[00:00] two one boom and we're live first of all
[00:03] cheers gentlemen let's have a little
[00:05] toast relax bob thank you very much for
[00:08] doing this i really appreciate it i
[00:09] understand
[00:10] that you've told this story many many
[00:13] times you've been grilled many many
[00:15] times and it's very stressful for you so
[00:17] i really really appreciate your time
[00:19] for people who don't know the story
[00:22] there is a documentary
[00:24] jeremy corbell has a documentary out
[00:26] right now it's called bob lazar area 51
[00:30] and ufos and flying saucers and flying
[00:32] saucers bombs are air 51 and flying okay
[00:35] um
[00:36] i first heard your story decades ago
[00:39] i've i told you last night we went out
[00:40] to dinner i've seen pretty much every
[00:43] interview you've ever given i've
[00:44] followed the story incredibly closely
[00:46] but for people who don't know the story
[00:48] let's give them the bullet points you
[00:53] used to work
[00:54] at area 51 in area 51 you got you you
[00:58] went like
[00:59] well you know we want to be accurate
[01:01] okay area s4 s4 okay it's about 15 miles
[01:04] south of area 51. okay
[01:07] um
[01:08] you
[01:08] worked
[01:10] in
[01:11] what would you how would you describe it
[01:13] i i guess
[01:14] within the area 51 compound you can call
[01:17] that a subset of area 51.
[01:19] and you got that job before that you
[01:22] were working
[01:23] before that i had worked at los alamos
[01:25] right national labs in new mexico and
[01:28] you were involved in what kind of work
[01:30] nuclear weapon development physics i
[01:32] mean that's they do everything there so
[01:35] how do they approach you
[01:37] to say hey bob once you come on out to
[01:39] the nevada desert
[01:42] well the way this went down was
[01:45] um
[01:47] at that time it was 1982
[01:49] i
[01:51] had put
[01:52] a jet engine in my my honda
[01:56] and los alamos put it on the front page
[01:59] of the paper
[02:01] said you know uh
[02:02] los alamos man physicist at the lab you
[02:05] know
[02:06] built this 200 mile an hour you know on
[02:08] the jet car that i drove to work every
[02:11] day
[02:11] so uh so i was known in los alamos the
[02:15] guy with the weird car and you know you
[02:16] could hear it from you know a mile away
[02:19] anyway
[02:21] the day that came out on the front page
[02:23] of the paper
[02:24] was the day edward teller the father of
[02:26] the hydrogen bomb was giving
[02:28] a lecture
[02:30] down there at the lab
[02:32] and we didn't have much going on that
[02:34] day in our group and i asked if i could
[02:36] go down there
[02:38] and
[02:39] i went down there early and ed teller
[02:42] was outside
[02:44] leaning on a brick wall there and
[02:46] reading the front page of the paper now
[02:48] there's a guy out of history so i
[02:50] introduced myself hey i'm the guy you're
[02:52] reading about there and we talked for a
[02:53] little while and it was cool
[02:55] uh you know fast forward to years later
[02:57] i had moved out to las vegas
[02:59] and had you know left los alamos and
[03:02] you know went on to other things and i
[03:04] wanted to get back into the scientific
[03:05] community yeah i left start other
[03:08] businesses and
[03:09] and that sort of thing so i sent resumes
[03:12] out and one of them went out to ed
[03:13] teller and referenced our meeting
[03:17] you know back back in that the day
[03:19] and uh anyway he remembered me
[03:22] and
[03:23] gave me a reference somebody to contact
[03:25] at egng
[03:26] and that's pretty much how it started
[03:29] so
[03:30] you get a phone call or a letter like
[03:33] what do you get
[03:36] well i got a
[03:38] what did i get i got a letter initially
[03:41] and um went down for an interview
[03:43] probably a couple times and it was down
[03:45] at eg g special projects which was um
[03:48] at mccarran airport at that time out in
[03:50] las vegas and did they give you any sort
[03:53] of job description of what you were
[03:54] applying for um they said it was for ed
[03:59] i can't remember exactly what they did
[04:00] this was a long time ago but i i think
[04:03] it was um
[04:04] advanced propulsion or something like
[04:06] that something relatively generic and
[04:08] they said it's in a remote area
[04:11] um
[04:12] you know it's gonna be some days on some
[04:14] days off and um
[04:16] you know it was kind of a
[04:18] it was kind of uh not exactly a
[04:21] full-time job but you might have to be
[04:22] out there for two weeks at a time and
[04:25] take two weeks off so it was kind of uh
[04:27] the work schedule would be kind of
[04:29] broken up
[04:30] and did this seem attractive to you or
[04:32] did it seem weird
[04:34] no it really wasn't weird because people
[04:36] that work at the test site anybody
[04:37] that's familiar with the area up there
[04:39] um you know working at the nuclear test
[04:41] site uh or at the tonopod test range
[04:44] north of there uh that's typically how
[04:47] things go so you had known about it from
[04:49] the scientific community because the
[04:51] area 51 at that time was no they didn't
[04:53] say anything about area 51. okay so they
[04:55] just said it was in a you know in a
[04:57] remote location and you just know it was
[05:00] up at the test site right so but there
[05:02] was no mention of area 51 at that time
[05:04] so they've done
[05:05] hundreds of nuclear tests in nevada and
[05:08] nevada that whole area was there's been
[05:10] there's giant chunks of nevada the
[05:12] people yeah there's a big piece of
[05:14] nevada and it's split up into different
[05:16] areas there's a nuclear test site
[05:17] there's area 51 there's the tonopod test
[05:20] range north of that there's little
[05:22] sub-areas there's areas where they test
[05:23] chemical weapons and things like that so
[05:25] it's all broken up as a you know
[05:27] gigantic test area so take me back to
[05:29] first day on the job
[05:31] you accept a job
[05:33] they take you out there
[05:34] yeah
[05:36] it's um
[05:39] the first day really i didn't really get
[05:41] to see a whole lot the first day was
[05:42] essentially just paperwork that's when i
[05:44] flew into area 51 proper
[05:47] and i left mccarran airport
[05:50] and flew what they call the janet
[05:51] flights
[05:52] just um
[05:54] you know a passenger plane from las
[05:56] vegas to area 51
[05:59] and it was really just going through
[06:02] a mountain of paperwork that day
[06:05] from security clearances to um
[06:08] god there was
[06:09] it was like two or three hours of just
[06:11] solid paperwork and that was that was
[06:13] really an uneventful first day
[06:16] when did things get weird
[06:21] when did you realize that at what point
[06:23] in time did you say hey
[06:25] this is not
[06:27] normal work like this doesn't even seem
[06:30] like it's from this planet
[06:32] that i can't tell you what day that
[06:34] occurred on because so much time has
[06:36] gone by
[06:37] the days have kind of fused into one and
[06:39] i can't separate the days was it a slow
[06:42] burn or was there a moment of
[06:44] recognition
[06:45] well the
[06:47] the first inkling i had was when i i
[06:50] came in normal there's this facility
[06:52] that is at s4
[06:54] it's in the side of a mountain
[06:56] and
[06:57] normally we had pulled in with the bus
[07:00] and gone around the front through a
[07:02] normal double door
[07:04] this time that i went in there were
[07:06] hangar doors open
[07:08] i went into the hangar door and in the
[07:10] hangar door was the disc the flying
[07:12] saucer that i worked on
[07:14] i saw it sitting there and we walked by
[07:16] it had a little american flag stuck on
[07:18] the side and i thought oh my god this
[07:21] finally explains all the flying saucer
[07:23] stories this is just an advanced fighter
[07:25] and it this is [ __ ] hilarious right
[07:28] so i went by i slid my hand alongside it
[07:31] i got reprimanded immediately for
[07:32] touching the thing
[07:34] and uh there was a guy an armed guard
[07:35] that followed us in and just said keep
[07:37] your eyes at forward and your hands at
[07:39] your side and just walk in the door so
[07:41] that was the first time i had seen
[07:44] anything that was weird
[07:47] it was some time later that i was
[07:49] introduced to my um
[07:51] my lab partner barry
[07:53] and we had some of the subcomponents of
[07:55] the craft
[07:57] in the lab
[07:58] and barry was very anxious to get a new
[08:01] lab partner so he was very talkative and
[08:03] couldn't wait to show me different
[08:04] things and it was in the demonstration
[08:07] of the reactor working where it caught
[08:10] my attention to where
[08:13] this is technology that doesn't even
[08:15] exist
[08:17] so i mean that was the first time i knew
[08:19] that this is
[08:20] really something different what was it
[08:23] what was it what was a
[08:25] what was it about this reactor that made
[08:28] you think that it didn't exist
[08:32] technologically well it was the i
[08:34] actually have to back up because there
[08:35] were some briefings that i read it
[08:37] before that
[08:38] that
[08:40] you know certainly gave me the
[08:42] impression that this was going to be a
[08:44] weird job but this was the first
[08:45] hands-on thing
[08:47] this was a small reactor about the size
[08:49] of a hemisphere about the size of a
[08:51] basketball
[08:52] on a metal plate and when it was running
[08:55] it produced a gravitational field a
[08:57] gravitational field of its own now this
[08:59] is something that we can't do we can't
[09:01] produce any gravity the only way we get
[09:04] gravity is from large quantities of mass
[09:07] but there's no machine we can have that
[09:09] turns on that makes gravity like
[09:11] you know you can turn on an
[09:12] electromagnet and it makes a magnetic
[09:14] field we can't make a gravitational
[09:16] field anyway this device was producing
[09:19] that and barry said
[09:21] almost like he was bragging go ahead try
[09:23] and try and touch the sphere and i i
[09:26] couldn't it would it pushed my hands
[09:27] away just like two like poles of a
[09:29] magnet so that was uh so like when you
[09:31] take two magnets and try to press them
[09:32] together yeah you have this each other
[09:34] yeah kind of cushion feeling but you
[09:36] can't you can't get them together the
[09:38] closer you put them the more they push
[09:39] but then you felt that physically with
[09:41] my hand yeah now there's nothing there's
[09:43] nothing that does that
[09:44] and that immediately caught my attention
[09:46] going wow this is something else what
[09:49] was your thought like when you felt that
[09:51] and you knew that there was nothing that
[09:53] you were aware of that could produce
[09:55] that connected me to the briefings that
[09:57] i read
[09:59] on the the first day at s4 was that uh
[10:02] you know everything that i had read was
[10:04] apparently accurate
[10:06] what were you reading
[10:08] i read it was kind of an overview
[10:11] this project
[10:12] was to back engineer
[10:15] the alien craft and
[10:17] specifically it was to try and back
[10:20] engineer and see if we can duplicate the
[10:22] technology with available materials
[10:26] now to do this they split the project
[10:28] into
[10:29] you know many different pieces for
[10:31] several reasons they do this on all
[10:33] classified projects so uh nobody has the
[10:36] complete story but uh they
[10:38] compartmentalize everything now we had
[10:40] the power and propulsion system so what
[10:43] the briefings they gave me were like a
[10:44] one or two page overview of some of the
[10:46] other projects that were going on you
[10:49] know on the craft the only reason they
[10:51] do that is just in case what you're
[10:53] working on is connected intimately in
[10:55] some way that we don't know of to one of
[10:57] the other projects you have to know
[10:58] there excuse me their existence so
[11:02] um
[11:03] you know i but
[11:05] again everything from metallurgy to
[11:08] um you know weapon potential the craft
[11:11] and these were all you know essentially
[11:13] very short briefings but mine was just
[11:16] power and propulsion and
[11:19] it made it very clear that what i read
[11:21] was accurate
[11:23] so when you're reading that before you
[11:25] actually saw the reactor
[11:28] what were your thoughts on what they
[11:29] were describing
[11:32] if you knew that something like that
[11:33] didn't exist
[11:35] and they're describing it in the
[11:36] briefings
[11:38] what did you think you were going to see
[11:40] i really i i didn't know at the time i
[11:42] mean i was reading i thought is this
[11:44] just some kind of test
[11:45] um
[11:46] see if you're crazy well not to see if
[11:48] i'm crazy to
[11:50] you know a lot of times they'll take in
[11:51] real high security
[11:53] uh
[11:54] jobs i mean they'll intentionally insert
[11:57] nonsense into them um whether it's to
[12:00] confuse the fact or if for someone was
[12:02] to leak it out
[12:03] they would carry that information along
[12:05] and know where it came from so
[12:07] i
[12:08] read through the documents but you know
[12:10] i didn't know if this was you know part
[12:12] of some kind of test or um
[12:16] you know or what or was it potentially
[12:18] realistic i mean i really didn't
[12:20] consider it being
[12:22] all that possible as far as being uh
[12:25] the actual thing that i was going to
[12:27] work on at the time how did they turn it
[12:29] on
[12:30] the the reactor yeah the reactor can be
[12:32] turned on or turned off in a lot of
[12:34] different ways um the way barry showed
[12:37] me at the hemisphere is removed
[12:40] there's a small tower in the middle when
[12:42] you put the hemisphere on the reactor
[12:44] activates
[12:45] the reactor shuts down it's it's load
[12:48] sensing so if there's if there's no load
[12:51] on the reactor at all it shuts down when
[12:53] there's a load present on it it starts
[12:56] up again load meaning
[12:58] you can consider it an electrical load
[13:01] so
[13:02] although it doesn't necessarily operate
[13:06] electrically there's no wiring that
[13:08] connects any of the sub components
[13:10] together whatsoever they just have to be
[13:11] in the immediate vicinity it's uh
[13:14] it is but the stuff is borderline magic
[13:18] and that's essentially where we left it
[13:20] you know when i left the project
[13:23] so there was no progress made
[13:25] there was some progress i mean we did
[13:27] identify at least we think some
[13:29] processes and
[13:30] and had a rough idea we think of what
[13:33] was going on but
[13:35] i think this is a problem
[13:37] that they've had for a long time
[13:39] and um
[13:40] you know i was replacing somebody
[13:43] that barry worked with prior to me and i
[13:45] think there was some horrific accident
[13:47] that i didn't have a whole lot of
[13:49] information on but you know barry
[13:51] alluded to that
[13:53] horrific accident like where someone
[13:54] died or yeah where somebody died because
[13:57] they were trying to tamper with things
[13:59] or figure out how something worked yeah
[14:01] the reactor in particular
[14:03] but yeti let you touch it
[14:05] yeah i think what they were trying to do
[14:07] was cut into one now they had they had
[14:10] more than one there and they that was
[14:12] supposedly there was an unannounced
[14:14] nuclear test
[14:15] and
[14:16] that's what it was at the time remember
[14:18] they would still do an underground
[14:19] nuclear test at the test site um but
[14:22] from what i understand according to
[14:24] barry there was an attempt made now this
[14:26] must have been a pretty desperate intent
[14:28] because it's not a very scientific
[14:30] process to cut you know analyze
[14:32] something that way but it looked like
[14:34] they used a plasma cutter or something
[14:36] like that to cut into an
[14:38] operating reactor how many of these
[14:40] things did they have they had nine nine
[14:42] craft altogether i only got hands on
[14:45] with one of them so i can't really
[14:47] say what the how the others operated did
[14:50] you see the other ones yeah at one time
[14:52] and only one time the bay doors that
[14:54] between the hangers were all open and i
[14:57] could see all the way through
[14:59] and
[15:00] were they all exactly the same no they
[15:02] were all different different shapes yeah
[15:05] but they were all from somewhere else
[15:07] yeah absolutely
[15:09] now
[15:10] did anyone make any attempt to explain
[15:13] or to
[15:14] to tell you where they came from no no
[15:17] no one is the least bit interested in
[15:19] letting everybody know
[15:21] all the facts they want to give you the
[15:23] minimum information that's necessary to
[15:25] complete your task so
[15:27] you're not getting the story of where
[15:28] they came from you're not getting the
[15:30] story of what how much progress other
[15:32] people are making you just focus on
[15:35] the small component but they gave you
[15:37] some indication that they've been
[15:38] working on these for a while yeah
[15:41] when do you think they
[15:43] acquired these
[15:45] i really couldn't say
[15:47] i think they've been around for a while
[15:50] so
[15:51] they bring you into this room you
[15:54] see this reactor working you you realize
[15:57] this is nothing that as far as like the
[15:59] scientific community at current time
[16:02] has the ability to create
[16:05] we still don't
[16:06] what is your life like from that moment
[16:08] on is that where everything changes
[16:09] because you do you i mean i would
[16:11] imagine the moment you actually make
[16:13] contact with something that's
[16:15] extraterrestrial whether it's an object
[16:17] or a being something where you can
[16:19] actually absolutely be certain it's not
[16:22] from here
[16:23] your whole paradigm the whole world you
[16:26] live in is now a different place well
[16:28] this is the only time it became exciting
[16:31] you know the rest of the time the it was
[16:33] really
[16:34] an ominous feeling being at work but it
[16:37] at that time
[16:38] it was exciting i mean this was now i
[16:41] knew we were on the absolute be actually
[16:43] beyond the cutting edge of science and i
[16:45] was
[16:46] i was so absolutely excited to be there
[16:49] every single time i was um
[16:52] you know it would this was a fantastic
[16:54] opportunity and
[16:58] however
[17:00] in short order it began to concern me we
[17:04] really have no idea what we're talking
[17:06] about
[17:07] and
[17:09] the excitement kind of turned to dread
[17:12] at some point
[17:14] because the amount of power we're
[17:16] dealing with is astronomical i mean to
[17:19] affect gravity to produce the effects
[17:22] like this equipment does takes huge
[17:25] amounts of power and i've given the
[17:29] example before of
[17:30] you know taking a small portable nuclear
[17:32] reactor and you know putting it back
[17:34] into victorian times you know with the
[17:36] scientists of the time and just dropping
[17:39] it in a room and they come and look at
[17:41] it and see that it's producing power
[17:43] and wonder how it works so they start
[17:45] taking it apart
[17:47] and
[17:48] as soon as they get some of the
[17:49] shielding off the people are going to
[17:50] drop dead because of the radiation
[17:52] inside
[17:53] now the people have no idea that
[17:56] radiation even exists back then
[17:58] but anybody that comes in to check on
[18:00] him will also drop dead and
[18:03] you know
[18:04] there's no reason that that exact
[18:06] scenario couldn't happen with what we're
[18:08] dealing with we have no idea how the
[18:11] physics operate within this thing the
[18:14] power levels are are like i said
[18:16] astronomic like it's incredibly
[18:18] dangerous to tinker with something like
[18:20] that
[18:21] and you know in some respects we were
[18:23] guinea pigs just try to find out how to
[18:25] make this thing so they had a series
[18:28] as far as you're
[18:29] surmised that a series of different
[18:31] scientists try to back engineer this
[18:33] thing try to figure out what this thing
[18:35] was and they would bring in new people
[18:36] and like let's throw bob at it yeah yeah
[18:39] and they i know i don't know how many
[18:41] but i knew there was certainly one
[18:42] before me and i knew he died
[18:45] during the analysis of the or the
[18:47] reactor itself and
[18:51] you don't know how many have worked on
[18:53] it and no one
[18:54] gave this could have been there for
[18:56] 50 years it could have been there for
[18:58] five years when they're giving you
[18:59] instructions what are they saying like
[19:02] when they're giving you direction
[19:03] they're showing you all the stuff like
[19:04] what what are they saying what
[19:05] specifically what are they asking of you
[19:08] well essentially what they ask is is
[19:10] what i said all we are just to gather as
[19:12] much information as possible find out
[19:14] how it operates and see if we can
[19:16] duplicate it so but they always realize
[19:18] you where it was from they never let you
[19:20] ask questions about where it's from well
[19:24] if
[19:25] the information i read in the briefings
[19:26] was accurate now what i do have to say
[19:29] is
[19:29] the information that pertained directly
[19:32] to the reactor
[19:33] was accurate what i read
[19:36] did
[19:38] i mean did jive with reality um in terms
[19:41] of how
[19:42] in terms of how it was made how what we
[19:45] saw how it operated the materials how it
[19:48] you know turned on and what was
[19:50] discovered uh
[19:52] discovered about it
[19:54] i'm sorry the migraine is really making
[19:56] it hard for me to thank you sorry no
[19:58] we talked that before the podcast you
[20:00] tell her buddy bob is getting a migraine
[20:01] i know you're very stressed out by this
[20:02] which is one of the reasons why i
[20:03] appreciate you doing this
[20:05] um
[20:07] where was i already we were talking oh
[20:08] right yeah explained it
[20:10] and uh
[20:11] so there was some paperwork that
[20:15] indicated that this was from the zeta
[20:17] reticuli star system now
[20:20] yeah now how they obtain that i haven't
[20:24] i haven't the slightest idea but it
[20:26] wasn't just from the zeta reticuli star
[20:28] system it was
[20:29] what they called zr3 so it was a third
[20:32] planet in that star system so
[20:35] there was no other information about it
[20:37] other than that supposedly where the
[20:39] craft came from now is that true i don't
[20:41] know i have no way of verifying that but
[20:43] that was printed in the same materials
[20:45] that referenced the reactor now i looked
[20:47] that stuff up when i went home
[20:50] and
[20:51] zeta reticular is a binary star
[20:54] two stars that orbit orbit one another
[20:56] and it's only visible in the southern
[20:58] hemisphere and it's about thirty some
[21:00] odd light years away so that's literally
[21:02] all the information i have about that i
[21:04] don't know how they found out it came
[21:06] from there and you also probably have
[21:08] some suspicions that they give you some
[21:10] disinformation like you were talking
[21:12] about before they would yeah yeah to
[21:15] i mean if you ever decided to talk about
[21:17] this they added a bunch of nonsense to
[21:19] make whatever is factual look ridiculous
[21:21] right or be able to trace it down like
[21:24] hey this facts came out and you know
[21:26] this lazar guy said it you know came
[21:28] from zeta reticulate so they knew it was
[21:30] when we read zeta reticulate we're like
[21:32] what in the [ __ ] is this well reading
[21:36] all of this stuff it was what in the
[21:37] [ __ ] is this you're like why did i sign
[21:39] up for this
[21:40] no no
[21:41] to me this was cool this is interesting
[21:43] i said i was just excited to be out in a
[21:45] secure area you know in the middle of
[21:47] the desert i said this is awesome how
[21:49] old are you
[21:50] i get as in my 20s
[21:53] yeah so you're probably
[21:54] totally geeked out oh yeah
[21:56] this was this was great i mean i i was
[21:59] excited so i didn't care
[22:01] reading through everything and so you
[22:02] read through all the zeta reticuli thing
[22:04] but then when you see the actual
[22:05] starship with the little american flag
[22:07] sticker on it well that was
[22:10] was that later or before
[22:12] that
[22:14] that was before so before so you see the
[22:17] thing before and you say oh this is
[22:18] where what's that before
[22:20] hard so many years yeah i can't
[22:22] either way it doesn't matter the days
[22:24] have fused together it's so hard to
[22:26] separate what happened in each visit do
[22:28] you remember the thought process when
[22:30] you read that it's from zeta reticuli
[22:32] yeah it it it it didn't hit me like a
[22:34] ton of bricks or anything it's just like
[22:37] yeah okay
[22:38] you think it was [ __ ] i don't know
[22:40] this is where i don't know now i don't i
[22:42] mean because when i read it i hadn't
[22:44] verified anything and this was just a
[22:45] bunch of stuff i was reading and i
[22:47] thought maybe after this they're just
[22:49] going to give me a test and see what i
[22:50] can remember in right crazy information
[22:53] and it would but
[22:55] like i said when i finally
[22:57] went in with barry
[22:59] um
[23:01] and had hands-on
[23:02] experience with what they were talking
[23:04] about
[23:05] it taught on a completely different
[23:07] meaning so there's a plate there's this
[23:09] thing that looks like a half a
[23:10] basketball and when it's on you can't
[23:12] come anywhere near it you can't touch it
[23:14] right how is
[23:16] what is
[23:17] gravity about that like the the concept
[23:20] of gravity to most people gravity is
[23:21] bringing something towards it right well
[23:22] i guess you would say it's anti-gravity
[23:25] it's gravity shifted 180 degrees it's uh
[23:28] you know
[23:29] anti-gravity
[23:31] and did they have any understanding
[23:34] about what could possibly create this
[23:36] effect
[23:38] did they have any
[23:39] areas where they'd like you to look into
[23:42] no they
[23:46] well
[23:47] they knew there was a fuel source in it
[23:50] and they were proficient
[23:52] at making it work
[23:53] and again my analogy to something like
[23:55] this is you can drop a motorcycle off in
[23:58] the wagon train days and just leave it
[23:59] with the keys parked outside you know
[24:01] somebody's place everybody will come
[24:04] around it and they'll poke and prod and
[24:05] eventually they'll turn the key get it
[24:07] to start and become proficient at
[24:09] writing it
[24:10] yeah but they won't be able to
[24:13] understand what the hell's going on they
[24:15] won't be able to make the plastic fender
[24:17] much less anything else and i think
[24:19] that's exactly the state we were at we
[24:21] played around with the parts long enough
[24:23] before i got there where they could make
[24:25] the reactor operate
[24:27] take the fuel out and know that it makes
[24:30] it work
[24:32] how exactly what was going on
[24:35] in the reactor
[24:36] remained a mystery at the time
[24:39] i think we made some progress on
[24:42] what was going on inside but i don't
[24:45] think anybody really knew anything they
[24:47] could just watch what was going on and
[24:49] make note of it how long were you there
[24:52] i'd say about six months or so and what
[24:54] what progress was made while you were
[24:56] there
[24:57] well we came up with a bunch of
[25:01] reasonably good ideas about how the
[25:03] reactor worked
[25:05] and one of them was the base the square
[25:08] base of it was essentially like a
[25:10] cyclotron which is a small particle
[25:11] accelerator a circular one particle
[25:14] accelerators linear particle
[25:16] accelerators are just a you know
[25:18] long tube essentially and they
[25:20] accelerate particles with high voltage
[25:21] and you know radio frequencies till they
[25:23] reach high speeds but a cyclotron does
[25:26] that in a smaller circular area and
[25:29] there is this
[25:31] very heavy element fuel element 115
[25:34] something that wasn't on our periodic
[25:35] charts
[25:36] at the time but it is now it is now yeah
[25:39] when did it become on the periodic table
[25:42] now the way the charts now you know i
[25:44] don't remember do you remember when they
[25:46] 2004
[25:47] durhamstat germany i think is where they
[25:49] first fabricated four atoms they lasted
[25:51] 220 milliseconds with the atoms it's
[25:54] nothing right and then it later was
[25:56] discovered a couple more times they
[25:57] could fabricate it then they gave it
[25:59] they gave it a place then on the
[26:01] periodic chart after that called it
[26:03] muscovium so they told you about this
[26:06] stuff in
[26:08] 1982 yeah well we can 82 what what year
[26:12] was this it was 88 and 89 when i was
[26:16] there 82 is one 82 was when you're in
[26:18] los alamos i'm sorry yeah so 88.89 they
[26:21] told you about this stuff so this was
[26:22] not like no they didn't they didn't tell
[26:24] me about it that's one of the things
[26:26] that this group came up with
[26:28] the um
[26:30] um
[26:31] i keep losing my train of thought with
[26:33] this thing
[26:34] so this one area this
[26:37] this element 115 was the fuel yeah it
[26:41] was the fuel um
[26:50] the the world will forgive you for
[26:52] having a migraine i can i just it's
[26:54] really hard to think throughout this
[26:55] case
[26:57] i just want to say one yeah definitely
[26:58] as i said one thing you know but for the
[27:00] last 30 years
[27:02] people have just been on the attack on
[27:04] bob you know getting to know him the
[27:05] personal effects on his life it's really
[27:08] hard to understand unless you meet his
[27:10] family and his wife
[27:11] i mean this is the last thing he wanted
[27:13] to [ __ ] do was have to talk yeah we
[27:16] should explain that jeremy you and i had
[27:17] this conversation i watched your
[27:19] documentary
[27:20] we had this conversation and i said i
[27:23] have to talk to him yeah the document
[27:25] there's there's been detractors there's
[27:27] been a bunch of people that called
[27:29] [ __ ] on many of the things that
[27:30] you've said but over time
[27:33] many of the things that you talked about
[27:35] even in the 80s have proven to be true
[27:38] things that people said were not true
[27:40] were proven to be true element 115 was
[27:42] one of them
[27:44] right right right
[27:46] element 115 the fuel they had was stable
[27:50] in other words it didn't decay it wasn't
[27:51] emitting radioactivity um when they
[27:54] synthesized the two or three atoms of
[27:57] the 115 uh it did decay
[28:00] and it was not a stable element so
[28:02] they're they're kind of two different
[28:04] things but this is kind of typical
[28:06] elements
[28:07] always have or pretty much always have
[28:09] uh stable isotopes and unstable isotopes
[28:12] like i think cesium has like
[28:14] 30 unstable isotopes to it so all right
[28:17] well hydrogen for example you're
[28:19] familiar with hydrogen gas
[28:22] it's stable it's not radioactive but
[28:24] there's also two other types of hydrogen
[28:28] deuterium and tritium and deuterium
[28:30] isn't radioactive it's another
[28:33] stable isotope hydrogen but tritium is
[28:35] radioactive now they're all hydrogen but
[28:38] they just have a different amounts of
[28:39] neutrons so it's the same thing with
[28:42] other elements n element 115. depending
[28:45] on the amount of neutrons it has
[28:48] designates the isotope but it's 115 they
[28:52] will continue to take
[28:55] or experiment and try and make 115 at
[28:58] different isotopes and i'm sure
[28:59] eventually they'll come up with a stable
[29:01] version but it's the stable version that
[29:04] has the properties that we're talking
[29:05] about so they somehow or another had
[29:08] acquired a stable version did they say
[29:10] that the stable version had come with
[29:12] this craft it absolutely came with the
[29:13] graft yeah so at the time you having a
[29:17] firm knowledge of the periodic chart and
[29:19] knowing what was real and what wasn't
[29:21] real what was your reaction to having
[29:23] this stable element 115 that wasn't even
[29:26] supposed to exist well everything was
[29:28] impossible right i mean down down to the
[29:30] metal i i did get a chance
[29:33] uh to look inside the craft on only one
[29:36] occasion and this was important because
[29:40] where the reactor sat
[29:42] might have been critical to how it
[29:43] operated since everything operates
[29:46] without any interconnection so the
[29:47] placement of components might be
[29:50] critical so they allowed me to go inside
[29:52] and and look at it
[29:55] um
[29:56] dude again i forgot where the hell i am
[29:58] so you're going into this craft and what
[30:00] are you thinking when you're inside of
[30:02] it like what are you seeing it's um
[30:05] it's a very ominous feeling because it's
[30:09] there are no at first of all everything
[30:11] is one color it's like a dark pewter
[30:13] color
[30:14] and there are no right angles anywhere
[30:17] it's as if somebody took uh i've said
[30:20] this before somebody took a a model out
[30:23] of
[30:23] and fashioned it out of wax and then
[30:26] heated it just for a short time so
[30:27] everything melted everything looks like
[30:29] it's fused together everything has a
[30:31] radius of curvature where two uh items
[30:34] meet it's uh it's a really weird looking
[30:37] thing
[30:38] but um
[30:41] uh
[30:42] there was almost nothing
[30:44] other than a small foldable hatchway
[30:47] that
[30:48] that looked recognizable everything was
[30:51] uh
[30:52] was really unworldly
[30:54] depicting it a way to describe it so you
[30:57] you get inside this thing and it's
[30:59] designed for something that's much
[31:01] smaller than a human being yeah you
[31:02] can't really stand up till you get to
[31:04] the very center of it and how tall are
[31:05] you
[31:06] i'm 5 10. and what do you think this was
[31:08] designed for i'd say something close to
[31:11] half my height wow
[31:13] so these little
[31:14] three foot tallish creatures
[31:16] yeah and the the seats were small too i
[31:19] mean obviously it was made you know for
[31:21] something something small but there's no
[31:25] like there's there's nothing else in
[31:27] there there's just seats the reactor and
[31:29] some of the sub components there's no
[31:31] there's no control panels there's no
[31:33] bathroom there's no
[31:35] no decorative uh components or artwork
[31:38] or anything that you would recognize or
[31:40] trim i mean it's just a very bare bones
[31:43] thing you're not seeing any screens
[31:46] well there are archways around it that
[31:49] are part of the superstructure
[31:51] and
[31:52] that one of the archways can become
[31:54] transparent
[31:56] when i was in there there was another
[31:58] group working on one of the archways and
[32:01] you could call that a screen more or
[32:04] less
[32:04] so through that archway it would be it
[32:07] would maintain the solidity the the
[32:10] solid
[32:11] whatever metal it was yeah but you could
[32:14] yeah it just became transparent yeah i
[32:16] saw that happen once or twice before i
[32:18] left did you ask any questions about
[32:20] what the phone no there's no there's no
[32:22] asking questions no
[32:23] but when you watch something become
[32:25] transparent and you realize it's still
[32:27] there but you could now see through it
[32:29] yeah i mean now that's not that
[32:31] impressive we do have some liquid
[32:33] crystal materials that are like that
[32:35] you know they are seen in smart glass
[32:37] yeah they call it smart glass so this is
[32:39] just uh and i don't know if the craft is
[32:41] made of
[32:42] you know an advanced metal or a ceramic
[32:45] it was cold to the touch
[32:47] so um you know i would lean in more
[32:49] towards the metal you're not allowed to
[32:50] ask questions
[32:52] no the only there they work on the buddy
[32:54] system so i can only exchange ideas and
[32:57] talk to barry
[32:59] now this really interferes with science
[33:02] because science is based on free
[33:03] discussion and ideally you get a bunch
[33:05] of guys together exchange ideas work on
[33:08] problems and that's how things move
[33:09] forward
[33:10] but they're so over the top concerned
[33:13] about security they split everything off
[33:16] and
[33:17] everybody becomes stagnant it it
[33:20] it just destroys any of the progress you
[33:23] can make or at least makes it go so slow
[33:26] um they i think they wind up shooting
[33:28] themselves in the foot which is probably
[33:30] why they
[33:31] arrived at this bottleneck that they
[33:33] needed to get this madman with a jet
[33:35] powered honda to come in and see what he
[33:37] could do i think that was an act of
[33:39] desperation i think they wanted someone
[33:41] that thinks out of the box and let's
[33:43] just give this guy a try here because
[33:45] they weren't and uh they might have done
[33:47] this
[33:47] four more times since uh you know up to
[33:50] the point in time today assuming they're
[33:52] still working on this thing
[33:54] and when you see this craft and you're
[33:57] inside was there any
[33:59] indication that there was an area that
[34:01] they would use to control it to pilot
[34:04] was there a pilot seat
[34:06] was there's there were three seats they
[34:08] sat around uh the reactor was in the
[34:11] dead center of it
[34:12] and then equidistant around there were
[34:14] three seats
[34:16] so and that's all there was a a large
[34:19] you would they're not consoles there are
[34:21] large rectangular objects also spaced
[34:24] equidistant around the center um there's
[34:27] nothing on them there's no buttons
[34:29] there's no lights and they control the
[34:31] same color everything is the same color
[34:33] different shape right
[34:34] and um
[34:36] directly underneath them there's three
[34:38] levels in the craft uh the main level is
[34:41] what we're talking about directly under
[34:43] that
[34:44] those are the gravity amplifiers the big
[34:46] rectangular objects underneath them are
[34:48] the gravity emitters that look like for
[34:51] lack of a better word a trash can
[34:53] hanging on a pipe three of those and
[34:55] then the top layer
[34:58] i this is just my personal belief i
[35:00] think that has to do with a
[35:02] a navigation or their version of a
[35:04] computer uh with some planar panels
[35:08] sensor panels around the craft that we
[35:10] would call portholes but they're not
[35:11] portholes they're just black areas and i
[35:14] think that just determines its
[35:16] you know position in space
[35:18] but i was i i physically was in the
[35:21] center section and i stuck my torso in
[35:24] the bottom section and hung upside down
[35:26] so i could see
[35:27] how the gravity amplifiers were
[35:29] positioned
[35:30] what is the the roughly the size of this
[35:32] thing it's a i think it
[35:34] i don't remember from being there but um
[35:37] after all this stuff was over i had uh
[35:40] john andrews a guy from the testers
[35:42] model corporation and you know we sat
[35:44] down and tried to figure out from what i
[35:47] saw
[35:48] um
[35:49] and known sizes of things and we came up
[35:51] with 52 feet in diameter
[35:54] so i think that's really small yeah so i
[35:56] think that's a fair a reasonable guess
[35:59] now you said there's nine of them and
[36:00] you got a brief glimpse at the other
[36:02] ones were they how are they different
[36:05] oh
[36:06] they looked completely different one
[36:08] looked like i called it jello mold and
[36:10] it it looked like a classic jello mold
[36:12] with the rippled sides to it one was a
[36:14] very flat disc
[36:16] um
[36:18] you know like a
[36:20] oh i don't like a straw hat or something
[36:22] like that that was sitting up on its
[36:24] edge and the thin part of it had looked
[36:27] like a projectile had been fired through
[36:30] the edge of it so i don't know if they
[36:32] were attempting to see if the metal
[36:34] could be penetrated or if something or
[36:37] if that's
[36:38] where the thing came from maybe it was
[36:40] shot down um but that was the only one
[36:42] where i saw there was you know actual
[36:44] physical damage to it
[36:46] and that one was roughly the same size
[36:49] they're all uh they were kind of too far
[36:50] away to tell
[36:52] and did
[36:54] there was several teams that were
[36:56] working on the propulsion system so
[36:57] there was different teams that were
[36:59] working on these different aircrafts i i
[37:01] don't know i could only assume
[37:05] now when you're
[37:06] sitting in this thing
[37:08] and you're looking at this
[37:10] otherworldly craft
[37:12] your your goal is to try to figure out
[37:14] how this thing functions your goal is to
[37:17] try to figure out how this reactor
[37:19] i mean but you would imagine they would
[37:21] give you more time than just one day to
[37:23] check that out oh yeah it wasn't one day
[37:25] right
[37:26] yeah i mean this is barry was there
[37:29] i think barry was sleeping there i'm
[37:31] sure they had now
[37:33] that that isn't weird i mean up at the
[37:35] toenap test range where they work on
[37:36] stealth fighters you know you go i think
[37:40] three weeks on one week off and you stay
[37:42] up there too so it's not weird to stay
[37:44] up at the test site right so um yeah i
[37:46] think he pretty much didn't he acted
[37:48] like he's been up there for a long time
[37:50] yeah um
[37:52] but he's still there yeah who knows do
[37:54] you do you have contact with this guy no
[37:57] oh no i wish i did i kind of thought he
[37:59] was going to come out after i did right
[38:03] and i think i took so much flack and
[38:06] it's so much [ __ ] for what went on
[38:09] i think i actually i wound up helping
[38:11] security there and everybody became
[38:13] afraid of you know doing or saying
[38:15] anything after that
[38:17] so what kind of reports did you have to
[38:20] give like so you're not making much
[38:21] progress right you're just trying to
[38:22] figure out what this thing is and it
[38:24] seems impossible so well we didn't
[38:26] personally make them i mean we were
[38:28] always there was never a lot of
[38:31] information
[38:32] that we gained um
[38:34] the guy
[38:35] you would call him our supervisor his
[38:37] name was dennis mariani
[38:39] and kind of a military looking guy and
[38:42] he would routinely pop in you know
[38:44] during the day and you know hey what's
[38:47] going on guys and he would essentially
[38:50] relay any information anything new we
[38:52] came up with i mean he was our
[38:54] go-between you know where we presented
[38:56] him the information then he took it to
[38:58] wherever they were
[38:59] you know
[39:00] assembling all the data from everybody
[39:02] no i assume you're working normal days
[39:04] like an eight-hour day no
[39:06] no
[39:07] no it was really weird that i would be
[39:09] only called in on certain times and
[39:11] certain days and they would be weird
[39:13] hours too
[39:15] most of the time was later in the
[39:16] evening i mean i can get a call at 11
[39:18] o'clock at night and they'll say you
[39:20] know it's now 11 o'clock
[39:22] um
[39:23] by 11 45 you need to be at mccarran
[39:26] terminal and um
[39:29] you know we'll let you know when
[39:31] we have more information but what did
[39:33] you do while you were there if you're
[39:35] looking at this
[39:37] object this
[39:38] reactor and you can't figure out what it
[39:41] is or how it works other than the fact
[39:43] that it works on this element that we
[39:44] don't even know about sure i mean the
[39:46] thing was to
[39:48] what you do in you know
[39:50] with anything if you're trying to
[39:52] analyze it all you can do is perform
[39:54] tests
[39:55] and all we did is try and come up with
[39:57] every kind of test we possibly could i
[40:00] mean we tested you know it
[40:03] it violated
[40:05] a lot of what we thought was impossible
[40:06] to violate i mean one of the first laws
[40:09] of thermodynamics i mean essentially any
[40:12] machine any device that operates always
[40:14] makes extra heat
[40:16] nothing works at 100 efficient
[40:18] even the headphones you're wearing
[40:20] anything that takes power some of that
[40:23] power is going to be con converted to
[40:24] heat and it's just wasted
[40:27] this didn't i mean we looked at back
[40:29] then we had infrared cameras they're
[40:31] different today but back then you had to
[40:32] pour liquid nitrogen
[40:34] into the camera to cool the sensor down
[40:37] and um
[40:38] and get these infrared images you've
[40:40] seen
[40:41] but it never got no matter what the load
[40:43] was on the reactor it never got above
[40:46] the ambient temperature which is
[40:48] impossible i mean you're you know
[40:52] pulling out huge amounts of power and
[40:54] nothing ever gets warm
[40:57] we tried measuring magnetic fields and
[40:59] there was was nothing there so we
[41:01] started playing around with the
[41:04] emission from the emitters the gravity
[41:05] wave itself
[41:07] and saw what we could do with it and how
[41:10] it was focused so we really spent all
[41:12] our time
[41:14] just trying to see
[41:16] what the stuff can do and what we can
[41:18] control so you were seeing what it could
[41:20] do but you couldn't ever figure out how
[41:22] it was doing it
[41:24] no not really i mean we really we really
[41:27] could only use a or come up with a best
[41:29] guess and
[41:31] now i can't say we really
[41:34] that i could absolutely state for
[41:36] certainly or certainty how anything
[41:39] actually worked
[41:40] now
[41:41] how do did you know at all how they were
[41:44] piloting it because some they were doing
[41:47] some tests where they're having these
[41:50] things
[41:50] fly around in the sky
[41:53] and this is
[41:54] what gets us deeper into your story
[41:56] right um
[42:00] i was out there for uh
[42:03] one test
[42:04] um
[42:05] right in fact i was in with barry in the
[42:08] lab and dennis came in and said uh we're
[42:11] about to run the test why don't you guys
[42:13] come out or i think he said barry why
[42:15] don't you come out here and bring bob
[42:18] with you uh we went out there and
[42:21] the craft was already outside the hangar
[42:24] and was just preparing to lift off now
[42:27] they were in communication with somebody
[42:29] in the craft so there's a person in the
[42:31] crowd yeah there was
[42:33] certainly a person in there now it's not
[42:35] a comfortable place to be in because
[42:37] it's small so the guy has to be sitting
[42:39] on the floor in the middle uh my best
[42:42] guess and this is the same specific
[42:44] craft that you heard that was because
[42:45] you were that was the only craft that
[42:46] you were the only one that i i touched
[42:48] and worked on um
[42:50] and it it quietly lifted off the ground
[42:53] which was incredibly impressive to see
[42:56] quietly or silently
[42:58] what's
[42:59] well quietly because it
[43:01] didn't make sense
[43:03] it produced um
[43:05] a little corona discharge from the
[43:07] bottom a corona discharge is kind of a
[43:09] high voltage brush little bluish glow
[43:11] discharge as it was lifting off the
[43:13] ground you can hear a slight hiss sound
[43:16] now as soon as it cleared the ground by
[43:17] about five or ten feet
[43:19] maybe even less than that the hissing
[43:21] stopped and the blue gold disappeared so
[43:24] it lifted off quietly and then it
[43:26] hovered silently if you want to be
[43:28] specific
[43:29] wow so then what kind of maneuvers was
[43:32] it doing
[43:33] it took uh for that particular time it
[43:35] took off moved a little around around to
[43:38] the left and right and then sat back
[43:39] down
[43:40] the um
[43:42] the craft itself
[43:44] um
[43:46] they communicated with it with a reg
[43:48] because i saw the guy talking
[43:52] in a regular vhf radio
[43:54] to the person in the craft and i even
[43:57] saw the frequency that was on the
[43:59] the frequency counter of the uh
[44:02] communication the transceiver there
[44:04] um
[44:05] but what's weird is
[44:07] he shouldn't be able to communicate
[44:09] with the craft with a radio the radio
[44:13] the radio wave should bend around the
[44:14] craft i mean it shouldn't be possible
[44:17] every single thing about these the craft
[44:20] and the way they operated
[44:22] didn't make any sense to us i mean
[44:25] that's something we talked about for a
[44:26] while after why should the frequency
[44:28] bend around the craft
[44:30] well
[44:31] you really have to look at the way the
[44:32] gravity wave comes out of the craft
[44:35] there's a the reactors in the center and
[44:37] there's a waveguide that goes up to the
[44:39] top there's actually a small appendage
[44:41] that sticks out at the top of the craft
[44:43] and it produces a heart-shaped
[44:44] gravitational distortion around the
[44:46] craft now if the craft is sitting in the
[44:49] air and you walk underneath it and look
[44:52] up
[44:53] you actually cannot see the craft the
[44:56] light bends around it your bending
[44:58] gravity bends light it bends radio waves
[45:01] it's um
[45:03] it it shouldn't be possible to
[45:06] communicate with a craft that has an
[45:07] envelope around it that's distorting all
[45:10] forms of energy
[45:11] but
[45:13] they were apparently in contact with it
[45:15] somehow or another through some
[45:17] unexplained way that they don't bother
[45:19] explaining to you
[45:21] so this thing gets up it just does some
[45:22] very simple maneuvers left right left
[45:24] right goes down
[45:26] um and
[45:27] did they discuss this with you i mean
[45:29] they said they wanted you to see it no
[45:30] they they just wanted no they they
[45:32] didn't discuss anything with me it said
[45:35] it sat down we looked around for a bit
[45:37] and barry said let's go back we went
[45:38] back in the lab all we got to do is see
[45:40] it
[45:41] um
[45:42] fast forward
[45:45] to some months later
[45:47] i did have the test flight schedule of
[45:49] the craft now they had times they had
[45:51] designated high performance tests this
[45:54] obviously wasn't one
[45:56] that was a high performance test the
[45:59] high performance test went goes above
[46:02] the mountain range and they do much more
[46:04] radical moves with the thing look this
[46:05] is a prized item and they're not doing
[46:09] anything like taking it out of the
[46:10] atmosphere or flying around to other
[46:12] countries or anything like that
[46:13] they just play with this thing right
[46:15] over the test site
[46:17] but they were doing some radical moves
[46:19] with it
[46:19] and since i had the test flight schedule
[46:22] statistically
[46:25] the
[46:26] amount of traffic and the surrounding
[46:28] areas on the highway was lowest on
[46:30] wednesdays and that's why
[46:32] dennis told us that
[46:34] all the test flights occurred only on
[46:36] wednesdays because it'd be the least
[46:39] chance that anyone would see what's
[46:40] going on
[46:41] and this was before the the government
[46:44] had expanded the forbidden territory
[46:47] around area 51 and papoose lake and all
[46:50] that stuff right
[46:51] yeah i think that occurred
[46:53] after my story came out then people
[46:56] started going up on the mountaintops and
[46:58] trying to look down into there and they
[47:00] kind of freaked out and then did the
[47:02] land grab and pushed everybody back but
[47:04] yeah that i think all that occurred long
[47:07] after
[47:08] i'm sorry that i came out
[47:10] so
[47:11] you're working there and while you're
[47:13] working there you're under this crazy
[47:15] schedule
[47:16] forgive me for explaining your story but
[47:19] you
[47:20] uh would get these phone calls you would
[47:22] have to go to the to the airport at 11
[47:26] p.m
[47:27] and your wife started thinking that you
[47:29] were having an affair
[47:31] yeah apparently so
[47:33] um now i did give my permission to have
[47:36] you know as as part of the
[47:38] you know security clearance process um i
[47:41] i gave written permission to have the
[47:43] phones monitored and things of that sort
[47:45] so they weren't doing any covert stuff
[47:47] they um
[47:49] you know with any queue clearance or
[47:51] which is civilian top secret clearance
[47:53] or military top secret clearance they go
[47:55] talk to friends and
[47:57] you know
[47:58] place places you've been make sure
[48:00] you're not connected to foreign
[48:01] countries but you know monitoring your
[48:03] phone is nothing unusual
[48:04] however
[48:06] they
[48:07] insisted that
[48:08] you know you don't even talk
[48:10] to your loved one to your partner to
[48:12] your wife whatever about what's going on
[48:14] so she was essentially in the dark
[48:17] and didn't know the phone was being
[48:18] monitored
[48:19] well
[48:21] part of the security clearance
[48:23] is that not only do you not have any
[48:25] connections to foreign countries and
[48:27] aren't a maniac but you have to have a
[48:29] stable home life too
[48:31] well she started having an affair with a
[48:33] flight instructor
[48:35] now they were monitoring this on the
[48:37] phone and they knew it and i didn't
[48:39] so they stopped me
[48:41] coming in and their attitude at the time
[48:44] was
[48:45] we need to see how this is going to play
[48:47] out and if lazar is going to get a
[48:49] little weird or anything so
[48:51] let's just
[48:52] you know hold him off from coming in
[48:55] and
[48:56] you know see what happens and they
[48:58] explain this to you what was happening
[49:00] well after the fact yeah because time
[49:02] kind of went on
[49:04] and
[49:05] there were guys that were following me
[49:06] around and i started getting a little
[49:09] concerned going well
[49:10] ted are they
[49:12] booting me out of the project and if so
[49:16] they're not just going to let me hang
[49:17] out at home and go get a new job knowing
[49:19] what i know
[49:21] so
[49:22] as time went on i started getting a
[49:24] little concerned and
[49:26] i took my closest friends and just kind
[49:28] of got together and i said hey
[49:30] remember that job i told you about
[49:33] this is what's going on
[49:35] and uh like you don't need to take my
[49:37] word for it
[49:38] on wednesday night we need to all go out
[49:40] here i want to show you what's going on
[49:42] so i took everybody and we went out to
[49:45] um remember since i had the test flight
[49:48] schedule and went outside the base
[49:51] out into the desert and so everybody
[49:53] could see you know one of the high
[49:55] performance tests
[49:56] and you know it left quite an imprint on
[49:59] everybody so they knew i wasn't and
[50:01] there's videos of these tests right yeah
[50:03] but remember this is in the
[50:05] it's in in the dark in the 80s with a
[50:07] big monster-sized camcorder and you got
[50:09] you know a bright light jumping around
[50:11] but uh yeah i mean we did video of it
[50:14] but there's no
[50:15] by today's standards it's but is your
[50:17] video specifically available the video
[50:19] that you took
[50:20] yeah well george knapp has it it's is it
[50:24] i have no idea jeremy yeah i show clips
[50:26] of it in my film it's it's online and
[50:28] someone did a deep analysis of it uh it
[50:30] was interesting uh to take a look at how
[50:33] well this microphone up to your face
[50:34] about a fist from your face all right
[50:36] um you know to see how his video looks
[50:39] now but as far as video evidence i mean
[50:41] we are talking 80s camp was the most
[50:43] important thing is the human story here
[50:45] everybody that he took up there on three
[50:48] separate occasions they don't all like
[50:50] each other they don't all talk they all
[50:52] agree on one thing they saw something
[50:54] that night at the exact point in time
[50:56] and space that babazar said and remember
[50:58] this is 17 15 17 miles south of air 51.
[51:01] no one even knew really about air 51
[51:03] we're talking papoose lake and they all
[51:05] agree they saw something that night they
[51:07] had never seen before and they've never
[51:09] seen since right when he said it so
[51:11] that's one of like the six things where
[51:13] i'm like how did he know you can dismiss
[51:15] him i i tried to dismiss it but some
[51:18] things we can't get around and and
[51:19] there's about five or six of them how
[51:21] did he know about this if jamie wants to
[51:23] find that video right now what would he
[51:24] look under
[51:25] bob lazar ufo
[51:28] s for
[51:30] area 51 just kind of like that uh so
[51:32] it's like this s4 ufo video bob lazar
[51:35] and a guy does an analysis but you're
[51:37] not analyzing these 80s videos right he
[51:41] from the very beginning bob never said i
[51:43] have proof of my story and i'm going to
[51:45] tell the world he said at the very
[51:47] beginning i cannot prove my story that's
[51:50] not why i'm telling this george knapp
[51:52] convinced him to tell people
[51:54] and he lived through it and i i didn't
[51:56] believe it either until i i talked with
[51:58] george
[51:59] okay so you
[52:00] you filmed these
[52:02] this test flight one test flight and
[52:04] then you get caught
[52:06] actually it was i think the third time
[52:09] because it
[52:10] we went out there the first time
[52:13] everybody saw it everybody was amazed
[52:15] because it did some radical maneuvers
[52:17] and um you know everybody had a lot of
[52:20] maneuvers that i've seen i've seen the
[52:22] video it doesn't i don't think there's
[52:24] something we have now that does that no
[52:26] in terms of like a human piloted craft
[52:29] i mean i don't know obviously with the
[52:31] government no it's it's impossible
[52:32] nothing can move like that and remember
[52:35] we didn't start filming from the very
[52:36] beginning
[52:37] you know
[52:39] we were waiting for something you know
[52:40] to happen the craft took off and then
[52:42] came flying at us stopped you know
[52:44] turned it a right angle flew back and
[52:46] then you know after it did some you know
[52:48] amazing stuff
[52:49] to get the camera and then we started
[52:51] filming so it doesn't have all of it on
[52:53] there it just has some the way i
[52:55] describe it to my friends and they said
[52:56] what does it look like i said take a
[52:58] laser pointer and then have a wall and
[53:00] then move it around the wall like you
[53:02] know how it moves around the wall it
[53:03] doesn't seem like it has anything to do
[53:04] with inertia or physics or it's not
[53:07] impeded in any way by the atmosphere
[53:09] yeah that's what it looks like you're
[53:11] essentially separated from reality as
[53:14] crazy as that sounds with it being in in
[53:17] case it's an own gravitational envelope
[53:20] inertia is not going to affect it and
[53:22] you know this is
[53:25] this is how some of those recent
[53:26] sightings of commander david fravor i'm
[53:28] sure you've heard of the
[53:30] ufo i mean he describes exactly
[53:33] that the thing operates exactly the way
[53:35] i was describing that's why
[53:37] he was interested to talk to me um but
[53:40] we saw this
[53:42] and
[53:43] you know on the way home it's like hey
[53:45] we got away with it we should try it
[53:46] again the next test flight date so this
[53:49] became a thing to do
[53:51] and i think it was on
[53:52] the third time
[53:54] that we got caught i mean we started
[53:57] becoming a little careless i think we
[53:59] took a motor home out there
[54:01] you know i mean it was like the
[54:02] stupidest thing you could possibly start
[54:04] tailgating yeah it was ridiculous and um
[54:07] again you're in your 20s yeah and you
[54:10] know what was funny was um
[54:13] we went out there and
[54:15] my friend gene huff and i were leaning
[54:17] on the front of a vehicle
[54:19] and
[54:21] just for some reason we just started
[54:23] talking [ __ ] like uh well i hope they
[54:26] realize that uh
[54:29] i don't remember what we were saying but
[54:31] you know that
[54:33] something about attacking the base or
[54:34] something along those lines and stealing
[54:37] the craft or
[54:38] something like that
[54:40] and um
[54:41] then about 20 feet in front of us we see
[54:43] a little green light
[54:45] fall on the ground and roll to us
[54:47] and unbeknownst to us now it's pitch
[54:50] black you can't see your hand in front
[54:51] of your face there were a bunch of
[54:52] guards standing right out there and they
[54:54] had a night vision scope where they were
[54:56] like from here to the wall looking at us
[54:59] listening to us and the guy dropped it
[55:00] and the scope rolled over to us and you
[55:02] could see the green screen
[55:04] you know we turn the lights on and all
[55:06] these guys are there so
[55:08] it was uh whoa yeah yeah so we did
[55:10] incredibly stupid stuff and got caught
[55:12] as we should have because so when they
[55:14] catch you and they bring you in then
[55:15] what happens well i went in for
[55:17] debriefing
[55:19] the following day i went to indian
[55:21] springs air force base which is kind of
[55:23] a defunct
[55:24] base that they used to use at the
[55:26] nuclear test site
[55:28] and this is when they brought out
[55:31] um
[55:32] the transcript of the phone call
[55:34] with my wife
[55:36] and you know they sat me down and we
[55:38] said you know when we meant to keep the
[55:40] secret we meant you can't tell your
[55:43] friends right you know and it just being
[55:45] sarcastic and trying to mm-hmm um and
[55:48] then they got real serious
[55:50] uh but this is where they
[55:52] you know took the transcript out and
[55:54] were reading me what uh
[55:56] my wife
[55:58] and
[55:59] you know our friend were talking about
[56:01] and uh
[56:03] it was a hard time so what happens from
[56:05] there
[56:08] what do they do with you why don't they
[56:09] arrest you
[56:10] i don't i don't know i don't know why
[56:13] i'm not sure they exactly they knew what
[56:15] to do but they did let me go
[56:18] that night and i went home
[56:20] and that this is kind of when the most
[56:22] stressful part started because you're
[56:24] realizing you're being monitored
[56:26] yeah now i know not only am i being
[56:28] monitored but now i know i'm in trouble
[56:31] and uh it wasn't a short time after that
[56:33] that i contacted you know at that time
[56:36] the
[56:37] only investigative reporter i had heard
[56:39] of in las vegas was george knapp
[56:41] and um you know told him some of the
[56:43] story because i had no idea what the
[56:45] hell was going to happen at that point
[56:47] so george knapp
[56:49] tries to
[56:50] dissect your story tries to find holes
[56:52] in it
[56:53] tells it puts it online and makes
[56:56] everybody aware of it and that's how i
[56:57] found out about it yeah to make a long
[56:59] story short
[57:01] what happens yeah to really make a long
[57:02] story short what happens from there on i
[57:05] mean do they contact you and say hey bob
[57:07] it's probably a good idea if you shut up
[57:12] how
[57:13] did they try to label you as crazy was
[57:15] there
[57:17] there were boy there were a lot of
[57:19] things that happened at you know between
[57:22] that point um i'm leaving out a lot of
[57:24] stuff to fill in the story
[57:28] we'd have to go back to los alamos and
[57:30] and
[57:33] well i really don't want to talk about
[57:34] that the um
[57:37] top secret weapons
[57:39] stuff that you were working on
[57:41] no i'm talking about the 115.
[57:43] um
[57:46] well i don't know i have to think about
[57:47] how i'd
[57:49] what is the problem
[57:52] i don't want to get myself into more
[57:55] trouble by admitting something so
[57:57] um i just have to dance around a couple
[57:59] he was created just during the filming
[58:01] of the movie people thought the movie's
[58:03] great by the way thanks joe and uh it's
[58:05] on netflix right now if anybody wants to
[58:07] check it out and if you're one of those
[58:08] people like me
[58:10] who um you know i've always
[58:12] loved the idea of ufos i became
[58:15] extremely weary talking to people who
[58:17] are ufo believers and ufo fanatics
[58:19] because there's so many of them that are
[58:21] full of [ __ ] and not just full of [ __ ]
[58:23] they're they're childishly delirious
[58:26] like the way they talk about things i
[58:28] mean there's so many people that are
[58:30] that i'm in contact they they reach me
[58:33] in the night and they explain to me what
[58:34] we're doing to the ocean is wrong and
[58:37] like you're like okay this is one of the
[58:39] reasons i didn't want to do the show
[58:44] well it's i mean it's no joke we've had
[58:46] people literally camp out on our front
[58:48] lawn and uh
[58:50] you know
[58:51] in some ways i can relate to some of
[58:53] these people you know maybe some of them
[58:55] did really have some kind of experience
[58:57] or saw something and all their friends
[58:59] think they're crazy but hey now there's
[59:01] this guy i heard on the radio
[59:03] and uh at least he knows i'm not full of
[59:06] [ __ ] so i gotta talk to him and so most
[59:08] of the
[59:09] correspondents i get are people trying
[59:11] to get a hold of me going bob you you
[59:13] gotta listen to me i'm i'm coming to
[59:15] talk to you i'm you know i'm driving
[59:16] from oklahoma or whatever and and and
[59:20] but some of them are just [ __ ] bad
[59:22] [ __ ] crazy yeah they're frightening
[59:24] there's a lot of schizophrenics that are
[59:26] involved in the conspiracy world so
[59:29] there's a lot of people that have real
[59:30] issues joe
[59:31] it would be a disservice to your
[59:33] audience to not say that
[59:36] we have to look at what's going on now
[59:37] and understand i've heard
[59:39] on your show a bunch of stuff about
[59:40] what's going on now and to not really
[59:43] understand what's going on now you can't
[59:45] see bob's story in the correct light
[59:48] after 30 years and at some point we
[59:50] should just touch upon that
[59:52] um the the biggest being that things
[59:55] like the tic tac ufo case that came out
[59:57] i've heard people even on the show say
[59:59] oh there's a glitch in the radar
[01:00:01] that's a data poor perspective you just
[01:00:04] don't know yet what's really going on
[01:00:06] commander fravor i was able to get the
[01:00:08] interview with him to talk with him way
[01:00:09] before it became public i got that from
[01:00:12] him he saw it other pilots saw it this
[01:00:15] is a big thing that's going on right now
[01:00:18] they had more sightings on the east
[01:00:20] coast recently cubes with spherical
[01:00:23] auras these are not aerodynamic and
[01:00:24] these are the people we trust to defend
[01:00:26] us on 911 commander favor protected los
[01:00:28] angeles and 911. so we trust them but
[01:00:31] they're not trained observers
[01:00:33] radar
[01:00:34] individuals see these things and the big
[01:00:36] the big one just to throw down so we can
[01:00:37] consider a story a little differently
[01:00:39] there's more depth to it the big one is
[01:00:41] the united states government has
[01:00:43] admitted that they have been
[01:00:44] continuously studying the ufo phenomenon
[01:00:47] that program was called a tip advanced
[01:00:50] error or sorry
[01:00:52] was called awsap that that's the
[01:00:54] mother program george knapp got that out
[01:00:57] they they announced through the new york
[01:00:58] times about a tip
[01:01:00] but awesome these acronyms asap advanced
[01:01:02] aerospace weapon systems applications
[01:01:04] program who cares
[01:01:06] that was the mother program so they've
[01:01:07] admitted we didn't stop studying ufos in
[01:01:09] 1969 with project blue book we don't
[01:01:11] think it's crazy we actually want to
[01:01:13] reverse engineer the technology that's
[01:01:15] why on your other show you said what's
[01:01:16] this aav thing it's like they're making
[01:01:18] up another ufo name well hold on there's
[01:01:20] a reason because in the documents the
[01:01:23] the dia documents that george knapp
[01:01:25] released that everybody said was fake
[01:01:26] till now they know is real
[01:01:28] they call them aavs which is advanced
[01:01:32] aerospace vehicles people are getting
[01:01:34] the acronyms wrong so the reason for the
[01:01:36] terminology change is so that we can
[01:01:38] mimic what we're reading in the dia
[01:01:40] documents people can look for that now
[01:01:42] so they changed the names to get people
[01:01:44] away from ufo or uap even like hillary
[01:01:47] clinton said on air right so what are
[01:01:49] you talking about hillary clinton
[01:01:51] hillary clinton
[01:01:52] informed the public on jimmy kimmel oh
[01:01:55] jimmy we don't call them ufos anymore we
[01:01:58] call them uaps unidentified aerial
[01:02:00] phenomenon
[01:02:02] right so she kind of was giving their
[01:02:03] the clintons are very into the ufo topic
[01:02:06] senator reid you know he he's done a lot
[01:02:08] for the for the subject the study of it
[01:02:10] right
[01:02:11] so she informed the public so they could
[01:02:13] look for the right term so these terms
[01:02:15] are important because the dia in those
[01:02:17] documents they've been calling them aavs
[01:02:20] for quite some time now and they change
[01:02:22] the name to anomalous no that that's
[01:02:25] kind of a misnomer
[01:02:26] so
[01:02:27] they always mess around with things but
[01:02:29] it's actually advanced right but when
[01:02:32] they're describing it in the news they
[01:02:33] were calling an anomalous space vehicle
[01:02:35] totally and that's cool they were also
[01:02:37] saying anomalous aerospace threats aat
[01:02:40] right because they want the sense of a
[01:02:42] threat right so my point is all of if
[01:02:45] people don't know this now and they
[01:02:46] think this stuff is is fantasy this this
[01:02:48] part of it that we're studying it that
[01:02:50] we take it seriously we're spending
[01:02:51] money on it and that we're getting great
[01:02:54] data from from visual pilots to to radar
[01:02:56] that's why we know it's aerospace they
[01:02:58] dropped from 80 000 feet but guess what
[01:03:00] that's the top scope of the spy 1 radar
[01:03:03] is 80 000 feet so the radar system they
[01:03:05] were using it was coming from above that
[01:03:08] so my point is this
[01:03:10] if you don't understand that this is
[01:03:12] happening you're just behind the curve
[01:03:14] because you don't have the information
[01:03:16] because of the stigma that you're
[01:03:18] talking about i saw you get totally
[01:03:20] upset with the ufo topic i met you first
[01:03:22] when you're totally upset with the ufo
[01:03:24] topic it's the people when
[01:03:26] when when you're doing your
[01:03:28] i'm sorry man when you're when you're
[01:03:29] doing your show you know the joe organ
[01:03:31] questions everything
[01:03:33] i could see
[01:03:34] how
[01:03:35] how frustrating is trust me i have been
[01:03:37] frustrated to hell luckily my mentors
[01:03:39] george knapp and he's taught me the pit
[01:03:40] bull pitfalls as i went through it my
[01:03:43] whole point in this rant right here
[01:03:45] is just that we have to now look at
[01:03:47] bob's story but knowing the facts
[01:03:50] not someone saying it's a bird it's a
[01:03:52] plane it's a glitch
[01:03:54] they're not and so if you don't know
[01:03:56] that you just don't have the information
[01:03:57] yet not just that knowing the facts as
[01:03:59] we know him in 2019 not in 1988
[01:04:02] absolutely and so what has he said
[01:04:05] that has come true he's totally
[01:04:07] unimpressed with it right what has he
[01:04:08] said this come true so i was like bob
[01:04:10] they've announced gravity as a wave you
[01:04:13] were right man you're vindicated and he
[01:04:15] looks at me and he's like well if you
[01:04:17] think about it jeremy i had like a 50 50
[01:04:19] chance he was not very impressed right
[01:04:22] when did they announce gravity as a wave
[01:04:24] so they detected in a sense they
[01:04:26] detected gravity waves who were who was
[01:04:29] they
[01:04:30] you might know more there's two black
[01:04:32] holes that were colliding and that's how
[01:04:33] they were able to detect yeah somebody
[01:04:35] bill i don't know which group it was or
[01:04:37] what part of the government that's what
[01:04:39] google's for yeah would it but they um
[01:04:42] you know built a gigantic gravity wave
[01:04:44] detector and pretty much
[01:04:47] detected that there are such things as
[01:04:50] first observation of gravitational waves
[01:04:53] it says it was in 2016.
[01:04:56] okay the first observation of
[01:04:57] gravitational waves was made on 14th of
[01:05:00] september 2015 right as announced by the
[01:05:02] ligo and virgo collaborators on the 11th
[01:05:06] of february 2016 previously
[01:05:08] gravitational waves had only been
[01:05:10] inferred indirectly via their effect on
[01:05:13] the timing of pulsars in binary star
[01:05:16] systems
[01:05:18] the waveform connected by both
[01:05:21] ligo ligo observatories match the
[01:05:24] predictions of general relativity for
[01:05:27] gravity for a gravitational wave
[01:05:32] emanating from the inward sp i'm trying
[01:05:34] to get this from the inward spiral and
[01:05:37] merger of a pair of black holes around
[01:05:39] 36 and 29 solar masses and the
[01:05:42] subsequent
[01:05:43] ring down
[01:05:44] of the single resulting black hole
[01:05:47] well that i mean
[01:05:49] yeah it's not he was in the 80s the
[01:05:51] predominant theory was gravity is
[01:05:53] produced by gravitons okay you know part
[01:05:55] of theoretic theoretical particles but
[01:05:58] um they're not they're waves they're not
[01:06:00] particles and that's so the thought is
[01:06:03] that the way we experience gravity it's
[01:06:05] based on mass which is why the moon
[01:06:08] which is
[01:06:09] roughly one quarter the size of the
[01:06:11] earth has one sixth of the earth's
[01:06:13] gravity so there's some sort of a
[01:06:14] computation you can make based on mass
[01:06:16] right and and remember
[01:06:18] we can observe
[01:06:20] the effects of gravity but we have no
[01:06:22] idea what it is all we can do is observe
[01:06:25] it and we can't make it the only way you
[01:06:27] can make gravity is just put more mass
[01:06:29] together and it's just a product of
[01:06:31] gravity but if you can make a if you
[01:06:34] have a machine that makes gravity
[01:06:37] you can pretty much do anything you can
[01:06:39] affect time you can have force fields
[01:06:42] all that stuff that's in science fiction
[01:06:44] becomes reality if you have a machine
[01:06:47] that can make gravity and what we worked
[01:06:49] on in the desert was a machine that
[01:06:51] makes gravity i love your analogy of
[01:06:54] dropping off a small nuclear reactor to
[01:06:57] the victorian era i love that that
[01:06:59] analogy because back then that was
[01:07:02] impossible that was magic
[01:07:04] what you're talking about here the fact
[01:07:07] that they just discovered this four
[01:07:09] years ago that this is a wave when we're
[01:07:12] as much as we know and as impressed as
[01:07:14] we are as we should be with how much
[01:07:17] more
[01:07:17] technologically advanced we are than
[01:07:19] every other creature on this planet
[01:07:21] we're still in many ways in the
[01:07:22] adolescence of technological innovation
[01:07:25] absolutely
[01:07:26] absolutely if even adolescence and when
[01:07:30] you're talking about this binary star
[01:07:32] system zeta reticuli and who knows how
[01:07:36] much longer these things have been
[01:07:37] around than us who knows what their
[01:07:40] evolutionary cycle's been who knows what
[01:07:43] i mean we might be talking about
[01:07:44] something that's a million years more
[01:07:45] advanced than us
[01:07:46] yeah yeah it could easily be now i'm not
[01:07:49] in
[01:07:50] believe it or not i'm not into ufos i
[01:07:52] don't follow stories or you know even
[01:07:55] after your experiences no i'm fascinated
[01:07:57] with the technology and i i it really it
[01:08:00] irks me like every night i go to sleep
[01:08:02] that you know i don't
[01:08:05] that it was my own doing essentially
[01:08:08] that
[01:08:09] that prevented me from continuing on in
[01:08:11] the in the project i mean it's the
[01:08:13] that to be on that cutting edge of
[01:08:15] technology is so alluring to me right
[01:08:18] but
[01:08:20] you know by the same token i don't
[01:08:22] really care that there's aliens or where
[01:08:24] they come from i mean the prize is the
[01:08:26] technology and that's what i'm
[01:08:27] fascinated by but so i don't listen to
[01:08:29] ufo stories and that sort of thing but
[01:08:31] george knapp is um
[01:08:33] i mean he's the guy that has the context
[01:08:36] and tries to thread everything together
[01:08:38] and
[01:08:39] what he recently told me is he found
[01:08:42] i don't know is either documentation or
[01:08:44] people that he spoke to it's at this the
[01:08:46] existence of this project the project
[01:08:48] that i was on it's something that they
[01:08:52] seem to take out every eight or ten
[01:08:54] years so that's a very specific memo and
[01:08:57] this is actually i this is the first
[01:08:59] time i'll be very clear with people
[01:09:00] about it it's a big topic of
[01:09:01] conversation right now it's called the
[01:09:03] wilson memo
[01:09:05] you can look it up
[01:09:06] admiral wilson met with a scientist
[01:09:09] who's actually was featured in one of my
[01:09:10] films
[01:09:11] everybody has been debating whether or
[01:09:13] not this document
[01:09:15] of a conversation
[01:09:17] with a with a sitting admiral at the
[01:09:19] time is a real
[01:09:20] document it's an actual conversation
[01:09:22] that happened and this document is real
[01:09:24] everybody wants to know the world is
[01:09:25] going crazy right now in the ufo world
[01:09:27] i'll tell you straight up right now
[01:09:29] i'm in the position to know and it is a
[01:09:31] real document
[01:09:33] that it is real so the conversation you
[01:09:36] read in that
[01:09:37] that conversation was had i can't attest
[01:09:39] to everything
[01:09:40] you're not being very clear sure please
[01:09:42] no problem
[01:09:43] so there was a document that is
[01:09:45] circulating right now that is really big
[01:09:47] it's going around everywhere people are
[01:09:49] asking what is this talking about it's
[01:09:51] called the wilson memo is what how you
[01:09:52] can find it online
[01:09:54] the or the wilson leak there it is
[01:09:56] jimmy's got it the wilson memorandum use
[01:09:59] of human volunteers no no no no no
[01:10:02] yeah so uh
[01:10:04] admiral wilson meets with this scientist
[01:10:07] and they have this discussion oddly
[01:10:09] enough at special projects at egng and
[01:10:11] if i remember the document is from 2001
[01:10:14] i'm telling everybody right now it's
[01:10:15] real and we'll see my history is pretty
[01:10:17] good with like saying if something's
[01:10:19] real or not right so here we go the
[01:10:21] document comes out they meet at eg
[01:10:23] special projects in 1989 they stumble
[01:10:27] into a problem
[01:10:28] this happens they put the technology
[01:10:31] away and then they bring it back out and
[01:10:33] see if material science has caught up
[01:10:35] and if they can make any progress so
[01:10:37] this document kind of talks about this
[01:10:39] process the big thing i get from it and
[01:10:41] a lot of it's vindicating to bob and one
[01:10:43] of the things that's vindicating besides
[01:10:45] the eg g thing
[01:10:46] is that private industry so this guy's
[01:10:49] an admiral and he says i found out about
[01:10:52] your sap your special access program i
[01:10:55] need to know about it and he's going to
[01:10:57] a private part of industry
[01:11:00] and he is denied access
[01:11:02] and he says i you know i should be
[01:11:04] running this program and they were able
[01:11:06] to deny him access
[01:11:08] so i think the takeaway here is check it
[01:11:11] out i'm telling you that that is an
[01:11:12] actual correct that is a leak now
[01:11:15] everything said in that document i'm i
[01:11:16] don't know what are you talking about
[01:11:18] what what is said in that document
[01:11:19] specifically it's it's a between a
[01:11:21] scientist and an admiral that are
[01:11:23] sitting and they're having a meeting and
[01:11:25] they're talking about
[01:11:26] the the search for the the ufo subject
[01:11:29] the search to get special access program
[01:11:31] access to all of these different things
[01:11:34] like reverse engineering programs
[01:11:37] so in this document they talk about it
[01:11:40] uh i believe that
[01:11:42] this document that the person that went
[01:11:43] was employed by robert bigelow you know
[01:11:45] one of the guys that has a couple of
[01:11:46] orbiting satellites and all that stuff
[01:11:48] who's the guy owned skinwalker ranch no
[01:11:50] he's not he was the guy the walker okay
[01:11:54] yeah he used to own it there's a new
[01:11:55] owner and i i interview him for my other
[01:11:58] film
[01:11:59] but there's a new owner and you'll be
[01:12:00] hearing a lot more about that soon
[01:12:02] but uh like it'll just there's there's
[01:12:04] stuff that you'll be hearing about
[01:12:05] skinwalker ranching because there's a
[01:12:07] new owner anyway the whole point of this
[01:12:10] you know insertion here is just that
[01:12:12] that document kind of validates a lot of
[01:12:15] this idea bob just said that they make a
[01:12:18] little progress then they can't go
[01:12:20] anywhere they tuck it away and then they
[01:12:22] bring it back out you know 10 years
[01:12:24] later and start working on it
[01:12:26] what is the limiting factor i think bob
[01:12:27] should speak on this but it's the
[01:12:29] material science
[01:12:30] yeah it's really where physics is so i i
[01:12:33] can i can see them doing that i mean i
[01:12:35] didn't have any
[01:12:36] uh
[01:12:37] information on that but i think what you
[01:12:40] know george uncovered is probably
[01:12:41] accurate that uh you know we try and do
[01:12:44] what we can and once we reach a
[01:12:46] roadblock on we really can't figure it
[01:12:48] out it's just friggin wait put the thing
[01:12:51] away wait for science to catch up and
[01:12:54] you know a decade later let's take the
[01:12:55] project out again and see all right now
[01:12:57] where can we go but there's got to be
[01:12:59] someone who remains informed right oh
[01:13:02] yeah you've got your scientists like you
[01:13:04] and barry you got your people that you
[01:13:06] compartmentalize you got these people
[01:13:07] working on yeah there has to be some
[01:13:09] people right that know everything you've
[01:13:11] got security and then someone's going to
[01:13:14] be on the outside saying hey we need
[01:13:16] people to guard this building don't let
[01:13:17] anybody in for ten years i think i think
[01:13:19] a lot of that is private industry and i
[01:13:22] think that's how they keep it yeah i
[01:13:23] think that's how they literally because
[01:13:24] the government is just so leaky i think
[01:13:27] that's kind of what they're doing that's
[01:13:29] what the document kind of proves you
[01:13:30] just articulated that that um it is in
[01:13:33] control private industry what private
[01:13:35] industry
[01:13:36] some aerospace company something i don't
[01:13:38] know yeah they wouldn't they would the
[01:13:39] guy with the admiral wouldn't name it in
[01:13:40] the car right in the conversation right
[01:13:43] so
[01:13:43] they
[01:13:44] still have these things supposedly
[01:13:48] i would guess i mean i don't have any
[01:13:50] information have you ever asked anyone
[01:13:53] that has any inkling of any idea of
[01:13:57] where they got them or how they got them
[01:14:00] no but um
[01:14:01] something must have been said to me um
[01:14:05] from barry
[01:14:06] and but i i it was just too long ago and
[01:14:09] i i can't quite remember what was said
[01:14:10] but it
[01:14:11] it just left a seat in my mind i think
[01:14:14] at least one of them was part of an
[01:14:15] archaeological dig
[01:14:18] so
[01:14:19] it's old
[01:14:20] something one at least one of them is
[01:14:22] old i don't know if it was the one i
[01:14:23] worked on but i remember
[01:14:25] something to do with an archaeological
[01:14:27] dig whoa so that's uh
[01:14:30] that means it's not just old it's
[01:14:31] ancient that'd be a great stephen
[01:14:33] spielberg movie yeah right
[01:14:35] [Laughter]
[01:14:37] as all of it would yeah that took me out
[01:14:38] when he said that for the first time
[01:14:40] yeah that's a freak out right there just
[01:14:42] a couple of dudes with some brushes
[01:14:44] looking for a tyrannosaurus rex bone and
[01:14:46] metal and when did they find it you know
[01:14:49] that they have nine of them well and how
[01:14:51] could we have not heard about that what
[01:14:53] about the guys with the brushes how
[01:14:55] could you uncover something like that
[01:14:57] and joe's newspaper at home does i mean
[01:14:59] they said it on that first day oh you
[01:15:01] mean the roswell yeah yeah yeah you told
[01:15:03] me yeah yeah i have a cover what is this
[01:15:05] here james it's the document but i had
[01:15:07] to do some digging to find it yes it's
[01:15:09] just kind of
[01:15:10] yeah so this is where they meet at egng
[01:15:12] and this is admiral wilson and there's a
[01:15:14] lot more coming out now i want to be
[01:15:15] clear george didn't put this out he
[01:15:17] didn't
[01:15:18] leak this out to anybody this is i can
[01:15:20] tell you how i recorded this this
[01:15:22] conversation so this was an employee
[01:15:24] of at the time robert bigelow and this
[01:15:26] is in 2002 right do you remember when he
[01:15:28] had that government contract called
[01:15:30] awesap the world all knows about now and
[01:15:32] he had nids that studied the ranch so
[01:15:33] that 22 million everybody is saying it
[01:15:35] was for atip um advanced aerospace
[01:15:38] threat identification program
[01:15:40] the 22 million dollars was for ossap
[01:15:43] that was pushed through through congress
[01:15:45] three congressmen right an astronaut it
[01:15:48] was pushed through
[01:15:49] and that's what that 22 million dollars
[01:15:51] by the way they spend more money on
[01:15:52] viagra every year than they do studying
[01:15:54] ufos if it was just this program which i
[01:15:56] think is funny but they probably make a
[01:15:57] lot more money from fragrance they
[01:15:59] probably do ufos well you never know how
[01:16:01] it seeds into population but anyway this
[01:16:03] program
[01:16:04] uh this is what was the mother program
[01:16:06] so it it got the 22 million and really
[01:16:09] it was to study skinwalker ranch oddly
[01:16:11] enough that 22 million all was inspired
[01:16:14] by the phenomenon they were seeing at
[01:16:15] skinwalker ranch because the scientists
[01:16:18] they're seeing vehicles come through
[01:16:20] like a space in the sky yeah we went
[01:16:23] there i went through it yeah we
[01:16:25] interviewed
[01:16:27] a bunch of people that seemed full of
[01:16:28] [ __ ] but a couple that didn't but it's
[01:16:30] very very interesting totally any
[01:16:32] there's but if you look i spent a lot of
[01:16:33] time in the area i'm not talking about
[01:16:35] those stories i'm saying there were
[01:16:36] scientists hired by the government right
[01:16:39] through bigelow to study the ranch
[01:16:40] because they thought it was important
[01:16:42] and you know whatever whatever the point
[01:16:44] is that 22 million was to study that
[01:16:46] then we have atip which is like an
[01:16:48] auxiliary kind of program of military
[01:16:50] settings like commander framers and that
[01:16:52] sort of thing this document is just one
[01:16:55] of those things that has now come
[01:16:57] forward that through the bigelow studies
[01:16:59] it was government funded and then it was
[01:17:01] personally funded and then government
[01:17:03] funded
[01:17:04] it's just one of those things that kind
[01:17:06] of shakes you because you got this
[01:17:08] military guy who can't get access
[01:17:11] because of the private industry that's
[01:17:12] holding these
[01:17:14] non-terrestrial materials that they
[01:17:16] can't study it so that's the the claim
[01:17:18] right now give it some time let people
[01:17:21] dig more into this
[01:17:22] it's fascinating man
[01:17:24] so
[01:17:25] you are
[01:17:28] essentially
[01:17:29] you're you're
[01:17:30] you're kicked out right you're you're
[01:17:32] out of the this program you can't work
[01:17:34] with these crafts anymore and
[01:17:37] do they give you any threats do they
[01:17:40] tell you what you have to do from here
[01:17:42] on out
[01:17:43] yeah well i mean the way it ended was
[01:17:47] um i told george knapp
[01:17:49] all this stuff and um you know he said
[01:17:52] well let's just get it on tape should
[01:17:53] something happen at least we have a
[01:17:55] record of it and um i don't remember
[01:17:58] what the emphasis was but um at some
[01:18:01] point george wanted to air it and he
[01:18:03] said
[01:18:04] you know you make the call on it
[01:18:07] and look if at any point you change your
[01:18:09] mind
[01:18:10] we won't air it and it came down to the
[01:18:13] day where george wants to put her on the
[01:18:15] five o'clock news he said hey this is
[01:18:16] important stuff people have to know
[01:18:18] about it and i thought it was too either
[01:18:21] it's kind of a crime i know you've got
[01:18:22] to keep the technology secret but you
[01:18:24] can't not tell everybody that this stuff
[01:18:27] is going on that we have you know actual
[01:18:30] hardware from another civilization it's
[01:18:32] a big [ __ ] deal you know probably the
[01:18:34] biggest one there ever was
[01:18:36] and um
[01:18:38] george
[01:18:40] said you know today's the day we got to
[01:18:42] put it on the news or something to that
[01:18:44] effect and when it came
[01:18:45] right down to the time to air it i
[01:18:47] changed my mind and i said
[01:18:50] we're not doing it
[01:18:51] and that's what turned into the famous
[01:18:53] wrestling match between me and george
[01:18:56] trying to get the tape but he won
[01:18:57] because he was a bigger guy so he
[01:19:00] actually physically wrestled well i
[01:19:01] think it was more of a pulling match we
[01:19:03] were i don't think we ever hit the
[01:19:04] ground but
[01:19:06] he got the tape he put it in the player
[01:19:08] and boom five o'clock news was on and
[01:19:10] then um
[01:19:11] i got a call after that and they said it
[01:19:13] was from dennis he said you have any
[01:19:15] idea what we're gonna do to you now and
[01:19:17] he hung up the phone that was the last
[01:19:19] communication i had with him
[01:19:22] and what has happened to you since then
[01:19:24] after that
[01:19:29] a lot of people i've known
[01:19:32] either were
[01:19:34] audited by the irs people had anybody i
[01:19:37] know that had clearances that worked in
[01:19:39] secure programs had the clearances
[01:19:41] pulled one of them uh
[01:19:44] friendly
[01:19:45] one of mine that jeremy knows he's going
[01:19:47] on camera with me soon he'll tell the
[01:19:49] story now that he's out of work up there
[01:19:51] he was working up at the tonopah test
[01:19:53] range waiting for his clearance to come
[01:19:55] through and you know they they pulled
[01:19:57] that it would it became it's like if
[01:19:59] they can't get the person that's
[01:20:01] involved they just create a problem for
[01:20:04] everybody that surrounds them and so i
[01:20:07] mean the way it turns out it hurt a lot
[01:20:09] of people's lives that i was connected
[01:20:11] to
[01:20:12] and that's an effective way of shutting
[01:20:15] someone up did you feel that by coming
[01:20:17] forward and going public they couldn't
[01:20:19] just snuff you out that was i mean
[01:20:21] that's what i was told and george and
[01:20:22] everybody you know said that you got oh
[01:20:24] it's you know it's public there's you
[01:20:26] know no one will touch you and i i you
[01:20:28] know i i fell for it um
[01:20:32] and i i wish you didn't yeah sometimes
[01:20:36] sometimes when it's just over stress and
[01:20:37] people are camping on your lawn yeah but
[01:20:40] it's this is gonna make things worse
[01:20:42] doing this no this is gonna make things
[01:20:44] better i was trying to tell them how is
[01:20:47] this gonna make things better because
[01:20:48] you're getting a real chance to explain
[01:20:50] yourself in a way that's going to
[01:20:53] make people who are not only work in the
[01:20:56] government people that are
[01:20:58] police officers and firefighters and
[01:21:00] first responders and doctors and
[01:21:02] scientists they're going to empathize
[01:21:04] emphasize
[01:21:06] empathize and and empathize with
[01:21:10] what it must be like to be a person like
[01:21:12] you in your 20s who gets thrust into
[01:21:15] this world unknowingly
[01:21:18] and confronted with
[01:21:20] one of the most if not the most
[01:21:22] important discovery in the history of
[01:21:25] human beings the big question
[01:21:28] are we alone it's the number one
[01:21:30] question there's two questions right
[01:21:32] what happens when we die and are we
[01:21:34] alone those are the two big questions
[01:21:36] right
[01:21:37] and if we're not alone and someone knows
[01:21:40] we're not alone and these some people
[01:21:43] who know we're not alone are these
[01:21:45] bungling
[01:21:47] sort of even if they weren't it's a
[01:21:49] crime that they're not telling the rest
[01:21:52] of us but i mean i don't mean bungling
[01:21:54] in terms they're incompetent i mean they
[01:21:56] can't be competent it seems to me to
[01:21:58] what you're describing that no one can
[01:22:00] be competent with this technology
[01:22:02] like the victoria victorian era scholars
[01:22:05] analyzing some sort of a nuclear reactor
[01:22:08] there's there's no way why do you think
[01:22:10] beyond that why do you think they're not
[01:22:11] telling us let's just make an assumption
[01:22:12] that this is true right now
[01:22:14] why do you think that they're not
[01:22:17] telling us that our government doesn't
[01:22:18] tell us what's your best well let me put
[01:22:20] it into
[01:22:21] what would you do if i'm the president
[01:22:24] okay and i get this information what do
[01:22:26] i do with this what do i do with this
[01:22:27] there's something that we don't know
[01:22:29] there's something we don't understand
[01:22:31] there's something that came from another
[01:22:32] world we got it tucked away in the
[01:22:34] mountains and uh just wanted you guys to
[01:22:35] know about it hey sleep tight hey
[01:22:37] american motto's on tonight who do you
[01:22:39] think's going to win yeah who's going to
[01:22:40] win america
[01:22:44] one is uncertainty and the other one is
[01:22:46] what bob and i have talked about a lot
[01:22:47] absolutely not knowing what to tell
[01:22:50] people because you don't really
[01:22:51] understand it yourself even though
[01:22:52] you've got what do you say if you want
[01:22:54] to run a government you want to get
[01:22:55] people to pay their taxes but there's
[01:22:56] something else yeah
[01:22:58] what do you say so you have these
[01:22:59] objects fine with impunity right and you
[01:23:01] that you have something else well not
[01:23:02] only that what can you say like how much
[01:23:05] do you really know i think it's mainly
[01:23:06] the technology yeah they just want to
[01:23:08] keep the technology secret because if
[01:23:10] there's
[01:23:11] yeah whoever gets this dude yeah
[01:23:14] you you control the where you become you
[01:23:16] literally become invincible once you
[01:23:18] master the technology you can't you
[01:23:20] cannot penetrate a field like that so
[01:23:23] imagine that's i know it's all science
[01:23:25] fiction but science fiction turns into
[01:23:27] science fact if you have
[01:23:29] real force fields around aircraft and
[01:23:31] battleships
[01:23:33] you you win
[01:23:34] you win you can force your will upon
[01:23:36] anybody and uh
[01:23:38] like i said there's so much more to the
[01:23:40] story when i was first there
[01:23:42] um
[01:23:43] there were russian scientists at s4 that
[01:23:46] was this was early on in the project so
[01:23:48] this was before operation paper clip
[01:23:50] became public as well right so i would
[01:23:51] imagine that was i don't know what the
[01:23:53] date yeah when was that when did was
[01:23:55] that
[01:23:56] 98 i think 98 yeah yeah i don't know the
[01:23:58] dates on it so it's roughly 10 years
[01:24:00] later operation paperclip becomes
[01:24:02] freedom of information actually it's
[01:24:04] about russia not germany he's not a
[01:24:06] russian scientist yeah but i mean
[01:24:08] russian scientists a lot of them came
[01:24:09] from germany a lot of those those rocket
[01:24:12] scientists that work with nasa they all
[01:24:14] came from nazi scientists got it so some
[01:24:16] russians got some of them i just know
[01:24:18] that and at some point there was intense
[01:24:20] cooperation with even exchanging some
[01:24:23] ideas on nuclear weapons and you know
[01:24:26] emp tests and stuff things we would
[01:24:28] never have discussed with them but at
[01:24:29] the same time it was in the late 80s uh
[01:24:32] they were involved and actually in the
[01:24:35] area at s4 with us so you got to
[01:24:38] communicate with these guys or you saw
[01:24:39] them no i knew they were there barry
[01:24:41] barry would talk about the commies that
[01:24:42] were there the communities the commies
[01:24:45] and um that was back when they were the
[01:24:47] commies
[01:24:50] and
[01:24:52] at some point it wasn't our group but at
[01:24:55] some point there was a big discovery
[01:24:57] made
[01:24:58] and this did not happen when i was there
[01:25:01] it happened in between my trips to there
[01:25:03] and after that apparently they decided
[01:25:05] it was just too cool to share with
[01:25:07] anybody and the russians were never
[01:25:09] allowed back on the base after that but
[01:25:11] you don't know what that discovery was
[01:25:12] no no like i said it wasn't my group so
[01:25:14] one of the other groups really found out
[01:25:17] something
[01:25:18] but the you know
[01:25:20] in typical american fashion is all right
[01:25:22] this is ours you guys get the hell out
[01:25:23] of here was there any inkling that any
[01:25:26] other government had something similar
[01:25:29] no no nothing that i had heard see that
[01:25:31] was the thing that always freaked me out
[01:25:33] was why if if something was so superior
[01:25:36] to human beings it's almost like
[01:25:38] visiting an ant colony like why would
[01:25:40] you go to the queen i don't give a [ __ ]
[01:25:41] who the queen is i'm a human i'm so
[01:25:44] superior to ants i don't care who you
[01:25:45] have running your hive i'm just gonna
[01:25:47] study it i think it's who got it who got
[01:25:50] it look at the
[01:25:51] you know rocket technology in germany
[01:25:53] but they got nine of them
[01:25:55] yeah that doesn't make sense to me
[01:25:57] either so they were either in the same
[01:26:00] area
[01:26:01] or you know one had clues to where
[01:26:03] others were
[01:26:04] i mean i don't know you you have to fill
[01:26:06] that in there but you're right i mean
[01:26:08] nine of them that's a that's a a big dig
[01:26:11] if it was archaeological well one of the
[01:26:13] more recent
[01:26:14] recent sightings and the these
[01:26:17] discussions that have been coming out
[01:26:18] recently from air force pilots and navy
[01:26:21] pilots they've been talking about things
[01:26:22] happening in the ocean
[01:26:24] and that that something
[01:26:25] go literally goes into the water or
[01:26:28] something maybe below the surface
[01:26:29] thinking about water 2004 tic tac nimitz
[01:26:31] case so that's when george knapp and i
[01:26:33] broke on the radio twice before the new
[01:26:35] york times so i know this one really
[01:26:36] well commander fravor and those pilots
[01:26:38] there was
[01:26:40] a disturbance on the surface of the
[01:26:42] water
[01:26:43] commander fravor visually saw what
[01:26:45] looked like similar to across some
[01:26:48] object so it's like as if you have some
[01:26:50] like coral under the water and you've
[01:26:51] got it's breaking over right the tic tac
[01:26:54] is doing this crazy maneuver that defies
[01:26:56] it's a gravity-propelled system they saw
[01:26:58] it in the sky before they saw in the
[01:26:59] water right yeah so there was um there
[01:27:02] were radar that was picking this these
[01:27:03] things coming down from 80 000 feet
[01:27:05] dropping to 50 feet in less than a
[01:27:07] second this is it jamie what is this
[01:27:09] this is actually on the news today there
[01:27:10] was a briefing so a lot of people get
[01:27:12] this confused not this one then either
[01:27:14] no so
[01:27:15] that is called the gimbal so there's
[01:27:17] three videos released by the pentagon
[01:27:19] that are all active play and keep the
[01:27:21] volume off
[01:27:23] i i would i would really just pay
[01:27:24] attention to the source video so you've
[01:27:26] got the tic tac which is this object the
[01:27:28] commander fravor saw another pilot
[01:27:30] filmed it with a flir pod and it goes
[01:27:33] but this one you see is really important
[01:27:35] to bob's story the gimbal craft it's
[01:27:38] been recently analyzed it's fleer not
[01:27:41] only does it it's definitive that it's
[01:27:44] not a conventional anything by the by
[01:27:46] its movements but there's a pocket of
[01:27:48] cold air
[01:27:49] around a propulsion source
[01:27:52] so this object by the way sat stationary
[01:27:55] for days if not weeks it sat stationary
[01:27:58] yeah they found it 11 hours later and
[01:28:00] they were saying there's no way this
[01:28:01] thing using that kind of energy to go
[01:28:03] that fast could just hover the amount of
[01:28:05] time and by the way you're seeing a very
[01:28:08] small part of what happened that day
[01:28:10] this object was not alone
[01:28:12] and so hopefully that information comes
[01:28:14] out and we can i mean i wish we had
[01:28:16] video of it i'm sure we'd all want to
[01:28:18] see it
[01:28:19] but that's called the gimbal that was
[01:28:21] east coast
[01:28:22] right 2015.
[01:28:24] west coast 2004 was the tic tac
[01:28:27] the disturbance on the water commander
[01:28:29] fraber believes there was something
[01:28:31] under that water that was causing that
[01:28:33] disturbance when the tic tac was coming
[01:28:34] around to doing it
[01:28:35] with inside the the people that are
[01:28:37] studying this they're thinking maybe the
[01:28:39] tic tac system was causing the
[01:28:41] disturbance
[01:28:42] but the uso unidentified submerged
[01:28:45] object that he visually saw
[01:28:48] uh the whole interesting thing about
[01:28:49] that is i would love bob to describe it
[01:28:52] is why it doesn't matter if these craft
[01:28:54] are in
[01:28:55] space
[01:28:56] air or water why doesn't it matter i
[01:28:58] love when he talks about this [ __ ]
[01:29:00] well first of all commander fravor was
[01:29:02] the f-18 pilot off the nimitz that was
[01:29:05] sent out to find out what this stuff is
[01:29:07] but and it wasn't just i got a chance to
[01:29:10] talk to him recently and it wasn't just
[01:29:13] a radar image i mean commander fravor
[01:29:15] had eyes on it for over five minutes
[01:29:18] watching this thing as four other pilots
[01:29:21] did so this wasn't a radar blip or
[01:29:23] anything i mean these guys were watching
[01:29:24] this thing but
[01:29:27] you know one of the things i think in
[01:29:29] the gimbal video
[01:29:31] the way the craft that we worked on
[01:29:34] flies
[01:29:36] is it doesn't fly like
[01:29:39] a conventional aircraft does and it
[01:29:41] doesn't fly like a flying saucer with in
[01:29:43] a 1950s movie it flies belly first
[01:29:47] i mean it may set down conventionally
[01:29:50] but it always rotates it does a role
[01:29:53] maneuver puts its belly towards the
[01:29:55] target and then moves away so it's like
[01:29:57] a car flying with the wheels forward
[01:30:00] right
[01:30:00] right
[01:30:01] i mean it may lift land on the wheels
[01:30:03] but at some point when it wants to leave
[01:30:05] flips flips up points the wheels where
[01:30:07] it wants to go and takes off and the
[01:30:09] gimbal video you can see the craft do
[01:30:12] the roll maneuver and uh
[01:30:14] it's really interesting it behaves
[01:30:15] exactly like the crafts that i worked on
[01:30:18] so
[01:30:19] much like we have different shaped
[01:30:21] aircrafts and fighter jets and cars they
[01:30:24] probably have different shapes of these
[01:30:27] objects that operate under similar
[01:30:29] principles
[01:30:30] right but they all have the same power
[01:30:33] source they all have the same power
[01:30:34] source and we're also dealing with
[01:30:36] if you think about
[01:30:38] the laws of technological progression
[01:30:41] you know you think of moore's law and
[01:30:43] you think of how things accelerate
[01:30:46] you've got to think that if this
[01:30:47] civilization is who knows how many years
[01:30:50] more advanced than we are
[01:30:52] if not even years i mean i mean we're
[01:30:54] thinking about in terms of conventional
[01:30:56] terms right the way the way we look at
[01:30:57] the world i mean they meet they might be
[01:31:00] just
[01:31:01] superior in terms of their intellect
[01:31:03] they've got to be maybe maybe we don't
[01:31:05] know right well the only reason i
[01:31:07] i say that is because
[01:31:11] look everyone doesn't necessarily start
[01:31:13] at a steam engine right and go to an
[01:31:15] internal combustion engine and then you
[01:31:18] know electric power nuclear power and go
[01:31:20] up the ladder that we right come on um
[01:31:22] you know the binary if the stuff is true
[01:31:24] about the origin and the binary star
[01:31:26] system and they have heavier elements
[01:31:28] that we don't have and this element
[01:31:30] stable element 115 is a naturally
[01:31:32] occurring material
[01:31:34] maybe that's the first thing they
[01:31:36] started experimenting with and the
[01:31:38] version of their steam engine their
[01:31:39] first product was something that
[01:31:42] operated like this and actually when
[01:31:44] they came to earth to look around or you
[01:31:46] know whatever they were amazed at the
[01:31:48] stuff we were doing these guys burned
[01:31:50] stuff and squirted out the back to go
[01:31:51] forward so right um right you know who
[01:31:54] says they follow any kind of normal
[01:31:56] progression like that my my thought was
[01:31:58] if you went back to the 1400s and then
[01:32:01] you went from 1400 to 1500 you're not
[01:32:04] going to see that much of a difference
[01:32:05] technologically right if you go from
[01:32:08] 2000 to 3000 i assume there's going to
[01:32:11] be a radical change right well the yeah
[01:32:13] the delta the rate of change is is
[01:32:16] magnificently higher than it used to be
[01:32:19] right so if you think about what they
[01:32:22] had in 1988 and you think about what
[01:32:25] they probably have in 2019
[01:32:28] just
[01:32:30] logically seems like they would advance
[01:32:32] i would think so
[01:32:34] the only
[01:32:35] question is like
[01:32:36] are they living
[01:32:38] is that a living thing in terms of like
[01:32:40] a biological thing
[01:32:42] or are they some sort of an artificially
[01:32:45] created creation like we are working on
[01:32:47] right now i mean we're in the middle of
[01:32:49] working on artificial reality artificial
[01:32:52] beings sentient beings artificial
[01:32:54] intelligence there's cons silicon based
[01:32:56] life forms that they're essentially
[01:32:57] trying to create boston dynamic or was
[01:33:00] it boston dynamics of the company
[01:33:02] robots yeah you can make machines out of
[01:33:04] flesh right so a cyborg or cybernetic
[01:33:06] organism is just that you know that's
[01:33:08] what a lot of people think those like
[01:33:09] gray things are you know that people
[01:33:11] call the grays yeah it's like they were
[01:33:13] like they're machines printed from flash
[01:33:16] so what you're saying is like well they
[01:33:18] could just be no synthetic
[01:33:20] they don't even need to be you know
[01:33:22] machines well they seem to have no sex
[01:33:24] organs the way they're described by
[01:33:25] people that have had interactions with
[01:33:27] them assuming these people aren't liars
[01:33:28] right or crazy or whatever right that
[01:33:31] they have no sex organs and that they
[01:33:34] don't seem to have any muscle that is
[01:33:36] almost like a frame right and they have
[01:33:38] enormous heads i mean if you look at
[01:33:42] australopithecus or depictions of you
[01:33:45] know ancient hominids and then you go to
[01:33:47] human beings one of the things you see
[01:33:48] is bigger heads and weaker bodies well
[01:33:50] you see a clear progression of evolution
[01:33:53] too where for something like that i
[01:33:55] would lean towards a synthetic organism
[01:33:58] because it looks like it was made for a
[01:34:00] specific task there was no reproductive
[01:34:02] organs so i mean that almost kind of
[01:34:04] leaves out any kind of you know physical
[01:34:06] evolution right well that's also our
[01:34:08] bottleneck right our bottleneck is our
[01:34:10] biological imperative the the need to
[01:34:13] breed emotions fear anxiety all these
[01:34:16] different things that exist in order to
[01:34:19] force us into making sure we reproduce i
[01:34:22] mean that's essentially there's human
[01:34:24] reward systems that aren't necessary
[01:34:26] once they can figure out a way to make
[01:34:28] some sort of sentient artificial life
[01:34:31] some sort of thing that doesn't have
[01:34:33] these biological limitations that we
[01:34:34] have by the way these craft all these
[01:34:36] different kinds have been reported
[01:34:38] because it was confusing i always
[01:34:39] thought of flying saucers what i heard
[01:34:40] bob lazar talk about flying saucer right
[01:34:43] but if you look back in history people
[01:34:44] have always reported the weirdest shapes
[01:34:46] like none of them are alike you know
[01:34:49] there are the saucers but you got cigar
[01:34:51] shaped you got you know the top hat
[01:34:53] shape you have orbs why maybe they're
[01:34:56] serving different purposes they're doing
[01:34:57] different things like we'd use different
[01:34:59] tools and i want to be clear the reason
[01:35:01] i know that memo is real is because i
[01:35:03] spent a lot of time with dr edgar
[01:35:05] mitchell six man to walk on the moon
[01:35:07] last guy to film him before he died
[01:35:09] right
[01:35:10] that's how i know i don't want any
[01:35:11] journalists thinking i got it from
[01:35:13] anywhere else i know because of dr
[01:35:14] mitchell and he said the same thing
[01:35:16] maybe these things are
[01:35:18] performing different tasks you know and
[01:35:21] that's what i seem if you if you think
[01:35:22] about what an alien is in terms of our
[01:35:25] our
[01:35:26] the sort of iconic image of an alien
[01:35:28] like the steven spielberg closing cows
[01:35:30] are the third time the third kind alien
[01:35:33] they seem like
[01:35:35] what we'd assume a human being would
[01:35:37] eventually become right
[01:35:39] and if these things are tiny human
[01:35:41] beings are smaller than they've ever
[01:35:42] been before they're weaker than they've
[01:35:43] ever been before and there seems to be a
[01:35:45] trend in that direction and this trend
[01:35:48] seems to be amplified by our
[01:35:50] technological progression
[01:35:52] there our
[01:35:53] lack of need for muscle strength and our
[01:35:55] lack of need for violence and we're
[01:35:57] moving in a society to try to get away
[01:36:00] from all the things that we think are
[01:36:01] abhorrent about human beings and the
[01:36:03] terrible behaviors that we have if we
[01:36:06] one day do give birth to some sort of an
[01:36:10] artificial being like marshall mcluhan's
[01:36:13] uh
[01:36:14] quote we are the sex organs of the
[01:36:16] machine world
[01:36:18] you know that one day okay i'll buy this
[01:36:20] yeah mcloone was brilliant and that that
[01:36:23] quote has always been one of my
[01:36:24] favorites because okay what are we doing
[01:36:26] when we're constantly technologically
[01:36:28] innovating we're constantly looking for
[01:36:30] faster cars better computers bigger
[01:36:32] screens faster more resolution more
[01:36:35] pixels more this more that higher
[01:36:36] bandwidth 5g 10g right what are we doing
[01:36:39] we're moving into this in this if you
[01:36:41] just follow it objectively stay stand
[01:36:43] back don't attach yourself or your
[01:36:45] civilization your culture to it and look
[01:36:47] at what it is we're moving
[01:36:49] a hundred percent towards technological
[01:36:52] innovation if you looked at this species
[01:36:54] from afar and if you weren't a part of
[01:36:56] it you would say what does this species
[01:36:57] do oh they make things they make things
[01:37:00] better every year beehives are the same
[01:37:02] [ __ ] thing that you see 10 years ago
[01:37:04] you go by you see a beehive it's amazing
[01:37:05] it's cool but they're the same [ __ ]
[01:37:07] thing they figured out how to do it they
[01:37:08] make a beehive right we don't do that we
[01:37:11] make better things what would you
[01:37:12] constantly and at some point i think
[01:37:14] that technology is going to fuse with us
[01:37:16] yes and we're going to become it's
[01:37:17] already happening yeah elon musk talked
[01:37:19] about it on my podcast that we are
[01:37:21] cyborgs you just carry it in your pocket
[01:37:22] it's a phone it answers any question you
[01:37:24] want you can talk to it it'll give you
[01:37:26] the answers the answers instantaneously
[01:37:28] it navigates you it has all your phone
[01:37:31] numbers and it has all your contacts you
[01:37:32] can get a hold of people people
[01:37:33] listening to you through it it's
[01:37:35] connecting us in ways even involuntarily
[01:37:37] haptics that kind of thing yeah it's
[01:37:39] also getting on your wrist how many
[01:37:40] people have eye watches apple watches
[01:37:43] right and that's only because we can't
[01:37:45] integrate them yet but you know that
[01:37:47] point is 100
[01:37:48] yeah i didn't joke about it last night
[01:37:50] but i have a bit about it that i do
[01:37:51] about the the integration between humans
[01:37:53] and technology that's what would you do
[01:37:55] if you were a hyper intelligence right
[01:37:58] would you do the work yourself or would
[01:37:59] you create some cool things called like
[01:38:01] humans to do it for you would you create
[01:38:03] things that are cybernetic organisms to
[01:38:05] come in with machines and do it for you
[01:38:07] if you're a hyper intelligence that has
[01:38:09] kind of changed like you've described
[01:38:11] you'd probably create workers right well
[01:38:13] that's a vast conspiracy theory i'm not
[01:38:16] talking about conspiracy but it is a
[01:38:17] kind of a conspiracy i'm asking you well
[01:38:19] i mean i don't think it's necessarily
[01:38:21] that i mean you could look at it that
[01:38:23] way but that is the way a conspiracy
[01:38:25] theorist would look at it the way i
[01:38:26] would look at it is like there's
[01:38:27] obviously a progression going on a
[01:38:29] biological progression there's some sort
[01:38:31] of an integration with technology
[01:38:33] there's some sort of imperative this
[01:38:35] need for technological innovation it's
[01:38:37] inescapable everyone has it we and i
[01:38:39] think it's attached to materialism in
[01:38:41] some sort of a strange way because so
[01:38:43] many people work so hard to get new
[01:38:45] things and like god that seems so
[01:38:47] illogical and preposterous and it makes
[01:38:49] people unhappy and depression's on the
[01:38:50] rise but nobody seems to be able to stop
[01:38:52] it like why is that well maybe it's
[01:38:54] because we are the
[01:38:57] caterpillars that give birth to the
[01:38:59] butterfly maybe that's what we're doing
[01:39:02] very well what our job is to do is to
[01:39:04] make some sort of a cocoon and we don't
[01:39:06] even know we're doing it while we're
[01:39:08] doing it do you think a caterpillar is
[01:39:10] well hey caterpillar what are you doing
[01:39:11] man just i'm doing my thing it's my job
[01:39:14] i have to make a cocoon then become like
[01:39:15] a body this could be a natural part of
[01:39:17] evolution it could be that we're just
[01:39:18] supposed to do this exactly and make the
[01:39:20] jump to
[01:39:21] some sort of mechanized right
[01:39:24] yeah non-biological an orangutan that is
[01:39:27] uh fishing with a spear
[01:39:30] no they they've figured out how to fish
[01:39:32] with spears there's
[01:39:34] uh there's um
[01:39:36] primatologists
[01:39:37] without somebody showing them how to
[01:39:39] fish no they've imitated human beings
[01:39:41] doing it and now they do it but they do
[01:39:43] it independently they're not trained
[01:39:45] orangutans they're wild around look at
[01:39:47] that
[01:39:48] there's a wild rice okay that's
[01:39:50] impressive very impressive well there's
[01:39:53] these primatologists i guess you would
[01:39:54] call them primatologists that's a term
[01:39:56] that's a great biologist biologists that
[01:39:58] believe that
[01:40:00] monkeys and chimps
[01:40:02] and some of the great apes are moving
[01:40:04] into the stone age that they've
[01:40:06] currently entered the stone age like
[01:40:08] they're not staying what they were a
[01:40:10] hundred thousand years ago or five
[01:40:12] hundred thousand years ago but they're
[01:40:14] actively using tools and they're
[01:40:16] experimenting with different different
[01:40:17] ways to use those tools and then they're
[01:40:19] making tools out of stone they're making
[01:40:21] tools out of sticks and they're they're
[01:40:23] using them
[01:40:24] well this might just be what happens
[01:40:27] this might just be what happens
[01:40:30] i mean why else why would why the [ __ ]
[01:40:32] we work so hard i mean i i was i was
[01:40:34] driving to la this morning um i had a
[01:40:36] doctor's appointment so i was on the 405
[01:40:38] at uh eight in the morning like jesus
[01:40:40] christ like this is so crazy when you're
[01:40:43] in the 405 in l.a at eight o'clock in
[01:40:44] the morning you see literally a million
[01:40:46] cars
[01:40:47] and this is everywhere you go as people
[01:40:49] but and also i'm in a tesla so i have it
[01:40:52] on autopilot so i'm there sitting i'm
[01:40:54] listening to a podcast i barely have my
[01:40:56] hand on the wheel i'm not touching [ __ ]
[01:40:58] this car's driving me along i'm not even
[01:41:00] doing anything i'm just i'm just hanging
[01:41:02] out it's so much less stressful by the
[01:41:04] way to do that that way right so it
[01:41:06] encourages you to innovate it encourages
[01:41:08] you to embrace this new technology i got
[01:41:11] this giant screen it's showing me the
[01:41:12] navigation in front of me i'll be there
[01:41:15] five minutes early excellent and i'm
[01:41:17] listening to a podcast wirelessly it's
[01:41:19] bluetooth screen streaming from my phone
[01:41:22] and i pulled that podcast which came out
[01:41:24] today out of the [ __ ] sky and i'm
[01:41:26] listening to it and i'm all comfortable
[01:41:28] in my nice little car just driving on my
[01:41:30] way to the doctor's office this is
[01:41:31] irresistible stuff yeah yeah different
[01:41:33] than your walkman yeah you know that can
[01:41:35] be irresistible
[01:41:37] it is a resistance it's frighteningly
[01:41:38] irresistible but is it frightening i
[01:41:40] mean if you were a monkey right if you
[01:41:42] were um an australiopithecus would you
[01:41:44] go man i don't want to [ __ ] be a
[01:41:46] person i live in a house that's [ __ ]
[01:41:48] i like just swinging around on trees i
[01:41:50] like uh running from jaguars this is
[01:41:52] life guys life is running from
[01:41:54] crocodiles it's not living in a [ __ ]
[01:41:56] suburban there's probably some that are
[01:41:57] like that yeah i don't think so i think
[01:41:59] i think
[01:42:00] when it comes we're going to embrace it
[01:42:02] we're going to embrace it the same way
[01:42:03] you embrace cell phones the same way
[01:42:05] embrace television there's going to be a
[01:42:07] few holdouts i don't even have an email
[01:42:08] address man those are those there's a
[01:42:10] few and far between the good luck with
[01:42:12] that [ __ ] face go move to the woods ted
[01:42:14] kaczynski yeah i was just going to throw
[01:42:16] ted's against
[01:42:17] ted kaczynski was right this is
[01:42:18] something that i think about sometimes
[01:42:20] when i get really high that ted
[01:42:22] kaczynski was a part of the harvard lsd
[01:42:25] studies this has been proven ted
[01:42:26] kaczynski they cooked his [ __ ] brain
[01:42:29] when he was at harvard and then when he
[01:42:30] went over to berkeley and became a
[01:42:32] professor his goal was to make enough
[01:42:33] money so that he could
[01:42:35] implement this program and live in the
[01:42:37] woods and then write his manifesto and
[01:42:39] start killing people that were involved
[01:42:41] in propagating technology he was
[01:42:43] expunged from the harvard uh logs by the
[01:42:46] way this is something my friend just
[01:42:47] called me about so there's like this uh
[01:42:50] private library and they used to print
[01:42:52] people's names whenever they were part
[01:42:54] of a university and he was one of a
[01:42:55] handful of people that were expunged
[01:42:58] from it i want to jump back to the one
[01:43:00] thing joe
[01:43:01] i want to be very careful with that word
[01:43:02] conspiracy theorist
[01:43:04] what i was what i was saying to you was
[01:43:06] we we terraform our earth right
[01:43:08] we terraform we change the environment
[01:43:10] we do all this innovation
[01:43:12] what is stopping us from thinking that
[01:43:14] that's not being done i'm not saying it
[01:43:16] is i'm saying what's stopping us from
[01:43:18] thinking that that's being done on a
[01:43:20] much bigger level on a cosmic level you
[01:43:22] mean like aliens coming down doing that
[01:43:24] to humans i'm telling you that there is
[01:43:26] something here that's there's a fact you
[01:43:28] know there's something there a craft
[01:43:30] they're here they're not ours they're
[01:43:31] here so the question is
[01:43:34] what is that about and i'm just looking
[01:43:35] at what we do with what you're
[01:43:37] describing with technology
[01:43:39] i think it's much more likely that the
[01:43:41] same way we observe chimps and we
[01:43:43] observed that they are now in the stone
[01:43:45] age that they're observing us and that
[01:43:47] they're recognizing that there is a
[01:43:49] pattern that there is uh there's steps
[01:43:51] that happen i mean carl sagan talked
[01:43:53] about the different levels of
[01:43:54] civilization and that you know if we
[01:43:56] don't get past certain levels we're
[01:43:58] never going to reach this i mean we're
[01:44:00] in type 1 civilization we're going to
[01:44:01] stay at type zero well we're in this
[01:44:03] warring
[01:44:04] polluting yeah pillaging we're awesome
[01:44:07] civilizations
[01:44:08] are awesome it's like well we're awesome
[01:44:10] in a lot of ways you know but in that
[01:44:12] way we're not well yeah we're we're
[01:44:14] children that have immense power that we
[01:44:16] didn't really the other thing is you're
[01:44:17] using the immense power that other
[01:44:20] people have created right i mean even
[01:44:22] when you're driving a car you're
[01:44:23] stomping on the gas like whew you didn't
[01:44:25] invent the [ __ ] engine you didn't
[01:44:27] invent tires there's all these things
[01:44:29] that were in involved in the creation of
[01:44:31] this thing that is
[01:44:33] really outside of your
[01:44:34] [Music]
[01:44:35] grasp of understanding but yet you have
[01:44:38] the ability to use it like a person with
[01:44:39] a gun i'm just gonna bang bang bang
[01:44:41] people you don't you didn't invent a gun
[01:44:43] so like you've you've without the
[01:44:45] intellect to craft and engineer and and
[01:44:49] and manifest these creations you just
[01:44:52] have access to them because you have
[01:44:53] paper or you have bitcoin or you have
[01:44:55] whatever the [ __ ] you're using using a
[01:44:56] credit card now you have
[01:44:58] almost no responsibility you just you
[01:45:01] could just flippantly use these things
[01:45:03] which is why
[01:45:04] we uh
[01:45:05] you know we're very childlike in our
[01:45:07] actions because we haven't had to earn
[01:45:10] the responsibility we haven't had to
[01:45:12] earn these things that we've been able
[01:45:14] to have and you've only been able to
[01:45:16] have them because other people have
[01:45:18] innovated and spent
[01:45:20] ungodly amounts of time and effort and
[01:45:22] focus in the lab to create these things
[01:45:24] and then they've all put them together
[01:45:26] and then what is the what's the reason
[01:45:27] to put them together to profit well
[01:45:29] what's the reason of prop well why are
[01:45:31] you doing this so you can buy more
[01:45:32] things what are we doing what are we
[01:45:34] doing we're making better things that's
[01:45:36] what we do that's all that's all we do
[01:45:38] is make better things yeah why the [ __ ]
[01:45:39] do we need oil why do we need oil why
[01:45:41] can't we just burn wood and stay home
[01:45:43] why can't we grow chickens and food in
[01:45:45] the backyard why can't we do well we
[01:45:47] [ __ ] can we certainly can people do
[01:45:49] do it but we decide to make that almost
[01:45:52] impossible our preferred way of living
[01:45:54] is to stuff everyone into a very small
[01:45:56] area where no one grows anything other
[01:45:57] than weed
[01:45:59] this is what la is la is 20 million
[01:46:02] people with hard surfaces as many hard
[01:46:04] surfaces as you can boy if you've got an
[01:46:06] acre backyard in l.a holy [ __ ] look at
[01:46:08] all that green this is amazing well no
[01:46:10] that's the [ __ ] earth coming through
[01:46:13] this weird sort of creation that we've
[01:46:15] put on top of the earth but the goal is
[01:46:17] that like new york city that's there's
[01:46:19] none of it right you just got you've got
[01:46:21] central park and they just got human
[01:46:23] [ __ ] you stacked up no one's growing
[01:46:25] anything and then constant work
[01:46:27] everyone's up early go go go
[01:46:30] innovate progress make that money so you
[01:46:33] can buy more things and every year hey
[01:46:35] apple where's this [ __ ] new phone as
[01:46:38] if your phone isn't good enough yeah
[01:46:40] like your phone's taking pictures and
[01:46:42] videos and people are calling you and
[01:46:44] you got applications to tell you which
[01:46:46] way the wind's blowing it's not good
[01:46:48] enough a blink of an eye blink of an eye
[01:46:49] it's all gone though that you know like
[01:46:51] 10 000 years and the hoover dam goes or
[01:46:53] whatever you know mount rushmore
[01:46:55] disintegrates so it's amazing because we
[01:46:57] have created that and and everything's
[01:46:58] trying to spring up through that we keep
[01:47:00] it maintenance down but we're we're a
[01:47:02] blink man something hits
[01:47:04] but we don't think that way well you
[01:47:05] know you think in terms of your own life
[01:47:07] right you think in terms of what you
[01:47:09] want and what you need right now
[01:47:11] you know what it's we are in many ways
[01:47:14] this combination of this weird primitive
[01:47:16] ape-like thing
[01:47:18] with
[01:47:19] the ability to calculate and manipulate
[01:47:22] our world and our environment that makes
[01:47:24] us wholly unique on top of that with
[01:47:26] existential angst and and fear so what
[01:47:28] do you do with that we [ __ ] water it
[01:47:30] down with the anti-depressants give
[01:47:32] these [ __ ] people some [ __ ] that
[01:47:33] keeps them moving
[01:47:34] they're worried about the future they're
[01:47:36] trying to figure out what reality is if
[01:47:37] this you're on a goddamn convertible
[01:47:39] spaceship spinning a thousand miles an
[01:47:41] hour hurling through infinity there's no
[01:47:43] meaning to this thing just keep making
[01:47:45] [ __ ] keep making stuff and then one day
[01:47:48] they're going to be able to hit that
[01:47:49] switch and this life will be born out of
[01:47:53] innovation and thinking and progress and
[01:47:56] technology and more than likely it's
[01:47:59] probably going to be what we're seeing
[01:48:01] that these things are that you're you're
[01:48:03] observing
[01:48:04] i'm not observing them but yeah
[01:48:06] someone's obviously
[01:48:07] are you implying that they're us
[01:48:09] i don't think they are us but i think
[01:48:11] they are what happens when things keep
[01:48:13] going
[01:48:15] it's not us just like we're not monkeys
[01:48:16] right i'm not a chimp
[01:48:19] oh that'd be cool
[01:48:20] they're from here is your idea no no no
[01:48:23] that this is what happens all over the
[01:48:25] universe right yeah this is what
[01:48:26] happened look here's the thing you know
[01:48:28] i went to see brian cox's um
[01:48:31] he has this amazing live show with robin
[01:48:34] ins where they
[01:48:35] they have these led screens these huge
[01:48:39] screens with high resolution depictions
[01:48:42] of the cosmos and one of the most
[01:48:43] mind-blowing things
[01:48:45] was he has this large-scale image of the
[01:48:48] universe and it shows all the individual
[01:48:51] galaxies of the universe and it just
[01:48:52] keeps moving through all these galaxies
[01:48:55] in three dimensions
[01:48:56] and it's [ __ ] incredible but what's
[01:48:58] stunning is the relative uniformity of
[01:49:01] it even at you know i mean you're
[01:49:03] obviously looking at
[01:49:05] an incredibly small depiction of
[01:49:07] something that's immensely large like a
[01:49:10] galaxy of hundreds of billions of stars
[01:49:11] you're seeing it as this little dot but
[01:49:13] this little dot that's flying through
[01:49:16] space surrounded by other little darts
[01:49:18] with very similarly spaced distances
[01:49:22] yeah
[01:49:23] yeah so mike if we see uniformity in
[01:49:25] that form in terms of like the distance
[01:49:28] between galaxy so many galaxies is so
[01:49:30] it's so similar they might vary slightly
[01:49:32] and that slightly might be hundreds of
[01:49:34] millions of light years right but but
[01:49:36] but there's so much uniformity why would
[01:49:38] we not assume that that uniformity
[01:49:41] exists pretty much everywhere and that
[01:49:43] all these things that you're seeing that
[01:49:44] are so similar you do see binary star
[01:49:47] systems you do see single star systems
[01:49:49] like star but there's also some some
[01:49:50] speculation that earth and that our
[01:49:52] solar system is one time was a binary
[01:49:54] star system right i mean that's one of
[01:49:56] the the speculations about that that
[01:49:58] object that they find outside the kuiper
[01:50:00] belt that they think is 10 times larger
[01:50:01] than earth they think it might have been
[01:50:03] at one point in time a star but this
[01:50:06] this uniformity that you see why
[01:50:07] wouldn't we think that that
[01:50:09] that has its same implications
[01:50:11] biologically that there's some sort of a
[01:50:13] biological uniformity and that this
[01:50:15] happens
[01:50:16] given the right sets of circumstances
[01:50:19] you should tell them some of the stuff
[01:50:20] that you read that you don't know is
[01:50:22] true i mean if the the stuff was true
[01:50:24] about the
[01:50:26] propulsion stuff i mean anyway he well
[01:50:28] what have you read
[01:50:29] what you saw too and you know what are
[01:50:31] you talking about
[01:50:34] spill the beans bob
[01:50:36] i gotta poke the bear here let's get
[01:50:37] some more liquor in you
[01:50:39] the um
[01:50:42] well i mean
[01:50:43] the again the the only thing i could
[01:50:46] verify was what i had my hands on um
[01:50:49] they were
[01:50:51] you know there was talk of weapon
[01:50:52] systems that there were different
[01:50:54] projects project galileo project
[01:50:56] sidekick was supposed to be weapon
[01:50:58] applications of the craft
[01:51:00] project looking glass had to do with
[01:51:03] time any effects of time in the craft
[01:51:05] now i don't think we're not
[01:51:07] talking about making a time machine like
[01:51:09] in science fiction but we're talking
[01:51:11] about you know small distortions
[01:51:13] intentional distortions of time and how
[01:51:15] that can be
[01:51:16] used
[01:51:18] you know as a uh not as a well it was
[01:51:21] part of a weapon program how are you
[01:51:22] informed in this these again where
[01:51:24] there's just those small briefings that
[01:51:26] i read but
[01:51:27] again i don't really like to talk about
[01:51:29] those because i don't have any
[01:51:30] information on them and it was just you
[01:51:32] know small briefings but he told
[01:51:34] commander fravor that what he saw might
[01:51:36] have been a time dilation
[01:51:39] well it could be because gravity affects
[01:51:41] time you know space time i'm sure you've
[01:51:43] heard of that and um
[01:51:46] you know what what commander fraber saw
[01:51:49] as he was in the f-18 approaching it he
[01:51:52] said that he described it as a
[01:51:54] ping-pong ball in a cup and shaking it
[01:51:56] back and forth it was moving that fast
[01:51:59] now obviously if there's anything inside
[01:52:00] there
[01:52:01] it it's going to be battered to hell but
[01:52:04] you know my point was was that well one
[01:52:07] of two things
[01:52:08] either there's a gravitational envelope
[01:52:10] in there which negates any inertia
[01:52:13] effects
[01:52:14] or
[01:52:15] you are seeing through a gravity
[01:52:17] distortion field
[01:52:19] so you know just like you're looking at
[01:52:21] a
[01:52:22] a hot highway and you see
[01:52:24] you know an optical distortion going
[01:52:26] through there well the same thing
[01:52:28] happens in gravity and the craft may not
[01:52:30] actually be moving like that it may just
[01:52:32] look like it because you're seeing you
[01:52:34] can only see it through the field so it
[01:52:37] may be making much more gentle moves i'm
[01:52:40] not saying that's it but it has to be
[01:52:42] one of the two
[01:52:44] and the thing shows up 60 miles away
[01:52:46] they noticed it on radar 60 seconds
[01:52:49] after left commander favor but it was at
[01:52:52] his cap point which is the next point he
[01:52:54] was destined to go to
[01:52:56] 60 miles away and in 60 seconds on radar
[01:53:00] the same object ends up there so it's
[01:53:03] going a mile a second no
[01:53:05] they i think the radar just picked it up
[01:53:08] in 60 seconds
[01:53:09] yeah it could have been there instantly
[01:53:11] but yeah we don't know the cycle time
[01:53:13] nobody knows that that's whole thing oh
[01:53:15] so it cycles like radar cycles yeah it
[01:53:18] doesn't it doesn't sweep but i mean it
[01:53:20] scans yeah it's a planar array so it
[01:53:22] just
[01:53:23] you know
[01:53:24] scans around it at random places that's
[01:53:26] a spy one does the really cool yeah it
[01:53:28] doesn't do the whole loop anymore right
[01:53:30] the point uh the point is though that
[01:53:32] the craft moved to his next location
[01:53:35] before he knew where his next location
[01:53:38] was gonna be jesus and
[01:53:41] that's
[01:53:42] i mean that's well documented
[01:53:44] so that's uh that's a pretty shocking
[01:53:47] piece of information what's fascinating
[01:53:49] to me too is that you were discussing
[01:53:50] this um the the way this reactor worked
[01:53:55] and that these things were not really
[01:53:56] connected
[01:53:58] no nothing is connected
[01:54:00] there's no wiring at all
[01:54:04] that freaks me the [ __ ] out charge your
[01:54:06] iphone you know yeah one wireless
[01:54:08] yeah
[01:54:09] yeah i mean that's the that's a simple
[01:54:12] electromagnetic
[01:54:13] yeah i know again but that's just simple
[01:54:15] electromagnet magnetic induction right
[01:54:17] but i mean tesla the scientist had this
[01:54:19] concept of right
[01:54:24] he wanted to send
[01:54:25] wireless electricity through the sky and
[01:54:27] westinghouse was like get the [ __ ] out
[01:54:29] of here with that like when anybody
[01:54:30] could just pull electricity out of this
[01:54:32] meter yeah they couldn't they couldn't
[01:54:34] just talk in the car right over and
[01:54:35] trying to chill him out you know we're
[01:54:36] talking about tesla and how he you know
[01:54:38] he couldn't be metered and how it all
[01:54:40] went down so it's funny bring it up yeah
[01:54:42] yeah that that i mean who knows what
[01:54:45] would have happened in terms of
[01:54:46] innovation had he been allowed to go
[01:54:48] forward with that well we probably
[01:54:50] wouldn't have computers
[01:54:52] you think
[01:54:53] yeah i'm pretty positive i mean forget
[01:54:55] about microelectronics well this is
[01:54:57] dumping huge amounts of electromagnetic
[01:55:00] energy in the air and yeah we'd be able
[01:55:01] to wirelessly turn on our lights but
[01:55:06] there'd be no radio communication the
[01:55:07] interference would be something we could
[01:55:09] would be overwhelming it would induce
[01:55:11] electric currents in anything with a
[01:55:13] small wire on it so integrated circuits
[01:55:16] transistors would be disintegrated
[01:55:17] before they were even you know tested
[01:55:20] for operation so it it would it would
[01:55:23] destroy [ __ ] us up yeah it would have
[01:55:25] stopped us dead we'd have it'd be great
[01:55:27] you could turn lighters on and heaters
[01:55:29] from all over the place with no wires
[01:55:30] but it would stop modern electronics and
[01:55:33] if we became dependent on it it would
[01:55:34] almost be like our dependence on fossil
[01:55:37] fuels although it's destructive it's
[01:55:38] very difficult for us to get off the
[01:55:40] nipple
[01:55:41] it would have changed the course of how
[01:55:42] we developed which is so interesting
[01:55:44] when you talk about if a civilization
[01:55:46] another star system didn't even start
[01:55:48] with fossil fuels they had 115 naturally
[01:55:50] on their planet and they're like cool
[01:55:51] anti-gravity is pretty awesome well the
[01:55:53] fact that i think it's important that
[01:55:55] that actually happened yeah
[01:55:58] it might have been stopped in its tracks
[01:55:59] for a reason
[01:56:00] whoa
[01:56:02] and
[01:56:04] it's just it's i think it's incredibly
[01:56:06] difficult for us to imagine
[01:56:08] technological progression under another
[01:56:10] timeline other than the one that we've
[01:56:11] experienced yeah that's difficult
[01:56:14] if we imagine what this
[01:56:16] alien race must have been like and
[01:56:19] i mean god
[01:56:20] just just to be able to see something
[01:56:23] take like i mean obviously we've seen it
[01:56:25] in different life forms right like we
[01:56:26] see the life of certain beetles in
[01:56:28] comparison to the life of certain fish
[01:56:30] very very different existence very
[01:56:32] different life cycles octopus yeah
[01:56:35] octopus yeah i mean we see all these
[01:56:37] different variables in terms of
[01:56:38] biological entities on earth but we
[01:56:41] don't see it in terms of technological
[01:56:42] innovation as we're the only one that's
[01:56:45] intelligent that can innovate when we
[01:56:47] have intelligent creatures but they're
[01:56:48] in the ocean the only other thing that
[01:56:50] are like us are dolphins and orcas and
[01:56:52] whales and they don't have the ability
[01:56:54] to manipulate their environment and
[01:56:55] subsequently because they don't have the
[01:56:57] ability to manipulate their environment
[01:56:59] we put them in fish tanks and we're like
[01:57:01] get in the tank do some tricks right
[01:57:03] you know the only thing he saw in the
[01:57:05] craft if we were considering bob's story
[01:57:08] the only thing that you he saw in the
[01:57:09] craft that he related to that looked
[01:57:11] like a human could make was this
[01:57:13] honeycomb hatch and i always loved that
[01:57:15] because you're like obsessed with this
[01:57:17] thing that you could recognize you know
[01:57:19] the re yeah i i only focus on that
[01:57:21] because it was the one thing that i
[01:57:23] understood how it worked what was it and
[01:57:25] it was it was the access to the level
[01:57:27] below
[01:57:28] and
[01:57:29] it was um
[01:57:31] well you know if you take uh
[01:57:33] you have a six pack of beer and you take
[01:57:35] out the cardboard dividers
[01:57:37] set it on the table you can put a lot of
[01:57:40] pressure on the top
[01:57:42] but if you push it from the sides it
[01:57:44] collapses flat
[01:57:45] so it was something like that in a
[01:57:47] honeycomb shape that was essentially
[01:57:49] some sort of sheet metal and you could
[01:57:52] walk on that in the upper layer but if
[01:57:54] you took the corner stuck your finger in
[01:57:57] and pushed it collapsed and made a
[01:57:59] an entryway so i thought that was a
[01:58:01] really unique i'd never seen that before
[01:58:04] and it was the only thing in the craft
[01:58:06] that made absolute sense to me i said ah
[01:58:08] we can make that and all that is is a
[01:58:10] hatchway was there any discussion about
[01:58:13] the materials that were used to make the
[01:58:15] craft
[01:58:16] i'm sure there was but that was a
[01:58:17] metallurgy division had nothing to do
[01:58:19] with us so you never got a
[01:58:22] not even the slightest briefing i don't
[01:58:23] even know if it was metal or it was
[01:58:25] ceramic it's i think it there's a fine
[01:58:28] line between the two
[01:58:30] now one of the things that's happened to
[01:58:32] you that has allowed people to discredit
[01:58:34] you was
[01:58:36] there's obviously been some sort of an
[01:58:38] effort to erase your past
[01:58:40] yeah some sort of a ref uh an effort to
[01:58:43] erase your education history your
[01:58:46] employment history at los alamos in fact
[01:58:48] the only way your employment history was
[01:58:50] proven at los alamos is someone got a
[01:58:52] list a directory of the employees from
[01:58:54] the past
[01:58:55] and read into it and you were on that
[01:58:57] list so it proved that you worked there
[01:58:58] even though people were trying to deny
[01:59:00] and they were trying to use that as a
[01:59:01] way to discredit you that you never did
[01:59:02] work at los alamos you weren't really a
[01:59:04] scientist
[01:59:06] what was what was that like to
[01:59:08] experience i mean of course we're
[01:59:09] talking about the 1980s the 1990s when
[01:59:12] you could get away with something like
[01:59:13] that
[01:59:14] yeah obviously there are a lot less
[01:59:17] uh
[01:59:18] a lot less records on computers at that
[01:59:20] time it was still file cabinets and
[01:59:22] folders but uh yeah that was frightening
[01:59:25] that was one of the first things
[01:59:28] i think it's i think george knapp was
[01:59:30] the first one that uncovered that i mean
[01:59:32] he saw my birth certificate disappear he
[01:59:35] um it disappeared yeah there was no
[01:59:38] record of you yeah there was there was
[01:59:39] no record of that there was uh no record
[01:59:42] his mom tells me about that like it was
[01:59:44] frightening for her for he's got a real
[01:59:46] family you know he's a real person it's
[01:59:48] frightening for her
[01:59:49] but if the los alamos thing really
[01:59:51] surprised me and that they were so
[01:59:54] adamant that no this guy never worked
[01:59:56] here don't be ridiculous and george went
[01:59:58] back and forth you know for i got the
[02:00:00] letters on the wall yeah months i mean
[02:00:02] it was ridiculous but fortunately
[02:00:03] somebody came up with a 1982 phone book
[02:00:06] directory i mean and also
[02:00:09] uh originally i told you uh
[02:00:12] you know when i worked there i was on
[02:00:14] the front page of the the paper so they
[02:00:16] were still able to archive you know
[02:00:18] bring that back from the archives and
[02:00:20] you know bob lazar a physicist working
[02:00:22] here at los alamos so there was at least
[02:00:24] something there but uh somehow george
[02:00:27] came up with the phone director and then
[02:00:29] george then bob took george with cameras
[02:00:32] into los alamos oh yeah yeah so we flew
[02:00:35] out there and i said look come on in
[02:00:37] i'll show you where i worked we'll go in
[02:00:39] we'll meet people and george went with
[02:00:41] me and you know
[02:00:43] i navigate the place oh yeah and you
[02:00:44] know met people and you know and almost
[02:00:47] was also the place where they had the
[02:00:50] machine that was able to read the the
[02:00:53] size of your digits no no that wasn't
[02:00:55] awesome that was s4 that was s4 and
[02:00:57] explain that
[02:00:59] so
[02:01:00] now this was back in the 80s and this is
[02:01:02] back in the 80s where when you discuss
[02:01:04] this people like this doesn't even exist
[02:01:06] yeah okay what was it it was a way
[02:01:09] you know this is before fingerprint
[02:01:11] scanners and
[02:01:12] you know and anything of
[02:01:15] anything any high resolution scanner at
[02:01:17] that time so what it was was a device
[02:01:19] that uh had a little picture of a hand
[02:01:22] on a glass plate with pins in it so you
[02:01:24] could jam your hand in there and there
[02:01:26] was a bright light above it and a sensor
[02:01:28] underneath and when you put your hand in
[02:01:31] there the light would turn on and it
[02:01:33] would measure the bones in your finger
[02:01:36] because the light shown through your
[02:01:37] bones
[02:01:38] and apparently
[02:01:41] the length of the bones in your fingers
[02:01:43] are extremely unique and easy to measure
[02:01:46] and they use that when you put your
[02:01:48] hands on there the light would turn on
[02:01:49] and your badge would pop out there's it
[02:01:51] right oh there it is that's that's it
[02:01:53] and i tried to describe this um to
[02:01:55] people and they said that is the most
[02:01:57] ridiculous thing we've ever heard
[02:01:59] and um
[02:02:00] i said hey that my badge came out of
[02:02:02] that thing i put my hand on it badge
[02:02:05] popped out and that's how i could open
[02:02:06] the doors and get into s4
[02:02:08] and um you know and everybody
[02:02:10] discredited that they said it was
[02:02:12] [ __ ] it was science fiction and
[02:02:13] jeremy you found this
[02:02:15] i i found it through a good friend of
[02:02:17] mine named tyler rogoway and he had some
[02:02:19] good sources inside of area 52 where
[02:02:21] they also used these for the stealth
[02:02:24] program right around that time so now
[02:02:26] i've got all these people that worked
[02:02:27] within who you know said only if you're
[02:02:30] in certain programs would we use this
[02:02:32] technology it's kind of [ __ ] actually
[02:02:33] they didn't keep it for very long
[02:02:34] beginning of biometrics so i was able to
[02:02:36] reveal it in my film i kept my mouth
[02:02:38] shut until i showed it to bob you know
[02:02:41] the movie is the first time he saw it
[02:02:43] was how you see it in the documentary
[02:02:44] that's his genuine reaction i'm getting
[02:02:46] goosebumps that was a great idea the way
[02:02:47] you did it thank you man because you
[02:02:49] know what guess what i'm actually trying
[02:02:50] to see if he's telling the truth that's
[02:02:52] how i started you know that's how i
[02:02:53] started so it was really cool to see
[02:02:55] that that you get to see it his actual
[02:02:57] reaction has that been verified by other
[02:03:00] people yeah so
[02:03:01] yeah so to me it has uh personally i get
[02:03:04] emails every day and people are telling
[02:03:06] me where these are used and how they're
[02:03:08] used and send me photos i got a lot of
[02:03:09] photos of identity mats now well how
[02:03:11] they were used right they're not how
[02:03:12] they were used yeah but uh i don't the
[02:03:15] most recent one was
[02:03:16] way more recent than i thought in
[02:03:18] another country but yeah that technology
[02:03:20] was used so what's so funny is
[02:03:23] um
[02:03:24] that this technology even in the area 52
[02:03:28] where they'd use him for tonopah one of
[02:03:29] the guys who will go on camera with me
[02:03:31] he will do an interview with me he was a
[02:03:33] technician for one of these and and he
[02:03:36] hated them because they were really bad
[02:03:37] they always broke down and never and he
[02:03:39] was a technician for him now he won't
[02:03:41] tell me where if he worked at area 52 so
[02:03:44] it's probably tonopah
[02:03:46] it's very separated even on base but
[02:03:48] yeah so
[02:03:49] there was that yeah there is your
[02:03:52] education record that was also like what
[02:03:55] happened with that
[02:03:57] well that disappeared also you know that
[02:04:00] i i've i've never gone
[02:04:02] i've never gone anywhere for education
[02:04:05] i've never gone i never attended any
[02:04:07] classes at caltech i never attended
[02:04:09] anything at mit
[02:04:11] you did attend classes in those places i
[02:04:14] did attend classes in those places do
[02:04:15] you know anybody that you went to school
[02:04:17] with
[02:04:18] yes i do and have they verified that
[02:04:20] they went to school with you well i gave
[02:04:21] jeremy some names but people yeah i the
[02:04:24] reason i don't say these names publicly
[02:04:27] is because every single time i mention a
[02:04:30] name somebody gets injured they don't
[02:04:32] want to be of course yeah yeah of course
[02:04:36] um but what what is that experience like
[02:04:38] seeing your birth certificate erased
[02:04:41] seeing your employment well it's
[02:04:43] frightening it's it's absolutely
[02:04:45] frightening it's also the fuel that the
[02:04:46] debunkers use the so-called air quote
[02:04:49] skeptics i don't like the term skeptics
[02:04:51] i'm going to say this publicly because i
[02:04:53] really only said this privately i think
[02:04:54] it's a sloppy lazy way to look at things
[02:04:57] to just be a skeptic
[02:05:00] i want people to be objective
[02:05:02] and i think there's a lot of things you
[02:05:04] should be skeptical of i think you
[02:05:07] should you should look at things and
[02:05:09] look at things
[02:05:11] from a hard-line science perspective you
[02:05:13] should be subjective but the idea of
[02:05:15] skeptics the problem with that is you're
[02:05:17] always looking for things to be [ __ ]
[02:05:19] yeah and i think that's dangerous
[02:05:20] because i think some things aren't
[02:05:22] [ __ ] it's confirmation bias on the
[02:05:23] other end you're just deciding to take a
[02:05:25] square thing and put it around hold no
[02:05:26] matter what and i find a lot of them to
[02:05:29] be lazy
[02:05:30] a lot of them to be lazy thinkers sure
[02:05:32] because they're always putting it into
[02:05:33] that box instead of going hmm
[02:05:36] instead of just separating their ego
[02:05:38] they're trying they're playing a game
[02:05:40] and the game is calling [ __ ] i want
[02:05:42] to call [ __ ] and i'm gonna line up
[02:05:44] all these reasons why it's [ __ ] and
[02:05:45] i'm gonna ignore anything that might be
[02:05:47] contrary to that definition yeah
[02:05:50] every time i'm thinking i'm going to
[02:05:51] catch him in something you know all
[02:05:52] along this process um i found dr krangle
[02:05:55] he came forward and said i was in
[02:05:56] security briefings with bob lazar the
[02:05:58] physicist at los angeles he went on the
[02:06:00] record with me now the other people i
[02:06:02] talked with why won't they go on the
[02:06:03] record with me because they're still
[02:06:05] working there
[02:06:07] so that that's the difference right what
[02:06:08] is that what can the public have right
[02:06:10] or even if they're not working there
[02:06:11] that you know they want to live their
[02:06:12] lives why i mean obviously people have
[02:06:14] seen what's happened to you mike thigpen
[02:06:17] after 30 years yeah really if you look
[02:06:20] at all the information on
[02:06:23] you know concerning my accounts that's
[02:06:25] that's verifiable
[02:06:27] it can't possibly be a [ __ ] story
[02:06:30] anymore it's really way past that point
[02:06:32] yeah i mean that was my big pin is i
[02:06:35] mean how could i possibly know
[02:06:38] uh so mike fig pin
[02:06:40] was the guy that did the security
[02:06:42] clearances to go to the bait one of the
[02:06:44] guys that was this is the guy that you
[02:06:46] worked with he said he did
[02:06:48] right and and george knapp you know
[02:06:50] george didn't believe him george put him
[02:06:52] through four polygraph tests right he
[02:06:54] tried to see man this is a big risk it
[02:06:56] sounds interesting but let's see if he's
[02:06:58] telling the truth one of the things was
[02:07:01] bob said there's a guy named mike
[02:07:02] thigpen he did security clearances for
[02:07:04] the base and that's a weird name it's
[02:07:06] very specific
[02:07:07] for 30 years george
[02:07:10] found this guy in this weird department
[02:07:12] that he didn't even know it was my big
[02:07:13] pin the guy wouldn't talk to me ghosted
[02:07:15] him totally ghosting for 30 years used
[02:07:17] facebook and google image match through
[02:07:19] his children i was able to find him
[02:07:21] after 30 years and i talked to him three
[02:07:23] times on the phone he lives on the east
[02:07:25] coast he almost went on camera with me
[02:07:28] confirmed that he did security
[02:07:29] clearances for the base in 1989
[02:07:31] confirmed he remembers bob lazar and
[02:07:34] what you don't know is there's a
[02:07:35] handwritten note that a friend of yours
[02:07:37] has from mike what i know i'm gonna give
[02:07:40] it to you later i don't but that is real
[02:07:42] that is actual so a handwritten note
[02:07:43] that says what you know like this is new
[02:07:45] to me so when the i
[02:07:47] when you're
[02:07:50] when they do security client clearances
[02:07:52] they go through all your friends and
[02:07:53] they go to your friend's phone yeah yeah
[02:07:55] so this is too bob and
[02:07:57] i had people come to me for a friend of
[02:07:59] mine that's serving and they're doing
[02:08:00] the security clearance for him and even
[02:08:02] though i'm like the ufo guy
[02:08:04] they did you know the fbi come and visit
[02:08:06] my house and make sure that they talk
[02:08:08] about my friend and they lift a little
[02:08:09] card and when my wife told him to get
[02:08:11] away because he didn't know who they
[02:08:12] were they left a little card it's super
[02:08:14] cute now back then it was a handwritten
[02:08:16] note and his friend has it for him that
[02:08:18] you haven't seen in oh my god two
[02:08:21] decades
[02:08:22] so if you're listening
[02:08:24] you're telling me what it is
[02:08:25] what is this card
[02:08:27] it's just a little handwritten note with
[02:08:28] mike thigpen's signature card like like
[02:08:31] a like a postcard
[02:08:32] like a piece of paper that he left on
[02:08:34] the door saying when bob gets back or
[02:08:36] whatever it says on it so it's just
[02:08:38] another little funny thing i found the
[02:08:40] guy he does the security clearances he
[02:08:42] admitted to me he did it and he admitted
[02:08:43] to me he was dodging george knapp
[02:08:45] because when george said his name on the
[02:08:46] writ on the on the news he dropped his
[02:08:49] fork into his steak or into his potatoes
[02:08:51] or whatever and he's looking at his wife
[02:08:53] he was in trouble his name's never
[02:08:54] supposed to be out there like it's just
[02:08:56] a security clearance guy but you don't
[02:08:57] want national attention associated with
[02:09:00] anything bob has to say but anyway this
[02:09:02] unique name bob said for 30 years and
[02:09:05] the guy ghosted george knapp george
[02:09:06] could prove he existed he actually
[02:09:08] talked to me man he talked to me three
[02:09:10] times he almost went on camera with me
[02:09:12] it's just crazy what what do you what
[02:09:14] happens after 30 years you just get more
[02:09:16] info well that's one of the reasons why
[02:09:18] when you and me and jeremy and george
[02:09:22] knapp had that conversation on the phone
[02:09:24] yeah i said i think
[02:09:26] what we can do
[02:09:28] with this podcast
[02:09:30] is important i really do i think it's
[02:09:33] important for people to hear this
[02:09:35] from you in a very clear
[02:09:39] just very concise way
[02:09:43] and if you examine all the information
[02:09:46] that you've said today if you you look
[02:09:48] at all the things that the detractors
[02:09:49] have said if you look at all of the new
[02:09:52] recent evidence that's coming out and
[02:09:54] all these
[02:09:56] really high-level people in the military
[02:09:58] and the government that are discussing
[02:10:00] this
[02:10:01] it gives you
[02:10:03] far more credibility than you would have
[02:10:06] had in the 19 years when this came out
[02:10:09] [ __ ] yes you can't ignore his story just
[02:10:12] because you don't like it anymore that's
[02:10:13] why i thought it was important that you
[02:10:15] come out and refresh the world's memory
[02:10:17] and let people know and like i said i've
[02:10:19] been i mean i want to say i'm a fan of
[02:10:21] yours but i guess i'm a fan of yours as
[02:10:23] a human being i'm a fan of yours but
[02:10:25] i've been following you for decades i've
[02:10:27] been following the story for decades i
[02:10:28] mean i'm kidding i have vhs tapes bob
[02:10:31] like a lot of the world has yeah it's
[02:10:33] crazy well anybody that has any sort of
[02:10:36] uh a vested interest or a just a even uh
[02:10:40] just a fascination with ufos has
[02:10:43] followed your story because there's no
[02:10:46] one else there's no one else that comes
[02:10:48] for this some guy who said i worked
[02:10:50] underground with the aliens they shot my
[02:10:52] hand off like there's a bunch of wacky
[02:10:53] dudes
[02:10:54] they're underground there's bases
[02:10:55] they're shooting lasers through the
[02:10:56] earth's crust and they move them at
[02:10:58] light speed there's a lot of those guys
[02:11:00] they seem schizophrenic they seem crazy
[02:11:02] they might even be disinformation agents
[02:11:04] they might be people that are designed
[02:11:06] to muddy the waters which for sure has
[02:11:09] happened people are coming forward
[02:11:10] though now it's amazing by doing this
[02:11:12] what you're doing you're providing an
[02:11:13] opportunity for bob to tell a story you
[02:11:16] know believe it or not he can tell a
[02:11:18] story it's amazing because more people
[02:11:20] will come forward now
[02:11:22] that are involved with these projects
[02:11:24] they'll come forward to you to me
[02:11:26] they're coming forward and so what
[02:11:27] you've done here is provide that
[02:11:28] opportunity if they need it and it's
[02:11:30] amazing i just want to say bob just
[02:11:32] don't come forward no don't come forward
[02:11:34] to bob
[02:11:36] why were you freaking nauseous at the
[02:11:39] beginning of this like so
[02:11:41] upset why was your why'd you have a
[02:11:43] migraine because that started off so
[02:11:44] hard my god i was sitting here like did
[02:11:45] this why are you asking him why because
[02:11:47] obviously anxiety the guy's gone through
[02:11:49] 30 [ __ ] years of being persecuted i
[02:11:51] just want to erase his birth certificate
[02:11:53] i just want to hear what you hear from i
[02:11:54] want to hear him say i want them why did
[02:11:56] i have to say that you don't just set it
[02:11:58] up get it i step out okay settle down
[02:12:02] yeah well i get it you were it was hard
[02:12:04] for you to get them here you know and i
[02:12:06] was for us yeah you you don't you do
[02:12:09] what really annoys me are the people
[02:12:11] that think you know you guys just came
[02:12:13] up with the story to make a bunch of
[02:12:14] money or get a bunch of you know
[02:12:16] attention and that's a good point so
[02:12:17] please explain that first of all i don't
[02:12:19] get any money out of this at all and i
[02:12:21] may i didn't even let you guys buy plane
[02:12:24] tickets for me to come out here or
[02:12:25] anything i mean
[02:12:27] any time like when jeremy
[02:12:30] uh pre-previewed i guess the movie up in
[02:12:33] michigan
[02:12:34] i mean they it brought in like a couple
[02:12:36] thousand dollars i made sure that two
[02:12:38] thousand dollars went to science
[02:12:40] programs at the local high schools there
[02:12:42] dirty money i don't want to touch it i
[02:12:44] don't take any money from this stuff and
[02:12:46] as far as attention
[02:12:48] i hate [ __ ] attention i don't like
[02:12:51] being on shows i just want to kind of
[02:12:54] hide in the corner and do my own thing
[02:12:55] so that's i got enough hugs when i was a
[02:12:57] kid okay i don't need any attention so
[02:13:01] now that if if you if you think somehow
[02:13:04] we came up with this thing then you got
[02:13:06] to tell me why we did it well you've
[02:13:08] done a great job of
[02:13:10] making sure you have your bases covered
[02:13:11] in that regard that you haven't profited
[02:13:13] off of this and like you said that you
[02:13:14] have donated whatever money that came
[02:13:16] your way to science programs it's i mean
[02:13:18] it it doesn't make any sense
[02:13:21] any other way
[02:13:23] i mean what you're what i've gotten out
[02:13:25] of here is what i thought i was going to
[02:13:27] get out of here when i watched the
[02:13:28] documentary that you what you're saying
[02:13:30] makes sense it doesn't make sense that
[02:13:32] it's [ __ ] that happened exactly like
[02:13:35] i said it did joe i believe you
[02:13:37] um in closing is there anything else
[02:13:40] you'd like to say
[02:13:42] no i can't think of anything other than
[02:13:44] really don't come and try to visit me
[02:13:47] [Laughter]
[02:13:48] well um i know that you have paid a huge
[02:13:52] personal cost to get this information
[02:13:54] out and i mean maybe you didn't
[02:13:56] understand what that cost would have
[02:13:57] been when you first initially came
[02:13:59] forward with the story but over the past
[02:14:01] 30 years it's been immense it's been
[02:14:04] great and i just want to thank you for
[02:14:05] that and thank you for all these people
[02:14:08] that would not have gotten this
[02:14:09] information and would not have really
[02:14:11] had this story any other way
[02:14:13] oh thanks joe thank you
[02:14:15] and thank you jeremy and one more time
[02:14:17] the documentary is available on netflix
[02:14:18] right now yeah it's called bob lazar
[02:14:21] area 51 and flying saucers all right
[02:14:24] that's it folks good night
[02:14:26] [Music]
[02:14:33] [Applause]
[02:14:40] [Music]