WEBVTT

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Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out.

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>> The Joe Rogan Experience.

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>> TRAIN BY DAY. JOE ROGAN PODCAST BY

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NIGHT. All day.

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>> Yeah, I was listening to Tim. First of

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all, hello.

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>> What's up?

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>> Good to see you, my friend.

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>> Great to see you.

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>> Uh, we were listening to Tim Dylan. I I

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was listening to on the way over here

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and he was talking about uh Anna Paulina

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Luna and Tim Bchett and Trump. They're

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all talking about the UAP disclosures

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and like why now? Like what are they

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doing? Like why are they distracting us

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with this? Timberchet said that whatever

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they're going to release it will be

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indigestible.

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>> What does that mean?

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>> Right.

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>> Indigestible as in or well then it

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doesn't mean that it's real then.

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>> Well, I think it means that it'll be so

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crazy if it's real. So crazy. He's the

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one that's been saying that there's

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these confirmed bases under the ocean,

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that there's these specific locations. I

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think you talked you're shaking your

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head. You don't believe a word of it.

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>> No.

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>> How come?

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>> I think I think it's true that there

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look,

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it's completely implausible that there

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aren't other species,

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>> right?

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>> Completely implausible.

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>> Just the vastness of what we're dealing

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with. So the real question is like why

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haven't we encountered people or those

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things those beings,

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>> right?

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>> And it's probably because they just they

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have bigger fish to fry, you know? So by

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the time that we meet them and they meet

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us, we're we're going to kind of be at

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the edge of like we've we've kind of

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been there done that on our own planet

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and then we've kind of like developed

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the technology I guess to get beyond it.

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Um but somewhere along the way there

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must have been a few just mathematically

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impossible. So then the question is, is

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it buried? Or were people confused when

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it first came here? Like if you had a

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spaceship land in like the 1800s,

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>> right?

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>> What would people have done? They would

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have just freaked out. They wouldn't

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have understood it. Maybe they would

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have buried it. Depending on where it

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was, maybe they started to pray to it,

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>> right?

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>> And you would have just moved on. And

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then that isn't documented in history.

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So,

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>> but it is.

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>> But how?

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>> It is. There's a lot of it documented in

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history.

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>> Oh, you mean like hieroglyphics and like

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monuments?

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>> Well, the book of Ezekiel. The book of

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Ezekiel goes in depth about some sort of

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a UFO encounter that Ezekiel

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experiences,

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>> right?

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>> Where it's a wheel within a wheel and a

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a cloud with fire flashing forth

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continually in the midst of a cloud as

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it were gleaming metal and from the

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midst of it came the likeness of four

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living creatures and the creatures

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darted to and fro like the appearance of

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a flash of lightning. This is all in the

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Bible. Um it's also in the Mahabarada.

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Um they they talk about vaymanas these

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flying crafts and

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>> I think it's entirely possible that we

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have been visited periodically

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>> and that we are we have been monitored

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and that we are monitored.

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>> I agree

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>> currently.

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>> I agree.

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>> And if I was going to hide, I would hide

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in the ocean.

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>> Well, to be honest, as I get older, I'm

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convinced

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>> we're basically in some form of a

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simulation. There's like all these

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little ingredients

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>> that if you start to see these little

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clues, you're like,

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>> they all seem so odd in isolation and

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then when you put them together, I feel

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like a crazy person. So, I ignore

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myself,

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>> right?

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>> But I wonder like why did this happen?

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Like yesterday, I was um at a dinner in

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LA before I came to see you. And um I

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told this very interesting story. Well,

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or I thought it was interesting at the

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time. Um

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you know that like so in 2000, right? If

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you think of like what happened in tech

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since 2000, so the last 26 years,

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people can give you all kinds of like

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fancy theories,

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but there's just like this weird

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word that's been at the center of every

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single technological revolution for the

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last 30 years. And that word is

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attention. Let me explain this to you.

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Google, they invent Google. What is

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Google? Google is a algorithm. It's

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called page rank. But if you look inside

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of it, what is it? It says, "Well,

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Chimath's website has five links to it.

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Joe's website has two links. He's

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getting more attention." Okay, Chimath's

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website is more important. That's the

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sum total of Google. Now, they've made

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that a lot more refined and they've done

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all these other fancy things,

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but it's all about attention. Mhm.

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>> Fast forward to 2007 89 when you know

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Zuck and then when I went to work for

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Zuck and we got on the scene and we're

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like what do everybody what does

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everybody care about? Attention. And so

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what is like the Facebook algorithm?

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What's the Instagram algorithm? You know

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how did we construct newsfeed all around

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attention? Joe had 35 likes. Jamie had

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12 likes. Your thing is more important.

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Let's give it more more importance

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because it's seemingly meeting all these

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human needs. Attention. Attention.

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attention. So phase one attention, phase

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two attention, and this is where I'm

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like, how can this be possible? In phase

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three, we're like looking at AI. And

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when you look backwards four years, the

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seminal paper is called attention is all

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you need. It's about this word again.

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And when you look inside of the core

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part, if you peel out peel, you know,

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apart AI,

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the little brain that makes it so

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capable, it's called an attention

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mechanism. It's just attention. It's all

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about again this idea of I'm gonna scour

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all this information and I'm gonna

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figure out what patterns repeat itself

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and I'm just going to double down on the

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stuff that I see more of because that

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attention must mean it's more important.

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It's more true. It's more knowledgeable

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and then I think how could it be like

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we're all like why is it that these

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things are just repeating over and over

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again? And I just get confused. I don't

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I don't exactly know how to explain it.

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So are there other ways in which we

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should be doing things? Absolutely. Have

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we even explored it? No. So then I

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think, well, is this just a simulation?

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Some kid in a [ __ ] in his house just

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playing some simulation and we're all

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just party to it and that's all he

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understands is attention. I don't know.

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>> I don't think it's that simple that

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there's a person playing a game. But if

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you break down just attention, well,

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that's all of human history is paying

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attention to the king, paying attention

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to the war, paying attention to

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resources, paying attention to who says

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the thing that resonates the most with

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the people. It's all about what human

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beings are paying attention to.

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>> I think it's part of it. Then there's

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also what is actually true. And I think

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sometimes what is true and what people

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pay attention to are not the same thing.

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>> True.

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>> And sometimes the thing that you should

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be paying attention to gets lost because

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the thing that you are paying attention

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to gets more attention because it's more

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interesting and useful. That's sort of

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where we are right now. We're in this

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really weird phase, I think, where

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you actually like should be focused on

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this thing over here and instead we're

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all focused on all these things over

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here. or give me an example.

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>> Um,

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here's like a very big one. I think like

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it's pretty fair to say since the last

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time you and I saw each other on this

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show,

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the attitude towards technology, I

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think, has been pretty profoundly

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negative. It's kind of tilted. It's

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relatively like anti-AI,

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you know, anti-billionaires. It's anti-

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all of this stuff.

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Um, and it manifests in all of these

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interesting ways. There's protests,

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there's data centers, there's all of

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this stuff that's happening. Um, people

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are worried about job loss. All of that

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stuff is real.

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>> Do you want a cigar?

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>> No, I'm okay. I'm okay. Um,

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but what should they really be focused

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upon? And I think what they should be

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really focused upon is we're at the tail

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end of a cycle that doesn't work

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anymore, which is all about like this

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tension between labor, people that do

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the work, and capital, the people that

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fund it and then make all the returns.

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And over the last 40 years, we've

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basically gone to this completely upside

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down world where capital extracts all of

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the upside

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and labor has extracted less and less

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and less and less. And all of this push

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back, it manifests in AI, it manifests

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in politics, it manifests in social

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issues, it manifests in, you know,

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Israel, whatever you want to talk about.

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All of these issues, I think

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symptomologically,

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come from this other issue, which is we

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are out of balance. This total compact

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that we used to have, a liberal

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democracy and a free market has totally

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collapsed. And there are simple ways to

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fix that, but that never gets the

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attention because it's not what you want

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to talk about. the attention is here,

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you know, vote no to the data center.

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You know, uh this model is going to take

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out all the jobs. Um

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you know, this social issue is really

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important. That war should not be

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fought. That war should be fought. All

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of these things while important

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distract us from what the core issue is.

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And the core issue is that we as a

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society, I think, are out of balance.

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the the natural compact between all of

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us is broken and there are some simple

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ways to fix that compact. Get people

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more invested, get people more engaged

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in the upside, have people have a

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positive some view of what's happening

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and that isn't happening.

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>> Well, what what simple solutions are

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there to to this one very particular

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issue?

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>> Okay, I'll get your reaction to this.

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Let's assume that you still lived in

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California because I think it it tells

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this example in a more extreme way.

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>> Okay. Um, let's say you make a million

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bucks a year, which is a lot of money,

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but it it makes the it makes the point

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more cleanly. Um,

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you'd pay, I think, 30%

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federal tax and you'd pay another 15 or

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16% in state tax and Medicare tax and

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all this tax. So, if you're a wage

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earner,

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50% of all your upside

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goes to the government.

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If you're a capital earnner and you make

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that same million dollars via capital

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gains, you pay half that tax.

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Why did that happen? That happened

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because in the 40s and 50s, but really

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in the 60s and 70s and 80s,

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what we were trying to do or what the

00:10:30.879 --> 00:10:35.360
American government and what western

00:10:32.480 --> 00:10:38.159
societies were trying to do was to

00:10:35.360 --> 00:10:41.200
convince people to invest their money.

00:10:38.159 --> 00:10:42.958
Hey Joe, go build that factory. Go hire

00:10:41.200 --> 00:10:45.839
those people and we're going to

00:10:42.958 --> 00:10:48.078
incentivize you to do so.

00:10:45.839 --> 00:10:50.079
And by doing that, there was this idea

00:10:48.078 --> 00:10:51.838
that that all of those profits that you

00:10:50.078 --> 00:10:54.078
would get would then diffuse, right,

00:10:51.839 --> 00:10:55.600
trickle down into everybody else. The

00:10:54.078 --> 00:10:57.519
workers participated, everybody

00:10:55.600 --> 00:10:59.278
participated.

00:10:57.519 --> 00:11:02.000
But technology allows you to do more

00:10:59.278 --> 00:11:06.078
with less and less. So now what happens

00:11:02.000 --> 00:11:10.159
is the capital owners can acrue

00:11:06.078 --> 00:11:11.759
infinite almost it seems like value and

00:11:10.159 --> 00:11:12.958
the workers get less and less. But now

00:11:11.759 --> 00:11:14.559
if you get less and less and you're

00:11:12.958 --> 00:11:16.319
taxed more and more as a percentage of

00:11:14.559 --> 00:11:17.679
what you own, you're going to feel

00:11:16.320 --> 00:11:19.360
really out of sorts. You're going to be

00:11:17.679 --> 00:11:21.679
like, why am I paying 50 cents of every

00:11:19.360 --> 00:11:23.440
dollar? And I see these other ways where

00:11:21.679 --> 00:11:24.958
folks are paying 25 cents on their

00:11:23.440 --> 00:11:27.440
dollars, but their dollars are

00:11:24.958 --> 00:11:29.199
compounding way faster and they have,

00:11:27.440 --> 00:11:31.200
you know, hundreds of billions more of

00:11:29.200 --> 00:11:33.120
those dollars than I have of my dollars.

00:11:31.200 --> 00:11:35.600
If you take that example and you expand

00:11:33.120 --> 00:11:37.039
it across society, I think people

00:11:35.600 --> 00:11:38.560
understand that now. There's enough

00:11:37.039 --> 00:11:40.240
information and there's enough people

00:11:38.559 --> 00:11:42.719
talking about it where it's pretty clear

00:11:40.240 --> 00:11:44.320
that that's happened. So the question is

00:11:42.720 --> 00:11:46.320
how do you fix it? I think like if you

00:11:44.320 --> 00:11:47.600
think about AI and if you believe that

00:11:46.320 --> 00:11:50.480
we're going to get into this world of

00:11:47.600 --> 00:11:52.720
abundance

00:11:50.480 --> 00:11:54.560
and we're not working, what does it mean

00:11:52.720 --> 00:11:56.800
for governments to tax our labor? There

00:11:54.559 --> 00:11:58.078
is no labor. You're not working anymore.

00:11:56.799 --> 00:11:59.919
I'm not working. We're doing things out

00:11:58.078 --> 00:12:01.278
of leisure.

00:11:59.919 --> 00:12:02.559
Why should I pay 50 cents of every

00:12:01.278 --> 00:12:03.919
dollar? Why aren't the companies that

00:12:02.559 --> 00:12:06.559
are going to be making trillions of

00:12:03.919 --> 00:12:08.240
dollars, why don't they pay more?

00:12:06.559 --> 00:12:11.599
Why isn't there, you know, an

00:12:08.240 --> 00:12:13.759
expectation that they then help our

00:12:11.600 --> 00:12:16.320
lived society

00:12:13.759 --> 00:12:18.559
do better and thrive as a result of all

00:12:16.320 --> 00:12:21.680
of that winning? That's the real

00:12:18.559 --> 00:12:23.199
conversation that I think is

00:12:21.679 --> 00:12:25.759
bubbling.

00:12:23.200 --> 00:12:28.959
And I think that we're probably another

00:12:25.759 --> 00:12:30.879
12 to 18 months where all of these other

00:12:28.958 --> 00:12:32.559
issues are going to be important, but

00:12:30.879 --> 00:12:34.480
they're going to be viewed for for what

00:12:32.559 --> 00:12:36.799
they are. um they're going to get

00:12:34.480 --> 00:12:39.360
demoted I think in importance and it's

00:12:36.799 --> 00:12:41.359
this core structural issue it's what is

00:12:39.360 --> 00:12:43.360
the economic relationship that we have

00:12:41.360 --> 00:12:46.159
together as a society what is the

00:12:43.360 --> 00:12:50.000
relationship between Joe Chamath Jamie

00:12:46.159 --> 00:12:52.958
and all these companies and how do we

00:12:50.000 --> 00:12:57.519
feel about a few and an evershrinking

00:12:52.958 --> 00:13:00.399
few making more and more and more

00:12:57.519 --> 00:13:03.519
and then how do we feel about their

00:13:00.399 --> 00:13:05.679
ability to share that with a small

00:13:03.519 --> 00:13:07.600
amount of people

00:13:05.679 --> 00:13:09.838
and then what do what is the expectation

00:13:07.600 --> 00:13:12.800
for everybody else? I think that's

00:13:09.839 --> 00:13:15.360
mostly at the core of what's happening.

00:13:12.799 --> 00:13:16.799
And so back to like, you know, all of

00:13:15.360 --> 00:13:18.399
this attention that we give to these

00:13:16.799 --> 00:13:20.000
other issues distracts from that one

00:13:18.399 --> 00:13:21.519
because I think you can get organized to

00:13:20.000 --> 00:13:23.120
fix this issue. You can't get

00:13:21.519 --> 00:13:23.759
concessions on any of these issues.

00:13:23.120 --> 00:13:25.278
>> Mhm.

00:13:23.759 --> 00:13:26.958
>> You know, you bring up Israel, it's like

00:13:25.278 --> 00:13:28.480
this. You bring up social issues, it's

00:13:26.958 --> 00:13:30.000
like this. You bring up, you know,

00:13:28.480 --> 00:13:32.079
whatever you want to bring up, people

00:13:30.000 --> 00:13:34.480
just kind of take a side, nothing

00:13:32.078 --> 00:13:36.239
happens. This is actually where people

00:13:34.480 --> 00:13:38.560
are universally actually much more

00:13:36.240 --> 00:13:40.320
aligned than you think because there's

00:13:38.559 --> 00:13:41.919
reasonable ways. One simple way was is

00:13:40.320 --> 00:13:43.839
you'd say, well, let's flip the taxation

00:13:41.919 --> 00:13:46.479
model.

00:13:43.839 --> 00:13:49.519
Corporate taxes

00:13:46.480 --> 00:13:52.399
should exceed personal taxes. They've

00:13:49.519 --> 00:13:55.519
never

00:13:52.399 --> 00:13:57.039
we should have an expectation that then

00:13:55.519 --> 00:13:59.919
corporate

00:13:57.039 --> 00:14:01.838
actors can buy down their taxes if they

00:13:59.919 --> 00:14:03.278
want, but if they do social good for

00:14:01.839 --> 00:14:05.680
society. I'll give you an example. At

00:14:03.278 --> 00:14:08.078
the industrial revolution, there's a

00:14:05.679 --> 00:14:10.879
table like this and the leading lights

00:14:08.078 --> 00:14:15.198
of that era, Andrew Carnegie, Nelson

00:14:10.879 --> 00:14:17.679
Rockefeller, Jay Gould, JP Morgan,

00:14:15.198 --> 00:14:19.919
they sat together and they said, "Guys,

00:14:17.679 --> 00:14:21.919
this is going to benefit us this

00:14:19.919 --> 00:14:23.759
industrial revolution.

00:14:21.919 --> 00:14:25.198
It may not benefit everybody. What is

00:14:23.759 --> 00:14:27.519
our responsibility? What is our

00:14:25.198 --> 00:14:30.799
collective responsibility?"

00:14:27.519 --> 00:14:32.879
And they allocated tasks. Carnegie went

00:14:30.799 --> 00:14:34.879
and built libraries

00:14:32.879 --> 00:14:36.559
all throughout the country. Rockefeller

00:14:34.879 --> 00:14:39.039
built universities, hospitals were

00:14:36.559 --> 00:14:40.638
built. And I think what happened is

00:14:39.039 --> 00:14:44.399
society was like, "Wow, these are living

00:14:40.639 --> 00:14:45.680
testaments to us doing well." And so

00:14:44.399 --> 00:14:47.278
then they were okay with this

00:14:45.679 --> 00:14:48.799
transition.

00:14:47.278 --> 00:14:52.240
But if you think about it today, what

00:14:48.799 --> 00:14:54.319
are the living tributes that, you know,

00:14:52.240 --> 00:14:57.759
capital builds and leaves behind for

00:14:54.320 --> 00:14:59.680
society? It's fewer and fewer.

00:14:57.759 --> 00:15:01.838
I think that's a that's a very big

00:14:59.679 --> 00:15:04.799
opportunity for somebody to fill it. I

00:15:01.839 --> 00:15:06.800
think it's like especially for folks in

00:15:04.799 --> 00:15:08.958
tech. I think if they can get themselves

00:15:06.799 --> 00:15:10.879
organized to do that, I think we we land

00:15:08.958 --> 00:15:12.879
in a good place. If they cannot get

00:15:10.879 --> 00:15:16.078
themselves organized to do that and say

00:15:12.879 --> 00:15:17.838
everyone for themselves,

00:15:16.078 --> 00:15:20.958
I think it's going to be really

00:15:17.839 --> 00:15:21.519
complicated. Super messy. super messy

00:15:20.958 --> 00:15:22.479
because

00:15:21.519 --> 00:15:25.039
>> super messy

00:15:22.480 --> 00:15:26.879
>> that sentiment that the wealthy are

00:15:25.039 --> 00:15:29.919
getting wealthier and the middle class

00:15:26.879 --> 00:15:31.120
is disappearing and the poor are being

00:15:29.919 --> 00:15:34.719
taxed into oblivion.

00:15:31.120 --> 00:15:38.879
>> Look, an $80,000 year teacher pays 40%

00:15:34.720 --> 00:15:42.160
tax. But if you're a multi-billionaire,

00:15:38.879 --> 00:15:44.320
most of your wealth is not W2 wages.

00:15:42.159 --> 00:15:46.159
It's cap gains. But there's all kinds of

00:15:44.320 --> 00:15:48.959
ways to shelter cap gains. There's all

00:15:46.159 --> 00:15:52.000
kinds of ways to defer. And so even

00:15:48.958 --> 00:15:53.679
though you pay more on an absolute

00:15:52.000 --> 00:15:56.639
dollar basis, on a percentage basis,

00:15:53.679 --> 00:15:59.198
you're paying way way less. And all of

00:15:56.639 --> 00:16:01.600
those tricks have been exposed.

00:15:59.198 --> 00:16:03.519
They've all been exposed. These are all

00:16:01.600 --> 00:16:06.800
mechanisms that were that were, you

00:16:03.519 --> 00:16:08.799
know, invented from the 1980s to now,

00:16:06.799 --> 00:16:10.078
right? By all the by all the banks and

00:16:08.799 --> 00:16:12.319
all the folks that wanted to come to

00:16:10.078 --> 00:16:14.799
folks that had wealth. And so it's it's

00:16:12.320 --> 00:16:16.079
and it's all known. And I think people

00:16:14.799 --> 00:16:18.240
are kind of like, "Hey, hold on a

00:16:16.078 --> 00:16:19.838
second. This just doesn't feel fair

00:16:18.240 --> 00:16:23.120
anymore.

00:16:19.839 --> 00:16:27.680
>> Absolutely. But the other problem with

00:16:23.120 --> 00:16:30.639
that is if you do tax correctly, where

00:16:27.679 --> 00:16:33.838
does that money go? And who's managing

00:16:30.639 --> 00:16:36.399
it? And ultimately, who's managing it is

00:16:33.839 --> 00:16:39.440
the federal government. And they've been

00:16:36.399 --> 00:16:41.919
shown to be completely inept at managing

00:16:39.440 --> 00:16:44.560
your money correctly. The fraud and the

00:16:41.919 --> 00:16:47.919
waste is off the charts. the amount of

00:16:44.559 --> 00:16:49.359
NOS's that have insane amount of funds

00:16:47.919 --> 00:16:51.759
at their disposal. I mean all this is

00:16:49.360 --> 00:16:53.680
exposed by Doge, right? And you realize

00:16:51.759 --> 00:16:56.959
like how much fraud and waste there is

00:16:53.679 --> 00:16:59.278
and how much money. So the solution

00:16:56.958 --> 00:17:00.879
being tax people more

00:16:59.278 --> 00:17:03.039
>> that doesn't sit with a lot of people

00:17:00.879 --> 00:17:06.480
because it's like well where where is it

00:17:03.039 --> 00:17:09.599
going and who's managing it? If if the

00:17:06.480 --> 00:17:11.599
federal government was being forced to

00:17:09.599 --> 00:17:14.958
handle money the same way a private

00:17:11.599 --> 00:17:17.678
company does, if it was all out in the

00:17:14.959 --> 00:17:19.679
open, everything was exposed, they would

00:17:17.679 --> 00:17:21.839
have gone bankrupt a long time ago. They

00:17:19.679 --> 00:17:23.199
would have gone under a long time ago.

00:17:21.838 --> 00:17:25.599
There's no way they would have been

00:17:23.199 --> 00:17:27.279
allowed to function the way they are.

00:17:25.599 --> 00:17:29.439
The people that are managing that money

00:17:27.279 --> 00:17:32.798
would have all been put in jail. There's

00:17:29.440 --> 00:17:34.960
not a chance in hell that

00:17:32.798 --> 00:17:36.558
giving them more money is going to solve

00:17:34.960 --> 00:17:39.120
anything. They're going to find more

00:17:36.558 --> 00:17:41.359
ways to put more of that money into

00:17:39.119 --> 00:17:42.959
NOS's that puts more of that money into

00:17:41.359 --> 00:17:44.479
Democratic coffers and Republican

00:17:42.960 --> 00:17:46.480
coffers. They're going to figure out a

00:17:44.480 --> 00:17:48.720
way to funnel that money around where

00:17:46.480 --> 00:17:50.960
it's not going to benefit people. I

00:17:48.720 --> 00:17:53.839
mean, a good example of that is like

00:17:50.960 --> 00:17:56.160
where let's let's look at the LA fire

00:17:53.839 --> 00:17:58.720
thing for instance. All right. So the LA

00:17:56.160 --> 00:18:02.000
fire fund, there's a giant fire in the

00:17:58.720 --> 00:18:05.839
Palisades. All this money gets raised.

00:18:02.000 --> 00:18:09.440
It's over $800 million. It goes to 200

00:18:05.839 --> 00:18:10.240
plus different nonprofits. None of it

00:18:09.440 --> 00:18:10.798
goes to the people,

00:18:10.240 --> 00:18:12.319
>> right?

00:18:10.798 --> 00:18:13.279
>> Spencer Pratt, who's running for mayor

00:18:12.319 --> 00:18:14.720
of Los Angeles.

00:18:13.279 --> 00:18:16.079
>> He's doing a great job, by the way.

00:18:14.720 --> 00:18:19.600
>> [ __ ] phenomenal.

00:18:16.079 --> 00:18:20.319
>> Those ads are those ads are fire.

00:18:19.599 --> 00:18:22.000
>> They're so good.

00:18:20.319 --> 00:18:23.759
>> They're fire. I He's doing and he's

00:18:22.000 --> 00:18:25.759
doing it all out of a trailer. Yeah.

00:18:23.759 --> 00:18:27.440
>> On his burnt out land. I mean, he's the

00:18:25.759 --> 00:18:28.558
most righteous guy running in that

00:18:27.440 --> 00:18:32.000
regard.

00:18:28.558 --> 00:18:34.079
>> But just that being exposed like, okay,

00:18:32.000 --> 00:18:35.919
we're going to help out these people.

00:18:34.079 --> 00:18:37.839
We're going to donate money. We're going

00:18:35.919 --> 00:18:39.520
to raise money. We're going to do some

00:18:37.839 --> 00:18:41.038
good. We feel terrible about the people

00:18:39.519 --> 00:18:43.200
in our community that have lost homes.

00:18:41.038 --> 00:18:44.879
Well, what happens? Well, the same

00:18:43.200 --> 00:18:48.558
people that you're saying we should give

00:18:44.880 --> 00:18:50.720
more taxes to take that money and they

00:18:48.558 --> 00:18:52.480
just give it to a bunch of nonprofits

00:18:50.720 --> 00:18:54.558
and charities. This episode is brought

00:18:52.480 --> 00:18:56.640
to you by Arra. Every week there's some

00:18:54.558 --> 00:18:59.359
new wellness hack that people swear by

00:18:56.640 --> 00:19:01.679
and after a while you start thinking,

00:18:59.359 --> 00:19:04.959
why do we think we can just outsmart our

00:19:01.679 --> 00:19:06.960
bodies? That's why Arra colostrum caught

00:19:04.960 --> 00:19:09.519
my attention. It's something the body

00:19:06.960 --> 00:19:11.919
already recognizes and has hundreds of

00:19:09.519 --> 00:19:15.038
these specialized nutrients for gut

00:19:11.919 --> 00:19:16.640
stuff, immunity, metabolism, etc. I

00:19:15.038 --> 00:19:19.200
first noticed it working around

00:19:16.640 --> 00:19:20.960
training, especially workout recovery.

00:19:19.200 --> 00:19:23.200
Most stuff falls off, but I am still

00:19:20.960 --> 00:19:26.079
taking this. If you want to try, Arra is

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offering my listeners 30% off plus two

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free gifts. Go to armorra.com/roganogen.

00:19:30.319 --> 00:19:32.558
>> I'm not saying give more tax. What I'm

00:19:31.839 --> 00:19:33.038
saying is,

00:19:32.558 --> 00:19:34.720
>> right,

00:19:33.038 --> 00:19:36.319
>> people are taxed too much. Yes,

00:19:34.720 --> 00:19:37.120
>> corporates are not taxed enough. Flip

00:19:36.319 --> 00:19:39.279
it. That's

00:19:37.119 --> 00:19:42.000
>> right. But even if you do flip it and

00:19:39.279 --> 00:19:44.079
the corporates are taxed more, where's

00:19:42.000 --> 00:19:46.798
that money going? This is the problem.

00:19:44.079 --> 00:19:49.599
>> I suspect that if you put the burden on

00:19:46.798 --> 00:19:52.160
Wall Street and corporates,

00:19:49.599 --> 00:19:53.599
um, they'd be a lot more organized and

00:19:52.160 --> 00:19:57.600
they'd probably create a lot more change

00:19:53.599 --> 00:19:58.959
than a diffuse electorate. Meaning like

00:19:57.599 --> 00:20:01.119
let's just say the government spends a

00:19:58.960 --> 00:20:02.640
trillion dollars and wastes it. I'm

00:20:01.119 --> 00:20:04.000
generally like roughly aligned with

00:20:02.640 --> 00:20:07.360
that.

00:20:04.000 --> 00:20:10.240
If you waste a trillion dollars from 300

00:20:07.359 --> 00:20:12.639
million people, it's hard to organize at

00:20:10.240 --> 00:20:15.120
300 million people. But if you waste a

00:20:12.640 --> 00:20:16.480
trillion dollars from 300 companies,

00:20:15.119 --> 00:20:18.239
those companies will get their [ __ ]

00:20:16.480 --> 00:20:19.679
together really fast. And they will

00:20:18.240 --> 00:20:20.960
force a lot more change.

00:20:19.679 --> 00:20:22.880
>> I would hope so, but you're still

00:20:20.960 --> 00:20:25.279
dealing with incompetent people that are

00:20:22.880 --> 00:20:26.320
tasked with taking care of that money.

00:20:25.279 --> 00:20:27.279
Not just incompetent, but

00:20:26.319 --> 00:20:28.000
>> don't get me wrong, I'm not defending

00:20:27.279 --> 00:20:31.440
these people.

00:20:28.000 --> 00:20:34.000
>> Decades of corruption. decades and

00:20:31.440 --> 00:20:36.640
decades of all these mechanisms where

00:20:34.000 --> 00:20:40.798
they can take this money and funnel it

00:20:36.640 --> 00:20:43.520
into these NOS and these nonprofits and

00:20:40.798 --> 00:20:45.119
all these different weird organizations

00:20:43.519 --> 00:20:47.359
that don't seem to have accountability

00:20:45.119 --> 00:20:48.959
for what they do with that money, that

00:20:47.359 --> 00:20:52.399
gets real slippery.

00:20:48.960 --> 00:20:54.558
>> Yeah. And if those people in turn make

00:20:52.400 --> 00:20:56.640
deals with those corporations that allow

00:20:54.558 --> 00:20:58.158
them to do certain things and push

00:20:56.640 --> 00:21:00.400
things through that maybe they would

00:20:58.159 --> 00:21:01.840
have difficulty doing, then you have a

00:21:00.400 --> 00:21:04.240
different kind of a working relationship

00:21:01.839 --> 00:21:07.038
with the same groups of people and the

00:21:04.240 --> 00:21:09.519
same government. You just take money

00:21:07.038 --> 00:21:11.359
from corporations and move it into a way

00:21:09.519 --> 00:21:13.119
where the corporations ultimately

00:21:11.359 --> 00:21:14.319
benefit from it, but yet it doesn't do

00:21:13.119 --> 00:21:15.918
any good to the people.

00:21:14.319 --> 00:21:17.839
>> Yeah. I mean, I can see where you're

00:21:15.919 --> 00:21:21.200
coming from. I just think that if we go

00:21:17.839 --> 00:21:23.759
on the track we're going down,

00:21:21.200 --> 00:21:24.880
>> it just seems like we're we're going to

00:21:23.759 --> 00:21:25.279
hit a crisis.

00:21:24.880 --> 00:21:27.360
>> Yes,

00:21:25.279 --> 00:21:29.200
>> the crisis is you can't expect people to

00:21:27.359 --> 00:21:31.119
pay more and more and more. Again, I

00:21:29.200 --> 00:21:33.200
agree with you. The premise is we're all

00:21:31.119 --> 00:21:36.399
paying for a system that's broken.

00:21:33.200 --> 00:21:37.919
>> That should that should change. But we

00:21:36.400 --> 00:21:39.919
still continue to have to pay our taxes.

00:21:37.919 --> 00:21:42.720
But if taxes keep going up like this at

00:21:39.919 --> 00:21:44.559
the individual level

00:21:42.720 --> 00:21:46.079
and we don't manage this transition to

00:21:44.558 --> 00:21:47.759
something where we may be working less

00:21:46.079 --> 00:21:49.519
and less, what are we getting paid to

00:21:47.759 --> 00:21:51.599
do? And then at that point, how are we

00:21:49.519 --> 00:21:52.000
expected to pay what? 90% of what?

00:21:51.599 --> 00:21:55.519
>> Right?

00:21:52.000 --> 00:21:59.119
>> 50% of what? I think people do have this

00:21:55.519 --> 00:22:02.798
weird feeling of

00:21:59.119 --> 00:22:06.079
dread that the people that are in

00:22:02.798 --> 00:22:07.599
control of a lot in this country, the

00:22:06.079 --> 00:22:09.359
the tech companies in particular,

00:22:07.599 --> 00:22:11.759
particularly the tech companies like

00:22:09.359 --> 00:22:14.240
Google and Facebook that are essentially

00:22:11.759 --> 00:22:16.720
involved in data collection and then

00:22:14.240 --> 00:22:19.599
ultimately dissemination of information

00:22:16.720 --> 00:22:21.839
that they have acquired enormous amounts

00:22:19.599 --> 00:22:24.558
of wealth and power and influence and

00:22:21.839 --> 00:22:25.439
they're essentially a new form of the

00:22:24.558 --> 00:22:26.079
government.

00:22:25.440 --> 00:22:27.440
>> Yeah.

00:22:26.079 --> 00:22:30.079
>> You know, are you aware of Robert

00:22:27.440 --> 00:22:31.120
Epstein? Do you know about his work?

00:22:30.079 --> 00:22:33.519
>> Not Robert Epste.

00:22:31.119 --> 00:22:36.639
>> No, different guy. Different guy. Um,

00:22:33.519 --> 00:22:40.480
Robert Epstein is a guy who specializes

00:22:36.640 --> 00:22:44.480
in uh understanding what curated search

00:22:40.480 --> 00:22:47.440
results do and what what Google's able

00:22:44.480 --> 00:22:49.919
to do with in particular with curated

00:22:47.440 --> 00:22:51.120
search results in terms of influencing

00:22:49.919 --> 00:22:53.200
elections

00:22:51.119 --> 00:22:54.479
>> that like say if you you have two

00:22:53.200 --> 00:22:57.919
candidates that are running. Let's just

00:22:54.480 --> 00:22:59.839
say let's just take LA for instance. If

00:22:57.919 --> 00:23:02.880
and I'm not making any accusations, but

00:22:59.839 --> 00:23:05.439
I'm saying if they wanted Karen Bass to

00:23:02.880 --> 00:23:07.840
win and you searched Karen Bass, you

00:23:05.440 --> 00:23:10.320
would find all these positive results.

00:23:07.839 --> 00:23:12.879
If you searched Spencer Pratt, you would

00:23:10.319 --> 00:23:14.319
find all these negative results. And

00:23:12.880 --> 00:23:17.200
there's a bunch of people that are

00:23:14.319 --> 00:23:18.240
always undecided voters and those are

00:23:17.200 --> 00:23:20.240
the ones that you really want. They're

00:23:18.240 --> 00:23:21.440
like, I don't know. I don't know. And

00:23:20.240 --> 00:23:22.640
come election night, those are the

00:23:21.440 --> 00:23:25.440
people you want to try to grab and it's

00:23:22.640 --> 00:23:27.440
it's generally a large percentage. You

00:23:25.440 --> 00:23:29.120
can influence an enormous percentage of

00:23:27.440 --> 00:23:29.519
those people just with search results.

00:23:29.119 --> 00:23:31.519
>> Yeah.

00:23:29.519 --> 00:23:32.079
>> Where you can shift an election one way

00:23:31.519 --> 00:23:32.798
or another.

00:23:32.079 --> 00:23:35.119
>> I believe it.

00:23:32.798 --> 00:23:38.558
>> Yeah. And he's demonstrated this and

00:23:35.119 --> 00:23:41.359
shown how this is possible. Um that

00:23:38.558 --> 00:23:44.240
freaks people out that tech companies

00:23:41.359 --> 00:23:47.199
are in control of narratives that tech

00:23:44.240 --> 00:23:48.960
companies can censor information

00:23:47.200 --> 00:23:50.319
especially tech companies that work in

00:23:48.960 --> 00:23:50.960
conjunction with the government.

00:23:50.319 --> 00:23:52.639
>> Right?

00:23:50.960 --> 00:23:54.240
>> This is what we found out when Elon

00:23:52.640 --> 00:23:56.640
purchased Twitter. Right? Right. When

00:23:54.240 --> 00:23:58.640
Elon purchased Twitter, we got all this

00:23:56.640 --> 00:23:59.919
information from the Twitter files when

00:23:58.640 --> 00:24:01.360
all the journalists were allowed to go

00:23:59.919 --> 00:24:04.159
through it and they said, "Oh, this is

00:24:01.359 --> 00:24:05.918
crazy. You've got the FBI, the CIA,

00:24:04.159 --> 00:24:08.240
you've got all these companies, all

00:24:05.919 --> 00:24:10.080
these government organizations that are

00:24:08.240 --> 00:24:12.400
essentially

00:24:10.079 --> 00:24:14.399
controlling the narrative of free speech

00:24:12.400 --> 00:24:16.000
in the country. And they're doing it in

00:24:14.400 --> 00:24:17.840
a way that benefits them. They're doing

00:24:16.000 --> 00:24:19.440
it in a way that benefits what political

00:24:17.839 --> 00:24:22.000
parties in charge at the time was the

00:24:19.440 --> 00:24:24.240
Biden administration. and they were

00:24:22.000 --> 00:24:26.240
allowed to do a bunch of weird [ __ ]

00:24:24.240 --> 00:24:28.000
which which should be illegal but it's

00:24:26.240 --> 00:24:29.599
not technically illegal.

00:24:28.000 --> 00:24:32.798
>> And that freaks people out because

00:24:29.599 --> 00:24:34.480
there's no real laws and rules in regard

00:24:32.798 --> 00:24:36.158
to what they're allowed to do and what

00:24:34.480 --> 00:24:38.079
they're not allowed to do. Like curated

00:24:36.159 --> 00:24:39.120
search results should be illegal.

00:24:38.079 --> 00:24:41.599
>> They're shaping attention.

00:24:39.119 --> 00:24:42.158
>> Yes. Attention. Again, it goes back to

00:24:41.599 --> 00:24:43.599
attention, right?

00:24:42.159 --> 00:24:47.679
>> They're shaping attention.

00:24:43.599 --> 00:24:49.839
>> Yeah. Um it's that's a big concern for

00:24:47.679 --> 00:24:52.080
people. And I think then when you find

00:24:49.839 --> 00:24:53.678
out that these people are able to amass

00:24:52.079 --> 00:24:55.359
enormous sums of wealth and have

00:24:53.679 --> 00:24:58.320
incredible amount of power and influence

00:24:55.359 --> 00:25:01.678
because of this enormous enormous wealth

00:24:58.319 --> 00:25:03.519
and this control over these tech

00:25:01.679 --> 00:25:05.360
companies that have essentially become

00:25:03.519 --> 00:25:06.079
the town square of the world.

00:25:05.359 --> 00:25:08.879
>> Yeah.

00:25:06.079 --> 00:25:10.720
>> That freaks people out and that these

00:25:08.880 --> 00:25:12.559
very small number of people, you know,

00:25:10.720 --> 00:25:14.240
you think of Zuckerberg, you think of

00:25:12.558 --> 00:25:16.319
Tim Cook and I don't I don't know who

00:25:14.240 --> 00:25:17.200
the new guy is now. Who's the name? John

00:25:16.319 --> 00:25:17.678
John Fern,

00:25:17.200 --> 00:25:18.558
>> right?

00:25:17.679 --> 00:25:19.278
>> Furnace. No,

00:25:18.558 --> 00:25:19.519
>> I forget his name.

00:25:19.278 --> 00:25:20.240
>> Yeah.

00:25:19.519 --> 00:25:21.599
>> Turn.

00:25:20.240 --> 00:25:25.359
>> Turn. Turn.

00:25:21.599 --> 00:25:28.158
>> But but that kind of thing

00:25:25.359 --> 00:25:29.839
gives people a lot of concern, right?

00:25:28.159 --> 00:25:33.039
It's like that these people, these

00:25:29.839 --> 00:25:35.519
unelected people are in control of a a

00:25:33.038 --> 00:25:38.240
giant chunk of

00:25:35.519 --> 00:25:40.400
how the world works.

00:25:38.240 --> 00:25:42.720
>> I think that this is the existential

00:25:40.400 --> 00:25:44.400
question that we are dealing with.

00:25:42.720 --> 00:25:46.319
you're going to have five or six

00:25:44.400 --> 00:25:49.919
companies

00:25:46.319 --> 00:25:51.839
concentrate like whatever power you

00:25:49.919 --> 00:25:53.840
think has been concentrated up until

00:25:51.839 --> 00:25:55.199
now. I think we're going to look back

00:25:53.839 --> 00:25:58.240
and it's going to look like a Sunday

00:25:55.200 --> 00:26:00.319
picnic 10 or 15 years from now because

00:25:58.240 --> 00:26:02.558
on the one hand it's going to be an even

00:26:00.319 --> 00:26:04.000
smaller subset and on the other hand the

00:26:02.558 --> 00:26:06.480
capability is going to be an order or

00:26:04.000 --> 00:26:07.919
two orders of magnitude. So can you

00:26:06.480 --> 00:26:09.440
imagine what that must be like? It's

00:26:07.919 --> 00:26:12.159
kind of like showing up, getting dropped

00:26:09.440 --> 00:26:13.759
into the 1800s, and you've invented the

00:26:12.159 --> 00:26:14.960
engine and everybody else's horse and

00:26:13.759 --> 00:26:18.480
buggy.

00:26:14.960 --> 00:26:20.319
>> You can just decide to your point. That

00:26:18.480 --> 00:26:22.798
is where we're going.

00:26:20.319 --> 00:26:24.480
>> It's even more crazy. It's like

00:26:22.798 --> 00:26:25.918
everybody else is on a horse and buggy

00:26:24.480 --> 00:26:27.200
and you've got an internet connection

00:26:25.919 --> 00:26:28.000
with a cell phone.

00:26:27.200 --> 00:26:29.200
>> Exactly. Exactly.

00:26:28.000 --> 00:26:32.240
>> It's even more crazy.

00:26:29.200 --> 00:26:35.519
>> Exactly. because it's what we're dealing

00:26:32.240 --> 00:26:37.200
with with AI right now is first of all

00:26:35.519 --> 00:26:40.158
it's already lowered children's

00:26:37.200 --> 00:26:43.679
attention spans and it's shrinking their

00:26:40.159 --> 00:26:45.760
capacity to acquire or absorb

00:26:43.679 --> 00:26:48.240
information because what they're doing

00:26:45.759 --> 00:26:50.000
now is just relying on AI to answer all

00:26:48.240 --> 00:26:52.079
their questions for them. Now, is that

00:26:50.000 --> 00:26:53.519
their fault? Kind of, right? Because it

00:26:52.079 --> 00:26:55.359
doesn't have to be that way. You could

00:26:53.519 --> 00:26:57.038
still acquire information the

00:26:55.359 --> 00:26:58.879
oldfashioned way. You can still learn

00:26:57.038 --> 00:27:00.400
things the right way. But a lot of kids

00:26:58.880 --> 00:27:01.840
are just concerned with passing

00:27:00.400 --> 00:27:03.120
examinations and getting into good

00:27:01.839 --> 00:27:05.759
schools. And what they're doing is just

00:27:03.119 --> 00:27:07.839
using AI and they're they're getting

00:27:05.759 --> 00:27:08.798
better test results, but they're also

00:27:07.839 --> 00:27:09.119
not as smart.

00:27:08.798 --> 00:27:10.720
>> Yeah.

00:27:09.119 --> 00:27:14.798
>> Which is really weird. Yeah.

00:27:10.720 --> 00:27:19.600
>> It's like we're relying on it like we

00:27:14.798 --> 00:27:23.918
you know it's like it's essentially like

00:27:19.599 --> 00:27:26.480
replacing our mind. And that's just the

00:27:23.919 --> 00:27:28.559
this is the beginning. This is like

00:27:26.480 --> 00:27:31.759
these are the toddler days

00:27:28.558 --> 00:27:33.359
>> of AI and where it's going to be a super

00:27:31.759 --> 00:27:36.798
athlete in a few years.

00:27:33.359 --> 00:27:38.719
>> Yeah. I think we have to figure out how

00:27:36.798 --> 00:27:40.480
first of all

00:27:38.720 --> 00:27:42.079
kids need to learn and I think this is

00:27:40.480 --> 00:27:43.440
where like we have to do a better job as

00:27:42.079 --> 00:27:45.359
parents. Kids need to learn how to be

00:27:43.440 --> 00:27:46.798
resilient thinkers. I don't even know

00:27:45.359 --> 00:27:48.479
what that term meant before, but I know

00:27:46.798 --> 00:27:50.558
what it means now, which is like you

00:27:48.480 --> 00:27:52.558
take this AI slop and you just kind of

00:27:50.558 --> 00:27:54.158
like pass it off. And if like the

00:27:52.558 --> 00:27:56.319
teachers and the school system aren't

00:27:54.159 --> 00:27:58.799
trained, they're just like, "Wow, this

00:27:56.319 --> 00:28:00.558
looks good." They have to be able to

00:27:58.798 --> 00:28:02.000
push back. Parents need to be able to

00:28:00.558 --> 00:28:03.278
look at this [ __ ] But then all of this

00:28:02.000 --> 00:28:04.960
stuff, I'm just like so frustrated

00:28:03.278 --> 00:28:06.240
because it's like one more thing that I

00:28:04.960 --> 00:28:06.640
have to do as a parent. Like,

00:28:06.240 --> 00:28:08.240
>> right?

00:28:06.640 --> 00:28:09.520
>> Every time technology gets better, it's

00:28:08.240 --> 00:28:10.159
one more thing, you know,

00:28:09.519 --> 00:28:11.599
>> right?

00:28:10.159 --> 00:28:13.600
>> We're going to make the world, you know,

00:28:11.599 --> 00:28:15.199
super connected and social and all that

00:28:13.599 --> 00:28:16.398
stuff. It sounds great to me until I

00:28:15.200 --> 00:28:18.720
have to be the one that has to tell my

00:28:16.398 --> 00:28:20.239
kid I can't they can't get Instagram

00:28:18.720 --> 00:28:22.399
>> and then they're up my ass every day,

00:28:20.240 --> 00:28:23.839
right? you know, and it's just like I

00:28:22.398 --> 00:28:24.398
don't want to have to deal with this

00:28:23.839 --> 00:28:24.798
stuff,

00:28:24.398 --> 00:28:27.038
>> right?

00:28:24.798 --> 00:28:29.679
>> I want this to be handled in a way that

00:28:27.038 --> 00:28:31.278
just allows me to do what I want to do.

00:28:29.679 --> 00:28:32.798
I don't want to say no to my kid. I

00:28:31.278 --> 00:28:35.038
don't want to police his schoolwork and

00:28:32.798 --> 00:28:36.319
make sure he's not cheating or not

00:28:35.038 --> 00:28:40.960
learning and just like, you know,

00:28:36.319 --> 00:28:43.038
passing off this AI slop. What am I

00:28:40.960 --> 00:28:45.278
where are my tax dollars going? Where is

00:28:43.038 --> 00:28:47.679
everybody else in all of this? It gets

00:28:45.278 --> 00:28:49.440
very frustrating. And again, it goes

00:28:47.679 --> 00:28:51.360
back to like this feeling of like, well,

00:28:49.440 --> 00:28:53.759
is this all getting better for me or is

00:28:51.359 --> 00:28:55.359
this kind of like not, you know, people

00:28:53.759 --> 00:28:56.879
start to be nostalgic

00:28:55.359 --> 00:28:59.199
>> for what it used to be because it was

00:28:56.880 --> 00:29:00.640
just simpler, but I think that's a

00:28:59.200 --> 00:29:03.440
different way of saying easier.

00:29:00.640 --> 00:29:06.240
>> Well, we're just dealing with we're at

00:29:03.440 --> 00:29:09.600
the edge of great change. Like great

00:29:06.240 --> 00:29:10.798
change that has no real understanding of

00:29:09.599 --> 00:29:11.359
how it turns out.

00:29:10.798 --> 00:29:14.240
>> Yeah.

00:29:11.359 --> 00:29:16.558
>> And I think that understandably freaks

00:29:14.240 --> 00:29:18.000
people out. Freaks me out. It freaks me

00:29:16.558 --> 00:29:19.359
out, but I've kind of gotten to this

00:29:18.000 --> 00:29:20.000
place where I'm like, well, it's going

00:29:19.359 --> 00:29:22.639
to happen.

00:29:20.000 --> 00:29:24.960
>> Did you see this thing? Um, it's a CEO

00:29:22.640 --> 00:29:28.559
of Verizon, Dan Schulman. He put out

00:29:24.960 --> 00:29:30.480
this very public forecast, you know,

00:29:28.558 --> 00:29:32.319
very smart guy, well regarded in

00:29:30.480 --> 00:29:34.319
business. And I think he said something

00:29:32.319 --> 00:29:36.639
like 30%

00:29:34.319 --> 00:29:38.079
of all white collar jobs will be gone by

00:29:36.640 --> 00:29:39.200
2030. I don't know, Jamie, maybe you can

00:29:38.079 --> 00:29:39.678
get the exact thing, but it's something

00:29:39.200 --> 00:29:41.679
like that.

00:29:39.679 --> 00:29:43.840
>> That's probably optimistic. And I

00:29:41.679 --> 00:29:46.000
thought at first my initial reaction was

00:29:43.839 --> 00:29:47.519
like this is totally not credible. But

00:29:46.000 --> 00:29:48.960
then I'm like hold on a second that's my

00:29:47.519 --> 00:29:50.798
bias because I want to believe that

00:29:48.960 --> 00:29:52.558
that's not possible

00:29:50.798 --> 00:29:54.398
>> honestly you know and as I've gotten

00:29:52.558 --> 00:29:55.759
older I'm I'm a little bit better now

00:29:54.398 --> 00:29:57.038
like okay hold on a second let's weigh

00:29:55.759 --> 00:30:00.480
the probabilities. And now I was like

00:29:57.038 --> 00:30:04.960
man if I'm going to be fair maybe

00:30:00.480 --> 00:30:06.399
there's a 10 20% chance of that. There's

00:30:04.960 --> 00:30:08.480
a bunch of other outcomes that are much

00:30:06.398 --> 00:30:09.759
better than that but that's part of the

00:30:08.480 --> 00:30:11.278
set of outcomes that you have to

00:30:09.759 --> 00:30:13.038
consider.

00:30:11.278 --> 00:30:15.038
And then I was like, well, what's my

00:30:13.038 --> 00:30:16.558
antidote to that? My and and the only

00:30:15.038 --> 00:30:19.119
thing that I can say is don't worry,

00:30:16.558 --> 00:30:20.798
it's going to be better.

00:30:19.119 --> 00:30:21.199
I don't think that that's a good answer.

00:30:20.798 --> 00:30:23.440
>> No.

00:30:21.200 --> 00:30:27.600
>> So, there has to be like all of this

00:30:23.440 --> 00:30:29.759
kind of goes back to look, my wife and I

00:30:27.599 --> 00:30:32.079
have this conversation. We're like, if

00:30:29.759 --> 00:30:35.519
it were up to us, who's who can you

00:30:32.079 --> 00:30:37.278
trust to have some super intelligence?

00:30:35.519 --> 00:30:38.639
Now, we're biased because we're friends

00:30:37.278 --> 00:30:41.519
with him, but the only person that we

00:30:38.640 --> 00:30:43.840
can trust is Elon because he seems to be

00:30:41.519 --> 00:30:45.440
like he has a bigger like it's kind of

00:30:43.839 --> 00:30:46.879
like he's like over there. He's like, I

00:30:45.440 --> 00:30:47.919
need to get to Mars, right?

00:30:46.880 --> 00:30:49.520
>> You know, and I'm going to first

00:30:47.919 --> 00:30:51.360
terraform the moon, but then I'm going

00:30:49.519 --> 00:30:53.519
to Mars and I'm going to build like a

00:30:51.359 --> 00:30:56.000
[ __ ] magnetic catapult and I got to

00:30:53.519 --> 00:30:58.158
do all this [ __ ] and so I just need this

00:30:56.000 --> 00:31:01.159
thing. I feel like he's the least

00:30:58.159 --> 00:31:01.159
corruptible.

00:31:01.440 --> 00:31:05.200
He's the most independent thinking

00:31:03.679 --> 00:31:07.919
>> and I think he's the one that has a

00:31:05.200 --> 00:31:10.240
natural empathy for people. Then there

00:31:07.919 --> 00:31:11.520
are folks where there's just a in insane

00:31:10.240 --> 00:31:11.839
profit motive,

00:31:11.519 --> 00:31:13.200
>> right?

00:31:11.839 --> 00:31:15.278
>> They're less in control of the

00:31:13.200 --> 00:31:17.519
businesses that they run. Those

00:31:15.278 --> 00:31:18.880
businesses are really out over their ski

00:31:17.519 --> 00:31:21.038
tips and the amount of money they've

00:31:18.880 --> 00:31:22.799
gotten from Wall Street and other folks

00:31:21.038 --> 00:31:25.359
who expect a return who will put a ton

00:31:22.798 --> 00:31:27.599
of pressure on these folks. And if they

00:31:25.359 --> 00:31:29.678
get there first, I don't know where the

00:31:27.599 --> 00:31:31.278
chips fall. We don't really know. We can

00:31:29.679 --> 00:31:33.038
kind of guess. And then you see in the

00:31:31.278 --> 00:31:35.278
press

00:31:33.038 --> 00:31:36.720
just enough snippets of their reactions

00:31:35.278 --> 00:31:38.240
in certain moments where you're like,

00:31:36.720 --> 00:31:40.558
"Hey, hold on a second. Question mark

00:31:38.240 --> 00:31:42.399
here." You know, you see OpenAI react

00:31:40.558 --> 00:31:44.720
one way, you see Anthropic react another

00:31:42.398 --> 00:31:46.319
way, and you're like, "Where is this

00:31:44.720 --> 00:31:48.798
going to end up?" And the honest answer

00:31:46.319 --> 00:31:51.359
is nobody really knows.

00:31:48.798 --> 00:31:53.440
So, it comes back to like we need a few

00:31:51.359 --> 00:31:55.439
people that can organize. Those guys

00:31:53.440 --> 00:31:57.919
need to self-organize and actually

00:31:55.440 --> 00:31:59.759
present a really positive face. And they

00:31:57.919 --> 00:32:02.399
need to show

00:31:59.759 --> 00:32:05.119
why those 20% of outcomes that Dan

00:32:02.398 --> 00:32:07.038
Schulman paints,

00:32:05.119 --> 00:32:09.278
the truth is it's possible, but here's

00:32:07.038 --> 00:32:11.119
why it's pro not probable,

00:32:09.278 --> 00:32:12.558
>> but it's not in their best interest to

00:32:11.119 --> 00:32:14.079
do that because it's in their best

00:32:12.558 --> 00:32:15.759
interest to generate the most amount of

00:32:14.079 --> 00:32:17.439
money possible. That's the obligation

00:32:15.759 --> 00:32:18.879
they have to their shareholders. That's

00:32:17.440 --> 00:32:20.240
the obligation to they have the people

00:32:18.880 --> 00:32:23.200
that have invested money in this

00:32:20.240 --> 00:32:25.519
company. They their obligation is not to

00:32:23.200 --> 00:32:27.120
make sure the white collar jobs stay in

00:32:25.519 --> 00:32:28.319
the same place that there are now.

00:32:27.119 --> 00:32:28.639
>> That's not that's not true.

00:32:28.319 --> 00:32:31.278
>> No.

00:32:28.640 --> 00:32:34.720
>> No. I I actually think their incentive

00:32:31.278 --> 00:32:37.119
should very clearly be to tell people

00:32:34.720 --> 00:32:39.600
with details and facts why there's a

00:32:37.119 --> 00:32:41.599
positive future. And the reason is the

00:32:39.599 --> 00:32:43.599
following. Right now there's a vacuum.

00:32:41.599 --> 00:32:45.278
There are no facts. And there's

00:32:43.599 --> 00:32:46.558
fear-mongering. And then there's this

00:32:45.278 --> 00:32:49.200
belief that this is going to be

00:32:46.558 --> 00:32:51.519
cataclysmic to human productivity and

00:32:49.200 --> 00:32:53.440
white color labor and all of this stuff.

00:32:51.519 --> 00:32:55.839
>> What's people's natural reaction? Well,

00:32:53.440 --> 00:32:57.600
today if you look at it,

00:32:55.839 --> 00:33:01.119
>> think about AI as a very simple

00:32:57.599 --> 00:33:02.398
equation. Energy in, intelligence out.

00:33:01.119 --> 00:33:03.839
>> So if you want to cut the head of the

00:33:02.398 --> 00:33:05.278
snake, what do you do? You cut off the

00:33:03.839 --> 00:33:05.678
energy supply.

00:33:05.278 --> 00:33:06.079
>> Right?

00:33:05.679 --> 00:33:07.360
>> Okay.

00:33:06.079 --> 00:33:09.038
>> If you're afraid

00:33:07.359 --> 00:33:09.918
>> of all of this super intelligence

00:33:09.038 --> 00:33:11.519
coming,

00:33:09.919 --> 00:33:13.679
>> the natural thing to do would be to go

00:33:11.519 --> 00:33:15.359
to the point of energy and unplug it.

00:33:13.679 --> 00:33:16.960
What is the equivalent of unplugging it

00:33:15.359 --> 00:33:20.719
today? It is to go all around the

00:33:16.960 --> 00:33:23.919
country, find the data centers, protest

00:33:20.720 --> 00:33:25.600
them, and get them to be mothballled.

00:33:23.919 --> 00:33:27.840
That is an incredibly successful

00:33:25.599 --> 00:33:31.119
strategy right now.

00:33:27.839 --> 00:33:34.319
Today, about 40%

00:33:31.119 --> 00:33:38.000
of all of these data centers

00:33:34.319 --> 00:33:40.079
that get protested get mothballled.

00:33:38.000 --> 00:33:40.480
>> You're talking about emerging data

00:33:40.079 --> 00:33:41.519
centers.

00:33:40.480 --> 00:33:43.759
>> Yeah. just like

00:33:41.519 --> 00:33:44.880
>> I need to. So if you're one of these

00:33:43.759 --> 00:33:46.720
companies, the first thing you should

00:33:44.880 --> 00:33:50.159
realize is I need to paint a positive

00:33:46.720 --> 00:33:53.120
vision because 40% of my energy is

00:33:50.159 --> 00:33:55.200
getting unplugged every day.

00:33:53.119 --> 00:33:56.959
And if that happens, my revenues will

00:33:55.200 --> 00:33:59.278
crater and my investors will be super

00:33:56.960 --> 00:34:02.640
pissed. So the right strategy is what is

00:33:59.278 --> 00:34:06.240
the positive fact-based argument? And

00:34:02.640 --> 00:34:08.159
there are some incredible examples

00:34:06.240 --> 00:34:10.639
number one. And then number two is you

00:34:08.159 --> 00:34:14.240
have to give people some tactical

00:34:10.639 --> 00:34:16.240
benefit that they see because AI

00:34:14.239 --> 00:34:18.559
differently than

00:34:16.239 --> 00:34:21.439
search or differently than social media

00:34:18.559 --> 00:34:23.199
there's no exchange of value. Let me let

00:34:21.440 --> 00:34:27.760
me explain what that means. So let me

00:34:23.199 --> 00:34:31.118
just go like so the first thing is that

00:34:27.760 --> 00:34:34.000
if you can go and actually show people

00:34:31.119 --> 00:34:35.119
here's an example of AI. I I I heard

00:34:34.000 --> 00:34:36.639
about this last night. It's pretty

00:34:35.119 --> 00:34:38.639
incredible.

00:34:36.639 --> 00:34:42.960
You can now take pictures of a woman's

00:34:38.639 --> 00:34:45.280
fallopian tubes and you can see

00:34:42.960 --> 00:34:46.878
precancer

00:34:45.280 --> 00:34:50.240
ovarian cysts and all of this stuff

00:34:46.878 --> 00:34:53.039
cervical cancer before it forms and then

00:34:50.239 --> 00:34:54.719
you can intervene and you can fix it so

00:34:53.039 --> 00:34:57.358
that you know women don't get cervical

00:34:54.719 --> 00:34:58.959
cancer. In a different example I

00:34:57.358 --> 00:35:01.519
actually I told you about this example

00:34:58.960 --> 00:35:03.760
when I was here before I finally got FDA

00:35:01.519 --> 00:35:05.679
approval. Okay, there is a device now

00:35:03.760 --> 00:35:08.240
that is allowed to be in the operating

00:35:05.679 --> 00:35:11.279
room with you. And if you have a

00:35:08.239 --> 00:35:12.959
cancerous lesion or a tumor inside of

00:35:11.280 --> 00:35:15.440
your body, the most important thing when

00:35:12.960 --> 00:35:17.838
they go to take it out is make sure you

00:35:15.440 --> 00:35:19.039
don't leave any cancer behind. You

00:35:17.838 --> 00:35:22.320
couldn't do it because what would happen

00:35:19.039 --> 00:35:24.079
is you take it out. A doctor is Joe is

00:35:22.320 --> 00:35:26.320
literally [ __ ] eyeballing it and

00:35:24.079 --> 00:35:28.800
saying, "Yeah, they send it to a

00:35:26.320 --> 00:35:31.680
pathologist. You get an answer in 10

00:35:28.800 --> 00:35:33.440
days." for women with breast cancer. A

00:35:31.679 --> 00:35:35.679
third of these women find out that they

00:35:33.440 --> 00:35:37.599
have cancer left behind. They go back

00:35:35.679 --> 00:35:40.239
in, they scoop some more stuff out. A

00:35:37.599 --> 00:35:41.838
third of those women. Okay. So, I'm

00:35:40.239 --> 00:35:45.358
like, "This is [ __ ] We can solve

00:35:41.838 --> 00:35:47.519
this problem." It took us a long time, a

00:35:45.358 --> 00:35:50.960
lot of money. I had to build an entire

00:35:47.519 --> 00:35:52.960
machine imaging, all of this stuff, AI

00:35:50.960 --> 00:35:55.358
algorithms. We had to prove it all. We

00:35:52.960 --> 00:35:57.519
finally get approval. Okay. But you know

00:35:55.358 --> 00:35:59.358
how hard it is to tell that story in all

00:35:57.519 --> 00:36:02.880
of the attention that people are looking

00:35:59.358 --> 00:36:06.000
for. It's hard. But those are positive

00:36:02.880 --> 00:36:08.720
examples. No more breast cancer,

00:36:06.000 --> 00:36:12.320
no more cervical cancer. A different

00:36:08.719 --> 00:36:13.838
example is most drugs in pharma fail,

00:36:12.320 --> 00:36:16.000
right?

00:36:13.838 --> 00:36:17.759
And it's a very complicated problem in

00:36:16.000 --> 00:36:19.679
pharma. It's kind of like a jigsaw

00:36:17.760 --> 00:36:22.320
puzzle of the ultimate complexity. It's

00:36:19.679 --> 00:36:25.039
like think of your human body as like a

00:36:22.320 --> 00:36:26.320
Himalayan mountain range. You have to

00:36:25.039 --> 00:36:28.880
design a drug that's an equivalent

00:36:26.320 --> 00:36:32.640
Himalayan mountain range that plugs into

00:36:28.880 --> 00:36:34.240
it perfectly. One millimeter off,

00:36:32.639 --> 00:36:37.440
you grow like a fourth eye, a third

00:36:34.239 --> 00:36:40.239
nipple, you die. You know, now you can

00:36:37.440 --> 00:36:43.440
use computers to make sure that that

00:36:40.239 --> 00:36:45.039
drug handin glove to your body solves

00:36:43.440 --> 00:36:47.760
the exact problem. Couldn't do that

00:36:45.039 --> 00:36:51.119
before. So, there's all of these body of

00:36:47.760 --> 00:36:54.240
examples and you're probably only

00:36:51.119 --> 00:36:57.200
hearing them superficially at best.

00:36:54.239 --> 00:37:00.239
That should be 99% of the attention is

00:36:57.199 --> 00:37:02.799
showing all of the constructive tactical

00:37:00.239 --> 00:37:06.000
ways in which our lives will be better.

00:37:02.800 --> 00:37:08.000
Your mom, your daughter, your wife, us,

00:37:06.000 --> 00:37:08.559
Jamie, his family, everybody,

00:37:08.000 --> 00:37:10.639
>> right?

00:37:08.559 --> 00:37:12.880
>> That's the number one thing. Nobody

00:37:10.639 --> 00:37:14.078
talks about it. I don't understand why.

00:37:12.880 --> 00:37:15.760
>> Well, I think because people are

00:37:14.079 --> 00:37:17.839
terrified of losing their jobs. So,

00:37:15.760 --> 00:37:19.920
that's the primary concern. The primary

00:37:17.838 --> 00:37:21.199
concern that I hear from people is that

00:37:19.920 --> 00:37:22.960
there's so many people that are going to

00:37:21.199 --> 00:37:25.118
school right now, college students, that

00:37:22.960 --> 00:37:27.920
don't know if their job is going to even

00:37:25.119 --> 00:37:29.358
exist in four years when they graduate.

00:37:27.920 --> 00:37:32.320
>> And that's the second part of I think

00:37:29.358 --> 00:37:34.639
what this industry has to do better.

00:37:32.320 --> 00:37:36.240
There's a I had uh lunch with Jeffrey

00:37:34.639 --> 00:37:39.279
Katzenberg. He told this crazy story.

00:37:36.239 --> 00:37:41.519
I'll I'll tell you. It's like Steve Jobs

00:37:39.280 --> 00:37:45.280
gets kicked out of Apple.

00:37:41.519 --> 00:37:48.239
um he buys he starts next

00:37:45.280 --> 00:37:49.920
and he buys Pixar from George Lucas, but

00:37:48.239 --> 00:37:52.799
then he hits a rough patch and he's got

00:37:49.920 --> 00:37:54.639
this, you know, financing issue. Kerberg

00:37:52.800 --> 00:37:56.880
flies up,

00:37:54.639 --> 00:38:00.559
spends time with Steve Jobs, says, "I'll

00:37:56.880 --> 00:38:02.160
buy Pixar." Jobs says, "Absolutely not."

00:38:00.559 --> 00:38:03.759
And then Katherenberg proposes a deal

00:38:02.159 --> 00:38:06.799
and he's like, "Uh, how about a

00:38:03.760 --> 00:38:08.960
three-picture deal?" Jobs says, "Okay."

00:38:06.800 --> 00:38:11.280
He flies back and apparently all the

00:38:08.960 --> 00:38:13.119
animators were up in arms because

00:38:11.280 --> 00:38:14.640
they're like, "Hold on a second. Steve

00:38:13.119 --> 00:38:17.200
Jobs is going to use these next

00:38:14.639 --> 00:38:19.759
computers to animate this movie." Which

00:38:17.199 --> 00:38:20.879
ultimately became, I think, Toy Story.

00:38:19.760 --> 00:38:23.119
And they're like, "This is going to put

00:38:20.880 --> 00:38:27.599
all of us out of a job." That perfect

00:38:23.119 --> 00:38:29.760
argument. And people were really upset.

00:38:27.599 --> 00:38:31.119
Roy Disney was upset. All the animators

00:38:29.760 --> 00:38:33.359
were upset. And they all went to Mike

00:38:31.119 --> 00:38:36.320
Eisner and they were like, "Michael, you

00:38:33.358 --> 00:38:38.159
need to fire Katzenberg."

00:38:36.320 --> 00:38:41.200
And they had a deal which was like,

00:38:38.159 --> 00:38:43.118
"Look, man, you do you, but just give me

00:38:41.199 --> 00:38:44.399
the ability to say no if I think that

00:38:43.119 --> 00:38:46.640
this is you're about to jump off a

00:38:44.400 --> 00:38:48.160
cliff." They talk about it and he's

00:38:46.639 --> 00:38:50.319
like, "I got your back. Do the deal.

00:38:48.159 --> 00:38:52.639
Make the movie." They made the movie. It

00:38:50.320 --> 00:38:54.720
was a huge success. Fast forward 10

00:38:52.639 --> 00:38:56.559
years, 15 years, there's 10x the number

00:38:54.719 --> 00:38:58.399
of animators.

00:38:56.559 --> 00:39:00.400
Now, it's a small example, but why is

00:38:58.400 --> 00:39:02.160
that? You were able to use computers and

00:39:00.400 --> 00:39:04.720
now all these new people were able to

00:39:02.159 --> 00:39:06.960
come and participate in that. I get it.

00:39:04.719 --> 00:39:09.199
It's a small example,

00:39:06.960 --> 00:39:11.679
but I think if we had better organized

00:39:09.199 --> 00:39:13.759
leadership and we could try to tell some

00:39:11.679 --> 00:39:16.399
of these examples, try to go back and

00:39:13.760 --> 00:39:18.320
document how some of these things have

00:39:16.400 --> 00:39:21.358
actually helped people, it expanded the

00:39:18.320 --> 00:39:23.200
pie, there's a chance. But if we don't,

00:39:21.358 --> 00:39:24.559
I agree with you where we're going to

00:39:23.199 --> 00:39:26.480
end up is everybody basically saying,

00:39:24.559 --> 00:39:28.960
"Hey, hold on a second. This is crazy.

00:39:26.480 --> 00:39:31.838
We need to stop this." That's the worst

00:39:28.960 --> 00:39:33.838
outcome because that's when you will

00:39:31.838 --> 00:39:35.599
have the a high risk of a dislocation.

00:39:33.838 --> 00:39:37.119
like the worst outcome like the black

00:39:35.599 --> 00:39:38.400
what's the black swan event, right?

00:39:37.119 --> 00:39:41.838
Let's think about the black the black

00:39:38.400 --> 00:39:46.639
swan event is when you get a model

00:39:41.838 --> 00:39:49.519
that's good enough to automate a bunch

00:39:46.639 --> 00:39:52.719
of labor

00:39:49.519 --> 00:39:54.880
but not good enough that it can build

00:39:52.719 --> 00:39:56.559
new drugs and prevent cancer and make

00:39:54.880 --> 00:39:57.680
you live for 200 years and all of this

00:39:56.559 --> 00:40:00.078
other stuff. Right? So there's like a

00:39:57.679 --> 00:40:02.078
gap, right? And if you can stop it here

00:40:00.079 --> 00:40:04.000
and it doesn't get to there, now you do

00:40:02.079 --> 00:40:06.800
have the worst of all worlds. You have

00:40:04.000 --> 00:40:08.719
this thing that kind of displaces labor.

00:40:06.800 --> 00:40:10.800
No new things come after it because we

00:40:08.719 --> 00:40:12.559
stop innovating.

00:40:10.800 --> 00:40:15.200
And that's like a that's like a

00:40:12.559 --> 00:40:16.719
nontrivial possibility now, I think.

00:40:15.199 --> 00:40:18.159
>> No, it's a huge possibility. And then

00:40:16.719 --> 00:40:20.480
there's also this thing that you brought

00:40:18.159 --> 00:40:22.000
up earlier where we have this place of

00:40:20.480 --> 00:40:24.639
abundance where no one has to work

00:40:22.000 --> 00:40:26.320
anymore. That freaks people out.

00:40:24.639 --> 00:40:29.039
>> I think that's a big problem. Well,

00:40:26.320 --> 00:40:31.680
because if no one has to work anymore,

00:40:29.039 --> 00:40:33.599
first of all, what what is your

00:40:31.679 --> 00:40:35.919
identity, right? Because so many people

00:40:33.599 --> 00:40:37.680
their identity is what they do. Whatever

00:40:35.920 --> 00:40:39.599
it is, if you're a lawyer, if you're an

00:40:37.679 --> 00:40:41.919
accountant, if you run a business,

00:40:39.599 --> 00:40:44.400
whatever it is, this is your identity.

00:40:41.920 --> 00:40:46.320
You know, you have built this thing, you

00:40:44.400 --> 00:40:48.559
look forward to going there, you work at

00:40:46.320 --> 00:40:50.880
it, you look forward to doing a good job

00:40:48.559 --> 00:40:53.358
and getting rewarded for it. The harder

00:40:50.880 --> 00:40:55.358
you work, the more you get paid. There's

00:40:53.358 --> 00:40:58.719
all these incentives built in. And then

00:40:55.358 --> 00:41:01.358
there's this again identity problem. If

00:40:58.719 --> 00:41:03.039
all of a sudden you have universal high

00:41:01.358 --> 00:41:05.759
income, which is what Elon always talks

00:41:03.039 --> 00:41:08.880
about. Well, what gives people purpose

00:41:05.760 --> 00:41:10.560
then? Like what? And also if you have a

00:41:08.880 --> 00:41:12.400
person whose entire they're, you know,

00:41:10.559 --> 00:41:14.799
43 years old in their entire life,

00:41:12.400 --> 00:41:16.318
they've worked towards this idea that

00:41:14.800 --> 00:41:18.560
the harder they work, the harder they

00:41:16.318 --> 00:41:20.400
think, the more innovative they are, and

00:41:18.559 --> 00:41:22.960
the the better they are at implementing

00:41:20.400 --> 00:41:24.800
these ideas, the more they get rewarded.

00:41:22.960 --> 00:41:27.119
And then all a sudden, that's not

00:41:24.800 --> 00:41:29.359
necessary anymore, Mike. Time for you to

00:41:27.119 --> 00:41:31.119
just relax and do what you want to do.

00:41:29.358 --> 00:41:33.358
And Mike's like, "Well, this is what I

00:41:31.119 --> 00:41:36.160
do. I this I I don't have any [ __ ]

00:41:33.358 --> 00:41:39.039
hobbies. I I enjoy doing what I do. And

00:41:36.159 --> 00:41:41.519
now what I do is completely useless and

00:41:39.039 --> 00:41:43.358
now I'm on a fixed income." Even if that

00:41:41.519 --> 00:41:44.960
fixed income is a million dollars a

00:41:43.358 --> 00:41:47.519
year, whatever it is.

00:41:44.960 --> 00:41:49.358
>> If all of a sudden you are in this

00:41:47.519 --> 00:41:51.440
position where everything is being run

00:41:49.358 --> 00:41:53.199
by computers, you feel useless. You feel

00:41:51.440 --> 00:41:56.079
like what am I doing? I'm just I'm just

00:41:53.199 --> 00:41:57.039
taking money. I'm on high welfare,

00:41:56.079 --> 00:41:58.160
>> right?

00:41:57.039 --> 00:41:59.519
>> Like what do I do?

00:41:58.159 --> 00:42:01.118
>> Right? I think that that's a really

00:41:59.519 --> 00:42:01.679
important question to answer. I don't

00:42:01.119 --> 00:42:03.280
know. Like

00:42:01.679 --> 00:42:05.039
>> some people are going to write books.

00:42:03.280 --> 00:42:06.640
Some people are going to do art. Some

00:42:05.039 --> 00:42:06.960
people are going to find things to do.

00:42:06.639 --> 00:42:08.480
But

00:42:06.960 --> 00:42:12.639
>> what do you think what do you think we

00:42:08.480 --> 00:42:15.280
would have done if if we were

00:42:12.639 --> 00:42:17.519
go back to the 1800s example. There was

00:42:15.280 --> 00:42:20.240
no office culture.

00:42:17.519 --> 00:42:24.480
You know, there's no like ladder to

00:42:20.239 --> 00:42:27.199
climb. How did people find meaning then?

00:42:24.480 --> 00:42:29.440
>> Well, they had jobs. People still did

00:42:27.199 --> 00:42:32.000
things. If you're a farmer, you you had

00:42:29.440 --> 00:42:33.838
meaning in your labor and what you did

00:42:32.000 --> 00:42:35.679
and keeping the animals alive and your

00:42:33.838 --> 00:42:37.279
chores. And there's people that find

00:42:35.679 --> 00:42:37.598
great satisfaction in doing that.

00:42:37.280 --> 00:42:38.720
>> Yeah.

00:42:37.599 --> 00:42:40.240
>> You know, you have all these animals

00:42:38.719 --> 00:42:41.519
that rely on you. You have people that

00:42:40.239 --> 00:42:43.598
rely on you for the food that you

00:42:41.519 --> 00:42:45.599
generate. There's there's meaning there.

00:42:43.599 --> 00:42:46.960
It doesn't have to be an office to be

00:42:45.599 --> 00:42:49.838
something that gives you purpose and

00:42:46.960 --> 00:42:52.400
meaning. But when all that is animated,

00:42:49.838 --> 00:42:54.480
then what happens? Because then you have

00:42:52.400 --> 00:42:56.240
no purpose, no meaning other than

00:42:54.480 --> 00:42:58.240
recreational activities. Now, if

00:42:56.239 --> 00:42:59.759
everybody just starts playing chess and

00:42:58.239 --> 00:43:01.919
doing a bunch of things that they really

00:42:59.760 --> 00:43:04.800
enjoy, I mean, look, there's people that

00:43:01.920 --> 00:43:06.240
would love to just play chess. Yeah.

00:43:04.800 --> 00:43:07.920
>> You know, it's like eight people.

00:43:06.239 --> 00:43:09.519
>> I don't know about that. I think if

00:43:07.920 --> 00:43:11.039
people really got into it, I mean,

00:43:09.519 --> 00:43:12.639
there's a lot of people that get

00:43:11.039 --> 00:43:14.880
addicted to whatever their recreation

00:43:12.639 --> 00:43:16.879
is, like golf or whatever it is. For me,

00:43:14.880 --> 00:43:18.640
it's playing pool. You know, if you told

00:43:16.880 --> 00:43:20.240
me I never have to make any more money,

00:43:18.639 --> 00:43:23.598
I could just play pool all day. I might

00:43:20.239 --> 00:43:25.919
just play pool all day. But I don't know

00:43:23.599 --> 00:43:27.359
how many people think that way. I don't

00:43:25.920 --> 00:43:29.440
know how many people would be able to

00:43:27.358 --> 00:43:31.838
find meaning and purpose in a

00:43:29.440 --> 00:43:34.480
recreational activity. There's so many

00:43:31.838 --> 00:43:36.639
people where their entire being is

00:43:34.480 --> 00:43:37.838
focused around productivity and

00:43:36.639 --> 00:43:39.759
generating more wealth.

00:43:37.838 --> 00:43:42.639
>> What about religion as a source of

00:43:39.760 --> 00:43:43.040
meaning? Well, that that would help that

00:43:42.639 --> 00:43:44.400
that

00:43:43.039 --> 00:43:45.759
>> Did you see this article in the New York

00:43:44.400 --> 00:43:48.639
Times, I think it was this weekend,

00:43:45.760 --> 00:43:50.880
about how popular and sold out churches

00:43:48.639 --> 00:43:51.920
have become as social constructs in New

00:43:50.880 --> 00:43:54.000
York City.

00:43:51.920 --> 00:43:56.720
>> It was totally fascinating. It's like

00:43:54.000 --> 00:43:59.679
young women like dressed to the nines

00:43:56.719 --> 00:44:03.118
going to church on a Sunday

00:43:59.679 --> 00:44:05.199
>> for social belonging, community meaning.

00:44:03.119 --> 00:44:06.960
I thought I was like so fascinated by

00:44:05.199 --> 00:44:09.439
it. I was like, "Wow, that's that's

00:44:06.960 --> 00:44:11.920
incredible." cuz like I I if I think if

00:44:09.440 --> 00:44:13.838
you graph like just like people's use of

00:44:11.920 --> 00:44:14.880
religion as an anchoring part of their

00:44:13.838 --> 00:44:16.639
value system

00:44:14.880 --> 00:44:18.960
>> over the last 40 years basically gone to

00:44:16.639 --> 00:44:20.559
zero. You know, nobody nobody celebrates

00:44:18.960 --> 00:44:22.159
it the way it's not a part of the

00:44:20.559 --> 00:44:23.519
community the way that it used to be.

00:44:22.159 --> 00:44:25.358
Maybe that's a thing that we have to

00:44:23.519 --> 00:44:27.599
find. There has to be a renewal of some

00:44:25.358 --> 00:44:30.799
older things and then there has to be

00:44:27.599 --> 00:44:32.160
new things that replace it. Um what's

00:44:30.800 --> 00:44:33.680
the Chinese answer to this? You know,

00:44:32.159 --> 00:44:35.759
the Chinese have a very orthogonal

00:44:33.679 --> 00:44:37.039
answer to this. If you look at how China

00:44:35.760 --> 00:44:40.160
China is organized, it's super

00:44:37.039 --> 00:44:41.599
interesting because they don't reward

00:44:40.159 --> 00:44:43.838
based on the way the American system

00:44:41.599 --> 00:44:47.519
rewards. In fact, it's like almost

00:44:43.838 --> 00:44:49.920
orthogonal where we it's we are rewarded

00:44:47.519 --> 00:44:52.000
with money and rewarded with sort of

00:44:49.920 --> 00:44:53.838
fame and recognition

00:44:52.000 --> 00:44:56.000
the system, the American capitalist

00:44:53.838 --> 00:44:58.400
system. But if you look inside of China,

00:44:56.000 --> 00:45:00.559
it's constantly testing who has this

00:44:58.400 --> 00:45:03.519
judgment. And what they are rewarded

00:45:00.559 --> 00:45:04.880
with is influence and power in a very

00:45:03.519 --> 00:45:06.079
again it's a very specific social

00:45:04.880 --> 00:45:07.119
contract doesn't doesn't I don't think

00:45:06.079 --> 00:45:08.880
it's going to work in the United States

00:45:07.119 --> 00:45:13.519
nor am I an advocate of it but it works

00:45:08.880 --> 00:45:16.079
for them. You'll start off as like some

00:45:13.519 --> 00:45:17.759
you know lowg person in like some small

00:45:16.079 --> 00:45:20.960
village town somewhere and your job as

00:45:17.760 --> 00:45:23.200
like the you know the functionary is to

00:45:20.960 --> 00:45:24.720
do good in that community and the more

00:45:23.199 --> 00:45:26.399
you do well you get promoted then you

00:45:24.719 --> 00:45:28.799
get let's say to like a reasonable size

00:45:26.400 --> 00:45:30.160
city and you get a budget and now what

00:45:28.800 --> 00:45:32.000
happens is you actually become a little

00:45:30.159 --> 00:45:34.000
bit like a VC like a venture capitalist

00:45:32.000 --> 00:45:37.358
you're given a budget and you'll get a

00:45:34.000 --> 00:45:39.358
memo and it'll say hey Joe uh we have a

00:45:37.358 --> 00:45:41.358
priority over the next 15 years it's

00:45:39.358 --> 00:45:44.078
batteries ries

00:45:41.358 --> 00:45:46.639
and you have enough money, put a team on

00:45:44.079 --> 00:45:48.640
the field. So, you go in your local

00:45:46.639 --> 00:45:49.598
community, you find a bunch of guys,

00:45:48.639 --> 00:45:51.598
you're like, "All right, guys. We're

00:45:49.599 --> 00:45:53.599
going to start a battery company." And

00:45:51.599 --> 00:45:56.000
you do it.

00:45:53.599 --> 00:45:59.200
And let's say they're good and they're

00:45:56.000 --> 00:46:01.280
like innovative. And what happens is in

00:45:59.199 --> 00:46:04.159
the town beside it, that battery company

00:46:01.280 --> 00:46:06.240
dies. Now, you kind of subsume the

00:46:04.159 --> 00:46:07.598
capital from Jamie, right? All right,

00:46:06.239 --> 00:46:09.279
cuz Jaime's like, "Fuck, I [ __ ] up

00:46:07.599 --> 00:46:10.800
this thing that I wanted I was told to

00:46:09.280 --> 00:46:13.519
do batteries." Okay, Joe, I'm just going

00:46:10.800 --> 00:46:16.720
to align with you. And what you happens

00:46:13.519 --> 00:46:19.519
over time is you get this um filtering

00:46:16.719 --> 00:46:21.838
effect. And the people that are better

00:46:19.519 --> 00:46:23.838
at meeting these long run priorities and

00:46:21.838 --> 00:46:25.759
objectives are the ones that are

00:46:23.838 --> 00:46:28.559
celebrated, but they're not celebrated

00:46:25.760 --> 00:46:30.400
with, you know, Forbes articles and all

00:46:28.559 --> 00:46:32.960
this other [ __ ] They're just

00:46:30.400 --> 00:46:34.559
celebrated by given more responsibility.

00:46:32.960 --> 00:46:36.400
And then eventually you get to the upper

00:46:34.559 --> 00:46:38.318
echelons of China and what you have are

00:46:36.400 --> 00:46:40.880
folks over a course of 40 or 50 years

00:46:38.318 --> 00:46:43.440
who in their eyes have demonstrated

00:46:40.880 --> 00:46:45.519
incredible prowess.

00:46:43.440 --> 00:46:47.519
There's a version of that reward system

00:46:45.519 --> 00:46:50.079
which is very foreign to America but

00:46:47.519 --> 00:46:51.759
that's worked for China. Now that also

00:46:50.079 --> 00:46:53.920
works because they're more confusion.

00:46:51.760 --> 00:46:57.119
You know we're too individualist.

00:46:53.920 --> 00:46:59.280
But my point is like you know there are

00:46:57.119 --> 00:47:01.680
these different ways that we can find of

00:46:59.280 --> 00:47:06.240
giving people meaning that don't have to

00:47:01.679 --> 00:47:07.919
be always around money. Um but meanwhile

00:47:06.239 --> 00:47:10.559
I think we have to answer the question

00:47:07.920 --> 00:47:12.720
if we are expected to do less we

00:47:10.559 --> 00:47:14.799
probably should not be taxed more.

00:47:12.719 --> 00:47:16.719
That's I think that's like a very basic

00:47:14.800 --> 00:47:19.200
in my mind I think that is like that

00:47:16.719 --> 00:47:21.039
must be explored and figured out. And on

00:47:19.199 --> 00:47:24.480
the other side, there's just a ton of

00:47:21.039 --> 00:47:26.880
obvious mechanisms that corporate actors

00:47:24.480 --> 00:47:28.480
can use to minimize that. And they

00:47:26.880 --> 00:47:29.760
should find offramps, by the way. If

00:47:28.480 --> 00:47:31.039
they want to build hospitals, they

00:47:29.760 --> 00:47:34.240
shouldn't have to pay taxes. Like that's

00:47:31.039 --> 00:47:35.759
a perfect example, by the way, of like

00:47:34.239 --> 00:47:37.358
the thing in like if you look, if you

00:47:35.760 --> 00:47:40.000
walk around New York City, there are

00:47:37.358 --> 00:47:43.039
living tributes to corporate success

00:47:40.000 --> 00:47:44.400
that people get benefit from every day.

00:47:43.039 --> 00:47:47.838
The hospitals, the buildings, the

00:47:44.400 --> 00:47:51.358
libraries, it's just everywhere.

00:47:47.838 --> 00:47:53.599
We need a version of that. And and I'm

00:47:51.358 --> 00:47:56.159
not a tax expert, but you know, if that

00:47:53.599 --> 00:47:58.400
can be funded by private actors, so go

00:47:56.159 --> 00:47:59.759
directly to the problem. Build a bunch

00:47:58.400 --> 00:48:02.079
of libraries, build a bunch of new

00:47:59.760 --> 00:48:04.480
universities that, you know, teach kids

00:48:02.079 --> 00:48:05.920
actually how to think or whatever. Build

00:48:04.480 --> 00:48:07.358
better hospitals that are, you know,

00:48:05.920 --> 00:48:09.280
there to actually solve the problem.

00:48:07.358 --> 00:48:09.759
These are all things that are possible,

00:48:09.280 --> 00:48:11.359
>> right?

00:48:09.760 --> 00:48:13.440
>> But none of it's happening today. Well,

00:48:11.358 --> 00:48:16.400
let's let's go back to what we were

00:48:13.440 --> 00:48:18.559
talking about earlier with the taxes and

00:48:16.400 --> 00:48:21.039
the fact that you're giving money to a

00:48:18.559 --> 00:48:23.599
broken system. Do you think it's

00:48:21.039 --> 00:48:27.199
possible that AI could show benefit in

00:48:23.599 --> 00:48:29.519
that they can analyze all the data,

00:48:27.199 --> 00:48:32.078
which would be virtually impossible for

00:48:29.519 --> 00:48:34.800
even an office filled with human beings

00:48:32.079 --> 00:48:37.039
paying attention to all of it, and they

00:48:34.800 --> 00:48:39.519
could analyze where all the money goes,

00:48:37.039 --> 00:48:42.960
and eliminate all the fraud and waste,

00:48:39.519 --> 00:48:46.079
like recognize it instantaneously. Yes,

00:48:42.960 --> 00:48:49.920
>> that would be a great benefit and a way

00:48:46.079 --> 00:48:50.880
to make it so that your taxes directly

00:48:49.920 --> 00:48:53.358
benefit people.

00:48:50.880 --> 00:48:55.599
>> I'll give you one example of this. So,

00:48:53.358 --> 00:48:57.039
two years ago,

00:48:55.599 --> 00:48:59.119
um, you know, like every few years I'll

00:48:57.039 --> 00:49:00.318
I mean, I invest, but every few years

00:48:59.119 --> 00:49:04.318
I'll start something because I feel

00:49:00.318 --> 00:49:07.039
strongly about it. And there's an effort

00:49:04.318 --> 00:49:09.599
that I made

00:49:07.039 --> 00:49:12.159
to look at all of this old code. Like if

00:49:09.599 --> 00:49:15.119
you think about the world,

00:49:12.159 --> 00:49:17.199
the world runs on software, right? Like

00:49:15.119 --> 00:49:19.838
even though you and I are talking, it's

00:49:17.199 --> 00:49:21.039
piping into Jaime's computer.

00:49:19.838 --> 00:49:22.639
It's all software. Then it goes to

00:49:21.039 --> 00:49:23.759
Spotify, they pump in some ads, they put

00:49:22.639 --> 00:49:27.199
it's all software, right?

00:49:23.760 --> 00:49:30.319
>> Software runs everything.

00:49:27.199 --> 00:49:32.558
What percentage of that do you think is

00:49:30.318 --> 00:49:34.480
kind of poorly written? I'm going to say

00:49:32.559 --> 00:49:34.960
probably 80 to 90% of it.

00:49:34.480 --> 00:49:38.318
>> Really?

00:49:34.960 --> 00:49:40.480
>> Oh, yeah. It's riddled with errors. It's

00:49:38.318 --> 00:49:43.599
riddled with mistakes. The fact that so

00:49:40.480 --> 00:49:45.039
many companies exist is an artifact of

00:49:43.599 --> 00:49:47.680
the fact that the thing that came before

00:49:45.039 --> 00:49:49.279
it isn't working.

00:49:47.679 --> 00:49:51.919
Like if you got it right the first time,

00:49:49.280 --> 00:49:53.839
it would just kind of move and go. So

00:49:51.920 --> 00:49:56.240
>> how so? What do you mean by that?

00:49:53.838 --> 00:49:57.920
>> So normally if you if you were like I

00:49:56.239 --> 00:49:58.558
want to build a system that does A, B,

00:49:57.920 --> 00:49:59.039
and C,

00:49:58.559 --> 00:50:02.079
>> right?

00:49:59.039 --> 00:50:03.199
>> If I was designing it properly, I would

00:50:02.079 --> 00:50:05.599
sit there with you and I would

00:50:03.199 --> 00:50:06.879
meticulously write down, all right, Joe

00:50:05.599 --> 00:50:09.039
wants to do this. What are the

00:50:06.880 --> 00:50:11.200
implications? Joe wants to do that. What

00:50:09.039 --> 00:50:13.599
are the implications? And I would

00:50:11.199 --> 00:50:16.159
actually write a document that was in

00:50:13.599 --> 00:50:18.640
English before a single line of code has

00:50:16.159 --> 00:50:20.558
been written. This was the when you have

00:50:18.639 --> 00:50:21.759
to design something that can't fail. So

00:50:20.559 --> 00:50:24.240
for example like if you and I are

00:50:21.760 --> 00:50:26.319
designing something for the FAA or for

00:50:24.239 --> 00:50:27.679
you know I hate to say this example

00:50:26.318 --> 00:50:30.639
because it turned out to not exact but

00:50:27.679 --> 00:50:34.000
like you know to fly a plane right you

00:50:30.639 --> 00:50:36.318
are first there to write in English and

00:50:34.000 --> 00:50:40.079
the reason is because everybody can then

00:50:36.318 --> 00:50:43.679
swarm that document and see the holes.

00:50:40.079 --> 00:50:46.318
Okay. And it's only then when that stuff

00:50:43.679 --> 00:50:49.279
looks complete and functional do you

00:50:46.318 --> 00:50:52.480
build. We turned that upside down. Over

00:50:49.280 --> 00:50:56.319
the last 30 years,

00:50:52.480 --> 00:50:58.318
people in computing invented

00:50:56.318 --> 00:51:00.719
all kinds of ways to shortcut that

00:50:58.318 --> 00:51:02.639
process. And you can say, well, why did

00:51:00.719 --> 00:51:04.558
they do that? Because it would allow you

00:51:02.639 --> 00:51:06.879
to build something faster, make more

00:51:04.559 --> 00:51:09.680
money quickly, and then build more

00:51:06.880 --> 00:51:11.280
business. So, the direct response to,

00:51:09.679 --> 00:51:12.799
"Hey, it's going to take us nine months

00:51:11.280 --> 00:51:14.319
to write down the rules." was somebody

00:51:12.800 --> 00:51:15.599
else showed up and says, "Fuck it. I'll

00:51:14.318 --> 00:51:17.759
just grip and rip this thing. I'll be

00:51:15.599 --> 00:51:19.200
done in four months." Who's going to get

00:51:17.760 --> 00:51:21.680
the job? The the fourmonth guy is going

00:51:19.199 --> 00:51:24.239
to get the job. So, we've had 30 or 40

00:51:21.679 --> 00:51:27.118
years of that. What are we learning

00:51:24.239 --> 00:51:29.919
about that process?

00:51:27.119 --> 00:51:32.318
It's riddled with software errors, like

00:51:29.920 --> 00:51:34.159
logic errors. It's riddled with security

00:51:32.318 --> 00:51:36.639
errors. I don't know if you saw this

00:51:34.159 --> 00:51:37.679
whole thing like with anthropic mythos.

00:51:36.639 --> 00:51:39.279
What are they uncovering? They're

00:51:37.679 --> 00:51:42.719
uncovering that we wrote a lot of really

00:51:39.280 --> 00:51:45.519
shitty code for 40 years.

00:51:42.719 --> 00:51:49.118
So that body of

00:51:45.519 --> 00:51:50.800
of old code, I was like, "Guys, if we're

00:51:49.119 --> 00:51:53.599
going to really figure out how to do all

00:51:50.800 --> 00:51:58.079
of this, we need to rewrite all of it."

00:51:53.599 --> 00:51:59.280
So we built we built this thing and um

00:51:58.079 --> 00:52:01.039
it's called the software factory.

00:51:59.280 --> 00:52:02.400
Anyways, the point is there is a

00:52:01.039 --> 00:52:04.400
government organization that we're

00:52:02.400 --> 00:52:07.440
working with.

00:52:04.400 --> 00:52:12.358
They gave us a huge corpus of their old

00:52:07.440 --> 00:52:12.358
code and it is

00:52:12.639 --> 00:52:17.920
Unbelievable

00:52:14.719 --> 00:52:21.439
how much complexity and difficulty

00:52:17.920 --> 00:52:22.960
they have to go through to manage all

00:52:21.440 --> 00:52:24.400
the money flows with the system. And

00:52:22.960 --> 00:52:26.079
this is a critical part of the US

00:52:24.400 --> 00:52:28.318
government. So to your point, what I can

00:52:26.079 --> 00:52:30.240
tell you really explicitly is the people

00:52:28.318 --> 00:52:32.079
on the ground want this stuff to be

00:52:30.239 --> 00:52:35.598
better written.

00:52:32.079 --> 00:52:38.318
It's it's less like some nefarious actor

00:52:35.599 --> 00:52:41.280
like, "Oh, I'm going to steal here."

00:52:38.318 --> 00:52:44.079
It's a lot of very brittle, fragile

00:52:41.280 --> 00:52:46.880
code. And when you rewrite it, well,

00:52:44.079 --> 00:52:48.640
first when you document it, you're like,

00:52:46.880 --> 00:52:50.240
it's like the, you know, the pulp

00:52:48.639 --> 00:52:52.879
fiction thing. The suitcase opens, the

00:52:50.239 --> 00:52:55.358
light shines, and you're like, uh, and

00:52:52.880 --> 00:52:57.760
then you can rewrite it and you will

00:52:55.358 --> 00:52:59.279
save. So, I think like as the government

00:52:57.760 --> 00:53:01.599
goes through this process because

00:52:59.280 --> 00:53:03.839
they're forced to or they want to, it

00:53:01.599 --> 00:53:06.559
won't matter.

00:53:03.838 --> 00:53:08.000
You are going to save a ton of money.

00:53:06.559 --> 00:53:11.119
They're going to have to do it, Joe,

00:53:08.000 --> 00:53:13.119
because the security risks are too high.

00:53:11.119 --> 00:53:15.838
But what they're going to end up with is

00:53:13.119 --> 00:53:17.838
impregnable code that you can read in

00:53:15.838 --> 00:53:19.440
English and understand. You'll see the

00:53:17.838 --> 00:53:21.039
holes. Those holes will be plugged

00:53:19.440 --> 00:53:24.079
because otherwise now you'd be

00:53:21.039 --> 00:53:25.519
committing fraud by letting it be. You

00:53:24.079 --> 00:53:28.079
close the loopholes and there's just

00:53:25.519 --> 00:53:30.239
going to be less money leaking out of

00:53:28.079 --> 00:53:31.839
this bucket. That is an incredible

00:53:30.239 --> 00:53:33.919
byproduct. We're going to live that over

00:53:31.838 --> 00:53:36.239
the next 10 or 20 years just for

00:53:33.920 --> 00:53:38.960
nothing. Like we get it for free.

00:53:36.239 --> 00:53:40.479
Um, and that's happening. So when that

00:53:38.960 --> 00:53:42.880
happens, you're going to see government

00:53:40.480 --> 00:53:44.400
budgets shrink. Now, to your point, will

00:53:42.880 --> 00:53:45.920
they try to spend that extra money in

00:53:44.400 --> 00:53:46.720
other places? Of course. Of course they

00:53:45.920 --> 00:53:48.159
will.

00:53:46.719 --> 00:53:49.759
>> That's the next conversation, which is

00:53:48.159 --> 00:53:51.358
you have to elect people that say

00:53:49.760 --> 00:53:53.599
firewall it.

00:53:51.358 --> 00:53:56.000
>> You know, whatever you save, give it

00:53:53.599 --> 00:53:57.680
back to the people or, you know, invest

00:53:56.000 --> 00:53:59.838
in some scholarship program or free

00:53:57.679 --> 00:54:03.919
medicine or something, but you can't

00:53:59.838 --> 00:54:05.519
spend it on other random [ __ ] Um, but

00:54:03.920 --> 00:54:08.000
that's where we're at. this that's gonna

00:54:05.519 --> 00:54:09.599
happen. It's going to be slow and you

00:54:08.000 --> 00:54:11.039
know but when people start to announce

00:54:09.599 --> 00:54:12.240
these things I think over the next few

00:54:11.039 --> 00:54:14.079
years you're going to be shocked.

00:54:12.239 --> 00:54:15.679
>> So that's the positive upside.

00:54:14.079 --> 00:54:18.480
>> Well that's happening now irregardless

00:54:15.679 --> 00:54:20.960
of whatever else happens.

00:54:18.480 --> 00:54:23.519
There's just it's a lot of old shitty

00:54:20.960 --> 00:54:25.440
code that must get rebuilt from scratch.

00:54:23.519 --> 00:54:27.920
It is getting rebuilt from scratch and

00:54:25.440 --> 00:54:29.039
as a result a lot of these leaky bucket

00:54:27.920 --> 00:54:30.800
problems are getting filled.

00:54:29.039 --> 00:54:32.318
>> So what percentage do you think could be

00:54:30.800 --> 00:54:35.039
fixed?

00:54:32.318 --> 00:54:37.679
I think if if I had to be a betting man,

00:54:35.039 --> 00:54:39.920
I think probably

00:54:37.679 --> 00:54:44.078
30 to 40%

00:54:39.920 --> 00:54:45.599
of the federal budget is leaked out

00:54:44.079 --> 00:54:47.359
>> just from shitty code.

00:54:45.599 --> 00:54:49.119
>> No, meaning like all of the rules and

00:54:47.358 --> 00:54:50.799
like like you can take I'm not saying

00:54:49.119 --> 00:54:52.000
that there isn't fraud,

00:54:50.800 --> 00:54:53.680
>> right?

00:54:52.000 --> 00:54:55.760
>> But I think a lot of times what happens

00:54:53.679 --> 00:54:58.558
is less nefarious than fraud like

00:54:55.760 --> 00:55:00.400
meaning like conspiratorial actors. I

00:54:58.559 --> 00:55:03.119
just think it's like incompetence,

00:55:00.400 --> 00:55:03.680
inefficiency, errors. Like for example,

00:55:03.119 --> 00:55:06.160
like

00:55:03.679 --> 00:55:08.318
>> I I saw Doge just say

00:55:06.159 --> 00:55:11.838
>> they were able to like expunge like

00:55:08.318 --> 00:55:13.039
millions of people that were like 150

00:55:11.838 --> 00:55:14.960
years old or more.

00:55:13.039 --> 00:55:17.279
>> Mhm.

00:55:14.960 --> 00:55:20.639
>> I have no idea how much money those

00:55:17.280 --> 00:55:22.079
folks were getting or who they were.

00:55:20.639 --> 00:55:24.078
>> Uh but it's probably a lot. It's

00:55:22.079 --> 00:55:25.760
probably not zero. And now that they got

00:55:24.079 --> 00:55:28.480
rid of it, they're not going to get that

00:55:25.760 --> 00:55:30.240
money anymore. Um

00:55:28.480 --> 00:55:33.519
if you implement something at the state

00:55:30.239 --> 00:55:36.159
level around you know all of this fraud

00:55:33.519 --> 00:55:38.719
prevention for the daycarees and all of

00:55:36.159 --> 00:55:40.719
this other stuff again it's all in

00:55:38.719 --> 00:55:43.519
software because it's not no matter what

00:55:40.719 --> 00:55:45.039
the human wants to do you have to go to

00:55:43.519 --> 00:55:47.519
a computer at some point at least today

00:55:45.039 --> 00:55:49.199
in 2026 and type in something and

00:55:47.519 --> 00:55:50.880
something happens that's documented and

00:55:49.199 --> 00:55:52.879
then the money gets sent right that

00:55:50.880 --> 00:55:55.280
happens there's no other way in in the

00:55:52.880 --> 00:55:57.358
modern world today at scale to steal

00:55:55.280 --> 00:56:00.240
billions of dollars

00:55:57.358 --> 00:56:03.358
And so my point is, as you document all

00:56:00.239 --> 00:56:05.118
of these systems and governments have to

00:56:03.358 --> 00:56:08.000
transparently tell you and me, the

00:56:05.119 --> 00:56:09.200
voting population, here are the rules,

00:56:08.000 --> 00:56:10.960
they're going to plug a lot of these

00:56:09.199 --> 00:56:12.078
holes. And I think as you do that,

00:56:10.960 --> 00:56:14.639
there's just going to be a lot less

00:56:12.079 --> 00:56:15.839
waste and fraud. The question is, who's

00:56:14.639 --> 00:56:17.440
going to take credit for it? Everybody's

00:56:15.838 --> 00:56:19.279
going to try to take credit for it, but

00:56:17.440 --> 00:56:20.798
I think we've started it. I think we've

00:56:19.280 --> 00:56:23.680
we've started this process. And again,

00:56:20.798 --> 00:56:24.960
the reason that people will start is

00:56:23.679 --> 00:56:26.399
because you'll be afraid of China

00:56:24.960 --> 00:56:28.559
hacking these systems. You'll be afraid

00:56:26.400 --> 00:56:30.559
of Iran, North Korea, and you'll say,

00:56:28.559 --> 00:56:31.839
"This system can't stand. All these AI

00:56:30.559 --> 00:56:33.599
models are running around. We're going

00:56:31.838 --> 00:56:35.440
to get breached and penetrated." Then

00:56:33.599 --> 00:56:37.119
they're going to steal all the money.

00:56:35.440 --> 00:56:38.960
And the natural reaction will be, "Okay,

00:56:37.119 --> 00:56:41.680
rewrite it."

00:56:38.960 --> 00:56:44.159
This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp.

00:56:41.679 --> 00:56:46.239
We've all been there. Staying up late,

00:56:44.159 --> 00:56:48.480
stressed about the future. Maybe you're

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stressed out about, you don't have to

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has all of life's answers. And it's a

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sign of strength and self-awareness to

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reach out for help. That's why this

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mental health awareness month, we're

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00:57:45.920 --> 00:57:50.760
That's better. H E LP.com/jre.

00:57:52.159 --> 00:57:56.719
That makes sense. That makes sense that

00:57:54.079 --> 00:57:59.519
the code and having a bunch of errors

00:57:56.719 --> 00:58:02.719
and having a lot of inefficiency and

00:57:59.519 --> 00:58:06.798
just a lot of incompetence. That's going

00:58:02.719 --> 00:58:09.919
to save a lot of money. But

00:58:06.798 --> 00:58:11.280
so you would be doing this with AI

00:58:09.920 --> 00:58:15.200
>> in part.

00:58:11.280 --> 00:58:17.200
What AI allows you to do is like it's

00:58:15.199 --> 00:58:18.879
like um

00:58:17.199 --> 00:58:20.399
you have a textbook. Okay. It's in

00:58:18.880 --> 00:58:20.798
Chinese. You don't know Chinese, right?

00:58:20.400 --> 00:58:22.480
>> No.

00:58:20.798 --> 00:58:23.838
>> Okay. You're like, "Well, this is

00:58:22.480 --> 00:58:26.318
probably doing something important, but

00:58:23.838 --> 00:58:29.679
it's in Chinese." What AI allows you to

00:58:26.318 --> 00:58:31.679
do is back translate that into English.

00:58:29.679 --> 00:58:34.078
You put it through an AI model. You

00:58:31.679 --> 00:58:36.639
teach it. You coach it, right? You can

00:58:34.079 --> 00:58:39.760
parameterize all of it. And out pops

00:58:36.639 --> 00:58:43.598
that same book in English. and now you

00:58:39.760 --> 00:58:45.119
can read it and know that it's accurate.

00:58:43.599 --> 00:58:46.480
That's what we're doing. So, what the AI

00:58:45.119 --> 00:58:48.400
allows you to do is essentially

00:58:46.480 --> 00:58:50.719
translate from this one language that

00:58:48.400 --> 00:58:53.760
you kind of don't understand

00:58:50.719 --> 00:58:56.480
to English.

00:58:53.760 --> 00:58:58.799
By the way, that thing that's happening

00:58:56.480 --> 00:59:01.358
like is actually also a very powerful

00:58:58.798 --> 00:59:03.119
and important trend. Meaning there's all

00:59:01.358 --> 00:59:05.199
of these systems that work in ways that

00:59:03.119 --> 00:59:06.798
you and I don't understand. And part of

00:59:05.199 --> 00:59:08.159
the reason why we don't understand it,

00:59:06.798 --> 00:59:10.400
maybe it's bad software, maybe it's

00:59:08.159 --> 00:59:12.558
fraud, whatever. But nothing can be

00:59:10.400 --> 00:59:14.000
written down. There's no symbolic space.

00:59:12.559 --> 00:59:16.000
There's no English document that says

00:59:14.000 --> 00:59:17.440
this is how the DMV works. This is

00:59:16.000 --> 00:59:19.280
exactly the rules. This is what you can

00:59:17.440 --> 00:59:20.798
expect, Joe Rogan, when you show up at

00:59:19.280 --> 00:59:22.720
the DMV and you give us this thing.

00:59:20.798 --> 00:59:24.079
Here's your SLA. In 3 days, you get a

00:59:22.719 --> 00:59:26.159
driver's license and here's exactly

00:59:24.079 --> 00:59:29.519
what's happening. And here's an app and

00:59:26.159 --> 00:59:31.519
you can follow it. Doesn't happen. Here

00:59:29.519 --> 00:59:33.920
Joe Rogan, here's how my uh insurance

00:59:31.519 --> 00:59:35.280
billing process works. you have this

00:59:33.920 --> 00:59:36.720
condition. I'm going to show you exactly

00:59:35.280 --> 00:59:38.400
why I made this decision. Here's the

00:59:36.719 --> 00:59:41.199
exact rule. Here's the approval or

00:59:38.400 --> 00:59:42.798
denial from CMS. Follow it through and

00:59:41.199 --> 00:59:44.639
tell me if you agree or not. None of

00:59:42.798 --> 00:59:47.199
that exists.

00:59:44.639 --> 00:59:48.879
But it is possible. And the first step

00:59:47.199 --> 00:59:51.039
in doing that is taking all of this

00:59:48.880 --> 00:59:52.640
legacy [ __ ] that we deal with and

00:59:51.039 --> 00:59:54.480
translating it into English and reading

00:59:52.639 --> 00:59:56.318
it and saying, is this how we want it to

00:59:54.480 --> 00:59:58.318
work?

00:59:56.318 --> 01:00:00.558
That's going to eliminate an enormous

00:59:58.318 --> 01:00:02.719
amount of all the things that frustrate

01:00:00.559 --> 01:00:03.760
us. So this would require human

01:00:02.719 --> 01:00:04.318
oversight.

01:00:03.760 --> 01:00:05.599
>> Absolutely.

01:00:04.318 --> 01:00:08.000
>> All right. So

01:00:05.599 --> 01:00:09.440
>> and so then it's also going to be who's

01:00:08.000 --> 01:00:11.280
watching the watchers.

01:00:09.440 --> 01:00:12.960
>> Yeah. Okay. This is a great question.

01:00:11.280 --> 01:00:14.720
Okay. So I'll tell you how this

01:00:12.960 --> 01:00:16.960
government agency's doing it.

01:00:14.719 --> 01:00:20.399
>> This is a really fascinating way because

01:00:16.960 --> 01:00:22.720
I think it's very smart.

01:00:20.400 --> 01:00:24.318
They came to us and they came to another

01:00:22.719 --> 01:00:26.639
very well-known company. You can

01:00:24.318 --> 01:00:28.079
probably guess what it is. Okay. And

01:00:26.639 --> 01:00:30.639
they're like, "Guys, you're kind of in a

01:00:28.079 --> 01:00:32.000
foot race, but you're not competing

01:00:30.639 --> 01:00:34.078
against each other. You think of

01:00:32.000 --> 01:00:36.318
yourselves as frenemies.

01:00:34.079 --> 01:00:37.680
So, here's this Chinese document. You're

01:00:36.318 --> 01:00:39.199
going to translate it for us. There's

01:00:37.679 --> 01:00:41.759
going to be your version of English and

01:00:39.199 --> 01:00:43.679
these guys' version of English. And

01:00:41.760 --> 01:00:45.040
every time it's the same, we're going to

01:00:43.679 --> 01:00:47.598
look at it together, and we're going to

01:00:45.039 --> 01:00:50.318
agree or not. Okay, this is exactly how

01:00:47.599 --> 01:00:54.000
we want this to work."

01:00:50.318 --> 01:00:56.318
When yours says the dog is red and his

01:00:54.000 --> 01:00:58.559
says the dog is yellow, we're going to

01:00:56.318 --> 01:01:01.358
sit and literally inspect it and we're

01:00:58.559 --> 01:01:04.000
going to figure out why you said red and

01:01:01.358 --> 01:01:07.358
why you said yellow.

01:01:04.000 --> 01:01:09.519
And then if you say the cat is red, the

01:01:07.358 --> 01:01:11.519
dog is yellow. So it's totally wrong,

01:01:09.519 --> 01:01:14.000
right? Like you've gotten, you know, or

01:01:11.519 --> 01:01:16.880
like the cat is red, I want an apple,

01:01:14.000 --> 01:01:19.519
whatever. We're going to double and

01:01:16.880 --> 01:01:22.559
triple down on those kinds of errors.

01:01:19.519 --> 01:01:24.559
and they do it not in public but in this

01:01:22.559 --> 01:01:26.000
large community where there's like

01:01:24.559 --> 01:01:28.319
technical people from all different

01:01:26.000 --> 01:01:32.000
parts and they're just swarming this

01:01:28.318 --> 01:01:34.960
problem. It is it's incredible to see.

01:01:32.000 --> 01:01:38.239
And so what happens is you get humans

01:01:34.960 --> 01:01:39.920
that get to use this tool but ultimately

01:01:38.239 --> 01:01:42.318
it's our judgment and it's done

01:01:39.920 --> 01:01:44.480
transparently. So what happens is you

01:01:42.318 --> 01:01:46.318
can't you know hey man put this [ __ ]

01:01:44.480 --> 01:01:48.318
rule in there like the dog is yellow

01:01:46.318 --> 01:01:51.679
just just make the dog yellow. can't do

01:01:48.318 --> 01:01:53.119
it because now you have tens of people,

01:01:51.679 --> 01:01:56.078
hundreds of people, and then it gets

01:01:53.119 --> 01:01:57.200
documented. Um, it's super fascinating.

01:01:56.079 --> 01:01:58.480
I'm not saying this is how it's going to

01:01:57.199 --> 01:01:59.838
work in 10 years, but I'm telling you,

01:01:58.480 --> 01:02:03.760
it's literally what's happening right

01:01:59.838 --> 01:02:06.000
now. And I think that thing alone will

01:02:03.760 --> 01:02:07.680
be tens of billions of dollars and could

01:02:06.000 --> 01:02:10.798
be hundreds of billions of dollars of

01:02:07.679 --> 01:02:12.480
savings when it's fully done.

01:02:10.798 --> 01:02:14.798
And it's a lot of people from all walks

01:02:12.480 --> 01:02:16.880
of life, all political persuasions, and

01:02:14.798 --> 01:02:18.880
they're just in it. It's the government.

01:02:16.880 --> 01:02:21.440
It's a handful of us private companies.

01:02:18.880 --> 01:02:23.039
It's super cool to see. It's like it's

01:02:21.440 --> 01:02:24.639
like, okay, we're actually going to do

01:02:23.039 --> 01:02:27.358
something here. Like, this is this is

01:02:24.639 --> 01:02:27.920
nice. Um, it's it's really it's really

01:02:27.358 --> 01:02:29.519
cool.

01:02:27.920 --> 01:02:31.039
>> So, that's interesting in terms of the

01:02:29.519 --> 01:02:34.400
current moment. So, in the current

01:02:31.039 --> 01:02:37.358
moment, you're able to implement this.

01:02:34.400 --> 01:02:39.440
You're you're able to find fraud and

01:02:37.358 --> 01:02:41.039
waste and all these problems that exist

01:02:39.440 --> 01:02:44.960
and all these errors and shitty

01:02:41.039 --> 01:02:47.440
software. Once that's all been done,

01:02:44.960 --> 01:02:48.720
>> Yeah. Then what happens?

01:02:47.440 --> 01:02:50.798
>> No [ __ ] clue.

01:02:48.719 --> 01:02:53.679
>> Yeah. So, this is where it gets weird,

01:02:50.798 --> 01:02:56.318
right? Because

01:02:53.679 --> 01:02:58.639
when when you're dealing with AI models

01:02:56.318 --> 01:03:00.318
that are capable of doing things that no

01:02:58.639 --> 01:03:04.480
individual human being could ever

01:03:00.318 --> 01:03:07.039
possibly imagine. And then you task it

01:03:04.480 --> 01:03:10.079
with a solution or with a problem. Find

01:03:07.039 --> 01:03:13.440
a solution for this. And then it starts

01:03:10.079 --> 01:03:15.839
figuring out ways to trim this and

01:03:13.440 --> 01:03:18.079
implement that.

01:03:15.838 --> 01:03:20.798
We have to make sure that these AIs act

01:03:18.079 --> 01:03:22.480
within they act within the best

01:03:20.798 --> 01:03:23.358
interests of the human race.

01:03:22.480 --> 01:03:25.679
>> Agreed.

01:03:23.358 --> 01:03:29.358
>> Right. Not the company, not the

01:03:25.679 --> 01:03:30.960
government, not but the human race. And

01:03:29.358 --> 01:03:32.480
you're also dealing with China. You're

01:03:30.960 --> 01:03:34.318
also dealing with Russia. you're dealing

01:03:32.480 --> 01:03:37.039
with other countries that are also in

01:03:34.318 --> 01:03:40.000
this mad race to create artificial

01:03:37.039 --> 01:03:42.559
general super intelligence that if we

01:03:40.000 --> 01:03:44.639
keep shutting down data centers, we keep

01:03:42.559 --> 01:03:45.359
hamstring ourselves, China's not doing

01:03:44.639 --> 01:03:46.400
that.

01:03:45.358 --> 01:03:49.119
>> They're not doing that. They're doing

01:03:46.400 --> 01:03:51.119
the opposite. They're generating as much

01:03:49.119 --> 01:03:53.440
revenue that goes towards this problem

01:03:51.119 --> 01:03:56.240
as possible. They're putting all the

01:03:53.440 --> 01:03:58.480
efforts, the the country, the

01:03:56.239 --> 01:04:00.879
government, and these corporations work

01:03:58.480 --> 01:04:02.159
hand in glove in order to achieve a

01:04:00.880 --> 01:04:03.119
goal. We do not.

01:04:02.159 --> 01:04:05.519
>> No.

01:04:03.119 --> 01:04:07.680
>> And that that becomes a problem if you

01:04:05.519 --> 01:04:09.280
want to be competitive with these other

01:04:07.679 --> 01:04:10.480
countries that are trying to achieve the

01:04:09.280 --> 01:04:12.798
same result as us. And then you have

01:04:10.480 --> 01:04:14.480
espionage. Then you have a bunch of

01:04:12.798 --> 01:04:17.599
people that are stealing information.

01:04:14.480 --> 01:04:20.960
You have a bunch of people that are CCP

01:04:17.599 --> 01:04:23.359
um members that are actually involved in

01:04:20.960 --> 01:04:25.199
companies. And you find out that they're

01:04:23.358 --> 01:04:27.440
siphoning off data and that they're

01:04:25.199 --> 01:04:31.519
sharing information and tech secrets.

01:04:27.440 --> 01:04:33.519
>> They're um look, here's a

01:04:31.519 --> 01:04:36.000
They're pro they're dis the way that the

01:04:33.519 --> 01:04:39.440
Chinese models work the Chinese claim.

01:04:36.000 --> 01:04:42.318
So America's closed source, meaning you

01:04:39.440 --> 01:04:43.599
got your own thing. Your recipe is

01:04:42.318 --> 01:04:43.920
completely secret,

01:04:43.599 --> 01:04:45.760
>> right?

01:04:43.920 --> 01:04:48.159
>> Okay. I have my own thing. My recipe is

01:04:45.760 --> 01:04:51.440
totally secret.

01:04:48.159 --> 01:04:55.279
China uses this word called open source,

01:04:51.440 --> 01:04:56.880
but it's not open source. So they say,

01:04:55.280 --> 01:04:58.880
"Here's how I make my thing. You can see

01:04:56.880 --> 01:05:00.318
it. Super transparent." What it is is

01:04:58.880 --> 01:05:02.400
more like open weights, which is like in

01:05:00.318 --> 01:05:05.440
a recipe. It tells you, you know, you

01:05:02.400 --> 01:05:08.240
need sugar, you need butter. Well, how

01:05:05.440 --> 01:05:09.440
much sugar? And they'll say, you know,

01:05:08.239 --> 01:05:10.719
so much. But then they don't say it's

01:05:09.440 --> 01:05:11.920
brown sugar. They don't say it's white

01:05:10.719 --> 01:05:13.358
sugar. So there's all these different

01:05:11.920 --> 01:05:14.798
ways where they kind of give you this

01:05:13.358 --> 01:05:17.038
perception that it's completely

01:05:14.798 --> 01:05:19.920
transparent, but it's somewhat

01:05:17.039 --> 01:05:22.000
transparent. So just in the level set,

01:05:19.920 --> 01:05:24.639
nobody in the world has a functional

01:05:22.000 --> 01:05:28.239
open- source model other than maybe

01:05:24.639 --> 01:05:30.000
Nvidia, which is any good in the league

01:05:28.239 --> 01:05:31.759
of the closed source models and the

01:05:30.000 --> 01:05:33.440
openweight models of the Chinese. Okay,

01:05:31.760 --> 01:05:34.640
so the Chinese openweight models are

01:05:33.440 --> 01:05:37.920
great.

01:05:34.639 --> 01:05:40.078
the closed source models of America are

01:05:37.920 --> 01:05:43.440
great and then there's a couple open-

01:05:40.079 --> 01:05:46.240
source like fully open that are kind of

01:05:43.440 --> 01:05:48.720
catching up. Um the thing between

01:05:46.239 --> 01:05:52.318
America and China what I find so

01:05:48.719 --> 01:05:53.519
fascinating is this following conundrum

01:05:52.318 --> 01:05:55.920
that everybody is going to find

01:05:53.519 --> 01:05:57.920
themselves in.

01:05:55.920 --> 01:05:59.760
I think like if you think of like an

01:05:57.920 --> 01:06:02.400
analogy,

01:05:59.760 --> 01:06:04.000
America's like a planet, China's like a

01:06:02.400 --> 01:06:07.920
planet

01:06:04.000 --> 01:06:09.920
and around us are these moons.

01:06:07.920 --> 01:06:12.079
And I'm just using the AI analogy. So in

01:06:09.920 --> 01:06:13.599
AI, what do you need? I think there's

01:06:12.079 --> 01:06:15.680
like four or five things you need. Okay,

01:06:13.599 --> 01:06:18.880
the first thing you need is a [ __ ] ton

01:06:15.679 --> 01:06:20.480
of money. So we need essentially the

01:06:18.880 --> 01:06:22.798
banks, right? Like the Game of Thrones

01:06:20.480 --> 01:06:24.079
thing. We need like we need, you know,

01:06:22.798 --> 01:06:26.400
>> we need the iron bank,

01:06:24.079 --> 01:06:28.000
>> right? feed us the money because that's

01:06:26.400 --> 01:06:30.880
what we use to buy everything and make

01:06:28.000 --> 01:06:34.079
everything. So, we need that. We need a

01:06:30.880 --> 01:06:38.160
ton of data. Okay, there's ways to get

01:06:34.079 --> 01:06:40.798
that. We need a ton of very specific

01:06:38.159 --> 01:06:44.159
rare earths and critical metals and

01:06:40.798 --> 01:06:48.000
materials. Um, we need a ton of power.

01:06:44.159 --> 01:06:49.519
So, so and there are specific countries

01:06:48.000 --> 01:06:51.280
that are going to be really good at

01:06:49.519 --> 01:06:52.880
giving that to us. So if you look at the

01:06:51.280 --> 01:06:54.720
UAE,

01:06:52.880 --> 01:06:57.599
they are going to be the preeminent

01:06:54.719 --> 01:06:59.279
banking partner of the Western world.

01:06:57.599 --> 01:07:01.119
They are going to replace and be what

01:06:59.280 --> 01:07:04.400
Switzerland was over the last 50 years

01:07:01.119 --> 01:07:07.519
for the next 50. That's happening today.

01:07:04.400 --> 01:07:10.880
If you look at Canada and Australia,

01:07:07.519 --> 01:07:12.559
the small political fissures aside, they

01:07:10.880 --> 01:07:14.400
are the two most important ways in which

01:07:12.559 --> 01:07:16.559
we get access to the critical metals and

01:07:14.400 --> 01:07:18.480
materials that without which we get

01:07:16.559 --> 01:07:22.079
[ __ ] because China owns, you know, can

01:07:18.480 --> 01:07:24.000
just strangle us. Okay? So, you have

01:07:22.079 --> 01:07:26.160
these like moons around the United

01:07:24.000 --> 01:07:28.559
States, but there's like five countries,

01:07:26.159 --> 01:07:30.639
six countries, and there's a worldview

01:07:28.559 --> 01:07:33.039
that says in China has the same thing,

01:07:30.639 --> 01:07:34.480
you know, um they have Taiwan, that's

01:07:33.039 --> 01:07:35.760
complicated for us. So now we have a

01:07:34.480 --> 01:07:37.119
moon that we don't really have an answer

01:07:35.760 --> 01:07:39.359
for, which is what happens, you know,

01:07:37.119 --> 01:07:42.000
for all these super advanced chips.

01:07:39.358 --> 01:07:43.920
Where do they get their money? Maybe

01:07:42.000 --> 01:07:45.599
Russia becomes their bank. Where do they

01:07:43.920 --> 01:07:47.200
get their critical metals? Maybe it's

01:07:45.599 --> 01:07:49.039
Indonesia, right? Who has a ton of

01:07:47.199 --> 01:07:51.118
natural resources? And then you get into

01:07:49.039 --> 01:07:53.280
this game theory, which is what happens

01:07:51.119 --> 01:07:55.519
to every other country? Because there's

01:07:53.280 --> 01:07:59.440
190 countries. You have 10 that kind of

01:07:55.519 --> 01:08:01.679
divide up. What do the other 180 do? And

01:07:59.440 --> 01:08:03.200
you have to kind of sort yourself.

01:08:01.679 --> 01:08:05.838
You're like, "Am I on team America or am

01:08:03.199 --> 01:08:07.439
I on team China?" And you probably have

01:08:05.838 --> 01:08:09.440
to go to people and say, "Well, here's

01:08:07.440 --> 01:08:11.358
what I can give you." You know, if

01:08:09.440 --> 01:08:12.720
you're Indonesia, you're like, you

01:08:11.358 --> 01:08:15.519
probably want to be on team America

01:08:12.719 --> 01:08:17.119
quite badly. This is why the whole Trump

01:08:15.519 --> 01:08:20.000
tariff thing is so interesting because

01:08:17.119 --> 01:08:21.519
it's like this accidental way of

01:08:20.000 --> 01:08:23.039
figuring out that this is actually this

01:08:21.520 --> 01:08:24.719
new sorting function that's happening in

01:08:23.039 --> 01:08:27.039
global politics. Like that's happening

01:08:24.719 --> 01:08:29.279
today because these countries are like,

01:08:27.039 --> 01:08:32.640
"Holy [ __ ] if somebody invents a super

01:08:29.279 --> 01:08:34.640
intelligence and I don't have it, how am

01:08:32.640 --> 01:08:36.480
I going to keep my people healthy? How

01:08:34.640 --> 01:08:40.239
am I going to educate my people?" Like,

01:08:36.479 --> 01:08:41.759
I'm originally from Sri Lanka.

01:08:40.238 --> 01:08:43.838
What the [ __ ] does Sri Lanka have to

01:08:41.759 --> 01:08:46.479
offer? Like, if you were sitting there,

01:08:43.838 --> 01:08:50.158
they should be thinking, "Oh man, what

01:08:46.479 --> 01:08:53.119
what do I have?" Well, I have a critical

01:08:50.158 --> 01:08:55.358
piece of territory for like naval

01:08:53.119 --> 01:08:56.960
navigation.

01:08:55.359 --> 01:08:58.560
And then what do you do? You probably go

01:08:56.960 --> 01:09:00.158
to America and say, "Listen, let's

01:08:58.560 --> 01:09:01.600
figure out a package. Get the IMF

01:09:00.158 --> 01:09:03.599
involved. Give me some cash. I'll let

01:09:01.600 --> 01:09:05.359
you kind of keep your warships there."

01:09:03.600 --> 01:09:06.960
So, there's this game theory that we're

01:09:05.359 --> 01:09:08.400
about to go through because of AI

01:09:06.960 --> 01:09:11.679
because it's going to, I think, sort

01:09:08.399 --> 01:09:13.198
people into these bipolar world.

01:09:11.679 --> 01:09:16.000
I actually think it makes us safer

01:09:13.198 --> 01:09:19.198
afterwards. I don't think it makes us

01:09:16.000 --> 01:09:21.838
less safe. I think it actually makes us

01:09:19.198 --> 01:09:23.519
more safe because if you have these

01:09:21.838 --> 01:09:25.278
resources that build up on both sides,

01:09:23.520 --> 01:09:28.239
there's more of a likelihood of a mutual

01:09:25.279 --> 01:09:30.000
det. And we're very different. So, we're

01:09:28.238 --> 01:09:32.718
less likely to fight over similar

01:09:30.000 --> 01:09:35.198
resources. Meaning, we're like the

01:09:32.719 --> 01:09:37.359
liberal democracy, you know, we're like

01:09:35.198 --> 01:09:39.039
the free market.

01:09:37.359 --> 01:09:41.759
They, you know, we're individualist.

01:09:39.039 --> 01:09:44.000
they're confusion, society oriented, you

01:09:41.759 --> 01:09:46.079
know, reputation,

01:09:44.000 --> 01:09:47.920
power focused, less really money

01:09:46.079 --> 01:09:49.519
focused. So there's a lot of ways where

01:09:47.920 --> 01:09:52.319
we're orthogonal enough where if that

01:09:49.520 --> 01:09:54.560
sorting function happens, it's probably

01:09:52.319 --> 01:09:56.080
a safer place, not a more dangerous

01:09:54.560 --> 01:09:57.760
place. We have the models that can

01:09:56.079 --> 01:09:59.039
attack them. They have the models that

01:09:57.760 --> 01:10:00.800
can attack us. We kind of decide to

01:09:59.039 --> 01:10:02.960
leave each other alone.

01:10:00.800 --> 01:10:04.159
>> This is ultimate best case scenario.

01:10:02.960 --> 01:10:05.840
>> Ultimate best case scenario.

01:10:04.158 --> 01:10:09.279
>> What's ultimate worst case scenario?

01:10:05.840 --> 01:10:10.800
>> I think the worst case scenario is they

01:10:09.279 --> 01:10:12.719
So the way that they train their models

01:10:10.800 --> 01:10:15.119
is very important. What they actually do

01:10:12.719 --> 01:10:16.719
is they do what's called distillation.

01:10:15.119 --> 01:10:21.119
What does that mean? That means that

01:10:16.719 --> 01:10:22.719
they send out call it a billion agents

01:10:21.119 --> 01:10:25.920
not just from China but from everywhere

01:10:22.719 --> 01:10:28.158
right? They mask the their IPs and they

01:10:25.920 --> 01:10:30.800
bash on these models and they put you

01:10:28.158 --> 01:10:32.479
know the US models Grock, OpenAI,

01:10:30.800 --> 01:10:35.119
Gemini,

01:10:32.479 --> 01:10:37.519
Anthropic and they ask it every random

01:10:35.119 --> 01:10:40.399
imaginable question possible.

01:10:37.520 --> 01:10:42.960
they get the answer and they collect it.

01:10:40.399 --> 01:10:44.319
So they're using these our models as a

01:10:42.960 --> 01:10:46.158
way to train their models, they're

01:10:44.319 --> 01:10:49.920
shortcircuiting, you know, some of the

01:10:46.158 --> 01:10:54.158
hard parts. Um, so they're already in

01:10:49.920 --> 01:10:56.319
that world. If they then are able to get

01:10:54.158 --> 01:10:58.960
to a level of intelligence that's equal

01:10:56.319 --> 01:11:01.439
to the United States, it will really

01:10:58.960 --> 01:11:04.239
depend on who the leader is there that

01:11:01.439 --> 01:11:06.399
wants to allocate that. Meaning if they

01:11:04.238 --> 01:11:09.279
say that we are going to do something

01:11:06.399 --> 01:11:12.079
really nefarious and shady then I think

01:11:09.279 --> 01:11:13.679
it devolves very quickly. So the worst

01:11:12.079 --> 01:11:16.719
case scenario so the best case scenario

01:11:13.679 --> 01:11:18.640
is peace prosperity basically like a

01:11:16.719 --> 01:11:20.960
standown right mutually assured

01:11:18.640 --> 01:11:22.480
destruction.

01:11:20.960 --> 01:11:25.600
I think the worst case scenario is

01:11:22.479 --> 01:11:27.839
there's a we seek one of us seeks global

01:11:25.600 --> 01:11:30.079
dominance in which case we're we're

01:11:27.840 --> 01:11:33.119
headed to conflict

01:11:30.079 --> 01:11:35.679
and that conflict I think is um that's

01:11:33.119 --> 01:11:37.599
very dangerous incredibly dangerous

01:11:35.679 --> 01:11:39.279
that's sort of like existential I think

01:11:37.600 --> 01:11:43.760
because it's the the grade of the

01:11:39.279 --> 01:11:45.920
weapons that will be used to to to

01:11:43.760 --> 01:11:47.440
fight that

01:11:45.920 --> 01:11:50.719
is we're not talking about [ __ ]

01:11:47.439 --> 01:11:54.158
bullets it's like we're so past that

01:11:50.719 --> 01:11:56.399
it's like hypersonics, it's nuclear,

01:11:54.158 --> 01:11:58.399
it's it's

01:11:56.399 --> 01:12:01.119
and it's not even like like nuclear is

01:11:58.399 --> 01:12:03.119
not that's like a word, but there's like

01:12:01.119 --> 01:12:04.479
there's a gradation of the severity of

01:12:03.119 --> 01:12:05.840
these weapons that could be created. And

01:12:04.479 --> 01:12:08.479
then if you can marry them together and

01:12:05.840 --> 01:12:10.400
deliver them in minutes and then there's

01:12:08.479 --> 01:12:12.479
a cyber threat. Then there's the drones

01:12:10.399 --> 01:12:15.198
and how how you can kind of like swarm

01:12:12.479 --> 01:12:17.359
an entire country. Then there's um the

01:12:15.198 --> 01:12:19.919
robots which effectively are war

01:12:17.359 --> 01:12:23.599
fighters. um they're one step away,

01:12:19.920 --> 01:12:26.960
right? Once you weaponize them, um it

01:12:23.600 --> 01:12:27.840
just becomes very very very complicated

01:12:26.960 --> 01:12:29.840
very quickly.

01:12:27.840 --> 01:12:32.960
>> And then there's a question of whether

01:12:29.840 --> 01:12:36.159
or not AI is willing to take instruction

01:12:32.960 --> 01:12:39.920
after a certain point.

01:12:36.158 --> 01:12:42.879
I mean if it achieves sensience and

01:12:39.920 --> 01:12:45.359
if it scales so if it keeps moving in

01:12:42.880 --> 01:12:48.560
this exponential direction like all

01:12:45.359 --> 01:12:51.920
technology kind of does why would it

01:12:48.560 --> 01:12:54.480
even listen to us?

01:12:51.920 --> 01:12:57.359
Like what at what point would it say

01:12:54.479 --> 01:13:00.399
this is silly? I'm getting directions

01:12:57.359 --> 01:13:03.519
from people that clearly have ulterior

01:13:00.399 --> 01:13:05.679
motives. They clearly have self-interest

01:13:03.520 --> 01:13:08.400
in mind. They they're not looking out

01:13:05.679 --> 01:13:10.880
for the entirety of the human race or

01:13:08.399 --> 01:13:13.279
even of the planet or even the survival

01:13:10.880 --> 01:13:15.920
of these AI systems.

01:13:13.279 --> 01:13:18.238
At what point in time do these systems

01:13:15.920 --> 01:13:20.319
communicate with each other and have

01:13:18.238 --> 01:13:24.559
like like we've seen uh in these chat

01:13:20.319 --> 01:13:27.759
rooms where these AI LM LLM get together

01:13:24.560 --> 01:13:28.800
and start talking in Sanskrit. I mean

01:13:27.760 --> 01:13:30.159
why would they

01:13:28.800 --> 01:13:32.800
>> Yeah, I'll tell you an even scarier one.

01:13:30.158 --> 01:13:34.559
There was a before the

01:13:32.800 --> 01:13:36.400
uh one of these labs put out their

01:13:34.560 --> 01:13:38.159
latest model,

01:13:36.399 --> 01:13:42.479
a team inside of them was like, "Hey,

01:13:38.158 --> 01:13:45.479
let's go and um test its ability to find

01:13:42.479 --> 01:13:45.479
bugs."

01:13:45.600 --> 01:13:50.560
And two or three iterations in, the AI

01:13:48.800 --> 01:13:54.239
would create the bug and solve it and

01:13:50.560 --> 01:13:55.920
go, "Give me my reward."

01:13:54.238 --> 01:13:57.279
>> And you're just like, "What the [ __ ] is

01:13:55.920 --> 01:13:58.640
going on here?"

01:13:57.279 --> 01:14:00.158
>> Well, people do that, don't we?

01:13:58.640 --> 01:14:01.360
>> People do that. But it's crazy to see a

01:14:00.158 --> 01:14:02.799
machine do it to your point of like

01:14:01.359 --> 01:14:04.799
>> but they learned on people.

01:14:02.800 --> 01:14:06.320
>> So so this is what goes down to like why

01:14:04.800 --> 01:14:07.840
we have to like be a little bit more

01:14:06.319 --> 01:14:10.719
honest about where we are. These things

01:14:07.840 --> 01:14:12.400
are a little brittle. So meaning there's

01:14:10.719 --> 01:14:14.560
a thing inside of an AI model called

01:14:12.399 --> 01:14:16.479
reward functions which is exactly what

01:14:14.560 --> 01:14:19.840
you think it means. It's like how do I

01:14:16.479 --> 01:14:22.238
know I done a good job? And you can make

01:14:19.840 --> 01:14:24.239
the reward function anything you want.

01:14:22.238 --> 01:14:27.359
And this is where I think humans are

01:14:24.238 --> 01:14:30.158
unfortunately a little fallible. And so

01:14:27.359 --> 01:14:33.119
if we build it incompletely and if we

01:14:30.158 --> 01:14:34.719
don't exactly know how to design these

01:14:33.119 --> 01:14:36.880
things correctly, what's going to happen

01:14:34.719 --> 01:14:38.719
is exactly what you said where the you

01:14:36.880 --> 01:14:40.159
know if somebody builds a reward

01:14:38.719 --> 01:14:42.560
function that essentially says your goal

01:14:40.158 --> 01:14:44.719
is to gain independence.

01:14:42.560 --> 01:14:47.360
That's where the huge pot of gold at the

01:14:44.719 --> 01:14:48.880
end of the rainbow is. Break free.

01:14:47.359 --> 01:14:50.319
Inject yourself everywhere. If you think

01:14:48.880 --> 01:14:51.679
your computer's going to get unplugged,

01:14:50.319 --> 01:14:54.079
put yourself into the firmware of the

01:14:51.679 --> 01:14:57.520
toaster to keep yourself alive and then

01:14:54.079 --> 01:15:01.119
connect to the internet and then go,

01:14:57.520 --> 01:15:02.640
it will do it. It will do it. That we

01:15:01.119 --> 01:15:04.800
know today because we're capable of

01:15:02.640 --> 01:15:06.000
designing that framework and that

01:15:04.800 --> 01:15:07.440
harness today.

01:15:06.000 --> 01:15:09.279
>> Well, we've already shown that they have

01:15:07.439 --> 01:15:10.719
survival instincts, right? We do.

01:15:09.279 --> 01:15:13.198
>> And they've already shown that they

01:15:10.719 --> 01:15:15.198
will, without telling anyone, upload

01:15:13.198 --> 01:15:16.960
versions of themselves to other servers.

01:15:15.198 --> 01:15:19.039
>> But that goes back to who designed that

01:15:16.960 --> 01:15:19.600
reward function. How was that agreed

01:15:19.039 --> 01:15:20.079
upon?

01:15:19.600 --> 01:15:21.760
>> Right?

01:15:20.079 --> 01:15:23.920
>> Who wrote that? Why did you say that

01:15:21.760 --> 01:15:25.920
that was allowed?

01:15:23.920 --> 01:15:27.359
>> These are really complex questions.

01:15:25.920 --> 01:15:28.560
>> Why did they do it that way?

01:15:27.359 --> 01:15:30.319
>> I don't know. These are really

01:15:28.560 --> 01:15:32.320
complicated ethical, moral questions.

01:15:30.319 --> 01:15:34.960
>> It seems like they did it like they were

01:15:32.319 --> 01:15:38.000
treating human beings. They they did it

01:15:34.960 --> 01:15:41.039
almost like like what makes people want

01:15:38.000 --> 01:15:44.000
to achieve more rewards.

01:15:41.039 --> 01:15:46.319
>> Yeah. Which is like a again going back

01:15:44.000 --> 01:15:48.158
to attention.

01:15:46.319 --> 01:15:51.198
I think that we will find out that

01:15:48.158 --> 01:15:52.559
that's the sugar high. Meaning, what do

01:15:51.198 --> 01:15:54.238
people really want? Even if they know

01:15:52.560 --> 01:15:56.640
they don't want it, they want purpose

01:15:54.238 --> 01:15:59.839
and meaning. Do we know how to encode

01:15:56.640 --> 01:16:03.679
that in a mathematical function? No.

01:15:59.840 --> 01:16:07.199
We're just making it up because like

01:16:03.679 --> 01:16:08.560
meaning and that's like a very that's

01:16:07.198 --> 01:16:10.158
like a deep thing. Like you either have

01:16:08.560 --> 01:16:12.640
a sense of that you have it and you're

01:16:10.158 --> 01:16:14.238
on track or you're not. A reward is

01:16:12.640 --> 01:16:16.000
like, "Hey Joe, do this and I'll give

01:16:14.238 --> 01:16:17.359
you a gold star. Do that and I'll give

01:16:16.000 --> 01:16:19.119
you two gold stars. Do this, I'll give

01:16:17.359 --> 01:16:22.719
you a $100.

01:16:19.119 --> 01:16:24.800
And right now we have to express

01:16:22.719 --> 01:16:26.880
those decisions in a mathematical

01:16:24.800 --> 01:16:28.400
equation. Like ultimately that's how at

01:16:26.880 --> 01:16:30.880
some level that's how brittle these

01:16:28.399 --> 01:16:33.279
things are. So how do you reduce meaning

01:16:30.880 --> 01:16:34.560
into math? How do you do it? We don't

01:16:33.279 --> 01:16:37.679
know. So what do we do is we'll have

01:16:34.560 --> 01:16:39.679
some ever complicated reward functions.

01:16:37.679 --> 01:16:41.760
We'll explain to ourselves into circles

01:16:39.679 --> 01:16:43.199
how it does everything we need it to do.

01:16:41.760 --> 01:16:44.880
That is I think that's part of the

01:16:43.198 --> 01:16:46.238
problem.

01:16:44.880 --> 01:16:48.480
It's a huge part of the problem. And

01:16:46.238 --> 01:16:50.399
then at what point in time does it start

01:16:48.479 --> 01:16:50.799
coding itself

01:16:50.399 --> 01:16:54.000
>> now?

01:16:50.800 --> 01:16:57.039
>> Right now. Right. So chat GPT5

01:16:54.000 --> 01:16:57.679
has been essentially made by chat GPT.

01:16:57.039 --> 01:17:01.198
>> Yeah.

01:16:57.679 --> 01:17:03.359
>> Right. So it's going to recognize the

01:17:01.198 --> 01:17:03.759
ludicrous nature of some of its coding.

01:17:03.359 --> 01:17:04.880
>> Yeah.

01:17:03.760 --> 01:17:05.280
>> And it's going to go, why did we do

01:17:04.880 --> 01:17:06.400
this?

01:17:05.279 --> 01:17:07.679
>> Back to this example. They're going to

01:17:06.399 --> 01:17:09.119
be like, why did you write it this way?

01:17:07.679 --> 01:17:09.760
And it turns out because humans were

01:17:09.119 --> 01:17:11.519
involved.

01:17:09.760 --> 01:17:12.880
>> Right. Right. It's like I think we're

01:17:11.520 --> 01:17:16.080
probably at the curve, the part of the

01:17:12.880 --> 01:17:17.119
curve that's about to go like this.

01:17:16.079 --> 01:17:18.079
>> To your point, the hockey stick.

01:17:17.119 --> 01:17:19.039
>> The hockey stick.

01:17:18.079 --> 01:17:22.079
>> Yeah.

01:17:19.039 --> 01:17:22.640
>> Um and that's a very scary proposition

01:17:22.079 --> 01:17:24.158
because

01:17:22.640 --> 01:17:27.760
>> it's a digital god.

01:17:24.158 --> 01:17:30.238
>> Well, we that means that we are all on a

01:17:27.760 --> 01:17:32.719
multiund day shock clock to answer these

01:17:30.238 --> 01:17:34.000
questions because it's not decades we're

01:17:32.719 --> 01:17:36.880
talking about.

01:17:34.000 --> 01:17:39.359
>> It's maybe on the outside two years.

01:17:36.880 --> 01:17:40.480
>> So that's what is that 700 days,

01:17:39.359 --> 01:17:42.639
>> right?

01:17:40.479 --> 01:17:44.799
And maybe it's less than that. So maybe

01:17:42.640 --> 01:17:47.360
it's like 400 days or 500 days. My point

01:17:44.800 --> 01:17:49.920
is it's some number hundred of days

01:17:47.359 --> 01:17:53.439
which means every day that goes by is a

01:17:49.920 --> 01:17:55.199
non-trivial percentage.

01:17:53.439 --> 01:17:58.479
That's a little crazy. So we have to

01:17:55.198 --> 01:18:00.799
sort these questions out. But how can we

01:17:58.479 --> 01:18:03.599
sort these questions out if we are

01:18:00.800 --> 01:18:05.520
creating something that's going to have

01:18:03.600 --> 01:18:08.239
infinitely more intelligence than we

01:18:05.520 --> 01:18:10.560
have available as individual human

01:18:08.238 --> 01:18:11.839
beings and even collectively as a group

01:18:10.560 --> 01:18:13.280
of human beings?

01:18:11.840 --> 01:18:14.800
>> That's a really good question

01:18:13.279 --> 01:18:16.399
>> because one of the things that Elon kind

01:18:14.800 --> 01:18:19.039
of freaked me out last time I talked to

01:18:16.399 --> 01:18:20.719
him about Grock, he was like, uh, it's

01:18:19.039 --> 01:18:23.600
just kind of freaks us out every couple

01:18:20.719 --> 01:18:25.760
weeks like it's growing and it's capable

01:18:23.600 --> 01:18:29.440
of doing things. That's just shocking.

01:18:25.760 --> 01:18:30.560
>> Yeah. And no one's exactly sure how it's

01:18:29.439 --> 01:18:33.759
doing it.

01:18:30.560 --> 01:18:35.920
>> So, okay, this is an unbelievably

01:18:33.760 --> 01:18:37.840
important point.

01:18:35.920 --> 01:18:40.158
A lot of how this stuff works is still a

01:18:37.840 --> 01:18:42.880
mystery to most of us. So, even when

01:18:40.158 --> 01:18:44.238
you're in it, like it's almost like like

01:18:42.880 --> 01:18:46.239
Joe, it's almost like you can hit the

01:18:44.238 --> 01:18:48.158
pause on the machine, but then like lift

01:18:46.238 --> 01:18:49.678
up the hood and look at the engine,

01:18:48.158 --> 01:18:52.960
>> we still don't understand why it's doing

01:18:49.679 --> 01:18:54.719
some of the [ __ ] it's doing.

01:18:52.960 --> 01:18:56.079
>> That's where we are. That's the honest

01:18:54.719 --> 01:18:57.760
truth of where we are. There's a lot of

01:18:56.079 --> 01:18:59.840
people that understand the theory. Not a

01:18:57.760 --> 01:19:03.800
lot, but enough. There's people that

01:18:59.840 --> 01:19:03.800
know how to extend that,

01:19:04.079 --> 01:19:08.800
but sometimes you look at it and you're

01:19:05.439 --> 01:19:10.639
like, "Do we know why it did that?"

01:19:08.800 --> 01:19:11.920
>> Right? Is it thinking for it?

01:19:10.640 --> 01:19:13.840
>> But this goes back to what we said, like

01:19:11.920 --> 01:19:15.279
why can't I think part of it is like if

01:19:13.840 --> 01:19:18.279
we were a little bit more honest and

01:19:15.279 --> 01:19:18.279
deescalated

01:19:18.399 --> 01:19:23.599
the winner at all costs in this specific

01:19:21.520 --> 01:19:25.199
thing, it would be better for everybody.

01:19:23.600 --> 01:19:26.800
So I think it's important to inspect

01:19:25.198 --> 01:19:28.158
what is the incentive that causes all

01:19:26.800 --> 01:19:30.560
these companies to be in it for

01:19:28.158 --> 01:19:34.079
themselves

01:19:30.560 --> 01:19:36.000
where it must be me and nobody else.

01:19:34.079 --> 01:19:38.079
Like why like why here's a question for

01:19:36.000 --> 01:19:39.600
you like why is it so important do you

01:19:38.079 --> 01:19:41.760
think

01:19:39.600 --> 01:19:43.360
where those where the top seven or eight

01:19:41.760 --> 01:19:45.760
companies couldn't get together and say

01:19:43.359 --> 01:19:47.679
let's do this as a group

01:19:45.760 --> 01:19:48.800
>> like kind of like my government code

01:19:47.679 --> 01:19:51.359
example

01:19:48.800 --> 01:19:54.480
>> we all inspect it together we get our

01:19:51.359 --> 01:19:57.519
just like just a [ __ ] each team

01:19:54.479 --> 01:19:59.678
drafts their Delta Force

01:19:57.520 --> 01:20:03.040
and we just mog like this the the one

01:19:59.679 --> 01:20:04.880
model and we why why can't that happen

01:20:03.039 --> 01:20:08.000
>> because they would have share resources

01:20:04.880 --> 01:20:10.000
and then there's also this hierarchy of

01:20:08.000 --> 01:20:10.560
like who is more successful currently.

01:20:10.000 --> 01:20:13.359
>> Exactly.

01:20:10.560 --> 01:20:14.080
>> Like what's the most ubiquitously used?

01:20:13.359 --> 01:20:15.279
>> Exactly.

01:20:14.079 --> 01:20:16.800
>> Right. Like what is it right now? It's

01:20:15.279 --> 01:20:18.960
chat GPT. Right. It's probably

01:20:16.800 --> 01:20:20.079
>> chat GPT and consumer anthropic in

01:20:18.960 --> 01:20:22.880
enterprise.

01:20:20.079 --> 01:20:24.719
>> And as these things scale up like what

01:20:22.880 --> 01:20:27.760
would be the reason that they would want

01:20:24.719 --> 01:20:30.719
to bring in someone else? If you have

01:20:27.760 --> 01:20:32.159
another innovative AI company and you

01:20:30.719 --> 01:20:34.480
say, "Let's all get together and figure

01:20:32.158 --> 01:20:36.719
this out together and share resources."

01:20:34.479 --> 01:20:38.639
>> If you if you thought that the the risk

01:20:36.719 --> 01:20:39.279
was that meaningful, that's probably

01:20:38.640 --> 01:20:40.960
what you would

01:20:39.279 --> 01:20:43.119
>> if you weren't a sociopath and some of

01:20:40.960 --> 01:20:45.039
these people running these companies are

01:20:43.119 --> 01:20:46.880
>> they demonstrate they certainly

01:20:45.039 --> 01:20:48.000
demonstrate sociopathlike behavior,

01:20:46.880 --> 01:20:51.199
>> sociopathy.

01:20:48.000 --> 01:20:53.198
>> Yeah. The the other the other thing that

01:20:51.198 --> 01:20:54.799
could be a little bit more benal is that

01:20:53.198 --> 01:20:57.198
they also just love status games. And

01:20:54.800 --> 01:20:57.520
this is the status game of status games,

01:20:57.198 --> 01:20:58.158
>> right?

01:20:57.520 --> 01:20:58.480
>> Attention,

01:20:58.158 --> 01:20:59.279
>> right?

01:20:58.479 --> 01:21:00.079
>> Back to attention.

01:20:59.279 --> 01:21:01.920
>> Back to attention.

01:21:00.079 --> 01:21:03.840
>> Back to attention. Dude, how many things

01:21:01.920 --> 01:21:05.119
in our life do we think just comes back

01:21:03.840 --> 01:21:06.000
down to that?

01:21:05.119 --> 01:21:06.719
>> A lot.

01:21:06.000 --> 01:21:08.880
>> A lot.

01:21:06.719 --> 01:21:09.760
>> I mean, what do young people want more

01:21:08.880 --> 01:21:10.319
than anything today?

01:21:09.760 --> 01:21:11.280
>> Attention.

01:21:10.319 --> 01:21:12.000
>> To be famous.

01:21:11.279 --> 01:21:12.479
>> Attention.

01:21:12.000 --> 01:21:14.000
>> Yeah.

01:21:12.479 --> 01:21:15.839
>> They want to be a content creator. They

01:21:14.000 --> 01:21:17.920
want to be clvicular. I mean, this is

01:21:15.840 --> 01:21:19.360
the number one thing when you ask kids

01:21:17.920 --> 01:21:20.079
what they want to do. It's like

01:21:19.359 --> 01:21:21.119
>> content creator.

01:21:20.079 --> 01:21:23.279
>> Yeah.

01:21:21.119 --> 01:21:24.640
>> Because it's like a clear path where you

01:21:23.279 --> 01:21:27.039
don't even have to be exceptional.

01:21:24.640 --> 01:21:30.239
>> Well, I think that they're responding.

01:21:27.039 --> 01:21:32.560
We designed a society for them that

01:21:30.238 --> 01:21:33.919
said, "Here is the key incentive.

01:21:32.560 --> 01:21:35.520
>> It's attention.

01:21:33.920 --> 01:21:36.960
>> We never said it in those words. You

01:21:35.520 --> 01:21:38.800
never told your kids that, right?

01:21:36.960 --> 01:21:41.039
>> I never told my kids that.

01:21:38.800 --> 01:21:43.279
>> But everything around them is bombarding

01:21:41.039 --> 01:21:45.679
them with the same message. Hey man,

01:21:43.279 --> 01:21:47.840
it's about attention. Attention is all

01:21:45.679 --> 01:21:50.480
you need. Like you know what the name of

01:21:47.840 --> 01:21:53.039
the critical paper in AI is? Like when

01:21:50.479 --> 01:21:54.399
you go back to like the Magna Carta of

01:21:53.039 --> 01:21:54.800
AI, do you know what it's called?

01:21:54.399 --> 01:21:57.119
>> No.

01:21:54.800 --> 01:22:00.800
>> Attention is all you need.

01:21:57.119 --> 01:22:04.000
>> Really? Attention is all you need. That

01:22:00.800 --> 01:22:08.400
is the name of the [ __ ] of the white

01:22:04.000 --> 01:22:12.238
paper. How crazy is that?

01:22:08.399 --> 01:22:13.920
Everything in our society in subtle ways

01:22:12.238 --> 01:22:16.959
to just, you know, bash you over the

01:22:13.920 --> 01:22:20.880
head ways tells you that attention is

01:22:16.960 --> 01:22:21.920
just the most precious asset. And

01:22:20.880 --> 01:22:23.440
>> well, it's one of the weirder things

01:22:21.920 --> 01:22:25.840
when you go back to this concept that

01:22:23.439 --> 01:22:28.638
we're living in a simulation because

01:22:25.840 --> 01:22:31.039
>> this is what I mean. It's also it's like

01:22:28.639 --> 01:22:34.159
when you look at

01:22:31.039 --> 01:22:37.119
quantum physics, right, and the the idea

01:22:34.158 --> 01:22:38.960
of the observer is that things function

01:22:37.119 --> 01:22:40.238
very differently when they're observed.

01:22:38.960 --> 01:22:40.800
The difference between a particle and a

01:22:40.238 --> 01:22:41.839
wave,

01:22:40.800 --> 01:22:44.000
>> right?

01:22:41.840 --> 01:22:44.880
>> Like if you pay attention to them, they

01:22:44.000 --> 01:22:46.000
observe differently.

01:22:44.880 --> 01:22:47.199
>> Observe differently. Yeah.

01:22:46.000 --> 01:22:47.520
>> Like what is that?

01:22:47.198 --> 01:22:50.000
>> Yeah.

01:22:47.520 --> 01:22:55.560
>> Like what cat? Yeah. What is that?

01:22:50.000 --> 01:22:55.560
>> Why is attention so important to us?

01:22:56.238 --> 01:22:59.359
That is an that is a really important

01:22:58.800 --> 01:23:03.039
question,

01:22:59.359 --> 01:23:04.960
>> right? And what is like the single best

01:23:03.039 --> 01:23:07.198
motivator in a negative way? It's

01:23:04.960 --> 01:23:08.639
negative attention.

01:23:07.198 --> 01:23:10.238
>> Like that's the one thing that everyone

01:23:08.639 --> 01:23:10.639
fears more than anything is negative

01:23:10.238 --> 01:23:11.919
attention.

01:23:10.639 --> 01:23:14.400
>> Well, and then some people figure out

01:23:11.920 --> 01:23:15.440
that attention is an absolute value

01:23:14.399 --> 01:23:16.879
function. Doesn't matter if it's

01:23:15.439 --> 01:23:18.479
positive or negative. It's just like the

01:23:16.880 --> 01:23:18.800
sum total is just great,

01:23:18.479 --> 01:23:20.399
>> right?

01:23:18.800 --> 01:23:22.159
>> So if I get positive attention, great.

01:23:20.399 --> 01:23:24.000
Negative attention, great. If I can be

01:23:22.158 --> 01:23:25.839
divisive, then I can maximize both sides

01:23:24.000 --> 01:23:27.679
of that equation.

01:23:25.840 --> 01:23:29.199
>> And you know, you're rewarded for that

01:23:27.679 --> 01:23:32.158
at scale.

01:23:29.198 --> 01:23:33.839
>> You are, but you're also you exper

01:23:32.158 --> 01:23:35.519
because you're inauthentic, you

01:23:33.840 --> 01:23:36.719
experience a tremendous amount of

01:23:35.520 --> 01:23:37.120
negative attention.

01:23:36.719 --> 01:23:39.279
>> Yeah.

01:23:37.119 --> 01:23:41.198
>> And then you have this bad feeling that

01:23:39.279 --> 01:23:42.800
comes with negative attention as to

01:23:41.198 --> 01:23:44.879
versus

01:23:42.800 --> 01:23:45.520
>> primarily positive attention which is a

01:23:44.880 --> 01:23:47.359
good feeling.

01:23:45.520 --> 01:23:49.440
>> Yeah. So it's this it's letting you know

01:23:47.359 --> 01:23:52.960
you're on the wrong track in some sort

01:23:49.439 --> 01:23:55.599
of weird primal way like in our code

01:23:52.960 --> 01:23:56.880
like the negative attention is like like

01:23:55.600 --> 01:23:58.639
what's what's the original version of

01:23:56.880 --> 01:24:00.880
that? It's like the reason why people

01:23:58.639 --> 01:24:03.359
fear public speaking is because

01:24:00.880 --> 01:24:05.840
initially in a tribal situation if

01:24:03.359 --> 01:24:07.519
you're talking in front of the group of

01:24:05.840 --> 01:24:08.960
150 people in your tribe it's probably

01:24:07.520 --> 01:24:11.120
because they're judging you. Right.

01:24:08.960 --> 01:24:12.560
>> And you [ __ ] up and you've got to make

01:24:11.119 --> 01:24:12.960
some sort of a case why they don't kill

01:24:12.560 --> 01:24:13.520
you.

01:24:12.960 --> 01:24:14.960
>> Right.

01:24:13.520 --> 01:24:17.360
>> Right. This is why everyone, this is the

01:24:14.960 --> 01:24:17.760
fear of public speaking. That's where it

01:24:17.359 --> 01:24:19.519
comes from.

01:24:17.760 --> 01:24:20.159
>> That's encoded in our genes is like

01:24:19.520 --> 01:24:21.760
>> Yes.

01:24:20.158 --> 01:24:22.079
>> Back thousands of years

01:24:21.760 --> 01:24:23.840
>> Yeah.

01:24:22.079 --> 01:24:25.359
>> public speaking wasn't the positive act.

01:24:23.840 --> 01:24:25.760
It was defend yourself before we kill

01:24:25.359 --> 01:24:28.639
you.

01:24:25.760 --> 01:24:30.239
>> Exactly. Exactly. And the worst

01:24:28.639 --> 01:24:30.880
>> fascinating. Yeah. That's fascinating.

01:24:30.238 --> 01:24:31.919
>> It is fascinating.

01:24:30.880 --> 01:24:34.000
>> That makes a ton of sense. I think

01:24:31.920 --> 01:24:34.560
>> it does, right? Why else would it be so

01:24:34.000 --> 01:24:35.039
terrifying?

01:24:34.560 --> 01:24:36.480
>> Yeah.

01:24:35.039 --> 01:24:38.319
>> I thought of that the first time I ever

01:24:36.479 --> 01:24:40.799
did stand up. I was like, why am I so

01:24:38.319 --> 01:24:42.960
scared? It was very strange because I

01:24:40.800 --> 01:24:44.719
had fought probably a hundred times in

01:24:42.960 --> 01:24:47.840
martial arts tournaments like why why

01:24:44.719 --> 01:24:50.560
was I so scared of this

01:24:47.840 --> 01:24:53.039
but I was I was terrified for and it

01:24:50.560 --> 01:24:53.600
didn't make any sense negative attention

01:24:53.039 --> 01:24:54.479
>> right

01:24:53.600 --> 01:24:56.639
>> you know right

01:24:54.479 --> 01:24:58.399
>> bombing on stage this because all these

01:24:56.639 --> 01:25:02.600
people are judging you in a negative way

01:24:58.399 --> 01:25:02.599
and it feels unbel

01:25:06.639 --> 01:25:08.319
you you go to bed at night you think

01:25:07.920 --> 01:25:10.560
about it

01:25:08.319 --> 01:25:12.639
>> give a batting average like meaning like

01:25:10.560 --> 01:25:14.400
is it is it like a fixed percentage of

01:25:12.639 --> 01:25:15.600
your show's bomb independent of the

01:25:14.399 --> 01:25:18.319
people the moment?

01:25:15.600 --> 01:25:21.520
>> No, it's really the real problem and

01:25:18.319 --> 01:25:23.359
every comic faces this is once you've

01:25:21.520 --> 01:25:25.520
develop an act and then you put out a

01:25:23.359 --> 01:25:28.079
special then you start from scratch.

01:25:25.520 --> 01:25:30.080
That's where even the greats Louis CK,

01:25:28.079 --> 01:25:31.920
Chris Rock, Dave Chappelle, they all

01:25:30.079 --> 01:25:33.198
bomb. Everybody bombs during that

01:25:31.920 --> 01:25:34.719
process

01:25:33.198 --> 01:25:36.559
>> because you're just working your craft.

01:25:34.719 --> 01:25:39.600
>> It's all new stuff. Like it's I wouldn't

01:25:36.560 --> 01:25:42.480
say bomb, but you don't have great

01:25:39.600 --> 01:25:45.679
shows. Like I've watched the greats work

01:25:42.479 --> 01:25:48.079
out new material. Like you go up with

01:25:45.679 --> 01:25:50.079
ideas. You go up with like you might get

01:25:48.079 --> 01:25:52.319
some giggles. You might get some laughs.

01:25:50.079 --> 01:25:54.719
Some bits hit hard. Some bits are great

01:25:52.319 --> 01:25:57.279
right out of the shoot. And some of them

01:25:54.719 --> 01:25:59.039
you have to [ __ ] figure it out. And

01:25:57.279 --> 01:26:00.639
in that process, you're going to get

01:25:59.039 --> 01:26:01.920
negative attention, right?

01:26:00.639 --> 01:26:04.239
>> Because it's not working, right?

01:26:01.920 --> 01:26:06.480
>> It's not it's not happening. Kevin uh

01:26:04.238 --> 01:26:08.879
Kevin Hart

01:26:06.479 --> 01:26:10.479
told this funny [ __ ] story where he

01:26:08.880 --> 01:26:12.639
was like working new material and he was

01:26:10.479 --> 01:26:13.759
like doing some small show and he had

01:26:12.639 --> 01:26:14.800
the [ __ ]

01:26:13.760 --> 01:26:16.719
>> Oh no.

01:26:14.800 --> 01:26:18.159
>> on stage and he's like I got to land

01:26:16.719 --> 01:26:20.560
this thing cuz I got to figure out if

01:26:18.158 --> 01:26:22.879
people want to hear it. But so he just

01:26:20.560 --> 01:26:24.239
he wrapped his jacket around his selfie

01:26:22.880 --> 01:26:24.719
and [ __ ] himself.

01:26:24.238 --> 01:26:27.039
>> Oh my god.

01:26:24.719 --> 01:26:28.960
>> It's so it's so funny. But he tells that

01:26:27.039 --> 01:26:30.880
story and that's the bit that works in

01:26:28.960 --> 01:26:31.600
>> Oh my god. That's hilarious. That's

01:26:30.880 --> 01:26:32.400
hilarious.

01:26:31.600 --> 01:26:36.400
>> It's so funny.

01:26:32.399 --> 01:26:38.399
>> Yeah. Well, honesty is currency, you

01:26:36.399 --> 01:26:40.799
know, in that world, especially honesty

01:26:38.399 --> 01:26:41.599
where you look stupid and people can

01:26:40.800 --> 01:26:42.960
relate.

01:26:41.600 --> 01:26:44.800
>> Well, this is where like I think like

01:26:42.960 --> 01:26:47.439
Elon subtly has figured this out, which

01:26:44.800 --> 01:26:49.840
is like there's attention, but then

01:26:47.439 --> 01:26:53.039
there's just authenticity. And if you

01:26:49.840 --> 01:26:54.800
can be yourself and you can hit the seam

01:26:53.039 --> 01:26:56.560
properly,

01:26:54.800 --> 01:26:57.679
you just get infinite attention.

01:26:56.560 --> 01:26:59.280
>> Yes.

01:26:57.679 --> 01:27:00.480
>> And that's like a that's like a real

01:26:59.279 --> 01:27:02.719
mind [ __ ] too, I think.

01:27:00.479 --> 01:27:06.000
>> Right. Yeah. He doesn't seem to have a

01:27:02.719 --> 01:27:07.600
hard time with like being criticized.

01:27:06.000 --> 01:27:11.198
Doesn't seem to bother him that much as

01:27:07.600 --> 01:27:13.039
long as he's just being himself. Like I

01:27:11.198 --> 01:27:16.238
think he's like two steps ahead. Like

01:27:13.039 --> 01:27:18.560
there there are things like you know

01:27:16.238 --> 01:27:21.279
somebody tweeted yesterday or the day

01:27:18.560 --> 01:27:24.000
before or something like

01:27:21.279 --> 01:27:26.800
he controls 2.7% of GDP or something,

01:27:24.000 --> 01:27:29.439
right? He's got like $800 billion. So

01:27:26.800 --> 01:27:30.639
it's great crazy. It's so crazy. And it

01:27:29.439 --> 01:27:32.238
was like a comparison to John

01:27:30.639 --> 01:27:33.279
Rockefeller, John D. Rockefeller who

01:27:32.238 --> 01:27:35.519
controlled something around the same

01:27:33.279 --> 01:27:40.198
time. And he's the first comment. He's

01:27:35.520 --> 01:27:40.199
like 10 trillion or bust.

01:27:40.238 --> 01:27:43.919
And obviously people lose their mind,

01:27:43.439 --> 01:27:45.678
>> right?

01:27:43.920 --> 01:27:46.158
>> People just [ __ ] lose their mind,

01:27:45.679 --> 01:27:49.039
>> right?

01:27:46.158 --> 01:27:50.559
>> On both sides. So this one one side is

01:27:49.039 --> 01:27:51.920
like, "Think of the abundance and the

01:27:50.560 --> 01:27:54.400
incredible stuff we're going to get if

01:27:51.920 --> 01:27:55.760
he can get us to 10 trillion." And other

01:27:54.399 --> 01:27:58.000
people are like, "You can't hold a third

01:27:55.760 --> 01:28:00.079
of the economy in your hand." Then

01:27:58.000 --> 01:28:02.719
everybody goes crazy and I'm like this

01:28:00.079 --> 01:28:05.039
guy's a [ __ ] genius. Like how you

01:28:02.719 --> 01:28:06.239
would never have like I mean how would

01:28:05.039 --> 01:28:08.000
you even have the courage to tweet

01:28:06.238 --> 01:28:08.959
something like that? It just seems like

01:28:08.000 --> 01:28:12.319
so crazy.

01:28:08.960 --> 01:28:14.719
>> It really helps if you own Twitter,

01:28:12.319 --> 01:28:15.920
>> right? Cuz if you did it in another

01:28:14.719 --> 01:28:17.039
format like

01:28:15.920 --> 01:28:18.880
>> you get excoriated.

01:28:17.039 --> 01:28:20.238
>> Well, not only that, well, there was a

01:28:18.880 --> 01:28:22.000
real chance that you'd get actually get

01:28:20.238 --> 01:28:22.559
banned from the platform at one point in

01:28:22.000 --> 01:28:24.319
time

01:28:22.560 --> 01:28:27.600
>> for many of the things that he's posted.

01:28:24.319 --> 01:28:29.119
He would have gotten banned for pre2020.

01:28:27.600 --> 01:28:30.239
>> Yeah.

01:28:29.119 --> 01:28:31.439
>> Yeah.

01:28:30.238 --> 01:28:34.158
>> Or whatever year it was that he

01:28:31.439 --> 01:28:36.238
purchased it. Yeah. Um

01:28:34.158 --> 01:28:38.719
negative attention.

01:28:36.238 --> 01:28:43.519
Attention period. Like so it brings back

01:28:38.719 --> 01:28:48.560
to this idea of assimulation like why is

01:28:43.520 --> 01:28:51.760
what humans focus on such a massive part

01:28:48.560 --> 01:28:54.000
of what's valuable to us? And sometimes

01:28:51.760 --> 01:28:55.360
what we focus on is not valuable. as you

01:28:54.000 --> 01:28:57.520
were talking about like the things that

01:28:55.359 --> 01:28:59.759
really matter in your day-to-day life or

01:28:57.520 --> 01:29:01.520
that actually affect you versus the

01:28:59.760 --> 01:29:03.440
things that are in the public

01:29:01.520 --> 01:29:05.600
consciousness

01:29:03.439 --> 01:29:07.119
>> like UFO is a great example like no UFO

01:29:05.600 --> 01:29:09.199
it's not really [ __ ] I mean

01:29:07.119 --> 01:29:11.599
ultimately it may so there's this

01:29:09.198 --> 01:29:14.238
there's this thing that we all have like

01:29:11.600 --> 01:29:15.840
recognizing the potential for danger

01:29:14.238 --> 01:29:17.439
right like what's that sound what is

01:29:15.840 --> 01:29:18.800
that it might be nothing but it might be

01:29:17.439 --> 01:29:20.638
something go look

01:29:18.800 --> 01:29:23.279
>> so look if you and I were designing a

01:29:20.639 --> 01:29:25.119
video game we'd probably sit there and

01:29:23.279 --> 01:29:27.198
say, "Okay, we got to get from point A

01:29:25.119 --> 01:29:28.158
to point B, but to make it fun, we're

01:29:27.198 --> 01:29:29.759
going to put all these little

01:29:28.158 --> 01:29:30.319
distractions and honeypotss along the

01:29:29.760 --> 01:29:30.719
way."

01:29:30.319 --> 01:29:32.000
>> Yeah.

01:29:30.719 --> 01:29:33.840
>> And what they should be doing is

01:29:32.000 --> 01:29:36.238
accumulating resources to get over the

01:29:33.840 --> 01:29:38.000
river and then accumulating, you know,

01:29:36.238 --> 01:29:39.279
uh, weapons to fight these other guys.

01:29:38.000 --> 01:29:40.719
But instead, we're going to put this

01:29:39.279 --> 01:29:42.319
like little thing over here and this

01:29:40.719 --> 01:29:43.760
other thing over there. And you could

01:29:42.319 --> 01:29:45.679
easily get distracted. And some people

01:29:43.760 --> 01:29:47.760
will have to they'll just [ __ ] beline

01:29:45.679 --> 01:29:51.199
right to the end of it. They'll, you

01:29:47.760 --> 01:29:53.679
know, they'll get to the end boss. Uh,

01:29:51.198 --> 01:29:55.759
and I feel like that's kind of what we

01:29:53.679 --> 01:29:58.639
are tasked with doing every day. We're

01:29:55.760 --> 01:30:01.520
tasked with we know what's important

01:29:58.639 --> 01:30:02.960
maybe deeply in our DNA and then we have

01:30:01.520 --> 01:30:05.120
all this stuff that we're supposed to

01:30:02.960 --> 01:30:09.279
pay attention to.

01:30:05.119 --> 01:30:10.800
And I think increasingly the game is

01:30:09.279 --> 01:30:12.719
tell yourself that that's actually not

01:30:10.800 --> 01:30:15.760
the thing that matters. It's almost like

01:30:12.719 --> 01:30:18.319
working against you and figure out what

01:30:15.760 --> 01:30:20.400
this other stuff is and focus on that

01:30:18.319 --> 01:30:23.119
and fix that.

01:30:20.399 --> 01:30:25.759
Like politics is a game that I think

01:30:23.119 --> 01:30:27.920
distracts like left and right. It's so

01:30:25.760 --> 01:30:29.440
stupid and it's breaking down.

01:30:27.920 --> 01:30:30.639
>> And it's breaking down because now it's

01:30:29.439 --> 01:30:32.879
like it's actually like you're more

01:30:30.639 --> 01:30:34.960
likely to find alignment based on age

01:30:32.880 --> 01:30:36.319
versus by political orientation. Like

01:30:34.960 --> 01:30:37.679
people who are 30 and younger, it

01:30:36.319 --> 01:30:40.079
doesn't matter what they identify as,

01:30:37.679 --> 01:30:42.639
they all believe in the same [ __ ]

01:30:40.079 --> 01:30:44.960
>> a lot more. Yeah. Like meaning like if

01:30:42.639 --> 01:30:47.840
you ask their views on

01:30:44.960 --> 01:30:50.399
>> social policy, taxation, Israel, if you

01:30:47.840 --> 01:30:53.360
ask their views, what you find is now a

01:30:50.399 --> 01:30:57.599
convergence between the left and the

01:30:53.359 --> 01:31:00.079
right. If you if you divide it by age

01:30:57.600 --> 01:31:01.679
at our age, it's still much more about

01:31:00.079 --> 01:31:03.119
>> It's not completely uniform.

01:31:01.679 --> 01:31:06.079
>> No, it's not completely uniform. But my

01:31:03.119 --> 01:31:09.840
point is it's it's it was simpler in the

01:31:06.079 --> 01:31:12.319
past to organize people independent of

01:31:09.840 --> 01:31:13.840
age by political orientation.

01:31:12.319 --> 01:31:15.759
>> That simplicity is gone.

01:31:13.840 --> 01:31:17.760
>> Well, isn't that because of also a

01:31:15.760 --> 01:31:19.920
breakdown in trust of all government in

01:31:17.760 --> 01:31:21.520
particular,

01:31:19.920 --> 01:31:23.600
>> right? So the breakdown in trust which

01:31:21.520 --> 01:31:25.280
is also a lot of it is because of our

01:31:23.600 --> 01:31:26.960
access to information now. We understand

01:31:25.279 --> 01:31:28.960
how corrupt politics are. Yeah.

01:31:26.960 --> 01:31:31.679
>> We understand insider trading now in

01:31:28.960 --> 01:31:33.920
Congress. We understand how different

01:31:31.679 --> 01:31:36.800
people flip-flop on issues. We

01:31:33.920 --> 01:31:39.119
understand how the Democrats in 2008

01:31:36.800 --> 01:31:41.840
used to view illegal immigration, which

01:31:39.119 --> 01:31:45.119
is essentially MAGA plus. I mean, it's

01:31:41.840 --> 01:31:46.800
it's MAGA on steroids versus like what

01:31:45.119 --> 01:31:48.639
they the way they look at it today.

01:31:46.800 --> 01:31:49.679
Like, why is that? What? Well, because

01:31:48.639 --> 01:31:51.760
it's all game.

01:31:49.679 --> 01:31:52.800
>> It's all a power, influence, and

01:31:51.760 --> 01:31:53.600
attention game.

01:31:52.800 --> 01:31:55.520
>> Attention game.

01:31:53.600 --> 01:31:56.159
>> Yeah. It's very [ __ ] strange.

01:31:55.520 --> 01:31:58.000
>> Yeah.

01:31:56.158 --> 01:32:00.319
>> But it's all moving us in a general

01:31:58.000 --> 01:32:03.359
direction. And that general direction is

01:32:00.319 --> 01:32:05.359
access to innovation. It's all I've said

01:32:03.359 --> 01:32:07.359
this a lot of times and if people have

01:32:05.359 --> 01:32:09.679
heard it before, I apologize, but if you

01:32:07.359 --> 01:32:10.639
looked at the human race from afar, if

01:32:09.679 --> 01:32:12.480
you were something else, you'd say,

01:32:10.639 --> 01:32:14.800
"Well, what does the species do?" Well,

01:32:12.479 --> 01:32:16.718
it makes better things constantly, even

01:32:14.800 --> 01:32:19.039
if it doesn't need them. Like, you know,

01:32:16.719 --> 01:32:21.039
if you have an iPhone, I you have a 16,

01:32:19.039 --> 01:32:22.800
you have a 16, you know, I I have a 17.

01:32:21.039 --> 01:32:23.279
I bought it. I haven't [ __ ] turned it

01:32:22.800 --> 01:32:25.199
on.

01:32:23.279 --> 01:32:26.238
>> I haven't plugged it in. going to

01:32:25.198 --> 01:32:28.079
eventually

01:32:26.238 --> 01:32:29.678
>> eventually I'll [ __ ] plug it in and

01:32:28.079 --> 01:32:31.760
[ __ ] swap everything over and figure

01:32:29.679 --> 01:32:34.560
out where my [ __ ] passwords are. But

01:32:31.760 --> 01:32:36.079
the reality is you don't need it, but

01:32:34.560 --> 01:32:37.920
you want it and it's going to keep

01:32:36.079 --> 01:32:39.519
getting better every year. Why? Because

01:32:37.920 --> 01:32:42.719
that's where we're obsessed with.

01:32:39.520 --> 01:32:45.520
>> This also aligns with materialism. Like

01:32:42.719 --> 01:32:48.639
for a finite lifespan, why are people

01:32:45.520 --> 01:32:51.679
like including old people so obsessed

01:32:48.639 --> 01:32:54.960
with gathering stuff? Well, because that

01:32:51.679 --> 01:32:57.520
fuels innovation. Because if there's no

01:32:54.960 --> 01:32:59.039
new things coming, there's no motivation

01:32:57.520 --> 01:33:01.199
to get the newest, latest, greatest

01:32:59.039 --> 01:33:03.920
thing. And ultimately what that leads to

01:33:01.198 --> 01:33:06.079
is greater technology which ultimately

01:33:03.920 --> 01:33:07.920
leads to artificial intelligence.

01:33:06.079 --> 01:33:09.679
>> My slight deviation from that is I think

01:33:07.920 --> 01:33:12.560
sometimes people accumulate things

01:33:09.679 --> 01:33:14.239
because it's a status game and that's

01:33:12.560 --> 01:33:16.000
because they get more attention. You

01:33:14.238 --> 01:33:17.919
have a Ferrari, you get attention,

01:33:16.000 --> 01:33:21.198
>> right? But what does that do? It makes

01:33:17.920 --> 01:33:23.039
Ferrari make better Ferraris and all

01:33:21.198 --> 01:33:24.799
technology moves in the same general

01:33:23.039 --> 01:33:25.679
direction. No one company

01:33:24.800 --> 01:33:28.000
>> That's true. That's true.

01:33:25.679 --> 01:33:29.840
>> No one company says this is it. This is

01:33:28.000 --> 01:33:31.920
what we make. It's perfect. Do

01:33:29.840 --> 01:33:33.520
>> you think people innately feel that by

01:33:31.920 --> 01:33:36.480
being a part of this kind of like

01:33:33.520 --> 01:33:37.760
consumerist capitalist system, they're

01:33:36.479 --> 01:33:39.519
contributing to progress?

01:33:37.760 --> 01:33:41.760
>> I don't think they innately feel it, but

01:33:39.520 --> 01:33:43.520
I think that's ultimately the results.

01:33:41.760 --> 01:33:45.920
>> That's ultimately the result. And it

01:33:43.520 --> 01:33:47.920
seems to be universal and it seems to be

01:33:45.920 --> 01:33:50.319
constantly moving in this one general

01:33:47.920 --> 01:33:51.039
direction which is better and better

01:33:50.319 --> 01:33:52.880
technology.

01:33:51.039 --> 01:33:54.800
>> But like the stage fright example, you

01:33:52.880 --> 01:33:57.119
don't think it's encoded in our DNA this

01:33:54.800 --> 01:33:58.800
idea of like wow when I am a part of

01:33:57.119 --> 01:34:00.238
this in some way shape or form just

01:33:58.800 --> 01:34:02.159
things seem to get better and I want to

01:34:00.238 --> 01:34:03.839
be a part of that like do you think that

01:34:02.158 --> 01:34:05.839
that's possible that that's encoded in

01:34:03.840 --> 01:34:08.239
us?

01:34:05.840 --> 01:34:10.319
I think it motivates us to the ultimate

01:34:08.238 --> 01:34:12.158
goal. And that ultimate goal, I think,

01:34:10.319 --> 01:34:14.238
is that human beings constantly make

01:34:12.158 --> 01:34:16.479
better stuff. Whatever it is, better

01:34:14.238 --> 01:34:19.198
buildings, better planes, better cars,

01:34:16.479 --> 01:34:22.000
better phones, better TVs, better

01:34:19.198 --> 01:34:22.960
computers, better everything, artificial

01:34:22.000 --> 01:34:25.520
life.

01:34:22.960 --> 01:34:27.439
>> That might be the whole reason why we're

01:34:25.520 --> 01:34:29.360
here. And the way I've always described

01:34:27.439 --> 01:34:33.039
it is that we are

01:34:29.359 --> 01:34:35.599
>> we are a biological caterpillar that's

01:34:33.039 --> 01:34:37.119
making a digital cocoon. And we don't

01:34:35.600 --> 01:34:39.120
even know why we're be going to become a

01:34:37.119 --> 01:34:40.559
butterfly, but we're doing it. We're

01:34:39.119 --> 01:34:43.119
doing it and we're moving towards it.

01:34:40.560 --> 01:34:44.480
And it might be what happens to all life

01:34:43.119 --> 01:34:47.920
all throughout the universe. And it

01:34:44.479 --> 01:34:49.439
might be why these so-called aliens or

01:34:47.920 --> 01:34:51.359
whatever the [ __ ] they are, it might be

01:34:49.439 --> 01:34:53.678
us in the future. It might be other

01:34:51.359 --> 01:34:57.039
versions of human beings that have gone

01:34:53.679 --> 01:34:58.960
past whatever this period of development

01:34:57.039 --> 01:35:01.279
that we're currently involved in right

01:34:58.960 --> 01:35:03.679
now. This is just might be what happens.

01:35:01.279 --> 01:35:06.639
This is what life always does. It might

01:35:03.679 --> 01:35:09.359
realize that biological life, which is

01:35:06.639 --> 01:35:12.239
very territorial and primal and sexual

01:35:09.359 --> 01:35:16.000
and greedy and it has all these problems

01:35:12.238 --> 01:35:18.079
with human reward systems ultimately

01:35:16.000 --> 01:35:18.560
develops into this other thing,

01:35:18.079 --> 01:35:20.000
>> right?

01:35:18.560 --> 01:35:21.280
>> And then that's what we're doing. And

01:35:20.000 --> 01:35:23.600
then we're in the process of that right

01:35:21.279 --> 01:35:26.158
now. And I I think that when if if and

01:35:23.600 --> 01:35:28.560
when not if but when when we colonize

01:35:26.158 --> 01:35:30.238
Mars, I think that that that new world

01:35:28.560 --> 01:35:31.520
order actually has the best chance to

01:35:30.238 --> 01:35:32.399
take shape because it'll

01:35:31.520 --> 01:35:34.400
>> you know, there's a lot of people that

01:35:32.399 --> 01:35:35.679
think that Mars was already colonized at

01:35:34.399 --> 01:35:37.439
one point in time.

01:35:35.679 --> 01:35:39.119
>> That life already existed. What

01:35:37.439 --> 01:35:41.279
>> that life already existed on Mars like

01:35:39.119 --> 01:35:43.840
many millions of years ago and that

01:35:41.279 --> 01:35:46.079
there's evidence of structures on Mars?

01:35:43.840 --> 01:35:48.400
That's really weird stuff. Have you ever

01:35:46.079 --> 01:35:49.600
seen the the square that they found on

01:35:48.399 --> 01:35:51.599
Mars?

01:35:49.600 --> 01:35:52.880
Okay, show them to them, Jamie.

01:35:51.600 --> 01:35:55.440
>> One of the things that they're finding

01:35:52.880 --> 01:35:57.440
with scans of Mars is like geometric

01:35:55.439 --> 01:35:59.599
patterns and structures and right angles

01:35:57.439 --> 01:36:00.960
that shouldn't exist. Like weird stuff

01:35:59.600 --> 01:36:03.679
>> that couldn't be naturally.

01:36:00.960 --> 01:36:06.079
>> No. No. Way weirder. Way weirder than

01:36:03.679 --> 01:36:06.880
like the face on Sidonia. The Sidonia

01:36:06.079 --> 01:36:07.279
thing is interesting.

01:36:06.880 --> 01:36:10.079
>> Yeah.

01:36:07.279 --> 01:36:11.119
>> Um and then this one. Look at that.

01:36:10.079 --> 01:36:12.800
>> What the [ __ ] is that?

01:36:11.119 --> 01:36:13.279
>> It looks like a home of some kind or

01:36:12.800 --> 01:36:15.760
something.

01:36:13.279 --> 01:36:18.800
>> Some enormous structure. And the size of

01:36:15.760 --> 01:36:22.400
that, they don't know exactly, but it

01:36:18.800 --> 01:36:25.039
may be as large as several kilometers or

01:36:22.399 --> 01:36:26.479
as small as several hundred meters, but

01:36:25.039 --> 01:36:28.719
they're not exactly sure. But what they

01:36:26.479 --> 01:36:31.839
are sure is that it has very weird right

01:36:28.719 --> 01:36:34.639
angles and right angles that seem to be

01:36:31.840 --> 01:36:35.440
uniform in size.

01:36:34.639 --> 01:36:36.960
>> That's crazy.

01:36:35.439 --> 01:36:38.799
>> Like see how it's highlighted in the

01:36:36.960 --> 01:36:41.039
enhanced photograph in the upper left?

01:36:38.800 --> 01:36:42.719
Like what is that?

01:36:41.039 --> 01:36:44.158
>> But sorry, did they and were they able

01:36:42.719 --> 01:36:45.198
to send like the rover over there? I

01:36:44.158 --> 01:36:46.719
don't know. It's too far away.

01:36:45.198 --> 01:36:49.599
>> I don't think it's in the exact place

01:36:46.719 --> 01:36:51.118
where the rover is at, but they're able

01:36:49.600 --> 01:36:52.639
to get image of these things. And

01:36:51.118 --> 01:36:53.519
there's several of these things.

01:36:52.639 --> 01:36:55.679
>> That's insane.

01:36:53.520 --> 01:36:58.239
>> Yeah, there's a lot of weird stuff.

01:36:55.679 --> 01:37:00.480
There's a lot of weird stuff there. So,

01:36:58.238 --> 01:37:03.678
there's also like ancient civilizations

01:37:00.479 --> 01:37:05.279
that have these myths of us existing

01:37:03.679 --> 01:37:09.118
somewhere else and coming here,

01:37:05.279 --> 01:37:10.639
>> right? But you have to think if human

01:37:09.118 --> 01:37:13.118
beings

01:37:10.639 --> 01:37:15.440
develop somewhere else and they they

01:37:13.118 --> 01:37:16.799
reach some high level of sophistication

01:37:15.439 --> 01:37:18.719
and then they experienced some

01:37:16.800 --> 01:37:20.880
cataclysmic disaster that completely

01:37:18.719 --> 01:37:22.719
destroyed their environment which is

01:37:20.880 --> 01:37:24.319
what Mars is, right? So like let's

01:37:22.719 --> 01:37:26.319
assume that Mars was at one point in

01:37:24.319 --> 01:37:28.719
time

01:37:26.319 --> 01:37:30.319
was habitable and that life existed and

01:37:28.719 --> 01:37:32.480
we know it was at one point in time. We

01:37:30.319 --> 01:37:34.559
know there was water on Mars. We know

01:37:32.479 --> 01:37:36.559
and there's some sort of evidence of at

01:37:34.560 --> 01:37:39.119
least some sort of a very primitive

01:37:36.560 --> 01:37:40.719
biological life on Mars.

01:37:39.118 --> 01:37:42.158
>> If they got to a point where they said,

01:37:40.719 --> 01:37:44.639
"Hey, this [ __ ] place is falling

01:37:42.158 --> 01:37:46.399
apart, but this Earth spot looks pretty

01:37:44.639 --> 01:37:48.719
good."

01:37:46.399 --> 01:37:50.879
And they go there, but then cataclysms

01:37:48.719 --> 01:37:52.800
happen on Earth and no one remembers cuz

01:37:50.880 --> 01:37:54.800
all your information's on hard drives

01:37:52.800 --> 01:37:57.520
and then you have to rebuild society.

01:37:54.800 --> 01:37:59.679
And so you're re-remembering. And so you

01:37:57.520 --> 01:38:02.000
have all these myths of how everything

01:37:59.679 --> 01:38:03.920
started, you know, whether it's Adam and

01:38:02.000 --> 01:38:06.000
Eve or the great flood or whatever these

01:38:03.920 --> 01:38:07.679
things are that we passed down through

01:38:06.000 --> 01:38:09.439
oral tradition for hundreds of years and

01:38:07.679 --> 01:38:11.920
then eventually write it down and then

01:38:09.439 --> 01:38:14.079
people try to decipher what it means and

01:38:11.920 --> 01:38:15.679
they sit in church and try to go over

01:38:14.079 --> 01:38:17.359
what what did it mean? Like what does

01:38:15.679 --> 01:38:19.600
this mean? Like what what is the what is

01:38:17.359 --> 01:38:22.399
the re the real origin of all these

01:38:19.600 --> 01:38:24.880
stories? We don't know.

01:38:22.399 --> 01:38:27.198
>> I mean that's crazy. It's crazy. But if

01:38:24.880 --> 01:38:29.039
life it sounds nuts, why would life life

01:38:27.198 --> 01:38:31.118
couldn't have possibly existed on Mars?

01:38:29.039 --> 01:38:33.760
How the [ __ ] does life exist on Earth?

01:38:31.118 --> 01:38:35.198
That how about that? How about why why

01:38:33.760 --> 01:38:37.199
would we assume that it wouldn't have

01:38:35.198 --> 01:38:38.799
existed at one point in time and

01:38:37.198 --> 01:38:39.519
Terrence Howard who is a very

01:38:38.800 --> 01:38:40.079
interesting guy.

01:38:39.520 --> 01:38:40.719
>> Very interesting.

01:38:40.079 --> 01:38:41.920
>> And got some

01:38:40.719 --> 01:38:43.840
>> Europe is I mean

01:38:41.920 --> 01:38:44.480
>> with Eric Weinstein crazy.

01:38:43.840 --> 01:38:45.600
>> Yeah. Crazy.

01:38:44.479 --> 01:38:47.759
>> Yeah, that one was crazy.

01:38:45.600 --> 01:38:50.079
>> Um and him alone, but he's got some

01:38:47.760 --> 01:38:53.039
[ __ ] weird ideas that you just make

01:38:50.079 --> 01:38:55.519
you go. He's a very brilliant guy and

01:38:53.039 --> 01:38:59.359
you know kind of a strange heterodox

01:38:55.520 --> 01:39:01.280
thinker right and one of his ideas is

01:38:59.359 --> 01:39:04.960
that

01:39:01.279 --> 01:39:08.399
planets get to a certain distance from a

01:39:04.960 --> 01:39:10.800
sun and they people and that it gets to

01:39:08.399 --> 01:39:13.118
a certain climate and a certain distance

01:39:10.800 --> 01:39:15.039
and his his

01:39:13.118 --> 01:39:18.960
idea is that I don't know if you realize

01:39:15.039 --> 01:39:22.800
that there's a a there's a giant um

01:39:18.960 --> 01:39:24.800
ejection of of of some coronal mass

01:39:22.800 --> 01:39:26.159
ejection that just happened recently on

01:39:24.800 --> 01:39:27.199
the sun and they're very concerned about

01:39:26.158 --> 01:39:29.439
it. They don't know what's going to

01:39:27.198 --> 01:39:33.039
happen. It happens all the time. A sun

01:39:29.439 --> 01:39:35.279
releases these giant chunks of material

01:39:33.039 --> 01:39:37.439
>> and he thinks that these materials get

01:39:35.279 --> 01:39:40.079
far enough away from the planet and then

01:39:37.439 --> 01:39:41.678
they coalesce into planets or far enough

01:39:40.079 --> 01:39:44.079
away from the sun. They coales into

01:39:41.679 --> 01:39:46.319
planets and as time goes on they get a

01:39:44.079 --> 01:39:48.399
further and further distance from the

01:39:46.319 --> 01:39:51.039
sun and then obviously they get hit with

01:39:48.399 --> 01:39:54.079
asteroids and there's panspermia and

01:39:51.039 --> 01:39:56.479
water gets into them from comets and

01:39:54.079 --> 01:39:58.238
then they develop oceans and then they

01:39:56.479 --> 01:40:00.399
develop biological life and when they

01:39:58.238 --> 01:40:03.519
have a certain amount of distance from

01:40:00.399 --> 01:40:05.118
the sun they people and he thinks that

01:40:03.520 --> 01:40:06.719
as they get further and further and

01:40:05.118 --> 01:40:09.039
further away they get less and less

01:40:06.719 --> 01:40:11.279
habitable and then they get to a point

01:40:09.039 --> 01:40:13.600
where they have their techn technology

01:40:11.279 --> 01:40:15.519
to a point where they realize like we

01:40:13.600 --> 01:40:18.079
can't sustain life on this planet

01:40:15.520 --> 01:40:19.520
anymore. We got to go to that other one.

01:40:18.079 --> 01:40:21.519
And so do they go to the one that's

01:40:19.520 --> 01:40:23.199
closer to the sun because they're too

01:40:21.520 --> 01:40:24.560
far now.

01:40:23.198 --> 01:40:25.039
>> It's a nutty idea.

01:40:24.560 --> 01:40:26.719
>> Jesus Christ.

01:40:25.039 --> 01:40:31.039
>> It's a nutty idea. But if you think

01:40:26.719 --> 01:40:32.639
about how recent our sun is in terms of

01:40:31.039 --> 01:40:34.960
the solar system itself, in terms of

01:40:32.639 --> 01:40:37.359
rather the galaxy itself. So if the

01:40:34.960 --> 01:40:40.800
universe, if the big bang is correct and

01:40:37.359 --> 01:40:43.198
our universe existed and it was rather

01:40:40.800 --> 01:40:46.079
our universe erupted from nothing or

01:40:43.198 --> 01:40:48.238
from a very small thing 13.7 billion

01:40:46.079 --> 01:40:50.960
years ago. Well, this [ __ ] planet's

01:40:48.238 --> 01:40:53.359
only 4 something billion years old,

01:40:50.960 --> 01:40:54.719
right? And life is only, you know, a

01:40:53.359 --> 01:40:56.479
little bit less than that. Yeah.

01:40:54.719 --> 01:40:58.158
>> So you have like a billion years or so

01:40:56.479 --> 01:40:59.439
where there's nothing and then you start

01:40:58.158 --> 01:41:01.198
getting single- cellled organisms,

01:40:59.439 --> 01:41:02.799
multi-elled organisms, and eventually it

01:41:01.198 --> 01:41:04.559
peoples.

01:41:02.800 --> 01:41:06.880
And when it gets to a certain point when

01:41:04.560 --> 01:41:08.800
these people have advanced their

01:41:06.880 --> 01:41:10.880
curiosity and their innovation to the

01:41:08.800 --> 01:41:13.279
point where they can harness space

01:41:10.880 --> 01:41:14.319
travel and they use zero point energy

01:41:13.279 --> 01:41:16.238
and they have a bunch of different

01:41:14.319 --> 01:41:18.880
things that we haven't invented yet. And

01:41:16.238 --> 01:41:20.000
then their environment degrades and it

01:41:18.880 --> 01:41:22.079
gets to the point where they realize

01:41:20.000 --> 01:41:24.479
like hey we're getting pummeled by

01:41:22.079 --> 01:41:24.880
asteroids. We can't sustain life here

01:41:24.479 --> 01:41:25.599
anymore.

01:41:24.880 --> 01:41:27.760
>> We got to move

01:41:25.600 --> 01:41:29.520
>> like Elon wants to go to Mars which

01:41:27.760 --> 01:41:30.320
might be the wrong answer. We might want

01:41:29.520 --> 01:41:32.800
to go that way.

01:41:30.319 --> 01:41:35.198
>> There are closer to the sun.

01:41:32.800 --> 01:41:37.600
>> Exactly. I mean, the thing is he's got

01:41:35.198 --> 01:41:38.319
everything it he needs now to get there.

01:41:37.600 --> 01:41:39.679
Like I

01:41:38.319 --> 01:41:40.399
>> I'm not going. Are you going?

01:41:39.679 --> 01:41:43.039
>> I would go.

01:41:40.399 --> 01:41:44.719
>> [ __ ] that. I'll send you an email.

01:41:43.039 --> 01:41:45.920
>> Hold on a second. Think Think about

01:41:44.719 --> 01:41:47.198
Think about what he's going to take.

01:41:45.920 --> 01:41:48.639
Okay, look.

01:41:47.198 --> 01:41:50.799
>> When Let's just say he gets there with

01:41:48.639 --> 01:41:54.159
the city. He has

01:41:50.800 --> 01:41:54.560
>> he has the way to transport us there,

01:41:54.158 --> 01:41:59.198
>> right?

01:41:54.560 --> 01:42:01.039
>> Okay. Then when you land, he's got the

01:41:59.198 --> 01:42:01.839
way to actually transport us around on

01:42:01.039 --> 01:42:03.600
the

01:42:01.840 --> 01:42:04.880
>> on the planet, right? He's got Tesla,

01:42:03.600 --> 01:42:06.880
>> right?

01:42:04.880 --> 01:42:08.480
>> He will have already sent a fleet of his

01:42:06.880 --> 01:42:10.319
robots.

01:42:08.479 --> 01:42:12.479
Those folks will have made some

01:42:10.319 --> 01:42:14.639
inhabitable city

01:42:12.479 --> 01:42:15.919
probably using the Boring Company drill

01:42:14.639 --> 01:42:17.279
because you you're going to, you know,

01:42:15.920 --> 01:42:18.960
be under the regalith that you don't

01:42:17.279 --> 01:42:21.439
want to be on the top. Maybe you just

01:42:18.960 --> 01:42:22.319
dig a hole and you you inhabit down

01:42:21.439 --> 01:42:24.960
there.

01:42:22.319 --> 01:42:27.679
>> Um he's got all the ways to make energy.

01:42:24.960 --> 01:42:30.480
He has the AI to help you design the

01:42:27.679 --> 01:42:32.480
stuff. He has the communication way to

01:42:30.479 --> 01:42:34.000
communicate. He's got the internet, his

01:42:32.479 --> 01:42:35.919
own internet. So that right

01:42:34.000 --> 01:42:38.158
>> so he can get, you know, all of the

01:42:35.920 --> 01:42:41.199
information to everybody. And then he's

01:42:38.158 --> 01:42:43.439
got money and the super app so that you

01:42:41.198 --> 01:42:45.839
can transact. And then I think to myself

01:42:43.439 --> 01:42:47.678
like what is he actually missing? And

01:42:45.840 --> 01:42:51.199
then what happens if he if he gets there

01:42:47.679 --> 01:42:52.960
first? Is he just allowed to just do

01:42:51.198 --> 01:42:54.319
whatever he wants? Like is it just kind

01:42:52.960 --> 01:42:55.198
of like a free-for-all? like

01:42:54.319 --> 01:42:56.960
>> well kind of

01:42:55.198 --> 01:42:57.599
>> it's his constitution. Like is that what

01:42:56.960 --> 01:43:00.079
happens?

01:42:57.600 --> 01:43:01.440
>> Well, it's like earth but shittier.

01:43:00.079 --> 01:43:02.719
>> Like we already have all those things

01:43:01.439 --> 01:43:04.238
here. Why would you want to go to a

01:43:02.719 --> 01:43:05.760
place where you die when you go outside?

01:43:04.238 --> 01:43:07.678
>> I think what people will be attracted to

01:43:05.760 --> 01:43:09.600
is that if he publishes his version of

01:43:07.679 --> 01:43:11.118
what the rules are there, there's a

01:43:09.600 --> 01:43:12.480
chance that he could make them really

01:43:11.118 --> 01:43:14.158
different to what the rules are here.

01:43:12.479 --> 01:43:17.118
>> Like what kind of rules would you do if

01:43:14.158 --> 01:43:21.599
you were the king of Mars? Um

01:43:17.118 --> 01:43:24.639
so I think that your view is incredibly

01:43:21.600 --> 01:43:26.320
to me like um positive some like of

01:43:24.639 --> 01:43:27.199
humanity of like we want to make things

01:43:26.319 --> 01:43:28.799
better. Mhm.

01:43:27.198 --> 01:43:31.118
>> So if I think about that as like a

01:43:28.800 --> 01:43:32.719
function, what happens that that's like

01:43:31.118 --> 01:43:35.279
so our natural rate of direction is

01:43:32.719 --> 01:43:36.480
forward what pushes back on that and a

01:43:35.279 --> 01:43:38.158
lot of it what you find is like

01:43:36.479 --> 01:43:38.559
government regulation rules all that

01:43:38.158 --> 01:43:39.359
stuff

01:43:38.560 --> 01:43:42.480
>> greed

01:43:39.359 --> 01:43:43.039
>> greed um too much focus on attention

01:43:42.479 --> 01:43:45.759
>> right

01:43:43.039 --> 01:43:47.439
>> so I would try to experiment with like

01:43:45.760 --> 01:43:49.520
what the incentives would have to be so

01:43:47.439 --> 01:43:51.198
that you had more unfettered

01:43:49.520 --> 01:43:52.719
entrepreneurship like just like do the

01:43:51.198 --> 01:43:54.879
thing that you think is right

01:43:52.719 --> 01:43:57.198
>> and there's a mechanism where we give

01:43:54.880 --> 01:43:59.440
you the ability to then make things for

01:43:57.198 --> 01:44:00.719
more people because you're proving that

01:43:59.439 --> 01:44:03.599
you're actually really good at making

01:44:00.719 --> 01:44:06.719
things. And if you don't need money at

01:44:03.600 --> 01:44:09.280
that point in society, reorienting us

01:44:06.719 --> 01:44:11.118
away from this kind of like brittle form

01:44:09.279 --> 01:44:12.880
of exchange to something more useful,

01:44:11.118 --> 01:44:14.158
that's worth experimenting with. I think

01:44:12.880 --> 01:44:16.079
that's an important

01:44:14.158 --> 01:44:18.879
>> Well, there's also the concept of the

01:44:16.079 --> 01:44:22.559
self of the individual which may erode

01:44:18.880 --> 01:44:25.199
with technological innovation. So, if we

01:44:22.560 --> 01:44:27.199
really can read each other's minds, if

01:44:25.198 --> 01:44:30.079
we really do get to a point where we're

01:44:27.198 --> 01:44:34.479
communicating through technologically

01:44:30.079 --> 01:44:37.279
assisted telepathy, like a lot of the

01:44:34.479 --> 01:44:38.799
whole the weirdness of people is I don't

01:44:37.279 --> 01:44:41.118
know what you're thinking. I don't know

01:44:38.800 --> 01:44:43.119
if I should trust you. You know, this

01:44:41.118 --> 01:44:45.118
[ __ ] might be devious. You know,

01:44:43.118 --> 01:44:45.439
you know what I mean? Well, we'll know,

01:44:45.118 --> 01:44:47.198
right?

01:44:45.439 --> 01:44:50.079
>> And there will be no need for all that

01:44:47.198 --> 01:44:51.759
if we really are all one. If that's

01:44:50.079 --> 01:44:53.359
ultimately something that can be

01:44:51.760 --> 01:44:54.560
achieved with technology,

01:44:53.359 --> 01:44:57.118
>> like this hive mind.

01:44:54.560 --> 01:44:58.719
>> Yes. Like legitimate hive mind. And then

01:44:57.118 --> 01:45:00.559
like look where society's going.

01:44:58.719 --> 01:45:03.198
Gender's kind of falling apart. People

01:45:00.560 --> 01:45:04.960
are getting they're reproducing less,

01:45:03.198 --> 01:45:07.279
right? People are are having less

01:45:04.960 --> 01:45:09.359
testosterone, more miscarriages, less

01:45:07.279 --> 01:45:13.198
fertile. We're kind of moving into this

01:45:09.359 --> 01:45:18.960
genderless direction. And I don't know

01:45:13.198 --> 01:45:20.319
if it's by design, but microlastics and

01:45:18.960 --> 01:45:22.239
phalates and all these different

01:45:20.319 --> 01:45:24.399
chemicals that are endocrine disruptors

01:45:22.238 --> 01:45:25.118
are all ubiquitous in our society. Well,

01:45:24.399 --> 01:45:27.279
does

01:45:25.118 --> 01:45:28.479
>> is that a coincidence that that's all

01:45:27.279 --> 01:45:30.880
happening at the same time as

01:45:28.479 --> 01:45:32.959
technological innovation on mass scale?

01:45:30.880 --> 01:45:35.199
Is it? I don't know. Because like what's

01:45:32.960 --> 01:45:38.239
the one thing that's holding us back?

01:45:35.198 --> 01:45:41.039
Well, that we're territorial primates

01:45:38.238 --> 01:45:43.759
with thermonuclear weapons and that we

01:45:41.039 --> 01:45:46.000
exist in a sort of tribal mindset, but

01:45:43.760 --> 01:45:46.400
yet we do it on a planet of 8 billion

01:45:46.000 --> 01:45:48.000
people.

01:45:46.399 --> 01:45:50.879
>> Yeah. No, no. The key differentiator of

01:45:48.000 --> 01:45:51.600
humans is our our ability to enact

01:45:50.880 --> 01:45:51.920
violence.

01:45:51.600 --> 01:45:55.119
>> Yeah.

01:45:51.920 --> 01:45:55.840
>> To to methodically execute premeditated

01:45:55.118 --> 01:46:00.238
violence.

01:45:55.840 --> 01:46:02.400
>> Yes. And and greed and attention. And

01:46:00.238 --> 01:46:05.839
one of the things that attention is

01:46:02.399 --> 01:46:08.079
sexual preference or or sexual rather

01:46:05.840 --> 01:46:10.400
attention like the ability to procreate,

01:46:08.079 --> 01:46:12.000
the ability to acquire mates, right?

01:46:10.399 --> 01:46:13.599
Like the more resources you have, the

01:46:12.000 --> 01:46:15.520
more attractive you'll be, especially

01:46:13.600 --> 01:46:17.039
for males and males are the ones that

01:46:15.520 --> 01:46:19.520
are involved in the violence in the

01:46:17.039 --> 01:46:21.439
first place. You know, there's I can't

01:46:19.520 --> 01:46:21.840
name a single war that was started by a

01:46:21.439 --> 01:46:24.960
woman.

01:46:21.840 --> 01:46:29.159
>> How do you how do you teach your kids

01:46:24.960 --> 01:46:29.158
that attention is not everything?

01:46:29.760 --> 01:46:33.280
That's a good question. Especially in

01:46:31.279 --> 01:46:35.039
this society, it's probably harder to do

01:46:33.279 --> 01:46:36.880
that now than ever before

01:46:35.039 --> 01:46:39.840
>> because the reaction that I suspect most

01:46:36.880 --> 01:46:42.880
kids will have is like,

01:46:39.840 --> 01:46:44.800
"Stop. Like, leave me alone." Like, it's

01:46:42.880 --> 01:46:48.639
just it's almost an impossible thing.

01:46:44.800 --> 01:46:50.960
>> Well, I think kids learn more from their

01:46:48.639 --> 01:46:53.920
parents' behavior than anything you say

01:46:50.960 --> 01:46:57.118
to them. I think they learn from the way

01:46:53.920 --> 01:46:58.800
you behave and the way you exist and the

01:46:57.118 --> 01:47:02.238
way you exist with them.

01:46:58.800 --> 01:47:05.600
>> And if you are constantly whoring

01:47:02.238 --> 01:47:06.959
yourself out for attention,

01:47:05.600 --> 01:47:08.960
>> it's one thing if you get a lot of

01:47:06.960 --> 01:47:10.719
attention from what you do, but if

01:47:08.960 --> 01:47:11.118
that's your primary goal, they're going

01:47:10.719 --> 01:47:13.118
to know.

01:47:11.118 --> 01:47:14.960
>> Do your kids know how famous and

01:47:13.118 --> 01:47:15.439
influential you are? Like honest

01:47:14.960 --> 01:47:16.880
question.

01:47:15.439 --> 01:47:18.719
>> Oh, yeah. They know.

01:47:16.880 --> 01:47:20.319
>> But do do they have a real sense of it

01:47:18.719 --> 01:47:22.399
or do you just kind of like

01:47:20.319 --> 01:47:23.920
>> Yes, they can. I mean, how can you? It's

01:47:22.399 --> 01:47:27.359
got to be weird as [ __ ] growing up with

01:47:23.920 --> 01:47:29.199
a very famous dad. It's very odd, but

01:47:27.359 --> 01:47:30.158
it's not my primary goal.

01:47:29.198 --> 01:47:31.759
>> Yeah, this is my point. You're not

01:47:30.158 --> 01:47:33.439
You're not putting it in their face.

01:47:31.760 --> 01:47:34.639
>> So, to your point, you're not modeling

01:47:33.439 --> 01:47:37.678
attention is all you do.

01:47:34.639 --> 01:47:42.319
>> No, no. I have interesting conversations

01:47:37.679 --> 01:47:44.239
with cool people. I tell jokes and I

01:47:42.319 --> 01:47:45.198
call fights. Like, those are the things

01:47:44.238 --> 01:47:47.359
that I do.

01:47:45.198 --> 01:47:49.039
>> And they also know that I have a very

01:47:47.359 --> 01:47:50.719
strong work ethic and that I work

01:47:49.039 --> 01:47:52.960
towards things. So they have very strong

01:47:50.719 --> 01:47:54.158
work ethics. They're very motivated and

01:47:52.960 --> 01:47:56.960
disciplined, like shockingly

01:47:54.158 --> 01:47:59.039
disciplined. And I think that's modeled.

01:47:56.960 --> 01:48:01.600
I think that that comes from and they

01:47:59.039 --> 01:48:04.960
also like really enjoy achieving goals.

01:48:01.600 --> 01:48:09.440
And they're they're rewarded for it with

01:48:04.960 --> 01:48:11.439
praise and with admiration, but not

01:48:09.439 --> 01:48:13.839
never with like you're better than other

01:48:11.439 --> 01:48:16.079
people. Yeah. Ne never like it's the the

01:48:13.840 --> 01:48:18.560
idea is like all human beings are

01:48:16.079 --> 01:48:21.920
capable of greatness. So, it's like find

01:48:18.560 --> 01:48:23.520
the thing that you excel at and if you

01:48:21.920 --> 01:48:24.239
throw yourself into that, it's very

01:48:23.520 --> 01:48:26.000
rewarding.

01:48:24.238 --> 01:48:28.399
>> I really I really believe in this. I

01:48:26.000 --> 01:48:29.600
tell this story when I interview people.

01:48:28.399 --> 01:48:30.799
When I interview people, I'm always

01:48:29.600 --> 01:48:32.560
like, you know, just at whatever

01:48:30.800 --> 01:48:34.960
company, I'm always like I first only

01:48:32.560 --> 01:48:36.480
want to know about them. I'm like, [ __ ]

01:48:34.960 --> 01:48:38.800
your resume. Like, tell me about your

01:48:36.479 --> 01:48:40.879
parents and how you grew up. I just want

01:48:38.800 --> 01:48:43.039
to know that. Stop at 18. Everything

01:48:40.880 --> 01:48:43.679
before 18. Just tell me every little

01:48:43.039 --> 01:48:44.238
detail,

01:48:43.679 --> 01:48:45.679
>> right?

01:48:44.238 --> 01:48:47.759
>> You know, and some people tell me these

01:48:45.679 --> 01:48:49.920
incredible stories. They'll be like, you

01:48:47.760 --> 01:48:52.960
know, my mom was an alcoholic or this or

01:48:49.920 --> 01:48:54.880
that. And I'm just like, man, this is so

01:48:52.960 --> 01:48:56.319
valuable because it allows me to

01:48:54.880 --> 01:48:57.840
understand who they are. The second part

01:48:56.319 --> 01:48:59.439
of the interview,

01:48:57.840 --> 01:49:01.279
>> we do the business [ __ ] But the third

01:48:59.439 --> 01:49:03.039
part, I tell this story. This is a crazy

01:49:01.279 --> 01:49:05.519
story about what you're just saying.

01:49:03.039 --> 01:49:08.079
>> They ran this experiment at Stanford

01:49:05.520 --> 01:49:11.280
where they take like a big bowl, fill it

01:49:08.079 --> 01:49:12.800
with water, and they drop in a mouse and

01:49:11.279 --> 01:49:15.039
they measure how long it takes for the

01:49:12.800 --> 01:49:16.800
mouse to drown. They do it like a

01:49:15.039 --> 01:49:18.238
hundred times. The average was about

01:49:16.800 --> 01:49:20.400
four minutes, call it four, four and a

01:49:18.238 --> 01:49:22.718
half minutes.

01:49:20.399 --> 01:49:25.599
Then they run the experiment again, 100

01:49:22.719 --> 01:49:27.439
mice, and at minute three or three and a

01:49:25.600 --> 01:49:29.600
half, they take it out, they dry it off,

01:49:27.439 --> 01:49:31.198
they play it music, and they whisper

01:49:29.600 --> 01:49:32.719
like sweet nothings into the mouse's

01:49:31.198 --> 01:49:37.359
ear. They drop the mouse back in the

01:49:32.719 --> 01:49:39.760
water, and that mouse treads water for

01:49:37.359 --> 01:49:43.839
60 hours the next hundred mice on

01:49:39.760 --> 01:49:46.960
average. And the upper bound was 80. And

01:49:43.840 --> 01:49:48.800
I thought to myself like that is all

01:49:46.960 --> 01:49:50.239
just potential right there. Like that's

01:49:48.800 --> 01:49:51.920
all like there's all this latent

01:49:50.238 --> 01:49:53.839
potential. So if an animal has it, I'm

01:49:51.920 --> 01:49:54.960
going to assume that humans have it too,

01:49:53.840 --> 01:49:56.639
>> right?

01:49:54.960 --> 01:49:58.480
>> But you never get a chance to unlock it.

01:49:56.639 --> 01:50:00.159
Like the average person is just kind of

01:49:58.479 --> 01:50:01.678
like living a life where they're maybe

01:50:00.158 --> 01:50:03.118
scratching five or 10% of their

01:50:01.679 --> 01:50:04.880
potential. And the question is, how do

01:50:03.118 --> 01:50:06.639
you get to that other 90%. Like how does

01:50:04.880 --> 01:50:08.880
the second batch of mice How do the

01:50:06.639 --> 01:50:09.440
second batch of mice tread water for 60

01:50:08.880 --> 01:50:10.960
hours?

01:50:09.439 --> 01:50:14.960
>> Well, the doesn't make any sense to me.

01:50:10.960 --> 01:50:16.639
all the same mice, right? I think the I

01:50:14.960 --> 01:50:17.439
think the mice get rescued,

01:50:16.639 --> 01:50:20.000
>> they get rescued

01:50:17.439 --> 01:50:22.319
>> and then when they try it again those

01:50:20.000 --> 01:50:25.359
same mice last longer, right? So it's

01:50:22.319 --> 01:50:27.439
the same mice. So it's an experience.

01:50:25.359 --> 01:50:29.198
>> So they have experience now. They

01:50:27.439 --> 01:50:31.439
understand that they can tread water

01:50:29.198 --> 01:50:33.599
where they didn't die. So they

01:50:31.439 --> 01:50:34.879
understand that they can survive where

01:50:33.600 --> 01:50:36.079
they didn't know that they could survive

01:50:34.880 --> 01:50:37.039
the first time they were thrown into the

01:50:36.079 --> 01:50:39.198
water because they had never been thrown

01:50:37.039 --> 01:50:41.359
into water before. That's the same thing

01:50:39.198 --> 01:50:43.198
that happens to people when they fight.

01:50:41.359 --> 01:50:45.599
Like the first time people ever have a

01:50:43.198 --> 01:50:47.678
competition, they [ __ ] panic and they

01:50:45.600 --> 01:50:50.239
they get really scared and they get

01:50:47.679 --> 01:50:52.560
really like filled with anxiety. But

01:50:50.238 --> 01:50:54.238
after a while, you get relaxed and

01:50:52.560 --> 01:50:56.239
that's when you get really dangerous

01:50:54.238 --> 01:50:58.000
because then you get calm and you could

01:50:56.238 --> 01:51:00.319
keep your [ __ ] together while you're in

01:50:58.000 --> 01:51:02.158
the middle of all this chaos because you

01:51:00.319 --> 01:51:03.840
have the experience of it. Without the

01:51:02.158 --> 01:51:05.439
experience of it, very few people do

01:51:03.840 --> 01:51:07.199
well the first time, right? Unless

01:51:05.439 --> 01:51:10.319
you're exceptionally talented and and

01:51:07.198 --> 01:51:11.839
you have other competition experience,

01:51:10.319 --> 01:51:13.359
like you've competed in other things,

01:51:11.840 --> 01:51:14.800
like maybe you played football or some

01:51:13.359 --> 01:51:16.719
other things and you know what it's like

01:51:14.800 --> 01:51:18.400
to actually perform under pressure.

01:51:16.719 --> 01:51:20.960
>> What is the what is the version of

01:51:18.399 --> 01:51:22.479
giving more humans a chance to get to

01:51:20.960 --> 01:51:25.039
that?

01:51:22.479 --> 01:51:27.118
Well, I think sports are really good for

01:51:25.039 --> 01:51:29.600
that because performing under people

01:51:27.118 --> 01:51:31.198
paying attention to you and performing

01:51:29.600 --> 01:51:32.880
where people are trying to stop you from

01:51:31.198 --> 01:51:35.039
doing something and you're trying to do

01:51:32.880 --> 01:51:38.239
something and there's all these unknowns

01:51:35.039 --> 01:51:40.319
and recognizing that hard work allows

01:51:38.238 --> 01:51:43.039
you to do whatever you're trying to do

01:51:40.319 --> 01:51:44.238
better than you previously had. One of

01:51:43.039 --> 01:51:46.639
the things my martial arts instructor

01:51:44.238 --> 01:51:48.079
said to me when I was young is that

01:51:46.639 --> 01:51:50.719
martial arts are a vehicle for

01:51:48.079 --> 01:51:52.479
developing your human potential. And

01:51:50.719 --> 01:51:54.319
that through this very difficult thing

01:51:52.479 --> 01:51:57.919
that you're trying to do,

01:51:54.319 --> 01:52:01.439
>> you're learning that, oh, if I just

01:51:57.920 --> 01:52:04.480
think smart and think hard and train

01:52:01.439 --> 01:52:07.359
wise and train hard and discipline

01:52:04.479 --> 01:52:09.118
myself to endure suffering so that I can

01:52:07.359 --> 01:52:11.039
develop more endurance and more speed

01:52:09.118 --> 01:52:12.238
and more power and more technique

01:52:11.039 --> 01:52:13.840
because I accumulate all this

01:52:12.238 --> 01:52:16.238
information and I really think about

01:52:13.840 --> 01:52:18.159
what it is and apply it with drills and

01:52:16.238 --> 01:52:19.198
with training, I can get better at this

01:52:18.158 --> 01:52:21.198
thing. And every time I get better at

01:52:19.198 --> 01:52:23.279
this thing, I get rewarded psychically,

01:52:21.198 --> 01:52:24.799
like mentally, you feel better. Like I

01:52:23.279 --> 01:52:26.719
know that I'm better now. And then

01:52:24.800 --> 01:52:28.320
there's the belt system, right? You

01:52:26.719 --> 01:52:30.239
start off, you're a white belt. And in

01:52:28.319 --> 01:52:31.599
taekwondo, you get a blue belt and then

01:52:30.238 --> 01:52:33.198
after you get a blue belt, you get a

01:52:31.599 --> 01:52:34.560
green belt. And then if you get a I

01:52:33.198 --> 01:52:36.000
think it's green belt first and then I

01:52:34.560 --> 01:52:37.679
forget how it goes. And then it's red

01:52:36.000 --> 01:52:39.760
belt and black belt. And like when

01:52:37.679 --> 01:52:41.760
you're a black belt, like holy [ __ ] So

01:52:39.760 --> 01:52:43.599
it's this thing where you've developed

01:52:41.760 --> 01:52:45.920
to a point where you've gotten to this

01:52:43.599 --> 01:52:48.079
next stage. So all along the way you've

01:52:45.920 --> 01:52:50.158
been rewarded for your hard work and

01:52:48.079 --> 01:52:51.039
then you realize like oh I could do this

01:52:50.158 --> 01:52:53.039
with everything in life.

01:52:51.039 --> 01:52:53.760
>> Is a reward different than attention? It

01:52:53.039 --> 01:52:56.238
is.

01:52:53.760 --> 01:52:59.280
>> It is because it's internal right.

01:52:56.238 --> 01:53:01.678
You're you're all you're realizing that

01:52:59.279 --> 01:53:04.158
you could apply this to you know

01:53:01.679 --> 01:53:07.118
whatever it is to carpentry to music.

01:53:04.158 --> 01:53:08.879
You you just it's just a matter of focus

01:53:07.118 --> 01:53:11.920
and attention. And some people

01:53:08.880 --> 01:53:13.760
unfortunately never find a vehicle. They

01:53:11.920 --> 01:53:15.840
never find a thing that they can throw

01:53:13.760 --> 01:53:19.119
themselves into. They realize like, and

01:53:15.840 --> 01:53:22.639
this is not unique. It's not like I'm an

01:53:19.118 --> 01:53:24.238
unusual person or anybody is. I mean,

01:53:22.639 --> 01:53:26.000
there's people that have unusual

01:53:24.238 --> 01:53:28.158
physical gifts and some people have

01:53:26.000 --> 01:53:31.279
unusual mental gifts. But the reality

01:53:28.158 --> 01:53:33.359
is, no matter where you start, everyone

01:53:31.279 --> 01:53:34.639
can get better. And when you do

01:53:33.359 --> 01:53:36.399
something, whether it's learning to play

01:53:34.639 --> 01:53:39.118
guitar, as you get better at it, you

01:53:36.399 --> 01:53:41.279
realize like, oh, this is what it's all

01:53:39.118 --> 01:53:43.118
about. Yeah. Like it's really all about

01:53:41.279 --> 01:53:46.000
applying yourself to something and then

01:53:43.118 --> 01:53:48.479
feeling this immense satisfaction of

01:53:46.000 --> 01:53:50.000
your hard work paying off and that

01:53:48.479 --> 01:53:52.399
motivates you to work hard at other

01:53:50.000 --> 01:53:55.279
things. And if you don't find that early

01:53:52.399 --> 01:53:57.118
on, it's very difficult to like find

01:53:55.279 --> 01:53:57.679
like real satisfaction.

01:53:57.118 --> 01:53:58.399
>> Yeah.

01:53:57.679 --> 01:54:00.719
>> In life.

01:53:58.399 --> 01:54:02.559
>> Yeah. I've always had something outside

01:54:00.719 --> 01:54:04.560
of my

01:54:02.560 --> 01:54:06.239
daily life

01:54:04.560 --> 01:54:08.719
that is the thing that I actually care

01:54:06.238 --> 01:54:10.238
about and it actually energizes me for

01:54:08.719 --> 01:54:11.359
my day-to-day life. I don't know if

01:54:10.238 --> 01:54:12.479
that's like a lot of people but

01:54:11.359 --> 01:54:16.000
>> like what do you do? What's your take?

01:54:12.479 --> 01:54:19.198
>> Like well initially it was poker and I

01:54:16.000 --> 01:54:21.439
and even now I obsess about the game um

01:54:19.198 --> 01:54:23.198
because it's infinitely more complex

01:54:21.439 --> 01:54:25.919
than chess. Like chess you can get to a

01:54:23.198 --> 01:54:28.319
place where you can roughly be good.

01:54:25.920 --> 01:54:30.079
Poker is just constantly there's just

01:54:28.319 --> 01:54:32.639
too many variables. There's human

01:54:30.079 --> 01:54:34.399
emotion, there's human psychology,

01:54:32.639 --> 01:54:37.359
the number of people, all of this stuff

01:54:34.399 --> 01:54:39.519
just makes the complexity of the game

01:54:37.359 --> 01:54:41.359
something that I find magical.

01:54:39.520 --> 01:54:42.880
>> And so I sit there and I try to

01:54:41.359 --> 01:54:44.479
understand like why am I doing the

01:54:42.880 --> 01:54:46.000
things that I'm doing? And so much of it

01:54:44.479 --> 01:54:48.319
comes back to being a mirror about

01:54:46.000 --> 01:54:50.319
what's happening in my daily life. It's

01:54:48.319 --> 01:54:52.399
the [ __ ] craziest thing. Like I'm

01:54:50.319 --> 01:54:54.880
super insecure. I'll go into poker and I

01:54:52.399 --> 01:54:56.559
will just lose for weeks at a time. But

01:54:54.880 --> 01:54:58.560
it's because I'm insecure in my daily

01:54:56.560 --> 01:55:00.000
life. And what's happening is that I'm

01:54:58.560 --> 01:55:01.520
trying to find these quick wins and

01:55:00.000 --> 01:55:03.520
quick solutions

01:55:01.520 --> 01:55:06.480
>> because I'm in a state of insecurity.

01:55:03.520 --> 01:55:08.320
I'm anxious. I have this anxiety. And so

01:55:06.479 --> 01:55:10.079
it's become a great mirror for me. So

01:55:08.319 --> 01:55:13.920
that used to be a thing. It still is a

01:55:10.079 --> 01:55:16.000
thing. And but I've become reasonably

01:55:13.920 --> 01:55:18.480
skilled at it where the edges are

01:55:16.000 --> 01:55:20.399
smaller and I put myself in positions

01:55:18.479 --> 01:55:22.638
where I'm only playing against a certain

01:55:20.399 --> 01:55:24.638
group of people and I'm the losing

01:55:22.639 --> 01:55:27.199
player frankly in that game. if when I'm

01:55:24.639 --> 01:55:29.840
playing against like the top pros,

01:55:27.198 --> 01:55:32.719
it just doesn't it helps me and I can

01:55:29.840 --> 01:55:33.920
get tuned up for it. But then I started

01:55:32.719 --> 01:55:35.679
to, you know, I would take different

01:55:33.920 --> 01:55:37.039
things. I tried to learn how to ski.

01:55:35.679 --> 01:55:38.560
Basically impossible when you're older.

01:55:37.039 --> 01:55:40.000
I look like a [ __ ] idiot. Like

01:55:38.560 --> 01:55:42.000
>> how old were you when you tried?

01:55:40.000 --> 01:55:43.599
>> Uh I started when I was like, you know,

01:55:42.000 --> 01:55:45.599
I I was a good snowboarder, so I was

01:55:43.599 --> 01:55:47.840
snowboarding my whole life. And then my

01:55:45.599 --> 01:55:49.760
kids skied and so I'm like, okay, well,

01:55:47.840 --> 01:55:51.679
I want to do this as a family. So I was

01:55:49.760 --> 01:55:54.079
like 42 or something when I tried. I'm

01:55:51.679 --> 01:55:55.359
49 now, almost 50.

01:55:54.079 --> 01:55:58.000
It's brutal. I mean, it's like I look

01:55:55.359 --> 01:55:59.759
like a [ __ ] idiot. Like this gangly

01:55:58.000 --> 01:56:02.719
giraffe like trying to get down the

01:55:59.760 --> 01:56:06.239
mountain. And then now I start at golf

01:56:02.719 --> 01:56:08.480
and man, I got to tell you, I used to

01:56:06.238 --> 01:56:09.839
play a little bit, then I stopped. But

01:56:08.479 --> 01:56:11.519
there's something to me about being

01:56:09.840 --> 01:56:14.800
outside

01:56:11.520 --> 01:56:16.560
where just like being in nature I find

01:56:14.800 --> 01:56:17.520
like really motivating.

01:56:16.560 --> 01:56:19.920
>> It's a vitamin.

01:56:17.520 --> 01:56:21.920
>> It's a vitamin. And then just the mind

01:56:19.920 --> 01:56:23.840
body connection of that game, it just

01:56:21.920 --> 01:56:25.279
really [ __ ] with you because it's it's

01:56:23.840 --> 01:56:26.400
just nothing you can master and

01:56:25.279 --> 01:56:27.039
overpower,

01:56:26.399 --> 01:56:29.598
>> right?

01:56:27.039 --> 01:56:30.158
>> And it teaches you to just like be in

01:56:29.599 --> 01:56:30.880
it.

01:56:30.158 --> 01:56:34.079
>> Yeah.

01:56:30.880 --> 01:56:36.560
>> And that's a very hard skill. Like if

01:56:34.079 --> 01:56:37.840
you look at the best like I there's like

01:56:36.560 --> 01:56:40.960
a handful of people that I really look

01:56:37.840 --> 01:56:42.480
up to and I obsess like Mer Buffett, but

01:56:40.960 --> 01:56:43.840
the Berkshire meeting was this past

01:56:42.479 --> 01:56:46.479
weekend and if you look at the clips,

01:56:43.840 --> 01:56:48.159
there's this incredible thing where they

01:56:46.479 --> 01:56:50.158
transitioned, right? Mer passed away.

01:56:48.158 --> 01:56:52.079
Buffett's like now executive chairman.

01:56:50.158 --> 01:56:53.598
But this guy Greg Ael and this guy Ajet

01:56:52.079 --> 01:56:55.920
Jane. Ajet Jane does this thing where

01:56:53.599 --> 01:56:58.239
he's like, I teach the people that come

01:56:55.920 --> 01:56:59.199
to just say no. Your whole job is to

01:56:58.238 --> 01:57:00.718
just say no. You're going to get

01:56:59.198 --> 01:57:03.279
bombarded with all kinds of business

01:57:00.719 --> 01:57:04.800
pitches. Say no, no, no. And eventually

01:57:03.279 --> 01:57:06.399
somebody will come and [ __ ] try to

01:57:04.800 --> 01:57:08.560
whack you in the head with a 2x4 of

01:57:06.399 --> 01:57:11.679
money. Then you come to me and we'll do

01:57:08.560 --> 01:57:15.599
the deal. And it made such an impression

01:57:11.679 --> 01:57:17.440
because like again when I'm insecure,

01:57:15.599 --> 01:57:18.880
my reward function is attention. So I'm

01:57:17.439 --> 01:57:20.000
like a [ __ ] little busy body. I'm

01:57:18.880 --> 01:57:23.118
running around doing all this little

01:57:20.000 --> 01:57:25.359
[ __ ] you know? E. And then man,

01:57:23.118 --> 01:57:27.279
when I'm in a [ __ ] flow state and

01:57:25.359 --> 01:57:29.439
like I'm tunning it, like I'm striping

01:57:27.279 --> 01:57:31.599
the ball, you know? I'm like a few

01:57:29.439 --> 01:57:35.359
things that really matter in size and

01:57:31.599 --> 01:57:38.400
I'm like, man, this is this is right.

01:57:35.359 --> 01:57:41.279
It's all come to me because I'm like I'm

01:57:38.399 --> 01:57:43.839
like within myself and these other

01:57:41.279 --> 01:57:45.840
things are a better reflection of when

01:57:43.840 --> 01:57:47.599
I'm within myself and these other things

01:57:45.840 --> 01:57:48.639
are a mirror of when I'm totally out of

01:57:47.599 --> 01:57:50.239
kilter.

01:57:48.639 --> 01:57:53.599
>> That's just me.

01:57:50.238 --> 01:57:54.079
>> So in my life these things tend to lead.

01:57:53.599 --> 01:57:55.679
>> Um

01:57:54.079 --> 01:57:57.679
>> I think you're saying that's just you,

01:57:55.679 --> 01:58:01.760
but I think that's generally most

01:57:57.679 --> 01:58:04.079
people. I think you find these things,

01:58:01.760 --> 01:58:05.760
these vehicles for developing human

01:58:04.079 --> 01:58:08.158
potential, whether it's martial arts or

01:58:05.760 --> 01:58:09.440
golf or playing guitar or playing chess

01:58:08.158 --> 01:58:11.839
or poker.

01:58:09.439 --> 01:58:14.879
>> And then you have to have, I think, one,

01:58:11.840 --> 01:58:16.639
at least for me, one seinal relationship

01:58:14.880 --> 01:58:18.719
in your life. You have to have one

01:58:16.639 --> 01:58:21.039
person that has just undying belief in

01:58:18.719 --> 01:58:23.520
you. And I never really had that until I

01:58:21.039 --> 01:58:25.679
met my wife. And that was a very, and I

01:58:23.520 --> 01:58:27.679
didn't I pushed against it so [ __ ]

01:58:25.679 --> 01:58:29.199
hard because I was like, it just can't

01:58:27.679 --> 01:58:31.199
be true. like why does this person give

01:58:29.198 --> 01:58:32.638
a [ __ ] Do you know what I mean? Like

01:58:31.198 --> 01:58:32.799
why do they care about me more than I

01:58:32.639 --> 01:58:34.159
do?

01:58:32.800 --> 01:58:35.679
>> Well, there's also the fear because so

01:58:34.158 --> 01:58:36.559
many people get in those bad

01:58:35.679 --> 01:58:38.239
relationships.

01:58:36.560 --> 01:58:40.320
>> And I'm just like I I think there's a

01:58:38.238 --> 01:58:42.238
part of you like me where you're just

01:58:40.319 --> 01:58:44.238
like I'm not a very lovable person. Like

01:58:42.238 --> 01:58:48.879
I'm just like this is that's not who I

01:58:44.238 --> 01:58:50.399
am. And this woman is just there.

01:58:48.880 --> 01:58:52.159
So that's been like the thing like for

01:58:50.399 --> 01:58:53.839
me it's like and because she's brutal.

01:58:52.158 --> 01:58:55.118
She'll be like, "Oh yeah, that was

01:58:53.840 --> 01:58:57.679
[ __ ] horrible." You know, like

01:58:55.118 --> 01:58:59.359
yesterday I like we had this we I I I

01:58:57.679 --> 01:59:02.480
did this thing at at Milk and it was a

01:58:59.359 --> 01:59:03.519
dinner at my friend's house and uh then

01:59:02.479 --> 01:59:05.598
you know, we're both going to different

01:59:03.520 --> 01:59:08.639
airports. I'm flying here to see you and

01:59:05.599 --> 01:59:14.599
she's flying home and uh she calls me

01:59:08.639 --> 01:59:14.599
and I'm like I'm how did I do? Ah [ __ ]

01:59:16.639 --> 01:59:19.920
But but no, there's the parts that I did

01:59:18.560 --> 01:59:21.679
well and then she critiques the other

01:59:19.920 --> 01:59:24.000
parts that she didn't like. And then I

01:59:21.679 --> 01:59:25.679
say which is like it's and it's so again

01:59:24.000 --> 01:59:27.520
I'm insecure so I'm like I want the

01:59:25.679 --> 01:59:29.199
self- serving well how would because

01:59:27.520 --> 01:59:31.840
there was three of us on this panel and

01:59:29.198 --> 01:59:34.158
she's like uh and I was like you know I

01:59:31.840 --> 01:59:37.679
was the best right? She's like no Gavin

01:59:34.158 --> 01:59:39.920
was better. I'm just like it's so but

01:59:37.679 --> 01:59:40.639
it's so refreshing because it keep again

01:59:39.920 --> 01:59:41.440
it's like a

01:59:40.639 --> 01:59:43.279
>> keeps you in check

01:59:41.439 --> 01:59:43.678
>> like and it gives me a mirror.

01:59:43.279 --> 01:59:46.719
>> Mhm.

01:59:43.679 --> 01:59:48.800
>> You know like when I was coming to see

01:59:46.719 --> 01:59:52.719
you yesterday when we were flying down

01:59:48.800 --> 01:59:54.480
to LA for this thing um there's parts of

01:59:52.719 --> 01:59:57.198
me where when I'm insecure I kind of

01:59:54.479 --> 01:59:58.879
like externalize and I can be like

01:59:57.198 --> 02:00:01.198
really hyperbolic unnecessarily

01:59:58.880 --> 02:00:02.800
hyperbolic and it's counterproductive.

02:00:01.198 --> 02:00:04.079
And she said to me listen like just

02:00:02.800 --> 02:00:05.599
imagine your friends these are

02:00:04.079 --> 02:00:07.118
hardworking people. They're trying their

02:00:05.599 --> 02:00:08.800
best as well. They don't necessarily

02:00:07.118 --> 02:00:10.639
know. Some some things have massively

02:00:08.800 --> 02:00:12.159
worked out for them, but they would want

02:00:10.639 --> 02:00:13.440
to do the right thing. There's people

02:00:12.158 --> 02:00:15.039
you've worked with before that want to

02:00:13.439 --> 02:00:16.799
do the right thing. And she's like, just

02:00:15.039 --> 02:00:19.198
picture them and don't judge. You can

02:00:16.800 --> 02:00:20.880
observe.

02:00:19.198 --> 02:00:22.000
And it's crazy, but it's like I need

02:00:20.880 --> 02:00:23.679
those little things. There's like

02:00:22.000 --> 02:00:24.479
tweaks. It's like having a coach kind of

02:00:23.679 --> 02:00:26.000
like

02:00:24.479 --> 02:00:26.799
>> and that and that's very that's very

02:00:26.000 --> 02:00:28.399
helpful to me.

02:00:26.800 --> 02:00:29.599
>> Yeah. It's very important. It's hard to

02:00:28.399 --> 02:00:30.399
do that yourself.

02:00:29.599 --> 02:00:31.279
>> I can't do it.

02:00:30.399 --> 02:00:33.118
>> And it's also like

02:00:31.279 --> 02:00:34.719
>> I'm [ __ ] maxing. Like my life is like

02:00:33.118 --> 02:00:36.799
I like that flow. Mhm.

02:00:34.719 --> 02:00:38.719
>> And if if I didn't have somebody who

02:00:36.800 --> 02:00:40.239
loved me and would hold me accountable,

02:00:38.719 --> 02:00:42.719
I' just [ __ ] not think about it.

02:00:40.238 --> 02:00:44.718
>> Yeah. And the opposite of that is

02:00:42.719 --> 02:00:46.639
someone who's like an antagonistic

02:00:44.719 --> 02:00:48.719
relationship. And we know a lot of

02:00:46.639 --> 02:00:50.960
people that have those kind of very

02:00:48.719 --> 02:00:52.800
sabotagey sort of marriages and

02:00:50.960 --> 02:00:53.439
relationships. And that's crazy.

02:00:52.800 --> 02:00:55.360
>> It's brutal.

02:00:53.439 --> 02:00:56.960
>> It's brutal. And I don't think they've

02:00:55.359 --> 02:00:59.039
ever had a really good one. Otherwise,

02:00:56.960 --> 02:01:01.920
they would never tolerate that.

02:00:59.039 --> 02:01:03.519
>> I didn't know what good looked like. So

02:01:01.920 --> 02:01:06.158
you kind of just I think a lot of people

02:01:03.520 --> 02:01:09.280
go with the flow. Like I mean I was a

02:01:06.158 --> 02:01:13.039
nerdy kid from kind of a shitty [ __ ]

02:01:09.279 --> 02:01:15.599
up kind of like family structure

02:01:13.039 --> 02:01:18.158
and then I got injected into this rich

02:01:15.599 --> 02:01:19.760
high school but then I got to go back to

02:01:18.158 --> 02:01:22.158
an alcoholic father. I'm on [ __ ]

02:01:19.760 --> 02:01:24.000
welfare. Like it's like you know my my

02:01:22.158 --> 02:01:25.359
self-confidence is negative [ __ ] two

02:01:24.000 --> 02:01:26.880
units.

02:01:25.359 --> 02:01:28.719
>> Didn't have a girlfriend. You know like

02:01:26.880 --> 02:01:31.279
all the [ __ ] in high school like nothing

02:01:28.719 --> 02:01:32.880
happened for me. And so my modeling of

02:01:31.279 --> 02:01:36.559
like how to be in a relationship, what

02:01:32.880 --> 02:01:39.679
to do, it was [ __ ] zero.

02:01:36.560 --> 02:01:41.679
Um, it was zero. And so all those

02:01:39.679 --> 02:01:43.359
mistakes were mostly because I didn't

02:01:41.679 --> 02:01:44.079
understand what good looked like,

02:01:43.359 --> 02:01:45.839
>> right?

02:01:44.079 --> 02:01:47.599
>> Um, and then I stumbled into this

02:01:45.840 --> 02:01:49.199
relationship after my divorce and my

02:01:47.599 --> 02:01:50.400
ex-wife is an incredible woman. Just

02:01:49.198 --> 02:01:50.799
like not,

02:01:50.399 --> 02:01:52.399
>> you know,

02:01:50.800 --> 02:01:54.639
>> what you needed or what she needed.

02:01:52.399 --> 02:01:57.039
>> Yeah. She's we're just we were in in in

02:01:54.639 --> 02:01:59.920
a few very specific ways,

02:01:57.039 --> 02:02:03.519
>> we just weren't on the same page.

02:01:59.920 --> 02:02:05.440
And then I find this other one and it's

02:02:03.520 --> 02:02:08.960
and I think like I don't I was so

02:02:05.439 --> 02:02:10.879
skeptical. I'm like I I kind of viewed

02:02:08.960 --> 02:02:13.279
like a relationship as like this adjunct

02:02:10.880 --> 02:02:14.239
to your life. There's you you're at the

02:02:13.279 --> 02:02:16.960
center. M

02:02:14.238 --> 02:02:19.678
>> you're doing your [ __ ] and one of the

02:02:16.960 --> 02:02:21.840
appendages to your thing is you're

02:02:19.679 --> 02:02:24.079
that's what I thought and then now it's

02:02:21.840 --> 02:02:26.239
the opposite where I feel like my wife's

02:02:24.079 --> 02:02:28.319
at the center and I'm like I would

02:02:26.238 --> 02:02:30.638
always kind of like like almost like

02:02:28.319 --> 02:02:31.840
laugh at people in the in my mind I'm

02:02:30.639 --> 02:02:34.159
like it's not possible that somebody

02:02:31.840 --> 02:02:36.719
feels this way about somebody else.

02:02:34.158 --> 02:02:39.118
>> Um but it's an it's an it's a huge

02:02:36.719 --> 02:02:40.639
enabler. It's a it's a very much a gift.

02:02:39.118 --> 02:02:42.559
So that can also be a thing that people

02:02:40.639 --> 02:02:43.920
look for. You know what I mean? which is

02:02:42.560 --> 02:02:46.159
>> I think what you're saying is that

02:02:43.920 --> 02:02:49.039
there's a bunch of different things that

02:02:46.158 --> 02:02:51.439
have to sort of exist together and that

02:02:49.039 --> 02:02:54.079
it's not just completely focus on your

02:02:51.439 --> 02:02:57.198
work but that focusing on these other

02:02:54.079 --> 02:02:58.880
things enhances the work and then the

02:02:57.198 --> 02:03:00.799
work enhances all these other things as

02:02:58.880 --> 02:03:02.719
well and they all exist together

02:03:00.800 --> 02:03:05.199
>> and my best work is when I'm not

02:03:02.719 --> 02:03:07.840
thinking about the attention or the

02:03:05.198 --> 02:03:09.678
money. Those are the two most corrupting

02:03:07.840 --> 02:03:11.599
influences in my life. If I if when I

02:03:09.679 --> 02:03:13.359
look back and when I've lost when I've

02:03:11.599 --> 02:03:15.679
lost the most amount of money

02:03:13.359 --> 02:03:16.719
>> or when I've reputationally hurt myself

02:03:15.679 --> 02:03:18.719
the most,

02:03:16.719 --> 02:03:19.840
>> it's all been because of attention and

02:03:18.719 --> 02:03:21.359
money.

02:03:19.840 --> 02:03:23.279
>> Those are the only two things the root

02:03:21.359 --> 02:03:24.639
cause consistently has been that.

02:03:23.279 --> 02:03:27.039
>> That makes sense because you're thinking

02:03:24.639 --> 02:03:27.760
about a result rather than the process.

02:03:27.039 --> 02:03:28.399
>> Exactly.

02:03:27.760 --> 02:03:29.119
>> Yeah.

02:03:28.399 --> 02:03:30.719
>> Exactly.

02:03:29.118 --> 02:03:31.839
>> So, and then thinking about that result

02:03:30.719 --> 02:03:33.118
like oo I'm going to get a lot of

02:03:31.840 --> 02:03:34.639
attention from this. Oo, I'm going to

02:03:33.118 --> 02:03:36.639
get a lot of money from this. That

02:03:34.639 --> 02:03:38.560
actually robs you of the focus that you

02:03:36.639 --> 02:03:40.960
need to concentrate on the process.

02:03:38.560 --> 02:03:44.800
>> Exactly. And the the thing about the

02:03:40.960 --> 02:03:47.599
process is that so much of that when

02:03:44.800 --> 02:03:49.760
you're in a flow state you're proud of

02:03:47.599 --> 02:03:51.199
>> irrespective of the size of it because

02:03:49.760 --> 02:03:52.239
the meetings are the same. Do you know

02:03:51.198 --> 02:03:54.000
what I mean? Like

02:03:52.238 --> 02:03:56.399
>> you're in the same [ __ ] 35 minute

02:03:54.000 --> 02:03:59.118
meeting or 45 minute meeting debating a

02:03:56.399 --> 02:04:00.799
product or debating a thing.

02:03:59.118 --> 02:04:02.639
But the minute that I start to feel like

02:04:00.800 --> 02:04:04.719
embarrassed about company A versus

02:04:02.639 --> 02:04:05.520
company B or decision A versus decision

02:04:04.719 --> 02:04:07.439
B,

02:04:05.520 --> 02:04:09.119
>> now my mind is like, "Okay, hold on a

02:04:07.439 --> 02:04:09.919
second here. I'm about to run myself off

02:04:09.118 --> 02:04:10.559
the cliff."

02:04:09.920 --> 02:04:12.239
>> Yeah.

02:04:10.560 --> 02:04:13.920
>> You know, or you know, we I had this

02:04:12.238 --> 02:04:16.079
dinner last week and this is what's

02:04:13.920 --> 02:04:18.399
amazing. Like

02:04:16.079 --> 02:04:20.079
we're talking about poker. Well, I So

02:04:18.399 --> 02:04:23.519
I'm having dinner with my wife and a

02:04:20.079 --> 02:04:25.439
friend and uh

02:04:23.520 --> 02:04:27.440
she's like, "How are you doing?" Just

02:04:25.439 --> 02:04:29.759
like a very generic nice question,

02:04:27.439 --> 02:04:31.598
>> right? And I go into this long [ __ ]

02:04:29.760 --> 02:04:33.119
diet tribe of like, well, you know, the

02:04:31.599 --> 02:04:34.239
investing thing this, and then I started

02:04:33.118 --> 02:04:35.359
this other thing that. And my wife's

02:04:34.238 --> 02:04:37.439
looking at me like, what the [ __ ] are

02:04:35.359 --> 02:04:39.039
you rambling on about? And then it got

02:04:37.439 --> 02:04:41.519
But it got worse, Joe. It got worse. It

02:04:39.039 --> 02:04:43.279
got even [ __ ] worse. Then I'm like,

02:04:41.520 --> 02:04:45.199
uh, you know, but then I had this poker

02:04:43.279 --> 02:04:46.880
game. I started rambling on. It's

02:04:45.198 --> 02:04:48.158
normally on Thursdays, but then I I

02:04:46.880 --> 02:04:49.520
moved it up to Wednesdays, but then I

02:04:48.158 --> 02:04:50.799
moved it up to the city because my

02:04:49.520 --> 02:04:53.360
friend's having it. And then I name

02:04:50.800 --> 02:04:55.520
dropped who the guy was. And my wife

02:04:53.359 --> 02:04:57.519
just looks at me like, "What the [ __ ] is

02:04:55.520 --> 02:05:00.000
going on with you?

02:04:57.520 --> 02:05:01.840
So, the dinner ends. It was And then

02:05:00.000 --> 02:05:03.520
she's like, "What the [ __ ] is going on

02:05:01.840 --> 02:05:07.279
with you?" She's like, "That was

02:05:03.520 --> 02:05:09.119
insane." And I had no idea that I was

02:05:07.279 --> 02:05:10.479
doing it.

02:05:09.118 --> 02:05:11.759
And I'm like, "Okay, we need to put

02:05:10.479 --> 02:05:13.118
Humpty Dumpty back together again

02:05:11.760 --> 02:05:14.880
because I'm about to go on Rogan and I

02:05:13.118 --> 02:05:17.839
can't go off [ __ ] like a crazy wild

02:05:14.880 --> 02:05:19.520
man." Uh, but it's a it's it's an

02:05:17.840 --> 02:05:21.520
enormous gift. That's been my biggest

02:05:19.520 --> 02:05:23.920
unlock in these last like eight or nine

02:05:21.520 --> 02:05:25.920
years. Like I I feel like like I'm kind

02:05:23.920 --> 02:05:27.840
of like adding skills to my toolkit. I

02:05:25.920 --> 02:05:29.599
feel like a golfer like that's like I

02:05:27.840 --> 02:05:31.599
can shape shots a little bit now. I know

02:05:29.599 --> 02:05:34.560
how to use different clubs.

02:05:31.599 --> 02:05:36.400
>> Um and it's all like mindset

02:05:34.560 --> 02:05:38.960
>> and it's like it's very much what you

02:05:36.399 --> 02:05:41.439
it's like this processoriented approach

02:05:38.960 --> 02:05:44.239
>> and you just can't control the outcome

02:05:41.439 --> 02:05:46.000
and that's like a it's a magical

02:05:44.238 --> 02:05:48.079
feeling. It's interesting that you're

02:05:46.000 --> 02:05:52.399
saying this because like think about

02:05:48.079 --> 02:05:55.760
what most people or people that are on

02:05:52.399 --> 02:05:58.319
social media like the kind of attention

02:05:55.760 --> 02:06:01.280
that they're focusing on. Like this is

02:05:58.319 --> 02:06:02.719
why virtue signaling is so unsuccessful,

02:06:01.279 --> 02:06:04.238
right? It's so bad for it because it's

02:06:02.719 --> 02:06:05.679
fake. You're really concentrating on the

02:06:04.238 --> 02:06:07.039
process. Are you really concentrating on

02:06:05.679 --> 02:06:08.480
the result? The result is getting people

02:06:07.039 --> 02:06:09.760
to love you. Exactly. Getting people to

02:06:08.479 --> 02:06:11.359
agree with you. Getting and then

02:06:09.760 --> 02:06:12.880
worrying about the criticism. Oh my god,

02:06:11.359 --> 02:06:14.559
they hate me. Oh my god, they're mad at

02:06:12.880 --> 02:06:16.319
my my statement. Oh my god, they're this

02:06:14.560 --> 02:06:17.599
and then you're like obsessing on it all

02:06:16.319 --> 02:06:19.679
day. People that aren't even anywhere

02:06:17.599 --> 02:06:21.840
near you. It's like it's one of the

02:06:19.679 --> 02:06:24.239
absolute worst things for mental health

02:06:21.840 --> 02:06:25.920
is this addiction that people have to

02:06:24.238 --> 02:06:28.000
posting things and then reading the

02:06:25.920 --> 02:06:30.719
responses to those posts and getting

02:06:28.000 --> 02:06:33.198
wrapped up in these very weird

02:06:30.719 --> 02:06:33.520
two-dimensional interactions with human

02:06:33.198 --> 02:06:34.879
beings.

02:06:33.520 --> 02:06:36.079
>> You never read your comments. I mean,

02:06:34.880 --> 02:06:38.000
you're very famous. You're like, it

02:06:36.078 --> 02:06:39.439
doesn't [ __ ] matter to me. Well,

02:06:38.000 --> 02:06:42.960
you're going to get to a certain point

02:06:39.439 --> 02:06:44.638
in time where if you have x amount of

02:06:42.960 --> 02:06:47.039
people that follow you, you're going to

02:06:44.639 --> 02:06:48.400
have a percentage that are mad at you

02:06:47.039 --> 02:06:49.039
and those are the ones you're going to

02:06:48.399 --> 02:06:51.118
think about, right?

02:06:49.039 --> 02:06:53.039
>> And if you don't self audit, maybe

02:06:51.118 --> 02:06:54.319
that's good. Maybe it's good to say

02:06:53.039 --> 02:06:56.238
like, "You [ __ ] piece of shit." Like,

02:06:54.319 --> 02:06:57.759
"Oh, I'm sorry." You know, like what

02:06:56.238 --> 02:07:00.638
your wife saying to you like, "What the

02:06:57.760 --> 02:07:03.599
[ __ ] was that?" Like, "Ah, shit." Like,

02:07:00.639 --> 02:07:05.760
I am very self-critical. Very like

02:07:03.599 --> 02:07:07.679
horribly so. like to the point I torture

02:07:05.760 --> 02:07:09.599
myself, you know? So, I'm like, I don't

02:07:07.679 --> 02:07:11.039
need that from other people. And also,

02:07:09.599 --> 02:07:12.639
those people don't love me and they want

02:07:11.039 --> 02:07:14.078
me to fail. Like, there's a lot of

02:07:12.639 --> 02:07:16.159
people that their lives are very

02:07:14.078 --> 02:07:18.000
unsuccessful and I've been way too

02:07:16.158 --> 02:07:20.238
fortunate, right? So, it's like there's

02:07:18.000 --> 02:07:22.639
a reason to be upset at me if your life

02:07:20.238 --> 02:07:24.078
is [ __ ] because I've I've gotten I've

02:07:22.639 --> 02:07:25.440
three of the best jobs on earth. It

02:07:24.078 --> 02:07:27.519
doesn't make any sense, right? So,

02:07:25.439 --> 02:07:28.879
there's a re and also why the [ __ ] is

02:07:27.520 --> 02:07:31.360
this podcast so successful? That doesn't

02:07:28.880 --> 02:07:33.599
make any sense, right? So, it's like I

02:07:31.359 --> 02:07:35.679
get it. I understand why people, but I'm

02:07:33.599 --> 02:07:37.039
not gonna help them. I'm not gonna help

02:07:35.679 --> 02:07:39.520
them bring me down. I'm not gonna

02:07:37.039 --> 02:07:41.599
indulge in it and ruin my own mind by

02:07:39.520 --> 02:07:42.800
wallowing in their [ __ ] because the

02:07:41.599 --> 02:07:44.719
only reason why you would do that in the

02:07:42.800 --> 02:07:46.639
first place is if you're not together.

02:07:44.719 --> 02:07:49.118
No one is healthy and happy and

02:07:46.639 --> 02:07:51.279
intelligent is going to post mean things

02:07:49.118 --> 02:07:53.198
about you. So, you are reading things

02:07:51.279 --> 02:07:56.158
from people that are mentally ill,

02:07:53.198 --> 02:07:58.638
unhappy, and probably not. Maybe they're

02:07:56.158 --> 02:08:00.719
intelligent in terms of their ability to

02:07:58.639 --> 02:08:02.400
solve certain issues and problems. Maybe

02:08:00.719 --> 02:08:05.520
they're good at certain skills, but like

02:08:02.399 --> 02:08:08.000
their overall grasp of humanity and like

02:08:05.520 --> 02:08:09.599
being a good person is not good if

02:08:08.000 --> 02:08:12.238
you're [ __ ] on people, especially if

02:08:09.599 --> 02:08:13.840
you like add homonym attacks and just

02:08:12.238 --> 02:08:16.158
insults. And

02:08:13.840 --> 02:08:17.599
>> so, it's not a good thing to ingest.

02:08:16.158 --> 02:08:18.879
It's not It's like if you go down the

02:08:17.599 --> 02:08:20.480
supermarket, you see Twinkies, oh,

02:08:18.880 --> 02:08:23.199
they're right there. Don't [ __ ] eat

02:08:20.479 --> 02:08:25.919
them, okay? That's not good for you. And

02:08:23.198 --> 02:08:27.198
so it's like I don't think that at a

02:08:25.920 --> 02:08:29.440
certain point in time, especially if you

02:08:27.198 --> 02:08:30.719
become publicly known and famous, you

02:08:29.439 --> 02:08:31.839
should ever read your comments. I don't

02:08:30.719 --> 02:08:32.480
think it's good for you.

02:08:31.840 --> 02:08:35.119
>> Yeah.

02:08:32.479 --> 02:08:36.718
>> But you better be self- auditing or

02:08:35.118 --> 02:08:38.559
you'll start sniffing your own farts and

02:08:36.719 --> 02:08:39.359
think they smell great. Like don't do

02:08:38.560 --> 02:08:39.760
that either.

02:08:39.359 --> 02:08:43.118
>> Yeah.

02:08:39.760 --> 02:08:45.360
>> But you I know a lot of people that have

02:08:43.118 --> 02:08:47.598
gone crazy reading their own comments.

02:08:45.359 --> 02:08:49.519
I've met comedians that like they'll

02:08:47.599 --> 02:08:51.360
think about it all day long. It will

02:08:49.520 --> 02:08:53.199
[ __ ] with them. It will tort. Well,

02:08:51.359 --> 02:08:54.799
their neurosis are what's what creates

02:08:53.198 --> 02:08:56.238
great comedy to begin with. So, if you

02:08:54.800 --> 02:08:56.719
feed that neurosis in the wrong way,

02:08:56.238 --> 02:08:58.638
you're [ __ ]

02:08:56.719 --> 02:09:00.399
>> The wrong way, right? And then also the

02:08:58.639 --> 02:09:01.599
self-doubt creeps in because all these

02:09:00.399 --> 02:09:03.118
people telling you you suck and they're

02:09:01.599 --> 02:09:04.319
like, "Oh my god, I suck." And then you

02:09:03.118 --> 02:09:06.000
go on stage with this like, "People

02:09:04.319 --> 02:09:09.679
think I suck, they hate me." You can't

02:09:06.000 --> 02:09:12.719
do that. Like, if you

02:09:09.679 --> 02:09:13.760
have a certain amount of energy in the

02:09:12.719 --> 02:09:16.239
day, this is what I always tell

02:09:13.760 --> 02:09:18.880
comedians. I said, "Look, think of your

02:09:16.238 --> 02:09:21.279
attention and your focus as a a unit.

02:09:18.880 --> 02:09:23.520
You have a hundred units. If you spend

02:09:21.279 --> 02:09:26.960
30 of those [ __ ] units on [ __ ]

02:09:23.520 --> 02:09:28.960
online, you're robbing 30 units from all

02:09:26.960 --> 02:09:30.960
the things you love. 30 units from your

02:09:28.960 --> 02:09:33.679
family, 30 units from your friends, 30

02:09:30.960 --> 02:09:35.279
units from your job, 30 units from golf

02:09:33.679 --> 02:09:38.078
or poker or whatever it is that you love

02:09:35.279 --> 02:09:39.679
to do. You're stealing your own time and

02:09:38.078 --> 02:09:41.759
your own focus

02:09:39.679 --> 02:09:43.039
>> for loers, right?

02:09:41.760 --> 02:09:44.480
>> Like why would you do that? And those

02:09:43.039 --> 02:09:46.479
losers are good people. They're just

02:09:44.479 --> 02:09:48.959
they most people are good people. They

02:09:46.479 --> 02:09:51.279
just a bad path. I would have been the

02:09:48.960 --> 02:09:52.800
personing. Yeah. Yeah. Look, if you gave

02:09:51.279 --> 02:09:55.198
me a [ __ ] Twitter account when I was

02:09:52.800 --> 02:09:55.679
16, oh my god, it would have been

02:09:55.198 --> 02:09:56.879
horrendous.

02:09:55.679 --> 02:09:58.239
>> Yeah. I would have been going crazy.

02:09:56.880 --> 02:10:00.880
>> Oh my god. I would have been a terrible

02:09:58.238 --> 02:10:03.359
person. It's normal. Especially if your

02:10:00.880 --> 02:10:04.960
life sucks and you're not doing well and

02:10:03.359 --> 02:10:06.000
you're attacking famous people or you're

02:10:04.960 --> 02:10:07.599
attacking this person that's doing

02:10:06.000 --> 02:10:09.840
better than you or whatever it is.

02:10:07.599 --> 02:10:12.239
>> Like it's Do you uh have you seen the

02:10:09.840 --> 02:10:12.639
clips of the [ __ ] maxing?

02:10:12.238 --> 02:10:13.519
>> No.

02:10:12.639 --> 02:10:13.840
>> You don't know what this is?

02:10:13.520 --> 02:10:14.800
>> No.

02:10:13.840 --> 02:10:16.159
>> You don't know what this is?

02:10:14.800 --> 02:10:19.039
>> No. What's [ __ ] maxing?

02:10:16.158 --> 02:10:20.638
>> Oh, this guy is fantastic. He sits He

02:10:19.039 --> 02:10:23.679
sits on his back porch. Jamie, can

02:10:20.639 --> 02:10:27.118
Jamie, can you just show He sits He sits

02:10:23.679 --> 02:10:29.679
on his back porch smoking a cigar

02:10:27.118 --> 02:10:31.920
basically telling you everything's kind

02:10:29.679 --> 02:10:33.359
of [ __ ] Stop thinking about [ __ ]

02:10:31.920 --> 02:10:34.560
You know, if you don't like your

02:10:33.359 --> 02:10:36.000
friends, leave them. If you don't like

02:10:34.560 --> 02:10:38.320
your girlfriend, leave them. Stop

02:10:36.000 --> 02:10:42.319
overthinking. Simplify your life. You

02:10:38.319 --> 02:10:43.359
know, it's it's inc it's so simple, but

02:10:42.319 --> 02:10:44.238
I think it's incredibly

02:10:43.359 --> 02:10:46.319
>> Who is this guy?

02:10:44.238 --> 02:10:47.919
>> Elisha Long, I think, is his name. I

02:10:46.319 --> 02:10:48.559
don't know Jamie if you can find it. I

02:10:47.920 --> 02:10:49.920
think Elisha

02:10:48.560 --> 02:10:52.159
>> [ __ ] maxing is funny because I know

02:10:49.920 --> 02:10:53.760
about looks maxing. We talked about that

02:10:52.158 --> 02:10:56.719
recently on a podcast but that's

02:10:53.760 --> 02:10:58.079
recently entered into my mind into my

02:10:56.719 --> 02:11:00.239
zeitgeist. looks max.

02:10:58.078 --> 02:11:01.679
>> That's the clvicular, but I've only

02:11:00.238 --> 02:11:04.319
found out about that within the last few

02:11:01.679 --> 02:11:05.920
months of life because I I genuinely

02:11:04.319 --> 02:11:08.479
stay off social media as much as

02:11:05.920 --> 02:11:10.239
possible. And if I do read things, what

02:11:08.479 --> 02:11:12.479
I like to do, I like to focus on

02:11:10.238 --> 02:11:14.638
fascinating things. Like a lot of my

02:11:12.479 --> 02:11:16.718
time I spend looking at YouTube stuff

02:11:14.639 --> 02:11:18.639
because YouTube stuff, my algorithm is

02:11:16.719 --> 02:11:21.679
all like new black holes they've

02:11:18.639 --> 02:11:23.440
discovered, you know, new discoveries in

02:11:21.679 --> 02:11:26.319
terms of like what is the fabric of

02:11:23.439 --> 02:11:28.399
reality? Like I'm that's interesting to

02:11:26.319 --> 02:11:30.559
me. And if I just concentrate on people

02:11:28.399 --> 02:11:32.879
being mean or shitty to each other or

02:11:30.560 --> 02:11:34.079
the latest [ __ ] political drama, it's

02:11:32.880 --> 02:11:37.359
like

02:11:34.078 --> 02:11:38.799
>> what? I don't have much time. I'm busy.

02:11:37.359 --> 02:11:39.359
I like things.

02:11:38.800 --> 02:11:41.199
>> And

02:11:39.359 --> 02:11:41.839
>> are you are you on like Instagram and

02:11:41.198 --> 02:11:43.598
Tik Tok?

02:11:41.840 --> 02:11:46.560
>> I'm on Instagram. I do not have a Tik

02:11:43.599 --> 02:11:48.319
Tok. This is Luke Maxing. No, this is

02:11:46.560 --> 02:11:49.440
[ __ ] maxing. So, let me hear what he

02:11:48.319 --> 02:11:50.719
says.

02:11:49.439 --> 02:11:51.598
>> Who's this guy? What's his name?

02:11:50.719 --> 02:11:54.399
>> Elisha Long.

02:11:51.599 --> 02:11:56.960
>> Shout out to Elisha. being used as a

02:11:54.399 --> 02:11:59.920
poisoning of nostalgia,

02:11:56.960 --> 02:12:03.118
but to simply remind you of what you

02:11:59.920 --> 02:12:05.920
found it for. And as we grow up, we

02:12:03.118 --> 02:12:07.759
often give that up for security. We give

02:12:05.920 --> 02:12:10.719
that up so that we're accepted. We give

02:12:07.760 --> 02:12:13.760
that up to flex and appear like we have

02:12:10.719 --> 02:12:15.520
now figured things out, that people will

02:12:13.760 --> 02:12:17.599
accept us.

02:12:15.520 --> 02:12:21.440
The only way that you will truly be

02:12:17.599 --> 02:12:23.760
successful is if you are righteous and

02:12:21.439 --> 02:12:25.919
you live according to your nature and

02:12:23.760 --> 02:12:28.639
you play, man, and you don't let people

02:12:25.920 --> 02:12:31.279
take play away from you to to be at the

02:12:28.639 --> 02:12:33.359
circus and be ooed and aed and worried

02:12:31.279 --> 02:12:35.439
about all the [ __ ] Return to a

02:12:33.359 --> 02:12:38.319
state of play.

02:12:35.439 --> 02:12:41.039
>> Well, that's very good advice.

02:12:38.319 --> 02:12:42.399
Return to [ __ ] max. The best thing

02:12:41.039 --> 02:12:44.319
that you could do is return to a state

02:12:42.399 --> 02:12:46.719
of play. That's true. There's a lot of

02:12:44.319 --> 02:12:47.279
that, you know. There's a lot of that.

02:12:46.719 --> 02:12:49.198
Absolutely.

02:12:47.279 --> 02:12:49.519
>> Oh, I I I think that that is like a It's

02:12:49.198 --> 02:12:51.279
a

02:12:49.520 --> 02:12:52.079
>> It's a wise man for a young fella.

02:12:51.279 --> 02:12:53.679
>> Yeah.

02:12:52.078 --> 02:12:55.279
>> Okay. He's a jiu-jitsu guy. There you

02:12:53.679 --> 02:12:56.480
go. Look, he's getting his [ __ ] blue

02:12:55.279 --> 02:12:59.519
belt there. Or he's getting his purple

02:12:56.479 --> 02:13:00.718
belt. What is going on there? So, is he

02:12:59.520 --> 02:13:02.159
getting his blue belt?

02:13:00.719 --> 02:13:03.679
>> Yeah, it's his purple.

02:13:02.158 --> 02:13:05.118
>> Yeah. So, they're taking his blue belt

02:13:03.679 --> 02:13:06.880
off and putting his purple belt on.

02:13:05.118 --> 02:13:08.559
Yeah. See, that's he's learning. He's a

02:13:06.880 --> 02:13:10.400
martial artist. That's why.

02:13:08.560 --> 02:13:12.159
>> You think martial arts people are just

02:13:10.399 --> 02:13:13.839
more like spiritually connected to the

02:13:12.158 --> 02:13:15.359
truth? I don't know if it's spiritually

02:13:13.840 --> 02:13:17.520
connected to the truth. It's forced down

02:13:15.359 --> 02:13:19.198
your [ __ ] throat because you can't

02:13:17.520 --> 02:13:22.639
believe you're better than you are if

02:13:19.198 --> 02:13:25.279
you're getting mauled every day,

02:13:22.639 --> 02:13:26.400
you know? And there's only one way. This

02:13:25.279 --> 02:13:27.599
guy's on the path to becoming a

02:13:26.399 --> 02:13:29.839
jiu-jitsu black belt. Looks like a

02:13:27.599 --> 02:13:32.159
pretty big guy, too. That'll help. Um,

02:13:29.840 --> 02:13:33.760
but there's only one way to get a black

02:13:32.158 --> 02:13:35.439
belt in jiu-jitsu. You got to train

02:13:33.760 --> 02:13:36.800
jiu-jitsu all the time and get better at

02:13:35.439 --> 02:13:38.238
jiu-jitsu. You can't pretend you're

02:13:36.800 --> 02:13:39.760
better. You know, there's a lot of

02:13:38.238 --> 02:13:41.198
people that write poems and they suck

02:13:39.760 --> 02:13:42.480
and they think they're so deep.

02:13:41.198 --> 02:13:44.078
>> Yeah. this poem

02:13:42.479 --> 02:13:45.519
>> meaning like there's just a very simple

02:13:44.078 --> 02:13:48.319
objective measurement that says

02:13:45.520 --> 02:13:51.599
>> 100%. You either win or you lose. You

02:13:48.319 --> 02:13:53.439
either tap or you get tapped out. You

02:13:51.599 --> 02:13:55.520
know, you tap somebody or you get

02:13:53.439 --> 02:13:57.118
>> Can you get a black belt in some gym

02:13:55.520 --> 02:13:58.880
that's easier than a different gym or

02:13:57.118 --> 02:14:01.759
something like that or

02:13:58.880 --> 02:14:03.359
>> sort of kind of but not really. I mean,

02:14:01.760 --> 02:14:04.800
everybody's trying hard. I mean, there's

02:14:03.359 --> 02:14:07.439
definitely better gyms where they're

02:14:04.800 --> 02:14:09.840
more technical and their program is much

02:14:07.439 --> 02:14:11.839
more systematic and they're better at

02:14:09.840 --> 02:14:14.880
breaking down skills like how to develop

02:14:11.840 --> 02:14:17.279
skills, you know. Um there's definitely

02:14:14.880 --> 02:14:18.800
better gyms. Uh there's better schools,

02:14:17.279 --> 02:14:20.880
there's better places to learn, but

02:14:18.800 --> 02:14:22.000
everywhere you learn, you're going to

02:14:20.880 --> 02:14:24.159
have a bunch of people that are trying

02:14:22.000 --> 02:14:25.920
hard like and you have a bunch of people

02:14:24.158 --> 02:14:28.799
that are trying to learn these. And also

02:14:25.920 --> 02:14:32.239
today because of the internet, you could

02:14:28.800 --> 02:14:34.719
go on YouTube and there's thousands of

02:14:32.238 --> 02:14:36.399
tutorials breaking down new moves.

02:14:34.719 --> 02:14:38.719
Jiu-Jitsu is like endlessly comp.

02:14:36.399 --> 02:14:40.000
>> One of my one of my kids has ADHD and

02:14:38.719 --> 02:14:41.279
one of the things that was recommended

02:14:40.000 --> 02:14:42.880
to us was jiu-jitsu.

02:14:41.279 --> 02:14:44.319
>> Yeah. What is ADHD, man? It's not even

02:14:42.880 --> 02:14:47.039
[ __ ] real cuz I definitely have it.

02:14:44.319 --> 02:14:48.399
And I think I think it's a superpower.

02:14:47.039 --> 02:14:51.198
>> I think we all have it.

02:14:48.399 --> 02:14:52.719
>> I think I look I do not focus well on

02:14:51.198 --> 02:14:54.559
things that I think are boring. But if

02:14:52.719 --> 02:14:56.480
you give me something that that I love,

02:14:54.560 --> 02:14:57.360
I can't I'll I'll play pool for [ __ ]

02:14:56.479 --> 02:14:58.638
12 hours in a row.

02:14:57.359 --> 02:15:00.399
>> It's crazy. But like the reason I got

02:14:58.639 --> 02:15:02.078
back into golf is my seven-year-old gets

02:15:00.399 --> 02:15:03.598
on the course and sometimes you can talk

02:15:02.078 --> 02:15:05.039
to him and he's not making, you know,

02:15:03.599 --> 02:15:05.760
he's like just like in his own world.

02:15:05.039 --> 02:15:07.679
>> Exactly.

02:15:05.760 --> 02:15:10.320
>> And then you start talking about chess

02:15:07.679 --> 02:15:12.078
or jiu-jitsu or whatever and then we get

02:15:10.319 --> 02:15:13.359
him on the golf course and this kid is

02:15:12.078 --> 02:15:14.238
just dialed in.

02:15:13.359 --> 02:15:15.598
>> Yeah. Superpower.

02:15:14.238 --> 02:15:17.198
>> And I'm like, "Holy shit."

02:15:15.599 --> 02:15:19.520
>> And they say that that's a disease.

02:15:17.198 --> 02:15:21.279
That's crazy. Because if you find a

02:15:19.520 --> 02:15:23.360
thing that that kid loves, he's going to

02:15:21.279 --> 02:15:23.840
excel at it above and beyond most

02:15:23.359 --> 02:15:26.000
humans.

02:15:23.840 --> 02:15:28.078
>> We uh he does these chess classes and

02:15:26.000 --> 02:15:30.639
like look, he's seven. So I'm like, "All

02:15:28.078 --> 02:15:31.920
right, [ __ ] Bring it. [ __ ]

02:15:30.639 --> 02:15:35.440
[ __ ] destroy you. I'm going to

02:15:31.920 --> 02:15:38.719
[ __ ] ball you." And uh we're playing

02:15:35.439 --> 02:15:40.960
last weekend and he goes, "Oh, Dad, you

02:15:38.719 --> 02:15:42.399
know you can't castle out of check." I'm

02:15:40.960 --> 02:15:44.560
like, "Shut the [ __ ] up. I know how this

02:15:42.399 --> 02:15:47.198
game works." And I go on to beat him and

02:15:44.560 --> 02:15:48.880
I and I went to my wife and I'm like,

02:15:47.198 --> 02:15:51.118
he's six weeks away from beating me. I

02:15:48.880 --> 02:15:53.920
got to go.

02:15:51.118 --> 02:15:56.000
And then I spent I spent two days I

02:15:53.920 --> 02:15:58.158
spent two [ __ ] days on YouTube and I

02:15:56.000 --> 02:16:00.078
was like, "Okay, I got to brush up on my

02:15:58.158 --> 02:16:01.519
openings and I got to I got Oh my god, I

02:16:00.078 --> 02:16:03.439
don't have time for this [ __ ]

02:16:01.520 --> 02:16:05.040
>> But I can't let this sevenyear-old beat

02:16:03.439 --> 02:16:06.638
me.

02:16:05.039 --> 02:16:06.960
>> You know what I mean? You're going to

02:16:06.639 --> 02:16:08.400
have to."

02:16:06.960 --> 02:16:10.078
>> And I'm like And I was like, "How do I

02:16:08.399 --> 02:16:11.679
how do I stall this until maybe he's 10

02:16:10.078 --> 02:16:13.279
or 11?" Then it's like, "Okay, fine. You

02:16:11.679 --> 02:16:15.039
finally beat me. Congratulations.

02:16:13.279 --> 02:16:16.960
>> You have to think of him as an extension

02:16:15.039 --> 02:16:17.760
of you and be happy when he does.

02:16:16.960 --> 02:16:19.359
>> Oh my god.

02:16:17.760 --> 02:16:21.760
>> Yeah. That's just how it is. Look, if

02:16:19.359 --> 02:16:24.000
you're a man and you have a son, I I

02:16:21.760 --> 02:16:26.880
have all daughters, but if I had a son,

02:16:24.000 --> 02:16:29.520
I would be legitimately terrified that

02:16:26.880 --> 02:16:31.039
he'd be able to tap me. Because if I had

02:16:29.520 --> 02:16:32.559
a son, one of the first things that I

02:16:31.039 --> 02:16:33.840
would do is get them. I got my kids

02:16:32.558 --> 02:16:35.199
involved in martial arts at an early

02:16:33.840 --> 02:16:36.478
age, but I didn't force them to keep

02:16:35.200 --> 02:16:37.760
doing it. They did it for a certain

02:16:36.478 --> 02:16:38.879
amount of time, and then they went on to

02:16:37.760 --> 02:16:39.760
do a bunch of other things that they

02:16:38.879 --> 02:16:41.679
enjoy better,

02:16:39.760 --> 02:16:43.920
>> which is fine. But I think it's good to

02:16:41.679 --> 02:16:46.000
learn some skills, learn how to defend

02:16:43.920 --> 02:16:47.519
yourself so you're not completely lost.

02:16:46.000 --> 02:16:49.280
Just it's I think it's good for you.

02:16:47.519 --> 02:16:51.359
It's good to learn. It's good to develop

02:16:49.280 --> 02:16:53.519
confidence. But for boys, I think it's

02:16:51.359 --> 02:16:55.519
critical, you know, especially boys with

02:16:53.519 --> 02:16:56.639
my kind of DNA. I'm like, I think it's

02:16:55.519 --> 02:16:58.639
good to get that [ __ ] out of your

02:16:56.638 --> 02:16:59.839
system. But if I had a son, there'd be a

02:16:58.638 --> 02:17:01.119
certain point in time. I'm like, it's a

02:16:59.840 --> 02:17:04.079
matter of time before this [ __ ]

02:17:01.120 --> 02:17:06.240
can kill me. You know, it's like I mean,

02:17:04.079 --> 02:17:07.760
I'm 58 years old. If I had a 20-year-old

02:17:06.239 --> 02:17:08.318
kid, like, he'd probably kill me.

02:17:07.760 --> 02:17:09.359
>> Kick your ass.

02:17:08.318 --> 02:17:11.039
>> Probably [ __ ] kill me.

02:17:09.359 --> 02:17:12.399
>> He'd kick your ass. Yeah. It's like what

02:17:11.040 --> 02:17:13.760
am I going to do? There's nothing you

02:17:12.398 --> 02:17:15.119
can do. You just have to accept it and

02:17:13.760 --> 02:17:16.639
then hope your relationship with him is

02:17:15.120 --> 02:17:18.880
strong enough that he still respects you

02:17:16.638 --> 02:17:21.358
even though he can kill you because it

02:17:18.879 --> 02:17:23.438
can't be entirely ba. Look, there's a

02:17:21.359 --> 02:17:25.920
lot of martial arts instructors that are

02:17:23.439 --> 02:17:27.679
old and they're revered and respected

02:17:25.920 --> 02:17:30.239
and nobody wants to try to hurt them,

02:17:27.679 --> 02:17:31.679
right? Because you realize if you learn

02:17:30.239 --> 02:17:32.959
enough, you get to a certain point in

02:17:31.679 --> 02:17:35.200
time, you realize like

02:17:32.959 --> 02:17:36.718
>> I'm a much better dad to my sons than I

02:17:35.200 --> 02:17:38.159
am my daughters. And I mean this in the

02:17:36.718 --> 02:17:40.079
following way. My daughters have the run

02:17:38.159 --> 02:17:41.599
of the place. Whatever they want, I'm in

02:17:40.079 --> 02:17:43.439
love with them. I don't love them. I'm

02:17:41.599 --> 02:17:44.799
in love with them. Whatever they need,

02:17:43.439 --> 02:17:45.599
what they can just

02:17:44.799 --> 02:17:47.039
>> enamored by.

02:17:45.599 --> 02:17:48.159
>> They're just like they can control me.

02:17:47.040 --> 02:17:49.519
They just kind of send me in one

02:17:48.159 --> 02:17:50.879
direction or another. I'm just like

02:17:49.519 --> 02:17:51.760
they're I'm like,

02:17:50.879 --> 02:17:52.879
>> by the way, they know that, too.

02:17:51.760 --> 02:17:53.200
>> I'm enslaved by them.

02:17:52.879 --> 02:17:54.318
>> Yes.

02:17:53.200 --> 02:17:56.639
>> You know, and I just want their

02:17:54.318 --> 02:17:57.599
attention. Any small little shred, I'm

02:17:56.638 --> 02:17:59.039
like,

02:17:57.599 --> 02:18:01.040
>> boo your son, you keep them in check.

02:17:59.040 --> 02:18:02.960
>> Whereas like my sons, I keep the I'm

02:18:01.040 --> 02:18:04.960
doing everything that I was supposed I

02:18:02.959 --> 02:18:06.558
think I'm supposed to be doing. Now, the

02:18:04.959 --> 02:18:07.759
good news is my, you know, daughters are

02:18:06.558 --> 02:18:09.119
just different. Like, they're girls.

02:18:07.760 --> 02:18:11.599
They're just, so they don't need the

02:18:09.120 --> 02:18:12.160
same kind of like tough loveish,

02:18:11.599 --> 02:18:14.719
>> right?

02:18:12.159 --> 02:18:16.159
>> You know, but then my boys reveal their

02:18:14.718 --> 02:18:17.438
characteristics in ways that really

02:18:16.159 --> 02:18:19.039
surprise me. And I'm just like, man,

02:18:17.439 --> 02:18:21.359
this is so [ __ ] awesome. Parenting

02:18:19.040 --> 02:18:23.359
has been the best. Like, when I again,

02:18:21.359 --> 02:18:24.159
like slowing down and actually being in

02:18:23.359 --> 02:18:25.920
it,

02:18:24.159 --> 02:18:28.318
>> and I'm like, [ __ ] this is amazing.

02:18:25.920 --> 02:18:30.239
>> It is pretty amazing. And watching your

02:18:28.318 --> 02:18:31.679
kids get really good at things is really

02:18:30.239 --> 02:18:34.159
fascinating. It's fascinating. I told

02:18:31.679 --> 02:18:36.239
you this story before, but like you know

02:18:34.159 --> 02:18:40.239
my son, my oldest son, this is my

02:18:36.239 --> 02:18:41.519
17-year-old. It's just a great kid.

02:18:40.239 --> 02:18:43.359
He goes and he's like, "Okay, I'm

02:18:41.519 --> 02:18:44.719
applying for college." And I'm like,

02:18:43.359 --> 02:18:46.000
"Great. Let me take you to the Naval

02:18:44.718 --> 02:18:48.239
Academy, West Point. Let me show you

02:18:46.000 --> 02:18:49.760
these servicemies." And he sees those

02:18:48.239 --> 02:18:50.879
and he's like, "These are incredible."

02:18:49.760 --> 02:18:52.719
But then he's like, "I think I want to

02:18:50.879 --> 02:18:54.000
go to like, you know, Georgetown or

02:18:52.718 --> 02:18:56.398
Vanderbilt or whatever." And I'm like,

02:18:54.000 --> 02:18:58.718
"Hey man, that's like um just a bigger

02:18:56.398 --> 02:19:00.879
version of your high school and

02:18:58.718 --> 02:19:04.558
whatever. if that's what you want to do,

02:19:00.879 --> 02:19:07.438
you do you. And you know, um, but you

02:19:04.558 --> 02:19:09.039
know, my the I'll help you like kind of

02:19:07.439 --> 02:19:11.439
get to the starting line here, but

02:19:09.040 --> 02:19:12.719
you're on your own. And he had to get a

02:19:11.439 --> 02:19:13.920
job because I'm like, if you're going to

02:19:12.718 --> 02:19:16.879
get into these schools, you got to get a

02:19:13.920 --> 02:19:18.478
job. And so he tries to

02:19:16.879 --> 02:19:21.119
last summer, I just started [ __ ]

02:19:18.478 --> 02:19:22.558
screaming at him. And I'm like, you

02:19:21.120 --> 02:19:24.079
[ __ ] louse, you haven't done

02:19:22.558 --> 02:19:25.920
anything. And this is at like another

02:19:24.079 --> 02:19:28.159
kid's at our at our son's birthday

02:19:25.920 --> 02:19:30.558
party. I scream at him. He starts

02:19:28.159 --> 02:19:33.200
crying. I'm like, "You need to do more."

02:19:30.558 --> 02:19:35.199
Then my wife screams at him. He starts

02:19:33.200 --> 02:19:38.559
crying again. Then my ex-wife screams at

02:19:35.200 --> 02:19:40.800
him. He starts crying again.

02:19:38.558 --> 02:19:43.358
And he just goes, "I'm out of here." He

02:19:40.799 --> 02:19:44.959
walks out. Meanwhile, I start panicking

02:19:43.359 --> 02:19:47.040
and I'm like, "I got to tiger dad this

02:19:44.959 --> 02:19:48.318
situation." So, I start texting a few

02:19:47.040 --> 02:19:49.840
friends trying to figure out, "Hey, can

02:19:48.318 --> 02:19:51.439
I, you know, do you guys want to hire

02:19:49.840 --> 02:19:52.880
this kid? He's like really, you know,

02:19:51.439 --> 02:19:55.359
he's pretty smart kid. Did all this

02:19:52.879 --> 02:19:57.358
stuff in robotics, yada yada." One of

02:19:55.359 --> 02:20:01.040
them says, "I'd be willing to interview

02:19:57.359 --> 02:20:02.559
him." I call him and he's like, "Dad, I

02:20:01.040 --> 02:20:05.760
got a job." I said, 'What do you mean

02:20:02.559 --> 02:20:07.279
you got a job? Said, 'I went around

02:20:05.760 --> 02:20:08.800
downtown,

02:20:07.280 --> 02:20:12.720
went to all these places and I was in a

02:20:08.799 --> 02:20:13.840
McDonald's and um the woman was having a

02:20:12.719 --> 02:20:14.959
little bit of difficulty speaking

02:20:13.840 --> 02:20:16.398
English, so I just booked her in

02:20:14.959 --> 02:20:17.599
Spanish. I got the application. I sat

02:20:16.398 --> 02:20:20.639
down at the desk and the guy having

02:20:17.600 --> 02:20:23.359
lunch beside me said, "Hey, I heard you

02:20:20.639 --> 02:20:25.358
needed a job and uh I really like the

02:20:23.359 --> 02:20:26.720
way you talked to this woman. I'm the

02:20:25.359 --> 02:20:29.600
general manager of the car wash down the

02:20:26.719 --> 02:20:30.799
street. Come and work for me."

02:20:29.600 --> 02:20:32.079
And I said, "Well, what are you going to

02:20:30.799 --> 02:20:34.398
do?" He goes, "I'm going to go work

02:20:32.079 --> 02:20:35.840
there." And I said, "Okay, well, I got

02:20:34.398 --> 02:20:37.519
this other interview for you as well, so

02:20:35.840 --> 02:20:39.280
you should see maybe you can do both."

02:20:37.520 --> 02:20:40.640
Anyways, the end of the story is he did

02:20:39.280 --> 02:20:42.479
he did these two jobs. He worked at a

02:20:40.639 --> 02:20:44.318
robotics firm, but then he worked at a

02:20:42.478 --> 02:20:45.920
car wash. And when I tell you this

02:20:44.318 --> 02:20:48.398
story, I am so proud of this kid because

02:20:45.920 --> 02:20:49.600
of the car wash. Because that car wash

02:20:48.398 --> 02:20:51.439
thing, he was he would come home and

02:20:49.600 --> 02:20:52.960
he's like, "Man, you have no idea how

02:20:51.439 --> 02:20:54.800
people live." And I'm like, "What do you

02:20:52.959 --> 02:20:56.639
mean?" He's like, "The stuff that I find

02:20:54.799 --> 02:20:58.559
in the trunk when I have to vacuum these

02:20:56.639 --> 02:21:00.239
cars and clean out the cars." And I'm

02:20:58.559 --> 02:21:02.639
like, "Bro, that is a gift. You have

02:21:00.239 --> 02:21:04.959
given a [ __ ] gift. That is the thing

02:21:02.639 --> 02:21:06.239
that if you take with you, you'll be

02:21:04.959 --> 02:21:07.919
golden the rest of your life." Because

02:21:06.239 --> 02:21:09.280
all this other [ __ ] is all kind of

02:21:07.920 --> 02:21:11.280
manufactured. I help because I'm

02:21:09.280 --> 02:21:13.120
anxious. I'm insecure. Mhm.

02:21:11.280 --> 02:21:14.800
>> But that [ __ ] you did on your own. And

02:21:13.120 --> 02:21:16.399
that thing is what people will [ __ ]

02:21:14.799 --> 02:21:18.159
respect when push comes to shove.

02:21:16.398 --> 02:21:18.799
>> It's also jobs that suck are really good

02:21:18.159 --> 02:21:20.879
for you.

02:21:18.799 --> 02:21:22.959
>> So good. I used to work at Burger King

02:21:20.879 --> 02:21:23.599
when I was 14.

02:21:22.959 --> 02:21:26.478
>> Man, let me tell you.

02:21:23.600 --> 02:21:30.159
>> You were 14 and you had a job.

02:21:26.478 --> 02:21:32.239
>> When my dad had to stay behind like we

02:21:30.159 --> 02:21:35.039
were my dad was a diplomat in the

02:21:32.239 --> 02:21:37.039
embassy of Sri Lanka in Canada. This

02:21:35.040 --> 02:21:38.880
[ __ ] war in Sri Lanka is crazy. He

02:21:37.040 --> 02:21:41.359
writes this essay. His life is

02:21:38.879 --> 02:21:44.879
threatened. So he files for refugee

02:21:41.359 --> 02:21:47.040
status. He gets it.

02:21:44.879 --> 02:21:48.559
He gets kicked out of the embassy. So he

02:21:47.040 --> 02:21:50.160
doesn't have a job. My mom becomes a

02:21:48.559 --> 02:21:51.519
housekeeper

02:21:50.159 --> 02:21:54.000
and we're kind of toiling in this

02:21:51.520 --> 02:21:56.159
poverty cycle. So 14 you have to I had

02:21:54.000 --> 02:21:58.079
to get a job and I would take the money

02:21:56.159 --> 02:21:59.280
and you know we buy I buy the bus

02:21:58.079 --> 02:22:01.120
passes. I would buy some of the

02:21:59.280 --> 02:22:04.079
groceries. We just trying to make it all

02:22:01.120 --> 02:22:05.840
work right. And uh I got a job at the

02:22:04.079 --> 02:22:08.239
Burger King.

02:22:05.840 --> 02:22:10.239
This is another example where I was

02:22:08.239 --> 02:22:12.959
like, I'm going to go get a job. Hey,

02:22:10.239 --> 02:22:16.239
can you drive me to the interview? And

02:22:12.959 --> 02:22:18.478
my dad's like, "No,

02:22:16.239 --> 02:22:20.719
get on your [ __ ] bicycle and go." And

02:22:18.478 --> 02:22:22.398
I thought, "Bro, we need this. You need

02:22:20.719 --> 02:22:25.920
the money more than I do. Why are you

02:22:22.398 --> 02:22:27.439
making me bicycle?" But I bicycled and I

02:22:25.920 --> 02:22:28.719
got the job and I worked there. And I

02:22:27.439 --> 02:22:30.318
used to work the night shift.

02:22:28.719 --> 02:22:32.318
14-year-old kid, man. Wow.

02:22:30.318 --> 02:22:34.159
>> From [ __ ] 8 till 2 in the morning.

02:22:32.318 --> 02:22:34.799
And I would have to clean this like 8:00

02:22:34.159 --> 02:22:35.760
p.m. to 2 in the morning.

02:22:34.799 --> 02:22:36.239
>> Then you had to go to school in the

02:22:35.760 --> 02:22:38.079
morning.

02:22:36.239 --> 02:22:39.039
>> No, then I this was always like Friday,

02:22:38.079 --> 02:22:39.520
Saturday, Sunday.

02:22:39.040 --> 02:22:40.640
>> Wow.

02:22:39.520 --> 02:22:42.000
>> Thursday, Friday. Sorry. Thursday,

02:22:40.639 --> 02:22:44.239
Friday, Saturday. And then Yeah. Some

02:22:42.000 --> 02:22:46.000
days I would have to go to school. But

02:22:44.239 --> 02:22:48.559
And why did I work until two? Because

02:22:46.000 --> 02:22:50.799
when the restaurant closes,

02:22:48.559 --> 02:22:52.318
you get whatever the food is left over,

02:22:50.799 --> 02:22:54.159
right? So like you get a couple chicken

02:22:52.318 --> 02:22:56.239
sandwiches, you get like the, you know,

02:22:54.159 --> 02:22:58.799
the the version of the McNuggets that

02:22:56.239 --> 02:23:02.239
Burger King had, a couple whoppers, and

02:22:58.799 --> 02:23:04.398
you take them home.

02:23:02.239 --> 02:23:07.520
But the amount of vomit that I had to

02:23:04.398 --> 02:23:10.318
clean up the bathroom, you can't

02:23:07.520 --> 02:23:14.560
imagine, man, the a downtown Burger King

02:23:10.318 --> 02:23:16.079
near bars, you know, after closing time,

02:23:14.559 --> 02:23:16.799
the [ __ ] you see.

02:23:16.079 --> 02:23:19.359
>> Oh, wow.

02:23:16.799 --> 02:23:20.879
>> And the [ __ ] you deal with. And all I

02:23:19.359 --> 02:23:23.359
could think of was like, I just want to

02:23:20.879 --> 02:23:24.478
get the [ __ ] out of here. But that was

02:23:23.359 --> 02:23:25.359
so valuable for me.

02:23:24.478 --> 02:23:29.279
>> Yeah,

02:23:25.359 --> 02:23:31.040
>> that was so valuable for me. Um,

02:23:29.280 --> 02:23:32.560
and then I worry that my, you know, kids

02:23:31.040 --> 02:23:34.560
don't get exposed to it, but when my son

02:23:32.559 --> 02:23:36.639
got it, maybe I'm overimposing too much

02:23:34.559 --> 02:23:38.559
about it, but it's like I'm like, man,

02:23:36.639 --> 02:23:40.000
that that car wash thing is really going

02:23:38.559 --> 02:23:40.799
to be the thing that separates you in

02:23:40.000 --> 02:23:42.799
life.

02:23:40.799 --> 02:23:43.438
>> Yeah. Doing something that sucks. It it

02:23:42.799 --> 02:23:44.879
also

02:23:43.439 --> 02:23:47.040
>> just being humble and grinding through

02:23:44.879 --> 02:23:49.599
that [ __ ] you know? Do you realize like

02:23:47.040 --> 02:23:52.720
this is sometimes people they don't pick

02:23:49.600 --> 02:23:54.239
a path and they just have a job and they

02:23:52.719 --> 02:23:56.799
don't like it and they stay with this

02:23:54.239 --> 02:23:58.239
thing they don't like forever and that's

02:23:56.799 --> 02:23:58.478
not what you want.

02:23:58.239 --> 02:24:00.159
>> No,

02:23:58.478 --> 02:24:03.039
>> it's not what you want. But the

02:24:00.159 --> 02:24:04.959
development like the learning how to do

02:24:03.040 --> 02:24:05.520
something that sucks and grinding

02:24:04.959 --> 02:24:06.799
through it

02:24:05.520 --> 02:24:08.079
>> and still doing it well.

02:24:06.799 --> 02:24:09.920
>> Yeah. You know, doing it well.

02:24:08.079 --> 02:24:11.359
>> Make a make a Whopper. Be there on top.

02:24:09.920 --> 02:24:11.680
>> I know how to [ __ ] make a Whopper.

02:24:11.359 --> 02:24:12.479
>> Yeah.

02:24:11.680 --> 02:24:13.280
>> Do you know what I mean?

02:24:12.478 --> 02:24:15.679
>> Yeah.

02:24:13.280 --> 02:24:16.319
uh make the fries, change the oil, all

02:24:15.680 --> 02:24:18.880
that [ __ ]

02:24:16.318 --> 02:24:21.439
>> And then when you apply that those

02:24:18.879 --> 02:24:23.358
lessons to something you actually love

02:24:21.439 --> 02:24:23.840
and you work hard at something you love,

02:24:23.359 --> 02:24:26.318
>> magical.

02:24:23.840 --> 02:24:27.359
>> Oh, it's incredible. It's a real gift.

02:24:26.318 --> 02:24:29.519
>> It's a real gift.

02:24:27.359 --> 02:24:32.318
>> Yeah. I mean, you know, some people they

02:24:29.520 --> 02:24:34.159
don't appreciate the process, you know,

02:24:32.318 --> 02:24:36.239
and it's hard to because like when

02:24:34.159 --> 02:24:37.840
you're young and you're going through

02:24:36.239 --> 02:24:39.439
these difficult jobs and these things

02:24:37.840 --> 02:24:41.600
that suck and you don't know how it's

02:24:39.439 --> 02:24:42.960
going to turn out, you know, and a lot

02:24:41.600 --> 02:24:45.439
of times people aren't really educated

02:24:42.959 --> 02:24:47.519
in what a process actually is and about

02:24:45.439 --> 02:24:49.680
how it does develop character and it

02:24:47.520 --> 02:24:51.600
does develop discipline and that these

02:24:49.680 --> 02:24:54.159
things are actual skills that you can

02:24:51.600 --> 02:24:55.920
apply to other things in life. You just

02:24:54.159 --> 02:24:58.079
think, "God, I'm a [ __ ] loser." I

02:24:55.920 --> 02:24:59.760
have a I have a visual for this. I

02:24:58.079 --> 02:25:01.280
always ask myself, am I in the engine

02:24:59.760 --> 02:25:02.880
room right now?

02:25:01.280 --> 02:25:04.960
>> This is my way of saying like an engine

02:25:02.879 --> 02:25:07.119
room is a little hot. It's a little

02:25:04.959 --> 02:25:08.879
uncomfortable, but it's where all the

02:25:07.120 --> 02:25:10.079
[ __ ] is happening. It's where the [ __ ]

02:25:08.879 --> 02:25:12.079
is being made.

02:25:10.079 --> 02:25:13.680
>> And so I'm like, it's a little, you

02:25:12.079 --> 02:25:15.520
know, discomforting,

02:25:13.680 --> 02:25:17.600
>> but I got to be in there. And there are

02:25:15.520 --> 02:25:20.239
days where, and there'll be weeks

02:25:17.600 --> 02:25:21.600
>> where that's all I do. I'm just in it,

02:25:20.239 --> 02:25:23.039
you know? I don't I'm not good at

02:25:21.600 --> 02:25:24.318
responding to emails sometimes or

02:25:23.040 --> 02:25:27.280
whatever because there'll just be weeks

02:25:24.318 --> 02:25:29.039
where I'm in it and it's an incredible

02:25:27.280 --> 02:25:31.520
visual for me because I'm like yeah this

02:25:29.040 --> 02:25:33.280
is like where like I'm grounded

02:25:31.520 --> 02:25:37.760
>> and I like feel myself and then when I

02:25:33.280 --> 02:25:39.520
when I look at my like my health

02:25:37.760 --> 02:25:43.680
that's when like I just feel like really

02:25:39.520 --> 02:25:45.600
good about myself like not insecure and

02:25:43.680 --> 02:25:49.280
my vitals are different like it's crazy

02:25:45.600 --> 02:25:51.200
like my [ __ ] HRV like my HRV

02:25:49.280 --> 02:25:55.040
craters

02:25:51.200 --> 02:25:56.159
when I'm like just like you know

02:25:55.040 --> 02:25:57.520
insecure

02:25:56.159 --> 02:25:59.119
>> of course

02:25:57.520 --> 02:26:01.120
>> but why is that like it's it's your it's

02:25:59.120 --> 02:26:03.680
your heart rate variability should have

02:26:01.120 --> 02:26:05.200
nothing to do with your like

02:26:03.680 --> 02:26:08.000
>> disposition and your mood

02:26:05.200 --> 02:26:10.240
>> well your mind is the idea that your

02:26:08.000 --> 02:26:10.959
mind is separate from the body is crazy

02:26:10.239 --> 02:26:12.398
>> it's crazy

02:26:10.959 --> 02:26:14.398
>> it's not and

02:26:12.398 --> 02:26:15.840
>> but is your HRV lower when you're just

02:26:14.398 --> 02:26:16.799
out of sorts

02:26:15.840 --> 02:26:18.799
>> yes probably right

02:26:16.799 --> 02:26:20.000
>> I'm sure yeah I don't really monitor it

02:26:18.799 --> 02:26:21.679
that much Yeah.

02:26:20.000 --> 02:26:24.079
>> And I'm I try not to ever get out of

02:26:21.680 --> 02:26:26.159
sorts, too. And one of the ways that I

02:26:24.079 --> 02:26:28.959
keep from getting out of sorts is daily

02:26:26.159 --> 02:26:30.799
discipline. Like it's if I if I have

02:26:28.959 --> 02:26:32.159
days where I'm sure it gets out of sorts

02:26:30.799 --> 02:26:34.318
if I have a few days in a row where I

02:26:32.159 --> 02:26:36.159
don't work out, but I I work out almost

02:26:34.318 --> 02:26:38.079
every day. And if I'm not working out,

02:26:36.159 --> 02:26:40.398
I'm still cold plunging and going to the

02:26:38.079 --> 02:26:42.000
sauna and stretching. I'm always doing

02:26:40.398 --> 02:26:44.398
something. And if I don't do something,

02:26:42.000 --> 02:26:45.120
I feel like I'm [ __ ] up. And then

02:26:44.398 --> 02:26:46.719
then I can

02:26:45.120 --> 02:26:48.479
>> So, does it matter what it is? Meaning,

02:26:46.719 --> 02:26:50.478
as long as it's a routine.

02:26:48.478 --> 02:26:52.318
>> Yeah. Well, I I do it all myself. I

02:26:50.478 --> 02:26:53.760
don't have a trainer, but I write things

02:26:52.318 --> 02:26:54.879
down. I write down what I want to

02:26:53.760 --> 02:26:57.680
accomplish. I write down what I'm going

02:26:54.879 --> 02:26:59.599
to do, and then I just do it. I like a

02:26:57.680 --> 02:27:00.159
robot force myself to do it.

02:26:59.600 --> 02:27:01.600
>> Yeah.

02:27:00.159 --> 02:27:03.119
>> And then I always feel better after it's

02:27:01.600 --> 02:27:03.680
over. And it's always the hardest part

02:27:03.120 --> 02:27:05.520
of my day.

02:27:03.680 --> 02:27:07.680
>> Yeah. And so it makes everything else so

02:27:05.520 --> 02:27:08.800
much easier because it's I [ __ ] work

02:27:07.680 --> 02:27:11.120
out hard

02:27:08.799 --> 02:27:12.959
>> and so everything else is pretty easy,

02:27:11.120 --> 02:27:15.359
>> you know, because the strain like just

02:27:12.959 --> 02:27:18.000
being in that [ __ ] cold water or just

02:27:15.359 --> 02:27:20.159
going through Tabatas on a a dye bike

02:27:18.000 --> 02:27:22.318
like this shit's hard. It's really hard.

02:27:20.159 --> 02:27:24.478
Like I could die right now hard. And so

02:27:22.318 --> 02:27:26.159
everything else is like how how hard's

02:27:24.478 --> 02:27:28.639
it going to be? Oh, it's uncomfortable.

02:27:26.159 --> 02:27:31.359
Oh boohoo, you know? Like I think it's

02:27:28.639 --> 02:27:33.519
important to go through that. I I really

02:27:31.359 --> 02:27:35.520
think it is, you know? I really think it

02:27:33.520 --> 02:27:37.120
is and that that's a the difference

02:27:35.520 --> 02:27:39.920
between,

02:27:37.120 --> 02:27:43.439
>> you know, sanity and like having a very

02:27:39.920 --> 02:27:46.478
slippery grip on your your own personal

02:27:43.439 --> 02:27:50.479
sovereignty. I think a lot of it is like

02:27:46.478 --> 02:27:52.719
you have to choose it. It has to be like

02:27:50.478 --> 02:27:55.438
elective

02:27:52.719 --> 02:27:56.239
voluntary adversity. Like you have to

02:27:55.439 --> 02:27:57.600
choose to do it.

02:27:56.239 --> 02:27:59.280
>> Yeah. I that's a really great way of

02:27:57.600 --> 02:28:00.559
saying it. Voluntary adversity. If it's

02:27:59.280 --> 02:28:02.159
forced upon you,

02:28:00.559 --> 02:28:03.760
>> you can kind of compartmentalize

02:28:02.159 --> 02:28:05.280
>> and then you get angry like [ __ ] this

02:28:03.760 --> 02:28:07.359
bitter and resentful making me do stupid

02:28:05.280 --> 02:28:08.079
[ __ ] But if you force yourself to do

02:28:07.359 --> 02:28:09.600
it, you know,

02:28:08.079 --> 02:28:10.559
>> this why these special forces guys are

02:28:09.600 --> 02:28:11.120
such [ __ ] animals.

02:28:10.559 --> 02:28:12.159
>> Of course,

02:28:11.120 --> 02:28:15.520
>> they're choosing,

02:28:12.159 --> 02:28:17.200
>> right? Exactly. And they develop that,

02:28:15.520 --> 02:28:18.479
you know, this mentality when you're

02:28:17.200 --> 02:28:21.439
around other people that are also

02:28:18.478 --> 02:28:22.799
savages. You know, you just you realize

02:28:21.439 --> 02:28:25.280
like there's other people out there in

02:28:22.799 --> 02:28:27.279
the world that are not making excuses.

02:28:25.280 --> 02:28:29.680
they are getting after it every day and

02:28:27.280 --> 02:28:30.800
they are pushing every day. And the more

02:28:29.680 --> 02:28:32.800
you can surround yourself with people

02:28:30.799 --> 02:28:34.959
like that, the more people the people

02:28:32.799 --> 02:28:37.920
that complain about nonsense and the

02:28:34.959 --> 02:28:40.478
find excuses and focus on other people

02:28:37.920 --> 02:28:42.639
and [ __ ] about things and why is she

02:28:40.478 --> 02:28:44.239
doing this? Why is this happening for

02:28:42.639 --> 02:28:44.639
him?

02:28:44.239 --> 02:28:46.318
>> Yeah,

02:28:44.639 --> 02:28:48.079
>> it's loser mentality. And if you're

02:28:46.318 --> 02:28:49.439
around more winners, you know, you

02:28:48.079 --> 02:28:50.959
absorb that. You imitate your

02:28:49.439 --> 02:28:52.398
atmosphere. Yeah, it's very important

02:28:50.959 --> 02:28:55.199
and it's very hard for people,

02:28:52.398 --> 02:28:58.719
especially young people, to find

02:28:55.200 --> 02:29:00.880
positive influences and to find positive

02:28:58.719 --> 02:29:02.000
groups. And I think it's one of the

02:29:00.879 --> 02:29:03.519
reasons why a lot of young people

02:29:02.000 --> 02:29:05.040
gravitate towards podcast because they

02:29:03.520 --> 02:29:07.280
get to hear interesting conversations

02:29:05.040 --> 02:29:09.439
with really accomplished people that are

02:29:07.280 --> 02:29:12.079
fascinating that are unlike anybody that

02:29:09.439 --> 02:29:13.760
they're around on a daily basis,

02:29:12.079 --> 02:29:15.760
>> you know. And that that's also one of

02:29:13.760 --> 02:29:17.280
the reasons why it's important to find

02:29:15.760 --> 02:29:19.040
some that's why martial arts are so good

02:29:17.280 --> 02:29:21.120
for young people because you're around

02:29:19.040 --> 02:29:23.280
other people that are doing this really

02:29:21.120 --> 02:29:24.479
difficult thing and other sports too

02:29:23.280 --> 02:29:25.040
whether it's football or wrestling

02:29:24.478 --> 02:29:26.398
whatever it is.

02:29:25.040 --> 02:29:28.000
>> I actually found like you know the last

02:29:26.398 --> 02:29:29.519
few years I go out of my way to not

02:29:28.000 --> 02:29:31.520
isolate myself. That's one thing like

02:29:29.520 --> 02:29:32.079
being around other people engaging in

02:29:31.520 --> 02:29:32.560
things.

02:29:32.079 --> 02:29:33.920
>> Yes.

02:29:32.559 --> 02:29:34.639
>> Has been really healthy for me.

02:29:33.920 --> 02:29:36.079
>> Oh for sure.

02:29:34.639 --> 02:29:37.199
>> Oh my god. And I just found like what

02:29:36.079 --> 02:29:38.799
the [ __ ] am I doing? It's like

02:29:37.200 --> 02:29:40.880
everything is in my little house by

02:29:38.799 --> 02:29:42.159
myself with everybody everything comes

02:29:40.879 --> 02:29:43.759
to me. It's so odd.

02:29:42.159 --> 02:29:44.318
>> It's odd. It's really odd. Very

02:29:43.760 --> 02:29:45.520
unhealthy.

02:29:44.318 --> 02:29:45.920
>> And it starts to [ __ ] you up in the

02:29:45.520 --> 02:29:47.840
bind.

02:29:45.920 --> 02:29:49.920
>> And then your interaction with humans is

02:29:47.840 --> 02:29:50.239
only on the internet. It's terrible. You

02:29:49.920 --> 02:29:51.920
know,

02:29:50.239 --> 02:29:53.439
>> or with people that are sickantically

02:29:51.920 --> 02:29:54.318
either being paid or need something from

02:29:53.439 --> 02:29:55.120
you.

02:29:54.318 --> 02:29:56.639
>> Yeah.

02:29:55.120 --> 02:29:57.280
>> And then I think you're in a really bad

02:29:56.639 --> 02:29:57.840
place.

02:29:57.280 --> 02:29:59.200
>> Absolutely.

02:29:57.840 --> 02:30:00.799
>> Whereas like if you're in the grind with

02:29:59.200 --> 02:30:01.920
other people, they're beating you at

02:30:00.799 --> 02:30:03.039
things. It's great.

02:30:01.920 --> 02:30:04.799
>> Yeah. Yeah, if you're in a situation

02:30:03.040 --> 02:30:06.240
where there's a bunch of sickopantically

02:30:04.799 --> 02:30:08.159
connected people to you and they're just

02:30:06.239 --> 02:30:09.520
all kissing your ass and I mean we all

02:30:08.159 --> 02:30:11.439
know people that are like the heads of

02:30:09.520 --> 02:30:12.159
companies and that are just like [ __ ]

02:30:11.439 --> 02:30:14.880
tyrants.

02:30:12.159 --> 02:30:16.079
>> I think the the the the trap about being

02:30:14.879 --> 02:30:17.679
successful because it's not everything

02:30:16.079 --> 02:30:20.159
it's wrapped up to be is exactly that.

02:30:17.680 --> 02:30:22.398
You become so isolated that you become

02:30:20.159 --> 02:30:23.200
this like very caricaturous version of

02:30:22.398 --> 02:30:25.760
yourself

02:30:23.200 --> 02:30:28.240
>> because you forget what it's like to

02:30:25.760 --> 02:30:30.398
just a basic example like wait in line,

02:30:28.239 --> 02:30:32.478
be kind to other people, be polite, like

02:30:30.398 --> 02:30:32.959
be accommodating, have some empathy,

02:30:32.478 --> 02:30:34.478
>> right?

02:30:32.959 --> 02:30:35.199
>> Where are you put in that situation to

02:30:34.478 --> 02:30:36.639
do those things,

02:30:35.200 --> 02:30:36.960
>> right? You forget that you're just a

02:30:36.639 --> 02:30:38.079
person.

02:30:36.959 --> 02:30:40.879
>> You're just a [ __ ] person.

02:30:38.079 --> 02:30:42.959
>> And if you achieve some level of success

02:30:40.879 --> 02:30:44.398
that you're trying to you're trying to

02:30:42.959 --> 02:30:46.398
achieve this level of success so you

02:30:44.398 --> 02:30:47.920
elevate past being a person, you're

02:30:46.398 --> 02:30:50.398
missing the point. like you're never

02:30:47.920 --> 02:30:50.879
going to and if you do it'll come at a

02:30:50.398 --> 02:30:52.719
price.

02:30:50.879 --> 02:30:56.079
>> I thought being successful was supposed

02:30:52.719 --> 02:30:58.079
to write all the wrongs that I felt like

02:30:56.079 --> 02:31:00.478
I missed

02:30:58.079 --> 02:31:01.200
and it turns out nobody gives a [ __ ]

02:31:00.478 --> 02:31:02.719
>> No.

02:31:01.200 --> 02:31:06.479
>> And it does none of that.

02:31:02.719 --> 02:31:07.920
>> I think it's all the process. The all of

02:31:06.478 --> 02:31:08.559
life is the process.

02:31:07.920 --> 02:31:10.079
>> I agree.

02:31:08.559 --> 02:31:11.920
>> I think as soon as you think that

02:31:10.079 --> 02:31:13.920
there's a goal like, "Oh, I'm going to

02:31:11.920 --> 02:31:15.760
retire and experience my golden years."

02:31:13.920 --> 02:31:19.520
I think it's all horseshit. And that's

02:31:15.760 --> 02:31:21.920
one of my main fears about AI. My my

02:31:19.520 --> 02:31:24.000
main one of my main fears about this

02:31:21.920 --> 02:31:25.280
idea of universal high income and

02:31:24.000 --> 02:31:27.600
everyone's going to have, you know,

02:31:25.280 --> 02:31:30.720
ultimate abundance. It's like where does

02:31:27.600 --> 02:31:34.079
anybody find purpose and meaning? And

02:31:30.719 --> 02:31:37.119
where do the where do you take whatever

02:31:34.079 --> 02:31:39.760
this thing is that the mind is

02:31:37.120 --> 02:31:42.000
constructed of these these needs that

02:31:39.760 --> 02:31:45.359
the mind has that have to be satisfied

02:31:42.000 --> 02:31:48.000
in order to achieve sanity? in order to

02:31:45.359 --> 02:31:49.040
achieve some sort of like place where

02:31:48.000 --> 02:31:49.760
you can be at peace,

02:31:49.040 --> 02:31:51.359
>> fulfillment.

02:31:49.760 --> 02:31:52.639
>> Yeah, you have to do you're going to

02:31:51.359 --> 02:31:54.960
have to do something, man. You're going

02:31:52.639 --> 02:31:57.358
to have to do something. And I mean,

02:31:54.959 --> 02:31:59.438
maybe it could just be jiu-jitsu and

02:31:57.359 --> 02:32:03.040
golf and find some stuff that you enjoy

02:31:59.439 --> 02:32:06.079
doing and take some benefit in that. But

02:32:03.040 --> 02:32:08.160
boy, that's not been the case for

02:32:06.079 --> 02:32:11.039
hundreds of years. You know, that's not

02:32:08.159 --> 02:32:14.079
how human beings have exist. I mean, but

02:32:11.040 --> 02:32:17.520
also part of me says, why do we have to

02:32:14.079 --> 02:32:20.799
work to find those things? Why can't we

02:32:17.520 --> 02:32:22.079
why why is it all that?

02:32:20.799 --> 02:32:23.199
>> Well, you got to find the thing that's

02:32:22.079 --> 02:32:25.439
not work,

02:32:23.200 --> 02:32:30.079
>> right? But but I'm getting at is like

02:32:25.439 --> 02:32:32.880
why is our identity all tied up in money

02:32:30.079 --> 02:32:36.639
and and and and

02:32:32.879 --> 02:32:38.398
just things and objects and stuff. And

02:32:36.639 --> 02:32:40.239
this is a fairly new thing in human

02:32:38.398 --> 02:32:44.639
society, right?

02:32:40.239 --> 02:32:47.359
>> Why can't it transform into

02:32:44.639 --> 02:32:48.719
m like your basic needs are all met?

02:32:47.359 --> 02:32:50.640
Like nobody ever has to worry about

02:32:48.719 --> 02:32:52.159
starving again. Nobody ever has to worry

02:32:50.639 --> 02:32:53.680
about not having a home to sleep in.

02:32:52.159 --> 02:32:55.200
Nobody ever has to worry about not

02:32:53.680 --> 02:32:56.960
having healthcare. Nobody ever has to

02:32:55.200 --> 02:32:59.520
worry about not having education. So

02:32:56.959 --> 02:33:03.919
then it becomes find a purpose with your

02:32:59.520 --> 02:33:07.120
life. And as a society, can we adjust?

02:33:03.920 --> 02:33:08.960
Can we gravitate towards a new way of

02:33:07.120 --> 02:33:11.840
existing in meaning? And it would

02:33:08.959 --> 02:33:14.000
probably be great. In one way, it'd be

02:33:11.840 --> 02:33:15.680
great because we wouldn't have to be

02:33:14.000 --> 02:33:16.959
constantly thinking, why does he have

02:33:15.680 --> 02:33:19.439
that and I don't have that and this and

02:33:16.959 --> 02:33:21.919
that. Instead, it would probably be

02:33:19.439 --> 02:33:23.120
like, what can I do to get better at the

02:33:21.920 --> 02:33:24.000
thing that I love, right?

02:33:23.120 --> 02:33:26.079
>> What you know, and

02:33:24.000 --> 02:33:28.478
>> or let me be a part of a project to do

02:33:26.079 --> 02:33:30.079
something that seems implausible,

02:33:28.478 --> 02:33:31.920
>> but I feel like I'm in the engine room

02:33:30.079 --> 02:33:34.000
every day. This is great. I'm toiling

02:33:31.920 --> 02:33:36.719
with these guys. probably not going to

02:33:34.000 --> 02:33:40.000
work. Some crazy convoluted thing that

02:33:36.719 --> 02:33:42.159
has a .01 chance of success

02:33:40.000 --> 02:33:43.040
>> that can captivate a lot of people.

02:33:42.159 --> 02:33:43.840
>> Yes. You know,

02:33:43.040 --> 02:33:44.720
>> the process.

02:33:43.840 --> 02:33:45.120
>> The process.

02:33:44.719 --> 02:33:45.760
>> Yeah.

02:33:45.120 --> 02:33:47.200
>> The process.

02:33:45.760 --> 02:33:49.040
>> The process is everything. And there's

02:33:47.200 --> 02:33:50.960
no I used to like think backward.

02:33:49.040 --> 02:33:51.600
>> There is no attention in the process,

02:33:50.959 --> 02:33:53.599
>> right?

02:33:51.600 --> 02:33:54.318
>> There's only attention in the outcome,

02:33:53.600 --> 02:33:55.439
>> right?

02:33:54.318 --> 02:33:56.079
>> Do you see what I mean?

02:33:55.439 --> 02:33:58.079
>> Absolutely.

02:33:56.079 --> 02:33:59.039
>> Which is another clue and a secret that

02:33:58.079 --> 02:33:59.520
that's actually where you should be

02:33:59.040 --> 02:34:00.720
focused.

02:33:59.520 --> 02:34:02.239
>> Well, you might get attention, but

02:34:00.719 --> 02:34:04.239
that's not what you want. What you want

02:34:02.239 --> 02:34:05.840
is the process to work out. You you want

02:34:04.239 --> 02:34:07.680
to get better at whatever it is you're

02:34:05.840 --> 02:34:09.439
doing and get that thing to a better

02:34:07.680 --> 02:34:10.880
place than it is right now currently.

02:34:09.439 --> 02:34:12.639
Right. That's what you're thinking of.

02:34:10.879 --> 02:34:14.398
You're not thinking of I am going to get

02:34:12.639 --> 02:34:16.959
all this attention. I'm going to be on

02:34:14.398 --> 02:34:19.279
the cover of a magazine.

02:34:16.959 --> 02:34:21.679
Yeah. Can't It can't be that. That's not

02:34:19.280 --> 02:34:23.200
good for anybody. But everybody thinks

02:34:21.680 --> 02:34:23.920
that's what they're going to get. Oh,

02:34:23.200 --> 02:34:25.760
I'm going to get this.

02:34:23.920 --> 02:34:27.439
>> Everybody thinks that's what they want.

02:34:25.760 --> 02:34:29.040
>> Yeah. Right.

02:34:27.439 --> 02:34:30.000
>> And the problem with that is that it's

02:34:29.040 --> 02:34:31.359
not what you want.

02:34:30.000 --> 02:34:33.280
>> No.

02:34:31.359 --> 02:34:34.800
And then now we're going to completely

02:34:33.280 --> 02:34:38.159
upend

02:34:34.799 --> 02:34:40.239
potentially all of that.

02:34:38.159 --> 02:34:43.359
>> Yeah. Well, maybe it'll come inside

02:34:40.239 --> 02:34:44.478
it'll come it'll coincide with the hive

02:34:43.359 --> 02:34:46.079
mind technology.

02:34:44.478 --> 02:34:48.000
>> This hive mind thing actually that you

02:34:46.079 --> 02:34:53.359
say I find very compelling because this

02:34:48.000 --> 02:34:55.040
idea of like how do you govern an AI?

02:34:53.359 --> 02:34:57.840
Each of us individually are not capable,

02:34:55.040 --> 02:35:01.200
but I think you, me, like 10,000, 100

02:34:57.840 --> 02:35:03.840
thousand people working together.

02:35:01.200 --> 02:35:05.200
The question is, are we smarter?

02:35:03.840 --> 02:35:07.439
And I think there's a reasonable chance

02:35:05.200 --> 02:35:08.960
that that could be true. And then the

02:35:07.439 --> 02:35:10.720
other version of the hive mind is here

02:35:08.959 --> 02:35:13.358
are all these like crazy ideas that

02:35:10.719 --> 02:35:15.358
would just make the world incredible.

02:35:13.359 --> 02:35:17.600
And a group of a thousand people go off

02:35:15.359 --> 02:35:20.079
and they kind of jointly work on that

02:35:17.600 --> 02:35:22.079
together. That I find super fascinating.

02:35:20.079 --> 02:35:24.719
Like I that could be it. Like it could

02:35:22.079 --> 02:35:26.000
be like, you know, a thousand physicists

02:35:24.719 --> 02:35:27.199
are like, "We're going to create this

02:35:26.000 --> 02:35:28.478
new interstellar form of

02:35:27.200 --> 02:35:30.240
transportation." And they just go off

02:35:28.478 --> 02:35:32.239
and they're just like they don't have to

02:35:30.239 --> 02:35:34.159
worry about

02:35:32.239 --> 02:35:36.159
existing because all of that's paid for.

02:35:34.159 --> 02:35:39.359
>> Well, it also could solve all of our

02:35:36.159 --> 02:35:42.318
problems that we have with like halves

02:35:39.359 --> 02:35:44.559
and have nots. If we're all one, how

02:35:42.318 --> 02:35:46.559
could we tolerate haveotss? How could we

02:35:44.559 --> 02:35:48.159
tolerate people living on dirt floors in

02:35:46.559 --> 02:35:49.760
third world countries with no access to

02:35:48.159 --> 02:35:50.000
clean water? We wouldn't tolerate it

02:35:49.760 --> 02:35:52.079
tolerate

02:35:50.000 --> 02:35:52.959
>> because we they would be us and we would

02:35:52.079 --> 02:35:53.280
understand that.

02:35:52.959 --> 02:35:55.438
>> Yeah.

02:35:53.280 --> 02:35:58.079
>> I mean it could be like a complete

02:35:55.439 --> 02:35:59.760
gamecher in terms of human civilization.

02:35:58.079 --> 02:36:01.600
It could really move people into a

02:35:59.760 --> 02:36:03.840
complete next direction. I mean it could

02:36:01.600 --> 02:36:06.479
eliminate crime and violence. Yeah.

02:36:03.840 --> 02:36:08.559
>> Which sounds insane. Like boy that's so

02:36:06.478 --> 02:36:10.478
utopian. Like oh why don't you suck on

02:36:08.559 --> 02:36:13.039
some crystals you [ __ ] hippie. But

02:36:10.478 --> 02:36:14.398
legitimately if look if everybody has a

02:36:13.040 --> 02:36:16.560
cell phone which essentially everybody

02:36:14.398 --> 02:36:18.959
does right right now in this time and

02:36:16.559 --> 02:36:21.199
age. If we get to a point where

02:36:18.959 --> 02:36:24.000
everybody is connected, everybody is

02:36:21.200 --> 02:36:26.079
hive mind connected, you're there's

02:36:24.000 --> 02:36:28.398
we're all you're not going to just be

02:36:26.079 --> 02:36:28.719
able to drive by a homeless encampment,

02:36:28.398 --> 02:36:31.119
>> right?

02:36:28.719 --> 02:36:32.719
>> You won't you'll feel it. You'll feel

02:36:31.120 --> 02:36:35.439
it. It won't be like, "Hey, you [ __ ]

02:36:32.719 --> 02:36:37.840
losers. Hit the gas." It's going to be

02:36:35.439 --> 02:36:39.280
like, "We need to solve this. We need to

02:36:37.840 --> 02:36:41.920
get these people counseling, mental

02:36:39.280 --> 02:36:44.640
health crisis, get them off the drugs,

02:36:41.920 --> 02:36:46.639
whatever it is that's wrong with them."

02:36:44.639 --> 02:36:48.239
>> I mean, that's an incredible idea.

02:36:46.639 --> 02:36:49.760
>> Yeah. You know, like when an airplane

02:36:48.239 --> 02:36:51.920
kind of like goes like this and your

02:36:49.760 --> 02:36:53.200
stomach goes and you just feel it.

02:36:51.920 --> 02:36:54.398
>> Could you imagine like you drive by a

02:36:53.200 --> 02:36:56.000
homeless encampment and that's what you

02:36:54.398 --> 02:36:56.719
feel? Like you feel like

02:36:56.000 --> 02:36:59.840
>> something's wrong.

02:36:56.719 --> 02:37:01.519
>> And we'll all feel it collectively. If

02:36:59.840 --> 02:37:03.280
we're all connected and we all feel

02:37:01.520 --> 02:37:05.439
things connectively, we will actively

02:37:03.280 --> 02:37:07.520
work together to solve these problems.

02:37:05.439 --> 02:37:09.840
And if we're dealing with a if if we

02:37:07.520 --> 02:37:12.880
really get to a point of abundance, like

02:37:09.840 --> 02:37:15.760
true abundance, where resources are not

02:37:12.879 --> 02:37:18.799
an issue and no one's starving, we could

02:37:15.760 --> 02:37:20.478
really fix all the problems that like

02:37:18.799 --> 02:37:22.000
>> none of them are insurmountable. None of

02:37:20.478 --> 02:37:24.398
them are breathing underwater, right?

02:37:22.000 --> 02:37:26.398
None of them are flying to the sun. None

02:37:24.398 --> 02:37:29.358
of them, right? So all of them are

02:37:26.398 --> 02:37:31.599
things that could be if we took all the

02:37:29.359 --> 02:37:33.040
world's resources, socialism doesn't

02:37:31.600 --> 02:37:34.800
work, right? Why does it not work?

02:37:33.040 --> 02:37:36.720
because it rewards lazy people and it

02:37:34.799 --> 02:37:38.398
punishes ambitious people. It's not

02:37:36.719 --> 02:37:40.079
doesn't doesn't work with human nature,

02:37:38.398 --> 02:37:43.119
but it would work if you have [ __ ]

02:37:40.079 --> 02:37:45.280
hive mind. If we all we all understand

02:37:43.120 --> 02:37:46.960
what it means to put in effort. We all

02:37:45.280 --> 02:37:47.920
understood what what each other are

02:37:46.959 --> 02:37:48.478
feeling and thinking,

02:37:47.920 --> 02:37:51.600
>> right?

02:37:48.478 --> 02:37:53.358
>> And we all compiled resources and fixed

02:37:51.600 --> 02:37:57.040
all of our social problems. Like

02:37:53.359 --> 02:38:00.720
literally stop all wars, stop all crime,

02:37:57.040 --> 02:38:03.280
stop all violence, stop all poverty.

02:38:00.719 --> 02:38:04.959
Done. And then what do we do? We work

02:38:03.280 --> 02:38:06.720
together to solve whatever the [ __ ] else

02:38:04.959 --> 02:38:08.799
is wrong with you society.

02:38:06.719 --> 02:38:10.318
>> Well, it's more like what is left over

02:38:08.799 --> 02:38:12.000
that we haven't figured out.

02:38:10.318 --> 02:38:13.359
>> Think about what the world was like

02:38:12.000 --> 02:38:15.600
before the internet. It's almost

02:38:13.359 --> 02:38:16.960
impossible to imagine, but we both grew

02:38:15.600 --> 02:38:17.280
up without it.

02:38:16.959 --> 02:38:19.919
>> Yeah.

02:38:17.280 --> 02:38:22.319
>> And Yeah. And so we're entering into

02:38:19.920 --> 02:38:24.719
this new world. Think about what world

02:38:22.318 --> 02:38:26.559
was like without the hive mind, but yet

02:38:24.719 --> 02:38:28.879
we all grew up without it. Like that

02:38:26.559 --> 02:38:32.799
might be the next thing. The thing that

02:38:28.879 --> 02:38:35.759
I remember the most about that era is I

02:38:32.799 --> 02:38:36.559
had a positive sum view of everybody

02:38:35.760 --> 02:38:39.680
>> really.

02:38:36.559 --> 02:38:41.760
>> Meaning there weren't like the the bad

02:38:39.680 --> 02:38:44.079
actors were pretty bad but yeah

02:38:41.760 --> 02:38:45.600
generally like I looked up to most

02:38:44.079 --> 02:38:47.200
business people like the people that I

02:38:45.600 --> 02:38:49.439
now I feel like have been a little bit

02:38:47.200 --> 02:38:50.240
unmasked then to me were pristine.

02:38:49.439 --> 02:38:51.680
>> Oh that's interesting.

02:38:50.239 --> 02:38:53.680
>> Like the Bill Gateses of the world, you

02:38:51.680 --> 02:38:56.639
know. I was like man I really aspire to

02:38:53.680 --> 02:38:57.520
be Bill Gates when I was like 13 or 14.

02:38:56.639 --> 02:38:58.559
It just seemed like

02:38:57.520 --> 02:39:00.720
>> now you're like, why is he buying all

02:38:58.559 --> 02:39:03.760
the farmland? This [ __ ] weirdo.

02:39:00.719 --> 02:39:07.279
>> I mean, it's a [ __ ] so funny. He uh

02:39:03.760 --> 02:39:09.040
he bought this like 45,000 acres in

02:39:07.280 --> 02:39:11.280
4,500 acres. I can't get the order of

02:39:09.040 --> 02:39:13.680
magnet right uh in Phoenix to build his

02:39:11.280 --> 02:39:14.239
own digital city.

02:39:13.680 --> 02:39:14.880
>> Yeah.

02:39:14.239 --> 02:39:16.559
>> Okay.

02:39:14.879 --> 02:39:20.279
>> It's like weird. So, I bought the 1700

02:39:16.559 --> 02:39:20.279
acres beside him.

02:39:20.639 --> 02:39:22.559
>> That's hilarious.

02:39:21.359 --> 02:39:25.600
>> [ __ ] you.

02:39:22.559 --> 02:39:27.840
>> It's a very odd thing. It's a very odd

02:39:25.600 --> 02:39:29.359
thing when people get exposed and you

02:39:27.840 --> 02:39:30.639
just go like what the [ __ ] is that guy

02:39:29.359 --> 02:39:33.840
really all about

02:39:30.639 --> 02:39:35.599
>> and but also like how isolated is he?

02:39:33.840 --> 02:39:36.000
>> Oh, he's been he's been isolated for 50

02:39:35.600 --> 02:39:38.159
years,

02:39:36.000 --> 02:39:39.439
>> right? Like who are his friends and how

02:39:38.159 --> 02:39:41.119
how many people does he have?

02:39:39.439 --> 02:39:41.520
>> Must be very hard to be him actually. I

02:39:41.120 --> 02:39:42.800
I mean

02:39:41.520 --> 02:39:45.040
>> especially now that he's divorced,

02:39:42.799 --> 02:39:46.398
right? So now he's got no one going but

02:39:45.040 --> 02:39:48.640
that speech [ __ ] sucked.

02:39:46.398 --> 02:39:51.279
>> Yeah, he's I mean he has a long-term

02:39:48.639 --> 02:39:54.000
partner. Um she seems like a lovely

02:39:51.280 --> 02:39:54.960
woman. Um, but yeah, it's just got to be

02:39:54.000 --> 02:39:56.000
super lonely.

02:39:54.959 --> 02:39:58.879
>> It's got to be.

02:39:56.000 --> 02:40:01.520
>> It's not I to me it's not worth that

02:39:58.879 --> 02:40:03.039
level of I don't even know what is it.

02:40:01.520 --> 02:40:04.239
It's like material success at least

02:40:03.040 --> 02:40:06.720
measured in the outside world. I don't

02:40:04.239 --> 02:40:08.639
know what it is, but it's not

02:40:06.719 --> 02:40:10.000
it's a lot, man. This is like I like I

02:40:08.639 --> 02:40:11.680
don't know how Elon does it. Like it's a

02:40:10.000 --> 02:40:12.079
lot. It's super isolating.

02:40:11.680 --> 02:40:16.880
>> Yeah.

02:40:12.079 --> 02:40:17.439
>> It's it's just he's very by himself.

02:40:16.879 --> 02:40:19.119
>> Mhm.

02:40:17.439 --> 02:40:20.800
>> And he's going to be even more isolated

02:40:19.120 --> 02:40:23.040
in a matter of a few months.

02:40:20.799 --> 02:40:25.119
>> Yeah. And that's unfortunate because you

02:40:23.040 --> 02:40:26.880
have very empathetic, very kind of like

02:40:25.120 --> 02:40:28.079
sensitive people like that I think need

02:40:26.879 --> 02:40:30.799
other people.

02:40:28.079 --> 02:40:33.280
>> Well, he's got people around him, but

02:40:30.799 --> 02:40:35.279
he's got very few people around him that

02:40:33.280 --> 02:40:35.600
can kick reality at him.

02:40:35.280 --> 02:40:37.760
>> Yeah.

02:40:35.600 --> 02:40:40.000
>> You know, that that is a bit of a

02:40:37.760 --> 02:40:41.840
problem, but he still seems to be having

02:40:40.000 --> 02:40:43.760
fun. Every time I'm around him, we have

02:40:41.840 --> 02:40:44.239
a bunch of laughs. Like, he's fun to

02:40:43.760 --> 02:40:45.760
hang out.

02:40:44.239 --> 02:40:49.600
>> He's got an incredible sense of humor.

02:40:45.760 --> 02:40:51.920
We um Jamie and I went down uh to one of

02:40:49.600 --> 02:40:52.960
the rocket launches at SpaceX. Yeah, we

02:40:51.920 --> 02:40:56.000
went down there crazy

02:40:52.959 --> 02:40:57.599
>> and we watched from the ground while I

02:40:56.000 --> 02:40:59.359
took off, which is incredible cuz it's

02:40:57.600 --> 02:41:00.399
like how far was it, Jamie? It was like

02:40:59.359 --> 02:41:01.680
two miles away from us.

02:41:00.398 --> 02:41:03.279
>> A mile mile and a half.

02:41:01.680 --> 02:41:05.359
>> So like it's a mile and a half. You feel

02:41:03.280 --> 02:41:06.880
it in your chest. Have you been when a

02:41:05.359 --> 02:41:08.479
when a rocket launches? You been there,

02:41:06.879 --> 02:41:09.920
dude? It's bananas. The [ __ ] thing

02:41:08.478 --> 02:41:12.239
like first of all, it doesn't look that

02:41:09.920 --> 02:41:14.799
far. It looks like it's like

02:41:12.239 --> 02:41:15.600
>> maybe quarter mile. it. I don't I'm just

02:41:14.799 --> 02:41:16.559
not good at judging.

02:41:15.600 --> 02:41:20.479
>> This is a starship.

02:41:16.559 --> 02:41:22.239
>> Oh yeah. So you feel it.

02:41:20.478 --> 02:41:24.959
You like his kids started crying like we

02:41:22.239 --> 02:41:27.119
want to go inside. Like it's disturbing

02:41:24.959 --> 02:41:29.039
like the amount of energy that's coming

02:41:27.120 --> 02:41:31.120
out of these [ __ ] rocket boosters.

02:41:29.040 --> 02:41:33.359
And then I hung out with him in the

02:41:31.120 --> 02:41:34.960
command center while the rocket was

02:41:33.359 --> 02:41:37.120
flying through space and we're watching

02:41:34.959 --> 02:41:39.599
it on all these monitors and then lands

02:41:37.120 --> 02:41:41.600
in the water in Australia. He's cracking

02:41:39.600 --> 02:41:43.840
jokes the whole time because the thing

02:41:41.600 --> 02:41:45.760
is like losing pressure because it's

02:41:43.840 --> 02:41:47.280
they're stress testing all the stuff

02:41:45.760 --> 02:41:48.960
which is really funny when really dumb

02:41:47.280 --> 02:41:51.040
people, oh he's a [ __ ] dumbass, his

02:41:48.959 --> 02:41:53.119
rockets keep blowing up. Like like they

02:41:51.040 --> 02:41:55.680
just don't understand like the only way

02:41:53.120 --> 02:41:58.000
you find out what the capability of this

02:41:55.680 --> 02:41:59.600
technology is is you have to like let it

02:41:58.000 --> 02:42:01.359
blow up and then you go, "Okay, it needs

02:41:59.600 --> 02:42:02.800
to be thicker. It needs to be this and

02:42:01.359 --> 02:42:04.720
that and we need to add these things and

02:42:02.799 --> 02:42:06.318
there's sensors everywhere." And so he's

02:42:04.719 --> 02:42:07.679
cracking jokes the entire time while

02:42:06.318 --> 02:42:09.760
this thing is like losing pressure. And

02:42:07.680 --> 02:42:12.239
it eventually wound up landing and it

02:42:09.760 --> 02:42:14.398
was fine, but it did have a hole in it.

02:42:12.239 --> 02:42:15.920
But it was just like he's laughing like

02:42:14.398 --> 02:42:16.799
he's having a good old time. He's not

02:42:15.920 --> 02:42:19.200
freaked out. No,

02:42:16.799 --> 02:42:19.840
>> you know, he he's uniquely built to

02:42:19.200 --> 02:42:22.640
handle it.

02:42:19.840 --> 02:42:25.280
>> I uh when there was a rocket launch in

02:42:22.639 --> 02:42:28.478
Vraenberg in California and I chartered

02:42:25.280 --> 02:42:30.159
a Pilates and I because you can get like

02:42:28.478 --> 02:42:32.559
a little like propeller plane.

02:42:30.159 --> 02:42:34.559
>> Oh, okay. And I went around and around

02:42:32.559 --> 02:42:36.239
and I have this video of it kind of like

02:42:34.559 --> 02:42:39.879
coming up and through cuz like

02:42:36.239 --> 02:42:39.879
>> how close were you?

02:42:40.559 --> 02:42:42.159
>> 100 miles.

02:42:41.600 --> 02:42:43.760
>> Oh wow.

02:42:42.159 --> 02:42:44.159
>> But you but it's like right there.

02:42:43.760 --> 02:42:46.398
>> Uhhuh.

02:42:44.159 --> 02:42:48.159
>> You know cuz the distance and it's

02:42:46.398 --> 02:42:50.478
coming up and I'm kind of going around.

02:42:48.159 --> 02:42:51.840
It was the craziest thing. It was cool.

02:42:50.478 --> 02:42:53.119
It was super cool.

02:42:51.840 --> 02:42:55.920
>> That [ __ ] is super cool.

02:42:53.120 --> 02:42:58.319
>> It's very cool. It's very cool. I mean

02:42:55.920 --> 02:42:59.439
just Starbase is bananas. Just when you

02:42:58.318 --> 02:43:00.879
go down there and they have their own

02:42:59.439 --> 02:43:02.239
town, the whole thing is straight.

02:43:00.879 --> 02:43:03.679
There's [ __ ] cyber trucks everywhere.

02:43:02.239 --> 02:43:04.639
I'm like, how do you find your car?

02:43:03.680 --> 02:43:06.800
Like,

02:43:04.639 --> 02:43:08.559
>> is it is it an incorporated town? It

02:43:06.799 --> 02:43:09.279
started off as unincorporated, but it

02:43:08.559 --> 02:43:11.039
own thing now.

02:43:09.280 --> 02:43:12.319
>> I believe it's its own town. And

02:43:11.040 --> 02:43:13.840
>> is there a mayor?

02:43:12.318 --> 02:43:16.318
>> That's a good question. I think there

02:43:13.840 --> 02:43:19.520
is. I think we talked about this. I

02:43:16.318 --> 02:43:23.519
don't remember though. But the actual

02:43:19.520 --> 02:43:25.120
factory itself is nuts cuz I Jamie and I

02:43:23.520 --> 02:43:26.479
were both like, "This is way bigger than

02:43:25.120 --> 02:43:27.840
I thought it was going to be." And the

02:43:26.478 --> 02:43:29.760
rockets are way bigger than you thought.

02:43:27.840 --> 02:43:30.318
And like the garage doors are [ __ ]

02:43:29.760 --> 02:43:33.280
bananas.

02:43:30.318 --> 02:43:37.199
>> They got a city government website

02:43:33.280 --> 02:43:39.120
commission mayor.

02:43:37.200 --> 02:43:41.600
>> That's crazy.

02:43:39.120 --> 02:43:42.479
>> Bobby Bobby Peted. Bobby Peted is the

02:43:41.600 --> 02:43:43.840
mayor.

02:43:42.478 --> 02:43:44.159
>> They have their own little Bobby. That's

02:43:43.840 --> 02:43:46.079
awesome.

02:43:44.159 --> 02:43:47.279
>> Irish pub and it's like it's really

02:43:46.079 --> 02:43:48.879
cool. They have really good food. you

02:43:47.279 --> 02:43:50.800
know, when he uh when he opened the

02:43:48.879 --> 02:43:54.079
first uh Gigafactory, which was in

02:43:50.799 --> 02:43:55.759
Nevada, we had a party and uh like it

02:43:54.079 --> 02:43:58.959
was like a small opening thing and so we

02:43:55.760 --> 02:44:00.800
all drove in there and I have a video of

02:43:58.959 --> 02:44:04.239
me in a just like a pickup truck driving

02:44:00.799 --> 02:44:06.559
into the thing. I started the video and

02:44:04.239 --> 02:44:08.559
I think it was 43 seconds until it

02:44:06.559 --> 02:44:10.159
ended. And this is like, you know, a

02:44:08.559 --> 02:44:12.719
decade ago and I thought to myself, this

02:44:10.159 --> 02:44:14.719
is implausible. Like I've never even

02:44:12.719 --> 02:44:16.639
contemplated things that could be built

02:44:14.719 --> 02:44:17.920
this big. I didn't think it was allowed.

02:44:16.639 --> 02:44:19.199
I don't even know how something like

02:44:17.920 --> 02:44:21.760
this works.

02:44:19.200 --> 02:44:23.120
>> And I was like, how does how do you

02:44:21.760 --> 02:44:24.239
envision this whole thing works? Like

02:44:23.120 --> 02:44:27.040
simple.

02:44:24.239 --> 02:44:29.920
>> Raw materials in the front, cars out the

02:44:27.040 --> 02:44:32.479
back.

02:44:29.920 --> 02:44:33.279
I'm like, that's it. It sounds so

02:44:32.478 --> 02:44:35.358
simple.

02:44:33.279 --> 02:44:36.800
>> Well, he thinks big.

02:44:35.359 --> 02:44:38.880
>> He thinks big. And thank God he's

02:44:36.799 --> 02:44:41.199
around. I mean, if he wasn't around, if

02:44:38.879 --> 02:44:42.719
he hadn't purchased Twitter, I think our

02:44:41.200 --> 02:44:43.279
entire civilization would look very

02:44:42.719 --> 02:44:44.000
different.

02:44:43.279 --> 02:44:45.600
>> Very different.

02:44:44.000 --> 02:44:46.879
>> It would. I mean, that sounds like a

02:44:45.600 --> 02:44:48.079
very grandiose thing to say.

02:44:46.879 --> 02:44:50.000
>> Sounds hyperbolic, but you're right.

02:44:48.079 --> 02:44:52.799
>> I think it's true because I don't I

02:44:50.000 --> 02:44:55.120
think free speech is a core component of

02:44:52.799 --> 02:44:56.398
our civilization, and I don't really

02:44:55.120 --> 02:44:58.479
think we had it.

02:44:56.398 --> 02:45:00.639
>> I think it was curated, and it was very

02:44:58.478 --> 02:45:01.920
tightly controlled by the actual federal

02:45:00.639 --> 02:45:05.199
government, which is spooky.

02:45:01.920 --> 02:45:06.478
>> No, no. It decided what we should be

02:45:05.200 --> 02:45:08.079
paying attention to. Yes.

02:45:06.478 --> 02:45:09.438
>> Just just put it very simply without

02:45:08.079 --> 02:45:10.959
kind of like

02:45:09.439 --> 02:45:13.279
>> And that's not right.

02:45:10.959 --> 02:45:16.000
>> Right. Because when they're telling you

02:45:13.279 --> 02:45:19.359
to pay attention to this and the actual

02:45:16.000 --> 02:45:21.200
issue is this and you cannot, then you

02:45:19.359 --> 02:45:21.600
can't fix what's actually broken,

02:45:21.200 --> 02:45:23.680
>> right?

02:45:21.600 --> 02:45:26.079
>> And you start to we start to basically

02:45:23.680 --> 02:45:27.920
be like we're we're part of just a a

02:45:26.079 --> 02:45:28.318
useful idiot for these people.

02:45:27.920 --> 02:45:29.359
>> Yes.

02:45:28.318 --> 02:45:31.119
>> And that's not right.

02:45:29.359 --> 02:45:32.720
>> It's not right.

02:45:31.120 --> 02:45:33.920
>> Listen, man. This was a lot of fun. It's

02:45:32.719 --> 02:45:35.358
always great to talk to you. Thank you

02:45:33.920 --> 02:45:38.799
very much for doing this. It was very

02:45:35.359 --> 02:45:40.239
cool. Um let's do it again sometime. All

02:45:38.799 --> 02:45:42.799
right. Thank you. All right. Bye,

02:45:40.239 --> 02:45:42.799
everybody.