[00:00] How do you get a game like this to
[00:02] connect with an audience that doesn't
[00:04] even know there was such a thing as a
[00:05] golden age of Islamic scientific
[00:07] development?
[00:08] >> Well, first of all, you make it fun. You
[00:09] make it a fun puzzle quest before you
[00:11] even think about the theme itself.
[00:12] >> It's a way of trying to have people
[00:14] engage with the with the Islamic
[00:17] history, in this case, the golden age,
[00:19] so that these things don't vanish.
[00:20] >> How bad do you think Islamophobia is in
[00:23] the United States right now?
[00:25] >> Every election cycle gets pretty bad.
[00:27] It's quite bad now. I believe that we
[00:30] have to do our work not in combating
[00:35] narratives but reaffirming our
[00:38] identities.
[00:44] Get ready for a new adventure where you
[00:46] can step back into time to the Muslim
[00:48] Middle Ages, collecting ancient
[00:50] artifacts, solving enigmatic puzzles,
[00:52] all to preserve the scientific legacy of
[00:54] the Islamic Golden Age as a fog of
[00:57] forgetfulness threatens to erase that
[00:58] knowledge forever. That's the premise of
[01:00] a new video game called Vanished: Puzzle
[01:02] Quest. It's made by Unity Productions
[01:05] Foundation, a group whose mission is to
[01:07] counter bigotry and create peace through
[01:09] media with a focus on increasing
[01:11] religious and cultural pluralism,
[01:12] especially among Muslims and other
[01:14] faiths. Joining me now is UPF assistant
[01:16] producer Ariela Gayoto Hull, who
[01:19] spearheaded the development of Vanished
[01:20] along with UPF co-founder and executive
[01:22] producer Alex Cron. Thank you both for
[01:25] joining me.
[01:26] >> Thank you.
[01:26] >> So, congratulations. The game is out,
[01:28] but let's just back into it. Ariel, I
[01:31] believe your background is in film
[01:33] making,
[01:33] >> correct?
[01:34] >> So, how did you end up working on a
[01:36] game? Why did you want to work on this
[01:37] game? What was your inspiration, your
[01:39] goal?
[01:40] >> Well, the biggest thing for us is how do
[01:42] we reach more people and the gaming
[01:45] industry is actually larger than film
[01:48] and music combined.
[01:50] >> So, for us, we felt like it was very
[01:52] important for us to get into this
[01:54] industry and reach more people that way
[01:56] in an interactive way to tell the story.
[01:58] And Alex, UPF's mission, as I mentioned,
[02:00] is to combat bigotry and increase
[02:02] cultural pluralism. How does a game like
[02:04] Vanished help you achieve that goal?
[02:06] >> Well, uh, as Ariela was saying, you
[02:09] know, gaming is big. Uh, we realize
[02:12] that, uh, we typically are making films
[02:15] and documentaries, but there's only a
[02:16] certain audience for that. There's an
[02:18] audience who will never watch a film,
[02:19] never watch a documentary. So, how do
[02:20] you also reach that audience? And that
[02:22] was the idea of doing a game. Um Ariela
[02:24] for a lot of kids uh in the American
[02:26] school system because we I mentioned in
[02:27] the introduction a lot of this is about
[02:29] Islamic history Islamic golden age um
[02:32] and we covered the movie recently time
[02:33] hoppers which covered this you know
[02:35] similar time period
[02:37] >> the history a lot of American kids learn
[02:38] in school and European kids is very
[02:41] euroentric focuses on the advancements
[02:43] of science and technology that came out
[02:45] of the west during the renaissance the
[02:47] enlightenment
[02:48] >> how do you get a game like this to
[02:51] connect with an audience that doesn't
[02:52] even know knew there was such a thing as
[02:54] a golden age of Islamic scientific
[02:55] development.
[02:56] >> Well, first of all, you make it fun.
[02:58] >> You make it about the interact the
[03:00] interactiveness of it. You make it a fun
[03:02] puzzle quest before you even think about
[03:04] the theme itself. So that was one of our
[03:05] priorities for us was to make sure the g
[03:08] game stood on its own. But really what
[03:10] we also wanted to do is to address that
[03:14] public awareness and that historic
[03:16] memory to get people to think about who
[03:18] are the people that contributed to the
[03:20] modern world, to science, to all these
[03:22] inventions that made us the society we
[03:24] are today in a way that feels natural
[03:26] and engaging.
[03:28] >> And if I could just add to that, the the
[03:30] and you kind of piggy on what you asked
[03:32] me earlier, the thing about the game is
[03:35] you're using objects that help you win.
[03:37] So you're interacting, you're engaged
[03:39] with them rather than sort of passively
[03:40] watching a film uh where you're trying
[03:42] to absorb something. This way
[03:45] understanding these objects and using
[03:46] the objects gives you a positive
[03:48] experience of progressing through the
[03:50] game.
[03:51] >> What's the feedback been like
[03:52] >> so far? Great. I mean we've only uh we
[03:54] just launched two weeks ago.
[03:55] >> Y
[03:56] >> we already have a couple hundred
[03:57] thousand downloads.
[03:59] >> Uh very we got five five stars on Apple
[04:03] and and almost that on Google Play. So,
[04:06] so far so good.
[04:07] >> So, let's talk big picture in terms of
[04:09] what you're trying to achieve here. And
[04:10] just for the sake of our audience, you
[04:12] are a white American man. You are, I
[04:15] believe, Brazilian.
[04:16] >> Correct.
[04:17] >> Are you Muslims liking this video? Then
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[04:32] Fearless Independent Journalism. Yes.
[04:35] So, you're both Muslims. So, let me ask
[04:36] you this question. How you both live in
[04:38] the US?
[04:39] >> Yes.
[04:39] >> How bad do you think Islamophobia is in
[04:42] the United States right now with members
[04:45] of Congress, Republican members, saying
[04:46] they'd pick a dog over a Muslim, saying
[04:49] Islam is evil and unamerican, others
[04:50] saying that Zoran Mandani as mayor means
[04:53] the enemies are within the gate.
[04:55] >> How bad do you think it is right now?
[04:57] >> Every election cycle gets pretty bad,
[04:59] right? And so, particularly with
[05:01] everything that's going on in the world,
[05:02] it's it's quite bad now. But we've been
[05:04] doing our work since before 9/11. So
[05:07] we've gone through a lot of n you know
[05:08] it was 911 there was the Iraq war.
[05:09] >> How does now compare to 911? The fallout
[05:11] from 911 in terms of
[05:13] >> Okay, here's the difference. I the
[05:14] leadership after 9/11 was more um
[05:18] positive and and wanted to make sure
[05:20] there wasn't a backlash.
[05:21] >> People forget that George W. Bush
[05:23] despite all his war crimes went to a
[05:24] mosque and said Islam is peace.
[05:25] >> Exactly.
[05:26] >> Which you cannot imagine Donald Trump
[05:27] doing.
[05:27] >> Exactly. And unfortunately since then
[05:30] you know we have particularly again in
[05:31] election cycles you have people you know
[05:34] trying to best themselves what's the
[05:36] worst thing they can say about Muslims
[05:37] and you know how can they seem you know
[05:39] people raising uh votes or trying to
[05:41] raise money and votes off of fear. So
[05:43] this is not a new phenomenon. We've
[05:45] experienced it before.
[05:46] >> Uh and um uh but what I think is
[05:50] different than than what we experienced
[05:52] 20 plus years ago when we first started
[05:54] our work is that there's there's a
[05:56] cultural shift that's happening. And I
[05:58] think it's happening honestly with work
[05:59] that you're doing, work that we've been
[06:01] doing, showing films, doing doing games,
[06:03] doing these things that are beginning to
[06:05] shift the perception of who Muslims are
[06:07] and what Islam is. So that when you do
[06:09] have these voices that say this, they
[06:10] start to land more and more on deaf
[06:12] ears. They don't have the same impact
[06:13] that they used to. So yes, we're hearing
[06:15] those voices again. Uh but I do feel
[06:18] like the the the cultural reaction to
[06:21] them is is more muted than it has been
[06:23] in earlier times. Are you as optimistic
[06:26] slashpositive as Alex Ariel?
[06:29] >> I believe that we have to do our work
[06:33] not in combating narratives but
[06:38] reaffirming our identities and that to
[06:41] me is at the core of the work that we
[06:43] do. We are not responding to things. We
[06:45] are creating things that come
[06:47] >> writing our own stories. Expanding the
[06:49] story.
[06:49] >> Exactly. Exactly. That's what I think
[06:51] matters to me the most. So, Alex, on
[06:53] that note, one of the enemies of this
[06:56] game, you could say, is the lack of
[06:57] awareness, the lack of corrective memory
[06:59] threatens to wipe out our knowledge of
[07:00] the past. And that's not just a Muslim
[07:01] thing. That's across the board in the
[07:02] United States. Um, what do you think
[07:05] about the current geopolitical situation
[07:06] in which this game is emerging at a time
[07:09] when you look at somewhere like Iran,
[07:11] cultural sites, major Islamic historical
[07:14] artifacts are being destroyed by our
[07:16] government.
[07:17] >> Right. Well, I mean, that's sort of the
[07:19] metaphor for the game is that is that
[07:22] these things are being lost. These
[07:23] things are being destroyed. There's a
[07:24] villain in the in the game who is
[07:27] causing these things to vanish, hence
[07:29] the name of the game. And you, the
[07:31] player, are combating that. And again,
[07:33] so it's a way of trying to have people
[07:34] engage with the with the Islamic
[07:37] history, in this case, the golden age,
[07:39] so that these things don't vanish, so
[07:41] these memories do stay. And again, I do
[07:44] I am somewhat optimistic. I do feel like
[07:46] um uh you know that
[07:50] and I I mean to go back to the first
[07:52] Trump administration when the Muslim ban
[07:54] happened. I remember getting out of an
[07:55] airport. I didn't know the H and there
[07:57] was like all these people protesting. I
[07:58] had no idea and they were they were
[08:00] white people, right? They weren't, you
[08:02] know, the PE and they were protesting
[08:04] because there hadn't already been a
[08:05] shift, right? And I do feel like there
[08:08] is a shift. I feel like it's continuing
[08:09] to happen. Again, it's happening through
[08:11] the efforts of many people and not just
[08:12] the efforts of organizations or like
[08:14] you, but efforts of individuals, you
[08:17] know, who who are more um proudly
[08:20] asserting their identity in the various
[08:22] fields in which they're doing good work.
[08:24] >> Area Vanished is available for free.
[08:27] >> It is.
[08:27] >> You also produced a documentary last
[08:29] year called Islam's greatest love
[08:30] stories which examines love and grief
[08:32] and I think PBS made that available. Um,
[08:35] why is it so important to have work like
[08:37] yours and UPFS publicly available,
[08:40] accessible with little or no cost?
[08:43] >> For many reasons. One of them is we want
[08:46] to center representation in a way that
[08:48] feels accessible to anyone. We want to
[08:51] make we wanted to make sure it was
[08:52] adree. We wanted to make sure it reached
[08:54] as many po people as possible that would
[08:56] connect with it either because of the
[08:58] theme itself or because of the way of
[09:00] the story and the narrative and the
[09:02] beautiful visuals or just simply because
[09:05] they want to do something that has to do
[09:06] with their own identity. So for us, I
[09:09] think what's been the most important is
[09:10] create narratives that feel universal
[09:13] but that are situated in a particular
[09:15] context that we as Muslims believe that
[09:17] are important but it's also natural to
[09:18] who we are and the stories that we're
[09:20] creating. So we want to create things
[09:22] that feel as universal as possible, as
[09:24] inaccessible to everyone as possible
[09:25] while also centering it in the
[09:27] particular context that we come from.
[09:29] >> And before we forget, you know, we we
[09:31] have a companion website called
[09:32] vanish.game. That's the URL that really
[09:36] uh explores much more deeply these
[09:38] themes, these ideas uh that Ariel is
[09:40] mentioning.
[09:41] >> And Alex, one of UPF's upcoming projects
[09:43] is a film called Son of Mary.
[09:45] >> That's right.
[09:45] >> What is that all about? How does that
[09:46] fit into your mission? Uh so in in that
[09:49] uh what we're doing in that film is
[09:51] we're telling the story of Jesus as he
[09:53] is known in the Islamic tradition and we
[09:55] see this as actually a bridge of unity.
[09:58] Uh most people don't know that Jesus is
[10:00] a beloved figure in Islam. Yes,
[10:02] >> he's mentioned uh by name more times
[10:04] than Muhammad is mentioned in the Quran
[10:06] >> that his mother is a virgin.
[10:07] >> His mother's a virgin. Mary plays in in
[10:10] the Islamic version, Mary plays a role
[10:12] throughout his whole life.
[10:14] >> Uh and and
[10:15] >> so this is a documentary feature film. a
[10:17] docu drama.
[10:18] >> Okay.
[10:18] >> The way we're pursuing it is a docu
[10:19] drama. And um
[10:21] >> um we believe that uh there's that this
[10:24] is a something that not only has its own
[10:26] educational value, not only that it has
[10:28] an affirming fact for Muslims, but also
[10:31] is is a bridge building exercise and
[10:34] that's how we're pursuing it.
[10:35] >> Before we finish, I have to go back to
[10:36] Vanished and ask you this question. I
[10:38] was never very good at video games. Is
[10:40] this a hard game to master?
[10:43] >> No.
[10:43] >> Can I can I do it?
[10:45] >> You can do it. And and as you play the
[10:46] game,
[10:47] >> is there an age group it's talking about
[10:48] or is it open to 46y old? It's it's for
[10:50] your age group. And if you get stuck on
[10:53] certain things, then there are hints
[10:54] that pop up the
[10:55] >> Then I'll just ask my kids.
[10:57] >> Absolutely.
[10:57] >> Alex Ariela, thank you so much. The game
[10:59] is called Vanished. And where can people
[11:01] get it?
[11:01] >> They can find it on Android in the
[11:03] Google Play Store. They can find it on
[11:05] the App Store, on Steam, and Epic Games
[11:07] on the desktop as well.
[11:08] >> Thank you both for joining me.
[11:09] >> Thank you, Matthew.
[11:10] >> Thank you.
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