1 00:00:04,230 --> 00:00:07,368 [Music] 2 00:00:09,830 --> 00:00:14,519 we've talked of the material we've 3 00:00:12,150 --> 00:00:17,940 talked of the political we've talked of 4 00:00:14,519 --> 00:00:20,368 entertainment and art and cinema next up 5 00:00:17,940 --> 00:00:23,760 we're going to talk about faith in 6 00:00:20,368 --> 00:00:26,460 reason and its place in society and the 7 00:00:23,760 --> 00:00:29,960 various forms that faith is taking in 8 00:00:26,460 --> 00:00:37,679 the modern world we have Jaggi Vasudev 9 00:00:29,960 --> 00:00:40,200 Sadhguru Jaggi Vasudev the head of 10 00:00:37,679 --> 00:00:42,119 Ischia foundation that has centers 11 00:00:40,200 --> 00:00:44,969 across a hundred and sixty cities across 12 00:00:42,119 --> 00:00:48,209 the world two hundred to two million 13 00:00:44,969 --> 00:00:52,079 volunteers and of and a following that 14 00:00:48,210 --> 00:00:53,520 is passionate and urban and mystical 15 00:00:52,079 --> 00:00:56,640 with him 16 00:00:53,520 --> 00:01:00,539 we have Javed Akhtar lyricist script 17 00:00:56,640 --> 00:01:02,850 writer legendary man of cinema but also 18 00:01:00,539 --> 00:01:05,519 somebody who is a committed and fierce 19 00:01:02,850 --> 00:01:08,609 rationalist both of them will be talking 20 00:01:05,519 --> 00:01:12,590 about the space for faith and reason in 21 00:01:08,609 --> 00:01:12,590 our society please welcome them on stage 22 00:01:12,709 --> 00:01:22,559 you have a passion for snakes SUVs bikes 23 00:01:18,109 --> 00:01:25,228 helicopters adventure travel you have a 24 00:01:22,560 --> 00:01:27,509 flair for entrepreneurship your passion 25 00:01:25,228 --> 00:01:30,359 is the construction business and your 26 00:01:27,509 --> 00:01:33,329 asset guru can you spell out what is the 27 00:01:30,359 --> 00:01:36,180 core philosophy of your foundation of 28 00:01:33,328 --> 00:01:41,699 your practices and how do these two 29 00:01:36,180 --> 00:01:44,310 aspects of you sit together good evening 30 00:01:41,700 --> 00:01:44,640 everyone first of all let me correct 31 00:01:44,310 --> 00:01:48,390 that 32 00:01:44,640 --> 00:01:50,640 I have no passion for snakes or SUVs or 33 00:01:48,390 --> 00:01:53,960 helicopters I'm just passionate about 34 00:01:50,640 --> 00:01:57,750 life and just about anything that I do 35 00:01:53,959 --> 00:02:00,179 it's not about this or that I do not 36 00:01:57,750 --> 00:02:03,209 know how to do anything without absolute 37 00:02:00,180 --> 00:02:07,259 involvement so passion is a word that 38 00:02:03,209 --> 00:02:10,199 people attach but it's just that just 39 00:02:07,259 --> 00:02:11,949 about anything that I do I do not know 40 00:02:10,199 --> 00:02:15,549 how to do it without absolute 41 00:02:11,949 --> 00:02:19,209 involvement because it's only with 42 00:02:15,550 --> 00:02:21,010 involvement one knows life it doesn't 43 00:02:19,209 --> 00:02:22,989 matter whether you're doing business or 44 00:02:21,009 --> 00:02:25,719 art or music spirituality doesn't matter 45 00:02:22,989 --> 00:02:29,800 what you're doing if you're not involved 46 00:02:25,719 --> 00:02:32,129 you'll miss it all so I'm just involved 47 00:02:29,800 --> 00:02:34,030 these are all names that people attach 48 00:02:32,129 --> 00:02:37,989 there's only a few things that people 49 00:02:34,030 --> 00:02:40,419 have seen well you know I'll come back 50 00:02:37,989 --> 00:02:42,878 to this strand of materialism sitting 51 00:02:40,419 --> 00:02:45,518 well with spirituality but before that 52 00:02:42,878 --> 00:02:47,560 you know you say that what you your 53 00:02:45,519 --> 00:02:50,980 philosophy is not even a teaching it's a 54 00:02:47,560 --> 00:02:53,019 technology and it just works what is 55 00:02:50,979 --> 00:02:54,909 that can you articulate it and what does 56 00:02:53,019 --> 00:02:56,319 it mean when they have to be personal 57 00:02:54,909 --> 00:02:58,000 endeavor one doesn't have to be a 58 00:02:56,318 --> 00:03:02,619 learner but you can just achieve a 59 00:02:58,000 --> 00:03:06,579 technology so this is there is no 60 00:03:02,620 --> 00:03:08,079 philosophy because generally 61 00:03:06,579 --> 00:03:11,409 philosophies are just fantastic 62 00:03:08,079 --> 00:03:15,879 explanations for those aspects of life 63 00:03:11,409 --> 00:03:21,219 which can never be explained so they 64 00:03:15,879 --> 00:03:23,560 essentially we're here whatever you 65 00:03:21,219 --> 00:03:27,310 think about it is just your thought but 66 00:03:23,560 --> 00:03:28,930 the fact of it is if you look at this as 67 00:03:27,310 --> 00:03:32,949 a human being 68 00:03:28,930 --> 00:03:36,599 this human mechanism is the most 69 00:03:32,949 --> 00:03:36,599 sophisticated technology on the planet 70 00:03:37,049 --> 00:03:43,359 whatever other gadgets that we have they 71 00:03:40,930 --> 00:03:47,739 all come out of it out of this one this 72 00:03:43,359 --> 00:03:50,079 is the most sophisticated mechanism you 73 00:03:47,739 --> 00:03:54,039 see today people are deeply engrossed in 74 00:03:50,079 --> 00:03:57,340 their iPhones but what would I this is 75 00:03:54,039 --> 00:03:59,620 the thing this is the gadget if you pay 76 00:03:57,340 --> 00:04:02,560 enough attention to this you would 77 00:03:59,620 --> 00:04:06,030 understand how to operate this at its 78 00:04:02,560 --> 00:04:08,949 highest possible mode so the whole 79 00:04:06,030 --> 00:04:12,340 process that we refer to as spiritual is 80 00:04:08,949 --> 00:04:15,009 just this so that this mechanism attains 81 00:04:12,340 --> 00:04:16,988 its fullest capability and possibility 82 00:04:15,009 --> 00:04:20,529 that it doesn't just operate in a 83 00:04:16,988 --> 00:04:23,049 minimalistic way so that's why it's a 84 00:04:20,529 --> 00:04:25,059 technology philosophies have happened 85 00:04:23,050 --> 00:04:27,430 because of the misunderstanding 86 00:04:25,060 --> 00:04:29,589 the technology otherwise essentially 87 00:04:27,430 --> 00:04:31,600 only technologies were transmitted you 88 00:04:29,589 --> 00:04:33,489 might if you look back and see there 89 00:04:31,600 --> 00:04:37,300 were no teachings in this country there 90 00:04:33,490 --> 00:04:40,000 were only methods methods how to do it 91 00:04:37,300 --> 00:04:42,430 how to make this happen at its highest 92 00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:44,949 possible level so once we enter this 93 00:04:42,430 --> 00:04:47,709 fear being a subjective dimension of 94 00:04:44,949 --> 00:04:50,199 life you have a body you have a mind you 95 00:04:47,709 --> 00:04:52,659 have emotions you have energy supporting 96 00:04:50,199 --> 00:04:56,079 this all these three so when we handle 97 00:04:52,660 --> 00:04:57,460 all these four dimensions some of it may 98 00:04:56,079 --> 00:05:00,430 not come under the purview of 99 00:04:57,459 --> 00:05:03,159 rudimentary logic and reason that a lot 100 00:05:00,430 --> 00:05:05,319 of people subscribe to because of that 101 00:05:03,160 --> 00:05:07,600 rudimentary level of reasoning they 102 00:05:05,319 --> 00:05:09,668 think it's beyond reason it is very much 103 00:05:07,600 --> 00:05:15,340 in reason if you probe into it we can go 104 00:05:09,668 --> 00:05:18,339 into it but in fact you know before we 105 00:05:15,339 --> 00:05:20,500 go further with that in the past you 106 00:05:18,339 --> 00:05:22,119 said yes that you know in India there's 107 00:05:20,500 --> 00:05:24,610 always been methods there hasn't been 108 00:05:22,120 --> 00:05:27,490 teachings but the purpose of 109 00:05:24,610 --> 00:05:29,470 spirituality was to some extent to 110 00:05:27,490 --> 00:05:32,439 disconnect people from desire from 111 00:05:29,470 --> 00:05:35,680 materialism to understand the limits of 112 00:05:32,439 --> 00:05:37,620 that why is it that with the Isha 113 00:05:35,680 --> 00:05:40,620 Foundation's philosophy just 114 00:05:37,620 --> 00:05:43,090 self-actualization is the goal you know 115 00:05:40,620 --> 00:05:45,490 expressing yourself to the maximum you 116 00:05:43,089 --> 00:05:49,359 can rather than to understand the 117 00:05:45,490 --> 00:05:52,660 finiteness of that say yeah 118 00:05:49,360 --> 00:05:54,509 this understanding that spiritual means 119 00:05:52,660 --> 00:05:58,479 you have to disassociate you with desire 120 00:05:54,509 --> 00:06:00,909 let's understand it this way if you 121 00:05:58,478 --> 00:06:03,038 desire for food if you desire for money 122 00:06:00,910 --> 00:06:05,729 if you desire for a piece of land on 123 00:06:03,038 --> 00:06:08,019 this planet if this is considered greed 124 00:06:05,728 --> 00:06:11,019 now you want to know the very source of 125 00:06:08,019 --> 00:06:13,418 creation this is super green isn't it so 126 00:06:11,019 --> 00:06:15,819 where is the question of dissociating it 127 00:06:13,418 --> 00:06:18,399 is evolution of desire not associating 128 00:06:15,819 --> 00:06:20,019 with desire your desire is evolved when 129 00:06:18,399 --> 00:06:22,750 you are a five-year-old child what you 130 00:06:20,019 --> 00:06:25,240 desired for completely fell away when 131 00:06:22,750 --> 00:06:27,160 you were 10 what you desire for when you 132 00:06:25,240 --> 00:06:29,769 were 10 completely was meaningless when 133 00:06:27,160 --> 00:06:31,389 you're 15 what you desired as 15 when 134 00:06:29,769 --> 00:06:34,870 you're 30 doesn't make any sense 135 00:06:31,389 --> 00:06:38,019 so your desire is evolving if you evolve 136 00:06:34,870 --> 00:06:38,918 very slowly you will go at this pace if 137 00:06:38,019 --> 00:06:41,498 you go 138 00:06:38,918 --> 00:06:43,839 your experience and think beyond and 139 00:06:41,499 --> 00:06:46,060 reason beyond where you are right now as 140 00:06:43,839 --> 00:06:47,679 you sit here if you understand that 141 00:06:46,060 --> 00:06:50,468 after all you and me are mortal 142 00:06:47,680 --> 00:06:52,689 whatever we may do when you understand 143 00:06:50,468 --> 00:06:54,218 your motto naturally the question of 144 00:06:52,689 --> 00:06:55,330 what is beyond where did I come from 145 00:06:54,218 --> 00:06:57,519 where will I go 146 00:06:55,329 --> 00:07:02,050 this is naturally in the purview of 147 00:06:57,519 --> 00:07:04,568 human intellect see if you are not given 148 00:07:02,050 --> 00:07:07,509 ready-made answers by somebody it is 149 00:07:04,569 --> 00:07:10,120 very very natural that every human 150 00:07:07,509 --> 00:07:11,710 intellect will inquire where did I come 151 00:07:10,120 --> 00:07:14,769 from where will I go what is the nature 152 00:07:11,709 --> 00:07:17,138 of my existence so this is not 153 00:07:14,769 --> 00:07:18,579 dissociating from desire this is just 154 00:07:17,139 --> 00:07:23,288 evolving your desire to a new 155 00:07:18,579 --> 00:07:24,788 possibility I'm going to bring Javid 156 00:07:23,288 --> 00:07:26,560 selves into the conversation in a bit 157 00:07:24,788 --> 00:07:33,959 Javed sir I just want to prove this a 158 00:07:26,560 --> 00:07:33,959 little more I'll finish it 159 00:07:34,720 --> 00:07:42,620 Sadhguru G Javed Sahab this is called 160 00:07:40,819 --> 00:07:43,839 theatrical timing you've got a clap for 161 00:07:42,620 --> 00:07:46,990 saying nothing actually 162 00:07:43,839 --> 00:07:49,669 [Laughter] 163 00:07:46,990 --> 00:07:53,509 Sadhguru G you know we we've called our 164 00:07:49,670 --> 00:07:54,500 session five stars fixes because and the 165 00:07:53,509 --> 00:07:56,269 reason I'm saying this is because 166 00:07:54,500 --> 00:07:59,240 perhaps it's something that one doesn't 167 00:07:56,269 --> 00:08:00,740 understand that to be a part of your 168 00:07:59,240 --> 00:08:02,300 course which actually a lot of my 169 00:08:00,740 --> 00:08:04,819 friends have taken and I must admit that 170 00:08:02,300 --> 00:08:08,060 it does transform them the breathing 171 00:08:04,819 --> 00:08:13,969 techniques they come back , people but 172 00:08:08,060 --> 00:08:16,339 it costs a lot how is your spirituality 173 00:08:13,970 --> 00:08:19,520 your technique your old technology is 174 00:08:16,339 --> 00:08:20,709 not available for the poor I want you to 175 00:08:19,519 --> 00:08:24,829 understand this 176 00:08:20,709 --> 00:08:28,339 70% of ISA Foundation's work is in rural 177 00:08:24,829 --> 00:08:33,189 India where it's 100% free I'm just 178 00:08:28,339 --> 00:08:33,189 rubbing you to keep that 70% actor 179 00:08:40,570 --> 00:08:49,879 so you need to understand this we charge 180 00:08:46,850 --> 00:08:52,190 one way in the United States another way 181 00:08:49,879 --> 00:08:55,399 in UK another way in Lebanon anna devane 182 00:08:52,190 --> 00:08:58,430 Zelenka another way in India one way in 183 00:08:55,399 --> 00:09:00,590 Mumbai one way in there some one way in 184 00:08:58,429 --> 00:09:02,539 a local town and in the village it's 185 00:09:00,590 --> 00:09:08,690 free you've got to give you accountants 186 00:09:02,539 --> 00:09:10,490 to the government and above all the 187 00:09:08,690 --> 00:09:13,580 volume of work our volunteers are doing 188 00:09:10,490 --> 00:09:15,200 is all funded by this the amount of 189 00:09:13,580 --> 00:09:18,139 medical work free medical work that's 190 00:09:15,200 --> 00:09:19,759 happening education very involved with 191 00:09:18,139 --> 00:09:22,490 about thirty six thousand children right 192 00:09:19,759 --> 00:09:23,409 now actively with the largest ecological 193 00:09:22,490 --> 00:09:25,519 moment in the country 194 00:09:23,409 --> 00:09:28,269 nowhere in the history of independent 195 00:09:25,519 --> 00:09:30,500 India has this happened in any state 196 00:09:28,269 --> 00:09:33,769 Tamil Nadu is green cover has gone up 197 00:09:30,500 --> 00:09:35,299 7.2% in a matter of eight years with 17 198 00:09:33,769 --> 00:09:39,919 million living trees that we have 199 00:09:35,299 --> 00:09:42,679 planted so where does money come from 200 00:09:39,919 --> 00:09:45,319 all this guru that doesn't answer my 201 00:09:42,679 --> 00:09:49,370 question because you do a lot of rural 202 00:09:45,320 --> 00:09:51,020 outreach and one knows that those who do 203 00:09:49,370 --> 00:09:53,570 not have money should come and take it 204 00:09:51,019 --> 00:09:56,120 in the village it's free no I I was 205 00:09:53,570 --> 00:09:58,670 talking about now the thing is five-star 206 00:09:56,120 --> 00:10:00,860 culture people want air-conditioned 207 00:09:58,669 --> 00:10:02,719 rooms people want all the comfort and 208 00:10:00,860 --> 00:10:06,470 they want it free how does it come 209 00:10:02,720 --> 00:10:08,389 somebody has to pay for it to finish my 210 00:10:06,470 --> 00:10:11,090 question it's not about you charging the 211 00:10:08,389 --> 00:10:12,769 rich which is fine for the well-being 212 00:10:11,090 --> 00:10:15,040 I was asking whether your breathing 213 00:10:12,769 --> 00:10:16,850 techniques your technology of 214 00:10:15,039 --> 00:10:19,039 self-actualization whether that is 215 00:10:16,850 --> 00:10:21,560 available to the poor your meditative 216 00:10:19,039 --> 00:10:24,079 techniques you know not use I'm talking 217 00:10:21,559 --> 00:10:26,179 about the meditative techniques all the 218 00:10:24,080 --> 00:10:32,060 inner engineering programs in the 219 00:10:26,179 --> 00:10:34,699 villages are free 100% free one other 220 00:10:32,059 --> 00:10:36,500 question which is about your central 221 00:10:34,700 --> 00:10:38,570 philosophy is to do with yoga and with 222 00:10:36,500 --> 00:10:40,610 breathing techniques but there is also 223 00:10:38,570 --> 00:10:43,850 another I would like to dissociate from 224 00:10:40,610 --> 00:10:47,450 that word philosophy technology is 225 00:10:43,850 --> 00:10:50,570 connected with breathing techniques but 226 00:10:47,450 --> 00:10:50,850 you also believe in in past life you 227 00:10:50,570 --> 00:10:53,190 know 228 00:10:50,850 --> 00:10:55,470 my colleagues spent a week with you at 229 00:10:53,190 --> 00:10:57,959 the foundation and wrote a big piece and 230 00:10:55,470 --> 00:11:00,569 he said that their people feel that they 231 00:10:57,958 --> 00:11:03,328 can see disembodied selves that you know 232 00:11:00,568 --> 00:11:07,110 your wife you felt was a sister from the 233 00:11:03,328 --> 00:11:09,539 past life you know we've had James Randi 234 00:11:07,110 --> 00:11:12,750 here who was shooting through this kind 235 00:11:09,539 --> 00:11:13,919 of faith system and you said something 236 00:11:12,750 --> 00:11:15,448 very interesting to my colleague you 237 00:11:13,919 --> 00:11:17,250 know when he was being skeptical about 238 00:11:15,448 --> 00:11:19,620 this whole idea of past life and seeing 239 00:11:17,250 --> 00:11:21,539 spirits that are disembodied you said 240 00:11:19,620 --> 00:11:23,039 the reason you disbelieve all this is 241 00:11:21,539 --> 00:11:24,899 because your mind is in the UK and 242 00:11:23,039 --> 00:11:27,269 Greenwich Mean Time you know and not in 243 00:11:24,899 --> 00:11:29,730 India so is it really about conditioning 244 00:11:27,269 --> 00:11:33,778 of minds it is not about conditioning of 245 00:11:29,730 --> 00:11:34,289 minds let's look at it this way when you 246 00:11:33,778 --> 00:11:36,600 were born 247 00:11:34,289 --> 00:11:40,169 you were not made like this isn't it you 248 00:11:36,600 --> 00:11:41,639 are so small now this much happen how so 249 00:11:40,169 --> 00:11:47,189 what you call as my body is an 250 00:11:41,639 --> 00:11:48,568 accumulation accumulation it's just a 251 00:11:47,190 --> 00:11:51,060 piece of planet that you accumulate 252 00:11:48,568 --> 00:11:53,250 through the food that you eat what you 253 00:11:51,059 --> 00:11:55,018 call as my mind is a heap of impressions 254 00:11:53,250 --> 00:11:57,740 which you also accumulate or a period of 255 00:11:55,019 --> 00:12:01,409 time so your body is an accumulation 256 00:11:57,740 --> 00:12:04,129 your mind is an accumulation what you 257 00:12:01,409 --> 00:12:07,289 accumulate at the most you can claim 258 00:12:04,129 --> 00:12:09,809 it's yours but you cannot say it's me 259 00:12:07,289 --> 00:12:11,458 isn't it it's like the five percent of 260 00:12:09,809 --> 00:12:12,719 the universe that we understand now one 261 00:12:11,458 --> 00:12:14,719 of the scientists will tell you no no 262 00:12:12,720 --> 00:12:17,639 I'm not talking about that say right now 263 00:12:14,720 --> 00:12:20,220 whatever you accumulate you can claim 264 00:12:17,639 --> 00:12:23,159 it's yours but you cannot claim it's 265 00:12:20,220 --> 00:12:24,439 mean isn't it what you accumulate cannot 266 00:12:23,159 --> 00:12:27,448 be you isn't it 267 00:12:24,438 --> 00:12:30,929 so you gathered your body you gathered 268 00:12:27,448 --> 00:12:33,870 the whole volume of your mind so what 269 00:12:30,929 --> 00:12:36,149 the hell are you never even looked at 270 00:12:33,870 --> 00:12:38,459 isn't it you're making assumptions so 271 00:12:36,149 --> 00:12:41,458 your personality your ideologies 272 00:12:38,458 --> 00:12:44,489 everything picked up everything 273 00:12:41,458 --> 00:12:46,559 accumulated you can accumulate and keep 274 00:12:44,490 --> 00:12:49,169 it and use it but you can never claim 275 00:12:46,559 --> 00:12:51,328 it's mind everybody should get this now 276 00:12:49,169 --> 00:12:53,958 if you don't get it now you'll get it 277 00:12:51,328 --> 00:12:53,958 from the maggots 278 00:12:55,610 --> 00:13:01,320 sub-group use you had you had amount of 279 00:12:58,980 --> 00:13:02,730 sin a moment when you were young when 280 00:13:01,320 --> 00:13:05,100 you felt that you were instantly 281 00:13:02,730 --> 00:13:07,710 transformed you don't speak of it much 282 00:13:05,100 --> 00:13:09,570 but you also you know you also told 283 00:13:07,710 --> 00:13:14,060 people that you would die at 42 but you 284 00:13:09,570 --> 00:13:19,890 didn't so I'm sorry to disappoint you 285 00:13:14,059 --> 00:13:22,199 but that again puts all this realm into 286 00:13:19,889 --> 00:13:23,909 you know I mean I'm somebody in the 287 00:13:22,200 --> 00:13:25,920 middle zone people who who know me well 288 00:13:23,909 --> 00:13:27,779 always tease me about how I try to be a 289 00:13:25,919 --> 00:13:29,849 rationalist but I always believe in the 290 00:13:27,779 --> 00:13:32,549 paranormal but you know there is no 291 00:13:29,850 --> 00:13:33,509 precision to it so how you know how do 292 00:13:32,549 --> 00:13:35,609 you square with that 293 00:13:33,509 --> 00:13:38,939 what would your deputies say if you said 294 00:13:35,610 --> 00:13:43,950 something you know the paranormal is not 295 00:13:38,940 --> 00:13:45,930 empirical so these are all words we keep 296 00:13:43,950 --> 00:13:53,430 on inventing more words for all this 297 00:13:45,929 --> 00:13:55,679 this is just lying in the sense now when 298 00:13:53,429 --> 00:13:57,750 you talk about past lives present life I 299 00:13:55,679 --> 00:14:01,469 always tell people do not ever believe 300 00:13:57,750 --> 00:14:05,190 these things at the same time do not be 301 00:14:01,470 --> 00:14:08,220 a fool and disbelieve it because belief 302 00:14:05,190 --> 00:14:09,840 and disbelief means just this you 303 00:14:08,220 --> 00:14:12,389 believe something or you disbelieve 304 00:14:09,840 --> 00:14:14,129 something essentially means you are not 305 00:14:12,389 --> 00:14:16,350 straight enough to admit that you do not 306 00:14:14,129 --> 00:14:19,169 know you have not understood the 307 00:14:16,350 --> 00:14:21,170 immensity of I do not know because I do 308 00:14:19,169 --> 00:14:24,899 not know is it tremendous possibility 309 00:14:21,169 --> 00:14:27,419 only if you see I do not know the 310 00:14:24,899 --> 00:14:31,069 possibility of knowing ever arises in 311 00:14:27,419 --> 00:14:34,469 you so this must be clearly demarcated 312 00:14:31,070 --> 00:14:37,260 see the moment you say and religious you 313 00:14:34,470 --> 00:14:38,850 refer to yourself as a believer the 314 00:14:37,259 --> 00:14:41,370 moment you refer to somebody as 315 00:14:38,850 --> 00:14:45,420 spiritual you refer to him as a seeker 316 00:14:41,370 --> 00:14:49,139 who can see only one who is realized 317 00:14:45,419 --> 00:14:52,409 that he does not know can seek if he 318 00:14:49,139 --> 00:14:55,370 thinks he knows why will he seek if we 319 00:14:52,409 --> 00:14:55,370 come to you Javed sir 320 00:14:59,210 --> 00:15:09,500 now start for seeking Joe it's up you 321 00:15:05,029 --> 00:15:12,019 have to not be theatrical with me will 322 00:15:09,500 --> 00:15:17,330 we live in a country yeah of great 323 00:15:12,019 --> 00:15:20,470 faiths you are part of a creative space 324 00:15:17,330 --> 00:15:22,040 that very often expresses stories 325 00:15:20,470 --> 00:15:24,410 through faith 326 00:15:22,039 --> 00:15:27,319 you're a committed rationalist you know 327 00:15:24,409 --> 00:15:29,149 if we see the finiteness of faith would 328 00:15:27,320 --> 00:15:34,330 you accept that there's a finiteness to 329 00:15:29,149 --> 00:15:36,860 just reason as well first of all I think 330 00:15:34,330 --> 00:15:40,220 before starting any discussion one 331 00:15:36,860 --> 00:15:40,789 should always decide on the meaning of 332 00:15:40,220 --> 00:15:43,610 words 333 00:15:40,789 --> 00:15:45,949 maybe you mean something by faith and I 334 00:15:43,610 --> 00:15:48,259 am understanding something else what is 335 00:15:45,950 --> 00:15:52,970 faith and what is the difference between 336 00:15:48,259 --> 00:15:55,580 faith and belief I believe I am in Goa I 337 00:15:52,970 --> 00:15:58,279 believe there is a place called North 338 00:15:55,580 --> 00:16:00,980 Pole I believe that the two pies a poor 339 00:15:58,279 --> 00:16:05,569 country I believe that Germany is a rich 340 00:16:00,980 --> 00:16:08,899 country is it my faith why it is not my 341 00:16:05,570 --> 00:16:10,700 faith I'll tell you why cuz not by faith 342 00:16:08,899 --> 00:16:15,919 and white is my belief because it is 343 00:16:10,700 --> 00:16:21,520 reasonable anything any belief which is 344 00:16:15,919 --> 00:16:30,259 devoid of logic reason rational evidence 345 00:16:21,519 --> 00:16:32,960 witness that is faith anything which is 346 00:16:30,259 --> 00:16:35,480 devoid of all the logic all the reason 347 00:16:32,960 --> 00:16:39,200 all the ration all the witness all the 348 00:16:35,480 --> 00:16:40,909 evidence that have failed and I really 349 00:16:39,200 --> 00:16:42,920 wonder what is the difference between 350 00:16:40,909 --> 00:16:44,629 faith and his stupidity because that is 351 00:16:42,919 --> 00:16:46,829 it has property they have the same 352 00:16:44,629 --> 00:16:51,509 definition 353 00:16:46,830 --> 00:16:54,690 I am willing to I am willing to accept 354 00:16:51,509 --> 00:16:59,189 belief but it has to have some rationale 355 00:16:54,690 --> 00:17:01,740 some reason if you don't have any you 356 00:16:59,190 --> 00:17:05,490 disarm me from reason logic 357 00:17:01,740 --> 00:17:09,410 now when you say that whatever mind is 358 00:17:05,490 --> 00:17:13,410 is accumulated my body is accumulated 359 00:17:09,410 --> 00:17:16,620 that is not me it is like saying that as 360 00:17:13,410 --> 00:17:19,679 long as you can peel the onion you are 361 00:17:16,619 --> 00:17:22,229 not finding the onion Jesus killed our 362 00:17:19,679 --> 00:17:26,189 onion this accumulation this 363 00:17:22,230 --> 00:17:29,150 accumulation is me if you eradicate this 364 00:17:26,189 --> 00:17:33,058 accumulation I don't exist that's all 365 00:17:29,150 --> 00:17:43,380 Javad sub I think I should respond to 366 00:17:33,058 --> 00:17:46,009 this okay all right now you being in 367 00:17:43,380 --> 00:17:48,840 nagpur right now for sure is you believe 368 00:17:46,009 --> 00:17:52,079 that you being in goa right now is a 369 00:17:48,839 --> 00:17:53,759 reality you better grasp courage 370 00:17:52,079 --> 00:17:55,889 you just give me a moment there's a 371 00:17:53,759 --> 00:17:57,599 reverberation here and B country or each 372 00:17:55,890 --> 00:18:02,009 other could you just turn the speakers 373 00:17:57,599 --> 00:18:04,109 towards us or maybe give Satguru G 374 00:18:02,009 --> 00:18:05,849 another mic because we cannot that I 375 00:18:04,109 --> 00:18:08,058 can't understand him I can't even hear 376 00:18:05,849 --> 00:18:08,058 me 377 00:18:10,309 --> 00:18:21,919 I I don't know about the battle between 378 00:18:18,529 --> 00:18:24,339 faith and reason but wit certainly has 379 00:18:21,920 --> 00:18:26,750 its place in society 380 00:18:24,339 --> 00:18:28,250 probably the microphones are arranged in 381 00:18:26,750 --> 00:18:35,869 such a way because anyway you and if you 382 00:18:28,250 --> 00:18:44,390 hear you may understand thanks for the 383 00:18:35,869 --> 00:18:47,319 compliments of guys three yeah yeah so 384 00:18:44,390 --> 00:18:47,320 it will have come on man 385 00:18:58,849 --> 00:19:11,439 so now I'll repeat for you you believing 386 00:19:07,039 --> 00:19:15,319 that you're in Nagpur is for sure belief 387 00:19:11,440 --> 00:19:17,029 but you're in Goa is a reality whether 388 00:19:15,319 --> 00:19:19,579 you believe it or you don't believe it 389 00:19:17,029 --> 00:19:23,690 that's how it is so there is a 390 00:19:19,579 --> 00:19:27,970 difference between reality and belief if 391 00:19:23,690 --> 00:19:30,500 you think whatever you believe is true I 392 00:19:27,970 --> 00:19:33,170 want you to understand we can make you 393 00:19:30,500 --> 00:19:35,059 believe just about anything if you work 394 00:19:33,170 --> 00:19:36,950 hard enough on you we can make you 395 00:19:35,059 --> 00:19:39,289 believe anything and when you believe 396 00:19:36,950 --> 00:19:41,809 just about anything that is what we are 397 00:19:39,289 --> 00:19:43,899 referring to as fate or it's passing off 398 00:19:41,809 --> 00:19:46,899 as religion or faith will come to this 399 00:19:43,900 --> 00:19:46,900 now 400 00:19:55,329 --> 00:20:07,359 no let's let me be the moderator one 401 00:19:58,269 --> 00:20:11,769 point nobody watchin I will I'll be 402 00:20:07,359 --> 00:20:14,649 wrong maybe wrong logic the people in 403 00:20:11,769 --> 00:20:16,299 the audience may I read it shall not be 404 00:20:14,650 --> 00:20:19,440 corrected because it will not be a 405 00:20:16,299 --> 00:20:22,450 stolen energy may I retain the esthetics 406 00:20:19,440 --> 00:20:24,490 may I retain the aesthetics of this 407 00:20:22,450 --> 00:20:25,779 session I really don't need anybody 408 00:20:24,490 --> 00:20:27,759 telling me that I'm not going to let him 409 00:20:25,779 --> 00:20:32,410 talk I will let him talk can we please 410 00:20:27,759 --> 00:20:35,259 keep the aesthetics of this alive so so 411 00:20:32,410 --> 00:20:37,810 this whole presumption and the way this 412 00:20:35,259 --> 00:20:39,910 is going is coming from a certain 413 00:20:37,809 --> 00:20:42,789 fundamental presumption because even 414 00:20:39,910 --> 00:20:45,009 when I met Javed Sahab last time he was 415 00:20:42,789 --> 00:20:48,579 telling me that some guru told him not 416 00:20:45,009 --> 00:20:51,940 to use his mind I do not know which go 417 00:20:48,579 --> 00:21:03,849 to set this one thing is clear the 418 00:20:51,940 --> 00:21:08,620 advice has been taken seriously never 419 00:21:03,849 --> 00:21:10,779 taken any I have I have not taken any 420 00:21:08,619 --> 00:21:13,000 guru seriously I promise you that in the 421 00:21:10,779 --> 00:21:15,490 rich tradition in the rich tradition of 422 00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:17,230 the argumentative Indians yeah it 423 00:21:15,490 --> 00:21:20,200 remained with the argument it never got 424 00:21:17,230 --> 00:21:21,880 personal both of you so I just wanted to 425 00:21:20,200 --> 00:21:25,029 come back job itself to this whole issue 426 00:21:21,880 --> 00:21:28,260 of of the finiteness of a reason you 427 00:21:25,029 --> 00:21:31,000 know we just saw Ramanujan for instance 428 00:21:28,259 --> 00:21:33,910 he was intuitive he didn't know how he 429 00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:37,210 arrived at at that Matt but he arrived 430 00:21:33,910 --> 00:21:39,009 at it I have absolutely no argument with 431 00:21:37,210 --> 00:21:41,710 the fact that reason is the highest 432 00:21:39,009 --> 00:21:43,779 condition of man as we understand it but 433 00:21:41,710 --> 00:21:47,500 is there not space for something beyond 434 00:21:43,779 --> 00:21:49,809 I empirical understanding course but 435 00:21:47,500 --> 00:21:52,359 there is no hero around it there is 436 00:21:49,809 --> 00:21:54,369 nothing like it spiritual about it when 437 00:21:52,359 --> 00:21:56,589 you look at the fan and that the fan is 438 00:21:54,369 --> 00:21:58,659 running on full speed you can't see the 439 00:21:56,589 --> 00:22:00,730 blades it doesn't mean there are no 440 00:21:58,660 --> 00:22:03,820 trains you know when you think very 441 00:22:00,730 --> 00:22:06,250 quickly you may not see the reason but 442 00:22:03,819 --> 00:22:08,220 when you will sit back and analyze it if 443 00:22:06,250 --> 00:22:13,200 the conclusion is right then there is 444 00:22:08,220 --> 00:22:15,329 a logical step behind it you have not 445 00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:18,029 seen it at that moment because your 446 00:22:15,329 --> 00:22:20,519 conscious mind is not the only mind you 447 00:22:18,029 --> 00:22:23,788 have many parts of the mind you lose a 448 00:22:20,519 --> 00:22:25,440 key and you try to remember you can't 449 00:22:23,788 --> 00:22:28,319 and then you're talking to somebody else 450 00:22:25,440 --> 00:22:30,450 and some certainly you remember where 451 00:22:28,319 --> 00:22:33,569 you have kept the key because a part of 452 00:22:30,450 --> 00:22:36,419 your brain was working on it so brain is 453 00:22:33,569 --> 00:22:39,569 a very complicated machine mind is the 454 00:22:36,419 --> 00:22:43,288 most sophisticated computer on in this 455 00:22:39,569 --> 00:22:45,210 universe at the moment so you have to 456 00:22:43,288 --> 00:22:47,460 understand the functioning if Ramanujam 457 00:22:45,210 --> 00:22:49,740 understood it he understood it in a 458 00:22:47,460 --> 00:22:51,509 language which he knew why he did not 459 00:22:49,740 --> 00:22:56,130 understand in Chinese though he proved 460 00:22:51,509 --> 00:22:59,308 that is not possible symmetry what will 461 00:22:56,130 --> 00:23:03,360 come will come from your mind you are 462 00:22:59,308 --> 00:23:06,298 nothing but your mind and if that is 463 00:23:03,359 --> 00:23:08,459 really captured you don't exist but 464 00:23:06,298 --> 00:23:11,359 Ramanujan actually believed that the 465 00:23:08,460 --> 00:23:14,548 goddess was giving him that intuition 466 00:23:11,359 --> 00:23:15,869 how do you reconcile that would you say 467 00:23:14,548 --> 00:23:17,879 that he was something I mean after all 468 00:23:15,869 --> 00:23:20,689 he was a human being so what he wouldn't 469 00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:20,690 be right all the time 470 00:23:26,950 --> 00:23:33,410 sub-group before I come back to you 471 00:23:28,910 --> 00:23:35,540 Javed 7 another function of faith is you 472 00:23:33,410 --> 00:23:37,400 know in its in its refined form not as 473 00:23:35,539 --> 00:23:40,569 religion not as public religion but as 474 00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:44,060 faith can sometimes be the impulse for 475 00:23:40,569 --> 00:23:48,169 also the most noble of human endeavor 476 00:23:44,059 --> 00:23:50,389 whether we are about it the faith can 477 00:23:48,170 --> 00:23:52,430 make you do wonderful things and the 478 00:23:50,390 --> 00:23:55,160 worst thing possible these society 479 00:23:52,430 --> 00:23:56,420 embers are people of faith if they would 480 00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:59,029 have been reasonable they wouldn't have 481 00:23:56,420 --> 00:24:03,710 done that but but equally Jove itself 482 00:23:59,029 --> 00:24:07,069 faith is a blind power faith paralyzes 483 00:24:03,710 --> 00:24:09,319 your mind and now you are capable of 484 00:24:07,069 --> 00:24:11,480 doing something exceptionally good and 485 00:24:09,319 --> 00:24:14,379 something exceptionally bad but you are 486 00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:17,150 out of control you can go either way 487 00:24:14,380 --> 00:24:19,790 what about the ultra rationalist the 488 00:24:17,150 --> 00:24:21,140 Communists the Stalinist regimes no no 489 00:24:19,789 --> 00:24:25,490 no they are not rational is there 490 00:24:21,140 --> 00:24:30,350 communism they have a fit they believe 491 00:24:25,490 --> 00:24:32,269 in communism think I am not only against 492 00:24:30,349 --> 00:24:38,259 religion with spiritualism which is the 493 00:24:32,269 --> 00:24:40,759 debris of religion I am I am again v if 494 00:24:38,259 --> 00:24:43,190 communism is your faith then you are 495 00:24:40,759 --> 00:24:45,529 half bad and the religious person that's 496 00:24:43,190 --> 00:24:47,240 well quit so so what do you live with 497 00:24:45,529 --> 00:24:49,789 then if you don't live with a belief 498 00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:51,140 system what do you live with right you 499 00:24:49,789 --> 00:24:54,879 know you're talking of extremities but 500 00:24:51,140 --> 00:24:54,880 how about how about common sense 501 00:24:55,099 --> 00:25:06,669 [Applause] 502 00:25:02,970 --> 00:25:08,650 it'll do for the moment I'm going to 503 00:25:06,670 --> 00:25:10,769 come back Javed sir with a scientific 504 00:25:08,650 --> 00:25:13,330 question for you which is about stories 505 00:25:10,769 --> 00:25:15,549 human-beings need stories to live with 506 00:25:13,329 --> 00:25:17,889 you know we've met a lot of scientists a 507 00:25:15,549 --> 00:25:21,399 lot of astrophysicists even in science 508 00:25:17,890 --> 00:25:22,540 there is the idea of the story I don't 509 00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:25,240 know much about it and if you question 510 00:25:22,539 --> 00:25:27,789 me too much I'll falter but you know the 511 00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:29,740 universe professor Gunnison was telling 512 00:25:27,789 --> 00:25:32,019 us that we understand only 5% of the 513 00:25:29,740 --> 00:25:34,269 universe there's 95% we don't understand 514 00:25:32,019 --> 00:25:36,250 and we both met Richard Dawkins in 515 00:25:34,269 --> 00:25:38,230 Jaipur earlier this year and he was 516 00:25:36,250 --> 00:25:40,779 suggesting that outside of this universe 517 00:25:38,230 --> 00:25:42,849 there could be multiverses now that is 518 00:25:40,779 --> 00:25:45,069 not something we know it is a belief in 519 00:25:42,849 --> 00:25:47,439 in something that is not a believed it 520 00:25:45,069 --> 00:25:49,149 is a guess maybe maybe not know it's a 521 00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:50,650 story you live with why can't we live 522 00:25:49,150 --> 00:25:53,200 with other stories in the meantime which 523 00:25:50,650 --> 00:25:57,670 give people a sense of such in their 524 00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:59,529 life a sense of solace you see what is 525 00:25:57,670 --> 00:26:02,019 the problem that as long as you have 526 00:25:59,529 --> 00:26:04,420 curiosity as long as and he said very 527 00:26:02,019 --> 00:26:07,779 rightly and I totally agree with him 528 00:26:04,420 --> 00:26:09,490 that you should be humble enough to 529 00:26:07,779 --> 00:26:12,099 accept that there are many things that 530 00:26:09,490 --> 00:26:14,500 you don't know and only then you 531 00:26:12,099 --> 00:26:16,990 research what is wrong with religions 532 00:26:14,500 --> 00:26:18,940 that you know everything they can tell 533 00:26:16,990 --> 00:26:21,819 you how to make a universal for easy 534 00:26:18,940 --> 00:26:24,190 lessons they can they will tell you 535 00:26:21,819 --> 00:26:26,679 whatever you were before you were born 536 00:26:24,190 --> 00:26:29,110 and where will you go after your death 537 00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:32,310 and so on so they have all the answers 538 00:26:29,109 --> 00:26:32,309 that's it the problem 539 00:26:37,519 --> 00:26:41,879 Sakura gee that's so that's you know 540 00:26:40,079 --> 00:26:44,339 when you said that essentially the 541 00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:48,060 spiritual person is a seeker why is it 542 00:26:44,339 --> 00:26:49,470 that gurus give the answers I don't know 543 00:26:48,059 --> 00:26:50,940 but you guru gave an answer I haven't 544 00:26:49,470 --> 00:26:52,950 met one like that if you've met they're 545 00:26:50,940 --> 00:26:55,740 all the wrong ones I couldn't help it 546 00:26:52,950 --> 00:26:59,400 no go to ever give an answer gurus only 547 00:26:55,740 --> 00:27:02,730 give methods to deepen your process I 548 00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:06,509 asked you what your method was so now 549 00:27:02,730 --> 00:27:09,000 we're talking about thought and the 550 00:27:06,509 --> 00:27:11,879 event itself is called think so let me 551 00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:15,569 let's just look at this your thought 552 00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:17,730 your thought is essentially coming from 553 00:27:15,569 --> 00:27:20,369 the information that is already there in 554 00:27:17,730 --> 00:27:23,759 your mind the data that is there in your 555 00:27:20,369 --> 00:27:26,369 mind it's complex but it is within the 556 00:27:23,759 --> 00:27:29,309 limited data that you have how did you 557 00:27:26,369 --> 00:27:32,339 gather this data this data you gathered 558 00:27:29,309 --> 00:27:35,099 through the agencies of five senses by 559 00:27:32,339 --> 00:27:36,929 seeing by hearing smelling tasting and 560 00:27:35,099 --> 00:27:40,079 touching this is the way it's gone into 561 00:27:36,930 --> 00:27:42,269 you these are the five instruments which 562 00:27:40,079 --> 00:27:44,279 are taking in all the data in your 563 00:27:42,269 --> 00:27:46,859 wakefulness and sleep this data is being 564 00:27:44,279 --> 00:27:50,069 gathered all the time even in your sleep 565 00:27:46,859 --> 00:27:51,839 in deep sleep if I say something we can 566 00:27:50,069 --> 00:27:54,210 hypnotize you and make you remember that 567 00:27:51,839 --> 00:27:56,789 actually because even in sleep you're 568 00:27:54,210 --> 00:27:59,460 recording but it is only through these 569 00:27:56,789 --> 00:28:04,349 five senses these five senses are not 570 00:27:59,460 --> 00:28:08,039 reliable in the sense if I touch this 571 00:28:04,349 --> 00:28:09,199 table it would my hand will tell me it's 572 00:28:08,039 --> 00:28:12,240 cool 573 00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:12,750 but if I lowered my body temperature and 574 00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:14,910 touch it 575 00:28:12,750 --> 00:28:17,190 my hand will tell me it's wrong so it 576 00:28:14,910 --> 00:28:19,529 doesn't say anything about that it only 577 00:28:17,190 --> 00:28:22,620 tells me the information that is 578 00:28:19,529 --> 00:28:24,750 necessary for my survival if survival is 579 00:28:22,619 --> 00:28:26,669 all you're seeking these five senses are 580 00:28:24,750 --> 00:28:29,880 okay but if you're seeking something 581 00:28:26,670 --> 00:28:32,220 beyond survival you need to expand the 582 00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:34,680 dimension of your perception so the 583 00:28:32,220 --> 00:28:37,019 whole spiritual process is about how to 584 00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:39,660 expand your perception because only what 585 00:28:37,019 --> 00:28:42,569 you perceive is life rest is just 586 00:28:39,660 --> 00:28:43,350 imagination if you want to be in touch 587 00:28:42,569 --> 00:28:45,559 with reality 588 00:28:43,349 --> 00:28:47,819 you have to enhance your perception and 589 00:28:45,559 --> 00:28:49,769 just assuming 590 00:28:47,819 --> 00:28:53,819 what see this thing happened across the 591 00:28:49,769 --> 00:28:56,278 history when people believed the planet 592 00:28:53,819 --> 00:28:56,788 is flat somebody said it's around he got 593 00:28:56,278 --> 00:29:01,319 killed 594 00:28:56,788 --> 00:29:04,138 okay now everybody thought they can only 595 00:29:01,319 --> 00:29:05,118 walk somebody says I can fly he was 596 00:29:04,138 --> 00:29:07,378 almost killed 597 00:29:05,118 --> 00:29:10,618 so this has happened continuously 598 00:29:07,378 --> 00:29:13,589 because people believing whatever I do 599 00:29:10,618 --> 00:29:22,709 not know cannot exist is the crown of 600 00:29:13,589 --> 00:29:24,569 ignorance Jove it's up that's that's a 601 00:29:22,710 --> 00:29:26,999 Wally that I hand to you you know that 602 00:29:24,569 --> 00:29:29,038 at every lat every point in history the 603 00:29:26,999 --> 00:29:31,499 limits of reality has been pushed by 604 00:29:29,038 --> 00:29:33,658 those who imagine or have faith in 605 00:29:31,499 --> 00:29:35,249 something that doesn't yet exist not at 606 00:29:33,659 --> 00:29:37,679 all not at all 607 00:29:35,249 --> 00:29:40,440 first of all it's not I mean the first 608 00:29:37,679 --> 00:29:42,809 thing if spiritualist will do will try 609 00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:46,649 to shake your confidence in the five 610 00:29:42,808 --> 00:29:51,358 senses that you have only then he can 611 00:29:46,648 --> 00:29:53,908 control you now if you think that you 612 00:29:51,358 --> 00:29:56,788 will believe him any other thing then 613 00:29:53,909 --> 00:29:59,940 take a person do an operation on him 614 00:29:56,788 --> 00:30:01,528 disconnect him with his brain and then 615 00:29:59,940 --> 00:30:05,190 let us see how he expands its 616 00:30:01,528 --> 00:30:08,729 personality whatever expansion happens 617 00:30:05,190 --> 00:30:11,278 happens in your mind and you cannot 618 00:30:08,729 --> 00:30:14,069 undermine it and whoever suggests that 619 00:30:11,278 --> 00:30:16,710 that is to be undermined is playing the 620 00:30:14,069 --> 00:30:18,569 very dangerous game with you that's what 621 00:30:16,710 --> 00:30:20,970 then you will not have any discretion 622 00:30:18,569 --> 00:30:22,229 how will you decide whatever whatever 623 00:30:20,970 --> 00:30:24,808 he's saying is right or wrong and 624 00:30:22,229 --> 00:30:26,580 whatever he's saying is you here using 625 00:30:24,808 --> 00:30:28,149 his brain he doesn't want you to use you 626 00:30:26,579 --> 00:30:31,899 obey 627 00:30:28,150 --> 00:30:34,420 from there this concept um have it come 628 00:30:31,900 --> 00:30:38,080 from well from their testimony 629 00:30:34,420 --> 00:30:39,550 it has come from the mind even if you 630 00:30:38,079 --> 00:30:41,679 think that the mind is not everything 631 00:30:39,549 --> 00:30:43,480 that too has come from the mind if you 632 00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:47,799 don't just mind how do you trust this 633 00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:51,099 part good job it's up yeah you said the 634 00:30:47,799 --> 00:30:52,269 five senses as a writer as an artist as 635 00:30:51,099 --> 00:30:53,799 a human being yeah 636 00:30:52,269 --> 00:30:56,170 don't you sometimes have a sixth sense 637 00:30:53,799 --> 00:30:58,839 about something please understand you 638 00:30:56,170 --> 00:31:01,210 see there are like between countries 639 00:30:58,839 --> 00:31:03,009 there are no man lands between India and 640 00:31:01,210 --> 00:31:06,370 Pakistan between India and China that 641 00:31:03,009 --> 00:31:08,950 Roman family in you between your 642 00:31:06,369 --> 00:31:11,889 subconscious and between your conscious 643 00:31:08,950 --> 00:31:15,069 mind there is a Roman land and what 644 00:31:11,890 --> 00:31:19,360 happens that if you rely only on your 645 00:31:15,069 --> 00:31:22,240 current thinking on your mind a brain is 646 00:31:19,359 --> 00:31:24,579 also like how your mind your conscious 647 00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:26,259 mind is your living room but then you 648 00:31:24,579 --> 00:31:28,449 have other rooms you have a taste 649 00:31:26,259 --> 00:31:32,140 you have bedrooms you have basements 650 00:31:28,450 --> 00:31:34,930 within your brain then you relax and you 651 00:31:32,140 --> 00:31:37,990 allow the other part of your mind to 652 00:31:34,930 --> 00:31:41,440 take over then your conscious mind and 653 00:31:37,990 --> 00:31:44,529 your subconscious they work together in 654 00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:46,180 partnership and ultimately something 655 00:31:44,529 --> 00:31:48,399 comes which comes from you move comes 656 00:31:46,180 --> 00:31:50,710 from your mind but from that part of 657 00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:53,620 mind which more often than not you are 658 00:31:50,710 --> 00:31:55,279 not using that's all but it is the mind 659 00:31:53,619 --> 00:32:01,089 ultimately 660 00:31:55,279 --> 00:32:05,240 [Applause] 661 00:32:01,089 --> 00:32:07,399 now Kenneth we're talking about stories 662 00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:09,620 can I say his story stories a Nutella 663 00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:13,610 story yeah sure please but just speak a 664 00:32:09,619 --> 00:32:18,109 bit louder yes on a certain day a lady 665 00:32:13,609 --> 00:32:21,589 went to sleep in her sleep she had a 666 00:32:18,109 --> 00:32:24,500 dream in her dream she saw a hunk of a 667 00:32:21,589 --> 00:32:27,169 man standing there staring at her he 668 00:32:24,500 --> 00:32:29,808 started coming closer and closer he came 669 00:32:27,170 --> 00:32:36,259 so close she could even feel his breath 670 00:32:29,808 --> 00:32:40,789 and she trembled not in fear and then 671 00:32:36,259 --> 00:32:47,299 she asked what will you do to me the man 672 00:32:40,789 --> 00:32:49,970 said well lady it's your dream now what 673 00:32:47,299 --> 00:32:53,659 happens in your mind is just essentially 674 00:32:49,970 --> 00:32:57,620 you dream just being in a constant state 675 00:32:53,660 --> 00:33:03,040 of flowing thoughts all the time 24 676 00:32:57,619 --> 00:33:07,189 hours thoughts are flowing this is not 677 00:33:03,039 --> 00:33:10,960 this does not signify intelligence this 678 00:33:07,190 --> 00:33:16,160 suggests diarrhea mental diarrhea 679 00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:19,940 constantly it is on and on and on now if 680 00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:23,269 one has made an effort one has strived 681 00:33:19,940 --> 00:33:27,470 to look beyond the firmament of the mind 682 00:33:23,269 --> 00:33:29,450 one would know other dimensions simply 683 00:33:27,470 --> 00:33:32,779 denying that nothing like that exists 684 00:33:29,450 --> 00:33:35,630 because I do not know it is I don't know 685 00:33:32,779 --> 00:33:37,369 he doesn't need comments security but 686 00:33:35,630 --> 00:33:39,320 you just said that the five senses are 687 00:33:37,369 --> 00:33:41,689 unreliable but just to come back to that 688 00:33:39,319 --> 00:33:45,289 license is being unreliable let me come 689 00:33:41,690 --> 00:33:49,340 to this right now what your vision 690 00:33:45,289 --> 00:33:50,269 visual sense understands his light many 691 00:33:49,339 --> 00:33:52,689 of the creatures on the planet 692 00:33:50,269 --> 00:33:54,769 understand it as darkness isn't it so 693 00:33:52,690 --> 00:33:56,960 you sit with an owl and start an 694 00:33:54,769 --> 00:33:58,730 argument as to which is light and which 695 00:33:56,960 --> 00:34:01,970 is darkness you will end up with an 696 00:33:58,730 --> 00:34:03,558 endless argument so who is right you 697 00:34:01,970 --> 00:34:05,390 insist you're right but that is the 698 00:34:03,558 --> 00:34:06,950 whole problem people insisting that 699 00:34:05,390 --> 00:34:09,769 their right is the whole problem on the 700 00:34:06,950 --> 00:34:10,990 planet what's a guru if if the whole 701 00:34:09,769 --> 00:34:13,780 point of 702 00:34:10,989 --> 00:34:16,779 your technology is to make people actual 703 00:34:13,780 --> 00:34:19,090 eyes themselves why in the modern world 704 00:34:16,780 --> 00:34:22,179 is there still cult creation why does 705 00:34:19,090 --> 00:34:24,760 your photograph adorn every devotees who 706 00:34:22,179 --> 00:34:26,710 or every practitioners home why do they 707 00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:30,940 not just take the technology and become 708 00:34:26,710 --> 00:34:36,610 independent spirits themselves see you 709 00:34:30,940 --> 00:34:38,849 don't mind if you don't mind if a rock 710 00:34:36,610 --> 00:34:43,929 stars picture is in somebody's house 711 00:34:38,849 --> 00:34:47,289 okay but people he lives a bad life 712 00:34:43,929 --> 00:34:50,440 he is drugged out but you don't mind if 713 00:34:47,289 --> 00:34:53,230 a film stars picture is there it doesn't 714 00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:55,030 matter if the 12 girls from the 715 00:34:53,230 --> 00:34:58,030 Kingfisher calender don't your house you 716 00:34:55,030 --> 00:34:59,800 do not matter but you have something 717 00:34:58,030 --> 00:35:02,820 with me what is the problem 718 00:34:59,800 --> 00:35:02,820 I'll tell you what the rock 719 00:35:08,969 --> 00:35:13,779 yeah I'll tell you I'll job itself I'll 720 00:35:12,460 --> 00:35:15,460 come to you but I'll tell you what my 721 00:35:13,780 --> 00:35:17,230 problem with that is is that by and 722 00:35:15,460 --> 00:35:20,050 large what Javed Sahab was saying 723 00:35:17,230 --> 00:35:21,699 earlier is that with the following of a 724 00:35:20,050 --> 00:35:24,460 guru even if the Guru doesn't want it 725 00:35:21,699 --> 00:35:27,369 there is a giving up of oneself there's 726 00:35:24,460 --> 00:35:30,039 a subjugation of one's own thinking to a 727 00:35:27,369 --> 00:35:32,049 you know to a guru and that takes people 728 00:35:30,039 --> 00:35:33,309 sometimes to very dark places you know 729 00:35:32,050 --> 00:35:34,780 you're willing to kill for a guru you 730 00:35:33,309 --> 00:35:40,090 may not be willing to kill for the film 731 00:35:34,780 --> 00:35:41,650 star but they do they don't didn't you 732 00:35:40,090 --> 00:35:54,280 come in Tamil not one see people will 733 00:35:41,650 --> 00:35:58,059 kill for the film star you know if a 734 00:35:54,280 --> 00:36:00,930 film star is having a wonderful time 735 00:35:58,059 --> 00:36:03,039 you don't resent if a rock star is 736 00:36:00,929 --> 00:36:05,469 having a wonderful time I mean he's 737 00:36:03,039 --> 00:36:06,099 doing what in his vocation in his 738 00:36:05,469 --> 00:36:08,559 profession 739 00:36:06,099 --> 00:36:10,119 you don't reason if a guru is going put 740 00:36:08,559 --> 00:36:12,449 in his profession is having a good time 741 00:36:10,119 --> 00:36:14,319 why should you return it some not 742 00:36:12,449 --> 00:36:18,429 definitely what's your problem 743 00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:20,740 sure now this is this is the operation 744 00:36:18,429 --> 00:36:25,219 of rationalism the equation should hold 745 00:36:20,739 --> 00:36:31,008 good they then have good time job 746 00:36:25,219 --> 00:36:33,659 [Applause] 747 00:36:31,009 --> 00:36:35,548 Sakuragi one quick question I think my 748 00:36:33,659 --> 00:36:38,938 colleague is going to ring the bell any 749 00:36:35,548 --> 00:36:41,068 minute you know I saw a film recently in 750 00:36:38,938 --> 00:36:43,170 America made by a young man and it's 751 00:36:41,068 --> 00:36:46,018 called the truce - the true story of a 752 00:36:43,170 --> 00:36:48,358 fake guru he dressed himself up as a 753 00:36:46,018 --> 00:36:50,818 guru and he went and he met a whole lot 754 00:36:48,358 --> 00:36:53,219 of people he listened to their sorrows 755 00:36:50,818 --> 00:36:55,438 he listened to their stories he put 756 00:36:53,219 --> 00:36:57,659 three pictures in front of them he 757 00:36:55,438 --> 00:37:00,058 brought them into this sense of ecstasy 758 00:36:57,659 --> 00:37:01,798 inhalation and they began to transform 759 00:37:00,059 --> 00:37:04,798 themselves they completely believed in 760 00:37:01,798 --> 00:37:06,748 him and they began to follow him they 761 00:37:04,798 --> 00:37:09,150 felt that they arrived at a safe harbor 762 00:37:06,748 --> 00:37:11,488 at the end of the film and they're being 763 00:37:09,150 --> 00:37:12,269 filmed through this whole journey at the 764 00:37:11,489 --> 00:37:14,789 end of it 765 00:37:12,268 --> 00:37:16,139 no no feels himself you know about it he 766 00:37:14,789 --> 00:37:19,679 reveals himself he's just a young man 767 00:37:16,139 --> 00:37:23,458 from Canada from Phoenix what is the 768 00:37:19,679 --> 00:37:25,949 answer to that see this is why I want 769 00:37:23,458 --> 00:37:30,958 you to make a distinction between faith 770 00:37:25,949 --> 00:37:34,709 and a spiritual process faith is just a 771 00:37:30,958 --> 00:37:37,498 set of beliefs spiritual process begins 772 00:37:34,708 --> 00:37:39,469 only when you realize that you do not 773 00:37:37,498 --> 00:37:43,018 know the fundamentals of your existence 774 00:37:39,469 --> 00:37:45,958 and seeking begins when a seeking begins 775 00:37:43,018 --> 00:37:47,998 and you find your sense organs and your 776 00:37:45,958 --> 00:37:49,798 logic only takes you to a certain point 777 00:37:47,998 --> 00:37:52,558 and it's not willing to help you beyond 778 00:37:49,798 --> 00:37:54,389 that then when you come to your dead end 779 00:37:52,559 --> 00:37:56,429 you know there is something beyond but 780 00:37:54,389 --> 00:37:59,248 you're at a dead end then you will want 781 00:37:56,429 --> 00:38:01,318 a normal process so then somebody who 782 00:37:59,248 --> 00:38:04,649 has experienced it will offer a process 783 00:38:01,318 --> 00:38:06,568 this is all it is now in society it 784 00:38:04,650 --> 00:38:09,028 might have fire found all kinds of 785 00:38:06,568 --> 00:38:13,429 distortions you picking up a bad apple 786 00:38:09,028 --> 00:38:15,989 and talking about apples Satguru 787 00:38:13,429 --> 00:38:17,880 consumption in this universe in this 788 00:38:15,989 --> 00:38:20,338 earth is really becoming something 789 00:38:17,880 --> 00:38:22,679 unsustainable what kind of spirituality 790 00:38:20,338 --> 00:38:24,838 is it that does not talk about the 791 00:38:22,679 --> 00:38:27,150 finite end of consumption you know even 792 00:38:24,838 --> 00:38:29,429 as a even as a method even as a process 793 00:38:27,150 --> 00:38:33,150 that is not part of Asia foundation at 794 00:38:29,429 --> 00:38:36,568 all see we are always trying to curtail 795 00:38:33,150 --> 00:38:38,639 human aspirations it'll never work if I 796 00:38:36,568 --> 00:38:40,099 tell somebody don't smoke don't do this 797 00:38:38,639 --> 00:38:41,690 don't do that they will not do 798 00:38:40,099 --> 00:38:43,099 they'll anyway continue to do it or 799 00:38:41,690 --> 00:38:46,338 other kinds of Campbell's compulsions 800 00:38:43,099 --> 00:38:48,739 will take them over but if you teach 801 00:38:46,338 --> 00:38:51,078 them a method through which they're able 802 00:38:48,739 --> 00:38:53,838 to manage the chemistry of who they are 803 00:38:51,079 --> 00:38:56,028 today there is substantial medical and 804 00:38:53,838 --> 00:38:58,068 scientific evidence it is no more belief 805 00:38:56,028 --> 00:39:01,608 system there is substantial scientific 806 00:38:58,068 --> 00:39:03,170 and medical evidence today research has 807 00:39:01,608 --> 00:39:04,909 gone into this University of California 808 00:39:03,170 --> 00:39:07,099 has done an enormous research and the 809 00:39:04,909 --> 00:39:09,170 simple Shambo Muhammad are the basic 810 00:39:07,099 --> 00:39:11,479 practice that we teach three months of 811 00:39:09,170 --> 00:39:13,670 practice you're the neuronal 812 00:39:11,478 --> 00:39:15,588 regeneration rejuvenation in your brain 813 00:39:13,670 --> 00:39:18,650 is two hundred and forty-one percent 814 00:39:15,588 --> 00:39:20,599 more than the average okay there any 815 00:39:18,650 --> 00:39:23,749 number of things like this now the 816 00:39:20,599 --> 00:39:25,880 chemical soup that you are you can 817 00:39:23,748 --> 00:39:28,939 either make it very blissful or 818 00:39:25,880 --> 00:39:31,309 miserable so if you are blissful by your 819 00:39:28,940 --> 00:39:34,278 own nature then all the compulsiveness 820 00:39:31,309 --> 00:39:36,349 will naturally drop whether you're going 821 00:39:34,278 --> 00:39:38,059 shopping or you're digging up the planet 822 00:39:36,349 --> 00:39:40,729 or you seeking something else 823 00:39:38,059 --> 00:39:43,579 essentially it is just this a human 824 00:39:40,728 --> 00:39:45,708 being is what longing to be a human 825 00:39:43,579 --> 00:39:47,028 being is longing to be something more 826 00:39:45,708 --> 00:39:49,608 than what he is right now 827 00:39:47,028 --> 00:39:51,768 but if that more happens he wants more 828 00:39:49,608 --> 00:39:54,708 if you really look at it a human being 829 00:39:51,768 --> 00:39:57,048 cannot settle unless he has all of it if 830 00:39:54,708 --> 00:39:58,848 you want all of it approaching it 831 00:39:57,048 --> 00:40:01,190 through physical means is a hopeless 832 00:39:58,849 --> 00:40:03,619 means the design is fine but the method 833 00:40:01,190 --> 00:40:05,509 is hopeless so spiritual process means 834 00:40:03,619 --> 00:40:09,469 you have offered him the right method 835 00:40:05,509 --> 00:40:12,318 right process for the same design job 836 00:40:09,469 --> 00:40:14,829 it's a view on jealousy I really find it 837 00:40:12,318 --> 00:40:17,690 highly amusing it's very interesting 838 00:40:14,829 --> 00:40:20,209 that it is in religion it is in 839 00:40:17,690 --> 00:40:22,818 spirituality the moment they find 840 00:40:20,208 --> 00:40:26,629 something in science which is compatible 841 00:40:22,818 --> 00:40:28,579 they start respecting science they said 842 00:40:26,630 --> 00:40:31,369 look now even the science has accepted 843 00:40:28,579 --> 00:40:34,670 it but the moment science is opposing 844 00:40:31,369 --> 00:40:38,059 them then it is not credible at all and 845 00:40:34,670 --> 00:40:40,699 it is the history there was a question 846 00:40:38,059 --> 00:40:43,190 which I missed that time we have to 847 00:40:40,699 --> 00:40:45,048 understand through spiritualism that why 848 00:40:43,190 --> 00:40:48,949 we are in this universe what are we 849 00:40:45,048 --> 00:40:50,268 doing here why have we come here I don't 850 00:40:48,949 --> 00:40:52,920 want to 851 00:40:50,268 --> 00:40:55,139 commend about anybody else's presence 852 00:40:52,920 --> 00:40:57,088 but guru ji I know why I'm in this 853 00:40:55,139 --> 00:41:00,768 universe and the reason is unprintable 854 00:40:57,088 --> 00:41:06,210 and the reason is unprintable offensive 855 00:41:00,768 --> 00:41:10,048 it is a pompous question that why I am 856 00:41:06,210 --> 00:41:13,289 in this universe it is a pompous 857 00:41:10,048 --> 00:41:14,880 question what I am doing here have you 858 00:41:13,289 --> 00:41:17,519 ever thought of a mosquito 859 00:41:14,880 --> 00:41:24,210 why did mosquito is here in this world 860 00:41:17,518 --> 00:41:27,088 why this porch is here tell it as far as 861 00:41:24,210 --> 00:41:29,999 life quality is concerned there is no 862 00:41:27,088 --> 00:41:32,639 difference between a Roden and a human 863 00:41:29,998 --> 00:41:35,608 being between a mosquito and a human 864 00:41:32,639 --> 00:41:37,828 being the only difference is the mind 865 00:41:35,608 --> 00:41:38,569 and this is the difference they want to 866 00:41:37,829 --> 00:41:49,410 eradicate 867 00:41:38,570 --> 00:41:53,650 [Applause] 868 00:41:49,409 --> 00:41:56,440 obviously this has no relevance to 869 00:41:53,650 --> 00:42:03,160 whatever I'm speaking it looks like it's 870 00:41:56,440 --> 00:42:05,588 not even being heard so the thing is the 871 00:42:03,159 --> 00:42:10,420 significant aspect of that the 872 00:42:05,588 --> 00:42:13,000 significant aspect of human life is that 873 00:42:10,420 --> 00:42:15,750 human life is replete with possibilities 874 00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:19,088 which other creatures are not capable of 875 00:42:15,750 --> 00:42:22,030 every other creature on this planet is 876 00:42:19,088 --> 00:42:24,250 fulfilled when its survival process is 877 00:42:22,030 --> 00:42:26,530 fulfilled there is something about a 878 00:42:24,250 --> 00:42:29,170 human being that it does not settle with 879 00:42:26,530 --> 00:42:31,560 survival what is called as human begins 880 00:42:29,170 --> 00:42:35,220 only after survival is taken care off 881 00:42:31,559 --> 00:42:38,259 so the longing to be an endless 882 00:42:35,219 --> 00:42:42,338 expansion cannot be settled by the 883 00:42:38,260 --> 00:42:43,990 simplicity of thought thought is just a 884 00:42:42,338 --> 00:42:47,440 product of the data that we have 885 00:42:43,989 --> 00:42:49,479 gathered and whatever you may know it is 886 00:42:47,440 --> 00:42:52,929 still too limited that much is 887 00:42:49,480 --> 00:42:56,139 established by science so about science 888 00:42:52,929 --> 00:42:57,368 and spiritual process ever being head-on 889 00:42:56,139 --> 00:42:59,679 with each other such a thing has never 890 00:42:57,369 --> 00:43:01,510 happened it is just that you have not 891 00:42:59,679 --> 00:43:04,480 been exposed to the right things as I 892 00:43:01,510 --> 00:43:06,369 said earlier you eat a bad apple and you 893 00:43:04,480 --> 00:43:10,059 make conclusions about all apples it's 894 00:43:06,369 --> 00:43:13,750 an unfortunate reality of one's life I'm 895 00:43:10,059 --> 00:43:16,299 going to have to end it at that my 896 00:43:13,750 --> 00:43:17,949 takeaway from this are two things one 897 00:43:16,300 --> 00:43:20,950 that in India we've had a glorious 898 00:43:17,949 --> 00:43:23,319 tradition of the argumentation between 899 00:43:20,949 --> 00:43:26,608 men of faith and men of reason there 900 00:43:23,320 --> 00:43:30,490 were the navaratna in King Akbar Scott 901 00:43:26,608 --> 00:43:32,049 and the big takeaway that I think both 902 00:43:30,489 --> 00:43:34,118 of them will agree with is that we can 903 00:43:32,050 --> 00:43:37,410 first learn to operate with common sense 904 00:43:34,119 --> 00:43:37,410 thank you so much for listening 905 00:43:37,509 --> 00:43:45,179 you 906 00:43:39,000 --> 00:43:45,179 [Music]