WEBVTT 00:00:04.230 --> 00:00:07.368 [Music] 00:00:09.830 --> 00:00:14.519 we've talked of the material we've 00:00:12.150 --> 00:00:17.940 talked of the political we've talked of 00:00:14.519 --> 00:00:20.368 entertainment and art and cinema next up 00:00:17.940 --> 00:00:23.760 we're going to talk about faith in 00:00:20.368 --> 00:00:26.460 reason and its place in society and the 00:00:23.760 --> 00:00:29.960 various forms that faith is taking in 00:00:26.460 --> 00:00:37.679 the modern world we have Jaggi Vasudev 00:00:29.960 --> 00:00:40.200 Sadhguru Jaggi Vasudev the head of 00:00:37.679 --> 00:00:42.119 Ischia foundation that has centers 00:00:40.200 --> 00:00:44.969 across a hundred and sixty cities across 00:00:42.119 --> 00:00:48.209 the world two hundred to two million 00:00:44.969 --> 00:00:52.079 volunteers and of and a following that 00:00:48.210 --> 00:00:53.520 is passionate and urban and mystical 00:00:52.079 --> 00:00:56.640 with him 00:00:53.520 --> 00:01:00.539 we have Javed Akhtar lyricist script 00:00:56.640 --> 00:01:02.850 writer legendary man of cinema but also 00:01:00.539 --> 00:01:05.519 somebody who is a committed and fierce 00:01:02.850 --> 00:01:08.609 rationalist both of them will be talking 00:01:05.519 --> 00:01:12.590 about the space for faith and reason in 00:01:08.609 --> 00:01:12.590 our society please welcome them on stage 00:01:12.709 --> 00:01:22.559 you have a passion for snakes SUVs bikes 00:01:18.109 --> 00:01:25.228 helicopters adventure travel you have a 00:01:22.560 --> 00:01:27.509 flair for entrepreneurship your passion 00:01:25.228 --> 00:01:30.359 is the construction business and your 00:01:27.509 --> 00:01:33.329 asset guru can you spell out what is the 00:01:30.359 --> 00:01:36.180 core philosophy of your foundation of 00:01:33.328 --> 00:01:41.699 your practices and how do these two 00:01:36.180 --> 00:01:44.310 aspects of you sit together good evening 00:01:41.700 --> 00:01:44.640 everyone first of all let me correct 00:01:44.310 --> 00:01:48.390 that 00:01:44.640 --> 00:01:50.640 I have no passion for snakes or SUVs or 00:01:48.390 --> 00:01:53.960 helicopters I'm just passionate about 00:01:50.640 --> 00:01:57.750 life and just about anything that I do 00:01:53.959 --> 00:02:00.179 it's not about this or that I do not 00:01:57.750 --> 00:02:03.209 know how to do anything without absolute 00:02:00.180 --> 00:02:07.259 involvement so passion is a word that 00:02:03.209 --> 00:02:10.199 people attach but it's just that just 00:02:07.259 --> 00:02:11.949 about anything that I do I do not know 00:02:10.199 --> 00:02:15.549 how to do it without absolute 00:02:11.949 --> 00:02:19.209 involvement because it's only with 00:02:15.550 --> 00:02:21.010 involvement one knows life it doesn't 00:02:19.209 --> 00:02:22.989 matter whether you're doing business or 00:02:21.009 --> 00:02:25.719 art or music spirituality doesn't matter 00:02:22.989 --> 00:02:29.800 what you're doing if you're not involved 00:02:25.719 --> 00:02:32.129 you'll miss it all so I'm just involved 00:02:29.800 --> 00:02:34.030 these are all names that people attach 00:02:32.129 --> 00:02:37.989 there's only a few things that people 00:02:34.030 --> 00:02:40.419 have seen well you know I'll come back 00:02:37.989 --> 00:02:42.878 to this strand of materialism sitting 00:02:40.419 --> 00:02:45.518 well with spirituality but before that 00:02:42.878 --> 00:02:47.560 you know you say that what you your 00:02:45.519 --> 00:02:50.980 philosophy is not even a teaching it's a 00:02:47.560 --> 00:02:53.019 technology and it just works what is 00:02:50.979 --> 00:02:54.909 that can you articulate it and what does 00:02:53.019 --> 00:02:56.319 it mean when they have to be personal 00:02:54.909 --> 00:02:58.000 endeavor one doesn't have to be a 00:02:56.318 --> 00:03:02.619 learner but you can just achieve a 00:02:58.000 --> 00:03:06.579 technology so this is there is no 00:03:02.620 --> 00:03:08.079 philosophy because generally 00:03:06.579 --> 00:03:11.409 philosophies are just fantastic 00:03:08.079 --> 00:03:15.879 explanations for those aspects of life 00:03:11.409 --> 00:03:21.219 which can never be explained so they 00:03:15.879 --> 00:03:23.560 essentially we're here whatever you 00:03:21.219 --> 00:03:27.310 think about it is just your thought but 00:03:23.560 --> 00:03:28.930 the fact of it is if you look at this as 00:03:27.310 --> 00:03:32.949 a human being 00:03:28.930 --> 00:03:36.599 this human mechanism is the most 00:03:32.949 --> 00:03:36.599 sophisticated technology on the planet 00:03:37.049 --> 00:03:43.359 whatever other gadgets that we have they 00:03:40.930 --> 00:03:47.739 all come out of it out of this one this 00:03:43.359 --> 00:03:50.079 is the most sophisticated mechanism you 00:03:47.739 --> 00:03:54.039 see today people are deeply engrossed in 00:03:50.079 --> 00:03:57.340 their iPhones but what would I this is 00:03:54.039 --> 00:03:59.620 the thing this is the gadget if you pay 00:03:57.340 --> 00:04:02.560 enough attention to this you would 00:03:59.620 --> 00:04:06.030 understand how to operate this at its 00:04:02.560 --> 00:04:08.949 highest possible mode so the whole 00:04:06.030 --> 00:04:12.340 process that we refer to as spiritual is 00:04:08.949 --> 00:04:15.009 just this so that this mechanism attains 00:04:12.340 --> 00:04:16.988 its fullest capability and possibility 00:04:15.009 --> 00:04:20.529 that it doesn't just operate in a 00:04:16.988 --> 00:04:23.049 minimalistic way so that's why it's a 00:04:20.529 --> 00:04:25.059 technology philosophies have happened 00:04:23.050 --> 00:04:27.430 because of the misunderstanding 00:04:25.060 --> 00:04:29.589 the technology otherwise essentially 00:04:27.430 --> 00:04:31.600 only technologies were transmitted you 00:04:29.589 --> 00:04:33.489 might if you look back and see there 00:04:31.600 --> 00:04:37.300 were no teachings in this country there 00:04:33.490 --> 00:04:40.000 were only methods methods how to do it 00:04:37.300 --> 00:04:42.430 how to make this happen at its highest 00:04:40.000 --> 00:04:44.949 possible level so once we enter this 00:04:42.430 --> 00:04:47.709 fear being a subjective dimension of 00:04:44.949 --> 00:04:50.199 life you have a body you have a mind you 00:04:47.709 --> 00:04:52.659 have emotions you have energy supporting 00:04:50.199 --> 00:04:56.079 this all these three so when we handle 00:04:52.660 --> 00:04:57.460 all these four dimensions some of it may 00:04:56.079 --> 00:05:00.430 not come under the purview of 00:04:57.459 --> 00:05:03.159 rudimentary logic and reason that a lot 00:05:00.430 --> 00:05:05.319 of people subscribe to because of that 00:05:03.160 --> 00:05:07.600 rudimentary level of reasoning they 00:05:05.319 --> 00:05:09.668 think it's beyond reason it is very much 00:05:07.600 --> 00:05:15.340 in reason if you probe into it we can go 00:05:09.668 --> 00:05:18.339 into it but in fact you know before we 00:05:15.339 --> 00:05:20.500 go further with that in the past you 00:05:18.339 --> 00:05:22.119 said yes that you know in India there's 00:05:20.500 --> 00:05:24.610 always been methods there hasn't been 00:05:22.120 --> 00:05:27.490 teachings but the purpose of 00:05:24.610 --> 00:05:29.470 spirituality was to some extent to 00:05:27.490 --> 00:05:32.439 disconnect people from desire from 00:05:29.470 --> 00:05:35.680 materialism to understand the limits of 00:05:32.439 --> 00:05:37.620 that why is it that with the Isha 00:05:35.680 --> 00:05:40.620 Foundation's philosophy just 00:05:37.620 --> 00:05:43.090 self-actualization is the goal you know 00:05:40.620 --> 00:05:45.490 expressing yourself to the maximum you 00:05:43.089 --> 00:05:49.359 can rather than to understand the 00:05:45.490 --> 00:05:52.660 finiteness of that say yeah 00:05:49.360 --> 00:05:54.509 this understanding that spiritual means 00:05:52.660 --> 00:05:58.479 you have to disassociate you with desire 00:05:54.509 --> 00:06:00.909 let's understand it this way if you 00:05:58.478 --> 00:06:03.038 desire for food if you desire for money 00:06:00.910 --> 00:06:05.729 if you desire for a piece of land on 00:06:03.038 --> 00:06:08.019 this planet if this is considered greed 00:06:05.728 --> 00:06:11.019 now you want to know the very source of 00:06:08.019 --> 00:06:13.418 creation this is super green isn't it so 00:06:11.019 --> 00:06:15.819 where is the question of dissociating it 00:06:13.418 --> 00:06:18.399 is evolution of desire not associating 00:06:15.819 --> 00:06:20.019 with desire your desire is evolved when 00:06:18.399 --> 00:06:22.750 you are a five-year-old child what you 00:06:20.019 --> 00:06:25.240 desired for completely fell away when 00:06:22.750 --> 00:06:27.160 you were 10 what you desire for when you 00:06:25.240 --> 00:06:29.769 were 10 completely was meaningless when 00:06:27.160 --> 00:06:31.389 you're 15 what you desired as 15 when 00:06:29.769 --> 00:06:34.870 you're 30 doesn't make any sense 00:06:31.389 --> 00:06:38.019 so your desire is evolving if you evolve 00:06:34.870 --> 00:06:38.918 very slowly you will go at this pace if 00:06:38.019 --> 00:06:41.498 you go 00:06:38.918 --> 00:06:43.839 your experience and think beyond and 00:06:41.499 --> 00:06:46.060 reason beyond where you are right now as 00:06:43.839 --> 00:06:47.679 you sit here if you understand that 00:06:46.060 --> 00:06:50.468 after all you and me are mortal 00:06:47.680 --> 00:06:52.689 whatever we may do when you understand 00:06:50.468 --> 00:06:54.218 your motto naturally the question of 00:06:52.689 --> 00:06:55.330 what is beyond where did I come from 00:06:54.218 --> 00:06:57.519 where will I go 00:06:55.329 --> 00:07:02.050 this is naturally in the purview of 00:06:57.519 --> 00:07:04.568 human intellect see if you are not given 00:07:02.050 --> 00:07:07.509 ready-made answers by somebody it is 00:07:04.569 --> 00:07:10.120 very very natural that every human 00:07:07.509 --> 00:07:11.710 intellect will inquire where did I come 00:07:10.120 --> 00:07:14.769 from where will I go what is the nature 00:07:11.709 --> 00:07:17.138 of my existence so this is not 00:07:14.769 --> 00:07:18.579 dissociating from desire this is just 00:07:17.139 --> 00:07:23.288 evolving your desire to a new 00:07:18.579 --> 00:07:24.788 possibility I'm going to bring Javid 00:07:23.288 --> 00:07:26.560 selves into the conversation in a bit 00:07:24.788 --> 00:07:33.959 Javed sir I just want to prove this a 00:07:26.560 --> 00:07:33.959 little more I'll finish it 00:07:34.720 --> 00:07:42.620 Sadhguru G Javed Sahab this is called 00:07:40.819 --> 00:07:43.839 theatrical timing you've got a clap for 00:07:42.620 --> 00:07:46.990 saying nothing actually 00:07:43.839 --> 00:07:49.669 [Laughter] 00:07:46.990 --> 00:07:53.509 Sadhguru G you know we we've called our 00:07:49.670 --> 00:07:54.500 session five stars fixes because and the 00:07:53.509 --> 00:07:56.269 reason I'm saying this is because 00:07:54.500 --> 00:07:59.240 perhaps it's something that one doesn't 00:07:56.269 --> 00:08:00.740 understand that to be a part of your 00:07:59.240 --> 00:08:02.300 course which actually a lot of my 00:08:00.740 --> 00:08:04.819 friends have taken and I must admit that 00:08:02.300 --> 00:08:08.060 it does transform them the breathing 00:08:04.819 --> 00:08:13.969 techniques they come back , people but 00:08:08.060 --> 00:08:16.339 it costs a lot how is your spirituality 00:08:13.970 --> 00:08:19.520 your technique your old technology is 00:08:16.339 --> 00:08:20.709 not available for the poor I want you to 00:08:19.519 --> 00:08:24.829 understand this 00:08:20.709 --> 00:08:28.339 70% of ISA Foundation's work is in rural 00:08:24.829 --> 00:08:33.189 India where it's 100% free I'm just 00:08:28.339 --> 00:08:33.189 rubbing you to keep that 70% actor 00:08:40.570 --> 00:08:49.879 so you need to understand this we charge 00:08:46.850 --> 00:08:52.190 one way in the United States another way 00:08:49.879 --> 00:08:55.399 in UK another way in Lebanon anna devane 00:08:52.190 --> 00:08:58.430 Zelenka another way in India one way in 00:08:55.399 --> 00:09:00.590 Mumbai one way in there some one way in 00:08:58.429 --> 00:09:02.539 a local town and in the village it's 00:09:00.590 --> 00:09:08.690 free you've got to give you accountants 00:09:02.539 --> 00:09:10.490 to the government and above all the 00:09:08.690 --> 00:09:13.580 volume of work our volunteers are doing 00:09:10.490 --> 00:09:15.200 is all funded by this the amount of 00:09:13.580 --> 00:09:18.139 medical work free medical work that's 00:09:15.200 --> 00:09:19.759 happening education very involved with 00:09:18.139 --> 00:09:22.490 about thirty six thousand children right 00:09:19.759 --> 00:09:23.409 now actively with the largest ecological 00:09:22.490 --> 00:09:25.519 moment in the country 00:09:23.409 --> 00:09:28.269 nowhere in the history of independent 00:09:25.519 --> 00:09:30.500 India has this happened in any state 00:09:28.269 --> 00:09:33.769 Tamil Nadu is green cover has gone up 00:09:30.500 --> 00:09:35.299 7.2% in a matter of eight years with 17 00:09:33.769 --> 00:09:39.919 million living trees that we have 00:09:35.299 --> 00:09:42.679 planted so where does money come from 00:09:39.919 --> 00:09:45.319 all this guru that doesn't answer my 00:09:42.679 --> 00:09:49.370 question because you do a lot of rural 00:09:45.320 --> 00:09:51.020 outreach and one knows that those who do 00:09:49.370 --> 00:09:53.570 not have money should come and take it 00:09:51.019 --> 00:09:56.120 in the village it's free no I I was 00:09:53.570 --> 00:09:58.670 talking about now the thing is five-star 00:09:56.120 --> 00:10:00.860 culture people want air-conditioned 00:09:58.669 --> 00:10:02.719 rooms people want all the comfort and 00:10:00.860 --> 00:10:06.470 they want it free how does it come 00:10:02.720 --> 00:10:08.389 somebody has to pay for it to finish my 00:10:06.470 --> 00:10:11.090 question it's not about you charging the 00:10:08.389 --> 00:10:12.769 rich which is fine for the well-being 00:10:11.090 --> 00:10:15.040 I was asking whether your breathing 00:10:12.769 --> 00:10:16.850 techniques your technology of 00:10:15.039 --> 00:10:19.039 self-actualization whether that is 00:10:16.850 --> 00:10:21.560 available to the poor your meditative 00:10:19.039 --> 00:10:24.079 techniques you know not use I'm talking 00:10:21.559 --> 00:10:26.179 about the meditative techniques all the 00:10:24.080 --> 00:10:32.060 inner engineering programs in the 00:10:26.179 --> 00:10:34.699 villages are free 100% free one other 00:10:32.059 --> 00:10:36.500 question which is about your central 00:10:34.700 --> 00:10:38.570 philosophy is to do with yoga and with 00:10:36.500 --> 00:10:40.610 breathing techniques but there is also 00:10:38.570 --> 00:10:43.850 another I would like to dissociate from 00:10:40.610 --> 00:10:47.450 that word philosophy technology is 00:10:43.850 --> 00:10:50.570 connected with breathing techniques but 00:10:47.450 --> 00:10:50.850 you also believe in in past life you 00:10:50.570 --> 00:10:53.190 know 00:10:50.850 --> 00:10:55.470 my colleagues spent a week with you at 00:10:53.190 --> 00:10:57.959 the foundation and wrote a big piece and 00:10:55.470 --> 00:11:00.569 he said that their people feel that they 00:10:57.958 --> 00:11:03.328 can see disembodied selves that you know 00:11:00.568 --> 00:11:07.110 your wife you felt was a sister from the 00:11:03.328 --> 00:11:09.539 past life you know we've had James Randi 00:11:07.110 --> 00:11:12.750 here who was shooting through this kind 00:11:09.539 --> 00:11:13.919 of faith system and you said something 00:11:12.750 --> 00:11:15.448 very interesting to my colleague you 00:11:13.919 --> 00:11:17.250 know when he was being skeptical about 00:11:15.448 --> 00:11:19.620 this whole idea of past life and seeing 00:11:17.250 --> 00:11:21.539 spirits that are disembodied you said 00:11:19.620 --> 00:11:23.039 the reason you disbelieve all this is 00:11:21.539 --> 00:11:24.899 because your mind is in the UK and 00:11:23.039 --> 00:11:27.269 Greenwich Mean Time you know and not in 00:11:24.899 --> 00:11:29.730 India so is it really about conditioning 00:11:27.269 --> 00:11:33.778 of minds it is not about conditioning of 00:11:29.730 --> 00:11:34.289 minds let's look at it this way when you 00:11:33.778 --> 00:11:36.600 were born 00:11:34.289 --> 00:11:40.169 you were not made like this isn't it you 00:11:36.600 --> 00:11:41.639 are so small now this much happen how so 00:11:40.169 --> 00:11:47.189 what you call as my body is an 00:11:41.639 --> 00:11:48.568 accumulation accumulation it's just a 00:11:47.190 --> 00:11:51.060 piece of planet that you accumulate 00:11:48.568 --> 00:11:53.250 through the food that you eat what you 00:11:51.059 --> 00:11:55.018 call as my mind is a heap of impressions 00:11:53.250 --> 00:11:57.740 which you also accumulate or a period of 00:11:55.019 --> 00:12:01.409 time so your body is an accumulation 00:11:57.740 --> 00:12:04.129 your mind is an accumulation what you 00:12:01.409 --> 00:12:07.289 accumulate at the most you can claim 00:12:04.129 --> 00:12:09.809 it's yours but you cannot say it's me 00:12:07.289 --> 00:12:11.458 isn't it it's like the five percent of 00:12:09.809 --> 00:12:12.719 the universe that we understand now one 00:12:11.458 --> 00:12:14.719 of the scientists will tell you no no 00:12:12.720 --> 00:12:17.639 I'm not talking about that say right now 00:12:14.720 --> 00:12:20.220 whatever you accumulate you can claim 00:12:17.639 --> 00:12:23.159 it's yours but you cannot claim it's 00:12:20.220 --> 00:12:24.439 mean isn't it what you accumulate cannot 00:12:23.159 --> 00:12:27.448 be you isn't it 00:12:24.438 --> 00:12:30.929 so you gathered your body you gathered 00:12:27.448 --> 00:12:33.870 the whole volume of your mind so what 00:12:30.929 --> 00:12:36.149 the hell are you never even looked at 00:12:33.870 --> 00:12:38.459 isn't it you're making assumptions so 00:12:36.149 --> 00:12:41.458 your personality your ideologies 00:12:38.458 --> 00:12:44.489 everything picked up everything 00:12:41.458 --> 00:12:46.559 accumulated you can accumulate and keep 00:12:44.490 --> 00:12:49.169 it and use it but you can never claim 00:12:46.559 --> 00:12:51.328 it's mind everybody should get this now 00:12:49.169 --> 00:12:53.958 if you don't get it now you'll get it 00:12:51.328 --> 00:12:53.958 from the maggots 00:12:55.610 --> 00:13:01.320 sub-group use you had you had amount of 00:12:58.980 --> 00:13:02.730 sin a moment when you were young when 00:13:01.320 --> 00:13:05.100 you felt that you were instantly 00:13:02.730 --> 00:13:07.710 transformed you don't speak of it much 00:13:05.100 --> 00:13:09.570 but you also you know you also told 00:13:07.710 --> 00:13:14.060 people that you would die at 42 but you 00:13:09.570 --> 00:13:19.890 didn't so I'm sorry to disappoint you 00:13:14.059 --> 00:13:22.199 but that again puts all this realm into 00:13:19.889 --> 00:13:23.909 you know I mean I'm somebody in the 00:13:22.200 --> 00:13:25.920 middle zone people who who know me well 00:13:23.909 --> 00:13:27.779 always tease me about how I try to be a 00:13:25.919 --> 00:13:29.849 rationalist but I always believe in the 00:13:27.779 --> 00:13:32.549 paranormal but you know there is no 00:13:29.850 --> 00:13:33.509 precision to it so how you know how do 00:13:32.549 --> 00:13:35.609 you square with that 00:13:33.509 --> 00:13:38.939 what would your deputies say if you said 00:13:35.610 --> 00:13:43.950 something you know the paranormal is not 00:13:38.940 --> 00:13:45.930 empirical so these are all words we keep 00:13:43.950 --> 00:13:53.430 on inventing more words for all this 00:13:45.929 --> 00:13:55.679 this is just lying in the sense now when 00:13:53.429 --> 00:13:57.750 you talk about past lives present life I 00:13:55.679 --> 00:14:01.469 always tell people do not ever believe 00:13:57.750 --> 00:14:05.190 these things at the same time do not be 00:14:01.470 --> 00:14:08.220 a fool and disbelieve it because belief 00:14:05.190 --> 00:14:09.840 and disbelief means just this you 00:14:08.220 --> 00:14:12.389 believe something or you disbelieve 00:14:09.840 --> 00:14:14.129 something essentially means you are not 00:14:12.389 --> 00:14:16.350 straight enough to admit that you do not 00:14:14.129 --> 00:14:19.169 know you have not understood the 00:14:16.350 --> 00:14:21.170 immensity of I do not know because I do 00:14:19.169 --> 00:14:24.899 not know is it tremendous possibility 00:14:21.169 --> 00:14:27.419 only if you see I do not know the 00:14:24.899 --> 00:14:31.069 possibility of knowing ever arises in 00:14:27.419 --> 00:14:34.469 you so this must be clearly demarcated 00:14:31.070 --> 00:14:37.260 see the moment you say and religious you 00:14:34.470 --> 00:14:38.850 refer to yourself as a believer the 00:14:37.259 --> 00:14:41.370 moment you refer to somebody as 00:14:38.850 --> 00:14:45.420 spiritual you refer to him as a seeker 00:14:41.370 --> 00:14:49.139 who can see only one who is realized 00:14:45.419 --> 00:14:52.409 that he does not know can seek if he 00:14:49.139 --> 00:14:55.370 thinks he knows why will he seek if we 00:14:52.409 --> 00:14:55.370 come to you Javed sir 00:14:59.210 --> 00:15:09.500 now start for seeking Joe it's up you 00:15:05.029 --> 00:15:12.019 have to not be theatrical with me will 00:15:09.500 --> 00:15:17.330 we live in a country yeah of great 00:15:12.019 --> 00:15:20.470 faiths you are part of a creative space 00:15:17.330 --> 00:15:22.040 that very often expresses stories 00:15:20.470 --> 00:15:24.410 through faith 00:15:22.039 --> 00:15:27.319 you're a committed rationalist you know 00:15:24.409 --> 00:15:29.149 if we see the finiteness of faith would 00:15:27.320 --> 00:15:34.330 you accept that there's a finiteness to 00:15:29.149 --> 00:15:36.860 just reason as well first of all I think 00:15:34.330 --> 00:15:40.220 before starting any discussion one 00:15:36.860 --> 00:15:40.789 should always decide on the meaning of 00:15:40.220 --> 00:15:43.610 words 00:15:40.789 --> 00:15:45.949 maybe you mean something by faith and I 00:15:43.610 --> 00:15:48.259 am understanding something else what is 00:15:45.950 --> 00:15:52.970 faith and what is the difference between 00:15:48.259 --> 00:15:55.580 faith and belief I believe I am in Goa I 00:15:52.970 --> 00:15:58.279 believe there is a place called North 00:15:55.580 --> 00:16:00.980 Pole I believe that the two pies a poor 00:15:58.279 --> 00:16:05.569 country I believe that Germany is a rich 00:16:00.980 --> 00:16:08.899 country is it my faith why it is not my 00:16:05.570 --> 00:16:10.700 faith I'll tell you why cuz not by faith 00:16:08.899 --> 00:16:15.919 and white is my belief because it is 00:16:10.700 --> 00:16:21.520 reasonable anything any belief which is 00:16:15.919 --> 00:16:30.259 devoid of logic reason rational evidence 00:16:21.519 --> 00:16:32.960 witness that is faith anything which is 00:16:30.259 --> 00:16:35.480 devoid of all the logic all the reason 00:16:32.960 --> 00:16:39.200 all the ration all the witness all the 00:16:35.480 --> 00:16:40.909 evidence that have failed and I really 00:16:39.200 --> 00:16:42.920 wonder what is the difference between 00:16:40.909 --> 00:16:44.629 faith and his stupidity because that is 00:16:42.919 --> 00:16:46.829 it has property they have the same 00:16:44.629 --> 00:16:51.509 definition 00:16:46.830 --> 00:16:54.690 I am willing to I am willing to accept 00:16:51.509 --> 00:16:59.189 belief but it has to have some rationale 00:16:54.690 --> 00:17:01.740 some reason if you don't have any you 00:16:59.190 --> 00:17:05.490 disarm me from reason logic 00:17:01.740 --> 00:17:09.410 now when you say that whatever mind is 00:17:05.490 --> 00:17:13.410 is accumulated my body is accumulated 00:17:09.410 --> 00:17:16.620 that is not me it is like saying that as 00:17:13.410 --> 00:17:19.679 long as you can peel the onion you are 00:17:16.619 --> 00:17:22.229 not finding the onion Jesus killed our 00:17:19.679 --> 00:17:26.189 onion this accumulation this 00:17:22.230 --> 00:17:29.150 accumulation is me if you eradicate this 00:17:26.189 --> 00:17:33.058 accumulation I don't exist that's all 00:17:29.150 --> 00:17:43.380 Javad sub I think I should respond to 00:17:33.058 --> 00:17:46.009 this okay all right now you being in 00:17:43.380 --> 00:17:48.840 nagpur right now for sure is you believe 00:17:46.009 --> 00:17:52.079 that you being in goa right now is a 00:17:48.839 --> 00:17:53.759 reality you better grasp courage 00:17:52.079 --> 00:17:55.889 you just give me a moment there's a 00:17:53.759 --> 00:17:57.599 reverberation here and B country or each 00:17:55.890 --> 00:18:02.009 other could you just turn the speakers 00:17:57.599 --> 00:18:04.109 towards us or maybe give Satguru G 00:18:02.009 --> 00:18:05.849 another mic because we cannot that I 00:18:04.109 --> 00:18:08.058 can't understand him I can't even hear 00:18:05.849 --> 00:18:08.058 me 00:18:10.309 --> 00:18:21.919 I I don't know about the battle between 00:18:18.529 --> 00:18:24.339 faith and reason but wit certainly has 00:18:21.920 --> 00:18:26.750 its place in society 00:18:24.339 --> 00:18:28.250 probably the microphones are arranged in 00:18:26.750 --> 00:18:35.869 such a way because anyway you and if you 00:18:28.250 --> 00:18:44.390 hear you may understand thanks for the 00:18:35.869 --> 00:18:47.319 compliments of guys three yeah yeah so 00:18:44.390 --> 00:18:47.320 it will have come on man 00:18:58.849 --> 00:19:11.439 so now I'll repeat for you you believing 00:19:07.039 --> 00:19:15.319 that you're in Nagpur is for sure belief 00:19:11.440 --> 00:19:17.029 but you're in Goa is a reality whether 00:19:15.319 --> 00:19:19.579 you believe it or you don't believe it 00:19:17.029 --> 00:19:23.690 that's how it is so there is a 00:19:19.579 --> 00:19:27.970 difference between reality and belief if 00:19:23.690 --> 00:19:30.500 you think whatever you believe is true I 00:19:27.970 --> 00:19:33.170 want you to understand we can make you 00:19:30.500 --> 00:19:35.059 believe just about anything if you work 00:19:33.170 --> 00:19:36.950 hard enough on you we can make you 00:19:35.059 --> 00:19:39.289 believe anything and when you believe 00:19:36.950 --> 00:19:41.809 just about anything that is what we are 00:19:39.289 --> 00:19:43.899 referring to as fate or it's passing off 00:19:41.809 --> 00:19:46.899 as religion or faith will come to this 00:19:43.900 --> 00:19:46.900 now 00:19:55.329 --> 00:20:07.359 no let's let me be the moderator one 00:19:58.269 --> 00:20:11.769 point nobody watchin I will I'll be 00:20:07.359 --> 00:20:14.649 wrong maybe wrong logic the people in 00:20:11.769 --> 00:20:16.299 the audience may I read it shall not be 00:20:14.650 --> 00:20:19.440 corrected because it will not be a 00:20:16.299 --> 00:20:22.450 stolen energy may I retain the esthetics 00:20:19.440 --> 00:20:24.490 may I retain the aesthetics of this 00:20:22.450 --> 00:20:25.779 session I really don't need anybody 00:20:24.490 --> 00:20:27.759 telling me that I'm not going to let him 00:20:25.779 --> 00:20:32.410 talk I will let him talk can we please 00:20:27.759 --> 00:20:35.259 keep the aesthetics of this alive so so 00:20:32.410 --> 00:20:37.810 this whole presumption and the way this 00:20:35.259 --> 00:20:39.910 is going is coming from a certain 00:20:37.809 --> 00:20:42.789 fundamental presumption because even 00:20:39.910 --> 00:20:45.009 when I met Javed Sahab last time he was 00:20:42.789 --> 00:20:48.579 telling me that some guru told him not 00:20:45.009 --> 00:20:51.940 to use his mind I do not know which go 00:20:48.579 --> 00:21:03.849 to set this one thing is clear the 00:20:51.940 --> 00:21:08.620 advice has been taken seriously never 00:21:03.849 --> 00:21:10.779 taken any I have I have not taken any 00:21:08.619 --> 00:21:13.000 guru seriously I promise you that in the 00:21:10.779 --> 00:21:15.490 rich tradition in the rich tradition of 00:21:13.000 --> 00:21:17.230 the argumentative Indians yeah it 00:21:15.490 --> 00:21:20.200 remained with the argument it never got 00:21:17.230 --> 00:21:21.880 personal both of you so I just wanted to 00:21:20.200 --> 00:21:25.029 come back job itself to this whole issue 00:21:21.880 --> 00:21:28.260 of of the finiteness of a reason you 00:21:25.029 --> 00:21:31.000 know we just saw Ramanujan for instance 00:21:28.259 --> 00:21:33.910 he was intuitive he didn't know how he 00:21:31.000 --> 00:21:37.210 arrived at at that Matt but he arrived 00:21:33.910 --> 00:21:39.009 at it I have absolutely no argument with 00:21:37.210 --> 00:21:41.710 the fact that reason is the highest 00:21:39.009 --> 00:21:43.779 condition of man as we understand it but 00:21:41.710 --> 00:21:47.500 is there not space for something beyond 00:21:43.779 --> 00:21:49.809 I empirical understanding course but 00:21:47.500 --> 00:21:52.359 there is no hero around it there is 00:21:49.809 --> 00:21:54.369 nothing like it spiritual about it when 00:21:52.359 --> 00:21:56.589 you look at the fan and that the fan is 00:21:54.369 --> 00:21:58.659 running on full speed you can't see the 00:21:56.589 --> 00:22:00.730 blades it doesn't mean there are no 00:21:58.660 --> 00:22:03.820 trains you know when you think very 00:22:00.730 --> 00:22:06.250 quickly you may not see the reason but 00:22:03.819 --> 00:22:08.220 when you will sit back and analyze it if 00:22:06.250 --> 00:22:13.200 the conclusion is right then there is 00:22:08.220 --> 00:22:15.329 a logical step behind it you have not 00:22:13.200 --> 00:22:18.029 seen it at that moment because your 00:22:15.329 --> 00:22:20.519 conscious mind is not the only mind you 00:22:18.029 --> 00:22:23.788 have many parts of the mind you lose a 00:22:20.519 --> 00:22:25.440 key and you try to remember you can't 00:22:23.788 --> 00:22:28.319 and then you're talking to somebody else 00:22:25.440 --> 00:22:30.450 and some certainly you remember where 00:22:28.319 --> 00:22:33.569 you have kept the key because a part of 00:22:30.450 --> 00:22:36.419 your brain was working on it so brain is 00:22:33.569 --> 00:22:39.569 a very complicated machine mind is the 00:22:36.419 --> 00:22:43.288 most sophisticated computer on in this 00:22:39.569 --> 00:22:45.210 universe at the moment so you have to 00:22:43.288 --> 00:22:47.460 understand the functioning if Ramanujam 00:22:45.210 --> 00:22:49.740 understood it he understood it in a 00:22:47.460 --> 00:22:51.509 language which he knew why he did not 00:22:49.740 --> 00:22:56.130 understand in Chinese though he proved 00:22:51.509 --> 00:22:59.308 that is not possible symmetry what will 00:22:56.130 --> 00:23:03.360 come will come from your mind you are 00:22:59.308 --> 00:23:06.298 nothing but your mind and if that is 00:23:03.359 --> 00:23:08.459 really captured you don't exist but 00:23:06.298 --> 00:23:11.359 Ramanujan actually believed that the 00:23:08.460 --> 00:23:14.548 goddess was giving him that intuition 00:23:11.359 --> 00:23:15.869 how do you reconcile that would you say 00:23:14.548 --> 00:23:17.879 that he was something I mean after all 00:23:15.869 --> 00:23:20.689 he was a human being so what he wouldn't 00:23:17.880 --> 00:23:20.690 be right all the time 00:23:26.950 --> 00:23:33.410 sub-group before I come back to you 00:23:28.910 --> 00:23:35.540 Javed 7 another function of faith is you 00:23:33.410 --> 00:23:37.400 know in its in its refined form not as 00:23:35.539 --> 00:23:40.569 religion not as public religion but as 00:23:37.400 --> 00:23:44.060 faith can sometimes be the impulse for 00:23:40.569 --> 00:23:48.169 also the most noble of human endeavor 00:23:44.059 --> 00:23:50.389 whether we are about it the faith can 00:23:48.170 --> 00:23:52.430 make you do wonderful things and the 00:23:50.390 --> 00:23:55.160 worst thing possible these society 00:23:52.430 --> 00:23:56.420 embers are people of faith if they would 00:23:55.160 --> 00:23:59.029 have been reasonable they wouldn't have 00:23:56.420 --> 00:24:03.710 done that but but equally Jove itself 00:23:59.029 --> 00:24:07.069 faith is a blind power faith paralyzes 00:24:03.710 --> 00:24:09.319 your mind and now you are capable of 00:24:07.069 --> 00:24:11.480 doing something exceptionally good and 00:24:09.319 --> 00:24:14.379 something exceptionally bad but you are 00:24:11.480 --> 00:24:17.150 out of control you can go either way 00:24:14.380 --> 00:24:19.790 what about the ultra rationalist the 00:24:17.150 --> 00:24:21.140 Communists the Stalinist regimes no no 00:24:19.789 --> 00:24:25.490 no they are not rational is there 00:24:21.140 --> 00:24:30.350 communism they have a fit they believe 00:24:25.490 --> 00:24:32.269 in communism think I am not only against 00:24:30.349 --> 00:24:38.259 religion with spiritualism which is the 00:24:32.269 --> 00:24:40.759 debris of religion I am I am again v if 00:24:38.259 --> 00:24:43.190 communism is your faith then you are 00:24:40.759 --> 00:24:45.529 half bad and the religious person that's 00:24:43.190 --> 00:24:47.240 well quit so so what do you live with 00:24:45.529 --> 00:24:49.789 then if you don't live with a belief 00:24:47.240 --> 00:24:51.140 system what do you live with right you 00:24:49.789 --> 00:24:54.879 know you're talking of extremities but 00:24:51.140 --> 00:24:54.880 how about how about common sense 00:24:55.099 --> 00:25:06.669 [Applause] 00:25:02.970 --> 00:25:08.650 it'll do for the moment I'm going to 00:25:06.670 --> 00:25:10.769 come back Javed sir with a scientific 00:25:08.650 --> 00:25:13.330 question for you which is about stories 00:25:10.769 --> 00:25:15.549 human-beings need stories to live with 00:25:13.329 --> 00:25:17.889 you know we've met a lot of scientists a 00:25:15.549 --> 00:25:21.399 lot of astrophysicists even in science 00:25:17.890 --> 00:25:22.540 there is the idea of the story I don't 00:25:21.400 --> 00:25:25.240 know much about it and if you question 00:25:22.539 --> 00:25:27.789 me too much I'll falter but you know the 00:25:25.240 --> 00:25:29.740 universe professor Gunnison was telling 00:25:27.789 --> 00:25:32.019 us that we understand only 5% of the 00:25:29.740 --> 00:25:34.269 universe there's 95% we don't understand 00:25:32.019 --> 00:25:36.250 and we both met Richard Dawkins in 00:25:34.269 --> 00:25:38.230 Jaipur earlier this year and he was 00:25:36.250 --> 00:25:40.779 suggesting that outside of this universe 00:25:38.230 --> 00:25:42.849 there could be multiverses now that is 00:25:40.779 --> 00:25:45.069 not something we know it is a belief in 00:25:42.849 --> 00:25:47.439 in something that is not a believed it 00:25:45.069 --> 00:25:49.149 is a guess maybe maybe not know it's a 00:25:47.440 --> 00:25:50.650 story you live with why can't we live 00:25:49.150 --> 00:25:53.200 with other stories in the meantime which 00:25:50.650 --> 00:25:57.670 give people a sense of such in their 00:25:53.200 --> 00:25:59.529 life a sense of solace you see what is 00:25:57.670 --> 00:26:02.019 the problem that as long as you have 00:25:59.529 --> 00:26:04.420 curiosity as long as and he said very 00:26:02.019 --> 00:26:07.779 rightly and I totally agree with him 00:26:04.420 --> 00:26:09.490 that you should be humble enough to 00:26:07.779 --> 00:26:12.099 accept that there are many things that 00:26:09.490 --> 00:26:14.500 you don't know and only then you 00:26:12.099 --> 00:26:16.990 research what is wrong with religions 00:26:14.500 --> 00:26:18.940 that you know everything they can tell 00:26:16.990 --> 00:26:21.819 you how to make a universal for easy 00:26:18.940 --> 00:26:24.190 lessons they can they will tell you 00:26:21.819 --> 00:26:26.679 whatever you were before you were born 00:26:24.190 --> 00:26:29.110 and where will you go after your death 00:26:26.680 --> 00:26:32.310 and so on so they have all the answers 00:26:29.109 --> 00:26:32.309 that's it the problem 00:26:37.519 --> 00:26:41.879 Sakura gee that's so that's you know 00:26:40.079 --> 00:26:44.339 when you said that essentially the 00:26:41.880 --> 00:26:48.060 spiritual person is a seeker why is it 00:26:44.339 --> 00:26:49.470 that gurus give the answers I don't know 00:26:48.059 --> 00:26:50.940 but you guru gave an answer I haven't 00:26:49.470 --> 00:26:52.950 met one like that if you've met they're 00:26:50.940 --> 00:26:55.740 all the wrong ones I couldn't help it 00:26:52.950 --> 00:26:59.400 no go to ever give an answer gurus only 00:26:55.740 --> 00:27:02.730 give methods to deepen your process I 00:26:59.400 --> 00:27:06.509 asked you what your method was so now 00:27:02.730 --> 00:27:09.000 we're talking about thought and the 00:27:06.509 --> 00:27:11.879 event itself is called think so let me 00:27:09.000 --> 00:27:15.569 let's just look at this your thought 00:27:11.880 --> 00:27:17.730 your thought is essentially coming from 00:27:15.569 --> 00:27:20.369 the information that is already there in 00:27:17.730 --> 00:27:23.759 your mind the data that is there in your 00:27:20.369 --> 00:27:26.369 mind it's complex but it is within the 00:27:23.759 --> 00:27:29.309 limited data that you have how did you 00:27:26.369 --> 00:27:32.339 gather this data this data you gathered 00:27:29.309 --> 00:27:35.099 through the agencies of five senses by 00:27:32.339 --> 00:27:36.929 seeing by hearing smelling tasting and 00:27:35.099 --> 00:27:40.079 touching this is the way it's gone into 00:27:36.930 --> 00:27:42.269 you these are the five instruments which 00:27:40.079 --> 00:27:44.279 are taking in all the data in your 00:27:42.269 --> 00:27:46.859 wakefulness and sleep this data is being 00:27:44.279 --> 00:27:50.069 gathered all the time even in your sleep 00:27:46.859 --> 00:27:51.839 in deep sleep if I say something we can 00:27:50.069 --> 00:27:54.210 hypnotize you and make you remember that 00:27:51.839 --> 00:27:56.789 actually because even in sleep you're 00:27:54.210 --> 00:27:59.460 recording but it is only through these 00:27:56.789 --> 00:28:04.349 five senses these five senses are not 00:27:59.460 --> 00:28:08.039 reliable in the sense if I touch this 00:28:04.349 --> 00:28:09.199 table it would my hand will tell me it's 00:28:08.039 --> 00:28:12.240 cool 00:28:09.200 --> 00:28:12.750 but if I lowered my body temperature and 00:28:12.240 --> 00:28:14.910 touch it 00:28:12.750 --> 00:28:17.190 my hand will tell me it's wrong so it 00:28:14.910 --> 00:28:19.529 doesn't say anything about that it only 00:28:17.190 --> 00:28:22.620 tells me the information that is 00:28:19.529 --> 00:28:24.750 necessary for my survival if survival is 00:28:22.619 --> 00:28:26.669 all you're seeking these five senses are 00:28:24.750 --> 00:28:29.880 okay but if you're seeking something 00:28:26.670 --> 00:28:32.220 beyond survival you need to expand the 00:28:29.880 --> 00:28:34.680 dimension of your perception so the 00:28:32.220 --> 00:28:37.019 whole spiritual process is about how to 00:28:34.680 --> 00:28:39.660 expand your perception because only what 00:28:37.019 --> 00:28:42.569 you perceive is life rest is just 00:28:39.660 --> 00:28:43.350 imagination if you want to be in touch 00:28:42.569 --> 00:28:45.559 with reality 00:28:43.349 --> 00:28:47.819 you have to enhance your perception and 00:28:45.559 --> 00:28:49.769 just assuming 00:28:47.819 --> 00:28:53.819 what see this thing happened across the 00:28:49.769 --> 00:28:56.278 history when people believed the planet 00:28:53.819 --> 00:28:56.788 is flat somebody said it's around he got 00:28:56.278 --> 00:29:01.319 killed 00:28:56.788 --> 00:29:04.138 okay now everybody thought they can only 00:29:01.319 --> 00:29:05.118 walk somebody says I can fly he was 00:29:04.138 --> 00:29:07.378 almost killed 00:29:05.118 --> 00:29:10.618 so this has happened continuously 00:29:07.378 --> 00:29:13.589 because people believing whatever I do 00:29:10.618 --> 00:29:22.709 not know cannot exist is the crown of 00:29:13.589 --> 00:29:24.569 ignorance Jove it's up that's that's a 00:29:22.710 --> 00:29:26.999 Wally that I hand to you you know that 00:29:24.569 --> 00:29:29.038 at every lat every point in history the 00:29:26.999 --> 00:29:31.499 limits of reality has been pushed by 00:29:29.038 --> 00:29:33.658 those who imagine or have faith in 00:29:31.499 --> 00:29:35.249 something that doesn't yet exist not at 00:29:33.659 --> 00:29:37.679 all not at all 00:29:35.249 --> 00:29:40.440 first of all it's not I mean the first 00:29:37.679 --> 00:29:42.809 thing if spiritualist will do will try 00:29:40.440 --> 00:29:46.649 to shake your confidence in the five 00:29:42.808 --> 00:29:51.358 senses that you have only then he can 00:29:46.648 --> 00:29:53.908 control you now if you think that you 00:29:51.358 --> 00:29:56.788 will believe him any other thing then 00:29:53.909 --> 00:29:59.940 take a person do an operation on him 00:29:56.788 --> 00:30:01.528 disconnect him with his brain and then 00:29:59.940 --> 00:30:05.190 let us see how he expands its 00:30:01.528 --> 00:30:08.729 personality whatever expansion happens 00:30:05.190 --> 00:30:11.278 happens in your mind and you cannot 00:30:08.729 --> 00:30:14.069 undermine it and whoever suggests that 00:30:11.278 --> 00:30:16.710 that is to be undermined is playing the 00:30:14.069 --> 00:30:18.569 very dangerous game with you that's what 00:30:16.710 --> 00:30:20.970 then you will not have any discretion 00:30:18.569 --> 00:30:22.229 how will you decide whatever whatever 00:30:20.970 --> 00:30:24.808 he's saying is right or wrong and 00:30:22.229 --> 00:30:26.580 whatever he's saying is you here using 00:30:24.808 --> 00:30:28.149 his brain he doesn't want you to use you 00:30:26.579 --> 00:30:31.899 obey 00:30:28.150 --> 00:30:34.420 from there this concept um have it come 00:30:31.900 --> 00:30:38.080 from well from their testimony 00:30:34.420 --> 00:30:39.550 it has come from the mind even if you 00:30:38.079 --> 00:30:41.679 think that the mind is not everything 00:30:39.549 --> 00:30:43.480 that too has come from the mind if you 00:30:41.680 --> 00:30:47.799 don't just mind how do you trust this 00:30:43.480 --> 00:30:51.099 part good job it's up yeah you said the 00:30:47.799 --> 00:30:52.269 five senses as a writer as an artist as 00:30:51.099 --> 00:30:53.799 a human being yeah 00:30:52.269 --> 00:30:56.170 don't you sometimes have a sixth sense 00:30:53.799 --> 00:30:58.839 about something please understand you 00:30:56.170 --> 00:31:01.210 see there are like between countries 00:30:58.839 --> 00:31:03.009 there are no man lands between India and 00:31:01.210 --> 00:31:06.370 Pakistan between India and China that 00:31:03.009 --> 00:31:08.950 Roman family in you between your 00:31:06.369 --> 00:31:11.889 subconscious and between your conscious 00:31:08.950 --> 00:31:15.069 mind there is a Roman land and what 00:31:11.890 --> 00:31:19.360 happens that if you rely only on your 00:31:15.069 --> 00:31:22.240 current thinking on your mind a brain is 00:31:19.359 --> 00:31:24.579 also like how your mind your conscious 00:31:22.240 --> 00:31:26.259 mind is your living room but then you 00:31:24.579 --> 00:31:28.449 have other rooms you have a taste 00:31:26.259 --> 00:31:32.140 you have bedrooms you have basements 00:31:28.450 --> 00:31:34.930 within your brain then you relax and you 00:31:32.140 --> 00:31:37.990 allow the other part of your mind to 00:31:34.930 --> 00:31:41.440 take over then your conscious mind and 00:31:37.990 --> 00:31:44.529 your subconscious they work together in 00:31:41.440 --> 00:31:46.180 partnership and ultimately something 00:31:44.529 --> 00:31:48.399 comes which comes from you move comes 00:31:46.180 --> 00:31:50.710 from your mind but from that part of 00:31:48.400 --> 00:31:53.620 mind which more often than not you are 00:31:50.710 --> 00:31:55.279 not using that's all but it is the mind 00:31:53.619 --> 00:32:01.089 ultimately 00:31:55.279 --> 00:32:05.240 [Applause] 00:32:01.089 --> 00:32:07.399 now Kenneth we're talking about stories 00:32:05.240 --> 00:32:09.620 can I say his story stories a Nutella 00:32:07.400 --> 00:32:13.610 story yeah sure please but just speak a 00:32:09.619 --> 00:32:18.109 bit louder yes on a certain day a lady 00:32:13.609 --> 00:32:21.589 went to sleep in her sleep she had a 00:32:18.109 --> 00:32:24.500 dream in her dream she saw a hunk of a 00:32:21.589 --> 00:32:27.169 man standing there staring at her he 00:32:24.500 --> 00:32:29.808 started coming closer and closer he came 00:32:27.170 --> 00:32:36.259 so close she could even feel his breath 00:32:29.808 --> 00:32:40.789 and she trembled not in fear and then 00:32:36.259 --> 00:32:47.299 she asked what will you do to me the man 00:32:40.789 --> 00:32:49.970 said well lady it's your dream now what 00:32:47.299 --> 00:32:53.659 happens in your mind is just essentially 00:32:49.970 --> 00:32:57.620 you dream just being in a constant state 00:32:53.660 --> 00:33:03.040 of flowing thoughts all the time 24 00:32:57.619 --> 00:33:07.189 hours thoughts are flowing this is not 00:33:03.039 --> 00:33:10.960 this does not signify intelligence this 00:33:07.190 --> 00:33:16.160 suggests diarrhea mental diarrhea 00:33:10.960 --> 00:33:19.940 constantly it is on and on and on now if 00:33:16.160 --> 00:33:23.269 one has made an effort one has strived 00:33:19.940 --> 00:33:27.470 to look beyond the firmament of the mind 00:33:23.269 --> 00:33:29.450 one would know other dimensions simply 00:33:27.470 --> 00:33:32.779 denying that nothing like that exists 00:33:29.450 --> 00:33:35.630 because I do not know it is I don't know 00:33:32.779 --> 00:33:37.369 he doesn't need comments security but 00:33:35.630 --> 00:33:39.320 you just said that the five senses are 00:33:37.369 --> 00:33:41.689 unreliable but just to come back to that 00:33:39.319 --> 00:33:45.289 license is being unreliable let me come 00:33:41.690 --> 00:33:49.340 to this right now what your vision 00:33:45.289 --> 00:33:50.269 visual sense understands his light many 00:33:49.339 --> 00:33:52.689 of the creatures on the planet 00:33:50.269 --> 00:33:54.769 understand it as darkness isn't it so 00:33:52.690 --> 00:33:56.960 you sit with an owl and start an 00:33:54.769 --> 00:33:58.730 argument as to which is light and which 00:33:56.960 --> 00:34:01.970 is darkness you will end up with an 00:33:58.730 --> 00:34:03.558 endless argument so who is right you 00:34:01.970 --> 00:34:05.390 insist you're right but that is the 00:34:03.558 --> 00:34:06.950 whole problem people insisting that 00:34:05.390 --> 00:34:09.769 their right is the whole problem on the 00:34:06.950 --> 00:34:10.990 planet what's a guru if if the whole 00:34:09.769 --> 00:34:13.780 point of 00:34:10.989 --> 00:34:16.779 your technology is to make people actual 00:34:13.780 --> 00:34:19.090 eyes themselves why in the modern world 00:34:16.780 --> 00:34:22.179 is there still cult creation why does 00:34:19.090 --> 00:34:24.760 your photograph adorn every devotees who 00:34:22.179 --> 00:34:26.710 or every practitioners home why do they 00:34:24.760 --> 00:34:30.940 not just take the technology and become 00:34:26.710 --> 00:34:36.610 independent spirits themselves see you 00:34:30.940 --> 00:34:38.849 don't mind if you don't mind if a rock 00:34:36.610 --> 00:34:43.929 stars picture is in somebody's house 00:34:38.849 --> 00:34:47.289 okay but people he lives a bad life 00:34:43.929 --> 00:34:50.440 he is drugged out but you don't mind if 00:34:47.289 --> 00:34:53.230 a film stars picture is there it doesn't 00:34:50.440 --> 00:34:55.030 matter if the 12 girls from the 00:34:53.230 --> 00:34:58.030 Kingfisher calender don't your house you 00:34:55.030 --> 00:34:59.800 do not matter but you have something 00:34:58.030 --> 00:35:02.820 with me what is the problem 00:34:59.800 --> 00:35:02.820 I'll tell you what the rock 00:35:08.969 --> 00:35:13.779 yeah I'll tell you I'll job itself I'll 00:35:12.460 --> 00:35:15.460 come to you but I'll tell you what my 00:35:13.780 --> 00:35:17.230 problem with that is is that by and 00:35:15.460 --> 00:35:20.050 large what Javed Sahab was saying 00:35:17.230 --> 00:35:21.699 earlier is that with the following of a 00:35:20.050 --> 00:35:24.460 guru even if the Guru doesn't want it 00:35:21.699 --> 00:35:27.369 there is a giving up of oneself there's 00:35:24.460 --> 00:35:30.039 a subjugation of one's own thinking to a 00:35:27.369 --> 00:35:32.049 you know to a guru and that takes people 00:35:30.039 --> 00:35:33.309 sometimes to very dark places you know 00:35:32.050 --> 00:35:34.780 you're willing to kill for a guru you 00:35:33.309 --> 00:35:40.090 may not be willing to kill for the film 00:35:34.780 --> 00:35:41.650 star but they do they don't didn't you 00:35:40.090 --> 00:35:54.280 come in Tamil not one see people will 00:35:41.650 --> 00:35:58.059 kill for the film star you know if a 00:35:54.280 --> 00:36:00.930 film star is having a wonderful time 00:35:58.059 --> 00:36:03.039 you don't resent if a rock star is 00:36:00.929 --> 00:36:05.469 having a wonderful time I mean he's 00:36:03.039 --> 00:36:06.099 doing what in his vocation in his 00:36:05.469 --> 00:36:08.559 profession 00:36:06.099 --> 00:36:10.119 you don't reason if a guru is going put 00:36:08.559 --> 00:36:12.449 in his profession is having a good time 00:36:10.119 --> 00:36:14.319 why should you return it some not 00:36:12.449 --> 00:36:18.429 definitely what's your problem 00:36:14.320 --> 00:36:20.740 sure now this is this is the operation 00:36:18.429 --> 00:36:25.219 of rationalism the equation should hold 00:36:20.739 --> 00:36:31.008 good they then have good time job 00:36:25.219 --> 00:36:33.659 [Applause] 00:36:31.009 --> 00:36:35.548 Sakuragi one quick question I think my 00:36:33.659 --> 00:36:38.938 colleague is going to ring the bell any 00:36:35.548 --> 00:36:41.068 minute you know I saw a film recently in 00:36:38.938 --> 00:36:43.170 America made by a young man and it's 00:36:41.068 --> 00:36:46.018 called the truce - the true story of a 00:36:43.170 --> 00:36:48.358 fake guru he dressed himself up as a 00:36:46.018 --> 00:36:50.818 guru and he went and he met a whole lot 00:36:48.358 --> 00:36:53.219 of people he listened to their sorrows 00:36:50.818 --> 00:36:55.438 he listened to their stories he put 00:36:53.219 --> 00:36:57.659 three pictures in front of them he 00:36:55.438 --> 00:37:00.058 brought them into this sense of ecstasy 00:36:57.659 --> 00:37:01.798 inhalation and they began to transform 00:37:00.059 --> 00:37:04.798 themselves they completely believed in 00:37:01.798 --> 00:37:06.748 him and they began to follow him they 00:37:04.798 --> 00:37:09.150 felt that they arrived at a safe harbor 00:37:06.748 --> 00:37:11.488 at the end of the film and they're being 00:37:09.150 --> 00:37:12.269 filmed through this whole journey at the 00:37:11.489 --> 00:37:14.789 end of it 00:37:12.268 --> 00:37:16.139 no no feels himself you know about it he 00:37:14.789 --> 00:37:19.679 reveals himself he's just a young man 00:37:16.139 --> 00:37:23.458 from Canada from Phoenix what is the 00:37:19.679 --> 00:37:25.949 answer to that see this is why I want 00:37:23.458 --> 00:37:30.958 you to make a distinction between faith 00:37:25.949 --> 00:37:34.709 and a spiritual process faith is just a 00:37:30.958 --> 00:37:37.498 set of beliefs spiritual process begins 00:37:34.708 --> 00:37:39.469 only when you realize that you do not 00:37:37.498 --> 00:37:43.018 know the fundamentals of your existence 00:37:39.469 --> 00:37:45.958 and seeking begins when a seeking begins 00:37:43.018 --> 00:37:47.998 and you find your sense organs and your 00:37:45.958 --> 00:37:49.798 logic only takes you to a certain point 00:37:47.998 --> 00:37:52.558 and it's not willing to help you beyond 00:37:49.798 --> 00:37:54.389 that then when you come to your dead end 00:37:52.559 --> 00:37:56.429 you know there is something beyond but 00:37:54.389 --> 00:37:59.248 you're at a dead end then you will want 00:37:56.429 --> 00:38:01.318 a normal process so then somebody who 00:37:59.248 --> 00:38:04.649 has experienced it will offer a process 00:38:01.318 --> 00:38:06.568 this is all it is now in society it 00:38:04.650 --> 00:38:09.028 might have fire found all kinds of 00:38:06.568 --> 00:38:13.429 distortions you picking up a bad apple 00:38:09.028 --> 00:38:15.989 and talking about apples Satguru 00:38:13.429 --> 00:38:17.880 consumption in this universe in this 00:38:15.989 --> 00:38:20.338 earth is really becoming something 00:38:17.880 --> 00:38:22.679 unsustainable what kind of spirituality 00:38:20.338 --> 00:38:24.838 is it that does not talk about the 00:38:22.679 --> 00:38:27.150 finite end of consumption you know even 00:38:24.838 --> 00:38:29.429 as a even as a method even as a process 00:38:27.150 --> 00:38:33.150 that is not part of Asia foundation at 00:38:29.429 --> 00:38:36.568 all see we are always trying to curtail 00:38:33.150 --> 00:38:38.639 human aspirations it'll never work if I 00:38:36.568 --> 00:38:40.099 tell somebody don't smoke don't do this 00:38:38.639 --> 00:38:41.690 don't do that they will not do 00:38:40.099 --> 00:38:43.099 they'll anyway continue to do it or 00:38:41.690 --> 00:38:46.338 other kinds of Campbell's compulsions 00:38:43.099 --> 00:38:48.739 will take them over but if you teach 00:38:46.338 --> 00:38:51.078 them a method through which they're able 00:38:48.739 --> 00:38:53.838 to manage the chemistry of who they are 00:38:51.079 --> 00:38:56.028 today there is substantial medical and 00:38:53.838 --> 00:38:58.068 scientific evidence it is no more belief 00:38:56.028 --> 00:39:01.608 system there is substantial scientific 00:38:58.068 --> 00:39:03.170 and medical evidence today research has 00:39:01.608 --> 00:39:04.909 gone into this University of California 00:39:03.170 --> 00:39:07.099 has done an enormous research and the 00:39:04.909 --> 00:39:09.170 simple Shambo Muhammad are the basic 00:39:07.099 --> 00:39:11.479 practice that we teach three months of 00:39:09.170 --> 00:39:13.670 practice you're the neuronal 00:39:11.478 --> 00:39:15.588 regeneration rejuvenation in your brain 00:39:13.670 --> 00:39:18.650 is two hundred and forty-one percent 00:39:15.588 --> 00:39:20.599 more than the average okay there any 00:39:18.650 --> 00:39:23.749 number of things like this now the 00:39:20.599 --> 00:39:25.880 chemical soup that you are you can 00:39:23.748 --> 00:39:28.939 either make it very blissful or 00:39:25.880 --> 00:39:31.309 miserable so if you are blissful by your 00:39:28.940 --> 00:39:34.278 own nature then all the compulsiveness 00:39:31.309 --> 00:39:36.349 will naturally drop whether you're going 00:39:34.278 --> 00:39:38.059 shopping or you're digging up the planet 00:39:36.349 --> 00:39:40.729 or you seeking something else 00:39:38.059 --> 00:39:43.579 essentially it is just this a human 00:39:40.728 --> 00:39:45.708 being is what longing to be a human 00:39:43.579 --> 00:39:47.028 being is longing to be something more 00:39:45.708 --> 00:39:49.608 than what he is right now 00:39:47.028 --> 00:39:51.768 but if that more happens he wants more 00:39:49.608 --> 00:39:54.708 if you really look at it a human being 00:39:51.768 --> 00:39:57.048 cannot settle unless he has all of it if 00:39:54.708 --> 00:39:58.848 you want all of it approaching it 00:39:57.048 --> 00:40:01.190 through physical means is a hopeless 00:39:58.849 --> 00:40:03.619 means the design is fine but the method 00:40:01.190 --> 00:40:05.509 is hopeless so spiritual process means 00:40:03.619 --> 00:40:09.469 you have offered him the right method 00:40:05.509 --> 00:40:12.318 right process for the same design job 00:40:09.469 --> 00:40:14.829 it's a view on jealousy I really find it 00:40:12.318 --> 00:40:17.690 highly amusing it's very interesting 00:40:14.829 --> 00:40:20.209 that it is in religion it is in 00:40:17.690 --> 00:40:22.818 spirituality the moment they find 00:40:20.208 --> 00:40:26.629 something in science which is compatible 00:40:22.818 --> 00:40:28.579 they start respecting science they said 00:40:26.630 --> 00:40:31.369 look now even the science has accepted 00:40:28.579 --> 00:40:34.670 it but the moment science is opposing 00:40:31.369 --> 00:40:38.059 them then it is not credible at all and 00:40:34.670 --> 00:40:40.699 it is the history there was a question 00:40:38.059 --> 00:40:43.190 which I missed that time we have to 00:40:40.699 --> 00:40:45.048 understand through spiritualism that why 00:40:43.190 --> 00:40:48.949 we are in this universe what are we 00:40:45.048 --> 00:40:50.268 doing here why have we come here I don't 00:40:48.949 --> 00:40:52.920 want to 00:40:50.268 --> 00:40:55.139 commend about anybody else's presence 00:40:52.920 --> 00:40:57.088 but guru ji I know why I'm in this 00:40:55.139 --> 00:41:00.768 universe and the reason is unprintable 00:40:57.088 --> 00:41:06.210 and the reason is unprintable offensive 00:41:00.768 --> 00:41:10.048 it is a pompous question that why I am 00:41:06.210 --> 00:41:13.289 in this universe it is a pompous 00:41:10.048 --> 00:41:14.880 question what I am doing here have you 00:41:13.289 --> 00:41:17.519 ever thought of a mosquito 00:41:14.880 --> 00:41:24.210 why did mosquito is here in this world 00:41:17.518 --> 00:41:27.088 why this porch is here tell it as far as 00:41:24.210 --> 00:41:29.999 life quality is concerned there is no 00:41:27.088 --> 00:41:32.639 difference between a Roden and a human 00:41:29.998 --> 00:41:35.608 being between a mosquito and a human 00:41:32.639 --> 00:41:37.828 being the only difference is the mind 00:41:35.608 --> 00:41:38.569 and this is the difference they want to 00:41:37.829 --> 00:41:49.410 eradicate 00:41:38.570 --> 00:41:53.650 [Applause] 00:41:49.409 --> 00:41:56.440 obviously this has no relevance to 00:41:53.650 --> 00:42:03.160 whatever I'm speaking it looks like it's 00:41:56.440 --> 00:42:05.588 not even being heard so the thing is the 00:42:03.159 --> 00:42:10.420 significant aspect of that the 00:42:05.588 --> 00:42:13.000 significant aspect of human life is that 00:42:10.420 --> 00:42:15.750 human life is replete with possibilities 00:42:13.000 --> 00:42:19.088 which other creatures are not capable of 00:42:15.750 --> 00:42:22.030 every other creature on this planet is 00:42:19.088 --> 00:42:24.250 fulfilled when its survival process is 00:42:22.030 --> 00:42:26.530 fulfilled there is something about a 00:42:24.250 --> 00:42:29.170 human being that it does not settle with 00:42:26.530 --> 00:42:31.560 survival what is called as human begins 00:42:29.170 --> 00:42:35.220 only after survival is taken care off 00:42:31.559 --> 00:42:38.259 so the longing to be an endless 00:42:35.219 --> 00:42:42.338 expansion cannot be settled by the 00:42:38.260 --> 00:42:43.990 simplicity of thought thought is just a 00:42:42.338 --> 00:42:47.440 product of the data that we have 00:42:43.989 --> 00:42:49.479 gathered and whatever you may know it is 00:42:47.440 --> 00:42:52.929 still too limited that much is 00:42:49.480 --> 00:42:56.139 established by science so about science 00:42:52.929 --> 00:42:57.368 and spiritual process ever being head-on 00:42:56.139 --> 00:42:59.679 with each other such a thing has never 00:42:57.369 --> 00:43:01.510 happened it is just that you have not 00:42:59.679 --> 00:43:04.480 been exposed to the right things as I 00:43:01.510 --> 00:43:06.369 said earlier you eat a bad apple and you 00:43:04.480 --> 00:43:10.059 make conclusions about all apples it's 00:43:06.369 --> 00:43:13.750 an unfortunate reality of one's life I'm 00:43:10.059 --> 00:43:16.299 going to have to end it at that my 00:43:13.750 --> 00:43:17.949 takeaway from this are two things one 00:43:16.300 --> 00:43:20.950 that in India we've had a glorious 00:43:17.949 --> 00:43:23.319 tradition of the argumentation between 00:43:20.949 --> 00:43:26.608 men of faith and men of reason there 00:43:23.320 --> 00:43:30.490 were the navaratna in King Akbar Scott 00:43:26.608 --> 00:43:32.049 and the big takeaway that I think both 00:43:30.489 --> 00:43:34.118 of them will agree with is that we can 00:43:32.050 --> 00:43:37.410 first learn to operate with common sense 00:43:34.119 --> 00:43:37.410 thank you so much for listening 00:43:37.509 --> 00:43:45.179 you 00:43:39.000 --> 00:43:45.179 [Music]