WEBVTT

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Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out.

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>> The Joe Rogan Experience.

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>> TRAIN BY DAY. JOE ROGAN PODCAST BY

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NIGHT. All day.

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>> That's wild. I went in [music] cuz I

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came in from I am I think I was living

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at the time and I went in and uh and uh

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I'm sitting in the waiting room and it

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was like on a Sunday because it was I

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was like I'm only in town for and Stan

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was like I'll come into the office. I'm

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like thank you so much. I had to have

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some a filling or whatever I

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[clears throat] needed. It's a kind of

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an emergency. So, I'm sitting in the

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thing and uh and I'm not getting called

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in, but the the the lad just No, no,

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there's not even a receptionist. And

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Stan comes out with his mask on. No, the

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first thing I hear is PIG

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PIG [laughter] AND

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I'm like, what is happening in there?

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It's in the other room. And Stan comes

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in with his mask on. He goes, he goes,

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sorry. He goes, I'll be with you soon.

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He goes, I got Hunter in the chair. And

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he goes [laughter] back and I hear

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listen to to Hunter Thompson swear for

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like 15 minutes. I'm like, "This is

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amazing." And then Stan goes, "Okay,

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come on back." And Hunter's kind of

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getting out and he goes, "Oh, you're

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sitting down with this guy. He's a

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assassin." [laughter]

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And then he goes and he's got this jug

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of clear uh of clear fluid and he's

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like, "You're going to need a sip of

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this." And I'm like, "Oh my god, this is

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Hunter S. Thompson's moonshot."

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[laughter] I'm like, "This is ethyl

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alcohol." Like this is amazing.

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I'm talking to this dude for 30 seconds

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and I'm getting a sip and like

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[laughter] and it was like 10:00 in the

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morning on a Sunday.

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>> Yeah.

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>> He was halfway through the drug

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like where was this

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>> in Beverly Hills? [laughter] Yeah. Yeah.

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>> Yeah. Brentwood. Yeah. Brentwood was

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stand office. Yeah.

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>> Oh my god. That's amazing. It was it

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really was amaz It was it was and I so I

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had probably a total of seven minutes,

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you know, with him and it was like I I I

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it could I could not have been a better

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seven minutes.

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>> That's incredible. I went to the Woody

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Creek Tavern just to go there cuz I know

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he used to go there and like you could

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like feel him in the building. You know,

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there's all the pictures in the walls.

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It's cool little place.

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>> I mean those books Hell's Angels

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and and you know, Fear and Loathing is

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some of the best writing. I I just

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like he really had his own

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voice. Rum Diary was spectacular, you

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know? It was like really descriptive and

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punchy and interesting and

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up. And he also just lived that

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life. It was like

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>> Fear and Loathing changed my life. Like

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reading that book was like, "What the

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fuck?" Like, "What is this guy doing?

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[laughter]

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Grown men out there balding grown men

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with spectacles running around.

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>> I think there's lizards in the

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[laughter] lounge. Like, you guys are

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loosening." And he's got a day trip bag

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filled with acid. Like, what the

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are you doing, man? That was [snorts]

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and it's great It's like you're

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you feel like you're on the

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adventure with him, you know?

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>> Yeah. No, it's a it's it's interesting

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to watch the the evolution of his

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writing too, you know? Like I read

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Hell's Angels and it's like very

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different, you know, but it's

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>> and that's early when he's kind of

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restrained and it was quite like for

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that I think it was edgy sort of for the

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time, you know, like oh you're going to

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get beat and chain whipped and stomped

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by the angels and that was really edgy

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and by the time they got to what was

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fairly 72 or something like that,

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>> you know, he was just

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>> Yeah, he was there. He found his voice.

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>> He did find [laughter] he was supposed

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to be covering a race for like Sports

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Illustrated. [laughter]

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>> That's where Fear and Loathing came

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from. But I lost my mind.

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[laughter]

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>> Great. It's great, Hunter.

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>> We'll take it.

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>> Well, hey, it's very nice to meet you

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guys. I've met you before, but very nice

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to meet, man. Thank you very much. I

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love the movie. The rip is

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great. It's really good. It's so

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original and it's so it's so different

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and it's, you know, it's like I love

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those kind of movies, but it's not like

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any one that I've ever seen before.

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Really solid movie.

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>> Thanks, dude. Thank you.

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>> It was awesome. so [clears throat] much

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better than you hating it and having

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[laughter]

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the interviews where they're like, "So,

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I saw the movie anyway. How you guys

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been?"

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>> We've had we've had a lot of those the

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junk the press junkets where they come

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in and the first thing that you know the

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movie sucks if if they don't ask you

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anything about the movie, they come in,

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they go, "So, how you been?"

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>> You know, and you're like, "Oh

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this is going to be bad."

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>> Is it weird like the the transformation

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of the film industry seems to like a lot

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of it is moving towards these big

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streaming movies now?

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>> Absolutely. I mean, look, it's because

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where most people have gone to watch

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them, right? Like,

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>> used to be the only place you go see

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movies in the 40s. Like, every American

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went to the movie every week basically.

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But it was because it was that or watch

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the cows walk by. You know, that was the

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only and then TV comes around. It's

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little and you see these little cals.

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But you know what happened was now this

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is why this totally changed the whole

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thing because you got 300 million people

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330 whatever it is watching you know

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Netflix and it's a lot harder to get

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people to go into the movies. There's

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also YouTube. There's also Tik Tok.

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There's also my kids like it's hard to

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get them excited about a movie. Yeah.

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That's what we had. I mean

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>> Yeah. That was our I mean our teen years

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were just every weekend we're at the

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movies.

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>> Yeah.

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>> Um there's just no question about it.

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that you were going to go and usually

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not get into one cuz there were too many

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people and then you just see what else

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is playing and go to that.

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>> Well, it seems like it was kind of

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slipping away because so many people

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were watching streaming already and then

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CO came around and everyone was locked

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down and no one was going to the movie

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theater and then it just set it.

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>> I had this like drama that was coming

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out like right when CO hit. I really

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like the movie performance movie. It's

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an alcoholic guy whose kid guys kid dies

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and becomes an alcoholic. It's dark

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movie but I I loved it and I could tell

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like we're No one's going to go

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to see the theater, see this movie. And

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it wasn't even that streaming streaming

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really blew up, you know, of course

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during co. So, you know, look, they

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rushed it onto streaming. People

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actually saw it. I was like, look, all

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things being equal, I'd like people to

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see it, you know, and it's not like my

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dad had an 11in black and white TV and

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that's what was TV viewing now. It's

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like $200, you got a 65 in flat

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screen like and good sound. So, of

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course, people are willing to and then

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streamers also started making great

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shows. You have adolescence. I don't

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know if you saw. I think that's one of

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the best things ever done.

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>> I haven't seen out of unbelievable.

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>> What is it?

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>> Oh my god. It's a It's a It's I I don't

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want to spoil too much of it. It's only

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four episodes.

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>> They're all one shot.

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>> They're all one shot. Each episode is

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one entire shot.

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>> Whoa.

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>> So, the cast they took, I think, I

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talked to the director about it. The

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cast took I think a week to rehearse

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each one and then a week to shoot it.

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And so, so they they do it twice a day.

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It's the full hour. They would

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choreograph the entire thing. Yeah.

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That's really

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>> And then the acting is great.

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>> But that's that I mean just dismiss that

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even you could even call it a gimmick.

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It's not in this case. But um the

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performances and the writing and what

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it's about it's it's as good as anything

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you'll see. It's it's phenomenal.

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>> What is it on?

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>> Netflix.

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>> Netflix. Yeah.

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>> You know, you have like it's not this is

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not even an anomaly. There's Baby

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Rangers. There's Succession.

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There's Game of Thrones, Ozarks. You

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know, it's just like, okay, well,

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they're doing great out there. It's

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not like the sort of implied thing

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before was like, yeah, well, TV's not as

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good. We're not as interesting. It's a

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serious

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>> When we started, it was a there was a

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different I I mean, like George Clooney,

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for instance, like there was a big

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thing, you know, he very famously, you

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know, became this superstar on ER. That

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show, 40 million people a week were

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watching that show. It was the biggest

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thing, right? Because [snorts] there

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were only a few channels to tune into,

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and that show was the biggest one. and

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and George never renegotiated his

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contract. He wanted to work in movies

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and it was like you can't go from TV to

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movie. It's very hard. Very few people

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can do it

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>> and he really strategically and kind of

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patiently like he joked that on the last

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episode he was on Anthony Edwards, you

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know, his co-star was making a million

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bucks for the episode and he was making,

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you know, 20 grand or whatever his deal

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was. Like he could have renegotiated but

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he would have had to give more years.

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>> That's how bad he wanted to get off TV

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and do movies. That's how bad he wanted

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to get off of the biggest TV show in the

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world. Um because the there was such a

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big kind of level change between

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features and and TV.

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>> Well, it was a giant difference in

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quality. It was also this the breaking

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it up for commercials, right?

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>> It was just a different experience.

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>> It couldn't be, you know, there was all

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these rules like you can't say this, you

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can't do that, you can't swear of

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violence and n all the things people

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want to see in movies, you know, and

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then

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>> and also it wasn't it wasn't as

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interesting. And then now that's like

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tethered to these schedules and all this

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stuff or you get this like you

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don't have a schedule and and you can

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take a bunch of risks. So and that

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started happening and then it was kind

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of like well this all is just as good if

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not better than what's in the movies and

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>> well then movies started to move towards

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more IP and

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>> because it was hard to get people come

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to the movies. everyone got scared and

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thought, well, you have it there has to

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be a sequel or a superhero movie.

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>> And so an interesting little movie kind

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of in the '9s when we kind of came onto

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the scene, you know, there were a lot of

00:08:39.200 --> 00:08:42.479
really good independent movies that were

00:08:40.799 --> 00:08:44.559
being made. There was there was, you

00:08:42.479 --> 00:08:46.639
know, it was a really great time to be

00:08:44.559 --> 00:08:48.879
making movie. People were they were

00:08:46.639 --> 00:08:51.360
making daring movies and and and then

00:08:48.879 --> 00:08:53.919
everyone just got way more conservative

00:08:51.360 --> 00:08:55.919
because it's huge. Like the business is

00:08:53.919 --> 00:08:58.159
so different theatrically and streaming

00:08:55.919 --> 00:08:59.759
because to put out a movie theatrically,

00:08:58.159 --> 00:09:02.000
you have to put so much more money

00:08:59.759 --> 00:09:03.200
behind it to publicize. Like you're

00:09:02.000 --> 00:09:04.480
trying to get everybody

00:09:03.200 --> 00:09:06.320
>> spending about what the budget was to

00:09:04.480 --> 00:09:07.759
make it to advertise it because you got

00:09:06.320 --> 00:09:08.800
50% of the theatrical.

00:09:07.759 --> 00:09:10.480
>> Yeah. Because you split it with the the

00:09:08.799 --> 00:09:11.919
the movie house, right? The exhibit.

00:09:10.480 --> 00:09:14.399
>> So $25 million movie to break in. You

00:09:11.919 --> 00:09:16.079
got to make $100 million. And so and and

00:09:14.399 --> 00:09:18.000
you got to get everybody to not only

00:09:16.080 --> 00:09:20.639
know about the movie but to show up like

00:09:18.000 --> 00:09:22.399
that Friday night like that specific

00:09:20.639 --> 00:09:23.919
time, you know, for that specific movie.

00:09:22.399 --> 00:09:26.000
And so did and to cut through all the

00:09:23.919 --> 00:09:26.958
noise that you people are contending

00:09:26.000 --> 00:09:28.320
with. And you know,

00:09:26.958 --> 00:09:29.278
>> so it just becomes about risk and nobody

00:09:28.320 --> 00:09:30.720
wants to take the risk. So they don't

00:09:29.278 --> 00:09:31.838
want to make something new because it's

00:09:30.720 --> 00:09:34.560
such an investment. We're going to lose

00:09:31.839 --> 00:09:36.160
all our money. And the streamers

00:09:34.559 --> 00:09:37.119
stepped into that and like no, you know,

00:09:36.159 --> 00:09:38.399
you didn't have to necessarily have a

00:09:37.120 --> 00:09:40.000
star. You could try something more

00:09:38.399 --> 00:09:42.399
interesting or didn't have to be a

00:09:40.000 --> 00:09:44.240
superhero movie, whatever it was. And

00:09:42.399 --> 00:09:47.200
also, I think it's like, you know,

00:09:44.240 --> 00:09:48.560
frankly, like people my age, like it's

00:09:47.200 --> 00:09:50.000
first of all, it's expensive, right? You

00:09:48.559 --> 00:09:51.439
take your whole family, it's $100.

00:09:50.000 --> 00:09:52.879
You're on a streaming service, $20 a

00:09:51.440 --> 00:09:55.120
month. You can watch all you want. So,

00:09:52.879 --> 00:09:56.159
you can't be cavalier about like you're

00:09:55.120 --> 00:09:58.240
just going to price it however the

00:09:56.159 --> 00:10:00.480
you want and expect everyone to like be

00:09:58.240 --> 00:10:02.000
indifferent to that. And then, you know,

00:10:00.480 --> 00:10:04.159
also,

00:10:02.000 --> 00:10:05.440
you know, the idea of like for me, you

00:10:04.159 --> 00:10:07.120
know, there's a lot of stuff I make that

00:10:05.440 --> 00:10:09.279
decision like, do I want to see the

00:10:07.120 --> 00:10:10.959
Odyssey on on a big screen? def.

00:10:09.278 --> 00:10:12.480
I went to a theater to just watch the

00:10:10.958 --> 00:10:13.838
trailer for that movie and you know did

00:10:12.480 --> 00:10:15.519
I at one battle after another I wanted

00:10:13.839 --> 00:10:16.640
to go see in the theater but there's

00:10:15.519 --> 00:10:18.879
movies with people that I really like

00:10:16.639 --> 00:10:20.480
and respect where yeah and I got a good

00:10:18.879 --> 00:10:22.000
system and but I'm like look I'll

00:10:20.480 --> 00:10:23.440
watch and I might get tired or I won't

00:10:22.000 --> 00:10:25.039
pause it and take a piss or the kids you

00:10:23.440 --> 00:10:27.200
know whatever it is

00:10:25.039 --> 00:10:29.439
>> that's conducive to my lifestyle you

00:10:27.200 --> 00:10:30.399
know and so and most I see few I think

00:10:29.440 --> 00:10:32.160
most people are yeah

00:10:30.399 --> 00:10:33.679
>> but there is the experience of seeing it

00:10:32.159 --> 00:10:34.958
with a bunch of other people see an

00:10:33.679 --> 00:10:36.479
awesome movie with a bunch of other

00:10:34.958 --> 00:10:39.359
people it's like a shared experience

00:10:36.480 --> 00:10:41.120
>> 100% I I always like

00:10:39.360 --> 00:10:43.600
way more attent like like when I went to

00:10:41.120 --> 00:10:45.278
see one battle on IMAX like you know

00:10:43.600 --> 00:10:46.879
that feeling there's nothing like that

00:10:45.278 --> 00:10:49.120
feeling I took you know two of my kids

00:10:46.879 --> 00:10:51.360
and two of my nephews and my wife and we

00:10:49.120 --> 00:10:53.919
all went and it was just it was like and

00:10:51.360 --> 00:10:55.680
you're in with you know a bunch of

00:10:53.919 --> 00:10:56.958
strangers but people in your community

00:10:55.679 --> 00:10:58.639
and you're having this experience

00:10:56.958 --> 00:11:00.879
together. I always say it's more like

00:10:58.639 --> 00:11:02.639
going to going to church like you show

00:11:00.879 --> 00:11:04.639
up at an appointed time you you know

00:11:02.639 --> 00:11:08.078
what I mean? doesn't,

00:11:04.639 --> 00:11:09.360
you know, the the experience of watching

00:11:08.078 --> 00:11:10.958
at home. I think,

00:11:09.360 --> 00:11:12.720
>> you know, you're watching in a room, the

00:11:10.958 --> 00:11:13.919
lights are on, other shit's going on,

00:11:12.720 --> 00:11:15.120
the kids are running around, the dogs

00:11:13.919 --> 00:11:16.399
are running around, whatever it is. You

00:11:15.120 --> 00:11:18.959
know what I mean? It's just a very

00:11:16.399 --> 00:11:20.799
different level of attention that you're

00:11:18.958 --> 00:11:22.958
willing to or that you're able to give

00:11:20.799 --> 00:11:24.559
to it. And that has a big effect. And it

00:11:22.958 --> 00:11:27.199
also ends up having an effect or is

00:11:24.559 --> 00:11:30.239
starting to have an effect on how you

00:11:27.200 --> 00:11:32.640
make movies. Like for instance, Netflix

00:11:30.240 --> 00:11:34.720
um you know standard way to make an

00:11:32.639 --> 00:11:36.480
action movie that we learned was you

00:11:34.720 --> 00:11:38.240
know you usually have like three set

00:11:36.480 --> 00:11:39.920
pieces. One in the first act, one in the

00:11:38.240 --> 00:11:41.440
second, one in the third and you know

00:11:39.919 --> 00:11:42.958
you kind they kind of ramp up and the

00:11:41.440 --> 00:11:44.320
big one with all the explosions and you

00:11:42.958 --> 00:11:45.518
spend most of your money on that one in

00:11:44.320 --> 00:11:48.160
the third act. That's your kind of

00:11:45.519 --> 00:11:50.240
finale. Um and now they're, you know,

00:11:48.159 --> 00:11:51.838
they're like can we get a big one in the

00:11:50.240 --> 00:11:53.278
first five minutes to get somebody, you

00:11:51.839 --> 00:11:56.079
know, we want people to stay

00:11:53.278 --> 00:11:58.000
>> Yeah. tuned in and and can and you know

00:11:56.078 --> 00:12:00.000
it wouldn't be terrible if you

00:11:58.000 --> 00:12:02.000
reiterated the plot three or four times

00:12:00.000 --> 00:12:03.139
in the dialogue because people are on

00:12:02.000 --> 00:12:03.679
their phones while they're watching.

00:12:03.139 --> 00:12:04.799
[laughter]

00:12:03.679 --> 00:12:06.239
You know what I mean?

00:12:04.799 --> 00:12:09.679
>> And so then it's going to really start

00:12:06.240 --> 00:12:10.959
to infringe on how we're telling

00:12:09.679 --> 00:12:11.679
>> but then you look at adolescence who

00:12:10.958 --> 00:12:13.278
didn't do any of that. It

00:12:11.679 --> 00:12:14.719
>> didn't do any of that great. You

00:12:13.278 --> 00:12:17.679
know what I mean? So I think it's and

00:12:14.720 --> 00:12:20.160
it's dark too. It's tragic and intense.

00:12:17.679 --> 00:12:23.120
this like guy who's finds out these kids

00:12:20.159 --> 00:12:25.278
accused of murder and it's like you know

00:12:23.120 --> 00:12:26.639
and and there's long shots in the back

00:12:25.278 --> 00:12:28.559
of their head. They get in the car,

00:12:26.639 --> 00:12:31.839
nobody says anything. I think there are

00:12:28.559 --> 00:12:34.567
those look the these were feels more

00:12:31.839 --> 00:12:36.320
like the exception. It's so masterfully

00:12:34.567 --> 00:12:37.838
[snorts] made that it feels a little

00:12:36.320 --> 00:12:39.519
more like the except I hope it's not. My

00:12:37.839 --> 00:12:40.800
feeling is just that it demonstrates

00:12:39.519 --> 00:12:42.240
that you don't need to do any of that

00:12:40.799 --> 00:12:42.958
to get people, you know what I

00:12:42.240 --> 00:12:44.879
mean? Like,

00:12:42.958 --> 00:12:46.239
>> and I think, you know, yes, you know,

00:12:44.879 --> 00:12:47.600
like, look, hey, the town had the action

00:12:46.240 --> 00:12:49.200
thing in the beginning, the first five

00:12:47.600 --> 00:12:50.879
minutes cuz, you know what I mean? Like,

00:12:49.200 --> 00:12:52.879
it's a it's a common trick that you

00:12:50.879 --> 00:12:54.320
would go like, let me grab them and get

00:12:52.879 --> 00:12:55.838
him invested in the it's like the movies

00:12:54.320 --> 00:12:57.600
that start with the hero hanging from

00:12:55.839 --> 00:12:58.959
the cliff and now we're going to flash

00:12:57.600 --> 00:13:02.320
back to the beginning and tell you how

00:12:58.958 --> 00:13:04.078
they got there. Um it's it you know I

00:13:02.320 --> 00:13:05.120
always feel like uh you know complaining

00:13:04.078 --> 00:13:06.958
about it makes me feel like one of these

00:13:05.120 --> 00:13:08.639
guys was like when I was a boy like you

00:13:06.958 --> 00:13:10.719
always want to freeze the culture at the

00:13:08.639 --> 00:13:12.000
time when you I don't know felt more

00:13:10.720 --> 00:13:13.920
like you know we used to have these

00:13:12.000 --> 00:13:15.440
phones the are all these phone and

00:13:13.919 --> 00:13:18.479
everybody's looking at their I get it

00:13:15.440 --> 00:13:19.440
yes it's true also it's like supply and

00:13:18.480 --> 00:13:20.879
demand people want to look at their

00:13:19.440 --> 00:13:22.320
phone they can look at TikTok they want

00:13:20.879 --> 00:13:24.639
you know they're going to do that I

00:13:22.320 --> 00:13:27.760
think what you can do is make the

00:13:24.639 --> 00:13:29.278
best you can make it really good and you

00:13:27.759 --> 00:13:30.720
know people can still go to the movies

00:13:29.278 --> 00:13:32.159
it's not I think we have this idea of

00:13:30.720 --> 00:13:33.440
that's like an existential threat.

00:13:32.159 --> 00:13:36.078
Everything that comes along is going to

00:13:33.440 --> 00:13:37.680
destroy everything instead of like

00:13:36.078 --> 00:13:39.199
>> what history suggests is that there's

00:13:37.679 --> 00:13:41.359
like marginal encroachments. Things

00:13:39.200 --> 00:13:43.040
shift. Yep. As television came along,

00:13:41.360 --> 00:13:44.079
there was less theater going and that's

00:13:43.039 --> 00:13:45.039
still going to happen. And people are

00:13:44.078 --> 00:13:46.719
still going to go to the movies because

00:13:45.039 --> 00:13:48.399
of what you said. Like it feels like a

00:13:46.720 --> 00:13:50.560
cool thing to do. I'm going to go see

00:13:48.399 --> 00:13:52.799
The Odyssey. I guarantee you in a

00:13:50.559 --> 00:13:54.719
theater, you know, no matter what fewer

00:13:52.799 --> 00:13:56.639
of them, you could argue that's because

00:13:54.720 --> 00:13:58.720
I have more choice or whatever it is.

00:13:56.639 --> 00:14:00.320
It's hard to fight supply and demand.

00:13:58.720 --> 00:14:01.839
That's the trick, right? If people want

00:14:00.320 --> 00:14:04.240
to watch a bunch of stuff at home

00:14:01.839 --> 00:14:06.800
because they invested in TVs and cost us

00:14:04.240 --> 00:14:10.079
money, they will. So, okay. But the

00:14:06.799 --> 00:14:11.599
upside of that is like I can try to do

00:14:10.078 --> 00:14:14.078
something hopefully that's like that

00:14:11.600 --> 00:14:16.480
actually doesn't need to, you know, have

00:14:14.078 --> 00:14:18.239
the most urgency to get you to come to

00:14:16.480 --> 00:14:19.519
the theater with your family. That's a

00:14:18.240 --> 00:14:20.879
little more experimental or risk-taking

00:14:19.519 --> 00:14:22.480
or whatever in that way.

00:14:20.879 --> 00:14:23.759
>> Well, you got to adapt. I mean, there's

00:14:22.480 --> 00:14:25.839
no way you're going to change people's

00:14:23.759 --> 00:14:27.360
viewing habits now. Yeah. I mean, what

00:14:25.839 --> 00:14:29.680
percentage of Netflix is actually

00:14:27.360 --> 00:14:31.360
watched on phones has got to be pretty

00:14:29.679 --> 00:14:32.239
high, which is insane.

00:14:31.360 --> 00:14:34.079
>> Yeah.

00:14:32.240 --> 00:14:36.079
>> Even watching on a laptop for me is kind

00:14:34.078 --> 00:14:36.879
of like kind of sucks. You know,

00:14:36.078 --> 00:14:38.399
>> it sucks.

00:14:36.879 --> 00:14:39.919
>> That's a joke that I [clears throat]

00:14:38.399 --> 00:14:41.519
like to make with every director I work

00:14:39.919 --> 00:14:43.198
with. Like when they're really puzzling

00:14:41.519 --> 00:14:44.320
over a shot or really grinding out

00:14:43.198 --> 00:14:46.224
something, I go, you know, it's not

00:14:44.320 --> 00:14:46.800
going to look as good on the phone when

00:14:46.225 --> 00:14:49.680
[laughter]

00:14:46.799 --> 00:14:51.039
they just everyone gets angry.

00:14:49.679 --> 00:14:52.239
>> Takes the weight out of their

00:14:51.039 --> 00:14:54.000
sales, you [laughter] know? No, that's

00:14:52.240 --> 00:14:55.198
going to look great this bigs.

00:14:54.000 --> 00:14:56.399
But keep around and lighting

00:14:55.198 --> 00:14:58.240
that wall.

00:14:56.399 --> 00:14:59.759
>> It is weird though the the concern for

00:14:58.240 --> 00:15:01.600
the algorithm like making sure that

00:14:59.759 --> 00:15:03.198
people watch like look we've got data

00:15:01.600 --> 00:15:04.800
that shows within the first five minutes

00:15:03.198 --> 00:15:06.799
when this happens they tune out. So

00:15:04.799 --> 00:15:08.399
let's like my buddy Tony Hinchcliffe you

00:15:06.799 --> 00:15:10.000
know he's got Kill Tony and now it's on

00:15:08.399 --> 00:15:12.639
Netflix and so they're giving him notes

00:15:10.000 --> 00:15:13.679
now and they can give him like but

00:15:12.639 --> 00:15:14.799
they're not telling him what to do but

00:15:13.679 --> 00:15:17.198
they're saying like this is when people

00:15:14.799 --> 00:15:19.120
are tuning out and so let's you know

00:15:17.198 --> 00:15:21.679
just so you have that data now decide

00:15:19.120 --> 00:15:26.560
how you want to edit things. It's like,

00:15:21.679 --> 00:15:30.879
>> yeah, it is because because the

00:15:26.559 --> 00:15:32.958
>> it's like the the bar for for

00:15:30.879 --> 00:15:34.480
walking out of a movie theater is a lot

00:15:32.958 --> 00:15:35.439
higher than from just changing the

00:15:34.480 --> 00:15:38.240
channel. Right.

00:15:35.440 --> 00:15:39.920
>> Right. And often times, you know, you

00:15:38.240 --> 00:15:42.399
directors will want to make a movie that

00:15:39.919 --> 00:15:44.240
is challenging and upsetting. And I

00:15:42.399 --> 00:15:46.399
remember Terry Kenny, my my friend,

00:15:44.240 --> 00:15:48.399
great actor, and he he told me about the

00:15:46.399 --> 00:15:51.440
experience of seeing Taxi Driver in New

00:15:48.399 --> 00:15:54.000
York for the first time, right, in 76 or

00:15:51.440 --> 00:15:56.240
whenever it came out. And he said, "What

00:15:54.000 --> 00:15:58.399
I remember is not only the movie, but I

00:15:56.240 --> 00:16:00.639
remember standing at the back because I

00:15:58.399 --> 00:16:02.399
had got up. I got up out of my seat and

00:16:00.639 --> 00:16:04.159
I went, but I couldn't bring myself to

00:16:02.399 --> 00:16:06.078
leave because I was so invested, but I

00:16:04.159 --> 00:16:07.600
was so he was standing at the back by

00:16:06.078 --> 00:16:09.039
the door watching the movie." And he

00:16:07.600 --> 00:16:10.879
goes, "And there were two other people

00:16:09.039 --> 00:16:11.759
standing next to me who were doing the

00:16:10.879 --> 00:16:12.879
same thing

00:16:11.759 --> 00:16:14.560
>> just cuz they were disturbed

00:16:12.879 --> 00:16:15.439
>> because the movie was disturbing them so

00:16:14.559 --> 00:16:17.518
much." Wow.

00:16:15.440 --> 00:16:19.680
>> Which is not a bad thing, right? So had

00:16:17.519 --> 00:16:20.720
that been on on Netflix or Amazon, you

00:16:19.679 --> 00:16:22.000
know, if somebody say, "Oh, I'm

00:16:20.720 --> 00:16:22.959
disturbed." And they turn and they

00:16:22.000 --> 00:16:23.519
change the channel.

00:16:22.958 --> 00:16:24.719
>> Yeah.

00:16:23.519 --> 00:16:25.839
>> Like that doesn't mean you shouldn't

00:16:24.720 --> 00:16:27.600
make Taxi Driver,

00:16:25.839 --> 00:16:30.079
>> right? That's true. Like the investment

00:16:27.600 --> 00:16:31.360
of going to a place is much greater.

00:16:30.078 --> 00:16:32.958
>> Yeah. And one of the values of that is

00:16:31.360 --> 00:16:35.120
that you could you look at movies from

00:16:32.958 --> 00:16:36.479
the 70s, the first act was 25, 30

00:16:35.120 --> 00:16:38.959
minutes, right? You know, the verdict

00:16:36.480 --> 00:16:39.360
for a great movie takes a long time to

00:16:38.958 --> 00:16:41.518
get

00:16:39.360 --> 00:16:42.879
>> the deer hunter. Yeah. I mean, that's

00:16:41.519 --> 00:16:44.639
>> and and you're right, like what you're

00:16:42.879 --> 00:16:46.399
saying, the threshold for walk out is

00:16:44.639 --> 00:16:48.000
really like any scene like, ah, I want

00:16:46.399 --> 00:16:50.078
to watch Naked Alone, like whatever, you

00:16:48.000 --> 00:16:52.958
know, you flip the So, you're

00:16:50.078 --> 00:16:55.039
you are battling that. And you know,

00:16:52.958 --> 00:16:57.278
>> I watched Lemon's the other night, Steve

00:16:55.039 --> 00:16:59.198
McQueen, and there's no one talks for

00:16:57.278 --> 00:17:00.958
like five minutes. There's no talking.

00:16:59.198 --> 00:17:02.639
It's just a bunch of stuff getting done,

00:17:00.958 --> 00:17:04.639
just a bunch of people doing things. And

00:17:02.639 --> 00:17:06.640
it's like, wow, you could make a diff.

00:17:04.640 --> 00:17:06.880
You could let it air out back then.

00:17:06.640 --> 00:17:09.360
Yeah.

00:17:06.880 --> 00:17:11.360
>> It was they had a different respect for

00:17:09.359 --> 00:17:13.038
what it was. Like you were telling a

00:17:11.359 --> 00:17:13.359
story and you're going to let it air

00:17:13.038 --> 00:17:14.640
out.

00:17:13.359 --> 00:17:16.399
>> Well, they also knew where their

00:17:14.640 --> 00:17:17.038
audience was. They were in a theater

00:17:16.400 --> 00:17:18.000
that they

00:17:17.038 --> 00:17:19.359
>> part of it was they wanted to come

00:17:18.000 --> 00:17:20.806
there. I mean, this great story I like

00:17:19.359 --> 00:17:23.038
is the first time they they

00:17:20.806 --> 00:17:25.120
[clears throat] debuted a movie guys

00:17:23.038 --> 00:17:27.919
with a with a projector in a room full

00:17:25.119 --> 00:17:30.000
of people. It was a it was a movie of a

00:17:27.919 --> 00:17:30.960
train pulling into the station. So they

00:17:30.000 --> 00:17:32.880
put the reel up and they did the

00:17:30.960 --> 00:17:34.160
demonstration and they showed the people

00:17:32.880 --> 00:17:35.200
and everybody missed it because they

00:17:34.160 --> 00:17:36.798
were turned around staring at the

00:17:35.200 --> 00:17:38.640
projector. They never [laughter]

00:17:36.798 --> 00:17:40.960
seen anything like that, you know? So

00:17:38.640 --> 00:17:42.799
it's like the techn is upstaging but

00:17:40.960 --> 00:17:43.840
like you come for an event, come for a

00:17:42.798 --> 00:17:45.679
thing, we're all going to be here.

00:17:43.839 --> 00:17:47.918
That's part of it.

00:17:45.679 --> 00:17:49.679
>> It's um I don't know. There's competing

00:17:47.919 --> 00:17:50.960
arguments. So you can think, well, what

00:17:49.679 --> 00:17:52.480
do you get to do? And some people just

00:17:50.960 --> 00:17:54.319
go ahead and it. Like Jim Cameron's

00:17:52.480 --> 00:17:56.079
Avatar, I'm going to make my three-hour

00:17:54.319 --> 00:17:57.279
movie and people are going to come and

00:17:56.079 --> 00:17:58.399
great. You know what I And people say,

00:17:57.279 --> 00:18:00.160
"Oh, well, you can't have a three-hour

00:17:58.400 --> 00:18:01.600
movie." And he's like, "Well, I'm Jim

00:18:00.160 --> 00:18:03.679
Cameron and I've actually got the number

00:18:01.599 --> 00:18:05.279
one and two and, you know, movies. I I

00:18:03.679 --> 00:18:07.038
think I got this." He goes ahead and

00:18:05.279 --> 00:18:08.639
does it. You know, this history is full

00:18:07.038 --> 00:18:09.679
of people who got told a bunch of

00:18:08.640 --> 00:18:11.120
conventional wisdom and we're like,

00:18:09.679 --> 00:18:13.600
"Yeah, but we're going to do something

00:18:11.119 --> 00:18:15.119
different." And it, as it turns out,

00:18:13.599 --> 00:18:16.639
>> like that's actually what people want,

00:18:15.119 --> 00:18:18.239
too, is not for you to just repeat the

00:18:16.640 --> 00:18:19.600
other that's been done before and

00:18:18.240 --> 00:18:20.798
that worked before.

00:18:19.599 --> 00:18:23.678
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One of the things I read that I thought

00:19:11.919 --> 00:19:16.559
was really cool is you guys set

00:19:13.759 --> 00:19:20.480
it up so that if this film performs

00:19:16.558 --> 00:19:20.798
well, the entire crew gets bonuses.

00:19:20.480 --> 00:19:22.319
Yeah,

00:19:20.798 --> 00:19:24.603
>> that's awesome.

00:19:22.319 --> 00:19:25.519
>> Yeah, hopefully it's successful.

00:19:24.603 --> 00:19:26.798
[laughter]

00:19:25.519 --> 00:19:28.960
>> I think you're going to get a house

00:19:26.798 --> 00:19:29.519
if it doesn't great movie, man. It's a

00:19:28.960 --> 00:19:31.200
fun movie,

00:19:29.519 --> 00:19:33.440
>> but it's it's it's good, but it's not

00:19:31.200 --> 00:19:34.798
like, you know, we're saints or

00:19:33.440 --> 00:19:37.038
philanthropists. Like, it's completely

00:19:34.798 --> 00:19:39.359
self- serving in my opinion because in

00:19:37.038 --> 00:19:40.960
order to do the job well, everybody

00:19:39.359 --> 00:19:42.558
who's working on it has to be really

00:19:40.960 --> 00:19:44.798
invested and give a about the

00:19:42.558 --> 00:19:46.240
result, not their paycheck only. And

00:19:44.798 --> 00:19:48.400
sometimes you worry the crew that just

00:19:46.240 --> 00:19:49.839
happen to be great anyway even though

00:19:48.400 --> 00:19:52.480
they don't really have to care about it

00:19:49.839 --> 00:19:54.399
and they do. And what we saw was like

00:19:52.480 --> 00:19:55.599
that makes your movie better. And then

00:19:54.400 --> 00:19:57.120
there's just the thing of like the

00:19:55.599 --> 00:19:59.199
business is changing. You see these

00:19:57.119 --> 00:20:01.839
strikes and work stop all these

00:19:59.200 --> 00:20:04.880
questions in order for this I think to

00:20:01.839 --> 00:20:07.678
to survive and to be you know a good

00:20:04.880 --> 00:20:10.960
middle class art artist you know

00:20:07.679 --> 00:20:12.720
artisal craftsman job. We got 1,200

00:20:10.960 --> 00:20:14.960
people that, you know, need to have

00:20:12.720 --> 00:20:16.880
reliable jobs. And part of the

00:20:14.960 --> 00:20:18.558
negotiations is always like, yeah, yeah,

00:20:16.880 --> 00:20:20.080
yeah, but we're all going to get

00:20:18.558 --> 00:20:21.279
Like, we have no participation. Like,

00:20:20.079 --> 00:20:23.599
used to working on movies, and it

00:20:21.279 --> 00:20:25.119
happens to actors, too, where you go,

00:20:23.599 --> 00:20:26.719
oh, we all invested. It was really hard

00:20:25.119 --> 00:20:29.038
and we put in the extra effort.

00:20:26.720 --> 00:20:30.319
Somebody else walked away with all the

00:20:29.038 --> 00:20:32.400
success

00:20:30.319 --> 00:20:34.158
>> and you, you know, my theory was was

00:20:32.400 --> 00:20:35.919
with Matt was we were like, how about

00:20:34.159 --> 00:20:37.520
where let's say, okay, it's just

00:20:35.919 --> 00:20:39.759
fairness, right? this thing actually

00:20:37.519 --> 00:20:41.679
blows up and does really well, you

00:20:39.759 --> 00:20:43.359
should benefit from that. People have

00:20:41.679 --> 00:20:45.280
been, you know, kind of given sort of

00:20:43.359 --> 00:20:47.359
promises of of participation back and

00:20:45.279 --> 00:20:48.879
that haven't come true. This is like the

00:20:47.359 --> 00:20:50.959
crew. Everyone got their rates, everyone

00:20:48.880 --> 00:20:52.640
got their hourly, no one cut anything.

00:20:50.960 --> 00:20:54.798
This is just an exercise and actually

00:20:52.640 --> 00:20:57.038
proving that it's not that if

00:20:54.798 --> 00:20:58.639
there's success, you'll get some extra

00:20:57.038 --> 00:20:59.679
little success, a little extra, a little

00:20:58.640 --> 00:21:00.960
more, a little more.

00:20:59.679 --> 00:21:02.240
>> But also, like you said, because it's

00:21:00.960 --> 00:21:05.038
fair, you know, and and [clears throat]

00:21:02.240 --> 00:21:07.038
and in success, the people who made the

00:21:05.038 --> 00:21:09.359
movie should you know, should

00:21:07.038 --> 00:21:10.960
participate in that. And and also with

00:21:09.359 --> 00:21:12.319
this one, which was important to us,

00:21:10.960 --> 00:21:13.759
there's, you know, they they delineate

00:21:12.319 --> 00:21:15.439
above the line and below the line,

00:21:13.759 --> 00:21:18.158
right? Like above the line being like

00:21:15.440 --> 00:21:20.159
us, the director and the producers,

00:21:18.159 --> 00:21:22.320
>> um, and below the line being kind of the

00:21:20.159 --> 00:21:23.120
more bluecollar side of our industry and

00:21:22.319 --> 00:21:25.200
and

00:21:23.119 --> 00:21:26.719
>> like painters, grainsmen, camera,

00:21:25.200 --> 00:21:29.440
everybody else, drivers,

00:21:26.720 --> 00:21:31.038
>> and so we just wanted we we and believe

00:21:29.440 --> 00:21:33.038
like when we started this company, we

00:21:31.038 --> 00:21:35.359
were like, look, you know, we know who

00:21:33.038 --> 00:21:37.279
makes our movie better, right? It's not

00:21:35.359 --> 00:21:39.038
it's it's like they've this has kind of

00:21:37.279 --> 00:21:40.879
been mispriced the whole time. Like the

00:21:39.038 --> 00:21:42.558
economics have been wrong. Like when

00:21:40.880 --> 00:21:44.320
there's a when there's a big success,

00:21:42.558 --> 00:21:45.599
everybody who had a hand on it

00:21:44.319 --> 00:21:47.200
>> because you see a great director that

00:21:45.599 --> 00:21:48.639
people rely on or an actor that's

00:21:47.200 --> 00:21:50.080
considered bankable, they're all going,

00:21:48.640 --> 00:21:51.520
"Okay, I need all my people with."

00:21:50.079 --> 00:21:52.558
>> Yeah. Every great director I've worked

00:21:51.519 --> 00:21:54.639
with, and I've worked with a lot of

00:21:52.558 --> 00:21:57.038
them, they have their regular crew

00:21:54.640 --> 00:21:58.799
members that they that are ride or die

00:21:57.038 --> 00:22:00.079
with these people because I mean, and

00:21:58.798 --> 00:22:01.519
you said it to me when we were starting

00:22:00.079 --> 00:22:03.279
the company, you were like,

00:22:01.519 --> 00:22:05.119
>> you know, those department heads, you

00:22:03.279 --> 00:22:06.558
know, who are each handling like, you

00:22:05.119 --> 00:22:07.678
know, cinemat, you know, your camera

00:22:06.558 --> 00:22:09.038
department, you know, your grip

00:22:07.679 --> 00:22:12.798
department, your electric, like all

00:22:09.038 --> 00:22:14.240
these this those people are

00:22:12.798 --> 00:22:16.400
ultimately the people who make the movie

00:22:14.240 --> 00:22:17.599
good. Like they make a demonstrable

00:22:16.400 --> 00:22:18.640
difference in how good your movie is.

00:22:17.599 --> 00:22:21.038
And imagine once [clears throat] you get

00:22:18.640 --> 00:22:22.720
a good flow with a great crew, like you

00:22:21.038 --> 00:22:24.000
got the band. Yeah. Like there's no need

00:22:22.720 --> 00:22:24.960
to bring in new band members. Let's

00:22:24.000 --> 00:22:27.038
let's do this again.

00:22:24.960 --> 00:22:29.038
>> Yeah. And because then and then like you

00:22:27.038 --> 00:22:30.558
have the situation where they all are

00:22:29.038 --> 00:22:32.720
filmmakers too. Everybody knows what

00:22:30.558 --> 00:22:34.480
we're trying to do. So like then what

00:22:32.720 --> 00:22:35.360
makes it, you know, you're trying to get

00:22:34.480 --> 00:22:37.038
something special, something

00:22:35.359 --> 00:22:39.199
interesting, something magical

00:22:37.038 --> 00:22:40.640
in some moment. You have to like if

00:22:39.200 --> 00:22:42.480
people are tight or they've been out of

00:22:40.640 --> 00:22:43.759
shape or, you know, up the

00:22:42.480 --> 00:22:45.679
environment, people aren't relaxed,

00:22:43.759 --> 00:22:47.119
actors can't do their best work. And

00:22:45.679 --> 00:22:49.840
that does make a difference between

00:22:47.119 --> 00:22:52.000
something that's good, average, great,

00:22:49.839 --> 00:22:54.558
whatever. And I think that if you say

00:22:52.000 --> 00:22:56.240
like, you know, it makes cognitive sense

00:22:54.558 --> 00:22:58.319
to people, but if you look around like

00:22:56.240 --> 00:22:59.919
what's Colin Anderson, camera operator,

00:22:58.319 --> 00:23:01.359
right? Not the cinematographer,

00:22:59.919 --> 00:23:02.640
>> but I would tell you he's the I think

00:23:01.359 --> 00:23:04.079
he's the greatest camera operator there

00:23:02.640 --> 00:23:06.080
is in Hollywood. If you want evidence

00:23:04.079 --> 00:23:07.599
that he shot Marty Supreme, he was a

00:23:06.079 --> 00:23:09.439
camera opera in one battle after

00:23:07.599 --> 00:23:11.119
another. You know, he's you look at his

00:23:09.440 --> 00:23:13.120
resume and you're like, "Oh, that's

00:23:11.119 --> 00:23:14.639
interesting. These are all great

00:23:13.119 --> 00:23:16.000
movies." Now, is he personally

00:23:14.640 --> 00:23:18.080
responsible for all of it? No, because

00:23:16.000 --> 00:23:19.440
it's a collaborative medium. There is no

00:23:18.079 --> 00:23:20.720
like you can be a painter and paint by

00:23:19.440 --> 00:23:23.919
yourself. You can be a novelist and do

00:23:20.720 --> 00:23:25.919
that, sing, write music. You can't do

00:23:23.919 --> 00:23:28.080
this job alone. Like there are a lot of

00:23:25.919 --> 00:23:29.919
people that go into it. You know, even

00:23:28.079 --> 00:23:32.000
my real like Matt was the lead in the

00:23:29.919 --> 00:23:35.360
last movie I did air that I directed.

00:23:32.000 --> 00:23:38.558
Having somebody so good in your

00:23:35.359 --> 00:23:40.479
movie who also shows up, does his job,

00:23:38.558 --> 00:23:42.639
is friendly, isn't around or

00:23:40.480 --> 00:23:45.120
playing games or being weird like that

00:23:42.640 --> 00:23:48.000
sets this tone. Everybody else kind of

00:23:45.119 --> 00:23:49.839
goes, "Okay, what's Damon like?" Oh, I

00:23:48.000 --> 00:23:51.279
see this. We're taking it seriously, but

00:23:49.839 --> 00:23:52.399
nobody's going to be a dick. We're all

00:23:51.279 --> 00:23:54.240
going to do our job. We're not going to

00:23:52.400 --> 00:23:56.480
take ourselves too seriously, but we're

00:23:54.240 --> 00:23:58.240
gonna take the job really seriously.

00:23:56.480 --> 00:24:00.798
Immediately, everybody kind of snaps

00:23:58.240 --> 00:24:02.960
into that. That trickle down effect goes

00:24:00.798 --> 00:24:04.400
across the whole thing. And the I think

00:24:02.960 --> 00:24:06.240
the the best thing that I know how to do

00:24:04.400 --> 00:24:08.640
as a director is just create an

00:24:06.240 --> 00:24:10.558
environment where people feel like they

00:24:08.640 --> 00:24:12.400
show up, people like me, they're rooting

00:24:10.558 --> 00:24:14.000
for me. I can embarrass myself

00:24:12.400 --> 00:24:15.440
and be bad and it's not going to be in

00:24:14.000 --> 00:24:16.640
the movie and no one's going to make me

00:24:15.440 --> 00:24:18.080
feel self-conscious and

00:24:16.640 --> 00:24:19.520
>> I'm listened to my ideas.

00:24:18.079 --> 00:24:20.558
>> Yeah. And if I have something to offer,

00:24:19.519 --> 00:24:22.960
they're going to go, "Oh, that's a good

00:24:20.558 --> 00:24:25.038
idea." You know what I mean? And that

00:24:22.960 --> 00:24:26.319
that's kind of the trick to in my view.

00:24:25.038 --> 00:24:28.240
And then you're depending on the gifts

00:24:26.319 --> 00:24:30.158
of all these people. Every single one of

00:24:28.240 --> 00:24:33.038
them, you know, guys was, you know, some

00:24:30.159 --> 00:24:34.960
woman's assistant uh propm is coming up

00:24:33.038 --> 00:24:36.720
with like the stuff that, you know, Phil

00:24:34.960 --> 00:24:38.400
Knight found, you know, his waffle and

00:24:36.720 --> 00:24:40.000
the shoe, they found it on eBay, like

00:24:38.400 --> 00:24:41.759
that's an extra mile. You know what I

00:24:40.000 --> 00:24:43.440
mean? And if you make people feel like

00:24:41.759 --> 00:24:45.200
it matters and you give a and that

00:24:43.440 --> 00:24:46.640
they're contributing and oh cool, let's

00:24:45.200 --> 00:24:47.840
do a close-up of that. That's really

00:24:46.640 --> 00:24:49.679
cool.

00:24:47.839 --> 00:24:51.839
>> They'll die for you. They'll go all the

00:24:49.679 --> 00:24:53.759
way and it changes the whole

00:24:51.839 --> 00:24:54.879
>> if you bonus them.

00:24:53.759 --> 00:24:56.400
>> Yeah. [laughter] doesn't hurt either.

00:24:54.880 --> 00:24:58.559
>> You know, it's not just all, you know,

00:24:56.400 --> 00:25:01.360
it's it's not just there's an actual

00:24:58.558 --> 00:25:03.038
like codified bonus structure to say

00:25:01.359 --> 00:25:04.319
like we

00:25:03.038 --> 00:25:05.599
>> this is a way of recognizing that

00:25:04.319 --> 00:25:07.599
right? It's like in your paycheck, too.

00:25:05.599 --> 00:25:09.599
It's not just real and you guys develop

00:25:07.599 --> 00:25:10.959
this. Is this so something that you

00:25:09.599 --> 00:25:13.278
like? Kudos to you guys for addressing

00:25:10.960 --> 00:25:14.640
this first of all and recognizing it and

00:25:13.278 --> 00:25:17.038
having that attitude because it's so

00:25:14.640 --> 00:25:18.640
important and it's so easy for big movie

00:25:17.038 --> 00:25:19.038
stars to just think about themselves and

00:25:18.640 --> 00:25:20.880
their own.

00:25:19.038 --> 00:25:24.278
>> We're communists, Joe. [laughter]

00:25:20.880 --> 00:25:24.278
>> We're from Cambridge.

00:25:24.880 --> 00:25:29.840
keep the car running. [laughter]

00:25:26.798 --> 00:25:31.918
>> No, no, but uh but but each each deal

00:25:29.839 --> 00:25:33.199
has had this kind of each deal that

00:25:31.919 --> 00:25:34.720
we've done so far has been different

00:25:33.200 --> 00:25:37.200
because we've made deals with, you know,

00:25:34.720 --> 00:25:37.919
different studios and platforms and

00:25:37.200 --> 00:25:39.519
stuff like that. And

00:25:37.919 --> 00:25:41.840
>> it just involved us basically

00:25:39.519 --> 00:25:43.519
retroactively going, "Hey, we came in

00:25:41.839 --> 00:25:45.278
under we did a great job. There's extra

00:25:43.519 --> 00:25:46.639
money. Here you go." Mhm.

00:25:45.278 --> 00:25:49.519
>> This is the first time that we were able

00:25:46.640 --> 00:25:51.278
to to actually create like a schedule

00:25:49.519 --> 00:25:52.158
where it's like because and by the way,

00:25:51.278 --> 00:25:53.919
we wouldn't have been able to do that

00:25:52.159 --> 00:25:55.360
without Netflix going, "Okay, cool. You

00:25:53.919 --> 00:25:56.880
think you can make this work? Is this

00:25:55.359 --> 00:25:58.000
we'll give you a shot. Otherwise, we

00:25:56.880 --> 00:25:59.200
wouldn't have been able to do it." So,

00:25:58.000 --> 00:26:01.200
we had to say, "Look, we're not asking

00:25:59.200 --> 00:26:02.798
you to take a cut, but you know, if if

00:26:01.200 --> 00:26:05.120
we we can and we can tell you if the

00:26:02.798 --> 00:26:07.519
movie is watched as many hours in the

00:26:05.119 --> 00:26:10.239
first 90 days as like this movie a that

00:26:07.519 --> 00:26:12.720
you all know what it is, then that's you

00:26:10.240 --> 00:26:14.159
know 20% of your let's say, right? You

00:26:12.720 --> 00:26:15.759
should take a hit." So it's like, yeah,

00:26:14.159 --> 00:26:17.840
you make more money, your bonus is more.

00:26:15.759 --> 00:26:19.359
It's all just pegged to where you're at

00:26:17.839 --> 00:26:20.158
just because that was the most fair idea

00:26:19.359 --> 00:26:21.599
we'd come up with.

00:26:20.159 --> 00:26:24.400
>> So they gave us like five different

00:26:21.599 --> 00:26:26.240
levels, right? Like the first couple we

00:26:24.400 --> 00:26:27.759
hopefully we can hit and maybe the third

00:26:26.240 --> 00:26:28.240
maybe we get and then it got to like the

00:26:27.759 --> 00:26:29.440
fifth one

00:26:28.240 --> 00:26:29.839
>> kind of like single double triple home

00:26:29.440 --> 00:26:31.679
run

00:26:29.839 --> 00:26:35.038
>> home run grand slam. The fifth

00:26:31.679 --> 00:26:36.159
one was was 110% of all Netflix viewers

00:26:35.038 --> 00:26:37.759
or something like that. So it's

00:26:36.159 --> 00:26:39.278
everybody who has a Netflix account

00:26:37.759 --> 00:26:41.440
watches it and then like 10% of them

00:26:39.278 --> 00:26:42.960
watch it again. And we were like K-pop

00:26:41.440 --> 00:26:44.320
demon this is the biggest but that's

00:26:42.960 --> 00:26:46.000
what happened. We were laughing and then

00:26:44.319 --> 00:26:47.359
K-pop Demon Hunters came along and

00:26:46.000 --> 00:26:48.480
actually did that. That's the first

00:26:47.359 --> 00:26:49.119
movie that's ever

00:26:48.480 --> 00:26:49.759
>> Jesus.

00:26:49.119 --> 00:26:51.199
>> Yeah.

00:26:49.759 --> 00:26:52.640
>> Well, I think a lot of autistic kids

00:26:51.200 --> 00:26:54.000
watch that over and over and over.

00:26:52.640 --> 00:26:55.520
>> I haven't seen I haven't seen [laughter]

00:26:54.000 --> 00:26:56.400
it, but I I mean somebody's watching it

00:26:55.519 --> 00:26:59.038
over and over.

00:26:56.400 --> 00:27:02.000
>> Yeah. So, dude, people love it.

00:26:59.038 --> 00:27:03.519
>> I mean, it's you know the the the value

00:27:02.000 --> 00:27:04.720
of it is that because before this one of

00:27:03.519 --> 00:27:06.400
the big things and everybody's fighting

00:27:04.720 --> 00:27:08.000
over in the strike is like well share

00:27:06.400 --> 00:27:09.840
your ch there used to be residuals,

00:27:08.000 --> 00:27:11.440
right? and residuals and it was only for

00:27:09.839 --> 00:27:13.038
SAG and a few other things but it was

00:27:11.440 --> 00:27:14.880
like and you knew if you had a line in

00:27:13.038 --> 00:27:16.400
the movie and the movie a certain number

00:27:14.880 --> 00:27:19.278
like at the box office well you're going

00:27:16.400 --> 00:27:20.880
to get another 2,000 bucks and that was

00:27:19.278 --> 00:27:22.079
a big deal you get that check in the

00:27:20.880 --> 00:27:23.760
mail and like okay I can pay the rent

00:27:22.079 --> 00:27:25.199
for another month and I can do that

00:27:23.759 --> 00:27:27.599
but then it then there was this like

00:27:25.200 --> 00:27:29.278
sort of illde what constitutes success

00:27:27.599 --> 00:27:31.278
because streamer doesn't actually sell

00:27:29.278 --> 00:27:33.200
another ticket if you watch that movie

00:27:31.278 --> 00:27:35.599
right it's hard to tell well why did you

00:27:33.200 --> 00:27:37.120
sign up for this service right so for a

00:27:35.599 --> 00:27:38.719
while everyone's looking at the first

00:27:37.119 --> 00:27:40.639
thing that you looked that when you

00:27:38.720 --> 00:27:42.240
subscribe to somebody, okay, you going

00:27:40.640 --> 00:27:44.720
to go buy Hulu? What did you watch

00:27:42.240 --> 00:27:46.558
first? The bear. Well, the bear must be

00:27:44.720 --> 00:27:48.798
creating value for us. But it's you

00:27:46.558 --> 00:27:50.879
can't assign a a strict numerical value

00:27:48.798 --> 00:27:52.879
to it because it's unlike a box office

00:27:50.880 --> 00:27:54.399
where you can go, well, you know,

00:27:52.880 --> 00:27:55.919
Oenheimer is a billion dollars or

00:27:54.398 --> 00:27:57.918
whatever and you know that's another

00:27:55.919 --> 00:27:59.520
billion dollars on our balance sheet

00:27:57.919 --> 00:28:01.278
because streamers are doing a

00:27:59.519 --> 00:28:02.960
subscription model, you know,

00:28:01.278 --> 00:28:04.398
>> it's, you know, whether it's like a gym

00:28:02.960 --> 00:28:05.360
membership where in the you

00:28:04.398 --> 00:28:06.479
know, first of the year you're like, I'm

00:28:05.359 --> 00:28:08.398
going to work out again. I'm going to

00:28:06.480 --> 00:28:10.159
buy that annual membership. And you go

00:28:08.398 --> 00:28:11.759
twice or you go to the gym every single

00:28:10.159 --> 00:28:13.440
day, you're paying the same amount.

00:28:11.759 --> 00:28:15.440
>> Also, the weird thing is with streaming,

00:28:13.440 --> 00:28:16.640
when you're opening up Netflix, it's not

00:28:15.440 --> 00:28:18.880
like you're going to the movie theater

00:28:16.640 --> 00:28:20.799
and there's seven movies playing. You're

00:28:18.880 --> 00:28:24.640
opening up Netflix and you have an

00:28:20.798 --> 00:28:26.398
unlimited option list. It's insane how

00:28:24.640 --> 00:28:28.320
much content you could waste the rest of

00:28:26.398 --> 00:28:30.798
your life sitting in front of Netflix

00:28:28.319 --> 00:28:32.798
and then die and have, you know,

00:28:30.798 --> 00:28:34.798
millions of hours more to listen to or

00:28:32.798 --> 00:28:36.398
watch. And you're right, like when we

00:28:34.798 --> 00:28:39.119
started researching that and built our

00:28:36.398 --> 00:28:41.839
own data to poll people and examine all

00:28:39.119 --> 00:28:43.119
this stuff, it's it's actually all the

00:28:41.839 --> 00:28:45.038
library stuff that people are watching

00:28:43.119 --> 00:28:47.119
all the time. if you said like the new

00:28:45.038 --> 00:28:48.960
stuff is theoretically what what keeps

00:28:47.119 --> 00:28:51.359
people with the subscription or whatever

00:28:48.960 --> 00:28:53.440
but in terms of like volume of time I

00:28:51.359 --> 00:28:56.158
think and doesn't come from them but it

00:28:53.440 --> 00:28:57.840
looks a lot like you know going to watch

00:28:56.159 --> 00:28:59.520
like orange and new black and the

00:28:57.839 --> 00:29:02.480
episode of suits and the old Seinfeld

00:28:59.519 --> 00:29:04.639
and Friends and what you know um Cupcake

00:29:02.480 --> 00:29:07.120
Wars or you know that that's what's cuz

00:29:04.640 --> 00:29:07.520
Americans watch six hours of TV a day

00:29:07.119 --> 00:29:09.199
right

00:29:07.519 --> 00:29:10.639
>> that's crazy

00:29:09.200 --> 00:29:12.000
>> and then the other six hours they're on

00:29:10.640 --> 00:29:14.320
their phone how [laughter] does anything

00:29:12.000 --> 00:29:16.240
get done how does anything get done

00:29:14.319 --> 00:29:17.918
>> when you started to make this film like

00:29:16.240 --> 00:29:20.240
what what is the process like how did

00:29:17.919 --> 00:29:22.240
you guys agree on it like what did you

00:29:20.240 --> 00:29:24.240
guys have it written first

00:29:22.240 --> 00:29:25.359
>> was Joe so

00:29:24.240 --> 00:29:26.399
>> before you knew you were going to

00:29:25.359 --> 00:29:28.240
Netflix with it

00:29:26.398 --> 00:29:29.918
>> yeah yeah he came to us with the script

00:29:28.240 --> 00:29:31.759
and we've known Joe for a really he did

00:29:29.919 --> 00:29:33.200
a movie his first movie is called Narc I

00:29:31.759 --> 00:29:33.839
don't know if you ever saw terrific

00:29:33.200 --> 00:29:36.798
great movie

00:29:33.839 --> 00:29:38.879
>> so we met him way back this 25 years ago

00:29:36.798 --> 00:29:41.519
or something like that and so we met him

00:29:38.880 --> 00:29:44.320
met him back then and Ben did a movie of

00:29:41.519 --> 00:29:46.079
his4 four, I think. And so we've known

00:29:44.319 --> 00:29:47.359
Joe for a really long time and kind of

00:29:46.079 --> 00:29:49.199
been in touch with him over the years

00:29:47.359 --> 00:29:50.719
and and he just sent this to us and said

00:29:49.200 --> 00:29:53.840
and we read it and we thought it was

00:29:50.720 --> 00:29:56.079
great and and and and bought it for the

00:29:53.839 --> 00:29:58.000
company and then we started talking to

00:29:56.079 --> 00:29:59.678
Joe about, you know, how he saw, you

00:29:58.000 --> 00:30:02.480
know, how he wanted to do it and and he

00:29:59.679 --> 00:30:04.240
suggested that we actually do the movie.

00:30:02.480 --> 00:30:06.000
Um, and we and we were like, "Yeah, why

00:30:04.240 --> 00:30:07.679
don't we do it? It seems

00:30:06.000 --> 00:30:09.359
>> basically because we liked and part of

00:30:07.679 --> 00:30:12.080
it's like we're not trying to just do

00:30:09.359 --> 00:30:13.359
our movies. We want to be, you know,

00:30:12.079 --> 00:30:15.439
doing movies with all these the people

00:30:13.359 --> 00:30:16.798
that we like and respect and and and

00:30:15.440 --> 00:30:19.759
then, you know, the way we sort of set

00:30:16.798 --> 00:30:22.319
it up is such that to try to get like

00:30:19.759 --> 00:30:24.640
the historically the way it's worked is

00:30:22.319 --> 00:30:26.639
like the, you know, a studio will own a

00:30:24.640 --> 00:30:27.919
an IB or a script or whatever and then

00:30:26.640 --> 00:30:29.360
you cut and they'll say, "Okay, we want

00:30:27.919 --> 00:30:30.480
you to do it." Okay, well, how much?

00:30:29.359 --> 00:30:31.759
Well, how much did you get for the last

00:30:30.480 --> 00:30:33.679
one, right? And you go then what's the

00:30:31.759 --> 00:30:36.480
budget? And then that's how they assign

00:30:33.679 --> 00:30:38.399
a value to it, right? But like my belief

00:30:36.480 --> 00:30:40.079
was well especially when these streamers

00:30:38.398 --> 00:30:42.239
are like coming into the market and and

00:30:40.079 --> 00:30:44.240
chasing stuff is like this movie may may

00:30:42.240 --> 00:30:46.558
be worth more it may be worth less and

00:30:44.240 --> 00:30:48.480
that like we're all just subject to that

00:30:46.558 --> 00:30:51.278
so we'll try to get the best price for

00:30:48.480 --> 00:30:52.720
it and we'll all share it you know prata

00:30:51.278 --> 00:30:54.558
and essentially that that was the same

00:30:52.720 --> 00:30:57.600
process we've done eight I guess movies

00:30:54.558 --> 00:30:59.278
or so now and and uh we took it out and

00:30:57.599 --> 00:31:00.398
you know people wanted it and then one

00:30:59.278 --> 00:31:02.000
of the things that was really appealing

00:31:00.398 --> 00:31:04.798
about Netflix was that they were open to

00:31:02.000 --> 00:31:06.480
this this idea that we've been trying to

00:31:04.798 --> 00:31:08.480
institutionalize and was like, "Okay,

00:31:06.480 --> 00:31:10.399
great. That's that's really meaningful

00:31:08.480 --> 00:31:11.679
because ideally it becomes a template

00:31:10.398 --> 00:31:13.119
that other people go, hey, we want to do

00:31:11.679 --> 00:31:14.000
that thing, you know, and then go, oh,

00:31:13.119 --> 00:31:15.038
here's the paperwork."

00:31:14.000 --> 00:31:17.200
>> Yeah, that's the thing. Like a lot of

00:31:15.038 --> 00:31:20.480
people say that they would want to do

00:31:17.200 --> 00:31:22.558
it, but it now now that template exists.

00:31:20.480 --> 00:31:24.079
So, it's like plugandplay. So, if you if

00:31:22.558 --> 00:31:25.839
you're not full of and you really

00:31:24.079 --> 00:31:26.639
do mean that, then guess what? Just take

00:31:25.839 --> 00:31:28.720
this and

00:31:26.640 --> 00:31:31.120
>> and it also is going to let you, you

00:31:28.720 --> 00:31:32.000
know, I hope like manage the risk. In

00:31:31.119 --> 00:31:33.038
other words, the argument you always

00:31:32.000 --> 00:31:35.038
have is like, well, we got to

00:31:33.038 --> 00:31:37.278
invest all this money in the movie. So,

00:31:35.038 --> 00:31:39.839
you can't have your protagonist be too

00:31:37.278 --> 00:31:42.240
objectionable. That's too edgy or can't

00:31:39.839 --> 00:31:43.519
be R-rated because it costs this. I get

00:31:42.240 --> 00:31:44.880
it right. You're going to put all your

00:31:43.519 --> 00:31:46.319
money into it. You want you don't want

00:31:44.880 --> 00:31:48.399
money to disappear. You want to

00:31:46.319 --> 00:31:50.319
make money. Okay. So, if like when we

00:31:48.398 --> 00:31:51.759
wrote the first movie that Goodwill

00:31:50.319 --> 00:31:53.200
Hunting, it was like we knew that had to

00:31:51.759 --> 00:31:54.480
be a cheap movie. People talking in

00:31:53.200 --> 00:31:55.679
rooms to each other because no one's

00:31:54.480 --> 00:31:56.798
going to put a bunch of money into a

00:31:55.679 --> 00:31:58.480
movie with us.

00:31:56.798 --> 00:32:00.158
>> Two that no one heard of. So,

00:31:58.480 --> 00:32:01.839
it was like, okay, what can we do?

00:32:00.159 --> 00:32:04.320
That's interesting that and try to keep

00:32:01.839 --> 00:32:05.519
it as inexpensive as possible so that we

00:32:04.319 --> 00:32:07.599
can make the argument that someone

00:32:05.519 --> 00:32:09.038
should make the movie. That same logic

00:32:07.599 --> 00:32:10.879
like carries through every time you're

00:32:09.038 --> 00:32:13.119
asking somebody to invest in something.

00:32:10.880 --> 00:32:15.519
So what I'd like to have happen is to

00:32:13.119 --> 00:32:18.079
say, okay, now that we know there's a

00:32:15.519 --> 00:32:20.480
reliable system where we understand that

00:32:18.079 --> 00:32:22.798
like in success will actually benefit,

00:32:20.480 --> 00:32:24.880
we can lower, you know, the price

00:32:22.798 --> 00:32:26.398
upfront for you so that you can have a

00:32:24.880 --> 00:32:27.600
low barrier to entry so that you

00:32:26.398 --> 00:32:28.959
can take the risk so that we can do

00:32:27.599 --> 00:32:31.199
something really interesting. That's

00:32:28.960 --> 00:32:33.120
that's an original idea. That's a you

00:32:31.200 --> 00:32:36.000
know that's an ABM or sinners or

00:32:33.119 --> 00:32:37.759
Marty Supreme or whatever it is and and

00:32:36.000 --> 00:32:39.278
then if it's successful we're not all

00:32:37.759 --> 00:32:40.640
sitting here like where you

00:32:39.278 --> 00:32:42.558
know you guys walk off with all the

00:32:40.640 --> 00:32:44.720
money but and you can have that happen

00:32:42.558 --> 00:32:46.879
in an ongoing way so that you can make

00:32:44.720 --> 00:32:49.038
more interesting stuff. A lot of the

00:32:46.880 --> 00:32:52.000
stuff that was going on with the strikes

00:32:49.038 --> 00:32:54.158
was centered around AI and what AI is

00:32:52.000 --> 00:32:56.480
going to do to the business. like what

00:32:54.159 --> 00:32:58.960
where do you feel is going to be like

00:32:56.480 --> 00:33:00.558
the biggest problem with AI? Is it going

00:32:58.960 --> 00:33:02.240
to be with people's likenesses? Because

00:33:00.558 --> 00:33:04.079
there's a lot of that where they want

00:33:02.240 --> 00:33:05.839
they want to use extras and own their

00:33:04.079 --> 00:33:07.839
digital rights forever essentially be

00:33:05.839 --> 00:33:09.918
able to recreate them in any kind of

00:33:07.839 --> 00:33:12.480
film. But then there's also you're going

00:33:09.919 --> 00:33:14.159
to have films that are written by

00:33:12.480 --> 00:33:17.360
artificial intelligence. You're going to

00:33:14.159 --> 00:33:19.840
have scenes that don't involve people.

00:33:17.359 --> 00:33:21.119
And it gets weird, right?

00:33:19.839 --> 00:33:22.879
>> It gets really weird. But there's

00:33:21.119 --> 00:33:24.319
actually an area for him.

00:33:22.880 --> 00:33:25.919
>> Yeah, we've been spending time looking

00:33:24.319 --> 00:33:26.720
at this. Like my belief is it's sort of

00:33:25.919 --> 00:33:28.000
like what's going to happen with

00:33:26.720 --> 00:33:29.038
electricity.

00:33:28.000 --> 00:33:30.398
>> Well, a lot of shit's going to happen

00:33:29.038 --> 00:33:31.440
with electricity. Some of it's going to

00:33:30.398 --> 00:33:33.119
be good. Some of it's going to change

00:33:31.440 --> 00:33:35.120
stuff. Some of it's going to be like,

00:33:33.119 --> 00:33:36.719
you know, this is going to be, you know,

00:33:35.119 --> 00:33:38.558
that kills a bunch of people. Like,

00:33:36.720 --> 00:33:41.440
it's it's it's opening a door that you

00:33:38.558 --> 00:33:43.278
can't um you know, say, well, talk about

00:33:41.440 --> 00:33:45.840
in a kind of a blanket way. But I think

00:33:43.278 --> 00:33:48.720
with what I see is like for example, if

00:33:45.839 --> 00:33:50.879
you try to get Chat GBT or Claude or

00:33:48.720 --> 00:33:53.519
Gemini to write you something, it's

00:33:50.880 --> 00:33:55.679
really shitty. And it's shitty because

00:33:53.519 --> 00:33:58.480
by its nature, it goes to the mean to

00:33:55.679 --> 00:34:00.559
the average. And it's and it's not

00:33:58.480 --> 00:34:02.558
reliable. And it's I mean, I just can't

00:34:00.558 --> 00:34:04.319
even stand to see what writes. Now, it's

00:34:02.558 --> 00:34:06.240
a useful tool if you're a writer and

00:34:04.319 --> 00:34:08.000
you're going, "Uh, what's the thing? I'm

00:34:06.240 --> 00:34:09.599
trying to set something up or somebody

00:34:08.000 --> 00:34:11.199
sends someone a letter, but it's delayed

00:34:09.599 --> 00:34:13.679
two days and gets and it can give you

00:34:11.199 --> 00:34:16.000
some examples of that. I actually don't

00:34:13.679 --> 00:34:17.440
think it's very likely that it can it's

00:34:16.000 --> 00:34:20.159
going to be able to write anything

00:34:17.440 --> 00:34:22.079
meaningful or and in particular that

00:34:20.159 --> 00:34:23.599
it's going to be making movies like from

00:34:22.079 --> 00:34:24.800
whole cloth like Tilly Nor like that's

00:34:23.599 --> 00:34:26.639
I don't think that's going to

00:34:24.800 --> 00:34:28.320
happen. I think it's not I think it

00:34:26.639 --> 00:34:30.000
actually it turns out the technology is

00:34:28.320 --> 00:34:32.800
not progressing in exactly the same way

00:34:30.000 --> 00:34:34.639
they sort of presented it. Um and really

00:34:32.800 --> 00:34:36.879
what it is is going to be a tool just

00:34:34.639 --> 00:34:38.159
like sort of visual effects and yeah it

00:34:36.878 --> 00:34:39.679
needs to have language around it. You

00:34:38.159 --> 00:34:41.440
need to protect your name and likeness.

00:34:39.679 --> 00:34:43.200
You can do that. You can watermark it.

00:34:41.440 --> 00:34:44.800
You're those laws already exist. You

00:34:43.199 --> 00:34:46.480
can't I can't sell your picture

00:34:44.800 --> 00:34:49.119
for money. I can't. You can sue me.

00:34:46.480 --> 00:34:51.358
Period. I might have the ability to draw

00:34:49.119 --> 00:34:54.399
you to make you in a very realistic way,

00:34:51.358 --> 00:34:55.918
but that's already against the law. And

00:34:54.398 --> 00:34:57.358
the unions are going to I think the

00:34:55.918 --> 00:35:00.159
guilds are going to manage this where

00:34:57.358 --> 00:35:01.440
it's like, okay, look, if this is a tool

00:35:00.159 --> 00:35:02.719
that actually helps us, for example, we

00:35:01.440 --> 00:35:04.720
don't have to go to the North Pole,

00:35:02.719 --> 00:35:07.039
right? We can shoot the scene here in

00:35:04.719 --> 00:35:09.519
our parkas and you know whatever it is

00:35:07.039 --> 00:35:10.800
and but then make it appear very

00:35:09.519 --> 00:35:12.639
realistically as if we're in the North

00:35:10.800 --> 00:35:14.079
Pole. It'll save us a lot of money, a

00:35:12.639 --> 00:35:15.920
lot of time. We're going to focus on the

00:35:14.079 --> 00:35:18.400
performances and not be freezing our ass

00:35:15.920 --> 00:35:20.800
off out there and running back inside.

00:35:18.400 --> 00:35:22.400
That's useful just like Spencer Tracy

00:35:20.800 --> 00:35:23.839
and Katherryn Heburn used to be like

00:35:22.400 --> 00:35:25.519
driving their car and there's a wind

00:35:23.838 --> 00:35:27.119
blowing a painting behind them. and look

00:35:25.519 --> 00:35:28.800
goofy and you [laughter] know now you

00:35:27.119 --> 00:35:30.880
know in computer gener people use a lot

00:35:28.800 --> 00:35:32.480
of computerenerated stuff and some of it

00:35:30.880 --> 00:35:34.880
is going to replace just that like

00:35:32.480 --> 00:35:37.280
instead of uh 500 guys in Singapore you

00:35:34.880 --> 00:35:40.400
know making $2 an hour to to render all

00:35:37.280 --> 00:35:41.920
the graphics for a superhero movie

00:35:40.400 --> 00:35:43.838
there's going to be able to do that a

00:35:41.920 --> 00:35:45.358
lot easier there's already laws around

00:35:43.838 --> 00:35:47.679
and guild guidelines around like how

00:35:45.358 --> 00:35:49.920
many union extras you have to use but

00:35:47.679 --> 00:35:52.319
also we've been tiling extras like there

00:35:49.920 --> 00:35:53.358
weren't a million orcs in Middle Earth

00:35:52.320 --> 00:35:54.800
you know what I mean there aren't

00:35:53.358 --> 00:35:56.480
Invictus there weren't all those people

00:35:54.800 --> 00:35:58.800
in the stadium like that's something

00:35:56.480 --> 00:35:59.838
we've been doing. It kind of feels to me

00:35:58.800 --> 00:36:02.000
like the thing we were talking about

00:35:59.838 --> 00:36:03.279
earlier where there's a lot more fear

00:36:02.000 --> 00:36:04.880
because we have the sense this

00:36:03.280 --> 00:36:06.000
existential dread. It's going to wipe

00:36:04.880 --> 00:36:07.760
everything out.

00:36:06.000 --> 00:36:10.559
>> But that actually runs counter in my

00:36:07.760 --> 00:36:14.079
view to what history seems to show which

00:36:10.559 --> 00:36:16.719
is a adoption is slow. It's incremental.

00:36:14.079 --> 00:36:18.720
>> Um I think a lot of that rhetoric comes

00:36:16.719 --> 00:36:21.279
from people who are trying to justify

00:36:18.719 --> 00:36:22.559
valuations around companies where they

00:36:21.280 --> 00:36:23.599
go we're going to change everything in

00:36:22.559 --> 00:36:25.199
two years. There's going to be no more

00:36:23.599 --> 00:36:27.519
work. Well, the reason they're saying

00:36:25.199 --> 00:36:29.679
that is because they need to ascribe a

00:36:27.519 --> 00:36:31.199
valuation for investment that can

00:36:29.679 --> 00:36:32.639
warrant the capex spend they're going to

00:36:31.199 --> 00:36:35.279
make on these data centers with the

00:36:32.639 --> 00:36:36.639
argument that like oh you know as soon

00:36:35.280 --> 00:36:38.640
as we do the next model it's going to

00:36:36.639 --> 00:36:42.000
scale up can be three times as good

00:36:38.639 --> 00:36:45.199
except that actually chatp5 about 25

00:36:42.000 --> 00:36:47.280
time% better than chatbt4 and costs

00:36:45.199 --> 00:36:49.598
about four times as much in the way of

00:36:47.280 --> 00:36:53.200
electricity and data so when they say

00:36:49.599 --> 00:36:55.599
that's like plateauing the early AI the

00:36:53.199 --> 00:36:57.199
line went up very steeply and it's now

00:36:55.599 --> 00:36:59.359
sort of leveling off. I think it's

00:36:57.199 --> 00:37:01.039
because and yes it'll get better but

00:36:59.358 --> 00:37:02.960
it's going to be really expensive to get

00:37:01.039 --> 00:37:04.960
better and a lot of people are like

00:37:02.960 --> 00:37:07.440
this we want chatb4 because it turned

00:37:04.960 --> 00:37:10.639
out like the vast majority of people who

00:37:07.440 --> 00:37:12.880
use AI are using it to like as like

00:37:10.639 --> 00:37:14.159
companion bots to chat with at night and

00:37:12.880 --> 00:37:16.559
stuff. There's no work, there's no

00:37:14.159 --> 00:37:18.399
productivity, there's no value to it. I

00:37:16.559 --> 00:37:21.199
would argue there's also not a lot of

00:37:18.400 --> 00:37:23.838
social value to getting people to like

00:37:21.199 --> 00:37:25.039
focus on an AI friend who's, you know,

00:37:23.838 --> 00:37:26.480
telling you that you're great and

00:37:25.039 --> 00:37:29.199
listening to everything you say and

00:37:26.480 --> 00:37:31.119
being sick ofantic. But that's sort of a

00:37:29.199 --> 00:37:33.118
side issue. I think for this particular

00:37:31.119 --> 00:37:34.400
purpose, like the way I see the

00:37:33.119 --> 00:37:36.240
technology and what it's good at and

00:37:34.400 --> 00:37:37.680
what it's not, it's going to be good at

00:37:36.239 --> 00:37:39.199
filling in all the places that are

00:37:37.679 --> 00:37:41.519
expensive and burdensome and they make

00:37:39.199 --> 00:37:43.598
it harder to do it and it's always going

00:37:41.519 --> 00:37:46.079
to rely fundamentally on the human

00:37:43.599 --> 00:37:49.039
artistic aspects of it. Well, I think

00:37:46.079 --> 00:37:50.640
the more it becomes ubiquitous, the more

00:37:49.039 --> 00:37:53.039
people are going to appreciate real

00:37:50.639 --> 00:37:54.960
things that are made by real people, you

00:37:53.039 --> 00:37:56.960
know, like you're you still appreciate a

00:37:54.960 --> 00:37:59.679
handmade table, you know? You're you're

00:37:56.960 --> 00:38:01.358
going to appreciate like Did you see um

00:37:59.679 --> 00:38:01.598
uh The Beast in Me, Claire Danes?

00:38:01.358 --> 00:38:02.799
>> Yeah.

00:38:01.599 --> 00:38:03.838
>> No, I didn't. great.

00:38:02.800 --> 00:38:05.680
>> Yeah, I heard it was great.

00:38:03.838 --> 00:38:06.880
>> That lady

00:38:05.679 --> 00:38:08.719
terrific.

00:38:06.880 --> 00:38:10.480
>> When she's in a scene, you're just like

00:38:08.719 --> 00:38:11.838
Jesus Christ. Like great.

00:38:10.480 --> 00:38:13.440
>> Like you like her lips are

00:38:11.838 --> 00:38:14.880
quivering like you believe everything

00:38:13.440 --> 00:38:16.960
that she's saying. But you're right,

00:38:14.880 --> 00:38:18.240
people want that. My kids want

00:38:16.960 --> 00:38:20.385
cassette.

00:38:18.239 --> 00:38:21.919
>> I'll say like I I did this interview

00:38:20.385 --> 00:38:23.440
[clears throat] with uh with Dwayne

00:38:21.920 --> 00:38:25.200
Johnson because they, you know, they

00:38:23.440 --> 00:38:26.639
when people are in these awards things,

00:38:25.199 --> 00:38:28.480
they sometimes have other actors

00:38:26.639 --> 00:38:30.400
interview them, you know. And I did this

00:38:28.480 --> 00:38:31.679
interview with Dwayne and and and I

00:38:30.400 --> 00:38:34.160
asked him, there's this scene in the

00:38:31.679 --> 00:38:35.838
Smashing Machine where where he's

00:38:34.159 --> 00:38:37.279
overdosed on drugs and his buddy comes

00:38:35.838 --> 00:38:37.679
to see him in the hospital.

00:38:37.280 --> 00:38:40.960
>> Yeah.

00:38:37.679 --> 00:38:42.480
>> And and it really walloped me this

00:38:40.960 --> 00:38:44.000
scene. I thought it was so great. And

00:38:42.480 --> 00:38:45.358
and I asked him and I was just like,

00:38:44.000 --> 00:38:47.519
"Can you just tell me about this scene?

00:38:45.358 --> 00:38:49.519
Like, did Benny Benny Safy directed it?

00:38:47.519 --> 00:38:50.719
Did Benny write this write that? Did you

00:38:49.519 --> 00:38:52.480
work on that scene with them? Did you?"

00:38:50.719 --> 00:38:53.919
He goes, "No, we we actually worked on

00:38:52.480 --> 00:38:56.000
it together." And I go, "But how did

00:38:53.920 --> 00:38:58.159
that scene come to be?" And Dwayne goes,

00:38:56.000 --> 00:38:59.358
"Well, my father was an alcoholic." And

00:38:58.159 --> 00:39:01.519
I don't remember if he said substance

00:38:59.358 --> 00:39:02.880
abuse or alcoholic, but I didn't know

00:39:01.519 --> 00:39:04.400
the man. I don't want to impug him, but

00:39:02.880 --> 00:39:06.480
but he had he had a substance issue,

00:39:04.400 --> 00:39:09.358
whatever it was. He goes, "And and when

00:39:06.480 --> 00:39:11.440
he would talk to me, uh, you know,

00:39:09.358 --> 00:39:13.039
that's how he

00:39:11.440 --> 00:39:14.240
would defend himself." It was almost a

00:39:13.039 --> 00:39:16.079
bargaining thing because there's this

00:39:14.239 --> 00:39:18.559
thing when this guy comes to him, he's

00:39:16.079 --> 00:39:20.160
overdosed and Dwayne's amazing in this

00:39:18.559 --> 00:39:21.358
scene. He's he's going like he's going

00:39:20.159 --> 00:39:22.480
like, "Yeah, isn't it crazy?" And then I

00:39:21.358 --> 00:39:23.920
woke up and I mean, I could hear him,

00:39:22.480 --> 00:39:25.920
but I couldn't really hear him. And you

00:39:23.920 --> 00:39:27.519
see him and he's kind of tap dancing and

00:39:25.920 --> 00:39:30.159
his friend finally kind of holds his

00:39:27.519 --> 00:39:33.039
feet to the fire. And at that moment,

00:39:30.159 --> 00:39:34.719
Dwayne literally

00:39:33.039 --> 00:39:37.838
starts to burst into tears and just

00:39:34.719 --> 00:39:40.879
pulls the hospital sheet up over his

00:39:37.838 --> 00:39:43.358
head. And it's like and it's and it's I

00:39:40.880 --> 00:39:44.960
mean it just it was I'm I'm not doing it

00:39:43.358 --> 00:39:46.480
justice if you haven't I mean I know you

00:39:44.960 --> 00:39:50.240
I know you've seen

00:39:46.480 --> 00:39:52.480
>> but um he said yeah. So he explains that

00:39:50.239 --> 00:39:54.639
about his father and then he goes and

00:39:52.480 --> 00:39:56.480
and uh when my mom was diagnosed with

00:39:54.639 --> 00:39:58.078
stage three lung cancer. I was with her

00:39:56.480 --> 00:40:00.320
when the oncologist came in and she was

00:39:58.079 --> 00:40:02.160
lying in the hospital bed and when he

00:40:00.320 --> 00:40:05.119
gave her the news, she pulled the sheet

00:40:02.159 --> 00:40:06.960
up over her head and [snorts] I looked

00:40:05.119 --> 00:40:09.200
at her and she just looked like a little

00:40:06.960 --> 00:40:12.000
like a little kid, you know, and I was

00:40:09.199 --> 00:40:15.598
like, "All right." [snorts] Like, so

00:40:12.000 --> 00:40:18.159
that right is two traumatic events from

00:40:15.599 --> 00:40:19.680
this guy's life, right, from his life

00:40:18.159 --> 00:40:22.799
experience.

00:40:19.679 --> 00:40:24.319
And the actor in him, right, sees this

00:40:22.800 --> 00:40:26.079
scene,

00:40:24.320 --> 00:40:28.400
goes into his

00:40:26.079 --> 00:40:30.000
memory pulls these two things out,

00:40:28.400 --> 00:40:31.358
understands that they're appropriate for

00:40:30.000 --> 00:40:34.000
this scene, and he can marry them

00:40:31.358 --> 00:40:35.972
together in the scene, and then he goes

00:40:34.000 --> 00:40:36.559
and performs it that way. And

00:40:35.972 --> 00:40:39.119
[clears throat]

00:40:36.559 --> 00:40:43.039
a dude walking in off the road, goes to

00:40:39.119 --> 00:40:46.400
the movies, sees this, understands

00:40:43.039 --> 00:40:48.000
somehow that it's real. I I

00:40:46.400 --> 00:40:49.519
didn't know why. I That's why I wanted

00:40:48.000 --> 00:40:54.400
to ask him, how did that scene come to

00:40:49.519 --> 00:40:58.880
be? genuinely didn't know and made me

00:40:54.400 --> 00:41:00.720
tear up and you know like that is

00:40:58.880 --> 00:41:02.559
>> there's no AI that can do that.

00:41:00.719 --> 00:41:04.559
>> No, it's the whole lot more than

00:41:02.559 --> 00:41:06.639
photorealistic images.

00:41:04.559 --> 00:41:08.960
>> Yeah, you you could you could you could

00:41:06.639 --> 00:41:11.039
have an AI understand Dwayne's face and

00:41:08.960 --> 00:41:12.159
move his face into different No

00:41:11.039 --> 00:41:13.519
thing could ever do that.

00:41:12.159 --> 00:41:15.199
>> The complications of real life

00:41:13.519 --> 00:41:17.119
experiences relayed.

00:41:15.199 --> 00:41:18.480
>> That is a completely human That is an

00:41:17.119 --> 00:41:20.640
that is an artist. That's a piece of

00:41:18.480 --> 00:41:21.440
art, right? that comes out of a lived

00:41:20.639 --> 00:41:23.279
human experience.

00:41:21.440 --> 00:41:25.280
>> That movie gave me so much anxiety.

00:41:23.280 --> 00:41:28.079
There's moments where Emily Blunt is

00:41:25.280 --> 00:41:29.839
arguing in that movie. I said I really

00:41:28.079 --> 00:41:31.359
said I I I was like that I think I think

00:41:29.838 --> 00:41:32.559
that's the best she's ever been. I love

00:41:31.358 --> 00:41:33.838
you know we live in the same building in

00:41:32.559 --> 00:41:36.480
New York. She's like very dear friend of

00:41:33.838 --> 00:41:37.679
mine and I and I I I I was like I I

00:41:36.480 --> 00:41:39.199
really think that's the best she's ever

00:41:37.679 --> 00:41:41.358
been. And then I said and then I blurted

00:41:39.199 --> 00:41:43.358
that out to Chris Nolan and and he kind

00:41:41.358 --> 00:41:44.480
of stopped and looked at me like he

00:41:43.358 --> 00:41:46.078
didn't say it but he was kind of like

00:41:44.480 --> 00:41:47.519
she's pretty good in my movie

00:41:46.079 --> 00:41:48.678
too. [laughter]

00:41:47.519 --> 00:41:49.440
>> Well, she's great period.

00:41:48.677 --> 00:41:50.719
[clears throat] She's great period.

00:41:49.440 --> 00:41:52.960
>> She's great period. But there's

00:41:50.719 --> 00:41:56.159
something about that. Well, I knew Mark.

00:41:52.960 --> 00:41:57.920
I I knew Mark from I met Mark in 97 when

00:41:56.159 --> 00:42:00.000
he was fighting in the UFC. So, [cough]

00:41:57.920 --> 00:42:02.800
I knew the whole journey of him. And I

00:42:00.000 --> 00:42:05.280
was so happy for Dwayne because it was a

00:42:02.800 --> 00:42:08.880
film where instead of being this

00:42:05.280 --> 00:42:11.839
superhero blockbuster Hulk of a man, he

00:42:08.880 --> 00:42:14.720
gets to be that, but be an a great

00:42:11.838 --> 00:42:16.480
actor. And you know, you can't really

00:42:14.719 --> 00:42:18.799
get a person

00:42:16.480 --> 00:42:23.760
>> to look like that

00:42:18.800 --> 00:42:26.560
>> to express emotions and and and he was

00:42:23.760 --> 00:42:27.920
Mark Kerr. If you know Mark, I mean, it

00:42:26.559 --> 00:42:29.519
was great actor.

00:42:27.920 --> 00:42:31.119
>> I completely forgot it was him and

00:42:29.519 --> 00:42:32.880
somebody who had seen it before told me

00:42:31.119 --> 00:42:35.039
that was going to happen and I was like,

00:42:32.880 --> 00:42:36.559
"All right, we'll see." Yeah. [laughter]

00:42:35.039 --> 00:42:36.960
And it was like from the second it

00:42:36.559 --> 00:42:38.639
started

00:42:36.960 --> 00:42:39.760
>> it didn't get the credit it deserved in

00:42:38.639 --> 00:42:41.440
terms of like the amount of people that

00:42:39.760 --> 00:42:42.800
went to see it. But I think overall in

00:42:41.440 --> 00:42:45.200
time people appreciated.

00:42:42.800 --> 00:42:45.680
>> Yeah. That's one people go back to and

00:42:45.199 --> 00:42:48.239
talk about

00:42:45.679 --> 00:42:49.679
>> because it's a movie about MMA. So a lot

00:42:48.239 --> 00:42:50.639
of people are like I don't want to see a

00:42:49.679 --> 00:42:52.960
movie about a bunch of

00:42:50.639 --> 00:42:55.920
meatheads. But it's not. It's just a

00:42:52.960 --> 00:42:59.199
movie that happens to be around MMA but

00:42:55.920 --> 00:43:02.079
MMA. But it's a great movie. The the the

00:42:59.199 --> 00:43:04.639
scenes are fantastic. The acting

00:43:02.079 --> 00:43:07.119
is so good and the right and even the

00:43:04.639 --> 00:43:09.920
the fight scenes. They're so realistic,

00:43:07.119 --> 00:43:12.160
man. It's really like they I've saw all

00:43:09.920 --> 00:43:14.639
those fights. They recreated those

00:43:12.159 --> 00:43:17.440
fights about as good as you can get

00:43:14.639 --> 00:43:19.118
>> and just his crazy struggle. And you

00:43:17.440 --> 00:43:20.240
know the story behind the documentary,

00:43:19.119 --> 00:43:20.800
The Smashing Machine.

00:43:20.239 --> 00:43:22.959
>> No.

00:43:20.800 --> 00:43:24.880
>> So, The Smashing Machine was made when

00:43:22.960 --> 00:43:26.960
Mark was at the height of his powers and

00:43:24.880 --> 00:43:30.318
pride. And he was the most terrifying

00:43:26.960 --> 00:43:32.159
guy in the world. He was 265 lb of solid

00:43:30.318 --> 00:43:33.599
muscle just blowing through people.

00:43:32.159 --> 00:43:35.519
Didn't even look like a human being.

00:43:33.599 --> 00:43:37.838
Everyone was terrified of him. No one

00:43:35.519 --> 00:43:40.239
knew he was a drug addict. No one knew.

00:43:37.838 --> 00:43:43.039
And he spiraled out as they were

00:43:40.239 --> 00:43:45.519
filming. And he let them film him. Let

00:43:43.039 --> 00:43:47.599
them film him shooting up. let them film

00:43:45.519 --> 00:43:49.039
him like bringing this giant bag of

00:43:47.599 --> 00:43:51.519
pills with him and all this

00:43:49.039 --> 00:43:53.519
everywhere and just completely falling

00:43:51.519 --> 00:43:56.400
apart. While they were supposed to be

00:43:53.519 --> 00:43:58.159
capturing this hero movie of the

00:43:56.400 --> 00:44:00.480
greatest fighter in the world, he's

00:43:58.159 --> 00:44:02.559
falling apart like live in front of the

00:44:00.480 --> 00:44:03.838
documentary. It was amazing

00:44:02.559 --> 00:44:04.719
documentary.

00:44:03.838 --> 00:44:07.358
>> I got to see it.

00:44:04.719 --> 00:44:09.519
>> It's really good. But the I was so happy

00:44:07.358 --> 00:44:12.078
that they put it in a film and I was so

00:44:09.519 --> 00:44:13.519
happy that it gave Dwayne a vehicle to

00:44:12.079 --> 00:44:16.160
show what he's really capable of because

00:44:13.519 --> 00:44:18.480
he's so limited by a lot of just the

00:44:16.159 --> 00:44:21.118
parameters of the roles that he was in.

00:44:18.480 --> 00:44:23.280
>> Yeah. And by and by like galactic

00:44:21.119 --> 00:44:26.400
success, too, right? I mean, it's it's

00:44:23.280 --> 00:44:28.960
it's he he has he had to

00:44:26.400 --> 00:44:30.400
>> and will continue to have to

00:44:28.960 --> 00:44:31.780
>> push

00:44:30.400 --> 00:44:33.358
>> for that, right? Because it's

00:44:31.780 --> 00:44:35.680
[clears throat] what he wants, right?

00:44:33.358 --> 00:44:37.119
and not because what because what what

00:44:35.679 --> 00:44:39.440
they are going to continue to want him

00:44:37.119 --> 00:44:41.760
to do is you know the thing that that

00:44:39.440 --> 00:44:44.159
that mints them money. Um

00:44:41.760 --> 00:44:46.079
>> yeah but I suspect that his experience

00:44:44.159 --> 00:44:47.598
and feeling about this movie

00:44:46.079 --> 00:44:49.760
>> from the conversations I've had with

00:44:47.599 --> 00:44:51.119
him. Yeah. This this is this is

00:44:49.760 --> 00:44:51.839
>> this has changed him.

00:44:51.119 --> 00:44:54.160
>> Yeah.

00:44:51.838 --> 00:44:56.639
>> Well, I mean it's like this thing that

00:44:54.159 --> 00:44:58.879
these superhero guys have to do where

00:44:56.639 --> 00:45:00.400
it's like something has to change

00:44:58.880 --> 00:45:02.880
because otherwise you're going to be

00:45:00.400 --> 00:45:04.960
boxed. Yeah. And with a guy that looks

00:45:02.880 --> 00:45:06.000
like that, it's so easy to put him in

00:45:04.960 --> 00:45:07.679
that box.

00:45:06.000 --> 00:45:09.440
>> And so you see him now, he's thinner.

00:45:07.679 --> 00:45:10.879
He's lost a lot of weight. Dave Bautista

00:45:09.440 --> 00:45:12.880
went through a very similar thing, too,

00:45:10.880 --> 00:45:14.559
right? He wanted to be he wanted to have

00:45:12.880 --> 00:45:16.400
more range, wanted to have, you know,

00:45:14.559 --> 00:45:17.838
more opportunities to do exciting and

00:45:16.400 --> 00:45:19.760
different challenging things.

00:45:17.838 --> 00:45:21.519
>> Well, I think also coming from where he

00:45:19.760 --> 00:45:23.680
came from, right? It's like you talk

00:45:21.519 --> 00:45:26.400
about going from TV to movies in the old

00:45:23.679 --> 00:45:28.239
days, try coming from wrestling to to

00:45:26.400 --> 00:45:29.920
like the biggest movie star in the

00:45:28.239 --> 00:45:33.519
world, right? It's very it's like it's

00:45:29.920 --> 00:45:35.119
incredible that he did that and now he's

00:45:33.519 --> 00:45:37.759
in this place where he's got this

00:45:35.119 --> 00:45:39.838
leverage as because he's so beloved and

00:45:37.760 --> 00:45:41.760
you know that that he can kind of tailor

00:45:39.838 --> 00:45:42.239
the tailor what he wants from from here

00:45:41.760 --> 00:45:43.839
on out.

00:45:42.239 --> 00:45:45.519
>> It's hard to bring the audience with you

00:45:43.838 --> 00:45:47.440
and like no no I know you like this

00:45:45.519 --> 00:45:48.639
thing but let me let me show you

00:45:47.440 --> 00:45:50.400
something else. You know it's sort of

00:45:48.639 --> 00:45:52.078
like you go to the concert the band

00:45:50.400 --> 00:45:55.039
wants to play the new songs and play the

00:45:52.079 --> 00:45:57.039
hits. [laughter] You know

00:45:55.039 --> 00:45:58.639
it's always a little gilded gaze. All

00:45:57.039 --> 00:46:00.480
right. it. satisfaction.

00:45:58.639 --> 00:46:02.879
>> Yeah. [laughter]

00:46:00.480 --> 00:46:04.400
>> No, I love the song, too.

00:46:02.880 --> 00:46:05.680
>> You know, my my acoustic thing that I

00:46:04.400 --> 00:46:07.599
did, you know.

00:46:05.679 --> 00:46:09.039
>> Yeah. I went to see the Stones and when

00:46:07.599 --> 00:46:10.480
they were here in town and there was a

00:46:09.039 --> 00:46:10.880
few songs they played that were like new

00:46:10.480 --> 00:46:12.240
songs.

00:46:10.880 --> 00:46:14.880
>> Oh, really? See the audience is like,

00:46:12.239 --> 00:46:15.919
"Okay, okay. Go get a beer. Get the

00:46:14.880 --> 00:46:18.400
other one." [laughter]

00:46:15.920 --> 00:46:20.240
>> Yeah. That's But I mean, but you know,

00:46:18.400 --> 00:46:23.280
every artist, I guess, has to make that

00:46:20.239 --> 00:46:25.679
choice. And he's made it. and and it was

00:46:23.280 --> 00:46:29.119
amazing vehicle too cuz he still kept

00:46:25.679 --> 00:46:31.279
that superhuman hulkish frame and then

00:46:29.119 --> 00:46:32.640
but also showed like god there's like

00:46:31.280 --> 00:46:33.760
amazing depth there.

00:46:32.639 --> 00:46:35.920
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

00:46:33.760 --> 00:46:37.520
>> And that's the thing that's I think

00:46:35.920 --> 00:46:38.880
especially because it's a it's

00:46:37.519 --> 00:46:41.599
collaborative it happens with other

00:46:38.880 --> 00:46:43.680
people. That's what movies do that other

00:46:41.599 --> 00:46:45.440
doesn't do which is just create

00:46:43.679 --> 00:46:47.279
like you feel for people. It's empathy.

00:46:45.440 --> 00:46:49.039
It's all made up right that's not him.

00:46:47.280 --> 00:46:50.960
That's all it's all an illusion all

00:46:49.039 --> 00:46:53.279
But if you do it really well

00:46:50.960 --> 00:46:54.720
with like, you know, somebody that seems

00:46:53.280 --> 00:46:56.880
to really be feeling something like all

00:46:54.719 --> 00:46:58.799
of a sudden, I think what it does, it

00:46:56.880 --> 00:47:00.480
touches like these things in ourselves,

00:46:58.800 --> 00:47:02.720
you know, it has that same effect that

00:47:00.480 --> 00:47:05.440
Dwayne went through of articulate to you

00:47:02.719 --> 00:47:08.719
about like these moments that were kind

00:47:05.440 --> 00:47:10.639
of burned into his memory. Then really

00:47:08.719 --> 00:47:12.559
the best movies are kind of almost blank

00:47:10.639 --> 00:47:15.679
screens that we project our own

00:47:12.559 --> 00:47:17.279
like, oh yeah, I my father died or I

00:47:15.679 --> 00:47:20.000
went through this with my kid or I'm

00:47:17.280 --> 00:47:22.720
I feel alone and and and

00:47:20.000 --> 00:47:24.239
and miserable and and here's this like

00:47:22.719 --> 00:47:26.480
hopeful moment that someone has to go

00:47:24.239 --> 00:47:27.598
maybe I can maybe I can do something,

00:47:26.480 --> 00:47:29.679
you know, they inspire you, they touch

00:47:27.599 --> 00:47:32.480
you, they move you and the thing to go

00:47:29.679 --> 00:47:34.799
for. The other thing is, you know, it's

00:47:32.480 --> 00:47:36.400
a is to to tell a lighter story, to go

00:47:34.800 --> 00:47:37.680
through the more typical sort of tropes

00:47:36.400 --> 00:47:39.280
of it all. And it's a

00:47:37.679 --> 00:47:41.039
>> either way, you're in somebody else's

00:47:39.280 --> 00:47:42.560
perspective for a few hours and

00:47:41.039 --> 00:47:44.400
hopefully it breeds compassion.

00:47:42.559 --> 00:47:46.318
>> Well, when it's done right, there's a

00:47:44.400 --> 00:47:48.400
magic to it where you forget that it's

00:47:46.318 --> 00:47:50.159
happening and you're there when the most

00:47:48.400 --> 00:47:51.838
amazing trick is when it's done by

00:47:50.159 --> 00:47:53.679
famous people. You know, I was talking

00:47:51.838 --> 00:47:56.159
to Ethan Hawk about this. There's a

00:47:53.679 --> 00:47:57.679
scene with him and Kevin Bacon when in

00:47:56.159 --> 00:47:58.879
uh that movie with Julia Roberts about

00:47:57.679 --> 00:47:59.279
the end of the world. I forget the name

00:47:58.880 --> 00:48:02.400
of it.

00:47:59.280 --> 00:48:04.319
>> Right. Yeah, tomorrow

00:48:02.400 --> 00:48:05.680
something people will find it. But it's

00:48:04.318 --> 00:48:08.800
great, great movie. But there's

00:48:05.679 --> 00:48:10.480
this scene where he's trying to get he's

00:48:08.800 --> 00:48:13.519
talking to Kevin Bacon. Kevin Bacon's

00:48:10.480 --> 00:48:15.199
got a gun to him. And it's so I

00:48:13.519 --> 00:48:17.358
know that's Kevin Bacon. I know that's

00:48:15.199 --> 00:48:19.598
Ethan Hawk. It doesn't matter. Like

00:48:17.358 --> 00:48:21.838
you're locked in. You're locked

00:48:19.599 --> 00:48:25.280
in. You're like, "Oh shit." Like that's

00:48:21.838 --> 00:48:27.599
the magic. And And he was like, "But I'm

00:48:25.280 --> 00:48:30.880
locked in too." Like that's it's like a

00:48:27.599 --> 00:48:35.119
hypnosis. It's like everybody is in the

00:48:30.880 --> 00:48:37.039
scene in a very bizarre way. Like you

00:48:35.119 --> 00:48:39.680
you have the lines, but you're living

00:48:37.039 --> 00:48:41.838
it. And so, and that's either done or

00:48:39.679 --> 00:48:43.519
it's not done. And when it's not done,

00:48:41.838 --> 00:48:44.239
>> you could tell someone's kind of just

00:48:43.519 --> 00:48:45.440
performative.

00:48:44.239 --> 00:48:45.919
>> You feel it when you're watching it.

00:48:45.440 --> 00:48:47.920
>> Yes.

00:48:45.920 --> 00:48:49.280
>> If if it does that thing and it pulls

00:48:47.920 --> 00:48:50.559
you in, then it's happening.

00:48:49.280 --> 00:48:52.000
>> That's the magic of film.

00:48:50.559 --> 00:48:52.960
>> And sometimes you trick people, I guess,

00:48:52.000 --> 00:48:54.719
but for the most part,

00:48:52.960 --> 00:48:56.240
>> for the most part, you don't. you're

00:48:54.719 --> 00:48:58.318
feeling it and you it's really

00:48:56.239 --> 00:49:00.799
happening. It's much more like

00:48:58.318 --> 00:49:03.358
>> other human beings recognize human

00:49:00.800 --> 00:49:06.480
beings experiencing real Yes. They

00:49:03.358 --> 00:49:08.639
they mirror like I know what

00:49:06.480 --> 00:49:10.240
>> sorrow looks like without having to

00:49:08.639 --> 00:49:12.000
I can't break it down for you or

00:49:10.239 --> 00:49:14.639
I even you know you we all know kind of

00:49:12.000 --> 00:49:16.880
what like oh he's a little anxious right

00:49:14.639 --> 00:49:18.799
now or did I maybe offend him or you

00:49:16.880 --> 00:49:21.119
know all these little things and when

00:49:18.800 --> 00:49:24.960
some like in the rare moments when these

00:49:21.119 --> 00:49:27.280
big feelings or the things happen you

00:49:24.960 --> 00:49:29.119
feel it too you know and you usually

00:49:27.280 --> 00:49:31.359
like an example is there's an old saying

00:49:29.119 --> 00:49:33.119
about like you know actors try to cry

00:49:31.358 --> 00:49:34.400
people try not to cry Like because when

00:49:33.119 --> 00:49:35.519
you're really experiencing that

00:49:34.400 --> 00:49:37.119
you don't want people to see it. You

00:49:35.519 --> 00:49:38.318
want to hide it. You want to No, I'm

00:49:37.119 --> 00:49:39.838
okay. I'm fine. You know, it's like

00:49:38.318 --> 00:49:41.119
>> you want to pull the sheet up over

00:49:39.838 --> 00:49:42.239
Exactly. Exactly.

00:49:41.119 --> 00:49:44.160
>> But the other thing that's really

00:49:42.239 --> 00:49:45.759
interesting from from our side of doing

00:49:44.159 --> 00:49:48.239
it, because he and I have talked about

00:49:45.760 --> 00:49:50.480
this a lot, is and I've always said

00:49:48.239 --> 00:49:52.479
publicly, like great actors are good

00:49:50.480 --> 00:49:54.960
enough for both of you. Like when you're

00:49:52.480 --> 00:49:56.480
in a scene with a great actor,

00:49:54.960 --> 00:49:58.159
>> that thing that Ethan's talking about,

00:49:56.480 --> 00:49:59.838
that hypnosis or whatever you want to

00:49:58.159 --> 00:50:01.118
call it, that energy, that that place

00:49:59.838 --> 00:50:02.880
where you go, right?

00:50:01.119 --> 00:50:04.880
>> They're bringing you right where they

00:50:02.880 --> 00:50:06.960
tractor beam. They will suck you

00:50:04.880 --> 00:50:08.480
right in with them. And like as quickly

00:50:06.960 --> 00:50:10.639
as you look into their eyes and you're

00:50:08.480 --> 00:50:12.960
like, you're like just there. And it's

00:50:10.639 --> 00:50:14.960
like, and it's not like it's like riding

00:50:12.960 --> 00:50:16.159
the easiest wave you've ever ridden in

00:50:14.960 --> 00:50:17.920
your life,

00:50:16.159 --> 00:50:19.358
>> you know? It can be the hardest thing in

00:50:17.920 --> 00:50:20.800
the world and it can be the easiest

00:50:19.358 --> 00:50:22.960
thing in the world. When you're with a

00:50:20.800 --> 00:50:23.839
great actor, it just it's just if the

00:50:22.960 --> 00:50:25.358
scenes

00:50:23.838 --> 00:50:26.639
>> Yeah, that's the real paradox is like

00:50:25.358 --> 00:50:28.719
all the stuff that I'm the most proud

00:50:26.639 --> 00:50:30.400
of, the weird thing about us has felt

00:50:28.719 --> 00:50:31.279
very easy at the time. And the

00:50:30.400 --> 00:50:32.400
where you're banging your head against

00:50:31.280 --> 00:50:33.599
the wall trying to get blood from a

00:50:32.400 --> 00:50:34.880
stone and killing yourself and the whole

00:50:33.599 --> 00:50:36.800
thing and it just

00:50:34.880 --> 00:50:38.160
>> it ends up feeling empty. And

00:50:36.800 --> 00:50:40.880
the thing about the stuff that I'm proud

00:50:38.159 --> 00:50:42.639
of is I'm my insecurity is like should

00:50:40.880 --> 00:50:44.160
be harder than this, right? Are we are

00:50:42.639 --> 00:50:44.879
like we work hard enough? Are we get you

00:50:44.159 --> 00:50:46.558
know

00:50:44.880 --> 00:50:48.000
>> and learn to kind of just trust that? Go

00:50:46.559 --> 00:50:49.519
feels good. Let's just keep going, you

00:50:48.000 --> 00:50:51.199
know? Well, there's some scenes in this

00:50:49.519 --> 00:50:52.800
movie without giving too much away where

00:50:51.199 --> 00:50:55.118
there's conflict between you two guys

00:50:52.800 --> 00:50:56.559
that seem so real and that's even harder

00:50:55.119 --> 00:50:59.119
to recreate because you guys are good

00:50:56.559 --> 00:51:01.200
friends and you're making the movie

00:50:59.119 --> 00:51:03.280
together and you've got this scene where

00:51:01.199 --> 00:51:04.719
you're acting in this and with the

00:51:03.280 --> 00:51:06.400
conflict with the two of you guys the

00:51:04.719 --> 00:51:08.239
movie, but it's very real.

00:51:06.400 --> 00:51:09.760
>> The reason that it was real is that I

00:51:08.239 --> 00:51:12.558
like that scene. The reason it's it it

00:51:09.760 --> 00:51:16.000
it works, I think, is because

00:51:12.559 --> 00:51:18.079
he's coming at me and he's he really

00:51:16.000 --> 00:51:20.239
needs to know something and I'm

00:51:18.079 --> 00:51:22.000
completely blanking him.

00:51:20.239 --> 00:51:23.439
>> Like I'm just he's going, "You got to

00:51:22.000 --> 00:51:24.639
tell me what's going on, man." He's

00:51:23.440 --> 00:51:26.159
like, "It's awesome." Like, "What what

00:51:24.639 --> 00:51:29.598
is going what is the thing?" And I'm and

00:51:26.159 --> 00:51:32.799
I'm just like literally kind of blanking

00:51:29.599 --> 00:51:35.200
him in this bizarre way which which like

00:51:32.800 --> 00:51:38.480
was really frustrating him in real life

00:51:35.199 --> 00:51:40.639
because he he was that feeling of like

00:51:38.480 --> 00:51:42.960
it's tell me dude it's you and

00:51:40.639 --> 00:51:44.799
me like when he finally goes he screams

00:51:42.960 --> 00:51:46.880
out I don't trust you right now that's a

00:51:44.800 --> 00:51:48.480
problem right which is like what

00:51:46.880 --> 00:51:51.119
you would say to an old friend like what

00:51:48.480 --> 00:51:53.838
are you doing man like what

00:51:51.119 --> 00:51:55.920
>> what what are you do like

00:51:53.838 --> 00:51:57.119
tell me the the betrayal me or

00:51:55.920 --> 00:51:58.960
tell me the truth. Lie, lie to me or

00:51:57.119 --> 00:52:00.640
tell me talk to me and like step outside

00:51:58.960 --> 00:52:01.280
our whole relationship and all of a

00:52:00.639 --> 00:52:02.078
sudden

00:52:01.280 --> 00:52:04.079
>> just act like

00:52:02.079 --> 00:52:07.280
>> give me this weird look of just like I

00:52:04.079 --> 00:52:10.079
don't know, you know, like [laughter]

00:52:07.280 --> 00:52:11.680
and so when we were doing the scene,

00:52:10.079 --> 00:52:13.280
it was really pissing [laughter]

00:52:11.679 --> 00:52:14.318
him off. I could see him like getting

00:52:13.280 --> 00:52:15.680
>> There's the one line that wasn't written

00:52:14.318 --> 00:52:16.800
that I saw I didn't remember doing was,

00:52:15.679 --> 00:52:17.039
"I would have never you like

00:52:16.800 --> 00:52:18.318
this."

00:52:17.039 --> 00:52:18.960
>> I I would have never you like

00:52:18.318 --> 00:52:20.239
this. Yeah.

00:52:18.960 --> 00:52:21.920
>> Which I didn't even remember saying is

00:52:20.239 --> 00:52:23.439
George, I like that. Keep that thing. I

00:52:21.920 --> 00:52:25.280
wouldn't have you. And I was I

00:52:23.440 --> 00:52:27.519
thought I was like what is he what did I

00:52:25.280 --> 00:52:29.040
just you and I so watched the playback.

00:52:27.519 --> 00:52:31.679
It wasn't those rare moments again. It

00:52:29.039 --> 00:52:33.599
was like where it was that thing of you

00:52:31.679 --> 00:52:36.239
doing all the work by by not doing

00:52:33.599 --> 00:52:38.000
anything which I didn't expect that to

00:52:36.239 --> 00:52:40.399
be the choice that you made and it just

00:52:38.000 --> 00:52:41.760
was confusing and felt like just you

00:52:40.400 --> 00:52:44.079
know leaving you out in the

00:52:41.760 --> 00:52:46.240
cold. I the only thing I could rely on

00:52:44.079 --> 00:52:47.519
is like I you know I I would I wouldn't

00:52:46.239 --> 00:52:49.358
do this to you [laughter] you know. So

00:52:47.519 --> 00:52:51.679
do you have in those moments where

00:52:49.358 --> 00:52:53.519
you're you're ad living a line where a

00:52:51.679 --> 00:52:55.358
line come is it just just that feels

00:52:53.519 --> 00:52:55.599
like that's what you say?

00:52:55.358 --> 00:52:57.039
>> Yeah.

00:52:55.599 --> 00:52:58.480
>> It's just kind of like he couldn't stop

00:52:57.039 --> 00:53:00.558
from saying it, right? You know,

00:52:58.480 --> 00:53:02.639
>> but you have to be working with somebody

00:53:00.559 --> 00:53:04.480
that makes that okay. You know what I

00:53:02.639 --> 00:53:06.318
mean? Cuz the part of your brain that

00:53:04.480 --> 00:53:08.240
will like govern you or tell you

00:53:06.318 --> 00:53:10.480
something's not okay, whatever, will

00:53:08.239 --> 00:53:12.000
step in if it's sort of like, you know,

00:53:10.480 --> 00:53:13.679
listen, I expect you to do this

00:53:12.000 --> 00:53:15.760
boxes. And there's there's uh directors

00:53:13.679 --> 00:53:18.318
and writers who who really do really

00:53:15.760 --> 00:53:19.440
care about every word precisely and that

00:53:18.318 --> 00:53:20.800
you know and that's that's how they do

00:53:19.440 --> 00:53:24.240
it and that's fine. That could be great

00:53:20.800 --> 00:53:25.440
too. For me like it it I find it's it

00:53:24.239 --> 00:53:27.439
becomes more interesting and sometimes

00:53:25.440 --> 00:53:28.559
better stuff happens if you actually

00:53:27.440 --> 00:53:30.000
feel like you don't have to say any of

00:53:28.559 --> 00:53:32.319
the lines. I don't have to say any of

00:53:30.000 --> 00:53:35.280
the lines in the scene. Then I'll tend

00:53:32.318 --> 00:53:37.519
to say the ones that feel right. But it

00:53:35.280 --> 00:53:39.280
but like it's that it's that fake thing

00:53:37.519 --> 00:53:40.960
that never happens in life which is I'm

00:53:39.280 --> 00:53:42.880
never sitting here talking to you and

00:53:40.960 --> 00:53:44.159
think what's my next line? What am I

00:53:42.880 --> 00:53:44.480
supposed to say and how should I say

00:53:44.159 --> 00:53:46.159
that?

00:53:44.480 --> 00:53:47.440
>> And it's not about the lines ever. It's

00:53:46.159 --> 00:53:48.960
not about the word. It's about what's h

00:53:47.440 --> 00:53:49.679
what's the scene about? What's happening

00:53:48.960 --> 00:53:51.119
in the scene?

00:53:49.679 --> 00:53:52.719
>> It's one of the reasons why curb curb

00:53:51.119 --> 00:53:55.358
your enthusiasm is so great

00:53:52.719 --> 00:53:56.000
>> cuz Larry David just gives you a place

00:53:55.358 --> 00:53:56.639
to get to.

00:53:56.000 --> 00:53:58.079
>> Yeah. Like

00:53:56.639 --> 00:53:59.519
>> it gives them an ag kind of a loose

00:53:58.079 --> 00:54:01.519
agenda of what's going to happen

00:53:59.519 --> 00:54:02.800
>> and then films a bunch of stuff and

00:54:01.519 --> 00:54:04.318
everybody figures it out.

00:54:02.800 --> 00:54:06.640
>> Yeah. And a lot of times that show's

00:54:04.318 --> 00:54:08.480
about the awkward in between when

00:54:06.639 --> 00:54:10.078
people are missing each other or not not

00:54:08.480 --> 00:54:10.960
sure of themselves and a little

00:54:10.079 --> 00:54:11.920
embarrassed.

00:54:10.960 --> 00:54:12.880
genius show.

00:54:11.920 --> 00:54:14.800
>> It really is.

00:54:12.880 --> 00:54:16.720
>> And and and people talk like we're

00:54:14.800 --> 00:54:18.400
talking like you occasionally talk over

00:54:16.719 --> 00:54:20.159
each other. There's a stumble. There's

00:54:18.400 --> 00:54:21.920
no one know like what what what the

00:54:20.159 --> 00:54:22.480
are you talk? There's weirdness [snorts]

00:54:21.920 --> 00:54:24.079
to

00:54:22.480 --> 00:54:26.960
>> because what's also happening is that

00:54:24.079 --> 00:54:29.119
forces you to really listen, right? And

00:54:26.960 --> 00:54:31.519
that is that is the hardest thing to

00:54:29.119 --> 00:54:33.838
kind of learn for young actors I think

00:54:31.519 --> 00:54:35.599
is is it's really all about listening.

00:54:33.838 --> 00:54:37.279
And like I did a bunch of movies with

00:54:35.599 --> 00:54:40.079
Paul Greengrass and that's how he works

00:54:37.280 --> 00:54:42.240
where he where you just know the agenda

00:54:40.079 --> 00:54:44.160
going in. You know some basic things

00:54:42.239 --> 00:54:46.719
that you you know what your guy needs

00:54:44.159 --> 00:54:48.318
going in. Like I was playing a chief

00:54:46.719 --> 00:54:50.000
warrant officer and I had to go through

00:54:48.318 --> 00:54:52.480
a door and there was a guy and I needed

00:54:50.000 --> 00:54:54.159
to interrogate him and I this is what I

00:54:52.480 --> 00:54:56.159
needed to know from him. I needed to

00:54:54.159 --> 00:54:58.000
secure the house with my guys and I

00:54:56.159 --> 00:54:59.598
needed to get to this guy. We needed to

00:54:58.000 --> 00:55:01.519
make sure everybody here was secure. So,

00:54:59.599 --> 00:55:03.519
and it just and they and he put me with

00:55:01.519 --> 00:55:06.318
a bunch of real

00:55:03.519 --> 00:55:07.679
combat veterans and we went in

00:55:06.318 --> 00:55:08.960
and you know they're the

00:55:07.679 --> 00:55:09.440
>> another thing that does your job for

00:55:08.960 --> 00:55:11.119
you.

00:55:09.440 --> 00:55:13.519
>> It's just being around the real people.

00:55:11.119 --> 00:55:16.240
>> Joe putting the the cops from Miami, you

00:55:13.519 --> 00:55:18.960
know, on these parts and it just like by

00:55:16.239 --> 00:55:20.639
osmosis you feel more legitimate. The

00:55:18.960 --> 00:55:22.159
thing feels more authentic to the

00:55:20.639 --> 00:55:23.838
audience. You don't know why because you

00:55:22.159 --> 00:55:25.679
don't know what the how what the

00:55:23.838 --> 00:55:27.838
culture is of the nar tactical narcotics

00:55:25.679 --> 00:55:29.519
team in Miami. But when you see the real

00:55:27.838 --> 00:55:30.719
guys, you kind of oh you're like, "Yeah,

00:55:29.519 --> 00:55:32.239
that seems right."

00:55:30.719 --> 00:55:32.799
>> Miami was a perfect place to have it,

00:55:32.239 --> 00:55:33.199
too.

00:55:32.800 --> 00:55:34.800
>> Miami.

00:55:33.199 --> 00:55:37.199
>> Well, it's also specific to this because

00:55:34.800 --> 00:55:39.200
it's based on this real tactical

00:55:37.199 --> 00:55:42.078
narcotics [snorts] team in in in Miami.

00:55:39.199 --> 00:55:44.719
And and uh and the guy who ran that,

00:55:42.079 --> 00:55:46.400
this guy Chris Casiano is Joe's friend

00:55:44.719 --> 00:55:49.439
and he's the guy that my character is

00:55:46.400 --> 00:55:51.039
based on. Um, so Chris was Chris we

00:55:49.440 --> 00:55:52.559
went, you know, we rode along with Chris

00:55:51.039 --> 00:55:54.318
down there. We went with that team and

00:55:52.559 --> 00:55:55.839
watched them operate and then hung out

00:55:54.318 --> 00:55:57.599
with them and then they came up and they

00:55:55.838 --> 00:55:59.358
were, you know, all in the movie and

00:55:57.599 --> 00:56:02.000
Chris was around as a technical adviser

00:55:59.358 --> 00:56:03.519
the whole time. So any question like

00:56:02.000 --> 00:56:05.039
little details, all right, how do I go

00:56:03.519 --> 00:56:06.400
through this door? What do I do? What do

00:56:05.039 --> 00:56:08.239
you do here? What's the what's the

00:56:06.400 --> 00:56:10.880
protocol here? What you know, all of

00:56:08.239 --> 00:56:12.639
that stuff was kind of overseen by him

00:56:10.880 --> 00:56:13.519
so that it so that it was how they

00:56:12.639 --> 00:56:15.440
really do it.

00:56:13.519 --> 00:56:18.000
>> That whole town is so Did you

00:56:15.440 --> 00:56:19.280
ever see Cocaine Cowboys? Yes.

00:56:18.000 --> 00:56:21.679
>> Oh

00:56:19.280 --> 00:56:23.359
>> The entire graduating class of

00:56:21.679 --> 00:56:26.318
the police academy one year either wound

00:56:23.358 --> 00:56:27.920
up murdered or in jail. [laughter]

00:56:26.318 --> 00:56:30.880
>> But that's what happens. All of a sudden

00:56:27.920 --> 00:56:32.639
you push so much money into

00:56:30.880 --> 00:56:34.400
something, right? And it's like and

00:56:32.639 --> 00:56:35.199
before they even kind of figured out

00:56:34.400 --> 00:56:36.480
like

00:56:35.199 --> 00:56:38.318
>> you know and it was there wasn't even a

00:56:36.480 --> 00:56:40.318
lot of stigma. I was like, "Ah, cocaine,

00:56:38.318 --> 00:56:42.400
whatever. It's kind of rich guys fun

00:56:40.318 --> 00:56:44.318
drug." But, you know, is there some

00:56:42.400 --> 00:56:46.480
statistic about like, you know, the

00:56:44.318 --> 00:56:48.000
amount of money in the banks in Miami

00:56:46.480 --> 00:56:48.559
was like the same as the rest of the

00:56:48.000 --> 00:56:50.480
country?

00:56:48.559 --> 00:56:53.200
>> More [laughter] banks per capita in

00:56:50.480 --> 00:56:55.119
Miami than anywhere else in the country

00:56:53.199 --> 00:56:56.719
>> because they were just laundering money

00:56:55.119 --> 00:56:57.680
and they got away with it. They

00:56:56.719 --> 00:56:59.279
literally got away with it.

00:56:57.679 --> 00:57:02.159
>> Have you ever flown over biminy? You

00:56:59.280 --> 00:57:03.760
know, the island. So, so if you fly

00:57:02.159 --> 00:57:07.358
over, ever fly over Biminy, there are

00:57:03.760 --> 00:57:09.440
all these like Cessnas underwater, all

00:57:07.358 --> 00:57:11.358
these planes like around the island cuz

00:57:09.440 --> 00:57:13.519
what they used to do, Bimin is like the

00:57:11.358 --> 00:57:15.838
closest it's 50 miles off the coast of

00:57:13.519 --> 00:57:18.239
Florida. Um they would they would come

00:57:15.838 --> 00:57:20.239
in with a plane full of drugs and just

00:57:18.239 --> 00:57:21.358
crash the plane into the water. They

00:57:20.239 --> 00:57:23.519
would land it on purpose.

00:57:21.358 --> 00:57:25.440
>> On purpose because there's no runway on

00:57:23.519 --> 00:57:26.318
Biminy. No, it's like it. We're

00:57:25.440 --> 00:57:28.559
going to dump the plane in the

00:57:26.318 --> 00:57:31.358
>> They would have 10 cigarette boats, like

00:57:28.559 --> 00:57:33.359
a flotilla of boats waiting. They would

00:57:31.358 --> 00:57:36.318
crash the plane. They'd offload the

00:57:33.358 --> 00:57:37.784
drugs as the plane was sinking, right?

00:57:36.318 --> 00:57:39.039
And and then they put it they put

00:57:37.784 --> 00:57:40.960
[laughter]

00:57:39.039 --> 00:57:42.558
the Coast Guard like figures. They're

00:57:40.960 --> 00:57:44.960
always coming for them. That's why they

00:57:42.559 --> 00:57:46.240
have 10 boats. They throw the drugs into

00:57:44.960 --> 00:57:47.838
one of the boats

00:57:46.239 --> 00:57:50.318
>> and they got a one out of 10 chance of

00:57:47.838 --> 00:57:52.480
making it. They just scatter

00:57:50.318 --> 00:57:53.838
>> and the Coast Guard goes after one of

00:57:52.480 --> 00:57:55.358
them and hopes they get the right one

00:57:53.838 --> 00:57:57.039
and not. It's just like, "No, it's just

00:57:55.358 --> 00:57:58.798
taking a cruise tonight. What's the

00:57:57.039 --> 00:58:01.519
problem, officer?"

00:57:58.798 --> 00:58:03.039
>> But the planes are still all submerged.

00:58:01.519 --> 00:58:03.280
Like you could The water's so clear. You

00:58:03.039 --> 00:58:04.798
can see

00:58:03.280 --> 00:58:05.280
>> how many Oh, wow.

00:58:04.798 --> 00:58:06.159
>> There you go.

00:58:05.280 --> 00:58:08.559
>> Wow.

00:58:06.159 --> 00:58:09.279
>> That's crazy. How many planes

00:58:08.559 --> 00:58:11.280
are out there?

00:58:09.280 --> 00:58:14.720
>> I flew over it probably 20 years ago.

00:58:11.280 --> 00:58:14.960
But I mean there's

00:58:14.719 --> 00:58:16.000
>> Yeah,

00:58:14.960 --> 00:58:17.679
>> that wasn't a

00:58:16.000 --> 00:58:18.880
>> I don't know how long I mean but if you

00:58:17.679 --> 00:58:20.879
think of probably the cost of one of

00:58:18.880 --> 00:58:22.079
those little Cessnas probably wasn't I

00:58:20.880 --> 00:58:24.318
mean with the amount of drugs they were

00:58:22.079 --> 00:58:26.160
moving on on Yeah. There you go.

00:58:24.318 --> 00:58:27.358
wild.

00:58:26.159 --> 00:58:29.039
>> That's great. They're kind of landing

00:58:27.358 --> 00:58:30.000
where it's sort of shallow. [laughter]

00:58:29.039 --> 00:58:30.960
>> Yeah. They land and it's like

00:58:30.000 --> 00:58:32.880
it. We can swim

00:58:30.960 --> 00:58:35.280
>> 5 to 10 feet of water and what do they

00:58:32.880 --> 00:58:36.160
they land at whatever 55 knots. So you

00:58:35.280 --> 00:58:39.200
just try to

00:58:36.159 --> 00:58:41.759
>> looks nice too like sure you can

00:58:39.199 --> 00:58:44.480
be comfortable but I mean Sully landed a

00:58:41.760 --> 00:58:48.480
737 or whatever it was in water.

00:58:44.480 --> 00:58:50.639
>> Yeah. wild. What a crazy part of

00:58:48.480 --> 00:58:51.039
our culture that that happened.

00:58:50.639 --> 00:58:53.118
>> Yeah.

00:58:51.039 --> 00:58:55.358
>> That the the the whole cocaine run

00:58:53.119 --> 00:58:57.599
during the 80s in particular like Miami

00:58:55.358 --> 00:58:59.358
Vice all that like it's like it

00:58:57.599 --> 00:58:59.920
shaped the entire country

00:58:59.358 --> 00:59:02.239
>> for sure.

00:58:59.920 --> 00:59:03.920
>> Oh yeah. I just remember that one guy in

00:59:02.239 --> 00:59:05.358
that documentary who was like I think he

00:59:03.920 --> 00:59:06.720
was from Boston and he was like the

00:59:05.358 --> 00:59:08.078
pilot and he had figured out the route

00:59:06.719 --> 00:59:09.439
and he was like man

00:59:08.079 --> 00:59:11.599
>> like we could have gotten away with this

00:59:09.440 --> 00:59:13.119
forever. [laughter]

00:59:11.599 --> 00:59:14.640
>> It was somebody talked and he knew

00:59:13.119 --> 00:59:16.559
that's the only way we would have been

00:59:14.639 --> 00:59:17.759
caught. He was like I I had it all. He

00:59:16.559 --> 00:59:19.599
was clearly really smart.

00:59:17.760 --> 00:59:21.119
>> One of the guys did too. You know what I

00:59:19.599 --> 00:59:22.640
mean? There's a whole lot of people out

00:59:21.119 --> 00:59:24.079
there that were like yeah we had a nice

00:59:22.639 --> 00:59:25.679
run back. [laughter]

00:59:24.079 --> 00:59:26.480
>> It's why I got eight houses. You know

00:59:25.679 --> 00:59:29.199
it's like

00:59:26.480 --> 00:59:30.798
>> Oh yeah. That's one of the real crimes

00:59:29.199 --> 00:59:32.399
that people got away with was bringing

00:59:30.798 --> 00:59:33.759
cocaine into this country. There's a lot

00:59:32.400 --> 00:59:35.680
of people that got very wealthy,

00:59:33.760 --> 00:59:36.400
including banks, which is just really

00:59:35.679 --> 00:59:38.719
crazy.

00:59:36.400 --> 00:59:40.400
>> Banks or the jewelry companies,

00:59:38.719 --> 00:59:42.239
Jag. There was like more Jaguar

00:59:40.400 --> 00:59:43.760
dealerships in Miami than everywhere

00:59:42.239 --> 00:59:45.598
else in the country. And it was like

00:59:43.760 --> 00:59:46.960
doesn't pay to ask questions. So, yep. I

00:59:45.599 --> 00:59:47.280
guess a lot of people like our cars

00:59:46.960 --> 00:59:50.159
here.

00:59:47.280 --> 00:59:51.440
>> You don't say all cash. Sure. [laughter]

00:59:50.159 --> 00:59:53.279
>> Yeah, we can make you a deal. Sure.

00:59:51.440 --> 00:59:55.679
Well, how many backyards in Miami still

00:59:53.280 --> 00:59:57.040
to this day have bags just buried

00:59:55.679 --> 00:59:58.879
somewhere that nobody knows about?

00:59:57.039 --> 01:00:00.480
>> It's probably worth just checking.

00:59:58.880 --> 01:00:01.119
>> When you buy a house in Miami, just dig

01:00:00.480 --> 01:00:02.400
the yard up.

01:00:01.119 --> 01:00:04.720
>> Well, at least find out who owned it

01:00:02.400 --> 01:00:06.400
before you. Oh, he's a pilot.

01:00:04.719 --> 01:00:08.558
>> Get a truck. [laughter]

01:00:06.400 --> 01:00:10.639
>> Get a tractor. It's time to dig up the

01:00:08.559 --> 01:00:12.319
backyard. I mean, one of those guys in

01:00:10.639 --> 01:00:13.838
the films had millions of dollars just

01:00:12.318 --> 01:00:14.558
buried in his backyard. They had nowhere

01:00:13.838 --> 01:00:15.838
to put it.

01:00:14.559 --> 01:00:17.519
>> They were making so much money, they

01:00:15.838 --> 01:00:19.039
just had to bury it places.

01:00:17.519 --> 01:00:21.440
>> That's crazy. Well, it's why

01:00:19.039 --> 01:00:24.239
it's a perfect backdrop for the film,

01:00:21.440 --> 01:00:26.079
you know, because you know that the

01:00:24.239 --> 01:00:27.358
situation that the cops without giving

01:00:26.079 --> 01:00:28.640
away too much of the plot, but the

01:00:27.358 --> 01:00:30.798
situation that the cops are dealing with

01:00:28.639 --> 01:00:33.838
is a very real situation. I mean, so

01:00:30.798 --> 01:00:36.079
many DEA agents turn dirty. So many cops

01:00:33.838 --> 01:00:37.519
turn dirty. It's because it just get

01:00:36.079 --> 01:00:39.519
temptation. It's like you take this

01:00:37.519 --> 01:00:41.358
these people, you know, you got like

01:00:39.519 --> 01:00:42.719
six, seven people, they work for

01:00:41.358 --> 01:00:44.880
a living. They have the same

01:00:42.719 --> 01:00:47.439
they have to deal with. And there's $20

01:00:44.880 --> 01:00:49.680
million, you know, and it's I mean it

01:00:47.440 --> 01:00:51.039
makes for a great like drama too. Even

01:00:49.679 --> 01:00:52.159
like the you know in the performances

01:00:51.039 --> 01:00:54.318
because all of a sudden somebody's

01:00:52.159 --> 01:00:56.159
thinking like okay how are they going to

01:00:54.318 --> 01:00:58.000
react you know who be the first person

01:00:56.159 --> 01:01:00.000
to say you I'm going to have to turn

01:00:58.000 --> 01:01:02.000
this all in you know and and like

01:01:00.000 --> 01:01:04.639
getting to play that And for me

01:01:02.000 --> 01:01:06.559
also I like you know without being you

01:01:04.639 --> 01:01:08.558
know sanctimonious or preachy because I

01:01:06.559 --> 01:01:10.079
really think movies we're talking about

01:01:08.559 --> 01:01:12.400
like what they do well what they do very

01:01:10.079 --> 01:01:13.839
poorly is deliver messages or lecture.

01:01:12.400 --> 01:01:14.880
as soon as you get into that thing.

01:01:13.838 --> 01:01:16.318
>> Yeah.

01:01:14.880 --> 01:01:17.760
>> The audience is like, I you know, I'm

01:01:16.318 --> 01:01:19.440
going to go to church for that or

01:01:17.760 --> 01:01:22.160
school for I don't need that

01:01:19.440 --> 01:01:24.480
here. Um, but I like that what was

01:01:22.159 --> 01:01:27.598
underneath it is like this is a

01:01:24.480 --> 01:01:29.599
hard job and and that there's a lot like

01:01:27.599 --> 01:01:30.960
there's a lot of value like the these

01:01:29.599 --> 01:01:32.400
characters, the ones that are trying to

01:01:30.960 --> 01:01:34.480
do their job are trying to get through

01:01:32.400 --> 01:01:36.079
the day and just at the end of the day

01:01:34.480 --> 01:01:38.159
have done their job like they said they

01:01:36.079 --> 01:01:39.760
were going to do, you know, adhere to

01:01:38.159 --> 01:01:41.118
the ethics that they're supposed

01:01:39.760 --> 01:01:42.480
to and at the end of the day be able to

01:01:41.119 --> 01:01:45.358
sleep at night and believe there's some

01:01:42.480 --> 01:01:46.639
value in not stealing the money

01:01:45.358 --> 01:01:48.159
or flipping somebody over, you know what

01:01:46.639 --> 01:01:50.000
I mean? And doing all that And

01:01:48.159 --> 01:01:52.000
that's the win. The wind doesn't have to

01:01:50.000 --> 01:01:54.318
be get away with the bag of money or

01:01:52.000 --> 01:01:56.480
you know save the world from uh

01:01:54.318 --> 01:01:58.400
you know the evil scientist laser beam

01:01:56.480 --> 01:01:59.679
or whatever. It's like the end of the

01:01:58.400 --> 01:02:01.760
day if you can live with

01:01:59.679 --> 01:02:02.879
yourself and say look you know I quitted

01:02:01.760 --> 01:02:04.880
myself according to what the

01:02:02.880 --> 01:02:07.200
expectations were and what my true to my

01:02:04.880 --> 01:02:09.039
word and I I think there's so like

01:02:07.199 --> 01:02:10.719
that's a I don't know that that affected

01:02:09.039 --> 01:02:13.039
me. I I found that kind of moving and

01:02:10.719 --> 01:02:15.039
and you can't do it if you create like

01:02:13.039 --> 01:02:16.480
if you to credit to Joe Script like just

01:02:15.039 --> 01:02:17.920
two dimensional characters. I'm the

01:02:16.480 --> 01:02:19.599
hero, I'm the villain or this person

01:02:17.920 --> 01:02:21.599
would never do that. They all have to be

01:02:19.599 --> 01:02:22.400
real people like you would be subject to

01:02:21.599 --> 01:02:24.480
like

01:02:22.400 --> 01:02:25.920
>> temptation. Money just represents

01:02:24.480 --> 01:02:27.280
whatever that thing is you think you

01:02:25.920 --> 01:02:29.039
want or that's going to make your life

01:02:27.280 --> 01:02:31.839
better. You're you know it's something

01:02:29.039 --> 01:02:33.440
different to everybody. But, you know,

01:02:31.838 --> 01:02:35.358
and especially when you're like you're

01:02:33.440 --> 01:02:36.880
facing like real, you know, the custody

01:02:35.358 --> 01:02:39.279
thing or the, you know, the sick

01:02:36.880 --> 01:02:41.358
relative or or whatever it is, that's

01:02:39.280 --> 01:02:43.440
it's a real thing. Nobody's immune to to

01:02:41.358 --> 01:02:45.039
to that kind of temptation. You know,

01:02:43.440 --> 01:02:46.559
sometimes I think it's cavalier to be

01:02:45.039 --> 01:02:48.960
like, "Oh, well, you're dirty." You're

01:02:46.559 --> 01:02:50.480
not putting people in a very tough

01:02:48.960 --> 01:02:52.720
situation a lot of times, particularly

01:02:50.480 --> 01:02:54.559
if they're feeling like undervalued. I

01:02:52.719 --> 01:02:56.480
like the woman scene where Catalina is

01:02:54.559 --> 01:02:58.160
like, "I get pissed. I get

01:02:56.480 --> 01:03:00.159
yelled at. I get on." You know what

01:02:58.159 --> 01:03:01.279
I mean? like I'm out here grinding every

01:03:00.159 --> 01:03:04.480
day.

01:03:01.280 --> 01:03:06.880
>> You know, it's uh it's a lot to a lot to

01:03:04.480 --> 01:03:09.760
ask and I think it's it's worth kind of

01:03:06.880 --> 01:03:11.838
making that, you know, heroic without

01:03:09.760 --> 01:03:13.839
sort of indicating too much.

01:03:11.838 --> 01:03:15.440
>> No, it's really well written because

01:03:13.838 --> 01:03:16.960
there's no suspension of disbelief

01:03:15.440 --> 01:03:19.440
moments. It's a it's a and that's hard

01:03:16.960 --> 01:03:21.519
to do in a big blockbuster action movie.

01:03:19.440 --> 01:03:23.119
There's always one movie moment in a

01:03:21.519 --> 01:03:24.559
movie where you're like, "What? Come on.

01:03:23.119 --> 01:03:25.760
How do you do that? That's

01:03:24.559 --> 01:03:27.359
>> convenient." You guys don't have any of

01:03:25.760 --> 01:03:30.079
those. There's none of that. And I loved

01:03:27.358 --> 01:03:32.159
it. I loved it. I loved that that aspect

01:03:30.079 --> 01:03:33.839
of it too where it felt like all of it

01:03:32.159 --> 01:03:34.798
was like I believed it.

01:03:33.838 --> 01:03:36.400
>> I believed it.

01:03:34.798 --> 01:03:37.838
>> And that that's really a credit to Joe

01:03:36.400 --> 01:03:39.680
and his like taste [clears throat] and

01:03:37.838 --> 01:03:41.519
that's why we really thought like this

01:03:39.679 --> 01:03:43.919
guy knew how to make narc. He kind of

01:03:41.519 --> 01:03:45.358
obviously understood this world and

01:03:43.920 --> 01:03:47.838
understood that it has to

01:03:45.358 --> 01:03:49.679
>> above all it has to feel real and that's

01:03:47.838 --> 01:03:51.279
why he was open to like okay whatever

01:03:49.679 --> 01:03:52.798
happens you throw in a line maybe it's

01:03:51.280 --> 01:03:54.640
good. can't get your feeling hurt if

01:03:52.798 --> 01:03:56.400
it's not, you know, but like you got to

01:03:54.639 --> 01:03:58.318
be able to take that shot and we're all

01:03:56.400 --> 01:03:59.519
down, you know, trying to spend time

01:03:58.318 --> 01:04:01.199
with people. I mean, I kind of feel for

01:03:59.519 --> 01:04:02.400
these cops, a bunch of actors descend on

01:04:01.199 --> 01:04:03.583
you and they're like, "What what kind of

01:04:02.400 --> 01:04:04.079
sweatshirt is that?" You know,

01:04:03.583 --> 01:04:05.838
[laughter]

01:04:04.079 --> 01:04:07.039
>> it was like that Michael J. Fox, James

01:04:05.838 --> 01:04:09.119
Woods [snorts] movie. Remember that

01:04:07.039 --> 01:04:11.039
movie when he I forget what it was

01:04:09.119 --> 01:04:12.960
called, but he's Michael J. Fox is an

01:04:11.039 --> 01:04:14.640
actor following around James Woods. He's

01:04:12.960 --> 01:04:16.318
he's studying him for a character and

01:04:14.639 --> 01:04:17.199
James Woods is a real like detective and

01:04:16.318 --> 01:04:18.719
he's just like,

01:04:17.199 --> 01:04:19.439
>> "Get this guy away from me." I kept

01:04:18.719 --> 01:04:20.239
thinking of that

01:04:19.440 --> 01:04:22.579
>> kind of hair gel you use.

01:04:20.239 --> 01:04:24.479
>> Yeah. Yeah. like all these questions,

01:04:22.579 --> 01:04:26.240
[laughter] you know, but they were very

01:04:24.480 --> 01:04:29.199
tolerant of us, which was which was nice

01:04:26.239 --> 01:04:31.679
and and uh and uh and really really

01:04:29.199 --> 01:04:34.078
helpful, you know, because it's all it's

01:04:31.679 --> 01:04:36.798
always details. It's always details.

01:04:34.079 --> 01:04:39.119
It's like how fastidiously do you do you

01:04:36.798 --> 01:04:40.798
kind of mind for those details? Cuz I'm

01:04:39.119 --> 01:04:42.000
I've always been convinced that like an

01:04:40.798 --> 01:04:43.440
audience,

01:04:42.000 --> 01:04:45.358
>> it's like you were saying, they don't

01:04:43.440 --> 01:04:47.679
analyze why they don't believe

01:04:45.358 --> 01:04:48.480
something. They feel it. They just don't

01:04:47.679 --> 01:04:51.279
believe it.

01:04:48.480 --> 01:04:52.880
>> And it's usually because those details

01:04:51.280 --> 01:04:54.480
are you you don't get those

01:04:52.880 --> 01:04:56.720
>> and that's the only thing like I'm not

01:04:54.480 --> 01:04:58.798
great at imagining something let's

01:04:56.719 --> 01:05:01.279
invent this everything that I've done

01:04:58.798 --> 01:05:02.559
like that I that I like is been a result

01:05:01.280 --> 01:05:04.960
of something I found to research like

01:05:02.559 --> 01:05:07.359
for the town I went down and just went

01:05:04.960 --> 01:05:08.720
through the you know all the prisons you

01:05:07.358 --> 01:05:10.798
know out there in Massachusetts federal

01:05:08.719 --> 01:05:12.798
prisons state prisons and sat down and

01:05:10.798 --> 01:05:15.358
talked to guys who robbed trucks and

01:05:12.798 --> 01:05:16.559
banks and you know kind of sometimes you

01:05:15.358 --> 01:05:18.558
know you want to know and then sat down

01:05:16.559 --> 01:05:20.559
with the FBI guys and was like what are

01:05:18.559 --> 01:05:22.480
they like and the great you know,

01:05:20.559 --> 01:05:25.519
for me is that, you know, and I'm in

01:05:22.480 --> 01:05:27.280
like uh I'm in like wet wallpap or I'm

01:05:25.519 --> 01:05:29.920
in the prison denim or whatever and I'm

01:05:27.280 --> 01:05:31.440
to some guy I said like after talking

01:05:29.920 --> 01:05:33.280
for two hours, you know, I was like,

01:05:31.440 --> 01:05:34.559
"Does anything just weird ever

01:05:33.280 --> 01:05:36.798
happened or up? Anything you

01:05:34.559 --> 01:05:39.119
remember?" The guy was like, "Yeah, one

01:05:36.798 --> 01:05:41.119
time uh you know, we were coming out of

01:05:39.119 --> 01:05:42.400
this thing, we robbed his truck and you

01:05:41.119 --> 01:05:43.760
know, we we had the mask, we got the

01:05:42.400 --> 01:05:45.358
switch car, we drove around the corner

01:05:43.760 --> 01:05:47.280
and whatever. We pull up and we get out

01:05:45.358 --> 01:05:49.838
guns and the mass hold things

01:05:47.280 --> 01:05:51.920
and we look over and it's this cop

01:05:49.838 --> 01:05:53.440
sitting there doing construction duty

01:05:51.920 --> 01:05:55.358
and I was like right then didn't even

01:05:53.440 --> 01:05:57.440
tell me the story. I was like oh I

01:05:55.358 --> 01:06:01.199
was like what happened? He goes, you

01:05:57.440 --> 01:06:02.720
know, he looked at us, we looked at him,

01:06:01.199 --> 01:06:03.038
he looked the other way.

01:06:02.719 --> 01:06:04.318
>> Whoa.

01:06:03.039 --> 01:06:05.440
>> And I was like, really? He goes, yeah,

01:06:04.318 --> 01:06:07.440
he didn't want to end up on the wall at

01:06:05.440 --> 01:06:08.000
the VFW.

01:06:07.440 --> 01:06:09.920
>> It was like

01:06:08.000 --> 01:06:12.798
>> these guys with full automatic weapons,

01:06:09.920 --> 01:06:13.519
masks on switching cars. I was like,

01:06:12.798 --> 01:06:13.759
"All right, I'm putting that in the

01:06:13.519 --> 01:06:15.838
movie."

01:06:13.760 --> 01:06:18.000
>> And it's it's in the it's a great moment

01:06:15.838 --> 01:06:19.440
in the town, like in the movie cuz you

01:06:18.000 --> 01:06:21.838
know, Rener, they all jump out of the

01:06:19.440 --> 01:06:22.400
things and then and he Oh, yeah. Here it

01:06:21.838 --> 01:06:23.519
is.

01:06:22.400 --> 01:06:24.240
>> Exactly.

01:06:23.519 --> 01:06:26.400
>> It was like

01:06:24.239 --> 01:06:29.279
>> It's great. And it's this awkward.

01:06:26.400 --> 01:06:33.358
>> They just stop and dude.

01:06:29.280 --> 01:06:34.240
>> He sees him. They see him.

01:06:33.358 --> 01:06:37.798
>> He's [clears throat] like a We

01:06:34.239 --> 01:06:37.798
have to kill this guy.

01:06:38.400 --> 01:06:44.061
>> Nope. He turns away.

01:06:40.559 --> 01:06:44.400
>> Okay. Wow.

01:06:44.061 --> 01:06:45.920
[laughter]

01:06:44.400 --> 01:06:48.960
>> It's such a great But that's straight

01:06:45.920 --> 01:06:51.119
from research. I always love that story.

01:06:48.960 --> 01:06:52.318
Um and then he and then the line is here

01:06:51.119 --> 01:06:54.720
that he put it here

01:06:52.318 --> 01:06:56.318
>> and one on the wall of BFW. Yeah. It was

01:06:54.719 --> 01:06:58.159
a great, you know, it's a great line.

01:06:56.318 --> 01:06:59.440
>> It was such a simple explanation for

01:06:58.159 --> 01:07:01.598
what why do you think what do you think

01:06:59.440 --> 01:07:03.200
he did, you know, and why? Like

01:07:01.599 --> 01:07:05.519
>> and that's exactly what it would have

01:07:03.199 --> 01:07:06.558
been like that guy next day's picture

01:07:05.519 --> 01:07:07.358
would have been up in the wall at the

01:07:06.559 --> 01:07:07.680
VFW.

01:07:07.358 --> 01:07:09.119
>> Yeah. [snorts]

01:07:07.679 --> 01:07:11.118
>> You know, and he knew it and everybody

01:07:09.119 --> 01:07:13.599
knew it. He said he didn't want to do it

01:07:11.119 --> 01:07:15.280
like that. You know, that was and that

01:07:13.599 --> 01:07:18.400
that kind of stuff is uh I don't know.

01:07:15.280 --> 01:07:20.240
It's very human human calculations and

01:07:18.400 --> 01:07:22.639
interact. I a very extreme version of

01:07:20.239 --> 01:07:24.318
it, but it also doesn't have sometimes.

01:07:22.639 --> 01:07:26.318
It's not dramatic at all, you know? It's

01:07:24.318 --> 01:07:27.679
like that was an easy decision and the

01:07:26.318 --> 01:07:29.759
guy never says anything. I didn't say

01:07:27.679 --> 01:07:32.399
anything, you know, and kind of can't

01:07:29.760 --> 01:07:34.079
really blame him, you know? It's uh

01:07:32.400 --> 01:07:36.079
>> The Town was a great movie, too,

01:07:34.079 --> 01:07:38.480
man. And I I knew a lot of people like

01:07:36.079 --> 01:07:40.798
that, you know, from boxing gyms and

01:07:38.480 --> 01:07:42.480
stuff. I I knew a guy who was a hitman

01:07:40.798 --> 01:07:44.400
for Whitey Bulier.

01:07:42.480 --> 01:07:46.318
>> I knew a guy who was a a friend of a

01:07:44.400 --> 01:07:48.798
brother of mine who went to jail for

01:07:46.318 --> 01:07:49.199
that for murder for killing people.

01:07:48.798 --> 01:07:50.318
>> Yeah.

01:07:49.199 --> 01:07:53.279
>> What town did you grow up in?

01:07:50.318 --> 01:07:54.880
>> I lived in Newton. I Yeah. I grew up in

01:07:53.280 --> 01:07:56.640
I lived in Jamaica playing for a little

01:07:54.880 --> 01:07:58.400
while and I lived in Newton, but I I

01:07:56.639 --> 01:08:00.318
spent a lot of time in Boston because I

01:07:58.400 --> 01:08:02.240
was fighting. I was mostly training. And

01:08:00.318 --> 01:08:03.759
so I was around a lot of these like very

01:08:02.239 --> 01:08:06.078
shady characters

01:08:03.760 --> 01:08:08.400
>> who were in the fighting world and a lot

01:08:06.079 --> 01:08:10.079
of them had backgrounds in crime.

01:08:08.400 --> 01:08:11.838
one of the guys that I went to that I

01:08:10.079 --> 01:08:14.240
trained with, he went to jail for a

01:08:11.838 --> 01:08:18.158
little while and then he got uh arrested

01:08:14.239 --> 01:08:20.639
because a guy got killed and they broke

01:08:18.158 --> 01:08:22.639
every bone in his body with a hammer and

01:08:20.640 --> 01:08:24.798
kept injecting him with cocaine to keep

01:08:22.640 --> 01:08:26.798
him keep him awake while they were doing

01:08:24.798 --> 01:08:28.079
it and then they cut his hands off and

01:08:26.798 --> 01:08:29.759
cut his head off. Jesus.

01:08:28.079 --> 01:08:31.119
>> And this guy that I used to train with

01:08:29.759 --> 01:08:31.759
got arrested for that.

01:08:31.119 --> 01:08:33.759
>> Jesus.

01:08:31.759 --> 01:08:37.119
>> Yeah. He didn't wind up going to jail

01:08:33.759 --> 01:08:39.039
for that. He's dead now, but he was it

01:08:37.119 --> 01:08:40.640
somehow or another at least

01:08:39.039 --> 01:08:42.000
peripherilally involved.

01:08:40.640 --> 01:08:44.798
>> Yeah. Well, I didn't do any fighting,

01:08:42.000 --> 01:08:46.000
but I I went around and found a lot of

01:08:44.798 --> 01:08:48.158
the one of the things about be, you

01:08:46.000 --> 01:08:49.759
know, being an actor, people will talk

01:08:48.158 --> 01:08:51.439
to you, you know, which is a

01:08:49.759 --> 01:08:53.039
amazing gift. Even if somebody's like,

01:08:51.439 --> 01:08:55.198
"Oh yeah, I killed guys." You know,

01:08:53.039 --> 01:08:56.479
they'll just come out and like it's kind

01:08:55.198 --> 01:08:57.759
of the rules all of a sudden don't

01:08:56.479 --> 01:08:58.718
apply. Like these guys in the prison,

01:08:57.759 --> 01:08:59.920
what the are they going to talk?

01:08:58.719 --> 01:09:02.000
You know what I mean? But they're like

01:08:59.920 --> 01:09:04.079
interested in it for whatever. And you

01:09:02.000 --> 01:09:05.759
know, so so you avail yourself of that

01:09:04.079 --> 01:09:08.158
and and then I had like, you know, we

01:09:05.759 --> 01:09:09.679
had people around that movie who

01:09:08.158 --> 01:09:12.238
everybody knew, yeah, he did that job.

01:09:09.679 --> 01:09:13.759
He he never got arrested. And so like,

01:09:12.238 --> 01:09:16.000
yeah, people, you know, meet PE, you

01:09:13.759 --> 01:09:18.640
know, and and uh and talk to him. And

01:09:16.000 --> 01:09:20.640
it's interesting because the such a good

01:09:18.640 --> 01:09:22.960
lesson for for doing this job which is

01:09:20.640 --> 01:09:25.679
that they're never how you think they're

01:09:22.960 --> 01:09:26.719
supposed to be like the murderer person,

01:09:25.679 --> 01:09:28.319
you know, there's always something a

01:09:26.719 --> 01:09:29.920
little I remember one guy was supposed

01:09:28.319 --> 01:09:31.600
to be like this really violent kind of

01:09:29.920 --> 01:09:33.520
loose cannon

01:09:31.600 --> 01:09:35.679
>> guy who supposedly had done all this

01:09:33.520 --> 01:09:38.159
stabbed and killed two people

01:09:35.679 --> 01:09:40.798
Faniel Hall and shot these guys in a in

01:09:38.158 --> 01:09:42.960
a robbery and he like shows up with his

01:09:40.798 --> 01:09:44.640
polo shirt kind of tucked in, you know,

01:09:42.960 --> 01:09:46.319
how's it going? you know, just like I

01:09:44.640 --> 01:09:47.679
never would have put this guy on

01:09:46.319 --> 01:09:48.719
killing [laughter] four people,

01:09:47.679 --> 01:09:50.480
you know what I mean? And they got to

01:09:48.719 --> 01:09:51.920
have a good time. So, I love that one

01:09:50.479 --> 01:09:54.959
movie and you're just thinking,

01:09:51.920 --> 01:09:56.719
man. Like, this is what And it's a

01:09:54.960 --> 01:09:58.800
really good lesson for like, you know,

01:09:56.719 --> 01:10:00.158
we tend to read a script and okay, this

01:09:58.800 --> 01:10:02.320
guy's the tough guy and he's going to be

01:10:00.158 --> 01:10:03.599
the it's like you work with like I have

01:10:02.319 --> 01:10:05.519
the like the opportunity to

01:10:03.600 --> 01:10:08.159
train with these Delta guys like you

01:10:05.520 --> 01:10:11.199
know, it's the most elite special forces

01:10:08.158 --> 01:10:12.479
combat operators in the world. I

01:10:11.198 --> 01:10:13.839
mean, I suppose the seals will take

01:10:12.479 --> 01:10:15.119
exception to that, but what just

01:10:13.840 --> 01:10:16.719
numerically, right? I think there's been

01:10:15.119 --> 01:10:20.158
less than 900 guys ever in the history

01:10:16.719 --> 01:10:21.600
of Delta. You meet them and it's they're

01:10:20.158 --> 01:10:22.960
not the biggest guys. They're not the

01:10:21.600 --> 01:10:24.719
toughest guys. They're not trying to

01:10:22.960 --> 01:10:28.319
be hard and, you know, they're

01:10:24.719 --> 01:10:29.600
the most relaxed at ease and it, you

01:10:28.319 --> 01:10:31.599
know, I found myself just being like

01:10:29.600 --> 01:10:33.760
finally I was like, what can I just ask

01:10:31.600 --> 01:10:35.760
what do you think makes somebody like

01:10:33.760 --> 01:10:38.159
qualify for the the Delta Force? Like

01:10:35.760 --> 01:10:41.520
what's a good Delta operator? He's like,

01:10:38.158 --> 01:10:43.039
"Uh, you know, problem solving."

01:10:41.520 --> 01:10:44.000
Problem solving? The guy goes, "Yeah,

01:10:43.039 --> 01:10:45.103
it's probably like your job." I was

01:10:44.000 --> 01:10:46.158
like, "No, let me take notice.

01:10:45.103 --> 01:10:47.600
[laughter]

01:10:46.158 --> 01:10:50.238
It's really not like my job." I

01:10:47.600 --> 01:10:51.600
appreciate it. A very big

01:10:50.238 --> 01:10:53.119
difference. He's like, "Yeah, you solve

01:10:51.600 --> 01:10:54.400
problems like trying to kill me." See,

01:10:53.119 --> 01:10:55.840
that's the thing. [laughter]

01:10:54.399 --> 01:10:58.559
But that that [snorts] was the closest

01:10:55.840 --> 01:11:00.000
insight I got to it, which was I've

01:10:58.560 --> 01:11:01.840
always kind of thought this about like a

01:11:00.000 --> 01:11:05.039
guys like like Brady or something.

01:11:01.840 --> 01:11:07.440
There's guys that just don't get tight

01:11:05.039 --> 01:11:09.279
and that they they are kind of able to

01:11:07.439 --> 01:11:10.960
problem solve when the problem is like,

01:11:09.279 --> 01:11:12.880
well, that helicopter's crashed and

01:11:10.960 --> 01:11:14.640
we're 200 miles inside Afghanistan and

01:11:12.880 --> 01:11:15.920
we're outnumbered six to one.

01:11:14.640 --> 01:11:18.239
How do you think we should get home?

01:11:15.920 --> 01:11:20.399
like just having your wits about you to

01:11:18.238 --> 01:11:22.399
make that calculation while by the way

01:11:20.399 --> 01:11:24.399
you're in a gunfight and things

01:11:22.399 --> 01:11:25.679
you know I'm sure that does make cuz

01:11:24.399 --> 01:11:27.920
those are the people where it was I'd be

01:11:25.679 --> 01:11:30.640
in a panic and I have no idea

01:11:27.920 --> 01:11:32.800
what to do and you get like attracted to

01:11:30.640 --> 01:11:34.480
the person who who's like seems to have

01:11:32.800 --> 01:11:36.000
it like hey I'm it's good we're going to

01:11:34.479 --> 01:11:38.238
be okay everybody get your we're

01:11:36.000 --> 01:11:39.920
going over here you'll just follow that

01:11:38.238 --> 01:11:41.839
guy you know what I mean

01:11:39.920 --> 01:11:43.119
>> and uh but it's a good it's not always

01:11:41.840 --> 01:11:44.239
the most

01:11:43.119 --> 01:11:46.079
>> maybe it's just because they're so

01:11:44.238 --> 01:11:47.519
confident they're not like I Like I

01:11:46.079 --> 01:11:48.960
don't need to prove that I can kick

01:11:47.520 --> 01:11:50.960
anybody's ass. I don't even get it in

01:11:48.960 --> 01:11:52.560
fights like have a weapon, you know what

01:11:50.960 --> 01:11:56.158
I mean? [laughter] It's kind of like

01:11:52.560 --> 01:11:58.640
it's it's just a it surprises me what it

01:11:56.158 --> 01:12:00.399
how those kinds of like extraordinary

01:11:58.640 --> 01:12:02.480
experiences in people or extraordinary

01:12:00.399 --> 01:12:04.238
people don't always manifest themselves

01:12:02.479 --> 01:12:06.000
in how they show up,

01:12:04.238 --> 01:12:08.718
>> right? We have caricatures in our head

01:12:06.000 --> 01:12:10.479
of what like these tough people are

01:12:08.719 --> 01:12:11.840
like. Well, you you see that about MMA

01:12:10.479 --> 01:12:13.198
fighters. Like there's a lot of MMA

01:12:11.840 --> 01:12:15.039
fighters. you meet them, they're like

01:12:13.198 --> 01:12:15.678
the sweetest, nicest, friendliest people

01:12:15.039 --> 01:12:17.920
in the world.

01:12:15.679 --> 01:12:21.039
>> I remember going to one of the events at

01:12:17.920 --> 01:12:24.960
in LA. I think it was a Staples and and

01:12:21.039 --> 01:12:26.960
I was backstage and and was talking to

01:12:24.960 --> 01:12:28.399
uh one of like the lawyers for the UFC

01:12:26.960 --> 01:12:29.840
about we were talking about Conor

01:12:28.399 --> 01:12:32.000
McGregor and he was telling me a great

01:12:29.840 --> 01:12:35.920
story about him and [snorts] this guy

01:12:32.000 --> 01:12:38.158
walks up and he's in a like chinos like

01:12:35.920 --> 01:12:40.399
khaki pants and like a blue button-up

01:12:38.158 --> 01:12:44.399
like you know kind of business shirt

01:12:40.399 --> 01:12:46.238
with spectacles and he's very small and

01:12:44.399 --> 01:12:48.559
I kind of don't really regard him and

01:12:46.238 --> 01:12:50.399
I'm still hearing this story. And then

01:12:48.560 --> 01:12:52.159
Patrick goes, "Matt, do you know Henry?"

01:12:50.399 --> 01:12:55.839
And I turn and it's Henry Cejudo. And

01:12:52.158 --> 01:12:57.599
I'm like, "This guy could wreck

01:12:55.840 --> 01:13:01.520
me, right? [laughter]

01:12:57.600 --> 01:13:03.679
Absolutely destroy me." And he

01:13:01.520 --> 01:13:04.400
and he is the guy that some dummy would

01:13:03.679 --> 01:13:05.119
try to pick on.

01:13:04.399 --> 01:13:07.359
>> Yeah. [clears throat] You know what I

01:13:05.119 --> 01:13:10.158
mean? Like he does not he's not carrying

01:13:07.359 --> 01:13:10.960
himself like he's he just is the thing,

01:13:10.158 --> 01:13:13.359
you know?

01:13:10.960 --> 01:13:14.800
>> And they find out a little bit too late.

01:13:13.359 --> 01:13:15.679
>> Yeah. Don't find that one out late.

01:13:14.800 --> 01:13:17.679
Yeah.

01:13:15.679 --> 01:13:20.399
>> Yeah. A lot of guys do,

01:13:17.679 --> 01:13:21.359
>> unfortunately. Yeah, that's uh it's uh

01:13:20.399 --> 01:13:22.799
well, they don't have to prove

01:13:21.359 --> 01:13:24.719
themselves, right? They do it all the

01:13:22.800 --> 01:13:27.039
time. The same with Delta Force guys.

01:13:24.719 --> 01:13:29.279
Like this idea like this like outwardly

01:13:27.039 --> 01:13:31.279
brash tough guy. Usually that kind of

01:13:29.279 --> 01:13:32.880
machismo and

01:13:31.279 --> 01:13:34.880
>> that's That's you're you're

01:13:32.880 --> 01:13:37.119
using that cuz you're insecure. The

01:13:34.880 --> 01:13:38.719
secure people are very calm and and

01:13:37.119 --> 01:13:40.479
genuinely very friendly.

01:13:38.719 --> 01:13:41.039
>> Really nice. Yeah, that's been my

01:13:40.479 --> 01:13:43.198
experience.

01:13:41.039 --> 01:13:44.560
>> Yeah, it's crazy, right? Beautiful, too.

01:13:43.198 --> 01:13:45.678
You know, I've kind of like

01:13:44.560 --> 01:13:47.840
>> what a great guy. And you feel like

01:13:45.679 --> 01:13:49.039
that's nice of you to be so so sweet to

01:13:47.840 --> 01:13:50.079
me cuz you obviously you don't have to

01:13:49.039 --> 01:13:51.439
be. [laughter]

01:13:50.079 --> 01:13:53.920
>> I'll just give you my watch if you

01:13:51.439 --> 01:13:56.479
wanted that.

01:13:53.920 --> 01:13:58.158
>> Yeah. No, it's it is a fascinating

01:13:56.479 --> 01:14:00.319
thing. It's like we have these ideas in

01:13:58.158 --> 01:14:02.559
our head, these caricatures, you know,

01:14:00.319 --> 01:14:04.079
of what what a a tough man is, what a

01:14:02.560 --> 01:14:04.800
good woman is, what this is, what that

01:14:04.079 --> 01:14:06.880
is. M

01:14:04.800 --> 01:14:09.199
>> as I think one of the beautiful things

01:14:06.880 --> 01:14:11.199
about film when a film is really good is

01:14:09.198 --> 01:14:13.439
you see these complex characters and it

01:14:11.198 --> 01:14:15.519
sort of like reformulates in your mind

01:14:13.439 --> 01:14:16.960
like what a person actually is.

01:14:15.520 --> 01:14:17.840
>> Yeah. It's seeing all kinds of different

01:14:16.960 --> 01:14:20.079
people. Yeah.

01:14:17.840 --> 01:14:20.800
>> You know and and Yeah. Yeah. I

01:14:20.079 --> 01:14:22.238
completely agree.

01:14:20.800 --> 01:14:25.760
>> I mean look the fundamental like

01:14:22.238 --> 01:14:29.119
challenge I think in life and is like

01:14:25.760 --> 01:14:30.800
it's like to find some humility which

01:14:29.119 --> 01:14:32.640
means actually thinking you might be

01:14:30.800 --> 01:14:34.719
wrong about the that you're pretty

01:14:32.640 --> 01:14:36.159
sure about. And it means that like you

01:14:34.719 --> 01:14:38.000
kind of have to assume somebody else

01:14:36.158 --> 01:14:40.319
might have a point, you know? It's not

01:14:38.000 --> 01:14:41.840
like just writing everybody else off who

01:14:40.319 --> 01:14:44.079
disagrees with you because him,

01:14:41.840 --> 01:14:46.079
he's an He's, you know, like

01:14:44.079 --> 01:14:49.119
those are things that actually take work

01:14:46.079 --> 01:14:51.039
to get to because the the first instinct

01:14:49.119 --> 01:14:52.559
because you just defend your idea or

01:14:51.039 --> 01:14:54.719
whatever. It's easier is to just

01:14:52.560 --> 01:14:57.520
>> that it's a zero sum game. Yeah. That

01:14:54.719 --> 01:14:58.880
that two competing ideas can't exist.

01:14:57.520 --> 01:15:01.040
that somebody can't be a good person

01:14:58.880 --> 01:15:03.199
like

01:15:01.039 --> 01:15:04.800
if you decide it's you disagree we don't

01:15:03.198 --> 01:15:06.000
believe so I don't know what about this

01:15:04.800 --> 01:15:07.679
or what about that

01:15:06.000 --> 01:15:09.679
>> but once you find yourself relying on

01:15:07.679 --> 01:15:11.920
like well I need to like zero out this

01:15:09.679 --> 01:15:12.800
person's humanity in order to defend my

01:15:11.920 --> 01:15:14.239
idea

01:15:12.800 --> 01:15:15.679
>> I think that's a pretty good indicator

01:15:14.238 --> 01:15:17.519
that like there's something wrong with

01:15:15.679 --> 01:15:18.960
the way you're thinking like because it

01:15:17.520 --> 01:15:20.640
can't be that you're right about

01:15:18.960 --> 01:15:21.520
everything and everyone else is bad who

01:15:20.640 --> 01:15:22.880
disagrees with you

01:15:21.520 --> 01:15:25.760
>> I think that was one of the most

01:15:22.880 --> 01:15:28.159
interesting things about the Sopranos is

01:15:25.760 --> 01:15:30.000
that the main character The guy that you

01:15:28.158 --> 01:15:30.319
loved was a murderer.

01:15:30.000 --> 01:15:32.319
>> Yeah.

01:15:30.319 --> 01:15:33.599
>> He was like who would murder his

01:15:32.319 --> 01:15:36.880
friends.

01:15:33.600 --> 01:15:38.320
>> He was a a complete mobster and a thug.

01:15:36.880 --> 01:15:39.920
But you really loved him.

01:15:38.319 --> 01:15:42.479
>> Loved the out of cared about. It

01:15:39.920 --> 01:15:44.960
was so complicated.

01:15:42.479 --> 01:15:46.399
My daughter doing the part that you

01:15:44.960 --> 01:15:48.399
found yourself being like, I don't I

01:15:46.399 --> 01:15:49.119
think you probably has to kill him now.

01:15:48.399 --> 01:15:51.439
I gota kill.

01:15:49.119 --> 01:15:53.198
>> That's also that's also great a great

01:15:51.439 --> 01:15:55.519
actor. Like there's a very famous story

01:15:53.198 --> 01:15:58.479
about Marlon Brando when he did street

01:15:55.520 --> 01:16:02.320
car Named Desire and Tennessee Williams

01:15:58.479 --> 01:16:04.639
who wrote it like freaked out because he

01:16:02.319 --> 01:16:06.559
was making Stanley Kowalsski he was

01:16:04.640 --> 01:16:08.640
making people empathize with Stanley

01:16:06.560 --> 01:16:10.159
Kowalsski and Tennessee Williams was

01:16:08.640 --> 01:16:12.159
like but I wrote him as a brute. He's

01:16:10.158 --> 01:16:14.960
this he was like a two-dimensional brute

01:16:12.158 --> 01:16:16.158
who just came and beat up his wife and

01:16:14.960 --> 01:16:17.600
you know and and was just and was

01:16:16.158 --> 01:16:19.920
supposed to be this kind of dark looming

01:16:17.600 --> 01:16:21.280
force over the play. But Brando was

01:16:19.920 --> 01:16:22.560
like, "No, he's a human being and I'm

01:16:21.279 --> 01:16:26.319
gonna play him like a human

01:16:22.560 --> 01:16:29.440
being and and it changed the the play."

01:16:26.319 --> 01:16:31.519
But but Williams reflects life in the

01:16:29.439 --> 01:16:32.960
real world. Everybody's the hero of

01:16:31.520 --> 01:16:34.719
their story. Everyone has the reasons

01:16:32.960 --> 01:16:36.399
for why they're doing and people don't

01:16:34.719 --> 01:16:38.399
set out to be like, I'm just going to or

01:16:36.399 --> 01:16:39.759
hurt someone or dominate the world. Like

01:16:38.399 --> 01:16:41.439
you think, well, I got to protect what I

01:16:39.760 --> 01:16:42.480
have. It's like even, you know, not

01:16:41.439 --> 01:16:44.559
bringing back to this movie, but it's

01:16:42.479 --> 01:16:45.919
like what I liked about RIP was it was

01:16:44.560 --> 01:16:47.920
kind of the slippery slope. you know

01:16:45.920 --> 01:16:49.520
that first time you take a little money

01:16:47.920 --> 01:16:51.039
and then well you know I gota cover that

01:16:49.520 --> 01:16:53.280
I don't want to go to jail and my reason

01:16:51.039 --> 01:16:55.198
why I did that but now I've told a lie

01:16:53.279 --> 01:16:57.279
now I got to cover that thing and now

01:16:55.198 --> 01:16:59.119
you have guys who both live by this code

01:16:57.279 --> 01:17:00.559
that's very hey you protect the people

01:16:59.119 --> 01:17:02.559
who are with you and you got to have

01:17:00.560 --> 01:17:04.880
this and so now it's two people

01:17:02.560 --> 01:17:06.480
are very similar like by that kind of

01:17:04.880 --> 01:17:09.199
slippery slope ultimately find

01:17:06.479 --> 01:17:11.678
themselves you know willing to kill one

01:17:09.198 --> 01:17:13.839
another uh because and it's really not I

01:17:11.679 --> 01:17:15.600
don't I don't believe in that one choice

01:17:13.840 --> 01:17:17.119
turn it's like more how do you find

01:17:15.600 --> 01:17:19.199
yourself, you dig yourself in a

01:17:17.119 --> 01:17:21.039
hole cuz you're just covering up the la

01:17:19.198 --> 01:17:23.519
trying to fix the last problem that's

01:17:21.039 --> 01:17:25.679
arisen, you know, and everybody thinks a

01:17:23.520 --> 01:17:27.440
b is of course the roots for themsel is

01:17:25.679 --> 01:17:28.800
like empathize with themselves. That's

01:17:27.439 --> 01:17:30.319
what we have to be concerned with

01:17:28.800 --> 01:17:33.360
ourselves, our needs, our families, our

01:17:30.319 --> 01:17:35.759
basic It's a hard to expect people

01:17:33.359 --> 01:17:38.238
to go like, "All right, and and and what

01:17:35.760 --> 01:17:41.360
about, you know, like what they think?"

01:17:38.238 --> 01:17:43.359
And I and I think that's I think it's a

01:17:41.359 --> 01:17:44.880
it's a much more honest evaluation of

01:17:43.359 --> 01:17:46.960
people. And it allows for like

01:17:44.880 --> 01:17:49.520
complexity and forgiveness and

01:17:46.960 --> 01:17:51.520
all the that's sort of beautiful

01:17:49.520 --> 01:17:53.120
about people like rather than this

01:17:51.520 --> 01:17:55.360
notion of like, well, we're going to be

01:17:53.119 --> 01:17:57.279
binary, good or bad, perfect or not,

01:17:55.359 --> 01:18:00.639
whatever, and any infraction then it's

01:17:57.279 --> 01:18:02.079
like permanently stains you. Right.

01:18:00.640 --> 01:18:03.920
Like we were talking about earlier about

01:18:02.079 --> 01:18:07.039
people that have been cancelled, you

01:18:03.920 --> 01:18:09.359
know, that that this idea that one thing

01:18:07.039 --> 01:18:11.039
you said or one thing you did and now

01:18:09.359 --> 01:18:12.960
we're going to exaggerate that to the

01:18:11.039 --> 01:18:13.840
fullest extent and cast you out of

01:18:12.960 --> 01:18:14.960
civilization for life

01:18:13.840 --> 01:18:16.560
>> in perpetuity. Yeah.

01:18:14.960 --> 01:18:19.520
>> It's crazy. And it's

01:18:16.560 --> 01:18:21.679
>> Yeah. I was because because I bet some

01:18:19.520 --> 01:18:25.120
of those people would have preferred to

01:18:21.679 --> 01:18:26.480
go to jail for 18 months or whatever to

01:18:25.119 --> 01:18:29.198
and and and then come out and say, "No,

01:18:26.479 --> 01:18:31.439
but I that that we can't I I paid my

01:18:29.198 --> 01:18:33.279
debt. Like, we're done. Like, can we be

01:18:31.439 --> 01:18:36.319
done?" Like, the the the thing about

01:18:33.279 --> 01:18:38.000
about that, you know, getting kind of

01:18:36.319 --> 01:18:40.079
excoriated

01:18:38.000 --> 01:18:42.479
publicly like that, it's it just never

01:18:40.079 --> 01:18:45.359
ends. And it's and it's the first thing

01:18:42.479 --> 01:18:46.718
that you know it's just it just will

01:18:45.359 --> 01:18:48.000
follow you to the grave. I think

01:18:46.719 --> 01:18:49.600
>> it's also this problem that people have

01:18:48.000 --> 01:18:51.679
with people that are in the public eye.

01:18:49.600 --> 01:18:54.159
They have this like desire to chop them

01:18:51.679 --> 01:18:55.760
down always, you know, and anybody that

01:18:54.158 --> 01:18:57.519
stumbles in the public eye. They want to

01:18:55.760 --> 01:18:59.600
destroy their life and they want to just

01:18:57.520 --> 01:19:01.440
pile on and you're not there with them.

01:18:59.600 --> 01:19:03.199
You don't feel the empathy. You're not

01:19:01.439 --> 01:19:04.960
talking to they're not a human being.

01:19:03.198 --> 01:19:05.198
It's just text on a screen.

01:19:04.960 --> 01:19:06.880
>> Right.

01:19:05.198 --> 01:19:08.399
>> Yeah. It's just like kind of like I was

01:19:06.880 --> 01:19:10.560
saying like that kind of sixth grade

01:19:08.399 --> 01:19:12.238
instinct to be like, "Oh, he's in

01:19:10.560 --> 01:19:15.120
trouble." You know, there's this we, you

01:19:12.238 --> 01:19:17.519
know, human like we have dark up

01:19:15.119 --> 01:19:20.158
instincts too sometimes to like isolate

01:19:17.520 --> 01:19:21.679
people or get joy out of someone else's

01:19:20.158 --> 01:19:23.279
they're in trouble because maybe because

01:19:21.679 --> 01:19:24.480
part of it saying, "Hey, it's not me,

01:19:23.279 --> 01:19:26.238
you know." So if you can point the

01:19:24.479 --> 01:19:27.678
finger, everyone's looking over there.

01:19:26.238 --> 01:19:28.238
We feel safer, you know?

01:19:27.679 --> 01:19:30.319
>> Right.

01:19:28.238 --> 01:19:32.799
>> But it's it's like Yeah. And to to to

01:19:30.319 --> 01:19:34.479
take any forgiveness out of it, you

01:19:32.800 --> 01:19:36.480
know, is a really up thing

01:19:34.479 --> 01:19:38.238
because then it makes it impossible a to

01:19:36.479 --> 01:19:40.158
actually go, "All right, yeah, I did

01:19:38.238 --> 01:19:42.319
that. That was wrong. I get

01:19:40.158 --> 01:19:44.079
it." You know, because it doesn't matter

01:19:42.319 --> 01:19:46.639
once you've said you've done it. You you

01:19:44.079 --> 01:19:48.399
become like an outcast. And I don't

01:19:46.640 --> 01:19:49.840
think anybody wants to think, you know,

01:19:48.399 --> 01:19:51.359
like you're the sum total of who you are

01:19:49.840 --> 01:19:52.880
is your worst moment, right?

01:19:51.359 --> 01:19:54.799
>> You know, it's sort of like

01:19:52.880 --> 01:19:56.000
>> the you know, you know, I think you want

01:19:54.800 --> 01:19:57.199
to be judged just as well. Are you

01:19:56.000 --> 01:19:58.399
capable of doing something good or

01:19:57.198 --> 01:19:59.439
something beautiful? It's not to say to

01:19:58.399 --> 01:20:01.119
forget, you know, there's people that

01:19:59.439 --> 01:20:03.119
just over and over and over again doing

01:20:01.119 --> 01:20:05.920
horrible don't care. I get it. No

01:20:03.119 --> 01:20:07.760
one's trying to like absolve that, but

01:20:05.920 --> 01:20:09.199
you remove the ability to sort of

01:20:07.760 --> 01:20:10.400
forgive people or look at them in a

01:20:09.198 --> 01:20:12.719
complicated way. Or else it's kind of

01:20:10.399 --> 01:20:14.399
one become of those things. It's like a

01:20:12.719 --> 01:20:17.119
>> get one of ours or one of them, the

01:20:14.399 --> 01:20:19.119
instinct to get like a team tribal

01:20:17.119 --> 01:20:19.519
oriented and it just becomes a sport,

01:20:19.119 --> 01:20:22.079
you know?

01:20:19.520 --> 01:20:23.679
>> Yeah. Yeah. It's also like who wants to

01:20:22.079 --> 01:20:26.238
live in a world with no forgiveness and

01:20:23.679 --> 01:20:28.640
redemption? That's crazy. Like that's

01:20:26.238 --> 01:20:29.599
just denying the very nature of human

01:20:28.640 --> 01:20:31.119
beings

01:20:29.600 --> 01:20:32.800
>> and that people do things that they

01:20:31.119 --> 01:20:35.119
regret and they do and then they become

01:20:32.800 --> 01:20:37.039
better people because of it and to

01:20:35.119 --> 01:20:38.880
>> yeah some of the people I would rely on

01:20:37.039 --> 01:20:41.198
the most like trust my kids with the

01:20:38.880 --> 01:20:43.359
most have done that they that they

01:20:41.198 --> 01:20:45.279
really regret and you know was yeah

01:20:43.359 --> 01:20:46.880
objectively wrong and then the people

01:20:45.279 --> 01:20:48.238
who've been like a I did that I

01:20:46.880 --> 01:20:49.679
whether it's like addiction I

01:20:48.238 --> 01:20:51.839
got myself down this route I did

01:20:49.679 --> 01:20:54.079
this I did this they're able to go I did

01:20:51.840 --> 01:20:56.640
it I'm sorry it's real I shouldn't have

01:20:54.079 --> 01:20:58.158
done it it was wrong that actually that

01:20:56.640 --> 01:21:00.079
those people can become someone that's

01:20:58.158 --> 01:21:02.158
very trustworthy because you're like

01:21:00.079 --> 01:21:03.600
this will say if they've

01:21:02.158 --> 01:21:05.359
done something they'll actually look at

01:21:03.600 --> 01:21:07.920
their own behavior they'll acknowledge

01:21:05.359 --> 01:21:09.439
it and then you feel you feel good and

01:21:07.920 --> 01:21:11.520
you feel much versus someone who tells

01:21:09.439 --> 01:21:12.559
you like I'm I'm no I got all I always

01:21:11.520 --> 01:21:13.920
get right everything's

01:21:12.560 --> 01:21:16.880
>> well it's like it's all it's about

01:21:13.920 --> 01:21:18.880
evolution right and and and in our own

01:21:16.880 --> 01:21:21.679
personal evolution and we're all in our

01:21:18.880 --> 01:21:23.679
on our own path towards that like the

01:21:21.679 --> 01:21:26.880
the the idea of attacking someone it's

01:21:23.679 --> 01:21:28.719
like Oh, so you you ace the test like

01:21:26.880 --> 01:21:30.000
put your pencil down like you nailed

01:21:28.719 --> 01:21:33.198
being human

01:21:30.000 --> 01:21:35.279
>> you're done that if you nail being human

01:21:33.198 --> 01:21:37.198
that's not possible because you forgot

01:21:35.279 --> 01:21:37.679
about the part about forgiveness which

01:21:37.198 --> 01:21:39.519
is a giant

01:21:37.679 --> 01:21:41.199
>> part you haven't nailed it by definition

01:21:39.520 --> 01:21:42.640
if you're out there throwing stones

01:21:41.198 --> 01:21:43.759
>> it's most of the people that I find

01:21:42.640 --> 01:21:45.679
especially when there's someone that's

01:21:43.760 --> 01:21:47.119
publicly in trouble for something most

01:21:45.679 --> 01:21:48.800
of the people that I know that have

01:21:47.119 --> 01:21:50.800
attacked people have a lot of

01:21:48.800 --> 01:21:52.159
questionable in their past and it's

01:21:50.800 --> 01:21:53.520
almost like they're trying to hide that

01:21:52.158 --> 01:21:54.960
by going on the attack. That's that

01:21:53.520 --> 01:21:56.320
thing like if I can point my finger,

01:21:54.960 --> 01:21:58.079
it's like no one's going to be

01:21:56.319 --> 01:21:59.519
>> Yeah. Oh, he's a good guy. Ben's a good

01:21:58.079 --> 01:22:00.479
guy. He's calling them out.

01:21:59.520 --> 01:22:02.320
>> Yeah, exactly.

01:22:00.479 --> 01:22:03.678
>> Meanwhile, you know,

01:22:02.319 --> 01:22:05.198
>> if you like like

01:22:03.679 --> 01:22:07.119
>> Yeah. I It's like you you were telling

01:22:05.198 --> 01:22:09.119
me to see uh wake up dead man, the

01:22:07.119 --> 01:22:10.719
knives out the third knives. It's great.

01:22:09.119 --> 01:22:12.880
And I watched I really liked it. I

01:22:10.719 --> 01:22:14.399
thought it was a really interesting like

01:22:12.880 --> 01:22:16.079
>> you know I'm not a religious guy. I

01:22:14.399 --> 01:22:18.799
don't like that's you know and yeah I'm

01:22:16.079 --> 01:22:20.238
aware of all the like okay you know

01:22:18.800 --> 01:22:21.440
there's the religion then there's people

01:22:20.238 --> 01:22:24.079
who supposed to be rational. I thought

01:22:21.439 --> 01:22:26.719
it was a really beautiful movie about

01:22:24.079 --> 01:22:28.960
like what's the role of grace in life

01:22:26.719 --> 01:22:31.119
you know and and a really honest

01:22:28.960 --> 01:22:33.600
examination of that like sitting doesn't

01:22:31.119 --> 01:22:36.079
side by side with yeah okay you don't

01:22:33.600 --> 01:22:37.920
believe that but like you and you know

01:22:36.079 --> 01:22:39.840
and it's not about like whether you're

01:22:37.920 --> 01:22:42.319
going to argue over evolution.

01:22:39.840 --> 01:22:44.000
It's about like how graceful are you in

01:22:42.319 --> 01:22:45.759
your life, you know? How much

01:22:44.000 --> 01:22:47.198
dignity can you afford other people? And

01:22:45.760 --> 01:22:49.199
are you willing to recognize and see

01:22:47.198 --> 01:22:51.599
that there's maybe something bigger than

01:22:49.198 --> 01:22:53.919
yourself and that there's a reason to to

01:22:51.600 --> 01:22:55.360
like uh to try to sort of be

01:22:53.920 --> 01:22:56.480
>> to find that grace to get better, you

01:22:55.359 --> 01:22:58.399
know? I thought it was really beautiful

01:22:56.479 --> 01:22:59.678
and kind of rare and

01:22:58.399 --> 01:23:01.279
>> uh really surprised.

01:22:59.679 --> 01:23:03.520
>> I was really surprised, too. I I kind of

01:23:01.279 --> 01:23:06.800
put it on and not, you know, not not

01:23:03.520 --> 01:23:07.440
thinking murder myster I I loved it.

01:23:06.800 --> 01:23:08.880
Yeah.

01:23:07.439 --> 01:23:10.559
>> Yeah. I loved it, too. I think it's one

01:23:08.880 --> 01:23:12.400
of the best of the three.

01:23:10.560 --> 01:23:12.960
>> It's uh my favorite. It was my favorite

01:23:12.399 --> 01:23:14.559
of the three.

01:23:12.960 --> 01:23:15.198
>> Those are great. Daniel Craig is great

01:23:14.560 --> 01:23:16.400
in that role.

01:23:15.198 --> 01:23:18.399
>> He's fantastic.

01:23:16.399 --> 01:23:21.119
>> I mean, guy goes from James Bond to that

01:23:18.399 --> 01:23:22.879
and so many other things as well. Joshua

01:23:21.119 --> 01:23:25.359
Joshua Connor that who played the

01:23:22.880 --> 01:23:26.400
priest. I because I first saw him on uh

01:23:25.359 --> 01:23:28.000
on the crown.

01:23:26.399 --> 01:23:30.479
>> Crown. Yeah, I liked him a lot.

01:23:28.000 --> 01:23:31.600
>> I Man, what an actor he is.

01:23:30.479 --> 01:23:33.599
>> Really, really good.

01:23:31.600 --> 01:23:35.520
>> How much film do you guys consume? Do

01:23:33.600 --> 01:23:38.239
you do you spend a lot of time watching

01:23:35.520 --> 01:23:39.520
films? I mean, the company depends.

01:23:38.238 --> 01:23:41.039
There's a lot like if we're working as

01:23:39.520 --> 01:23:42.400
we're watching cuts after cuts and going

01:23:41.039 --> 01:23:45.119
to the editing room, like there's a lot

01:23:42.399 --> 01:23:46.879
of kind of work around

01:23:45.119 --> 01:23:48.639
all the stuff that we have going that

01:23:46.880 --> 01:23:51.119
that that eats into a lot of time.

01:23:48.639 --> 01:23:53.279
>> I'm mostly trying to keep up with what

01:23:51.119 --> 01:23:55.359
people are doing. My issue is really

01:23:53.279 --> 01:23:56.880
that like we've kind of developed this

01:23:55.359 --> 01:23:58.399
pattern where all these sort of movies

01:23:56.880 --> 01:24:00.000
that come out and are more interesting

01:23:58.399 --> 01:24:01.279
and very like they're all jammed out at

01:24:00.000 --> 01:24:03.600
the last month of the year. And

01:24:01.279 --> 01:24:05.840
so all of a sudden you're trying to race

01:24:03.600 --> 01:24:08.880
these movies. Yeah. I got really lucky

01:24:05.840 --> 01:24:12.000
like uh recently my son you know who's

01:24:08.880 --> 01:24:13.199
13 decided he wants to like watch movies

01:24:12.000 --> 01:24:14.319
you know and I like give him like

01:24:13.198 --> 01:24:16.399
what are you we always looking

01:24:14.319 --> 01:24:18.238
at Tik Tok and like let's watch a

01:24:16.399 --> 01:24:20.158
movie and you know he's kind of blowing

01:24:18.238 --> 01:24:21.919
me off and roll his eyes and like you

01:24:20.158 --> 01:24:23.359
know I mean if you're a dad you're kind

01:24:21.920 --> 01:24:24.560
of an fundamentally like come on

01:24:23.359 --> 01:24:26.079
dad you don't know what's going on you

01:24:24.560 --> 01:24:28.880
know what I mean like he told me one

01:24:26.079 --> 01:24:30.960
time he was like dad I said let's watch

01:24:28.880 --> 01:24:32.800
this movie and I played in the trailer

01:24:30.960 --> 01:24:34.239
it was it was I can't remember what the

01:24:32.800 --> 01:24:36.079
movie was it was a good movie and the

01:24:34.238 --> 01:24:37.439
trailer was good. He just looks at it

01:24:36.079 --> 01:24:39.439
and goes, "You know what you guys ought

01:24:37.439 --> 01:24:41.547
to do? You guys ought to work with some

01:24:39.439 --> 01:24:44.559
of the TikTok editors." I was just

01:24:41.547 --> 01:24:45.840
[laughter] like, "Wow."

01:24:44.560 --> 01:24:47.600
I went and told the editors, I told

01:24:45.840 --> 01:24:50.079
Billy and Chris, I like, "Guys, I got

01:24:47.600 --> 01:24:51.360
news for you [laughter] guys." But but

01:24:50.079 --> 01:24:52.639
now he's like, "All right, let's watch

01:24:51.359 --> 01:24:54.000
like what are some movies I should

01:24:52.639 --> 01:24:55.520
watch?" He got Ladder Box. He got into

01:24:54.000 --> 01:24:57.279
that thing, you know? It's like, so I

01:24:55.520 --> 01:24:58.400
was like, so I said, "Okay, what are the

01:24:57.279 --> 01:25:00.158
great movies? I'll give you a list." I

01:24:58.399 --> 01:25:02.319
started giving him a list. They started

01:25:00.158 --> 01:25:03.679
watching them. And so, I mean, this is

01:25:02.319 --> 01:25:04.960
like heaven for me. So I was like,

01:25:03.679 --> 01:25:06.800
"Okay, what are you watching?" King of

01:25:04.960 --> 01:25:08.480
Comedy. Like last week I watched Baxi

01:25:06.800 --> 01:25:09.440
Driver, King K, all these Scorsese

01:25:08.479 --> 01:25:11.839
movies

01:25:09.439 --> 01:25:13.039
>> and it really was like, "Oh man, I I cuz

01:25:11.840 --> 01:25:14.639
in my mind I'm like, "Sure, I've seen

01:25:13.039 --> 01:25:17.439
that movie. I know it." I watched them

01:25:14.639 --> 01:25:19.119
again. It was I like seeing I realized

01:25:17.439 --> 01:25:20.559
how much better they were than I even

01:25:19.119 --> 01:25:21.760
could appreciate when I watched it when

01:25:20.560 --> 01:25:24.239
I was younger.

01:25:21.760 --> 01:25:26.239
>> And it really and it was just the most

01:25:24.238 --> 01:25:27.919
beautiful experience for me to

01:25:26.238 --> 01:25:29.439
watch with my son. Like he's taking an

01:25:27.920 --> 01:25:30.719
interest. And this is the, you know, the

01:25:29.439 --> 01:25:32.319
older two have always been a little bit

01:25:30.719 --> 01:25:33.279
like, "Yeah, dad, no. Great." But hey,

01:25:32.319 --> 01:25:34.799
you guys want to come to the premiere?

01:25:33.279 --> 01:25:36.000
No, not really. Uh, [laughter] you know

01:25:34.800 --> 01:25:37.920
what I mean? You guys want to come to

01:25:36.000 --> 01:25:39.840
the set? No, I'm good. You know,

01:25:37.920 --> 01:25:41.279
>> well, it's just too much familiarity.

01:25:39.840 --> 01:25:42.560
You know, you grew up with a dad who's a

01:25:41.279 --> 01:25:44.158
movie star. You're just like,

01:25:42.560 --> 01:25:45.520
>> the kids got in and I get it. You got to

01:25:44.158 --> 01:25:47.519
be your own person, do your thing. They

01:25:45.520 --> 01:25:49.280
have all their own and I get, you

01:25:47.520 --> 01:25:50.800
know, I never even So, I never expected

01:25:49.279 --> 01:25:52.559
it from my son and I don't know that

01:25:50.800 --> 01:25:54.079
he's going to, you know, and I wouldn't

01:25:52.560 --> 01:25:55.440
want to lean on him like, hey, get into

01:25:54.079 --> 01:25:57.039
the family business.

01:25:55.439 --> 01:25:59.198
>> Um, most of the time it's just like, you

01:25:57.039 --> 01:26:00.880
know, we go to like basketball games,

01:25:59.198 --> 01:26:03.359
baseball, all that type of stuff.

01:26:00.880 --> 01:26:06.800
Um, but it but this was a really that

01:26:03.359 --> 01:26:08.158
was like I was like so joyful, you know

01:26:06.800 --> 01:26:11.520
what I mean? To sit there and watch the

01:26:08.158 --> 01:26:12.960
movies with my my kid. I like I was like

01:26:11.520 --> 01:26:15.600
this doesn't get better. This is the

01:26:12.960 --> 01:26:17.198
happiest I may ever be in my whole life,

01:26:15.600 --> 01:26:18.880
you know, right here. Watch this movie

01:26:17.198 --> 01:26:21.119
and he's like, well, he's telling me

01:26:18.880 --> 01:26:22.960
what he thinks, you know, just like like

01:26:21.119 --> 01:26:23.679
honestly the rest of it you can

01:26:22.960 --> 01:26:24.719
keep it, you know?

01:26:23.679 --> 01:26:26.000
>> That's awesome.

01:26:24.719 --> 01:26:28.319
>> That's the best. Well, it's great that

01:26:26.000 --> 01:26:31.119
you guys still love film, you know, that

01:26:28.319 --> 01:26:32.960
it's it hasn't become just a job. It

01:26:31.119 --> 01:26:34.960
hasn't become a thing that you do that

01:26:32.960 --> 01:26:36.800
you really enjoy it and love it.

01:26:34.960 --> 01:26:38.719
>> Yeah. It was never a job. I mean, it

01:26:36.800 --> 01:26:40.639
really like it was it was like the an

01:26:38.719 --> 01:26:43.119
absolute dream from the time we were

01:26:40.639 --> 01:26:44.560
kids. We did high school theater

01:26:43.119 --> 01:26:45.279
together, you know? Like

01:26:44.560 --> 01:26:46.080
>> that's crazy.

01:26:45.279 --> 01:26:48.158
>> Yeah. Um,

01:26:46.079 --> 01:26:49.119
>> it was like we're lucky to get it and

01:26:48.158 --> 01:26:50.719
lucky to

01:26:49.119 --> 01:26:52.158
>> the whole idea that you could even the

01:26:50.719 --> 01:26:53.359
goal was like to make a living

01:26:52.158 --> 01:26:55.679
>> to not have to be like, well, I'm an

01:26:53.359 --> 01:26:57.134
actor, you know, slash a waiter,

01:26:55.679 --> 01:26:58.319
contractor, dental assistant, whatever

01:26:57.135 --> 01:27:00.400
[laughter] the it is, you know,

01:26:58.319 --> 01:27:02.238
like actually I can earn money. I can

01:27:00.399 --> 01:27:03.920
and we always figured like I don't need

01:27:02.238 --> 01:27:05.198
that much, especially if we have kids.

01:27:03.920 --> 01:27:06.639
Yeah. You know, okay, we can make a

01:27:05.198 --> 01:27:08.158
living or it's, you know, maybe it's

01:27:06.639 --> 01:27:09.359
going to be dinner theater or

01:27:08.158 --> 01:27:09.759
maybe it's going to be rent. Maybe it's

01:27:09.359 --> 01:27:11.519
going to be

01:27:09.760 --> 01:27:13.119
>> there'll be a job somewhere that we can

01:27:11.520 --> 01:27:15.280
find where we can do this and keep doing

01:27:13.119 --> 01:27:17.359
it. Yeah. Well, there's something that I

01:27:15.279 --> 01:27:19.439
mean, I love when people love things. I

01:27:17.359 --> 01:27:22.799
I I spend time on YouTube watching

01:27:19.439 --> 01:27:24.879
people like u fix watches, you know,

01:27:22.800 --> 01:27:26.880
like I I don't know why, but I I love

01:27:24.880 --> 01:27:28.719
when people make furniture. I love I

01:27:26.880 --> 01:27:30.719
love watching people do things that they

01:27:28.719 --> 01:27:33.039
really love that they're invested in. I

01:27:30.719 --> 01:27:35.119
think we all have that thing in us where

01:27:33.039 --> 01:27:36.719
we see someone who's got a passion for

01:27:35.119 --> 01:27:38.238
something, someone who really loves it.

01:27:36.719 --> 01:27:40.480
And that's what everybody really wants

01:27:38.238 --> 01:27:42.079
in life, to be lost in the thing you

01:27:40.479 --> 01:27:43.519
love, to have a purpose.

01:27:42.079 --> 01:27:45.439
>> And it's beautiful.

01:27:43.520 --> 01:27:46.320
Watching someone else with true purpose

01:27:45.439 --> 01:27:48.079
is

01:27:46.319 --> 01:27:49.679
>> very it's hypnotic. It reminds me of Joe

01:27:48.079 --> 01:27:50.639
versus the volcano where he goes in to

01:27:49.679 --> 01:27:52.880
buy luggage.

01:27:50.639 --> 01:27:55.760
>> You like luggage, sir? He's like, uh, he

01:27:52.880 --> 01:27:56.960
was luggage is the central preoccupation

01:27:55.760 --> 01:27:58.560
of my life.

01:27:56.960 --> 01:27:59.520
>> Guy's a luggage salesman and he

01:27:58.560 --> 01:28:01.760
loves

01:27:59.520 --> 01:28:03.300
>> nothing more than luggage.

01:28:01.760 --> 01:28:04.560
And it's the greatest scene. I

01:28:03.300 --> 01:28:06.079
[laughter] asked Tom Hanks about that

01:28:04.560 --> 01:28:07.280
when I did Saving Private Ryan. I was

01:28:06.079 --> 01:28:08.719
like, "Can you tell me about that

01:28:07.279 --> 01:28:10.238
scene?" Cuz we love this scene so much.

01:28:08.719 --> 01:28:11.840
And he go and he named the actor. He was

01:28:10.238 --> 01:28:13.519
a Broadway actor, I guess. the guy he

01:28:11.840 --> 01:28:15.520
came in he worked for like one day in

01:28:13.520 --> 01:28:17.280
this scene and he's so good in that

01:28:15.520 --> 01:28:19.120
movie and then at the very end he's

01:28:17.279 --> 01:28:20.960
showing him all the luggage and Tom

01:28:19.119 --> 01:28:22.559
Hanks has unlimited money to spend he

01:28:20.960 --> 01:28:24.158
thinks he's dying and so he basically

01:28:22.560 --> 01:28:25.600
goes like well what's the best luggage

01:28:24.158 --> 01:28:28.000
and he goes well if you know and he

01:28:25.600 --> 01:28:29.440
opens if I had the means sir and he

01:28:28.000 --> 01:28:31.279
opens up this thing and there's this

01:28:29.439 --> 01:28:33.839
trunk and it's like this music plays and

01:28:31.279 --> 01:28:35.119
he opens it and Tom Hanks is like

01:28:33.840 --> 01:28:36.480
>> I'll take two of them [clears throat] he

01:28:35.119 --> 01:28:39.840
goes [laughter] may you live to be a

01:28:36.479 --> 01:28:41.935
thousand years old

01:28:39.840 --> 01:28:42.400
the greatest day of his

01:28:41.935 --> 01:28:44.079
>> [laughter]

01:28:42.399 --> 01:28:45.920
>> Oh god,

01:28:44.079 --> 01:28:48.079
>> that's amazing. You guys have been in

01:28:45.920 --> 01:28:50.399
some bangers, man.

01:28:48.079 --> 01:28:51.600
>> Saving Private Ryan. That opening film,

01:28:50.399 --> 01:28:52.479
The Storming of the Beach.

01:28:51.600 --> 01:28:54.880
>> Unbelievable.

01:28:52.479 --> 01:28:56.799
>> That might be the the most realistic

01:28:54.880 --> 01:28:58.639
depiction of war that's ever been made.

01:28:56.800 --> 01:29:00.239
>> So, I remember reading the script and

01:28:58.639 --> 01:29:01.520
there was all this dialogue, all this

01:29:00.238 --> 01:29:03.198
stuff that was written. I came late

01:29:01.520 --> 01:29:04.639
because I'm only in the he shot it

01:29:03.198 --> 01:29:06.559
chronologically and I'm only in the

01:29:04.639 --> 01:29:10.000
last, you know, the last act of the

01:29:06.560 --> 01:29:12.880
movie basically. and and uh and he told

01:29:10.000 --> 01:29:14.399
me on set I was saying how I go how did

01:29:12.880 --> 01:29:16.719
it go the beginning go you know there's

01:29:14.399 --> 01:29:19.759
that all that dialogue with them on the

01:29:16.719 --> 01:29:22.800
boat coming in and and Stephen goes he

01:29:19.760 --> 01:29:25.440
just goes I cut I cut all of that out he

01:29:22.800 --> 01:29:27.520
goes he goes no talking for the first 27

01:29:25.439 --> 01:29:29.439
minutes of this movie

01:29:27.520 --> 01:29:30.560
>> and that was when I was like oh my god

01:29:29.439 --> 01:29:31.919
this movie is going to be

01:29:30.560 --> 01:29:33.520
>> un

01:29:31.920 --> 01:29:34.960
>> I think Tom says like I'll see you on

01:29:33.520 --> 01:29:35.679
the beach or something he scre you know

01:29:34.960 --> 01:29:37.439
guys are puking

01:29:35.679 --> 01:29:38.800
>> look at the man next to Yeah, remember

01:29:37.439 --> 01:29:40.559
he's not going to live to that. That was

01:29:38.800 --> 01:29:42.159
the script, right? Remember that? It was

01:29:40.560 --> 01:29:43.760
it was it was look at the man next to

01:29:42.158 --> 01:29:44.879
you, he won't live. You know, you're

01:29:43.760 --> 01:29:46.960
like, "Two out of three of you are going

01:29:44.880 --> 01:29:48.719
to die. So, look at to your left, look

01:29:46.960 --> 01:29:50.079
to your right, and feel bad for those

01:29:48.719 --> 01:29:51.039
two sons of cuz they're not

01:29:50.079 --> 01:29:53.119
going to make it." You know, it was

01:29:51.039 --> 01:29:54.479
stuff like that. And Stephen's just

01:29:53.119 --> 01:29:57.198
like, "Nope.

01:29:54.479 --> 01:29:58.638
>> No, no. These guys are puking. They're

01:29:57.198 --> 01:30:00.719
It's like the things up. You could just

01:29:58.639 --> 01:30:01.920
hear,

01:30:00.719 --> 01:30:04.319
you know, and it's just like and then

01:30:01.920 --> 01:30:07.600
just boom, and you're into it." And also

01:30:04.319 --> 01:30:10.880
they did this incredible like cinema

01:30:07.600 --> 01:30:13.440
changing open the shutter all the way

01:30:10.880 --> 01:30:14.639
motion blur skip the the bleach process

01:30:13.439 --> 01:30:17.198
in developing the film.

01:30:14.639 --> 01:30:19.359
>> I don't and I don't know if they're

01:30:17.198 --> 01:30:21.039
going to 22 or 23 frames anywhere in

01:30:19.359 --> 01:30:24.000
there maybe. But I I I just remember

01:30:21.039 --> 01:30:25.359
maybe it's just the open shutters just

01:30:24.000 --> 01:30:26.800
yeah it just means that instead of like

01:30:25.359 --> 01:30:28.479
the motion blur is what makes something

01:30:26.800 --> 01:30:30.400
that like moves across the frame

01:30:28.479 --> 01:30:32.000
quickly. If you look at each frame, it's

01:30:30.399 --> 01:30:34.158
like a blurred thing. And when you roll

01:30:32.000 --> 01:30:36.639
those 24 frames, it gives you this the

01:30:34.158 --> 01:30:38.559
illusion that it moves across fluidly.

01:30:36.639 --> 01:30:40.400
And if you basically open the shutter up

01:30:38.560 --> 01:30:42.560
so you get much more light. Each frame

01:30:40.399 --> 01:30:43.920
takes a super sharp picture. And when

01:30:42.560 --> 01:30:45.520
you run those together, like the piece

01:30:43.920 --> 01:30:47.679
of dust goes,

01:30:45.520 --> 01:30:49.040
>> and so the mortar explosions are going

01:30:47.679 --> 01:30:50.719
and it and you get that feeling that

01:30:49.039 --> 01:30:52.479
you're adrenalized and you're seeing,

01:30:50.719 --> 01:30:55.119
you know what I mean? And it's just and

01:30:52.479 --> 01:30:57.198
nobody had ever done it. just the master

01:30:55.119 --> 01:30:59.279
of the thing, understood how to use the

01:30:57.198 --> 01:30:59.839
tools and combined with a great idea and

01:30:59.279 --> 01:31:01.439
it's

01:30:59.840 --> 01:31:02.960
>> that's just masterful. Like that's just

01:31:01.439 --> 01:31:04.399
how you do it. There's nobody who

01:31:02.960 --> 01:31:06.719
directs movies who doesn't go ah it's

01:31:04.399 --> 01:31:07.599
Spielberg, you know, it's that's how you

01:31:06.719 --> 01:31:09.520
do it.

01:31:07.600 --> 01:31:11.840
>> It's just like you say, one of those

01:31:09.520 --> 01:31:14.639
things a guy that's passionate and also,

01:31:11.840 --> 01:31:16.880
>> you know, caring about something, you

01:31:14.639 --> 01:31:18.319
know, it's that that to with that much

01:31:16.880 --> 01:31:21.119
passion is kind of connected to

01:31:18.319 --> 01:31:23.599
greatness. Yeah. And it's I think why we

01:31:21.119 --> 01:31:26.399
love to see that whe you know sports

01:31:23.600 --> 01:31:28.239
you know fighting or whatever it

01:31:26.399 --> 01:31:31.519
is there's something that makes you kind

01:31:28.238 --> 01:31:33.279
of love being alive and also love that

01:31:31.520 --> 01:31:34.800
that person when you go like when

01:31:33.279 --> 01:31:36.800
you see Michael Jordan like that was

01:31:34.800 --> 01:31:38.239
that whole movie that we did airs really

01:31:36.800 --> 01:31:40.000
all about like what does it mean to be

01:31:38.238 --> 01:31:42.638
great and how does it like touch

01:31:40.000 --> 01:31:44.399
everybody and change everybody and make

01:31:42.639 --> 01:31:47.679
people want to improve their own

01:31:44.399 --> 01:31:50.079
lives because somebody's just better at

01:31:47.679 --> 01:31:50.719
at that thing than anybody else in the

01:31:50.079 --> 01:31:51.119
world.

01:31:50.719 --> 01:31:53.359
>> Yeah.

01:31:51.119 --> 01:31:55.039
>> It's it's trans it's fixing you know I

01:31:53.359 --> 01:31:57.439
mean I find that

01:31:55.039 --> 01:31:59.039
>> really fascinating like I you know

01:31:57.439 --> 01:32:00.879
people who are great at something and

01:31:59.039 --> 01:32:02.238
the mystery of like well what is that

01:32:00.880 --> 01:32:03.760
like and what does that do to your life

01:32:02.238 --> 01:32:04.799
and how did you get that way and what

01:32:03.760 --> 01:32:06.719
does it take you know

01:32:04.800 --> 01:32:08.159
>> and [snorts] what's the cost

01:32:06.719 --> 01:32:09.840
>> because to truly be great at something

01:32:08.158 --> 01:32:12.879
you have to kind of almost abandon

01:32:09.840 --> 01:32:16.400
everything. I I've seen that in various

01:32:12.880 --> 01:32:18.800
ways like in that kind of just empirical

01:32:16.399 --> 01:32:20.479
personal study. I haven't seen anybody

01:32:18.800 --> 01:32:22.079
who I think like qualifies for that who

01:32:20.479 --> 01:32:23.359
who didn't also seem to be really

01:32:22.079 --> 01:32:24.559
suffering 100%

01:32:23.359 --> 01:32:26.639
>> you know and you're like damn you should

01:32:24.560 --> 01:32:28.000
be so happy you're the greatest you and

01:32:26.639 --> 01:32:29.840
you know interviewers always how do you

01:32:28.000 --> 01:32:31.520
feel right now and there's that sense

01:32:29.840 --> 01:32:33.760
that like either it's never finished or

01:32:31.520 --> 01:32:36.159
it's never enough or they can't enjoy it

01:32:33.760 --> 01:32:37.520
or they're car it's that line we put in

01:32:36.158 --> 01:32:38.960
air where it's like and you have to be

01:32:37.520 --> 01:32:40.960
that thing to be that thing

01:32:38.960 --> 01:32:41.920
>> you know like it's a kind of a burden

01:32:40.960 --> 01:32:42.719
too in a way

01:32:41.920 --> 01:32:44.960
>> 100%

01:32:42.719 --> 01:32:46.960
>> and I just see that and that's why we we

01:32:44.960 --> 01:32:49.119
want these heroes and people who are

01:32:46.960 --> 01:32:50.399
great to I don't know, you know,

01:32:49.119 --> 01:32:51.760
flourish and have their life and have it

01:32:50.399 --> 01:32:53.839
all in hand. Like there's all this

01:32:51.760 --> 01:32:57.039
tragedy and all this stuff that happens

01:32:53.840 --> 01:32:58.800
too. And I I it's yeah that's like you

01:32:57.039 --> 01:33:00.399
say there seems to be a real cost.

01:32:58.800 --> 01:33:02.000
>> Well, there's always a massive cost in

01:33:00.399 --> 01:33:03.359
personal relationships because there's

01:33:02.000 --> 01:33:05.520
no way you have the time for other

01:33:03.359 --> 01:33:07.920
things. And the obsession that you have

01:33:05.520 --> 01:33:10.320
to be the best at something, you have to

01:33:07.920 --> 01:33:11.920
abandon almost all your concern for

01:33:10.319 --> 01:33:14.319
everything else. You have to have this

01:33:11.920 --> 01:33:16.399
single-minded focus and that comes with

01:33:14.319 --> 01:33:18.559
a cost for the rest of your life because

01:33:16.399 --> 01:33:19.519
you damage relationships. You feel like

01:33:18.560 --> 01:33:20.880
a piece of

01:33:19.520 --> 01:33:22.400
>> and you see that up close and like

01:33:20.880 --> 01:33:23.760
that's not admirable, right?

01:33:22.399 --> 01:33:26.079
>> You don't give a about anybody

01:33:23.760 --> 01:33:26.800
else. No, I do. I just care about this

01:33:26.079 --> 01:33:28.639
more.

01:33:26.800 --> 01:33:30.400
>> You know, it's like so imagine that

01:33:28.639 --> 01:33:32.079
you're making the sacrifices and it's

01:33:30.399 --> 01:33:33.439
causing injury to people and you know it

01:33:32.079 --> 01:33:34.319
and you don't want to hurt them but you

01:33:33.439 --> 01:33:35.839
can't help it

01:33:34.319 --> 01:33:36.799
>> and you're getting rewarded for it. You

01:33:35.840 --> 01:33:38.319
know, it's

01:33:36.800 --> 01:33:40.079
>> it's complicated. Yeah. That's

01:33:38.319 --> 01:33:41.920
>> it's crazy because you inspire all these

01:33:40.079 --> 01:33:43.679
people that don't know you and you ruin

01:33:41.920 --> 01:33:44.399
all your relationship. [laughter]

01:33:43.679 --> 01:33:45.440
>> Right. That's right.

01:33:44.399 --> 01:33:46.238
>> Maybe that's why I say don't meet your

01:33:45.439 --> 01:33:47.839
heroes.

01:33:46.238 --> 01:33:49.439
>> Yeah. Exactly.

01:33:47.840 --> 01:33:50.319
>> There's something to it, man. There

01:33:49.439 --> 01:33:53.119
really is.

01:33:50.319 --> 01:33:56.000
>> But it's just we all grow from it.

01:33:53.119 --> 01:33:58.399
There's a fuel to watching greatness.

01:33:56.000 --> 01:34:00.800
>> There's a thing that that hits you and

01:33:58.399 --> 01:34:02.399
lights you up where you want to do more.

01:34:00.800 --> 01:34:04.000
You want to be better. you want to

01:34:02.399 --> 01:34:06.399
whatever it is that you can do, whatever

01:34:04.000 --> 01:34:08.719
it is you do do, you become more whether

01:34:06.399 --> 01:34:11.198
it's a great game, a winning touchdown,

01:34:08.719 --> 01:34:13.600
whether it's a great film, a great song.

01:34:11.198 --> 01:34:15.678
Yeah. It lights you up and it it's the

01:34:13.600 --> 01:34:18.159
fuel that we all live off of that

01:34:15.679 --> 01:34:19.600
consumes that like we consume to make

01:34:18.158 --> 01:34:20.719
our culture move forward.

01:34:19.600 --> 01:34:22.480
>> Yeah.

01:34:20.719 --> 01:34:24.079
>> There's like a sacrificial element to

01:34:22.479 --> 01:34:25.919
it, the people that do it and we all

01:34:24.079 --> 01:34:27.119
feed off of it, you know, and it feels

01:34:25.920 --> 01:34:28.639
like, well, that's the person that

01:34:27.119 --> 01:34:31.359
doesn't get enough out of it, you know?

01:34:28.639 --> 01:34:33.440
>> Right. Right. But in great film, I mean,

01:34:31.359 --> 01:34:35.920
how many lives have been changed by

01:34:33.439 --> 01:34:37.599
decisions made after great films? Like

01:34:35.920 --> 01:34:39.039
when I was a kid, I think I was like

01:34:37.600 --> 01:34:41.039
seven or eight or something when Rocky

01:34:39.039 --> 01:34:42.880
came out and I

01:34:41.039 --> 01:34:44.154
>> I saw it and immediately ran around the

01:34:42.880 --> 01:34:44.960
block. I've never won in my life.

01:34:44.154 --> 01:34:47.759
[laughter]

01:34:44.960 --> 01:34:49.119
Like I was eating raw eggs. I was like

01:34:47.760 --> 01:34:51.520
I'm like this is going to change my

01:34:49.119 --> 01:34:53.519
life. Like it it there's things that

01:34:51.520 --> 01:34:55.199
happen when you see something truly

01:34:53.520 --> 01:34:56.800
great that it makes you want to be

01:34:55.198 --> 01:34:59.678
better as a human being.

01:34:56.800 --> 01:35:01.279
I remember where I was when I saw Denzel

01:34:59.679 --> 01:35:03.440
Washington play Malcolm X. Went to the

01:35:01.279 --> 01:35:05.679
movie, watched that movie and I remember

01:35:03.439 --> 01:35:06.960
leaving I was 19 or thinking I want to

01:35:05.679 --> 01:35:09.440
be a better man.

01:35:06.960 --> 01:35:11.198
>> I thought that in my mind, you know,

01:35:09.439 --> 01:35:13.279
because of what I had seen

01:35:11.198 --> 01:35:14.719
>> this actor do and this per and the way,

01:35:13.279 --> 01:35:16.399
you know, that was the only real

01:35:14.719 --> 01:35:18.560
conscious thought I had. But I remember

01:35:16.399 --> 01:35:20.879
having it and and kind of being

01:35:18.560 --> 01:35:23.120
surprised by it, you know, and it does

01:35:20.880 --> 01:35:24.800
it it it that can, you know, it's

01:35:23.119 --> 01:35:27.439
really touched me, you know, a lot of

01:35:24.800 --> 01:35:29.520
people's work and and that's why

01:35:27.439 --> 01:35:31.279
you get that like,

01:35:29.520 --> 01:35:32.560
>> you know, you you you see people you

01:35:31.279 --> 01:35:35.279
want to let them know, you know what I

01:35:32.560 --> 01:35:36.480
mean? And tell them and um I I always

01:35:35.279 --> 01:35:37.359
think people come to go, "Hey, I love

01:35:36.479 --> 01:35:38.000
that movie." I always feel like, "Ah,

01:35:37.359 --> 01:35:40.559
you don't have to say that." You know

01:35:38.000 --> 01:35:43.359
what I mean? Right. uh it makes me kind

01:35:40.560 --> 01:35:45.679
of uncomfortable and I I don't ever like

01:35:43.359 --> 01:35:47.679
put myself in with those figures who I

01:35:45.679 --> 01:35:50.000
think are like no but there's these

01:35:47.679 --> 01:35:54.079
these towering giants who have done this

01:35:50.000 --> 01:35:56.000
you know I don't know it's uh it's not

01:35:54.079 --> 01:35:57.519
it's it's it's I finally kind of arrived

01:35:56.000 --> 01:35:59.279
to a place where I was like it's always

01:35:57.520 --> 01:36:01.199
uncomfortable oh I saw hunting it made

01:35:59.279 --> 01:36:03.119
me want to go out to Hollywood write a

01:36:01.198 --> 01:36:07.759
script and I think oh I [laughter]

01:36:03.119 --> 01:36:09.519
go you know what I mean like man

01:36:07.760 --> 01:36:11.199
a certain point I fig Okay, you know

01:36:09.520 --> 01:36:12.080
what? Whatever it is, like great. That's

01:36:11.198 --> 01:36:14.000
that's

01:36:12.079 --> 01:36:15.679
>> the cost of your fame, you know, that

01:36:14.000 --> 01:36:16.639
you have to there's going to be a bunch

01:36:15.679 --> 01:36:17.920
of people that are going to come up to

01:36:16.639 --> 01:36:20.719
you and then want to say those things to

01:36:17.920 --> 01:36:23.679
you and like the wanting them to say

01:36:20.719 --> 01:36:26.000
those things to you is the opposite of

01:36:23.679 --> 01:36:26.480
the mindset that you need to make those

01:36:26.000 --> 01:36:27.279
things.

01:36:26.479 --> 01:36:29.279
>> Exactly. Exactly. [laughter]

01:36:27.279 --> 01:36:30.800
>> Which is is so counterintuitive. You

01:36:29.279 --> 01:36:32.079
think like once you become really

01:36:30.800 --> 01:36:33.360
successful and you make a bunch of great

01:36:32.079 --> 01:36:34.399
things, it's going to be awesome having

01:36:33.359 --> 01:36:36.158
all these people come up to you like,

01:36:34.399 --> 01:36:38.319
"No, no, no. I'm doing something else

01:36:36.158 --> 01:36:39.839
right now. And I can't be all wrapped up

01:36:38.319 --> 01:36:40.719
in the fact that I'm changing your

01:36:39.840 --> 01:36:42.880
[laughter] life.

01:36:40.719 --> 01:36:44.560
>> And also, I can't be satisfied or take

01:36:42.880 --> 01:36:46.560
any joy in that cuz I I don't

01:36:44.560 --> 01:36:47.280
think I'm good enough. I need to

01:36:46.560 --> 01:36:49.520
You know what I mean?

01:36:47.279 --> 01:36:51.840
>> Right. Never satisfied. Yeah. You can't.

01:36:49.520 --> 01:36:53.119
And that's the the darkness of trying to

01:36:51.840 --> 01:36:53.760
do something great. You'll never be

01:36:53.118 --> 01:36:55.439
satisfied.

01:36:53.760 --> 01:36:56.800
>> You see it in a lot of the fighters, the

01:36:55.439 --> 01:36:57.439
same kind of thing. The great great

01:36:56.800 --> 01:36:59.199
fighter.

01:36:57.439 --> 01:37:01.519
>> Well, also fighters have a very small

01:36:59.198 --> 01:37:03.118
window of greatness. There's there's

01:37:01.520 --> 01:37:05.760
only like a certain amount of years we

01:37:03.118 --> 01:37:07.439
can burn the RPMs at at the red line and

01:37:05.760 --> 01:37:08.400
then eventually the knees go, the back

01:37:07.439 --> 01:37:09.919
goes, you start.

01:37:08.399 --> 01:37:10.399
>> Is it earlier than other sports? It must

01:37:09.920 --> 01:37:13.039
be. Yeah.

01:37:10.399 --> 01:37:14.719
>> Yes, I think so because like Tom Brady

01:37:13.039 --> 01:37:16.399
is still elite. I bet he could probably

01:37:14.719 --> 01:37:18.079
play football right now. I bet he You

01:37:16.399 --> 01:37:20.719
know what? How old is Tom now? 49.

01:37:18.079 --> 01:37:22.158
>> Probably 47 or eight now probably.

01:37:20.719 --> 01:37:23.920
>> I bet he could still play, you know.

01:37:22.158 --> 01:37:25.519
>> Yeah. I mean, but that's a Yeah, I mean

01:37:23.920 --> 01:37:27.359
that's a very specific skill position

01:37:25.520 --> 01:37:30.080
and the way he played it he you know.

01:37:27.359 --> 01:37:31.198
>> Right. But running back No. Right. But

01:37:30.079 --> 01:37:33.439
at cornerback,

01:37:31.198 --> 01:37:36.399
>> the elite levels of MMA, especially with

01:37:33.439 --> 01:37:39.839
USADA testing and, you know, and now uh

01:37:36.399 --> 01:37:41.279
drug-free sport testing when they are

01:37:39.840 --> 01:37:43.119
making sure that people aren't on

01:37:41.279 --> 01:37:44.319
testosterone and growth hormone, all

01:37:43.118 --> 01:37:46.639
these different things like you have

01:37:44.319 --> 01:37:48.960
nine years. You have nine years at peak

01:37:46.639 --> 01:37:50.560
performance. That's legitimate. Like,

01:37:48.960 --> 01:37:52.639
>> how long's Jon Jones been going?

01:37:50.560 --> 01:37:54.639
>> Jon Jones is a freak of all freaks cuz

01:37:52.639 --> 01:37:56.400
Jon Jones beat Daniel Cormier when he

01:37:54.639 --> 01:37:58.480
was on Coke. That was one of the funny

01:37:56.399 --> 01:38:00.238
things he said in the uh in the press

01:37:58.479 --> 01:38:01.678
conference for the rematch. Daniel was

01:38:00.238 --> 01:38:05.297
talking He goes, "I beat you when

01:38:01.679 --> 01:38:05.297
I was on Coke." [laughter]

01:38:07.920 --> 01:38:12.800
>> I mean, he was getting arrested. He was

01:38:10.560 --> 01:38:15.440
partying for when he fought uh

01:38:12.800 --> 01:38:18.320
Gustiffson. He beat Gustoson and he

01:38:15.439 --> 01:38:19.678
didn't train at all. I talked to his

01:38:18.319 --> 01:38:21.198
trainer. He's like, "He didn't even show

01:38:19.679 --> 01:38:22.800
up at the gym. He was never

01:38:21.198 --> 01:38:24.158
there. He was never training. He could

01:38:22.800 --> 01:38:26.560
just show up and beat everybody's ass."

01:38:24.158 --> 01:38:28.238
I saw a thing uh on my Instagram feed of

01:38:26.560 --> 01:38:31.119
a fighter and I I don't know who it was,

01:38:28.238 --> 01:38:33.678
but he was a heavyweight and he goes, "I

01:38:31.118 --> 01:38:36.719
had the chance to spar with Jon Jones to

01:38:33.679 --> 01:38:38.639
to work with Jon Jones." And he goes, "I

01:38:36.719 --> 01:38:40.239
you know, I I knew about it months ahead

01:38:38.639 --> 01:38:42.400
of time." He goes, "I got every my

01:38:40.238 --> 01:38:44.559
nutrition, everything was absolutely

01:38:42.399 --> 01:38:46.000
flawless. I got, you know, my sleep,

01:38:44.560 --> 01:38:47.760
everything was on." He goes, "I show up

01:38:46.000 --> 01:38:50.079
at the gym that morning." He goes,

01:38:47.760 --> 01:38:52.239
>> it's me and five other guys. He goes, he

01:38:50.079 --> 01:38:54.319
comes in, I think he went to sleep at 4

01:38:52.238 --> 01:38:56.238
in the morning or something. out and he

01:38:54.319 --> 01:38:57.439
goes he ran through all six.

01:38:56.238 --> 01:38:58.952
>> That's my buddy Brennan Shaw.

01:38:57.439 --> 01:39:00.960
>> Is that who it was? Okay. Yeah.

01:38:58.953 --> 01:39:02.400
[laughter] It was the funniest story.

01:39:00.960 --> 01:39:05.520
And he goes and then I just knew, you

01:39:02.399 --> 01:39:07.759
know, like that's that's a level like

01:39:05.520 --> 01:39:10.719
but imagine being that elite

01:39:07.760 --> 01:39:12.480
>> and and realizing there's another level.

01:39:10.719 --> 01:39:13.920
>> Yeah. Oh yeah. Brendan was a top 10

01:39:12.479 --> 01:39:15.279
heavyweight and John wasn't even a

01:39:13.920 --> 01:39:16.158
heavyweight. John was a light

01:39:15.279 --> 01:39:18.880
heavyweight.

01:39:16.158 --> 01:39:20.479
>> It was a lower weight class and he just

01:39:18.880 --> 01:39:22.533
beat everybody's ass. And he said this

01:39:20.479 --> 01:39:23.759
is his warm-up.

01:39:22.533 --> 01:39:25.760
>> [laughter]

01:39:23.760 --> 01:39:27.600
>> He's just kidding. They just

01:39:25.760 --> 01:39:30.239
everybody up. I mean, he has a unique

01:39:27.600 --> 01:39:32.480
aptitude for MMA, but also he had two

01:39:30.238 --> 01:39:33.919
brothers that were super athletes. Yeah.

01:39:32.479 --> 01:39:35.919
Played for the Patriots and Arthur.

01:39:33.920 --> 01:39:37.118
>> And so, these guys are super athletes.

01:39:35.920 --> 01:39:38.880
And so, they're beating the out of

01:39:37.118 --> 01:39:41.198
each other all the time. So, they're

01:39:38.880 --> 01:39:43.279
like constantly in competition with

01:39:41.198 --> 01:39:44.158
elite athletes from the time he was a

01:39:43.279 --> 01:39:46.479
child. Yeah.

01:39:44.158 --> 01:39:49.519
>> So, he was just so tuned into

01:39:46.479 --> 01:39:52.158
competition and he he so intelligent

01:39:49.520 --> 01:39:54.080
like his fight IQ was above and beyond

01:39:52.158 --> 01:39:54.879
everyone's and he would study tape

01:39:54.079 --> 01:39:57.600
meticulously.

01:39:54.880 --> 01:39:59.920
>> Well, that that that spinning kick that

01:39:57.600 --> 01:40:01.679
he did to that

01:39:59.920 --> 01:40:03.679
where he where he said he

01:40:01.679 --> 01:40:05.840
>> and I think he thanked his taekwond do

01:40:03.679 --> 01:40:08.480
coach and he said he had been working on

01:40:05.840 --> 01:40:10.319
this one specific kick from both sides.

01:40:08.479 --> 01:40:13.759
>> Yeah. because of something he saw in the

01:40:10.319 --> 01:40:17.118
tape. And he and he got it off and hit

01:40:13.760 --> 01:40:18.719
this guy so hard, not even on not even

01:40:17.118 --> 01:40:20.559
on his liver side. He hit him on the

01:40:18.719 --> 01:40:22.800
other side and you see it shutter

01:40:20.560 --> 01:40:25.679
through his entire like organ structure.

01:40:22.800 --> 01:40:27.440
>> Yeah. He his heel was deep into his body

01:40:25.679 --> 01:40:30.480
cavity like all the way up to his

01:40:27.439 --> 01:40:34.319
gnarly like and but he had but

01:40:30.479 --> 01:40:36.319
he he he just practice this one specific

01:40:34.319 --> 01:40:38.960
>> and he was like and he even said he goes

01:40:36.319 --> 01:40:40.719
it is a devastating shot like there's

01:40:38.960 --> 01:40:42.239
not a human being who could take that.

01:40:40.719 --> 01:40:42.560
>> No, it's like getting hit by a car.

01:40:42.238 --> 01:40:43.359
>> Yeah,

01:40:42.560 --> 01:40:46.480
>> because when you

01:40:43.359 --> 01:40:48.319
>> But getting hit by a car in one spot

01:40:46.479 --> 01:40:48.718
the size of a foot, the size of a 13

01:40:48.319 --> 01:40:50.079
foot.

01:40:48.719 --> 01:40:52.480
>> Oh yeah, here it is. Watch this.

01:40:50.079 --> 01:40:53.840
>> He sets him up. Boom.

01:40:52.479 --> 01:40:55.279
It's just

01:40:53.840 --> 01:40:56.000
>> it's like, yeah, no, it's over. It's

01:40:55.279 --> 01:40:57.920
over. It's over.

01:40:56.000 --> 01:40:59.279
>> And this is John moving up to

01:40:57.920 --> 01:41:01.039
heavyweight because light heavyweight

01:40:59.279 --> 01:41:02.960
wasn't a challenge anymore. He decided

01:41:01.039 --> 01:41:04.319
to become a two division champion. I

01:41:02.960 --> 01:41:05.600
mean, John was a freak.

01:41:04.319 --> 01:41:07.279
>> You see it rumbling through.

01:41:05.600 --> 01:41:09.280
>> And by the way, that was almost a little

01:41:07.279 --> 01:41:11.920
bit glancing cuz he caught him with a

01:41:09.279 --> 01:41:13.519
bent leg like he wasn't even fully

01:41:11.920 --> 01:41:16.000
extended, which you know

01:41:13.520 --> 01:41:17.520
>> was even more devast. But John realized

01:41:16.000 --> 01:41:19.118
that as a heavyweight, he didn't have

01:41:17.520 --> 01:41:20.639
the power that he had at light

01:41:19.118 --> 01:41:22.479
heavyweight. And so he said, "The most

01:41:20.639 --> 01:41:23.920
powerful kick is a spinning back kick.

01:41:22.479 --> 01:41:25.279
So I'm just going to work on that kick

01:41:23.920 --> 01:41:27.039
over and over again because that's the

01:41:25.279 --> 01:41:28.238
one tool that I have that can knock a

01:41:27.039 --> 01:41:29.519
heavyweight out with one shot."

01:41:28.238 --> 01:41:30.158
>> Wow. Okay.

01:41:29.520 --> 01:41:31.679
>> That's just

01:41:30.158 --> 01:41:32.479
>> It's not just the physicals of He's also

01:41:31.679 --> 01:41:33.279
like a genius.

01:41:32.479 --> 01:41:36.158
>> He's a genius.

01:41:33.279 --> 01:41:37.840
>> Well, he's also like he's the most

01:41:36.158 --> 01:41:39.439
meticulous when it comes to game

01:41:37.840 --> 01:41:41.440
planning and study. He will not take a

01:41:39.439 --> 01:41:43.198
short notice fight. Even a guy that he

01:41:41.439 --> 01:41:44.479
could beat any day of the week.

01:41:43.198 --> 01:41:45.919
You can wake him up at 3:00 in the

01:41:44.479 --> 01:41:47.839
morning. He could that guy up. we

01:41:45.920 --> 01:41:49.920
will not take that fight unless he gets

01:41:47.840 --> 01:41:51.119
a full training camp to prepare for that

01:41:49.920 --> 01:41:52.880
fight.

01:41:51.118 --> 01:41:54.799
>> Well, it's just, you know, greatness.

01:41:52.880 --> 01:41:57.279
But John's troubled. You know, John's

01:41:54.800 --> 01:41:59.600
been arrested a bunch of times and DUIs

01:41:57.279 --> 01:42:02.079
and all kinds of crazy and he's,

01:41:59.600 --> 01:42:04.400
you know, he's a wild fella. And, you

01:42:02.079 --> 01:42:06.238
know, and that pursuit of greatness, I'm

01:42:04.399 --> 01:42:08.399
sure, has cost him a lot of in his

01:42:06.238 --> 01:42:10.238
personal life. Yeah, [snorts]

01:42:08.399 --> 01:42:11.759
>> but you know when he knocks Deepay out

01:42:10.238 --> 01:42:13.439
and then did the Trump dance in front of

01:42:11.760 --> 01:42:16.079
the whole world like [laughter]

01:42:13.439 --> 01:42:18.479
>> for that moment he's on top of the world

01:42:16.079 --> 01:42:20.479
you know but then again it's like the

01:42:18.479 --> 01:42:22.158
same thing you're as soon as you get

01:42:20.479 --> 01:42:23.519
back like what's next

01:42:22.158 --> 01:42:25.279
>> you know there's there's another

01:42:23.520 --> 01:42:26.960
challenge doesn't matter how many how

01:42:25.279 --> 01:42:28.960
many people love you now like it's not

01:42:26.960 --> 01:42:30.399
good enough there's someone else looming

01:42:28.960 --> 01:42:32.239
you got to beat this guy

01:42:30.399 --> 01:42:34.559
>> that seems like a kind of an agonizing

01:42:32.238 --> 01:42:36.718
thing to both have the like complete

01:42:34.560 --> 01:42:39.520
compulsion to have to get to the next

01:42:36.719 --> 01:42:41.039
level and the next level keeps

01:42:39.520 --> 01:42:43.440
moving the goalpost. You

01:42:41.039 --> 01:42:45.760
>> I'll never forget um I interviewed Matt

01:42:43.439 --> 01:42:48.000
Hughes after he lost to BJ Penn. He lost

01:42:45.760 --> 01:42:49.840
the welterweight title to BJ Penn and

01:42:48.000 --> 01:42:51.198
I'm interviewing him inside the octagon.

01:42:49.840 --> 01:42:53.679
He said I'm going to be honest with you

01:42:51.198 --> 01:42:55.599
is actually a relief. And he goes, "The

01:42:53.679 --> 01:42:58.639
pressure of being the champion and

01:42:55.600 --> 01:43:00.239
having someone chasing you for so in the

01:42:58.639 --> 01:43:01.440
whole world chasing you." He goes, "I'm

01:43:00.238 --> 01:43:03.118
going to be I thought it was an

01:43:01.439 --> 01:43:05.839
incredibly

01:43:03.118 --> 01:43:08.158
>> brave moment for a guy to say that who

01:43:05.840 --> 01:43:10.880
is, you know, just this amazing

01:43:08.158 --> 01:43:12.960
human being, this warrior to say, I just

01:43:10.880 --> 01:43:15.039
got to be honest. It's a relief. Losing

01:43:12.960 --> 01:43:16.480
my title feels like a relief."

01:43:15.039 --> 01:43:20.238
>> And [snorts] I was like, "Wow." Like

01:43:16.479 --> 01:43:21.599
that that is so so brave to be that

01:43:20.238 --> 01:43:22.799
honest in front of the because

01:43:21.600 --> 01:43:25.600
everybody's like you just got your ass

01:43:22.800 --> 01:43:27.199
kicked. It's like I'm this is a relief.

01:43:25.600 --> 01:43:28.880
>> You know, it took a burden off my back.

01:43:27.198 --> 01:43:31.678
I'll be back. I'm going to regroup. But

01:43:28.880 --> 01:43:33.279
I I needed that. I needed to just

01:43:31.679 --> 01:43:34.960
>> step off the top of the hill for

01:43:33.279 --> 01:43:36.719
a little while. Jesus Christ.

01:43:34.960 --> 01:43:38.639
>> You got to be like a great actually

01:43:36.719 --> 01:43:39.920
relief to be able to say something like

01:43:38.639 --> 01:43:41.679
that. It's kind of a gift instead of

01:43:39.920 --> 01:43:43.118
feeling like you got to hide or pretend

01:43:41.679 --> 01:43:44.480
it and go, "Yeah, I'm hiding from my

01:43:43.118 --> 01:43:46.000
leaves. It was a lot to carry and

01:43:44.479 --> 01:43:47.678
now I you know." Well, the thing about

01:43:46.000 --> 01:43:49.920
fighting is everything you try to hide

01:43:47.679 --> 01:43:52.399
gets exposed. You're exposed completely

01:43:49.920 --> 01:43:54.399
during camp because they're doing these

01:43:52.399 --> 01:43:55.519
these round what they take like

01:43:54.399 --> 01:43:57.599
>> try if I was here.

01:43:55.520 --> 01:44:00.960
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Smoke up. They're

01:43:57.600 --> 01:44:03.600
taking like, you know, five guys and

01:44:00.960 --> 01:44:05.840
they're rotating them in with you. So,

01:44:03.600 --> 01:44:08.400
you're doing five rounds with fresh

01:44:05.840 --> 01:44:10.239
guys. So you got one guy who's

01:44:08.399 --> 01:44:11.679
warmed up, getting, you know, getting

01:44:10.238 --> 01:44:13.359
ready for you and then you're

01:44:11.679 --> 01:44:14.960
out of breath and they give you a 30

01:44:13.359 --> 01:44:16.799
second break instead of a minute and

01:44:14.960 --> 01:44:18.480
then they're throwing in these monsters

01:44:16.800 --> 01:44:20.079
and, you know, you're exposed. You're

01:44:18.479 --> 01:44:21.519
you're getting beat in training. You're

01:44:20.079 --> 01:44:23.600
getting smothered in training. You're

01:44:21.520 --> 01:44:26.000
you're exhausted. You know, you're

01:44:23.600 --> 01:44:27.600
always reaching your limits cuz the only

01:44:26.000 --> 01:44:29.520
way to surpass those limits is to hit

01:44:27.600 --> 01:44:30.719
them. You got to hit them and then they

01:44:29.520 --> 01:44:32.239
got to figure out where that limit is

01:44:30.719 --> 01:44:33.920
and okay, next week we're going to do

01:44:32.238 --> 01:44:34.799
one extra round. We're going to do this.

01:44:33.920 --> 01:44:36.158
We're going to do that. we got to do

01:44:34.800 --> 01:44:37.600
more strength and conditioning. We're

01:44:36.158 --> 01:44:39.759
going to push you past wherever your

01:44:37.600 --> 01:44:42.079
capacity is right now. So, you're always

01:44:39.760 --> 01:44:44.320
breaking. You're always you're always at

01:44:42.079 --> 01:44:45.840
the point where you can do no more

01:44:44.319 --> 01:44:47.759
because it's the only way to and you can

01:44:45.840 --> 01:44:49.199
only maintain that like the condition

01:44:47.760 --> 01:44:51.199
that they get in when they step into the

01:44:49.198 --> 01:44:53.439
octagon. It's not possible to maintain

01:44:51.198 --> 01:44:56.000
that. No, right. You can only get

01:44:53.439 --> 01:44:58.079
>> you have to aim at that one moment and

01:44:56.000 --> 01:44:59.840
yeah, you have to peak and then if you

01:44:58.079 --> 01:45:01.198
up and overtrain, which a lot of

01:44:59.840 --> 01:45:02.639
those guys do just because they're such

01:45:01.198 --> 01:45:04.799
savages, they never want to leave the

01:45:02.639 --> 01:45:06.159
gym. Then they don't peak right and then

01:45:04.800 --> 01:45:07.840
they come in and they're exhausted and

01:45:06.158 --> 01:45:09.439
they didn't recover properly and then in

01:45:07.840 --> 01:45:10.800
between rounds they're too tired and

01:45:09.439 --> 01:45:13.359
they can't go out for the next round.

01:45:10.800 --> 01:45:15.360
They're too beat up. That happens too.

01:45:13.359 --> 01:45:17.439
>> I imagine that level of exhaustion has

01:45:15.359 --> 01:45:19.920
to be just insane when you overtrain.

01:45:17.439 --> 01:45:22.319
>> Oh god. you're in an actual championship

01:45:19.920 --> 01:45:24.319
>> and you realized you're there's no you

01:45:22.319 --> 01:45:26.158
can't bounce back and this guy is

01:45:24.319 --> 01:45:28.000
blasting your legs with kicks

01:45:26.158 --> 01:45:29.759
and hitting you with punches and you

01:45:28.000 --> 01:45:31.439
can't get out of the way anymore.

01:45:29.760 --> 01:45:33.280
>> Do you think who who was it? Was it

01:45:31.439 --> 01:45:35.519
Khabib who said that they they should

01:45:33.279 --> 01:45:37.840
just do 25 minute just

01:45:35.520 --> 01:45:41.040
>> Oh, a lot of people said that I mean

01:45:37.840 --> 01:45:43.920
that's a what

01:45:41.039 --> 01:45:44.960
songs are playing. What's going on

01:45:43.920 --> 01:45:46.719
technology?

01:45:44.960 --> 01:45:47.520
>> The Tesy brothers playing in my pocket.

01:45:46.719 --> 01:45:48.960
That's hilarious.

01:45:47.520 --> 01:45:50.880
>> Um, sorry about that. Uh,

01:45:48.960 --> 01:45:52.560
>> well, Hoist Gracie always said that.

01:45:50.880 --> 01:45:53.039
Like that was how he fought in the early

01:45:52.560 --> 01:45:54.719
days.

01:45:53.039 --> 01:45:56.000
>> They just straight 25 minutes

01:45:54.719 --> 01:45:57.439
>> because he was like, "Look," he goes,

01:45:56.000 --> 01:45:58.960
"Uh, if we're on the ground," he goes,

01:45:57.439 --> 01:46:01.039
"I don't want them to stand back up

01:45:58.960 --> 01:46:02.960
again and go in between rounds." And he

01:46:01.039 --> 01:46:05.359
goes, "I need time to cook them." That's

01:46:02.960 --> 01:46:06.560
what he would say. Yeah. Yeah. It was I

01:46:05.359 --> 01:46:08.719
mean, that's what jiu-jitsu is all

01:46:06.560 --> 01:46:10.800
about. Jiu-Jitsu is all about staying

01:46:08.719 --> 01:46:13.039
one step ahead of you until you become

01:46:10.800 --> 01:46:14.320
exhausted and you know and then they

01:46:13.039 --> 01:46:15.840
eventually finish you

01:46:14.319 --> 01:46:16.880
>> like a like a just

01:46:15.840 --> 01:46:20.079
>> throw a constrict.

01:46:16.880 --> 01:46:21.920
>> Yeah. Yeah. I mean it's the real that's

01:46:20.079 --> 01:46:24.719
but you know there's this balance of

01:46:21.920 --> 01:46:27.520
like making it interesting for this for

01:46:24.719 --> 01:46:29.840
people to watch. I I've been a proponent

01:46:27.520 --> 01:46:31.520
of no standups. Don't ever stand anybody

01:46:29.840 --> 01:46:32.800
up when a guy takes you down. Like you

01:46:31.520 --> 01:46:34.639
get an advantage at the beginning of the

01:46:32.800 --> 01:46:36.639
round anyway because a striker gets to

01:46:34.639 --> 01:46:38.239
be standing up when you didn't earn it.

01:46:36.639 --> 01:46:39.440
So you should never get stood up in a

01:46:38.238 --> 01:46:40.959
fight. I don't care if the guy's doing

01:46:39.439 --> 01:46:42.158
nothing. If he's holding you down and

01:46:40.960 --> 01:46:44.480
you can't get up, that's how it should

01:46:42.158 --> 01:46:46.479
be. So it's more realistic. But it's the

01:46:44.479 --> 01:46:46.959
balance of it being a sport. People want

01:46:46.479 --> 01:46:48.559
to watch.

01:46:46.960 --> 01:46:49.840
>> Yeah. Making it because people get when

01:46:48.560 --> 01:46:51.920
people grab someone to take him to the

01:46:49.840 --> 01:46:53.760
ground, nothing happen. People go, you

01:46:51.920 --> 01:46:55.359
hear the audience and then the referee

01:46:53.760 --> 01:46:57.199
gets a little motivated and he stands

01:46:55.359 --> 01:46:58.639
people up and I'm always like, "Ah,

01:46:57.198 --> 01:47:00.000
don't stand them up." It's

01:46:58.639 --> 01:47:01.440
>> I never thought of it that way that the

01:47:00.000 --> 01:47:02.399
beginning of the round starts it to the

01:47:01.439 --> 01:47:04.879
advantage of the

01:47:02.399 --> 01:47:06.799
>> always always you're you're in a

01:47:04.880 --> 01:47:08.159
position you didn't earn you never got

01:47:06.800 --> 01:47:09.440
back up. You know I think they should

01:47:08.158 --> 01:47:10.960
put them right back to where they were

01:47:09.439 --> 01:47:13.039
at the end of the round because it's one

01:47:10.960 --> 01:47:14.319
fight. It's not five fights. So if you

01:47:13.039 --> 01:47:15.679
start it standing up and at the

01:47:14.319 --> 01:47:16.479
beginning of each round that's a new

01:47:15.679 --> 01:47:17.199
fight.

01:47:16.479 --> 01:47:20.238
>> Yeah. Right.

01:47:17.198 --> 01:47:21.919
>> In a way when you're pitching like how

01:47:20.238 --> 01:47:22.238
quickly would the UFC go out of business

01:47:21.920 --> 01:47:24.399
if

01:47:22.238 --> 01:47:26.079
>> real quick 30 seconds they're on the

01:47:24.399 --> 01:47:27.839
ground and then it's 24 and a half

01:47:26.079 --> 01:47:30.238
minutes. Dude, I'm a terrible

01:47:27.840 --> 01:47:32.639
businessman. [laughter] I I would give

01:47:30.238 --> 01:47:33.839
the fighters more money. Like they would

01:47:32.639 --> 01:47:35.920
I would up the whole business

01:47:33.840 --> 01:47:37.760
model. I would uh I would get rid of the

01:47:35.920 --> 01:47:39.840
cage. I would have them all fight in a

01:47:37.760 --> 01:47:41.520
basketball court. Just put mats on the

01:47:39.840 --> 01:47:42.960
ground in the basketball court. I don't

01:47:41.520 --> 01:47:44.960
think you should have a cage. I think

01:47:42.960 --> 01:47:46.719
the cage gets in the way. It becomes a

01:47:44.960 --> 01:47:48.239
way to get back up because you press

01:47:46.719 --> 01:47:50.319
your back up against the cage. You can

01:47:48.238 --> 01:47:52.000
use it to stand back up again and you're

01:47:50.319 --> 01:47:53.840
in the middle of the center of a mat.

01:47:52.000 --> 01:47:55.198
It's very difficult to get back up. And

01:47:53.840 --> 01:47:56.880
that's realistic,

01:47:55.198 --> 01:47:59.039
>> right? you know, you're using a foreign

01:47:56.880 --> 01:47:59.920
object to help you perform. Yeah. Right.

01:47:59.039 --> 01:48:01.679
Yeah. But,

01:47:59.920 --> 01:48:03.760
>> you know, there's the whole macho thing

01:48:01.679 --> 01:48:06.158
about people fighting in a cage and it's

01:48:03.760 --> 01:48:06.960
like they lock you in there [laughter]

01:48:06.158 --> 01:48:10.000
match.

01:48:06.960 --> 01:48:13.279
>> Yeah. It's just uh but I mean in terms

01:48:10.000 --> 01:48:15.279
of like inspirational performances and

01:48:13.279 --> 01:48:17.840
things that you when you see like the

01:48:15.279 --> 01:48:20.000
human spirit elevated to the the the

01:48:17.840 --> 01:48:23.360
highest possible place when two very

01:48:20.000 --> 01:48:25.198
skilled men or women are fighting in a

01:48:23.359 --> 01:48:27.198
cage where they prepared for this for

01:48:25.198 --> 01:48:29.118
three months and then you know

01:48:27.198 --> 01:48:31.599
the referee's like are you ready? Are

01:48:29.118 --> 01:48:35.039
you ready? Let's go. And it's like that

01:48:31.600 --> 01:48:36.719
moment like is it's not not like

01:48:35.039 --> 01:48:38.238
anything else in all sports. I think

01:48:36.719 --> 01:48:40.239
that's the moment that like people show

01:48:38.238 --> 01:48:41.599
up for cuz they build the intensity.

01:48:40.238 --> 01:48:43.678
It's the same with like the old Tyson

01:48:41.600 --> 01:48:46.560
fights or whatever like now it's going

01:48:43.679 --> 01:48:48.399
to happen and there there you can't help

01:48:46.560 --> 01:48:49.840
but have that feeling once it you know

01:48:48.399 --> 01:48:51.439
and yeah some fights end up being

01:48:49.840 --> 01:48:52.960
disappointing whatever but there that

01:48:51.439 --> 01:48:55.039
moment is always there.

01:48:52.960 --> 01:48:56.480
>> Well, Tyson was a crazy example of what

01:48:55.039 --> 01:48:58.319
we were talking about with greatness

01:48:56.479 --> 01:49:00.079
because like you could dedicate your

01:48:58.319 --> 01:49:01.759
whole life. You could get up in

01:49:00.079 --> 01:49:03.279
the morning at the right time. You could

01:49:01.760 --> 01:49:05.039
eat all the right foods. you could do

01:49:03.279 --> 01:49:07.599
all the right training, but then you see

01:49:05.039 --> 01:49:08.479
that guy like smoke [laughter]

01:49:07.600 --> 01:49:11.039
13 seconds.

01:49:08.479 --> 01:49:13.118
>> There's nothing I can do. I have no

01:49:11.039 --> 01:49:14.639
chance. You know, by looking at he had

01:49:13.118 --> 01:49:15.839
the just a look in his eye and you it

01:49:14.639 --> 01:49:17.679
was one of the only fighters where you

01:49:15.840 --> 01:49:19.279
just see the other guy was scared.

01:49:17.679 --> 01:49:21.039
>> Usually they at least hold himself

01:49:19.279 --> 01:49:22.238
together where they come off like, "Oh,

01:49:21.039 --> 01:49:24.639
I don't know. This guy looks pretty

01:49:22.238 --> 01:49:26.319
tough." Guys would fight Tyson and just

01:49:24.639 --> 01:49:28.239
would start and they'd feel that moment

01:49:26.319 --> 01:49:30.559
too. Oh they're letting this tiger

01:49:28.238 --> 01:49:31.839
out and here he comes. And it was like,

01:49:30.560 --> 01:49:33.520
>> well, we're old enough to remember when

01:49:31.840 --> 01:49:35.039
he was in his prime and those fights

01:49:33.520 --> 01:49:36.639
were like executions. You didn't want to

01:49:35.039 --> 01:49:40.079
pay for the pay-per-view because they

01:49:36.639 --> 01:49:41.760
were so I I swear I mean I mean Jamie

01:49:40.079 --> 01:49:43.679
might be able to prove me wrong, but I'm

01:49:41.760 --> 01:49:45.520
pretty sure that they cut to Alex

01:49:43.679 --> 01:49:47.359
Stewart and they cut to his wife and she

01:49:45.520 --> 01:49:48.880
was crying [laughter]

01:49:47.359 --> 01:49:50.639
>> and this is when they're coming to the

01:49:48.880 --> 01:49:52.400
center of the ring and she But by the

01:49:50.639 --> 01:49:54.000
way, for good reason. Like this man

01:49:52.399 --> 01:49:54.960
might kill my husband, right?

01:49:54.000 --> 01:49:56.238
>> You know what I mean? like

01:49:54.960 --> 01:49:58.079
>> he's certainly going to beat the

01:49:56.238 --> 01:49:59.039
out of him and she knows it and the

01:49:58.079 --> 01:50:00.238
world knows it and

01:49:59.039 --> 01:50:02.479
>> guys were ready to quit. Remember that

01:50:00.238 --> 01:50:04.079
dude Hurricane or whatever white kid who

01:50:02.479 --> 01:50:05.678
fought him when

01:50:04.079 --> 01:50:07.679
>> his guy couldn't wait to throw the towel

01:50:05.679 --> 01:50:08.560
in. He had it ready like you know he was

01:50:07.679 --> 01:50:08.880
ready to go. All right, that's it.

01:50:08.560 --> 01:50:10.239
That's good.

01:50:08.880 --> 01:50:11.760
>> The bell rings he picks up the towel.

01:50:10.238 --> 01:50:13.039
>> Yeah, [laughter] you got save your guy's

01:50:11.760 --> 01:50:14.719
life. You know what I mean?

01:50:13.039 --> 01:50:16.560
>> McNeel is up now, too. When you

01:50:14.719 --> 01:50:18.158
hear him talk, it's rough. It's rough to

01:50:16.560 --> 01:50:19.840
hear. Really? Yeah. I saw him get

01:50:18.158 --> 01:50:22.158
interviewed recently. That's the dark

01:50:19.840 --> 01:50:24.079
side of the sport of of MMA and of

01:50:22.158 --> 01:50:26.000
fighting. You know, you you talk like I

01:50:24.079 --> 01:50:27.760
had Johnny Knoxville on here yesterday

01:50:26.000 --> 01:50:29.439
and Johnny Knoxville was knocked

01:50:27.760 --> 01:50:30.000
unconscious 16 times.

01:50:29.439 --> 01:50:31.519
>> Jesus Christ.

01:50:30.000 --> 01:50:34.560
>> Yeah, that's what I said. And I'm like,

01:50:31.520 --> 01:50:36.080
"Holy man." And he seems normal.

01:50:34.560 --> 01:50:37.679
Like, he doesn't seem like he's got

01:50:36.079 --> 01:50:39.679
brain damage. Now, when you're talking

01:50:37.679 --> 01:50:41.679
to guys and you know they have brain

01:50:39.679 --> 01:50:43.359
damage, they're slurring their words and

01:50:41.679 --> 01:50:45.279
they're still fighting.

01:50:43.359 --> 01:50:47.359
>> Their words all mumble together. Like,

01:50:45.279 --> 01:50:48.399
you have no idea how much they're

01:50:47.359 --> 01:50:49.759
struggling.

01:50:48.399 --> 01:50:51.679
>> Like, and they'll they're going to be

01:50:49.760 --> 01:50:52.719
struggling in a downhill slope for the

01:50:51.679 --> 01:50:54.480
rest of their life. It's not going to

01:50:52.719 --> 01:50:56.800
get better. It's going to get way worse

01:50:54.479 --> 01:50:58.718
cuz the real brain damage occurs like 10

01:50:56.800 --> 01:50:59.679
years after the the injuries. That's

01:50:58.719 --> 01:51:01.279
when it really sets up.

01:50:59.679 --> 01:51:02.800
>> Really starts like just keeps

01:51:01.279 --> 01:51:05.279
>> keep getting worse. I mean, there's some

01:51:02.800 --> 01:51:08.239
therapies that they can do now. There's

01:51:05.279 --> 01:51:10.559
uh like they they do and Knoxville did

01:51:08.238 --> 01:51:12.879
some of it like this magnetic therapy

01:51:10.560 --> 01:51:16.159
that they do that reimulates neuron

01:51:12.880 --> 01:51:18.719
growth and and oddly enough mushrooms

01:51:16.158 --> 01:51:20.238
like psilocybin has been shown to all of

01:51:18.719 --> 01:51:22.960
a sudden cure a whole bunch of

01:51:20.238 --> 01:51:23.519
>> I know. Well, probably always has, you

01:51:22.960 --> 01:51:25.279
know,

01:51:23.520 --> 01:51:25.760
>> all of a sudden they acknowledging it.

01:51:25.279 --> 01:51:27.039
Yeah.

01:51:25.760 --> 01:51:28.560
>> Well, one of the things that's opening

01:51:27.039 --> 01:51:29.439
the doors for them to acknowledge it is

01:51:28.560 --> 01:51:31.280
soldiers

01:51:29.439 --> 01:51:33.439
>> because it's always been kind of like a

01:51:31.279 --> 01:51:36.000
leftwing wing thing to be into

01:51:33.439 --> 01:51:38.319
psychedelics, but all these soldiers are

01:51:36.000 --> 01:51:41.599
coming back with PTSD and drug addiction

01:51:38.319 --> 01:51:44.238
and a lot of CTE from, you know, bombs

01:51:41.599 --> 01:51:45.520
blowing up and IEDs and concussions and

01:51:44.238 --> 01:51:47.519
the only thing that's helping them is

01:51:45.520 --> 01:51:50.080
psychedelics. So, it's kind of like in

01:51:47.520 --> 01:51:52.080
Texas, uh, former Governor Rick Perry

01:51:50.079 --> 01:51:54.319
has started the Ibeane initiative. So,

01:51:52.079 --> 01:51:56.639
they're using Ibeane to help all these

01:51:54.319 --> 01:51:58.960
different soldiers, which is ironically

01:51:56.639 --> 01:52:00.800
the drug that Hunter S. Thompson claimed

01:51:58.960 --> 01:52:02.000
Ed Musky was on when he was running for

01:52:00.800 --> 01:52:04.159
president. Oh, really? Yeah. [laughter]

01:52:02.000 --> 01:52:04.479
Remember when he sank Ed Musky's? It's

01:52:04.158 --> 01:52:05.759
if

01:52:04.479 --> 01:52:07.839
>> What is I gain? I

01:52:05.760 --> 01:52:09.599
>> It's from the Aboga tree. And it is a

01:52:07.840 --> 01:52:12.159
psychedelic that is in no way

01:52:09.599 --> 01:52:13.920
recreational. It is a very difficult

01:52:12.158 --> 01:52:16.559
experience. It's not fun for anybody.

01:52:13.920 --> 01:52:18.158
It's like a 24-hour trip. I haven't done

01:52:16.560 --> 01:52:20.400
it, but my friends that have done it say

01:52:18.158 --> 01:52:23.519
that it's basically like you see your

01:52:20.399 --> 01:52:26.158
entire life play out before you. You see

01:52:23.520 --> 01:52:28.159
where all your problems come from. You

01:52:26.158 --> 01:52:31.598
see where all of your emotional hitches

01:52:28.158 --> 01:52:35.439
are. Yeah. And with addictions, it has

01:52:31.599 --> 01:52:37.119
an 80% 80 I think it's 84% with one

01:52:35.439 --> 01:52:39.678
treatment, they quit whatever they're

01:52:37.118 --> 01:52:42.399
hooked on. Not only that, it rewires the

01:52:39.679 --> 01:52:44.079
brain. So the physical pathways to

01:52:42.399 --> 01:52:46.719
addiction, like someone addict to

01:52:44.079 --> 01:52:48.399
opiates, gone, completely severed. So

01:52:46.719 --> 01:52:50.399
you literally don't have a physical

01:52:48.399 --> 01:52:52.638
addiction to opiates anymore. So with

01:52:50.399 --> 01:52:53.279
one treatment, 80 plus% of people

01:52:52.639 --> 01:52:56.079
>> That's incredible.

01:52:53.279 --> 01:52:56.719
>> With two treatments, it's in the '9s.

01:52:56.079 --> 01:52:58.319
>> That's amazing.

01:52:56.719 --> 01:53:00.719
>> It's amazing. And it's been illegal, you

01:52:58.319 --> 01:53:02.559
know, since like 1970 in this country.

01:53:00.719 --> 01:53:04.719
The sweeping psychedelics has like a

01:53:02.560 --> 01:53:06.800
clinic or whatever. Well, Rick Perry um

01:53:04.719 --> 01:53:07.840
because he's worked with soldiers and

01:53:06.800 --> 01:53:10.079
because he's worked with a lot of

01:53:07.840 --> 01:53:11.760
veterans that you know and he's a very

01:53:10.079 --> 01:53:13.840
compassionate and intelligent man, he

01:53:11.760 --> 01:53:16.320
realized like, okay, maybe I'm wrong

01:53:13.840 --> 01:53:18.079
about all this psychedelic stuff. And so

01:53:16.319 --> 01:53:20.079
he started getting behind this ibeane

01:53:18.079 --> 01:53:21.679
initiative. They passed it in Texas and

01:53:20.079 --> 01:53:22.639
now they're doing it with soldiers and

01:53:21.679 --> 01:53:24.800
they're going to do it with police

01:53:22.639 --> 01:53:26.719
officers. And I mean police officers

01:53:24.800 --> 01:53:28.800
experience more PTSD. Like I I have a

01:53:26.719 --> 01:53:30.560
good friend who was a cop in Austin and

01:53:28.800 --> 01:53:32.480
he said and he was also in the military

01:53:30.560 --> 01:53:34.560
and he said what I saw in the military

01:53:32.479 --> 01:53:36.000
was nothing compared to what I saw as a

01:53:34.560 --> 01:53:38.560
police officer. Really? He goes, "I was

01:53:36.000 --> 01:53:40.319
seeing death and violence on a on a

01:53:38.560 --> 01:53:42.159
daily basis." He goes, "When you're

01:53:40.319 --> 01:53:43.359
deployed," he goes, "Yeah, you're you're

01:53:42.158 --> 01:53:44.479
going to see some horrible but

01:53:43.359 --> 01:53:46.799
you're going to see some horrible

01:53:44.479 --> 01:53:49.359
mixed in, you know, over a course of

01:53:46.800 --> 01:53:52.239
time where, you know, you go out and

01:53:49.359 --> 01:53:53.679
things go live." goes like every day.

01:53:52.238 --> 01:53:54.959
>> Every day you're going directly to

01:53:53.679 --> 01:53:55.599
somebody who's having the worst moment

01:53:54.960 --> 01:53:56.560
of their life.

01:53:55.599 --> 01:53:58.079
>> And every day you're pulling someone

01:53:56.560 --> 01:53:59.599
over and they might shoot you. Like you

01:53:58.079 --> 01:54:02.000
have no idea. You're you're pulling up

01:53:59.599 --> 01:54:03.679
to uh tinted windows. You don't know

01:54:02.000 --> 01:54:05.520
what the is going on. You're

01:54:03.679 --> 01:54:07.840
running the plate. The the license is

01:54:05.520 --> 01:54:09.280
expired. You have no idea who's who's in

01:54:07.840 --> 01:54:11.199
the car. You don't you don't know

01:54:09.279 --> 01:54:12.880
anything. And you've seen all the

01:54:11.198 --> 01:54:14.158
videos. We've all seen videos of cops

01:54:12.880 --> 01:54:15.920
getting shot down like when they're

01:54:14.158 --> 01:54:17.519
pulling over a car. We've all seen it.

01:54:15.920 --> 01:54:20.158
And so these guys are living with this

01:54:17.520 --> 01:54:21.920
PTSD all the time. And then they

01:54:20.158 --> 01:54:23.439
have to live in real life. They they're

01:54:21.920 --> 01:54:25.599
supposed to go home and they're supposed

01:54:23.439 --> 01:54:28.000
to just be a normal dad and a normal

01:54:25.599 --> 01:54:30.159
neighbor. And their head is just

01:54:28.000 --> 01:54:32.399
a hurricane of chaos.

01:54:30.158 --> 01:54:35.039
>> And I gain has been very beneficial for

01:54:32.399 --> 01:54:38.079
those people to just just sort of come

01:54:35.039 --> 01:54:40.238
down and and try to find the root of all

01:54:38.079 --> 01:54:42.079
this stuff and and get them off pills

01:54:40.238 --> 01:54:42.638
and and get them on the straight.

01:54:42.079 --> 01:54:43.279
>> That's great.

01:54:42.639 --> 01:54:44.960
>> Wow.

01:54:43.279 --> 01:54:48.479
>> Oh, it's amazing. I don't know why we

01:54:44.960 --> 01:54:51.279
got on the mushrooms. Oh, I because uh

01:54:48.479 --> 01:54:53.839
during the Trump during the presidential

01:54:51.279 --> 01:54:56.639
elections, he he started spreading these

01:54:53.840 --> 01:54:58.560
rumors and it's in the the documentary

01:54:56.639 --> 01:55:00.560
uh I what is it that documentary? Is it

01:54:58.560 --> 01:55:02.639
Fear and Loathing?

01:55:00.560 --> 01:55:04.000
>> Gonzo. Gonzo. That's right. In that

01:55:02.639 --> 01:55:05.199
documentary, Gonzo, he talks about it.

01:55:04.000 --> 01:55:06.880
So, he's getting interviewed by Dick

01:55:05.198 --> 01:55:08.879
Cavitt and he goes [laughter] he goes,

01:55:06.880 --> 01:55:10.719
"Yeah." He goes, "There was a a rumor

01:55:08.880 --> 01:55:13.039
running around that uh Ed Musky was on

01:55:10.719 --> 01:55:16.279
Ibagain and I I knew about it because uh

01:55:13.039 --> 01:55:16.278
I started that rumor. [laughter]

01:55:17.198 --> 01:55:21.759
But he made I sold it to him.

01:55:19.359 --> 01:55:23.279
>> So the guy completely cracked. So like

01:55:21.760 --> 01:55:25.679
this guy was like a frontr runner for

01:55:23.279 --> 01:55:27.519
the president and he completely

01:55:25.679 --> 01:55:29.599
cracked because everybody thought that

01:55:27.520 --> 01:55:30.800
he was on drugs cuz H Conter Thompson

01:55:29.599 --> 01:55:32.719
was just running around like saying

01:55:30.800 --> 01:55:34.320
there's these Brazilian witch doctors

01:55:32.719 --> 01:55:35.679
who are coming in to treat this guy.

01:55:34.319 --> 01:55:37.679
It's crazy

01:55:35.679 --> 01:55:39.599
>> That's [laughter] great.

01:55:37.679 --> 01:55:41.520
>> They were like and Hunter would know.

01:55:39.599 --> 01:55:43.360
>> Yeah. Yeah. But it's crazy that he chose

01:55:41.520 --> 01:55:46.000
Ibgainane, too, because Ibgainane is

01:55:43.359 --> 01:55:47.759
like it's not a recreational drug and

01:55:46.000 --> 01:55:49.198
it's not a drug of addiction. It's a

01:55:47.760 --> 01:55:50.800
literally a drug that stops addiction.

01:55:49.198 --> 01:55:52.799
>> But that he was the guy that would have

01:55:50.800 --> 01:55:54.560
the full c the whole book's full of

01:55:52.800 --> 01:55:55.840
these esoteric drugs you never

01:55:54.560 --> 01:55:57.920
heard of that you mentioned really

01:55:55.840 --> 01:55:59.520
casual way like four of us stopped to

01:55:57.920 --> 01:56:01.279
get ibeine at the one gas station that

01:55:59.520 --> 01:56:02.639
sold between [laughter] needles and

01:56:01.279 --> 01:56:04.158
nothing.

01:56:02.639 --> 01:56:06.079
>> Yeah, sure. No, of course you did.

01:56:04.158 --> 01:56:08.158
>> But it it does help people that have uh

01:56:06.079 --> 01:56:10.880
brain damage as well. It's it's supposed

01:56:08.158 --> 01:56:13.039
to like cause some sort of neuro

01:56:10.880 --> 01:56:14.400
>> regeneration. Yeah. Yeah.

01:56:13.039 --> 01:56:17.439
>> There's stuff out there that can help

01:56:14.399 --> 01:56:19.598
people, but uh a large percentage of

01:56:17.439 --> 01:56:21.598
these fighters are silently suffering

01:56:19.599 --> 01:56:22.719
and we don't ever hear about it.

01:56:21.599 --> 01:56:24.719
>> They say like it's supposed to be that

01:56:22.719 --> 01:56:26.399
it's that like the argument is is

01:56:24.719 --> 01:56:27.920
because it's you know they're not using

01:56:26.399 --> 01:56:29.279
a glove like that football supposed to

01:56:27.920 --> 01:56:31.520
be wor I mean wasn't that the sort of

01:56:29.279 --> 01:56:33.679
rationale that like you were going to

01:56:31.520 --> 01:56:35.679
have less impact in boxing because the

01:56:33.679 --> 01:56:37.199
the boxing gloves? No, but it's remember

01:56:35.679 --> 01:56:39.039
it's all it's like the subconcussive

01:56:37.198 --> 01:56:40.960
blows. It's like the it's not

01:56:39.039 --> 01:56:43.920
necessarily the the the one shot

01:56:40.960 --> 01:56:46.158
knocking you out as much as the repeated

01:56:43.920 --> 01:56:46.880
>> kind of like small like little bit of

01:56:46.158 --> 01:56:48.559
brain bleed.

01:56:46.880 --> 01:56:50.000
>> I'm sure it's like they're all bad for

01:56:48.560 --> 01:56:50.560
you. You know what I mean? Like a

01:56:50.000 --> 01:56:52.880
version of

01:56:50.560 --> 01:56:54.480
>> knocks to the head are not a thing to be

01:56:52.880 --> 01:56:55.679
avoided. Yeah.

01:56:54.479 --> 01:56:56.959
>> Well, it's also what you take in

01:56:55.679 --> 01:56:58.639
training, too. We're only considering

01:56:56.960 --> 01:57:01.279
what happens during a fight. If a guy

01:56:58.639 --> 01:57:02.800
has 40 50 MMA fights, that's 40.

01:57:01.279 --> 01:57:04.960
>> How many rounds does he have right in

01:57:02.800 --> 01:57:07.440
the gym? Yeah. Oh, training camp is

01:57:04.960 --> 01:57:09.599
brutal. And depending upon how

01:57:07.439 --> 01:57:11.678
intelligent your camp is. Like some

01:57:09.599 --> 01:57:13.039
people are really smart and they'll spar

01:57:11.679 --> 01:57:14.960
where they're not hitting each other

01:57:13.039 --> 01:57:16.399
hard and then maybe one day of the week

01:57:14.960 --> 01:57:18.560
they go live, but you do it with

01:57:16.399 --> 01:57:19.920
trusted, you know, they're they're very

01:57:18.560 --> 01:57:21.039
close to you. These are people that you

01:57:19.920 --> 01:57:22.639
care about and love, so they're not

01:57:21.039 --> 01:57:24.399
going to try to hurt you on purpose.

01:57:22.639 --> 01:57:26.560
>> But sometimes not. Like sometimes you're

01:57:24.399 --> 01:57:28.079
in a hostile gym and you know, you got

01:57:26.560 --> 01:57:29.599
to spar with people you don't even know.

01:57:28.079 --> 01:57:30.880
They're from other countries. You have a

01:57:29.599 --> 01:57:34.319
big name. They're trying to take you

01:57:30.880 --> 01:57:35.679
out. you know, it's um but the the

01:57:34.319 --> 01:57:37.198
amount of damage these guys take. I

01:57:35.679 --> 01:57:39.599
mean, I don't know if football's better

01:57:37.198 --> 01:57:42.399
or worse. They're all But the thing

01:57:39.599 --> 01:57:46.000
about football is the big impacts are

01:57:42.399 --> 01:57:49.118
way worse because when you've got a 300B

01:57:46.000 --> 01:57:51.279
super athlete that's full tilt

01:57:49.118 --> 01:57:52.799
all the way from across

01:57:51.279 --> 01:57:53.599
>> boom

01:57:52.800 --> 01:57:55.520
running start.

01:57:53.599 --> 01:57:59.520
>> Yeah. you're getting hit by a truck

01:57:55.520 --> 01:58:02.000
>> and that but that doesn't it's it's not

01:57:59.520 --> 01:58:03.920
targeted necessarily at your head. So

01:58:02.000 --> 01:58:05.760
it's like what what is better and what

01:58:03.920 --> 01:58:06.719
is worse. You know, boxing's bad. You

01:58:05.760 --> 01:58:08.800
know, it's like

01:58:06.719 --> 01:58:10.560
>> you have less options. MMA is slightly

01:58:08.800 --> 01:58:12.719
better because if especially if you're a

01:58:10.560 --> 01:58:15.840
grappler, you can take guys down and you

01:58:12.719 --> 01:58:17.118
can beat them up on the ground, but it's

01:58:15.840 --> 01:58:18.719
ultimately

01:58:17.118 --> 01:58:21.439
>> you're paying a price make a

01:58:18.719 --> 01:58:23.359
living for sure. But for that glory, for

01:58:21.439 --> 01:58:25.678
that one moment when they win and the

01:58:23.359 --> 01:58:28.000
16,000 people are on their feet

01:58:25.679 --> 01:58:29.520
screaming, there's probably no drug like

01:58:28.000 --> 01:58:31.359
that that could ever reproduce it. And

01:58:29.520 --> 01:58:33.360
those guys chase that high for their

01:58:31.359 --> 01:58:35.039
entire life and then after it's over,

01:58:33.359 --> 01:58:36.079
they, you know, they feel oddly

01:58:35.039 --> 01:58:36.479
detached,

01:58:36.079 --> 01:58:38.399
>> right?

01:58:36.479 --> 01:58:38.799
>> And nothing ever rises to that level

01:58:38.399 --> 01:58:40.479
again,

01:58:38.800 --> 01:58:42.079
>> right? You can make films until you're a

01:58:40.479 --> 01:58:44.158
hundred years old. You know, you can

01:58:42.079 --> 01:58:46.000
make great films forever. You can do the

01:58:44.158 --> 01:58:48.000
thing that you love forever. They have a

01:58:46.000 --> 01:58:49.279
little window, a little window of

01:58:48.000 --> 01:58:50.399
greatness. really tough thing about

01:58:49.279 --> 01:58:51.599
being an athlete like I

01:58:50.399 --> 01:58:54.000
>> we were talking to Pete Sampress that

01:58:51.599 --> 01:58:55.840
time we met Sam years ago and he was

01:58:54.000 --> 01:58:57.760
like we were probably I don't know how

01:58:55.840 --> 01:58:58.319
we were 30 he was 32 or something like

01:58:57.760 --> 01:58:59.679
that

01:58:58.319 --> 01:59:01.439
>> and he was kind of we were like oh my

01:58:59.679 --> 01:59:03.520
god you know he had all these

01:59:01.439 --> 01:59:05.118
you know wins and grand slams and he he

01:59:03.520 --> 01:59:06.560
had a kind of vaguely like yeah he was

01:59:05.118 --> 01:59:09.920
like hey you guys look I I'm about to

01:59:06.560 --> 01:59:11.760
retire it's I'm finished and we're you

01:59:09.920 --> 01:59:13.199
know young guys were you know

01:59:11.760 --> 01:59:15.039
>> just getting started you know what I

01:59:13.198 --> 01:59:16.000
mean like we're also the thing is you

01:59:15.039 --> 01:59:18.158
get better

01:59:16.000 --> 01:59:19.439
>> at your job the more you do it Yeah. You

01:59:18.158 --> 01:59:21.279
know, so it's that thing with the

01:59:19.439 --> 01:59:23.198
athlete. I was having this conversation

01:59:21.279 --> 01:59:25.279
the other day. It's like you have all

01:59:23.198 --> 01:59:27.359
the physical skills at the beginning,

01:59:25.279 --> 01:59:28.479
but you become a better, you know,

01:59:27.359 --> 01:59:28.960
better at your sport.

01:59:28.479 --> 01:59:31.118
>> Yeah.

01:59:28.960 --> 01:59:31.439
>> You know, as your skills are declining

01:59:31.118 --> 01:59:33.198
and

01:59:31.439 --> 01:59:33.839
>> the body just doesn't want to do it

01:59:33.198 --> 01:59:36.319
anymore.

01:59:33.840 --> 01:59:38.000
>> And you've got to just comp become Greg

01:59:36.319 --> 01:59:40.799
Maddox, you know, and compensate with

01:59:38.000 --> 01:59:42.560
all the tricks and location and but like

01:59:40.800 --> 01:59:45.920
and that's why that drama of like the

01:59:42.560 --> 01:59:47.840
aging athlete is so powerful. still have

01:59:45.920 --> 01:59:50.000
it. It's like all do we still have it in

01:59:47.840 --> 01:59:53.440
me? Can I still do it? How long, you

01:59:50.000 --> 01:59:55.439
know, is what I've learned enough to

01:59:53.439 --> 01:59:56.879
compensate for what I've lost? You know,

01:59:55.439 --> 02:00:00.000
>> well, there's an interesting story about

01:59:56.880 --> 02:00:01.920
Vtor Belelffort. So, Vtor Belelffort was

02:00:00.000 --> 02:00:03.920
he won the UFC heavyweight tournament

02:00:01.920 --> 02:00:06.239
when he was 19 years old. That was like

02:00:03.920 --> 02:00:08.319
the first event I ever worked at, 1997.

02:00:06.238 --> 02:00:10.158
I mean, he was like one of the all-time

02:00:08.319 --> 02:00:12.079
greats for sure. But as he was getting

02:00:10.158 --> 02:00:15.039
into his 30s, he was starting to

02:00:12.079 --> 02:00:18.000
decline. Then the UFC allowed fighters

02:00:15.039 --> 02:00:20.801
to use testosterone replacement therapy

02:00:18.000 --> 02:00:22.399
and boy did he use it. Okay,

02:00:20.801 --> 02:00:24.319
[laughter] I don't know what his levels

02:00:22.399 --> 02:00:27.039
were, but they were like superhuman

02:00:24.319 --> 02:00:29.039
levels. And there was a moment in time

02:00:27.039 --> 02:00:30.719
for a few years where they allowed him

02:00:29.039 --> 02:00:33.279
to use testosterone therapy and people

02:00:30.719 --> 02:00:35.920
refer to it as the TRT Vtor years

02:00:33.279 --> 02:00:38.399
because he was terrifying

02:00:35.920 --> 02:00:40.319
because he has the mind of a veteran.

02:00:38.399 --> 02:00:43.598
Incredible amount of experience. But now

02:00:40.319 --> 02:00:46.399
his body is moving like a 25-year-old.

02:00:43.599 --> 02:00:48.079
And so he was just annihilating people

02:00:46.399 --> 02:00:49.118
just lighting people on fire.

02:00:48.079 --> 02:00:50.319
>> So they're not allowed to use

02:00:49.118 --> 02:00:51.519
testosterone or

02:00:50.319 --> 02:00:52.000
>> No, they can't use anything.

02:00:51.520 --> 02:00:52.480
>> Um,

02:00:52.000 --> 02:00:54.000
>> no.

02:00:52.479 --> 02:00:55.919
>> No. How about peptides? Can they use

02:00:54.000 --> 02:00:58.399
peptides? Nope. Nope. Not even peptides.

02:00:55.920 --> 02:01:00.880
They're trying to take that and and

02:00:58.399 --> 02:01:02.238
reform that. But there's a lot of

02:01:00.880 --> 02:01:03.840
ignorance about peptides, what they

02:01:02.238 --> 02:01:05.519
actually do. I mean, all it's allowing

02:01:03.840 --> 02:01:07.440
you to do soft tissue injuries, heal

02:01:05.520 --> 02:01:08.880
quicker, and optimize your body's

02:01:07.439 --> 02:01:11.039
ability to produce hormones. So, instead

02:01:08.880 --> 02:01:13.440
of adding exogenous hormones, you're

02:01:11.039 --> 02:01:15.359
allowing your body to produce them more

02:01:13.439 --> 02:01:18.559
naturally, and it'll it just makes you

02:01:15.359 --> 02:01:19.920
more healthy. for a very unhealthy job

02:01:18.560 --> 02:01:21.679
and where you're, you know, you're

02:01:19.920 --> 02:01:23.039
getting hurt all the time. It's it's

02:01:21.679 --> 02:01:24.960
going to be better for the sport, better

02:01:23.039 --> 02:01:26.560
for the athletes to allow them to all

02:01:24.960 --> 02:01:28.319
use it. And it's also there's no

02:01:26.560 --> 02:01:29.520
long-term damage that's going to do like

02:01:28.319 --> 02:01:31.279
steroids where it shuts down your

02:01:29.520 --> 02:01:33.679
endocrine system.

02:01:31.279 --> 02:01:35.279
>> So, I hope they reform it. But the idea

02:01:33.679 --> 02:01:37.840
was that there's so many

02:01:35.279 --> 02:01:40.960
loopholes and so many people cheat. Big

02:01:37.840 --> 02:01:44.480
camps used to hire scientists. So they

02:01:40.960 --> 02:01:45.198
had a scientist on staff that was not

02:01:44.479 --> 02:01:46.079
only

02:01:45.198 --> 02:01:48.638
>> he do.

02:01:46.079 --> 02:01:50.960
>> Yeah. Exactly. Not only procuring stuff

02:01:48.639 --> 02:01:52.639
that that would slip by the test because

02:01:50.960 --> 02:01:54.480
there's like you know the Balco stuff

02:01:52.639 --> 02:01:55.679
with Barry Bond clear

02:01:54.479 --> 02:01:57.678
>> there. There's there's stuff probably

02:01:55.679 --> 02:01:59.279
right now that people are using that's

02:01:57.679 --> 02:02:01.520
slipping through and there's a lot of

02:01:59.279 --> 02:02:04.399
experts that have like one of the things

02:02:01.520 --> 02:02:06.239
is animal derived testosterone. So

02:02:04.399 --> 02:02:08.238
testosterone one of the they do they use

02:02:06.238 --> 02:02:10.399
a carbon isotope test. I think I believe

02:02:08.238 --> 02:02:13.279
that's how they use to figure out where

02:02:10.399 --> 02:02:15.198
the testosterone came from. So if your

02:02:13.279 --> 02:02:17.118
testosterone is like at a very high

02:02:15.198 --> 02:02:19.839
level, they test all your other ratios.

02:02:17.118 --> 02:02:21.679
They go, "Well, no, it all seems likely.

02:02:19.840 --> 02:02:23.520
He's just he's an outlier. He just has

02:02:21.679 --> 02:02:26.399
naturally high testosterone." But

02:02:23.520 --> 02:02:28.560
testosterone that you get from like

02:02:26.399 --> 02:02:30.399
synthetic testosterone is derived from a

02:02:28.560 --> 02:02:32.080
wild yam,

02:02:30.399 --> 02:02:34.559
>> believe it or not. Yes. Yeah. It's not

02:02:32.079 --> 02:02:36.719
It's not animal derived testosterone. So

02:02:34.560 --> 02:02:38.400
the composite of it varies when they run

02:02:36.719 --> 02:02:39.840
the tests on it and they can determine

02:02:38.399 --> 02:02:40.158
>> they can determine that it's a yam based

02:02:39.840 --> 02:02:41.920
testosterone

02:02:40.158 --> 02:02:43.594
>> it's exogenous not indogenous

02:02:41.920 --> 02:02:43.599
>> yam they're fighting it's not heavy

02:02:43.594 --> 02:02:45.840
[laughter]

02:02:43.599 --> 02:02:47.679
>> but if they could figure out a way to ex

02:02:45.840 --> 02:02:48.719
and there's a lot of proof of concept of

02:02:47.679 --> 02:02:50.719
this can they figure out a way to

02:02:48.719 --> 02:02:51.760
extract testosterone from animal sources

02:02:50.719 --> 02:02:53.840
>> bold testosterone

02:02:51.760 --> 02:02:56.159
>> something like that well toine that's

02:02:53.840 --> 02:02:57.679
they used to inject Hitler with torine

02:02:56.158 --> 02:02:59.920
>> you know Hitler was like a

02:02:57.679 --> 02:03:01.440
guinea pig for this one doctor who tried

02:02:59.920 --> 02:03:03.039
a bunch of on him and one of the

02:03:01.439 --> 02:03:04.638
things they did was like inject him with

02:03:03.039 --> 02:03:06.479
bull testicles and stuff. They try to

02:03:04.639 --> 02:03:09.199
keep him viral.

02:03:06.479 --> 02:03:11.279
Yeah. But but there probably are

02:03:09.198 --> 02:03:13.359
athletes right now that are using some

02:03:11.279 --> 02:03:15.439
that they haven't figured out yet.

02:03:13.359 --> 02:03:16.639
So to give them any loopholes at all,

02:03:15.439 --> 02:03:20.479
they're like, "No, no, no

02:03:16.639 --> 02:03:21.279
loopholes. No IVs, no nothing. I

02:03:20.479 --> 02:03:22.879
vitamins and

02:03:21.279 --> 02:03:26.079
>> Right." But the problem with IVs is you

02:03:22.880 --> 02:03:28.880
can mask testosterone and and and mask

02:03:26.079 --> 02:03:32.000
steroids by overflooding the body with

02:03:28.880 --> 02:03:32.159
liquids. So if you overflow so then when

02:03:32.000 --> 02:03:33.920
you

02:03:32.158 --> 02:03:36.879
>> So the ratio is high because like you

02:03:33.920 --> 02:03:39.520
add more water it's you would just fill

02:03:36.880 --> 02:03:41.840
them up with saline and then when they

02:03:39.520 --> 02:03:43.040
go to piss like nope clean look at the

02:03:41.840 --> 02:03:44.880
ratio it's

02:03:43.039 --> 02:03:46.479
>> cuz it's like so much water is being

02:03:44.880 --> 02:03:47.440
processed through the body that it

02:03:46.479 --> 02:03:48.799
doesn't have time to show the

02:03:47.439 --> 02:03:50.638
testosterone. So there's a way to mask

02:03:48.800 --> 02:03:53.840
it especially with like things that you

02:03:50.639 --> 02:03:56.560
would add to the IV. Um, so there's no

02:03:53.840 --> 02:03:58.800
you can't do it's only food and approved

02:03:56.560 --> 02:04:00.800
supplements through like really high

02:03:58.800 --> 02:04:02.079
level labs like Thor, like Thorn

02:04:00.800 --> 02:04:03.119
supplements where it's third party

02:04:02.079 --> 02:04:04.639
tested.

02:04:03.118 --> 02:04:07.279
>> So they don't they can't do anything.

02:04:04.639 --> 02:04:09.520
But for a while they let him do it and

02:04:07.279 --> 02:04:11.279
uh those TRT VOR days are my favorite

02:04:09.520 --> 02:04:13.280
fights to watch. [laughter]

02:04:11.279 --> 02:04:14.639
>> Did they stop doing fighting because

02:04:13.279 --> 02:04:16.158
they thought it was like advantaging

02:04:14.639 --> 02:04:17.520
certain people or they happened

02:04:16.158 --> 02:04:17.679
that they're like this is up or

02:04:17.520 --> 02:04:19.040
was

02:04:17.679 --> 02:04:20.800
>> Well, they look look at the difference.

02:04:19.039 --> 02:04:22.000
That's TRT Vtor on the left and that's

02:04:20.800 --> 02:04:23.039
him on the right when they made him get

02:04:22.000 --> 02:04:24.000
off of it.

02:04:23.039 --> 02:04:24.479
>> Look at the difference.

02:04:24.000 --> 02:04:26.079
>> Jesus.

02:04:24.479 --> 02:04:28.799
>> I mean, that's stunning. On the

02:04:26.079 --> 02:04:31.198
left though, dude, that was

02:04:28.800 --> 02:04:33.039
terrifying. When Luke Rockol fought him,

02:04:31.198 --> 02:04:34.559
he told me, he goes, "Dude, when I stood

02:04:33.039 --> 02:04:36.319
next to him at the weigh-ins, he

02:04:34.560 --> 02:04:37.920
had muscles on his teeth."

02:04:36.319 --> 02:04:39.279
>> He goes, "This dude was so

02:04:37.920 --> 02:04:41.520
jacked. He was so scared." I was like,

02:04:39.279 --> 02:04:43.679
"What the is he on?"

02:04:41.520 --> 02:04:46.239
>> He goes, "He knew he was on something."

02:04:43.679 --> 02:04:48.960
It's just It's cheating. It really is

02:04:46.238 --> 02:04:51.118
because you can jack your levels way

02:04:48.960 --> 02:04:52.800
above a normal human beings because

02:04:51.118 --> 02:04:55.198
that's what a lot of guys there was a

02:04:52.800 --> 02:04:57.440
few fighters that were pulled from cards

02:04:55.198 --> 02:05:00.960
because like say if a really high levels

02:04:57.439 --> 02:05:02.559
like 1100 they were testing like 18900

02:05:00.960 --> 02:05:03.599
they were like people that have never

02:05:02.560 --> 02:05:05.199
lived before

02:05:03.599 --> 02:05:06.480
>> they were like a science project.

02:05:05.198 --> 02:05:10.399
>> They had different species

02:05:06.479 --> 02:05:11.759
>> and they were most insane confidence cuz

02:05:10.399 --> 02:05:13.920
they were essentially like a raging

02:05:11.760 --> 02:05:16.480
gorilla. They were just insanely

02:05:13.920 --> 02:05:17.840
confident and just it's just so fired up

02:05:16.479 --> 02:05:19.598
like they couldn't wait to smash

02:05:17.840 --> 02:05:21.920
somebody because they were just

02:05:19.599 --> 02:05:24.319
maniacal. They're a berserker, you know?

02:05:21.920 --> 02:05:26.399
So you it's not a person anymore. Now

02:05:24.319 --> 02:05:28.559
now you're a science project. It's not,

02:05:26.399 --> 02:05:30.079
you know, there are rare outliers who

02:05:28.560 --> 02:05:31.920
like Tyson when he was in his prime.

02:05:30.079 --> 02:05:34.079
It's rare physical specimens and like

02:05:31.920 --> 02:05:36.239
that's part of the game, but that's God,

02:05:34.079 --> 02:05:38.800
you know, that's nature. This is not,

02:05:36.238 --> 02:05:40.238
you know, Balco Labs. And so they won't

02:05:38.800 --> 02:05:42.239
allow him to do anything anymore. And

02:05:40.238 --> 02:05:43.759
that's why it's cuz too many and VTOR

02:05:42.238 --> 02:05:46.319
was one of the guys that tested like way

02:05:43.760 --> 02:05:48.320
over the line and then they just decided

02:05:46.319 --> 02:05:49.279
>> like but that's what they're going to

02:05:48.319 --> 02:05:50.479
do. If you say

02:05:49.279 --> 02:05:52.639
>> if you say it's legal, they're just

02:05:50.479 --> 02:05:53.439
going to take as much as good more is

02:05:52.639 --> 02:05:55.440
better. And you know

02:05:53.439 --> 02:05:56.960
>> Yeah. If you say you did one cc a week,

02:05:55.439 --> 02:05:58.799
they're like I heard five. I heard five

02:05:56.960 --> 02:06:00.639
cc's. And these guys are just training

02:05:58.800 --> 02:06:03.039
five times a day and they never get

02:06:00.639 --> 02:06:04.480
tired and they recover like that. So and

02:06:03.039 --> 02:06:06.238
they they never have to worry about soft

02:06:04.479 --> 02:06:08.079
tissue injuries cuz they they heal like

02:06:06.238 --> 02:06:09.921
you're a six-year-old, you know?

02:06:08.079 --> 02:06:10.719
And you just your body just like

02:06:09.921 --> 02:06:12.718
[laughter]

02:06:10.719 --> 02:06:13.920
Wolverine.

02:06:12.719 --> 02:06:15.359
>> Oh yeah, man. Well, that's the thing

02:06:13.920 --> 02:06:18.239
about peptides, too. The Wolverine

02:06:15.359 --> 02:06:19.679
stack. BP157 and TB500. I don't know if

02:06:18.238 --> 02:06:22.479
you ever get injured. If you ever get

02:06:19.679 --> 02:06:23.440
injured, get immediately on BP157 and

02:06:22.479 --> 02:06:25.279
TB500.

02:06:23.439 --> 02:06:25.598
>> I didn't hear about TB500, which what's

02:06:25.279 --> 02:06:28.800
that one?

02:06:25.599 --> 02:06:31.840
>> Thyin Beta 500. It's in conjunction with

02:06:28.800 --> 02:06:33.760
BPC 157. It is a phenomenal

02:06:31.840 --> 02:06:34.480
stack and just really helps injuries.

02:06:33.760 --> 02:06:35.039
>> I didn't know they called it the

02:06:34.479 --> 02:06:36.078
Wolverine stack.

02:06:35.039 --> 02:06:37.920
>> That's what they call it, the Wolverine

02:06:36.078 --> 02:06:39.439
stack. Yeah, cuz you heal

02:06:37.920 --> 02:06:40.800
incredibly well. Like you like it

02:06:39.439 --> 02:06:42.000
quickly. I was talking to a pro football

02:06:40.800 --> 02:06:43.920
player pulled his hamstring. He's like,

02:06:42.000 --> 02:06:45.279
"Dude, I I shot that right into my

02:06:43.920 --> 02:06:47.118
hamstring for two weeks and I was right

02:06:45.279 --> 02:06:48.000
back on the field." I was like, "That's

02:06:47.118 --> 02:06:49.759
nuts."

02:06:48.000 --> 02:06:50.800
>> I go, "What is a normal rehab?" He goes,

02:06:49.760 --> 02:06:52.400
"Three months."

02:06:50.800 --> 02:06:53.920
>> He goes, "In two weeks I was back on the

02:06:52.399 --> 02:06:55.759
field." I go, "What the f?" He goes, "I

02:06:53.920 --> 02:06:57.760
don't know how bad the injury was." He

02:06:55.760 --> 02:06:59.760
goes, "But to me it's like I

02:06:57.760 --> 02:07:01.119
pulled my hamstring. I'm now for

02:06:59.760 --> 02:07:02.719
x amount of days." He goes, "In two

02:07:01.118 --> 02:07:03.039
weeks later, I was playing full tilt."

02:07:02.719 --> 02:07:04.960
>> Wow.

02:07:03.039 --> 02:07:06.319
>> I'm like, that's nuts. and going right

02:07:04.960 --> 02:07:08.078
into the area of the injury.

02:07:06.319 --> 02:07:09.519
>> Right into it. Some people think you

02:07:08.078 --> 02:07:10.960
don't have to do that. They think it's,

02:07:09.520 --> 02:07:12.880
you know, systemic. So, you just like

02:07:10.960 --> 02:07:14.480
stick it in your fat on your on your

02:07:12.880 --> 02:07:16.480
side. But he's like, "No." And most

02:07:14.479 --> 02:07:19.439
athletes will tell you the best benefit

02:07:16.479 --> 02:07:20.559
is local. Shoot it locally into the area

02:07:19.439 --> 02:07:22.559
and it just has

02:07:20.560 --> 02:07:23.920
>> like uh cortisone or whatever. Where is

02:07:22.560 --> 02:07:25.920
it? What is the

02:07:23.920 --> 02:07:26.960
>> cortisone? But cortisone just mass

02:07:25.920 --> 02:07:29.039
>> numbs it or whatever. Yeah.

02:07:26.960 --> 02:07:30.880
>> Not only that, it it has a tendency if

02:07:29.039 --> 02:07:31.519
you do it too many times to weaken

02:07:30.880 --> 02:07:32.078
tendons.

02:07:31.520 --> 02:07:33.360
>> Yeah.

02:07:32.078 --> 02:07:35.039
>> Yeah. And so it could actually

02:07:33.359 --> 02:07:35.759
exacerbate the problem because it takes

02:07:35.039 --> 02:07:36.479
away the pain.

02:07:35.760 --> 02:07:38.400
>> Measure, right?

02:07:36.479 --> 02:07:40.319
>> Yeah. It takes away the pain. But

02:07:38.399 --> 02:07:42.238
>> I mean, you know, then there's the

02:07:40.319 --> 02:07:43.279
enhanced games that are coming out in

02:07:42.238 --> 02:07:44.959
Vegas this year where they're like,

02:07:43.279 --> 02:07:46.319
>> I know my my friend had that idea a long

02:07:44.960 --> 02:07:48.319
time ago. He was like, you should just

02:07:46.319 --> 02:07:50.000
do the the the the drug Olympics for

02:07:48.319 --> 02:07:52.078
cash. He goes, "Do it in Vegas for

02:07:50.000 --> 02:07:54.078
cash." And then then the enhanced games

02:07:52.078 --> 02:07:55.359
came. I sent him a tell. I was like,

02:07:54.078 --> 02:07:56.158
"They're doing it." [snorts]

02:07:55.359 --> 02:07:57.039
>> The game

02:07:56.158 --> 02:07:59.118
>> and it's just like

02:07:57.039 --> 02:08:00.158
>> I'm down. I love Let's see what a human

02:07:59.118 --> 02:08:02.238
being can do.

02:08:00.158 --> 02:08:04.238
>> I That's what I think. I mean, look,

02:08:02.238 --> 02:08:05.759
when Barry Bonds and, you know, Sammy

02:08:04.238 --> 02:08:07.279
Sosa and those guys were cracking out

02:08:05.760 --> 02:08:10.000
home runs, it was one of the most

02:08:07.279 --> 02:08:11.279
exciting times in baseball.

02:08:10.000 --> 02:08:13.359
They didn't do anything. They knew it

02:08:11.279 --> 02:08:16.000
wasn't a mystery to anybody. But

02:08:13.359 --> 02:08:17.920
Avery's tuning in. The Bash Brothers

02:08:16.000 --> 02:08:19.599
baseball on a strike, you know? They

02:08:17.920 --> 02:08:22.078
almost destroyed that league and

02:08:19.599 --> 02:08:23.520
then people started watching home runs

02:08:22.078 --> 02:08:24.399
and everyone and then Bonds is like,

02:08:23.520 --> 02:08:26.320
"Well,

02:08:24.399 --> 02:08:27.920
>> these two guys are hitting this

02:08:26.319 --> 02:08:30.158
many home runs. I'm the best player in

02:08:27.920 --> 02:08:31.920
baseball." Which he was. And when he did

02:08:30.158 --> 02:08:33.759
it, it was lights out. Yeah. You know, I

02:08:31.920 --> 02:08:37.300
mean, he had a year where he only swung

02:08:33.760 --> 02:08:39.520
and missed 26 times. 162 games, three

02:08:37.300 --> 02:08:41.599
[laughter] and a half bats a game. Only

02:08:39.520 --> 02:08:42.800
swung and missed 20. I mean, that's

02:08:41.599 --> 02:08:44.800
just,

02:08:42.800 --> 02:08:47.039
>> you know, and yeah, Magguire get like

02:08:44.800 --> 02:08:48.159
just like move his wrist to get the ball

02:08:47.039 --> 02:08:49.760
out of the park and it was like, yeah,

02:08:48.158 --> 02:08:51.198
it was fun to watch. And when people say

02:08:49.760 --> 02:08:52.800
like steroids don't make you a better

02:08:51.198 --> 02:08:54.719
athlete, well, they don't maybe don't

02:08:52.800 --> 02:08:56.400
make you a better athlete, [laughter]

02:08:54.719 --> 02:08:58.399
>> but if you're a Barry, if

02:08:56.399 --> 02:09:01.039
>> you're already an elite athlete, yeah,

02:08:58.399 --> 02:09:03.359
it makes Let Jon Jones do all the juice

02:09:01.039 --> 02:09:05.198
he wants. He'd be fighting until he's 50

02:09:03.359 --> 02:09:07.039
and people up. And you say,

02:09:05.198 --> 02:09:08.399
"John, we we've we really come to our

02:09:07.039 --> 02:09:09.760
senses. Like, this sport's all about

02:09:08.399 --> 02:09:11.839
excitement. Want to give the people what

02:09:09.760 --> 02:09:13.599
they want. Give people let people make

02:09:11.840 --> 02:09:14.639
informed choices based on their own

02:09:13.599 --> 02:09:15.279
discretion."

02:09:14.639 --> 02:09:17.359
>> Oh, it's like,

02:09:15.279 --> 02:09:19.118
>> "Welcome back. Welcome [laughter] back."

02:09:17.359 --> 02:09:19.839
Then all a sudden, John looks like Vtor

02:09:19.118 --> 02:09:21.039
in that picture.

02:09:19.840 --> 02:09:22.880
>> He'd be undefeated.

02:09:21.039 --> 02:09:25.198
>> By the way, John beat Vtor when Vtor was

02:09:22.880 --> 02:09:27.840
in his prime. And Vtor caught Jon in a

02:09:25.198 --> 02:09:30.319
full arm bar, totally locked his arm

02:09:27.840 --> 02:09:32.239
out, hyperextended, popped it, went

02:09:30.319 --> 02:09:34.719
backwards. You can see the video of it.

02:09:32.238 --> 02:09:36.638
His elbow is going that way. He wouldn't

02:09:34.719 --> 02:09:37.439
tap and then beat him in the next round

02:09:36.639 --> 02:09:39.760
>> with one arm.

02:09:37.439 --> 02:09:42.319
>> Yep. One arm. His arm was

02:09:39.760 --> 02:09:43.520
for like a year after that.

02:09:42.319 --> 02:09:44.000
>> Yeah.

02:09:43.520 --> 02:09:45.419
>> Yeah.

02:09:44.000 --> 02:09:46.399
>> Give that man some steroids. Let's

02:09:45.418 --> 02:09:48.158
[laughter] see what he can do.

02:09:46.399 --> 02:09:49.039
>> Steroids. Let him be the king of the

02:09:48.158 --> 02:09:51.118
world.

02:09:49.039 --> 02:09:52.960
>> Yeah. The dream team. It's like remember

02:09:51.118 --> 02:09:55.039
the first time the the the pros went to

02:09:52.960 --> 02:09:57.039
the Olympics, whatever the years, won

02:09:55.039 --> 02:09:58.319
every game by 70 points. You know, it

02:09:57.039 --> 02:09:59.118
wasn't close, but it was a hell of a lot

02:09:58.319 --> 02:10:00.479
of fun.

02:09:59.118 --> 02:10:01.679
>> Well, the argument for that made sense

02:10:00.479 --> 02:10:03.039
though because like these other people

02:10:01.679 --> 02:10:03.679
are being compensated in their

02:10:03.039 --> 02:10:05.039
countries.

02:10:03.679 --> 02:10:06.719
>> Oh yeah, I had no problem. And then by

02:10:05.039 --> 02:10:08.319
the way, now it's got more that last

02:10:06.719 --> 02:10:10.158
Olympic championship was that was a

02:10:08.319 --> 02:10:11.840
great game against France. That was

02:10:10.158 --> 02:10:13.598
fabulous. You know, I mean, yeah, they

02:10:11.840 --> 02:10:15.440
they're they're going to wreck some

02:10:13.599 --> 02:10:16.800
smaller countries and stuff, but

02:10:15.439 --> 02:10:18.319
>> okay, that you're playing pros, they're

02:10:16.800 --> 02:10:20.400
playing pros. the whole definition of

02:10:18.319 --> 02:10:20.880
amateurism has gotten a little bit like

02:10:20.399 --> 02:10:23.839
you know

02:10:20.880 --> 02:10:25.440
>> yes it's it's it's people find like a

02:10:23.840 --> 02:10:26.639
convenient definition of it according to

02:10:25.439 --> 02:10:28.559
what's there like you see in college

02:10:26.639 --> 02:10:29.679
sports is changing and stuff like look I

02:10:28.560 --> 02:10:31.440
got no problem if you're going to apply

02:10:29.679 --> 02:10:32.800
the rules evenly but sometimes when it

02:10:31.439 --> 02:10:34.638
feels like it's just an excuse to like

02:10:32.800 --> 02:10:36.719
for the NCAA to make a billion dollars

02:10:34.639 --> 02:10:38.480
off the TV deal like no no you guys

02:10:36.719 --> 02:10:39.920
you're getting you're getting education

02:10:38.479 --> 02:10:41.759
>> it's like a little bit like yeah

02:10:39.920 --> 02:10:44.719
education you guys making a lot of money

02:10:41.760 --> 02:10:46.079
because people want to see Nebraska play

02:10:44.719 --> 02:10:47.359
>> it's exploitation

02:10:46.078 --> 02:10:48.960
>> yeah and I'm glad they've changed that

02:10:47.359 --> 02:10:50.479
with college sports because these guys

02:10:48.960 --> 02:10:52.078
are the reason why you're filling up the

02:10:50.479 --> 02:10:53.359
seats and they they deserve that money

02:10:52.078 --> 02:10:54.399
>> and not every one of them is going to be

02:10:53.359 --> 02:10:55.359
in the NFL, right?

02:10:54.399 --> 02:10:56.879
>> You know what I mean? Some of them

02:10:55.359 --> 02:10:58.639
that's their window to make that

02:10:56.880 --> 02:11:00.078
money. You know what I mean? Like it's

02:10:58.639 --> 02:11:02.319
hard in the NFL.

02:11:00.078 --> 02:11:02.960
>> And the risk of catastrophic injury is

02:11:02.319 --> 02:11:04.639
always there

02:11:02.960 --> 02:11:07.039
>> is constant constant. Yeah.

02:11:04.639 --> 02:11:08.719
>> And and and the the the metrics for it's

02:11:07.039 --> 02:11:11.279
like what is it a two two and a half

02:11:08.719 --> 02:11:13.279
year career or something

02:11:11.279 --> 02:11:14.319
>> depending on your position. But I mean

02:11:13.279 --> 02:11:16.078
it's it's such a

02:11:14.319 --> 02:11:17.599
>> that seems just fair and obvious. So you

02:11:16.078 --> 02:11:19.519
pay a kid to flip a cheeseburger out of

02:11:17.599 --> 02:11:20.000
college, but not to like, you know, come

02:11:19.520 --> 02:11:21.679
on.

02:11:20.000 --> 02:11:23.359
>> Well, that's the great thing about doing

02:11:21.679 --> 02:11:25.279
something where you're not relying on

02:11:23.359 --> 02:11:27.439
your body like acting.

02:11:25.279 --> 02:11:27.679
>> You can you can kind of do it forever,

02:11:27.439 --> 02:11:29.118
you know?

02:11:27.679 --> 02:11:30.960
>> Yeah. Keep going till you lose it, you

02:11:29.118 --> 02:11:32.799
know what I mean? It's really Yeah, it's

02:11:30.960 --> 02:11:35.118
great. And it's got its own competitive

02:11:32.800 --> 02:11:37.520
aspect and it's a lot, you know, but

02:11:35.118 --> 02:11:38.960
>> like, okay, great. If it's if you will

02:11:37.520 --> 02:11:41.040
bet on yourself and then the expectation

02:11:38.960 --> 02:11:42.399
is, well, I got to do something that's

02:11:41.039 --> 02:11:43.679
interesting enough that people want to

02:11:42.399 --> 02:11:45.920
watch it. Well, that's the proposition

02:11:43.679 --> 02:11:48.158
anyway. How do you guys decide like on

02:11:45.920 --> 02:11:50.000
projects that you you choose? Like I'm

02:11:48.158 --> 02:11:53.118
sure you have so many options now. Like

02:11:50.000 --> 02:11:54.319
what what makes you say this is what I'm

02:11:53.118 --> 02:11:54.719
going to spend the next six months

02:11:54.319 --> 02:11:56.238
doing?

02:11:54.719 --> 02:11:58.560
>> It's really I mean there are a bunch of

02:11:56.238 --> 02:12:01.279
different factors like like the director

02:11:58.560 --> 02:12:03.679
is being the most important one. But but

02:12:01.279 --> 02:12:05.279
if you read a script and and like we've

02:12:03.679 --> 02:12:08.000
read so many thousands and thousands of

02:12:05.279 --> 02:12:11.279
scripts and written so many scripts and

02:12:08.000 --> 02:12:13.359
worked on so many movies that that if if

02:12:11.279 --> 02:12:14.399
we read something and it and it it's

02:12:13.359 --> 02:12:17.198
that thing we were talking about

02:12:14.399 --> 02:12:19.359
earlier, you know, you get that get that

02:12:17.198 --> 02:12:21.598
kind of emotional something happens when

02:12:19.359 --> 02:12:23.198
you read it. you go, "Okay, well," then

02:12:21.599 --> 02:12:25.039
you then you pay attention to it, maybe

02:12:23.198 --> 02:12:26.638
read it again, go, "Wait a minute." You

02:12:25.039 --> 02:12:28.479
know, if it if it if it moves you in

02:12:26.639 --> 02:12:30.239
that in that way, then, you know,

02:12:28.479 --> 02:12:31.519
ultimately the big decision is saying

02:12:30.238 --> 02:12:33.279
yes because

02:12:31.520 --> 02:12:35.679
>> because you're going to spend

02:12:33.279 --> 02:12:36.880
>> Yeah. the last point over which you have

02:12:35.679 --> 02:12:37.920
>> total control, right?

02:12:36.880 --> 02:12:40.560
>> You know, and then you're in.

02:12:37.920 --> 02:12:42.078
>> Then you're in and and you're and you're

02:12:40.560 --> 02:12:44.960
in whether it's good or bad. I mean,

02:12:42.078 --> 02:12:47.118
I've been on those movies where I knew a

02:12:44.960 --> 02:12:49.599
month into a six-month shoot that like

02:12:47.118 --> 02:12:52.319
this is not going to work. [laughter]

02:12:49.599 --> 02:12:53.520
And that that is that is the

02:12:52.319 --> 02:12:56.078
>> it's just the worst.

02:12:53.520 --> 02:12:56.560
>> It is I I I came to think of that. It

02:12:56.078 --> 02:12:57.679
happened to me.

02:12:56.560 --> 02:12:58.159
>> They're going to shoot us all when it

02:12:57.679 --> 02:12:58.719
comes out.

02:12:58.158 --> 02:12:59.839
>> Yeah. Okay. [laughter]

02:12:58.719 --> 02:13:00.560
>> It's like it's all bad.

02:12:59.840 --> 02:13:02.319
>> Go to work. You know,

02:13:00.560 --> 02:13:05.599
>> it's like it's it's going to be it's

02:13:02.319 --> 02:13:08.399
going to be 80 16 hour days in a row and

02:13:05.599 --> 02:13:09.679
then uh a a post-production period

02:13:08.399 --> 02:13:10.719
that's going to be pretty fraught and

02:13:09.679 --> 02:13:11.920
then it's going to come out and we're

02:13:10.719 --> 02:13:12.880
going to get crushed

02:13:11.920 --> 02:13:14.800
>> and then you're going to have to sell

02:13:12.880 --> 02:13:17.599
it. You're going to have to walk the

02:13:14.800 --> 02:13:20.239
plank and sit down with access.

02:13:17.599 --> 02:13:23.360
>> You know what I mean? like so saw the

02:13:20.238 --> 02:13:25.678
movie. How important is that stuff still

02:13:23.359 --> 02:13:26.639
today? Like the press stuff, is that

02:13:25.679 --> 02:13:29.359
still important?

02:13:26.639 --> 02:13:30.719
>> It is. I don't know to what degree each

02:13:29.359 --> 02:13:31.759
specific thing is. I mean,

02:13:30.719 --> 02:13:33.039
>> it's kind of ironic because we were

02:13:31.760 --> 02:13:35.119
talking about coming on this show today

02:13:33.039 --> 02:13:37.679
and we were saying I was like doing this

02:13:35.118 --> 02:13:39.519
show more meaningful in than the rest of

02:13:37.679 --> 02:13:41.279
the we do in aggregate to promote

02:13:39.520 --> 02:13:43.040
this movie. Like we spent this whole

02:13:41.279 --> 02:13:44.078
week in New York doing, you know, I

02:13:43.039 --> 02:13:45.359
don't know how many interviews, you

02:13:44.078 --> 02:13:45.920
know, the the quick ones with all the

02:13:45.359 --> 02:13:48.000
outlet,

02:13:45.920 --> 02:13:50.158
>> five minute interviews, all the the the

02:13:48.000 --> 02:13:53.599
evening shows, the day shows,

02:13:50.158 --> 02:13:56.479
>> all that stuff and and this just given

02:13:53.599 --> 02:13:58.159
how many people listen to the show will

02:13:56.479 --> 02:14:00.078
be more meaningful. We think I mean

02:13:58.158 --> 02:14:02.078
that's our we were speculating but

02:14:00.078 --> 02:14:03.679
>> his historically right if you look at it

02:14:02.078 --> 02:14:06.479
that's it because they've changed to

02:14:03.679 --> 02:14:08.800
like all of it feels kind of produced

02:14:06.479 --> 02:14:10.238
and forced and advertised and and people

02:14:08.800 --> 02:14:11.440
have become resistant to anything that

02:14:10.238 --> 02:14:12.559
feels kind of like a gimmick and a

02:14:11.439 --> 02:14:13.759
shtick and you go on and you do your

02:14:12.560 --> 02:14:15.520
song and dance and they say the thing it

02:14:13.760 --> 02:14:17.199
looks great and you and nobody cares

02:14:15.520 --> 02:14:18.719
like they're looking to go either

02:14:17.198 --> 02:14:20.638
because somebody they know says it's

02:14:18.719 --> 02:14:22.800
interesting or somebody that they is

02:14:20.639 --> 02:14:24.560
trusted and a trusted person is in like

02:14:22.800 --> 02:14:26.639
your like you say your feed right and

02:14:24.560 --> 02:14:29.360
it's your friend or your your cousin or

02:14:26.639 --> 02:14:32.319
or they affix that to somebody which has

02:14:29.359 --> 02:14:34.479
become a more rare thing like who's a

02:14:32.319 --> 02:14:36.559
like a legitimate neutral arbiter,

02:14:34.479 --> 02:14:38.399
right? Who I can't predict what they're

02:14:36.560 --> 02:14:40.480
going to say before I go there. There

02:14:38.399 --> 02:14:42.960
are few of those fewer and fewer of

02:14:40.479 --> 02:14:45.519
those people in the world even those are

02:14:42.960 --> 02:14:48.399
proliferation of more and more voices

02:14:45.520 --> 02:14:50.400
and I it's kind of paradoxical like the

02:14:48.399 --> 02:14:51.759
form of entertainment is getting shorter

02:14:50.399 --> 02:14:53.439
and shorter and shorter. So you're like

02:14:51.760 --> 02:14:55.199
a 7-second, you know, we had an

02:14:53.439 --> 02:14:56.879
advertising company. We we do most of

02:14:55.198 --> 02:14:59.118
the spots that we release like 15-second

02:14:56.880 --> 02:15:01.039
spots, six-second spots for social, the

02:14:59.118 --> 02:15:04.719
ones most people see. And then there's

02:15:01.039 --> 02:15:07.279
this one form, which is like long form

02:15:04.719 --> 02:15:10.239
discussions that are whatever two hours

02:15:07.279 --> 02:15:11.679
long. And the amazing to me is, you

02:15:10.238 --> 02:15:12.959
know, in a world where it seems like you

02:15:11.679 --> 02:15:15.039
can't get people to pay attention for

02:15:12.960 --> 02:15:16.639
more than, you know, a few seconds,

02:15:15.039 --> 02:15:18.560
there's a kind of a hunger for that. So

02:15:16.639 --> 02:15:19.840
there's like this form and that's why

02:15:18.560 --> 02:15:22.000
you see these are getting more popular.

02:15:19.840 --> 02:15:23.920
obviously have this massive audience and

02:15:22.000 --> 02:15:26.639
it's and it it's kind of flying in the

02:15:23.920 --> 02:15:29.440
face of the whole other trend and I

02:15:26.639 --> 02:15:31.679
think and I don't know that it probably

02:15:29.439 --> 02:15:33.439
has something to do with like who do I

02:15:31.679 --> 02:15:36.719
think is authentic and am I actually

02:15:33.439 --> 02:15:38.399
going to willing to extend my two hours

02:15:36.719 --> 02:15:40.319
of my time to sit there and listen

02:15:38.399 --> 02:15:42.399
through and and that an argument that

02:15:40.319 --> 02:15:44.399
people probably do appreciate and

02:15:42.399 --> 02:15:46.559
understand conversations that have

02:15:44.399 --> 02:15:48.399
context and nuance and where there's

02:15:46.560 --> 02:15:50.639
like a back and forth. They're just much

02:15:48.399 --> 02:15:52.719
more selective about who they're willing

02:15:50.639 --> 02:15:55.118
to kind of

02:15:52.719 --> 02:15:55.599
give that sort of voice to in their

02:15:55.118 --> 02:15:57.279
life.

02:15:55.599 --> 02:15:58.800
>> It's also the voice of the public, too,

02:15:57.279 --> 02:16:01.118
because when people start talking about

02:15:58.800 --> 02:16:03.279
things online and things go viral online

02:16:01.118 --> 02:16:05.039
and people just start like saying how

02:16:03.279 --> 02:16:07.039
great they love the film or how great

02:16:05.039 --> 02:16:09.279
this album is or something like that, it

02:16:07.039 --> 02:16:10.960
just takes off organically now.

02:16:09.279 --> 02:16:12.880
>> Yeah. And that has more more weight than

02:16:10.960 --> 02:16:15.520
anything. If you feel like somebody else

02:16:12.880 --> 02:16:16.480
who obviously has no dog in the fight is

02:16:15.520 --> 02:16:18.000
going, "Hey, this is great. You should

02:16:16.479 --> 02:16:20.078
see I'm the same thing. If I hear

02:16:18.000 --> 02:16:21.840
somebody tell me like, you know, who I

02:16:20.078 --> 02:16:23.439
respect, hey, you got to see that thing,

02:16:21.840 --> 02:16:25.279
that means more to me than anything,

02:16:23.439 --> 02:16:27.198
right? Because I believe that. And so if

02:16:25.279 --> 02:16:29.920
the closer you can get to that, which is

02:16:27.198 --> 02:16:32.558
why that I think the act of a like

02:16:29.920 --> 02:16:34.079
telling the same, you know, like telling

02:16:32.558 --> 02:16:36.398
the same like story about you should go

02:16:34.079 --> 02:16:38.718
see the movie to a bunch of people with

02:16:36.398 --> 02:16:40.879
a certain like limited reach, it's just

02:16:38.718 --> 02:16:42.159
it's just not that efficient. But you

02:16:40.879 --> 02:16:44.879
have to because it's like well we sat

02:16:42.159 --> 02:16:46.558
down with our own Trisha Zanaka and

02:16:44.879 --> 02:16:48.959
talked about the mo you know and you

02:16:46.558 --> 02:16:50.799
kind of do that ostensibly because it

02:16:48.959 --> 02:16:53.438
means a little bit more in that in that

02:16:50.799 --> 02:16:55.358
market. But I think ultimately it's it's

02:16:53.439 --> 02:16:57.519
like more and more people see realize

02:16:55.359 --> 02:16:59.439
they're being sold to see through the

02:16:57.519 --> 02:17:01.359
act and the sort of of

02:16:59.439 --> 02:17:03.040
it. They recognize that you know you go

02:17:01.359 --> 02:17:04.399
out and sell every movie. You know what

02:17:03.040 --> 02:17:06.080
I mean? The good and the bad. And then

02:17:04.398 --> 02:17:07.920
we got to decide well which one and and

02:17:06.079 --> 02:17:09.439
who can you count on? Well, it's mostly

02:17:07.920 --> 02:17:11.200
going to be that like the word of mouth,

02:17:09.439 --> 02:17:13.200
your friend, and and now you can see

02:17:11.200 --> 02:17:13.840
that person in your media experience,

02:17:13.200 --> 02:17:17.359
you know.

02:17:13.840 --> 02:17:19.120
>> Yeah. And I think it's also we know that

02:17:17.359 --> 02:17:21.280
when you're sitting down with extra or

02:17:19.120 --> 02:17:22.479
these like that's just their job to sit

02:17:21.280 --> 02:17:23.920
down with people, they're not doing it

02:17:22.478 --> 02:17:26.159
because they want to, right?

02:17:23.920 --> 02:17:27.679
>> You know, it's like they got told go

02:17:26.159 --> 02:17:30.318
talk to that person.

02:17:27.679 --> 02:17:32.318
>> And we got told go talk to them. So, we

02:17:30.318 --> 02:17:34.558
go do the ritual and they say the thing

02:17:32.318 --> 02:17:36.159
they say and we say the thing we say

02:17:34.558 --> 02:17:36.718
>> and everyone goes home and says we did

02:17:36.159 --> 02:17:38.000
our job.

02:17:36.718 --> 02:17:40.718
>> That's the benefit of an independent

02:17:38.000 --> 02:17:42.000
podcast is that like like with me I

02:17:40.718 --> 02:17:42.919
don't talk to anybody I don't want to

02:17:42.000 --> 02:17:44.638
talk to. It's just like I

02:17:42.920 --> 02:17:46.318
[clears throat] I I literally do the

02:17:44.638 --> 02:17:48.000
whole thing on my phone. I go oh yeah

02:17:46.318 --> 02:17:50.318
that sounds cool and that's it.

02:17:48.000 --> 02:17:51.920
>> But like that I think means a lot at

02:17:50.318 --> 02:17:53.679
least this person is making this choice

02:17:51.920 --> 02:17:55.280
and I've listened to it a bunch and I I

02:17:53.679 --> 02:17:56.398
actually find myself agreeing with it a

02:17:55.280 --> 02:17:58.639
lot of the time. I'm so hard right I'll

02:17:56.398 --> 02:17:58.959
give it a shot that you know it's

02:17:58.638 --> 02:18:01.119
exactly

02:17:58.959 --> 02:18:03.759
>> I think also like this format like at

02:18:01.120 --> 02:18:06.880
least I know why it why I started

02:18:03.760 --> 02:18:09.519
listening to podcasts was because uh in

02:18:06.879 --> 02:18:10.959
in the world like the the divisive kind

02:18:09.519 --> 02:18:12.559
the way everybody was talking these

02:18:10.959 --> 02:18:15.199
sound bites and all this and and

02:18:12.558 --> 02:18:19.279
and it was just like the ability to just

02:18:15.200 --> 02:18:21.040
listen to human beings talk often who

02:18:19.280 --> 02:18:23.439
who had different points of view but

02:18:21.040 --> 02:18:26.479
like had a civil conversation

02:18:23.439 --> 02:18:28.079
>> Yeah. was like was such a welcome thing,

02:18:26.478 --> 02:18:29.920
you know, given the given the kind of

02:18:28.079 --> 02:18:33.200
the hysterical

02:18:29.920 --> 02:18:35.920
kind of, you know, uh, frenzy of of of

02:18:33.200 --> 02:18:37.599
of divisiveness that's kind of it just

02:18:35.920 --> 02:18:40.000
feels it's just like,

02:18:37.599 --> 02:18:42.639
>> you know, the it's like I if I open my

02:18:40.000 --> 02:18:44.398
phone and look at the news, I like

02:18:42.638 --> 02:18:46.959
>> It's like, put it down. It's just it's

02:18:44.398 --> 02:18:49.279
it's like uh I feel my cortisol level go

02:18:46.959 --> 02:18:50.879
up. and to actually hear people be

02:18:49.280 --> 02:18:52.960
listen to people I know I don't agree

02:18:50.879 --> 02:18:55.039
with but listen to them and just and

02:18:52.959 --> 02:18:56.718
just think about it. You know what I

02:18:55.040 --> 02:18:58.000
mean? I mean approach life with a little

02:18:56.718 --> 02:18:59.839
bit of humility.

02:18:58.000 --> 02:19:03.120
>> Not hold on to what you believe

02:18:59.840 --> 02:19:04.318
obviously but but but keep listening.

02:19:03.120 --> 02:19:06.639
>> It's also there's not a lot of

02:19:04.318 --> 02:19:08.638
opportunities in the real world to have

02:19:06.638 --> 02:19:10.079
long conversations with people. So

02:19:08.638 --> 02:19:11.759
people are kind of starving for that.

02:19:10.079 --> 02:19:13.920
>> I know. Isn't it funny that this has

02:19:11.760 --> 02:19:16.318
become the shared cultural like we

02:19:13.920 --> 02:19:18.318
listen to that podcast and then actually

02:19:16.318 --> 02:19:19.840
experience that because and also people

02:19:18.318 --> 02:19:21.279
why don't people trust the media? Well,

02:19:19.840 --> 02:19:22.880
because the media doesn't do that

02:19:21.280 --> 02:19:25.200
because they compress it and because the

02:19:22.879 --> 02:19:26.239
truth it's money because actually doing

02:19:25.200 --> 02:19:29.120
that is not with money. it's just

02:19:26.239 --> 02:19:31.359
ratings and the perceived idea that like

02:19:29.120 --> 02:19:32.719
well if you simplify it or you you

02:19:31.359 --> 02:19:36.000
position it one way or that you engender

02:19:32.718 --> 02:19:38.398
outrage um that's simple or just you

02:19:36.000 --> 02:19:41.679
know pure one-sided ideas that are that

02:19:38.398 --> 02:19:44.159
are simple um you know but the news used

02:19:41.679 --> 02:19:45.599
to be the idea was look here's the FCC

02:19:44.159 --> 02:19:47.200
we're going to let these networks

02:19:45.599 --> 02:19:48.799
broadcast their shows and make money on

02:19:47.200 --> 02:19:51.040
it but here's the deal you got to give

02:19:48.799 --> 02:19:52.719
an hour of that and lose money on that

02:19:51.040 --> 02:19:54.960
hour to tell the news and try to tell it

02:19:52.719 --> 02:19:56.239
objectively then it started to be no you

02:19:54.959 --> 02:19:57.599
got to make money for for that hour too.

02:19:56.239 --> 02:20:00.318
And if you're going to make money,

02:19:57.600 --> 02:20:02.159
that's a different incentive than tell

02:20:00.318 --> 02:20:04.719
the truth or reports or any of those

02:20:02.159 --> 02:20:06.159
things. And people try to hybridize

02:20:04.719 --> 02:20:08.639
them, but at the end of the day, you're

02:20:06.159 --> 02:20:10.719
a more successful reporter if more

02:20:08.639 --> 02:20:12.398
people watch you because advertisers pay

02:20:10.719 --> 02:20:14.000
more and then they're doing the same

02:20:12.398 --> 02:20:15.358
thing, looking at their data, you know,

02:20:14.000 --> 02:20:18.079
grand what are people watching, what

02:20:15.359 --> 02:20:19.920
kinds of stories and and I I think this

02:20:18.079 --> 02:20:21.439
is simple answers because you're just

02:20:19.920 --> 02:20:23.840
you're making it into a profit game.

02:20:21.439 --> 02:20:25.600
those incentives are not aligned with

02:20:23.840 --> 02:20:28.159
>> just trying to get down to like even

02:20:25.600 --> 02:20:30.000
reporting basic facts.

02:20:28.159 --> 02:20:31.520
>> Yeah. It's a weird time. It's like we

02:20:30.000 --> 02:20:33.280
have more access to information than

02:20:31.520 --> 02:20:33.920
ever before, but so much of it is just

02:20:33.280 --> 02:20:34.479
horseshit.

02:20:33.920 --> 02:20:37.359
>> Yeah.

02:20:34.478 --> 02:20:38.318
>> You know, it's it's hard to stay

02:20:37.359 --> 02:20:40.000
balanced. Yeah.

02:20:38.318 --> 02:20:42.000
>> And I think that's why it's good to like

02:20:40.000 --> 02:20:43.760
listen to people just talk

02:20:42.000 --> 02:20:46.799
>> and and then you recognize like the

02:20:43.760 --> 02:20:50.159
flaws in their thinking. You feel ego.

02:20:46.799 --> 02:20:51.119
You feel deception. You know,

02:20:50.159 --> 02:20:52.398
>> it's true. people will reveal

02:20:51.120 --> 02:20:53.280
themselves. Like you actually we

02:20:52.398 --> 02:20:55.599
actually don't need that many

02:20:53.280 --> 02:20:57.680
editorialists to be constantly telling

02:20:55.600 --> 02:20:58.880
us what to think and how to think.

02:20:57.680 --> 02:21:00.398
People actually have pretty good

02:20:58.879 --> 02:21:01.759
instincts. You know, if someone's

02:21:00.398 --> 02:21:03.119
bullshitting you eventually, they'll

02:21:01.760 --> 02:21:05.439
kind of hang themselves. Like you said,

02:21:03.120 --> 02:21:06.960
you'll get that vibe. Uh after a while,

02:21:05.439 --> 02:21:08.960
he kind of started repeating his

02:21:06.959 --> 02:21:10.959
sticktick and I kind of he didn't really

02:21:08.959 --> 02:21:12.719
talk about what I was wondering about.

02:21:10.959 --> 02:21:13.679
And you form your own that's like

02:21:12.719 --> 02:21:15.279
forming your own judgment.

02:21:13.680 --> 02:21:17.840
>> Pete Buddhajed actually talked about

02:21:15.280 --> 02:21:20.000
that being dangerous on podcasts. He's

02:21:17.840 --> 02:21:22.159
like, "Because you you go on there and

02:21:20.000 --> 02:21:24.398
you have your points, but you'll get

02:21:22.159 --> 02:21:26.159
revealed over the course of a few

02:21:24.398 --> 02:21:27.119
hours." Like, you can only stick to

02:21:26.159 --> 02:21:28.559
these lines.

02:21:27.120 --> 02:21:30.000
>> Yeah. You get talking points and

02:21:28.559 --> 02:21:31.600
for and then

02:21:30.000 --> 02:21:33.200
>> and then what happens is people just

02:21:31.600 --> 02:21:34.800
like there was an art to like look at

02:21:33.200 --> 02:21:37.120
how great the communicator they stick to

02:21:34.799 --> 02:21:39.599
the message and they do their points. We

02:21:37.120 --> 02:21:41.040
Okay, 30 seconds, 60 seconds. But any

02:21:39.600 --> 02:21:43.280
longer than that, it just starts to look

02:21:41.040 --> 02:21:45.200
like a robot on, you know, and

02:21:43.280 --> 02:21:47.600
like I said, what we need to follow

02:21:45.200 --> 02:21:49.040
through with, you know, I saw you do the

02:21:47.600 --> 02:21:50.479
same hand gesture and the same bit with

02:21:49.040 --> 02:21:51.680
that, but you know,

02:21:50.478 --> 02:21:52.959
>> sometimes you find out they're full of

02:21:51.680 --> 02:21:54.239
just by having them talk about

02:21:52.959 --> 02:21:55.679
other things.

02:21:54.239 --> 02:21:57.920
>> You know, like tell me, do you like

02:21:55.680 --> 02:22:00.398
cooking? You know, like just like and

02:21:57.920 --> 02:22:01.760
then you just see like some concocted

02:22:00.398 --> 02:22:04.000
>> they're thinking what makes me look good

02:22:01.760 --> 02:22:06.888
if about cooking that I should

02:22:04.000 --> 02:22:07.520
>> Well, I tell you what, because Americans

02:22:06.888 --> 02:22:08.640
[laughter]

02:22:07.520 --> 02:22:10.800
exactly it like

02:22:08.639 --> 02:22:12.719
>> do I cook or do I not? What what would I

02:22:10.799 --> 02:22:14.398
>> Does that make me feminine or does it

02:22:12.719 --> 02:22:14.719
make me open to cultural? You It's just

02:22:14.398 --> 02:22:15.439
like,

02:22:14.719 --> 02:22:17.358
>> yeah,

02:22:15.439 --> 02:22:18.318
>> what do you like to cook, man? I don't

02:22:17.359 --> 02:22:19.600
cook. You know,

02:22:18.318 --> 02:22:21.600
>> well, that's the other thing about

02:22:19.600 --> 02:22:23.760
people that are online too much is

02:22:21.600 --> 02:22:25.840
they're so concerned with other people's

02:22:23.760 --> 02:22:28.239
opinions that they don't have enough

02:22:25.840 --> 02:22:29.920
time to formulate their own.

02:22:28.239 --> 02:22:31.039
>> They're just so concerned with how

02:22:29.920 --> 02:22:32.960
people are going to perceive everything

02:22:31.040 --> 02:22:35.600
you say that you're like handcuffed.

02:22:32.959 --> 02:22:36.879
You're like terrified to misspeak.

02:22:35.600 --> 02:22:38.479
>> Right. Right.

02:22:36.879 --> 02:22:39.759
>> I think that in general is a real

02:22:38.478 --> 02:22:40.799
danger. I mean, you we were

02:22:39.760 --> 02:22:43.200
talking the other day, we were saying

02:22:40.799 --> 02:22:45.759
about like one of the ver benefits of

02:22:43.200 --> 02:22:46.880
getting older and and doing this for a

02:22:45.760 --> 02:22:48.800
long time is

02:22:46.879 --> 02:22:50.559
>> you realize like nobody really gives a

02:22:48.799 --> 02:22:51.920
as much about you as you thought.

02:22:50.559 --> 02:22:52.799
You know, you just kind of nobody gives

02:22:51.920 --> 02:22:54.639
a Nobody remembers. You

02:22:52.799 --> 02:22:56.079
>> spend your 20s and 30s thinking like

02:22:54.639 --> 02:22:57.358
this is really important and then you

02:22:56.079 --> 02:22:58.959
realize no one come [laughter]

02:22:57.359 --> 02:23:00.318
off and what's going to be no one

02:22:58.959 --> 02:23:01.438
actually cares. It's not that big a

02:23:00.318 --> 02:23:02.719
deal. Nobody

02:23:01.439 --> 02:23:04.559
>> most people are mostly worrying about

02:23:02.719 --> 02:23:06.318
themselves in their life and they Yeah.

02:23:04.559 --> 02:23:08.079
There's this illusion that they pay a

02:23:06.318 --> 02:23:10.318
passing moment of attention or it's in

02:23:08.079 --> 02:23:12.000
some story or it's like you're

02:23:10.318 --> 02:23:13.519
staring at it because it's about you,

02:23:12.000 --> 02:23:15.439
right? You know, you know that you said

02:23:13.520 --> 02:23:15.760
that about me. Nobody else really

02:23:15.760 --> 02:23:18.639
>> Nobody cares.

02:23:16.719 --> 02:23:20.000
>> And if they do, they're usually

02:23:18.639 --> 02:23:22.318
up. Like something's wrong. Why

02:23:20.000 --> 02:23:23.439
concentrate on this other person's life?

02:23:22.318 --> 02:23:24.719
>> You're probably trying to ignore your

02:23:23.439 --> 02:23:25.600
own right?

02:23:24.719 --> 02:23:27.199
>> Yeah.

02:23:25.600 --> 02:23:29.760
>> Well, listen, man. Your movie is

02:23:27.200 --> 02:23:31.600
awesome. Uh I've loved so much of your

02:23:29.760 --> 02:23:32.880
your films over the years, so it's been

02:23:31.600 --> 02:23:34.318
really cool to be able to have you guys

02:23:32.879 --> 02:23:34.879
in here and talk about this. It's been

02:23:34.318 --> 02:23:35.680
great.

02:23:34.879 --> 02:23:38.588
>> Thanks for having us.

02:23:35.680 --> 02:23:39.760
>> Two very normal, nice movie stars.

02:23:38.588 --> 02:23:40.719
[laughter]

02:23:39.760 --> 02:23:41.840
>> You guys are cool as

02:23:40.719 --> 02:23:43.039
>> Give us a couple more hours.

02:23:41.840 --> 02:23:44.880
>> Yeah, exactly.

02:23:43.040 --> 02:23:46.720
>> I enjoyed it. And I really enjoyed the

02:23:44.879 --> 02:23:48.959
rip. It's great. And uh

02:23:46.719 --> 02:23:50.478
everybody go see it. It's great. I loved

02:23:48.959 --> 02:23:51.199
it. Thank you. Thanks for being here.

02:23:50.478 --> 02:23:54.438
All right. Pleasure.

02:23:51.200 --> 02:23:54.439
>> Bye, everybody.

02:23:59.549 --> 02:24:01.568
[music]