WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:04.879 Brace yourself. I'm going to show you an 00:00:02.640 --> 00:00:07.599 aesthetic catastrophe. 00:00:04.879 --> 00:00:10.000 It's the worst PowerPoint slide in human 00:00:07.599 --> 00:00:12.080 history. It was produced by the US 00:00:10.000 --> 00:00:13.839 military in 2010 to illustrate the 00:00:12.080 --> 00:00:16.480 difficulties they were facing during the 00:00:13.839 --> 00:00:19.039 war in Afghanistan. When the public got 00:00:16.480 --> 00:00:22.679 a hold of it, it became a case study for 00:00:19.039 --> 00:00:24.480 how not to do PowerPoint. This is actual 00:00:22.679 --> 00:00:27.000 slide of the Afghanistan [music] 00:00:24.480 --> 00:00:28.519 strategy last year and it was prepared 00:00:27.000 --> 00:00:30.600 by the staff to General Stanley 00:00:28.519 --> 00:00:31.640 McChrystal. Listen here, Thomas. 00:00:30.600 --> 00:00:32.320 We have met the enemy and he is 00:00:31.640 --> 00:00:34.719 PowerPoint. 00:00:32.320 --> 00:00:36.200 >> It was this incredibly complicated 00:00:34.719 --> 00:00:38.839 PowerPoint chart. 00:00:36.200 --> 00:00:40.840 >> Even the head of US forces at the time, 00:00:38.840 --> 00:00:43.880 General Stanley McChrystal, knew 00:00:40.840 --> 00:00:45.280 immediately how bad the slide was. When 00:00:43.880 --> 00:00:47.359 the staff brought this to McChrystal, 00:00:45.280 --> 00:00:49.320 this PowerPoint slide, he said, "When we 00:00:47.359 --> 00:00:51.960 understand that slide, we will have won 00:00:49.320 --> 00:00:54.119 the war." At the time, the US military's 00:00:51.960 --> 00:00:56.000 overuse of PowerPoint was an easy 00:00:54.119 --> 00:00:57.439 punchline for commanders when they were 00:00:56.000 --> 00:00:58.759 giving public speeches. 00:00:57.439 --> 00:01:00.879 >> It says in there that it is the 00:00:58.759 --> 00:01:03.000 inalienable right of every four-star 00:01:00.880 --> 00:01:05.239 Army general to use PowerPoint slides 00:01:03.000 --> 00:01:08.040 when communicating relying on only 00:01:05.239 --> 00:01:10.760 commander's intent, not detailed orders 00:01:08.040 --> 00:01:12.840 in multicolored PowerPoint format. 00:01:10.760 --> 00:01:14.960 Marine Corps General James Mattis was 00:01:12.840 --> 00:01:17.240 fond of saying, "PowerPoint makes us 00:01:14.959 --> 00:01:18.759 dumb." I have a friend who runs 00:01:17.239 --> 00:01:21.879 Microsoft, by the way, and he doesn't 00:01:18.760 --> 00:01:24.200 like it when I say that. 00:01:21.879 --> 00:01:27.359 10 years later, things hadn't improved 00:01:24.200 --> 00:01:29.520 much. Another Pentagon PowerPoint slide 00:01:27.359 --> 00:01:31.439 that showed the way different parts of 00:01:29.519 --> 00:01:34.759 the military were interconnected went 00:01:31.439 --> 00:01:36.840 viral in 2020. It also was an 00:01:34.760 --> 00:01:38.640 abomination of communication. But, 00:01:36.840 --> 00:01:41.000 there's a reason the US military kept 00:01:38.640 --> 00:01:42.879 spitting out these awful diagrams. They 00:01:41.000 --> 00:01:45.519 were in the midst of a decades-long 00:01:42.879 --> 00:01:47.159 battle to figure out how all the 00:01:45.519 --> 00:01:49.799 different parts of the armed forces 00:01:47.159 --> 00:01:51.799 could work together more efficiently. 00:01:49.799 --> 00:01:53.039 The interesting thing is, in the last 3 00:01:51.799 --> 00:01:55.959 years or so, 00:01:53.040 --> 00:01:58.400 it appears that one company has finally 00:01:55.959 --> 00:02:00.519 figured it all out. To maintain US and 00:01:58.400 --> 00:02:01.960 Western military superiority requires 00:02:00.519 --> 00:02:03.959 deliberate action and [music] 00:02:01.959 --> 00:02:05.919 technological innovation. 00:02:03.959 --> 00:02:07.559 At Palantir, we deliver secure, 00:02:05.920 --> 00:02:09.599 innovative, and scalable software 00:02:07.560 --> 00:02:11.280 solutions at speed. 00:02:09.599 --> 00:02:13.840 You might have heard of this company, 00:02:11.280 --> 00:02:16.080 Palantir. It seems to be the evil 00:02:13.840 --> 00:02:19.000 multinational corporation de jure. 00:02:16.080 --> 00:02:21.760 Largely secretive, Palantir specializes 00:02:19.000 --> 00:02:23.800 in the shadowy practice of data mining. 00:02:21.759 --> 00:02:26.120 For most of its existence, Palantir flew 00:02:23.800 --> 00:02:28.719 under the radar. It was an extremely 00:02:26.120 --> 00:02:31.000 obscure US defense contractor that few 00:02:28.719 --> 00:02:32.120 people outside the industry had ever 00:02:31.000 --> 00:02:33.919 heard of. 00:02:32.120 --> 00:02:36.000 But in the last few years, it's kind of 00:02:33.919 --> 00:02:39.000 been everywhere. So, what do you think 00:02:36.000 --> 00:02:41.680 your local Coles has in common with CIA? 00:02:39.000 --> 00:02:43.599 Well, they both use Palantir. Palantir 00:02:41.680 --> 00:02:47.000 has been the top-performing stock on the 00:02:43.599 --> 00:02:49.479 entire US stock market in 2025. Special 00:02:47.000 --> 00:02:52.159 thanks to our sponsor, Palantir. From 00:02:49.479 --> 00:02:54.359 the global war on terror to space domain 00:02:52.159 --> 00:02:56.479 awareness, Palantir continues to be a 00:02:54.360 --> 00:02:58.640 mission partner for the US and allied 00:02:56.479 --> 00:03:00.639 nations. These days, Palantir is 00:02:58.639 --> 00:03:02.479 involved in everything from retail to 00:03:00.639 --> 00:03:05.238 military operations to immigration 00:03:02.479 --> 00:03:06.479 enforcement. Up until recently, the CEO 00:03:05.239 --> 00:03:08.560 has tried to remain out of the 00:03:06.479 --> 00:03:11.000 spotlight, and perhaps that was for a 00:03:08.560 --> 00:03:12.680 good reason. Because since becoming more 00:03:11.000 --> 00:03:15.959 of a public figure, he's been saying 00:03:12.680 --> 00:03:19.777 things like this. We are at the core 00:03:15.959 --> 00:03:22.479 of making the obvious superiority of the 00:03:19.776 --> 00:03:25.479 [music] West. Our product is used on 00:03:22.479 --> 00:03:28.560 occasion to kill people. Okay-dokey. 00:03:25.479 --> 00:03:30.799 Despite its exponential growth in size 00:03:28.560 --> 00:03:33.360 and strategic significance, Palantir is 00:03:30.800 --> 00:03:35.200 still a bit of a mystery to most people. 00:03:33.360 --> 00:03:37.000 We're going to spend the next 2 weeks on 00:03:35.199 --> 00:03:39.639 this company, taking a look at 00:03:37.000 --> 00:03:41.840 Palantir's origin story, and how it's 00:03:39.639 --> 00:03:44.679 grown to be one of the biggest companies 00:03:41.840 --> 00:03:47.759 in the world. I'm Matt Bevan, 00:03:44.680 --> 00:03:47.760 and this is If You Listen. 00:03:49.560 --> 00:03:53.000 This story begins with a terrorist 00:03:51.039 --> 00:03:53.836 attack on the World Trade Center in New 00:03:53.000 --> 00:03:53.960 York City, 00:03:53.836 --> 00:03:56.799 >> [laughter] 00:03:53.960 --> 00:04:00.480 >> but not the one you're thinking of. This 00:03:56.800 --> 00:04:02.520 one happened in 1993. As New Yorkers 00:04:00.479 --> 00:04:05.239 came to terms with a possible act of 00:04:02.520 --> 00:04:06.800 terrorism on US soil, investigators 00:04:05.240 --> 00:04:09.240 released the first pictures of the 00:04:06.800 --> 00:04:11.760 explosion site, leaving little doubt 00:04:09.240 --> 00:04:12.959 that a powerful bomb was the most likely 00:04:11.759 --> 00:04:15.560 cause. 00:04:12.959 --> 00:04:17.920 A van packed with 550 kilos of 00:04:15.560 --> 00:04:19.759 explosives was driven into an 00:04:17.920 --> 00:04:21.920 underground car park of the World Trade 00:04:19.759 --> 00:04:23.480 Center. Now, the crater is 100 ft beyond 00:04:21.920 --> 00:04:25.720 where you're looking right now. It 00:04:23.480 --> 00:04:27.919 blasted a hole through three floors, 00:04:25.720 --> 00:04:30.040 killing six people instantly, and 00:04:27.918 --> 00:04:32.639 injuring hundreds more. 00:04:30.040 --> 00:04:35.600 For some time, it wasn't clear who was 00:04:32.639 --> 00:04:37.360 behind the attack. As many as 19 groups 00:04:35.600 --> 00:04:39.760 have claimed responsibility for the 00:04:37.360 --> 00:04:42.319 explosion, but the mystery of who really 00:04:39.759 --> 00:04:44.079 did it remains unsolved. 00:04:42.319 --> 00:04:46.680 One of the FBI agents involved in the 00:04:44.079 --> 00:04:49.159 investigation was John O'Neill. He'd 00:04:46.680 --> 00:04:50.959 always wanted to be in the FBI ever 00:04:49.160 --> 00:04:54.000 since he watched this imaginatively 00:04:50.959 --> 00:04:57.000 titled TV show back in the 1960s. The 00:04:54.000 --> 00:04:57.000 FBI 00:04:57.879 --> 00:05:03.079 A QM production. 00:05:00.399 --> 00:05:05.879 The people behind the 1993 attack were 00:05:03.079 --> 00:05:08.519 religious extremists from Pakistan, and 00:05:05.879 --> 00:05:10.360 John was instrumental in their capture. 00:05:08.519 --> 00:05:12.839 He became obsessed with researching 00:05:10.360 --> 00:05:14.600 Islamic extremism, and quickly became an 00:05:12.839 --> 00:05:17.759 expert on the growing threat of 00:05:14.600 --> 00:05:19.760 terrorism on American soil. 00:05:17.759 --> 00:05:21.199 As he continued rising through the ranks 00:05:19.759 --> 00:05:23.240 of the FBI's counterterrorism 00:05:21.199 --> 00:05:25.479 department, he was cognizant of the 00:05:23.240 --> 00:05:28.600 importance of balancing the need to keep 00:05:25.480 --> 00:05:30.720 people safe with the infringement on 00:05:28.600 --> 00:05:32.560 their personal privacy. If you have a 00:05:30.720 --> 00:05:34.320 lot of order, there is very little 00:05:32.560 --> 00:05:36.519 liberty. 00:05:34.319 --> 00:05:39.120 And if you have a lot of liberty, 00:05:36.519 --> 00:05:41.039 there tends to be less order. 00:05:39.120 --> 00:05:43.680 And this great experiment that we call 00:05:41.040 --> 00:05:46.439 the United States of America has a 00:05:43.680 --> 00:05:49.400 perfect blend of ordered liberty. 00:05:46.439 --> 00:05:51.319 Ordered liberty, a balance between 00:05:49.399 --> 00:05:52.679 government surveillance and individual 00:05:51.319 --> 00:05:54.560 freedom. 00:05:52.680 --> 00:05:56.680 In the US, the government surveillance 00:05:54.560 --> 00:05:58.319 side of the seesaw is populated by lots 00:05:56.680 --> 00:06:00.519 of different intelligence agencies. 00:05:58.319 --> 00:06:02.519 There's local police and the FBI keeping 00:06:00.519 --> 00:06:04.879 an eye on people domestically, 00:06:02.519 --> 00:06:07.479 and the CIA keeping tabs on potential 00:06:04.879 --> 00:06:10.560 threats abroad. But in the 1990s, that 00:06:07.480 --> 00:06:12.560 system had a serious flaw. 00:06:10.560 --> 00:06:15.240 Each of those agencies gathered their 00:06:12.560 --> 00:06:17.959 own data, but sharing data between them 00:06:15.240 --> 00:06:19.840 was complicated. To understand how bad 00:06:17.959 --> 00:06:22.759 the data sharing situation was, think 00:06:19.839 --> 00:06:25.399 about it like this. Imagine the CIA, 00:06:22.759 --> 00:06:27.759 FBI, and local police are represented by 00:06:25.399 --> 00:06:31.039 individual jars, and each piece of 00:06:27.759 --> 00:06:33.680 information they gather is a marble. 00:06:31.040 --> 00:06:35.600 Each agency handles its own marbles. If 00:06:33.680 --> 00:06:37.120 the FBI wants to check out the CIA's 00:06:35.600 --> 00:06:40.000 marbles, they have to go through a 00:06:37.120 --> 00:06:42.040 complicated process of requesting 00:06:40.000 --> 00:06:43.319 specific ones. They have to know what 00:06:42.040 --> 00:06:44.960 they're looking for. 00:06:43.319 --> 00:06:47.879 And as you can see, the opening of this 00:06:44.959 --> 00:06:51.000 CIA bottle is very narrow. It's not easy 00:06:47.879 --> 00:06:53.519 to get an individual marble out. 00:06:51.000 --> 00:06:55.519 As John O'Neill probed the World Trade 00:06:53.519 --> 00:06:58.680 Center attack of 1993, he became 00:06:55.519 --> 00:07:01.079 interested in one particular marble. 00:06:58.680 --> 00:07:03.439 One that most counterterrorism experts 00:07:01.079 --> 00:07:05.079 at the time weren't paying attention to. 00:07:03.439 --> 00:07:07.639 I think if you asked most terrorism 00:07:05.079 --> 00:07:10.000 experts in the mid-1990s, well, what 00:07:07.639 --> 00:07:12.199 about this man, bin Laden? 00:07:10.000 --> 00:07:15.279 Most people in the mid-1990s would have 00:07:12.199 --> 00:07:18.360 said, "Ah, yes, the financier, the 00:07:15.279 --> 00:07:20.599 terrorist financier." In 1998, ABC 00:07:18.360 --> 00:07:22.680 America reporter Chris Isham, a personal 00:07:20.600 --> 00:07:25.000 friend of John O'Neill, trekked for 10 00:07:22.680 --> 00:07:27.040 days across Pakistan to interview the 00:07:25.000 --> 00:07:30.759 leader of a little-known extremist group 00:07:27.040 --> 00:07:34.200 called Al-Qaeda, Osama bin Laden. 00:07:30.759 --> 00:07:36.399 He sat down, um, on this kind of 00:07:34.199 --> 00:07:38.839 bench covered in red fabric, and put a 00:07:36.399 --> 00:07:40.879 blanket kind of over his knee. It was 00:07:38.839 --> 00:07:43.039 like sitting at story time with an old 00:07:40.879 --> 00:07:46.365 uncle. But Chris Isham and his friend 00:07:43.040 --> 00:07:46.960 from the FBI 00:07:46.365 --> 00:07:48.960 >> [music] 00:07:46.959 --> 00:07:52.000 >> shared a growing interest in this old 00:07:48.959 --> 00:07:54.120 uncle in the Pakistani wilderness, who 00:07:52.000 --> 00:07:56.560 during the interview seemed pretty 00:07:54.120 --> 00:07:59.040 harmless. Bin Laden's handlers wouldn't 00:07:56.560 --> 00:08:02.040 allow anyone to translate the shake's 00:07:59.040 --> 00:08:04.160 answers. Miller didn't know what Bin 00:08:02.040 --> 00:08:07.400 Laden was saying, and the Al-Qaeda 00:08:04.160 --> 00:08:09.600 leader's monotonous, measured delivery 00:08:07.399 --> 00:08:10.879 was deceivingly calm. It was only when 00:08:09.600 --> 00:08:12.560 the interview was finished and the 00:08:10.879 --> 00:08:14.759 producers sent the tapes back to be 00:08:12.560 --> 00:08:17.480 translated that they learned what this 00:08:14.759 --> 00:08:19.480 seemingly harmless man was saying. We do 00:08:17.480 --> 00:08:22.040 not differentiate between those dressed 00:08:19.480 --> 00:08:24.600 in military uniforms and civilians. 00:08:22.040 --> 00:08:26.480 They are all targets. We predict a black 00:08:24.600 --> 00:08:29.040 day for America and the end of the 00:08:26.480 --> 00:08:31.560 United States. Hmm, maybe not as 00:08:29.040 --> 00:08:34.120 harmless as he seems. 00:08:31.560 --> 00:08:36.479 When he saw this interview, John O'Neill 00:08:34.120 --> 00:08:38.360 became fixated on Bin Laden. 00:08:36.479 --> 00:08:40.360 He was sure that the US was due for 00:08:38.360 --> 00:08:43.560 another domestic attack, and that Osama 00:08:40.360 --> 00:08:46.000 Bin Laden would be the person to do it. 00:08:43.559 --> 00:08:48.319 He tried hard to raise the alarm within 00:08:46.000 --> 00:08:49.639 the FBI, but it was outside of his 00:08:48.320 --> 00:08:51.040 remit. 00:08:49.639 --> 00:08:52.639 Chris Isham says that John started 00:08:51.039 --> 00:08:56.519 getting frustrated that he wasn't being 00:08:52.639 --> 00:08:59.600 taken seriously enough. He felt that the 00:08:56.519 --> 00:09:02.480 Saudis were definitely playing games and 00:08:59.600 --> 00:09:03.960 that that that the 00:09:02.480 --> 00:09:05.759 senior officials in the US government 00:09:03.960 --> 00:09:09.080 just didn't [music] get it. The problem 00:09:05.759 --> 00:09:11.240 was that John didn't have all the 00:09:09.080 --> 00:09:13.560 information. He couldn't see all the 00:09:11.240 --> 00:09:14.839 marbles. He could only look at the FBI's 00:09:13.559 --> 00:09:17.319 intelligence that they were gathering 00:09:14.839 --> 00:09:19.240 domestically, not the stuff the CIA was 00:09:17.320 --> 00:09:22.160 gathering in the Middle East. 00:09:19.240 --> 00:09:24.360 His frustration began to compound. John, 00:09:22.159 --> 00:09:26.399 because of his aggressive posture, his 00:09:24.360 --> 00:09:27.680 aggressive nature, 00:09:26.399 --> 00:09:30.159 his 00:09:27.679 --> 00:09:33.479 willingness to go forward 00:09:30.159 --> 00:09:35.879 when it may not be politically correct, 00:09:33.480 --> 00:09:37.399 I think a few people were just 00:09:35.879 --> 00:09:40.559 uncomfortable 00:09:37.399 --> 00:09:42.319 with John's aggressive style. In the FBI 00:09:40.559 --> 00:09:44.079 job which John had access to, there were 00:09:42.320 --> 00:09:46.960 a couple of concerning marbles. You can 00:09:44.080 --> 00:09:49.280 see those two little blue ones in here. 00:09:46.960 --> 00:09:51.360 One blue marble is that a man with known 00:09:49.279 --> 00:09:53.399 connections to extremist groups had 00:09:51.360 --> 00:09:55.360 recently been arrested by the FBI while 00:09:53.399 --> 00:09:57.039 attending a flight training school in 00:09:55.360 --> 00:09:59.399 Minnesota. 00:09:57.039 --> 00:10:01.759 They also had another blue marble 00:09:59.399 --> 00:10:04.199 that suggested a coordinated effort may 00:10:01.759 --> 00:10:06.639 be underway by Bin Laden to send people 00:10:04.200 --> 00:10:08.879 to the US [music] to obtain training 00:10:06.639 --> 00:10:10.679 after a number of suspicious people were 00:10:08.879 --> 00:10:12.399 seen attending flight schools in 00:10:10.679 --> 00:10:15.639 Arizona. 00:10:12.399 --> 00:10:19.600 Two very interesting blue marbles, but 00:10:15.639 --> 00:10:21.720 not enough to get the full picture. 00:10:19.600 --> 00:10:24.360 Unbeknownst to John, over at the CIA, 00:10:21.720 --> 00:10:25.920 they had more blue marbles. 00:10:24.360 --> 00:10:27.840 The CIA knew that a number of 00:10:25.919 --> 00:10:30.639 high-profile Al-Qaeda operatives were 00:10:27.840 --> 00:10:32.440 attending planning meetings in Malaysia 00:10:30.639 --> 00:10:33.919 and intended to travel to the United 00:10:32.440 --> 00:10:36.160 States. 00:10:33.919 --> 00:10:39.079 John O'Neill never saw all the marbles. 00:10:36.159 --> 00:10:41.279 In mid-2001, he left the FBI partially 00:10:39.080 --> 00:10:43.240 out of frustration and took a high-paid 00:10:41.279 --> 00:10:45.836 job in the private sector, head of 00:10:43.240 --> 00:10:46.000 security for the World Trade Center. 00:10:45.836 --> 00:10:49.200 >> [music] 00:10:46.000 --> 00:10:53.839 >> He died in the center's South Tower on 00:10:49.200 --> 00:10:57.080 September 11th, 2001, just 3 weeks into 00:10:53.839 --> 00:10:58.240 the job. The coincidence there is just 00:10:57.080 --> 00:10:59.120 unbelievable. You couldn't write You 00:10:58.240 --> 00:11:01.399 couldn't 00:10:59.120 --> 00:11:03.480 You know, write about it. I mean, that's 00:11:01.399 --> 00:11:06.519 from the guy that identified Osama bin 00:11:03.480 --> 00:11:08.360 Laden as a villain that he was 00:11:06.519 --> 00:11:09.319 and then the fact that 00:11:08.360 --> 00:11:11.519 that 00:11:09.320 --> 00:11:15.520 Osama bin Laden was able to kill him. 00:11:11.519 --> 00:11:15.519 It's It's just amazing. 00:11:15.879 --> 00:11:19.519 Now, if you were around back then, 00:11:18.279 --> 00:11:21.759 you'll remember that there was 00:11:19.519 --> 00:11:23.679 understandable concern that something 00:11:21.759 --> 00:11:25.439 like this might happen again. 00:11:23.679 --> 00:11:27.439 A lot of changes were made to try and 00:11:25.440 --> 00:11:28.839 make people feel safe from terror 00:11:27.440 --> 00:11:30.080 attacks. 00:11:28.839 --> 00:11:31.240 And a lot of those changes were quite 00:11:30.080 --> 00:11:33.879 annoying. 00:11:31.240 --> 00:11:35.360 The sort of sense I had was that uh the 00:11:33.879 --> 00:11:38.360 way we were going with just, you know, 00:11:35.360 --> 00:11:41.680 ridiculous airport security checks and 00:11:38.360 --> 00:11:43.519 uh super intrusive um surveillance all 00:11:41.679 --> 00:11:45.719 the time, you know, wasn't really making 00:11:43.519 --> 00:11:48.439 us safer. This is tech billionaire Peter 00:11:45.720 --> 00:11:50.360 Thiel, who has some complicated opinions 00:11:48.440 --> 00:11:52.000 about how the world should be run, which 00:11:50.360 --> 00:11:54.080 we'll get into in the next episode of 00:11:52.000 --> 00:11:55.120 our series. But, let's just say at this 00:11:54.080 --> 00:11:57.040 stage 00:11:55.120 --> 00:11:59.279 he wasn't a fan of the government trying 00:11:57.039 --> 00:12:02.120 to intrude into people's lives in the 00:11:59.279 --> 00:12:03.399 name of trying to stop terrorism. 00:12:02.120 --> 00:12:06.080 He was concerned that if there were 00:12:03.399 --> 00:12:07.720 another attack along the lines of 9/11, 00:12:06.080 --> 00:12:10.333 the government would try to become even 00:12:07.720 --> 00:12:12.080 more intrusive. If the World Trade 00:12:10.332 --> 00:12:14.480 [music] Center would erode civil 00:12:12.080 --> 00:12:15.560 liberties as much as it did in 2001, I 00:12:14.480 --> 00:12:17.159 didn't even want to think what would 00:12:15.559 --> 00:12:19.559 happen if you had another terrorist 00:12:17.159 --> 00:12:22.039 attack. And so, you have to prevent it 00:12:19.559 --> 00:12:24.439 to to stop to stop more erosion. He was 00:12:22.039 --> 00:12:26.959 more in favor of the liberty side of 00:12:24.440 --> 00:12:28.018 John O'Neill's ordered liberty seesaw. 00:12:26.960 --> 00:12:28.160 Could one 00:12:28.018 --> 00:12:31.480 >> [music] 00:12:28.159 --> 00:12:33.279 >> do something from a libertarian or civil 00:12:31.480 --> 00:12:35.639 liberties point of view [music] that 00:12:33.279 --> 00:12:37.838 would still be, you know, tough on 00:12:35.639 --> 00:12:40.960 terrorism? He and a friend named Alex 00:12:37.839 --> 00:12:42.360 Karp started focusing on the marbles. 00:12:40.960 --> 00:12:44.160 The government already had a lot of the 00:12:42.360 --> 00:12:46.360 information it needed to prevent terror 00:12:44.159 --> 00:12:47.668 attacks. It was just spread across all 00:12:46.360 --> 00:12:48.440 these different jars. 00:12:47.668 --> 00:12:50.080 >> [music] 00:12:48.440 --> 00:12:52.040 >> It wasn't using the information 00:12:50.080 --> 00:12:55.440 efficiently. Silicon Valley ought to be 00:12:52.039 --> 00:12:57.039 involved in in in fighting terrorism and 00:12:55.440 --> 00:12:58.839 protecting our civil liberties. Thiel 00:12:57.039 --> 00:13:01.279 and Karp founded a company called 00:12:58.839 --> 00:13:03.440 Palantir, named after Saruman's 00:13:01.279 --> 00:13:06.039 all-seeing glass ball from Lord of the 00:13:03.440 --> 00:13:07.600 Rings. A palantir is a dangerous tool, 00:13:06.039 --> 00:13:09.719 Saruman. 00:13:07.600 --> 00:13:12.279 Now, naming your nascent tech company 00:13:09.720 --> 00:13:13.839 after a tool used by the very bad guy 00:13:12.279 --> 00:13:15.679 trying to take over Middle-earth is an 00:13:13.839 --> 00:13:18.000 interesting decision, but we'll 00:13:15.679 --> 00:13:19.799 again, get to that a little bit later. 00:13:18.000 --> 00:13:21.919 As far as Alex Karp and Peter Thiel were 00:13:19.799 --> 00:13:24.599 concerned, the company was designed to 00:13:21.919 --> 00:13:27.199 break open all the jars of marbles, 00:13:24.600 --> 00:13:29.159 spill them out onto on surface, and make 00:13:27.200 --> 00:13:31.920 sense of whatever came out. It would 00:13:29.159 --> 00:13:33.399 allow humans to find needles in 00:13:31.919 --> 00:13:34.839 haystacks. So, make the data 00:13:33.399 --> 00:13:35.483 intelligible to you and me, which it's 00:13:34.840 --> 00:13:35.600 not. 00:13:35.484 --> 00:13:37.040 >> [music] 00:13:35.600 --> 00:13:39.320 >> And by doing that, it would allow them 00:13:37.039 --> 00:13:40.068 to find bad people trying to destroy our 00:13:39.320 --> 00:13:40.200 society 00:13:40.068 --> 00:13:42.399 >> [music] 00:13:40.200 --> 00:13:43.720 >> and could be used also to protect civil 00:13:42.399 --> 00:13:46.240 liberties by making the data sets 00:13:43.720 --> 00:13:48.560 transparent. Palantir's first investor 00:13:46.240 --> 00:13:50.519 was the CIA. 00:13:48.559 --> 00:13:52.919 It's been widely reported, though never 00:13:50.519 --> 00:13:55.399 officially confirmed, that in 2011 00:13:52.919 --> 00:13:57.519 Palantir played a key role in processing 00:13:55.399 --> 00:14:00.039 information which led to the killing of 00:13:57.519 --> 00:14:01.028 Osama bin Laden in his secret compound 00:14:00.039 --> 00:14:01.159 in Pakistan. 00:14:01.028 --> 00:14:03.799 >> [music] 00:14:01.159 --> 00:14:06.919 >> Palantir, uh, for example, effectively 00:14:03.799 --> 00:14:08.233 vectored Osama bin Laden's location. So, 00:14:06.919 --> 00:14:08.319 How exactly 00:14:08.234 --> 00:14:11.040 >> [music] 00:14:08.320 --> 00:14:12.600 >> does it work? 00:14:11.039 --> 00:14:15.719 For the first decade of Palantir's 00:14:12.600 --> 00:14:17.840 existence, basically nobody knew who 00:14:15.720 --> 00:14:19.840 they were or what they did. They didn't 00:14:17.840 --> 00:14:22.399 even start posting on social media until 00:14:19.840 --> 00:14:24.960 2015. A person can [music] see a pattern 00:14:22.399 --> 00:14:27.120 in a hundred things, but it's very hard 00:14:24.960 --> 00:14:29.280 for them to see a pattern in a million. 00:14:27.120 --> 00:14:31.240 The company embedded technical experts 00:14:29.279 --> 00:14:33.559 inside classified US intelligence 00:14:31.240 --> 00:14:35.600 operations and facilities, trying to 00:14:33.559 --> 00:14:38.199 access as many different information 00:14:35.600 --> 00:14:40.879 sources as possible and figure out how 00:14:38.200 --> 00:14:42.600 they relate to each other. Sticking with 00:14:40.879 --> 00:14:45.799 the [snorts] marble metaphor, it worked 00:14:42.600 --> 00:14:47.960 like this. Think of this plastic box as 00:14:45.799 --> 00:14:50.159 Palantir. 00:14:47.960 --> 00:14:52.280 Rather than everything being siloed in 00:14:50.159 --> 00:14:54.838 individual jars, Palantir had the 00:14:52.279 --> 00:14:57.480 capacity to empty all the marbles out 00:14:54.839 --> 00:14:57.480 like this. 00:14:57.919 --> 00:15:03.719 And then sort the marbles more logically 00:15:00.879 --> 00:15:06.639 and identify patterns 00:15:03.720 --> 00:15:09.800 and connections. So, it meant that the 00:15:06.639 --> 00:15:12.559 CIA marbles 00:15:09.799 --> 00:15:13.519 could be connected with the FBI marbles 00:15:12.559 --> 00:15:16.959 here. 00:15:13.519 --> 00:15:20.199 And it meant that the NSA marbles 00:15:16.960 --> 00:15:20.200 could be mixed in as well. 00:15:20.639 --> 00:15:25.439 Sorted, organized. Gee, they have a lot 00:15:23.039 --> 00:15:27.879 of marbles. Like really what it is is 00:15:25.440 --> 00:15:29.880 creating a unified view 00:15:27.879 --> 00:15:31.039 over lots of disparate data sources 00:15:29.879 --> 00:15:32.879 which don't otherwise make sense 00:15:31.039 --> 00:15:35.319 together. The reason they had so little 00:15:32.879 --> 00:15:37.960 public presence is that they really only 00:15:35.320 --> 00:15:39.560 had one customer, the US government. 00:15:37.960 --> 00:15:41.280 >> Fighting ISIS, stopping human 00:15:39.559 --> 00:15:43.159 trafficking, supporting money laundering 00:15:41.279 --> 00:15:45.919 investigations. Working with the special 00:15:43.159 --> 00:15:47.879 forces, law enforcement, the DOJ. 00:15:45.919 --> 00:15:50.279 According to their marketing, Palantir 00:15:47.879 --> 00:15:53.080 was all about organizing information in 00:15:50.279 --> 00:15:55.439 a way that humans would find more 00:15:53.080 --> 00:15:57.480 intuitive. Humans are incredible at 00:15:55.440 --> 00:15:59.000 insight. It's just surfacing the right 00:15:57.480 --> 00:16:01.039 information for them to see. They were 00:15:59.000 --> 00:16:03.279 effectively creating an enormous 00:16:01.039 --> 00:16:05.519 self-updating PowerPoint slide which 00:16:03.279 --> 00:16:06.919 could be used by humans 00:16:05.519 --> 00:16:09.000 to 00:16:06.919 --> 00:16:10.919 find patterns, 00:16:09.000 --> 00:16:13.480 find a pattern there, 00:16:10.919 --> 00:16:14.919 circle that, connect that, 00:16:13.480 --> 00:16:16.080 and kind of figure out what was really 00:16:14.919 --> 00:16:18.120 going on. 00:16:16.080 --> 00:16:19.879 Using Palantir software was like looking 00:16:18.120 --> 00:16:22.360 down on the world from above with 00:16:19.879 --> 00:16:25.120 information displayed on a large flat 00:16:22.360 --> 00:16:26.600 map that you could interact with. An ICE 00:16:25.120 --> 00:16:28.440 official said it's basically like a 00:16:26.600 --> 00:16:30.240 Google's map interface where you can 00:16:28.440 --> 00:16:32.400 look around the United States, you can 00:16:30.240 --> 00:16:34.519 zoom in on targets. You then click on an 00:16:32.399 --> 00:16:36.120 individual person and it brings up their 00:16:34.519 --> 00:16:37.519 name, a photo. 00:16:36.120 --> 00:16:39.159 >> We'll get into how it's being used for 00:16:37.519 --> 00:16:40.279 immigration enforcement in our next 00:16:39.159 --> 00:16:43.679 episode, but looking at it 00:16:40.279 --> 00:16:45.399 dispassionately, it's clearly impressive 00:16:43.679 --> 00:16:47.079 software. 00:16:45.399 --> 00:16:48.439 Way better than the PowerPoint 00:16:47.080 --> 00:16:49.400 nightmares they used to have to deal 00:16:48.440 --> 00:16:51.240 with. 00:16:49.399 --> 00:16:54.519 But programming these maps which 00:16:51.240 --> 00:16:57.639 Palantir calls the ontology was slow, 00:16:54.519 --> 00:17:00.879 painstaking work. It involved writing 00:16:57.639 --> 00:17:03.399 enormous amounts of code in incredibly 00:17:00.879 --> 00:17:05.599 complicated software. 00:17:03.399 --> 00:17:07.279 And talking to a lot of different people 00:17:05.599 --> 00:17:09.838 so that they didn't overemphasize the 00:17:07.279 --> 00:17:12.279 importance of one particular data source 00:17:09.838 --> 00:17:14.399 or ignore another one. 00:17:12.279 --> 00:17:17.199 It also didn't entirely solve the marble 00:17:14.400 --> 00:17:19.600 jar problem because each industry needed 00:17:17.199 --> 00:17:21.240 information laid out in different ways, 00:17:19.599 --> 00:17:23.679 the systems didn't talk to each other 00:17:21.240 --> 00:17:25.519 perfectly. For instance, Gotham, 00:17:23.680 --> 00:17:27.439 Palantir's military and law enforcement 00:17:25.519 --> 00:17:28.960 software, was different from its 00:17:27.439 --> 00:17:30.320 logistics software, which was called 00:17:28.960 --> 00:17:32.319 Foundry. 00:17:30.319 --> 00:17:34.839 But then something came along that put 00:17:32.319 --> 00:17:36.960 Palantir's marble sorting tech into 00:17:34.839 --> 00:17:40.079 hyperdrive. Let's start with this 00:17:36.960 --> 00:17:41.920 language AI chat GPT. 00:17:40.079 --> 00:17:44.319 What is it? 00:17:41.920 --> 00:17:45.640 Great question. In 2022, people were 00:17:44.319 --> 00:17:48.599 starting to get excited about the 00:17:45.640 --> 00:17:51.040 potential uses of large language models 00:17:48.599 --> 00:17:53.759 like chat GPT. It can create custom 00:17:51.039 --> 00:17:55.119 code. It can create entire books that 00:17:53.759 --> 00:17:57.559 are written from scratch that are not 00:17:55.119 --> 00:18:00.000 plagiarized. It can write essays. Wow, 00:17:57.559 --> 00:18:01.119 that really is amazing. But at Palantir, 00:18:00.000 --> 00:18:02.519 they were quickly coming to a 00:18:01.119 --> 00:18:05.119 realization. 00:18:02.519 --> 00:18:07.359 They'd been building software that was 00:18:05.119 --> 00:18:09.000 to be used by humans. 00:18:07.359 --> 00:18:11.599 But the way they'd built it was also 00:18:09.000 --> 00:18:13.240 perfect for large language models. We 00:18:11.599 --> 00:18:15.439 were pleasantly surprised to see how 00:18:13.240 --> 00:18:17.839 much the world we had been building for 00:18:15.440 --> 00:18:20.000 met its moment with LLMs. Palantir's 00:18:17.839 --> 00:18:23.159 chief technology officer, Shyam Sankar, 00:18:20.000 --> 00:18:24.799 said that LLMs, large language models, 00:18:23.160 --> 00:18:25.880 weren't just great at reading their data 00:18:24.799 --> 00:18:28.039 maps, 00:18:25.880 --> 00:18:29.720 but needed their data maps in order to 00:18:28.039 --> 00:18:31.960 be reliable. It's like, "Wow, you 00:18:29.720 --> 00:18:34.240 actually cannot unleash the value of an 00:18:31.960 --> 00:18:37.319 LLM without these things." They had, 00:18:34.240 --> 00:18:39.400 purely by luck, spent 20 years building 00:18:37.319 --> 00:18:41.960 a system that organized data in a way 00:18:39.400 --> 00:18:44.440 that could be intuitively read by the 00:18:41.960 --> 00:18:47.120 new wave of AI systems. 00:18:44.440 --> 00:18:49.720 And it was laid out in an ideal way for 00:18:47.119 --> 00:18:52.000 the AI system to produce reliable 00:18:49.720 --> 00:18:54.319 information. By January, it was quite 00:18:52.000 --> 00:18:56.640 obvious that we needed to tear up all 00:18:54.319 --> 00:18:58.480 our road maps and get excited about how 00:18:56.640 --> 00:19:00.360 we could incorporate LLMs into our 00:18:58.480 --> 00:19:02.160 software to provide a whole new series 00:19:00.359 --> 00:19:05.079 of experiences. They developed something 00:19:02.160 --> 00:19:07.279 called the Palantir AIP, which stands 00:19:05.079 --> 00:19:08.599 for artificial intelligence platform. 00:19:07.279 --> 00:19:10.799 AIP 00:19:08.599 --> 00:19:13.359 is your 00:19:10.799 --> 00:19:15.519 AI operating system. Now, individual 00:19:13.359 --> 00:19:18.359 users didn't need to look at the marble 00:19:15.519 --> 00:19:20.839 map at all. You can just use AIP, which 00:19:18.359 --> 00:19:23.639 sits on top of the marble map and looks 00:19:20.839 --> 00:19:24.720 at it for you, far faster than any human 00:19:23.640 --> 00:19:26.680 could. 00:19:24.720 --> 00:19:28.519 We start with a military operator 00:19:26.680 --> 00:19:29.720 responsible for monitoring activity 00:19:28.519 --> 00:19:31.920 within [music] Eastern Europe. 00:19:29.720 --> 00:19:32.640 >> To use it, all you have to do is ask it 00:19:31.920 --> 00:19:34.519 a question. 00:19:32.640 --> 00:19:36.840 >> What enemy units are in the region? 00:19:34.519 --> 00:19:39.240 >> The human operator can ask AIP in plain 00:19:36.839 --> 00:19:41.799 English to deploy surveillance drones. 00:19:39.240 --> 00:19:43.799 >> Task the MQ-9 to capture video of this 00:19:41.799 --> 00:19:46.399 location. The drone footage shows an 00:19:43.799 --> 00:19:48.039 enemy T-80 main battle tank. Then the 00:19:46.400 --> 00:19:49.960 operator can ask it to look at what 00:19:48.039 --> 00:19:52.039 options are available in the area to 00:19:49.960 --> 00:19:54.160 destroy that tank. Generate three 00:19:52.039 --> 00:19:56.079 courses of action to target this enemy 00:19:54.160 --> 00:19:58.120 equipment. Send these three options to 00:19:56.079 --> 00:20:00.439 my commander for review. Our commander 00:19:58.119 --> 00:20:03.000 selects a course of action. Approve 00:20:00.440 --> 00:20:05.279 course of action three. 00:20:03.000 --> 00:20:07.160 Until pretty recently, executing this 00:20:05.279 --> 00:20:09.559 kind of operation would have required 00:20:07.160 --> 00:20:11.400 big maps being rolled out on tables and 00:20:09.559 --> 00:20:13.879 little wooden figures pushed around on 00:20:11.400 --> 00:20:16.320 top, phone calls right up and down the 00:20:13.880 --> 00:20:18.680 chain of command. No man makes a perfect 00:20:16.319 --> 00:20:21.599 plan, Keith. AIP allows it all to be 00:20:18.680 --> 00:20:23.680 done as easily as asking ChatGPT to plan 00:20:21.599 --> 00:20:26.000 your holiday to Queensland. Of course, 00:20:23.680 --> 00:20:27.920 Matt. I can help you plan your holiday 00:20:26.000 --> 00:20:30.640 to Queensland. You're going to have such 00:20:27.920 --> 00:20:32.724 a great time. Not only can AI be used to 00:20:30.640 --> 00:20:32.840 operate the Palantir software, 00:20:32.723 --> 00:20:35.079 >> [music] 00:20:32.839 --> 00:20:37.039 >> it can also be used to design it. What 00:20:35.079 --> 00:20:39.000 once took software engineers years of 00:20:37.039 --> 00:20:41.240 observing operations and writing code 00:20:39.000 --> 00:20:44.039 now takes weeks. 00:20:41.240 --> 00:20:46.960 This rapid increase in efficiency meant 00:20:44.039 --> 00:20:49.559 that suddenly Palantir had a lot of 00:20:46.960 --> 00:20:52.559 extra time and resources on its hands. 00:20:49.559 --> 00:20:54.399 So, it started expanding. [music] 00:20:52.559 --> 00:20:55.879 Previously, pretty much only the US 00:20:54.400 --> 00:20:57.120 government could afford Palantir's 00:20:55.880 --> 00:21:00.040 services. [music] 00:20:57.119 --> 00:21:02.079 Now, it's getting into everything. 00:21:00.039 --> 00:21:03.839 ExxonMobil is adding powerful new 00:21:02.079 --> 00:21:04.720 features by partnering with Palantir 00:21:03.839 --> 00:21:06.128 Technologies. 00:21:04.720 --> 00:21:08.759 >> Today, we're in the world of customer 00:21:06.128 --> 00:21:09.480 [music] service focusing on AIP customer 00:21:08.759 --> 00:21:11.200 service engine. 00:21:09.480 --> 00:21:13.720 >> So, what do you think your local Coles 00:21:11.200 --> 00:21:16.000 has in common with the CIA? 00:21:13.720 --> 00:21:17.680 Well, they both use Palantir. With 00:21:16.000 --> 00:21:19.920 Palantir as the platform for making 00:21:17.680 --> 00:21:21.560 cricket the number one team bat and ball 00:21:19.920 --> 00:21:23.160 sport in [music] Europe. I have to say 00:21:21.559 --> 00:21:25.240 the European cricket network has got to 00:21:23.160 --> 00:21:27.080 be the most out of pocket of Palantir's 00:21:25.240 --> 00:21:28.400 clients. With our entrepreneurial 00:21:27.079 --> 00:21:30.480 intuition, we can now use [music] 00:21:28.400 --> 00:21:32.680 Palantir to ask the right questions of 00:21:30.480 --> 00:21:35.519 the data all in one place. Well, if they 00:21:32.680 --> 00:21:37.039 can sort out the FBI and CIA's marbles, 00:21:35.519 --> 00:21:38.759 they can probably handle the European 00:21:37.039 --> 00:21:41.920 cricket networks. 00:21:38.759 --> 00:21:43.879 This rapid expansion in clients made 00:21:41.920 --> 00:21:46.120 markets extremely excited about 00:21:43.880 --> 00:21:48.280 Palantir's potential future profits. 00:21:46.119 --> 00:21:50.359 >> stocks have moved pretty ferociously 00:21:48.279 --> 00:21:53.944 here um in the last couple of months. In 00:21:50.359 --> 00:21:58.399 2023, Palantir stock jumped 167% 00:21:53.944 --> 00:22:00.559 [music] in 2024, it jumped by 340%. 00:21:58.400 --> 00:22:02.460 I think there's a golden path right now 00:22:00.559 --> 00:22:02.519 for them to monetize 00:22:02.460 --> 00:22:03.640 >> [music] 00:22:02.519 --> 00:22:06.079 >> what we view as potentially a 00:22:03.640 --> 00:22:07.880 trillion-dollar market opportunity. It's 00:22:06.079 --> 00:22:10.240 become one of the fastest-growing 00:22:07.880 --> 00:22:11.800 companies on Earth with clients all over 00:22:10.240 --> 00:22:13.400 the world, including government 00:22:11.799 --> 00:22:14.680 contracts in lots of different 00:22:13.400 --> 00:22:16.519 countries. 00:22:14.680 --> 00:22:18.640 And it's basically just a glorified 00:22:16.519 --> 00:22:20.839 version of that PowerPoint slide General 00:22:18.640 --> 00:22:22.680 McChrystal was considering during the 00:22:20.839 --> 00:22:24.639 war in Afghanistan. 00:22:22.680 --> 00:22:26.960 It was designed to help keep the balance 00:22:24.640 --> 00:22:29.600 that FBI agent John O'Neill thought was 00:22:26.960 --> 00:22:30.840 so important. And this great experiment 00:22:29.599 --> 00:22:32.000 that we call the United States of 00:22:30.839 --> 00:22:35.159 America 00:22:32.000 --> 00:22:36.519 has a perfect blend of ordered liberty. 00:22:35.160 --> 00:22:38.920 He wanted to make sure that the seesaw 00:22:36.519 --> 00:22:41.039 didn't go too far one way or the other. 00:22:38.920 --> 00:22:43.279 If you have a lot of order, there is 00:22:41.039 --> 00:22:45.480 very little liberty. 00:22:43.279 --> 00:22:47.759 And if you have a lot of liberty, 00:22:45.480 --> 00:22:48.920 there tends to be less order. But a lot 00:22:47.759 --> 00:22:51.640 of people are starting to think that 00:22:48.920 --> 00:22:55.120 Palantir is tipping the balance towards 00:22:51.640 --> 00:22:58.080 order and away from liberty. Ladies and 00:22:55.119 --> 00:22:59.759 gentlemen, this is scary. This is us 00:22:58.079 --> 00:23:01.599 moving towards what China is doing to 00:22:59.759 --> 00:23:04.000 their citizens. People are really quite 00:23:01.599 --> 00:23:05.000 scared of this company. The Palantir 00:23:04.000 --> 00:23:07.640 surveillance state. 00:23:05.000 --> 00:23:09.559 >> Palantir is a definite CIA front 00:23:07.640 --> 00:23:11.520 company. There are more conspiracy 00:23:09.559 --> 00:23:13.679 theories swirling around about Palantir 00:23:11.519 --> 00:23:15.720 than any other Silicon Valley company. 00:23:13.680 --> 00:23:17.960 >> Peter Thiel and his company Palantir are 00:23:15.720 --> 00:23:20.240 some of the most evil forces on our 00:23:17.960 --> 00:23:20.759 planet conspiring against the American 00:23:20.240 --> 00:23:23.640 people. 00:23:20.759 --> 00:23:25.720 >> Palantir is like a surveillance and 00:23:23.640 --> 00:23:29.080 predictive policing firm. 00:23:25.720 --> 00:23:32.039 >> Palantir, an organization that is run 00:23:29.079 --> 00:23:33.919 also by a Zionist psychopath. And that's 00:23:32.039 --> 00:23:36.799 because even though it really is just a 00:23:33.920 --> 00:23:38.800 very fancy PowerPoint slide which makes 00:23:36.799 --> 00:23:40.639 intelligence, military, logistics, 00:23:38.799 --> 00:23:43.319 customer service, and cricketing 00:23:40.640 --> 00:23:46.520 operations more efficient, its leaders 00:23:43.319 --> 00:23:48.720 have decided to create a kind of weird 00:23:46.519 --> 00:23:50.480 public image. We have dedicated our 00:23:48.720 --> 00:23:51.720 company to the service of the West and 00:23:50.480 --> 00:23:54.000 the United States of [music] America. 00:23:51.720 --> 00:23:56.519 Palantir is here 00:23:54.000 --> 00:23:59.680 to disrupt and when it's necessary to 00:23:56.519 --> 00:24:02.359 scare enemies and on occasion kill them. 00:23:59.680 --> 00:24:03.640 And we hope you're in favor of that. So, 00:24:02.359 --> 00:24:06.559 I think it's important to spend some 00:24:03.640 --> 00:24:09.960 time talking about this guy, Alex Karp, 00:24:06.559 --> 00:24:12.079 and what he wants to do with his company 00:24:09.960 --> 00:24:13.319 that now controls so much of the world's 00:24:12.079 --> 00:24:14.960 data. 00:24:13.319 --> 00:24:16.480 But we're not going to do it today. 00:24:14.960 --> 00:24:18.960 We're going to spend our whole next 00:24:16.480 --> 00:24:22.480 episode on it. And we hope you're in 00:24:18.960 --> 00:24:22.480 favor of that. We'll see you then. 00:24:35.730 --> 00:24:37.751 >> [music]