Who are the people?
>> Who who are the modern? Yes. Who are who
are the descendants? So, we know and I
believe and I agree with you as a
Christian that God promised
>> this land from modern day Iraq to modern
day Egypt to this people, the Jews, to
Abram's actually not to the to Abram's
descendants as it says in Genesis 15.
Who are his descendants now? And how do
we know who they are?
>> I think they're the Jews. And we know
who they are because they've always been
a Jewish people. There has been an
unbroken line of Jewish people and
they've lived in this land for 3,800
years. Sometimes not very many of them
because they were chased out all over
the world. They were hunted down. They
were almost annihilated during the
Holocaust. They came back to this day.
Tucker, they represent, you know, how
many Jews there are in the whole world.
>> Please, I understand. First of all, the
greatest genocide of Jews no one ever
mentions was by the Romans where they
were literally banned from Jerusalem for
500 years.
>> Yeah. Of course.
>> And and it's all awful. And I'm opposed
to all of that. I'm opposed to mass
killing of anybody. Period. I'm opposed
to
>> you say that.
>> I mean it.
>> Yeah.
>> And I hope I believe that.
>> My question is, and it's not a bumper
sticker answer. It's a sincere answer.
How do we know? Because what you're
>> saying is that certain people have a
title to a highly contested region. They
own it in some deep sense.
>> So I think it's fair to ask, who are
they? And how do we know? So the current
prime minister's ancestors weren't from
here within recorded history. They're he
has no deed. BB Netanyahu on one side is
families from Poland. They're from
Eastern Europe. So how do we know that
he has a connection to the people
who God promised the land to Abram's
descendants? How do we know that? Well,
if you take the genealogies that come
not only from the Old but the New
Testament, you see that there is a
historical connection through the
entirety of the Old and the New
Testament that details the Jewish
connection to this land.
>> Does that include his family? How do we
know that if his family scattered?
>> But how do we know it's the same people?
>> No. Why is that crazy? If if if you say
to me if they speak the same language,
if they worship the same God, if they
follow the same Bible, if they follow
the same cultures and traditions and
they always pray next year in Jerusalem
and they pray for the peace of Jerusalem
and they pray facing toward Jerusalem,
does that not give you a little bit of a
clue as to who they are? Let's go
through those things because I would
like to have a rational This is the
conversation I've wanted. Bless you.
Thank you for doing this.
>> Um, let's just go through those things.
>> Okay. So, one of the things I admire
most about Israel is they resurrected a
dead language in 1948. Good for them.
>> Well, they really didn't resurrect it.
It It was existent.
>> Okay. I'm not That's not That's a
compliment. I'm not slight no. But it is
the first time in all of human history
that a language has survived through
this length of time. It's it's it's I
would call it You might not, but I would
call it a miracle. One of many,
>> okay, that you can attribute to this.
>> I think it's wonderful as someone who
loves language. Netanyahu's parents did
not speak Hebrew. Okay? They didn't live
in this region. Netanyahu, the founders
of this country were mostly secular.
Some of them were avowed atheists. They
were not praying for the peace of
Jerusalem. They weren't praying at all
because they didn't believe in God.
>> There's no genealogy linking their
families to the people of this land
3,000 years ago. They're none. So, how
do we know since they didn't share a
language? They didn't share a religion.
They had no religion whatsoever.
How do we know that they had a right to
come here from Eastern Europe? And
>> but they were scattered.
>> They were scattered to Eastern Europe.
They were scattered all over the world.
There were many in Ethiopia. They were
in Russia. They were in Poland.
>> They were throughout Asia.
>> Jews were all over the place, but they
were still Jews. But they were still
Jews.
>> Okay. So, let me get to the nub of the
question since again, a lot is at stake.
A lot of money is at stake. land is very
valuable.
Uh, Israel has a lot of resources. By
the way, if you're accused of a crime,
you can hide here. That's pretty good
passport to have. It's a good thing,
right? So, who's entitled to it? I don't
understand. And you're very discouraged
in the United States from asking this
question for some reason. It's a totally
rational discourage.
>> No, you're not discouraging. Others do.
You're like the only person I have this
conversation with. Every be like, "Shut
up, Nazi."
>> It It's a foundational question. Are you
speaking of an ethnic group or a
religious group?
>> Well, I think you're looking at for many
people it is religious. There are people
who may not have a deep religious
connection to Judaism, but they're still
Jews.
>> Okay? So, it's it's an ethnic category.
>> It is ethnic, but it is also religious.
It is rooted in religion. You can't take
it out of it. Now, that means
>> then how can an atheist
>> Well, I will tell you this. There are
some people who say, "I'm Christian."
They never go to church. They never
pray. They never read their Bible. They
don't tithe.
>> But they're not entitled to citizenship
on the basis of that. They're not
entitled to they still call themselves
Christian. Even though they identify
here's the difference. You're saying
that people who have this identification
have a deed to a huge chunk of land on
the Mediterranean. Okay. So there's, you
know, it's a it's a right. You keep
telling me it's a right. And so it's
totally fair to say if you come to my
house and say I've got the title to your
house, I get to ask, may I see it?
Where'd you get it? And that's exactly
what happened here. People from Europe,
Eastern Europe, came here. In a lot of
cases, atheists and kicked out a lot of
people who lived here land.
>> Well, they did not just throw people
out.
>> They bought a lot of land. There's no
question about that. Buy a lot of land,
>> but they also in 1948 kicked out a lot
of people in the war.
>> It was a war. I agree. I'm not, look,
I'm not want to relitigate the history.
I'm just saying it's a fact.
>> Okay?
>> Including a lot of Christians, a lot of
Christians
>> uh wound up fleeing
>> and they lost their homes and they've
never been allowed back. And all of this
was justified on the basis of this
identity that forms that is the ticket
to the right that you keep referring to.
So my question is very simple. I'm going
to wait patiently for an answer. Does
this right derive from religious
affiliation
or from genetics? And I would say it's
both. But I would also say that when you
said the Christians were kicked out,
Tucker, Christianity is growing in
Israel.
>> Okay. But and and there is a big lie
that goes out there. But but no, let me
finish this because I I keep hearing
that Christians are
>> really not treated well in Israel.
That's just simply that's a lie.
>> Well, there are lots there are lots of
different
>> There were 34,000 Christians in Israel
in 1948. There are 184,000 Christians
here today.
>> And by Israel, what are you counting?
You talking about the land?
>> What? What? What territory? Are you
counting? You're counting Israel proper?
Are you counting the West Bank as well
and Gaza? I mean, what what do you when
you say Israel, those numbers apply to
what land mass?
>> It would be in Israel proper. Okay,
there 184,000.
>> Now, I'll tell you where Christians are
not doing very well. They're not doing
very well in the Muslim control
countries. There's almost no Christians
in Qatar, for example, except those who
live in the Christian ghetto who are the
service workers.
>> I'm sorry. Look, I don't want to argue
with you. There there are many more
Christians in Qatar than there are in
Israel.
>> That's not true.
>> What it actually is true and I refer you
to Wikipedia, Mr. Ambassador.
>> Wikipedia that
>> I refer you to the government of Qar,
the government of Israel. These are
knowable facts. Like I'm And I'm in
Jordan by the numbers are down. In
Syria, the numbers are down. In Lebanon,
the numbers are down. just tell you that
>> about twice as many Christians,
>> but they live in the enclave. They are
not native Qataris.
>> Okay, we're we're mixing so many
different categories here. I'm just
saying I get things wrong all the time.
You've just gotten something wrong. And
I think it's important to acknowledge
it. There are many more Christians in
Qar than there are in Israel. Fact.
>> How many?
>> Now, you caught me. I don't know. I
could look at my phone, but I was just
there and there many more like whatever.
But I just want to get to the point
that forms the basis of this whole
conversation which is who has a right to
the land.
>> Yeah.
>> And you said it's a mixture of religion
and ethnicity because as I noted and you
agree many of the founders maybe the
majority of the founders of modern
Israel did not believe in God at all. So
they were not religious Jews. They
weren't religious at all. They were
atheists. They said they were atheists.
I believe them.
>> So that suggests it's ethnic. But it's
also true, as you well know, because
there was a famous court case about
this, that ethnic Jews who convert to
Christianity do not have the right of
return. That was settled by the Israeli
Supreme Court.
I'm very confused. So, that would
suggest it's not ethnicity because you
invalidate your Jewishness by converting
to Christianity.
>> There are a number of Messianic Jews who
live in Israel,
who are here. I'm aware of this. I'm
aware of that number, but you're not
contesting what I'm saying because it's
a very famous court case.
>> The right of return has to do with your
mother, your grandmother. It has to do
with family ties. Ethnic
>> there is a lot of sure ethnicity is a
big part of the right of return to make
aliyah to come to Israel to live here.
Then if I if both of your parents are
Jewish and you have an ethnic right to
land, you are one of Abram's
descendants,
but you convert to Christianity. How is
it you don't have the right to return?
I'm totally confused.
>> But I know a number of people who have
returned as Christians, but have Jewish
history.
>> Are you saying that Jews who convert to
Christianity have a right, a legal right
to return? Cuz I
>> I know that they do. Whether when you
say do they have a right to return do
they prove
>> it's a it's a legal category as in any
government by their family history their
grandmother their mother and there are
many aspects of that
>> I've read it I think I know that these
were people who were Christian and they
came here made aliyah they had Jewish
blood Jewish history they were Christian
messianic but they came here and they
were welcomed here
>> and they were given full legal rights
and a passport. So, so clearly
>> that's not it's not true that you
invalidate your right of return by
converting to Christianity. That's just
false.
>> I'm not aware of that. I I know that
there are a number of Christians here. I
go to church with Christians every week
here.
>> Of course. But do you have a right to
come and say I am an ethnic Jew even
though I practice Christianity.
Therefore, I have every bit as much
right to move into a settlement in the
West Bank or into East Jerusale or
anywhere I want, Galilee, anywhere
because I am returning to the land of my
forefathers of a legal right in the
state of Israel even though I've
converted to Christianity. You're saying
that's true.
>> I'm saying I know people have done it.
Now, can can I tell you what the law
specifically is? I'm not sure because
>> Well, it's really a Christian. I'm not I
don't have any Jewish roots, so
therefore I cannot quote you the law. If
you want me to do that, I'll look at
>> Well, it really matters because you're
saying, in fact, people in the United
States are being called anti-semites.
>> A lot of them, including me, because
they somehow don't believe that Israel
has a right to this land.
>> Do you think Israel has a right to this
land?
>> No. You haven't defined what the land
is, and you haven't defined who Israel
is, so I really don't know.
>> No, it is the land they're living in
now. The borders that they have,
>> the borders are moving. The borders have
moved in the last year.
>> What do you mean the borders have moved
in the last
>> Well, they they are the 1967 borders.
I'm including, you know, the the West
>> East Jerusalem and Judea and Samaria.
>> What are the borders of Judea and
Samaria?
>> Well, you basically take the Jordan
River and it's west of the Jordan River
to the Mediterranean Sea to the Lebanon
border and uh Israel did have control of
the Sinai. They gave that to Egypt. They
had control of it,
>> right?
>> They gave it away in 1979 in the peace
agreement.
>> Um,
>> but okay. So, we whatever you call it,
the land that was taken from Jordan in
1967, you call it Judea and Samaria.
There's a significance to that that I
>> don't fully understand. I'm against it.
I don't know what it it's 80% of the
Bible happened in Judea and Samaria. But
we've also established that the Bible
gives Jews the right to occupy the land
from the Nile to the Euphrates. So I'm
very confused by why we've shrunk the
land and why we're dis
>> Israel has shrunk the land. They have
made that decision. That's why they gave
away.
>> Now my land given away a lot of things.
>> Abram's descendants are the ones who
have the right to have this land.
Correct.
>> Yes.
>> Okay. Why don't we do genetic testing on
everybody in the land and find out who
Abram's descendants are? It's really
simple. We've cracked the human genome.
We can do that. Why don't we do that?
Would you be against doing that?
>> I I have no idea what that would prove.
I mean, maybe it would be
>> What do you mean what it would? It would
prove who Abram's descendants are and
who has a a right to live here and who
doesn't according to the theology that
you yourself just explained. And so I'm
very confused as to why we don't do
that. If you believe the theology that
you've just explained to me, would we do
that all over the world? Everybody,
>> this is the only country in the world
that you've said has
this covenant with God, that this people
have a moral and legal right to the
land.
>> What about people who convert to
Judaism? Would they have a right?
>> Well, you've just
you've just said to Judaism, so you just
told me
>> they can make aliyah. They may not have
you just told me that it doesn't matter.
You told me moments ago, trying to keep
track,
>> okay,
>> that it doesn't matter whether or not
you believe in God or whether or not you
practice Torah Judaism or rabbitic
Judaism, which is something else that I
I don't even know if we should I don't
even know what that means. But it
doesn't matter whether you're quote a
religious Jew or not. What matters is
that you are part of the Jewish people
to whom God gave this land that extends
from the Nile to the Euphrates. And so
if you believe that, wouldn't you want
to know with a burning passion who those
people are? And because of science, we
can now know who those people are.
>> So why aren't we finding out?
>> I guess you could propose a DNA test for
everybody who comes here, everybody who
lives here. But the point
>> I'm comfortable with secular nation
states where it's none of this is done
on the basis of blood. I'm uncomfortable
with that. I'll just say that. But there
are people who may not have bloodlines
but who have converted to Judaism.
Are they going to be able to live here?
Are you going to kick them out?
>> By your standards, they can't live here
because you just said that they have a
right to live here because God gave them
the land because they're the descendants
of Abram.
>> They're the descendants of Abraham. But
if they're the spiritual descendants of
Abraham and they've now decided that
they're converting to Judaism,
then do they have a right to live in
Israel? I well there's a whole legal
literature in Israel on that question
and my understanding is that certain
types of modern Judaism qualify a person
and other types don't is that your
understanding
>> I don't believe that people converted
and I could have this wrong but I know
people who've faced this personally know
people I don't believe people who've
converted in a reform synagogue have the
right of return. I I don't think that is
because I know people who've married
into Jewish families and they find out
they don't have the right of return. So
that is perplexing to me.
Thanks for watching our YouTube channel.
We hope you'll subscribe to it. And by
the way, you can hit the little bell on
there and get notifications every time
we produce a video. We hope you'll do
that also.