WEBVTT 00:00:00.080 --> 00:00:06.639 Namaskar. On the first anniversary of 00:00:03.120 --> 00:00:10.400 operation Sindur, in this episode of 00:00:06.639 --> 00:00:14.719 Manikibat Sunnit Kasad, we ask the 00:00:10.400 --> 00:00:17.760 unasked question. Did China 00:00:14.718 --> 00:00:21.839 operation Sindur? The context of this 00:00:17.760 --> 00:00:25.519 question is China's first official 00:00:21.839 --> 00:00:28.079 statement in its state-run TV channel 00:00:25.518 --> 00:00:32.079 where it has affirmed that in kinetic 00:00:28.079 --> 00:00:35.839 combat operation Sindur brought China 00:00:32.079 --> 00:00:38.719 decisively on Pakistan's side. To assist 00:00:35.840 --> 00:00:41.600 us in exploring this angle, we've 00:00:38.719 --> 00:00:44.480 requested our old friend Pravin Sony, 00:00:41.600 --> 00:00:47.840 editor of Force magazine, to explain to 00:00:44.479 --> 00:00:50.959 us the significance of China's official 00:00:47.840 --> 00:00:54.640 confirmation that Chinese made a 00:00:50.960 --> 00:00:58.878 Chinese-made fighter J10CE 00:00:54.640 --> 00:01:01.520 shot down at least one Rafal. Do you sir 00:00:58.878 --> 00:01:03.280 endorse this claim? 00:01:01.520 --> 00:01:04.719 uh it's much more than that and uh 00:01:03.280 --> 00:01:07.439 you've asked a very relevant question 00:01:04.719 --> 00:01:09.760 and this is a question that everybody 00:01:07.438 --> 00:01:13.118 needs to think very deep about and the 00:01:09.760 --> 00:01:15.600 question is that Changdu Aviation of 00:01:13.118 --> 00:01:19.359 China they are the people who have made 00:01:15.599 --> 00:01:22.399 this aircraft G10 and the engineers from 00:01:19.359 --> 00:01:24.319 the Changdu research center that means 00:01:22.400 --> 00:01:26.478 the people who understand the nuts and 00:01:24.319 --> 00:01:31.039 bolts who understand the software 00:01:26.478 --> 00:01:31.039 everything they were physically present 00:01:31.118 --> 00:01:32.799 Yes, with 00:01:31.759 --> 00:01:35.439 >> during the war. 00:01:32.799 --> 00:01:37.680 >> That's right. With the Pakistanis, the 00:01:35.438 --> 00:01:39.919 Pakistan air force, they were physically 00:01:37.680 --> 00:01:40.720 there and that changes the game 00:01:39.920 --> 00:01:42.879 entirely. 00:01:40.719 --> 00:01:44.719 >> But were they participating in the war? 00:01:42.879 --> 00:01:46.879 >> Yes, they were participating in the war 00:01:44.719 --> 00:01:49.039 and that is what I want to explain so 00:01:46.879 --> 00:01:52.239 that the viewers understand what we are 00:01:49.040 --> 00:01:54.880 up against. So they were participating 00:01:52.239 --> 00:01:57.599 in the war and whereas the Pakistan Air 00:01:54.879 --> 00:01:59.199 Force pilots, they were focusing on the 00:01:57.599 --> 00:02:01.199 flight. 00:01:59.200 --> 00:02:04.000 What these engineers on the ground were 00:02:01.200 --> 00:02:06.719 doing is they were focusing in is what 00:02:04.000 --> 00:02:08.479 is called networks. Network basically 00:02:06.718 --> 00:02:10.959 means I'll just come to that in a while 00:02:08.479 --> 00:02:13.360 to explain network is a very critical 00:02:10.959 --> 00:02:15.439 component of operations. 00:02:13.360 --> 00:02:18.640 >> So what they were doing there is two 00:02:15.439 --> 00:02:21.439 things. One what they did was before the 00:02:18.639 --> 00:02:23.359 flight took over they did the 00:02:21.439 --> 00:02:25.199 maintenance. Maintenance is very 00:02:23.360 --> 00:02:27.200 important because we understand the 00:02:25.199 --> 00:02:28.799 temperatures there they were touching 00:02:27.199 --> 00:02:31.439 50° centigrade 00:02:28.800 --> 00:02:32.959 >> had the Chinese engineer has said that 00:02:31.439 --> 00:02:35.598 they were sweating it out 00:02:32.959 --> 00:02:37.598 >> that's right so with those temperatures 00:02:35.598 --> 00:02:39.679 it was the job of the engineers and mind 00:02:37.598 --> 00:02:41.439 you let me repeat that these are the 00:02:39.680 --> 00:02:44.000 engineers from the Changu research 00:02:41.439 --> 00:02:46.079 center they are not Pakistanis 00:02:44.000 --> 00:02:48.000 >> so these were the people whose job was 00:02:46.080 --> 00:02:51.200 to before the flight takes off to 00:02:48.000 --> 00:02:52.318 maintain the integrity of the ISA radars 00:02:51.199 --> 00:02:54.399 of the J10 00:02:52.318 --> 00:02:56.560 and to maintain the integrity of the 00:02:54.400 --> 00:02:57.439 electronic warfare which is about 00:02:56.560 --> 00:02:59.439 jamming. 00:02:57.439 --> 00:03:02.318 >> So that is called the active 00:02:59.439 --> 00:03:04.400 electronically scanned array. 00:03:02.318 --> 00:03:06.479 >> That's right. That's the ISA radar. So 00:03:04.400 --> 00:03:08.080 that is one job they were doing and the 00:03:06.479 --> 00:03:10.158 other job of course you know before the 00:03:08.080 --> 00:03:12.480 flights takes off any problems 00:03:10.158 --> 00:03:14.959 mechanical problems or any software 00:03:12.479 --> 00:03:15.759 problems because these are those complex 00:03:14.959 --> 00:03:18.000 machines. 00:03:15.759 --> 00:03:19.120 >> The most important thing is to underline 00:03:18.000 --> 00:03:21.360 software problems. 00:03:19.120 --> 00:03:23.120 >> Absolutely. So this was the job before 00:03:21.360 --> 00:03:25.920 the flight took off which is a very 00:03:23.120 --> 00:03:28.158 critical job. Now once the flight took 00:03:25.919 --> 00:03:30.719 off we were told and this was the 00:03:28.158 --> 00:03:33.840 official briefing given by the Pakistan 00:03:30.719 --> 00:03:37.039 air force senior officer a vice marshal 00:03:33.840 --> 00:03:39.360 a man called orang Ahmed. He gave this 00:03:37.039 --> 00:03:41.919 briefing on the 8th of March morning to 00:03:39.360 --> 00:03:44.879 the international media where he spoke 00:03:41.919 --> 00:03:46.559 about a new concept which they had tried 00:03:44.878 --> 00:03:49.280 and they have done it successfully 00:03:46.560 --> 00:03:52.719 called multi-dommain operations. In very 00:03:49.280 --> 00:03:57.759 simple terms, what this is about is that 00:03:52.719 --> 00:03:59.598 the J10 did not open its ISA radar. It 00:03:57.759 --> 00:04:02.479 kept the radar shut. 00:03:59.598 --> 00:04:04.560 >> Because radar can do two things. It is a 00:04:02.479 --> 00:04:07.039 active radar also. That means it sends 00:04:04.560 --> 00:04:10.000 the beams to the fighter of the Indian 00:04:07.039 --> 00:04:13.120 side and the beams they bounce back but 00:04:10.000 --> 00:04:15.598 Indian fighter will get to know that 00:04:13.120 --> 00:04:16.319 enemy uh aircraft is here. So they kept 00:04:15.598 --> 00:04:17.039 that off. 00:04:16.319 --> 00:04:20.000 >> I see. 00:04:17.040 --> 00:04:22.079 >> So what they had was a another radar 00:04:20.000 --> 00:04:24.639 which is a passive radar which is called 00:04:22.079 --> 00:04:27.040 the infrared tracking system. But I'll 00:04:24.639 --> 00:04:29.120 just come to the point what it is about 00:04:27.040 --> 00:04:31.680 that is about heat. That means when the 00:04:29.120 --> 00:04:33.680 enemy aircraft is there, it is able to 00:04:31.680 --> 00:04:36.959 detect the heat and say all right the 00:04:33.680 --> 00:04:38.800 enemy aircraft is there. But when you 00:04:36.959 --> 00:04:41.599 have your radar off, who gives you the 00:04:38.800 --> 00:04:44.800 data then? That is the problem. So the 00:04:41.600 --> 00:04:47.280 data was coming from another aircraft 00:04:44.800 --> 00:04:49.600 which is the AEW which is the airborne 00:04:47.279 --> 00:04:52.638 electronic airborne early warning and 00:04:49.600 --> 00:04:55.600 control system. Now how it works is this 00:04:52.639 --> 00:04:57.600 aircraft which had the radar rod is only 00:04:55.600 --> 00:05:00.960 for tracking the targets and it is way 00:04:57.600 --> 00:05:02.960 way way behind. So it gets the target 00:05:00.959 --> 00:05:06.319 and after getting the target it has to 00:05:02.959 --> 00:05:09.038 send that target data to the J10 pilot 00:05:06.319 --> 00:05:11.839 and the J10 pilot does not have his 00:05:09.038 --> 00:05:16.079 radar on but it has a very important 00:05:11.839 --> 00:05:19.119 thing in the J10 what is called the SDR. 00:05:16.079 --> 00:05:20.800 SDR is a softwaredefined radio and this 00:05:19.120 --> 00:05:23.038 is where the engineers come in the 00:05:20.800 --> 00:05:26.319 Chinese engineers. This is like the 00:05:23.038 --> 00:05:31.839 brain of the aircraft and what it has in 00:05:26.319 --> 00:05:33.680 it is it has a playlist of you know uh 00:05:31.839 --> 00:05:35.038 various frequencies which can be changed 00:05:33.680 --> 00:05:35.439 in split second. 00:05:35.038 --> 00:05:37.279 >> Mhm. 00:05:35.439 --> 00:05:39.600 >> Hundreds and hundreds of frequencies are 00:05:37.279 --> 00:05:41.839 there and you have to maintain all that 00:05:39.600 --> 00:05:44.639 and this is what is plugged in by those 00:05:41.839 --> 00:05:47.359 engineers the ground engineers here. So 00:05:44.639 --> 00:05:50.560 when you get that data, what the SDR 00:05:47.360 --> 00:05:52.879 does is that it sees the data. It first 00:05:50.560 --> 00:05:56.000 synchronizes, it checks the data with 00:05:52.879 --> 00:05:56.719 what I said the infrared passive radar. 00:05:56.000 --> 00:05:58.720 >> Oh, I see. 00:05:56.720 --> 00:06:01.039 >> And says, "All right, this is fine." And 00:05:58.720 --> 00:06:03.039 then that data is sent to the mission 00:06:01.038 --> 00:06:04.719 computer where the pilot is sitting with 00:06:03.038 --> 00:06:05.360 all the controls in front of him 00:06:04.720 --> 00:06:08.639 >> in the plane. 00:06:05.360 --> 00:06:11.360 >> In the plane, SDR is in the plane. So to 00:06:08.639 --> 00:06:13.840 get that data from there and to ensure 00:06:11.360 --> 00:06:16.720 the integrity of the data that there is 00:06:13.839 --> 00:06:19.119 no jamming attack by the Indian side all 00:06:16.720 --> 00:06:19.919 this is the job of the engineers on the 00:06:19.120 --> 00:06:22.319 ground 00:06:19.918 --> 00:06:23.918 >> who put the SDR there 00:06:22.319 --> 00:06:25.039 >> and the Chinese are sitting there 00:06:23.918 --> 00:06:27.918 >> it's right there 00:06:25.038 --> 00:06:30.000 >> that is it man that is my question the 00:06:27.918 --> 00:06:32.478 Chinese are sitting there they did not 00:06:30.000 --> 00:06:35.918 suddenly drop from the sky and sit there 00:06:32.478 --> 00:06:37.758 with the Pakistani engineers or defense 00:06:35.918 --> 00:06:41.279 personnel so under what arrange 00:06:37.759 --> 00:06:43.120 arrangement was this done and how was it 00:06:41.279 --> 00:06:44.799 time that they were there at that time. 00:06:43.120 --> 00:06:47.360 Of course, we had given them warning. 00:06:44.800 --> 00:06:49.840 There was a big gap after the Pelgam uh 00:06:47.360 --> 00:06:52.560 terror strike and the beginning of our 00:06:49.839 --> 00:06:54.560 attack under operation Synindur. So they 00:06:52.560 --> 00:06:56.240 had enough time to call the Chinese but 00:06:54.560 --> 00:06:58.160 they can't suddenly pick up the phone 00:06:56.240 --> 00:06:59.680 and say you know the India is going to 00:06:58.160 --> 00:07:01.520 attack us you come. So under what 00:06:59.680 --> 00:07:03.360 arrangement were they there? What 00:07:01.519 --> 00:07:04.879 training was given to the Pakistani 00:07:03.360 --> 00:07:05.680 counterpart? You know you've asked an 00:07:04.879 --> 00:07:08.959 excellent question 00:07:05.680 --> 00:07:11.680 >> and one more question to that and did we 00:07:08.959 --> 00:07:13.439 know or because our air atache was not 00:07:11.680 --> 00:07:14.720 there did we not know 00:07:13.439 --> 00:07:17.038 >> you know you've asked an excellent 00:07:14.720 --> 00:07:20.639 question so the story goes back to 00:07:17.038 --> 00:07:23.279 actually 5th August 2019 00:07:20.639 --> 00:07:25.840 >> oh that's a good seven years almost 00:07:23.279 --> 00:07:26.559 that's also the date on which Kashmir's 00:07:25.839 --> 00:07:27.439 special state 00:07:26.560 --> 00:07:28.478 >> I'm talking of that 00:07:27.439 --> 00:07:31.038 >> I see I see 00:07:28.478 --> 00:07:34.000 >> so the significance is what he has said 00:07:31.038 --> 00:07:35.839 and after that all the leaders of chi 00:07:34.000 --> 00:07:38.560 Chinese leaders have publicly been 00:07:35.839 --> 00:07:40.799 saying that we support Pakistan's 00:07:38.560 --> 00:07:43.680 sovereignity and territorial integrity 00:07:40.800 --> 00:07:45.840 and how you support that is by training 00:07:43.680 --> 00:07:48.400 the two air forces had been doing 00:07:45.839 --> 00:07:50.799 complex advanced training where all 00:07:48.399 --> 00:07:53.279 these things were done and after as you 00:07:50.800 --> 00:07:56.400 rightly pointed out the pelgam attack 00:07:53.279 --> 00:07:58.399 happened on 22nd of April it is after 00:07:56.399 --> 00:08:00.799 that the all the engineers and they are 00:07:58.399 --> 00:08:02.318 all pals because they work together 00:08:00.800 --> 00:08:06.720 >> they've been doing these exercises 00:08:02.319 --> 00:08:08.000 together. So they came here and and it's 00:08:06.720 --> 00:08:10.319 >> came here to Pakistan. 00:08:08.000 --> 00:08:14.399 >> The Pakistan air force their bases from 00:08:10.319 --> 00:08:17.840 where their G10s were to G sorry J10s 00:08:14.399 --> 00:08:20.799 and the JF17 you know two aircrafts but 00:08:17.839 --> 00:08:23.598 I'm referring right now only to the J10s 00:08:20.800 --> 00:08:25.840 of their aircraft where even the air 00:08:23.598 --> 00:08:27.759 chief was there. So air chief was 00:08:25.839 --> 00:08:30.000 maintaining the targets, maintaining the 00:08:27.759 --> 00:08:34.399 flight, seeing it happens and the key 00:08:30.000 --> 00:08:37.360 job of ensuring that the PL15 00:08:34.399 --> 00:08:40.559 air-to-air missile because how it works 00:08:37.360 --> 00:08:44.000 is as I said the there is the AEC 00:08:40.559 --> 00:08:47.119 tracker aircraft takes the data sends it 00:08:44.000 --> 00:08:49.360 to J10. J10 has the SDR the 00:08:47.120 --> 00:08:51.679 softwaredefined radio. It checks the 00:08:49.360 --> 00:08:54.720 integrity with the passive radar which 00:08:51.679 --> 00:08:56.958 is on and then sends that to the and all 00:08:54.720 --> 00:08:59.759 happens in split second sends it to the 00:08:56.958 --> 00:09:02.479 mission controller mission computers of 00:08:59.759 --> 00:09:04.639 the pilot. So pilot sees all that okay 00:09:02.480 --> 00:09:08.159 this is the data and then he presses the 00:09:04.639 --> 00:09:10.000 button and the PL15 goes and it goes 00:09:08.159 --> 00:09:12.159 bang to the target and that is how it 00:09:10.000 --> 00:09:15.039 is. That's what they have, the engineers 00:09:12.159 --> 00:09:15.519 have described it on this CCTV channel, 00:09:15.039 --> 00:09:17.838 >> right? 00:09:15.519 --> 00:09:21.519 >> As that is the Chinese official channel 00:09:17.839 --> 00:09:23.040 as the outstanding results they obtained 00:09:21.519 --> 00:09:26.240 in air-to-air combat. 00:09:23.039 --> 00:09:29.199 >> Now let me add something more. 00:09:26.240 --> 00:09:32.879 See, we have to face reality and the 00:09:29.200 --> 00:09:35.519 reality is that Indian side did not give 00:09:32.879 --> 00:09:37.919 their uh explanation of what happened on 00:09:35.519 --> 00:09:40.720 the night of 6th 7th May when the air 00:09:37.919 --> 00:09:42.719 battle happened. Now they have gone the 00:09:40.720 --> 00:09:45.040 other side and they have gone and told 00:09:42.720 --> 00:09:48.160 the international media that we were 00:09:45.039 --> 00:09:50.559 basically focusing on the Rafals 00:09:48.159 --> 00:09:52.559 and they have claimed that four Rafals 00:09:50.559 --> 00:09:54.958 were brought down. 00:09:52.559 --> 00:09:56.319 >> Officially they haven't they haven't 00:09:54.958 --> 00:09:58.159 officially claimed that have they? 00:09:56.320 --> 00:10:00.640 >> No officially they in fact their prime 00:09:58.159 --> 00:10:02.319 minister he has said at the podium of 00:10:00.639 --> 00:10:04.799 the United Nations that we brought down 00:10:02.320 --> 00:10:07.278 seven aircraft of the Indian side. 00:10:04.799 --> 00:10:10.240 >> But did he say for Rafale? No for Rafal 00:10:07.278 --> 00:10:12.879 was said by the official who is 00:10:10.240 --> 00:10:15.278 leftenant general kid he's a well-known 00:10:12.879 --> 00:10:17.600 man he gave out even the numbers of the 00:10:15.278 --> 00:10:19.039 aircraft so that is not the point this 00:10:17.600 --> 00:10:21.759 is not what we are discussing 00:10:19.039 --> 00:10:25.039 >> so just a minute so that means that even 00:10:21.759 --> 00:10:26.879 though we will not confirm anything the 00:10:25.039 --> 00:10:27.679 world thinks that some information has 00:10:26.879 --> 00:10:29.838 been given 00:10:27.679 --> 00:10:32.159 >> so as far as the world is concerned for 00:10:29.839 --> 00:10:35.360 the first time it has happened that the 00:10:32.159 --> 00:10:39.199 US Congress report that came out in 00:10:35.360 --> 00:10:41.839 November 2025. It's a voluminous thing. 00:10:39.200 --> 00:10:43.200 It clearly says that in the 4-day clash 00:10:41.839 --> 00:10:45.680 that happened between India and 00:10:43.200 --> 00:10:48.160 Pakistan, the Pakistan side did better 00:10:45.679 --> 00:10:51.120 than the Indian side. This is officially 00:10:48.159 --> 00:10:53.120 there in the US Congress report. Period. 00:10:51.120 --> 00:10:54.240 >> But we are saying that we destroyed the 00:10:53.120 --> 00:10:55.919 Pakistani air force 00:10:54.240 --> 00:10:58.879 >> here. No, not we are not saying the air 00:10:55.919 --> 00:11:00.719 force. Well, chief actually chief has 00:10:58.879 --> 00:11:04.078 said again that's an interesting point. 00:11:00.720 --> 00:11:07.839 Let's understand that also. After five 00:11:04.078 --> 00:11:10.319 months in August of 2025, 00:11:07.839 --> 00:11:12.399 five months have lapsed. Then the air 00:11:10.320 --> 00:11:14.959 force chief in Bangalore when he was 00:11:12.399 --> 00:11:18.240 giving a lecture at the end of the 00:11:14.958 --> 00:11:20.399 lecture more like a afterthought 00:11:18.240 --> 00:11:23.200 he said that we have downed five 00:11:20.399 --> 00:11:25.679 fighters of the Pakistan air force and 00:11:23.200 --> 00:11:28.800 then he said one fighter we took at 300 00:11:25.679 --> 00:11:31.919 kilometers with a S400. 00:11:28.799 --> 00:11:34.479 Now I have spoken to the Russian people 00:11:31.919 --> 00:11:37.039 who are actually involved in S400 who 00:11:34.480 --> 00:11:40.000 understand S400 and they very 00:11:37.039 --> 00:11:43.439 categorically told me that yes the way 00:11:40.000 --> 00:11:45.919 it works is that it has a range and we 00:11:43.440 --> 00:11:48.800 have the missiles we have got a missile 00:11:45.919 --> 00:11:52.078 from the from this Alma the people who 00:11:48.799 --> 00:11:55.359 make the S400 the longest range missile 00:11:52.078 --> 00:11:58.479 is 400 kilometers and you know the cost 00:11:55.360 --> 00:12:02.800 of the missile it's $5 million 00:11:58.480 --> 00:12:05.440 one missile. So but that besides so 00:12:02.799 --> 00:12:07.759 let's say we fired that this guy told me 00:12:05.440 --> 00:12:10.000 very clearly that yes on the radar you 00:12:07.759 --> 00:12:12.240 see a blip that means the enemy aircraft 00:12:10.000 --> 00:12:14.240 is there or some hostile thing is there 00:12:12.240 --> 00:12:17.120 and you fire a missile there are three 00:12:14.240 --> 00:12:19.039 categories of missile 150 range 250 00:12:17.120 --> 00:12:21.278 range and then 400 range. So you decide 00:12:19.039 --> 00:12:23.519 what you want to fire we are saying that 00:12:21.278 --> 00:12:27.120 we fired at 300 so that means we use the 00:12:23.519 --> 00:12:29.200 400 the highest missile range. So you 00:12:27.120 --> 00:12:31.679 fire that but he told me categorically 00:12:29.200 --> 00:12:32.879 there is no confirmation 00:12:31.679 --> 00:12:36.239 >> confirmation the target. 00:12:32.879 --> 00:12:38.480 >> So the point to make here is that 00:12:36.240 --> 00:12:42.159 airto-air battles 00:12:38.480 --> 00:12:44.320 >> see when you use S400 then it is from 00:12:42.159 --> 00:12:46.799 ground to air 00:12:44.320 --> 00:12:49.680 >> airtoair battle between India and 00:12:46.799 --> 00:12:52.240 Pakistan will be absolutely critical in 00:12:49.679 --> 00:12:54.239 the next war that happens. This is the 00:12:52.240 --> 00:12:57.039 important thing and this is where coming 00:12:54.240 --> 00:13:00.320 back to where we started. The Chinese 00:12:57.039 --> 00:13:02.159 have not only given them the aircraft, 00:13:00.320 --> 00:13:04.639 Chinese have not only done the training 00:13:02.159 --> 00:13:06.719 with them. Chinese have not only helped 00:13:04.639 --> 00:13:08.799 them with one of the important 00:13:06.720 --> 00:13:12.079 institutions which was created under the 00:13:08.799 --> 00:13:13.919 Pakistan Air Force called Sent AIC, 00:13:12.078 --> 00:13:15.599 Center for Artificial Intelligence and 00:13:13.919 --> 00:13:17.360 Computing, which is about putting 00:13:15.600 --> 00:13:20.079 artificial intelligence in electronic 00:13:17.360 --> 00:13:22.800 warfare which is jamming. Now same thing 00:13:20.078 --> 00:13:23.519 they use it in the SDR what I was 00:13:22.799 --> 00:13:25.919 talking about. 00:13:23.519 --> 00:13:28.399 >> Yeah. So the point is they are 00:13:25.919 --> 00:13:32.078 physically present there because for 00:13:28.399 --> 00:13:35.679 them here is another point for them it 00:13:32.078 --> 00:13:37.599 was a validation of their what they had 00:13:35.679 --> 00:13:39.919 made and with that validation 00:13:37.600 --> 00:13:42.959 >> for the Pakistanis for the Chinese 00:13:39.919 --> 00:13:45.679 >> it's a validation that the J10 has 00:13:42.958 --> 00:13:48.559 performed successfully PL15 has 00:13:45.679 --> 00:13:51.439 performed successfully and therefore it 00:13:48.559 --> 00:13:54.159 is logical to conclude that now they 00:13:51.440 --> 00:13:56.560 will give that top-of-the-line equipment 00:13:54.159 --> 00:13:58.799 to Pakistan having learned the lessons 00:13:56.559 --> 00:14:01.359 of operation Sundur that Pakistan has 00:13:58.799 --> 00:14:02.399 learned and they will also be there with 00:14:01.360 --> 00:14:06.079 all the systems 00:14:02.399 --> 00:14:09.839 >> but Mr. Modi is saying that he has put 00:14:06.078 --> 00:14:12.638 down a new normal and what I would like 00:14:09.839 --> 00:14:13.920 to discuss with you is the consequences 00:14:12.639 --> 00:14:16.799 of this new normal. 00:14:13.919 --> 00:14:18.240 >> So you see uh this is actually a thing 00:14:16.799 --> 00:14:20.240 which should have been thought more 00:14:18.240 --> 00:14:22.480 deeply and I'll tell you why. First 00:14:20.240 --> 00:14:24.480 thing is that Prime Minister Modi, he 00:14:22.480 --> 00:14:25.360 has not ended operation Synindur. He has 00:14:24.480 --> 00:14:25.839 put it on pause. 00:14:25.360 --> 00:14:28.720 >> That's right. 00:14:25.839 --> 00:14:31.199 >> That means any side can lift the pause. 00:14:28.720 --> 00:14:33.839 >> I would rather say that he has kept it 00:14:31.198 --> 00:14:34.159 openended rather than put it on pause. 00:14:33.839 --> 00:14:36.000 That's right. 00:14:34.159 --> 00:14:37.120 >> In other words, it can be activated at a 00:14:36.000 --> 00:14:39.198 second's notice. 00:14:37.120 --> 00:14:40.560 >> That is from India's side. Our side. 00:14:39.198 --> 00:14:41.278 >> No, no, no. Even their side. I'll just 00:14:40.559 --> 00:14:44.000 come to that. 00:14:41.278 --> 00:14:46.320 >> No, but what Mr. Modi says does not 00:14:44.000 --> 00:14:49.198 apply to the other side. Why should they 00:14:46.320 --> 00:14:51.120 stick by that? We are keeping operation 00:14:49.198 --> 00:14:52.240 Sindur open. 00:14:51.120 --> 00:14:54.240 >> But they are impacted. 00:14:52.240 --> 00:14:54.879 >> They have not said anything to that. 00:14:54.240 --> 00:14:56.320 >> No, no, no. 00:14:54.879 --> 00:14:58.879 >> They will react only. No, 00:14:56.320 --> 00:15:00.959 >> no, no, no. See how it will work is that 00:14:58.879 --> 00:15:03.759 Prime Minister Modi has said that this 00:15:00.958 --> 00:15:05.278 is a pause and then as he pointed out a 00:15:03.759 --> 00:15:07.519 new normal has been created. And what is 00:15:05.278 --> 00:15:10.320 the new normal? The new normal is that 00:15:07.519 --> 00:15:11.278 any act of terror will be considered an 00:15:10.320 --> 00:15:11.839 act of war. 00:15:11.278 --> 00:15:14.320 >> Right? 00:15:11.839 --> 00:15:16.720 >> Number one. Number two, India will not 00:15:14.320 --> 00:15:18.399 make a distinction between terrorist and 00:15:16.720 --> 00:15:20.800 their sponsors. 00:15:18.399 --> 00:15:23.278 >> In other words, all this counterterror 00:15:20.799 --> 00:15:25.838 operations that we have done in the past 00:15:23.278 --> 00:15:27.759 which is the 2019 Balakort air force was 00:15:25.839 --> 00:15:28.959 used for counterterror operations, 00:15:27.759 --> 00:15:31.838 Synindur which was used for 00:15:28.958 --> 00:15:34.239 counterterror targeting. Now it will be 00:15:31.839 --> 00:15:37.440 no distinction between the terrorist and 00:15:34.240 --> 00:15:39.519 the sponsors. And then he has said that 00:15:37.440 --> 00:15:41.760 we will not be deterred by the nuclear 00:15:39.519 --> 00:15:44.639 red lines of Pakistan and we'll be 00:15:41.759 --> 00:15:47.679 proactive. Now if you put all this 00:15:44.639 --> 00:15:51.759 together what he's saying is the word is 00:15:47.679 --> 00:15:54.799 proactive. Now even they accuse us they 00:15:51.759 --> 00:15:57.440 they say that we are doing terrorism on 00:15:54.799 --> 00:15:59.359 their territory. They say it openly in 00:15:57.440 --> 00:16:01.279 Baluchasthan they say we are doing this 00:15:59.360 --> 00:16:04.000 we are creating trouble for them. So 00:16:01.278 --> 00:16:06.799 they can also be proactive 00:16:04.000 --> 00:16:09.440 and then we are saying that now the next 00:16:06.799 --> 00:16:11.198 time it'll be a full-fledged war because 00:16:09.440 --> 00:16:12.720 if you're talking of the sponsors you 00:16:11.198 --> 00:16:14.639 are talking of Pakistan army you're 00:16:12.720 --> 00:16:16.240 talking of Pakistan military the game 00:16:14.639 --> 00:16:19.440 changes 00:16:16.240 --> 00:16:21.440 see and this is what the world has heard 00:16:19.440 --> 00:16:23.680 now when the game changes if you allow 00:16:21.440 --> 00:16:26.560 me how will the game change let's look 00:16:23.679 --> 00:16:28.719 at that how it'll change is that we saw 00:16:26.559 --> 00:16:31.439 in Sud 00:16:28.720 --> 00:16:33.839 both sides we fired missiles We fired 00:16:31.440 --> 00:16:35.199 drones. See, normally the all the wars 00:16:33.839 --> 00:16:38.320 that have happened between India and 00:16:35.198 --> 00:16:40.159 Pakistan, there has been a contact line. 00:16:38.320 --> 00:16:41.920 Our army here, their army there, the 00:16:40.159 --> 00:16:45.360 armies fought, then they took some land, 00:16:41.919 --> 00:16:47.679 went in, air force helped over. Because 00:16:45.360 --> 00:16:51.120 in this we saw that the missiles and the 00:16:47.679 --> 00:16:52.958 drones they did depth targeting. 00:16:51.120 --> 00:16:55.440 When you do deep targeting, that means 00:16:52.958 --> 00:16:57.919 the battlefield, the front, the rear, 00:16:55.440 --> 00:16:59.839 the laterals are becoming meaningless. 00:16:57.919 --> 00:17:02.399 >> Yeah. It's all a battlefield. It's all a 00:16:59.839 --> 00:17:04.400 battlefield and therefore what what it 00:17:02.399 --> 00:17:07.599 means is that the threshold of a 00:17:04.400 --> 00:17:09.439 conventional war it comes down 00:17:07.599 --> 00:17:12.480 >> and then what happens is if you look at 00:17:09.439 --> 00:17:14.880 the elongated geography of Pakistan and 00:17:12.480 --> 00:17:17.439 you see high-profile targets including 00:17:14.880 --> 00:17:20.480 the nuclear infrastructure 00:17:17.439 --> 00:17:22.240 within range of our missiles 00:17:20.480 --> 00:17:24.798 that means now they have to start 00:17:22.240 --> 00:17:26.880 thinking about the nuclear thing also 00:17:24.798 --> 00:17:29.918 that means the threshold of nuclear also 00:17:26.880 --> 00:17:31.520 has come down So therefore the 00:17:29.919 --> 00:17:34.640 corrective measure they have immediately 00:17:31.519 --> 00:17:38.319 taken. What they have done is first of 00:17:34.640 --> 00:17:40.400 all the army chief general aim 00:17:38.319 --> 00:17:41.678 >> field he became field marshal but that 00:17:40.400 --> 00:17:43.440 is not the point. 00:17:41.679 --> 00:17:45.280 >> The point is he got an additional 00:17:43.440 --> 00:17:47.840 appointment and the additional 00:17:45.279 --> 00:17:50.720 appointment he's he's now the chief of 00:17:47.839 --> 00:17:53.759 defense forces which means that he is 00:17:50.720 --> 00:17:55.519 number one of the three. So whatever 00:17:53.759 --> 00:17:58.240 discussion has to happen about war 00:17:55.519 --> 00:18:01.519 options contingencies before the war 00:17:58.240 --> 00:18:05.200 he'll take the decision of war and bang 00:18:01.519 --> 00:18:06.798 then not only that then nuclear arsenal 00:18:05.200 --> 00:18:09.360 which is what they call the strategic 00:18:06.798 --> 00:18:11.599 plans division it used to be in a 00:18:09.359 --> 00:18:14.319 structure where which was headed by the 00:18:11.599 --> 00:18:15.119 prime minister of Pakistan now that is 00:18:14.319 --> 00:18:18.879 over 00:18:15.119 --> 00:18:20.879 >> it's headed by field 00:18:18.880 --> 00:18:22.799 he has created a new organization put 00:18:20.880 --> 00:18:25.520 the strategic plans division 00:18:22.798 --> 00:18:27.679 So the point I'm making is that in terms 00:18:25.519 --> 00:18:29.759 of decision making after India has 00:18:27.679 --> 00:18:31.440 declared that if there is another major 00:18:29.759 --> 00:18:33.038 terrorist attack it to be a full-scale 00:18:31.440 --> 00:18:34.880 war they are ready for war and the 00:18:33.038 --> 00:18:36.798 Chinese are there to help them with the 00:18:34.880 --> 00:18:39.919 state-of-art equipment and let me add 00:18:36.798 --> 00:18:44.720 one more point do you think this will 00:18:39.919 --> 00:18:47.360 figure this new uh concatenation of 00:18:44.720 --> 00:18:50.640 events will figure in Trump's 00:18:47.359 --> 00:18:53.759 discussions with she next week in 00:18:50.640 --> 00:18:55.280 Beijing? No, because as far as they are 00:18:53.759 --> 00:18:56.960 concerned, they have far too many things 00:18:55.279 --> 00:18:58.160 to sort out the 00:18:56.960 --> 00:19:00.480 >> meaning the Americans. 00:18:58.160 --> 00:19:03.440 >> No. Uh he's talking of President Trump 00:19:00.480 --> 00:19:05.919 is visiting China as of now on the 14th 00:19:03.440 --> 00:19:08.160 of May just 2 three days away and he'll 00:19:05.919 --> 00:19:10.320 be meeting President Xiing there. 00:19:08.160 --> 00:19:12.480 >> Now the key thing is that the Chinese 00:19:10.319 --> 00:19:14.798 first of all what they always tell the 00:19:12.480 --> 00:19:16.960 Americans that please understand our red 00:19:14.798 --> 00:19:19.119 line that is Taiwan. 00:19:16.960 --> 00:19:20.720 So that is one thing. Then there are 00:19:19.119 --> 00:19:22.479 issues of trade, there are issues of 00:19:20.720 --> 00:19:24.720 investments, there are issues of rare 00:19:22.480 --> 00:19:26.880 earth. So even there is issues of 00:19:24.720 --> 00:19:28.480 artificial intelligence. So all these 00:19:26.880 --> 00:19:30.640 things in fact they've had a couple of 00:19:28.480 --> 00:19:32.640 meetings and recently there was a 00:19:30.640 --> 00:19:35.679 delegation a Republican delegation had 00:19:32.640 --> 00:19:37.280 gone and visited China as as sort of a 00:19:35.679 --> 00:19:39.519 preparation to the visit of President 00:19:37.279 --> 00:19:41.038 Trump. They have gone there and they 00:19:39.519 --> 00:19:43.839 have had a discussion with their prime 00:19:41.038 --> 00:19:46.720 minister Nikqua and all these things are 00:19:43.839 --> 00:19:48.240 on the table. the war in West Asia, the 00:19:46.720 --> 00:19:51.279 war in Ukraine. I mean these are the 00:19:48.240 --> 00:19:53.519 issues as far as President Xi is 00:19:51.279 --> 00:19:56.079 concerned. He has made it very clear 00:19:53.519 --> 00:19:59.519 that you do anything with Pakistan, I 00:19:56.079 --> 00:20:02.960 stand with Pakistan physically. Now that 00:19:59.519 --> 00:20:05.359 is standing with Pakisting 00:20:02.960 --> 00:20:08.000 was key hardware, we have given 00:20:05.359 --> 00:20:11.038 hardware, we have given this, we have no 00:20:08.000 --> 00:20:13.440 you are not only see maintenance on the 00:20:11.038 --> 00:20:16.079 ground you are doing for them and you 00:20:13.440 --> 00:20:17.840 are basically preparing them for their 00:20:16.079 --> 00:20:20.480 operations. you being China 00:20:17.839 --> 00:20:23.119 >> China and you are assisting them in the 00:20:20.480 --> 00:20:24.000 operations that means you are part of 00:20:23.119 --> 00:20:24.719 them 00:20:24.000 --> 00:20:26.960 >> quite 00:20:24.720 --> 00:20:29.200 >> so as far as and then of course they'll 00:20:26.960 --> 00:20:31.519 be discussing West Asia the war in West 00:20:29.200 --> 00:20:32.880 Asia uh which you know is extremely 00:20:31.519 --> 00:20:36.000 important subject 00:20:32.880 --> 00:20:38.880 >> so where does that leave India 00:20:36.000 --> 00:20:41.038 >> see as far as India is concerned 00:20:38.880 --> 00:20:42.720 President Trump repeatedly says my 00:20:41.038 --> 00:20:43.038 favorite field marshal 00:20:42.720 --> 00:20:45.279 >> yes 00:20:43.038 --> 00:20:47.038 >> the profile of has gone up of field 00:20:45.279 --> 00:20:48.879 marshal as Munir and This is a very 00:20:47.038 --> 00:20:51.119 serious thing. I mean I have no issues 00:20:48.880 --> 00:20:53.200 with that. But if you see from the 00:20:51.119 --> 00:20:55.038 government of point of view, it's a very 00:20:53.200 --> 00:20:57.120 serious thing and this is not something 00:20:55.038 --> 00:20:57.519 which will go away in a hurry for two 00:20:57.119 --> 00:20:59.918 reasons. 00:20:57.519 --> 00:21:02.480 >> But is there not something contradictory 00:20:59.919 --> 00:21:05.520 about Trump insisting that India 00:21:02.480 --> 00:21:07.759 decrease its arms purchases from Russia, 00:21:05.519 --> 00:21:11.119 increase them with the US when the his 00:21:07.759 --> 00:21:14.400 favorite field marshall has 80% of his 00:21:11.119 --> 00:21:16.158 military stock coming in from China. So 00:21:14.400 --> 00:21:18.000 how does he reconcile these two? 00:21:16.159 --> 00:21:21.039 >> No, no, no. We have given him on a 00:21:18.000 --> 00:21:23.599 platter. You see on 13th of February 00:21:21.038 --> 00:21:25.519 2025 within days of the inauguration of 00:21:23.599 --> 00:21:26.158 President Trump, Prime Minister Modi was 00:21:25.519 --> 00:21:28.240 there. Yes. 00:21:26.159 --> 00:21:30.240 >> And we signed a joint statement. And the 00:21:28.240 --> 00:21:32.960 key thing in the joint statement is 00:21:30.240 --> 00:21:35.440 mission 500. What that means is our 00:21:32.960 --> 00:21:38.240 present bilateral trade stands at 139 00:21:35.440 --> 00:21:41.679 billion. By 2030 which is around the 00:21:38.240 --> 00:21:43.839 corner we'll make it five 500 bilateral 00:21:41.679 --> 00:21:45.840 trade 500 billion dollars 00:21:43.839 --> 00:21:47.038 >> that can only come through oil and 00:21:45.839 --> 00:21:49.038 military equipment. 00:21:47.038 --> 00:21:50.319 >> Exactly. And technology of course lot of 00:21:49.038 --> 00:21:53.359 technology is coming the fourth 00:21:50.319 --> 00:21:56.319 generation technologies. So basically we 00:21:53.359 --> 00:21:58.879 have mortgaged everything our trade 00:21:56.319 --> 00:22:01.599 entire thing to the Americans and the 00:21:58.880 --> 00:22:04.960 Americans on the other hand are now 00:22:01.599 --> 00:22:07.678 having making peace with China. So our 00:22:04.960 --> 00:22:09.440 strategic role which used to be there as 00:22:07.679 --> 00:22:11.280 long as the Biden administration was 00:22:09.440 --> 00:22:13.279 there starting from the Obama 00:22:11.279 --> 00:22:15.678 administration that we were supposed to 00:22:13.279 --> 00:22:17.519 provide be the military bullwark for 00:22:15.679 --> 00:22:20.640 America in the Indian Ocean region 00:22:17.519 --> 00:22:23.440 against China that is over 00:22:20.640 --> 00:22:25.919 >> on the other hand on the other hand 00:22:23.440 --> 00:22:28.159 President Trump has given a elevated 00:22:25.919 --> 00:22:30.640 role it's not President Trump alone the 00:22:28.159 --> 00:22:32.320 Russians the Chinese then the GCC 00:22:30.640 --> 00:22:34.960 countries six countries the other 00:22:32.319 --> 00:22:36.079 countries in the region Pakistan is a 00:22:34.960 --> 00:22:39.120 star. 00:22:36.079 --> 00:22:41.918 >> It is not a facilitator. It is not a it 00:22:39.119 --> 00:22:45.119 is not only a mediator. It will now 00:22:41.919 --> 00:22:47.038 provide security to the GCC countries 00:22:45.119 --> 00:22:49.519 and two countries. One it already gives 00:22:47.038 --> 00:22:52.480 to Saudi Arabia and Qatar is already in 00:22:49.519 --> 00:22:54.400 talks with them and except for UAE I see 00:22:52.480 --> 00:22:55.200 the others also falling in line over a 00:22:54.400 --> 00:22:57.038 period of time. 00:22:55.200 --> 00:22:57.679 >> But do they have the military capacity 00:22:57.038 --> 00:22:58.720 to do this? 00:22:57.679 --> 00:23:02.798 >> Of course they have. 00:22:58.720 --> 00:23:07.120 >> Okay. But so this tectonic shift in 00:23:02.798 --> 00:23:07.440 geopolitics is in favor of Pakistan 00:23:07.119 --> 00:23:09.599 >> again 00:23:07.440 --> 00:23:10.320 >> or has been taken advantage of by 00:23:09.599 --> 00:23:13.839 Pakistan. 00:23:10.319 --> 00:23:16.480 >> Again again again again you know uh 00:23:13.839 --> 00:23:19.759 I hope you don't mind. Of course not. We 00:23:16.480 --> 00:23:22.480 we now have to think of win-win. 00:23:19.759 --> 00:23:24.079 >> If Pakistan wins we have to see how we 00:23:22.480 --> 00:23:24.720 also win along with Pakistan. 00:23:24.079 --> 00:23:26.000 >> Ah that's 00:23:24.720 --> 00:23:28.240 >> this is the way I see things. 00:23:26.000 --> 00:23:29.279 >> Win win along with Pakistan. Absolutely. 00:23:28.240 --> 00:23:32.159 Not against Pakistan. 00:23:29.279 --> 00:23:36.079 >> No, no, no, no. See, the whole idea, the 00:23:32.159 --> 00:23:38.559 whole idea should be that in South Asia, 00:23:36.079 --> 00:23:40.879 how do we reduce our tensions with 00:23:38.558 --> 00:23:43.038 China? How do we reduce our tensions 00:23:40.880 --> 00:23:45.520 with Pakistan? We need to cut our 00:23:43.038 --> 00:23:48.240 budgets, we need to cut our troops. And 00:23:45.519 --> 00:23:51.759 we have to see anybody who has a cursory 00:23:48.240 --> 00:23:55.359 look of the map realizes that when you 00:23:51.759 --> 00:23:57.919 look at Eurasia, these three blobs, they 00:23:55.359 --> 00:24:00.399 become one. Central Asia, West Asia, 00:23:57.919 --> 00:24:02.159 South Asia and as far as Pakistan is 00:24:00.400 --> 00:24:05.280 concerned, it is there now in South 00:24:02.159 --> 00:24:07.760 Asia, it is there in West Asia and it is 00:24:05.279 --> 00:24:09.839 very much in Central Asia also. So the 00:24:07.759 --> 00:24:11.759 point I'm making is it is very good. The 00:24:09.839 --> 00:24:14.639 connectivity is there because it helps 00:24:11.759 --> 00:24:16.879 them. But we also should make take 00:24:14.640 --> 00:24:18.880 advantage of that and both the Chinese 00:24:16.880 --> 00:24:21.120 and the Pakistanis 00:24:18.880 --> 00:24:24.480 want to talk with India. So what you're 00:24:21.119 --> 00:24:28.158 saying is that in foreign policy it is 00:24:24.480 --> 00:24:31.519 imperative that we open engagement, open 00:24:28.159 --> 00:24:34.320 negotiations, open dialogue with both 00:24:31.519 --> 00:24:35.519 Pakistan and with China which we have 00:24:34.319 --> 00:24:37.200 been rejecting. 00:24:35.519 --> 00:24:40.240 >> Absolutely. Because this is the new 00:24:37.200 --> 00:24:43.840 world order the new world. Sorry please. 00:24:40.240 --> 00:24:46.319 >> But it is uh very muddled and confusing. 00:24:43.839 --> 00:24:47.839 There's Pakistan and China together 00:24:46.319 --> 00:24:51.759 militarily 00:24:47.839 --> 00:24:54.319 and we are supposed to buy 500 billion 00:24:51.759 --> 00:24:58.558 or whatever worth of equipment etc from 00:24:54.319 --> 00:25:01.678 the US. So it should be uh logically 00:24:58.558 --> 00:25:03.918 Pakistan and China, India and US but US 00:25:01.679 --> 00:25:06.320 is making friends with China. So we are 00:25:03.919 --> 00:25:06.559 just dumped by all sides. No, no, no, 00:25:06.319 --> 00:25:08.558 no, 00:25:06.558 --> 00:25:11.759 >> no, no, no, no. Because the new world 00:25:08.558 --> 00:25:14.720 order that we are talking about uh where 00:25:11.759 --> 00:25:17.038 this year we have the BRICS presidency 00:25:14.720 --> 00:25:20.720 and in the BRICS presidency the three 00:25:17.038 --> 00:25:22.000 key players are basically Russia, India 00:25:20.720 --> 00:25:25.679 and China RI IC. 00:25:22.000 --> 00:25:27.440 >> Yeah. Except that India under Mr. Modi 00:25:25.679 --> 00:25:30.720 does not even have the courage to 00:25:27.440 --> 00:25:32.480 convene a meeting a summit. It's not 00:25:30.720 --> 00:25:35.679 doing it. I I I you know what 00:25:32.480 --> 00:25:37.599 >> because the so many members of bricks in 00:25:35.679 --> 00:25:40.559 fact I think all members other than us 00:25:37.599 --> 00:25:43.359 the principal members have a view on 00:25:40.558 --> 00:25:45.200 Palestine have a view on Iran which we 00:25:43.359 --> 00:25:47.759 are not willing to affirm 00:25:45.200 --> 00:25:48.880 >> so basically we are caught in a bind 00:25:47.759 --> 00:25:50.000 because of various 00:25:48.880 --> 00:25:52.320 >> I think that's what she meant 00:25:50.000 --> 00:25:55.679 >> no I agree entirely with you but if we 00:25:52.319 --> 00:25:59.038 are to take advantage of geopolitics see 00:25:55.679 --> 00:26:02.798 when we say and the people say they say 00:25:59.038 --> 00:26:05.919 that India's big uh you know advantage 00:26:02.798 --> 00:26:08.639 is 1.4 4 billion people they actually 00:26:05.919 --> 00:26:10.640 become a liability if there is no peace 00:26:08.640 --> 00:26:13.278 if there is no education is if there is 00:26:10.640 --> 00:26:16.159 no development and for development you 00:26:13.278 --> 00:26:18.159 need peace and for peace if you see 00:26:16.159 --> 00:26:21.360 before prime minister Modi came to power 00:26:18.159 --> 00:26:23.520 in 2014 we were talking with Pakistan 00:26:21.359 --> 00:26:26.639 there are problems and I'm sure they can 00:26:23.519 --> 00:26:29.679 be ironed out today and with China we 00:26:26.640 --> 00:26:31.679 had see the border problem is there so 00:26:29.679 --> 00:26:34.080 we have to find a way out for the border 00:26:31.679 --> 00:26:36.320 problem and one way out is that if you 00:26:34.079 --> 00:26:38.639 make peace with Pakistan, Pakistan is 00:26:36.319 --> 00:26:41.519 willing to make peace and what are we 00:26:38.640 --> 00:26:45.120 saying to Pakistan? We will only talk on 00:26:41.519 --> 00:26:48.079 two issues on terror and on how to get 00:26:45.119 --> 00:26:51.119 back Pakistan occupied Kashmir. 00:26:48.079 --> 00:26:53.119 They are saying talk on Kashmir and 00:26:51.119 --> 00:26:55.439 let's talk on terror also because they 00:26:53.119 --> 00:26:57.839 also have a gr on. They have more than 00:26:55.440 --> 00:27:00.798 once said they'll talk on terror and on 00:26:57.839 --> 00:27:03.278 Kashmir under General Perves Busharav 00:27:00.798 --> 00:27:07.119 there was what he called the fourpoint 00:27:03.278 --> 00:27:09.759 formula. So it is possible for us to 00:27:07.119 --> 00:27:12.319 tackle even the most difficult questions 00:27:09.759 --> 00:27:15.679 but we can't tackle even the easiest one 00:27:12.319 --> 00:27:19.839 if we don't engage with them. Now 40 00:27:15.679 --> 00:27:23.440 years ago nearly Rajiv Gandhi set a 00:27:19.839 --> 00:27:27.359 grand example when within weeks of each 00:27:23.440 --> 00:27:29.519 other in the same month of December 1988 00:27:27.359 --> 00:27:32.399 he first went to China then went to 00:27:29.519 --> 00:27:34.798 Pakistan the first Indian prime minister 00:27:32.400 --> 00:27:36.798 to visit China in three decades and the 00:27:34.798 --> 00:27:40.240 first Indian prime minister to visit 00:27:36.798 --> 00:27:44.000 Pakistan in nearly four decades and 00:27:40.240 --> 00:27:46.319 something started. Now we seem to be 00:27:44.000 --> 00:27:48.000 completely stranded and we are just 00:27:46.319 --> 00:27:50.480 caught in our own cut coils. 00:27:48.000 --> 00:27:52.319 >> Now now can I just add one point what 00:27:50.480 --> 00:27:53.759 you said is perfectly I mean nobody can 00:27:52.319 --> 00:27:54.798 disagree with that. Just add 00:27:53.759 --> 00:27:55.839 >> except Mr. Modi. 00:27:54.798 --> 00:27:58.960 >> No no no 00:27:55.839 --> 00:28:01.119 >> except except to make a point that you 00:27:58.960 --> 00:28:02.960 see the world has changed today. When I 00:28:01.119 --> 00:28:05.199 say the world has changed it's a 00:28:02.960 --> 00:28:07.600 multipolar world. We you are talking of 00:28:05.200 --> 00:28:09.919 the uniolar world. Multipolar world with 00:28:07.599 --> 00:28:12.000 three great powers China, Russia and 00:28:09.919 --> 00:28:14.000 America. Three powers are there. There's 00:28:12.000 --> 00:28:15.599 not one power. And so the world has 00:28:14.000 --> 00:28:17.119 changed. There is a new world order that 00:28:15.599 --> 00:28:19.519 we are talking about. Not to go in the 00:28:17.119 --> 00:28:23.439 details of that. This is the opportunity 00:28:19.519 --> 00:28:26.240 for us to actually talk with Pakistan 00:28:23.440 --> 00:28:29.200 because it is win-win for us. Win-win in 00:28:26.240 --> 00:28:31.839 terms of peace. Win-win in terms of 00:28:29.200 --> 00:28:33.759 connectivity. Now, why are we always 00:28:31.839 --> 00:28:36.079 listening to Trump? He tells us, "All 00:28:33.759 --> 00:28:38.158 right, you can buy oil from Russia, not 00:28:36.079 --> 00:28:40.240 buy oil from Russia. You can trade with 00:28:38.159 --> 00:28:41.679 Iran, you can't trade with Iran. You 00:28:40.240 --> 00:28:44.079 can't go to Chabar port. We have 00:28:41.679 --> 00:28:46.720 invested in Chabar port. Now we want to 00:28:44.079 --> 00:28:48.720 have connectivity what we call the West 00:28:46.720 --> 00:28:52.558 Asia quad. And what is the West Asia 00:28:48.720 --> 00:28:57.679 chord? The West Asia chord is I2 U2. I2 00:28:52.558 --> 00:29:00.879 is India uh Israel and U2 is America and 00:28:57.679 --> 00:29:03.360 UAE. And this is a non-starter 00:29:00.880 --> 00:29:05.360 today in the war and the new framework 00:29:03.359 --> 00:29:09.278 that is coming up. You see what will 00:29:05.359 --> 00:29:12.479 happen is that in the next uh three or 00:29:09.278 --> 00:29:15.038 or maybe less a new regional framework 00:29:12.480 --> 00:29:17.919 will come in come in West Asia and this 00:29:15.038 --> 00:29:19.519 is the reason that recently it was in 00:29:17.919 --> 00:29:22.080 the news that the Iranian foreign 00:29:19.519 --> 00:29:23.599 minister he traveled to Russia and he 00:29:22.079 --> 00:29:26.158 traveled to China because in the 00:29:23.599 --> 00:29:28.158 multipolar world he has support of these 00:29:26.159 --> 00:29:30.399 two great powers and what did he talk 00:29:28.159 --> 00:29:32.080 there he was talking about the new 00:29:30.398 --> 00:29:35.199 regional framework 00:29:32.079 --> 00:29:35.599 >> I would call it the Asian resurgence. 00:29:35.200 --> 00:29:37.600 >> Yeah, 00:29:35.599 --> 00:29:40.959 >> this is the new Asia. 00:29:37.599 --> 00:29:43.759 >> So here Pakistan will have a big role 00:29:40.960 --> 00:29:45.840 and we have good relations with Iran. 00:29:43.759 --> 00:29:48.798 You know the reason why Iran today 00:29:45.839 --> 00:29:51.119 supports us, it is not really in my 00:29:48.798 --> 00:29:52.960 assessment the the government, it is the 00:29:51.119 --> 00:29:55.678 people of India. 00:29:52.960 --> 00:29:57.440 >> We have that centuries old 00:29:55.679 --> 00:29:59.840 >> relationship. Going back to 00:29:57.440 --> 00:30:03.360 >> so coming back to uh some you know point 00:29:59.839 --> 00:30:05.759 to make a point is that we need to have 00:30:03.359 --> 00:30:07.918 peace we need to have development we 00:30:05.759 --> 00:30:10.319 need to have connectivity win-win with 00:30:07.919 --> 00:30:12.080 Pakistan normalization of ties with 00:30:10.319 --> 00:30:16.079 China something that I keep saying 00:30:12.079 --> 00:30:18.158 >> om shanti shanti shanti 00:30:16.079 --> 00:30:20.720 this is the message of India 00:30:18.159 --> 00:30:25.360 civilization which seems which modern 00:30:20.720 --> 00:30:28.000 India 21st India 2026 India seems to 00:30:25.359 --> 00:30:28.959 have totally forgotten. 00:30:28.000 --> 00:30:30.079 >> Thank you very much. 00:30:28.960 --> 00:30:32.240 >> Thank you so much. 00:30:30.079 --> 00:30:35.240 >> Thank you Sudith. 00:30:32.240 --> 00:30:35.240 Namaskar.