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Brian Cox, welcome.

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>> Thank you.

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>> It's particularly nice to have you in

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the studio, not down the line somewhere.

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Yeah. In a hotel room. Um, I just wanted

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to start by talking about your uh

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Australia and its skies because you're

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here. Why is Australia a great place for

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stargazers?

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>> Well, part of it is the geometry of the

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solar system. So, the southern

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hemisphere points towards the galactic

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center. So, the Milky Way is far richer.

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If you come from the north, you're

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dazzled by the Milky Way here because

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Australia points towards the galactic

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center. And you also have the two

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satellite galaxies of the Milky Way, the

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Melanic clouds, which um just dominate

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the sky, beautiful things which you

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can't see from the north. So in the

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north, we're pointing outwards to the

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outer sort of backwaters of our galaxy.

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So you're very lucky here. So for

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someone who's never gone out and looked

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at the stars with any particular focus,

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what is it that looking at the stars,

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what does it do to you, to your mind?

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>> Oh, it's it's it's always been um it's

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the thing that got me into science in

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the first place. Um so for some reason

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when I was very young and I don't know

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why I became fascinated by these points

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of light in the sky and it's an example

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of something that's common I think

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throughout science which is the more you

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know the more magical it becomes. So for

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example now we know that I would say

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pretty much every star you see in the

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night sky has planets which we we now we

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didn't know that when I was growing up

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in the 1970s but we know it now. So you

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your imagination can begin to wander

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that they're all solar systems. Every

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single one of them is a solar system.

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Then you start thinking well you know

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are the planets with oceans on them and

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if there's oceans on the planets is

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there life out there beyond beyond our

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solar system beyond the earth and so on.

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So I think it's um it's a it's a science

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that you can do from your back garden as

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you said and it's a science that allows

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your imagination to wander.

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>> So is that what it does? We understand a

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little of what it did to you to put you

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on the journey that you're on, but for

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someone doing it for the first time, how

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much does it change you to have that

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sense of wonder in the sky?

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>> I think it's it's a good question. I

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think astronomy has always been in part

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about our place in initially with our

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place in creation. My my show starts

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actually in around 1600 people like

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Galileo and Kepler laying the

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foundations of the modern science modern

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science at the time cosmology was

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Aristotle's cosmology that so the earth

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is motionless at the center of a finite

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universe nothing changes beyond the

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orbit of the moon and this is 1600 and

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within a few decades we have Newton's

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law of universal gravitation and within

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a few centuries we've discovered that

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there are two trillion galaxies in the

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observable universe

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the universe 13.8 8 billion years since

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the big bang. That raises questions

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though to your to your question because

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obviously then you immediately say what

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is our place and I think astronomy and

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cosmology are the two sciences that

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really force you to ask that question.

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What is the value of of of our

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civilization? What is our place in that

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vast universe? So what happens to that

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question if you say that's 400 years

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that we got from Galileo and his

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telescope

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to now to conceiving of the possibility

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of of humans living on the moon even the

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remoter notion of a colony on Mars if we

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survive what's another 400 years going

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to bring us

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>> you know that that's also a very great

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question because it it feeds so I would

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say it will take us to the stars if we

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carry on at this rate of progress just a

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few centuries. We've already got two

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spacecraft now in interstellar space

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that we are communicating with primarily

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actually through the deep space network

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in Canberra. So that's pointing towards

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those telescopes that those um

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spacecraft. So in in 400 years of modern

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science, we've gone beyond our solar

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system. So you're right, we should be

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voyaging to the stars in the next few

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centuries if we survive. does raise an

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interesting question that actually which

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is why does nobody else appear to have

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done that which is sometimes called the

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Fermy paradox which I do discuss in the

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show. It's one of the I I I think it's

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one of the most puzzling observations we

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have made that as far as we can tell

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there isn't anybody else out there.

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>> I I noticed that you said a friend of

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yours, a biologist I think said don't

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worry about it. It's just if there's

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anything out there it's slime. Could he

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could he be wrong?

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Absolutely. I mean it could, you know,

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we we systematically look for signs of

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other civilizations. It's called SETI

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and it's we use radio telescopes like

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the parks telescope here in Australia

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and we we listen and we look for

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signals. So the reason we do that is

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because we would not be surprised if we

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saw something tomorrow. But it's

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actually you said don't wor it's

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interesting you said don't worry it's

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all slime. I would worry if if

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everything

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>> if we are alone. Well, yeah, because

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then in in some sense I would say that

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we have the responsibility to um allow

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meaning to persist in a galaxy of 400

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billion suns. We're the only intelligent

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civilization of weight on our shoulders.

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>> Yes, indeed. So, I actually personally

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would perhaps be more relaxed about

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events here on Earth if there was

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somebody else carrying the torch as

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well.

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>> The the show that you're doing here is

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called Emergence. What is the emergence

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of the title?

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>> It starts with a story of Johannes

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Kepler. So the idea that planets move in

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ellipses around the sun. This is Kepler.

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But um in 1610 he wrote a book called

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the six cornered snowflake and it's

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still available. I strongly recommend

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it. It's a beautiful book. And he just

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asked this question about snowflakes.

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Why are they all six cornered? Why are

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they all similar? Um and it's actually

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extremely deep question um for for many

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reasons. One is that you it's a 20th

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century answer. It's to do with the

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water molecule and quantum mechanics and

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all these things we discovered in the

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20th century. So he couldn't have

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answered it. But one of the most

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important things is that at the end of

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the book he says I don't know the

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answer. He he writes, you know, I leave

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it to to you to it's actually to his

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benefactor this who he wrote the book

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to, but also to future generations to to

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to find out. And if you think about

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progress, I' i've seen it written that

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progress was invented pretty much around

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that time. You real progress starts. We

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talked about 400 years after that we're,

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you know, flying to the stars.

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>> But for progress, you need to accept

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there are things you don't know. Is that

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why you describe certainty as something

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brutish? I yeah I say yeah the at the

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end of the show actually I say that um

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we we that we live in a world where the

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silence necessary for progress is

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drowned out by the vulgar noise of

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certainty and it's it is it's a it's a

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noise if you see so if you think about

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it if if you think you know everything

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you cannot make progress and the idea

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that that was radical only a few

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centuries ago is is really central to

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the show I say right at the start and

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we're going to focus on a lot of things

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that we don't know because that's where

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the excitement is and that's where

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that's the reason the future will be

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better than the past is because we

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accept that there are things yet to be

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known.

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>> At the same time I I I see that you tend

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optimistic in the way you think about

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the future and progress. But at the same

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time there's an enormous amount of

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exploration going on around the moon

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around possibilities of of

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exploitation of the moon and indeed the

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universe. How much damage could we do

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with satellites and radio waves?

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>> I I don't think that's the the way to

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think about it. So because the so the

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space economy is one of the fastest

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growing areas of the global economy.

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Indeed, many economists I speak to say

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don't don't talk of the space economy

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and the it's just the economy. You think

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about the GPS system, for example. It's

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it's central to the way that we live our

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lives. Um I think the number in the UK

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is I think it's 18%

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16 or 18% of UK GDP is relies on

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space-based infrastructure and that's

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including things such as financial

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transactions that take the timing

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information from space and so on. So it

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tells us that already our economies the

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global economy and our national

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economies are reliant on that

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infrastructure. And so the more we

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expand that infrastructure then really

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what you're talking about is growing the

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economy.

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>> So so we we should learn to trust people

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like in a way learn to trust Jeff Bezos

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and Elon Musk. Obviously people have all

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these doubts and anxieties about what

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they're doing along with the the

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brilliance that attends a lot of the the

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engineering

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achievements. Should we trust them a bit

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more? The reason that we have

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international bodies like the the UN and

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intergovernmental organizations that are

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working on that framework is of course

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that we don't just trust industry or you

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know this is not a judgment on industry

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being moral or otherwise industries are

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industries but we do have frameworks

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that that obviously regulate how

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industries operate in our countries and

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internationally and we need to make sure

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the right frameworks are there because

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it's becoming as I said it's it's some

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like something like approaching ing a

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fifth of the UK economy reliant on that

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infrastructure, then you begin to

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understand that there needs to be some

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it's just like it's no different to the

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the the rules and regulations that

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govern international air travel or or or

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travel on the oceans. We understand that

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that's necessary. In fact, in some ways

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to you call me an optimist. So the

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optimistic take on it is that we are

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forced to collaborate and to operate as

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a world when we start to try to

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understand how we navigate the

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challenges of space. It makes no sense

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does it if you think about the

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international space station for example.

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>> You think well it's in it's in

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Australian airspace if it goes I don't

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know how often it goes over Australia

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but but it's in your airspace as a

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country for a few minutes. So it makes

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no sense to but I I take that as very

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positive because it forces collaboration

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on us.

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>> Brian Cox, thank you very much indeed

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for talking to us.

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>> Thank you.