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last month. The head of Nurad and

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Northcom, the military commands that

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defend North America, told Congress some

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of those mysterious drones seen flying

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inside the United States, may indeed

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have been spying. He did not say for

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whom. 60 Minutes has been looking into a

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series of eerily similar incidents going

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back years, including those attention

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getting flyovers in New Jersey recently.

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In each drones first appeared over

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restricted military or civilian sites,

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coming and going, often literally under

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the radar. The wakeup call came just

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over a year ago when drones invaded the

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skies above Langley Air Force Base in

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Virginia over 17 nights, forcing the

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relocation of our most advanced fighter

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jets. Our story starts with an

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eyewitness and an iPhone.

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Close around 7:00, I would say, I

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started seeing these reddish orange

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flashing lights that were starting to

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come in from the Virginia Beach area. It

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began slowly, like one at a time.

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Jonathan Butner's close encounter with

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drones came on December 14th, 2023. He

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was at his family's cabin on the James

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River in Virginia, about 100 miles south

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of Washington DC with a commanding view

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of several military installations across

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the water. They started really coming in

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like almost like on a conveyor belt. How

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many in total? I probably saw upwards of

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40 plus. When I first saw that, I was

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like, th those are going directly over

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Langley Air Force Base. Langley is one

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of the most critical air bases on the

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east

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[Applause]

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coast. Home to dozens of F-22 Raptors,

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the most advanced stealth fighter jets

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ever built. Butner says from his perch,

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he has seen it all. I'm very familiar

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with all the different types of military

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craft. We have Blackhawks. We have the

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F-22s. And these were like nothing I've

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ever seen. Butner took these iPhone

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videos of the objects coming and going

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for nearly an hour and a half. These are

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the only public videos of the drones

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over Langley. From each other. Yes. He

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shared this video with the FBI for its

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investigation. And another Yes. The

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reports were coming in 20 to 30

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sightings, same time every evening, 30

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to 45 minutes after sunset. Retired

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four-star General Mark Kelly was the

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highest ranking officer at Langley to

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witness the swarm. A veteran fighter

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pilot, Kelly went up to the roof of a

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squadron headquarters for an

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unobstructed view of the airborne

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invaders. So, what did you see? Well,

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what you saw was different sizes of

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incursions of aircraft. You saw

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different altitudes, different air

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speeds. Some were rather loud, some

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weren't near as loud. What was the

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smallest one? What was the largest one?

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The smallest, you know, you're talking

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about a commercial size quadcopter. And

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then the largest ones are probably size

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what I would call a bass boat or a small

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car. The size of a small car. H. At the

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time, General Glenn Van Herk was joint

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commander of NORAD and Northcom, the

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military commands that protect North

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American airspace. He has since retired.

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I actually provided support in the form

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of fighters, uh, airborne warning and

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control platforms,

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uh, helicopters to try to further

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categorize what those drones were at the

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time.

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10 months earlier, he ordered an F-22

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from Langley to shoot down that Chinese

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spy balloon over the Atlantic after it

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had sailed across the US. But this time,

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he found himself ill equipped to

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respond. NORAD's radar systems designed

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during the Cold War to detect high

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alitude air, space, or missile attacks

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were unable to detect low-flying drones

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that could be seen with the naked eye.

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Why don't we just shoot them down?

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Well, first you have to have the

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capability to detect, track, identify,

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make sure it's not a civilian airplane

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flying around. If you can do that, Bill,

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then it becomes a safety issue for the

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American public. Firing missiles in our

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homeland is not taken lightly. We're not

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able to track them. We're not able to

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see where they originate. No, it's a

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capability gap. Certainly, they can come

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and go from any direction. The FBI is

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looking at potential options, but they

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don't have an answer right now, and

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there haven't been answers for similar

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encroachments for more than 5 years.

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There are multiple UAS in vicinity up

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Hamilton CPA 100 ft in altitude off the

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bow. In 2019, naval warships training

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off the California coast were shadowed

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for weeks by dozens of drones. We have

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visual of four probable unidentified

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drones with course unknown and speed

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unknown. For years, the Pentagon did

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little to dispel speculation these

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images taken with night vision equipment

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were UFOs, but ship's logs show they

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were identified as drones at the time.

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And the Navy suspected they came from

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this Hong Kong flagged freighter sailing

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nearby, but couldn't prove it. Since

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then, the defense news site, the war

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zone, has documented dozens of drone

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intrusions at sensitive infrastructure

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and military installations. In 2019, the

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Palo Verde nuclear plant in Arizona, the

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largest power producer in the country.

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In 2024, an experimental weapons site in

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Southern California, where defense

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contractors are building the next

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generation of stealth bombers. Last

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December, the Army confirmed 11 drone

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sightings over the Pikatini Arsenal in

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northern New Jersey, where advanced

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weapons are designed and built. What is

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that? Which ignited a public frenzy with

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sightings of unidentified flying objects

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all over the region. New Jersey remains

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the epicenter of the drone mystery.

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While much of the country was fixated on

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New Jersey, another swarm of drones was

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disrupting operations at an air base in

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the UK where US nuclear weapons have

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been stored. Clearly, uh there is a

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military intelligence aspect of this.

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Republican Senator Roger Wicker of

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Mississippi is chairman of the Armed

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Services Committee that oversees the

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Pentagon. We talked to him this past

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December. Do you believe that these

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drones are a spying system, a spying

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platform? What would a logical person

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conclude

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that that these are spying incursions?

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And yet I I can tell you I I am privy to

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to classified briefings at the highest

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level. I think the Pentagon and the

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National Security Adviserss are still

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mystified. Still mystified? Yes. More

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alarming, with drones overhead, some of

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the F-22s stationed at Langley were

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moved to a nearby air base for their own

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protection. There's a new wartime

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reality. Drones that can spy can also

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destroy. Deep inside Russia, advanced

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aircraft have been destroyed by

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Ukrainian drones. General Van Herk told

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us drones could do the same thing here.

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I have seen video of drones in various

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sizes flying over uh the F-22 flight

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line at Langley. What's your reaction to

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that? They

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could drop ordinance on them, drop bombs

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on them. They could crash into them to

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disable them. Was that a concern?

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Absolutely. It's a concern. Small UAS or

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drones can do a myriad of missions.

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President Biden was informed of the

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Langley intrusions and meetings were

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held at the White House to figure out

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how to bring the drones down, but after

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17 nights, the drone visitation stopped.

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A senior official in the Biden White

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House later downplayed the incident to

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60 Minutes, saying it was likely the

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work of hobbyists. From what you

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saw, did you rule out that these might

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be hobbyists sending these drones up?

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No. It would be my assessment they

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weren't hobbyists because of the

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magnitude of the events, the sizes of

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some of the drones, and the duration.

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So, what's going on? Well, I wish I had

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the answer. It certainly could have a

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foreign nexus, a threat nexus. They

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could be doing anything from surveilling

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critical infrastructure

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uh just to the point of uh embarrassing

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us from the fact that they can do this

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on a day-to-day basis uh and then we're

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not able to do anything about it. In

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overseas war zones, the US military has

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broad authority to bring down menacing

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drones with gunfire, missiles, and

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electronic jamming. Here at home, any of

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those actions would pose a threat to

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civilians on the ground and in the air.

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Well, we certainly need new systems to

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to counter this threat. A year ago,

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General Gregory Guo, a combat veteran,

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took control of NORAD and Northcom. He

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ordered a 90-day assessment of

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operations and says the drones, or UAVs,

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at Langley became the centerpiece. We're

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the most powerful military on the face

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of the earth and yet drones

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could fly over a major air force base

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and we couldn't stop them. How is that

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possible? Well, I think the uh the

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threat got ahead of our ability to uh

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detect and and track the threat. I think

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all eyes u were rightfully overseas

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where UAVs were being used on oneway

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attack to attack US and coalition

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service members and the threat in the US

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probably caught us by surprise a little

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bit as it stands

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today. Could you detect a swarm of

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drones flying over or flying into the

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airspace at at Langley? Could you detect

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that today?

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at at at low altitude. Uh probably not

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with your standard uh FAA or um uh

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surveillance radars complicating his

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efforts bureaucracy. When the drones

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flew outside the perimeter of Langley

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Air Force Base, other agencies had

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jurisdiction. The Coast Guard, FAA, FBI,

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and local police. There was no one

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agency in charge. So, what did you

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determine went on at Langley? Well, that

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that uh that investigation is still

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ongoing. Uh so, I don't think we know uh

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entirely what happened. You know, when

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we hear things from the White House that

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it's not deemed a threat. It it seems to

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me that this is alarming. I mean, this

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is kind of hair on fire time. It it is

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alarming. And uh I would say that our

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hair is on fire here in in Northcom in a

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controlled way and we're moving out

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extremely quickly. This past November,

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General Guo was given the authority to

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cut through the red tape and coordinate

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counter drone efforts across multiple

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government agencies. He says new, more

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sensitive radar systems are being

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installed at strategic bases and

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Northcom is developing what it calls

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flyaway kits with the latest anti- drone

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technology to be delivered to bases

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besieged by drones. My goal is inside of

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a year that we would have uh the flyaway

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kit capability to augment uh the

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services and the installations if

271
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they're necessary. So within a year,

272
00:12:28,720 --> 00:12:37,120
were Langley to happen again, there'd be

273
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some ability to respond. That's my goal.

274
00:12:37,120 --> 00:12:42,320
His predecessor, Glenn Van Herk, says

275
00:12:39,679 --> 00:12:44,838
the Pentagon, White House, and Congress

276
00:12:42,320 --> 00:12:47,760
have underestimated this massive

277
00:12:44,839 --> 00:12:51,120
vulnerability for far too long. It's

278
00:12:47,759 --> 00:12:51,958
been one year since Langley had their

279
00:12:51,120 --> 00:12:54,159
drone

280
00:12:51,958 --> 00:12:56,078
incursion, and we don't have the

281
00:12:54,159 --> 00:12:58,879
policies and laws in place to deal with

282
00:12:56,078 --> 00:13:01,359
this. That's not a sense of urgency. Why

283
00:12:58,879 --> 00:13:03,240
do you think that is?

284
00:13:01,360 --> 00:13:05,800
I think it's because there's a

285
00:13:03,240 --> 00:13:08,959
perception that this is fortress

286
00:13:05,799 --> 00:13:11,519
America, two oceans on the east and west

287
00:13:08,958 --> 00:13:13,199
with friendly nations north and south,

288
00:13:11,519 --> 00:13:15,839
and nobody's going to attack our

289
00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:18,839
homeland. It's time we move beyond that

290
00:13:15,839 --> 00:13:18,839
assumption.

291
00:13:25,278 --> 00:13:29,278
Earlier this summer, the Director of

292
00:13:27,278 --> 00:13:32,078
National Intelligence and Secretary of

293
00:13:29,278 --> 00:13:34,639
Defense released a highly anticipated,

294
00:13:32,078 --> 00:13:37,359
unclassified report about something the

295
00:13:34,639 --> 00:13:41,639
Pentagon calls unidentified aerial

296
00:13:37,360 --> 00:13:43,839
phenomena or UAP, more commonly known as

297
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UFOs. The government's grudging

298
00:13:43,839 --> 00:13:49,440
acknowledgement of 144 mysterious

299
00:13:46,799 --> 00:13:52,319
sightings documented by our military,

300
00:13:49,440 --> 00:13:54,720
comes after decades of public denial.

301
00:13:52,320 --> 00:13:57,120
But as we first reported in May,

302
00:13:54,720 --> 00:14:00,160
whatever is trespassing in our skies and

303
00:13:57,120 --> 00:14:02,560
seas poses a serious safety risk to our

304
00:14:00,159 --> 00:14:04,198
service men and women as well as our

305
00:14:02,559 --> 00:14:08,359
national

306
00:14:04,198 --> 00:14:11,159
security. So what you're telling me is

307
00:14:08,360 --> 00:14:14,278
that UFOs,

308
00:14:11,159 --> 00:14:16,559
unidentified flying objects, are

309
00:14:14,278 --> 00:14:18,078
real. Bill, I think we're beyond that

310
00:14:16,559 --> 00:14:19,599
already. The government has already

311
00:14:18,078 --> 00:14:20,879
stated for the record that they're real.

312
00:14:19,600 --> 00:14:23,120
I'm not telling you that. The United

313
00:14:20,879 --> 00:14:25,838
States government is telling you that

314
00:14:23,120 --> 00:14:27,679
Luis Alzando spent 20 years running

315
00:14:25,839 --> 00:14:30,240
military intelligence operations

316
00:14:27,679 --> 00:14:31,239
worldwide in Afghanistan, the Middle

317
00:14:30,240 --> 00:14:33,919
East, and

318
00:14:31,240 --> 00:14:36,879
Guantanamo. He hadn't given UFOs a

319
00:14:33,919 --> 00:14:38,719
second thought until 2008. That's when

320
00:14:36,879 --> 00:14:41,360
he was asked to join something at the

321
00:14:38,720 --> 00:14:44,800
Pentagon called the Advanced Aerospace

322
00:14:41,360 --> 00:14:46,800
Threat Identification Program or ATIP.

323
00:14:44,799 --> 00:14:49,278
The mission of ATIP was quite simple.

324
00:14:46,799 --> 00:14:52,240
was to collect and analyze information

325
00:14:49,278 --> 00:14:53,759
involving anomalous uh aerial vehicles.

326
00:14:52,240 --> 00:14:56,959
What I guess in the vernacular you you

327
00:14:53,759 --> 00:14:59,679
call them UFOs. We call them UAPs. You

328
00:14:56,958 --> 00:15:02,719
know how this sounds. It sounds nutty,

329
00:14:59,679 --> 00:15:04,479
wacky. Look, Bill, I I'm not I'm not

330
00:15:02,720 --> 00:15:06,639
telling you that that it doesn't sound

331
00:15:04,480 --> 00:15:08,560
wacky. What I'm telling you is real. The

332
00:15:06,639 --> 00:15:11,120
question is what is it? What are its

333
00:15:08,559 --> 00:15:13,919
intentions? What are its capabilities?

334
00:15:11,120 --> 00:15:17,120
Buried away in the Pentagon, ATIP was

335
00:15:13,919 --> 00:15:19,439
part of a $22 million program sponsored

336
00:15:17,120 --> 00:15:23,360
by then Senate Majority Leader Harry

337
00:15:19,440 --> 00:15:26,240
Reid to investigate UFOs. When Alzando

338
00:15:23,360 --> 00:15:28,240
took over in 2010, he focused on the

339
00:15:26,240 --> 00:15:30,959
national security implications of

340
00:15:28,240 --> 00:15:34,079
unidentified aerial phenomena documented

341
00:15:30,958 --> 00:15:37,679
by US service members. Imagine a

342
00:15:34,078 --> 00:15:40,399
technology that can do 6 to 700 G-forces

343
00:15:37,679 --> 00:15:43,679
that can fly at 13,000 miles an hour

344
00:15:40,399 --> 00:15:46,799
that uh it can evade radar and that can

345
00:15:43,679 --> 00:15:49,359
fly through air and water and possibly

346
00:15:46,799 --> 00:15:51,758
space and oh by the way has no obvious

347
00:15:49,360 --> 00:15:54,000
signs of propulsions, no wings, no

348
00:15:51,759 --> 00:15:56,000
control surfaces and yet still can defy

349
00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:57,759
the natural effects of Earth's gravity.

350
00:15:56,000 --> 00:16:00,639
That's precisely what we're seeing.

351
00:15:57,759 --> 00:16:03,278
Alzando tells us ATIP was a loose-nit

352
00:16:00,639 --> 00:16:05,839
mix of scientists, electroloptical

353
00:16:03,278 --> 00:16:08,720
engineers, avionics, and intelligence

354
00:16:05,839 --> 00:16:11,120
experts, often working part-time. They

355
00:16:08,720 --> 00:16:15,450
combed through data and records and

356
00:16:11,120 --> 00:16:18,399
analyzed videos like this.

357
00:16:15,450 --> 00:16:20,879
[Music]

358
00:16:18,399 --> 00:16:23,440
A Navy air crew struggles to lock on to

359
00:16:20,879 --> 00:16:25,470
a fastmoving object off the US Atlantic

360
00:16:23,440 --> 00:16:28,160
coast in 2015.

361
00:16:25,470 --> 00:16:30,240
[Applause]

362
00:16:28,159 --> 00:16:32,879
Recently released images may not

363
00:16:30,240 --> 00:16:35,680
convince UFO skeptics, but the Pentagon

364
00:16:32,879 --> 00:16:41,120
admits it doesn't know what in the world

365
00:16:35,679 --> 00:16:43,120
this is, or this or this.

366
00:16:41,120 --> 00:16:44,919
So, what do you say to the skeptics?

367
00:16:43,120 --> 00:16:49,320
It's refracted

368
00:16:44,919 --> 00:16:52,319
light, weather balloons, a rocket being

369
00:16:49,320 --> 00:16:54,639
launched, Venus. In some cases, there

370
00:16:52,320 --> 00:16:56,800
are are simple explanations for what

371
00:16:54,639 --> 00:16:59,919
people are witnessing, but there are

372
00:16:56,799 --> 00:17:01,359
some that that are not. We're not just

373
00:16:59,919 --> 00:17:03,519
simply jumping to a conclusion that's

374
00:17:01,360 --> 00:17:05,038
saying, "Oh, that's a UAP out there."

375
00:17:03,519 --> 00:17:06,720
We're going through our due diligence.

376
00:17:05,038 --> 00:17:08,318
Is it some sort of new type of cruise

377
00:17:06,720 --> 00:17:10,240
missile technology that China has

378
00:17:08,318 --> 00:17:12,480
developed? Is it some sort of high

379
00:17:10,240 --> 00:17:14,720
altitude balloon that's conducting

380
00:17:12,480 --> 00:17:17,038
reconnaissance? Ultimately, when you

381
00:17:14,720 --> 00:17:19,439
have exhausted all those what-ifs and

382
00:17:17,038 --> 00:17:21,519
you're still left with with the fact

383
00:17:19,439 --> 00:17:24,480
that this is in our airspace and it's

384
00:17:21,519 --> 00:17:27,038
real, that's when it becomes compelling

385
00:17:24,480 --> 00:17:29,919
and that's when it becomes problematic.

386
00:17:27,038 --> 00:17:32,558
Former Navy pilot Lieutenant Ryan Graves

387
00:17:29,919 --> 00:17:36,559
calls whatever is out there a security

388
00:17:32,558 --> 00:17:39,359
risk. He told us his F-18 squadron began

389
00:17:36,558 --> 00:17:42,160
seeing UAPs hovering over restricted

390
00:17:39,359 --> 00:17:44,639
airspace southeast of Virginia Beach in

391
00:17:42,160 --> 00:17:47,759
2014 when they updated their jet's

392
00:17:44,640 --> 00:17:50,640
radar, making it possible to zero in

393
00:17:47,759 --> 00:17:52,798
with infrared targeting cameras. So,

394
00:17:50,640 --> 00:17:55,120
you're seeing it both with the radar and

395
00:17:52,798 --> 00:17:57,839
with the infrared, and that tells you

396
00:17:55,119 --> 00:17:59,918
that there is something out there.

397
00:17:57,839 --> 00:18:02,558
Pretty hard to spoof that. These

398
00:17:59,919 --> 00:18:05,679
photographs were taken in 2019 in the

399
00:18:02,558 --> 00:18:08,960
same area. The Pentagon confirms these

400
00:18:05,679 --> 00:18:11,120
are images of objects it can't identify.

401
00:18:08,960 --> 00:18:13,279
Lieutenant Graves told us pilots

402
00:18:11,119 --> 00:18:16,359
training off the Atlantic coast see

403
00:18:13,279 --> 00:18:19,279
things like that all the time. Every

404
00:18:16,359 --> 00:18:21,359
day. Every day for at least a couple

405
00:18:19,279 --> 00:18:23,678
years. Wait a minute. Every day for a

406
00:18:21,359 --> 00:18:26,639
couple of years. Mhm. You know, I don't

407
00:18:23,679 --> 00:18:28,720
see an exhaust pool. including this one

408
00:18:26,640 --> 00:18:31,759
off the coast of Jacksonville, Florida

409
00:18:28,720 --> 00:18:33,759
in 2015. Captured on a targeting camera

410
00:18:31,759 --> 00:18:38,000
by members of Graves Squadron. If

411
00:18:33,759 --> 00:18:39,960
there's another thing, it's rotating.

412
00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:42,000
My

413
00:18:39,960 --> 00:18:44,360
gosh. They're all going against the

414
00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:47,038
wind. The wind's 120 knots

415
00:18:44,359 --> 00:18:48,558
west. Dude, you can sort of hear the

416
00:18:47,038 --> 00:18:50,000
surprise in their voices. You certainly

417
00:18:48,558 --> 00:18:52,879
can. They seem to have broke character a

418
00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:54,558
bit. Uh, and we're just kind of amazed

419
00:18:52,880 --> 00:18:56,720
at what they were seeing. What do you

420
00:18:54,558 --> 00:18:58,879
think when you see something like this?

421
00:18:56,720 --> 00:19:01,360
This is a difficult one to explain. You

422
00:18:58,880 --> 00:19:03,520
have rotation, you have high altitudes,

423
00:19:01,359 --> 00:19:05,678
you have propulsion, right? I don't

424
00:19:03,519 --> 00:19:08,400
know. I don't know what it is, frankly.

425
00:19:05,679 --> 00:19:12,000
He told us pilots speculate they are one

426
00:19:08,400 --> 00:19:15,200
of three things. Secret US technology,

427
00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:16,880
an adversary spy vehicle, or something

428
00:19:15,200 --> 00:19:18,240
otherworldly.

429
00:19:16,880 --> 00:19:20,640
I would say, you know, the highest

430
00:19:18,240 --> 00:19:23,359
probability is it's a threat observation

431
00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:26,640
program. Could it be Russian or Chinese

432
00:19:23,359 --> 00:19:29,599
technology? I don't see why not. Are you

433
00:19:26,640 --> 00:19:30,960
alarmed? I I am worried. Uh, frankly,

434
00:19:29,599 --> 00:19:32,000
you know, if these were tactical jets

435
00:19:30,960 --> 00:19:33,600
from another country that were hanging

436
00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:35,759
out up there, it would be a massive

437
00:19:33,599 --> 00:19:37,119
issue. But because it looks slightly

438
00:19:35,759 --> 00:19:39,279
different, we're not willing to actually

439
00:19:37,119 --> 00:19:41,119
look at the problem in the face. Uh,

440
00:19:39,279 --> 00:19:42,480
we're we're happy to just ignore the

441
00:19:41,119 --> 00:19:45,519
fact that these are out there watching

442
00:19:42,480 --> 00:19:47,839
us every day. The government has ignored

443
00:19:45,519 --> 00:19:51,119
it, at least publicly, since closing its

444
00:19:47,839 --> 00:19:53,279
Project Blue Book investigation in 1969.

445
00:19:51,119 --> 00:19:55,319
But that began to change after an

446
00:19:53,279 --> 00:19:58,720
incident off Southern California in

447
00:19:55,319 --> 00:20:01,918
2004, which was documented by radar, by

448
00:19:58,720 --> 00:20:04,640
camera, and four naval aviators. We

449
00:20:01,919 --> 00:20:06,559
spoke to two of them, David Fraver, a

450
00:20:04,640 --> 00:20:09,200
graduate of the Top Gun Naval Flight

451
00:20:06,558 --> 00:20:11,759
School and commander of the F-18

452
00:20:09,200 --> 00:20:14,480
squadron on the USS Nimttz. And flying

453
00:20:11,759 --> 00:20:16,960
at his wing, Lieutenant Alex Dietrich,

454
00:20:14,480 --> 00:20:19,120
who has never spoken publicly about the

455
00:20:16,960 --> 00:20:22,640
encounter. I never wanted to be on

456
00:20:19,119 --> 00:20:24,558
national TV. No offense. So why are you

457
00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:27,038
doing this? Because I was in a

458
00:20:24,558 --> 00:20:30,000
government aircraft because I was on the

459
00:20:27,038 --> 00:20:32,000
clock and so I feel a responsibility to

460
00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:35,000
to share what I can and it is

461
00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:35,000
unclassified.

462
00:20:35,038 --> 00:20:41,200
It was November 2004 and the USS Nimtt's

463
00:20:38,798 --> 00:20:44,480
carrier strike group was training about

464
00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:47,279
100 miles southwest of San Diego. For a

465
00:20:44,480 --> 00:20:49,839
week, the advanced new radar on a nearby

466
00:20:47,279 --> 00:20:52,480
ship, the USS Princeton, had detected

467
00:20:49,839 --> 00:20:55,038
what operators called multiple anomalous

468
00:20:52,480 --> 00:20:57,839
aerial vehicles over the horizon,

469
00:20:55,038 --> 00:21:00,079
descending 80,000 ft in less than a

470
00:20:57,839 --> 00:21:02,879
second.

471
00:21:00,079 --> 00:21:05,119
On November 14th, Fraver and Dietrich,

472
00:21:02,880 --> 00:21:07,559
each with a weapon system officer in the

473
00:21:05,119 --> 00:21:10,798
back seat, were diverted to

474
00:21:07,558 --> 00:21:14,079
investigate. They found an area of roing

475
00:21:10,798 --> 00:21:17,839
white water the size of a 737 in an

476
00:21:14,079 --> 00:21:20,879
otherwise calm blue sea. So, as we're

477
00:21:17,839 --> 00:21:23,918
looking at this, her backseater says,

478
00:21:20,880 --> 00:21:25,600
"Hey, Skipper, do you?" And about that

479
00:21:23,919 --> 00:21:27,600
got out. I said, "Dude, do you do you

480
00:21:25,599 --> 00:21:29,678
see that thing down there?" And we saw

481
00:21:27,599 --> 00:21:31,439
this little white tic-tac- looking

482
00:21:29,679 --> 00:21:33,919
object and it's just kind of moving

483
00:21:31,440 --> 00:21:36,720
above the white water area. As Dietrich

484
00:21:33,919 --> 00:21:39,440
circled above, Fraver went in for a

485
00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:41,720
closer look. Sort of spiraling down. The

486
00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:44,798
tic tac still pointing north south. It

487
00:21:41,720 --> 00:21:46,960
goes and just turns abruptly and starts

488
00:21:44,798 --> 00:21:48,558
mirroring me. So, as I'm coming down, it

489
00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:50,400
starts coming up. So, it's it's

490
00:21:48,558 --> 00:21:52,639
mimicking your moves. Yeah. It was aware

491
00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:55,759
we were there. He said it was about the

492
00:21:52,640 --> 00:21:58,480
size of his F-18 with no markings, no

493
00:21:55,759 --> 00:22:00,640
wings, no exhaust plumes. I want to see

494
00:21:58,480 --> 00:22:03,200
how close I can get. So I go like this

495
00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:04,320
and it's climbing still and when it gets

496
00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:07,519
right in front of me, it just

497
00:22:04,319 --> 00:22:10,798
disappears. Disappears. Disappears like

498
00:22:07,519 --> 00:22:13,038
gone. It had sped off. What are you

499
00:22:10,798 --> 00:22:14,158
thinking? So your your mind tries to

500
00:22:13,038 --> 00:22:17,440
make sense of it. I'm going to

501
00:22:14,159 --> 00:22:20,640
categorize this as maybe a helicopter or

502
00:22:17,440 --> 00:22:22,400
maybe a drone. And when it disappeared,

503
00:22:20,640 --> 00:22:24,960
I mean, it was just Did your back

504
00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:26,960
seaters see this, too? Yeah. Oh, yeah.

505
00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:28,240
There was four of us in the airplanes

506
00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:30,640
literally watching this thing for

507
00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:33,839
roughly about 5 minutes. Seconds later,

508
00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:36,480
the Princeton reacquired the target 60

509
00:22:33,839 --> 00:22:38,720
miles away. Another crew managed to

510
00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:41,759
briefly lock on to it with a targeting

511
00:22:38,720 --> 00:22:43,360
camera before it zipped off again. You

512
00:22:41,759 --> 00:22:46,038
know, I think that over beers, we've

513
00:22:43,359 --> 00:22:48,000
sort of said, "Hey, man, if I saw this

514
00:22:46,038 --> 00:22:49,679
solo, I don't know that I would have

515
00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:52,159
come back and said anything because it

516
00:22:49,679 --> 00:22:55,200
sounds so crazy when I say it." You

517
00:22:52,159 --> 00:22:56,640
understand that reaction? I do. I've had

518
00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:58,319
some people tell me, you know, when you

519
00:22:56,640 --> 00:23:01,400
say that, you can sound crazy. And I'll

520
00:22:58,319 --> 00:23:01,399
be hon.

521
00:23:05,919 --> 00:23:09,120
Yes. Oh, there's there's definitely

522
00:23:07,359 --> 00:23:11,279
something that I don't know who's

523
00:23:09,119 --> 00:23:12,959
building it, who's got the technology,

524
00:23:11,279 --> 00:23:15,918
who's got the brains, but there's

525
00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:18,240
there's something out there that was

526
00:23:15,919 --> 00:23:21,200
better than our airplane. The air crew

527
00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:24,038
filed reports. Then, like the mysterious

528
00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:26,558
flying object, the Nimtts encountered

529
00:23:24,038 --> 00:23:29,919
disappeared. Nothing was said or done

530
00:23:26,558 --> 00:23:32,639
officially for five years until Lou

531
00:23:29,919 --> 00:23:34,880
Alzando came across the story and

532
00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:37,120
investigated. We spend millions of

533
00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:38,880
dollars in training these these pilots

534
00:23:37,119 --> 00:23:41,359
and they are seeing something that they

535
00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:42,640
can't explain. Furthermore, that

536
00:23:41,359 --> 00:23:44,479
information is being backed up on

537
00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:47,440
electrooptical data like gun camera

538
00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:49,839
footage and by radar data. Now, to me,

539
00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:52,480
that's compelling. Inside the Pentagon,

540
00:23:49,839 --> 00:23:55,519
his findings were met with skepticism.

541
00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:58,079
AIP's funding was eliminated in 2012.

542
00:23:55,519 --> 00:24:00,798
But Alzando says he and a handful of

543
00:23:58,079 --> 00:24:03,678
others kept the mission alive until

544
00:24:00,798 --> 00:24:07,038
finally frustrated, he quit the Pentagon

545
00:24:03,679 --> 00:24:10,159
in 2017, but not before getting these

546
00:24:07,038 --> 00:24:13,200
three videos declassified. And then

547
00:24:10,159 --> 00:24:15,520
things took a stranger turn. I tried to

548
00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:16,720
help my colleague Lu Alzando elevate the

549
00:24:15,519 --> 00:24:18,319
issue in the department and actually get

550
00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:20,400
it to the Secretary of Defense.

551
00:24:18,319 --> 00:24:22,240
Christopher Melon served as deputy

552
00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:24,400
assistant secretary of defense for

553
00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:27,120
intelligence for presidents Clinton and

554
00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:29,919
George W. Bush and had access to top

555
00:24:27,119 --> 00:24:32,000
secret government programs. So it's not

556
00:24:29,919 --> 00:24:33,840
us. That's one thing we know. We know

557
00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:35,839
that. I can say that with a very high

558
00:24:33,839 --> 00:24:37,759
degree of confidence in part because of

559
00:24:35,839 --> 00:24:40,558
the positions I held in the department

560
00:24:37,759 --> 00:24:42,558
and I know the process. Melon says he

561
00:24:40,558 --> 00:24:46,000
grew concerned nothing was being done

562
00:24:42,558 --> 00:24:48,879
about UAPs. So he decided to do

563
00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:51,440
something. In 2017, as a private

564
00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:55,200
citizen, he surreptitiously acquired the

565
00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:58,480
three Navy videos had declassified and

566
00:24:55,200 --> 00:25:01,200
leaked them to the New York Times. It's

567
00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:03,038
bizarre and unfortunate that someone

568
00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:05,519
like myself has to do something like

569
00:25:03,038 --> 00:25:07,519
that to get a national security issue

570
00:25:05,519 --> 00:25:10,720
like this on the agenda. He joined

571
00:25:07,519 --> 00:25:12,639
forces with now civilian Lou Alzando and

572
00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:15,278
they started to tell their story to

573
00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:17,360
anybody who would listen to newspapers,

574
00:25:15,278 --> 00:25:19,679
the History Channel, to members of

575
00:25:17,359 --> 00:25:21,199
Congress. We knew and understood that

576
00:25:19,679 --> 00:25:22,400
you had to go to the public, get the

577
00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:24,960
public interested to get Congress

578
00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:26,880
interested to then circle back to the

579
00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:30,880
defense department and get them to start

580
00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:33,440
taking a look at it. And now it is. Last

581
00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:36,400
year, the Pentagon resurrected ATIP.

582
00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:38,880
It's now called the UAP Task Force.

583
00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:41,278
Service members now are encouraged to

584
00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:43,919
report strange encounters, and the

585
00:25:41,278 --> 00:25:45,679
Senate wants answers. Anything that

586
00:25:43,919 --> 00:25:48,159
enters an airspace that's not supposed

587
00:25:45,679 --> 00:25:51,038
to be there is a threat. After receiving

588
00:25:48,159 --> 00:25:53,520
classified briefings on UAPs, Senator

589
00:25:51,038 --> 00:25:56,480
Marco Rubio called for a detailed

590
00:25:53,519 --> 00:25:58,079
analysis. This past December, while he

591
00:25:56,480 --> 00:26:00,079
was still head of the intelligence

592
00:25:58,079 --> 00:26:02,399
committee, he asked the director of

593
00:26:00,079 --> 00:26:05,038
national intelligence and the Pentagon

594
00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:08,159
to present Congress an unclassified

595
00:26:05,038 --> 00:26:10,079
report by next month. This is a bizarre

596
00:26:08,159 --> 00:26:12,480
issue. The Pentagon and other branches

597
00:26:10,079 --> 00:26:15,759
of the military have a long history of

598
00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:16,798
sort of dismissing this. What makes you

599
00:26:15,759 --> 00:26:18,158
think that this time is going to be

600
00:26:16,798 --> 00:26:20,079
different? I mean, we're going to find

601
00:26:18,159 --> 00:26:21,760
out when we get that report. You know,

602
00:26:20,079 --> 00:26:23,038
there's a stigma on Capitol Hill. I

603
00:26:21,759 --> 00:26:25,119
mean, some of my colleagues are very

604
00:26:23,038 --> 00:26:27,119
interested in this topic and some kind

605
00:26:25,119 --> 00:26:29,119
of, you know, giggle when when you bring

606
00:26:27,119 --> 00:26:31,038
it up, but I I I don't think we can

607
00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:32,959
allow the stigma to keep us from having

608
00:26:31,038 --> 00:26:35,038
an answer to very fundamental question.

609
00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:36,558
What do you want us to do about this? I

610
00:26:35,038 --> 00:26:38,400
want us to take it seriously and have a

611
00:26:36,558 --> 00:26:40,399
process to take it seriously. I want us

612
00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:42,240
to have a process to analyze the data

613
00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:43,519
every time it comes in. That there be a

614
00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:45,720
place where this is cataloged and

615
00:26:43,519 --> 00:26:47,839
constantly analyzed until we get some

616
00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:49,400
answers. Maybe it has a very simple

617
00:26:47,839 --> 00:26:53,278
answer.

618
00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:55,679
Um, maybe it doesn't.

619
00:26:53,278 --> 00:26:57,278
A few weeks after our story aired, the

620
00:26:55,679 --> 00:27:00,159
director of national intelligence

621
00:26:57,278 --> 00:27:03,359
released an unclassified report saying

622
00:27:00,159 --> 00:27:05,600
UAP probably lack a single explanation,

623
00:27:03,359 --> 00:27:08,479
but that some quote appear to

624
00:27:05,599 --> 00:27:11,959
demonstrate advanced technology meriting

625
00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:11,960
further analysis.

626
00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:24,080
The United States Navy helped secure

627
00:27:21,599 --> 00:27:26,399
victory in two world wars and the Cold

628
00:27:24,079 --> 00:27:28,480
War. Today, the Navy remains a

629
00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:30,400
formidable fighting force. But even

630
00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:32,798
officers within the service have

631
00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:35,360
questioned its readiness. While the US

632
00:27:32,798 --> 00:27:37,839
spent 20 years fighting land wars in

633
00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:40,719
Iraq and Afghanistan, the Pentagon

634
00:27:37,839 --> 00:27:43,519
watched China, its greatest geopolitical

635
00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:46,640
rival of the 21st century, build the

636
00:27:43,519 --> 00:27:48,558
largest navy in the world. China has

637
00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:51,840
threatened to use that navy to invade

638
00:27:48,558 --> 00:27:54,319
Taiwan, an important American ally. As

639
00:27:51,839 --> 00:27:56,240
tensions with China continue to rise, we

640
00:27:54,319 --> 00:27:58,798
wanted to know more about the current

641
00:27:56,240 --> 00:28:01,359
state of the US Navy, how it's trying to

642
00:27:58,798 --> 00:28:04,398
deter China. And as we first reported in

643
00:28:01,359 --> 00:28:07,398
March, preparing for the possibility of

644
00:28:04,398 --> 00:28:07,398
war,

645
00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:14,079
the Navy's always on alert. Onethird of

646
00:28:11,599 --> 00:28:16,480
the Navy is always deployed and

647
00:28:14,079 --> 00:28:19,038
operating at all times. The Navy's

648
00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:21,679
mustering right now about 300 ships and

649
00:28:19,038 --> 00:28:24,240
there are about 100 ships at sea right

650
00:28:21,679 --> 00:28:27,038
now all around the globe. Admiral Samuel

651
00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:31,120
Paparro commands the USPacific Fleet,

652
00:28:27,038 --> 00:28:34,640
whose 200 ships and 150,000 sailors and

653
00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:37,439
civilians make up 60% of the entire US

654
00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:40,240
Navy. We met him in February on the

655
00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:43,200
aircraft carrier USS Nimmits, deployed

656
00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:45,679
near the US territory of Guam, southeast

657
00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:48,880
of Taiwan and the People's Republic of

658
00:28:45,679 --> 00:28:51,919
China or PRC. You've been operating as a

659
00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:53,520
naval officer for 40 years. How has

660
00:28:51,919 --> 00:28:56,360
operating in the Western Pacific

661
00:28:53,519 --> 00:29:00,558
changed? In the early 2000s, the PRC

662
00:28:56,359 --> 00:29:04,558
Navy mustered about 37 vessels. Today,

663
00:29:00,558 --> 00:29:07,119
they're mustering 350 vessels. In March,

664
00:29:04,558 --> 00:29:10,720
China's new foreign minister, Chin Gong,

665
00:29:07,119 --> 00:29:12,639
delivered a stern warning to the US. He

666
00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:15,038
said that if Washington does not change

667
00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:17,278
course in its stance towards China,

668
00:29:15,038 --> 00:29:18,879
conflict and confrontation is

669
00:29:17,278 --> 00:29:20,960
inevitable.

670
00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:23,200
This past August, when then Speaker of

671
00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:25,600
the House Nancy Pelosi became the most

672
00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:28,798
senior US political figure to visit

673
00:29:25,599 --> 00:29:30,439
Taiwan in 25 years, China called it a

674
00:29:28,798 --> 00:29:32,639
blatant

675
00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:35,038
provocation. The People's Liberation

676
00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:37,759
Army fired ballistic missiles into the

677
00:29:35,038 --> 00:29:40,398
sea around Taiwan and encircled the

678
00:29:37,759 --> 00:29:43,359
island with aircraft and warships. So,

679
00:29:40,398 --> 00:29:45,918
are Chinese warships now operating

680
00:29:43,359 --> 00:29:48,479
closer to Taiwan after Nancy Pelosy's

681
00:29:45,919 --> 00:29:51,278
visit? Yes.

682
00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:53,519
The best guess anyone has about China's

683
00:29:51,278 --> 00:29:55,839
ultimate intentions for Taiwan comes

684
00:29:53,519 --> 00:29:57,759
from the CIA. According to its

685
00:29:55,839 --> 00:30:00,398
intelligence assessment, China's

686
00:29:57,759 --> 00:30:02,798
President Xi Jinping has ordered the

687
00:30:00,398 --> 00:30:05,278
People's Liberation Army to be prepared

688
00:30:02,798 --> 00:30:09,759
to take back the island by force by

689
00:30:05,278 --> 00:30:12,000
2027. And if China invades Taiwan, what

690
00:30:09,759 --> 00:30:13,839
will the US Navy do? It's a decision of

691
00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:16,240
the President of the United States and a

692
00:30:13,839 --> 00:30:20,558
decision of the Congress. It's our duty

693
00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:23,519
to be ready for that. But the bulk of

694
00:30:20,558 --> 00:30:26,480
the United States Navy will be deployed

695
00:30:23,519 --> 00:30:29,679
rapidly to the Western Pacific to come

696
00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:32,159
to the aid of Taiwan if the order comes

697
00:30:29,679 --> 00:30:34,880
to aid Taiwan in thwarting that

698
00:30:32,159 --> 00:30:39,840
invasion. Is the US Navy ready? We're

699
00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:42,320
ready. Yes. Uh I'll never admit to being

700
00:30:39,839 --> 00:30:44,879
ready enough. Yes. President Biden has

701
00:30:42,319 --> 00:30:47,038
declared four times, including on 60

702
00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:50,080
Minutes, that the US military would

703
00:30:47,038 --> 00:30:52,480
defend Taiwan, which is a democracy and

704
00:30:50,079 --> 00:30:56,398
the world's leading producer of advanced

705
00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:58,880
microchips. 604. To reach the USS

706
00:30:56,398 --> 00:31:01,199
Nimmitz, we first traveled to America's

707
00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:04,399
westernmost territory, the island of

708
00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:07,278
Guam in the middle of the Pacific.

709
00:31:04,398 --> 00:31:10,359
Guam was taken by Imperial Japan two

710
00:31:07,278 --> 00:31:13,440
days after the attack on Pearl Harbor in

711
00:31:10,359 --> 00:31:15,678
1941. US Marines recaptured it two and a

712
00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:17,759
half years later. And the island about

713
00:31:15,679 --> 00:31:20,080
the size of Chicago became an

714
00:31:17,759 --> 00:31:22,679
indispensable strategic foothold in the

715
00:31:20,079 --> 00:31:26,000
Western Pacific as it remains

716
00:31:22,679 --> 00:31:28,640
today. From Guam, we boarded a Navy C2

717
00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:30,798
Greyhound. The Cold War era transport

718
00:31:28,640 --> 00:31:35,240
plane takes people and supplies back and

719
00:31:30,798 --> 00:31:35,240
forth from land to the carrier.

720
00:31:35,839 --> 00:31:43,000
It was a short flight to the ship and an

721
00:31:39,278 --> 00:31:43,000
even shorter landing.

722
00:31:43,919 --> 00:31:48,720
Incredible. First COD landing. Yes. Oh,

723
00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:51,360
very nice. Certain operations before

724
00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:54,240
Admiral Paparo rose to lead the Pacific

725
00:31:51,359 --> 00:31:56,798
Fleet. He flew jets and graduated from

726
00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:58,640
the school known as Top Gun. When you

727
00:31:56,798 --> 00:32:00,398
talk about ships, what's the most

728
00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:03,038
powerful in the US Navy? It's an

729
00:32:00,398 --> 00:32:06,798
aircraft carrier and its airwing is

730
00:32:03,038 --> 00:32:09,919
capable of 150 strike or air-to-air

731
00:32:06,798 --> 00:32:12,879
sorties per day with uh at its surge

732
00:32:09,919 --> 00:32:16,679
levels the ability to deliver 900

733
00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:19,278
precision guided munitions every day and

734
00:32:16,679 --> 00:32:21,440
reloadable every night. So even though

735
00:32:19,278 --> 00:32:23,359
China now has the largest navy in the

736
00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:25,200
world, they don't have anything like

737
00:32:23,359 --> 00:32:27,678
this in terms of aircraft carriers. They

738
00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:29,200
do not. but they're working towards it

739
00:32:27,679 --> 00:32:31,440
and they have they have two operational

740
00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:34,640
aircraft carriers right now. That's

741
00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:37,919
China's two dieselfueled carriers to the

742
00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:40,240
US's 11 nuclearpowered ones that can

743
00:32:37,919 --> 00:32:42,880
carry a total of about a thousand attack

744
00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:45,759
aircraft, more than the navies of every

745
00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:48,159
other nation on Earth combined. I'll

746
00:32:45,759 --> 00:32:49,919
tell you this, we are here to stay right

747
00:32:48,159 --> 00:32:51,200
in the South China Sea and in this part

748
00:32:49,919 --> 00:32:53,519
of the world. And I think that's the

749
00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:56,080
message that we really want to convey to

750
00:32:53,519 --> 00:32:58,079
not only China but the entire world. We

751
00:32:56,079 --> 00:32:59,678
will sail wherever international law

752
00:32:58,079 --> 00:33:01,759
allows.

753
00:32:59,679 --> 00:33:04,759
Lieutenant Commander David Ash flies an

754
00:33:01,759 --> 00:33:04,759
FA18.

755
00:33:05,278 --> 00:33:12,159
Do you get briefed on China's growing

756
00:33:08,398 --> 00:33:15,278
military threat and the progress that

757
00:33:12,159 --> 00:33:16,799
their navy is making? Absolutely. Yeah,

758
00:33:15,278 --> 00:33:19,200
absolutely we do and they are making

759
00:33:16,798 --> 00:33:20,960
great progress in a lot of key areas of

760
00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:23,759
the Chinese. the Chinese are from a

761
00:33:20,960 --> 00:33:25,600
military standpoint. This video from

762
00:33:23,759 --> 00:33:29,119
weapons systems officer Lieutenant

763
00:33:25,599 --> 00:33:31,278
Commander Matthew Carlton shows his FA18

764
00:33:29,119 --> 00:33:35,599
strafing ground targets with a machine

765
00:33:31,278 --> 00:33:35,599
gun on a US weapons range near

766
00:33:36,679 --> 00:33:41,679
Guam. The pilots on the Nimmits also

767
00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:45,278
conduct air-to-air combat or dog

768
00:33:41,679 --> 00:33:48,000
fighting drills daily.

769
00:33:45,278 --> 00:33:50,558
How aggressive has China become in the

770
00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:53,440
air? aggressive. And uh just some

771
00:33:50,558 --> 00:33:56,158
examples include unsafe, unprofessional

772
00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:58,558
intercepts where they move within single

773
00:33:56,159 --> 00:34:00,080
digits of feet of other aircraft,

774
00:33:58,558 --> 00:34:01,440
flashing the weapons that they have on

775
00:34:00,079 --> 00:34:03,199
board to the air crew of the other

776
00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:06,159
aircraft, operating in international

777
00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:09,280
airspace, maneuvering their aircraft in

778
00:34:06,159 --> 00:34:11,838
such a way that denies the the ability

779
00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:14,480
to turn in one direction. If they're

780
00:34:11,838 --> 00:34:18,000
safe and professional, then there's no

781
00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:20,960
problem. Everybody has the right to fly

782
00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:22,639
and sail wherever international law

783
00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:25,039
dictates. But the Chinese are pushing

784
00:34:22,639 --> 00:34:27,119
that. They are pushing it. China's

785
00:34:25,039 --> 00:34:29,358
increasingly aggressive moves in the

786
00:34:27,119 --> 00:34:32,399
Western Pacific, encroaching on

787
00:34:29,358 --> 00:34:34,480
territory, illegal fishing, and building

788
00:34:32,398 --> 00:34:37,279
bases in the middle of the South China

789
00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:40,240
Sea have pushed nations like Japan and

790
00:34:37,280 --> 00:34:43,919
the Philippines to forge closer military

791
00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:47,118
ties to the US. And earlier this year,

792
00:34:43,918 --> 00:34:49,279
Britain, the US, and Australia signed a

793
00:34:47,119 --> 00:34:51,919
landmark deal to jointly develop

794
00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:53,159
nuclearpowered attack submarines to

795
00:34:51,918 --> 00:34:56,239
patrol the

796
00:34:53,159 --> 00:34:59,280
Pacific. This is how China and Taiwan

797
00:34:56,239 --> 00:35:01,759
appear on most maps. This is how the

798
00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:04,320
Chinese Communist Party sees the Western

799
00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:07,680
Pacific, including the South and East

800
00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:10,240
China seas from Beijing. Taiwan is the

801
00:35:07,679 --> 00:35:13,039
fulcrum in what China's leaders call the

802
00:35:10,239 --> 00:35:15,759
first island chain. a constellation of

803
00:35:13,039 --> 00:35:19,599
US allies that stretches across its

804
00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:22,560
entire coast. Control of Taiwan is the

805
00:35:19,599 --> 00:35:25,039
strategic key to unlocking direct access

806
00:35:22,559 --> 00:35:28,119
to the Pacific and the seal lanes where

807
00:35:25,039 --> 00:35:31,039
about 50% of the world's commerce gets

808
00:35:28,119 --> 00:35:34,160
transported. China has accused the

809
00:35:31,039 --> 00:35:37,920
United States of trying to contain them.

810
00:35:34,159 --> 00:35:40,639
What do you say to China? I would say uh

811
00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:42,519
do you need to be contained? Are you

812
00:35:40,639 --> 00:35:44,799
expanding? Are you an expansionist

813
00:35:42,519 --> 00:35:47,759
power? To a very great extent, the

814
00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:49,160
United States was the champion for

815
00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:53,079
China's

816
00:35:49,159 --> 00:35:57,199
rise. And in no way are we seeking to

817
00:35:53,079 --> 00:36:00,320
contain China. What we are seeking for

818
00:35:57,199 --> 00:36:02,078
them to play by the rules. China's Navy,

819
00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:05,519
a branch of the People's Liberation

820
00:36:02,079 --> 00:36:09,359
Army, is now the world's largest. China

821
00:36:05,519 --> 00:36:12,079
is also using its 9,000mi coastline to

822
00:36:09,358 --> 00:36:15,159
rewrite the rules of fighting at sea. As

823
00:36:12,079 --> 00:36:18,000
these images from Chinese state media

824
00:36:15,159 --> 00:36:20,719
show, its military has invested heavily

825
00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:24,320
in long range precisiong guided weapons

826
00:36:20,719 --> 00:36:28,439
like the DF-21 and DF-26 that can be

827
00:36:24,320 --> 00:36:28,440
used to target ships.

828
00:36:28,639 --> 00:36:34,239
China's People's Liberation Army Rocket

829
00:36:31,280 --> 00:36:36,160
Force calls them carrier killers and has

830
00:36:34,239 --> 00:36:38,479
practiced shooting them at mock-ups of

831
00:36:36,159 --> 00:36:40,960
American ships in the desert that look a

832
00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:43,400
lot like the Nimmits. Since the United

833
00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:46,480
States has been operating in the Western

834
00:36:43,400 --> 00:36:49,039
Pacific, China's backyard, they've been

835
00:36:46,480 --> 00:36:51,039
developing missiles to attack our

836
00:36:49,039 --> 00:36:53,239
assets, haven't they? Specific missiles.

837
00:36:51,039 --> 00:36:56,159
Absolutely. Yes. First, I'll

838
00:36:53,239 --> 00:36:58,799
say the United States is also a Western

839
00:36:56,159 --> 00:37:02,078
Pacific nation. So, it's not it's not

840
00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:05,240
China's backyard. It's, you know, it is

841
00:37:02,079 --> 00:37:08,320
a free and open Indo-Pacific that

842
00:37:05,239 --> 00:37:11,519
encompasses numerous partners and treaty

843
00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:13,680
allies. And yes, we have seen them

844
00:37:11,519 --> 00:37:15,440
greatly enhance their power projection

845
00:37:13,679 --> 00:37:17,838
capability. How much do you worry about

846
00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:19,679
the PLA rocket force? I worry, you know,

847
00:37:17,838 --> 00:37:21,440
I'd be a fool to not worry about. And of

848
00:37:19,679 --> 00:37:24,000
course, I worry about the the LA rocket

849
00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:26,000
force. Of course, I work every single

850
00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:27,760
day to develop the tactics and the

851
00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:30,000
techniques and the procedures to counter

852
00:37:27,760 --> 00:37:32,960
it and to continue to develop the

853
00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:35,119
systems that can also defend uh against

854
00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:37,440
them. About how far are we from mainland

855
00:37:35,119 --> 00:37:40,160
China? 1500 nautical miles. They can hit

856
00:37:37,440 --> 00:37:41,639
us. Yes, they can. If they've got the

857
00:37:40,159 --> 00:37:43,759
targeting in

858
00:37:41,639 --> 00:37:46,799
place, they could hit this aircraft

859
00:37:43,760 --> 00:37:48,800
carrier. If I don't want to be hit,

860
00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:50,880
there's something I can do about it. US

861
00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:53,519
Navy planners aren't just plotting how

862
00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:55,960
to evade China's rocket force, but also

863
00:37:53,519 --> 00:37:59,119
how they could effectively fight

864
00:37:55,960 --> 00:38:01,679
back. From the vicinity of Guam, none of

865
00:37:59,119 --> 00:38:04,720
the aircraft on this ship has the range

866
00:38:01,679 --> 00:38:06,799
to approach Taiwan without refueling in

867
00:38:04,719 --> 00:38:09,279
the air.

868
00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:11,519
Ships like the US destroyer Wayne E

869
00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:13,920
Meyer, part of the Nimtt strike group,

870
00:38:11,519 --> 00:38:16,639
would need to sail much closer towards

871
00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:20,480
China to fire their missiles at any

872
00:38:16,639 --> 00:38:23,519
force invading Taiwan. One naval scholar

873
00:38:20,480 --> 00:38:26,358
we spoke to likened it to a boxing match

874
00:38:23,519 --> 00:38:29,519
in which a fighter, in this case

875
00:38:26,358 --> 00:38:32,559
China, has much longer arms than their

876
00:38:29,519 --> 00:38:34,719
potential opponent, the US. I'll give

877
00:38:32,559 --> 00:38:37,358
you a lot of examples where a shorter

878
00:38:34,719 --> 00:38:40,159
fighter was able to prevail over a long

879
00:38:37,358 --> 00:38:44,400
firearm fighter by being on their toes

880
00:38:40,159 --> 00:38:47,440
by maneuvering and we can also stick and

881
00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:50,000
move uh while we're developing those

882
00:38:47,440 --> 00:38:52,159
those longer range weapons. There is

883
00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:54,400
another area of modern naval warfare

884
00:38:52,159 --> 00:38:57,759
where the US had a head start and

885
00:38:54,400 --> 00:38:59,440
retains a deep advantage over China. I

886
00:38:57,760 --> 00:39:01,760
just noticed out of the corner of my eye

887
00:38:59,440 --> 00:39:04,000
this this is a 688 class of Los Angeles

888
00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:06,560
class attack submarine. This is the most

889
00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:08,239
capable submarine on the planet. You

890
00:39:06,559 --> 00:39:11,199
know with the exception of the Virginia

891
00:39:08,239 --> 00:39:14,078
class, our newer class of submarines.

892
00:39:11,199 --> 00:39:15,679
The exact number is classified, but our

893
00:39:14,079 --> 00:39:17,920
best estimate is that there are about a

894
00:39:15,679 --> 00:39:20,399
dozen nuclearpowered fast attack

895
00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:23,119
submarines patrolling the Pacific at any

896
00:39:20,400 --> 00:39:25,440
time. They are difficult to detect and

897
00:39:23,119 --> 00:39:29,119
track, something China is trying to

898
00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:32,480
solve. How much more advanced is US

899
00:39:29,119 --> 00:39:34,720
submarine technology than Chinese

900
00:39:32,480 --> 00:39:38,079
capability? A generation. Generation.

901
00:39:34,719 --> 00:39:40,159
And u by a generation think 10 or 20

902
00:39:38,079 --> 00:39:42,320
years. But broadly, I don't really talk

903
00:39:40,159 --> 00:39:44,879
in depth about submarine capabilities.

904
00:39:42,320 --> 00:39:47,359
It's the silent service. Since Nancy

905
00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:49,519
Pelos's visit to Taiwan, China's

906
00:39:47,358 --> 00:39:52,319
military leaders have themselves been

907
00:39:49,519 --> 00:39:54,559
mostly silent and ignored efforts by the

908
00:39:52,320 --> 00:39:57,280
US military to keep the lines of

909
00:39:54,559 --> 00:39:59,838
communication open, even when a Chinese

910
00:39:57,280 --> 00:40:03,200
spy balloon breached American airspace

911
00:39:59,838 --> 00:40:06,400
and was shot down by the US. If the US

912
00:40:03,199 --> 00:40:09,118
and Chinese militaries can't communicate

913
00:40:06,400 --> 00:40:10,720
over a Chinese spy balloon, then what's

914
00:40:09,119 --> 00:40:13,200
going to happen when there's a real

915
00:40:10,719 --> 00:40:15,358
crisis in the South China Sea or with

916
00:40:13,199 --> 00:40:17,480
Taiwan? We'll hope that they'll answer

917
00:40:15,358 --> 00:40:21,199
the

918
00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:23,199
phone else we'll do our very best

919
00:40:21,199 --> 00:40:25,919
assessment based on the things that they

920
00:40:23,199 --> 00:40:29,039
say in open source and based on their

921
00:40:25,920 --> 00:40:30,720
behavior to define their intentions and

922
00:40:29,039 --> 00:40:33,199
we'll act accordingly.

923
00:40:30,719 --> 00:40:36,319
Doesn't that make the situation even

924
00:40:33,199 --> 00:40:39,759
more dangerous if US and Chinese

925
00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:42,079
militaries are not talking? Yes.

926
00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:45,119
Several sources within the Pentagon tell

927
00:40:42,079 --> 00:40:47,440
60 Minutes that if China invaded Taiwan,

928
00:40:45,119 --> 00:40:49,920
it could very well kick off in outer

929
00:40:47,440 --> 00:40:52,159
space with both sides targeting the

930
00:40:49,920 --> 00:40:54,880
others satellites that enable precisiong

931
00:40:52,159 --> 00:40:57,358
guided weaponry. Cyber attacks on

932
00:40:54,880 --> 00:40:59,519
American cities and the sabotage of

933
00:40:57,358 --> 00:41:02,639
ports on the west coast of the US

934
00:40:59,519 --> 00:41:04,960
mainland could follow. One recent

935
00:41:02,639 --> 00:41:07,519
non-classified war game had the US

936
00:41:04,960 --> 00:41:10,000
prevailing but losing 20 ships including

937
00:41:07,519 --> 00:41:13,838
two carriers. Does that sound about

938
00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:16,239
right? That is a plausible outcome. I

939
00:41:13,838 --> 00:41:18,880
can imagine a more pessimistic outcome

940
00:41:16,239 --> 00:41:21,679
and I can imagine a more optimistic

941
00:41:18,880 --> 00:41:24,000
outcome. We should be cleareyed about

942
00:41:21,679 --> 00:41:25,519
the costs that we're potentially

943
00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:28,239
incurring.

944
00:41:25,519 --> 00:41:31,280
There are about 5,000 Americans on board

945
00:41:28,239 --> 00:41:34,078
the Nimtts. The ship is nearly half a

946
00:41:31,280 --> 00:41:36,160
century old. Given the Navy's current

947
00:41:34,079 --> 00:41:38,200
needs in the Pacific, and because

948
00:41:36,159 --> 00:41:41,279
there's fuel left in its nuclear

949
00:41:38,199 --> 00:41:44,318
reactors, the carrier's life at sea is

950
00:41:41,280 --> 00:41:47,760
going to be extended. Is it your hope

951
00:41:44,318 --> 00:41:51,199
that the power of the US Navy, the force

952
00:41:47,760 --> 00:41:53,359
posture of the US Navy will deter a

953
00:41:51,199 --> 00:41:56,078
Chinese invasion of Taiwan? It's not my

954
00:41:53,358 --> 00:41:58,239
hope. It's my duty in conjunction with

955
00:41:56,079 --> 00:42:01,039
allies and partners to deliver

956
00:41:58,239 --> 00:42:03,519
intolerable costs to anybody that would

957
00:42:01,039 --> 00:42:05,838
upend the order in violation of the

958
00:42:03,519 --> 00:42:08,719
nation's security or in violation of the

959
00:42:05,838 --> 00:42:11,599
nation's interests. the saying which is

960
00:42:08,719 --> 00:42:15,679
see PC paravevel which is if you want

961
00:42:11,599 --> 00:42:17,519
peace prepare for war. Since our story

962
00:42:15,679 --> 00:42:19,679
first aired in March, China has

963
00:42:17,519 --> 00:42:22,559
intensified its aggressive military

964
00:42:19,679 --> 00:42:25,358
tactics in the Western Pacific. In June,

965
00:42:22,559 --> 00:42:28,639
a Chinese warship nearly collided with a

966
00:42:25,358 --> 00:42:31,039
US destroyer in the Taiwan Strait. When

967
00:42:28,639 --> 00:42:36,358
we return, critical questions about the

968
00:42:31,039 --> 00:42:36,358
state of the US Navy and its readiness.

969
00:42:42,880 --> 00:42:47,519
60 Minutes spent months talking to

970
00:42:45,199 --> 00:42:49,838
current and former naval officers,

971
00:42:47,519 --> 00:42:52,880
military strategists, and politicians

972
00:42:49,838 --> 00:42:54,719
about the state of the US Navy. One

973
00:42:52,880 --> 00:42:57,680
common thread in our reporting is

974
00:42:54,719 --> 00:43:00,318
unease, both about the size of the US

975
00:42:57,679 --> 00:43:02,799
fleet and its readiness to fight. The

976
00:43:00,318 --> 00:43:05,039
Navy ships are being retired faster than

977
00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:08,160
they're getting replaced. While the Navy

978
00:43:05,039 --> 00:43:10,719
of the People's Republic of China or PRC

979
00:43:08,159 --> 00:43:13,199
grows larger and more lethal by the

980
00:43:10,719 --> 00:43:15,679
year, we first asked the commander of

981
00:43:13,199 --> 00:43:18,239
the US Pacific Fleet, Admiral Samuel

982
00:43:15,679 --> 00:43:21,118
Paparro, about this on our visit earlier

983
00:43:18,239 --> 00:43:24,399
this year to the USS Nimttz, the oldest

984
00:43:21,119 --> 00:43:27,200
aircraft carrier in the Navy.

985
00:43:24,400 --> 00:43:32,480
We call it the decade of concern. We've

986
00:43:27,199 --> 00:43:35,199
seen a t-fold increase in the size of

987
00:43:32,480 --> 00:43:38,880
the PRC Navy. Technically speaking, the

988
00:43:35,199 --> 00:43:40,799
Chinese now have the largest navy in the

989
00:43:38,880 --> 00:43:43,440
world in terms of number of ships.

990
00:43:40,800 --> 00:43:45,280
Correct. Do the numbers matter? Yes. As

991
00:43:43,440 --> 00:43:48,559
the saying goes, quantity has equality

992
00:43:45,280 --> 00:43:51,519
all its own. At some point, are they

993
00:43:48,559 --> 00:43:53,679
going to reach numbers that we can't

994
00:43:51,519 --> 00:43:55,838
prevail over? I'm not comfortable with

995
00:43:53,679 --> 00:43:58,159
the trajectory. If you look at a map of

996
00:43:55,838 --> 00:44:00,000
the Indoacific, one thing becomes clear.

997
00:43:58,159 --> 00:44:04,399
There's a lot of water on that map. And

998
00:44:00,000 --> 00:44:06,800
so ours has to be a maritime strategy.

999
00:44:04,400 --> 00:44:08,960
Republican Mike Gallagher and Democrat

1000
00:44:06,800 --> 00:44:10,960
Elaine Lauria served together on the

1001
00:44:08,960 --> 00:44:13,519
House Armed Services Committee in the

1002
00:44:10,960 --> 00:44:15,679
last Congress. What is it about the US

1003
00:44:13,519 --> 00:44:17,679
Navy that has allowed the two of you to

1004
00:44:15,679 --> 00:44:19,519
find common cause? I think we share a

1005
00:44:17,679 --> 00:44:22,159
sense of the urgency of the moment. We

1006
00:44:19,519 --> 00:44:24,318
see increasing threats from China in

1007
00:44:22,159 --> 00:44:25,920
particular in the Indoacific. We feel

1008
00:44:24,318 --> 00:44:28,400
like we're not moving fast enough to

1009
00:44:25,920 --> 00:44:30,400
build a bigger navy. Congressman

1010
00:44:28,400 --> 00:44:32,960
Gallagher is a Marine veteran who

1011
00:44:30,400 --> 00:44:35,760
represents Green Bay, Wisconsin. He

1012
00:44:32,960 --> 00:44:37,760
chairs the new House Committee on China.

1013
00:44:35,760 --> 00:44:40,000
He's concerned that under the Navy's

1014
00:44:37,760 --> 00:44:44,319
current plan, the fleet will shrink to

1015
00:44:40,000 --> 00:44:47,199
about 280 ships by 2027, the same year

1016
00:44:44,318 --> 00:44:50,159
the CIA says China has set for having

1017
00:44:47,199 --> 00:44:52,078
the capability to take Taiwan by force.

1018
00:44:50,159 --> 00:44:54,960
So, we will be weakest when our enemy is

1019
00:44:52,079 --> 00:44:56,400
potentially strongest. China's increased

1020
00:44:54,960 --> 00:44:58,240
rhetoric and potential aggression

1021
00:44:56,400 --> 00:44:59,920
against Taiwan. We're going to have to

1022
00:44:58,239 --> 00:45:02,078
be ready to respond today with the

1023
00:44:59,920 --> 00:45:04,480
forces we have today. Former

1024
00:45:02,079 --> 00:45:07,359
Congresswoman Elaine Lauria represented

1025
00:45:04,480 --> 00:45:10,000
Virginia Beach until this past January.

1026
00:45:07,358 --> 00:45:12,159
Anapapolis graduate, Lauria had a

1027
00:45:10,000 --> 00:45:14,239
20-year naval career before being

1028
00:45:12,159 --> 00:45:17,039
elected to Congress. What would you say

1029
00:45:14,239 --> 00:45:18,879
the state of the US Navy is today? I

1030
00:45:17,039 --> 00:45:20,719
think the Navy has not received the

1031
00:45:18,880 --> 00:45:22,480
attention and resources that it needs

1032
00:45:20,719 --> 00:45:23,919
over two decades. I mean, I served on

1033
00:45:22,480 --> 00:45:26,240
six different ships. Every single one of

1034
00:45:23,920 --> 00:45:29,680
those ships was either built during or a

1035
00:45:26,239 --> 00:45:32,318
product of the fleet that was built um

1036
00:45:29,679 --> 00:45:34,239
in the Cold War. Both Mike Gallagher and

1037
00:45:32,318 --> 00:45:36,400
Elaine Lauria have lobbyed for

1038
00:45:34,239 --> 00:45:38,239
government money for the shipyards in or

1039
00:45:36,400 --> 00:45:40,559
near their districts, but they say this

1040
00:45:38,239 --> 00:45:42,639
is less about jobs and more about

1041
00:45:40,559 --> 00:45:44,078
national security. Yeah, if we don't get

1042
00:45:42,639 --> 00:45:45,519
this right, all of these other things

1043
00:45:44,079 --> 00:45:46,880
we're doing in Congress ultimately that

1044
00:45:45,519 --> 00:45:48,719
might not matter. If you think about

1045
00:45:46,880 --> 00:45:50,640
what a coherent grand strategy visa v

1046
00:45:48,719 --> 00:45:52,159
China would be, hard power would be the

1047
00:45:50,639 --> 00:45:53,838
most important part of that and the Navy

1048
00:45:52,159 --> 00:45:56,480
would be the most important component of

1049
00:45:53,838 --> 00:45:58,799
your hard power investments.

1050
00:45:56,480 --> 00:46:02,559
Over the last two decades, the Navy

1051
00:45:58,800 --> 00:46:05,599
spent $55 billion on two investments

1052
00:46:02,559 --> 00:46:07,440
that did not pan out. The first was a

1053
00:46:05,599 --> 00:46:10,318
class of destroyers known as the

1054
00:46:07,440 --> 00:46:13,159
Zoomwalt. The futuristic fighting ships

1055
00:46:10,318 --> 00:46:16,719
were supposed to revolutionize naval

1056
00:46:13,159 --> 00:46:19,279
warfare. 32 were ordered, but only three

1057
00:46:16,719 --> 00:46:22,519
were ever launched. The cost of each

1058
00:46:19,280 --> 00:46:25,760
ship, by one estimate, was upwards of 8

1059
00:46:22,519 --> 00:46:30,000
billion, making them the three most

1060
00:46:25,760 --> 00:46:32,480
expensive destroyers ever put to sea.

1061
00:46:30,000 --> 00:46:35,519
Another example is the latoral combat

1062
00:46:32,480 --> 00:46:38,119
ship or LCS designed to be a fast

1063
00:46:35,519 --> 00:46:41,920
all-purpose warship for shallow

1064
00:46:38,119 --> 00:46:44,800
waters. $30 billion later, the program

1065
00:46:41,920 --> 00:46:47,599
ran a ground after structural defects

1066
00:46:44,800 --> 00:46:50,800
and engine trouble. Within the Navy, the

1067
00:46:47,599 --> 00:46:53,680
LCS earned the unfortunate nickname

1068
00:46:50,800 --> 00:46:56,000
little crappy ship. The Navy's last few

1069
00:46:53,679 --> 00:46:57,919
decades have been described as a lost

1070
00:46:56,000 --> 00:47:01,119
generation of ship building. Is that

1071
00:46:57,920 --> 00:47:04,000
overly dramatic? I don't think so. We're

1072
00:47:01,119 --> 00:47:05,440
still struggling to build ships on time,

1073
00:47:04,000 --> 00:47:07,358
on budget, and that's something we

1074
00:47:05,440 --> 00:47:09,358
absolutely need to fix going forward.

1075
00:47:07,358 --> 00:47:11,838
This past March, we spoke with Admiral

1076
00:47:09,358 --> 00:47:14,318
Mike Gilde at the Pentagon. He is the

1077
00:47:11,838 --> 00:47:16,719
chief of naval operations and is

1078
00:47:14,318 --> 00:47:19,759
responsible for building, maintaining,

1079
00:47:16,719 --> 00:47:22,799
and equipping the entire US Navy. Is the

1080
00:47:19,760 --> 00:47:26,079
Navy in crisis? No, the Navy is not in

1081
00:47:22,800 --> 00:47:28,720
crisis. The Navy is out on point every

1082
00:47:26,079 --> 00:47:31,680
single day. Is it being outpaced by

1083
00:47:28,719 --> 00:47:34,399
China? No. Our Navy is still in a

1084
00:47:31,679 --> 00:47:36,879
position to prevail, but um that's not

1085
00:47:34,400 --> 00:47:38,720
blind confidence. We are concerned with

1086
00:47:36,880 --> 00:47:41,358
the trajectory that China's on with

1087
00:47:38,719 --> 00:47:43,679
China's behavior, but we are in a good

1088
00:47:41,358 --> 00:47:45,838
position right now uh if we did ever get

1089
00:47:43,679 --> 00:47:48,519
into a fight against them. How would you

1090
00:47:45,838 --> 00:47:51,119
describe what China has been able to do

1091
00:47:48,519 --> 00:47:53,440
militarily over the last 20 years? The

1092
00:47:51,119 --> 00:47:55,680
most alarming thing is the growth of not

1093
00:47:53,440 --> 00:47:57,838
only their conventional forces but also

1094
00:47:55,679 --> 00:48:00,639
their strategic nuclear forces, their

1095
00:47:57,838 --> 00:48:03,759
cyber capability, their space capability

1096
00:48:00,639 --> 00:48:06,400
and how they are using that to force

1097
00:48:03,760 --> 00:48:08,880
other nations uh navies out of certain

1098
00:48:06,400 --> 00:48:11,280
areas in the South China Sea. Instead of

1099
00:48:08,880 --> 00:48:13,760
recognizing international law, they want

1100
00:48:11,280 --> 00:48:17,200
to control where those goods flow and

1101
00:48:13,760 --> 00:48:19,119
how. What lessons did the US Navy learn

1102
00:48:17,199 --> 00:48:21,118
from some of the ship building mistakes

1103
00:48:19,119 --> 00:48:23,440
of the last 20 years? I think one of the

1104
00:48:21,119 --> 00:48:26,960
things that we learned uh was that we

1105
00:48:23,440 --> 00:48:29,920
need to uh have the design well in place

1106
00:48:26,960 --> 00:48:32,240
before we begin bending metal. And so we

1107
00:48:29,920 --> 00:48:35,200
are going back uh to the past to what we

1108
00:48:32,239 --> 00:48:38,239
did in the 80s and the '9s. The Navy has

1109
00:48:35,199 --> 00:48:40,318
the lead. There is a tendency among the

1110
00:48:38,239 --> 00:48:42,799
great powers to look at each other's

1111
00:48:40,318 --> 00:48:45,279
naval buildups with deep suspicion.

1112
00:48:42,800 --> 00:48:48,079
Toshi Yoshihara of the Center for

1113
00:48:45,280 --> 00:48:50,480
Strategic and Budgetary Assessments may

1114
00:48:48,079 --> 00:48:52,960
know more than any scholar in the West

1115
00:48:50,480 --> 00:48:56,960
about China's Navy. China will have

1116
00:48:52,960 --> 00:48:59,838
about 440 ships by 2030 and that's

1117
00:48:56,960 --> 00:49:02,639
according to the Pentagon. Why is China

1118
00:48:59,838 --> 00:49:05,119
able to build more warships more quickly

1119
00:49:02,639 --> 00:49:06,719
than the US? China has clearly invested

1120
00:49:05,119 --> 00:49:09,280
in this defense industrial

1121
00:49:06,719 --> 00:49:11,199
infrastructure to produce these ships,

1122
00:49:09,280 --> 00:49:13,559
which allows them to produce multiple

1123
00:49:11,199 --> 00:49:16,159
ships simultaneously, essentially

1124
00:49:13,559 --> 00:49:19,040
outbuilding many of the Western navies

1125
00:49:16,159 --> 00:49:20,719
combined. China's Navy piggybacks on a

1126
00:49:19,039 --> 00:49:23,519
booming commercial ship building

1127
00:49:20,719 --> 00:49:26,480
industry kept afloat by generous state

1128
00:49:23,519 --> 00:49:29,440
subsidies, inexpensive materials, and

1129
00:49:26,480 --> 00:49:32,318
cheap labor. In the United States, it's

1130
00:49:29,440 --> 00:49:34,280
a different story. After the Cold War

1131
00:49:32,318 --> 00:49:36,719
ended, the ship building industry

1132
00:49:34,280 --> 00:49:39,440
consolidated and many of the yards where

1133
00:49:36,719 --> 00:49:41,439
ships were both built and maintained

1134
00:49:39,440 --> 00:49:43,358
closed down. What do you see when you

1135
00:49:41,440 --> 00:49:44,800
see China's ship building program? It's

1136
00:49:43,358 --> 00:49:47,598
very robust. Do we have enough

1137
00:49:44,800 --> 00:49:49,599
shipyards? No. I wish that we had more

1138
00:49:47,599 --> 00:49:51,760
commercial shipyards. Over my career,

1139
00:49:49,599 --> 00:49:54,318
we've gone from more than 30 shipyards

1140
00:49:51,760 --> 00:49:56,640
down to about seven that we rely upon a

1141
00:49:54,318 --> 00:49:59,358
day-to-day basis to build ships. One of

1142
00:49:56,639 --> 00:50:01,279
those yards is run by Huntington Les

1143
00:49:59,358 --> 00:50:06,078
Industries, which built the

1144
00:50:01,280 --> 00:50:06,079
state-of-the-art new Ford class aircraft

1145
00:50:07,639 --> 00:50:14,318
carrier. After controlled explosions in

1146
00:50:10,920 --> 00:50:17,119
2021 to prove it could withstand combat,

1147
00:50:14,318 --> 00:50:19,920
the Ford got closer to deployment, 6

1148
00:50:17,119 --> 00:50:22,720
years late and billions of dollars over

1149
00:50:19,920 --> 00:50:25,200
budget. The Navy's not just struggling

1150
00:50:22,719 --> 00:50:27,399
to build new ships on time. According to

1151
00:50:25,199 --> 00:50:30,239
the Government Accountability Office, or

1152
00:50:27,400 --> 00:50:33,039
GAO, there's a multi-year backlog

1153
00:50:30,239 --> 00:50:35,118
repairing the ships in the fleet. Our

1154
00:50:33,039 --> 00:50:37,318
maintenance backlog is one of the

1155
00:50:35,119 --> 00:50:40,720
primary things that I'm working on to

1156
00:50:37,318 --> 00:50:45,119
correct. So, just three years ago, we

1157
00:50:40,719 --> 00:50:47,519
had 7700 delay days. That is extra days

1158
00:50:45,119 --> 00:50:50,119
in a shipyard by ships when they weren't

1159
00:50:47,519 --> 00:50:53,358
operational. We have cut that down to

1160
00:50:50,119 --> 00:50:56,318
3,000. We are not satisfied. Maintenance

1161
00:50:53,358 --> 00:50:57,679
delays mean sailors can't come home

1162
00:50:56,318 --> 00:51:00,079
because the ship that's supposed to

1163
00:50:57,679 --> 00:51:02,558
replace them is not ready. It means

1164
00:51:00,079 --> 00:51:04,720
longer deployments. It means away from

1165
00:51:02,559 --> 00:51:06,800
your family more. That's a big strain on

1166
00:51:04,719 --> 00:51:09,118
the workforce. The more ships that we

1167
00:51:06,800 --> 00:51:11,119
can have available to send at sea

1168
00:51:09,119 --> 00:51:13,760
alleviates many of those problems that

1169
00:51:11,119 --> 00:51:17,119
you pointed out. Sailors join the Navy

1170
00:51:13,760 --> 00:51:19,119
to see the world. And so it's my job to

1171
00:51:17,119 --> 00:51:21,519
make sure that those maintenance delays

1172
00:51:19,119 --> 00:51:23,838
go to zero and we can get those ships to

1173
00:51:21,519 --> 00:51:26,400
sea as quickly as possible. In the last

1174
00:51:23,838 --> 00:51:28,480
year alone, at least 10 sailors assigned

1175
00:51:26,400 --> 00:51:30,800
to ships undergoing maintenance or

1176
00:51:28,480 --> 00:51:34,318
working at maintenance facilities have

1177
00:51:30,800 --> 00:51:37,280
died by suicide. It is a problem that

1178
00:51:34,318 --> 00:51:39,599
we're taking very, very seriously. And

1179
00:51:37,280 --> 00:51:41,760
down to every leader in our Navy,

1180
00:51:39,599 --> 00:51:43,599
everybody has a responsibility to look

1181
00:51:41,760 --> 00:51:45,760
out for each other, take care of each

1182
00:51:43,599 --> 00:51:48,318
other. There is no wrong door to knock

1183
00:51:45,760 --> 00:51:50,720
on when you need help. Admiral Gilde

1184
00:51:48,318 --> 00:51:53,838
says the US Navy's main advantage over

1185
00:51:50,719 --> 00:51:56,799
China is America's sailors. His goal is

1186
00:51:53,838 --> 00:51:59,199
to modernize the US fleet and have those

1187
00:51:56,800 --> 00:52:02,640
sailors serving alongside hundreds of

1188
00:51:59,199 --> 00:52:04,719
unmanned vessels by 2045. I think

1189
00:52:02,639 --> 00:52:07,759
unmanned is the future. And so I think

1190
00:52:04,719 --> 00:52:08,959
that uh some 40% of our fleet in the

1191
00:52:07,760 --> 00:52:10,880
future I believe is going to be

1192
00:52:08,960 --> 00:52:13,838
unmanned. Are these like underwater

1193
00:52:10,880 --> 00:52:16,160
drones? Some of them are highly capable,

1194
00:52:13,838 --> 00:52:18,639
capable of delivering mines and perhaps

1195
00:52:16,159 --> 00:52:21,598
other types of weapons. Admiral Gilde is

1196
00:52:18,639 --> 00:52:24,480
talking about the Orca, an extra-large

1197
00:52:21,599 --> 00:52:26,400
unmanned undersea vehicle. Can you say

1198
00:52:24,480 --> 00:52:28,400
what it will do or is that classified?

1199
00:52:26,400 --> 00:52:30,559
Well, uh, at a minimum, it'll have a

1200
00:52:28,400 --> 00:52:32,559
clandestine mine laying capability. So,

1201
00:52:30,559 --> 00:52:35,680
it'll be done in a way that is very

1202
00:52:32,559 --> 00:52:39,359
secretive, uh, but very effective. But

1203
00:52:35,679 --> 00:52:41,838
the GAO reports that it's already a

1204
00:52:39,358 --> 00:52:44,558
quarter of a billion dollars over budget

1205
00:52:41,838 --> 00:52:47,119
and three years behind schedule. Uh that

1206
00:52:44,559 --> 00:52:49,040
particular platform is behind schedule.

1207
00:52:47,119 --> 00:52:51,838
It's the first of a kind. When it

1208
00:52:49,039 --> 00:52:54,079
delivers, I see a very high return on

1209
00:52:51,838 --> 00:52:57,679
investment from that particular platform

1210
00:52:54,079 --> 00:53:01,519
because because uh it will be among the

1211
00:52:57,679 --> 00:53:03,919
most lethal and stealthy platforms uh in

1212
00:53:01,519 --> 00:53:06,719
the arsenal of the US military. The

1213
00:53:03,920 --> 00:53:10,240
Navy's total budget request for fiscal

1214
00:53:06,719 --> 00:53:13,679
year 2024 is over a quarter of a

1215
00:53:10,239 --> 00:53:17,679
trillion dollars, an 11 billion increase

1216
00:53:13,679 --> 00:53:20,639
from last year. The focus is on China.

1217
00:53:17,679 --> 00:53:22,799
The US defense posture is viewed as

1218
00:53:20,639 --> 00:53:24,879
aggressive by the Chinese. The foreign

1219
00:53:22,800 --> 00:53:27,280
minister just said, "Look, stop the

1220
00:53:24,880 --> 00:53:29,440
containment. This may lead to conflict."

1221
00:53:27,280 --> 00:53:32,280
Perhaps the Chinese minister doesn't

1222
00:53:29,440 --> 00:53:35,838
like the fact that the US Navy is

1223
00:53:32,280 --> 00:53:37,760
operating in collaboration with dozens

1224
00:53:35,838 --> 00:53:40,239
of navies around the world to ensure

1225
00:53:37,760 --> 00:53:44,000
that the Maritime Commons remains free

1226
00:53:40,239 --> 00:53:46,318
and open for all nations. The Chinese

1227
00:53:44,000 --> 00:53:48,079
want to dictate those terms and so they

1228
00:53:46,318 --> 00:53:50,318
don't like our presence, but our

1229
00:53:48,079 --> 00:53:53,440
presence is not intended to be

1230
00:53:50,318 --> 00:53:55,519
provocative. It's intended to assure and

1231
00:53:53,440 --> 00:53:57,760
to reassure allies and partners around

1232
00:53:55,519 --> 00:54:00,159
the world that those sea lanes do remain

1233
00:53:57,760 --> 00:54:03,720
open. The global economy literally

1234
00:54:00,159 --> 00:54:03,719
floats on seawater.