WEBVTT 00:00:00.960 --> 00:00:03.040 Brian Cox, welcome. 00:00:02.480 --> 00:00:04.400 >> Thank you. 00:00:03.040 --> 00:00:06.640 >> It's particularly nice to have you in 00:00:04.400 --> 00:00:09.199 the studio, not down the line somewhere. 00:00:06.639 --> 00:00:11.120 Yeah. In a hotel room. Um, I just wanted 00:00:09.199 --> 00:00:13.839 to start by talking about your uh 00:00:11.119 --> 00:00:15.919 Australia and its skies because you're 00:00:13.839 --> 00:00:17.440 here. Why is Australia a great place for 00:00:15.919 --> 00:00:19.278 stargazers? 00:00:17.440 --> 00:00:20.720 >> Well, part of it is the geometry of the 00:00:19.278 --> 00:00:22.719 solar system. So, the southern 00:00:20.719 --> 00:00:25.439 hemisphere points towards the galactic 00:00:22.719 --> 00:00:26.879 center. So, the Milky Way is far richer. 00:00:25.439 --> 00:00:29.518 If you come from the north, you're 00:00:26.879 --> 00:00:31.118 dazzled by the Milky Way here because 00:00:29.518 --> 00:00:33.519 Australia points towards the galactic 00:00:31.118 --> 00:00:35.280 center. And you also have the two 00:00:33.520 --> 00:00:38.320 satellite galaxies of the Milky Way, the 00:00:35.280 --> 00:00:39.920 Melanic clouds, which um just dominate 00:00:38.320 --> 00:00:41.280 the sky, beautiful things which you 00:00:39.920 --> 00:00:43.039 can't see from the north. So in the 00:00:41.280 --> 00:00:45.920 north, we're pointing outwards to the 00:00:43.039 --> 00:00:48.399 outer sort of backwaters of our galaxy. 00:00:45.920 --> 00:00:50.879 So you're very lucky here. So for 00:00:48.399 --> 00:00:55.359 someone who's never gone out and looked 00:00:50.878 --> 00:00:57.198 at the stars with any particular focus, 00:00:55.359 --> 00:00:59.359 what is it that looking at the stars, 00:00:57.198 --> 00:01:02.479 what does it do to you, to your mind? 00:00:59.359 --> 00:01:04.159 >> Oh, it's it's it's always been um it's 00:01:02.479 --> 00:01:06.719 the thing that got me into science in 00:01:04.159 --> 00:01:08.320 the first place. Um so for some reason 00:01:06.719 --> 00:01:11.200 when I was very young and I don't know 00:01:08.319 --> 00:01:13.519 why I became fascinated by these points 00:01:11.200 --> 00:01:14.960 of light in the sky and it's an example 00:01:13.519 --> 00:01:16.560 of something that's common I think 00:01:14.959 --> 00:01:19.759 throughout science which is the more you 00:01:16.560 --> 00:01:22.400 know the more magical it becomes. So for 00:01:19.759 --> 00:01:24.159 example now we know that I would say 00:01:22.400 --> 00:01:26.799 pretty much every star you see in the 00:01:24.159 --> 00:01:28.240 night sky has planets which we we now we 00:01:26.799 --> 00:01:31.040 didn't know that when I was growing up 00:01:28.239 --> 00:01:32.959 in the 1970s but we know it now. So you 00:01:31.040 --> 00:01:35.040 your imagination can begin to wander 00:01:32.959 --> 00:01:36.959 that they're all solar systems. Every 00:01:35.040 --> 00:01:38.880 single one of them is a solar system. 00:01:36.959 --> 00:01:40.798 Then you start thinking well you know 00:01:38.879 --> 00:01:42.319 are the planets with oceans on them and 00:01:40.799 --> 00:01:44.640 if there's oceans on the planets is 00:01:42.319 --> 00:01:46.239 there life out there beyond beyond our 00:01:44.640 --> 00:01:49.118 solar system beyond the earth and so on. 00:01:46.239 --> 00:01:51.839 So I think it's um it's a it's a science 00:01:49.118 --> 00:01:54.560 that you can do from your back garden as 00:01:51.840 --> 00:01:56.159 you said and it's a science that allows 00:01:54.560 --> 00:01:58.240 your imagination to wander. 00:01:56.159 --> 00:02:00.479 >> So is that what it does? We understand a 00:01:58.239 --> 00:02:02.158 little of what it did to you to put you 00:02:00.478 --> 00:02:04.399 on the journey that you're on, but for 00:02:02.159 --> 00:02:07.280 someone doing it for the first time, how 00:02:04.399 --> 00:02:09.520 much does it change you to have that 00:02:07.280 --> 00:02:11.680 sense of wonder in the sky? 00:02:09.520 --> 00:02:14.640 >> I think it's it's a good question. I 00:02:11.680 --> 00:02:17.360 think astronomy has always been in part 00:02:14.639 --> 00:02:20.079 about our place in initially with our 00:02:17.360 --> 00:02:22.560 place in creation. My my show starts 00:02:20.080 --> 00:02:24.400 actually in around 1600 people like 00:02:22.560 --> 00:02:26.878 Galileo and Kepler laying the 00:02:24.400 --> 00:02:29.280 foundations of the modern science modern 00:02:26.878 --> 00:02:31.919 science at the time cosmology was 00:02:29.280 --> 00:02:34.239 Aristotle's cosmology that so the earth 00:02:31.919 --> 00:02:36.559 is motionless at the center of a finite 00:02:34.239 --> 00:02:40.000 universe nothing changes beyond the 00:02:36.560 --> 00:02:42.479 orbit of the moon and this is 1600 and 00:02:40.000 --> 00:02:44.719 within a few decades we have Newton's 00:02:42.479 --> 00:02:46.719 law of universal gravitation and within 00:02:44.719 --> 00:02:49.439 a few centuries we've discovered that 00:02:46.719 --> 00:02:51.439 there are two trillion galaxies in the 00:02:49.439 --> 00:02:53.519 observable universe 00:02:51.439 --> 00:02:56.079 the universe 13.8 8 billion years since 00:02:53.519 --> 00:02:58.159 the big bang. That raises questions 00:02:56.080 --> 00:03:00.400 though to your to your question because 00:02:58.159 --> 00:03:03.199 obviously then you immediately say what 00:03:00.400 --> 00:03:05.120 is our place and I think astronomy and 00:03:03.199 --> 00:03:08.000 cosmology are the two sciences that 00:03:05.120 --> 00:03:10.239 really force you to ask that question. 00:03:08.000 --> 00:03:12.158 What is the value of of of our 00:03:10.239 --> 00:03:14.158 civilization? What is our place in that 00:03:12.158 --> 00:03:16.000 vast universe? So what happens to that 00:03:14.158 --> 00:03:18.639 question if you say that's 400 years 00:03:16.000 --> 00:03:20.878 that we got from Galileo and his 00:03:18.639 --> 00:03:23.518 telescope 00:03:20.878 --> 00:03:27.280 to now to conceiving of the possibility 00:03:23.519 --> 00:03:31.120 of of humans living on the moon even the 00:03:27.280 --> 00:03:33.680 remoter notion of a colony on Mars if we 00:03:31.120 --> 00:03:35.120 survive what's another 400 years going 00:03:33.680 --> 00:03:37.840 to bring us 00:03:35.120 --> 00:03:40.158 >> you know that that's also a very great 00:03:37.840 --> 00:03:42.239 question because it it feeds so I would 00:03:40.158 --> 00:03:45.199 say it will take us to the stars if we 00:03:42.239 --> 00:03:47.360 carry on at this rate of progress just a 00:03:45.199 --> 00:03:50.000 few centuries. We've already got two 00:03:47.360 --> 00:03:52.560 spacecraft now in interstellar space 00:03:50.000 --> 00:03:53.919 that we are communicating with primarily 00:03:52.560 --> 00:03:55.920 actually through the deep space network 00:03:53.919 --> 00:03:57.679 in Canberra. So that's pointing towards 00:03:55.919 --> 00:04:00.559 those telescopes that those um 00:03:57.680 --> 00:04:02.080 spacecraft. So in in 400 years of modern 00:04:00.560 --> 00:04:04.158 science, we've gone beyond our solar 00:04:02.080 --> 00:04:05.920 system. So you're right, we should be 00:04:04.158 --> 00:04:08.560 voyaging to the stars in the next few 00:04:05.919 --> 00:04:09.839 centuries if we survive. does raise an 00:04:08.560 --> 00:04:11.920 interesting question that actually which 00:04:09.840 --> 00:04:13.920 is why does nobody else appear to have 00:04:11.919 --> 00:04:16.159 done that which is sometimes called the 00:04:13.919 --> 00:04:18.560 Fermy paradox which I do discuss in the 00:04:16.160 --> 00:04:20.799 show. It's one of the I I I think it's 00:04:18.560 --> 00:04:23.360 one of the most puzzling observations we 00:04:20.798 --> 00:04:25.359 have made that as far as we can tell 00:04:23.360 --> 00:04:27.759 there isn't anybody else out there. 00:04:25.360 --> 00:04:30.240 >> I I noticed that you said a friend of 00:04:27.759 --> 00:04:31.680 yours, a biologist I think said don't 00:04:30.240 --> 00:04:34.720 worry about it. It's just if there's 00:04:31.680 --> 00:04:36.639 anything out there it's slime. Could he 00:04:34.720 --> 00:04:38.720 could he be wrong? 00:04:36.639 --> 00:04:41.360 Absolutely. I mean it could, you know, 00:04:38.720 --> 00:04:43.600 we we systematically look for signs of 00:04:41.360 --> 00:04:45.680 other civilizations. It's called SETI 00:04:43.600 --> 00:04:47.680 and it's we use radio telescopes like 00:04:45.680 --> 00:04:49.439 the parks telescope here in Australia 00:04:47.680 --> 00:04:51.199 and we we listen and we look for 00:04:49.439 --> 00:04:53.759 signals. So the reason we do that is 00:04:51.199 --> 00:04:55.520 because we would not be surprised if we 00:04:53.759 --> 00:04:57.040 saw something tomorrow. But it's 00:04:55.519 --> 00:04:58.399 actually you said don't wor it's 00:04:57.040 --> 00:05:00.960 interesting you said don't worry it's 00:04:58.399 --> 00:05:01.359 all slime. I would worry if if 00:05:00.959 --> 00:05:03.439 everything 00:05:01.360 --> 00:05:06.639 >> if we are alone. Well, yeah, because 00:05:03.439 --> 00:05:10.478 then in in some sense I would say that 00:05:06.639 --> 00:05:13.120 we have the responsibility to um allow 00:05:10.478 --> 00:05:15.120 meaning to persist in a galaxy of 400 00:05:13.120 --> 00:05:17.600 billion suns. We're the only intelligent 00:05:15.120 --> 00:05:20.560 civilization of weight on our shoulders. 00:05:17.600 --> 00:05:22.960 >> Yes, indeed. So, I actually personally 00:05:20.560 --> 00:05:24.800 would perhaps be more relaxed about 00:05:22.959 --> 00:05:26.638 events here on Earth if there was 00:05:24.800 --> 00:05:27.360 somebody else carrying the torch as 00:05:26.639 --> 00:05:29.199 well. 00:05:27.360 --> 00:05:32.560 >> The the show that you're doing here is 00:05:29.199 --> 00:05:34.000 called Emergence. What is the emergence 00:05:32.560 --> 00:05:36.319 of the title? 00:05:34.000 --> 00:05:38.800 >> It starts with a story of Johannes 00:05:36.319 --> 00:05:41.439 Kepler. So the idea that planets move in 00:05:38.800 --> 00:05:44.720 ellipses around the sun. This is Kepler. 00:05:41.439 --> 00:05:47.120 But um in 1610 he wrote a book called 00:05:44.720 --> 00:05:49.199 the six cornered snowflake and it's 00:05:47.120 --> 00:05:51.280 still available. I strongly recommend 00:05:49.199 --> 00:05:53.038 it. It's a beautiful book. And he just 00:05:51.279 --> 00:05:54.719 asked this question about snowflakes. 00:05:53.038 --> 00:05:57.599 Why are they all six cornered? Why are 00:05:54.720 --> 00:06:01.120 they all similar? Um and it's actually 00:05:57.600 --> 00:06:03.199 extremely deep question um for for many 00:06:01.120 --> 00:06:05.120 reasons. One is that you it's a 20th 00:06:03.199 --> 00:06:07.120 century answer. It's to do with the 00:06:05.120 --> 00:06:08.959 water molecule and quantum mechanics and 00:06:07.120 --> 00:06:10.800 all these things we discovered in the 00:06:08.959 --> 00:06:12.638 20th century. So he couldn't have 00:06:10.800 --> 00:06:14.400 answered it. But one of the most 00:06:12.639 --> 00:06:16.879 important things is that at the end of 00:06:14.399 --> 00:06:19.038 the book he says I don't know the 00:06:16.879 --> 00:06:21.120 answer. He he writes, you know, I leave 00:06:19.038 --> 00:06:23.439 it to to you to it's actually to his 00:06:21.120 --> 00:06:26.240 benefactor this who he wrote the book 00:06:23.439 --> 00:06:28.879 to, but also to future generations to to 00:06:26.240 --> 00:06:30.960 to find out. And if you think about 00:06:28.879 --> 00:06:33.120 progress, I' i've seen it written that 00:06:30.959 --> 00:06:36.879 progress was invented pretty much around 00:06:33.120 --> 00:06:39.199 that time. You real progress starts. We 00:06:36.879 --> 00:06:41.680 talked about 400 years after that we're, 00:06:39.199 --> 00:06:44.080 you know, flying to the stars. 00:06:41.680 --> 00:06:46.240 >> But for progress, you need to accept 00:06:44.079 --> 00:06:48.318 there are things you don't know. Is that 00:06:46.240 --> 00:06:51.280 why you describe certainty as something 00:06:48.319 --> 00:06:54.240 brutish? I yeah I say yeah the at the 00:06:51.279 --> 00:06:56.478 end of the show actually I say that um 00:06:54.240 --> 00:06:59.519 we we that we live in a world where the 00:06:56.478 --> 00:07:01.918 silence necessary for progress is 00:06:59.519 --> 00:07:04.719 drowned out by the vulgar noise of 00:07:01.918 --> 00:07:06.399 certainty and it's it is it's a it's a 00:07:04.720 --> 00:07:08.720 noise if you see so if you think about 00:07:06.399 --> 00:07:11.758 it if if you think you know everything 00:07:08.720 --> 00:07:14.319 you cannot make progress and the idea 00:07:11.759 --> 00:07:16.560 that that was radical only a few 00:07:14.319 --> 00:07:18.479 centuries ago is is really central to 00:07:16.560 --> 00:07:19.918 the show I say right at the start and 00:07:18.478 --> 00:07:22.000 we're going to focus on a lot of things 00:07:19.918 --> 00:07:24.318 that we don't know because that's where 00:07:22.000 --> 00:07:26.319 the excitement is and that's where 00:07:24.319 --> 00:07:28.240 that's the reason the future will be 00:07:26.319 --> 00:07:29.759 better than the past is because we 00:07:28.240 --> 00:07:30.319 accept that there are things yet to be 00:07:29.759 --> 00:07:33.038 known. 00:07:30.319 --> 00:07:35.280 >> At the same time I I I see that you tend 00:07:33.038 --> 00:07:37.598 optimistic in the way you think about 00:07:35.279 --> 00:07:38.959 the future and progress. But at the same 00:07:37.598 --> 00:07:41.199 time there's an enormous amount of 00:07:38.959 --> 00:07:43.918 exploration going on around the moon 00:07:41.199 --> 00:07:47.360 around possibilities of of 00:07:43.918 --> 00:07:50.159 exploitation of the moon and indeed the 00:07:47.360 --> 00:07:52.639 universe. How much damage could we do 00:07:50.160 --> 00:07:55.039 with satellites and radio waves? 00:07:52.639 --> 00:07:58.160 >> I I don't think that's the the way to 00:07:55.038 --> 00:08:01.120 think about it. So because the so the 00:07:58.160 --> 00:08:03.680 space economy is one of the fastest 00:08:01.120 --> 00:08:06.079 growing areas of the global economy. 00:08:03.680 --> 00:08:07.918 Indeed, many economists I speak to say 00:08:06.079 --> 00:08:10.399 don't don't talk of the space economy 00:08:07.918 --> 00:08:13.198 and the it's just the economy. You think 00:08:10.399 --> 00:08:15.679 about the GPS system, for example. It's 00:08:13.199 --> 00:08:19.360 it's central to the way that we live our 00:08:15.680 --> 00:08:23.199 lives. Um I think the number in the UK 00:08:19.360 --> 00:08:27.520 is I think it's 18% 00:08:23.199 --> 00:08:29.360 16 or 18% of UK GDP is relies on 00:08:27.519 --> 00:08:30.799 space-based infrastructure and that's 00:08:29.360 --> 00:08:32.399 including things such as financial 00:08:30.800 --> 00:08:35.360 transactions that take the timing 00:08:32.399 --> 00:08:38.320 information from space and so on. So it 00:08:35.360 --> 00:08:39.680 tells us that already our economies the 00:08:38.320 --> 00:08:41.680 global economy and our national 00:08:39.679 --> 00:08:44.079 economies are reliant on that 00:08:41.679 --> 00:08:46.958 infrastructure. And so the more we 00:08:44.080 --> 00:08:48.560 expand that infrastructure then really 00:08:46.958 --> 00:08:49.278 what you're talking about is growing the 00:08:48.559 --> 00:08:51.599 economy. 00:08:49.278 --> 00:08:54.080 >> So so we we should learn to trust people 00:08:51.600 --> 00:08:56.399 like in a way learn to trust Jeff Bezos 00:08:54.080 --> 00:08:58.560 and Elon Musk. Obviously people have all 00:08:56.399 --> 00:09:00.799 these doubts and anxieties about what 00:08:58.559 --> 00:09:03.278 they're doing along with the the 00:09:00.799 --> 00:09:04.879 brilliance that attends a lot of the the 00:09:03.278 --> 00:09:06.879 engineering 00:09:04.879 --> 00:09:08.639 achievements. Should we trust them a bit 00:09:06.879 --> 00:09:10.958 more? The reason that we have 00:09:08.639 --> 00:09:12.639 international bodies like the the UN and 00:09:10.958 --> 00:09:14.479 intergovernmental organizations that are 00:09:12.639 --> 00:09:18.080 working on that framework is of course 00:09:14.480 --> 00:09:21.120 that we don't just trust industry or you 00:09:18.080 --> 00:09:23.759 know this is not a judgment on industry 00:09:21.120 --> 00:09:26.320 being moral or otherwise industries are 00:09:23.759 --> 00:09:28.159 industries but we do have frameworks 00:09:26.320 --> 00:09:29.920 that that obviously regulate how 00:09:28.159 --> 00:09:31.919 industries operate in our countries and 00:09:29.919 --> 00:09:33.519 internationally and we need to make sure 00:09:31.919 --> 00:09:35.519 the right frameworks are there because 00:09:33.519 --> 00:09:37.120 it's becoming as I said it's it's some 00:09:35.519 --> 00:09:41.039 like something like approaching ing a 00:09:37.120 --> 00:09:44.000 fifth of the UK economy reliant on that 00:09:41.039 --> 00:09:46.000 infrastructure, then you begin to 00:09:44.000 --> 00:09:48.320 understand that there needs to be some 00:09:46.000 --> 00:09:50.399 it's just like it's no different to the 00:09:48.320 --> 00:09:53.440 the the rules and regulations that 00:09:50.399 --> 00:09:55.839 govern international air travel or or or 00:09:53.440 --> 00:09:58.080 travel on the oceans. We understand that 00:09:55.839 --> 00:09:59.680 that's necessary. In fact, in some ways 00:09:58.080 --> 00:10:02.160 to you call me an optimist. So the 00:09:59.679 --> 00:10:05.278 optimistic take on it is that we are 00:10:02.159 --> 00:10:07.600 forced to collaborate and to operate as 00:10:05.278 --> 00:10:09.519 a world when we start to try to 00:10:07.600 --> 00:10:11.360 understand how we navigate the 00:10:09.519 --> 00:10:12.320 challenges of space. It makes no sense 00:10:11.360 --> 00:10:14.240 does it if you think about the 00:10:12.320 --> 00:10:15.600 international space station for example. 00:10:14.240 --> 00:10:17.759 >> You think well it's in it's in 00:10:15.600 --> 00:10:19.839 Australian airspace if it goes I don't 00:10:17.759 --> 00:10:21.519 know how often it goes over Australia 00:10:19.839 --> 00:10:24.079 but but it's in your airspace as a 00:10:21.519 --> 00:10:27.360 country for a few minutes. So it makes 00:10:24.078 --> 00:10:30.000 no sense to but I I take that as very 00:10:27.360 --> 00:10:31.039 positive because it forces collaboration 00:10:30.000 --> 00:10:32.559 on us. 00:10:31.039 --> 00:10:33.439 >> Brian Cox, thank you very much indeed 00:10:32.559 --> 00:10:36.599 for talking to us. 00:10:33.440 --> 00:10:36.600 >> Thank you.