WEBVTT 00:00:06.719 --> 00:00:13.759 Hello and welcome to the program. The AI 00:00:10.080 --> 00:00:16.320 revolution runs on electricity. Lots of 00:00:13.759 --> 00:00:18.880 it. Vast amounts of it. The data centers 00:00:16.320 --> 00:00:21.679 being built right now to power the next 00:00:18.879 --> 00:00:25.038 generation of AI consume as much energy 00:00:21.679 --> 00:00:27.118 as a small city. Last year, the world's 00:00:25.039 --> 00:00:30.400 biggest tech companies spent more than 00:00:27.118 --> 00:00:32.799 $400 billion building them. And they 00:00:30.399 --> 00:00:34.558 need more of them, many more of them. 00:00:32.799 --> 00:00:37.280 But there's a problem. In the United 00:00:34.558 --> 00:00:39.280 States, four in 10 of the data centers 00:00:37.280 --> 00:00:42.000 that are being planned for this year are 00:00:39.280 --> 00:00:44.879 at serious risk of delay. Not enough 00:00:42.000 --> 00:00:48.399 power, not enough equipment, and not 00:00:44.878 --> 00:00:51.039 enough people to build them. Why? Also 00:00:48.399 --> 00:00:53.359 on the program this week, Coachella, the 00:00:51.039 --> 00:00:55.679 world's most glamorous music festival. 00:00:53.359 --> 00:00:57.759 But some of the online influences you 00:00:55.679 --> 00:01:00.799 may have seen pictured in the California 00:00:57.759 --> 00:01:03.439 desert alongside the biggest stars were 00:01:00.799 --> 00:01:05.920 fake, not real. They don't exist. AI 00:01:03.439 --> 00:01:08.478 generated to promote brands and to make 00:01:05.920 --> 00:01:11.200 money. Plus, we'll also talk this week 00:01:08.478 --> 00:01:14.640 about the late Val Kilmer appearing in a 00:01:11.200 --> 00:01:16.719 new film one year after his death. with 00:01:14.640 --> 00:01:19.359 us this week to talk about it, Palmy 00:01:16.719 --> 00:01:20.959 Olsen, uh who is a technology columnist 00:01:19.359 --> 00:01:21.599 at Bloomberg. Welcome to you. 00:01:20.959 --> 00:01:24.559 >> Thank you. 00:01:21.599 --> 00:01:26.798 >> Also here, Dr. Sasha Luchoni, a computer 00:01:24.560 --> 00:01:29.359 scientist specializing in AI and its 00:01:26.799 --> 00:01:31.520 environmental impact and also in the 00:01:29.359 --> 00:01:34.560 studio with us. Uh good to have her back 00:01:31.519 --> 00:01:36.959 here. Dr. Stephanie Hair, colleague, uh 00:01:34.560 --> 00:01:39.680 author and AI expert to give you your 00:01:36.959 --> 00:01:41.919 full title. Um Pommy, let us start with 00:01:39.680 --> 00:01:44.240 this issue of data centers. Um we're 00:01:41.920 --> 00:01:46.399 building lots of them. They are powering 00:01:44.239 --> 00:01:48.798 the AI revolution. 00:01:46.399 --> 00:01:51.280 Why are so many of them on hold? 00:01:48.799 --> 00:01:52.960 >> Yeah. So this is really an issue of 00:01:51.280 --> 00:01:54.799 bottlenecks and you sort of alluded to 00:01:52.959 --> 00:01:57.599 it in your introduction. There's the 00:01:54.799 --> 00:01:59.840 issue of power. So getting access to 00:01:57.599 --> 00:02:01.839 actual power on electricity grids that 00:01:59.840 --> 00:02:03.439 are very very old and haven't received a 00:02:01.840 --> 00:02:06.240 lot of investment over many decades in 00:02:03.438 --> 00:02:07.519 the United States. Um also equipment, 00:02:06.239 --> 00:02:09.519 getting access to things like 00:02:07.519 --> 00:02:11.038 transformers or switch gear, which are 00:02:09.520 --> 00:02:13.280 the types of equipments you need to 00:02:11.038 --> 00:02:14.958 actually run data centers. There's also 00:02:13.280 --> 00:02:16.479 a huge bottleneck getting them. It could 00:02:14.959 --> 00:02:18.080 take up to five years to get some of 00:02:16.479 --> 00:02:20.719 that equipment, particularly because a 00:02:18.080 --> 00:02:22.719 lot of it comes from China and recent US 00:02:20.719 --> 00:02:24.318 tariffs on Chinese goods has made that 00:02:22.719 --> 00:02:25.919 even more difficult. And then there's 00:02:24.318 --> 00:02:28.639 also just getting the people, the 00:02:25.919 --> 00:02:30.159 talent, um the electricians um and the 00:02:28.639 --> 00:02:33.039 people with the skill set who can 00:02:30.159 --> 00:02:36.318 actually uh construct and run these data 00:02:33.039 --> 00:02:38.560 centers. Um so all those things combined 00:02:36.318 --> 00:02:42.159 have meant that at a time when there is 00:02:38.560 --> 00:02:44.000 this rapacious demand for um for energy 00:02:42.159 --> 00:02:47.120 from tech companies, it's actually very 00:02:44.000 --> 00:02:49.199 difficult to build them fast enough. 00:02:47.120 --> 00:02:51.680 >> Does that problem become more acute in 00:02:49.199 --> 00:02:53.598 the energy crisis we're in currently? 00:02:51.680 --> 00:02:56.080 >> I think it does to some extent and it's 00:02:53.598 --> 00:02:57.919 more of a problem for the so-called 00:02:56.080 --> 00:03:03.519 hyperscalers, the big tech companies 00:02:57.919 --> 00:03:04.958 like Meta, um Alphabet, Amazon, etc. who 00:03:03.519 --> 00:03:07.039 are actually the ones who have to shell 00:03:04.959 --> 00:03:10.080 out for these energy costs. And so 00:03:07.039 --> 00:03:12.479 they're setting up um these kind of mini 00:03:10.080 --> 00:03:15.599 nuclear reactors that can actually 00:03:12.479 --> 00:03:18.799 provide um energy specifically for the 00:03:15.598 --> 00:03:20.878 data center um and use renewable sources 00:03:18.800 --> 00:03:23.280 instead of gas. But at the moment even 00:03:20.878 --> 00:03:25.199 getting those up and running is 00:03:23.280 --> 00:03:26.560 logistically very very difficult. It's 00:03:25.199 --> 00:03:29.119 time consuming. There aren't any 00:03:26.560 --> 00:03:31.360 actually that are operational just yet. 00:03:29.120 --> 00:03:33.120 and and so right now I think the main 00:03:31.360 --> 00:03:35.519 source of energy is gas. 00:03:33.120 --> 00:03:36.878 >> Should we give our viewers just a scale 00:03:35.519 --> 00:03:38.158 of what we're talking about here? Scott 00:03:36.878 --> 00:03:40.000 Galloway who might be coming on the 00:03:38.158 --> 00:03:44.000 program next week over in New York, he 00:03:40.000 --> 00:03:47.280 says Open AI alone, Stephanie will need 00:03:44.000 --> 00:03:50.479 20% of current US electricity capacity 00:03:47.280 --> 00:03:52.318 at $10 trillion. 00:03:50.479 --> 00:03:54.158 >> That's extraordinary. It's extraordinary 00:03:52.318 --> 00:03:56.158 for a company that is yet to turn a 00:03:54.158 --> 00:03:59.280 profit and which is under huge pressure 00:03:56.158 --> 00:04:02.000 to demonstrate value ahead of an IPO as 00:03:59.280 --> 00:04:03.680 well. So it's just worth saying that all 00:04:02.000 --> 00:04:06.318 of these companies, not just OpenAI, 00:04:03.680 --> 00:04:08.239 were making very big promises about 00:04:06.318 --> 00:04:10.719 their data structure buildout plans as 00:04:08.239 --> 00:04:13.759 of last year. We've already seen the US 00:04:10.719 --> 00:04:15.598 UK technology deal that's on hold. We've 00:04:13.759 --> 00:04:20.319 seen OpenAI have to pull out of some of 00:04:15.598 --> 00:04:21.759 its Stargate, the big US data structure 00:04:20.319 --> 00:04:23.918 plan. and they've had to pull out on 00:04:21.759 --> 00:04:25.439 some of those things. Maybe we are 00:04:23.918 --> 00:04:27.918 walking back. So that question of will 00:04:25.439 --> 00:04:29.439 the AI bubble burst? It might not burst. 00:04:27.918 --> 00:04:30.959 It might just sort of slightly 00:04:29.439 --> 00:04:32.160 >> situation, isn't it? When you think that 00:04:30.959 --> 00:04:35.439 actually if you're going to plug these 00:04:32.160 --> 00:04:37.199 into the grid and you don't know whether 00:04:35.439 --> 00:04:39.680 these companies are going to survive in 00:04:37.199 --> 00:04:42.080 the scale or perhaps they're even bigger 00:04:39.680 --> 00:04:44.079 than they are right now, it you it's a 00:04:42.079 --> 00:04:45.599 difficult thing to plan. 00:04:44.079 --> 00:04:47.279 >> It's a difficult thing to plan when 00:04:45.600 --> 00:04:48.400 you're not a planned economy. Which is 00:04:47.279 --> 00:04:50.559 why when we're looking at the data 00:04:48.399 --> 00:04:52.159 center roll out in a country like China 00:04:50.560 --> 00:04:54.319 and comparing that to the United States 00:04:52.160 --> 00:04:55.439 or indeed here in Europe, we get very 00:04:54.319 --> 00:04:58.159 different pictures. 00:04:55.439 --> 00:05:00.478 >> Right. Um Dr. Luchi, Sasha, I'm going to 00:04:58.160 --> 00:05:02.479 call you Sasha. Does it make sense for 00:05:00.478 --> 00:05:05.120 the US president to be so vehemently 00:05:02.478 --> 00:05:07.680 opposed to renewable energy given the 00:05:05.120 --> 00:05:09.840 scale that we're talking? 00:05:07.680 --> 00:05:11.680 Well, the problem is is that the data 00:05:09.839 --> 00:05:13.679 centers are being built so quickly that 00:05:11.680 --> 00:05:15.759 renewable capacity has trouble keeping 00:05:13.680 --> 00:05:18.079 up, especially in rural areas, 00:05:15.759 --> 00:05:19.759 especially out outside of places where 00:05:18.079 --> 00:05:21.279 renewables are are are typically the 00:05:19.759 --> 00:05:24.080 case. So, I think that currently the 00:05:21.279 --> 00:05:26.399 emphasis is build faster, build bigger, 00:05:24.079 --> 00:05:28.639 and they don't want to wait around for 00:05:26.399 --> 00:05:30.879 solar or wind, which is why um 00:05:28.639 --> 00:05:32.639 essentially most uh the data centers 00:05:30.879 --> 00:05:34.079 that are coming online as quickly are 00:05:32.639 --> 00:05:35.918 essentially bringing in turbines on the 00:05:34.079 --> 00:05:37.758 back of trucks, natural gas. It's it's 00:05:35.918 --> 00:05:39.519 like bring your bring your own energy uh 00:05:37.759 --> 00:05:39.840 essentially and most of that is and they 00:05:39.519 --> 00:05:40.799 have the money 00:05:39.839 --> 00:05:41.519 >> is non-renewable. 00:05:40.800 --> 00:05:42.960 >> I mean these companies 00:05:41.519 --> 00:05:44.000 >> they have the money 00:05:42.959 --> 00:05:45.359 >> they have the money but actually 00:05:44.000 --> 00:05:46.959 currently there's a bottleneck even when 00:05:45.360 --> 00:05:48.879 you have the money because there's not 00:05:46.959 --> 00:05:50.478 enough turbines to to power all these 00:05:48.879 --> 00:05:52.959 data centers because there's there's a 00:05:50.478 --> 00:05:54.560 backlog nowadays and and even these uh 00:05:52.959 --> 00:05:57.198 these turbines can't be produced fast 00:05:54.560 --> 00:05:59.439 enough to to respond to demand. Palmy at 00:05:57.199 --> 00:06:02.478 Bloomberg recently you highlighted an 00:05:59.439 --> 00:06:03.680 issue in Northern Spain um with the data 00:06:02.478 --> 00:06:05.599 center build out there which has 00:06:03.680 --> 00:06:06.959 actually been held up as a a model for 00:06:05.600 --> 00:06:09.840 the rest of Europe but for the people 00:06:06.959 --> 00:06:12.318 who live around these projects the 00:06:09.839 --> 00:06:14.000 reality is sometimes very different why 00:06:12.319 --> 00:06:15.520 >> I think it's a common story we're also 00:06:14.000 --> 00:06:17.680 seeing in the United States a lot of 00:06:15.519 --> 00:06:19.038 push back from local residents in areas 00:06:17.680 --> 00:06:21.439 where companies want to build data 00:06:19.038 --> 00:06:24.478 centers and in northern Spain um there 00:06:21.439 --> 00:06:27.839 have been uh the situation is that AWS 00:06:24.478 --> 00:06:31.038 which is the cloud business of Amazon um 00:06:27.839 --> 00:06:33.119 sent letters to local people um saying 00:06:31.038 --> 00:06:35.839 we want to buy your land, giving them 00:06:33.120 --> 00:06:38.959 sometimes 4 days notice to say yes or 00:06:35.839 --> 00:06:40.560 no. Um and some of these people in in in 00:06:38.959 --> 00:06:42.959 northern Spain actually thought it was a 00:06:40.560 --> 00:06:44.560 scam at first. Um one lady went to her 00:06:42.959 --> 00:06:47.758 local town hall and even they didn't 00:06:44.560 --> 00:06:50.879 know. So, it's a real um kind of land 00:06:47.759 --> 00:06:53.919 grab almost to try and get land that is 00:06:50.879 --> 00:06:56.240 relatively cheap in an area where energy 00:06:53.918 --> 00:06:58.399 costs are relatively low and that are 00:06:56.240 --> 00:07:00.478 sparssely populated as well. It seems 00:06:58.399 --> 00:07:02.638 like an ideal situation for building a 00:07:00.478 --> 00:07:04.719 data center, but at the same time there 00:07:02.639 --> 00:07:06.160 is the reality for people who do live 00:07:04.720 --> 00:07:08.720 there and there are people who live 00:07:06.160 --> 00:07:10.639 there um that they have to give up that 00:07:08.720 --> 00:07:12.319 land or maybe the suddenly you've got 00:07:10.639 --> 00:07:14.400 this eyes sore in a place that you've 00:07:12.319 --> 00:07:15.919 lived in for many generations. If you're 00:07:14.399 --> 00:07:18.079 in a community like that though and 00:07:15.918 --> 00:07:20.959 you've already struggled to to get 00:07:18.079 --> 00:07:22.399 natural resources or to to to get 00:07:20.959 --> 00:07:24.560 electricity to get yourselves on the 00:07:22.399 --> 00:07:26.719 grid, does the arrival of a big AI 00:07:24.560 --> 00:07:28.639 company help in that process? Perhaps it 00:07:26.720 --> 00:07:31.520 it could help a community 00:07:28.639 --> 00:07:33.759 >> in some respects. And the funny part in 00:07:31.519 --> 00:07:36.478 that is that governments um local 00:07:33.759 --> 00:07:38.960 governments often uh frame data center 00:07:36.478 --> 00:07:40.959 buildouts as being great for jobs. Yeah. 00:07:38.959 --> 00:07:43.198 But I think you're conflating in that 00:07:40.959 --> 00:07:45.120 situation permanent jobs with 00:07:43.199 --> 00:07:46.639 construction jobs which are temporary. 00:07:45.120 --> 00:07:47.598 And so when you build out a data center, 00:07:46.639 --> 00:07:49.120 you're you're going to hire me. 00:07:47.598 --> 00:07:50.639 >> They're not are they not necessarily big 00:07:49.120 --> 00:07:52.319 employers once the kit is there? 00:07:50.639 --> 00:07:54.079 >> No, I think in a typical data center you 00:07:52.319 --> 00:07:56.639 might have about 100 people, most of 00:07:54.079 --> 00:07:58.399 them cleaners and security people. Um 00:07:56.639 --> 00:08:00.160 whereas for the buildout, sure, 00:07:58.399 --> 00:08:01.839 hundreds, maybe thousands of people, but 00:08:00.160 --> 00:08:02.960 then that's only temporary. 00:08:01.839 --> 00:08:04.478 >> All right, I'm going to bring in an 00:08:02.959 --> 00:08:06.560 audience question quite early into the 00:08:04.478 --> 00:08:08.000 program this week because it it it fits 00:08:06.560 --> 00:08:10.959 what you're talking about. It's from 00:08:08.000 --> 00:08:12.879 James in the UK. He says, "Sasha, AI 00:08:10.959 --> 00:08:15.038 companies continue to minimize this 00:08:12.879 --> 00:08:17.280 environmental impact." He points 00:08:15.038 --> 00:08:20.318 specifically to Sam Alman's recent claim 00:08:17.279 --> 00:08:22.318 that AI's water usage is minimal. James 00:08:20.319 --> 00:08:24.000 says that's simply not true. He also 00:08:22.319 --> 00:08:26.240 tells us that younger generations are 00:08:24.000 --> 00:08:28.160 increasingly boycotting generative AI 00:08:26.240 --> 00:08:30.800 for environmental reasons. So, here's 00:08:28.160 --> 00:08:33.200 his question. Should mainstream media be 00:08:30.800 --> 00:08:34.879 doing more to hold these companies to 00:08:33.200 --> 00:08:37.120 account? 00:08:34.879 --> 00:08:38.958 >> Definitely. Actually, a recent Guardian 00:08:37.120 --> 00:08:40.799 study found that uh the big tech 00:08:38.958 --> 00:08:43.119 companies were lobbying very very hard 00:08:40.799 --> 00:08:45.199 against transparency to make sure that I 00:08:43.120 --> 00:08:48.480 mean citing confidentiality to not 00:08:45.200 --> 00:08:50.640 include any uh energy figures or water 00:08:48.480 --> 00:08:52.639 figures about data centers and so we 00:08:50.639 --> 00:08:54.080 we're we're seeing them play dirty and I 00:08:52.639 --> 00:08:55.439 think it's time to ask for 00:08:54.080 --> 00:08:57.120 accountability and I think that 00:08:55.440 --> 00:08:59.200 especially in a time where people are 00:08:57.120 --> 00:09:00.720 increasingly sustainability conscious so 00:08:59.200 --> 00:09:03.440 so you know we make our decisions based 00:09:00.720 --> 00:09:05.360 on on the environment and and ethical 00:09:03.440 --> 00:09:07.279 concerns we need this information 00:09:05.360 --> 00:09:09.519 whether it be for choosing one AI model 00:09:07.278 --> 00:09:11.600 over the other for for using AI or not 00:09:09.519 --> 00:09:12.879 using AI, right? There's there's lots of 00:09:11.600 --> 00:09:14.240 decisions that we make on an everyday 00:09:12.879 --> 00:09:16.399 basis that we just don't have the 00:09:14.240 --> 00:09:18.480 information for. And especially since AI 00:09:16.399 --> 00:09:20.480 has become such a common technology, we 00:09:18.480 --> 00:09:22.000 definitely need these numbers and and 00:09:20.480 --> 00:09:24.000 these companies have them. It's just a 00:09:22.000 --> 00:09:26.080 matter of of giving them maybe positive 00:09:24.000 --> 00:09:26.879 and and and less positive incentives for 00:09:26.080 --> 00:09:28.959 sharing them. 00:09:26.879 --> 00:09:30.559 >> Well, well, let's let's try and choose 00:09:28.958 --> 00:09:32.399 to look at this positively because we're 00:09:30.559 --> 00:09:34.799 all using the technology. We're going to 00:09:32.399 --> 00:09:36.958 use it in our work. So we we need these 00:09:34.799 --> 00:09:39.679 companies to be successful if we're if 00:09:36.958 --> 00:09:41.838 we're going to employ AI fully. What 00:09:39.679 --> 00:09:43.838 does a responsible data center look 00:09:41.839 --> 00:09:45.920 like, Sasha? 00:09:43.839 --> 00:09:47.839 >> So you can definitely create them in a 00:09:45.919 --> 00:09:50.159 way that's u more integrated in the 00:09:47.839 --> 00:09:51.760 existing infrastructure. So currently um 00:09:50.159 --> 00:09:54.079 the data centers are being built out in 00:09:51.759 --> 00:09:55.439 a very kind of bigger is better kind of 00:09:54.080 --> 00:09:57.120 way. So typically they're outside of 00:09:55.440 --> 00:09:59.440 cities, they're huge like warehouse 00:09:57.120 --> 00:10:00.959 sized um but they can really be 00:09:59.440 --> 00:10:03.040 integrated like the smaller data centers 00:10:00.958 --> 00:10:04.639 can be in basement. Um, the heat can be 00:10:03.039 --> 00:10:06.879 reused to heat office buildings or 00:10:04.639 --> 00:10:08.799 university campuses. It's much easier to 00:10:06.879 --> 00:10:11.439 use renewable energy or or a mix at 00:10:08.799 --> 00:10:13.199 least of of renewable energy if if 00:10:11.440 --> 00:10:14.959 there's less capacity that's needed. 00:10:13.200 --> 00:10:16.720 >> You think it that maybe part of this 00:10:14.958 --> 00:10:18.319 answer is then partnering with other 00:10:16.720 --> 00:10:19.920 companies, 00:10:18.320 --> 00:10:21.519 >> partnering and rethinking the paradigm. 00:10:19.919 --> 00:10:23.199 So, currently it's like we need the 00:10:21.519 --> 00:10:25.200 biggest data centers, we need sovereign 00:10:23.200 --> 00:10:26.720 AI, we need, you know, bigger, let's 00:10:25.200 --> 00:10:28.000 build it out. Even in like I mean in 00:10:26.720 --> 00:10:29.440 Canada it's the same thing. We need our 00:10:28.000 --> 00:10:31.519 own data center. Let's let's build it 00:10:29.440 --> 00:10:33.040 out. But instead of thinking of that as 00:10:31.519 --> 00:10:34.240 as the the you know when you have a 00:10:33.039 --> 00:10:35.360 hammer everything's a nail I think we 00:10:34.240 --> 00:10:37.278 should be thinking about the nails that 00:10:35.360 --> 00:10:39.120 we have and thinking about okay so what 00:10:37.278 --> 00:10:41.039 do we need this data center for? Is it 00:10:39.120 --> 00:10:43.278 for a university? Is it for a private 00:10:41.039 --> 00:10:45.599 company? Is there a way of for example 00:10:43.278 --> 00:10:47.519 incentivizing uh some mix of renewables 00:10:45.600 --> 00:10:49.440 or or for example helping them build it 00:10:47.519 --> 00:10:51.839 out in a way that isn't you know bring 00:10:49.440 --> 00:10:53.680 your own turbine on a on a on a truck 00:10:51.839 --> 00:10:56.000 kind of situation. And so I think there 00:10:53.679 --> 00:10:58.319 are ways of being more more agile if we 00:10:56.000 --> 00:10:59.600 rethink our way of of doing AI. And it's 00:10:58.320 --> 00:11:01.519 not only for data sensors. Same thing 00:10:59.600 --> 00:11:02.959 for AI models. Instead of being like we 00:11:01.519 --> 00:11:04.639 need the biggest, we need the most 00:11:02.958 --> 00:11:06.799 energy intensive model for every single 00:11:04.639 --> 00:11:09.199 task. We can have smaller models for 00:11:06.799 --> 00:11:11.199 example ondevice models. Uh instead of 00:11:09.200 --> 00:11:12.879 having every query be dispatched to the 00:11:11.200 --> 00:11:14.720 cloud, we can have AI models running 00:11:12.879 --> 00:11:16.000 locally on our smartphones and and 00:11:14.720 --> 00:11:17.759 computers. So I think we should really 00:11:16.000 --> 00:11:20.399 be rethinking a little bit the way that 00:11:17.759 --> 00:11:23.838 we design and deploy AI currently. 00:11:20.399 --> 00:11:26.639 >> A quick question just to um satisfy my 00:11:23.839 --> 00:11:28.399 curiosity, Sasha. Um quick answers if 00:11:26.639 --> 00:11:30.399 you could. There are some country uh 00:11:28.399 --> 00:11:32.879 companies that are developing these air 00:11:30.399 --> 00:11:35.600 cooling systems to reduce water 00:11:32.879 --> 00:11:37.919 consumption. Do they work? 00:11:35.600 --> 00:11:40.959 >> Yes, but it's often a trade-off of using 00:11:37.919 --> 00:11:42.559 more energy and less water. So often um 00:11:40.958 --> 00:11:44.479 it's true that you can for example 00:11:42.559 --> 00:11:46.159 recycle water. So essentially water gets 00:11:44.480 --> 00:11:48.079 cycled through and it heats up and you 00:11:46.159 --> 00:11:50.078 have to cool it down. So either you need 00:11:48.078 --> 00:11:52.000 uh cooling towers or sometimes you know 00:11:50.078 --> 00:11:53.838 you cool it down with energy with 00:11:52.000 --> 00:11:55.200 electricity. And so it's often a 00:11:53.839 --> 00:11:57.120 trade-off where they're using more 00:11:55.200 --> 00:11:57.680 energy but but less water. It's a closed 00:11:57.120 --> 00:11:59.679 loop system. 00:11:57.679 --> 00:12:01.599 >> Yeah. And at the outset you you said 00:11:59.679 --> 00:12:03.679 that very often these data centers are 00:12:01.600 --> 00:12:06.079 outstripping what the renewable industry 00:12:03.679 --> 00:12:08.239 can provide for them. But there are good 00:12:06.078 --> 00:12:11.519 examples and I wanted to point to them 00:12:08.240 --> 00:12:13.919 where data centers have been cited very 00:12:11.519 --> 00:12:16.078 close to renewable energy. So Iceland is 00:12:13.919 --> 00:12:18.479 using geothermal, Norway using 00:12:16.078 --> 00:12:21.120 hydroelectric. Is that an example that 00:12:18.480 --> 00:12:23.759 other countries should be following? 00:12:21.120 --> 00:12:26.320 >> Yes. But I think that um very few 00:12:23.759 --> 00:12:28.319 countries I mean uh in in the current 00:12:26.320 --> 00:12:30.000 state of things have that extra capacity 00:12:28.320 --> 00:12:31.519 and also if these data centers continue 00:12:30.000 --> 00:12:33.839 to be so like for example if a data 00:12:31.519 --> 00:12:36.320 center uses as much energy as 100,000 00:12:33.839 --> 00:12:38.480 homes um there's very few grids 00:12:36.320 --> 00:12:40.480 renewable grids that can take that that 00:12:38.480 --> 00:12:42.079 can provide that energy on such a short 00:12:40.480 --> 00:12:43.680 notice. Even for example in Quebec where 00:12:42.078 --> 00:12:45.919 I live we have hydro but we don't have 00:12:43.679 --> 00:12:47.759 the extra capacity for you know in two 00:12:45.919 --> 00:12:49.679 years an extra 100 thousand homes to be 00:12:47.759 --> 00:12:51.439 built. It has to be gradual. And so it's 00:12:49.679 --> 00:12:53.759 really the timelines that often don't 00:12:51.440 --> 00:12:55.839 line up. And this is why natural gas is 00:12:53.759 --> 00:12:57.519 the cheapest, fastest solution. And and 00:12:55.839 --> 00:12:58.800 often there are long-term plans. Often 00:12:57.519 --> 00:13:00.159 it's like, well, in 10 years we're going 00:12:58.799 --> 00:13:02.000 to do renewables. In 10 years, we're 00:13:00.159 --> 00:13:04.078 going to do this. But in the meantime, 00:13:02.000 --> 00:13:05.679 it adds a lot of emissions. 00:13:04.078 --> 00:13:07.519 >> Okay. Well, you might have questions on 00:13:05.679 --> 00:13:08.719 what you've been hearing about data 00:13:07.519 --> 00:13:12.240 centers. You might have some strong 00:13:08.720 --> 00:13:14.000 thoughts on it. AI decoded atbc.co.uk. 00:13:12.240 --> 00:13:15.839 Now, since Stephanie has been focusing 00:13:14.000 --> 00:13:17.839 on clarity and regulation, I've got a 00:13:15.839 --> 00:13:20.720 story for her. Um, let me show you some 00:13:17.839 --> 00:13:23.920 images. Uh, these are images that look 00:13:20.720 --> 00:13:27.160 entirely real, but the people in them 00:13:23.919 --> 00:13:27.159 are fake. 00:13:27.440 --> 00:13:32.399 >> My Coachella week was so much fun. Let 00:13:30.399 --> 00:13:34.399 me take you around. It's a secret. You 00:13:32.399 --> 00:13:36.000 can be in Coachella as me just by a few 00:13:34.399 --> 00:13:38.639 prompts. Stay with me till the end for 00:13:36.000 --> 00:13:38.639 the prompts. 00:13:42.720 --> 00:13:49.519 They are computerenerated influencers 00:13:46.000 --> 00:13:52.078 uh who were seen photographed on 00:13:49.519 --> 00:13:56.159 Instagram alongside some of the most 00:13:52.078 --> 00:13:57.838 famous people at Coachella uh which is 00:13:56.159 --> 00:14:00.159 those in the know will know is this very 00:13:57.839 --> 00:14:03.600 trendy music festival in the desert in 00:14:00.159 --> 00:14:05.759 one of the desert valleys in California. 00:14:03.600 --> 00:14:09.040 How many of those engaging in these 00:14:05.759 --> 00:14:11.198 photographs knew that uh the people they 00:14:09.039 --> 00:14:12.639 were pictured alongside were fake? I 00:14:11.198 --> 00:14:14.559 would suggest not very many. I'm not 00:14:12.639 --> 00:14:16.959 even sure that Coachella knew that there 00:14:14.559 --> 00:14:18.319 were fake influences uh in the crowd. 00:14:16.958 --> 00:14:21.119 Stephanie, we've talked about this on 00:14:18.320 --> 00:14:23.199 the program before about AI generated 00:14:21.120 --> 00:14:25.679 beauty, the impact it has on young 00:14:23.198 --> 00:14:26.958 people. This for me, actually, I was 00:14:25.679 --> 00:14:28.719 reading about it this week. This feels 00:14:26.958 --> 00:14:30.799 like the next chapter of that. 00:14:28.720 --> 00:14:32.480 >> Yeah. And again, the law is just not fit 00:14:30.799 --> 00:14:33.919 for purpose on this. I think we're 00:14:32.480 --> 00:14:36.079 really going to have to get to a point 00:14:33.919 --> 00:14:37.759 where we have laws on the books that say 00:14:36.078 --> 00:14:39.838 if you have someone that's pre 00:14:37.759 --> 00:14:42.159 pretending to be a human being, it has 00:14:39.839 --> 00:14:43.600 to be labeled. It just has to because 00:14:42.159 --> 00:14:44.958 you're dealing with children first of 00:14:43.600 --> 00:14:47.519 all, so like anyone that's under the age 00:14:44.958 --> 00:14:49.359 of 18 needs to be protected, but you've 00:14:47.519 --> 00:14:50.720 also dealing with older people. You're 00:14:49.360 --> 00:14:53.120 also dealing with the potential for 00:14:50.720 --> 00:14:55.680 scam, for fraud, for misinformation and 00:14:53.120 --> 00:14:56.639 disinformation. So this would just solve 00:14:55.679 --> 00:14:58.239 a lot of things. 00:14:56.639 --> 00:15:00.480 >> Pommy, who's behind these images? What 00:14:58.240 --> 00:15:03.198 do they what do they want? From what I 00:15:00.480 --> 00:15:05.039 understand, it is mostly agencies. It's 00:15:03.198 --> 00:15:06.639 not, you know, it's not a cottage 00:15:05.039 --> 00:15:08.799 industry of people working from home. 00:15:06.639 --> 00:15:11.039 There are, you know, agencies most of 00:15:08.799 --> 00:15:14.319 the time in in Europe, in places like 00:15:11.039 --> 00:15:16.399 London, um, and on the continent who are 00:15:14.320 --> 00:15:18.079 producing these as branding exercises 00:15:16.399 --> 00:15:20.639 and as an opportunity for a brand to get 00:15:18.078 --> 00:15:24.000 a sponsorship. But for Yeah, absolutely. 00:15:20.639 --> 00:15:27.120 Um, if you think about it, an influencer 00:15:24.000 --> 00:15:28.879 um who has a brand sponsorship deal will 00:15:27.120 --> 00:15:30.560 be quite costly because if they want to 00:15:28.879 --> 00:15:33.120 go to Coachella, they want to go 00:15:30.559 --> 00:15:34.958 business class maybe. Um, they want to 00:15:33.120 --> 00:15:36.959 get a hotel, they want to get some other 00:15:34.958 --> 00:15:39.439 freebies. But if you have an influencer 00:15:36.958 --> 00:15:42.159 who you are sponsoring to hold your can 00:15:39.440 --> 00:15:44.639 of whatever in the photograph, um, 00:15:42.159 --> 00:15:46.879 they're not going to have a bad day or 00:15:44.639 --> 00:15:48.399 get old or look weird in the photo. 00:15:46.879 --> 00:15:50.078 They're always going to look great. It's 00:15:48.399 --> 00:15:51.600 funny, ahead of this program, I actually 00:15:50.078 --> 00:15:55.039 looked at some of these influencers who 00:15:51.600 --> 00:15:57.278 were in Coachella in Coachella and it 00:15:55.039 --> 00:15:59.198 was amazing like one of them had about 00:15:57.278 --> 00:16:02.240 170,000 followers and had it was 00:15:59.198 --> 00:16:05.599 pictures of her with Justin Bieber um 00:16:02.240 --> 00:16:07.360 with the Kardashians with Madonna and no 00:16:05.600 --> 00:16:09.440 one in the comments was saying this 00:16:07.360 --> 00:16:12.079 isn't real. They were all the comments 00:16:09.440 --> 00:16:14.320 were kind of congratulatory 00:16:12.078 --> 00:16:16.879 um and there was no disclosure at all on 00:16:14.320 --> 00:16:18.560 the Instagram profile that it was AI 00:16:16.879 --> 00:16:20.078 generated. So I think a lot of people in 00:16:18.559 --> 00:16:20.879 good faith would look at it and think 00:16:20.078 --> 00:16:22.799 this is really 00:16:20.879 --> 00:16:24.399 >> the obvious problem is Sasha that the 00:16:22.799 --> 00:16:27.039 very famous person who's gone to 00:16:24.399 --> 00:16:29.198 Coachella can say to someone who might 00:16:27.039 --> 00:16:30.639 be advertising kryptonite next to them 00:16:29.198 --> 00:16:32.399 look I don't want to be advertising 00:16:30.639 --> 00:16:34.720 kryptonite and they can push them away. 00:16:32.399 --> 00:16:37.278 They have no choice. They have no say in 00:16:34.720 --> 00:16:39.120 in an AI generated person being put next 00:16:37.278 --> 00:16:41.278 to them in a photograph that they pose 00:16:39.120 --> 00:16:43.360 for unknowingly. 00:16:41.278 --> 00:16:46.320 >> Yeah. In a in a world of AI agents, 00:16:43.360 --> 00:16:48.079 humans lose their own agency. I think to 00:16:46.320 --> 00:16:49.360 some extent and especially famous people 00:16:48.078 --> 00:16:51.519 because there's so many likenesses of 00:16:49.360 --> 00:16:53.680 them on the internet that it's very very 00:16:51.519 --> 00:16:55.679 easy to generate a false image or video 00:16:53.679 --> 00:16:57.758 now of of a celebrity. 00:16:55.679 --> 00:17:00.799 >> Didn't Stephanie, didn't we talk about 00:16:57.759 --> 00:17:02.800 New York bringing in new regulation to 00:17:00.799 --> 00:17:04.720 stop this? I think you had to put on 00:17:02.799 --> 00:17:07.198 your website whether you were you were 00:17:04.720 --> 00:17:08.798 using an AI generated influencer, but 00:17:07.199 --> 00:17:10.959 there's I mean some of these pictures 00:17:08.798 --> 00:17:11.918 from Coachella do do that, but plenty of 00:17:10.959 --> 00:17:13.439 them don't. 00:17:11.919 --> 00:17:14.720 >> Yeah. And that's the enforcement thing. 00:17:13.439 --> 00:17:15.199 Like there are all sorts of laws that 00:17:14.720 --> 00:17:16.798 are obvious 00:17:15.199 --> 00:17:19.759 >> from state to state is different. Right. 00:17:16.798 --> 00:17:22.959 >> Exactly. And how you know whose job is 00:17:19.759 --> 00:17:24.400 it to police that and how are they able 00:17:22.959 --> 00:17:25.919 to get the accountability that they 00:17:24.400 --> 00:17:27.519 need? So again this is a case of if you 00:17:25.919 --> 00:17:29.440 were to take them to court that's going 00:17:27.519 --> 00:17:31.519 to take years right it's going to cost a 00:17:29.440 --> 00:17:32.480 lot of money etc. So it's kind of like 00:17:31.519 --> 00:17:34.079 everything that we saw about 00:17:32.480 --> 00:17:35.440 accountability with social media not 00:17:34.079 --> 00:17:37.119 being very effective. 00:17:35.440 --> 00:17:39.679 >> I mean Coachella themselves could just 00:17:37.119 --> 00:17:40.558 say enough. You can't do this. It's up 00:17:39.679 --> 00:17:42.400 to the organizer. 00:17:40.558 --> 00:17:43.839 >> They absolutely could. And I think, you 00:17:42.400 --> 00:17:45.600 know, what you mentioned earlier about 00:17:43.839 --> 00:17:47.678 the uh the celebrities, you might want 00:17:45.599 --> 00:17:49.359 to just play the world's tiniest violin 00:17:47.679 --> 00:17:51.200 for these people for being in these 00:17:49.359 --> 00:17:53.439 photographs and potentially compromising 00:17:51.200 --> 00:17:55.519 situations. But I mean, ultimately, if 00:17:53.440 --> 00:17:57.840 they do get upset and if the brands get 00:17:55.519 --> 00:17:59.839 upset, I think that's perhaps going to 00:17:57.839 --> 00:18:03.119 be potentially even more effective than 00:17:59.839 --> 00:18:04.240 actual regulation in um in getting 00:18:03.119 --> 00:18:05.759 enforcement. So, 00:18:04.240 --> 00:18:08.000 >> what about the platforms though? I mean, 00:18:05.759 --> 00:18:09.200 in Instagram, Tik Tok, they're profiting 00:18:08.000 --> 00:18:11.440 from these engagements. 00:18:09.200 --> 00:18:13.519 >> Yes. And um technically on these 00:18:11.440 --> 00:18:15.759 platforms you're you are supposed to 00:18:13.519 --> 00:18:18.079 disclose if something is AI generated. 00:18:15.759 --> 00:18:22.720 The fact is nobody actually follows that 00:18:18.079 --> 00:18:24.558 rule. And Meta does have um automated 00:18:22.720 --> 00:18:26.319 systems that will try and look for 00:18:24.558 --> 00:18:28.960 things that are AI generated and tag 00:18:26.319 --> 00:18:30.639 them. But it's an almost impossible task 00:18:28.960 --> 00:18:33.440 because there's hundreds of thousands of 00:18:30.640 --> 00:18:35.200 posts made every day and many many many 00:18:33.440 --> 00:18:37.440 are slipping through the net. Now the 00:18:35.200 --> 00:18:41.279 thing is it is possible if they really 00:18:37.440 --> 00:18:43.919 wanted to. There are ways to put um a 00:18:41.279 --> 00:18:48.240 cryptographic signature on actual 00:18:43.919 --> 00:18:50.400 photographic images um called CP2A. Um 00:18:48.240 --> 00:18:52.319 but that's just not something that the 00:18:50.400 --> 00:18:54.240 tech companies are investing in because 00:18:52.319 --> 00:18:56.079 if you think about it, there is a 00:18:54.240 --> 00:18:57.599 commercial incentive to just let this 00:18:56.079 --> 00:18:59.439 carry on because to to your point 00:18:57.599 --> 00:19:02.480 earlier, do people actually like this? 00:18:59.440 --> 00:19:04.558 Weirdly, the public don't hate AI 00:19:02.480 --> 00:19:06.640 avatars. They're kind of okay with it 00:19:04.558 --> 00:19:07.839 >> if they know. I mean, how many people 00:19:06.640 --> 00:19:09.200 really know? because some of these are 00:19:07.839 --> 00:19:10.240 really good and they're getting better. 00:19:09.200 --> 00:19:11.759 >> I think that's just going to make it 00:19:10.240 --> 00:19:13.440 harder to to deal with. 00:19:11.759 --> 00:19:15.519 >> So weird. Everyone talks about being 00:19:13.440 --> 00:19:17.038 authentic and brands are all about your 00:19:15.519 --> 00:19:19.759 values and then they do this stuff 00:19:17.038 --> 00:19:20.240 that's so fake and people eat it up. 00:19:19.759 --> 00:19:21.839 >> Weird. 00:19:20.240 --> 00:19:23.839 >> Do we still call California the Wild 00:19:21.839 --> 00:19:25.038 West? No, maybe not. 00:19:23.839 --> 00:19:26.798 >> But this is the Wild West. 00:19:25.038 --> 00:19:28.720 >> Yeah, absolutely. 00:19:26.798 --> 00:19:30.240 >> Now, the late Val Kilmer was one of the 00:19:28.720 --> 00:19:32.240 greats. Do we agree on that? 00:19:30.240 --> 00:19:33.200 >> Yeah. Top Gun Batman forever. 00:19:32.240 --> 00:19:35.519 >> Real genius. 00:19:33.200 --> 00:19:37.440 >> Yeah. The Doors. I liked him in that. uh 00:19:35.519 --> 00:19:39.359 one of the Hollywood uh greats, one of 00:19:37.440 --> 00:19:41.200 the versatile actors of Hollywood as 00:19:39.359 --> 00:19:43.519 well. And he died a year ago, as many of 00:19:41.200 --> 00:19:46.080 you will know, age 65 after a long and 00:19:43.519 --> 00:19:48.879 sad battle with throat cancer. But he 00:19:46.079 --> 00:19:50.798 had been cast in a film uh a few years 00:19:48.880 --> 00:19:53.919 earlier. It's called As Deep as the 00:19:50.798 --> 00:19:56.960 Grave. It's a historical drama about uh 00:19:53.919 --> 00:19:58.400 the American Southwest. And uh of 00:19:56.960 --> 00:20:00.640 course, he didn't make it to set because 00:19:58.400 --> 00:20:03.120 he was he was too ill at the end. But 00:20:00.640 --> 00:20:06.240 this week, the trailer for that movie 00:20:03.119 --> 00:20:08.558 debuted at Cineacon in Las Vegas. He's 00:20:06.240 --> 00:20:10.400 in it. And every scene in which he is in 00:20:08.558 --> 00:20:16.599 and every line that he speaks, of 00:20:10.400 --> 00:20:16.600 course, is generated entirely by AI. 00:20:18.558 --> 00:20:22.759 >> Is me. 00:20:29.839 --> 00:20:35.639 Hey, hey, 00:20:32.640 --> 00:20:35.640 hey. 00:20:55.119 --> 00:20:58.119 Hey, 00:21:04.960 --> 00:21:09.600 >> don't fear the dead and don't fear me. 00:21:07.759 --> 00:21:12.400 His children gave their blessing to this 00:21:09.599 --> 00:21:14.000 Stephanie. Um, and just so everybody 00:21:12.400 --> 00:21:16.240 knows, the filmmakers followed the 00:21:14.000 --> 00:21:20.000 guidelines, spoke to the unions. Kilmer, 00:21:16.240 --> 00:21:22.720 in fact, himself uh embraced AI in his 00:21:20.000 --> 00:21:25.200 final movie, Top Gun Maverick. uh his 00:21:22.720 --> 00:21:28.079 his voice was recreated by AI, so he 00:21:25.200 --> 00:21:30.240 wasn't oblivious to this. 00:21:28.079 --> 00:21:33.359 Is this the blueprint, do you think, for 00:21:30.240 --> 00:21:35.519 for for AI in Hollywood, an ethical way 00:21:33.359 --> 00:21:37.839 of using it, or does it for you open a 00:21:35.519 --> 00:21:40.240 door that we can't close? 00:21:37.839 --> 00:21:42.079 >> I think it's just about choice. So, I 00:21:40.240 --> 00:21:43.759 like the idea that if directors and 00:21:42.079 --> 00:21:46.000 other artists want to experiment with 00:21:43.759 --> 00:21:47.200 AI, that they are doing so mindfully, 00:21:46.000 --> 00:21:49.279 that they're trying to come up with an 00:21:47.200 --> 00:21:51.200 ethical standard that is no doubt going 00:21:49.279 --> 00:21:53.519 to be discussed and may eventually be 00:21:51.200 --> 00:21:55.840 formalized. I also think it's really 00:21:53.519 --> 00:21:58.558 important for any creative person who 00:21:55.839 --> 00:22:00.720 doesn't want their likeness, their 00:21:58.558 --> 00:22:02.960 biometrics or their creative output to 00:22:00.720 --> 00:22:05.759 be used in this way to be able to say 00:22:02.960 --> 00:22:07.360 no. Right? So in that case for anybody 00:22:05.759 --> 00:22:09.599 who's a Hollywood actor listening and 00:22:07.359 --> 00:22:11.918 watching our show as we know they are 00:22:09.599 --> 00:22:12.959 >> um they would want to be all the way 00:22:11.919 --> 00:22:14.320 they want to be speaking with their 00:22:12.960 --> 00:22:16.480 agents and with their team and their 00:22:14.319 --> 00:22:17.918 lawyers to be really clear about that. 00:22:16.480 --> 00:22:19.759 So you know how do you want your 00:22:17.919 --> 00:22:21.360 likeness being used while you're alive 00:22:19.759 --> 00:22:23.038 and then how do you want it being used 00:22:21.359 --> 00:22:25.119 after your death. So in this case Bal 00:22:23.038 --> 00:22:26.640 Kilmer's children were fine with it. His 00:22:25.119 --> 00:22:28.000 estate's fine with it and everything was 00:22:26.640 --> 00:22:30.559 done with everyone being I think as 00:22:28.000 --> 00:22:32.640 ethical as they can be. Other actors 00:22:30.558 --> 00:22:34.158 have made different choices. C can I 00:22:32.640 --> 00:22:35.919 just say Stephanie for the record that 00:22:34.159 --> 00:22:38.480 if you're going to use my likeness for 00:22:35.919 --> 00:22:40.000 AI decoded into the future I am happy 00:22:38.480 --> 00:22:42.640 for that so long as you pay the 00:22:40.000 --> 00:22:44.159 royalties to my estate just on the 00:22:42.640 --> 00:22:46.000 record so we're all cleared. 00:22:44.159 --> 00:22:48.960 >> Um Sasha I mean obviously Hollywood 00:22:46.000 --> 00:22:50.960 Hollywood actors are are a gift aren't 00:22:48.960 --> 00:22:53.279 they for AI because there's there's 00:22:50.960 --> 00:22:55.679 hundreds of hours of film of them. 00:22:53.279 --> 00:22:58.240 They've been in lots of performances. Uh 00:22:55.679 --> 00:23:01.038 and so in fact I think this performance 00:22:58.240 --> 00:23:04.079 that Kilmer in of this movie was it was 00:23:01.038 --> 00:23:06.319 reconstructed from 40 films hundreds of 00:23:04.079 --> 00:23:09.279 hours of footage. So as long as you 00:23:06.319 --> 00:23:10.558 signed up to this sky's is the limit. 00:23:09.279 --> 00:23:13.038 >> I think that's a very hard ethical 00:23:10.558 --> 00:23:15.038 question. Um I've seen a lot of papers. 00:23:13.038 --> 00:23:16.640 I even saw a theater play on this topic 00:23:15.038 --> 00:23:18.558 especially after death actually. I think 00:23:16.640 --> 00:23:20.480 that's a really important point. Uh who 00:23:18.558 --> 00:23:22.879 can opt in? How can you opt out if 00:23:20.480 --> 00:23:24.079 you're dead? Um, and also what does this 00:23:22.880 --> 00:23:25.520 mean for the community? Because if 00:23:24.079 --> 00:23:27.678 there's peer pressure, for example, and 00:23:25.519 --> 00:23:29.200 I think that actually AI was one of the 00:23:27.679 --> 00:23:30.720 one of the sticking points during the 00:23:29.200 --> 00:23:32.319 strikes a couple of years ago, right? 00:23:30.720 --> 00:23:33.679 Uh, to what extent is there is there 00:23:32.319 --> 00:23:35.918 union pressure? Is there community 00:23:33.679 --> 00:23:38.640 pressure to opt in? Can you can you 00:23:35.919 --> 00:23:40.480 continue opting out in this new new 00:23:38.640 --> 00:23:41.919 world, right? And it's it's similar to 00:23:40.480 --> 00:23:43.360 what a lot of workers are facing as 00:23:41.919 --> 00:23:44.880 well. Um, I'm hearing a lot of people 00:23:43.359 --> 00:23:46.558 being like, well, I'm forced to use AI 00:23:44.880 --> 00:23:48.640 in my in my workplace. We even have 00:23:46.558 --> 00:23:49.839 dashboards for tracking it. And so, it's 00:23:48.640 --> 00:23:52.720 really this pressure that we're seeing 00:23:49.839 --> 00:23:54.879 to use AI. And I think that that does uh 00:23:52.720 --> 00:23:56.240 uh make people give up some of their 00:23:54.880 --> 00:23:57.600 individual choices if they feel 00:23:56.240 --> 00:23:59.919 pressured to. So for example, if you're 00:23:57.599 --> 00:24:01.119 a young actor and you want to uh you 00:23:59.919 --> 00:24:02.640 know make your make a name for yourself, 00:24:01.119 --> 00:24:04.158 but you don't want to use AI but you 00:24:02.640 --> 00:24:05.840 have this peer pressure around you, can 00:24:04.159 --> 00:24:08.400 you really opt out without having a 00:24:05.839 --> 00:24:10.399 negative impact on your career? 00:24:08.400 --> 00:24:13.440 >> Yeah. Yeah. And and I think um Hollywood 00:24:10.400 --> 00:24:16.000 has already this history of recycling 00:24:13.440 --> 00:24:17.840 old films and making sequels and making 00:24:16.000 --> 00:24:19.519 remakes. And I think there is already 00:24:17.839 --> 00:24:21.918 this tendency to want to maximize 00:24:19.519 --> 00:24:24.639 profits by going back to whatever works. 00:24:21.919 --> 00:24:28.240 And if that's the incentive driving the 00:24:24.640 --> 00:24:30.880 remake of an actor who has died, I think 00:24:28.240 --> 00:24:32.960 in the end that can actually put younger 00:24:30.880 --> 00:24:34.720 fresh talent out of work if it's just 00:24:32.960 --> 00:24:36.480 the kind of the same icons appearing 00:24:34.720 --> 00:24:39.038 over and over again for the next 100 00:24:36.480 --> 00:24:41.200 years. Um, and to Sasha's point as well, 00:24:39.038 --> 00:24:43.119 I think where that pressure comes from, 00:24:41.200 --> 00:24:45.120 like I've spoken to a company that does 00:24:43.119 --> 00:24:48.479 virtual reality concerts or Avatar 00:24:45.119 --> 00:24:51.278 concerts, um, and they have had pressure 00:24:48.480 --> 00:24:55.120 from the families of artists who have 00:24:51.278 --> 00:24:57.278 died to try and recreate the the the 00:24:55.119 --> 00:24:58.798 deceased artist for a concert, 00:24:57.278 --> 00:24:59.359 >> not knowing whether there's consent or 00:24:58.798 --> 00:25:01.359 not for that. 00:24:59.359 --> 00:25:02.319 >> And it's a very gray area. It's a very 00:25:01.359 --> 00:25:06.079 because we're talking about people who 00:25:02.319 --> 00:25:07.678 died maybe 10 20 years ago, icons um 00:25:06.079 --> 00:25:09.199 putting pressure on them as a it's a new 00:25:07.679 --> 00:25:10.320 revenue source for the family left 00:25:09.200 --> 00:25:13.278 behind for the estate. 00:25:10.319 --> 00:25:15.359 >> We're out of time. Pie uh Sasha 00:25:13.278 --> 00:25:18.240 Stephanie, thank you very much indeed. 00:25:15.359 --> 00:25:20.158 Um uh AI decoded next week. Uh we think 00:25:18.240 --> 00:25:21.679 Scott Galloway is coming on. I'm putting 00:25:20.159 --> 00:25:24.400 that out there so he does come on next 00:25:21.679 --> 00:25:25.840 week. Um so do tune in for that. If you 00:25:24.400 --> 00:25:29.919 have any thoughts on anything we've 00:25:25.839 --> 00:25:32.000 discussed, uh do email us aidbc.co.uk. 00:25:29.919 --> 00:25:35.120 UK. And I'm going to put on screen for 00:25:32.000 --> 00:25:36.798 you the QR code for the AI decoded 00:25:35.119 --> 00:25:38.158 playlist which is on YouTube. Some of 00:25:36.798 --> 00:25:39.918 you struggling to find it. There it is. 00:25:38.159 --> 00:25:42.559 If you scan the QR code, you'll be able 00:25:39.919 --> 00:25:44.480 to find it. All the backup episodes are 00:25:42.558 --> 00:25:45.759 there. So, do take a look at that. And 00:25:44.480 --> 00:25:48.720 don't forget if you want to watch us 00:25:45.759 --> 00:25:50.158 again, we are on the BBC i Player. Uh, 00:25:48.720 --> 00:25:51.759 that's all the housekeeping. Thank you 00:25:50.159 --> 00:25:53.278 very much for watching. Thank you to our 00:25:51.759 --> 00:25:56.278 guests this week. We'll see you next 00:25:53.278 --> 00:25:56.278 time.