00:40:11,119 --> 00:40:15,519
at the base of the Launchpad it could

1012
00:40:13,960 --> 00:40:17,720
would not be able to launch the

1013
00:40:15,519 --> 00:40:19,679
attraction between the electrons at the

1014
00:40:17,719 --> 00:40:21,598
base of the launch pad and the net

1015
00:40:19,679 --> 00:40:24,118
positive charge at the top right yeah is

1016
00:40:21,599 --> 00:40:26,039
enough to prevent it from launching yeah

1017
00:40:24,119 --> 00:40:29,318
that's a cool idea I could see that that

1018
00:40:26,039 --> 00:40:32,639
would be yeah yeah actually would yeah

1019
00:40:29,318 --> 00:40:36,400
borrow a whole so it probably yeah it's

1020
00:40:32,639 --> 00:40:38,239
not a realistic experiment but to get

1021
00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:39,720
some sense of the forces involved yeah

1022
00:40:38,239 --> 00:40:41,399
that's a really nice okay so gravity is

1023
00:40:39,719 --> 00:40:43,000
weak that somehow bails you out of this

1024
00:40:41,400 --> 00:40:45,440
problem well it just means that you

1025
00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:48,318
can't we don't have experimental access

1026
00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:50,599
to them okay because it's so weak I

1027
00:40:48,318 --> 00:40:54,039
agree so whereas we do have experimental

1028
00:40:50,599 --> 00:40:57,318
access to photons yeah unless you could

1029
00:40:54,039 --> 00:40:59,279
potentially have access if there were

1030
00:40:57,318 --> 00:41:01,079
extra dimensions in the universe that

1031
00:40:59,280 --> 00:41:02,599
are configured in the right way

1032
00:41:01,079 --> 00:41:05,240
physicist always throwing in extra

1033
00:41:02,599 --> 00:41:06,640
Dimensions whenever you need it you know

1034
00:41:05,239 --> 00:41:10,679
it is interesting though that that

1035
00:41:06,639 --> 00:41:14,078
string theory Works in 10 dimensions and

1036
00:41:10,679 --> 00:41:16,639
only 10 Dimensions mathematically so

1037
00:41:14,079 --> 00:41:18,318
that's um an interesting observation

1038
00:41:16,639 --> 00:41:21,039
right so I don't I don't I don't have

1039
00:41:18,318 --> 00:41:24,199
the background to be an authentic drink

1040
00:41:21,039 --> 00:41:27,639
Theory skeptic but I know physicists who

1041
00:41:24,199 --> 00:41:29,318
are and so I don't yeah I think there I

1042
00:41:27,639 --> 00:41:31,480
mean it depends I think it depends what

1043
00:41:29,318 --> 00:41:34,079
you mean by String Theory I mean there

1044
00:41:31,480 --> 00:41:35,960
was that if you go back you know a few

1045
00:41:34,079 --> 00:41:37,960
decades you talk to Brian Green for

1046
00:41:35,960 --> 00:41:39,240
example and when he started working in

1047
00:41:37,960 --> 00:41:40,838
this area he would he's a friend of Star

1048
00:41:39,239 --> 00:41:43,000
Talk he been onest several times he

1049
00:41:40,838 --> 00:41:44,838
would have um it's great but the elegant

1050
00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:46,920
universe is a beautiful description of

1051
00:41:44,838 --> 00:41:48,400
string theory and and so I think the

1052
00:41:46,920 --> 00:41:50,200
idea initially with the Hope was that

1053
00:41:48,400 --> 00:41:52,039
you'd have a theory and you could write

1054
00:41:50,199 --> 00:41:53,679
it down it's a theory of everything and

1055
00:41:52,039 --> 00:41:55,559
it would predict the universe as we see

1056
00:41:53,679 --> 00:41:59,440
it and then you go home and done and I

1057
00:41:55,559 --> 00:42:02,920
think that's gone as a as an idea but

1058
00:41:59,440 --> 00:42:04,599
the the the the basic idea of these I

1059
00:42:02,920 --> 00:42:06,720
mean why is it called string theory is

1060
00:42:04,599 --> 00:42:08,880
because particles are not point likee

1061
00:42:06,719 --> 00:42:12,519
the these strings are like little string

1062
00:42:08,880 --> 00:42:15,318
little loops and and but that idea I

1063
00:42:12,519 --> 00:42:17,838
think is still at the foundation of most

1064
00:42:15,318 --> 00:42:20,639
modern theoretical physics in this area

1065
00:42:17,838 --> 00:42:22,119
but it's got much more complicated and

1066
00:42:20,639 --> 00:42:23,639
it's been much harder I think the

1067
00:42:22,119 --> 00:42:25,760
initial idea that you could just predict

1068
00:42:23,639 --> 00:42:27,799
everything from one number maybe has

1069
00:42:25,760 --> 00:42:30,200
gone away one simple equation on one

1070
00:42:27,800 --> 00:42:33,240
line but there is tremendous progress

1071
00:42:30,199 --> 00:42:35,039
being made in in string theory so it's

1072
00:42:33,239 --> 00:42:36,879
it's it's not gone away it's just become

1073
00:42:35,039 --> 00:42:39,440
more complicated I would say well thanks

1074
00:42:36,880 --> 00:42:41,000
for catching me up on this I at this

1075
00:42:39,440 --> 00:42:43,000
conference you're giving a a talk on

1076
00:42:41,000 --> 00:42:44,719
black holes yeah and there was some

1077
00:42:43,000 --> 00:42:47,400
recent announcement the biggest jet from

1078
00:42:44,719 --> 00:42:52,759
a black hole ever discovered ever yeah

1079
00:42:47,400 --> 00:42:55,358
ever uh I I when I was asked about it by

1080
00:42:52,760 --> 00:42:57,359
the Press I simply said there's always a

1081
00:42:55,358 --> 00:43:02,719
biggest jet in the universe and so now

1082
00:42:57,358 --> 00:43:07,119
this one is that the A380 okay airb A380

1083
00:43:02,719 --> 00:43:10,879
it's a fantastic a did I under sell the

1084
00:43:07,119 --> 00:43:12,519
significance of this huge jet so what if

1085
00:43:10,880 --> 00:43:14,440
it's the biggest one unless there's some

1086
00:43:12,519 --> 00:43:17,480
interesting physics that's coming out of

1087
00:43:14,440 --> 00:43:19,480
it the area that I have I share a PhD

1088
00:43:17,480 --> 00:43:20,880
student who's working in the area is

1089
00:43:19,480 --> 00:43:22,240
more is more theoretical it's about

1090
00:43:20,880 --> 00:43:24,760
Quantum information the way the

1091
00:43:22,239 --> 00:43:26,838
information behaves inside and outside

1092
00:43:24,760 --> 00:43:29,040
of black hole what happens to things

1093
00:43:26,838 --> 00:43:32,759
that fall in but um in terms of the

1094
00:43:29,039 --> 00:43:35,358
astrophysical work that if you go back

1095
00:43:32,760 --> 00:43:38,599
you know not long ago we didn't really

1096
00:43:35,358 --> 00:43:40,719
have any observation of how uh things

1097
00:43:38,599 --> 00:43:42,440
behave in the vicinity of black holes

1098
00:43:40,719 --> 00:43:44,118
and so I would put it in that box we've

1099
00:43:42,440 --> 00:43:45,880
got several observations now we've got

1100
00:43:44,119 --> 00:43:47,920
the radio telescope observations from

1101
00:43:45,880 --> 00:43:49,599
The Event Horizon collaboration that are

1102
00:43:47,920 --> 00:43:51,680
shown us how the magnetic fields work

1103
00:43:49,599 --> 00:43:53,280
for example around the the the black

1104
00:43:51,679 --> 00:43:55,399
hole in the Milky Way we've got these

1105
00:43:53,280 --> 00:43:57,480
Jets which are giving you access to the

1106
00:43:55,400 --> 00:43:58,838
magnetic structure presumably in the way

1107
00:43:57,480 --> 00:44:00,880
that they thank you for putting it in

1108
00:43:58,838 --> 00:44:03,279
that context now I can understand it

1109
00:44:00,880 --> 00:44:04,880
broadens the astrophysical data set yeah

1110
00:44:03,280 --> 00:44:07,480
on which we

1111
00:44:04,880 --> 00:44:08,440
can sharpen our hypotheses for what's

1112
00:44:07,480 --> 00:44:10,240
going on yeah because they're hard

1113
00:44:08,440 --> 00:44:12,039
things to observe and of course you

1114
00:44:10,239 --> 00:44:13,118
can't observe the interior because it's

1115
00:44:12,039 --> 00:44:15,800
inside this thing called The Event

1116
00:44:13,119 --> 00:44:18,039
Horizon but what you can do and we are

1117
00:44:15,800 --> 00:44:21,440
doing is observe the way that material

1118
00:44:18,039 --> 00:44:23,558
behaves in the vicinity of them or what

1119
00:44:21,440 --> 00:44:24,720
the other remarkable thing we've been

1120
00:44:23,559 --> 00:44:27,119
able to do in the last few years is

1121
00:44:24,719 --> 00:44:29,318
watch them Collide and see how the

1122
00:44:27,119 --> 00:44:31,240
ripples in the fabric of the universe

1123
00:44:29,318 --> 00:44:33,800
come out and we can detect those ripples

1124
00:44:31,239 --> 00:44:36,639
so all these things are allowing us to

1125
00:44:33,800 --> 00:44:39,599
probe these objects by and it's worth

1126
00:44:36,639 --> 00:44:40,799
remembering that they were present they

1127
00:44:39,599 --> 00:44:43,680
were

1128
00:44:40,800 --> 00:44:46,519
described um non-spinning ones were

1129
00:44:43,679 --> 00:44:48,639
described fully by the work that Carl

1130
00:44:46,519 --> 00:44:51,639
swell did in in

1131
00:44:48,639 --> 00:44:52,719
1916 so months after Einstein had

1132
00:44:51,639 --> 00:44:55,159
published the theory of general

1133
00:44:52,719 --> 00:44:57,039
relativity he didn't know it at the time

1134
00:44:55,159 --> 00:44:59,838
but his the the mathematical descrip

1135
00:44:57,039 --> 00:45:01,558
description he found which describes how

1136
00:44:59,838 --> 00:45:04,838
space and time are distorted in the

1137
00:45:01,559 --> 00:45:07,480
presence of a star a non-spinning star

1138
00:45:04,838 --> 00:45:09,440
is kind of important um those those

1139
00:45:07,480 --> 00:45:12,000
fully describe a black hole that isn't

1140
00:45:09,440 --> 00:45:13,519
spinning remember correctly uh he would

1141
00:45:12,000 --> 00:45:15,119
die in the first World War I don't think

1142
00:45:13,519 --> 00:45:19,079
he made it out of the war no he died in

1143
00:45:15,119 --> 00:45:21,000
1916 so shortly after not not in action

1144
00:45:19,079 --> 00:45:23,880
he not in action okay I think he died

1145
00:45:21,000 --> 00:45:27,199
from dis diseases that it was on the

1146
00:45:23,880 --> 00:45:29,559
Russian front okay it was yeah so War

1147
00:45:27,199 --> 00:45:31,919
related but not I think it was you would

1148
00:45:29,559 --> 00:45:34,280
argue War related uh yeah so we've got

1149
00:45:31,920 --> 00:45:35,920
you know more than a century of

1150
00:45:34,280 --> 00:45:38,559
mathematical foundation for this yeah

1151
00:45:35,920 --> 00:45:40,720
and then you go forward to with no data

1152
00:45:38,559 --> 00:45:42,400
no data no and then then then so it

1153
00:45:40,719 --> 00:45:43,759
takes another 50 years by the way for

1154
00:45:42,400 --> 00:45:46,200
someone to work out what it looks like

1155
00:45:43,760 --> 00:45:50,079
for a spinning one which is Roy Kerr

1156
00:45:46,199 --> 00:45:52,358
it's a famous ker solution but those two

1157
00:45:50,079 --> 00:45:55,839
solutions there they're in Einstein's

1158
00:45:52,358 --> 00:45:59,318
theory in some in a sense um and they

1159
00:45:55,838 --> 00:46:01,318
describe the black ho but um observing

1160
00:45:59,318 --> 00:46:03,639
them is something that we haven't been

1161
00:46:01,318 --> 00:46:05,599
able to do till recently so so in

1162
00:46:03,639 --> 00:46:07,118
multi-wave lengths as well yeah so so

1163
00:46:05,599 --> 00:46:09,079
now we have radio observations the

1164
00:46:07,119 --> 00:46:11,720
gravitational wave observations I'll

1165
00:46:09,079 --> 00:46:14,039
I'll be a little kinder to that well

1166
00:46:11,719 --> 00:46:16,558
because it's the way the thing is you as

1167
00:46:14,039 --> 00:46:19,400
you said right at the start science is

1168
00:46:16,559 --> 00:46:21,480
about yes having ideas building theories

1169
00:46:19,400 --> 00:46:23,160
and so on but it's it's really

1170
00:46:21,480 --> 00:46:25,559
fundamentally about testing those

1171
00:46:23,159 --> 00:46:27,519
theories yeah and so we can talk about

1172
00:46:25,559 --> 00:46:30,800
these theoretical object Jacks black

1173
00:46:27,519 --> 00:46:32,719
holes but really and they are rich

1174
00:46:30,800 --> 00:46:34,480
theoretically But ultimately you've got

1175
00:46:32,719 --> 00:46:36,399
to make observations and that's where

1176
00:46:34,480 --> 00:46:37,639
these Jets and and seeing how material

1177
00:46:36,400 --> 00:46:39,318
behaves it gives you access to the

1178
00:46:37,639 --> 00:46:41,239
magnetic fields and how the thing's

1179
00:46:39,318 --> 00:46:44,079
spinning and what it's that that's

1180
00:46:41,239 --> 00:46:46,598
important hey Star Talk fans I don't

1181
00:46:44,079 --> 00:46:49,920
know if you know this but the audio

1182
00:46:46,599 --> 00:46:53,240
version of the podcast actually posts a

1183
00:46:49,920 --> 00:46:56,079
week in advance of the video version and

1184
00:46:53,239 --> 00:46:57,598
you can get that in Spotify and apple

1185
00:46:56,079 --> 00:47:00,480
podcast and

1186
00:46:57,599 --> 00:47:04,000
most other podcast Outlets that are out

1187
00:47:00,480 --> 00:47:06,599
there multiple ways to ingest all that

1188
00:47:04,000 --> 00:47:10,000
is Cosmic on Star talk let's talk about

1189
00:47:06,599 --> 00:47:11,400
your work with the public you you said

1190
00:47:10,000 --> 00:47:16,280
earlier

1191
00:47:11,400 --> 00:47:19,680
you you share this commitment that binan

1192
00:47:16,280 --> 00:47:22,319
declared duty to bring science to the

1193
00:47:19,679 --> 00:47:24,598
public you you don't you not only talk

1194
00:47:22,318 --> 00:47:27,119
the talk you walk the walk and you have

1195
00:47:24,599 --> 00:47:29,559
spillage everywhere you know you get

1196
00:47:27,119 --> 00:47:33,480
given tours Public tours in in in

1197
00:47:29,559 --> 00:47:35,280
Australia across Europe uh and if I

1198
00:47:33,480 --> 00:47:37,280
remember correctly you're coming back to

1199
00:47:35,280 --> 00:47:39,040
the United States next spring to give a

1200
00:47:37,280 --> 00:47:41,319
tour across the country yeah yeah it's a

1201
00:47:39,039 --> 00:47:43,079
tour that um that that's been going on

1202
00:47:41,318 --> 00:47:44,558
for quite a long time it wasn't meant to

1203
00:47:43,079 --> 00:47:48,039
really but we've ended

1204
00:47:44,559 --> 00:47:49,760
up playing to over 400,000 people across

1205
00:47:48,039 --> 00:47:51,800
the world with this tour wait wait wait

1206
00:47:49,760 --> 00:47:54,200
you're not a musician you say playing

1207
00:47:51,800 --> 00:47:57,480
get your vocabulary I'm look I'm rock

1208
00:47:54,199 --> 00:47:58,719
and roll basically I always been so when

1209
00:47:57,480 --> 00:48:01,760
when

1210
00:47:58,719 --> 00:48:03,639
we we have five trucks and two tour

1211
00:48:01,760 --> 00:48:05,440
buses it's brilliant so I'm reliving My

1212
00:48:03,639 --> 00:48:06,920
Life as a so did I see a version of that

1213
00:48:05,440 --> 00:48:08,599
when you came to the city yeah it was

1214
00:48:06,920 --> 00:48:10,079
very early on just after it was just

1215
00:48:08,599 --> 00:48:13,960
after yeah you have these screens that

1216
00:48:10,079 --> 00:48:16,039
interlock and then the whole stage is is

1217
00:48:13,960 --> 00:48:18,358
yeah and that was a very early iteration

1218
00:48:16,039 --> 00:48:20,960
of this and so it's changed a lot before

1219
00:48:18,358 --> 00:48:22,838
I laid it to rest this tour and develop

1220
00:48:20,960 --> 00:48:25,400
another one I wanted to bring it back

1221
00:48:22,838 --> 00:48:27,480
here in the form that it is now which is

1222
00:48:25,400 --> 00:48:30,400
so radically different from what and and

1223
00:48:27,480 --> 00:48:33,599
it's you celebrating the universe with

1224
00:48:30,400 --> 00:48:36,280
and for the it is and the public it also

1225
00:48:33,599 --> 00:48:38,599
morphed into there's a version that I do

1226
00:48:36,280 --> 00:48:40,920
with the symphony orchestra which is

1227
00:48:38,599 --> 00:48:43,720
great fun so we did it at Sydney offer

1228
00:48:40,920 --> 00:48:46,440
house actually initially um last year

1229
00:48:43,719 --> 00:48:48,199
and it's a big Orchestra because it's 90

1230
00:48:46,440 --> 00:48:52,599
piece Symphony Orchestra because of the

1231
00:48:48,199 --> 00:48:55,639
music that that I chose and so the The

1232
00:48:52,599 --> 00:48:57,640
Reason by the way as a slight digression

1233
00:48:55,639 --> 00:48:59,118
it's part of this tour the classical

1234
00:48:57,639 --> 00:49:01,358
music is a big part of the tour so it

1235
00:48:59,119 --> 00:49:02,559
starts with calus's Fifth Symphony third

1236
00:49:01,358 --> 00:49:03,880
movement and that was because a

1237
00:49:02,559 --> 00:49:05,559
conductor friend of mine called Daniel

1238
00:49:03,880 --> 00:49:08,200
Harding I said to him what should

1239
00:49:05,559 --> 00:49:10,280
Stanley cubric have used in 2001 as a

1240
00:49:08,199 --> 00:49:12,318
joke like what should he have used we

1241
00:49:10,280 --> 00:49:15,880
immediately said seus Fifth Symphony and

1242
00:49:12,318 --> 00:49:17,279
it is it was written in 19 uh 15 same

1243
00:49:15,880 --> 00:49:19,720
year that general relativity was

1244
00:49:17,280 --> 00:49:21,440
published but it's the basis of almost

1245
00:49:19,719 --> 00:49:25,078
every science fiction theme you've ever

1246
00:49:21,440 --> 00:49:27,400
heard you hear it's beautiful and and uh

1247
00:49:25,079 --> 00:49:28,960
so the idea

1248
00:49:27,400 --> 00:49:30,880
which I've always strongly believed but

1249
00:49:28,960 --> 00:49:33,159
it came to my mind as I was doing this

1250
00:49:30,880 --> 00:49:34,920
tour is that what what if we're talking

1251
00:49:33,159 --> 00:49:37,879
about deeper philosophical questions

1252
00:49:34,920 --> 00:49:40,000
which are raised by cosmology I say

1253
00:49:37,880 --> 00:49:41,760
right at the start what does it mean to

1254
00:49:40,000 --> 00:49:43,880
live a finite fragile life in an

1255
00:49:41,760 --> 00:49:46,040
infinite Eternal Universe right is it

1256
00:49:43,880 --> 00:49:47,000
because it and and I say of course I

1257
00:49:46,039 --> 00:49:49,440
don't know the answer to that do that

1258
00:49:47,000 --> 00:49:51,719
uplift people or depress them well but

1259
00:49:49,440 --> 00:49:53,798
but it's that as you know the moment you

1260
00:49:51,719 --> 00:49:55,118
contemplate the Scale of the Universe

1261
00:49:53,798 --> 00:49:57,000
and I should say we don't know whether

1262
00:49:55,119 --> 00:49:58,798
it's infinite we don't know whether it's

1263
00:49:57,000 --> 00:50:01,280
Eternal right but but it could well be

1264
00:49:58,798 --> 00:50:03,759
infinite and eternal for all purposes it

1265
00:50:01,280 --> 00:50:06,240
kind of is right on a human to a human

1266
00:50:03,760 --> 00:50:08,240
scale yeah so so the immediately when

1267
00:50:06,239 --> 00:50:10,358
you contemplate the size and scale of

1268
00:50:08,239 --> 00:50:13,838
the universe you ask questions about our

1269
00:50:10,358 --> 00:50:15,639
place and quite vividly what does it

1270
00:50:13,838 --> 00:50:19,239
mean to live these little finite fragile

1271
00:50:15,639 --> 00:50:21,318
lives and so I think I try to approach

1272
00:50:19,239 --> 00:50:23,719
those questions and you realize or I

1273
00:50:21,318 --> 00:50:25,838
realize that there are other lights you

1274
00:50:23,719 --> 00:50:28,078
can shine on that problem and science is

1275
00:50:25,838 --> 00:50:30,400
a necessary bright and Vivid light that

1276
00:50:28,079 --> 00:50:32,200
casts a very well delineated Shadow

1277
00:50:30,400 --> 00:50:34,920
which is given us some obviously it's

1278
00:50:32,199 --> 00:50:37,318
the framework within which we operate

1279
00:50:34,920 --> 00:50:39,559
but there are other lights so I you

1280
00:50:37,318 --> 00:50:42,279
realize that Mara for example so we use

1281
00:50:39,559 --> 00:50:44,160
Mara in in the classical concerts Mara

1282
00:50:42,280 --> 00:50:46,680
thought a lot about what it means to

1283
00:50:44,159 --> 00:50:49,159
live a finite fragile life and he gave a

1284
00:50:46,679 --> 00:50:50,798
very eloquent answer many eloquent

1285
00:50:49,159 --> 00:50:52,798
answers in his Symphonies and he was

1286
00:50:50,798 --> 00:50:54,280
once asked by the way uh what what are

1287
00:50:52,798 --> 00:50:56,119
you trying to say what what's this

1288
00:50:54,280 --> 00:50:57,200
answer and he said well if I if I could

1289
00:50:56,119 --> 00:50:59,640
say it I would wouldn't have written the

1290
00:50:57,199 --> 00:51:02,598
music good answer you have this music

1291
00:50:59,639 --> 00:51:04,960
love that so so the music so the

1292
00:51:02,599 --> 00:51:06,838
composers that I chose and that part

1293
00:51:04,960 --> 00:51:10,480
they are in the the tour that we're

1294
00:51:06,838 --> 00:51:14,440
going to do NE this coming year NE next

1295
00:51:10,480 --> 00:51:16,079
April 2025 um they're in there as music

1296
00:51:14,440 --> 00:51:18,440
the the composers were chosen because

1297
00:51:16,079 --> 00:51:21,680
they explored this question and gave

1298
00:51:18,440 --> 00:51:24,200
very eloquent answers the the so so it's

1299
00:51:21,679 --> 00:51:26,000
it adds to I think the more

1300
00:51:24,199 --> 00:51:27,960
philosophical exploration of the

1301
00:51:26,000 --> 00:51:29,639
questions that raised by the signs

1302
00:51:27,960 --> 00:51:32,358
what's the name of the tour called

1303
00:51:29,639 --> 00:51:34,480
Horizons Horizons that's easy enough to

1304
00:51:32,358 --> 00:51:35,719
remember okay very cool but there's a

1305
00:51:34,480 --> 00:51:38,240
lot of black holes in it as well I

1306
00:51:35,719 --> 00:51:40,358
should say so it's an exploration of of

1307
00:51:38,239 --> 00:51:42,279
the ideas that I find black is a horizon

1308
00:51:40,358 --> 00:51:44,239
of its own they have Horizons yes but

1309
00:51:42,280 --> 00:51:46,880
but but also life in the universe the

1310
00:51:44,239 --> 00:51:48,519
origin evolution of Life speculations on

1311
00:51:46,880 --> 00:51:51,599
we could talk about speculations on how

1312
00:51:48,519 --> 00:51:53,239
many civilizations there might be as a

1313
00:51:51,599 --> 00:51:56,200
guest well this thing about life in the

1314
00:51:53,239 --> 00:51:57,879
universe you've done many many uh TV

1315
00:51:56,199 --> 00:52:00,639
series

1316
00:51:57,880 --> 00:52:04,559
and most recently one on the solar

1317
00:52:00,639 --> 00:52:07,000
system yeah where the search for life is

1318
00:52:04,559 --> 00:52:08,599
a main theme well yeah we just saw as we

1319
00:52:07,000 --> 00:52:10,519
speak last week the Europa Clipper

1320
00:52:08,599 --> 00:52:13,280
spacecraft was launched yes on the way

1321
00:52:10,519 --> 00:52:14,679
to Europa we have an entire show devoted

1322
00:52:13,280 --> 00:52:17,160
just to that we visited the jet

1323
00:52:14,679 --> 00:52:19,118
propulsion labs and saw felt the

1324
00:52:17,159 --> 00:52:20,798
excitement of everyone there it's great

1325
00:52:19,119 --> 00:52:23,599
isn't it it's the first spacecraft I've

1326
00:52:20,798 --> 00:52:25,679
seen major spacecraft being built so I

1327
00:52:23,599 --> 00:52:27,119
saw the Clipper and the thing is the

1328
00:52:25,679 --> 00:52:28,719
scale of that thing it's it's the

1329
00:52:27,119 --> 00:52:31,960
largest spacecraft isn't it that's ever

1330
00:52:28,719 --> 00:52:34,639
been sent into well if you add the so

1331
00:52:31,960 --> 00:52:36,519
the most massive here's it may be but

1332
00:52:34,639 --> 00:52:38,719
there's another important fact solar

1333
00:52:36,519 --> 00:52:40,679
panels have gotten more efficient in the

1334
00:52:38,719 --> 00:52:43,439
day back if you were going to explore

1335
00:52:40,679 --> 00:52:45,239
beyond the asteroid belt you couldn't

1336
00:52:43,440 --> 00:52:47,599
use solar panels the intensity of the

1337
00:52:45,239 --> 00:52:50,519
sun wasn't high enough this one has a

1338
00:52:47,599 --> 00:52:52,240
very Deployable large solar panel

1339
00:52:50,519 --> 00:52:55,280
that'll help it along without having to

1340
00:52:52,239 --> 00:52:57,358
rely entirely on the on the nuclear

1341
00:52:55,280 --> 00:53:00,400
Decay PL

1342
00:52:57,358 --> 00:53:04,598
yeah so it's a huge spacecraft and the

1343
00:53:00,400 --> 00:53:06,960
point is that Europa Jupiter's moon is a

1344
00:53:04,599 --> 00:53:10,599
prime candidate for for a habitable

1345
00:53:06,960 --> 00:53:12,480
world in the what we know almost

1346
00:53:10,599 --> 00:53:14,798
certainly I'm always the people who I

1347
00:53:12,480 --> 00:53:17,519
know work on the mission say don't say

1348
00:53:14,798 --> 00:53:19,199
we know we we're almost sure there's a

1349
00:53:17,519 --> 00:53:21,358
saltwater ocean below the surface I

1350
00:53:19,199 --> 00:53:23,118
think it's pretty indisputable now so

1351
00:53:21,358 --> 00:53:25,239
pretty sure it's there yeah but whatever

1352
00:53:23,119 --> 00:53:27,640
is the skepticism what would it be were

1353
00:53:25,239 --> 00:53:29,078
it not a glal ocean yeah it's very

1354
00:53:27,639 --> 00:53:31,199
difficult to because and that's from

1355
00:53:29,079 --> 00:53:33,318
many measurements made amonia I mean

1356
00:53:31,199 --> 00:53:37,199
there's not you know water molecule is

1357
00:53:33,318 --> 00:53:38,558
not rare yeah it looks like salt water

1358
00:53:37,199 --> 00:53:41,919
yeah and and we have a lot of

1359
00:53:38,559 --> 00:53:44,559
comparative planetology with is it the

1360
00:53:41,920 --> 00:53:46,720
Arctic when it freezes over you have

1361
00:53:44,559 --> 00:53:49,400
these chunks of ice that will break and

1362
00:53:46,719 --> 00:53:50,838
refreeze and readjust and and you can

1363
00:53:49,400 --> 00:53:52,880
compare the images and you'd think you

1364
00:53:50,838 --> 00:53:55,719
were looking at the frozen Arctic yeah

1365
00:53:52,880 --> 00:53:57,280
yeah so it it looks and there's more

1366
00:53:55,719 --> 00:53:58,439
water in that ocean

1367
00:53:57,280 --> 00:54:01,440
than all the oceans of the earth

1368
00:53:58,440 --> 00:54:03,679
combined geologically active there are

1369
00:54:01,440 --> 00:54:05,318
questions about how the ice cracks and

1370
00:54:03,679 --> 00:54:07,078
moves on the surface so it's a

1371
00:54:05,318 --> 00:54:08,599
fascinating Mission so that's Europa

1372
00:54:07,079 --> 00:54:11,200
Mars of course which You' probably

1373
00:54:08,599 --> 00:54:13,240
spoken about many times on this podcast

1374
00:54:11,199 --> 00:54:16,239
um Enceladus is another one Saturn's

1375
00:54:13,239 --> 00:54:20,239
moon even even out of Pluto I even the

1376
00:54:16,239 --> 00:54:22,118
ones we see the plumes of of geysers I

1377
00:54:20,239 --> 00:54:24,479
guess yeah yeah when at the right Sun

1378
00:54:22,119 --> 00:54:27,240
angle you can see who who took those

1379
00:54:24,480 --> 00:54:29,358
pictures that must must have been right

1380
00:54:27,239 --> 00:54:31,399
right right yeah so and also there's

1381
00:54:29,358 --> 00:54:34,598
some measurements from Cassini the

1382
00:54:31,400 --> 00:54:37,318
particles in those Jets of water which

1383
00:54:34,599 --> 00:54:39,519
are consistent with hydrothermal vent

1384
00:54:37,318 --> 00:54:42,519
activity on the floors and hydrothermal

1385
00:54:39,519 --> 00:54:43,880
vents are one of the plausible

1386
00:54:42,519 --> 00:54:46,239
candidates for the origin of life on

1387
00:54:43,880 --> 00:54:49,280
Earth yes so you seem to have everything

1388
00:54:46,239 --> 00:54:51,879
the one thing I think europa's got that

1389
00:54:49,280 --> 00:54:53,480
arguably nowhere else has is it looks

1390
00:54:51,880 --> 00:54:55,720
like that ocean has been there for many

1391
00:54:53,480 --> 00:54:58,400
billions of years that's the the

1392
00:54:55,719 --> 00:55:00,439
Baseline scenario and we evolve life in

1393
00:54:58,400 --> 00:55:03,720
less time than that here on Earth yeah

1394
00:55:00,440 --> 00:55:06,159
yeah present what 3.8 billion years ago

1395
00:55:03,719 --> 00:55:08,000
3.8 yeah yeah and the the other four and

1396
00:55:06,159 --> 00:55:09,440
a half billion years old so right yes so

1397
00:55:08,000 --> 00:55:11,719
so it looks like you have a habitat

1398
00:55:09,440 --> 00:55:13,838
that's been stable there and I think you

1399
00:55:11,719 --> 00:55:15,318
can't CL that with in fact you know it

1400
00:55:13,838 --> 00:55:17,960
was taught that it took about a half a

1401
00:55:15,318 --> 00:55:20,159
billion years on Earth to get life going

1402
00:55:17,960 --> 00:55:23,119
but we were able to revise that number

1403
00:55:20,159 --> 00:55:25,440
down because in the early Earth these

1404
00:55:23,119 --> 00:55:27,559
periods of heavy bombardment it's not

1405
00:55:25,440 --> 00:55:29,480
fair to start the clock while we're

1406
00:55:27,559 --> 00:55:31,880
still getting slammed by you know still

1407
00:55:29,480 --> 00:55:33,760
accreting leftover rocks from the solar

1408
00:55:31,880 --> 00:55:35,920
system as the temperature of the surface

1409
00:55:33,760 --> 00:55:38,039
of the Earth is high enough to prevent

1410
00:55:35,920 --> 00:55:41,000
complex molecules give us a chance

1411
00:55:38,039 --> 00:55:44,039
please so the the periods of bombardment

1412
00:55:41,000 --> 00:55:46,079
subside Earth surface cools now start

1413
00:55:44,039 --> 00:55:48,640
the clock and then it's about 100 100

1414
00:55:46,079 --> 00:55:51,280
million years yeah yeah so that's like

1415
00:55:48,639 --> 00:55:53,480
that yeah which is one of the reasons I

1416
00:55:51,280 --> 00:55:55,880
think that I think if you speak to many

1417
00:55:53,480 --> 00:55:58,639
biologists they would say that might

1418
00:55:55,880 --> 00:56:00,838
suggest that given the right conditions

1419
00:55:58,639 --> 00:56:02,639
then whatever the origin of life is

1420
00:56:00,838 --> 00:56:04,440
there's a reasonable probability given

1421
00:56:02,639 --> 00:56:06,558
the right conditions because it happened

1422
00:56:04,440 --> 00:56:08,480
quickly here right so but that now

1423
00:56:06,559 --> 00:56:11,319
that's not that's not definitive in any

1424
00:56:08,480 --> 00:56:13,039
sense but certainly tempting to go there

1425
00:56:11,318 --> 00:56:15,759
but then but what I find very

1426
00:56:13,039 --> 00:56:17,599
interesting then is though when you ask

1427
00:56:15,760 --> 00:56:20,559
okay but when did life get more complex

1428
00:56:17,599 --> 00:56:21,760
than a single cell you're you're then I

1429
00:56:20,559 --> 00:56:23,798
don't think there's any evidence in the

1430
00:56:21,760 --> 00:56:25,640
fossil record back Beyond about 600

1431
00:56:23,798 --> 00:56:28,038
million years ago that took a while yeah

1432
00:56:25,639 --> 00:56:31,199
we we as single cell creatures three

1433
00:56:28,039 --> 00:56:33,240
billion years yeah plus but it seems so

1434
00:56:31,199 --> 00:56:35,598
I think people who think about this

1435
00:56:33,239 --> 00:56:37,679
problem are honest about that and so in

1436
00:56:35,599 --> 00:56:39,680
the search for life on other planets

1437
00:56:37,679 --> 00:56:42,159
we're really looking for single cell

1438
00:56:39,679 --> 00:56:44,199
organism well it would be it would be

1439
00:56:42,159 --> 00:56:45,639
remarkable to see anything more complex

1440
00:56:44,199 --> 00:56:48,078
well it' be remarkable to see a single

1441
00:56:45,639 --> 00:56:50,798
cell because then you

1442
00:56:48,079 --> 00:56:52,119
know especially if it were biologically

1443
00:56:50,798 --> 00:56:53,719
different so you can really show that

1444
00:56:52,119 --> 00:56:55,358
it's got a different origin because it's

1445
00:56:53,719 --> 00:56:57,439
worth saying that on Mars the material

1446
00:56:55,358 --> 00:56:59,480
is exchanged between Earth and Mars so

1447
00:56:57,440 --> 00:57:01,318
it's not obvious yeah that you could and

1448
00:56:59,480 --> 00:57:03,000
you make all these points in your Series

1449
00:57:01,318 --> 00:57:04,599
right so where where where can people

1450
00:57:03,000 --> 00:57:06,199
find your series it's streaming I

1451
00:57:04,599 --> 00:57:07,920
presume yeah yeah we've got the new one

1452
00:57:06,199 --> 00:57:10,000
is just on the moment actually that's

1453
00:57:07,920 --> 00:57:12,200
what I'm saying the solar system so that

1454
00:57:10,000 --> 00:57:14,760
will appear on Apple I suppose at some

1455
00:57:12,199 --> 00:57:17,558
point and other places yeah I mean it's

1456
00:57:14,760 --> 00:57:18,799
the moment it's on the BBC so um and

1457
00:57:17,559 --> 00:57:20,400
it's streaming on the BBC and then it

1458
00:57:18,798 --> 00:57:22,798
will head off around the world one of

1459
00:57:20,400 --> 00:57:25,639
the coolest things I think about Europa

1460
00:57:22,798 --> 00:57:29,759
is that the the habitat that the

1461
00:57:25,639 --> 00:57:31,960
potential habitat requires Jupiter

1462
00:57:29,760 --> 00:57:35,000
because the the heating it's liquid

1463
00:57:31,960 --> 00:57:37,000
because of theing around a big but it

1464
00:57:35,000 --> 00:57:39,280
also seems to require well it requires

1465
00:57:37,000 --> 00:57:40,880
the other moons iio and ganim to keep it

1466
00:57:39,280 --> 00:57:42,160
in this orbital resonance which keeps

1467
00:57:40,880 --> 00:57:44,480
feeding the energy in from the

1468
00:57:42,159 --> 00:57:46,960
gravitational field the Family Affair

1469
00:57:44,480 --> 00:57:50,280
but it also might need the the the

1470
00:57:46,960 --> 00:57:53,280
material from the volcanoes of IO on the

1471
00:57:50,280 --> 00:57:55,240
surface of Europa because they might

1472
00:57:53,280 --> 00:57:58,559
provide the what what we call the

1473
00:57:55,239 --> 00:58:02,038
oxidant right so that so so life is so

1474
00:57:58,559 --> 00:58:05,440
you're saying that the an IO which is

1475
00:58:02,039 --> 00:58:09,319
badly stressed it's just one big volcano

1476
00:58:05,440 --> 00:58:12,159
there one big volcano so th it spews

1477
00:58:09,318 --> 00:58:13,880
volcanic substance yeah faster than

1478
00:58:12,159 --> 00:58:16,358
escape velocity apparently and then it

1479
00:58:13,880 --> 00:58:19,720
goes which lands on on EUR and it it

1480
00:58:16,358 --> 00:58:22,480
goes into Pathways that intersect other

1481
00:58:19,719 --> 00:58:24,279
moons Europa included you do this for a

1482
00:58:22,480 --> 00:58:26,599
billion years and then the

1483
00:58:24,280 --> 00:58:29,160
chemistry and then it gets iradi helps

1484
00:58:26,599 --> 00:58:31,160
out the chemistry yeah so we we one of

1485
00:58:29,159 --> 00:58:33,679
the theories that that I've spoken to

1486
00:58:31,159 --> 00:58:36,000
people on the clip emission said is that

1487
00:58:33,679 --> 00:58:38,279
that's part of the battery of life that

1488
00:58:36,000 --> 00:58:40,719
chemistry so life I can't remember who

1489
00:58:38,280 --> 00:58:42,519
said it but he said life it was someone

1490
00:58:40,719 --> 00:58:45,199
said it's life it's an electron looking

1491
00:58:42,519 --> 00:58:47,038
for a place to land that's what life is

1492
00:58:45,199 --> 00:58:49,239
it's just in one way you can see life is

1493
00:58:47,039 --> 00:58:51,640
electrons moving around but that means

1494
00:58:49,239 --> 00:58:53,519
you need the chemistry but to is that

1495
00:58:51,639 --> 00:58:56,239
all we are just electrons looking for a

1496
00:58:53,519 --> 00:58:58,920
place to land well that's that's whatt

1497
00:58:56,239 --> 00:59:01,159
I'd rather be Dust in the Wind whatever

1498
00:58:58,920 --> 00:59:02,960
all we are so so but I find that

1499
00:59:01,159 --> 00:59:05,759
wonderful because then you've got this

1500
00:59:02,960 --> 00:59:07,400
habitat which is a system and as you

1501
00:59:05,760 --> 00:59:08,960
said comparative planetology you

1502
00:59:07,400 --> 00:59:11,400
mentioned earlier it's also true of

1503
00:59:08,960 --> 00:59:14,358
Earth isn't it you you can't understand

1504
00:59:11,400 --> 00:59:16,440
Earth without understanding the system

1505
00:59:14,358 --> 00:59:19,038
the solar system you need to understand

1506
00:59:16,440 --> 00:59:20,400
the moon and how it stabilizes the spin

1507
00:59:19,039 --> 00:59:21,760
axis and you need to understand of

1508
00:59:20,400 --> 00:59:23,599
course the sun and the way it interacts

1509
00:59:21,760 --> 00:59:25,079
with Earth and so on I'm a few years

1510
00:59:23,599 --> 00:59:27,838
your senior I don't know if you would

1511
00:59:25,079 --> 00:59:29,480
remember this but I defitely do the era

1512
00:59:27,838 --> 00:59:32,078
where no one was thinking or caring

1513
00:59:29,480 --> 00:59:33,400
about moons yeah in the solar system you

1514
00:59:32,079 --> 00:59:36,318
know we had a we have a dead Moon

1515
00:59:33,400 --> 00:59:38,639
orbiting us oddly large but fine let's

1516
00:59:36,318 --> 00:59:41,159
go look at the planets yeah and so every

1517
00:59:38,639 --> 00:59:43,078
Mission out to the planets we the they

1518
00:59:41,159 --> 00:59:46,519
looked over their shoulder and found

1519
00:59:43,079 --> 00:59:48,480
moons which had way more geologic

1520
00:59:46,519 --> 00:59:49,719
diversity than anything we're finding on

1521
00:59:48,480 --> 00:59:51,480
the planet you know I found it

1522
00:59:49,719 --> 00:59:54,199
interesting because did you I mean when

1523
00:59:51,480 --> 00:59:57,079
you were in school did where were we pre

1524
00:59:54,199 --> 00:59:59,358
Voyage well Voyage it so I'm pre Voyager

1525
00:59:57,079 --> 01:00:01,400
and Voyager turned the moons into Worlds

1526
00:59:59,358 --> 01:00:03,119
yeah that's what happened yeah yeah so

1527
01:00:01,400 --> 01:00:05,639
the idea you have a habitable zone in a

1528
01:00:03,119 --> 01:00:07,358
solar system which is the The Zone

1529
01:00:05,639 --> 01:00:09,279
within which if you have a rocky planet

1530
01:00:07,358 --> 01:00:10,960
orbiting and everything's right then and

1531
01:00:09,280 --> 01:00:12,519
the atmosphere is right you could have

1532
01:00:10,960 --> 01:00:16,400
the conditions to support life on the

1533
01:00:12,519 --> 01:00:19,159
surface liquid water let's say and so

1534
01:00:16,400 --> 01:00:21,240
and so that turn out to be needlessly

1535
01:00:19,159 --> 01:00:24,279
limiting well exactly so so so you just

1536
01:00:21,239 --> 01:00:26,798
say well Mars Earth Venus in our solar

1537
01:00:24,280 --> 01:00:29,280
system that's it but then you find reh

1538
01:00:26,798 --> 01:00:30,880
habitable zones around gas giants that

1539
01:00:29,280 --> 01:00:33,240
and that as you said that was the great

1540
01:00:30,880 --> 01:00:35,519
discovery of VO Voyager I would say yeah

1541
01:00:33,239 --> 01:00:38,519
began with voyager really for sure yeah

1542
01:00:35,519 --> 01:00:39,920
should be 19 early 1980s right so I'm

1543
01:00:38,519 --> 01:00:42,358
I'm delighted even as a particle

1544
01:00:39,920 --> 01:00:44,119
physicist you get to also platform the

1545
01:00:42,358 --> 01:00:46,159
solar system because you you have the

1546
01:00:44,119 --> 01:00:48,318
name recognition was always but that's

1547
01:00:46,159 --> 01:00:50,118
why I said I started with astrophysics I

1548
01:00:48,318 --> 01:00:51,558
really just wanted to be an astronomer

1549
01:00:50,119 --> 01:00:54,880
so I've always been I've I've got a

1550
01:00:51,559 --> 01:00:56,839
telescope you confess to me I a safe

1551
01:00:54,880 --> 01:00:58,960
space to do that ended up in particle

1552
01:00:56,838 --> 01:01:00,599
physics it was almost so I was doing

1553
01:00:58,960 --> 01:01:02,079
astrophysics that's what I was doing and

1554
01:01:00,599 --> 01:01:03,519
I thought I want to be an astronomer we

1555
01:01:02,079 --> 01:01:05,318
University of Manchester has the jodell

1556
01:01:03,519 --> 01:01:06,880
bank radio telescope for example which

1557
01:01:05,318 --> 01:01:09,358
one of the big radio telescopes in the

1558
01:01:06,880 --> 01:01:11,640
world still and so I that wasn't the one

1559
01:01:09,358 --> 01:01:15,480
that discovered the first Pulsar was it

1560
01:01:11,639 --> 01:01:17,960
uh no that Cambridge CD CD J discovered

1561
01:01:15,480 --> 01:01:19,240
something else I mean just George bank

1562
01:01:17,960 --> 01:01:21,039
it's it was one of the first so it's

1563
01:01:19,239 --> 01:01:22,479
Pine it's one of the pioneering it's it

1564
01:01:21,039 --> 01:01:25,720
does a lot of the work work on the camp

1565
01:01:22,480 --> 01:01:27,318
pulsar and so on but uh it was uh so so

1566
01:01:25,719 --> 01:01:29,038
I thought I'd be an astronomer and I

1567
01:01:27,318 --> 01:01:31,400
have a telescope you that's what I do I

1568
01:01:29,039 --> 01:01:34,720
I sit there and in we accept you in the

1569
01:01:31,400 --> 01:01:36,798
club even though you you you drifted to

1570
01:01:34,719 --> 01:01:38,199
particle physics space expiration so

1571
01:01:36,798 --> 01:01:41,559
that's what all what but it was at

1572
01:01:38,199 --> 01:01:43,159
University I just got interested in

1573
01:01:41,559 --> 01:01:46,079
mathematics I didn't think I was very

1574
01:01:43,159 --> 01:01:48,239
good at mathematics at school and uh but

1575
01:01:46,079 --> 01:01:51,119
I found out if with a bit of practice

1576
01:01:48,239 --> 01:01:52,558
then I I enjoyed it so I ended up really

1577
01:01:51,119 --> 01:01:55,318
getting more into theoretical physics

1578
01:01:52,559 --> 01:01:57,480
and and went that way so that's why I

1579
01:01:55,318 --> 01:02:00,558
ended up in partical physics really but

1580
01:01:57,480 --> 01:02:02,798
then now of course I I've every every

1581
01:02:00,559 --> 01:02:05,079
opportunity I get I seem to drift back

1582
01:02:02,798 --> 01:02:06,599
because the universe is cool you know I

1583
01:02:05,079 --> 01:02:09,559
don't want to brag about the universe

1584
01:02:06,599 --> 01:02:12,400
but and black holes actually are where

1585
01:02:09,559 --> 01:02:13,960
they intersect they absolutely particle

1586
01:02:12,400 --> 01:02:16,440
physics and general

1587
01:02:13,960 --> 01:02:18,838
relativity astronomy and the Big Bang

1588
01:02:16,440 --> 01:02:20,798
itself course yeah yeah yeah yeah with

1589
01:02:18,838 --> 01:02:22,920
your particle physics hat where are we

1590
01:02:20,798 --> 01:02:24,358
with neutrinos now I thought with

1591
01:02:22,920 --> 01:02:27,318
they're sort of fully understood we

1592
01:02:24,358 --> 01:02:30,159
solved the nutrino problem in the Sun

1593
01:02:27,318 --> 01:02:32,880
that a Nobel Prize was given for that uh

1594
01:02:30,159 --> 01:02:35,278
is there anything left to discover about

1595
01:02:32,880 --> 01:02:38,160
this elusive particle that belongs in

1596
01:02:35,278 --> 01:02:40,079
the in the I say Tree of Life in the the

1597
01:02:38,159 --> 01:02:43,558
particle Tree of Life yeah I mean there

1598
01:02:40,079 --> 01:02:45,278
are neutrinos are fascinating things

1599
01:02:43,559 --> 01:02:48,000
that they're very very very they're

1600
01:02:45,278 --> 01:02:50,039
almost massless but not quite and that

1601
01:02:48,000 --> 01:02:51,838
matters that should ring bells you know

1602
01:02:50,039 --> 01:02:53,278
it's like why that's the thing about

1603
01:02:51,838 --> 01:02:56,000
science isn't it you go why is this

1604
01:02:53,278 --> 01:02:57,639
unusually light or maybe it isn't maybe

1605
01:02:56,000 --> 01:02:59,440
the other things are unusually heavy but

1606
01:02:57,639 --> 01:03:00,400
but but but it's telling us something

1607
01:02:59,440 --> 01:03:02,639
and it's only

1608
01:03:00,400 --> 01:03:05,400
neutrinos that how hard it is to

1609
01:03:02,639 --> 01:03:08,358
interact with them they gives me any

1610
01:03:05,400 --> 01:03:10,000
belief at all in some other set of

1611
01:03:08,358 --> 01:03:12,159
particles that might exist that we don't

1612
01:03:10,000 --> 01:03:14,798
interact with because neutrinos are our

1613
01:03:12,159 --> 01:03:16,960
own species well they interact through a

1614
01:03:14,798 --> 01:03:19,318
the weak Force they interact but that's

1615
01:03:16,960 --> 01:03:22,240
us that's our little world here right

1616
01:03:19,318 --> 01:03:24,278
any other symmetric particles there

1617
01:03:22,239 --> 01:03:28,598
other forces that mediate them is that

1618
01:03:24,278 --> 01:03:30,760
correct there would be so if you have um

1619
01:03:28,599 --> 01:03:32,559
sort of extensions to the standard model

1620
01:03:30,760 --> 01:03:34,160
of particle physics then you you can

1621
01:03:32,559 --> 01:03:37,039
have forces that change things into

1622
01:03:34,159 --> 01:03:40,118
other things and and so different forces

1623
01:03:37,039 --> 01:03:42,839
but as far as we know as far the zoo

1624
01:03:40,119 --> 01:03:45,278
that we have discovered is is described

1625
01:03:42,838 --> 01:03:46,880
by the three forces um the strong

1626
01:03:45,278 --> 01:03:48,838
nuclear force the weak nuclear force

1627
01:03:46,880 --> 01:03:51,640
electromagnetism and then hanging out

1628
01:03:48,838 --> 01:03:54,038
there as we've discussed is gravity in

1629
01:03:51,639 --> 01:03:56,798
in really a different framework at the

1630
01:03:54,039 --> 01:03:59,640
moment so I Coral Steve ber in elevator

1631
01:03:56,798 --> 01:04:02,719
one day and

1632
01:03:59,639 --> 01:04:04,679
uh and you know physicist I'm telling

1633
01:04:02,719 --> 01:04:07,358
you I'm telling the audience particle

1634
01:04:04,679 --> 01:04:09,480
physicist one of the greats yeah and he

1635
01:04:07,358 --> 01:04:12,960
went to my high school let me allow me

1636
01:04:09,480 --> 01:04:15,838
to add one of wi Nobel laurates from my

1637
01:04:12,960 --> 01:04:19,400
high school and I

1638
01:04:15,838 --> 01:04:22,960
said how can you live with yourself at

1639
01:04:19,400 --> 01:04:25,599
night given how many particles there are

1640
01:04:22,960 --> 01:04:26,960
come on there's like I lost count what

1641
01:04:25,599 --> 01:04:30,278
what what does what does this mean about

1642
01:04:26,960 --> 01:04:32,480
our universe and he said it's not how

1643
01:04:30,278 --> 01:04:36,199
many particles there

1644
01:04:32,480 --> 01:04:38,318
are it's how many laws we have that

1645
01:04:36,199 --> 01:04:41,519
describe them all yeah and it's only

1646
01:04:38,318 --> 01:04:44,960
just a few yeah I thought damn good

1647
01:04:41,519 --> 01:04:47,960
answer yeah he's I remember Steven Weber

1648
01:04:44,960 --> 01:04:50,278
good answer I I think I'm right in

1649
01:04:47,960 --> 01:04:53,278
quoting him as saying that he almost

1650
01:04:50,278 --> 01:04:55,960
wish black holes didn't exist because

1651
01:04:53,278 --> 01:04:57,880
they're so perplexing that it would be

1652
01:04:55,960 --> 01:05:00,000
just easier and he was kind of joking of

1653
01:04:57,880 --> 01:05:02,200
course because physicists love a mystery

1654
01:05:00,000 --> 01:05:04,838
but he was almost like this is too

1655
01:05:02,199 --> 01:05:07,879
difficult there too bizarre maybe nature

1656
01:05:04,838 --> 01:05:10,880
doesn't make them oh I got so see see

1657
01:05:07,880 --> 01:05:12,559
he's he's invoking human limitations on

1658
01:05:10,880 --> 01:05:13,960
the capacity of kind of joke and he was

1659
01:05:12,559 --> 01:05:16,160
just saying these things are so baffling

1660
01:05:13,960 --> 01:05:17,880
and so weird in some ways I'd rather

1661
01:05:16,159 --> 01:05:20,000
they weren't there you know did he say

1662
01:05:17,880 --> 01:05:22,079
that in his old age so that he was

1663
01:05:20,000 --> 01:05:24,199
getting tired of solving the universe he

1664
01:05:22,079 --> 01:05:26,160
was joking so we're still trying to

1665
01:05:24,199 --> 01:05:29,278
explore neutrinos and as I understand

1666
01:05:26,159 --> 01:05:31,719
there's a new nutrino experiment that

1667
01:05:29,278 --> 01:05:35,719
just there came online I mean there are

1668
01:05:31,719 --> 01:05:39,000
several I mean I so the I mean what the

1669
01:05:35,719 --> 01:05:40,959
fundamental question they they do seem

1670
01:05:39,000 --> 01:05:42,159
that the reason we're interested in them

1671
01:05:40,960 --> 01:05:44,838
just we're interested in them because

1672
01:05:42,159 --> 01:05:49,159
they're three of the 12 fundamental

1673
01:05:44,838 --> 01:05:52,960
particles right so so we are made of

1674
01:05:49,159 --> 01:05:55,639
basically three particles that's us and

1675
01:05:52,960 --> 01:05:56,838
electrons protons neutrons uh well no so

1676
01:05:55,639 --> 01:06:00,000
so the protons and neutrons are made of

1677
01:05:56,838 --> 01:06:02,798
quarks oh so okay quarks down let let's

1678
01:06:00,000 --> 01:06:04,278
start from the we're made of atoms you

1679
01:06:02,798 --> 01:06:08,119
can start with we're made of atoms and

1680
01:06:04,278 --> 01:06:10,119
we ATS in Greek means indivisible yeah

1681
01:06:08,119 --> 01:06:12,318
that's what that word means yeah and and

1682
01:06:10,119 --> 01:06:15,039
I it is remarkable by the way you say

1683
01:06:12,318 --> 01:06:17,558
the the Greeks 2,000 years ago uh we

1684
01:06:15,039 --> 01:06:19,920
only discovered that the structure of

1685
01:06:17,559 --> 01:06:22,119
atoms in the 20th century or there ads

1686
01:06:19,920 --> 01:06:24,039
existed well yeah it was up for debates

1687
01:06:22,119 --> 01:06:25,838
the turn of the 20th century it was one

1688
01:06:24,039 --> 01:06:28,480
of the debates in science is there such

1689
01:06:25,838 --> 01:06:30,639
a thing as an atom yeah it's incredible

1690
01:06:28,480 --> 01:06:32,960
incredible yeah yeah yeah and Einstein

1691
01:06:30,639 --> 01:06:35,118
indeed in 1905 one of his famous papers

1692
01:06:32,960 --> 01:06:37,000
was on brownie in motion which one of

1693
01:06:35,119 --> 01:06:38,920
the three famous papers in that year one

1694
01:06:37,000 --> 01:06:40,039
of the other one was special relativity

1695
01:06:38,920 --> 01:06:42,039
and the other one when he got the Nobel

1696
01:06:40,039 --> 01:06:44,359
Prize for was the photo electric effects

1697
01:06:42,039 --> 01:06:45,960
the third one Einstein we should just

1698
01:06:44,358 --> 01:06:48,400
retroactively give him like a dozen

1699
01:06:45,960 --> 01:06:50,559
Nobel prizes it's astonishing he didn't

1700
01:06:48,400 --> 01:06:52,240
get the Nobel Prize for relativity you

1701
01:06:50,559 --> 01:06:54,400
got it for basically the foundation to

1702
01:06:52,239 --> 01:06:57,598
Quantum Mechanics yeah we we discovered

1703
01:06:54,400 --> 01:06:59,358
that matters made of atoms and then we

1704
01:06:57,599 --> 01:07:02,240
very quickly discover after that that

1705
01:06:59,358 --> 01:07:04,119
the atom is a electrons initially we

1706
01:07:02,239 --> 01:07:07,038
have this almost solar system like model

1707
01:07:04,119 --> 01:07:09,039
that it's a a nucleus a dense nucleus

1708
01:07:07,039 --> 01:07:10,839
with an electron going around it and

1709
01:07:09,039 --> 01:07:13,480
then we discover the nucleus is made of

1710
01:07:10,838 --> 01:07:16,239
protons and neutrons that's 1930s by the

1711
01:07:13,480 --> 01:07:18,240
way by orbit model is still the the

1712
01:07:16,239 --> 01:07:21,318
symbol for an atom yeah you know yeah

1713
01:07:18,239 --> 01:07:22,959
the atomic because it's classic you know

1714
01:07:21,318 --> 01:07:24,880
but that's Adams look nothing like that

1715
01:07:22,960 --> 01:07:26,960
no no no and so then quantum mechanics

1716
01:07:24,880 --> 01:07:28,720
comes in tells you you can't have that

1717
01:07:26,960 --> 01:07:29,960
because charged particles moving around

1718
01:07:28,719 --> 01:07:31,679
in the vicinity of other charged

1719
01:07:29,960 --> 01:07:33,838
particles radiate energy away and they

1720
01:07:31,679 --> 01:07:36,278
wouldn't be stable and that was known of

1721
01:07:33,838 --> 01:07:38,199
course um and so then you find that the

1722
01:07:36,278 --> 01:07:40,318
nucleus is made of prot and neutrons and

1723
01:07:38,199 --> 01:07:42,919
as I said the neutron it's a 1930s

1724
01:07:40,318 --> 01:07:45,119
Discovery so we're not that long ago I'm

1725
01:07:42,920 --> 01:07:46,000
amazed when so much you know we're now

1726
01:07:45,119 --> 01:07:48,599
in the

1727
01:07:46,000 --> 01:07:50,199
Centennial decade of the discovery of

1728
01:07:48,599 --> 01:07:54,480
quantum physics back in the

1729
01:07:50,199 --> 01:07:56,000
1920s and the whole 1920s was done

1730
01:07:54,480 --> 01:07:58,760
before we discovered the new

1731
01:07:56,000 --> 01:08:00,599
that's crazy yeah it's it's it's almost

1732
01:07:58,760 --> 01:08:03,480
living it is living memory for some

1733
01:08:00,599 --> 01:08:05,119
people just about this okay so let's get

1734
01:08:03,480 --> 01:08:06,278
back to the fundamental particles then

1735
01:08:05,119 --> 01:08:08,240
then we discovered that the protons and

1736
01:08:06,278 --> 01:08:11,480
neutrons are made of quarks quarks so

1737
01:08:08,239 --> 01:08:13,278
they are as far as we can tell Point

1738
01:08:11,480 --> 01:08:15,838
like objects so they're fundamental they

1739
01:08:13,278 --> 01:08:18,679
won't be but as far as we can tell they

1740
01:08:15,838 --> 01:08:21,158
are experimentally so we have the photon

1741
01:08:18,679 --> 01:08:23,039
the electron well let's the matter

1742
01:08:21,158 --> 01:08:25,559
particles so we have so the up and down

1743
01:08:23,039 --> 01:08:27,640
quarks make up protons and neutrons so

1744
01:08:25,560 --> 01:08:30,000
proton is is two ups and a down and a

1745
01:08:27,640 --> 01:08:33,480
neutron is two downs and an up got it

1746
01:08:30,000 --> 01:08:36,520
and we have two quarks per energy

1747
01:08:33,479 --> 01:08:38,318
stratum here correct well so then so

1748
01:08:36,520 --> 01:08:39,839
then we discovered so we had this we

1749
01:08:38,319 --> 01:08:41,839
have this nice thing so we have the

1750
01:08:39,838 --> 01:08:43,559
electron as you said the up and down

1751
01:08:41,838 --> 01:08:44,559
quark and then the thing called the

1752
01:08:43,560 --> 01:08:46,920
electron

1753
01:08:44,560 --> 01:08:48,759
neutrino which we so we just talked

1754
01:08:46,920 --> 01:08:50,359
about NEOS so only four fundamental

1755
01:08:48,759 --> 01:08:52,520
particles in anything we know or care

1756
01:08:50,359 --> 01:08:54,279
about so we have four of them yep that's

1757
01:08:52,520 --> 01:08:56,880
it and then we have so I can construct

1758
01:08:54,279 --> 01:08:57,719
you out of these particles if I had the

1759
01:08:56,880 --> 01:09:00,880
the

1760
01:08:57,719 --> 01:09:02,560
recip but then so we have four of them

1761
01:09:00,880 --> 01:09:04,400
so so that's there's four of them and

1762
01:09:02,560 --> 01:09:07,199
then the for is that that mediate the

1763
01:09:04,399 --> 01:09:09,079
interactions right okay and which we can

1764
01:09:07,198 --> 01:09:11,599
also think of as being carried by

1765
01:09:09,079 --> 01:09:13,519
particles as we said we have the photon

1766
01:09:11,600 --> 01:09:15,719
partic the electromagnetic force we have

1767
01:09:13,520 --> 01:09:18,759
the w and z bosons which do the weak

1768
01:09:15,719 --> 01:09:19,880
nuclear force and the gluons which the

1769
01:09:18,759 --> 01:09:23,960
strong nuclear force and stick the

1770
01:09:19,880 --> 01:09:26,880
quarks name gluons GL okay and and so

1771
01:09:23,960 --> 01:09:31,239
that's it it seems except that there are

1772
01:09:26,880 --> 01:09:34,279
two copies of those that are identical

1773
01:09:31,238 --> 01:09:36,278
except they're more massive so the so

1774
01:09:34,279 --> 01:09:39,719
there's there's the Str the charm and

1775
01:09:36,279 --> 01:09:41,560
strange quarks and the muon and the M

1776
01:09:39,719 --> 01:09:42,960
neutrino that's another family that's

1777
01:09:41,560 --> 01:09:45,359
nothing that's the next level up in

1778
01:09:42,960 --> 01:09:46,920
energy they're more massive more massive

1779
01:09:45,359 --> 01:09:50,319
okay okay so you have the charm and

1780
01:09:46,920 --> 01:09:52,158
strange and the muan and the Muno and

1781
01:09:50,319 --> 01:09:54,560
then you have another one yeah which are

1782
01:09:52,158 --> 01:09:56,039
the bottom and top or sometimes called

1783
01:09:54,560 --> 01:09:58,080
Beauty and Truth depending on how you

1784
01:09:56,039 --> 01:10:01,439
want to do it the quarks and then the

1785
01:09:58,079 --> 01:10:03,119
TOA and the to neutrino and that's it as

1786
01:10:01,439 --> 01:10:06,399
far as we can tell so that those are the

1787
01:10:03,119 --> 01:10:08,198
M 4812 fundamental particles and their

1788
01:10:06,399 --> 01:10:10,920
antimatter counterparts yeah and then

1789
01:10:08,198 --> 01:10:15,079
the antimatter counterparts and so that

1790
01:10:10,920 --> 01:10:18,560
that why we don't know so why there are

1791
01:10:15,079 --> 01:10:21,000
three and with with experimentally

1792
01:10:18,560 --> 01:10:23,960
proven really with some very small

1793
01:10:21,000 --> 01:10:26,238
caveats only three generations only

1794
01:10:23,960 --> 01:10:27,480
three families of these things

1795
01:10:26,238 --> 01:10:29,678
is there reason for there to be only

1796
01:10:27,479 --> 01:10:31,359
three could there be five 10 so we don't

1797
01:10:29,679 --> 01:10:33,960
know it must be something to do with the

1798
01:10:31,359 --> 01:10:36,079
underlying it looks like a periodic

1799
01:10:33,960 --> 01:10:38,640
table so remember you go back to men

1800
01:10:36,079 --> 01:10:40,359
mendal and the periodic table what what

1801
01:10:38,640 --> 01:10:42,520
how do you understand that pattern in

1802
01:10:40,359 --> 01:10:44,839
the in the chemical properties of the of

1803
01:10:42,520 --> 01:10:46,280
the elements you understand it when you

1804
01:10:44,840 --> 01:10:48,360
know that everything's made of atoms

1805
01:10:46,279 --> 01:10:50,559
yeah I mean the chemist arranged it but

1806
01:10:48,359 --> 01:10:52,158
didn't have any understanding of it no

1807
01:10:50,560 --> 01:10:53,440
quantum physics well well you need to

1808
01:10:52,158 --> 01:10:55,399
know the structure you need to know that

1809
01:10:53,439 --> 01:10:57,198
there's a nucleus and there's you know

1810
01:10:55,399 --> 01:10:59,198
hydrogen's got one electron and helium's

1811
01:10:57,198 --> 01:11:02,399
got two and carbon how can we only get

1812
01:10:59,198 --> 01:11:03,919
you so far yeah so so you you understand

1813
01:11:02,399 --> 01:11:05,599
chemistry you understand the pattern

1814
01:11:03,920 --> 01:11:07,760
when you understand the building blocks

1815
01:11:05,600 --> 01:11:09,679
okay so we don't know why that pattern

1816
01:11:07,760 --> 01:11:11,039
is there but it's clearly telling us

1817
01:11:09,679 --> 01:11:13,279
about the building blocks or the

1818
01:11:11,039 --> 01:11:15,719
underlying Theory which we don't know so

1819
01:11:13,279 --> 01:11:18,319
it's one of the great Mysteries so so

1820
01:11:15,719 --> 01:11:19,679
this so that's the the the zoo of

1821
01:11:18,319 --> 01:11:22,000
particles as we know and then there's

1822
01:11:19,679 --> 01:11:24,399
the higs and just to be clear when I

1823
01:11:22,000 --> 01:11:27,079
attacked Steven Weinberg in the elevator

1824
01:11:24,399 --> 01:11:29,119
uh most of the particle identities I was

1825
01:11:27,079 --> 01:11:31,479
referencing are different combinations

1826
01:11:29,119 --> 01:11:33,079
of different quirks yeah come together

1827
01:11:31,479 --> 01:11:35,198
yeah so all these like you said in the

1828
01:11:33,079 --> 01:11:38,359
f50s and people were discovering all

1829
01:11:35,198 --> 01:11:39,919
these things and they're different

1830
01:11:38,359 --> 01:11:43,359
combinations of ups and downs and

1831
01:11:39,920 --> 01:11:45,279
strange and charm and and and bottom and

1832
01:11:43,359 --> 01:11:46,880
you know and so on so they exist in our

1833
01:11:45,279 --> 01:11:47,759
universe but again they're made of the

1834
01:11:46,880 --> 01:11:50,039
more

1835
01:11:47,760 --> 01:11:52,719
fundamental so so basically the these

1836
01:11:50,039 --> 01:11:54,800
things that the proton and neutron

1837
01:11:52,719 --> 01:11:56,880
they're kind analogous to an atom in a

1838
01:11:54,800 --> 01:11:59,279
way so so they're a thing they're quite

1839
01:11:56,880 --> 01:12:01,480
a big things in particle physics and

1840
01:11:59,279 --> 01:12:03,479
they have an internal structure and and

1841
01:12:01,479 --> 01:12:04,959
one yeah and one of the things that I

1842
01:12:03,479 --> 01:12:06,879
was involved in that we did back in

1843
01:12:04,960 --> 01:12:09,399
Hamburg all those years ago was we were

1844
01:12:06,880 --> 01:12:10,920
mapping the structure of the proton so

1845
01:12:09,399 --> 01:12:12,319
we we we're saying what what is in the

1846
01:12:10,920 --> 01:12:13,920
proton how does it work maing the

1847
01:12:12,319 --> 01:12:16,119
interior structure of the proton and we

1848
01:12:13,920 --> 01:12:17,760
need that we needed that for the LHC so

1849
01:12:16,119 --> 01:12:20,519
we need because we Collide protons

1850
01:12:17,760 --> 01:12:22,400
together so so we have very detailed

1851
01:12:20,520 --> 01:12:24,239
maps if you like they call structure

1852
01:12:22,399 --> 01:12:25,679
functions but they're maps of the of the

1853
01:12:24,238 --> 01:12:28,959
proton well

1854
01:12:25,679 --> 01:12:31,440
thank you pleasure for joining me I I

1855
01:12:28,960 --> 01:12:34,158
always love talking to you being we're

1856
01:12:31,439 --> 01:12:36,359
just like we're Kindred Spirits in this

1857
01:12:34,158 --> 01:12:39,079
world and I wish you great success with

1858
01:12:36,359 --> 01:12:41,519
your spring tour does it go beyond the

1859
01:12:39,079 --> 01:12:43,399
United States is it a world tour it has

1860
01:12:41,520 --> 01:12:46,480
been a world tour we've been to I don't

1861
01:12:43,399 --> 01:12:47,759
know 20 or 30 countries I said we we

1862
01:12:46,479 --> 01:12:49,799
we're probably approaching half a

1863
01:12:47,760 --> 01:12:52,199
million people who've come to okay so so

1864
01:12:49,800 --> 01:12:54,639
that's the that we're we're at the at

1865
01:12:52,198 --> 01:12:56,479
the end really of this one and so I just

1866
01:12:54,639 --> 01:12:59,239
wanted to bring it back here it's

1867
01:12:56,479 --> 01:13:02,079
changed so much we could started in the

1868
01:12:59,238 --> 01:13:04,439
states actually with it in its Proto

1869
01:13:02,079 --> 01:13:06,399
form and now and now I just I I've loved

1870
01:13:04,439 --> 01:13:07,638
doing it so much and I just wanted to

1871
01:13:06,399 --> 01:13:09,399
bring I just like the idea that a

1872
01:13:07,639 --> 01:13:10,880
science talk is being given but there

1873
01:13:09,399 --> 01:13:13,158
are trucks that have to unload the

1874
01:13:10,880 --> 01:13:16,639
staging for it it's Pro it's proper rock

1875
01:13:13,158 --> 01:13:19,638
and roll I got Ries I've got everything

1876
01:13:16,639 --> 01:13:21,079
do you have a Tor T-shirt with on it

1877
01:13:19,639 --> 01:13:23,159
yeah oh yeah all right I should have

1878
01:13:21,079 --> 01:13:24,519
brought one to one of those shirts oh my

1879
01:13:23,158 --> 01:13:26,719
god oh we've got everything and we've

1880
01:13:24,520 --> 01:13:29,159
done so many many shows I I how many it

1881
01:13:26,719 --> 01:13:31,679
is 150 200 they don't all fit on one

1882
01:13:29,158 --> 01:13:34,279
t-shirt so so we got different t-shirts

1883
01:13:31,679 --> 01:13:36,639
for different regions of the the world

1884
01:13:34,279 --> 01:13:39,198
physics takes the world uh very good

1885
01:13:36,639 --> 01:13:41,359
Brian again thanks for being on the show

1886
01:13:39,198 --> 01:13:44,079
this has been an exclusive conversation

1887
01:13:41,359 --> 01:13:46,158
between me and my good friend Brian Cox

1888
01:13:44,079 --> 01:13:48,880
from the UK who's coming

1889
01:13:46,158 --> 01:13:51,599
Stateside with a tour and we're going to

1890
01:13:48,880 --> 01:13:55,199
look for the solar system on should be

1891
01:13:51,600 --> 01:13:57,079
Rand yeah if does it BBC how many how

1892
01:13:55,198 --> 01:13:59,359
many episodes is it five five episodes

1893
01:13:57,079 --> 01:14:01,719
we'll look forward all right I this has

1894
01:13:59,359 --> 01:14:05,859
been star talk I'm your host Neil

1895
01:14:01,719 --> 01:14:09,039
degrass Tyson as always keep looking up

1896
01:14:05,859 --> 01:14:09,039
[Music]

1897
01:14:16,939 --> 01:14:21,779
[Music]

1898
01:14:25,170 --> 01:14:32,670
[Music]