1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:06,639 Namaskar. On the first anniversary of 2 00:00:03,120 --> 00:00:10,400 operation Sindur, in this episode of 3 00:00:06,639 --> 00:00:14,719 Manikibat Sunnit Kasad, we ask the 4 00:00:10,400 --> 00:00:17,760 unasked question. Did China 5 00:00:14,718 --> 00:00:21,839 operation Sindur? The context of this 6 00:00:17,760 --> 00:00:25,519 question is China's first official 7 00:00:21,839 --> 00:00:28,079 statement in its state-run TV channel 8 00:00:25,518 --> 00:00:32,079 where it has affirmed that in kinetic 9 00:00:28,079 --> 00:00:35,839 combat operation Sindur brought China 10 00:00:32,079 --> 00:00:38,719 decisively on Pakistan's side. To assist 11 00:00:35,840 --> 00:00:41,600 us in exploring this angle, we've 12 00:00:38,719 --> 00:00:44,480 requested our old friend Pravin Sony, 13 00:00:41,600 --> 00:00:47,840 editor of Force magazine, to explain to 14 00:00:44,479 --> 00:00:50,959 us the significance of China's official 15 00:00:47,840 --> 00:00:54,640 confirmation that Chinese made a 16 00:00:50,960 --> 00:00:58,878 Chinese-made fighter J10CE 17 00:00:54,640 --> 00:01:01,520 shot down at least one Rafal. Do you sir 18 00:00:58,878 --> 00:01:03,280 endorse this claim? 19 00:01:01,520 --> 00:01:04,719 uh it's much more than that and uh 20 00:01:03,280 --> 00:01:07,439 you've asked a very relevant question 21 00:01:04,719 --> 00:01:09,760 and this is a question that everybody 22 00:01:07,438 --> 00:01:13,118 needs to think very deep about and the 23 00:01:09,760 --> 00:01:15,600 question is that Changdu Aviation of 24 00:01:13,118 --> 00:01:19,359 China they are the people who have made 25 00:01:15,599 --> 00:01:22,399 this aircraft G10 and the engineers from 26 00:01:19,359 --> 00:01:24,319 the Changdu research center that means 27 00:01:22,400 --> 00:01:26,478 the people who understand the nuts and 28 00:01:24,319 --> 00:01:31,039 bolts who understand the software 29 00:01:26,478 --> 00:01:31,039 everything they were physically present 30 00:01:31,118 --> 00:01:32,799 Yes, with 31 00:01:31,759 --> 00:01:35,439 >> during the war. 32 00:01:32,799 --> 00:01:37,680 >> That's right. With the Pakistanis, the 33 00:01:35,438 --> 00:01:39,919 Pakistan air force, they were physically 34 00:01:37,680 --> 00:01:40,720 there and that changes the game 35 00:01:39,920 --> 00:01:42,879 entirely. 36 00:01:40,719 --> 00:01:44,719 >> But were they participating in the war? 37 00:01:42,879 --> 00:01:46,879 >> Yes, they were participating in the war 38 00:01:44,719 --> 00:01:49,039 and that is what I want to explain so 39 00:01:46,879 --> 00:01:52,239 that the viewers understand what we are 40 00:01:49,040 --> 00:01:54,880 up against. So they were participating 41 00:01:52,239 --> 00:01:57,599 in the war and whereas the Pakistan Air 42 00:01:54,879 --> 00:01:59,199 Force pilots, they were focusing on the 43 00:01:57,599 --> 00:02:01,199 flight. 44 00:01:59,200 --> 00:02:04,000 What these engineers on the ground were 45 00:02:01,200 --> 00:02:06,719 doing is they were focusing in is what 46 00:02:04,000 --> 00:02:08,479 is called networks. Network basically 47 00:02:06,718 --> 00:02:10,959 means I'll just come to that in a while 48 00:02:08,479 --> 00:02:13,360 to explain network is a very critical 49 00:02:10,959 --> 00:02:15,439 component of operations. 50 00:02:13,360 --> 00:02:18,640 >> So what they were doing there is two 51 00:02:15,439 --> 00:02:21,439 things. One what they did was before the 52 00:02:18,639 --> 00:02:23,359 flight took over they did the 53 00:02:21,439 --> 00:02:25,199 maintenance. Maintenance is very 54 00:02:23,360 --> 00:02:27,200 important because we understand the 55 00:02:25,199 --> 00:02:28,799 temperatures there they were touching 56 00:02:27,199 --> 00:02:31,439 50° centigrade 57 00:02:28,800 --> 00:02:32,959 >> had the Chinese engineer has said that 58 00:02:31,439 --> 00:02:35,598 they were sweating it out 59 00:02:32,959 --> 00:02:37,598 >> that's right so with those temperatures 60 00:02:35,598 --> 00:02:39,679 it was the job of the engineers and mind 61 00:02:37,598 --> 00:02:41,439 you let me repeat that these are the 62 00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:44,000 engineers from the Changu research 63 00:02:41,439 --> 00:02:46,079 center they are not Pakistanis 64 00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:48,000 >> so these were the people whose job was 65 00:02:46,080 --> 00:02:51,200 to before the flight takes off to 66 00:02:48,000 --> 00:02:52,318 maintain the integrity of the ISA radars 67 00:02:51,199 --> 00:02:54,399 of the J10 68 00:02:52,318 --> 00:02:56,560 and to maintain the integrity of the 69 00:02:54,400 --> 00:02:57,439 electronic warfare which is about 70 00:02:56,560 --> 00:02:59,439 jamming. 71 00:02:57,439 --> 00:03:02,318 >> So that is called the active 72 00:02:59,439 --> 00:03:04,400 electronically scanned array. 73 00:03:02,318 --> 00:03:06,479 >> That's right. That's the ISA radar. So 74 00:03:04,400 --> 00:03:08,080 that is one job they were doing and the 75 00:03:06,479 --> 00:03:10,158 other job of course you know before the 76 00:03:08,080 --> 00:03:12,480 flights takes off any problems 77 00:03:10,158 --> 00:03:14,959 mechanical problems or any software 78 00:03:12,479 --> 00:03:15,759 problems because these are those complex 79 00:03:14,959 --> 00:03:18,000 machines. 80 00:03:15,759 --> 00:03:19,120 >> The most important thing is to underline 81 00:03:18,000 --> 00:03:21,360 software problems. 82 00:03:19,120 --> 00:03:23,120 >> Absolutely. So this was the job before 83 00:03:21,360 --> 00:03:25,920 the flight took off which is a very 84 00:03:23,120 --> 00:03:28,158 critical job. Now once the flight took 85 00:03:25,919 --> 00:03:30,719 off we were told and this was the 86 00:03:28,158 --> 00:03:33,840 official briefing given by the Pakistan 87 00:03:30,719 --> 00:03:37,039 air force senior officer a vice marshal 88 00:03:33,840 --> 00:03:39,360 a man called orang Ahmed. He gave this 89 00:03:37,039 --> 00:03:41,919 briefing on the 8th of March morning to 90 00:03:39,360 --> 00:03:44,879 the international media where he spoke 91 00:03:41,919 --> 00:03:46,559 about a new concept which they had tried 92 00:03:44,878 --> 00:03:49,280 and they have done it successfully 93 00:03:46,560 --> 00:03:52,719 called multi-dommain operations. In very 94 00:03:49,280 --> 00:03:57,759 simple terms, what this is about is that 95 00:03:52,719 --> 00:03:59,598 the J10 did not open its ISA radar. It 96 00:03:57,759 --> 00:04:02,479 kept the radar shut. 97 00:03:59,598 --> 00:04:04,560 >> Because radar can do two things. It is a 98 00:04:02,479 --> 00:04:07,039 active radar also. That means it sends 99 00:04:04,560 --> 00:04:10,000 the beams to the fighter of the Indian 100 00:04:07,039 --> 00:04:13,120 side and the beams they bounce back but 101 00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:15,598 Indian fighter will get to know that 102 00:04:13,120 --> 00:04:16,319 enemy uh aircraft is here. So they kept 103 00:04:15,598 --> 00:04:17,039 that off. 104 00:04:16,319 --> 00:04:20,000 >> I see. 105 00:04:17,040 --> 00:04:22,079 >> So what they had was a another radar 106 00:04:20,000 --> 00:04:24,639 which is a passive radar which is called 107 00:04:22,079 --> 00:04:27,040 the infrared tracking system. But I'll 108 00:04:24,639 --> 00:04:29,120 just come to the point what it is about 109 00:04:27,040 --> 00:04:31,680 that is about heat. That means when the 110 00:04:29,120 --> 00:04:33,680 enemy aircraft is there, it is able to 111 00:04:31,680 --> 00:04:36,959 detect the heat and say all right the 112 00:04:33,680 --> 00:04:38,800 enemy aircraft is there. But when you 113 00:04:36,959 --> 00:04:41,599 have your radar off, who gives you the 114 00:04:38,800 --> 00:04:44,800 data then? That is the problem. So the 115 00:04:41,600 --> 00:04:47,280 data was coming from another aircraft 116 00:04:44,800 --> 00:04:49,600 which is the AEW which is the airborne 117 00:04:47,279 --> 00:04:52,638 electronic airborne early warning and 118 00:04:49,600 --> 00:04:55,600 control system. Now how it works is this 119 00:04:52,639 --> 00:04:57,600 aircraft which had the radar rod is only 120 00:04:55,600 --> 00:05:00,960 for tracking the targets and it is way 121 00:04:57,600 --> 00:05:02,960 way way behind. So it gets the target 122 00:05:00,959 --> 00:05:06,319 and after getting the target it has to 123 00:05:02,959 --> 00:05:09,038 send that target data to the J10 pilot 124 00:05:06,319 --> 00:05:11,839 and the J10 pilot does not have his 125 00:05:09,038 --> 00:05:16,079 radar on but it has a very important 126 00:05:11,839 --> 00:05:19,119 thing in the J10 what is called the SDR. 127 00:05:16,079 --> 00:05:20,800 SDR is a softwaredefined radio and this 128 00:05:19,120 --> 00:05:23,038 is where the engineers come in the 129 00:05:20,800 --> 00:05:26,319 Chinese engineers. This is like the 130 00:05:23,038 --> 00:05:31,839 brain of the aircraft and what it has in 131 00:05:26,319 --> 00:05:33,680 it is it has a playlist of you know uh 132 00:05:31,839 --> 00:05:35,038 various frequencies which can be changed 133 00:05:33,680 --> 00:05:35,439 in split second. 134 00:05:35,038 --> 00:05:37,279 >> Mhm. 135 00:05:35,439 --> 00:05:39,600 >> Hundreds and hundreds of frequencies are 136 00:05:37,279 --> 00:05:41,839 there and you have to maintain all that 137 00:05:39,600 --> 00:05:44,639 and this is what is plugged in by those 138 00:05:41,839 --> 00:05:47,359 engineers the ground engineers here. So 139 00:05:44,639 --> 00:05:50,560 when you get that data, what the SDR 140 00:05:47,360 --> 00:05:52,879 does is that it sees the data. It first 141 00:05:50,560 --> 00:05:56,000 synchronizes, it checks the data with 142 00:05:52,879 --> 00:05:56,719 what I said the infrared passive radar. 143 00:05:56,000 --> 00:05:58,720 >> Oh, I see. 144 00:05:56,720 --> 00:06:01,039 >> And says, "All right, this is fine." And 145 00:05:58,720 --> 00:06:03,039 then that data is sent to the mission 146 00:06:01,038 --> 00:06:04,719 computer where the pilot is sitting with 147 00:06:03,038 --> 00:06:05,360 all the controls in front of him 148 00:06:04,720 --> 00:06:08,639 >> in the plane. 149 00:06:05,360 --> 00:06:11,360 >> In the plane, SDR is in the plane. So to 150 00:06:08,639 --> 00:06:13,840 get that data from there and to ensure 151 00:06:11,360 --> 00:06:16,720 the integrity of the data that there is 152 00:06:13,839 --> 00:06:19,119 no jamming attack by the Indian side all 153 00:06:16,720 --> 00:06:19,919 this is the job of the engineers on the 154 00:06:19,120 --> 00:06:22,319 ground 155 00:06:19,918 --> 00:06:23,918 >> who put the SDR there 156 00:06:22,319 --> 00:06:25,039 >> and the Chinese are sitting there 157 00:06:23,918 --> 00:06:27,918 >> it's right there 158 00:06:25,038 --> 00:06:30,000 >> that is it man that is my question the 159 00:06:27,918 --> 00:06:32,478 Chinese are sitting there they did not 160 00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:35,918 suddenly drop from the sky and sit there 161 00:06:32,478 --> 00:06:37,758 with the Pakistani engineers or defense 162 00:06:35,918 --> 00:06:41,279 personnel so under what arrange 163 00:06:37,759 --> 00:06:43,120 arrangement was this done and how was it 164 00:06:41,279 --> 00:06:44,799 time that they were there at that time. 165 00:06:43,120 --> 00:06:47,360 Of course, we had given them warning. 166 00:06:44,800 --> 00:06:49,840 There was a big gap after the Pelgam uh 167 00:06:47,360 --> 00:06:52,560 terror strike and the beginning of our 168 00:06:49,839 --> 00:06:54,560 attack under operation Synindur. So they 169 00:06:52,560 --> 00:06:56,240 had enough time to call the Chinese but 170 00:06:54,560 --> 00:06:58,160 they can't suddenly pick up the phone 171 00:06:56,240 --> 00:06:59,680 and say you know the India is going to 172 00:06:58,160 --> 00:07:01,520 attack us you come. So under what 173 00:06:59,680 --> 00:07:03,360 arrangement were they there? What 174 00:07:01,519 --> 00:07:04,879 training was given to the Pakistani 175 00:07:03,360 --> 00:07:05,680 counterpart? You know you've asked an 176 00:07:04,879 --> 00:07:08,959 excellent question 177 00:07:05,680 --> 00:07:11,680 >> and one more question to that and did we 178 00:07:08,959 --> 00:07:13,439 know or because our air atache was not 179 00:07:11,680 --> 00:07:14,720 there did we not know 180 00:07:13,439 --> 00:07:17,038 >> you know you've asked an excellent 181 00:07:14,720 --> 00:07:20,639 question so the story goes back to 182 00:07:17,038 --> 00:07:23,279 actually 5th August 2019 183 00:07:20,639 --> 00:07:25,840 >> oh that's a good seven years almost 184 00:07:23,279 --> 00:07:26,559 that's also the date on which Kashmir's 185 00:07:25,839 --> 00:07:27,439 special state 186 00:07:26,560 --> 00:07:28,478 >> I'm talking of that 187 00:07:27,439 --> 00:07:31,038 >> I see I see 188 00:07:28,478 --> 00:07:34,000 >> so the significance is what he has said 189 00:07:31,038 --> 00:07:35,839 and after that all the leaders of chi 190 00:07:34,000 --> 00:07:38,560 Chinese leaders have publicly been 191 00:07:35,839 --> 00:07:40,799 saying that we support Pakistan's 192 00:07:38,560 --> 00:07:43,680 sovereignity and territorial integrity 193 00:07:40,800 --> 00:07:45,840 and how you support that is by training 194 00:07:43,680 --> 00:07:48,400 the two air forces had been doing 195 00:07:45,839 --> 00:07:50,799 complex advanced training where all 196 00:07:48,399 --> 00:07:53,279 these things were done and after as you 197 00:07:50,800 --> 00:07:56,400 rightly pointed out the pelgam attack 198 00:07:53,279 --> 00:07:58,399 happened on 22nd of April it is after 199 00:07:56,399 --> 00:08:00,799 that the all the engineers and they are 200 00:07:58,399 --> 00:08:02,318 all pals because they work together 201 00:08:00,800 --> 00:08:06,720 >> they've been doing these exercises 202 00:08:02,319 --> 00:08:08,000 together. So they came here and and it's 203 00:08:06,720 --> 00:08:10,319 >> came here to Pakistan. 204 00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:14,399 >> The Pakistan air force their bases from 205 00:08:10,319 --> 00:08:17,840 where their G10s were to G sorry J10s 206 00:08:14,399 --> 00:08:20,799 and the JF17 you know two aircrafts but 207 00:08:17,839 --> 00:08:23,598 I'm referring right now only to the J10s 208 00:08:20,800 --> 00:08:25,840 of their aircraft where even the air 209 00:08:23,598 --> 00:08:27,759 chief was there. So air chief was 210 00:08:25,839 --> 00:08:30,000 maintaining the targets, maintaining the 211 00:08:27,759 --> 00:08:34,399 flight, seeing it happens and the key 212 00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:37,360 job of ensuring that the PL15 213 00:08:34,399 --> 00:08:40,559 air-to-air missile because how it works 214 00:08:37,360 --> 00:08:44,000 is as I said the there is the AEC 215 00:08:40,559 --> 00:08:47,119 tracker aircraft takes the data sends it 216 00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:49,360 to J10. J10 has the SDR the 217 00:08:47,120 --> 00:08:51,679 softwaredefined radio. It checks the 218 00:08:49,360 --> 00:08:54,720 integrity with the passive radar which 219 00:08:51,679 --> 00:08:56,958 is on and then sends that to the and all 220 00:08:54,720 --> 00:08:59,759 happens in split second sends it to the 221 00:08:56,958 --> 00:09:02,479 mission controller mission computers of 222 00:08:59,759 --> 00:09:04,639 the pilot. So pilot sees all that okay 223 00:09:02,480 --> 00:09:08,159 this is the data and then he presses the 224 00:09:04,639 --> 00:09:10,000 button and the PL15 goes and it goes 225 00:09:08,159 --> 00:09:12,159 bang to the target and that is how it 226 00:09:10,000 --> 00:09:15,039 is. That's what they have, the engineers 227 00:09:12,159 --> 00:09:15,519 have described it on this CCTV channel, 228 00:09:15,039 --> 00:09:17,838 >> right? 229 00:09:15,519 --> 00:09:21,519 >> As that is the Chinese official channel 230 00:09:17,839 --> 00:09:23,040 as the outstanding results they obtained 231 00:09:21,519 --> 00:09:26,240 in air-to-air combat. 232 00:09:23,039 --> 00:09:29,199 >> Now let me add something more. 233 00:09:26,240 --> 00:09:32,879 See, we have to face reality and the 234 00:09:29,200 --> 00:09:35,519 reality is that Indian side did not give 235 00:09:32,879 --> 00:09:37,919 their uh explanation of what happened on 236 00:09:35,519 --> 00:09:40,720 the night of 6th 7th May when the air 237 00:09:37,919 --> 00:09:42,719 battle happened. Now they have gone the 238 00:09:40,720 --> 00:09:45,040 other side and they have gone and told 239 00:09:42,720 --> 00:09:48,160 the international media that we were 240 00:09:45,039 --> 00:09:50,559 basically focusing on the Rafals 241 00:09:48,159 --> 00:09:52,559 and they have claimed that four Rafals 242 00:09:50,559 --> 00:09:54,958 were brought down. 243 00:09:52,559 --> 00:09:56,319 >> Officially they haven't they haven't 244 00:09:54,958 --> 00:09:58,159 officially claimed that have they? 245 00:09:56,320 --> 00:10:00,640 >> No officially they in fact their prime 246 00:09:58,159 --> 00:10:02,319 minister he has said at the podium of 247 00:10:00,639 --> 00:10:04,799 the United Nations that we brought down 248 00:10:02,320 --> 00:10:07,278 seven aircraft of the Indian side. 249 00:10:04,799 --> 00:10:10,240 >> But did he say for Rafale? No for Rafal 250 00:10:07,278 --> 00:10:12,879 was said by the official who is 251 00:10:10,240 --> 00:10:15,278 leftenant general kid he's a well-known 252 00:10:12,879 --> 00:10:17,600 man he gave out even the numbers of the 253 00:10:15,278 --> 00:10:19,039 aircraft so that is not the point this 254 00:10:17,600 --> 00:10:21,759 is not what we are discussing 255 00:10:19,039 --> 00:10:25,039 >> so just a minute so that means that even 256 00:10:21,759 --> 00:10:26,879 though we will not confirm anything the 257 00:10:25,039 --> 00:10:27,679 world thinks that some information has 258 00:10:26,879 --> 00:10:29,838 been given 259 00:10:27,679 --> 00:10:32,159 >> so as far as the world is concerned for 260 00:10:29,839 --> 00:10:35,360 the first time it has happened that the 261 00:10:32,159 --> 00:10:39,199 US Congress report that came out in 262 00:10:35,360 --> 00:10:41,839 November 2025. It's a voluminous thing. 263 00:10:39,200 --> 00:10:43,200 It clearly says that in the 4-day clash 264 00:10:41,839 --> 00:10:45,680 that happened between India and 265 00:10:43,200 --> 00:10:48,160 Pakistan, the Pakistan side did better 266 00:10:45,679 --> 00:10:51,120 than the Indian side. This is officially 267 00:10:48,159 --> 00:10:53,120 there in the US Congress report. Period. 268 00:10:51,120 --> 00:10:54,240 >> But we are saying that we destroyed the 269 00:10:53,120 --> 00:10:55,919 Pakistani air force 270 00:10:54,240 --> 00:10:58,879 >> here. No, not we are not saying the air 271 00:10:55,919 --> 00:11:00,719 force. Well, chief actually chief has 272 00:10:58,879 --> 00:11:04,078 said again that's an interesting point. 273 00:11:00,720 --> 00:11:07,839 Let's understand that also. After five 274 00:11:04,078 --> 00:11:10,319 months in August of 2025, 275 00:11:07,839 --> 00:11:12,399 five months have lapsed. Then the air 276 00:11:10,320 --> 00:11:14,959 force chief in Bangalore when he was 277 00:11:12,399 --> 00:11:18,240 giving a lecture at the end of the 278 00:11:14,958 --> 00:11:20,399 lecture more like a afterthought 279 00:11:18,240 --> 00:11:23,200 he said that we have downed five 280 00:11:20,399 --> 00:11:25,679 fighters of the Pakistan air force and 281 00:11:23,200 --> 00:11:28,800 then he said one fighter we took at 300 282 00:11:25,679 --> 00:11:31,919 kilometers with a S400. 283 00:11:28,799 --> 00:11:34,479 Now I have spoken to the Russian people 284 00:11:31,919 --> 00:11:37,039 who are actually involved in S400 who 285 00:11:34,480 --> 00:11:40,000 understand S400 and they very 286 00:11:37,039 --> 00:11:43,439 categorically told me that yes the way 287 00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:45,919 it works is that it has a range and we 288 00:11:43,440 --> 00:11:48,800 have the missiles we have got a missile 289 00:11:45,919 --> 00:11:52,078 from the from this Alma the people who 290 00:11:48,799 --> 00:11:55,359 make the S400 the longest range missile 291 00:11:52,078 --> 00:11:58,479 is 400 kilometers and you know the cost 292 00:11:55,360 --> 00:12:02,800 of the missile it's $5 million 293 00:11:58,480 --> 00:12:05,440 one missile. So but that besides so 294 00:12:02,799 --> 00:12:07,759 let's say we fired that this guy told me 295 00:12:05,440 --> 00:12:10,000 very clearly that yes on the radar you 296 00:12:07,759 --> 00:12:12,240 see a blip that means the enemy aircraft 297 00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:14,240 is there or some hostile thing is there 298 00:12:12,240 --> 00:12:17,120 and you fire a missile there are three 299 00:12:14,240 --> 00:12:19,039 categories of missile 150 range 250 300 00:12:17,120 --> 00:12:21,278 range and then 400 range. So you decide 301 00:12:19,039 --> 00:12:23,519 what you want to fire we are saying that 302 00:12:21,278 --> 00:12:27,120 we fired at 300 so that means we use the 303 00:12:23,519 --> 00:12:29,200 400 the highest missile range. So you 304 00:12:27,120 --> 00:12:31,679 fire that but he told me categorically 305 00:12:29,200 --> 00:12:32,879 there is no confirmation 306 00:12:31,679 --> 00:12:36,239 >> confirmation the target. 307 00:12:32,879 --> 00:12:38,480 >> So the point to make here is that 308 00:12:36,240 --> 00:12:42,159 airto-air battles 309 00:12:38,480 --> 00:12:44,320 >> see when you use S400 then it is from 310 00:12:42,159 --> 00:12:46,799 ground to air 311 00:12:44,320 --> 00:12:49,680 >> airtoair battle between India and 312 00:12:46,799 --> 00:12:52,240 Pakistan will be absolutely critical in 313 00:12:49,679 --> 00:12:54,239 the next war that happens. This is the 314 00:12:52,240 --> 00:12:57,039 important thing and this is where coming 315 00:12:54,240 --> 00:13:00,320 back to where we started. The Chinese 316 00:12:57,039 --> 00:13:02,159 have not only given them the aircraft, 317 00:13:00,320 --> 00:13:04,639 Chinese have not only done the training 318 00:13:02,159 --> 00:13:06,719 with them. Chinese have not only helped 319 00:13:04,639 --> 00:13:08,799 them with one of the important 320 00:13:06,720 --> 00:13:12,079 institutions which was created under the 321 00:13:08,799 --> 00:13:13,919 Pakistan Air Force called Sent AIC, 322 00:13:12,078 --> 00:13:15,599 Center for Artificial Intelligence and 323 00:13:13,919 --> 00:13:17,360 Computing, which is about putting 324 00:13:15,600 --> 00:13:20,079 artificial intelligence in electronic 325 00:13:17,360 --> 00:13:22,800 warfare which is jamming. Now same thing 326 00:13:20,078 --> 00:13:23,519 they use it in the SDR what I was 327 00:13:22,799 --> 00:13:25,919 talking about. 328 00:13:23,519 --> 00:13:28,399 >> Yeah. So the point is they are 329 00:13:25,919 --> 00:13:32,078 physically present there because for 330 00:13:28,399 --> 00:13:35,679 them here is another point for them it 331 00:13:32,078 --> 00:13:37,599 was a validation of their what they had 332 00:13:35,679 --> 00:13:39,919 made and with that validation 333 00:13:37,600 --> 00:13:42,959 >> for the Pakistanis for the Chinese 334 00:13:39,919 --> 00:13:45,679 >> it's a validation that the J10 has 335 00:13:42,958 --> 00:13:48,559 performed successfully PL15 has 336 00:13:45,679 --> 00:13:51,439 performed successfully and therefore it 337 00:13:48,559 --> 00:13:54,159 is logical to conclude that now they 338 00:13:51,440 --> 00:13:56,560 will give that top-of-the-line equipment 339 00:13:54,159 --> 00:13:58,799 to Pakistan having learned the lessons 340 00:13:56,559 --> 00:14:01,359 of operation Sundur that Pakistan has 341 00:13:58,799 --> 00:14:02,399 learned and they will also be there with 342 00:14:01,360 --> 00:14:06,079 all the systems 343 00:14:02,399 --> 00:14:09,839 >> but Mr. Modi is saying that he has put 344 00:14:06,078 --> 00:14:12,638 down a new normal and what I would like 345 00:14:09,839 --> 00:14:13,920 to discuss with you is the consequences 346 00:14:12,639 --> 00:14:16,799 of this new normal. 347 00:14:13,919 --> 00:14:18,240 >> So you see uh this is actually a thing 348 00:14:16,799 --> 00:14:20,240 which should have been thought more 349 00:14:18,240 --> 00:14:22,480 deeply and I'll tell you why. First 350 00:14:20,240 --> 00:14:24,480 thing is that Prime Minister Modi, he 351 00:14:22,480 --> 00:14:25,360 has not ended operation Synindur. He has 352 00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:25,839 put it on pause. 353 00:14:25,360 --> 00:14:28,720 >> That's right. 354 00:14:25,839 --> 00:14:31,199 >> That means any side can lift the pause. 355 00:14:28,720 --> 00:14:33,839 >> I would rather say that he has kept it 356 00:14:31,198 --> 00:14:34,159 openended rather than put it on pause. 357 00:14:33,839 --> 00:14:36,000 That's right. 358 00:14:34,159 --> 00:14:37,120 >> In other words, it can be activated at a 359 00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:39,198 second's notice. 360 00:14:37,120 --> 00:14:40,560 >> That is from India's side. Our side. 361 00:14:39,198 --> 00:14:41,278 >> No, no, no. Even their side. I'll just 362 00:14:40,559 --> 00:14:44,000 come to that. 363 00:14:41,278 --> 00:14:46,320 >> No, but what Mr. Modi says does not 364 00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:49,198 apply to the other side. Why should they 365 00:14:46,320 --> 00:14:51,120 stick by that? We are keeping operation 366 00:14:49,198 --> 00:14:52,240 Sindur open. 367 00:14:51,120 --> 00:14:54,240 >> But they are impacted. 368 00:14:52,240 --> 00:14:54,879 >> They have not said anything to that. 369 00:14:54,240 --> 00:14:56,320 >> No, no, no. 370 00:14:54,879 --> 00:14:58,879 >> They will react only. No, 371 00:14:56,320 --> 00:15:00,959 >> no, no, no. See how it will work is that 372 00:14:58,879 --> 00:15:03,759 Prime Minister Modi has said that this 373 00:15:00,958 --> 00:15:05,278 is a pause and then as he pointed out a 374 00:15:03,759 --> 00:15:07,519 new normal has been created. And what is 375 00:15:05,278 --> 00:15:10,320 the new normal? The new normal is that 376 00:15:07,519 --> 00:15:11,278 any act of terror will be considered an 377 00:15:10,320 --> 00:15:11,839 act of war. 378 00:15:11,278 --> 00:15:14,320 >> Right? 379 00:15:11,839 --> 00:15:16,720 >> Number one. Number two, India will not 380 00:15:14,320 --> 00:15:18,399 make a distinction between terrorist and 381 00:15:16,720 --> 00:15:20,800 their sponsors. 382 00:15:18,399 --> 00:15:23,278 >> In other words, all this counterterror 383 00:15:20,799 --> 00:15:25,838 operations that we have done in the past 384 00:15:23,278 --> 00:15:27,759 which is the 2019 Balakort air force was 385 00:15:25,839 --> 00:15:28,959 used for counterterror operations, 386 00:15:27,759 --> 00:15:31,838 Synindur which was used for 387 00:15:28,958 --> 00:15:34,239 counterterror targeting. Now it will be 388 00:15:31,839 --> 00:15:37,440 no distinction between the terrorist and 389 00:15:34,240 --> 00:15:39,519 the sponsors. And then he has said that 390 00:15:37,440 --> 00:15:41,760 we will not be deterred by the nuclear 391 00:15:39,519 --> 00:15:44,639 red lines of Pakistan and we'll be 392 00:15:41,759 --> 00:15:47,679 proactive. Now if you put all this 393 00:15:44,639 --> 00:15:51,759 together what he's saying is the word is 394 00:15:47,679 --> 00:15:54,799 proactive. Now even they accuse us they 395 00:15:51,759 --> 00:15:57,440 they say that we are doing terrorism on 396 00:15:54,799 --> 00:15:59,359 their territory. They say it openly in 397 00:15:57,440 --> 00:16:01,279 Baluchasthan they say we are doing this 398 00:15:59,360 --> 00:16:04,000 we are creating trouble for them. So 399 00:16:01,278 --> 00:16:06,799 they can also be proactive 400 00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:09,440 and then we are saying that now the next 401 00:16:06,799 --> 00:16:11,198 time it'll be a full-fledged war because 402 00:16:09,440 --> 00:16:12,720 if you're talking of the sponsors you 403 00:16:11,198 --> 00:16:14,639 are talking of Pakistan army you're 404 00:16:12,720 --> 00:16:16,240 talking of Pakistan military the game 405 00:16:14,639 --> 00:16:19,440 changes 406 00:16:16,240 --> 00:16:21,440 see and this is what the world has heard 407 00:16:19,440 --> 00:16:23,680 now when the game changes if you allow 408 00:16:21,440 --> 00:16:26,560 me how will the game change let's look 409 00:16:23,679 --> 00:16:28,719 at that how it'll change is that we saw 410 00:16:26,559 --> 00:16:31,439 in Sud 411 00:16:28,720 --> 00:16:33,839 both sides we fired missiles We fired 412 00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:35,199 drones. See, normally the all the wars 413 00:16:33,839 --> 00:16:38,320 that have happened between India and 414 00:16:35,198 --> 00:16:40,159 Pakistan, there has been a contact line. 415 00:16:38,320 --> 00:16:41,920 Our army here, their army there, the 416 00:16:40,159 --> 00:16:45,360 armies fought, then they took some land, 417 00:16:41,919 --> 00:16:47,679 went in, air force helped over. Because 418 00:16:45,360 --> 00:16:51,120 in this we saw that the missiles and the 419 00:16:47,679 --> 00:16:52,958 drones they did depth targeting. 420 00:16:51,120 --> 00:16:55,440 When you do deep targeting, that means 421 00:16:52,958 --> 00:16:57,919 the battlefield, the front, the rear, 422 00:16:55,440 --> 00:16:59,839 the laterals are becoming meaningless. 423 00:16:57,919 --> 00:17:02,399 >> Yeah. It's all a battlefield. It's all a 424 00:16:59,839 --> 00:17:04,400 battlefield and therefore what what it 425 00:17:02,399 --> 00:17:07,599 means is that the threshold of a 426 00:17:04,400 --> 00:17:09,439 conventional war it comes down 427 00:17:07,599 --> 00:17:12,480 >> and then what happens is if you look at 428 00:17:09,439 --> 00:17:14,880 the elongated geography of Pakistan and 429 00:17:12,480 --> 00:17:17,439 you see high-profile targets including 430 00:17:14,880 --> 00:17:20,480 the nuclear infrastructure 431 00:17:17,439 --> 00:17:22,240 within range of our missiles 432 00:17:20,480 --> 00:17:24,798 that means now they have to start 433 00:17:22,240 --> 00:17:26,880 thinking about the nuclear thing also 434 00:17:24,798 --> 00:17:29,918 that means the threshold of nuclear also 435 00:17:26,880 --> 00:17:31,520 has come down So therefore the 436 00:17:29,919 --> 00:17:34,640 corrective measure they have immediately 437 00:17:31,519 --> 00:17:38,319 taken. What they have done is first of 438 00:17:34,640 --> 00:17:40,400 all the army chief general aim 439 00:17:38,319 --> 00:17:41,678 >> field he became field marshal but that 440 00:17:40,400 --> 00:17:43,440 is not the point. 441 00:17:41,679 --> 00:17:45,280 >> The point is he got an additional 442 00:17:43,440 --> 00:17:47,840 appointment and the additional 443 00:17:45,279 --> 00:17:50,720 appointment he's he's now the chief of 444 00:17:47,839 --> 00:17:53,759 defense forces which means that he is 445 00:17:50,720 --> 00:17:55,519 number one of the three. So whatever 446 00:17:53,759 --> 00:17:58,240 discussion has to happen about war 447 00:17:55,519 --> 00:18:01,519 options contingencies before the war 448 00:17:58,240 --> 00:18:05,200 he'll take the decision of war and bang 449 00:18:01,519 --> 00:18:06,798 then not only that then nuclear arsenal 450 00:18:05,200 --> 00:18:09,360 which is what they call the strategic 451 00:18:06,798 --> 00:18:11,599 plans division it used to be in a 452 00:18:09,359 --> 00:18:14,319 structure where which was headed by the 453 00:18:11,599 --> 00:18:15,119 prime minister of Pakistan now that is 454 00:18:14,319 --> 00:18:18,879 over 455 00:18:15,119 --> 00:18:20,879 >> it's headed by field 456 00:18:18,880 --> 00:18:22,799 he has created a new organization put 457 00:18:20,880 --> 00:18:25,520 the strategic plans division 458 00:18:22,798 --> 00:18:27,679 So the point I'm making is that in terms 459 00:18:25,519 --> 00:18:29,759 of decision making after India has 460 00:18:27,679 --> 00:18:31,440 declared that if there is another major 461 00:18:29,759 --> 00:18:33,038 terrorist attack it to be a full-scale 462 00:18:31,440 --> 00:18:34,880 war they are ready for war and the 463 00:18:33,038 --> 00:18:36,798 Chinese are there to help them with the 464 00:18:34,880 --> 00:18:39,919 state-of-art equipment and let me add 465 00:18:36,798 --> 00:18:44,720 one more point do you think this will 466 00:18:39,919 --> 00:18:47,360 figure this new uh concatenation of 467 00:18:44,720 --> 00:18:50,640 events will figure in Trump's 468 00:18:47,359 --> 00:18:53,759 discussions with she next week in 469 00:18:50,640 --> 00:18:55,280 Beijing? No, because as far as they are 470 00:18:53,759 --> 00:18:56,960 concerned, they have far too many things 471 00:18:55,279 --> 00:18:58,160 to sort out the 472 00:18:56,960 --> 00:19:00,480 >> meaning the Americans. 473 00:18:58,160 --> 00:19:03,440 >> No. Uh he's talking of President Trump 474 00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:05,919 is visiting China as of now on the 14th 475 00:19:03,440 --> 00:19:08,160 of May just 2 three days away and he'll 476 00:19:05,919 --> 00:19:10,320 be meeting President Xiing there. 477 00:19:08,160 --> 00:19:12,480 >> Now the key thing is that the Chinese 478 00:19:10,319 --> 00:19:14,798 first of all what they always tell the 479 00:19:12,480 --> 00:19:16,960 Americans that please understand our red 480 00:19:14,798 --> 00:19:19,119 line that is Taiwan. 481 00:19:16,960 --> 00:19:20,720 So that is one thing. Then there are 482 00:19:19,119 --> 00:19:22,479 issues of trade, there are issues of 483 00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:24,720 investments, there are issues of rare 484 00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:26,880 earth. So even there is issues of 485 00:19:24,720 --> 00:19:28,480 artificial intelligence. So all these 486 00:19:26,880 --> 00:19:30,640 things in fact they've had a couple of 487 00:19:28,480 --> 00:19:32,640 meetings and recently there was a 488 00:19:30,640 --> 00:19:35,679 delegation a Republican delegation had 489 00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:37,280 gone and visited China as as sort of a 490 00:19:35,679 --> 00:19:39,519 preparation to the visit of President 491 00:19:37,279 --> 00:19:41,038 Trump. They have gone there and they 492 00:19:39,519 --> 00:19:43,839 have had a discussion with their prime 493 00:19:41,038 --> 00:19:46,720 minister Nikqua and all these things are 494 00:19:43,839 --> 00:19:48,240 on the table. the war in West Asia, the 495 00:19:46,720 --> 00:19:51,279 war in Ukraine. I mean these are the 496 00:19:48,240 --> 00:19:53,519 issues as far as President Xi is 497 00:19:51,279 --> 00:19:56,079 concerned. He has made it very clear 498 00:19:53,519 --> 00:19:59,519 that you do anything with Pakistan, I 499 00:19:56,079 --> 00:20:02,960 stand with Pakistan physically. Now that 500 00:19:59,519 --> 00:20:05,359 is standing with Pakisting 501 00:20:02,960 --> 00:20:08,000 was key hardware, we have given 502 00:20:05,359 --> 00:20:11,038 hardware, we have given this, we have no 503 00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:13,440 you are not only see maintenance on the 504 00:20:11,038 --> 00:20:16,079 ground you are doing for them and you 505 00:20:13,440 --> 00:20:17,840 are basically preparing them for their 506 00:20:16,079 --> 00:20:20,480 operations. you being China 507 00:20:17,839 --> 00:20:23,119 >> China and you are assisting them in the 508 00:20:20,480 --> 00:20:24,000 operations that means you are part of 509 00:20:23,119 --> 00:20:24,719 them 510 00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:26,960 >> quite 511 00:20:24,720 --> 00:20:29,200 >> so as far as and then of course they'll 512 00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:31,519 be discussing West Asia the war in West 513 00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:32,880 Asia uh which you know is extremely 514 00:20:31,519 --> 00:20:36,000 important subject 515 00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:38,880 >> so where does that leave India 516 00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:41,038 >> see as far as India is concerned 517 00:20:38,880 --> 00:20:42,720 President Trump repeatedly says my 518 00:20:41,038 --> 00:20:43,038 favorite field marshal 519 00:20:42,720 --> 00:20:45,279 >> yes 520 00:20:43,038 --> 00:20:47,038 >> the profile of has gone up of field 521 00:20:45,279 --> 00:20:48,879 marshal as Munir and This is a very 522 00:20:47,038 --> 00:20:51,119 serious thing. I mean I have no issues 523 00:20:48,880 --> 00:20:53,200 with that. But if you see from the 524 00:20:51,119 --> 00:20:55,038 government of point of view, it's a very 525 00:20:53,200 --> 00:20:57,120 serious thing and this is not something 526 00:20:55,038 --> 00:20:57,519 which will go away in a hurry for two 527 00:20:57,119 --> 00:20:59,918 reasons. 528 00:20:57,519 --> 00:21:02,480 >> But is there not something contradictory 529 00:20:59,919 --> 00:21:05,520 about Trump insisting that India 530 00:21:02,480 --> 00:21:07,759 decrease its arms purchases from Russia, 531 00:21:05,519 --> 00:21:11,119 increase them with the US when the his 532 00:21:07,759 --> 00:21:14,400 favorite field marshall has 80% of his 533 00:21:11,119 --> 00:21:16,158 military stock coming in from China. So 534 00:21:14,400 --> 00:21:18,000 how does he reconcile these two? 535 00:21:16,159 --> 00:21:21,039 >> No, no, no. We have given him on a 536 00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:23,599 platter. You see on 13th of February 537 00:21:21,038 --> 00:21:25,519 2025 within days of the inauguration of 538 00:21:23,599 --> 00:21:26,158 President Trump, Prime Minister Modi was 539 00:21:25,519 --> 00:21:28,240 there. Yes. 540 00:21:26,159 --> 00:21:30,240 >> And we signed a joint statement. And the 541 00:21:28,240 --> 00:21:32,960 key thing in the joint statement is 542 00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:35,440 mission 500. What that means is our 543 00:21:32,960 --> 00:21:38,240 present bilateral trade stands at 139 544 00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:41,679 billion. By 2030 which is around the 545 00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:43,839 corner we'll make it five 500 bilateral 546 00:21:41,679 --> 00:21:45,840 trade 500 billion dollars 547 00:21:43,839 --> 00:21:47,038 >> that can only come through oil and 548 00:21:45,839 --> 00:21:49,038 military equipment. 549 00:21:47,038 --> 00:21:50,319 >> Exactly. And technology of course lot of 550 00:21:49,038 --> 00:21:53,359 technology is coming the fourth 551 00:21:50,319 --> 00:21:56,319 generation technologies. So basically we 552 00:21:53,359 --> 00:21:58,879 have mortgaged everything our trade 553 00:21:56,319 --> 00:22:01,599 entire thing to the Americans and the 554 00:21:58,880 --> 00:22:04,960 Americans on the other hand are now 555 00:22:01,599 --> 00:22:07,678 having making peace with China. So our 556 00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:09,440 strategic role which used to be there as 557 00:22:07,679 --> 00:22:11,280 long as the Biden administration was 558 00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:13,279 there starting from the Obama 559 00:22:11,279 --> 00:22:15,678 administration that we were supposed to 560 00:22:13,279 --> 00:22:17,519 provide be the military bullwark for 561 00:22:15,679 --> 00:22:20,640 America in the Indian Ocean region 562 00:22:17,519 --> 00:22:23,440 against China that is over 563 00:22:20,640 --> 00:22:25,919 >> on the other hand on the other hand 564 00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:28,159 President Trump has given a elevated 565 00:22:25,919 --> 00:22:30,640 role it's not President Trump alone the 566 00:22:28,159 --> 00:22:32,320 Russians the Chinese then the GCC 567 00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:34,960 countries six countries the other 568 00:22:32,319 --> 00:22:36,079 countries in the region Pakistan is a 569 00:22:34,960 --> 00:22:39,120 star. 570 00:22:36,079 --> 00:22:41,918 >> It is not a facilitator. It is not a it 571 00:22:39,119 --> 00:22:45,119 is not only a mediator. It will now 572 00:22:41,919 --> 00:22:47,038 provide security to the GCC countries 573 00:22:45,119 --> 00:22:49,519 and two countries. One it already gives 574 00:22:47,038 --> 00:22:52,480 to Saudi Arabia and Qatar is already in 575 00:22:49,519 --> 00:22:54,400 talks with them and except for UAE I see 576 00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:55,200 the others also falling in line over a 577 00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:57,038 period of time. 578 00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:57,679 >> But do they have the military capacity 579 00:22:57,038 --> 00:22:58,720 to do this? 580 00:22:57,679 --> 00:23:02,798 >> Of course they have. 581 00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:07,120 >> Okay. But so this tectonic shift in 582 00:23:02,798 --> 00:23:07,440 geopolitics is in favor of Pakistan 583 00:23:07,119 --> 00:23:09,599 >> again 584 00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:10,320 >> or has been taken advantage of by 585 00:23:09,599 --> 00:23:13,839 Pakistan. 586 00:23:10,319 --> 00:23:16,480 >> Again again again again you know uh 587 00:23:13,839 --> 00:23:19,759 I hope you don't mind. Of course not. We 588 00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:22,480 we now have to think of win-win. 589 00:23:19,759 --> 00:23:24,079 >> If Pakistan wins we have to see how we 590 00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:24,720 also win along with Pakistan. 591 00:23:24,079 --> 00:23:26,000 >> Ah that's 592 00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:28,240 >> this is the way I see things. 593 00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:29,279 >> Win win along with Pakistan. Absolutely. 594 00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:32,159 Not against Pakistan. 595 00:23:29,279 --> 00:23:36,079 >> No, no, no, no. See, the whole idea, the 596 00:23:32,159 --> 00:23:38,559 whole idea should be that in South Asia, 597 00:23:36,079 --> 00:23:40,879 how do we reduce our tensions with 598 00:23:38,558 --> 00:23:43,038 China? How do we reduce our tensions 599 00:23:40,880 --> 00:23:45,520 with Pakistan? We need to cut our 600 00:23:43,038 --> 00:23:48,240 budgets, we need to cut our troops. And 601 00:23:45,519 --> 00:23:51,759 we have to see anybody who has a cursory 602 00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:55,359 look of the map realizes that when you 603 00:23:51,759 --> 00:23:57,919 look at Eurasia, these three blobs, they 604 00:23:55,359 --> 00:24:00,399 become one. Central Asia, West Asia, 605 00:23:57,919 --> 00:24:02,159 South Asia and as far as Pakistan is 606 00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:05,280 concerned, it is there now in South 607 00:24:02,159 --> 00:24:07,760 Asia, it is there in West Asia and it is 608 00:24:05,279 --> 00:24:09,839 very much in Central Asia also. So the 609 00:24:07,759 --> 00:24:11,759 point I'm making is it is very good. The 610 00:24:09,839 --> 00:24:14,639 connectivity is there because it helps 611 00:24:11,759 --> 00:24:16,879 them. But we also should make take 612 00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:18,880 advantage of that and both the Chinese 613 00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:21,120 and the Pakistanis 614 00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:24,480 want to talk with India. So what you're 615 00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:28,158 saying is that in foreign policy it is 616 00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:31,519 imperative that we open engagement, open 617 00:24:28,159 --> 00:24:34,320 negotiations, open dialogue with both 618 00:24:31,519 --> 00:24:35,519 Pakistan and with China which we have 619 00:24:34,319 --> 00:24:37,200 been rejecting. 620 00:24:35,519 --> 00:24:40,240 >> Absolutely. Because this is the new 621 00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:43,840 world order the new world. Sorry please. 622 00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:46,319 >> But it is uh very muddled and confusing. 623 00:24:43,839 --> 00:24:47,839 There's Pakistan and China together 624 00:24:46,319 --> 00:24:51,759 militarily 625 00:24:47,839 --> 00:24:54,319 and we are supposed to buy 500 billion 626 00:24:51,759 --> 00:24:58,558 or whatever worth of equipment etc from 627 00:24:54,319 --> 00:25:01,678 the US. So it should be uh logically 628 00:24:58,558 --> 00:25:03,918 Pakistan and China, India and US but US 629 00:25:01,679 --> 00:25:06,320 is making friends with China. So we are 630 00:25:03,919 --> 00:25:06,559 just dumped by all sides. No, no, no, 631 00:25:06,319 --> 00:25:08,558 no, 632 00:25:06,558 --> 00:25:11,759 >> no, no, no, no. Because the new world 633 00:25:08,558 --> 00:25:14,720 order that we are talking about uh where 634 00:25:11,759 --> 00:25:17,038 this year we have the BRICS presidency 635 00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:20,720 and in the BRICS presidency the three 636 00:25:17,038 --> 00:25:22,000 key players are basically Russia, India 637 00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:25,679 and China RI IC. 638 00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:27,440 >> Yeah. Except that India under Mr. Modi 639 00:25:25,679 --> 00:25:30,720 does not even have the courage to 640 00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:32,480 convene a meeting a summit. It's not 641 00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:35,679 doing it. I I I you know what 642 00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:37,599 >> because the so many members of bricks in 643 00:25:35,679 --> 00:25:40,559 fact I think all members other than us 644 00:25:37,599 --> 00:25:43,359 the principal members have a view on 645 00:25:40,558 --> 00:25:45,200 Palestine have a view on Iran which we 646 00:25:43,359 --> 00:25:47,759 are not willing to affirm 647 00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:48,880 >> so basically we are caught in a bind 648 00:25:47,759 --> 00:25:50,000 because of various 649 00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:52,320 >> I think that's what she meant 650 00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:55,679 >> no I agree entirely with you but if we 651 00:25:52,319 --> 00:25:59,038 are to take advantage of geopolitics see 652 00:25:55,679 --> 00:26:02,798 when we say and the people say they say 653 00:25:59,038 --> 00:26:05,919 that India's big uh you know advantage 654 00:26:02,798 --> 00:26:08,639 is 1.4 4 billion people they actually 655 00:26:05,919 --> 00:26:10,640 become a liability if there is no peace 656 00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:13,278 if there is no education is if there is 657 00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:16,159 no development and for development you 658 00:26:13,278 --> 00:26:18,159 need peace and for peace if you see 659 00:26:16,159 --> 00:26:21,360 before prime minister Modi came to power 660 00:26:18,159 --> 00:26:23,520 in 2014 we were talking with Pakistan 661 00:26:21,359 --> 00:26:26,639 there are problems and I'm sure they can 662 00:26:23,519 --> 00:26:29,679 be ironed out today and with China we 663 00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:31,679 had see the border problem is there so 664 00:26:29,679 --> 00:26:34,080 we have to find a way out for the border 665 00:26:31,679 --> 00:26:36,320 problem and one way out is that if you 666 00:26:34,079 --> 00:26:38,639 make peace with Pakistan, Pakistan is 667 00:26:36,319 --> 00:26:41,519 willing to make peace and what are we 668 00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:45,120 saying to Pakistan? We will only talk on 669 00:26:41,519 --> 00:26:48,079 two issues on terror and on how to get 670 00:26:45,119 --> 00:26:51,119 back Pakistan occupied Kashmir. 671 00:26:48,079 --> 00:26:53,119 They are saying talk on Kashmir and 672 00:26:51,119 --> 00:26:55,439 let's talk on terror also because they 673 00:26:53,119 --> 00:26:57,839 also have a gr on. They have more than 674 00:26:55,440 --> 00:27:00,798 once said they'll talk on terror and on 675 00:26:57,839 --> 00:27:03,278 Kashmir under General Perves Busharav 676 00:27:00,798 --> 00:27:07,119 there was what he called the fourpoint 677 00:27:03,278 --> 00:27:09,759 formula. So it is possible for us to 678 00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:12,319 tackle even the most difficult questions 679 00:27:09,759 --> 00:27:15,679 but we can't tackle even the easiest one 680 00:27:12,319 --> 00:27:19,839 if we don't engage with them. Now 40 681 00:27:15,679 --> 00:27:23,440 years ago nearly Rajiv Gandhi set a 682 00:27:19,839 --> 00:27:27,359 grand example when within weeks of each 683 00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:29,519 other in the same month of December 1988 684 00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:32,399 he first went to China then went to 685 00:27:29,519 --> 00:27:34,798 Pakistan the first Indian prime minister 686 00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:36,798 to visit China in three decades and the 687 00:27:34,798 --> 00:27:40,240 first Indian prime minister to visit 688 00:27:36,798 --> 00:27:44,000 Pakistan in nearly four decades and 689 00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:46,319 something started. Now we seem to be 690 00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:48,000 completely stranded and we are just 691 00:27:46,319 --> 00:27:50,480 caught in our own cut coils. 692 00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:52,319 >> Now now can I just add one point what 693 00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:53,759 you said is perfectly I mean nobody can 694 00:27:52,319 --> 00:27:54,798 disagree with that. Just add 695 00:27:53,759 --> 00:27:55,839 >> except Mr. Modi. 696 00:27:54,798 --> 00:27:58,960 >> No no no 697 00:27:55,839 --> 00:28:01,119 >> except except to make a point that you 698 00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:02,960 see the world has changed today. When I 699 00:28:01,119 --> 00:28:05,199 say the world has changed it's a 700 00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:07,600 multipolar world. We you are talking of 701 00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:09,919 the uniolar world. Multipolar world with 702 00:28:07,599 --> 00:28:12,000 three great powers China, Russia and 703 00:28:09,919 --> 00:28:14,000 America. Three powers are there. There's 704 00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:15,599 not one power. And so the world has 705 00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:17,119 changed. There is a new world order that 706 00:28:15,599 --> 00:28:19,519 we are talking about. Not to go in the 707 00:28:17,119 --> 00:28:23,439 details of that. This is the opportunity 708 00:28:19,519 --> 00:28:26,240 for us to actually talk with Pakistan 709 00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:29,200 because it is win-win for us. Win-win in 710 00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:31,839 terms of peace. Win-win in terms of 711 00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:33,759 connectivity. Now, why are we always 712 00:28:31,839 --> 00:28:36,079 listening to Trump? He tells us, "All 713 00:28:33,759 --> 00:28:38,158 right, you can buy oil from Russia, not 714 00:28:36,079 --> 00:28:40,240 buy oil from Russia. You can trade with 715 00:28:38,159 --> 00:28:41,679 Iran, you can't trade with Iran. You 716 00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:44,079 can't go to Chabar port. We have 717 00:28:41,679 --> 00:28:46,720 invested in Chabar port. Now we want to 718 00:28:44,079 --> 00:28:48,720 have connectivity what we call the West 719 00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:52,558 Asia quad. And what is the West Asia 720 00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:57,679 chord? The West Asia chord is I2 U2. I2 721 00:28:52,558 --> 00:29:00,879 is India uh Israel and U2 is America and 722 00:28:57,679 --> 00:29:03,360 UAE. And this is a non-starter 723 00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:05,360 today in the war and the new framework 724 00:29:03,359 --> 00:29:09,278 that is coming up. You see what will 725 00:29:05,359 --> 00:29:12,479 happen is that in the next uh three or 726 00:29:09,278 --> 00:29:15,038 or maybe less a new regional framework 727 00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:17,919 will come in come in West Asia and this 728 00:29:15,038 --> 00:29:19,519 is the reason that recently it was in 729 00:29:17,919 --> 00:29:22,080 the news that the Iranian foreign 730 00:29:19,519 --> 00:29:23,599 minister he traveled to Russia and he 731 00:29:22,079 --> 00:29:26,158 traveled to China because in the 732 00:29:23,599 --> 00:29:28,158 multipolar world he has support of these 733 00:29:26,159 --> 00:29:30,399 two great powers and what did he talk 734 00:29:28,159 --> 00:29:32,080 there he was talking about the new 735 00:29:30,398 --> 00:29:35,199 regional framework 736 00:29:32,079 --> 00:29:35,599 >> I would call it the Asian resurgence. 737 00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:37,600 >> Yeah, 738 00:29:35,599 --> 00:29:40,959 >> this is the new Asia. 739 00:29:37,599 --> 00:29:43,759 >> So here Pakistan will have a big role 740 00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:45,840 and we have good relations with Iran. 741 00:29:43,759 --> 00:29:48,798 You know the reason why Iran today 742 00:29:45,839 --> 00:29:51,119 supports us, it is not really in my 743 00:29:48,798 --> 00:29:52,960 assessment the the government, it is the 744 00:29:51,119 --> 00:29:55,678 people of India. 745 00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:57,440 >> We have that centuries old 746 00:29:55,679 --> 00:29:59,840 >> relationship. Going back to 747 00:29:57,440 --> 00:30:03,360 >> so coming back to uh some you know point 748 00:29:59,839 --> 00:30:05,759 to make a point is that we need to have 749 00:30:03,359 --> 00:30:07,918 peace we need to have development we 750 00:30:05,759 --> 00:30:10,319 need to have connectivity win-win with 751 00:30:07,919 --> 00:30:12,080 Pakistan normalization of ties with 752 00:30:10,319 --> 00:30:16,079 China something that I keep saying 753 00:30:12,079 --> 00:30:18,158 >> om shanti shanti shanti 754 00:30:16,079 --> 00:30:20,720 this is the message of India 755 00:30:18,159 --> 00:30:25,360 civilization which seems which modern 756 00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:28,000 India 21st India 2026 India seems to 757 00:30:25,359 --> 00:30:28,959 have totally forgotten. 758 00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:30,079 >> Thank you very much. 759 00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:32,240 >> Thank you so much. 760 00:30:30,079 --> 00:30:35,240 >> Thank you Sudith. 761 00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:35,240 Namaskar.